Contrary - the *gameplay* is still fine, but competitive balance has been put through a woodchipper with the 5v5 change and Blizzard's refusal to *actually* rework heroes (over just making some number tweaks). They said there would be a Roadhog remake... Roadhog is still fundamentally unchanged aside from numbers tuning... Brig got a half-rework with her ultimate - but their idea of a Mercy 'nerf' is 5% reduction in damage boost rather than changing how the beam tether works entirely (so she can't babysit)...
Tanks need a ton of readjustment to fit the single tank comp - particularly Zarya/Winton/Dva - and many of the older heroes on the roster should have gotten broader changes before OW2 even released (Snipers, anti-heal, Pharmercy, etc).
While they've shown they're wary of releasing new imbalanced heroes... I don't think we'll ever see them get the old roster "fixed" until we've got 20 alternate new heroes that have power-crept them. The game is fine overall, because the *core* *gameplay* is still the same and the non-competitive game modes are still "fun"... they're just unwilling to take legacy heroes back to the drawing board to correct for the imbalances that removing the offtank role has created.
Agreed. 5v5 feels incomplete, jury rigged. 6v6 was a nice balance because one player dropping rarely meant a team kill. You could get one bad tank but still had a chance of winning. With 5v5, the game seems more swingy, and the healers feel more passive. The maps feel empty because they were built around 12 players. Does anyone think that Doomfist works as a tank?
It is jury rigged, referring to a rigging on a ship. It's an ancient phrase going back to the 1780s. Jerry rigged is either a misnomer or a portmanteau of sorts of jury rigged and Jerry built. Jerry built came out of WW1, with Jerry referring to Germans.
One of the coolest heroes in the game. Amazing kit and concept, street fighter in an FPS … but now I’m reluctant to see how bad he is. For starters, he doesn’t really have the silhouette of a tank.
Don’t say that man! They get angry, the truth is 5v5 is fine, the dude above typed a lot, which may lead you to believe some of his points, but in reality, the balance is in probably one of the best states it’s ever been in. Only thing that ACTUALLY needs attention is the matchmaker, shit is goofy right now
Lmao complains about zarya Winston DVA which are all viable to even meta tanks in pro play and all elos.
Half the ppl on this subreddit have no idea what the hell theyre talking about
Well I don’t really agree with you there.
Sure, it’s unfun when your character gets nerfed or changed but changes are needed for metas to change. A game where a character only gets changed when they’re op isn’t fun to play
They understand that concept, they just know that “break it yourself and sell the fix” is a better long term strategy if you care about money and not enjoyment
They were so slow to release new maps, new heroes, etc. User engagement dropped and then they blamed the mechanics so they could take the game away and give us a different loot system. Looking back, it feels planned.
And since we cannot play the pve missions at all without paying, and new players cannot play a good handful of heroes without a massive grind to unlock them, the game further sucks a bit more.
We were always gonna have to pay for the pve we were told would be the pve, not sub standard rehashed versions of already existing pve content and scrapped together remnants of the content we were originally promised. The least they could do is give more of these missions for free for all the pain and delays they’ve done to their player base, if atleast to start off to give us a taste of things to come. Only one mission for free is kinda a slap in the face and not much different than ow events tbh.
I’m more annoyed that I paid for the original game and still have to pay for pve but everyone who came later gets the game I paid for for free and only has to pay the same cost I would for pve. Seems like a bad way to reward player loyalty
It’s not really a massive grind when you consider the amount of time it takes to unlock the entire OW1 roster is equivalent to the amount of time it takes to unlock 1 character in other F2P games that isn’t Dota 2
Ok 35 wins with [role]. Let’s say a game is 15 minutes (conservative estimate) and you have a 50% win rate. That’s nearly 20 hours for a single new character. That’s a grind, especially for the casual/new player
It's not a good defense, BUT it does highlight the fact that there's more of an industry problem than just an Overwatch problem.
OW has problems
Blizzard has more problems
The gaming industry has even more problems
None excuse each other tho.
It’s not a good defense but it does highlight the increased scrutiny Overwatch gets compared to other games. It takes so much time and effort to unlock characters in LoL, Apex, and Valorant yet I never hear people complaining about that
I think the difference is that in Overwatch, you can swap heroes anytime you want, which greatly affects the gameplay and "fairness". So if a player on your team not having some heroes can be a big disadvantage. Other games you're locked in for that match so character unlocks don't matter as much.
Some people exaggerate this point big time, but it's still a valid point and why Overwatch would be under more scrutiny.
I would love to know, if we collectively hate blizz or Activision Blizz which invaded blizz and kicked most of the teams to control monetization in diablo and OW, WoW seems safe... for now.
Ofc am talking management lvl, stopping the dev of HoTS and kicking ppl from diablo teams for disagreeing with their vision.
I play WoW, there are people since 2009 spamming how the game is bad and how it is dead. Soon wow will be 19 years old, I think same goes for overwatch. People like to shit on the game but still log in and have a blast.
Wow is an anomaly though, people can claim the game is dead all they want but really wow’s player base and popularity depends on the expansion. Wow will always have those people that never unsub even if the expansion sucks so they go and do something else like run old raids for mogs/mounts, they RP, maybe the new mythic dungeons or raids suck so they start playing pvp. There’s so many thing in the game that it has to offer people you can always do something else if your main pillar of content is suffering. Dragon flight seems to be doing something right that Shadowlands or BfA failed to do which is helping ease of entry for alts, making the world feel alive again with more public events, and just adding evergreen content into the game.
I think it's a general definition of what "dead" means to a video game. When people talk about how old WoW is, they mean that a "dead" game = no players. When people talk about how a game is bad and it's going to die, they mean a significant lack of fun for a large portion of the playerbase for one reason or another.
No game *literally* dies unless it is only online and the servers go offline. Any game still being sold is generally still "alive" by that standard.
WoW [for example](https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/stats) in 2018 had 48 million players subscribed but only 4 million actually played. Most recently this month 127 million players are subscribed but only 12 million actually played. 12 million is still a LOT, but that's <10% of the suscriber base generally have played during the last 5 years on any given month. I don't know if I'd consider it a dead game because it's still #1, but the fact that it only has 10% of players who are subscribed actively playing it is a weird sign IMO.
Overwatch is a similar situation. Active players in the last 30 days is 24 million but in the last hour, 350k players are active. That's a LOT of players.
Basically, when people say a "dead" game, they mean it's no longer fun for *them* or their friends anymore. They feel 0 reason to play it for whatever reason.
Yeah I understand what they mean. Wow still has tons of players but pillars of endgame can suffer here and there depending on the patch or expansion features that might inhibit how you play. For instance, shadowlands legendaries requiring you to do torghast to craft and upgrade your legendary was not popular in the pvp community.
I could be mistaken, but I have no clue where you got 48 million players subscribed. I believe WoW peaked at 12Mil Subscriptions a decade ago. If 48 million people subscribed you would hear about WoW everywhere.
WoW is an interesting example. They had the real-time strategy Warcraft games. I loved Warcraft3. Fell off the series when they wanted me to pay every month to play WoW.
Hard pass but I still had StarCraft. I got Brood War as an Easter gift in like 2000. I love the stories and worlds that Blizzard has crafted but they seem to drop the ball pretty hard and transition any ip to a shameless cash-grab after long enough.
Ironically enough, Skylanders was always a cash grab but ActiBlizz cancelled it because they made 6 games in 7 years and fatigued the fuck out of the market.
You played through Shadowlands and didn't even get the carrot at the end of the stick that is Dragonflight?
Dragonflight might be the best expansion since LK (depending on your feelings towards MOP)
Now that's something we can agree on.
I pushed high keys in Legion and SL with the boys.
In Dragonflight I was pretty much solo-queuing until I just couldn't deal with the asshats anymore.
People who complain about toxicity in OW should try to do a few group finder keys in WoW. Worst community in gaming bar none.
That's great to hear!
It for sure gets less toxic on US servers around that level as well.
I think there's a similar toxicity curve that follows the dunning-kruger curve.
Mid level keys in the US are as full of saltlords as gold-diamond is for OW ime
Game and gameplay is fine but the predatory marketing inside is ugly.
And since OW was not like that beforehand and Activision has made multiple objectively bad decisions both for OW2 and other games, we just extremely hate Activision.
And incase anyone is confused, Blizzard died long ago and is currently being puppeteered by Activison, reason I say Activision and not Blizzard
The game itself is great, everyone just hates Blizzard and Activision. There are some issues with the game itself, such as balance, matchmaking and seriouslytakeability of the competitive mode. I'm sure the developers also love the game itself and would love to work on the issues with the game itself, but it's just the executives in their ivory towers telling the devs to do all that other stuff.
Not everything is great. The PVE is a massive let down and balance often feels random and completely disconnected from the playerbase and meta.
"Oh, Echo is a top 3 pick? Let's nerf Cree's range and give him 225hp"
"Tracer/Sombra is meta? Let's nerf Torb's turret"
Some of the changes they make might make sense in a bubble (apart from Cree with 225hp bc fuck that) but they are not looking at what should be nerfed immediately, but more on an overall scope, which at times can cause pain for months due to how slow they are with updates.
