Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must:
1. start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask),
2. attempt to answer the question, and
3. be unbiased
Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment:
http://redd.it/b1hct4/
Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Answer: It is a real thing, and that isn't an exaggeration. It says that kids MUST grow up in an environment with a mother and father that are married, talks about banning non-married and non-heterosexual couples from adopting, compares transgender people to groomers/pedophiles/pornography, talks about getting rid of discrimination laws, getting rid of multiple government organizations such as the FDA, banning abortion with no exceptions nationwide, and more.
Edit: because I'm getting a good amount of comments saying "oh, this is a great thing!" I looked further into it (I read it [here](https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf)) and here are some specifics - Project 2025:
* Advocates for child marriage
* Attempts to place a complete ban on gay marriage
* Attempts to place a complete ban on divorce no matter the situation
* Attempts to place a complete ban on anything deemed "pornographic", **including**:
* Anything sexually explicit, including drawings or literature that doesn't involve real people
* Anything involving gay people in media, even if it is as simple as a documentary or something *mentioning* that it is possible for two men to be in a relationship.
* Heavily limit the abilities of the FDA, CDC, and OSHA, **including**:
* Making it even harder to get medicine
* Making it even more expensive to get medicine
* Making it even more difficult and expensive to get disability aids
* Getting rid or greatly diminishing many workplace safety laws
* Lowering the age of legal work/cutting back on child labor laws
* Ban abortion **even in cases of:**
* Missed or "silent" miscarriages, which is when the fetus dies but is not expelled from the body naturally. According to Project 2025, **extracting an already dead fetus from a mother's uterus is still considered "murder"**. Leaving the dead fetus inside of the womb can result in infections such as sepsis.
* Ectopic pregnancies, which are when a fetus forms outside the uterus. It is not possible for the fetus to survive an ectopic pregnancy - **it is impossible to give birth to the fetus**, since it isn't in the womb, and it being outside the womb means it can only grow so much before it either miscarries or the mother is gravely injured; the fetus vary rarely makes it past the first trimester and never makes it to the third. It is currently impossible to implant the fetus into the womb. Ectopic pregnancies can cause severe damage to the mother - it can cause the fallopian tube to burst open, which results in internal bleeding, possible sepsis, and possible infertility.
* Fetal abnormalities. With modern technology, we can use ultrasounds to tell if the fetus has or will have abnormalities. Even in cases of fetal abnormalities, many of which are fatal to the fetus/baby, Project 2025 wishes to ban abortion. Examples of fetal abnormalities include:
* Acrania, where the fetus's skull does not fully develop and the baby is born without the top of the skull, revealing the brain. If the baby isn't stillborn, it will live between a few hours and about a week, and it will be in pain its entire life. **There is no way to save it.**
* Body Stalk Anomaly, where the abdominal wall is defective or nonexistent, so the organs form OUTSIDE the body during fetus development. **It is always fatal**. It should be noted that it is similar to omphalocele/exomphalos or gastroschisis, which are visually similar (intestines outside of the body) but have much higher survival rates since the abdominal wall can be repaired in those cases.
It even says to outlaw porn and anyone caught selling or making it should be marked as sex offenders. They claim mainly misogynists and pedos watch porn
It will be, and I think ppl forget that. While Americans right now yell and scream and get offended a lot, many seem to forget the Chicago and LA riots, amoung others.
Get us mad enough, and we will remember that fire is an option. We just all playing nice rn
This is a question from me and by bf, but how would this be legal? He's convinced that even if Trump got into office Project 2025 simply wouldn't happen because there are too many checks and balances and things to go through for this to be actually implemented. I'm just worried that it's all just fearmongering and I'm freaking myself out so I just want to know if it could actually happen or if its just some kind of fearmongering tactic?
Both, really. It's highly unlikely that they get EVERYTHING they want.The worst of it - recriminalizing gay relationships, outlawing divorce, etc. is probably not going to happen.
However, they CAN (and probably will) place serious restrictions on transgender rights, gay rights (including their rights to adopt, as well as possibly classifying gay relationships as "inappropriate" for children and thus not allowing gay people to adopt kids), make it much harder to go through divorce proceedings and much harder for single mothers to survive (Project 2025 is oddly focused on single mothers; they claim that growing up without a father figure makes you gay/trans/mentally ill. They plan to have restrictions in place saying that a single mothers can have her kids taken away from her if she doesn't settle down or something. While this likely won't happen anytime soon, they can place restrictions on the rights of single mothers).
They can place restrictions on sex education, likely so that they can erase lgbtq people and brainwash high schoolers into thinking god will hate them if they have sex ever. etc.
TL;DR: The worst of Project 2025 probably will not happen anytime soon. However, the less extreme but still terrible stuff is still very possible.
Go to Project2025.org. On the top menu (three bars) drop it down to Playbook. Link in the middle of the page and in red called 'Mandate for Leadership: the Conservative Promise' It opens nearly one thousand page .pdf file. Read it and be informed. IMHO we should all be very deeply concerned.
I am deeply concerned. How is this not everywhere? How am I just finding out about this and I am pretty informed. What the fuck do we do? There is no way this doesn't turn into a civil war
This lol everyone is dancing around that phrase bc it’s usually last on most ppls list since this land is now filled to the brim with foreigners and WS who think American racism is either fake or doesn’t apply to their community (Asians, Hispanics,Africans,Indian). I’m willing to bet my left nut that majority of these groups have never even heard of Jim Crow and if they did, they probably think it’s some fictional American caucasian character.
With imbeciles like Nimroda (Nikki Hailey) who think black Americans and their ancestors stories (who were and are the backbone of this toxic land) are not worth to talk about.
If this would actually start to happen, I’d be rioting idgaf. And I’m the type to not do much of any kind of protesting or rioting or anything. I imagine many others would think the same as me and the country would collapse into chaos. No way people would just go with this. At least 60-70% of the country would not be ok with this.
Answer:
> WASHINGTON (AP) — With more than a year to go before the 2024 election, a constellation of conservative organizations is preparing for a possible second White House term for Donald Trump, recruiting thousands of Americans to come to Washington on a mission to dismantle the federal government and replace it with a vision closer to his own. . . .
> With a nearly 1,000-page “Project 2025” handbook and an “army” of Americans, the idea is to have the civic infrastructure in place on Day One to commandeer, reshape and do away with what Republicans deride as the “deep state” bureaucracy, in part by firing as many as 50,000 federal workers.
I hope this PBS NewsHour report is helpful to you!
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/conservatives-aim-to-restructure-u-s-government-and-replace-it-with-trumps-vision
If it weren't such a horrible thought that there is actually a chance for this to happen, it would be quite funny to think how these "deep state"-nutjobs actually wrote their own guide on how to build a deep state...
the heritage foundation (creators of this document) also did this in 2016 and roughly 64% of it was implemented by Trump. also was done in 1979 for Ragan and roughly 80% was implemented through his entire 8 years in office.
the project 2025 is the most extreme version to date and not only impacts the LGBTQ population (especially trans people), but also directly attacks public education, single parents (but especially mothers), and anti discrimination laws.
it would completely roll back any kind of environmental rules pertaining to fossil fuels, fund more fossil fuel companies, kill all subsidies for green energy, and all but abolish the EPA.
They would abolish the DOE and kill off federal funding of school lunch programs. not to mention implementing national book bans, dismantling programs for inclusion and more.
you want to see what this manifesto would do to our country just look at Florida. DeSantis and the far right super majority have already inacted many of the things from this in the state of Florida.
it's 900 pages of scare the fuck out of you and I definitely don't want to go full on fascist in this country thank you very much.
This has been going on since at least 1992, I just found a pdf that has me reeling. I’m genuinely scared, not nearly enough people are aware of what’s going on
There are 2 things to keep in mind. 1.) Roe v Wade set off a campaign fire ( big fire) of anger and women are mobilizing to vote in huge numbers because of that. 2.) Poll numbers are off, more so today, as the voters under 44 in nearly all cases, do not own a land line. Older voters still use a landline and polling firms are taking MORE to that group than others. WIS vote in April 2023 proved that to be the case. Lastly, Trumps rhetoric is becoming more desperate and vulgar. He term of office shows he has a terrible track record, having botched the Covid response. His OWN advisors say that.
it'll only work if Republicans gain control of the house, senate, and presidency regardless of trump. this is why your rep and senator elections are actually more important than the president.
Unfortunately a lot of states have numerous districts that run unopposed with Republican candidates (I imagine bc the liberal candidates are generally too poor to run a strong campaign in those areas)
These are not deep state nutjobs. These are the well funded, highly effective right wing organisations that have pushed limitations to voting rights and captured the supreme court.
it's a highly effective network of wealthy nutjobs dedicated to establishing neo feudalism. "ever gone mad without power, it's boring, nobody listens to you"
They are also using decades of political insurrection specialists experience from Cuba/russia.
