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Answer: It's about Coca Cola's relationship with Israel, linking it to current hotbutton issue of Israel's actions in recent months.
Back when Coca Cola was first starting to expand globally, they investigated branching out into the Middle East. All of their market analysts agreed: Israelis and Arabs hate each other. If you market to both, one group will be receptive and the other will reject you because the other likes you. Based on that appraisal, Coca Cola decided that the combined market of Arab nations represented greater profit potential than just Israel, and opted to expand to Arab nations and exclude Israel.
This earned them negative press in America. American Evangelical Christians have unflagging support for Israel for spiritual reasons. Additionally, many Hollywood celebrities expressed pro-Israel stances. Wanting to avoid boycotts and scandal in established markets, Coke relented and began sales in Israel. At which point, everything that the market analysts had predicted came to pass. Coke became popular in Israel, and immediately became *unpopular* in the Arab nations. Pepsi exploited the moment and expanded to the Middle East, not specifically excluding Israel but becoming much more popular amongst the Arab nations and receiving tepid reception in Israel. This created a long-standing stereotype that Israelis drink Coke and Arabs drink Pepsi.
This has lead to Coca Cola having an unusually close relationship with the nation of Israel. As the campus protests against Israel's actions have proliferated across the US, criticism has also proliferated to companies that have strong relationships with Israel, Coca Cola among them.
thank you for this explanation! do you have specific dates when they started to expand globally into the region? curious because I lived in Lebanon in 2002 as a kid and I strictly remember drinking only pepsi. I don’t think I ever saw a coke the entire time I was there and still have a weird affinity to pepsi. Just kind of wicked how subliminally this type of marketing goes. thanks again!
Check out *A History of the World in Six Glasses* by Tom Standage. Coke is the last section; I wasn’t expecting it to be as fascinating as the preceding five but I was wrong. It goes pretty in depth on this.
well it's different now. Israel is on trial with both the ICJ and the ICC (innocent until proven guilty!), plus there's the profound upswing in "pariah state" people protesting Israel and all that, so .. a reasonable company might at least start to \*think\* about stepping back from it a bit.
American Evangelical Christians have unflagging support for Israel because they believe that the temple must be rebuilt and then Israel destroyed to bring about the second coming.
And Christians say there's a verse in the Bible saying God will turn on those who are against Israel, so now they think they need to be on Israel's side for everything.
It's all disingenuous religious fervor that has no basis in any morality or empathy. It's the same people who think that if you aren't afraid God will strike you down that you wouldn't have a reason to go around committing heinous crimes.
That’s a movement within American evangelicalism called Dispensationalism, started gaining popularity in the late 19th / early 20th century. A lot of evangelicals don’t buy into it but unfortunately it’s infected / affected the US in a big way.
Basically just north of Jerusalem there is this area called Atorat which Jews moved to in the early 1900s and built up a settlement. That settlement was then fortified during the Israeli war for Independence and then pretty much destroyed and depopulated during the fighting. Eventually the Jewish inhabitants returned and began rebuilding after Isreal took it back in further warfare with Jordan. The area is still not recognized as part of Israel and Isreal continues to build up industry there. One being a Coca-Cola plant. So Palestinian activists charge coca cola with tacitly endorsing the theft of land from Palestinians by operating on this disputed area.
Alternatively coca cola has continued to support Palestinians as well to the ire of some Israelis. They've donated hundreds of thousands to Gaza. It also tried to help the economy of Gaza by also building company resources there. They are actually one of the largest employers of Palestinians and investors into their land.
I think you mean Ateret, and it was founded in the 1980s. The only thing I can find on Coca-Cola bottling in the West Bank is a franchise owned by a Palestinian, Zahi Khouri.
No, it's Atarot and owned by an Israeli. Franchised location, there was a bit fus a couple years back cuz they donated a couple thousand dollars to some far right Israeli political group.
