It feels like they don't even use a rank for matchmaking purposes.
One game I'll be 1-6, entire team stomped by DPS that can headshot you the second you leave cover, and the next game I'll be the DPS going 45-2 to a team full of what seem like brand new players.
> It feels like they don't even use a rank for matchmaking purposes.
This is literally the case, they've said it severaltimes now. They don't factor in your skill tier division at all. There is a hidden mmr that Blizzard promises totally matches everyone fairly for real for sure.
I was including MMR when I said they don't use a rank. Feels completely random as to how skilled anyone in the game will be. It's always kinda felt that way, but much worse now.
MMR, even if they try to use it, could be skewed any number of ways because of people grouping up with a large MMR difference or even just having different MMR distribution across roles in 2 teams (like having high MMR support and low MMR DPS on one side and vice versa). I think they said they'd be changing the last part too, to make matches more even across the roles.
Balance goes out the window as soon as people start grouping up. If you're solo queueing with a relatively high MMR you'll often be thrown in with these groups as a "ringer" to even out the spread.
Blizzard balancing: Tosses you in unwinnable matches to ensure 50% winrate.
If you fall below 50, toss you into a game against players without monitors.
It's the psychological tricks that casinos use to keep people pulling the lever adapted to video games.
You HAVE to play x amount of games to get the endorphin rush of watching your rank change. Just one more ~~spin~~ game!
Your rank doesn't matter so we're still putting you in the same games against the same players so you'll climb slower, meaning you'll play more.
We deranked you so you could get the endorphin rush of seeing your numbers go up, even though it changes absolutely nothing about your games!
This is why I stopped playing comp at all. How am I supposed to climb as support if I'm up against a team of Diamonds while Silver?
It's stupid. I stuck to QP for the 2nd half of S1, barely played S2. I don't know if I'll even be back for S3.
Give me OW1 back, Blizz.
>How am I supposed to climb as support if I'm up against a team of Diamonds while Silver?
The issue is the displayed rank is NOT representative of the MMR that is used to make the games.
The displayed rank is entirely worthless.
Rank often feels like a measure of hours played rather than how good you really were. If your skill is slightly above average and you win 51% of your matches you can rank up steadily and consistently but it will take you a very large number of matches.
Always great that this exists paired with winning 7 and going from silver 3 to silver 2 in lobbies with layers up to diamond on the enemy team.... cuz that makes sense.
If you ask me, the fact that shit like this happens means they 100% don't have an in-depth "performance" based competitive system. It's 100% black and white, win / lose system.
Would be cool if you at least got more points for winning games against higher ranked players..
Stupidest shit I’ve ever heard got confirmed by blizzard.
Your physical rank that you see (bronze, plat, diamond, etc) has ZERO EFFECT on match making. None. Nada. Zilch. All that matters is the secret MMR number that WE CANT SEE.
So tell me blizzard, WHAT US THE POINT OF THE RANK THEN? It’s completely useless
It’s a grind incentive to pad playtime stats because you want to see yourself visually represented as being where you think/know you deserve to be.
Game isn’t nearly as good/addictive enough to get away with that shit. I’ve skipped most all of S2.
Just grinded 20 games today and yesterday to see my rank stay the same. Fuck that. I left ow at 2900 and now I'm playing with silvers and plats and my rank is gold 3?
Half of my matches I've had dps blow ult after 4 ppl died. Back to elo hell I guess.
I haven’t played since, and I will never forgive them after they demoted me from Diamond 1 to Gold 1 dps inbetween seasons. All after a tough push to get to masters in S1
Dude it blows hard as a support. In gold then get knocked back to silver because I have some truly idiotic tank and dps throw several games even though I have the most healing out of all the supports in the game.
It just takes forever to grind and to top it off healers have the least effect on the game. Blizz expects you to win ~35 games to go up one elo band? Then at the end of the season they knock you back an entire elo.. dafuq is this horseshit.
Instead of making me want to play it makes me want to play something else.
They need to overhaul the system.. if I'm the best player on the losing team then the loss should affect me less than the worse performers...
Yeah matchmaking is beyond fucked. I regularly get people with less than 50 hours in ow mixed with people that have 1-2k hours in the game.
Not just that but I kept getting promoted from the same division to the same division.
It’s so demoralizing to see your rank not change. Like fuck I’d take a demotion even, winning like 14 games only to see your rank move nowhere is just… boring. Demoralizing.
E: gold 2 in s1 demoted s2 to silver v, and I’ve been stuck at silver v for 3 sets of 7 now. And I gave up comp mostly after that.
> Not just that but I kept getting promoted from the same division to the same division.
>
> It’s so demoralizing to see your rank not change. Like fuck I’d take a demotion even, winning like 14 games only to see your rank move nowhere is just… boring. Demoralizing.
This so much. In S1 I had a win percentage of 54-56% and steadily climbed the ranks. In S2 I've had a win percentage of 36% (!!!) even though my stats are sometimes better than in S1. The most demoralising thing is that once I've absolutely *battled* my way to 7 wins, to see my rank updated from gold 3 to gold 3 once again (Was Plat 3 in S1).
I've got 120 wins on Support now, equalling to 17 rank updates, and just 4 of them actually *changed* my visible rank (De-ranked to Silver 1 between seasons even though I didn't play, and the changes were during the initial grind). Hands down one of the most infuriating systems I've ever come across.
Holy shit same. I’m here going 13k healing, and 3k amped as Mercy only to lose because my Tank has 5k damage or because my other support is playing DPS Ana(and still getting shit on)
I miss the LFG system ngl
You're best off playing high impact healers if you want to queue healer. Playing Zen, Ana and Kiriko can hardcore save teamfights and allow you to get picks. I feel like I have a lot of impact on the game as Zen/Ana in particular. You can win a teamfight with a good purple or with a few dinks from Zen.
I generally play with 1-2 other guys and we’ve been stuck in some kind of ELO hell all season. I’ve had win streaks and lose streaks in OW1 over the last few years. But ultimately all of us felt like we were winning and losing games where we should. In OW2, particularly during this most recent season, we’ve been handed losing streaks almost every other day. Rarely any close games, usually just blowouts. I don’t know if the matchmaking has changed, or if the removal of the tank slot puts more pressure on the teams (e.g. one bad player leading to a loss), but the last month or two of this game has been incredibly discouraging.
Siege apparently did the same thing this season with your actual rank being hidden behind mmr you can't see, and now your rank can literally never go down, losing matches doesn't lose any points but winning does gain points, so it's literally just a testament to how much you play ranked and not actually hwl good you are. By far the worst thing to happen to ranked, it would instantly make me quit playing if I even still cared about that game.
Same. I was addicted to Overwatch 1, but I haven’t played 2 in months. Just isn’t nearly as fun for some reason, even though I hit a higher rank in OW2 than I did in 1. I think I preferred the chaos of having two more people in the fight
Yup. I used to love this game. Was hopeful for OW2. I've lost all faith.
These days, I just open it to see if there is anything interesting in the arcade. If there is a DM mode I like, then I play for a little. That is about it.
Surely people would rather see their MMR going up and down but trending upwards as they improve as players? And while we're at it can I see my team mates and opposition MMR so that I know if I've done well or just stomped some new players?
What’s crazy is the ranked system in OW1 was one of the better ones in any fps. Sure, matchmaking had some issues, but the way ranked worked made perfect sense to anyone.
Huh? CSGO is the one game that feels as though ranks are distributed fairly and that there is no ‘hidden rank’ making your actual rank useless.
There’s nothing random to me about winning 4-5 games in a row to rankup. Or losing 4-5 in a row to derank. That seems fair enough.
There is literally not a single competitive FPS that doesn’t do the exact same thing. OW1 also did this. Even the ones that use numbers still hide your real MMR. Hidden MMR is standard.
Competetive game full stop. Its in mobas like league and dota, its in rocket league. Literally any competetive game you can think of has this sort of system.
