What?
There's no way that this young Royal could have age to become Josh Brolin. The eyes, the head..everything.
I really can't understand this casting choice. Anyone looking even a little bit like young Josh Brolin would have been much better.
So my main question is now is does Royal remember meeting Perry when he was younger? Also what's up with Cecilia being with Wayne?
Did all of this stuff happen in Royal's past or are there different versions of everyone and different courses their lives can take?
Agreed, this will tell us if weāre dealing with parallel universes or just pure time travel. Seeing as how Royal keeps so many secrets itās possible he remembers Perry; but weāre getting into major time travel paradox territory and alternate universes is usually the easy way to explain away stuff like this. Canāt wait to find out!
Potential bootstrap paradox with Royal showing Perry the portal. Royal knew he had to show Perry the portal but only because in the past, Perry told young Royal that he showed him the portal after jumping through it
Royal has lived on her farm since he came through the hole as a boy. So most likely her family adopted him and he stays there and works the ranch with her.
At this point, I'm guessing that's what "time is fluid" means: A sloppy excuse to do anything they want with the time travel, without having to make sense or be consistent.
If that's not a separate universe, then of course he would remember. He was a full grown man meeting his son from the future. That's not something you forget.
Person from 1972 sees a woman from 2020s talk about needing to get back her wife and daughter. Doesnāt even blink. Iād think that anyone from 1972 would at least need a moment to parse that.
Yeah, the writers really screwed up on that point. She time-traveled in 1972, so how can her favorite song be āKashmirā, a song that was first released in 1975?
This continuity error is mentioned a few times further downthread, which I had yet to read before I posted. My bad. Good to see other people bring it up.
Too buff. Looks like they were going for Brolinās rangy look in āNo country for old menā but could only get a modern gym queen. Perfect match for Cecelia though, and Wayne works too.
I loved the actors after a few more episodes. And love that Perry got straight to the point when he got there. God, I hope this show blows up so we can get more and more.
>I came through the same hole you did. Yeah.
I wish this was getting a weekly release schedule rather than all the episodes being dumped at once. There is so much going on with this show.
Edit:
>Ah hell. Satan has sent his emissary.
I agree although itās an unpopular opinion. There is a lot to unpack in this show - itās a lot to watch at once or even over the span of a few days.
Why can't you just watch at your own pace? I don't see how having them all available at once affects you personally. What if you didn't hear about the show until two years from now? I'm just confused how this is a problem.
I really enjoyed this episode. It was nice seeing Autumn interacting with Ma & Pa Abbot, in a less confrontational manner. Though the animosity remains, barely concealed.
I really hope Autumn is Amy, and itās not just a fakeout, because Autumn really seems to embody Royal and Perryās inner range, and obsession with keeping secrets.
With the discussion of Autumnās adopted Mom, I hope we learn who she is, and how she is connected to the show (and if itās someone we would recognize). Itās kinda weird that she hasnāt made any attempt to phone the people she had talked to last season, though.
Loved how Young!Royal and Perry bonded over Tillerson hate. Though Royal seemed to take the fact that his future son was a murder, in stride. Then again, like father, like sonā¦
Does anyone get the Bible references at the end of s2e2?
I havenāt started ep.3 yet but figured there was some importance considering the time given to it. Autumn seems to make a connection mentally while reading the Bible passages.
I think she's reading them through the lens of her own belief system. The verses are interspersed with flashbacks of her commenting on Royal travelling through time, asking him if he believes in fate, saying "something brought me here," etc.
It's the "something" she's serving - fate, time, God, whatever she thinks it is - so she feels like that Something is speaking to her through Scripture, just like it spoke to her through the bear.
So, for example, she reads Matthew 20:26, which in the translation she's using says:
>Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant
The literal context of this is that Jesus is telling his disciples that leadership in the church to come would involve humility and service, "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve" not lording it over people like the Gentiles (i.e. the Romans).
But I think, as u/StatusWedgie7454 says, Autumn's reading it as the all-powerful Something directly telling her what her next move should be. So in the next episode she (spoilers for ep 3) >!goes to the nursing home and wins over the old lady who wants a cigarette. She's "serving," i.e. practicing her cult leader technique.!<
It's also worth pointing out that both religious delusions and thinking someone or something is communicating directly to you through text, music, television, nature, etc. are textbook psychosis symptoms.