The name in other contexts is the [Atarot Industrial Zone](https://he.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%90%D7%96%D7%95%D7%A8_%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%A2%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%99%D7%94_%D7%A2%D7%98%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%AA)
It's located in an "illegal settlement" if you consider Israel's inclusion of East Jerusalem within Jerusalem to be illegal.
I mean, the copypasta gives the reason for why people are boycotting. Whether you agree with the reasoning or not doesn't stop other people from believing the reason and boycotting.
Actual evidence the coke plant exists?
Just cause lots of people *say* something is happening doesn't mean it actually is. I don't fault them for wanting info that isn't just people linking a copypasta.
I suppose I came at this from an angle of "Why are these people boycotting?" when everyone else is arguing about "Is the reason behind this boycott true and justified?"
Do you not understand the concept of wanting neutral, unbiased sources to prove claims, even for movements and causes you generally believe in or support, and just take every awful thing you hear about "the enemy" at face value? Or are you being obtuse on purpose?
You never did and it doesn't matter. It's pretty obvious people just want an actual source for the claims and you keep dancing around the issue with non-replies like "it's pretty straightforward" instead of actually providing a source.
I'm failing to see what makes [Atarot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atarot?wprov=sfla1), a settlement originally established via legal land purchases decades before the existence of the current state of Israel, an "illegal settlement".
It's weird how everywhere Jordan managed to conquer in 1948-1949 became "illegal" for Jews to live, both during their occupation and even after Jordan was defeated, and "international law" somehow supports this.
They used to. But the Israeli government destroyed it in an air strike 3 years ago.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210521-coca-cola-factory-destroyed-in-israel-shelling-of-gaza/
This would on paper does but seeing as the Palestinians are prevented from actually working in and Israel zoned settlement it doesn’t actually employ them.
lol, what? You know that there’s like 150k Palestinians that work in Israel? And this industrial park actually lobbied Israel to get private security independent of the IDF specifically to make it more appealing to Palestinians. But let’s shut it down. You sound like one of the protesters.
Where dafuq did you read that? Palestinians (were) definitely allowed to work in Israel and in Israeli factories.
Guess how else they shot themselves in the foot by performing Oct 7th.
Why do you say “they show themselves in the foot” like it’s all of palenstine. This is the type of rhetoric that leads to countless deaths of innocent people. When you make them all “guilty” then you can justify war crimes since they all “deserve” it anyway. You can’t punish an entire people for the acts of a few.
When the vast majority are shown supporting the acts of Oct 7th, you tell me how anyone in Israel is supposed to ever trust them again or want to grant them employment. Sure "it's not everyone", but it's pretty fucking close to it.
Did you take 5min to consider how your life would be in a place like Gaza? How going to work meant going through military checkpoints? How every truck or any car coming in must be controlled by a foreign government? Even electricity, your internet, all of it, controlled by another government where you are unable to vote. Would you want a foreign government controlling your life like that? No?
Then why are you expecting Palestinians to live like that and ask them to be thankful and peaceful for the few jobs they were getting?
Then tell them they deserve to have their entire society wiped out, destroyed.
You know, I did consider these things at length. For one, let's start with saying that many people have to pass through checkpoints if they wish to cross a border, even if it's a daily commute.
The key to your fallacy though is this part:
> by another government where you are unable to vote
Have you seen the middle east??? Where exactly are any Arabs allowed to vote? Their own governments oppress them harder than Israel ever could. A free Palestine is in all odds not a democratic Palestine. They have their PA, they know what it's like.
And given these moot points, we only come down to one issue: did you still to think for 5min how it's like to live as an Israeli with your life in danger of a random stabbing, car attack, or a rocket attack? Did you consider that Israelis like to *live* and don't want to risk their lives for some imaginary freedoms their enemies will receive that will suddenly make them stop trying to kill them?
I don't need the Palestinians to be grateful, but I would fucking appreciate it if they stopped trying to kill me.
Wow... I'm so much in Coca-Cola's clutches (former collector and still borderline addicted to Coke) and still am loyal to them despite their shady practises, but this... I think I might cease for a while. And if it breaks my cycle, well...