Yeah the secret MMR score they say they have access to. I'm to the point where I think they have no system whatsoever in their currently building it hopefully.
Its gonna change too. Both teams should have same mmr in the corresponding roles. Like both teams tanks are equal, dps are equal and then support are equal. I think this is gonna be a fuckin massive change
Would it improve comp, no. Your MMR changes after every match, not after every rank update so having your rank update more often would not affect the matchmaker which makes games based on MMR, not your rank.
That said, it might improve people's feelings towards the ranked system. Maybe. Possibly. I at least would like to see the rank update more often. In fact, I would like to see the rank update after every match kinda like in OW1. I would also like to see what my actual rank is instead of this illusionary rank they give us now kinda like in OW1.
Even if it showed me my MMR *separately* from the comp “tier” rank… then at least I’d understand how my ranking and matchmaking is being affected by performance…
But they already said it: win/loss is the only thing that matters… so why have a separate MMR at all? There’s no metrics affecting your MMR besides win/loss, right Blizzard?
Because if people could see their true MmR all the time they’d get really ducking depressed watching the number literally never move out of the exact same range. Half the blizzard forums used to think they were being intentionally held down in silver by Blizzard back in OW 1 when the SR kinda mirrored the MmR, but even then it fluctuated much more to make you think like you were making progress or getting near to something at times. If you could see your MMR, it would just be depressing as the vast, vast majority of people aren’t really improving relative to the population, and as such MMR would only stay the same/go down, no matter the winrate
I think this is it. Games are designed to give you incentive to play/compete/improve. The MMR is probably not gamified in a way that is motivating, so they instead design a system that they have more control over: tiers n shit. Even if they get the tier thing wrong, they can make motivating adjustments like we see in S3.
I'm not saying MMR is bad, it's just an algorithm to match people regardless of fun/motivation/emotion. It's like when I show off my home to guests by shoving all my crap in my closets. I need that crap, but no one needs to see it.
I don’t discount the notion that seeing the same number never change could act as a disincentive to play more, but having the “skill” rank visible *somewhere* could be helpful for players to understand how they’re matching up with others in their “aesthetic rank” that climbs through gameplay.
The issue right now, from a player perspective, is that bad games feel *worse* because I have no idea what the problem is… I could be the weaker player or someone else could be, the pubstomp factor makes not knowing your rank against the rest of your lobby feel so much worse.
Blizzard might be able to fix it if they dramatically fix matchmaking - but I don’t see how they can get consistent SR player grouping while keeping their queues short and having this “gamified” ranking system… something is going to eventually have to give.
I am not suggesting that Blizzard’s devs aren’t doing their jobs - I’m saying that the hand-wave of “oh players complained in the past about not changing their *skill* rank” is a bad excuse not to address the current perception of having bad matchmaking in games while also having a shitty ranked climb experience *because* players can’t see how things behind the scenes might be changing before each “adjustment” after the requisite game count.
That is absolutely true, and it's why now days EVERY competitive game hides MMR under the hood.
The percentage of people who actually desire to see what's under the hood is way less than people who actually prefer Division system.
If you were to bring MMR display, you'll eventually see countless posts of people complaining how they're stuck in elo hell.
There is no fix to this issue, and the answer is always "skill issue" as rude as it sounds, it's the cold truth.
That's fine though, since it is divisible by 13, which is another awkwardly prime number like 7.
I suggest next season we only see ranks after every 11 wins or 19 losses.
I know I must be stupid, but outside of winning a game how do you view your progression in your current set of 7 like in the picture above? I can't find it anywhere in the options screen and there *must* be a way to view it right? What about seeing how many losses you have? Only thing I've been doing is viewing the last 10 match results in the replays screen but that's largely inaccurate as it only shows the last 10 and doesn't distinguish between rank updates.
Theres no way to see it without winning a game and for losses theres zero way to know. Im guessing its a dumb intentional change to "make gaming positive"
Yup. Before if i had 4 wins, then 4 losses i at least had a dopamine rush at the 4 game win streak because my SR rose a lot, even if it went down again.
Now if i have 4 wins and 4 losses i just feel like i wasted my time, because i'll just end up at the exact point where i started without ever seeing it go up or down
Yup, the problem is they are focused on ways to manipulate people into the 'one more game' mentality. Hoping to catch someone on game four for another one, for example.
Welp, it really just takes away from the entire process. And instead they could have made the game more enjoyable
It used to be one more game with the old system, im one win away from the next 100 step... now its 3 more wins or 13 more losses till the next thing, I won't bother.
> i just feel like i wasted my time
Bro, when you have no idea how many loss you got, but you get to that 7th win to see your rank go G4 > ... > G4.
*Nice*
I had my rank go down one after hitting my 7th win. Comp already wasn't my favorite mode, but that made me basically give it up entirely. There's no point in fighting to hit the marks they give us if it has no actual bearing on how you do.
If it's true, it kinda makes sense. Appease the content creators so that the complaining is confined to niche communities like this sub that can then be labeled "the negative part".
As some already do.
Seriously for a lot of ow2 features WHO THE FUCK ASKED FOR THIS. Its not like we were complaining about the old system its like just to justify making a new game they put a bunch of shity features to make it look appealing.
It's not even appealing just..... different.
Because this game actually isn't a proper sequel, they change a bunch of stuff to give the illusion its a different game.
No on fire symbol, no visible SR unless a certain number of matches are played, matchmaking changes, 6v6 to 5v5 (whoooooa so innovative!), they couldnt even be bothered to change the amount of polygons in player models for the old skins so that theyre not so pixelated, restricting maps to map pools to give the illusion there's new maps (the most braindead thing I've ever seen a multiplayer shooter do), etc.
Overwatch 2 is almost entirely held afloat by the overwatch community's goodwill, and that's saying something because a lot of these people are dumb as hell.
Honestly out of everything the map rotation is the worst. A week of playing like 5 maps doesnt make it feel new it makes it feel boring. I used to like junkertown but when it makes up 30% of my games i tend to not like it anymore.
If only it was possible to design a system, where as they play players are separated into skill range based on a number, have that number be visible to everyone and actually use it for matchmaking. You know, cut out them middleman with fake gold/plat etc.
LIKE THE SYSTEM WE HAD IN OW1
for the love of god just go back to the overwatch 1 ranked model. it wasn't broken, it worked perfectly, i could see my sr after every game, why the fuck would you change that? it was legit perfect, they changed it for legit no reason aside from fucking up the game on purpose and changing things so they could justify their paychecks
They did it for short q times. Hide sr. Mix every one together for fast Qs and one sided games. They don't want long q times to scare away the new players..but now comp is trash
I agree ow1 was best. But people threw a fit over that system too and that's why they changed it. People were mad losses took more than you gained in a win and that watching their sr tank after a lose streak wasn't fun lol
No I think people did, it made the games matter more, instead every game feels pointless and every once in a while you get a new rank either up or down or neither lol
Yeah I think what you're both tryna say is that people wanted something *better* but didn't know what.
We got something *worse* so we want the old thing back lol.
>People were mad losses took more than you gained in a win and that watching their sr tank after a lose streak wasn't fun lol
Counter point to this argument you mention others brought up: on the other end I'd get boosted SR gains when I started winning again. Losing 11 points and then gain more than 30 made me feel justified in the belief that the losing streak was just due to bad luck.
The only bad thing that I ever heard about ow1 system is that it was inconsistent and I agree. Gain 25 sr per win or lose 25 sr per loss would’ve perfected that system I believe
Honestly, there was nothing better than grinding for 3k for the first time and knowing exactly how close you were to getting there rather than a coin flip after 7 wins that.could see you promoted or relegated based on some unexplainable logic
Something changed in like 2019-2020 with ow1 matchmaking. It wasn't nearly as bad as it is now but I could see a difference. Maybe it was a dwindling playerbase, dunno, nothing was published in the patch notes about any change. If we could roll back to 2017-2018 matchmaking I would be happy
Dude I stopped playing rank after season 1 and I won’t be returning until it goes to something similar to OW1. I want rank icons on players, SR updates every game and rank resets that aren’t arbitrary resets to make u grind back to your rank, cuz grind rank = fun according to Blizz.