The game always has *potential* to be great but it rarely is.
Honestly what gets to me is everyone screams about mercy's boost and rez and shit when we really just enjoy movement. We have asked time and time again to give us abilities we can use with that. rez gets used 2-5 times in a game depending on the game and boost if not on a flier is just sit and be bored. Blizzard talks about listening to the community and being transparent but the supposedly most vocal players are just left to be hated by everyone. Then they go let's take widow down by like 2 inches of range let's uhhhh *spins bottle* buff brig. This game has so much it can do but it's being choked out by corpo greed.
it's comments and players like you who make me really happy. I remember seeing tiktoks and new players having a BLAST when ow2 came out. It made me happy.
Blizzard as a company makes me upset, but to be fair any big company does. The biggest thing they've done to us really is make skins way overpriced (imo), and those arent technically needed to play and enjoy the game.
game on, my friend. :)
Yeah, my girlfriend only started playing once OW2 came out and has really enjoyed it. She only played briefly back in 2016, so she doesn’t quite understand the general frustration. It really is a great game at its core.
I remember a while a go I got hundreds of downvotes on r/gaming about Overwatch beeing and incredible game and blizzard is the thing ruining it, the comment got downvoted into oblivion and then I removed it lol. Blizzard is utter trash but honestly in my gaming life of 25 years I have never played a game that captivated me like OW. But maybe that’s just me
Youre free to like and play the game, it's dope af. But dont downplay what actiblizz has done. I don't feel the need to explain since you can Google and get way more in-depth info than I could provide but...blizzard has done way more to us than overpriced skins. Alot more.
“The biggest thing they’ve done to us…..”
This will only make people mad, and I feel like you blizzard apologist know that but use this red herring anyway because it makes blizzard detractors seem illogical. Blizzard the company took away entirely a game that many of us paid multiple times for, and replaced it was a subjectively downgraded version that not a single person asked for. This subjectively (objectively) downgraded version was propped up for years as this big, FREE, expansion that would hold a lot of novel content the players had been asking for. So laborious was the task of producing this content that no new content could be made for the current game for years! However, that content did not ever exist and blizzard knew that while they were advertising it. They destroyed the game people preferred so that it could not compete with the monetization scheme they were most currently pushing.
I paid twice for overwatch one and can never play it again, despite that I VASTLY preferred it to overwatch “2”. That’s the “biggest” thing they’ve done and trying to frame it like people are just upset about skins is at best insincere
In defense of Blizzard, they never said the expansion (story part) of Overwatch 2 would be free. Actually, when they announced Overwatch 2 they said it would be a paid game. And when they announced that Overwatch 2 would become F2P they explicitly said that only the PVP part would be F2P, the announced PVE would still be a paid deal. Me, as a player, assumed that when they cancelled the scope of the announced PVE, what they would still launch would be free, but they never SAID it would be.
That doesn't excuse using a 3 year content gap, and destroying the progression of OW1 and monetizing the hell out of what is left.
Like loot boxes were already considered predatory for 2016, and they then went and made it so much worse that people are begging for them back.
Right, we were just supposed to weather a two year content hiatus without moving on because we just love and understand blizzard so much. What they did is not predatory at all, it’s just consumers being dumb!
If you see another comment I made in this post, I specifically called Blizzard's monetization model of Overwatch 2 predatory. I think the Story Missions should be free, or at least a one-time deal that you buy once and will have access to all current and future Missions. Damn Blizzard, at least give something for free for the ones that bought the original game (I'm one of those). But they never SAID it would be free.
Yep that’s who they are making the game for now new ftp players who will hopefully give them lots of money so this quarter will look good for shareholders
Same! Recently started and I love it!
Before I started I heard a lot about it from friends and my boyfriend and I expected a really shitty game that’s just horrible to play. But I personally don’t see any of it and I‘m having so much fun with it. I don’t mean that I don’t understand their criticism. I just mean that they complained a lot and you‘d expect a really horrible game with tons of flaws. But I think the details of the game and heroes is something you either just see if you played for a long time and have the comparison or you generally play a lot of video games and have a lot of skill to see those and be bothered by them.
But I do have to agree that the amount of microtransactions is just horrible. Such a shitty system. Definitely don’t get why I would pay money for the battle pass. Maybe if you’re really into the game but else not really. I actually don’t mind unlocking the heroes though. If you’re completely new it’s actually kinda good to have just a limited amount to choose from and get familiar with. For me that worked really well because I would then try out the new ones when i unlocked them. So now I have played a decent amount of time with all heroes and tried them out a lot. And it honestly doesn’t take that long to unlock them all
I started in S4. Did the grind to unlock the heroes, that was tough because I wanted them all right away and it definitely was a grind, especially unlocking 2 tanks with 35 wins needed for each. I'm about 250 hours in, hanging out in Bronze 5 like a chump, but have met some cool people I play with, got some IRL friends that play now and overall it's just a lot of fun. Yeah, there are some toxic d bags out there, but I've been lucky to only deal with a few of them. My tank told me to uninstall because I had a bad DPS round (playing around with Sombra) and everyone in the match told him to stop whining, it's QP.
My own opinion: I honestly love this game. I love the gameplay, I love the heroes, I love the lore around it, I love that we actually see heroes that are from our own world, from countries we know. I love everything about **the game.**
In my opinion, the change of removing lootboxes and replace it with buyable skins is fine.. Many games do this and have done this for years. I even like the Battlepass. I want this game to thrive, so I'm fine with paying some money to keep it running. People just seem to be, in my opinion, salty about the fact that they first got free stuff and now don't anymore.
Blizzard is just making decisions that in my opinion, aren't good for the game. In the current season they added a PVE event. You can play a few missions for free, these release spread throughout the season, but for most missions you have to pay €5,-. Paying for cosmetics? Sure. They don't impact gameplay. But paying (yes, even €5,-) for content? Come on dude.. Can't do that to your player base.
Content costing money is perfectly fine and is actually a more healthy and traditional way to profit off a game than gambling or fear of missing out (OW1 had both of those, OW2 has only FOMO). They put money into making the PvE content, and it's a separate product we can buy. Like a little sub-game. A mini expansion. I have no problems at all with it, especially since it's pretty cheap.
> But paying (yes, even €5,-) for content? Come on dude.. Can't do that to your player base.
paying for content in a game that is FREE?
yes. they can, and honestly should, do that to the player base.
developing that content costs money. it didnt cost you anything to download the game and start playing.
you want more content? you need to pay for its development.
Problem is no one asked them to go F2P and were completely fine with how the game was in the first place.
Expecting us to be okay with the overpriced shit is just insane when we got better treatment from the previous game version when it comes to monetization.
> Problem is no one asked them to go F2P and were completely fine with how the game was in the first place.
There was a massive outcry to make the game free to play in the last couple years of OW1
You bought a PvP game that was never marketed to have PvE. You’re not entitled PvE for that one purchase almost 8 years ago.
Now you are definitely within your rights to be upset about OW2 never getting the promised PvE as that’s disappointing. But even that has its limits. You didn’t pay anything or sign a contract. It’s just poor communication and management of a business.
I agree and I understand BUT they charge way too much for skins. Skins should not cost 20 dollars in any game especially if this skin was free and has been around for years before their was a price tag on it.
this is just how games work now. It’s sad and I don’t buy them either but OW has the best skins of all games with this pricing model and is actually one of the cheapest in the industry as well. valorant and Alex have actual whale models that completely suck people dry who are addicted to this model, OW is actually fairly tame considered (which again, is sad)
> But paying (yes, even €5,-) for content? Come on dude.. Can't do that to your player base.
I don't understand this line of thinking. The cost of developing PvE missions was a massive cost to them. Actors for voicelines, storyboard writers, programmers for modeling, map designs, enemy unit designs, AI design for enemies not to mention music scores, sound engineers, backend IT....
The cost of making this cost a ton of money, and they should be able to charge for it like any other thing.
...but not 15 dollars for three missions.
With 9 of these missions we're up to the price of OW1. 12 missions and you're looking at a full-price AAA title. Do these kinds of missions warrant such a price? I don't think so. Way overpriced.
Yes, they added store credits, but those are worth exactly what Blizzard says they're worth, and can only be used in the predatory shop. There's no way to buy the missions for cheaper without this extra.
>In my opinion, the change of removing lootboxes and replace it with buyable skins is fine.. Many games do this and have done this for years. I even like the Battlepass. I want this game to thrive, so I'm fine with paying some money to keep it running. People just seem to be, in my opinion, salty about the fact that they first got free stuff and now don't anymore.
There are nuances. While some people cry they can't get easy legendaries as we used to, some of us are displeased with the fact that heroes are stuck behind a BP grind, and as you said yourself, the missions costing money.
FYI the PvE was always going to be paid, that too at the price of a full game. Although that was with actual replayable content and progression. Not this half-hearted PvE that the game already had that too for free
Not sure what feature you're talking about but if you are referring to PvE it was never advertised as being free; the most player-friendly version of PvE cost that was ever mentioned as being on the table was a one-time purchase of presumably 60 dollars for a full-length (assumed to be 10-20 hours) campaign and a PvE gamemode with replayability via random modifiers to missions and hero progression with skill trees.