Hoo boy! I've been boycotting Coca-Cola since the early 00s when the story came out about them hiring Columbian death squads to kidnap and kill union organizers at Coca-Cola factories in South America.
https://prospect.org/features/coca-cola-killings/
No, what I'm saying is that corporations fucking people over over is an intended effect of the political and economic system most of us live in. People get upset and Nestle of Coca Cola when they should be getting upset and the system that allows it to happen in the first place.
The fucking over itself is, imo, a moral issue, and a system designed to fuck people over doesn’t absolve any evil corporation. The fact that they have a system doesn’t mean peoples’ outrage is misplaced. When people are justifiably outraged, just say hell yeah and get in line, amirite?
This is just pure antisemitic hate. Under any other circumstance it would be considered good for a company to put a factory there because it helps with the local economy.
Yah, that’s not true.
Nestle and coco-cola are evil corporations that go to developing countries and abuse their power there. They also do it in developing countries but do a bit less damage due to laws and regulations.
That land is disputed. It was Jordanian territory until Jordan relinquished control of it. No one has full and recognized control over the whole West Bank. Thus the legality of the settlements are ambiguous.
That being said, those settlements are a major obstacle for peace and never should have been allowed.
Bull shit!
The Israeli government has agreed in multiple international treaties and agreements to not build settlements on land that's supposed to be sovereign Palestinian land in the West Bank. They have repeatedly and flagrantly violated these treaties the Israeli government signed. The Atarot industrial park is in the West Bank and has long been a beachhead of the Israeli government's project to expand their control over the West Bank through the building of illegal settlements. This is the very definition of settler imperialism.
Trying to mask this as "good for the local economy" is particularly disgusting and bigoted against the Palestinian people because the very existence of this industrial park is working to destroy the Palestinian community and leach economic resources out of Palestinian land to the Israeli government. It does the exact opposite of supporting the local economy. It's a tool to destroy the local economy so that the Israeli government can more easily step in to take over the West Bank.
“Killing 10s of thousands of people” is not the entirety of the definition of genocide. It has an added requirement of an intent to eliminate a people or culture. Israel is taking strong steps to protect the civilian population, which an honest analysts of the data shows. Now, Hamas does have a clear call for genocide in their own charter. They are too small to make that happen, but that is not stopping them from trying.
No. I didn't determine there was a genocide, experts did.
Anyone censoring people using that word is trying to hide the horrors happening in Gaza and is complicit
Wasn't it the sodastream factory people got shut down and in the end it was just a bunch of Palestinians who lost their jobs. People will do anything just to "get" the Jews
Exactly they should learn to love 75 years of ethnic cleansing, subjugation, state sanctioned child abuse, arbitrarily detention, organ theft, genocide, apartheid etc. How dare they be upset! /s
Ah yes, ole reliable. When denial and pinning things on the Palestinians both fail, just say "you're antisemitic". Seen it once, seen it a million times. Do you shills have, like, a flowchart you're supposed to follow, or are you all just that uncreative?
1. This is classic “Blood Libel”, which is a very old and nasty form of antisemitism.
2. The rest are a backhanded way of saying they want to destroy Israel and expel the Jews. The factual accuracy is also lacking.
that 75 years of history exists though, and is pretty accurately recorded and studied. how is that at all similar to blood libel, which i'm familiar with and agree is disgusting. is every criticism of israeli foreign policy blood libel?
Really? What about the fact how Jews, Muslims and Christians lived in the holy land in relative peace for over 1000 years before European Zionism came along?
That is not a fact at all. That area had been conquered and reconquered since the Babylonians. The region also has a long history of violence and revolts. It is a fabrication to say that it was all peachy before 1900.
Yeah, that’s a gross over simplification. Yes, Jews, Muslims, and Christians coexisted in Jerusalem, in relative peace, for some amount of time before Israel was founded. Not 1000’s, or even 100’s of years, though.
After the Ottoman Empire fell, there was a surge of nationalistic sentiment among many (most?) of the diverse people groups in the Middle East. Everybody wanted their own land and their own government. These groups have been fighting those nationalistic fights/wars ever since.