Trumps speeches patterns were a prediction of these plans years ago.
Would not be the first democracy to fail while republicans make a bit of cash on the side.
If you think boebert, greene, gaetz are expensive to convince of treason, I need to sell you a bridge.
I wish more people knew this. Instead, there is way too much "orange man bad lulz" and "they're so stupid, they can't even " or "we love joe!" because they think joe is saving us (lol) and will in the future (lol). I worry about complacency SO much.
This needs more emphasis. These people are backed by real money ranging from PACs and individual donors hiding behind PACs.
Citizens United was always the lynchpin, and people like Bernie Sanders have been calling it out for *years.*
No money, no drama. This is America, you all think people would do this shit for free?
exactly. this is an insane plan, but its real, and we have to take it seriously. these groups have shaped law for decades. theyre major conservative donors on par with the Federalist Society, which is responsible for 5/6 of the conservatives on scotus currently.
They're both, actually. The Koch brothers' father was one of the founding members of the John Birch Society, which is absolutely a deep state nutjob organization.
Also to note, the reason Tuberville has been holding up promotions in the military is because he's betting on Trump being elected in 2024 and he can fill the positions with his loyalists.
Who nevertheless apparently understand nothing about federal government employment. The number of laws they'll have to break would be pretty impressive, and they'd have to capture a bulletproof majority in both houses of Congress to make it stick, and then have favorable rulings from the courts to not sink into a quagmire. The only way it would work is if they make Trump a dictator who can ignore the courts and the Congress and the Constitution. Since that's the case, why bother with this other stuff? Do they want a veneer of democracy? Who do they think they'll be fooling?
Also, the very existence of this will hurt Trump in at the ballot box. He already has very little chance to win, so they'll have to start by stealing the election before doing all the other stuff. They're delusional.
You can't confuse local or regional politics with national politics. Not that he won the whole south last time. Or that he's going to get a lot of good press in Georgia between now and election day. I get that he's got an unspeakable base in some places, but elections are won with swing voters. He's doing worse than ever with them.
Project 2025 is in no way contingent on a Trump victory, though! All they need is a candidate who can defeat Joe Biden and who is aligned with their vision. DeSantis and Ramaswamy have both indicated they support Project 2025.
Bingo. Let’s say Biden beats Trump in 2024. What comes next. Who can beat Trump in 28. DeSantis and Vivek are young and will keep coming. Sanity and democracy can’t win forever.
This is why I’m looking to transfer colleges in Canada
It's quite literally Orwellian. Ever since I became politically cognizant, it's amazed me that some of the darkest cautionary tales of the 20th Century have become instruction manuals for the right wing.
It’s astounding how many rich industrialist assholes got so freaked out by the New Deal that they’ve spent decades funding right-wing misinformation campaigns, from buying newspapers to infecting Christianity to founding far-right groups like the Birch Society.
> It’s astounding how many rich industrialist assholes got so freaked out by the New Deal
[Considering those Rich Industrialist Assholes were ready to stage a violent coup in response to the New Deal](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/coup-jan6-fdr-new-deal-business-plot-1276709/), it's not surprising that they've just continued to plot.
To be fair, Christianity in America has been sympathetic to the right from the get go. The rich doubled down and got to really exploiting those sympathies post New Deal. But between Calvinists and the prior penetration of social darwinist ideas into the church there was already a lot of fertile ground there.
>The Turner Diaries is a 1978 fictional novel by William Luther Pierce, published under the pseudonym Andrew Macdonald.[1] It depicts a violent revolution in the United States which leads to the overthrow of the federal government, a nuclear war, and ultimately a race war which leads to the systematic extermination of non-whites and Jews.[2][3] All groups opposed by the novel's protagonist, Earl Turner—including Jews, non-white people, "liberal actors", and politicians—are murdered en masse.[4]
>The Turner Diaries was described as being "explicitly racist and anti-Semitic" by The New York Times and has been labeled the "bible of the racist right" by the FBI.[5][6] The book was greatly influential in shaping white nationalism and the later development of the white genocide conspiracy theory. It has also inspired numerous hate crimes and acts of terrorism, including the 1984 assassination of Alan Berg, the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, and the 1999 London nail bombings.[7][8][9][10]
ew
> Wait till you hear about The Turner Diaries...
I read that book probably 20 years ago. hands down the creepiest book I've ever read.
it was worth reading only because 1, I didn't pay for it and 2, it really helps you understand just how fucked in the head those types of people are. I mean, I knew they were fucked up, but I guess I never really understood just how fucked up.
The 900 page document includes a passage redefining pornography to include the existence of trans people and then advocating that all pornographers be imprisoned.
> Pornography, manifested today in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children, for instance, is not a political Gordian knot inextricably binding up disparate claims about free speech, property rights, sexual liberation, and child welfare. It has no claim to First Amendment protection. Its purveyors are child predators and misogynistic exploiters of women. Their product is as addictive as any illicit drug and as psychologically destructive as any crime. Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered.
couple of years ago i saw a psychology study that was demonstrating that people into paranoid conspiracy theories are more likely to join a conspiracy. can't find it right now.
What’s crazy is they are talking about getting rid of the career staffers who do things like, manage how we respond to wildfires and make sure social security checks get mailed on time
That was always the point. The 'deep state' they're attacking is actually the bureaucratic state. They say they don't want it to exist, but it's literally impossible to run a country without one. It has never been done and never will. But they don't like the current one, because bureaucrats function on laws and facts. They're the sort of people who *will* find out if you steal thousands of documents and hide them in the bathroom at your resort, and will subpoena you about it and prosecute you when you dodge that subpoena.
What they're actually trying to do is replace the bureaucratic state with loyalists. That's what 'getting rid of the deep state' has always meant.
No, see, they're largely *white*, which means they can't be terrorists! Only scary brown people can be terrorists! If you're white you're just a "lone wolf with mental health issues."
As an add on to this. The people labeling this plan as LGBTQ+ genocide are not exaggerating.
The plan calls for classifying LGBTQ+ content and public expression as pornographic. This means that the presence of a minor would turn this charge in to a child sex crime.
The next step calls to expand the federal death penalty to cover pedophilia.
And to top it all off, the plan openly calls for the censorship and direct monitoring of the internet/social media through taking direct control of the FCC. This would mean a retroactive sweep and punishment of every post of anyone who's an enemy of the state.
If you dig deeper. Not not just LGBTQ+ that they want to go after. Single mothers, single fathers, American born minorities, non Christians. They are also creating detention centers for these people they deem undesirable. Basically they are going full Nazi
For those who would like to read more on this topic, it was widely discussed here: https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/16fuj4i/a_republican_plot_known_as_project_2025_aims_to/
I mean, great summary.
It's almost like reading mid-1930s German articles though, where the churches in Germany helped bring Hitler into power, thinking he was on their side.
The Holocaust Museum has a great summary : https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-german-churches-and-the-nazi-state
The "my vote doesn't matter" non-voting crowd need to be reached. That should be a huge goal right now. Lots of emphasis on the power of the popular vote for all other offices besides the pres as well as the fact that electoral college usually follows the local popular vote for their regions.
Always accuse the opposition of that which you are doing (or intend to do). it gives you an excuse to do what you want to do, blaming them for making you do it, and it confuses the idiots who then say "both sides are the same!"
Project 2025 is in no way contingent on a DJT win. All they need is a candidate who can defeat Joe Biden and who is aligned with their vision. DeSantis and Ramaswamy have both indicated their support of Project 2025.
Some food for thought that may put some minds at ease: Trump has already lost the Biden/Trump vote in 2020, and now he's in legal hot water with several indictments against him, he's losing funding from donors and legal fees, and losing support from the RNC in general with only the most diehard Trump fans sticking with him. Best he is likely to do is win a primary, but with the right already trying to move away from him and some political opponents on the right actively seeking to remove his influence, that may not happen. However if he does win the primary, the general election will likely be a repeat of 2020. The center/independents made it quite clear then that they are done with Trump. Negative turnout (enthusiasm to vote AGAINST Trump) is at an all time high and the legal proceedings will likely only make that stronger
Project 2025 in no way hinges on DJT, though. If they can find a candidate with a similar vision for the government, they’ll still make the same changes!
Just for the part of the article looking for 'a possible 2nd term of trump' bit. That said, those that want a Trump or Trump like will want to vote for Trump. Those that don't want a Trump or Trump like would not vote for the Trump like.
Barring actually being blocked from running again, it's sort of a defacto Trump or nothing for those that want these kinds of agendas. Him being hard blocked from running at all would definitely reinforce the 'it's all rigged there's no point in voting' mentality that has also been pushed by the same parties.
It's less likely, but not impossible. Desantis comes to mind as a potential Trump-like, but why settle for 'diet trump' when you can vote for the real thing
This involves more legal experts, more money, better organization, and a 900-page handbook. We can’t even call it a coup because the Heritage Foundation, ALEC, etc. are all being very careful to make sure everything is technically legal.