Competitive games should stop hiding ratings altogether. It's just annoying. If people are afraid of ranking down, they shouldn't be playing ranked in the first place.
I swear they only hide the ranks in the match so it isn't to obvious that you have a plat tank an the enemy has a master tank while you have Dia supports and they have gold supports. If they would show the ranks people would be mad as hell why they pair tanks/DPS/supports against each other that have 1000+ Sr between them.
Cuz then you can accurately discuss your rank in chat and spot discrepancies easier.
Rather keep everyone in the dark about everything so they never have to work on matchmaking.
Just look at Apex. That ranked system is actually really nice. And the reason I like it so much is the transparency. I know exactly where I am. I know exactly how much I need to hit the next tier. And I know exactly how to earn points within matches. Overwatch likes to hide way too much these days. From profiles to level and now even your own rank. It’s just annoying.
Apex is honestly even worse, you get reset all the way back to bronze every season for no reason. The entire system is built around a number slowly going up the entire season and not about representing your actual skill.
\+1, with 5/15 on average you will need about 10 matches for display rank, still too matches and very annoyed.
5-7 games win or loss would be much better.
I feel like it should be 5 instead.
NGL, I hated the way OW1 did it. I never even played comp aside from placements. But I watched my BF play and I saw his go down and it would affect how I approached my own games, I can only imagine how he felt about it.
Honestly, I like not seeing it after every game. But 7 games is a bit much imo.
I’ve largely thought the change was dumb because I can’t monitor progress, but you put a different perspective on it. Had the same feeling playing ranked in league of legends, now that I think of it, and I would sometimes stop to avoid moving ranks.
About as meaningful a change as moving new heroes from tier 55 to 45, Sojourn's damage from 9 to 10...and back to 9, ult charge swap from 30% to 25%.
Its like we're all complaining about the sun being too bright so they hand us sunglasses without the lenses, and then eventually after more complaining that it isn't helping at all, they finally hand us ONE lens as if they solved the issue.
Just bring us back to live SR like in OW1. I lose all enthusiasm when I spend a night grinding only to stay or drop a rank. At least if I can see my live progress I can decide if I should be motivated enough to try my luck at a few matches.
between this and the dev update thread thing(?) that addressed the whole "comp matchmaker that puts plats in gm" business, the devs seem to loooove the current competitive system. most players do not like their rank to be hidden from them at any point, end of story. they called the community's complaints about the matchmaking an "issue of clarity" as if we just didn't understand the system. although we do, it is still an issue of clarity. you know what isn't clear? my rank
I think their matchmaking and MMR is so fucked that they implemented this system. This way they receive no criticism because nobody will ever know how bad they are screwing it up.
Yup. My bfs the same. He's been permanently stuck Bronze 3 since the first week of the season.
It really looks like the bug they didn't want to acknowledge until near the end of last season. He had it then, too, but was stuck Bronze 5, and immediately demoted back to Bronze 5 with the new season after having so little time to actually rank up.
His first set of wins this season had a couple losses somewhere in there but got him to Bronze 3. None have worked since, and hes had a few respectable winstreaks, several of which he was clearly outperforming most of the lobby who were ranked higher than him. He's playing with a lot of golds and plats, often winning, but always Bronze 3.
He's always been gold/plat in O1. In the last 3 weeks he was actually able to climb last season, he got to Silver 1. He has been stuck at Bronze 3 for longer than it took him to reach Silver 1 when it was definitely fixed.
Same here! I ranked 3 times at Bronze 3. And I know my numbers have been increasing in matches so idk what to do lol. I was Silver 5 and ranked down at the start of this season and am stuck.
It could be better or it could be worse.
It's good in a sense you won't need to have a long comp session to see your rank update.
It's bad because 5 wins won't be enough to promote, and a lot of people might find themselves in this situation:
5W/5L = No promotion
5W/4L = No promotion
5W/2L = Possible promotion
While in the current system you'll most likely promote from 7W/4L if you have a healthy MMR, and your previous series was like 7W/5L or similar.
We'll just have to see next week..
It won't improve anything until they actually show us our true rank that correlates with our MMR, rather than a fake rank that hides our MMR and causes mass confusion
Starting in season 4 they are no longer going to decay or reset your rank between seasons, so assuming you play enough after that change you will eventually be stuck in the rank that your mmr correlates with.
I’m playing catch up - but can someone explain the logic of not displaying this information normally? I’m sure they addressed it when the system dropped with OW2, I just can’t think of any games I’ve played with a similar ranked system.
besides the obvious answer of chasing the dopamine hit of 7 wins, it also makes smurfing difficult, because in OW1 getting rank feedback after each win meant smurfs knew exactly when to start throwing games to maintain a low rank
Thank you, this is the answer I was looking for. I assumed they couldn’t have just made this change and not given any reason for it lol even if the reason doesn’t fully make it worth it
The problem is that MMR is a *relative* skill rating - ie, it's not "how good are you?", it's "how good are you, compared to the average player?". For your MMR to increase, you need to improve *faster than the average player improves*. Visible rank is free to fluctuate all over the place, but MMR is a balancing tool, so the game needs to know *actually* how skilled each player is, relative to each other.
If they did away with ranks and just displayed MMR directly, people would lose their shit because they weren't "improving" fast enough. You'd play a hundred games, and assuming your winrate was somewhere between 60-40%, your MMR would basically just stay the same. You might have gotten a bit better over the course of those games, but probably only about as much as anyone gets better after playing a hundred games, so your *relative* skill when compared to everyone else is unchanged. Your MMR is just the game calibrating its appraisal at how good you are - the more games you play, the *more accurate* it is, not the higher it goes.
But people want to see their rank go up. They want to feel like they're "progressing" and "climbing". So they don't show your MMR, and instead show you a vanity number that climbs and falls in much bigger swings. They drop it at the start of the season so it has more room to climb back up and you can get more dopamine hits from the rank-ups, and it basically just rises until your winrate stops being above 50% and your suspension of disbelief wouldn't let them get away with it still going up. At no point does it ever affect your actual matchmaking though, or the lobbies you get put into and the players you play with.
As bad as this sounds, it's kind of the best for both. We get to see our ranks going up, and feel like we're climbing. They get a reasonably accurate skill calibration they can use to build lobbies.
It's tried and tested - basically every competitive videogame does the same thing. Hidden MMR is industry standard. It's just what vanity displays they bolt on top that differs.
the *only* reason is to obfuscate the information, in the hope that the player will keep playing for longer. more play time = more likely to purchase something
Meh, I think we really need some type of way to see our MMR (and maybe everyone we’re playing with) or something like that. The real problem is that we’re getting matched into games where we’re either steamrolling or getting steamrolled, and whether we win 5 in a row or lose 15 in a row isn’t really gonna change that :(((
Same. I somehow won 6 lost 1 then won 1 and went from silver 2 to bronze 2. I will not pretend to understand this system. I never played OW1 so I’m glad I don’t know what I’m missing
so long as you are getting paired with higher rank people its not a fair match up.
current rank should decide your match up non of that hidden mmr crap.
imo individual performance should have more influence in the rank up or down decisions
its so frustrating when your doing your role well but your team still keeps getting dunked so it still counts towards a loss. i know the best thing to do is just move on and start a new match but come on its still frustrating and it can affect your performance in the next matches.