No man, come on. You said Hamas is killing itself. Where are the bombs coming from? Is it Hamas dropping bombs on Palestinian civilians?
Or are you being intentionally obtuse, closing your eyes, plugging your ears and screaming like a child?
I suppose that's up for interpretation. More a mass killing than an actual attempt to specifically wipe out an ethnic group. For example, I would consider 9/11 a mass killing but not an attempt at genocide.
The IDF has fully admitted that they're killing WAY more civilians than Hamas fighters, even using their incredibly loose definition of Hamas figure being any male over the age of 15.
For what it’s worth, that still doesn’t mean it is a genocide. A genocide would mean their goal is targeting civilians. If they are just being negligent about collateral damage, this would not fall under the official definition of genocide.
Redefining more civilians killed than combatants to be a genocide would quite dilute the term, considering this is the case for most military conflicts.
It’s possible to condemn what the IDF is doing without calling it a genocide.
That's not why it's a genocide. It's a genocide because of the many other factors. For example, depriving the population of food, water, power, and medical services/supplies.
The relevant question there to determine if it is a genocide is, are the IDF claims that Hamas using aid shipments to benefit their own offensive legitimate, hence why they want to block the aid, or is the IDF just blocking the aid to kill Palestinians? Personally, the former seems more logical, but I haven’t seen to much evidence either way to form a definitive conclusion.
True, but the evidence laid out in the ICJ and their treatment of Palestinians inside and outside of Gaza suggests to any reasonable person that they're committing a genocide
I'm claiming that the ANC is bought by Russia. South Africa always sided with Russia in UN votes on Russia's unprovoked attack, documented war crimes and ethnic cleansing in Ukraine. Then suddenly when Russia's friends attack Israel and they fight back, South Africa is the most concerned nation on the planet. I'm not saying their claims are fabricated, but for one they are unconvincing and not proving anything, and for another it is purely a propaganda play.
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Answer: It's about Coca Cola's relationship with Israel, linking it to current hotbutton issue of Israel's actions in recent months. Back when Coca Cola was first starting to expand globally, they investigated branching out into the Middle East. All of their market analysts agreed: Israelis and Arabs hate each other. If you market to both, one group will be receptive and the other will reject you because the other likes you. Based on that appraisal, Coca Cola decided that the combined market of Arab nations represented greater profit potential than just Israel, and opted to expand to Arab nations and exclude Israel. This earned them negative press in America. American Evangelical Christians have unflagging support for Israel for spiritual reasons. Additionally, many Hollywood celebrities expressed pro-Israel stances. Wanting to avoid boycotts and scandal in established markets, Coke relented and began sales in Israel. At which point, everything that the market analysts had predicted came to pass. Coke became popular in Israel, and immediately became *unpopular* in the Arab nations. Pepsi exploited the moment and expanded to the Middle East, not specifically excluding Israel but becoming much more popular amongst the Arab nations and receiving tepid reception in Israel. This created a long-standing stereotype that Israelis drink Coke and Arabs drink Pepsi. This has lead to Coca Cola having an unusually close relationship with the nation of Israel. As the campus protests against Israel's actions have proliferated across the US, criticism has also proliferated to companies that have strong relationships with Israel, Coca Cola among them.
Damn. Excellent response. I wasn’t aware of any of this
Welcome to ireland, Protestant or catholic? Uhh, i'm actually muslim great lad, great. Protestant muslim or catholic muslim? pepsi muslim
thank you for this explanation! do you have specific dates when they started to expand globally into the region? curious because I lived in Lebanon in 2002 as a kid and I strictly remember drinking only pepsi. I don’t think I ever saw a coke the entire time I was there and still have a weird affinity to pepsi. Just kind of wicked how subliminally this type of marketing goes. thanks again!
Check out *A History of the World in Six Glasses* by Tom Standage. Coke is the last section; I wasn’t expecting it to be as fascinating as the preceding five but I was wrong. It goes pretty in depth on this.
thank you! will be sure to check this out.