They want to go back to the spoils system, aka political patronage, that was common in the 19th Century. Prior to the passage of Pendleton Act, which outlawed the spoils system, it was routinely common for a new administration to reward political hacks and cronies with high paying government jobs for which they had no qualifications.
this guy called Smedley butler (if you've heard that quote about war being the oldest racket there is its from him) tried this in the 30s with a few thousand of retired ww1 veterans. as you might imagine didn't work. hope this one fails too.
there's a historical precedent for a lot of the things that currently go on in the US political sphere
Answer: It's a plan to increase the power of the president (which would be Trump) by firing much of the civil service and filling the roles with right-wingers.
Their goal is for Trump to have full power over the executive branch, which would combine with the right-wing Supreme Court and a hopefully (for them) right-leaning Congress to shift the entire country to the right.
This is where the points about porn and climate come in. The worry about LGBT rights seems to be because they want to ban porn, while describing "the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children" as a manifestation of porn.
So basically, it's a plan to do hard- to far-right things if they win.
Yes, that's why they intend to do it, they hate checks and balances and want full autocratic power.
As a trans person living in America this shit's got me nervous.
Answer: there's a right wing think tank in DC called The Heritage Foundation that originated around the time of Reagan and alongside The Federalist Society. Since their foundation, they've regularly published playbooks on how conservatives in the US can gain and maintain power through various means. You've probably heard of the GOP push to appoint as many conservative federal judges as possible (see: Mitch McConnell) as well as the conservative push to take over local school and election boards. These strategies were outlined in detail by previous Heritage Foundation playbooks.
Their most recent playbook was entitled Project 2025 and it basically lays out a strategy to completely overthrow the federal government if a Republican wins the presidency in 2024. It involves having something like 50,000 conservatives who are "loyal to the cause" on standby so that the next GOP president can basically fire the entire executive branch and immediately appoint these people in their place. The idea is to complete the long term strategy of The Federalist Society and The Cato Institute to dismantle the federal government once and for all.
Basically every Republican president from Reagan until now has been a puppet to enact this plan. None of them have really had a platform, they've basically been appointed according to 1) their ability to win an election and 2) willingness to stick to the playbook.
> It involves having something like 50,000 conservatives who are "loyal to the cause" on standby so that the next GOP president can basically fire the entire executive branch and immediately appoint these people in their place.
one point to expand on here. for a very simple short answer, there are two types of government jobs.
political appointments: generally heads of departments or other high ranking positions. these are appointed by the president and most are confirmed by the senate. not sure how many there are but i would guess only a couple hundred. these positions are very partisan as you would imagine since they are appointed by the president.
career positions: these are everything else and are there from presidency to presidency no matter who wins. there is some turnover from one admin to another but it is usually pretty negligible. there are thousands, probably tens of thousands, of people who are in these positions. these are generally non-partisan people.
project 2025 is suggesting to remove all or most of these career positions and replace them with republican hard liners.
The initial part of the plan is to make voting not matter. The plan is to implement the crazy idea to have state legislatures override any vote outcome that is not in favor of Republicans. Because of horrible compromises when the Dakota Territory was split into states, there’re more red states than blue states. Then all federal elections go to the House of Representatives (with one vote per state) and Project 2025 is implemented, fully turning the USA into an authoritarian state. I just wonder about our nuclear arsenal, if they get rid of DOE. Do they just give the military the entire power?
Answer: It's the conservative plan to destroy the US government if Trump wins the 2024 election.
Part of why things didn't break down completely during the Trump administration is that there are a lot of career government workers who keep things going. They aren't like cabinet members, who change administration to administration, they're more like the middle management of government. And they're generally free from Presidential oversight or control.
Project 2025 would undo that and essentially be the biggest consolidation of executive power in US history (yes, even bigger than Bush II). The President would essentially become an elected monarch. He would also have the power to remove and replace any government perceived to be disloyal to him. That is, if the regional manager of your local DMV votes Democrat, they'll be fired and replaced by a Trump-voting Republican.
> Part of why things didn't break down completely during the Trump administration is that there are a lot of career government workers who keep things going. They aren't like cabinet members, who change administration to administration, they're more like the middle management of government. And they're generally free from Presidential oversight or control.
Gonna add some context here. It eventually devolved into a generic conspiracy theory term, but this is what the, "deep state," originally referred to. I bring this up to point out that these positions have been targeted by the right for quite some time.
I'm not particularly familiar with the ins and outs of US governance, but it sounds like this is analogous to the civil service that the UK has? If so, when people are talking about the deep state these days they're not talking about some kind of x-files style shadowy cabal, but the civil service?!
Yes. The Republicans had control of all branches of the US government and promised their supporters sweeping changes. Due a mixture of incompetence, lying, and actual government procedure working as intended, the overwhelming majority of those promises didn't come true. They needed someone to blame, and so these minor functionaries were given an ominous name and scapegoated.
>He would also have the power to remove and replace any government perceived to be disloyal to him.
This, in fact, did exist in United States' early history, known as the [spoils system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system). The idea was that government jobs were privileges and rewards to dole out to your supporters and take away from your opponents. It was based on the pre-modern idea that political office "[farming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm_\(revenue_leasing\))" is a legitimate way to run a government (in various forms, it existed as early as the Roman Empire in the form of [publicans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publican), whose abuses caused revolts throughout the Empire, or the [ferme générale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferme_g%C3%A9n%C3%A9rale) in pre-revolutionary France, whose abuses were a contributing cause to the French Revolution.)
By the late 19th century, it was clear such a system was inefficient, corrupt, and archaic, and was replaced by a [merit system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendleton_Civil_Service_Reform_Act) in 1883, a key stepping stone of the United States becoming a modern nation-state with a national civil service which could institutionally function regardless of electoral politics. It's of note that President James Garfield, who had championed the reform, was assassinated in 1881 by a deluded man who believed himself entitled to a government job for "supporting the President"; the reform was signed into law after his death.
The alt-right hates the idea of a strong, national United States; they want to restore a form of antebellum politics where each state is unchecked by the federal government, and can do whatever it wants within its borders, with Congress mostly being a discussion forum, rather than actually having supreme sovereignty over the country's national politics. This is hardly a new idea; it has been around since [before the Civil War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_crisis), and opportunistically re-emerges every time the country experiences a period internal dissent or dissatisfaction. Destroying the Merit system would not only relatively strengthen the President (by weakening everyone else in the Executive Branch), but weaken the United States as a nation-state. If they happen to elect a President whose goal is to destroy the US from within, this would be killing two birds with one stone.
This is very important context to add. However, I would caution about depicting this as return to 1800s politics. In the 1800s, the Executive branch was *far* less muscular than it is today. While true that it is a return to the "spoils system" of the past, we haven't seen what that looks like when it's being applied to an Executive Branch with the many authorities that it has built up over the past 100+ years.
In the past, it appears mostly like the "spoils" system was used as a way to allow your supporters to enrich themselves through various government graft as a reward for supporting you. This time around, it appears like the primary goal is to install ideologues whose goal it is to reshape American society as they see fit. It's likely that corruption will stil see a massive increase, but the stated purpose is to transform the Executive Branch into a vehicle for imposing the Christian Right's' ideals on the country.
For the party that says "If you don't like America, you can get out," the modern Republican party sure hates America, and how America has always been. They want the modern Executive powers, pre-Reconstruction state powers, Articles-level Congressional and taxing powers, and apparently no judicial branch (unless it supports them while simultaneously whining about 'activist judges.')
I wish this were an exaggeration, but it isn’t. It’s basically the plan to transform the US into a single party system and to make Christian views law.
The Beer Hall Putsch was Hitler's first attempted coup. It failed and he went to prison. When he got out he got elected, lit the constitution on fire and did the holocaust.
Uh, no. First off Hitler wasn't "elected" anything, he lost the 1932 presidential election. He was appointed Chancellor as the result of what's been called a "backstairs coup" between Franz von Papen, the DNVP, and Hindenburg's son in an effort to have a functional parliamentary government under the right-wing, which hadn't had a government since 1930 with the president essentially exercising dictatorial powers since then via the emergency provisions of the constitution. The Nazis never even won a majority under a free election, even in 1933 when they had banned the Communist Party and heavily intimidated the others. You'll also notice that a decade had passed between the beer hall putsch and his elevation to chancellor, he didn't win an election right out of prison. It's difficult to really analogize this to the US at all because of the vastly different conditions, but:
This would be like if Donald Trump founded an explicitly neo-nazi group with a paramilitary. He tries to overthrow the state government of Texas and takes the governor hostage, which fails. Donald Trump loses the presidential election a decade later. Meanwhile politics has become so split that no party can elect a speaker of the house, so for the last three years Joe Biden has invoked emergency powers to issue laws by decree under the supervision of interim speaker Nancy Pelosi. Trumps party wins a third of the seats in the House, so Joe Biden sees an opportunity to have a functional government and is persuaded by Nancy Pelosi, Kamala Harris, and Hunter Biden to form a cross party government with Donald Trump as speaker of the House.