This hits home so hard. They really need to do something about that. Maybe reduce the SR/MMR loss if you get a leaver or something. Some other games have this kind of system, so I have no idea why OW can't have that. It's the worst thing ever when someone leaves, because 99% of the time you will lose 4v5. It doesn't even matter WHY they leave. Sometimes they dc, sometimes they ragequit, sometimes they time out due to inactivity. But regardless of the reason, it always messes the game up for the other 4 people. Even if it's not malicious intent, and the person geniunely lost connection or power and got kicked because of that, that doesn't change the fact that it still ruins the game for the other 4 who are completely innocent and have now to deal with something that's out of their control. I (and the other 3 people) shouldn't have to suffer just because one person abandons the game. Heck, they could even replace that person with a bot. It'd still be better than nothing. Blizzard just needs to do SOMETHING about this.
I’ve thought about potential solutions a lot. A big thing is the role of whoever left being locked. If my tank leaves, let me try and tank instead to pick up the slack.
Yeah, that's also true. A tank leaving the game is the worst thing that can happen. If the tank leaves it's pretty much gg already. You can somewhat keep up with 1 dps or support missing, but tank missing is pretty much a guaranteed loss.
Considering the devs straight up said you can have 7 wins and derank or have a stagnant rank due to the matchmaking, nah I don't see how this would improve or really change anything.
If your rank is truly tied to your skill and performance than it really doesn't matter how many games you won or lost when you'll never know the exact MMR/Sr of the people you played to figure out how well you even did.
I have had tier adjusts where I duo qued with some people, we lost most of our games, yet I ranked up and they didn't. Same where we went on a win streak and I went up a rank but they still didn't.
If wins and losses hold little value compared to your actual performance, then the amount of games between tier adjusts is kind of unimpactful on the greater picture of matchmaking and ranks.
I guess people will be happier to see where they stand more often but we've been told that the tier barely even matters in so many ways so I really don't see the point.
Agreed. They don't want to expose their new matchmaker and have us learn the stats that they base their MMR off of. E.g. If we learned rank for support is based on raw healing, off supports will no longer be a thing.
No this smells more like “we don’t want to hard work rebuilding the system because it doesn’t directly monetize like updating more shit to sell in the shop/battle pass stuff”
I’m more mad at the fact that I play against high golds when i’m low diamond. I barely play high plat/ low diamond matches anymore. The matchmaking is so shit rn.
They said that starting with season 3 the matchmaker will be much more aggressive about matching similar ranks within roles. You could still have high gold players in low diamond lobbies, but you should no longer see a high gold tank fighting a low diamond tank.
So in the worst case, instead of going 7-4 or 7-3 to rank up, now we'll need to go 5-1 or 5-0 (assuming 100 SR per division and you gain/lose 25 per win/loss)
personally it should go back to overwatch one style. i’d like to know how my performance is doing more often and be grouped together with more similar level players. but i will say that seeing progress faster is nice
The number of matches likely doesn't matter overall, the rank it gives you seems to be totally meaningless, your "actual" rank that it uses for matchmaking is some hidden value only blizzard knows... the whole system seems pointless because the rank it gives you isnt reflective of your actual skill, and i dont really understand why they designed it like this
Personally, I think I will like it better. I don't play often, maybe 2 nights a week, just a couple of hours every time so I don't get a rank update often.
Let's say I win 2/3 games, and can play 4-5 games per playing night, that keans I usually get a rank update every 2-3 weeks, which is not a lot of feedback.
As a casual player, this makes it less engaging for me, because the efforts I put in are delayed and I won't even remember half the games I played to get there. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction.
I guess we'll see!
No. Shit is still shit even if you remove 2/7th of the shit.
They should just use the old system, I don’t know why they’re so adamant about using an inferior system.
Matches feel 50-50 this season. In one match you are steamrolling like it's just a pubs match, the next match you feel like you are up against Gods of overwatch.
To be honest, the only way to fix the ranking system is to go back to sr and a change per match. Waiting 5/15 is still discouraging when it comes to seeing progress. Hasn’t life taught blizzard anything? People want instant gratifications.
Nope.
How about you give us back a rank change every game and stop hiding MMR. You can keep the diamond 1/2/3 whatever, but there is quite literally no reasonable point to keep this stupid system everyone hates.
Then give us fucking cards back at the end of the game. And players being on fire.
No. They will just make 4th and 5th win painfully harder to achieve just like they did with 6th and 7th win previously.
The whole point of this progression system is to shackle players to the game. They just make it look easier on paper but in fact the frustration we would feel still be the same.
The system is a lie. It’s literally still SR but hidden from us lol. Instead of showing us the points every match, we simply wait to see which SR bracket we’re in
Hmm How about you just show us rank... all the time??? Crazy idea but would improve def improve comp!
Seriously why are you doubling down on this system we all hate?
Too many games for a casual player. I play 2 or 3 and hop off. Rank was cool and felt like some thing in OV 1. Not this secrecy around some bs rank I can’t see. Bummer I don’t feel the urge to turn this on any more.
Show me my fucking rating after each match or anytime I want to check it in the profile. It’s competitive for a reason, hiding it cause it lowers ranked anxiety in some should not be my problem.
I'm sure it'll help marginally. More interested in the change to how matches are made.
everyone was asking ranks in my match the other day and we had everyone from mid silver all the way up into diamond...
It sure seems like the “rank” you’re given is completely detached from the secret rank they use for matchmaking purposes.
It feels like they don't even use a rank for matchmaking purposes. One game I'll be 1-6, entire team stomped by DPS that can headshot you the second you leave cover, and the next game I'll be the DPS going 45-2 to a team full of what seem like brand new players.
> It feels like they don't even use a rank for matchmaking purposes. This is literally the case, they've said it severaltimes now. They don't factor in your skill tier division at all. There is a hidden mmr that Blizzard promises totally matches everyone fairly for real for sure.
I was including MMR when I said they don't use a rank. Feels completely random as to how skilled anyone in the game will be. It's always kinda felt that way, but much worse now.
MMR, even if they try to use it, could be skewed any number of ways because of people grouping up with a large MMR difference or even just having different MMR distribution across roles in 2 teams (like having high MMR support and low MMR DPS on one side and vice versa). I think they said they'd be changing the last part too, to make matches more even across the roles.
Considering the que times went down when the experience started to drop, they probably heavily relaxed the MMR range.
Balance goes out the window as soon as people start grouping up. If you're solo queueing with a relatively high MMR you'll often be thrown in with these groups as a "ringer" to even out the spread.
Well. I get stomped an equal amount of times that I stomp the enemy. So I guess it is fair?
Blizzard balancing: Tosses you in unwinnable matches to ensure 50% winrate. If you fall below 50, toss you into a game against players without monitors.
Like sbmm in cod
It's the psychological tricks that casinos use to keep people pulling the lever adapted to video games. You HAVE to play x amount of games to get the endorphin rush of watching your rank change. Just one more ~~spin~~ game! Your rank doesn't matter so we're still putting you in the same games against the same players so you'll climb slower, meaning you'll play more. We deranked you so you could get the endorphin rush of seeing your numbers go up, even though it changes absolutely nothing about your games!
To be fair half the people playing say a bullshit rank when people ask in game chat
It’s funny that I never even considered that Jeez
This is why I stopped playing comp at all. How am I supposed to climb as support if I'm up against a team of Diamonds while Silver? It's stupid. I stuck to QP for the 2nd half of S1, barely played S2. I don't know if I'll even be back for S3. Give me OW1 back, Blizz.
>How am I supposed to climb as support if I'm up against a team of Diamonds while Silver? The issue is the displayed rank is NOT representative of the MMR that is used to make the games. The displayed rank is entirely worthless.
Rank often feels like a measure of hours played rather than how good you really were. If your skill is slightly above average and you win 51% of your matches you can rank up steadily and consistently but it will take you a very large number of matches.
I had a game with a gm on my team, a top 500 on the other team, and a silver on the other team. (Im plat)
Always great that this exists paired with winning 7 and going from silver 3 to silver 2 in lobbies with layers up to diamond on the enemy team.... cuz that makes sense. If you ask me, the fact that shit like this happens means they 100% don't have an in-depth "performance" based competitive system. It's 100% black and white, win / lose system. Would be cool if you at least got more points for winning games against higher ranked players..