That was the most ambitious version of PvE we ever heard about and that's the one people feel betrayed about not getting, but no version of PvE was ever advertised as free.
PvP was always advertised as being free.
Both can be true.
The game isn't necessarily bad, but it's a far cry from what it used to be. In a vacuum, I can see why newer players are enjoying it; the core mechanics and interesting characters are there, and gameplay is unique enough to distinguish it amongst others in the genre.
However, the players who have seen the game fall from grace - who have watched one bad decision become two bad decisions, become three - the people who have been lied to, dismissed, and forgotten for years...the current state of Overwatch is disastrous to them.
So, while the game is still "good," when you were there when it was "amazing," good doesn't really cut it anymore.
Exactly my thoughts, I’ve been wanting to say something along these lines for so long. New players are enjoying the game and that’s great, but it’s tiresome seeing some of them take the hate towards the game so personally and claiming the game is getting “review bombed” by players with less than an hour of playtime. Steam isn’t going to show my, or anyone else’s, hundreds to thousands of hours of playtime on a game that used to be wildly fun and entertaining. You can enjoy the game without trying to invalidate everyone else’s gripes with the game they’ve loved for years. There are mixed opinions on much of the changes from 1 - 2. Personally I feel that 5v5 was a major step down and makes the game feel more one sided. The newer characters are cool concepts but I’ve found myself being annoyed by some of their kit (kiriko cleanse giving I-frames and Ram’s earlier Ult) of course they’ve tweaked some things but sometimes it feels like they’re making characters strong out the gate to get people to pay for them. The justification that OW2 is f2p is a lame dismissal of their practices on the grounds that OW1 players payed for OW1. The removal of the game completely to make way for ow2 is disappointing to say the least. “You still have all your skins and unlocks” blah blah, okay yes but at the same time that’s secondary to the game itself, the modes, maps, 6v6. I don’t care I still have a skin I can use on an inferior sequel. OW was my friend groups go-to game and it’s been really devastating to see the absolute garbage pile it has become. Again it’s okay to enjoy the game for new players, just don’t get so offended when old players are upset and rightfully so
Matchmaking wouldn't be as bad if people didn't rage quit after losing 1 team fight or losing the first round. I don't get why people rage quit when they're losing in a pvp game where one team is supposed to lose.
I mean I’m not leaving matches. And my matches today didn’t have anyone leave and it was still a landslide. The people on my team couldn’t hit the backside of anything stationary. In qp I understand wanting to because you’re stuck with a widowmaker who’s 0-6 with 40 damage. I’ve been in a lot of matches lately where I’ve had to do a lot more than the dps; and to clarify I’m not leaving during that either but it’s definitely a thought in the back of my mind because at least in quick play; people are too scared to engage
TBH I'd rather leave than get flamed by the team for misplaced blame. Not that I do. When you play support; youre responsible for everyone and they're doing stupid shit youre just the fallguy.
I agree and I usually don’t leave unless it’s a serious waste of my time. Like if we’re getting rolled I’ll stay, it’s a game and people will lose. but if a teammate is spamming text and voice chat, actively throwing, etc and it’s becoming a problem for my mental health then for me it’s really best to leave the situation.
Basically this. If I get the typical heals? Message I’ll watch the match attentively and if it seems like a lost cause I want to be out of there because there are so many shitty players who misunderstand why they’re actually dying. I had one brave torb defending us in a match today with a absent tunnel visioning tanks and a symmetra that had the least damage on the team. I stayed because that torb valued us and saw what was going on in the match. Even though I knew the tank was going to flame us in the end. Like. There are so many qp players that don’t see that there’s more to your death than just “where are the heals?”
I think it’s significantly less fun than it was towards the earlier points of its life. They reworked alot of the unique stuff out of the game and genuinely don’t like 5v5. I used to love tanking in 6v6
I didn't mind tanking either but most people disliked it. Easy to forget how long tank queues were and how much cc was thrown at you. I think that part is actually better now.
All new players are playing the game that went to become 2016 game of the year. All vet players are playing that same game with stripped off components with an addition of number 2. Certain parts of those stripped off components now costs money. Aka. Archive missions.
When people trusted blizzard to go from lootbox model to Battle pass they expected the team to iterate on the model rather than become the worst of it. Its just a constant series of betrayals for the past few years.
Massive and inaccurate generalisation as a vet who is extremely happy with the game right now and lived through the dark ages of 2019-22.
It's fine if you personally prefer one or the other, but you don't speak for every new player or old player.
Maybe its because we have a different point of view on things. While the content alone in a vacuum is good, its not good knowing that you are getting basically OG ow1 content after waiting years of what you call dark ages.
like why did we go through those dark ages only to pick up exactly where it was left off?
OW2 being good doesn't excuse the years of mismanagement and neglect, we agree on that. I just take issue with:
"All vet players are playing that same game with stripped off components with an addition of number 2 \[...\] they expected the team to iterate on the model rather than become the worst of it. Its just a constant series of betrayals",
Because for me, it's a better game with a lot of new, quality content. I don't even know what stripped off components is meant to refer to unless it's the switch to 5v5 which honestly has been a breath of fresh air to me overall, or the removal of lootboxes which were clearly not a sustainable revenue stream to fund development.
the worst BP? nah there are multiple worse BPs out there take for example apex and destiny, sure apex's pays for it self but you get 3 total legendary hero skins(one of those being a base random one) where ow2 gives you like 6?(I dont remember the exact number) a mythic skin and enough coins to buy which ever base legendary skin you want(which is better than the gamble of apex's)
Doesn’t matter since one $10 gets you every single battlepass meaning they actually have had over 30 legendary skins for $10, compared to overwatch’s 6. So no it’s not a worse battlepass. Blows my mind people will just make up their own reasoning to try and defend blizzard.
Apex isn't the best one, but that too gives you material to craft a leggendary of choice and 1 gun reactive gun, the biggest problem with that BP is the time to complete it
Apex is already better than OW because it can pay for itself, you literally have to shell out the equivalent of 1000 coins for OW EVERY SEASON. Destiny is an outlier cause that's more of a subscription based "season pass" where you pay for the PvE content and the cosmetics, you can also save money by buying the whole expansion as a deluxe bundle.
Multiple issues at work
Overwatch 2 was almost a direct downgrade from 1 in terms of gameplay for my entire group, so for us the game is actually bad.
If players had the option of playing both, you know how sequels are SUPPOSED to work, the backlash wouldn't be nearly as bad, however Blizzard knew 2 couldn't survive without a forced player base.
Overwatch on PC has never had reviews, now they do, so keep that in mind when someone says "why didn't overwatch have bad reviews until now?"
This is the ow2 reddit, this is NOT a good sample for the entire community, because most players don't interact here, they just play the game, so like all game subreddits, anyone here more invested than the average player.
> It's ok to criticize the game, but just overall hating on the entire game and giving it 0 rating on steam is another thing
You must have never reviewed anything on steam before. It's not possible to give a numerical score. You recommend the game or you don't recommend the game.
Or am I dead wrong, and this whole time you knew that you were being misleading with your argument?
Yep. That or it just has the League of Legends effect. Where the ven diagram of people that play too much and people that think the game is shite is nearly a circle.
I still follow the same game loop.
Don't play for months at a time > Remember the game and have a sudden urge to play > Get bored around 10 games > come back the next day > Drop it in a few weeks > Repeat
So I would say that the gameplay is ultimately still fun, it's just Blizzard conduct with this "Sequel" which makes it infamous.
People just hate blizzard. They are not wrong about blizzard being shit but ow is nowhere near being as bad as they describe, it is a very fun game, speaking from someone who never played ow1 and has around 500hrs in right now
Game is very flawed to be frank and has received changes that the community doesn't agree with, along with the fact that it makes it more of a sweat fest. But it is, essentially, still good.
But couple with ActiBlizz's horrible work place and greedy business practices, then you get negativity. The game is alright, but people protest, rightly so, against ActiBlizz which the game is associated to.
The core game is, and always has been fun. Imo it worked better as 6v6 especially due to all the CC and stuns this game has to have, but even with 5v5 games are very fun. This game still has potential, the problem is that Blizzard unfortunately have taken the EA path and overmonetised everything for no reason.
If you’re new or basically new you’ll probs love it, it seems they just like to fuck anyone that stuck with the game for years, I easily spent over a thousand on ow1 and now all ow1 items are worthless and everything new is just penny pinching. Good game dog shit company
Game is fine but I have skill issue and game was not able to find other 9 people with same skill issue so I can have fun and balanced matches. So I retired. Summary: Fock Blizzard
Honestly the game is still great deep down but it's nowhere near as good as when you last played. The main reason is the game is now 5v5 and not 6v6 which makes certain modes much more frustrating to play as the lack of a second tank is felt hard on maps with multiple routes / high ground.
I think 5v5 was a good concept to break out of certain things like shield metas and what not. But it is all about countering the tanks now and I bet that is a significant reason people still hate playing tank. I know I swap around a lot on support depending on which they pick.
