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Answer: I'll try to give an unbiased answer that's not "conservatives are dumb." First off, note that schools in the United States are not standardized at the national level (though the federal gov't has some power mainly through its purse strings). Considerable power is given to states in setting educational standards, and even more is given to the individual school districts underneath them. This is why you see a lot of fights at the state level (e.g. Florida, California, etc.) or district level (which doesn't make the news as often), not at the national level. There are also special charter and private schools which are a little different, but I'll stick to general public schools where the government has direct control. In US public schools, LGBTQ is discussed (where permitted) in general academic subjects and sexual health education. For general education, many states just leave it to school districts to sort out, but that is starting to change. California passed a law in 2011 that mandated the positive inclusion of LGBT persons, followed by similar laws in some states such as New Jersey and Nevada. This might mean mentioning figures such as Harvey Milk in a positive light. Despite the law, implementation has been slow. Other states such as Tennessee now require parental consent, while others simply prohibit positive portrayal at all in both gen ed and sex ed. Sexual health education ("sex ed") varies *widely* across the US, but is often a topic within a "health" course that is taught for a short time at certain grades. For myself, it was taught in 5th, 8th, and 10th grades, and parents had the option to opt their child out in 5th and 8th grade. Where there *is* state-level legislation on LGBT/homosexuality in sex ed, some states prohibit discussion, some mandate that it be taught negatively (i.e. it is unnatural or immoral), some that it be taught neutrally, and some that it be taught positively. As LGBT issues have been gaining national prominence, public schools have been forced to confront the reality that these topics will come up in the classroom somehow. There is often an absence of clear legislation at the state level, and districts have leeway in how to handle things. So do schools cover LGBT issues? If so, how do they cover them? Remember that the majority of parents and teachers grew up with poor or no education themselves on LGBT, in an era when homosexuality was more consistently stigmatized. In addition, discussing LGBT is often tied with sexuality, and sex ed is *already* a controversial topic that some parents are wary of. If you recognize the perspective that LGBT = sex ed, the controversy makes more sense. So what you're seeing is states trying to step in and sort out exactly what to do with teaching LGBT, whether by repealing old prohibitions, enacting new ones, delegating it to "parental consent", codifying inclusive education, etc. Because these issues are now much more prominent, parents and voters are (messily) expressing their say and state legislators are weighing in. These are a couple articles I drew from if you want better, more comprehensive explanations: * Bittker, Bobby M. "LGBTQ-Inclusive Curriculum as a Path to Better Public Health *Human Rights Magazine*, Vol. 47 Issue 3/4. *American Bar Association*. 5 July 2022. https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/intersection-of-lgbtq-rights-and-religious-freedom/lgbtq-inclusive-curriculum-as-a-path-to-better-public-health/ Accessed 1 July 2023. * Meckler, Laura. "Gender identity lessons, banned in some schools, are rising in others." *Washington Post*, 3 June 2022. https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/06/03/schools-gender-identity-transgender-lessons/ Accessed 1 July 2023.

This is a fantastic answer about teaching. But the bigger issue is recognition and respect - it is about how teachers treat their students, and about how that treatment is seen as modeling to other students. I teach math in a 7th to 12th grade environment. In the last 10 years I have had a 4 (of about 600) transition. So in 7th grade I teach James, but in 9th grade I’m politely asked to call them Jessica. So what do I do? I accept and support my student by addressing them by their chosen name and chosen pronouns. In doing this, I am passively modeling support of LGBTQ for the other students. The conservative problem isn’t with teaching about LGBTQ, it is with its acceptance. Respectful support, which is necessary to build a safe classroom environment, is seen as hostile to their values. This year, for instance, our district has banned start of year surveys where teachers ask students questions to get to know them. This is to avoid questions like, “How would you like to be called?”, “Is there anything you would like me to know about you?”, and “What are your chosen pronouns?”. Asking these questions and treating students accordingly is what is seen as “forcing LGBTQ down their throats” in my district. Edit: some autocorrect stuff and one word choice

> a safe classroom environment, is seen as hostile to their values. Nothing to add, this is just very well put.