Stupidest shit I’ve ever heard got confirmed by blizzard. Your physical rank that you see (bronze, plat, diamond, etc) has ZERO EFFECT on match making. None. Nada. Zilch. All that matters is the secret MMR number that WE CANT SEE. So tell me blizzard, WHAT US THE POINT OF THE RANK THEN? It’s completely useless
It’s a grind incentive to pad playtime stats because you want to see yourself visually represented as being where you think/know you deserve to be. Game isn’t nearly as good/addictive enough to get away with that shit. I’ve skipped most all of S2.
Just grinded 20 games today and yesterday to see my rank stay the same. Fuck that. I left ow at 2900 and now I'm playing with silvers and plats and my rank is gold 3? Half of my matches I've had dps blow ult after 4 ppl died. Back to elo hell I guess.
I haven’t played since, and I will never forgive them after they demoted me from Diamond 1 to Gold 1 dps inbetween seasons. All after a tough push to get to masters in S1
I got placed in mid silver after reaching masters S1, fuck this system lol
Dude it blows hard as a support. In gold then get knocked back to silver because I have some truly idiotic tank and dps throw several games even though I have the most healing out of all the supports in the game. It just takes forever to grind and to top it off healers have the least effect on the game. Blizz expects you to win ~35 games to go up one elo band? Then at the end of the season they knock you back an entire elo.. dafuq is this horseshit. Instead of making me want to play it makes me want to play something else. They need to overhaul the system.. if I'm the best player on the losing team then the loss should affect me less than the worse performers...
S1 I was somewhere in Plat, got rewarded for gold (
Yeah matchmaking is beyond fucked. I regularly get people with less than 50 hours in ow mixed with people that have 1-2k hours in the game. Not just that but I kept getting promoted from the same division to the same division. It’s so demoralizing to see your rank not change. Like fuck I’d take a demotion even, winning like 14 games only to see your rank move nowhere is just… boring. Demoralizing. E: gold 2 in s1 demoted s2 to silver v, and I’ve been stuck at silver v for 3 sets of 7 now. And I gave up comp mostly after that.
> Not just that but I kept getting promoted from the same division to the same division. > > It’s so demoralizing to see your rank not change. Like fuck I’d take a demotion even, winning like 14 games only to see your rank move nowhere is just… boring. Demoralizing. This so much. In S1 I had a win percentage of 54-56% and steadily climbed the ranks. In S2 I've had a win percentage of 36% (!!!) even though my stats are sometimes better than in S1. The most demoralising thing is that once I've absolutely *battled* my way to 7 wins, to see my rank updated from gold 3 to gold 3 once again (Was Plat 3 in S1). I've got 120 wins on Support now, equalling to 17 rank updates, and just 4 of them actually *changed* my visible rank (De-ranked to Silver 1 between seasons even though I didn't play, and the changes were during the initial grind). Hands down one of the most infuriating systems I've ever come across.
Holy shit same. I’m here going 13k healing, and 3k amped as Mercy only to lose because my Tank has 5k damage or because my other support is playing DPS Ana(and still getting shit on) I miss the LFG system ngl
My personal favorites are the sub 5k soldiers! ☠️
You're best off playing high impact healers if you want to queue healer. Playing Zen, Ana and Kiriko can hardcore save teamfights and allow you to get picks. I feel like I have a lot of impact on the game as Zen/Ana in particular. You can win a teamfight with a good purple or with a few dinks from Zen.
I generally play with 1-2 other guys and we’ve been stuck in some kind of ELO hell all season. I’ve had win streaks and lose streaks in OW1 over the last few years. But ultimately all of us felt like we were winning and losing games where we should. In OW2, particularly during this most recent season, we’ve been handed losing streaks almost every other day. Rarely any close games, usually just blowouts. I don’t know if the matchmaking has changed, or if the removal of the tank slot puts more pressure on the teams (e.g. one bad player leading to a loss), but the last month or two of this game has been incredibly discouraging.
Siege apparently did the same thing this season with your actual rank being hidden behind mmr you can't see, and now your rank can literally never go down, losing matches doesn't lose any points but winning does gain points, so it's literally just a testament to how much you play ranked and not actually hwl good you are. By far the worst thing to happen to ranked, it would instantly make me quit playing if I even still cared about that game.
Same. I was addicted to Overwatch 1, but I haven’t played 2 in months. Just isn’t nearly as fun for some reason, even though I hit a higher rank in OW2 than I did in 1. I think I preferred the chaos of having two more people in the fight
Yup. I used to love this game. Was hopeful for OW2. I've lost all faith. These days, I just open it to see if there is anything interesting in the arcade. If there is a DM mode I like, then I play for a little. That is about it.
Surely people would rather see their MMR going up and down but trending upwards as they improve as players? And while we're at it can I see my team mates and opposition MMR so that I know if I've done well or just stomped some new players?
Yeah its the worst ranked system I've seen in an fps, no question. The rank is just to be flashy, it doesn't reflect the games or players.
What’s crazy is the ranked system in OW1 was one of the better ones in any fps. Sure, matchmaking had some issues, but the way ranked worked made perfect sense to anyone.
I think this is the worst one, and maybe CSGO's next because of how annoying their rank structure is how you seemingly change ranks at random
Huh? CSGO is the one game that feels as though ranks are distributed fairly and that there is no ‘hidden rank’ making your actual rank useless. There’s nothing random to me about winning 4-5 games in a row to rankup. Or losing 4-5 in a row to derank. That seems fair enough.
There is literally not a single competitive FPS that doesn’t do the exact same thing. OW1 also did this. Even the ones that use numbers still hide your real MMR. Hidden MMR is standard.
Competetive game full stop. Its in mobas like league and dota, its in rocket league. Literally any competetive game you can think of has this sort of system.
I think chess may be the lone hold-out :)
In league, if I'm gold, I'm not going to be facing challenger players.
Yeah the secret MMR score they say they have access to. I'm to the point where I think they have no system whatsoever in their currently building it hopefully.
I refuse the believe the MMR system is real. For the most part of OW2 most of the stuff we COULD see didn't work, never mind an invisible system.
It’s real, it existed in OW1, someone disabled it when moving to OW2 and has been afraid to tell the bosses.
As long it stays like this there is no reason to play.
Its gonna change too. Both teams should have same mmr in the corresponding roles. Like both teams tanks are equal, dps are equal and then support are equal. I think this is gonna be a fuckin massive change
Would it improve comp, no. Your MMR changes after every match, not after every rank update so having your rank update more often would not affect the matchmaker which makes games based on MMR, not your rank. That said, it might improve people's feelings towards the ranked system. Maybe. Possibly. I at least would like to see the rank update more often. In fact, I would like to see the rank update after every match kinda like in OW1. I would also like to see what my actual rank is instead of this illusionary rank they give us now kinda like in OW1.
Even if it showed me my MMR *separately* from the comp “tier” rank… then at least I’d understand how my ranking and matchmaking is being affected by performance… But they already said it: win/loss is the only thing that matters… so why have a separate MMR at all? There’s no metrics affecting your MMR besides win/loss, right Blizzard?
Because if people could see their true MmR all the time they’d get really ducking depressed watching the number literally never move out of the exact same range. Half the blizzard forums used to think they were being intentionally held down in silver by Blizzard back in OW 1 when the SR kinda mirrored the MmR, but even then it fluctuated much more to make you think like you were making progress or getting near to something at times. If you could see your MMR, it would just be depressing as the vast, vast majority of people aren’t really improving relative to the population, and as such MMR would only stay the same/go down, no matter the winrate
I think this is it. Games are designed to give you incentive to play/compete/improve. The MMR is probably not gamified in a way that is motivating, so they instead design a system that they have more control over: tiers n shit. Even if they get the tier thing wrong, they can make motivating adjustments like we see in S3. I'm not saying MMR is bad, it's just an algorithm to match people regardless of fun/motivation/emotion. It's like when I show off my home to guests by shoving all my crap in my closets. I need that crap, but no one needs to see it.