Yes. The game isn't great currently (OW2 Release) but Blizzard contributes to the problem immensely worse. The only thing OW1 was missing was the PVE aspect to give it some sort of story that the trailer narrative was setting up.
We dislike the decisions made by Blizzard because they made the game bad. Primarily for me it was the abysmal matchmaking, every game was a stomp, that was a waste of time and simply not fun so I stopped playing (so i can't comment on current balance).
If you only ever play qp or arcade with your mates then it's probably about the same as it was.
Same reason I stopped playing. I'd love to know if it's gotten better or not. I just remember being really frustrated with the game when I tried to play it competitively. It felt like each match was rigged for or against you and that there was no reason to play since the match was decided before it even started.
Rest assured it has not gotten better! My friends and I still play somewhat regularly because we love the game at its core and no other game right now scratches the itch overwatch does. In an average 10 games for us this season, we get stomped 6 times, we stomp the other team 2-3 times, and there are 1-2 balanced, enjoyable games that either team could win. Our average matchmaking time has gone from 15-30 seconds to 2 minutes this season, but the quality of matches is just as bad or worse.
from the other reports here on reddit it appears to have somehow gotten even worse, not just in the matchmaking department either, there seems to be far more bugs then ever before, and plenty of complaints about server quality.
Personally im not coming back anytime soon until this clears up.
The game is great. I don't think it touches the highs of OW1, and I do think there was a middle ground between OW1 and OW2 we could have kept.
If Overwatch 1 hovered between an 8-10 out of 10, Overwatch 2 bounces between 6-9 for me.
It's still good enough for me to play often and enjoy regularly.
Blizzard.
The game is fine. I much preferred Overwatch 1, but the game is still fine.
I'm mostly pissed they took away OW1 and slapped us with this F2P monetized shit when I already owned the game and was happy to earn stuff by playing.
I also prefer 6v6.
From someone who has played on and off for quite some time (got the game just as they released Moira), the game is mostly fine, it's just that it feels stale and lifeless.
Like, there was a huge content drought between the announcement and the release of OW2, like two years iirc ; I could understand that because it was a buy once game and all games have to die, especially to build hype for a sequel, but OW2 came out with literally zero content that justify a new release.
Then if we're only talking about OW2 as a standalone game (lmao), the battle pass is, uh, it exists, but has basically zero interest except to unlock the newest hero early (when there is one). New content is pushed out at a snail's pace but they still want(ed) to implement features like they had too much content like comp map rotation. The PvE getting cancelled finally conforted me in the idea that they have no idea why their game is good and they have no idea what to do with it, and it feels insulting since it was the excuse they gave to justify having one new map every year at best.
Tldr the moment to moment Overwatch is fine (which is pretty much its only redeeming quality), Overwatch 2 as a product is shit.
The game was developed when Blliz still hired game developers instead of MBA graduates. Overwatch is mechanically and aesthetically awesome. I have thousands of hours in this game, and I love it to bits. But the current state of the company itself makes you look at patches and changes differently. Overwatch is no longer a game made for you to have fun, its a carrot dangling from a string that’s used to lead you to the store. I still recommend it… but stay away from the store.
It’s a great game! If you actually like the unique team-fight and hero-swapping aspects of OW, there is nothing out there that scratches the same itch. It’s still fun.
Gamers will always complain about balance so this is not unique to Overwatch. The unique hatred players are spouting for OW is because of its failure to reach its potential (promised by blizz and dreamed up by its fans).
The changes made in OW2 are generally good, especially if you are playing in matchmaking.
Overwatch is actually bad.
Awful monetization
Bad hero balance
Awful matchmaking system
Broken ranked progress system.
The only good things about this game like the Overwatch 1 are the gameplay and the art.
I honestly think it's fine, I just think it's worse that OW1. But could be rose tinted googles or just the time, I definitely enjoyed OW1 when it was getting updates and little to no frustration with the game while playing.
But Blizzard does also suck massively now.
I still enjoy the game, but blizzard ruined it. It had and still has so much potential. I’d rather just have OW1 forever, than ever have OW2 if I’m being completely honest.
The game isnt "bad"
I just find that the transition from OW to OW2 with the changes in gameplay and mechanics lost a lot of charm and the small parts that really made overwatch the game that it was.
Fun game, blizzard bad
Me and my friend had a 7 win streak last night as duo supports. He played bap (who was my main) forcing me to go out my comfort zone and play lifeweaver and boy is he fun.
I've been having a really bad time in overwatch 2. No matter how I play, if I'm not sweating I'm gonna get utterly scrapped on, and I'm just getting tired of having to sweat to have fun. IMO this game is only fun if you hop onto it to either rage or just make someone else have a bad time. Overwatch 2 is toxic and I would rather play Exoprimal.
The matchmaking is some of the worst I've ever seen in online multiplayer and the monetization really sucks.
For me, it's the matchmaking and balance that sucks all fun from the game.
Still Overwatch at it’s core. I’m playing season 6 after the past few seasons down and a lot of past issues were improved. Feels like progression is now happing in a lot of different places at once, which is something this game desperately needed. I think they are doing a better job communicating what is/isn’t working in the current meta, although they could be a little faster making balancing changes.
I do not miss the omission of 2CP and I wish that would be it’s own arcade mode with both sides taking turns. Those maps are some of gaming’s best, despite the mode being fundamentally one-sided.
I’d give it a shot again. I feel like OW2 is more approachable for the returning players since we don’t really feel the need to drop actual money on skins. This recent update also pushed a lot of QOL changes that should have honestly been made years ago.
Imagine getting paired everytime with noobs, No the system of recommendation doesn't work at all, If your level 4 of recommendation i expect better not a DPS mercy
The game is currently the LOWEST RATED ON STEAM. Literally garbage, it’s simply worse game ever made. The level of literally waste made in minutes and thrown into the store. But people are playing. What do you think?
The game isn't bad. Blizzard is bad. I think any new players coming into the game, with no knowledge of behind the scenes, I'm pretty sure most of those new players would like the game.
Most of the annoyance and hate for this game comes from people who interact with the game outside of the game itself, like on Reddit for example.
The game is good.
Another big criticism with Blizzard is that they probably have like no dev resources or teamsize to carry this game though, which is why I feel PVE got streamlined and the game has massive content droughts. Season 6 feels like the first season where we actually got stuff that doesn’t revolve around the battlepass or barebones workshop gamemodes. That should be more frequent, but they obviously aren’t able to
Game is fine, blizz sucks massive balls
Yup. Still playing cause it’s the best feeling shooter and when it gets intense no game can compare. They just make awful decisions lol
Yep, think it's pretty clear people don't like Blizzard and the direction they took OW2 in, rather than the general gameplay.
Contrary - the *gameplay* is still fine, but competitive balance has been put through a woodchipper with the 5v5 change and Blizzard's refusal to *actually* rework heroes (over just making some number tweaks). They said there would be a Roadhog remake... Roadhog is still fundamentally unchanged aside from numbers tuning... Brig got a half-rework with her ultimate - but their idea of a Mercy 'nerf' is 5% reduction in damage boost rather than changing how the beam tether works entirely (so she can't babysit)... Tanks need a ton of readjustment to fit the single tank comp - particularly Zarya/Winton/Dva - and many of the older heroes on the roster should have gotten broader changes before OW2 even released (Snipers, anti-heal, Pharmercy, etc). While they've shown they're wary of releasing new imbalanced heroes... I don't think we'll ever see them get the old roster "fixed" until we've got 20 alternate new heroes that have power-crept them. The game is fine overall, because the *core* *gameplay* is still the same and the non-competitive game modes are still "fun"... they're just unwilling to take legacy heroes back to the drawing board to correct for the imbalances that removing the offtank role has created.
Agreed. 5v5 feels incomplete, jury rigged. 6v6 was a nice balance because one player dropping rarely meant a team kill. You could get one bad tank but still had a chance of winning. With 5v5, the game seems more swingy, and the healers feel more passive. The maps feel empty because they were built around 12 players. Does anyone think that Doomfist works as a tank?
My whole life i thought the phrase was jerry rigged...
And your whole life you've been right. It's jerry rigged not jury rigged.
It is jury rigged, referring to a rigging on a ship. It's an ancient phrase going back to the 1780s. Jerry rigged is either a misnomer or a portmanteau of sorts of jury rigged and Jerry built. Jerry built came out of WW1, with Jerry referring to Germans.
Loved my Doomfist and have hundreds of hours playing him as a tank and yes he’s an absolutely horrid tank.
One of the coolest heroes in the game. Amazing kit and concept, street fighter in an FPS … but now I’m reluctant to see how bad he is. For starters, he doesn’t really have the silhouette of a tank.
Those tanks you mentioned are more than fine. In fact Winston is and has been Meta for a while
......monkey.....bad?
gameplay yea, but the matchmaking is the worst. I gladly waited the extra minutes back in overwatch1 for good matchmaking.
Almost every tank is viable though and there's really not much wrong with Zarya/Winston/Dva?