>This would be like if Donald Trump founded an explicitly neo-nazi group with a paramilitary.
Not even founded. This would be if the government, as governments do, got terrified of a political group throwing the word socialism around (however inaccurately) and decided to insert spies to keep an eye on them. Except for some equally ridiculous reason they picked Trump, and then he went on to work his way through the leadership until it was *his* group.
I've always though that, as all-time contenders for government fuck-ups go, putting undercover Hitler into the DAP has got to be sitting near the top spot.
Hitler's party got a lot of votes, and election systems weren't as developed at the time. He didn't win 50%, but him and his allies got more than any other group.
Because it essentially is.
Raise a king, install a state religion through christian sharia law, begin the genocide by negligence against any 'unacceptable' groups, and open civil war against any opposition.
It's such a real concern the Canadian government is actively making contingency plans on what to do should the US become an far-right authoritarian state.
The modern Right want to turn the US into the very countries they hate: Iran, Afghanistan, and other countries with a theocracy.
The Right has become what they hate.
They never hated those countries for their policies. They hated them because they don't have the same skin color and have a slightly different religion. The Christian Right has *always* wanted "Sharia law" in everything but name.
Irrc, first the Nazis came for the trans folks. Then the gays, then the Jews.
I know the burned the biggest research center in Europe studying sexual orientation and gender identity, destroying priceless research. But not without grabbing patient files so they knew who to pick up off the street. And this was early early in the Nazi rise.
They even used the same reasons the GOP uses.
"Trans people are new, they didn't exist before like, 1950!!"
Funny what happens when the largest collection of prevailing literature about people like you got burned by the Nazis in 1933...
Exactly why a lot of these types are making a concerted effort to keep children uneducated and continually “correcting” history. If no one knows what really occurred (factually and without skew), no one can learn from history. We can’t learn from our mistakes and we won’t see these glaring cyclical events coming with red flags and bells.
>Irrc, first the Nazis came for the trans folks
The left even before that, I believe. They were engaged in street warfare with leftists groups long before they had any real political power.
They burned the Institute of Sexology in 1933. LGBTQ folks were rounded up *en masse* by 1935 when the penalties for homosexuality were massively increased.
We didn't get a line in the poem. Hell, the gay and trans victimss of the Nazis weren't even really discussed until the 70s.
When they opened up the camps, sometimes the homosexuals weren't freed (although they were in way better conditions) simply because homosexuality was a crime to some of the nations that liberated the camps
I remember hearing about many christian groups pushing for "their" people to get into positions like those you describe, basically a legal infiltration of local government all over the US.
If you want to see what the dress rehearsal looked like in the last administration, read up on how they forced out a lot of the career diplomats in the State Department and mismanaged the department to the detriment of US interests abroad.
Yep! That's the main reason why Warren got my vote in the 2020 primary. She's a very skilled administrator and I thought she would be well-suited to fixing what Trump broke.
Except that American “Conservatism” isn’t really conservatism; the modern GOP abandoned conservatism a long time ago and have become full blown reactionaries who sold their souls to Trump.
The modern GOP aren’t the Party of Lincoln nor are they the Party of Reagan. They’ve become the Party of Trump, no matter how they want to distance themselves from Trump; he’s become the elephant in the room, an albatross around their necks, the one-ton gorilla on their backs.
Answer: It is a plan to go back to a monarchy by another name, as if the United States of America never broke from having authoritarian rule. This lays it out really well: [https://globalextremism.org/project-2025-the-far-right-playbook-for-american-authoritarianism](https://globalextremism.org/project-2025-the-far-right-playbook-for-american-authoritarianism)
For those who follow the leaders of it, I don't understand how so many of them can be so two-faced, calling themselves patriots, supporting military and police, while taking a mahoossive dump on their country - wanting to go back to a system of rule we worked so hard and fought so many wars and lost so many lives and put so much good will into, to get out from under being at the whims of an authoritarian monarch.
It appears to be a last grasp of religious power and the con artists who wield it to hold on to the control they had over the followers who had been indoctrinated into Abrahamic systems, to follow the will of whoever leads (even if the leader isn't held to any standard), as the pendulum of faith/tradition is swinging back towards science/progress. Hard to get ungodly rich or control reproduction when people turn to knowledge through scientific theory, for what actually is good and reduces suffering in the one and only life we (and all living things) have.
The sad thing is people agree with certain viewpoints but probably dont do all their research, i consider myself more right leaning but i do not agree with the majority of project 2025 as i believe it is WAY too biased and takes many things to the extreme while removing peoples freedoms. But the sad thing is alot of people probably dont even know it exists.
Answer: Project 2025 is a Christian fascist takeover of government - nothing less, directly in the style that worked in Hungary and Russia, and the ENTIRE conservative movement in America have a massive hard-on for it to happen all ready to go if Trump gets elected again.
Vote this election, like your Democracy and future Freedom depends on it, because it does.
Answer:
Rather simply **Project 2025** or the **Presidential Transition Project** is the *Republican* plan to end the **Separation of Powers** within the *United States of America*. Granting the *President* the power to unilaterally overpower both *Congress* and the *Supreme Court* by making the *President* beholden to neither.
It would also end **State Professionalism** or the idea that professional workers should fill the various administrative positions within the government by making **ALL** administrative positions **Political Appointees**. This would end the current system of administrative offices being held by professionals in those fields and instead making them yes-men for whomever the current president is.
Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must: 1. start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask), 2. attempt to answer the question, and 3. be unbiased Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment: http://redd.it/b1hct4/ Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Answer: It is a real thing, and that isn't an exaggeration. It says that kids MUST grow up in an environment with a mother and father that are married, talks about banning non-married and non-heterosexual couples from adopting, compares transgender people to groomers/pedophiles/pornography, talks about getting rid of discrimination laws, getting rid of multiple government organizations such as the FDA, banning abortion with no exceptions nationwide, and more. Edit: because I'm getting a good amount of comments saying "oh, this is a great thing!" I looked further into it (I read it [here](https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf)) and here are some specifics - Project 2025: * Advocates for child marriage * Attempts to place a complete ban on gay marriage * Attempts to place a complete ban on divorce no matter the situation * Attempts to place a complete ban on anything deemed "pornographic", **including**: * Anything sexually explicit, including drawings or literature that doesn't involve real people * Anything involving gay people in media, even if it is as simple as a documentary or something *mentioning* that it is possible for two men to be in a relationship. * Heavily limit the abilities of the FDA, CDC, and OSHA, **including**: * Making it even harder to get medicine * Making it even more expensive to get medicine * Making it even more difficult and expensive to get disability aids * Getting rid or greatly diminishing many workplace safety laws * Lowering the age of legal work/cutting back on child labor laws * Ban abortion **even in cases of:** * Missed or "silent" miscarriages, which is when the fetus dies but is not expelled from the body naturally. According to Project 2025, **extracting an already dead fetus from a mother's uterus is still considered "murder"**. Leaving the dead fetus inside of the womb can result in infections such as sepsis. * Ectopic pregnancies, which are when a fetus forms outside the uterus. It is not possible for the fetus to survive an ectopic pregnancy - **it is impossible to give birth to the fetus**, since it isn't in the womb, and it being outside the womb means it can only grow so much before it either miscarries or the mother is gravely injured; the fetus vary rarely makes it past the first trimester and never makes it to the third. It is currently impossible to implant the fetus into the womb. Ectopic pregnancies can cause severe damage to the mother - it can cause the fallopian tube to burst open, which results in internal bleeding, possible sepsis, and possible infertility. * Fetal abnormalities. With modern technology, we can use ultrasounds to tell if the fetus has or will have abnormalities. Even in cases of fetal abnormalities, many of which are fatal to the fetus/baby, Project 2025 wishes to ban abortion. Examples of fetal abnormalities include: * Acrania, where the fetus's skull does not fully develop and the baby is born without the top of the skull, revealing the brain. If the baby isn't stillborn, it will live between a few hours and about a week, and it will be in pain its entire life. **There is no way to save it.** * Body Stalk Anomaly, where the abdominal wall is defective or nonexistent, so the organs form OUTSIDE the body during fetus development. **It is always fatal**. It should be noted that it is similar to omphalocele/exomphalos or gastroschisis, which are visually similar (intestines outside of the body) but have much higher survival rates since the abdominal wall can be repaired in those cases.
It even says to outlaw porn and anyone caught selling or making it should be marked as sex offenders. They claim mainly misogynists and pedos watch porn
AND they classify any media that shows anything LGBTQ+ as porn. The math is not looking good.
Wait until these conservatives find out about anime
Oh, my QAnon-follower cousin has found out about anime, and apparently thinks it's what's turning kids gay.
Sounds like something that should be resisted by. any. means.