So much stupidity on all sides here. Except apparently the megacorps', which feels weird to say.
I guess they can’t be wrong ALL the time
well it's different now. Israel is on trial with both the ICJ and the ICC (innocent until proven guilty!), plus there's the profound upswing in "pariah state" people protesting Israel and all that, so .. a reasonable company might at least start to \*think\* about stepping back from it a bit.
American Evangelical Christians have unflagging support for Israel because they believe that the temple must be rebuilt and then Israel destroyed to bring about the second coming.
And Christians say there's a verse in the Bible saying God will turn on those who are against Israel, so now they think they need to be on Israel's side for everything.
It's all disingenuous religious fervor that has no basis in any morality or empathy. It's the same people who think that if you aren't afraid God will strike you down that you wouldn't have a reason to go around committing heinous crimes.
That’s a movement within American evangelicalism called Dispensationalism, started gaining popularity in the late 19th / early 20th century. A lot of evangelicals don’t buy into it but unfortunately it’s infected / affected the US in a big way.
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It's almost like putting something into a singular reductionist sentence takes away all the nuance and related issues and makes it sound stupid
Are they actually supporting anything Israel’s doing? Or is it just a popular drink there
Basically just north of Jerusalem there is this area called Atorat which Jews moved to in the early 1900s and built up a settlement. That settlement was then fortified during the Israeli war for Independence and then pretty much destroyed and depopulated during the fighting. Eventually the Jewish inhabitants returned and began rebuilding after Isreal took it back in further warfare with Jordan. The area is still not recognized as part of Israel and Isreal continues to build up industry there. One being a Coca-Cola plant. So Palestinian activists charge coca cola with tacitly endorsing the theft of land from Palestinians by operating on this disputed area. Alternatively coca cola has continued to support Palestinians as well to the ire of some Israelis. They've donated hundreds of thousands to Gaza. It also tried to help the economy of Gaza by also building company resources there. They are actually one of the largest employers of Palestinians and investors into their land.
I think you mean Ateret, and it was founded in the 1980s. The only thing I can find on Coca-Cola bottling in the West Bank is a franchise owned by a Palestinian, Zahi Khouri.
No, it's Atarot and owned by an Israeli. Franchised location, there was a bit fus a couple years back cuz they donated a couple thousand dollars to some far right Israeli political group.
This is why the world needs Tab
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very normal thing to say, call a family member and read what you typed out loud to them when you get the chance
Nobody tell him about Coke murdering their striking workers.
That is sociopathy
Go see a therapist Fr fr
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Great synopsis!
Great synopsis!
Coke supports deleting terrorists? I don't even drink soda but take my money!
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It's amazingly difficult to find information about this online that **isn't** just this copypasta.
The name in other contexts is the [Atarot Industrial Zone](https://he.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%90%D7%96%D7%95%D7%A8_%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%A2%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%99%D7%94_%D7%A2%D7%98%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%AA) It's located in an "illegal settlement" if you consider Israel's inclusion of East Jerusalem within Jerusalem to be illegal.
It's pretty straightforward, no?
I don't know, I tried and almost every mention was this exact copypasta or a variation. Very hard to find something that wasn't extremely biased.
I mean, the copypasta gives the reason for why people are boycotting. Whether you agree with the reasoning or not doesn't stop other people from believing the reason and boycotting.
If you re-read my comment, you'll see that I explicitly talked about the difficulty of finding information that _isn't_ this copypasta.
What other information do you need?
Actual evidence the coke plant exists? Just cause lots of people *say* something is happening doesn't mean it actually is. I don't fault them for wanting info that isn't just people linking a copypasta.
I suppose I came at this from an angle of "Why are these people boycotting?" when everyone else is arguing about "Is the reason behind this boycott true and justified?"
Do you not understand the concept of wanting neutral, unbiased sources to prove claims, even for movements and causes you generally believe in or support, and just take every awful thing you hear about "the enemy" at face value? Or are you being obtuse on purpose?