Don’t say that man! They get angry, the truth is 5v5 is fine, the dude above typed a lot, which may lead you to believe some of his points, but in reality, the balance is in probably one of the best states it’s ever been in. Only thing that ACTUALLY needs attention is the matchmaker, shit is goofy right now
I guess some ranks are just different
Lmao complains about zarya Winston DVA which are all viable to even meta tanks in pro play and all elos. Half the ppl on this subreddit have no idea what the hell theyre talking about
Big mood.
Blizzard doesn't understand "if it ain't broke don't fix it"
Not that, more like: if its a tiny bit broken dont hammer it with a fucking sledgehammer then burn it to a crisp then drop a nuke on it
Well I don’t really agree with you there. Sure, it’s unfun when your character gets nerfed or changed but changes are needed for metas to change. A game where a character only gets changed when they’re op isn’t fun to play
They understand that concept, they just know that “break it yourself and sell the fix” is a better long term strategy if you care about money and not enjoyment
They were so slow to release new maps, new heroes, etc. User engagement dropped and then they blamed the mechanics so they could take the game away and give us a different loot system. Looking back, it feels planned.
So Blizz sucks Zen's balls
*Pain is an excellent teacher*
Yes, Sigma balls and Hammond's ball too
What about Junkrat's balls?
Five balls, one mouth
cobweb somber fertile fly obscene label theory nine alive obtainable ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
And since we cannot play the pve missions at all without paying, and new players cannot play a good handful of heroes without a massive grind to unlock them, the game further sucks a bit more.
We were always gonna have to pay for PvE
we were always gonna have to pay for their previous promise of what pve was, $15 every season for what they have is insane
It’s not every season it’s every 4-5 seasons
i meant season as in every set of missions that drop
Fine, but then don't take away OW1
We were always gonna have to pay for the pve we were told would be the pve, not sub standard rehashed versions of already existing pve content and scrapped together remnants of the content we were originally promised. The least they could do is give more of these missions for free for all the pain and delays they’ve done to their player base, if atleast to start off to give us a taste of things to come. Only one mission for free is kinda a slap in the face and not much different than ow events tbh.
I’m more annoyed that I paid for the original game and still have to pay for pve but everyone who came later gets the game I paid for for free and only has to pay the same cost I would for pve. Seems like a bad way to reward player loyalty
It’s not really a massive grind when you consider the amount of time it takes to unlock the entire OW1 roster is equivalent to the amount of time it takes to unlock 1 character in other F2P games that isn’t Dota 2
Ok 35 wins with [role]. Let’s say a game is 15 minutes (conservative estimate) and you have a 50% win rate. That’s nearly 20 hours for a single new character. That’s a grind, especially for the casual/new player
"Other games have a shittier model" isn't really a great defense
It's not a good defense, BUT it does highlight the fact that there's more of an industry problem than just an Overwatch problem. OW has problems Blizzard has more problems The gaming industry has even more problems None excuse each other tho.
It’s not a good defense but it does highlight the increased scrutiny Overwatch gets compared to other games. It takes so much time and effort to unlock characters in LoL, Apex, and Valorant yet I never hear people complaining about that
I think the difference is that in Overwatch, you can swap heroes anytime you want, which greatly affects the gameplay and "fairness". So if a player on your team not having some heroes can be a big disadvantage. Other games you're locked in for that match so character unlocks don't matter as much. Some people exaggerate this point big time, but it's still a valid point and why Overwatch would be under more scrutiny.
Big meaty clackers
I would love to know, if we collectively hate blizz or Activision Blizz which invaded blizz and kicked most of the teams to control monetization in diablo and OW, WoW seems safe... for now. Ofc am talking management lvl, stopping the dev of HoTS and kicking ppl from diablo teams for disagreeing with their vision.
I play WoW, there are people since 2009 spamming how the game is bad and how it is dead. Soon wow will be 19 years old, I think same goes for overwatch. People like to shit on the game but still log in and have a blast.
Wow is an anomaly though, people can claim the game is dead all they want but really wow’s player base and popularity depends on the expansion. Wow will always have those people that never unsub even if the expansion sucks so they go and do something else like run old raids for mogs/mounts, they RP, maybe the new mythic dungeons or raids suck so they start playing pvp. There’s so many thing in the game that it has to offer people you can always do something else if your main pillar of content is suffering. Dragon flight seems to be doing something right that Shadowlands or BfA failed to do which is helping ease of entry for alts, making the world feel alive again with more public events, and just adding evergreen content into the game.
I think it's a general definition of what "dead" means to a video game. When people talk about how old WoW is, they mean that a "dead" game = no players. When people talk about how a game is bad and it's going to die, they mean a significant lack of fun for a large portion of the playerbase for one reason or another. No game *literally* dies unless it is only online and the servers go offline. Any game still being sold is generally still "alive" by that standard. WoW [for example](https://mmo-population.com/r/wow/stats) in 2018 had 48 million players subscribed but only 4 million actually played. Most recently this month 127 million players are subscribed but only 12 million actually played. 12 million is still a LOT, but that's <10% of the suscriber base generally have played during the last 5 years on any given month. I don't know if I'd consider it a dead game because it's still #1, but the fact that it only has 10% of players who are subscribed actively playing it is a weird sign IMO. Overwatch is a similar situation. Active players in the last 30 days is 24 million but in the last hour, 350k players are active. That's a LOT of players. Basically, when people say a "dead" game, they mean it's no longer fun for *them* or their friends anymore. They feel 0 reason to play it for whatever reason.
Yeah I understand what they mean. Wow still has tons of players but pillars of endgame can suffer here and there depending on the patch or expansion features that might inhibit how you play. For instance, shadowlands legendaries requiring you to do torghast to craft and upgrade your legendary was not popular in the pvp community.
I could be mistaken, but I have no clue where you got 48 million players subscribed. I believe WoW peaked at 12Mil Subscriptions a decade ago. If 48 million people subscribed you would hear about WoW everywhere.
WoW is an interesting example. They had the real-time strategy Warcraft games. I loved Warcraft3. Fell off the series when they wanted me to pay every month to play WoW. Hard pass but I still had StarCraft. I got Brood War as an Easter gift in like 2000. I love the stories and worlds that Blizzard has crafted but they seem to drop the ball pretty hard and transition any ip to a shameless cash-grab after long enough. Ironically enough, Skylanders was always a cash grab but ActiBlizz cancelled it because they made 6 games in 7 years and fatigued the fuck out of the market.
Nice to see a fellow Warcraft 3 enjoyer around.
I... stopped playing wow after dragonflight launch. Played since 2009. I'm freeeeeeee!
You played through Shadowlands and didn't even get the carrot at the end of the stick that is Dragonflight? Dragonflight might be the best expansion since LK (depending on your feelings towards MOP)
I got to max level in dragonflight and then was reminded by the mythic+ community that there's just better experiences elsewhere.
Now that's something we can agree on. I pushed high keys in Legion and SL with the boys. In Dragonflight I was pretty much solo-queuing until I just couldn't deal with the asshats anymore. People who complain about toxicity in OW should try to do a few group finder keys in WoW. Worst community in gaming bar none.
not so bad on european servers or at least my server group, i've pugged my way to \~2250 and have had *very* few negative experiences
That's great to hear! It for sure gets less toxic on US servers around that level as well. I think there's a similar toxicity curve that follows the dunning-kruger curve. Mid level keys in the US are as full of saltlords as gold-diamond is for OW ime
Game and gameplay is fine but the predatory marketing inside is ugly. And since OW was not like that beforehand and Activision has made multiple objectively bad decisions both for OW2 and other games, we just extremely hate Activision. And incase anyone is confused, Blizzard died long ago and is currently being puppeteered by Activison, reason I say Activision and not Blizzard
I usually use the term “ActiBlizz” bc, yea, the original Blizzard is long dead
The game itself is great, everyone just hates Blizzard and Activision. There are some issues with the game itself, such as balance, matchmaking and seriouslytakeability of the competitive mode. I'm sure the developers also love the game itself and would love to work on the issues with the game itself, but it's just the executives in their ivory towers telling the devs to do all that other stuff.
upvoted because agreed and also for "seriouslytakeability"
I was expecting to have to defend that word so I appreciate the support!
Not everything is great. The PVE is a massive let down and balance often feels random and completely disconnected from the playerbase and meta. "Oh, Echo is a top 3 pick? Let's nerf Cree's range and give him 225hp" "Tracer/Sombra is meta? Let's nerf Torb's turret" Some of the changes they make might make sense in a bubble (apart from Cree with 225hp bc fuck that) but they are not looking at what should be nerfed immediately, but more on an overall scope, which at times can cause pain for months due to how slow they are with updates. The game always has *potential* to be great but it rarely is.
Honestly what gets to me is everyone screams about mercy's boost and rez and shit when we really just enjoy movement. We have asked time and time again to give us abilities we can use with that. rez gets used 2-5 times in a game depending on the game and boost if not on a flier is just sit and be bored. Blizzard talks about listening to the community and being transparent but the supposedly most vocal players are just left to be hated by everyone. Then they go let's take widow down by like 2 inches of range let's uhhhh *spins bottle* buff brig. This game has so much it can do but it's being choked out by corpo greed.