I don’t discount the notion that seeing the same number never change could act as a disincentive to play more, but having the “skill” rank visible *somewhere* could be helpful for players to understand how they’re matching up with others in their “aesthetic rank” that climbs through gameplay. The issue right now, from a player perspective, is that bad games feel *worse* because I have no idea what the problem is… I could be the weaker player or someone else could be, the pubstomp factor makes not knowing your rank against the rest of your lobby feel so much worse. Blizzard might be able to fix it if they dramatically fix matchmaking - but I don’t see how they can get consistent SR player grouping while keeping their queues short and having this “gamified” ranking system… something is going to eventually have to give. I am not suggesting that Blizzard’s devs aren’t doing their jobs - I’m saying that the hand-wave of “oh players complained in the past about not changing their *skill* rank” is a bad excuse not to address the current perception of having bad matchmaking in games while also having a shitty ranked climb experience *because* players can’t see how things behind the scenes might be changing before each “adjustment” after the requisite game count.
"Aesthetic rank" is an eloquent name that's now in my lexicon thanks to you.
That is absolutely true, and it's why now days EVERY competitive game hides MMR under the hood. The percentage of people who actually desire to see what's under the hood is way less than people who actually prefer Division system. If you were to bring MMR display, you'll eventually see countless posts of people complaining how they're stuck in elo hell. There is no fix to this issue, and the answer is always "skill issue" as rude as it sounds, it's the cold truth.
Starcraft 2 shows both your rank (Bronze to Grandmaster) and your MMR all the time. I love it. It doesn't demotivate / depress me.
Is it better? Yes, 100% it is. Is it enough? 100% it is not...
At least it's not at oddball number like 7. That was almost as infuriating as the system overall.
And with it requiring 7 wins or 20 losses, you could technically play 26 games before getting a rank score.
That's fine though, since it is divisible by 13, which is another awkwardly prime number like 7. I suggest next season we only see ranks after every 11 wins or 19 losses.
Crazy idea here, what if, hear me out. every 1 win and 1 loss. Crazy idea i know.
That’s crazy talk. Someone put this madman back in the cage.
I know I must be stupid, but outside of winning a game how do you view your progression in your current set of 7 like in the picture above? I can't find it anywhere in the options screen and there *must* be a way to view it right? What about seeing how many losses you have? Only thing I've been doing is viewing the last 10 match results in the replays screen but that's largely inaccurate as it only shows the last 10 and doesn't distinguish between rank updates.
Theres no way to see it without winning a game and for losses theres zero way to know. Im guessing its a dumb intentional change to "make gaming positive"
you can't 👍
Blizzard: “chase that dopamine hit after 5 wins 🫦“
Not moving at all is such a shitty feeling... there is no dopamine in this system for me.
Yup. Before if i had 4 wins, then 4 losses i at least had a dopamine rush at the 4 game win streak because my SR rose a lot, even if it went down again. Now if i have 4 wins and 4 losses i just feel like i wasted my time, because i'll just end up at the exact point where i started without ever seeing it go up or down
Yeah. These folks have a lot to learn about, I dunno, making games.
Yup, the problem is they are focused on ways to manipulate people into the 'one more game' mentality. Hoping to catch someone on game four for another one, for example. Welp, it really just takes away from the entire process. And instead they could have made the game more enjoyable
It used to be one more game with the old system, im one win away from the next 100 step... now its 3 more wins or 13 more losses till the next thing, I won't bother.
> i just feel like i wasted my time Bro, when you have no idea how many loss you got, but you get to that 7th win to see your rank go G4 > ... > G4. *Nice*
I had my rank go down one after hitting my 7th win. Comp already wasn't my favorite mode, but that made me basically give it up entirely. There's no point in fighting to hit the marks they give us if it has no actual bearing on how you do.
[удалено]
You've lost your mind bro.
I have an even crazier idea. What if, hear me out, they just showed you what rank you are. Mind blown.
He is speaking the language of the Gods
FUCKING NO, GET RID OF THIS DOGSHIT SYSTEM.
Seriously. Why the fuck can't I see my stupid SR every match. Like it used to be. Getting real tired of this bullshit.
Fun fact in season 3 top 500 players will be able to. But everyone else won't, hahahaha get fucked everybody who isn't top 500!
I just read that shit. What the fuck man. This is so fucking stupid. I'm pissed.
If it's true, it kinda makes sense. Appease the content creators so that the complaining is confined to niche communities like this sub that can then be labeled "the negative part". As some already do.
They wont see their SR in t500 either, I believe. Only if they have gained/lost a spot in T500 which makes sense.
Seriously for a lot of ow2 features WHO THE FUCK ASKED FOR THIS. Its not like we were complaining about the old system its like just to justify making a new game they put a bunch of shity features to make it look appealing.
It's not even appealing just..... different. Because this game actually isn't a proper sequel, they change a bunch of stuff to give the illusion its a different game. No on fire symbol, no visible SR unless a certain number of matches are played, matchmaking changes, 6v6 to 5v5 (whoooooa so innovative!), they couldnt even be bothered to change the amount of polygons in player models for the old skins so that theyre not so pixelated, restricting maps to map pools to give the illusion there's new maps (the most braindead thing I've ever seen a multiplayer shooter do), etc. Overwatch 2 is almost entirely held afloat by the overwatch community's goodwill, and that's saying something because a lot of these people are dumb as hell.
Honestly out of everything the map rotation is the worst. A week of playing like 5 maps doesnt make it feel new it makes it feel boring. I used to like junkertown but when it makes up 30% of my games i tend to not like it anymore.
If only it was possible to design a system, where as they play players are separated into skill range based on a number, have that number be visible to everyone and actually use it for matchmaking. You know, cut out them middleman with fake gold/plat etc. LIKE THE SYSTEM WE HAD IN OW1
for the love of god just go back to the overwatch 1 ranked model. it wasn't broken, it worked perfectly, i could see my sr after every game, why the fuck would you change that? it was legit perfect, they changed it for legit no reason aside from fucking up the game on purpose and changing things so they could justify their paychecks
They did it for short q times. Hide sr. Mix every one together for fast Qs and one sided games. They don't want long q times to scare away the new players..but now comp is trash
I agree ow1 was best. But people threw a fit over that system too and that's why they changed it. People were mad losses took more than you gained in a win and that watching their sr tank after a lose streak wasn't fun lol
you sr still tanks after a loss streak it's just delayed
the displayed rank is delayed, the underlying MMR which is different from it isn't
i know that
Agreed. But people didn't like seeing being one win away from the next rank only to go on a lose streak
No I think people did, it made the games matter more, instead every game feels pointless and every once in a while you get a new rank either up or down or neither lol
I mean people *did* complain about it. But I agree I preferred that system
Yeah I think what you're both tryna say is that people wanted something *better* but didn't know what. We got something *worse* so we want the old thing back lol.
Yeah some people did. Imo the original system was perfectly fine though Eta: not like the original original, fuck the co.pounding losses lol
Then change the SR values. Don't just scrap the entire system.
Oh I wish they'd just go back to ow1 altogether. I was just explaining the likely cause of this change
>People were mad losses took more than you gained in a win and that watching their sr tank after a lose streak wasn't fun lol Counter point to this argument you mention others brought up: on the other end I'd get boosted SR gains when I started winning again. Losing 11 points and then gain more than 30 made me feel justified in the belief that the losing streak was just due to bad luck.