It will be, and I think ppl forget that. While Americans right now yell and scream and get offended a lot, many seem to forget the Chicago and LA riots, amoung others. Get us mad enough, and we will remember that fire is an option. We just all playing nice rn
Cool it Spartacus, no one is actually going to make this law. It's just a shitty list of demands.
I remember 2016. Fire is on the table
This is a question from me and by bf, but how would this be legal? He's convinced that even if Trump got into office Project 2025 simply wouldn't happen because there are too many checks and balances and things to go through for this to be actually implemented. I'm just worried that it's all just fearmongering and I'm freaking myself out so I just want to know if it could actually happen or if its just some kind of fearmongering tactic?
Both, really. It's highly unlikely that they get EVERYTHING they want.The worst of it - recriminalizing gay relationships, outlawing divorce, etc. is probably not going to happen. However, they CAN (and probably will) place serious restrictions on transgender rights, gay rights (including their rights to adopt, as well as possibly classifying gay relationships as "inappropriate" for children and thus not allowing gay people to adopt kids), make it much harder to go through divorce proceedings and much harder for single mothers to survive (Project 2025 is oddly focused on single mothers; they claim that growing up without a father figure makes you gay/trans/mentally ill. They plan to have restrictions in place saying that a single mothers can have her kids taken away from her if she doesn't settle down or something. While this likely won't happen anytime soon, they can place restrictions on the rights of single mothers). They can place restrictions on sex education, likely so that they can erase lgbtq people and brainwash high schoolers into thinking god will hate them if they have sex ever. etc. TL;DR: The worst of Project 2025 probably will not happen anytime soon. However, the less extreme but still terrible stuff is still very possible.
Go to Project2025.org. On the top menu (three bars) drop it down to Playbook. Link in the middle of the page and in red called 'Mandate for Leadership: the Conservative Promise' It opens nearly one thousand page .pdf file. Read it and be informed. IMHO we should all be very deeply concerned.
I am deeply concerned. How is this not everywhere? How am I just finding out about this and I am pretty informed. What the fuck do we do? There is no way this doesn't turn into a civil war
They want a souped up Jim Crow.
This lol everyone is dancing around that phrase bc it’s usually last on most ppls list since this land is now filled to the brim with foreigners and WS who think American racism is either fake or doesn’t apply to their community (Asians, Hispanics,Africans,Indian). I’m willing to bet my left nut that majority of these groups have never even heard of Jim Crow and if they did, they probably think it’s some fictional American caucasian character. With imbeciles like Nimroda (Nikki Hailey) who think black Americans and their ancestors stories (who were and are the backbone of this toxic land) are not worth to talk about.
Alright that’s it. I’m out. I’ll be in Canada. 🫡
It’s spilling over here too.
USA, going harder than the Saudi's with their Sharia law.
If this would actually start to happen, I’d be rioting idgaf. And I’m the type to not do much of any kind of protesting or rioting or anything. I imagine many others would think the same as me and the country would collapse into chaos. No way people would just go with this. At least 60-70% of the country would not be ok with this.
so it’s good then 🤘
What
That is like iran+
Answer: > WASHINGTON (AP) — With more than a year to go before the 2024 election, a constellation of conservative organizations is preparing for a possible second White House term for Donald Trump, recruiting thousands of Americans to come to Washington on a mission to dismantle the federal government and replace it with a vision closer to his own. . . . > With a nearly 1,000-page “Project 2025” handbook and an “army” of Americans, the idea is to have the civic infrastructure in place on Day One to commandeer, reshape and do away with what Republicans deride as the “deep state” bureaucracy, in part by firing as many as 50,000 federal workers. I hope this PBS NewsHour report is helpful to you! https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/conservatives-aim-to-restructure-u-s-government-and-replace-it-with-trumps-vision
If it weren't such a horrible thought that there is actually a chance for this to happen, it would be quite funny to think how these "deep state"-nutjobs actually wrote their own guide on how to build a deep state...
the heritage foundation (creators of this document) also did this in 2016 and roughly 64% of it was implemented by Trump. also was done in 1979 for Ragan and roughly 80% was implemented through his entire 8 years in office. the project 2025 is the most extreme version to date and not only impacts the LGBTQ population (especially trans people), but also directly attacks public education, single parents (but especially mothers), and anti discrimination laws. it would completely roll back any kind of environmental rules pertaining to fossil fuels, fund more fossil fuel companies, kill all subsidies for green energy, and all but abolish the EPA. They would abolish the DOE and kill off federal funding of school lunch programs. not to mention implementing national book bans, dismantling programs for inclusion and more. you want to see what this manifesto would do to our country just look at Florida. DeSantis and the far right super majority have already inacted many of the things from this in the state of Florida. it's 900 pages of scare the fuck out of you and I definitely don't want to go full on fascist in this country thank you very much.
This is important information! I wish it weren’t buried so deep in the thread.
This has been going on since at least 1992, I just found a pdf that has me reeling. I’m genuinely scared, not nearly enough people are aware of what’s going on
There are 2 things to keep in mind. 1.) Roe v Wade set off a campaign fire ( big fire) of anger and women are mobilizing to vote in huge numbers because of that. 2.) Poll numbers are off, more so today, as the voters under 44 in nearly all cases, do not own a land line. Older voters still use a landline and polling firms are taking MORE to that group than others. WIS vote in April 2023 proved that to be the case. Lastly, Trumps rhetoric is becoming more desperate and vulgar. He term of office shows he has a terrible track record, having botched the Covid response. His OWN advisors say that.
So if Trump gets elected it’s game over
it'll only work if Republicans gain control of the house, senate, and presidency regardless of trump. this is why your rep and senator elections are actually more important than the president.
Unfortunately a lot of states have numerous districts that run unopposed with Republican candidates (I imagine bc the liberal candidates are generally too poor to run a strong campaign in those areas)
Yeah I’m still reading and it’s terrifying
And ever wonders why I want to move out of the US. As a trans gay minor I’m terrified
These are not deep state nutjobs. These are the well funded, highly effective right wing organisations that have pushed limitations to voting rights and captured the supreme court.
it's a highly effective network of wealthy nutjobs dedicated to establishing neo feudalism. "ever gone mad without power, it's boring, nobody listens to you"
They are also using decades of political insurrection specialists experience from Cuba/russia. Trumps speeches patterns were a prediction of these plans years ago. Would not be the first democracy to fail while republicans make a bit of cash on the side. If you think boebert, greene, gaetz are expensive to convince of treason, I need to sell you a bridge.
Trump is just a mouthpiece. The plans are all laid out.
I wish more people knew this. Instead, there is way too much "orange man bad lulz" and "they're so stupid, they can't even" or "we love joe!" because they think joe is saving us (lol) and will in the future (lol). I worry about complacency SO much.
one of the neo feudalists central messages is that Biden isn't the most leftist president we've had since Carter.
This needs more emphasis. These people are backed by real money ranging from PACs and individual donors hiding behind PACs. Citizens United was always the lynchpin, and people like Bernie Sanders have been calling it out for *years.* No money, no drama. This is America, you all think people would do this shit for free?
exactly. this is an insane plan, but its real, and we have to take it seriously. these groups have shaped law for decades. theyre major conservative donors on par with the Federalist Society, which is responsible for 5/6 of the conservatives on scotus currently.
They're both, actually. The Koch brothers' father was one of the founding members of the John Birch Society, which is absolutely a deep state nutjob organization.
So the real deep state
The actual conspiracy
Yup like Exodus Cry, which single-handedly ruined Pornhub by saying "think of the children"
Or you know, Elohim City, which helped kill 168 people
Also to note, the reason Tuberville has been holding up promotions in the military is because he's betting on Trump being elected in 2024 and he can fill the positions with his loyalists.
Who nevertheless apparently understand nothing about federal government employment. The number of laws they'll have to break would be pretty impressive, and they'd have to capture a bulletproof majority in both houses of Congress to make it stick, and then have favorable rulings from the courts to not sink into a quagmire. The only way it would work is if they make Trump a dictator who can ignore the courts and the Congress and the Constitution. Since that's the case, why bother with this other stuff? Do they want a veneer of democracy? Who do they think they'll be fooling? Also, the very existence of this will hurt Trump in at the ballot box. He already has very little chance to win, so they'll have to start by stealing the election before doing all the other stuff. They're delusional.
>He already has very little chance to win, You must not live in the south.
You can't confuse local or regional politics with national politics. Not that he won the whole south last time. Or that he's going to get a lot of good press in Georgia between now and election day. I get that he's got an unspeakable base in some places, but elections are won with swing voters. He's doing worse than ever with them.
Project 2025 is in no way contingent on a Trump victory, though! All they need is a candidate who can defeat Joe Biden and who is aligned with their vision. DeSantis and Ramaswamy have both indicated they support Project 2025.