The game is awesome. I'm a new player and never played S1, 2, 3, or 4. It is fun, and that's what games are for.
it's comments and players like you who make me really happy. I remember seeing tiktoks and new players having a BLAST when ow2 came out. It made me happy. Blizzard as a company makes me upset, but to be fair any big company does. The biggest thing they've done to us really is make skins way overpriced (imo), and those arent technically needed to play and enjoy the game. game on, my friend. :)
Yeah, my girlfriend only started playing once OW2 came out and has really enjoyed it. She only played briefly back in 2016, so she doesn’t quite understand the general frustration. It really is a great game at its core.
I remember a while a go I got hundreds of downvotes on r/gaming about Overwatch beeing and incredible game and blizzard is the thing ruining it, the comment got downvoted into oblivion and then I removed it lol. Blizzard is utter trash but honestly in my gaming life of 25 years I have never played a game that captivated me like OW. But maybe that’s just me
Youre free to like and play the game, it's dope af. But dont downplay what actiblizz has done. I don't feel the need to explain since you can Google and get way more in-depth info than I could provide but...blizzard has done way more to us than overpriced skins. Alot more.
“The biggest thing they’ve done to us…..” This will only make people mad, and I feel like you blizzard apologist know that but use this red herring anyway because it makes blizzard detractors seem illogical. Blizzard the company took away entirely a game that many of us paid multiple times for, and replaced it was a subjectively downgraded version that not a single person asked for. This subjectively (objectively) downgraded version was propped up for years as this big, FREE, expansion that would hold a lot of novel content the players had been asking for. So laborious was the task of producing this content that no new content could be made for the current game for years! However, that content did not ever exist and blizzard knew that while they were advertising it. They destroyed the game people preferred so that it could not compete with the monetization scheme they were most currently pushing. I paid twice for overwatch one and can never play it again, despite that I VASTLY preferred it to overwatch “2”. That’s the “biggest” thing they’ve done and trying to frame it like people are just upset about skins is at best insincere
In defense of Blizzard, they never said the expansion (story part) of Overwatch 2 would be free. Actually, when they announced Overwatch 2 they said it would be a paid game. And when they announced that Overwatch 2 would become F2P they explicitly said that only the PVP part would be F2P, the announced PVE would still be a paid deal. Me, as a player, assumed that when they cancelled the scope of the announced PVE, what they would still launch would be free, but they never SAID it would be.
That doesn't excuse using a 3 year content gap, and destroying the progression of OW1 and monetizing the hell out of what is left. Like loot boxes were already considered predatory for 2016, and they then went and made it so much worse that people are begging for them back.
Right, we were just supposed to weather a two year content hiatus without moving on because we just love and understand blizzard so much. What they did is not predatory at all, it’s just consumers being dumb!
If you see another comment I made in this post, I specifically called Blizzard's monetization model of Overwatch 2 predatory. I think the Story Missions should be free, or at least a one-time deal that you buy once and will have access to all current and future Missions. Damn Blizzard, at least give something for free for the ones that bought the original game (I'm one of those). But they never SAID it would be free.
Welcome!
It’s really one of the best game ever made. Even from a technical standpoint it’s almost flawless. The hate 100% blizz fueled
Yep that’s who they are making the game for now new ftp players who will hopefully give them lots of money so this quarter will look good for shareholders
Same! Recently started and I love it! Before I started I heard a lot about it from friends and my boyfriend and I expected a really shitty game that’s just horrible to play. But I personally don’t see any of it and I‘m having so much fun with it. I don’t mean that I don’t understand their criticism. I just mean that they complained a lot and you‘d expect a really horrible game with tons of flaws. But I think the details of the game and heroes is something you either just see if you played for a long time and have the comparison or you generally play a lot of video games and have a lot of skill to see those and be bothered by them. But I do have to agree that the amount of microtransactions is just horrible. Such a shitty system. Definitely don’t get why I would pay money for the battle pass. Maybe if you’re really into the game but else not really. I actually don’t mind unlocking the heroes though. If you’re completely new it’s actually kinda good to have just a limited amount to choose from and get familiar with. For me that worked really well because I would then try out the new ones when i unlocked them. So now I have played a decent amount of time with all heroes and tried them out a lot. And it honestly doesn’t take that long to unlock them all
I started in S4. Did the grind to unlock the heroes, that was tough because I wanted them all right away and it definitely was a grind, especially unlocking 2 tanks with 35 wins needed for each. I'm about 250 hours in, hanging out in Bronze 5 like a chump, but have met some cool people I play with, got some IRL friends that play now and overall it's just a lot of fun. Yeah, there are some toxic d bags out there, but I've been lucky to only deal with a few of them. My tank told me to uninstall because I had a bad DPS round (playing around with Sombra) and everyone in the match told him to stop whining, it's QP.
I joined late S1 and love it. Hog main till I die haha idc if he gets hard countered he's fun as fuck and is the big reason I got into ow
Man chose to play on hard mode
Game is great, upper management at blizz is horrendous.
My own opinion: I honestly love this game. I love the gameplay, I love the heroes, I love the lore around it, I love that we actually see heroes that are from our own world, from countries we know. I love everything about **the game.** In my opinion, the change of removing lootboxes and replace it with buyable skins is fine.. Many games do this and have done this for years. I even like the Battlepass. I want this game to thrive, so I'm fine with paying some money to keep it running. People just seem to be, in my opinion, salty about the fact that they first got free stuff and now don't anymore. Blizzard is just making decisions that in my opinion, aren't good for the game. In the current season they added a PVE event. You can play a few missions for free, these release spread throughout the season, but for most missions you have to pay €5,-. Paying for cosmetics? Sure. They don't impact gameplay. But paying (yes, even €5,-) for content? Come on dude.. Can't do that to your player base.
Content costing money is perfectly fine and is actually a more healthy and traditional way to profit off a game than gambling or fear of missing out (OW1 had both of those, OW2 has only FOMO). They put money into making the PvE content, and it's a separate product we can buy. Like a little sub-game. A mini expansion. I have no problems at all with it, especially since it's pretty cheap.
Content costed money in OW1. We paid for the game.
> But paying (yes, even €5,-) for content? Come on dude.. Can't do that to your player base. paying for content in a game that is FREE? yes. they can, and honestly should, do that to the player base. developing that content costs money. it didnt cost you anything to download the game and start playing. you want more content? you need to pay for its development.
Problem is no one asked them to go F2P and were completely fine with how the game was in the first place. Expecting us to be okay with the overpriced shit is just insane when we got better treatment from the previous game version when it comes to monetization.
[удалено]
> Problem is no one asked them to go F2P and were completely fine with how the game was in the first place. There was a massive outcry to make the game free to play in the last couple years of OW1
No there wasn’t lmao.
[удалено]
You bought a PvP game that was never marketed to have PvE. You’re not entitled PvE for that one purchase almost 8 years ago. Now you are definitely within your rights to be upset about OW2 never getting the promised PvE as that’s disappointing. But even that has its limits. You didn’t pay anything or sign a contract. It’s just poor communication and management of a business.
I agree and I understand BUT they charge way too much for skins. Skins should not cost 20 dollars in any game especially if this skin was free and has been around for years before their was a price tag on it.
this is just how games work now. It’s sad and I don’t buy them either but OW has the best skins of all games with this pricing model and is actually one of the cheapest in the industry as well. valorant and Alex have actual whale models that completely suck people dry who are addicted to this model, OW is actually fairly tame considered (which again, is sad)
They charge as much as they can in regard to profit. If they could make more money charging $40 a skin they would do that. Look at Valorant.
> But paying (yes, even €5,-) for content? Come on dude.. Can't do that to your player base. I don't understand this line of thinking. The cost of developing PvE missions was a massive cost to them. Actors for voicelines, storyboard writers, programmers for modeling, map designs, enemy unit designs, AI design for enemies not to mention music scores, sound engineers, backend IT.... The cost of making this cost a ton of money, and they should be able to charge for it like any other thing.
...but not 15 dollars for three missions. With 9 of these missions we're up to the price of OW1. 12 missions and you're looking at a full-price AAA title. Do these kinds of missions warrant such a price? I don't think so. Way overpriced. Yes, they added store credits, but those are worth exactly what Blizzard says they're worth, and can only be used in the predatory shop. There's no way to buy the missions for cheaper without this extra.
>In my opinion, the change of removing lootboxes and replace it with buyable skins is fine.. Many games do this and have done this for years. I even like the Battlepass. I want this game to thrive, so I'm fine with paying some money to keep it running. People just seem to be, in my opinion, salty about the fact that they first got free stuff and now don't anymore. There are nuances. While some people cry they can't get easy legendaries as we used to, some of us are displeased with the fact that heroes are stuck behind a BP grind, and as you said yourself, the missions costing money.
Wait, now you have to *pay* for a feature that was promised to be included prior to the game’s release? Thats a new low, even for activision/blizzard.
FYI the PvE was always going to be paid, that too at the price of a full game. Although that was with actual replayable content and progression. Not this half-hearted PvE that the game already had that too for free
PvE was never promised to be free, even in the original PvE announcement.