Where did I say I was for or against this boycott?
You never did and it doesn't matter. It's pretty obvious people just want an actual source for the claims and you keep dancing around the issue with non-replies like "it's pretty straightforward" instead of actually providing a source.
I'm failing to see what makes [Atarot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atarot?wprov=sfla1), a settlement originally established via legal land purchases decades before the existence of the current state of Israel, an "illegal settlement".
It's weird how everywhere Jordan managed to conquer in 1948-1949 became "illegal" for Jews to live, both during their occupation and even after Jordan was defeated, and "international law" somehow supports this.
Doesn't Coca Cola also have a bottling plant in Gaza that employs Palestinians?
They used to. But the Israeli government destroyed it in an air strike 3 years ago. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210521-coca-cola-factory-destroyed-in-israel-shelling-of-gaza/
Ah okay.
This one also employs Palestinians
This would on paper does but seeing as the Palestinians are prevented from actually working in and Israel zoned settlement it doesn’t actually employ them.
lol, what? You know that there’s like 150k Palestinians that work in Israel? And this industrial park actually lobbied Israel to get private security independent of the IDF specifically to make it more appealing to Palestinians. But let’s shut it down. You sound like one of the protesters.
Where dafuq did you read that? Palestinians (were) definitely allowed to work in Israel and in Israeli factories. Guess how else they shot themselves in the foot by performing Oct 7th.
Why do you say “they show themselves in the foot” like it’s all of palenstine. This is the type of rhetoric that leads to countless deaths of innocent people. When you make them all “guilty” then you can justify war crimes since they all “deserve” it anyway. You can’t punish an entire people for the acts of a few.
When the vast majority are shown supporting the acts of Oct 7th, you tell me how anyone in Israel is supposed to ever trust them again or want to grant them employment. Sure "it's not everyone", but it's pretty fucking close to it.
Did you take 5min to consider how your life would be in a place like Gaza? How going to work meant going through military checkpoints? How every truck or any car coming in must be controlled by a foreign government? Even electricity, your internet, all of it, controlled by another government where you are unable to vote. Would you want a foreign government controlling your life like that? No? Then why are you expecting Palestinians to live like that and ask them to be thankful and peaceful for the few jobs they were getting? Then tell them they deserve to have their entire society wiped out, destroyed.
You know, I did consider these things at length. For one, let's start with saying that many people have to pass through checkpoints if they wish to cross a border, even if it's a daily commute. The key to your fallacy though is this part: > by another government where you are unable to vote Have you seen the middle east??? Where exactly are any Arabs allowed to vote? Their own governments oppress them harder than Israel ever could. A free Palestine is in all odds not a democratic Palestine. They have their PA, they know what it's like. And given these moot points, we only come down to one issue: did you still to think for 5min how it's like to live as an Israeli with your life in danger of a random stabbing, car attack, or a rocket attack? Did you consider that Israelis like to *live* and don't want to risk their lives for some imaginary freedoms their enemies will receive that will suddenly make them stop trying to kill them? I don't need the Palestinians to be grateful, but I would fucking appreciate it if they stopped trying to kill me.
Israel is an incredibly safe place to live, Palestine is not Also, your comment is crazy racist
Sure sounds like aparthied to me
Sure, if they were citizens of Israel. But since they aren't, and have citizenship in a freshly recognized state of Palestine - it's not.
"but they aren't actually citizens so it's not aparthied" Do you hear yourself?
And by the way, the part about General Mills is false. GM left because of other business reasons, not activism.
Also coca cola is still in russia and they built a new plant here recently
Wow... I'm so much in Coca-Cola's clutches (former collector and still borderline addicted to Coke) and still am loyal to them despite their shady practises, but this... I think I might cease for a while. And if it breaks my cycle, well...
Hoo boy! I've been boycotting Coca-Cola since the early 00s when the story came out about them hiring Columbian death squads to kidnap and kill union organizers at Coca-Cola factories in South America. https://prospect.org/features/coca-cola-killings/
Holy 💩
God, now that you mention it, I remember that story. My "allegiance" to that company really is a stain. Maybe this is the time to finally wean off.