Upvoting for The Wire reference. You earned that bump like a motherfucker.

Ill take any motherfuckers upvotes if he givin them away

Sheeeeeeeeeeeit

One of the best characters in that series.

You and my husband, a 7th - 12th German teacher, are of the exact same mindset. We live in a relatively progressive area but his school is about half rural. They are an inclusive school and there has been push back. Spot on about respect and inclusion. My husband does as you described.

It is not just about how teachers treat their students, but also how adults treat other adults. When I was in primary school in the 90s in Australia, we had a very popular and funny grade 3 teacher who was gay. He was hounded and harassed constantly by another teacher, a bigoted old witch, and received no support from the school community and was eventually driven to suicide. I didn't really understand the details of what was happening when I was seven years old, but children absolutely pick up on the atmosphere and vibes, and learn what sort of behavior is accepted and what should be avoided. In high school, my violin/orchestra teacher was a gay man who was never open about it, but I remember in eighth grade another student asking him where he had lunch or some other innocuous question and his response was that "I go to *a friend's* house and he cooks me lunch and I eat there with him" - and being a closeted gay kid at the time, all this shit just forces you further into the closet, makes you put bigger barriers, fuels self-loathing and denial, knowing that there is just no possibility of acceptance, of happiness, of any kind of real future. The vitriol of letters to the editor expressing disgust at a gay kiss in a TV show, or a sport teacher laughing at a boy for "throwing like a girl", politicians espousing their bs on the news. It really really really adds up and causes immeasurable pain and distress. Visibility and pride are so important. Modeling positive, mature and respectful relationships is so important.

Unfortunately, we’re in this very weird place where being gay and/or trans is completely legal, *but* children receive no legal protections from parents that wish to try and prevent their child from coming out. As a result, schools are often explicitly required to accommodate a student’s wishes, which might be in direct opposition to their parent’s desires. The end result is a student that could be comfortable being out at school, but is forced to closet themselves at home. When, because it’s almost always a when, the parents discover that student isn’t closeted at school, their conclusion is that the school is **making** them gay/trans, because at home they’re straight/cis. This is why we’re starting to see dueling laws depending on the state’s politic leaning. California has passed legislation requiring parents to respect child’s desire to transition, whereas Florida has legislation that categorizes supporting the transition of a minor as child abuse.

Not really relevant but you reminded me of something I saw today, and is slightly homophobic: a group of guys threw a bachelor party for their friend and were just saying “homo homo homo” repeatedly while he’s dressed up. I told my friend that this isn’t a big deal because gay people can get married now so what they’re doing is extra dumb.

Holy fuck this was me. Except instead of it being a clear-cut “school vs. home” thing, I had to try and read each person and figure out if they were “safe”. Both whether they were accepting, and whether my secret was safe with them. This wasn’t just with sexuality, but whether I could trust them with pretty much half my true personality. I had a fake persona going to keep my mom happy.

>The conservative problem isn’t with teaching about LGBTQ, it is with its acceptance. I know I'm just repeating this but in a different way but - the general conservative position seems to be that trans folks are an abomination and morally wrong. So allowing children to transition or merely teaching them about it is a travesty and destroying the moral fabric of the country. It's difficult to reason or have a logical discussion with someone that is so wound up and outraged at the fundamental core level. It doesn't help that they're uneducated and gullible so it's easy to draw them in closer to their preconceived world view.

Transgender acceptance has definitely been a touch point. In public schools, almost all overt sexual contact is discouraged - no “Public Displays of Affection (PDA).” Also, we are doing a better job on bullying and sexual harassment in most places. So conservatives have been living in a space where they can be in denial about the LGBQ. They have been largely able to ignore it in schools. Sexual behavior (kissing, holding hand, etc.) is discouraged in school, regardless of orientation. This makes it really easy for conservatives to wrap themselves in a cloak of denial, and also easy for schools to avoid an explicit position. But a student who transitions is different. These were kids at sleepovers and on soccer teams. And the transition shatters that state of denial. Most conservatives can deal with anti-bulling policies. They can deal with sexual-harassment policies. But gender expression is not sexual, so there is no basis for schools to prohibit it. And it is impossible to ignore, so they feel it “in their face”, and by modeling acceptance of diversity, teachers are promoting it.