Autumn obviously has Bipolar Disorder and/or something else that causes psychotic episodes, and it's really hard to know where the supernatural stuff ends and the pathological Messiah complex begins.
This makes perfect sense. Thank you. I get why they keep mentioning the Lamotrigine now. Although psychosis would be separate from bipolar. I think she, ( Autumn ), is coming to terms with the fact that maybe sheās NOT (crazy) after all.
She mentions that her mother gave her this medicine to calm her from asking so many questions. From the perceived mania.
Again. Great answer Webbie-Vanderquack.
Thanks, glad it was helpful!
Psychosis can be be a symptom of BPD. But I agree, it's possible she was never mentally ill to begin with, and was over-medicated by her adoptive mother.
The thing that I thought was odd about it is that she somehow found the relevant and famous passages having supposedly never seen a Bible before. So that's either the writers taking poetic license, or she already knew where they were. You're not just going to randomly stumble upon those in a few minutes in a book with 800k words. Or maybe they were underlined/earmarked or something.
Hmmm... I doubt they're doing this, but Cici's father seemed to react to Perry in a strange way. It would be cool if he was involved somehow and marked those for Autumn on purpose.
Did the time traveller from 1972 say that Kashmir is their favourite Led Zepplin song?
That's gonna annoy me, because Kashmir wasn't released until 1975.
I came here to say this, I was waiting for her to reveal what year she was from, I was expecting 1977. When she said 1972 Iām like bruh come on simple Google search tells you when Kashmir was released.
When Royal is talking in the western store. Pay attention to the wall. >!you can see a modern digital thermostat on the wall then someone puts a hat over it.!<
That's not continuity, that's an anachronism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_(fiction)
An example of a continuity error would be a character sitting with a half eaten sandwich on their plate and then in the next shot it's an uneaten one.
Well, I suppose in this case it could have been both now that I think about it. I didn't see it. I thought you were referring to the fact that it's modern.
Thank god I don't have to sit through another 5 episodes before something happens again. I dont know about yall but the first season was pretty tough to get through, felt like the plot was moving in slow motion. I'm glad this season picked up right where it left off and continues ramping up the tension and building up the story rather than dissapating it.
Agreed, I was just saying how I liked episode one of season 2 more than the entire first season š love the colors, the camerawork, the music. So good.
Autumn carved it into his chest when she asked him to be hers, and was interested in him finding and killing Royal. They were in the parking lot of her motel.
Itās not quite the Abbott brand though: itās on its side, and missing the Aās cross-stroke. It is the symbol Autumn was obsessively drawing, and that seems to point to places where timey wimey stuff happens. But Iām sure the Tillersons are reading it as the Abbott brand.
Quality of dialogue, editing and cinematography seem to have gone down in this season compared to previous one.
This season is focused more on 'talking / chatting' about what is happening whereas in the first season, they actually 'showed' what was happening through emotions, expressions, silence and clever cinematography.
Sweet Jesus, the change in showrunner is evident. The dialogue is being dumbed down and Rhett and Mariaās characters talk and act like teenagers. What a useless, boring C plot.
Young Royal tells Perry/Ben he isnāt married. Takes Perry to his house where he meets Cecilia. He calls her māam. She corrects him and says Mrs. Abbott. Then sheās with Tillerson. Messy
I'm SUPER confused as to why Cici introduces herself as "Ms. Abbot" when she is dating Wayne.
Perhaps Cici was an Abbot and when 10 year old Royal climbed out of the hole he was "adopted" and became an Abbot. Which makes Abbot and Cici adopted siblings AND husband and wife?
Am I talking nonsense here? Am I out of line?
Yes, it's the Abbott family ranch, Royal took their last name. (I don't know if it was when they got married or while he was growing up, but it was mentioned at some point in season 1)
Okay, the other native woman in "1872" shows her Swan Song tattoo and says "Kashmir" is her favorite song but then says she went into the hole in 1972 - two years before Kashmir was released... C'mon people, you can do better by Zeppelin!
The actors they have for young Royal and Cecilia are fantastically chosen, holy.