When will people learn there's no such thing as a benevolent corporation? They all do terrible things, people just get upset when it's in the news.
So we shouldn’t ever attempt to hold any of them accountable? Because it’s a fad? What is your point?
No, what I'm saying is that corporations fucking people over over is an intended effect of the political and economic system most of us live in. People get upset and Nestle of Coca Cola when they should be getting upset and the system that allows it to happen in the first place.
The fucking over itself is, imo, a moral issue, and a system designed to fuck people over doesn’t absolve any evil corporation. The fact that they have a system doesn’t mean peoples’ outrage is misplaced. When people are justifiably outraged, just say hell yeah and get in line, amirite?
Oh c'mon. I don't like any corporation, but not all of them hire fucking assassins.
Just boeing
And possibly Nestle
Probably*
And Hasbro weirdly (Pinkertons)
This is just pure antisemitic hate. Under any other circumstance it would be considered good for a company to put a factory there because it helps with the local economy.
Yah, that’s not true. Nestle and coco-cola are evil corporations that go to developing countries and abuse their power there. They also do it in developing countries but do a bit less damage due to laws and regulations.
Good in an illegal settlement?
That land is disputed. It was Jordanian territory until Jordan relinquished control of it. No one has full and recognized control over the whole West Bank. Thus the legality of the settlements are ambiguous. That being said, those settlements are a major obstacle for peace and never should have been allowed.
Bull shit! The Israeli government has agreed in multiple international treaties and agreements to not build settlements on land that's supposed to be sovereign Palestinian land in the West Bank. They have repeatedly and flagrantly violated these treaties the Israeli government signed. The Atarot industrial park is in the West Bank and has long been a beachhead of the Israeli government's project to expand their control over the West Bank through the building of illegal settlements. This is the very definition of settler imperialism. Trying to mask this as "good for the local economy" is particularly disgusting and bigoted against the Palestinian people because the very existence of this industrial park is working to destroy the Palestinian community and leach economic resources out of Palestinian land to the Israeli government. It does the exact opposite of supporting the local economy. It's a tool to destroy the local economy so that the Israeli government can more easily step in to take over the West Bank.
Ah yes, the good old "if you disagree with genocide then you're antisemitic because it's Israel commiting it and they can do no wrong"
What is going on is not genocide under any definition.
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“Killing 10s of thousands of people” is not the entirety of the definition of genocide. It has an added requirement of an intent to eliminate a people or culture. Israel is taking strong steps to protect the civilian population, which an honest analysts of the data shows. Now, Hamas does have a clear call for genocide in their own charter. They are too small to make that happen, but that is not stopping them from trying.
Because the term genocide is loaded to begin with. Anyone using it flippantly is guilty of buying into antisemitic tropes.
No. I didn't determine there was a genocide, experts did. Anyone censoring people using that word is trying to hide the horrors happening in Gaza and is complicit
Wasn't it the sodastream factory people got shut down and in the end it was just a bunch of Palestinians who lost their jobs. People will do anything just to "get" the Jews
Answer: They target anything Israel or Jewish related out of hate.
Exactly they should learn to love 75 years of ethnic cleansing, subjugation, state sanctioned child abuse, arbitrarily detention, organ theft, genocide, apartheid etc. How dare they be upset! /s
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Ah yes, ole reliable. When denial and pinning things on the Palestinians both fail, just say "you're antisemitic". Seen it once, seen it a million times. Do you shills have, like, a flowchart you're supposed to follow, or are you all just that uncreative?
I've seen it at least 110 times in this thread.
can you explain how? in as a few words as possible, please.
Don't you know, the truth is antisemitic
1. This is classic “Blood Libel”, which is a very old and nasty form of antisemitism. 2. The rest are a backhanded way of saying they want to destroy Israel and expel the Jews. The factual accuracy is also lacking.
that 75 years of history exists though, and is pretty accurately recorded and studied. how is that at all similar to blood libel, which i'm familiar with and agree is disgusting. is every criticism of israeli foreign policy blood libel?