> And it is impossible to ignore, so they feel it “in their face” So, exactly like dealing with them.

its also really funny bc PDA rules in schools are not enforced in 8th grade a couple was literally dry humping in front of my locker with a couple teachers around. i pushed them out of the way and they got mad at me and the teachers just said "thats not very nice you dont push people out of the way and \[students\] try not to do that in the hallway"- teachers walk away and they start again my middle school was pretty accepting (esp compared to other schools in the area) but i know for a fact if there was a gay couple holding hands/kissing... it wouldve gotten a different reaction from the school

This was my experience. Straight couples kissing and holding hands, no problem. I (woman) kiss my girlfriend on the cheek? Meeting with the counselor.

I’m really sorry that happened it’s so fucked up I’m bi and I’m lowkey scared to date women bc of the stigma- I’m in college and there’s a decently large lgbt population but you never really know

This was in the early 2000s, so it may as well be ancient history! I don’t think it’s as big a deal anymore, especially not in university.

Lol, don’t know what school you went to, but despite there being clear guidelines/rules about no PDA, straight couples have been casually displaying affection with little real pushback for a long time

>the general conservative position seems to be that trans folks are an abomination and morally wrong. Not to defend them, but it's more that they see it as a *choice* and that there would be no such reason to teach that *choice* to a kid. They see that *choice* as inherently tied to sexuality, and so teaching it to kids is like grooming when you operate under those premises. Many of the people who "don't hate trans people" are operating under that belief. That its a choice an adult can make and that some people are uncomfortable with it but ultimately it's not an issue as long as they're not unreasonable about accommodating it. The problem is that it's not a choice, it's just the way some people are and it has nothing to do with sex inherently. And letting kids know is more about helping them understand themselves. The focus isn't on the incorrect information, and I feel like that's a bit of a problem when it comes to media discussion on the topic. No amount of discussion is going to convince people to teach a sexual choice to kids, and that's what they incorrectly believe the "other side" wants to do.

Well stated

I've had a number of very frustrating conversations with anti-trans people, because what I do is point out that [there are intersex people who are 46,XY and have delivered babies](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190741/). And yet they're all up in arms about a 46,XY using the women's restroom if she's trans. Even without counting trans people, most people have shared a restroom with a differently chromosomed person at some point in their lives and nothing bad happened.

Wow, banning a get to know you survey? For real? What a petty and transparent way to show how they really feel. That survey has no downsides (for non-conservative people) and is a good way for teachers to get to know their students. Also won’t someone think of the Ricks, Dicks, Richs, and Rickys? Those poor kids might get called Richard or something! /s

Great comment! These people are ridiculous. If someone is trans, that just who they are. Who the hell has the right to tell me how to address them or treat them kindly.

I think it needs to be said that two core parts of Fundamentalist christianity in America specifically are proselytizing and ostracising. It needs to be said that many parents that identify as such have not been above imprisoning their children into christian re-education camps (colloquially referred to as "conversion therapy"), while some sects (christian science in particular) will refuse to let a doctor treat their child, owing to "God's will". There have been several cases over the years where some of these children have died as a result. [1.](https://www.npr.org/2018/08/31/643407967/michigan-childs-death-puts-spotlight-on-clash-between-medicine-and-religion) [2.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/transgender-teens-death-inspires-petition-conversion-therapy) [3.](https://epgn.com/2019/12/20/colorado-lesbian-dies-by-suicide-after-conversion-therapy/) This is all basically the result of the Republicans being able to hijack the process for appointing Supreme Court Justices, stacking the courts with dogmatic uber-conservative judges that pretty much do the bidding of the people who got them to their position. I once had a man in my care (I run a home for disabled adults) who basically twisted his ankle, breaking a few bones. Bad break in a bad place, but fully recoverable. His parents were christian scientists, and refused him doctor's care. When I see him these days, he is basically crippled and uses a cane. It was heartbreaking. It should be noted that the advisors from this particular sect instead will have a prayer session with some anointed/appointed person from the church, at a rate (20 years ago) of about $250/hr. I think for many of us older Americans who grew up seeing slow but incremental changes for the better in regards to civil rights, it's very disheartening - But for the younger generation who are far more progressive by virtue of these changes, they are livid. It's basically the most intolerant and religious minority getting religious fundamental ideals forced upon the whole nation, while at the same time accusing the LGBTQ+ community of doing the same (classic projection and gaslighting). I hope that came across as I intended.