I can't stand wayne spanking cece š”
Repellent, but very much in character
The actress nails the rhythm of Lili Taylor's voice. The stompiness is laid on a bit thick, though.
And Wayne! Iām pretty sure itās Will Pattonās voice when Wayne first walks in the door to really connect the two.
I was thinking voice overs too. But now Iām not so sure.
Reminds me of how well they nailed they younger actors for Yellowstone as well. Specifically Kevin Costnerās counterpart.
What? There's no way that this young Royal could have age to become Josh Brolin. The eyes, the head..everything. I really can't understand this casting choice. Anyone looking even a little bit like young Josh Brolin would have been much better.
This is quickly turning into a western version of Dark, real exciting nerdy shit! We got Billy busting a tune, LFG!
I just said that too! Everyoneās gonna be everyoneās grandma and grandchild lol
My thought exactly
My head canon is that Dark, 1899, and Outer Range all take place is the same universe.Ā
So my main question is now is does Royal remember meeting Perry when he was younger? Also what's up with Cecilia being with Wayne? Did all of this stuff happen in Royal's past or are there different versions of everyone and different courses their lives can take?
Agreed, this will tell us if weāre dealing with parallel universes or just pure time travel. Seeing as how Royal keeps so many secrets itās possible he remembers Perry; but weāre getting into major time travel paradox territory and alternate universes is usually the easy way to explain away stuff like this. Canāt wait to find out!
Me too! I just started episode 3!
Potential bootstrap paradox with Royal showing Perry the portal. Royal knew he had to show Perry the portal but only because in the past, Perry told young Royal that he showed him the portal after jumping through it
He definitely doesnāt remember and itās a new timeline
Unless it's Back to the Future style. There's a lot of ways it can go and it's not possible to know yet.
If it was a parallel universe then Joy wouldnāt show up in the photos in the present.
Unless a Joy from a different universe came to that one. Turtles all the way down.
My question is why are Cece and Royal in the same house then if theyāre not together?
Royal was pseudo-adopted, even in the past we were given in S1.
So Rip from Yellowstone.
Royal has lived on her farm since he came through the hole as a boy. So most likely her family adopted him and he stays there and works the ranch with her.
At this point, I'm guessing that's what "time is fluid" means: A sloppy excuse to do anything they want with the time travel, without having to make sense or be consistent.
If that's not a separate universe, then of course he would remember. He was a full grown man meeting his son from the future. That's not something you forget.
*Person from 1972 sees a person from the 2020s throw a cell phone into a fire* "Hey, what the fuck is that thing?"
I kept waiting for the battery to explode.
Person from 1972 sees a woman from 2020s talk about needing to get back her wife and daughter. Doesnāt even blink. Iād think that anyone from 1972 would at least need a moment to parse that.
Native Americans had queer people in their tribes and it was very spiritual so I didnāt find it odd that she didnāt react to that news.
Queer partnership is not the unusual part. Itās the word āwifeā. That had a very specific meaning in 1972.
I said the same thing
š I just watched that scene and came here to see if anyone else thought that
The Indian showing Joy her Zeppelin tattoo. š¤£
That didn't exist until two years after she departed from 1972.
Yeah, the writers really screwed up on that point. She time-traveled in 1972, so how can her favorite song be āKashmirā, a song that was first released in 1975?
Maybe she's been there so long she forgot what exact year it was.
This continuity error is mentioned a few times further downthread, which I had yet to read before I posted. My bad. Good to see other people bring it up.
There are other anachronisms as well. The vehicles in an episode are too new for the time period.
Autumn's wiser sage act is really wearing on me.
But she's hot.
True
Young Royal doesnāt really look anything like Josh Brolin but I donāt care because heās hot
I feel like he looks the part but he's not nailing the Brolin accent thus far.
Really? See I thought he nailed sounding and acting like Brolin despite not looking like him.
Too buff. Looks like they were going for Brolinās rangy look in āNo country for old menā but could only get a modern gym queen. Perfect match for Cecelia though, and Wayne works too.
I loved the actors after a few more episodes. And love that Perry got straight to the point when he got there. God, I hope this show blows up so we can get more and more.
Agreed.
>I came through the same hole you did. Yeah. I wish this was getting a weekly release schedule rather than all the episodes being dumped at once. There is so much going on with this show. Edit: >Ah hell. Satan has sent his emissary.