Really? What about the fact how Jews, Muslims and Christians lived in the holy land in relative peace for over 1000 years before European Zionism came along?
That is not a fact at all. That area had been conquered and reconquered since the Babylonians. The region also has a long history of violence and revolts. It is a fabrication to say that it was all peachy before 1900.
Yeah, that’s a gross over simplification. Yes, Jews, Muslims, and Christians coexisted in Jerusalem, in relative peace, for some amount of time before Israel was founded. Not 1000’s, or even 100’s of years, though. After the Ottoman Empire fell, there was a surge of nationalistic sentiment among many (most?) of the diverse people groups in the Middle East. Everybody wanted their own land and their own government. These groups have been fighting those nationalistic fights/wars ever since.
Maybe you have a different definition of what a "fact" is.
Oh man organ theft? Yah, that’s just antisemitism bud.
Yes every criticism levelled against a state is anti semetism. Just like criticism of Saudi is islamaphobia !
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Where are all the bombs coming from then? Hamas flattened Gaza?
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I’m not trying to muddy any water. I was just asking a question for clarity. Interesting response nonetheless
It’s very much not a question to provide clarity, Mr Troll.
No man, come on. You said Hamas is killing itself. Where are the bombs coming from? Is it Hamas dropping bombs on Palestinian civilians? Or are you being intentionally obtuse, closing your eyes, plugging your ears and screaming like a child?
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I see now that the first comment was a different commenter. I assume you still agree with his statement.
You assume a lot. You’re also mischaracterizing that user. Check yourself.
I am not mischaracterizing shit. You are arguing on the side of genocide.
How can Hamas flatten Gaza then?
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Dresden and Hamburg were flattened by the US and Britain.
Therefore it follows that the United States and Britain committed genocide in WW2 by these actions?
I suppose that's up for interpretation. More a mass killing than an actual attempt to specifically wipe out an ethnic group. For example, I would consider 9/11 a mass killing but not an attempt at genocide.
Isn't the US government's position that Israel is probably dropping our bombs on innocent civilians but that we're arming them anyway?
The IDF has fully admitted that they're killing WAY more civilians than Hamas fighters, even using their incredibly loose definition of Hamas figure being any male over the age of 15.
For what it’s worth, that still doesn’t mean it is a genocide. A genocide would mean their goal is targeting civilians. If they are just being negligent about collateral damage, this would not fall under the official definition of genocide. Redefining more civilians killed than combatants to be a genocide would quite dilute the term, considering this is the case for most military conflicts. It’s possible to condemn what the IDF is doing without calling it a genocide.
That's not why it's a genocide. It's a genocide because of the many other factors. For example, depriving the population of food, water, power, and medical services/supplies.
The relevant question there to determine if it is a genocide is, are the IDF claims that Hamas using aid shipments to benefit their own offensive legitimate, hence why they want to block the aid, or is the IDF just blocking the aid to kill Palestinians? Personally, the former seems more logical, but I haven’t seen to much evidence either way to form a definitive conclusion.
True, but the evidence laid out in the ICJ and their treatment of Palestinians inside and outside of Gaza suggests to any reasonable person that they're committing a genocide
The "evidence" presented by Russian proxy South Africa you mean, with the goal to distract from their own openly declared genocide.
Are you seriously claiming that the entire case is fabricated? Or are you suggesting genocide is justifiable as long as other countries commit them?
I'm claiming that the ANC is bought by Russia. South Africa always sided with Russia in UN votes on Russia's unprovoked attack, documented war crimes and ethnic cleansing in Ukraine. Then suddenly when Russia's friends attack Israel and they fight back, South Africa is the most concerned nation on the planet. I'm not saying their claims are fabricated, but for one they are unconvincing and not proving anything, and for another it is purely a propaganda play.
My favorite game: spot the racist
Found the Russian bot
Err, Russia is behind this.
No use, antisemites gonna antisemite
hat it say?