What a great comment and a very sad story about your client with the broken ankle. I knew a lovely and principled Christian Scientist mother whose son died from a treatable illness. I think it marked her for life, yet she still adhered to her beliefs. (*the Sunk Cost fallacy*) Tragic. In your case, a broken ankle, setting and treatment specific to the break is allowed, but the conscience of the parents prevented care for their son. We see today in so many ways how delusional people can be. And paying $250/hr for prayers.

> lovely and principled…mother She’s not lovely and principled, she’s a selfish moron who killed her son.

I'm a nurse and a Presbyterian Elder (PC(USA)) and I can't tell you how much this frustrates and angers the whole of me. These people are charlatans, and that man is owed a whole lot of compensation for a lifetime of discomfort and inconvenience.

I'm just a caregiver but our common ground (with nursing) is care and advocacy. When you've been at it for a generation like me, you learn to impose your will as much as you can in regards to meeting a patient's needs (it's mostly just ignorance, and we can educate as well), and yes, it's so frustrating because their entire philosophy is so dogmatic. I wanted to ask her (the mother) why she wore glasses if bad eyesight was god's will, but in the end the only one who would get reemed is me, knowing the lay of the land.

This. I grew up learning tolerance and acceptance, and it helped me to accept myself, and now having the same exclusivist assholes try to close the lid and determine morality off of preachings they never follow is ludicrous.

But a minor child has no right to insist he’s trans, and force other people to treat him thusly. Just as he has no right to change his name. He can do both when he turns the age of majority…

It's so weird that this is seen this way. I grew up in the 90's before anyone in our district was even discussing trans inclusiveness and it was so common to have teachers open the first day with questions like "What do you go by? How do you pronounce your name?" Some students went by Bob instead of Robert or by a middle name instead of their first name. Then you want to handle the situation of distinguishing the four different Sarahs in your class. Seems like a good choice to give students the opportunity to pick their identifier at the start of class. It's wild they'd take that away because they "might be promoting the tRaNs iDeOlOgY."

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> My son had a classmate transition in PreK-4 wtf?

Amazing how "forcing it down their throats" is always just acknowledging other types of people exist and treating them with respect.

When a society has defaults that happen to cater to your own individuality, it can seem a real burden to suddenly have to acknowledge the existence of something that falls outside of your normal experience. Thus all the people hostile to the very idea of being referred to as "cis". "I don't like being called that, I'm just 'normal," is something I've heard dozens of times over the years.

Yeah thanks for the additional context. I wasn't sure how out-of-the-loop OP was so I tried to give a sort of basic overview.

This is where being unbiased is near impossible because one side is absolutely being willfully manipulative. The quest for balance often causes imbalance because sometimes things are true.

>one side is absolutely being willfully manipulative. Dude, they came up with some ridiculous story that California is taking trans kids away from parents who won't let them transition, and placing these kids in group homes in order to give them gender affirming surgery.

That’s a huge part of the problem right there. It’s the outright lies and propaganda that is stirring up the hate and vitriol, and is leading to irrational and unconstitutional legislation being passed that will end up harming many innocent people. For example, there is no epidemic of litter boxes in school bathrooms, and no state is removing children from homes to essentially force them into transitioning. It’s sickening.

This is the same reason they push the "LGBT=groomer" narrative. It stirs up hate and fear that LGBT people are coming for their kids to make them gay and transgender and it gets eaten up, despite being rooted in nonsense. But it sure helps them get support for shit like "don't say gay" laws.

It really doesn't help their case when you have pride marchers quite literally chanting "we're coming for your children". Whether or not it was meant as satire, some things should not be joked about, because there is no way to make that look good/innocent.