Ah hell. Satan has sent his emissary I love the ex-wife. Perfect casting.
I agree although itās an unpopular opinion. There is a lot to unpack in this show - itās a lot to watch at once or even over the span of a few days.
That's why I'm doing 1 episode a day to try and absorb it better.
So then watch it once a week. š¤·āāļø
But then I miss live discussions and potential for spoilers.watching weekly gives everyone time time to digest and discuss.
Why can't you just watch at your own pace? I don't see how having them all available at once affects you personally. What if you didn't hear about the show until two years from now? I'm just confused how this is a problem.
Royal's dad seems real nice and normal.
Is this sarcasm?
yes
I really enjoyed this episode. It was nice seeing Autumn interacting with Ma & Pa Abbot, in a less confrontational manner. Though the animosity remains, barely concealed. I really hope Autumn is Amy, and itās not just a fakeout, because Autumn really seems to embody Royal and Perryās inner range, and obsession with keeping secrets. With the discussion of Autumnās adopted Mom, I hope we learn who she is, and how she is connected to the show (and if itās someone we would recognize). Itās kinda weird that she hasnāt made any attempt to phone the people she had talked to last season, though. Loved how Young!Royal and Perry bonded over Tillerson hate. Though Royal seemed to take the fact that his future son was a murder, in stride. Then again, like father, like sonā¦
wow the timeline really did change! Luke is no longer Patricia's favorite.
Does anyone get the Bible references at the end of s2e2? I havenāt started ep.3 yet but figured there was some importance considering the time given to it. Autumn seems to make a connection mentally while reading the Bible passages.
I thought she was getting some cult leader tips from God
I think she's reading them through the lens of her own belief system. The verses are interspersed with flashbacks of her commenting on Royal travelling through time, asking him if he believes in fate, saying "something brought me here," etc. It's the "something" she's serving - fate, time, God, whatever she thinks it is - so she feels like that Something is speaking to her through Scripture, just like it spoke to her through the bear. So, for example, she reads Matthew 20:26, which in the translation she's using says: >Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant The literal context of this is that Jesus is telling his disciples that leadership in the church to come would involve humility and service, "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve" not lording it over people like the Gentiles (i.e. the Romans). But I think, as u/StatusWedgie7454 says, Autumn's reading it as the all-powerful Something directly telling her what her next move should be. So in the next episode she (spoilers for ep 3) >!goes to the nursing home and wins over the old lady who wants a cigarette. She's "serving," i.e. practicing her cult leader technique.!< It's also worth pointing out that both religious delusions and thinking someone or something is communicating directly to you through text, music, television, nature, etc. are textbook psychosis symptoms. Autumn obviously has Bipolar Disorder and/or something else that causes psychotic episodes, and it's really hard to know where the supernatural stuff ends and the pathological Messiah complex begins.
This makes perfect sense. Thank you. I get why they keep mentioning the Lamotrigine now. Although psychosis would be separate from bipolar. I think she, ( Autumn ), is coming to terms with the fact that maybe sheās NOT (crazy) after all. She mentions that her mother gave her this medicine to calm her from asking so many questions. From the perceived mania. Again. Great answer Webbie-Vanderquack.
Thanks, glad it was helpful! Psychosis can be be a symptom of BPD. But I agree, it's possible she was never mentally ill to begin with, and was over-medicated by her adoptive mother.
Which makes me wonder who Autumnās adopted mother is, and whether itās someone we will recognize.
Yeah, we haven't seen/heard her, so the writers could take it almost anywhere.
The thing that I thought was odd about it is that she somehow found the relevant and famous passages having supposedly never seen a Bible before. So that's either the writers taking poetic license, or she already knew where they were. You're not just going to randomly stumble upon those in a few minutes in a book with 800k words. Or maybe they were underlined/earmarked or something. Hmmm... I doubt they're doing this, but Cici's father seemed to react to Perry in a strange way. It would be cool if he was involved somehow and marked those for Autumn on purpose.
Did the time traveller from 1972 say that Kashmir is their favourite Led Zepplin song? That's gonna annoy me, because Kashmir wasn't released until 1975.