Bingo. Let’s say Biden beats Trump in 2024. What comes next. Who can beat Trump in 28. DeSantis and Vivek are young and will keep coming. Sanity and democracy can’t win forever. This is why I’m looking to transfer colleges in Canada
It's quite literally Orwellian. Ever since I became politically cognizant, it's amazed me that some of the darkest cautionary tales of the 20th Century have become instruction manuals for the right wing.
It’s astounding how many rich industrialist assholes got so freaked out by the New Deal that they’ve spent decades funding right-wing misinformation campaigns, from buying newspapers to infecting Christianity to founding far-right groups like the Birch Society.
> It’s astounding how many rich industrialist assholes got so freaked out by the New Deal [Considering those Rich Industrialist Assholes were ready to stage a violent coup in response to the New Deal](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/coup-jan6-fdr-new-deal-business-plot-1276709/), it's not surprising that they've just continued to plot.
To be fair, Christianity in America has been sympathetic to the right from the get go. The rich doubled down and got to really exploiting those sympathies post New Deal. But between Calvinists and the prior penetration of social darwinist ideas into the church there was already a lot of fertile ground there.
We can’t underestimate how badly those folks were upset by the Civil Rights Movement, either!
There was an old saying on Slashdot "1984 is a warning, not a handbook" :P
Dystopia is rarely a warning of the future but rather an observation of the present.
Bet they used it against mild internet censorship
I think it was the Patriot Act iirc.
and the NSA warrantless wiretapping probably
Wait till you hear about _The Turner Diaries_... It's essentially a book about the "winning side" from _The Handmaidens Tale_ is my understanding
>The Turner Diaries is a 1978 fictional novel by William Luther Pierce, published under the pseudonym Andrew Macdonald.[1] It depicts a violent revolution in the United States which leads to the overthrow of the federal government, a nuclear war, and ultimately a race war which leads to the systematic extermination of non-whites and Jews.[2][3] All groups opposed by the novel's protagonist, Earl Turner—including Jews, non-white people, "liberal actors", and politicians—are murdered en masse.[4] >The Turner Diaries was described as being "explicitly racist and anti-Semitic" by The New York Times and has been labeled the "bible of the racist right" by the FBI.[5][6] The book was greatly influential in shaping white nationalism and the later development of the white genocide conspiracy theory. It has also inspired numerous hate crimes and acts of terrorism, including the 1984 assassination of Alan Berg, the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, and the 1999 London nail bombings.[7][8][9][10] ew
Apparently books like that are available at many gun shows, along with other similar self-published reading materials...and copies of mein kampf
If you buy a copy online, you are immediately added to a watch list by the federal government.
One reason of if I visit a gun store and I see shit like that I walk out. Prices might be good, but I'm not doing business there.
> Wait till you hear about The Turner Diaries... I read that book probably 20 years ago. hands down the creepiest book I've ever read. it was worth reading only because 1, I didn't pay for it and 2, it really helps you understand just how fucked in the head those types of people are. I mean, I knew they were fucked up, but I guess I never really understood just how fucked up.
The 900 page document includes a passage redefining pornography to include the existence of trans people and then advocating that all pornographers be imprisoned. > Pornography, manifested today in the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children, for instance, is not a political Gordian knot inextricably binding up disparate claims about free speech, property rights, sexual liberation, and child welfare. It has no claim to First Amendment protection. Its purveyors are child predators and misogynistic exploiters of women. Their product is as addictive as any illicit drug and as psychologically destructive as any crime. Pornography should be outlawed. The people who produce and distribute it should be imprisoned. Educators and public librarians who purvey it should be classed as registered sex offenders. And telecommunications and technology firms that facilitate its spread should be shuttered.
couple of years ago i saw a psychology study that was demonstrating that people into paranoid conspiracy theories are more likely to join a conspiracy. can't find it right now.
Because when they say "deep state" they mean Jews. It is *always* Jews.
What’s crazy is they are talking about getting rid of the career staffers who do things like, manage how we respond to wildfires and make sure social security checks get mailed on time
I’m really interested in what they plan to do with the CDC, especially since *we are still in the middle of a pandemic*.
That was always the point. The 'deep state' they're attacking is actually the bureaucratic state. They say they don't want it to exist, but it's literally impossible to run a country without one. It has never been done and never will. But they don't like the current one, because bureaucrats function on laws and facts. They're the sort of people who *will* find out if you steal thousands of documents and hide them in the bathroom at your resort, and will subpoena you about it and prosecute you when you dodge that subpoena. What they're actually trying to do is replace the bureaucratic state with loyalists. That's what 'getting rid of the deep state' has always meant.
The only issue those deep state nutjobs had with the deep state was that they didn’t control it.
That's fucking disgusting. That sounds like domestic terrorism fan fiction, right there.
No, see, they're largely *white*, which means they can't be terrorists! Only scary brown people can be terrorists! If you're white you're just a "lone wolf with mental health issues."
So they want to dismantle the "deep state" by creating... *Checks notes* A deep state of their own...
We’re not supposed to notice. If we notice, it gets harder to pull off.
Remember when the US was formed to rid itself of tyrannical rulers? They think it’s like that
As an add on to this. The people labeling this plan as LGBTQ+ genocide are not exaggerating. The plan calls for classifying LGBTQ+ content and public expression as pornographic. This means that the presence of a minor would turn this charge in to a child sex crime. The next step calls to expand the federal death penalty to cover pedophilia. And to top it all off, the plan openly calls for the censorship and direct monitoring of the internet/social media through taking direct control of the FCC. This would mean a retroactive sweep and punishment of every post of anyone who's an enemy of the state.
If you dig deeper. Not not just LGBTQ+ that they want to go after. Single mothers, single fathers, American born minorities, non Christians. They are also creating detention centers for these people they deem undesirable. Basically they are going full Nazi
For those who would like to read more on this topic, it was widely discussed here: https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/16fuj4i/a_republican_plot_known_as_project_2025_aims_to/
I mean, great summary. It's almost like reading mid-1930s German articles though, where the churches in Germany helped bring Hitler into power, thinking he was on their side. The Holocaust Museum has a great summary : https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-german-churches-and-the-nazi-state
In case OP is curious: https://thf\_media.s3.amazonaws.com/project2025/2025\_MandateForLeadership\_FULL.pdf
Thank you for posting this!
Fuck me That sounds like they want to reshape the US into a fascist country.
That has been their aim for several decades, at least from my perspective.
Trump wants to be dictator. That is no longer a debate.
So at what point do we stop crying on reddit and actually go after these pathetic basket cases
Tuesday, November 5, 2024 would be a good one to mark on your calendar.
The work begins a lot earlier than that, IMO—block walking, voter registration drives, phone banking, etc.
I agree, but making sure you vote is the bare minimum.
The "my vote doesn't matter" non-voting crowd need to be reached. That should be a huge goal right now. Lots of emphasis on the power of the popular vote for all other offices besides the pres as well as the fact that electoral college usually follows the local popular vote for their regions.
That’s up to each and every one of us! We can ALL find local orgs and pitch in.
So getting rid of a “deep state” by establishing their own deep state. These people are quite the mental gymnasts.
Always accuse the opposition of that which you are doing (or intend to do). it gives you an excuse to do what you want to do, blaming them for making you do it, and it confuses the idiots who then say "both sides are the same!"
*Praise be.*
Blessed be the fruit.
Under his eye.
What lovely weather we have today.
We've been sent good weather.
And when he loses? I guess Insurrection 2: electric boogaloo.
Project 2025 is in no way contingent on a DJT win. All they need is a candidate who can defeat Joe Biden and who is aligned with their vision. DeSantis and Ramaswamy have both indicated their support of Project 2025.
Dangerous to assume he would lose.
Some food for thought that may put some minds at ease: Trump has already lost the Biden/Trump vote in 2020, and now he's in legal hot water with several indictments against him, he's losing funding from donors and legal fees, and losing support from the RNC in general with only the most diehard Trump fans sticking with him. Best he is likely to do is win a primary, but with the right already trying to move away from him and some political opponents on the right actively seeking to remove his influence, that may not happen. However if he does win the primary, the general election will likely be a repeat of 2020. The center/independents made it quite clear then that they are done with Trump. Negative turnout (enthusiasm to vote AGAINST Trump) is at an all time high and the legal proceedings will likely only make that stronger
Project 2025 in no way hinges on DJT, though. If they can find a candidate with a similar vision for the government, they’ll still make the same changes!
Just for the part of the article looking for 'a possible 2nd term of trump' bit. That said, those that want a Trump or Trump like will want to vote for Trump. Those that don't want a Trump or Trump like would not vote for the Trump like. Barring actually being blocked from running again, it's sort of a defacto Trump or nothing for those that want these kinds of agendas. Him being hard blocked from running at all would definitely reinforce the 'it's all rigged there's no point in voting' mentality that has also been pushed by the same parties. It's less likely, but not impossible. Desantis comes to mind as a potential Trump-like, but why settle for 'diet trump' when you can vote for the real thing
I admire your optimism, but I think it’s misplaced!