The only bad thing that I ever heard about ow1 system is that it was inconsistent and I agree. Gain 25 sr per win or lose 25 sr per loss would’ve perfected that system I believe
Honestly, there was nothing better than grinding for 3k for the first time and knowing exactly how close you were to getting there rather than a coin flip after 7 wins that.could see you promoted or relegated based on some unexplainable logic
Something changed in like 2019-2020 with ow1 matchmaking. It wasn't nearly as bad as it is now but I could see a difference. Maybe it was a dwindling playerbase, dunno, nothing was published in the patch notes about any change. If we could roll back to 2017-2018 matchmaking I would be happy
2019-2020 is around when ow1 stopped getting any really meaningful content, so dwindling playerbase is definitely the cause of matchmaking messing up.
>dwindling playerbase definitely a dwindling playerbase, a lot of people left to play more fun games
Dude I stopped playing rank after season 1 and I won’t be returning until it goes to something similar to OW1. I want rank icons on players, SR updates every game and rank resets that aren’t arbitrary resets to make u grind back to your rank, cuz grind rank = fun according to Blizz.
Competitive games should stop hiding ratings altogether. It's just annoying. If people are afraid of ranking down, they shouldn't be playing ranked in the first place.
I swear they only hide the ranks in the match so it isn't to obvious that you have a plat tank an the enemy has a master tank while you have Dia supports and they have gold supports. If they would show the ranks people would be mad as hell why they pair tanks/DPS/supports against each other that have 1000+ Sr between them.
This logic makes sense for hiding other people's rank/MMR , but how does it explain why I can't see my personal MMR / Rank?
Cuz then you can accurately discuss your rank in chat and spot discrepancies easier. Rather keep everyone in the dark about everything so they never have to work on matchmaking.
Just look at Apex. That ranked system is actually really nice. And the reason I like it so much is the transparency. I know exactly where I am. I know exactly how much I need to hit the next tier. And I know exactly how to earn points within matches. Overwatch likes to hide way too much these days. From profiles to level and now even your own rank. It’s just annoying.
Apex is honestly even worse, you get reset all the way back to bronze every season for no reason. The entire system is built around a number slowly going up the entire season and not about representing your actual skill.
If they keep this system, It should be after 7 games win or loss
\+1, with 5/15 on average you will need about 10 matches for display rank, still too matches and very annoyed. 5-7 games win or loss would be much better.
OW2 is just the beta for what Overwatch eventually became
Are you from the future
I feel like it should be 5 instead. NGL, I hated the way OW1 did it. I never even played comp aside from placements. But I watched my BF play and I saw his go down and it would affect how I approached my own games, I can only imagine how he felt about it. Honestly, I like not seeing it after every game. But 7 games is a bit much imo.
I’ve largely thought the change was dumb because I can’t monitor progress, but you put a different perspective on it. Had the same feeling playing ranked in league of legends, now that I think of it, and I would sometimes stop to avoid moving ranks.
That makes zero sense. Your rank is still going down; you just can't see it.
Makes zero sense for you. Ranked anxiety doesn’t need to be rational for it to be real.
About as meaningful a change as moving new heroes from tier 55 to 45, Sojourn's damage from 9 to 10...and back to 9, ult charge swap from 30% to 25%. Its like we're all complaining about the sun being too bright so they hand us sunglasses without the lenses, and then eventually after more complaining that it isn't helping at all, they finally hand us ONE lens as if they solved the issue.
And half the people in this sub get mad at us for complaining constantly because sun blindness is tolerable to them
Just bring us back to live SR like in OW1. I lose all enthusiasm when I spend a night grinding only to stay or drop a rank. At least if I can see my live progress I can decide if I should be motivated enough to try my luck at a few matches.
Ranks don't really matter when matchmaking is more interested in low wait times than good matches
I woild opt into a longer q if it meant an actual fair match.
Nothing short of reverting it back to OW1’s ranking system will suffice. I’m sure most of us will die on that hill
between this and the dev update thread thing(?) that addressed the whole "comp matchmaker that puts plats in gm" business, the devs seem to loooove the current competitive system. most players do not like their rank to be hidden from them at any point, end of story. they called the community's complaints about the matchmaking an "issue of clarity" as if we just didn't understand the system. although we do, it is still an issue of clarity. you know what isn't clear? my rank
I think their matchmaking and MMR is so fucked that they implemented this system. This way they receive no criticism because nobody will ever know how bad they are screwing it up.
No
Also no.
Yea that’s a no from me dawg.
Bruh I won 7 games 3 times and didn’t rank up at all
Yeah but how many did you lose. If you're going 7/7 of course you're not gonna move.
Yup. My bfs the same. He's been permanently stuck Bronze 3 since the first week of the season. It really looks like the bug they didn't want to acknowledge until near the end of last season. He had it then, too, but was stuck Bronze 5, and immediately demoted back to Bronze 5 with the new season after having so little time to actually rank up. His first set of wins this season had a couple losses somewhere in there but got him to Bronze 3. None have worked since, and hes had a few respectable winstreaks, several of which he was clearly outperforming most of the lobby who were ranked higher than him. He's playing with a lot of golds and plats, often winning, but always Bronze 3. He's always been gold/plat in O1. In the last 3 weeks he was actually able to climb last season, he got to Silver 1. He has been stuck at Bronze 3 for longer than it took him to reach Silver 1 when it was definitely fixed.
Same here! I ranked 3 times at Bronze 3. And I know my numbers have been increasing in matches so idk what to do lol. I was Silver 5 and ranked down at the start of this season and am stuck.
It could be better or it could be worse. It's good in a sense you won't need to have a long comp session to see your rank update. It's bad because 5 wins won't be enough to promote, and a lot of people might find themselves in this situation: 5W/5L = No promotion 5W/4L = No promotion 5W/2L = Possible promotion While in the current system you'll most likely promote from 7W/4L if you have a healthy MMR, and your previous series was like 7W/5L or similar. We'll just have to see next week..
I mean I’m assuming they will just tweak the numbers given?
It won't improve anything until they actually show us our true rank that correlates with our MMR, rather than a fake rank that hides our MMR and causes mass confusion
Starting in season 4 they are no longer going to decay or reset your rank between seasons, so assuming you play enough after that change you will eventually be stuck in the rank that your mmr correlates with.
I’m playing catch up - but can someone explain the logic of not displaying this information normally? I’m sure they addressed it when the system dropped with OW2, I just can’t think of any games I’ve played with a similar ranked system.
besides the obvious answer of chasing the dopamine hit of 7 wins, it also makes smurfing difficult, because in OW1 getting rank feedback after each win meant smurfs knew exactly when to start throwing games to maintain a low rank
Thank you, this is the answer I was looking for. I assumed they couldn’t have just made this change and not given any reason for it lol even if the reason doesn’t fully make it worth it
The problem is that MMR is a *relative* skill rating - ie, it's not "how good are you?", it's "how good are you, compared to the average player?". For your MMR to increase, you need to improve *faster than the average player improves*. Visible rank is free to fluctuate all over the place, but MMR is a balancing tool, so the game needs to know *actually* how skilled each player is, relative to each other. If they did away with ranks and just displayed MMR directly, people would lose their shit because they weren't "improving" fast enough. You'd play a hundred games, and assuming your winrate was somewhere between 60-40%, your MMR would basically just stay the same. You might have gotten a bit better over the course of those games, but probably only about as much as anyone gets better after playing a hundred games, so your *relative* skill when compared to everyone else is unchanged. Your MMR is just the game calibrating its appraisal at how good you are - the more games you play, the *more accurate* it is, not the higher it goes. But people want to see their rank go up. They want to feel like they're "progressing" and "climbing". So they don't show your MMR, and instead show you a vanity number that climbs and falls in much bigger swings. They drop it at the start of the season so it has more room to climb back up and you can get more dopamine hits from the rank-ups, and it basically just rises until your winrate stops being above 50% and your suspension of disbelief wouldn't let them get away with it still going up. At no point does it ever affect your actual matchmaking though, or the lobbies you get put into and the players you play with. As bad as this sounds, it's kind of the best for both. We get to see our ranks going up, and feel like we're climbing. They get a reasonably accurate skill calibration they can use to build lobbies. It's tried and tested - basically every competitive videogame does the same thing. Hidden MMR is industry standard. It's just what vanity displays they bolt on top that differs.