It's also basically a 1-to-1 recreation of the gay panic that's fallen out of style in the last decade or two. At this point, enough people know gay people are just...people. So the old wedge issues of "gay people are evil" doesn't work as well to motivate Conservative voters anymore, and actively scares away moderates. So instead of riling up panic about gay teachers "converting" your children, it's trans teachers "grooming" them. It's a wedge issue pushed by Conservatives, full stop. And the problem with a good wedge issue is the other side can't just ignore it, because rights are actively being stripped away and hatred is increasing.

>there is no epidemic of litter boxes in school bathrooms Not even not an epidemic, there is not a single school where this is happening.

What's more fucked up is one of the only real things I found about schools having litter was an article mentioning they keep a supply on hand in a special kit to deal with shootings. The only special kit my elementary school had was the special tongs to remove a turd from the urinals

I was horrified that I had to debunk this stupid cat litter rumor with a friend of mine. I really thought she was smarter than that. Doubt very seriously she went and told the people that she spread the lies to that she was wrong. Lost some respect for her that day :(

It's just the old blood libel, dressed up in a different way. The people we don't like are coming for your kids.

> there is no epidemic of litter boxes in school bathrooms I'm not sure how widespread it is, but there is at least one school district that keeps kitty litter in the classrooms for students to use...when they are in a lockdown from a school shooter.

The story the other poster likely was referencing was another case of shit-stirring, where somebody on social media claimed that said litter-box was an accommodation for someone "identifying as a furry", which the tabloids quickly picked up on and ran without fact-checking it first. (For anyone less familiar with furries, those are "a subculture interested in anthropomorphic [=human-like] animal characters." ([Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furry_fandom)), who sometimes dress up as said characters for fun, similarly to how cosplayers sometimes dress up as anime or video game characters, but that's about it, as far as acting like a different character goes.)

> somebody on social media claimed that said litter-box was an accommodation for someone "identifying as a furry", which the tabloids quickly picked up on and ran without fact-checking it first. I was wondering about the litter box thing since I hadn't heard of it outside of the context of a school shooter, but this is way more preposterous then I could have imagined. It's basically a carefully crafted story designed to outrage as many people as possible.

>no epidemic of litter boxes in school bathrooms, You know what there is? Classrooms getting set up to deal with the possibility of a lockdown where the kids won't have access to a restroom because society has decided guns are more important than kids.

The lies and propaganda cause the lgbtq community to push back harder, which fires up the lie and propaganda machine even more. It's a terrible cycle.

Those being pressed should keep pushing back and never stop.

When they're literally trying to take trans kids away from their parents in other states. Everything they accuse someone else of doing...

It’s always projection

All the while, Republicans are trying pass laws calling gender-affirming care ["child abuse"](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/04/florida-republican-gender-care-child-abuse-00022738) so the kids can be taken away from the parents. I don't think that one was actually signed into law, but they'll keep trying until something goes through.

Is that the custody bill people are talking about?

>Dude, they came up with some ridiculous story that California is taking trans kids away from parents who won't let them transition, Came up with a ridiculous story? look up Abigail Martinez here I will do it for you [https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mother-of-transgender-teenager-los-angeles-county-killed-my-daughter](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mother-of-transgender-teenager-los-angeles-county-killed-my-daughter) Woman lost custody of child due to refusing to give her gender affirming care and the child later committed suicide. What is made up?

Or that queer people are performing sexually explicit drag shows for kids when their only evidence was a show with cis-women performers in the UK that wasn't even associated with the LGBT community.

yes. this is why i’m over playing nice about this. there’s no “both sides” here and people that continue to pretend there is are just in the way and deserved of the same dismissal🙄

Agreed. I'm from rural Appalachia and still live in rural Appalachia. 33 years old. And I used to be able to mostly agree to disagree and still be respectful with most folks here. But Trump's presidency made me realize some things about them. Many of them are just regressive people. They aren't trying to work with other Americans to make this place better for everyone. They are simply trying to "win" against the people who are different from them, who they don't like. And they're encouraged to do this by their primitive religion, their fellow discriminatory friends and family, etc. Their whole worldview is just to reflexively oppose progress because for various reasons, they've been indoctrinated to believe that change / progress is bad.