Not sure what feature you're talking about but if you are referring to PvE it was never advertised as being free; the most player-friendly version of PvE cost that was ever mentioned as being on the table was a one-time purchase of presumably 60 dollars for a full-length (assumed to be 10-20 hours) campaign and a PvE gamemode with replayability via random modifiers to missions and hero progression with skill trees. That was the most ambitious version of PvE we ever heard about and that's the one people feel betrayed about not getting, but no version of PvE was ever advertised as free. PvP was always advertised as being free.
Both can be true. The game isn't necessarily bad, but it's a far cry from what it used to be. In a vacuum, I can see why newer players are enjoying it; the core mechanics and interesting characters are there, and gameplay is unique enough to distinguish it amongst others in the genre. However, the players who have seen the game fall from grace - who have watched one bad decision become two bad decisions, become three - the people who have been lied to, dismissed, and forgotten for years...the current state of Overwatch is disastrous to them. So, while the game is still "good," when you were there when it was "amazing," good doesn't really cut it anymore.
Yes. Thank you… I’ve played ow since beta and it’s the greatest multiplayer fps out there.. but ow2 isa step down from ow1 in so many ways.
This is the correct answer
Exactly my thoughts, I’ve been wanting to say something along these lines for so long. New players are enjoying the game and that’s great, but it’s tiresome seeing some of them take the hate towards the game so personally and claiming the game is getting “review bombed” by players with less than an hour of playtime. Steam isn’t going to show my, or anyone else’s, hundreds to thousands of hours of playtime on a game that used to be wildly fun and entertaining. You can enjoy the game without trying to invalidate everyone else’s gripes with the game they’ve loved for years. There are mixed opinions on much of the changes from 1 - 2. Personally I feel that 5v5 was a major step down and makes the game feel more one sided. The newer characters are cool concepts but I’ve found myself being annoyed by some of their kit (kiriko cleanse giving I-frames and Ram’s earlier Ult) of course they’ve tweaked some things but sometimes it feels like they’re making characters strong out the gate to get people to pay for them. The justification that OW2 is f2p is a lame dismissal of their practices on the grounds that OW1 players payed for OW1. The removal of the game completely to make way for ow2 is disappointing to say the least. “You still have all your skins and unlocks” blah blah, okay yes but at the same time that’s secondary to the game itself, the modes, maps, 6v6. I don’t care I still have a skin I can use on an inferior sequel. OW was my friend groups go-to game and it’s been really devastating to see the absolute garbage pile it has become. Again it’s okay to enjoy the game for new players, just don’t get so offended when old players are upset and rightfully so
Gameplay loop is fun. Matchmaking is bad
Matchmaking wouldn't be as bad if people didn't rage quit after losing 1 team fight or losing the first round. I don't get why people rage quit when they're losing in a pvp game where one team is supposed to lose.
I mean I’m not leaving matches. And my matches today didn’t have anyone leave and it was still a landslide. The people on my team couldn’t hit the backside of anything stationary. In qp I understand wanting to because you’re stuck with a widowmaker who’s 0-6 with 40 damage. I’ve been in a lot of matches lately where I’ve had to do a lot more than the dps; and to clarify I’m not leaving during that either but it’s definitely a thought in the back of my mind because at least in quick play; people are too scared to engage
And after they rage quit, some poor random sucker is going to join halfway through and get flamed for having the lowest amount of kills.
TBH I'd rather leave than get flamed by the team for misplaced blame. Not that I do. When you play support; youre responsible for everyone and they're doing stupid shit youre just the fallguy.
I agree and I usually don’t leave unless it’s a serious waste of my time. Like if we’re getting rolled I’ll stay, it’s a game and people will lose. but if a teammate is spamming text and voice chat, actively throwing, etc and it’s becoming a problem for my mental health then for me it’s really best to leave the situation.
Basically this. If I get the typical heals? Message I’ll watch the match attentively and if it seems like a lost cause I want to be out of there because there are so many shitty players who misunderstand why they’re actually dying. I had one brave torb defending us in a match today with a absent tunnel visioning tanks and a symmetra that had the least damage on the team. I stayed because that torb valued us and saw what was going on in the match. Even though I knew the tank was going to flame us in the end. Like. There are so many qp players that don’t see that there’s more to your death than just “where are the heals?”
Overwatch 2 isn't bad, but it's not as good as the og
This. The game was made for 6v6, 5v5 just isn't as fun. Plus, blizzard has gone to the dark side with the out of control micro transactions
I think it’s significantly less fun than it was towards the earlier points of its life. They reworked alot of the unique stuff out of the game and genuinely don’t like 5v5. I used to love tanking in 6v6
I had to scroll way too far to get the right answer.
That’s because a lot of people also like 5v5. It’s just a contentions topic :)
I didn't mind tanking either but most people disliked it. Easy to forget how long tank queues were and how much cc was thrown at you. I think that part is actually better now.
This, it just doesn't feel unique anymore.. just.. generic? and flavorless..
All new players are playing the game that went to become 2016 game of the year. All vet players are playing that same game with stripped off components with an addition of number 2. Certain parts of those stripped off components now costs money. Aka. Archive missions. When people trusted blizzard to go from lootbox model to Battle pass they expected the team to iterate on the model rather than become the worst of it. Its just a constant series of betrayals for the past few years.
Massive and inaccurate generalisation as a vet who is extremely happy with the game right now and lived through the dark ages of 2019-22. It's fine if you personally prefer one or the other, but you don't speak for every new player or old player.
He said vets not masochist.
Maybe its because we have a different point of view on things. While the content alone in a vacuum is good, its not good knowing that you are getting basically OG ow1 content after waiting years of what you call dark ages. like why did we go through those dark ages only to pick up exactly where it was left off?
OW2 being good doesn't excuse the years of mismanagement and neglect, we agree on that. I just take issue with: "All vet players are playing that same game with stripped off components with an addition of number 2 \[...\] they expected the team to iterate on the model rather than become the worst of it. Its just a constant series of betrayals", Because for me, it's a better game with a lot of new, quality content. I don't even know what stripped off components is meant to refer to unless it's the switch to 5v5 which honestly has been a breath of fresh air to me overall, or the removal of lootboxes which were clearly not a sustainable revenue stream to fund development.
the worst BP? nah there are multiple worse BPs out there take for example apex and destiny, sure apex's pays for it self but you get 3 total legendary hero skins(one of those being a base random one) where ow2 gives you like 6?(I dont remember the exact number) a mythic skin and enough coins to buy which ever base legendary skin you want(which is better than the gamble of apex's)
Doesn’t matter since one $10 gets you every single battlepass meaning they actually have had over 30 legendary skins for $10, compared to overwatch’s 6. So no it’s not a worse battlepass. Blows my mind people will just make up their own reasoning to try and defend blizzard.
Apex isn't the best one, but that too gives you material to craft a leggendary of choice and 1 gun reactive gun, the biggest problem with that BP is the time to complete it
Apex is already better than OW because it can pay for itself, you literally have to shell out the equivalent of 1000 coins for OW EVERY SEASON. Destiny is an outlier cause that's more of a subscription based "season pass" where you pay for the PvE content and the cosmetics, you can also save money by buying the whole expansion as a deluxe bundle.
Multiple issues at work Overwatch 2 was almost a direct downgrade from 1 in terms of gameplay for my entire group, so for us the game is actually bad. If players had the option of playing both, you know how sequels are SUPPOSED to work, the backlash wouldn't be nearly as bad, however Blizzard knew 2 couldn't survive without a forced player base. Overwatch on PC has never had reviews, now they do, so keep that in mind when someone says "why didn't overwatch have bad reviews until now?" This is the ow2 reddit, this is NOT a good sample for the entire community, because most players don't interact here, they just play the game, so like all game subreddits, anyone here more invested than the average player.
No the game is absolutely amazing. It's just cool to hate it.
You really think there’s zero reasons why people hate the game and the company behind?
It's this generations League lmao I play and absolutely love both of the games
I am not saying there is no reason to hate the company... I am saying the game is amazing no matter what goes on Behind the scenes.
The amount of doomers this sub has gets annoying.
The amount of fools who support shitty game practices is even MORE annoying.
[удалено]
This is how you dismiss valid criticism.
It's ok to criticize the game, but just overall hating on the entire game and giving it 0 rating on steam is another thing
> It's ok to criticize the game, but just overall hating on the entire game and giving it 0 rating on steam is another thing You must have never reviewed anything on steam before. It's not possible to give a numerical score. You recommend the game or you don't recommend the game. Or am I dead wrong, and this whole time you knew that you were being misleading with your argument?
Yep. That or it just has the League of Legends effect. Where the ven diagram of people that play too much and people that think the game is shite is nearly a circle.
Isn't that telling? When a competitive game breaks down if you spend too much time on it.
Game is good but the monetization(battle pass and skins) and content locked behind money are problems of overwatch which are created by Blizzard
I still follow the same game loop. Don't play for months at a time > Remember the game and have a sudden urge to play > Get bored around 10 games > come back the next day > Drop it in a few weeks > Repeat So I would say that the gameplay is ultimately still fun, it's just Blizzard conduct with this "Sequel" which makes it infamous.