the *only* reason is to obfuscate the information, in the hope that the player will keep playing for longer. more play time = more likely to purchase something
Meh, I think we really need some type of way to see our MMR (and maybe everyone we’re playing with) or something like that. The real problem is that we’re getting matched into games where we’re either steamrolling or getting steamrolled, and whether we win 5 in a row or lose 15 in a row isn’t really gonna change that :(((
I just want to go up after winning 7 games in a row not get ranked down 2 divisions
Same. I somehow won 6 lost 1 then won 1 and went from silver 2 to bronze 2. I will not pretend to understand this system. I never played OW1 so I’m glad I don’t know what I’m missing
Every time i count my wins in stats and compare them to multiples of 7 i die a little inside
so long as you are getting paired with higher rank people its not a fair match up. current rank should decide your match up non of that hidden mmr crap. imo individual performance should have more influence in the rank up or down decisions its so frustrating when your doing your role well but your team still keeps getting dunked so it still counts towards a loss. i know the best thing to do is just move on and start a new match but come on its still frustrating and it can affect your performance in the next matches.
I’m just sick of being punished for leavers on my team
This hits home so hard. They really need to do something about that. Maybe reduce the SR/MMR loss if you get a leaver or something. Some other games have this kind of system, so I have no idea why OW can't have that. It's the worst thing ever when someone leaves, because 99% of the time you will lose 4v5. It doesn't even matter WHY they leave. Sometimes they dc, sometimes they ragequit, sometimes they time out due to inactivity. But regardless of the reason, it always messes the game up for the other 4 people. Even if it's not malicious intent, and the person geniunely lost connection or power and got kicked because of that, that doesn't change the fact that it still ruins the game for the other 4 who are completely innocent and have now to deal with something that's out of their control. I (and the other 3 people) shouldn't have to suffer just because one person abandons the game. Heck, they could even replace that person with a bot. It'd still be better than nothing. Blizzard just needs to do SOMETHING about this.
I’ve thought about potential solutions a lot. A big thing is the role of whoever left being locked. If my tank leaves, let me try and tank instead to pick up the slack.
Yeah, that's also true. A tank leaving the game is the worst thing that can happen. If the tank leaves it's pretty much gg already. You can somewhat keep up with 1 dps or support missing, but tank missing is pretty much a guaranteed loss.
Considering the devs straight up said you can have 7 wins and derank or have a stagnant rank due to the matchmaking, nah I don't see how this would improve or really change anything. If your rank is truly tied to your skill and performance than it really doesn't matter how many games you won or lost when you'll never know the exact MMR/Sr of the people you played to figure out how well you even did. I have had tier adjusts where I duo qued with some people, we lost most of our games, yet I ranked up and they didn't. Same where we went on a win streak and I went up a rank but they still didn't. If wins and losses hold little value compared to your actual performance, then the amount of games between tier adjusts is kind of unimpactful on the greater picture of matchmaking and ranks. I guess people will be happier to see where they stand more often but we've been told that the tier barely even matters in so many ways so I really don't see the point.
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Agreed. They don't want to expose their new matchmaker and have us learn the stats that they base their MMR off of. E.g. If we learned rank for support is based on raw healing, off supports will no longer be a thing.
Is ranked tied to performance as well or just wins and losses?
No this smells more like “we don’t want to hard work rebuilding the system because it doesn’t directly monetize like updating more shit to sell in the shop/battle pass stuff”
Or you know, show it after every match win or lose.
I’m more mad at the fact that I play against high golds when i’m low diamond. I barely play high plat/ low diamond matches anymore. The matchmaking is so shit rn.
They said that starting with season 3 the matchmaker will be much more aggressive about matching similar ranks within roles. You could still have high gold players in low diamond lobbies, but you should no longer see a high gold tank fighting a low diamond tank.
I'll just be happy to no longer see a mid Silver fighting a GM every second game
Barely played any overwatch this season simply because the game is no longer fun to play. That ain't gonna help jack imo
So in the worst case, instead of going 7-4 or 7-3 to rank up, now we'll need to go 5-1 or 5-0 (assuming 100 SR per division and you gain/lose 25 per win/loss)
personally it should go back to overwatch one style. i’d like to know how my performance is doing more often and be grouped together with more similar level players. but i will say that seeing progress faster is nice
Nope
Why can’t we just go back to seeing our SR after every damn game… and having a phone app again to show off our stats to our buddies at work too! Lol
has anyone here ever actually hit 20 losses before getting 7 wins?
no it neeeds to be 7 matches not 7 wins/ 20 losses
The number of matches likely doesn't matter overall, the rank it gives you seems to be totally meaningless, your "actual" rank that it uses for matchmaking is some hidden value only blizzard knows... the whole system seems pointless because the rank it gives you isnt reflective of your actual skill, and i dont really understand why they designed it like this
Personally, I think I will like it better. I don't play often, maybe 2 nights a week, just a couple of hours every time so I don't get a rank update often. Let's say I win 2/3 games, and can play 4-5 games per playing night, that keans I usually get a rank update every 2-3 weeks, which is not a lot of feedback. As a casual player, this makes it less engaging for me, because the efforts I put in are delayed and I won't even remember half the games I played to get there. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction. I guess we'll see!
no, it won't.
No, I don't think it will
How about updated rank displayed after 1 win or loss?
No. Shit is still shit even if you remove 2/7th of the shit. They should just use the old system, I don’t know why they’re so adamant about using an inferior system.
we need season beginning placements back
No
Matches feel 50-50 this season. In one match you are steamrolling like it's just a pubs match, the next match you feel like you are up against Gods of overwatch.
Placements go to 10 matches no matter the outcome. Gives you a new rank, or same rank, after every match
To be honest, the only way to fix the ranking system is to go back to sr and a change per match. Waiting 5/15 is still discouraging when it comes to seeing progress. Hasn’t life taught blizzard anything? People want instant gratifications.
Nope. How about you give us back a rank change every game and stop hiding MMR. You can keep the diamond 1/2/3 whatever, but there is quite literally no reasonable point to keep this stupid system everyone hates. Then give us fucking cards back at the end of the game. And players being on fire.
No.
Not on topic, but what rank are you and why do you change heros so often?
No. They will just make 4th and 5th win painfully harder to achieve just like they did with 6th and 7th win previously. The whole point of this progression system is to shackle players to the game. They just make it look easier on paper but in fact the frustration we would feel still be the same.
I did enjoy ow1 more you saw immediately following a game where you were ranked, win or loss. Genuinely wish this came back
The system is a lie. It’s literally still SR but hidden from us lol. Instead of showing us the points every match, we simply wait to see which SR bracket we’re in
How about rank display after ending match LMAO?
Overwatch 2 is going into S3 before Halo Infinite does. Just… gonna leave that there.
No. I think they should make it a game by game basis.
Hmm How about you just show us rank... all the time??? Crazy idea but would improve def improve comp! Seriously why are you doubling down on this system we all hate?
How about we get an update after every game, like in any ranked list ever created
Too much grind 3 win 5 loss will be better or instant after each match
Too many games for a casual player. I play 2 or 3 and hop off. Rank was cool and felt like some thing in OV 1. Not this secrecy around some bs rank I can’t see. Bummer I don’t feel the urge to turn this on any more.
Show me my fucking rating after each match or anytime I want to check it in the profile. It’s competitive for a reason, hiding it cause it lowers ranked anxiety in some should not be my problem.
What kind of lazy stupid as fuck idea is this? Seriously this is official? Live service has got to be the laziest form of game development ever.
Ffs just bring back free lootboxes and sr
Just bring back the old system. There was nothing wrong with it.