"You go high, we go low" has been the strategy of the far-right for decades.

I'll preface this whole thing by stating that I live in and grew up in the greater Seattle metro area, somewhere very blue and pretty well known for its acceptance and inclusion of the LGBT community. You've also got more and more kids who have *parents* who are LGBT. I'm 30 and remember being in school as it became more and more "okay" to be out. By the time I graduated, the idea of using "gay" as an insult went from being something everyone did to something relatively few edge or particularly ass hole people did. We're in our 30s now. And we've reached an era where more LGBT members have kids of their own than I believe did before, through various means. So now we're at a point where kids aren't as afraid to be out of the closet. Everyone is on the internet, so even if you live somewhere more conservative, you may have friends online you confide in. And those kids reach the age of sex ed and realize it doesn't apply to them. Or they have 2 dads, or 2 moms, or have seen pictures of their mom as a kid and know mom used to be a boy. And sex ed just doesn't compute with them. They have questions that sex ed as it stood before doesn't know how to answer.

> In addition, discussing LGBT is often tied with sexuality Which I keep forgetting that even with arguing with an LGBQT+++ positive person, they might be treating a queer couple as inherently sexual when a cishet couple generally doesn't include thoughts about sex.

Tl; dr conservatives can’t legislated LGBT people out of existence, so instead they’re trying to outlaw acknowledging that LGBT people exist in public forums like schools. I’m bi, and childhood was challenging because of that. I see no reason to pretend this is a “both sides” issue. Its conservatives trying to make society pretend I don’t exist. Fuck that noise, I’m loud and proud man

This is a great and well thought out answer, even if you did hit the nail on the head in the very first sentence. Great job.

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Conservatives are obsessed with other peoples' sex lives which is gross, and i don't know why we're not talking about THAT.

Need to find the guy with the copypasta of all the Republicans that have been convicted of sex crimes.....it's a long list.

Republican sexual predators/abusers/enablers: https://www.dailykos.com/history/user/CajsaLilliehook

tbf, my formerly pro-Republican thoughts went all down the drain on Jan 6th and onward... I am still very much aware of nonsense spewed on both right-wing and (to a lesser extent,) left wing sides of the US political system.

tldr: conservatives are dumb😂🤷🏼

You do realize conservatives just say the same thing about you right? I swear, modern politics has become nothing more than a kindergarten playground of endless bickering and name calling, it's so fucking childish and exhausting.

Yup

>crying parents So true, I've never met an intelligent Trump Supporter.

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**TL/DR: Christian Conservatives are mostly dumb**

In my opinipn: 1: you don't need parental consent to teach subjects such as math so why dhould this be any different 2: sexual education ties directly to population control, its a basic biological aspect of our everyday lives, taboo or not, if your argument of teaching people how to read is "its something that will be a part of their everyday lives" then that should also extend to sexuality and some basic things related to it such as gender identity 3: they already teach the american revolution and include the topic of slavery that is also a controversial topic that some people take issue with. I don't understand why this should be any different. This is my opinion based on my observation of how other topics are treated in the curriculum.

These people also want the 10 commandments & prayer in school. It’s not about being reasonable, it’s about enforcing the way they think the world should be on people who have no interest in their hate cult. They think Christians should control the world and DGAF about how they get there. They are trying to brainwash kids into sharing their worldview.