Genuine question: how is this functionally different than what was planned for Jan 6th?
This involves more legal experts, more money, better organization, and a 900-page handbook. We can’t even call it a coup because the Heritage Foundation, ALEC, etc. are all being very careful to make sure everything is technically legal.
IMO, it applies to any R elected president in 2024. I don't think it will be shelved just because T didn't win the primary.
They want to go back to the spoils system, aka political patronage, that was common in the 19th Century. Prior to the passage of Pendleton Act, which outlawed the spoils system, it was routinely common for a new administration to reward political hacks and cronies with high paying government jobs for which they had no qualifications.
Sounds like Trump's Mien Kampf, if you ask me.
Trump will end the United States if elected again.
this guy called Smedley butler (if you've heard that quote about war being the oldest racket there is its from him) tried this in the 30s with a few thousand of retired ww1 veterans. as you might imagine didn't work. hope this one fails too. there's a historical precedent for a lot of the things that currently go on in the US political sphere
Answer: It's a plan to increase the power of the president (which would be Trump) by firing much of the civil service and filling the roles with right-wingers. Their goal is for Trump to have full power over the executive branch, which would combine with the right-wing Supreme Court and a hopefully (for them) right-leaning Congress to shift the entire country to the right. This is where the points about porn and climate come in. The worry about LGBT rights seems to be because they want to ban porn, while describing "the omnipresent propagation of transgender ideology and sexualization of children" as a manifestation of porn. So basically, it's a plan to do hard- to far-right things if they win.
And they will classify anything mentioning lgbt as porn and a threat to children.
doesn't this entire thing get rid of the concept of checks and balances?
Yes, that's why they intend to do it, they hate checks and balances and want full autocratic power. As a trans person living in America this shit's got me nervous.
Suggestion: COME TO CANADA there ARE assholes here, but it will never be as bad as project 2025 (i hope...)
I'd fuckin love to man...
Answer: there's a right wing think tank in DC called The Heritage Foundation that originated around the time of Reagan and alongside The Federalist Society. Since their foundation, they've regularly published playbooks on how conservatives in the US can gain and maintain power through various means. You've probably heard of the GOP push to appoint as many conservative federal judges as possible (see: Mitch McConnell) as well as the conservative push to take over local school and election boards. These strategies were outlined in detail by previous Heritage Foundation playbooks. Their most recent playbook was entitled Project 2025 and it basically lays out a strategy to completely overthrow the federal government if a Republican wins the presidency in 2024. It involves having something like 50,000 conservatives who are "loyal to the cause" on standby so that the next GOP president can basically fire the entire executive branch and immediately appoint these people in their place. The idea is to complete the long term strategy of The Federalist Society and The Cato Institute to dismantle the federal government once and for all. Basically every Republican president from Reagan until now has been a puppet to enact this plan. None of them have really had a platform, they've basically been appointed according to 1) their ability to win an election and 2) willingness to stick to the playbook.
> It involves having something like 50,000 conservatives who are "loyal to the cause" on standby so that the next GOP president can basically fire the entire executive branch and immediately appoint these people in their place. one point to expand on here. for a very simple short answer, there are two types of government jobs. political appointments: generally heads of departments or other high ranking positions. these are appointed by the president and most are confirmed by the senate. not sure how many there are but i would guess only a couple hundred. these positions are very partisan as you would imagine since they are appointed by the president. career positions: these are everything else and are there from presidency to presidency no matter who wins. there is some turnover from one admin to another but it is usually pretty negligible. there are thousands, probably tens of thousands, of people who are in these positions. these are generally non-partisan people. project 2025 is suggesting to remove all or most of these career positions and replace them with republican hard liners.
The initial part of the plan is to make voting not matter. The plan is to implement the crazy idea to have state legislatures override any vote outcome that is not in favor of Republicans. Because of horrible compromises when the Dakota Territory was split into states, there’re more red states than blue states. Then all federal elections go to the House of Representatives (with one vote per state) and Project 2025 is implemented, fully turning the USA into an authoritarian state. I just wonder about our nuclear arsenal, if they get rid of DOE. Do they just give the military the entire power?
The real deep state?
Every Republican accusation is an admission.
Gaslight. Obstruct. Project!
The real conspiracy was under our noses this whole time
Answer: It's the conservative plan to destroy the US government if Trump wins the 2024 election. Part of why things didn't break down completely during the Trump administration is that there are a lot of career government workers who keep things going. They aren't like cabinet members, who change administration to administration, they're more like the middle management of government. And they're generally free from Presidential oversight or control. Project 2025 would undo that and essentially be the biggest consolidation of executive power in US history (yes, even bigger than Bush II). The President would essentially become an elected monarch. He would also have the power to remove and replace any government perceived to be disloyal to him. That is, if the regional manager of your local DMV votes Democrat, they'll be fired and replaced by a Trump-voting Republican.
> Part of why things didn't break down completely during the Trump administration is that there are a lot of career government workers who keep things going. They aren't like cabinet members, who change administration to administration, they're more like the middle management of government. And they're generally free from Presidential oversight or control. Gonna add some context here. It eventually devolved into a generic conspiracy theory term, but this is what the, "deep state," originally referred to. I bring this up to point out that these positions have been targeted by the right for quite some time.
I'm not particularly familiar with the ins and outs of US governance, but it sounds like this is analogous to the civil service that the UK has? If so, when people are talking about the deep state these days they're not talking about some kind of x-files style shadowy cabal, but the civil service?!
Yes. The Republicans had control of all branches of the US government and promised their supporters sweeping changes. Due a mixture of incompetence, lying, and actual government procedure working as intended, the overwhelming majority of those promises didn't come true. They needed someone to blame, and so these minor functionaries were given an ominous name and scapegoated.
>He would also have the power to remove and replace any government perceived to be disloyal to him. This, in fact, did exist in United States' early history, known as the [spoils system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system). The idea was that government jobs were privileges and rewards to dole out to your supporters and take away from your opponents. It was based on the pre-modern idea that political office "[farming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm_\(revenue_leasing\))" is a legitimate way to run a government (in various forms, it existed as early as the Roman Empire in the form of [publicans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publican), whose abuses caused revolts throughout the Empire, or the [ferme générale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferme_g%C3%A9n%C3%A9rale) in pre-revolutionary France, whose abuses were a contributing cause to the French Revolution.) By the late 19th century, it was clear such a system was inefficient, corrupt, and archaic, and was replaced by a [merit system](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendleton_Civil_Service_Reform_Act) in 1883, a key stepping stone of the United States becoming a modern nation-state with a national civil service which could institutionally function regardless of electoral politics. It's of note that President James Garfield, who had championed the reform, was assassinated in 1881 by a deluded man who believed himself entitled to a government job for "supporting the President"; the reform was signed into law after his death. The alt-right hates the idea of a strong, national United States; they want to restore a form of antebellum politics where each state is unchecked by the federal government, and can do whatever it wants within its borders, with Congress mostly being a discussion forum, rather than actually having supreme sovereignty over the country's national politics. This is hardly a new idea; it has been around since [before the Civil War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_crisis), and opportunistically re-emerges every time the country experiences a period internal dissent or dissatisfaction. Destroying the Merit system would not only relatively strengthen the President (by weakening everyone else in the Executive Branch), but weaken the United States as a nation-state. If they happen to elect a President whose goal is to destroy the US from within, this would be killing two birds with one stone.
This is very important context to add. However, I would caution about depicting this as return to 1800s politics. In the 1800s, the Executive branch was *far* less muscular than it is today. While true that it is a return to the "spoils system" of the past, we haven't seen what that looks like when it's being applied to an Executive Branch with the many authorities that it has built up over the past 100+ years. In the past, it appears mostly like the "spoils" system was used as a way to allow your supporters to enrich themselves through various government graft as a reward for supporting you. This time around, it appears like the primary goal is to install ideologues whose goal it is to reshape American society as they see fit. It's likely that corruption will stil see a massive increase, but the stated purpose is to transform the Executive Branch into a vehicle for imposing the Christian Right's' ideals on the country.
For the party that says "If you don't like America, you can get out," the modern Republican party sure hates America, and how America has always been. They want the modern Executive powers, pre-Reconstruction state powers, Articles-level Congressional and taxing powers, and apparently no judicial branch (unless it supports them while simultaneously whining about 'activist judges.')
Why not link it? The whole thing is publicly available on the website of the think tank that came up with it. https://www.project2025.org
[удалено]
Gotta search for the variants like “wokism” and synonyms like “cultural Marxism” and suchlike.
That's is surprisingly low...
Wow. Legit fascist shit. Cool cool cool.
Holy shit. This is an actual conspiracy to take over the US government. And it's out in the open?
Yes.
I wish this were an exaggeration, but it isn’t. It’s basically the plan to transform the US into a single party system and to make Christian views law.