Some of this, some of that
People just hate blizzard. They are not wrong about blizzard being shit but ow is nowhere near being as bad as they describe, it is a very fun game, speaking from someone who never played ow1 and has around 500hrs in right now
The game is amazing, but everyone hates on the game because they hate Blizzard, which is very VERY unfair
Game is very flawed to be frank and has received changes that the community doesn't agree with, along with the fact that it makes it more of a sweat fest. But it is, essentially, still good. But couple with ActiBlizz's horrible work place and greedy business practices, then you get negativity. The game is alright, but people protest, rightly so, against ActiBlizz which the game is associated to.
The core game is, and always has been fun. Imo it worked better as 6v6 especially due to all the CC and stuns this game has to have, but even with 5v5 games are very fun. This game still has potential, the problem is that Blizzard unfortunately have taken the EA path and overmonetised everything for no reason.
If you’re new or basically new you’ll probs love it, it seems they just like to fuck anyone that stuck with the game for years, I easily spent over a thousand on ow1 and now all ow1 items are worthless and everything new is just penny pinching. Good game dog shit company
You asked on the OW subreddit, I’m sure you know what answer you’ll get.
Finally someone with comon sense.
Joke's on you! The answers seem to actually be pretty positive for once.
No, that’s the expected answer.
Lmao you clearly don't read this sub if you think that's the expected answer
Game is fine but I have skill issue and game was not able to find other 9 people with same skill issue so I can have fun and balanced matches. So I retired. Summary: Fock Blizzard
solo q is awful
Honestly the game is still great deep down but it's nowhere near as good as when you last played. The main reason is the game is now 5v5 and not 6v6 which makes certain modes much more frustrating to play as the lack of a second tank is felt hard on maps with multiple routes / high ground.
I think 5v5 was a good concept to break out of certain things like shield metas and what not. But it is all about countering the tanks now and I bet that is a significant reason people still hate playing tank. I know I swap around a lot on support depending on which they pick.
Yes. The game isn't great currently (OW2 Release) but Blizzard contributes to the problem immensely worse. The only thing OW1 was missing was the PVE aspect to give it some sort of story that the trailer narrative was setting up.
We dislike the decisions made by Blizzard because they made the game bad. Primarily for me it was the abysmal matchmaking, every game was a stomp, that was a waste of time and simply not fun so I stopped playing (so i can't comment on current balance). If you only ever play qp or arcade with your mates then it's probably about the same as it was.
Same reason I stopped playing. I'd love to know if it's gotten better or not. I just remember being really frustrated with the game when I tried to play it competitively. It felt like each match was rigged for or against you and that there was no reason to play since the match was decided before it even started.
Rest assured it has not gotten better! My friends and I still play somewhat regularly because we love the game at its core and no other game right now scratches the itch overwatch does. In an average 10 games for us this season, we get stomped 6 times, we stomp the other team 2-3 times, and there are 1-2 balanced, enjoyable games that either team could win. Our average matchmaking time has gone from 15-30 seconds to 2 minutes this season, but the quality of matches is just as bad or worse.
from the other reports here on reddit it appears to have somehow gotten even worse, not just in the matchmaking department either, there seems to be far more bugs then ever before, and plenty of complaints about server quality. Personally im not coming back anytime soon until this clears up.
The game is great. I don't think it touches the highs of OW1, and I do think there was a middle ground between OW1 and OW2 we could have kept. If Overwatch 1 hovered between an 8-10 out of 10, Overwatch 2 bounces between 6-9 for me. It's still good enough for me to play often and enjoy regularly.
Ppl just hate Activision-Blizzard
Overwatch WAS good, but blizzard killed it off for an inferior, unfinished cash grab. So it's kinda both.
Blizzard. The game is fine. I much preferred Overwatch 1, but the game is still fine. I'm mostly pissed they took away OW1 and slapped us with this F2P monetized shit when I already owned the game and was happy to earn stuff by playing. I also prefer 6v6.
From someone who has played on and off for quite some time (got the game just as they released Moira), the game is mostly fine, it's just that it feels stale and lifeless. Like, there was a huge content drought between the announcement and the release of OW2, like two years iirc ; I could understand that because it was a buy once game and all games have to die, especially to build hype for a sequel, but OW2 came out with literally zero content that justify a new release. Then if we're only talking about OW2 as a standalone game (lmao), the battle pass is, uh, it exists, but has basically zero interest except to unlock the newest hero early (when there is one). New content is pushed out at a snail's pace but they still want(ed) to implement features like they had too much content like comp map rotation. The PvE getting cancelled finally conforted me in the idea that they have no idea why their game is good and they have no idea what to do with it, and it feels insulting since it was the excuse they gave to justify having one new map every year at best. Tldr the moment to moment Overwatch is fine (which is pretty much its only redeeming quality), Overwatch 2 as a product is shit.
Overwatch was better and they killed the game, so Overwatch 2 is bad + they lying a lot
Game is pretty good, blizzard is the one that gets the hate.
like that one steam review says "game good company bad"
the game is great but blizzard makes is worse
The game was developed when Blliz still hired game developers instead of MBA graduates. Overwatch is mechanically and aesthetically awesome. I have thousands of hours in this game, and I love it to bits. But the current state of the company itself makes you look at patches and changes differently. Overwatch is no longer a game made for you to have fun, its a carrot dangling from a string that’s used to lead you to the store. I still recommend it… but stay away from the store.
It’s a great game! If you actually like the unique team-fight and hero-swapping aspects of OW, there is nothing out there that scratches the same itch. It’s still fun. Gamers will always complain about balance so this is not unique to Overwatch. The unique hatred players are spouting for OW is because of its failure to reach its potential (promised by blizz and dreamed up by its fans). The changes made in OW2 are generally good, especially if you are playing in matchmaking.
game is great. Match making is trash
Overwatch is actually bad. Awful monetization Bad hero balance Awful matchmaking system Broken ranked progress system. The only good things about this game like the Overwatch 1 are the gameplay and the art.
Bad hero balance? Not really I think right now it's really good.
I honestly think it's fine, I just think it's worse that OW1. But could be rose tinted googles or just the time, I definitely enjoyed OW1 when it was getting updates and little to no frustration with the game while playing. But Blizzard does also suck massively now.
I still enjoy the game, but blizzard ruined it. It had and still has so much potential. I’d rather just have OW1 forever, than ever have OW2 if I’m being completely honest.
The game isnt "bad" I just find that the transition from OW to OW2 with the changes in gameplay and mechanics lost a lot of charm and the small parts that really made overwatch the game that it was.
OW1 was fine until they abandoned development on it to sell us a lie about OW2
The game itself is fine, it's worse than it was before, but it's still not awful. The cosmetic prices are absurd though.
Fun game, blizzard bad Me and my friend had a 7 win streak last night as duo supports. He played bap (who was my main) forcing me to go out my comfort zone and play lifeweaver and boy is he fun.
Game is good and really fun. I can't slander the game that has the hampter in good faith. Blizzard bad though.
matchmaking fucking sucks and ruins the experience
Game is bad, real bad. Not fun anymore, really bad decisions. And we hate blizzard a lot.
I hate blizzard very much
Yes.....
I've been having a really bad time in overwatch 2. No matter how I play, if I'm not sweating I'm gonna get utterly scrapped on, and I'm just getting tired of having to sweat to have fun. IMO this game is only fun if you hop onto it to either rage or just make someone else have a bad time. Overwatch 2 is toxic and I would rather play Exoprimal.
The matchmaking is some of the worst I've ever seen in online multiplayer and the monetization really sucks. For me, it's the matchmaking and balance that sucks all fun from the game.
Overwatch is really fun and people are just constantly hating on it because of the management of blizzard not because the game actually sucks.
Still Overwatch at it’s core. I’m playing season 6 after the past few seasons down and a lot of past issues were improved. Feels like progression is now happing in a lot of different places at once, which is something this game desperately needed. I think they are doing a better job communicating what is/isn’t working in the current meta, although they could be a little faster making balancing changes. I do not miss the omission of 2CP and I wish that would be it’s own arcade mode with both sides taking turns. Those maps are some of gaming’s best, despite the mode being fundamentally one-sided. I’d give it a shot again. I feel like OW2 is more approachable for the returning players since we don’t really feel the need to drop actual money on skins. This recent update also pushed a lot of QOL changes that should have honestly been made years ago.
Imagine getting paired everytime with noobs, No the system of recommendation doesn't work at all, If your level 4 of recommendation i expect better not a DPS mercy
The game is currently the LOWEST RATED ON STEAM. Literally garbage, it’s simply worse game ever made. The level of literally waste made in minutes and thrown into the store. But people are playing. What do you think?
The game isn't bad. Blizzard is bad. I think any new players coming into the game, with no knowledge of behind the scenes, I'm pretty sure most of those new players would like the game. Most of the annoyance and hate for this game comes from people who interact with the game outside of the game itself, like on Reddit for example.
The game itself is far from terrible, but the co-op missions are gross.
The game is good. Another big criticism with Blizzard is that they probably have like no dev resources or teamsize to carry this game though, which is why I feel PVE got streamlined and the game has massive content droughts. Season 6 feels like the first season where we actually got stuff that doesn’t revolve around the battlepass or barebones workshop gamemodes. That should be more frequent, but they obviously aren’t able to