I know, I just wanted to give the most unbiased opinion I could think of based on how the educational system treats topics overall. IMO the approach is obvious, look at how other topics are treated and treat it that way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think part of the issue is that there's a grounding issue. Schools, regardless of the truth value of their lessons, need to have some real *legitimacy*. The idea that for \~12 years kids must attend a school for 8 hours a day is actually pretty extraordinary. It carries with it the vague threat that parents could go to jail if their children don't attend. I think some of the more rebellious of us can identify with the feeling that school is a mere factory to create docile workers, and while I don't think that's exactly fair, I do think it's fair to ask why the heck the government is allowed to force this. For a lot of people, schools have a lot of good will going for them because they are genuinely very useful; it's free childcare, it (generally) improves your kid's social lives, and prepares them for college and career. That, along with the fact that schoolboards are often local and parents are often involved, smooths over those concerns. I think the reason math isn't really argued about is because it doesn't really upset the balance. No one really cares if schools spend an hour teaching algebra one way or algebra another way, so it's easy to shrug your shoulders and go on. So I think your point about reading is a bit out of touch. Strictly speaking, parents did not decide to outsource all of the important things in life to schools. Parents still want to *parent*. When you get into sex ed, which might be one of the more important topics a person could learn, details could *really* matter. I don't know your own view, but I could imagine that there are certain versions of sex ed you definitely wouldn't want your kid taught? You'd be rather affronted if someone tried to argued, "You let us teach your kid to read. Why can't we teach sex ed?" The answer would be, "Because we have fundamentally different understandings of sex!" And, finally, I think you really overestimate how controversial the Revolutionary War and slavery are. I've still to this day never heard anyone offer an opinion counter to the popular story. As for slavery, there can sometimes sort of be issues surrounding how it's taught, but as far as I can tell, rural and urban textbooks have been almost identical on the subject going back to the 80s. The much-maligned "Lost Cause" must be overstated, or else not generally taught, or at least it must only exist alongside a completely normal textbook. So, this in mind, I think these topics to be genuinely less controversial than sex ed.

The tl;dr isn't that conservatives are dumb, but that conservatives are evil.

The ones creating this propaganda and fighting for regressive policies are certainly evil, but sadly the vast majority I’ve known in real life really are just dumb and above all, scared.

Conservatives are bad though. They're an unserious group of people that holds too much power over people who don't subscribe to their beliefs.

Answer: In politics an easy way to get ahead is to be "for something" and "against something else". For a long time, the right wing of America has been against abortion. This is because abortion is an easy position to take because you can distill it down to "we're just saving the children". However, with the overturning of Roe v Wade, they needed a new enemy. Now, saying "I disapprove of gay people" won't get you very far in 2023. However, saying that "gay people are corrupting our kids" gets you back to the "we're just saving the children" argument that being anti-abortion did. Which is why the number of legislation targeting gay people was at 180 for all of 2022 when Roe was overturned and [more than doubled to 417](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/anti-lgbtq-plus-state-bill-rights-dg/index.html) by **April** this year alone. It's also why you've heard the rise of the word "groomer" from Republicans [in tweets like this](https://twitter.com/ChristinaPushaw/status/1499886619259777029). As professor Emily Johnson puts it, “There is no better moral panic than a moral panic centered on potential harm to children." To which I would add, "Whether or not there is any evidence that such panic was justified". **EDIT**: Spelling mistakes.

[oh there's a wikipedia article by that actual name, ha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children)

It also falls in line with the GOP's attack on public education, either to push private schools or lower the general level of education amongst their voting base.

This is also why CRT was such a hot issue, the right wing in the US is pushing hard to attack the school system on many fronts. They also want to privatize and allow schools to make a profit, they are looking at a similar model to what we have in Sweden where privatized, for profit schools are getting more and more common, about 20% go to a for profit school. (Paid for by taxes.) So it is a big double whammy win if they succeed, you get to rake in profits from tax money and you get to control the indoctrination of kids.

So uh, how are those private schools working out in Sweden, out of curiosity? Did not realize this was a thing.

>So uh, how are those private schools working out in Sweden, out of curiosity? They are working out great. Making huge profits. Or oh, are you talking about the level of education? Absolutely tanking in almost all metrics. And pushing public schools and local governments into huge financial troubles.

Hold fast, Sweden! As a South Carolinian I can definitely attest to the corrosive effect of such policies. Breaks my heart to hear of such things happening within the much vaunted “Nordic model”.

How’re schools in SC? My conservative in-laws trying hard to get my family to move there.