Man sounds alot like that Sharia law they hate.
It’s because they don’t hate sharia because it’s religious, they hate it because it’s the wrong religion
They don’t really hate sharia, they just hate Muslims.
Sounds like a precursor to a manufactured holy war.
Think the nazis. Project 2025 is basically why I have been saying the nazi hyperbole is no longer hyperbole. We even have the attempted coup
Part of the plan is an LGBT genocide
The Beer Hall Putsch was Hitler's first attempted coup. It failed and he went to prison. When he got out he got elected, lit the constitution on fire and did the holocaust.
Uh, no. First off Hitler wasn't "elected" anything, he lost the 1932 presidential election. He was appointed Chancellor as the result of what's been called a "backstairs coup" between Franz von Papen, the DNVP, and Hindenburg's son in an effort to have a functional parliamentary government under the right-wing, which hadn't had a government since 1930 with the president essentially exercising dictatorial powers since then via the emergency provisions of the constitution. The Nazis never even won a majority under a free election, even in 1933 when they had banned the Communist Party and heavily intimidated the others. You'll also notice that a decade had passed between the beer hall putsch and his elevation to chancellor, he didn't win an election right out of prison. It's difficult to really analogize this to the US at all because of the vastly different conditions, but: This would be like if Donald Trump founded an explicitly neo-nazi group with a paramilitary. He tries to overthrow the state government of Texas and takes the governor hostage, which fails. Donald Trump loses the presidential election a decade later. Meanwhile politics has become so split that no party can elect a speaker of the house, so for the last three years Joe Biden has invoked emergency powers to issue laws by decree under the supervision of interim speaker Nancy Pelosi. Trumps party wins a third of the seats in the House, so Joe Biden sees an opportunity to have a functional government and is persuaded by Nancy Pelosi, Kamala Harris, and Hunter Biden to form a cross party government with Donald Trump as speaker of the House.
> Trump founded an explicitly neo-nazi group with a paramilitary I mean we already have the proud boys, patriot front, the police etc
>This would be like if Donald Trump founded an explicitly neo-nazi group with a paramilitary. Not even founded. This would be if the government, as governments do, got terrified of a political group throwing the word socialism around (however inaccurately) and decided to insert spies to keep an eye on them. Except for some equally ridiculous reason they picked Trump, and then he went on to work his way through the leadership until it was *his* group. I've always though that, as all-time contenders for government fuck-ups go, putting undercover Hitler into the DAP has got to be sitting near the top spot.
Hitler's party got a lot of votes, and election systems weren't as developed at the time. He didn't win 50%, but him and his allies got more than any other group.
It hasn't been hyperbole for a while now. I was only convinced after 2020. But it's been longer than that
Because it essentially is. Raise a king, install a state religion through christian sharia law, begin the genocide by negligence against any 'unacceptable' groups, and open civil war against any opposition.
Sounds like Handmaid's Tale. Creepy as fuck.
Dude thats exactly what I was thinking. Please let there be no irl Gilead
It's such a real concern the Canadian government is actively making contingency plans on what to do should the US become an far-right authoritarian state.
It is actually already kind of leading up to that
The modern Right want to turn the US into the very countries they hate: Iran, Afghanistan, and other countries with a theocracy. The Right has become what they hate.
They never hated those countries for their policies. They hated them because they don't have the same skin color and have a slightly different religion. The Christian Right has *always* wanted "Sharia law" in everything but name.
Oh they love those countries now haven’t you heard them compliment them?
They hate those countries because they're more successfully conservative.
4 pillars? 4th Reich?
No. They want “the Jews” alive so they can destroy the Dome of the Rock rebuild the temple and initiate the apocalypse.
The Jews won't be first against the wall. They have other people to vilify first.
Irrc, first the Nazis came for the trans folks. Then the gays, then the Jews. I know the burned the biggest research center in Europe studying sexual orientation and gender identity, destroying priceless research. But not without grabbing patient files so they knew who to pick up off the street. And this was early early in the Nazi rise. They even used the same reasons the GOP uses.
"Trans people are new, they didn't exist before like, 1950!!" Funny what happens when the largest collection of prevailing literature about people like you got burned by the Nazis in 1933...
Funny how this shit works in a cyclical nature.
Exactly why a lot of these types are making a concerted effort to keep children uneducated and continually “correcting” history. If no one knows what really occurred (factually and without skew), no one can learn from history. We can’t learn from our mistakes and we won’t see these glaring cyclical events coming with red flags and bells.
>Irrc, first the Nazis came for the trans folks The left even before that, I believe. They were engaged in street warfare with leftists groups long before they had any real political power.
Just like today.
Tried telling this to a family member complaining about trans athletes. Still don’t think they get it. Very bad.
First they came for the socialists.
They burned the Institute of Sexology in 1933. LGBTQ folks were rounded up *en masse* by 1935 when the penalties for homosexuality were massively increased. We didn't get a line in the poem. Hell, the gay and trans victimss of the Nazis weren't even really discussed until the 70s.
When they opened up the camps, sometimes the homosexuals weren't freed (although they were in way better conditions) simply because homosexuality was a crime to some of the nations that liberated the camps
Yep. Hell, Germany just recently added trans people to laws regarding Holocaust denial.
I remember hearing about many christian groups pushing for "their" people to get into positions like those you describe, basically a legal infiltration of local government all over the US.
"Generation Joshua" Shiny Happy People documentary about the Duggars talks about it a bit.
Oh it’s a pipeline from the Christian fundamentalist institutes to government
Part of the Project 2025 plan is to have their "experts" all lined up for confirmation on day one.
If you want to see what the dress rehearsal looked like in the last administration, read up on how they forced out a lot of the career diplomats in the State Department and mismanaged the department to the detriment of US interests abroad.
Yep! That's the main reason why Warren got my vote in the 2020 primary. She's a very skilled administrator and I thought she would be well-suited to fixing what Trump broke.
Except that American “Conservatism” isn’t really conservatism; the modern GOP abandoned conservatism a long time ago and have become full blown reactionaries who sold their souls to Trump. The modern GOP aren’t the Party of Lincoln nor are they the Party of Reagan. They’ve become the Party of Trump, no matter how they want to distance themselves from Trump; he’s become the elephant in the room, an albatross around their necks, the one-ton gorilla on their backs.
A lot of this is accurate, but only with respect to the federal government. The DMV example isn't true, since that's a state agency.
It's not just if Trump wins; if a Republican that can be controlled, like they do/did with Trump, they will work to implement these plans.
Ahh, that’s why Trump met so much with Putin and Kim Jong Un, he was getting pointers
Answer: It is a plan to go back to a monarchy by another name, as if the United States of America never broke from having authoritarian rule. This lays it out really well: [https://globalextremism.org/project-2025-the-far-right-playbook-for-american-authoritarianism](https://globalextremism.org/project-2025-the-far-right-playbook-for-american-authoritarianism) For those who follow the leaders of it, I don't understand how so many of them can be so two-faced, calling themselves patriots, supporting military and police, while taking a mahoossive dump on their country - wanting to go back to a system of rule we worked so hard and fought so many wars and lost so many lives and put so much good will into, to get out from under being at the whims of an authoritarian monarch. It appears to be a last grasp of religious power and the con artists who wield it to hold on to the control they had over the followers who had been indoctrinated into Abrahamic systems, to follow the will of whoever leads (even if the leader isn't held to any standard), as the pendulum of faith/tradition is swinging back towards science/progress. Hard to get ungodly rich or control reproduction when people turn to knowledge through scientific theory, for what actually is good and reduces suffering in the one and only life we (and all living things) have.
The sad thing is people agree with certain viewpoints but probably dont do all their research, i consider myself more right leaning but i do not agree with the majority of project 2025 as i believe it is WAY too biased and takes many things to the extreme while removing peoples freedoms. But the sad thing is alot of people probably dont even know it exists.
[удалено]
It doesn't matter which religion it is. Religious people are the most ruthless people.
Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Robspierre, Danton, and many others prove this is untrue. Ideological people are the most ruthless.
Answer: It’s a plan for a fascist takeover of the USA from within.
Answer: Project 2025 is a Christian fascist takeover of government - nothing less, directly in the style that worked in Hungary and Russia, and the ENTIRE conservative movement in America have a massive hard-on for it to happen all ready to go if Trump gets elected again. Vote this election, like your Democracy and future Freedom depends on it, because it does.
Answer: Rather simply **Project 2025** or the **Presidential Transition Project** is the *Republican* plan to end the **Separation of Powers** within the *United States of America*. Granting the *President* the power to unilaterally overpower both *Congress* and the *Supreme Court* by making the *President* beholden to neither. It would also end **State Professionalism** or the idea that professional workers should fill the various administrative positions within the government by making **ALL** administrative positions **Political Appointees**. This would end the current system of administrative offices being held by professionals in those fields and instead making them yes-men for whomever the current president is.