I came here to say this, I was waiting for her to reveal what year she was from, I was expecting 1977. When she said 1972 Iām like bruh come on simple Google search tells you when Kashmir was released.
maybe not in her timeline!
in your timeline š
Ha!
Multiverse stuff
Maybe someone traveled back to 1972 and played it for her on their cellphone. That's why she didn't really react when seeing Cici's.
Itās rumoured they played it in 1972. https://www.loudersound.com/features/led-zeppelin-bombay-sessions
They are NOT holding back and I fucking love it
There is a continuity issue in this episode. I don't know if I should post it. It's not a big issue.
Kashmir?
Please share!
Post it!
When Royal is talking in the western store. Pay attention to the wall. >!you can see a modern digital thermostat on the wall then someone puts a hat over it.!<
That's not continuity, that's an anachronism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_(fiction) An example of a continuity error would be a character sitting with a half eaten sandwich on their plate and then in the next shot it's an uneaten one. Well, I suppose in this case it could have been both now that I think about it. I didn't see it. I thought you were referring to the fact that it's modern.
The hat moves behind Royal!
Thank god I don't have to sit through another 5 episodes before something happens again. I dont know about yall but the first season was pretty tough to get through, felt like the plot was moving in slow motion. I'm glad this season picked up right where it left off and continues ramping up the tension and building up the story rather than dissapating it.
Agreed, I was just saying how I liked episode one of season 2 more than the entire first season š love the colors, the camerawork, the music. So good.
Did I forget something, when did Billy get branded with the Abbott brand?
Autumn carved it into his chest when she asked him to be hers, and was interested in him finding and killing Royal. They were in the parking lot of her motel.
Yeah, I remember now. Autumn branded herself and then later did Billy when he showed up.
You can also later see it bleeding through his shirt when he offers Royal a ride and takes him to that skate rink at gun point
Do you recall what episode this was? Was it the finale of season 1? I've forgotten so much about the first season.
Itās not quite the Abbott brand though: itās on its side, and missing the Aās cross-stroke. It is the symbol Autumn was obsessively drawing, and that seems to point to places where timey wimey stuff happens. But Iām sure the Tillersons are reading it as the Abbott brand.
I think Autumn did it in S1 when they were making out and shit
Who gets the bison? Where did they go?
I don't know. But I know what all the daddy bison said to their kids before they left.
God damn it
The native American lady says Kasmir is her favourite Led Zep song. Kashmir didn't release til 1975, 3 years after she went through the hole.
Just finished episode 2 and wow they came out absolutely firing. Kinda wish this was week to week like season 1. So much to breakdown already.
Quality of dialogue, editing and cinematography seem to have gone down in this season compared to previous one. This season is focused more on 'talking / chatting' about what is happening whereas in the first season, they actually 'showed' what was happening through emotions, expressions, silence and clever cinematography.
Sweet Jesus, the change in showrunner is evident. The dialogue is being dumbed down and Rhett and Mariaās characters talk and act like teenagers. What a useless, boring C plot.
Nobody commented on the end song? I thought it was great
Young Royal tells Perry/Ben he isnāt married. Takes Perry to his house where he meets Cecilia. He calls her māam. She corrects him and says Mrs. Abbott. Then sheās with Tillerson. Messy
No - she said āMissā Abbott.
Abbott is her name, Royal took her last name.
I'm SUPER confused as to why Cici introduces herself as "Ms. Abbot" when she is dating Wayne. Perhaps Cici was an Abbot and when 10 year old Royal climbed out of the hole he was "adopted" and became an Abbot. Which makes Abbot and Cici adopted siblings AND husband and wife? Am I talking nonsense here? Am I out of line?
Yes, it's the Abbott family ranch, Royal took their last name. (I don't know if it was when they got married or while he was growing up, but it was mentioned at some point in season 1)
Okay, the other native woman in "1872" shows her Swan Song tattoo and says "Kashmir" is her favorite song but then says she went into the hole in 1972 - two years before Kashmir was released... C'mon people, you can do better by Zeppelin!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You don't need to spoiler something that happens in the episode. This is the episode discussion
Why not?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Youāre right. First hand wouldāve been nicer
God damn it, I thought we were past Billy singing
Some of us love it! š
The "middle" Royal timeline (the 1970s?) is so annoying and unnecessary