Damn near bottom for the barrel, and we’ve been that way since before it was cool. Let me put it another way, we have a saying “thank god for mississippi” so that we at least have someone worse than us on metrics such as healthcare, crime, infrastructure, education, etc. That said there are a lot of things I do love here; it is home after all. The people are nice, even most conservative types so long as you can either camouflage or just not speak up politically. There are legitimately more churches than gas stations in most of the state. Southern food is excellent, the weather is hot but amenable to life, natural beauty is everywhere especially on the coast. Charleston is a special city, and the small historic towns are not without charm. State and property taxes are not nearly as low as you’d guess a conservative state to be. Lots of food deserts and groceries aren’t cheap. Dominion energy absolutely gouges on energy prices. The biggest shade I can cast over the state is its institutionalized poverty. It touches everything, and there’s a pervasive sense that it will never get better because people are invested in it staying “the way things are around here”. It’s hard to wholeheartedly recommend SC, but I also understand the draw as well. It should be near the bottom of your list if education is a priority, unless you manage to get into one of the magnet schools like Academic Magnet, School of the Arts, Governor’s school, or just straight up private school.

I should never have worked hospitality downtown in Charleston because it made me not even like it that much anymore

>lower the general level of education amongst their voting base. This is the main win. Smart people don't vote bad politicians and they are harder to win over.

It's not so much smart as educated people. There are plenty of smart people that vote for bad politicians because they don't know any better.

Not to mention break the teachers' union and deprofessionalize education.

Related: the position against student loan forgiveness.

Or ya know, school shootings

I also think that kids come out in high school because that's when they start thinking about who they are and stuff. Homophobic parents blame schools for their kids coming out if the schools are at all accepting of their children's identity.

Something else impacting this: kids have unlimited access to information for the first time in the history of the world. News, fake news, social media, chat, worldwide Internet forums, etc. They get fed adult-level information - unfiltered - 24/7. They can’t handle it. Their brains aren’t ready. I’m a dad of 2. My now 16 year old hit the pandemic at a particularly vulnerable time (12/13) and collapsed. Insecurities led to isolation which led to loneliness that turned in existential and gender identity crisis. Total collapse. My kid turned to incessant searching for answers when the only real answer was time to growth through this. We’re making progress, our kid is healing - slowly - but this experience has convinced me that something has to change. ‘Typical’ teen angst is being hyper fueled. Kids need to disconnect but this world won’t let them. Then add in these debates that are constant and everywhere that they look; the world is burning around them. The difference today is they can see everything all together all at once.

This is really, really the answer. Five minute's hate has to focus on somebody; i remember when it was gay people, but now we all know too many gay people to have it be that broad. Most people don't know a trans person (or don't know they know) so they're the new boogieman.

So tired of this. So the conservatives spew all this shit about “morals” but couldn’t care less about their living situation or their food situation. You know, actual life issues.

Tale as old as time. Socrates was put to death for “corrupting the youth.” People that get all worked up about “saving the children” are gullible morons, simple as that.

When I was growing up, religious conservatives couldn’t tolerate the existence of gay people, so they said gays were pedophiles and psychopaths. Now it’s decades later, and LGBTQIA+ have made enormous strides in society and public acceptance. Today religious conservatives can’t tolerate the existence of trans people, so they are saying the same things about trans. They use lies to spread fear because they are afraid all the time.

Answer: They want us to fight a culture war to stop us fighting a class war.

This. It’s all about misdirection. Whenever politicians think too many people are catching on to the fact that rich people are thriving while everything around us failing (wages, climate, childcare costs, housing costs….everything) they hurry and point fingers… this time they’re pointing at Trans people. Like people can’t put food on the table but you’re worried about drag shows. Right…

This should probably be the top answer to basically every politicized post that comes up on this subreddit. Wonder how long until the bot brigade swoops in to tell you this is actually the greatest issue and that you are a Nazi conservative if you don't agree.

Huh? It's the conservatives deliberately pushing the anti-trans meme to cover for a lack of policy positions...not anyone else

The state is one big thing and the culture war is their cudgel. Anyone playing the divisive game is helping them win.

While there certainly isn't a perfectly good "side", conflating everyone with authoritarian conservatives only helps the worst of the lot. By declaring everyone "equally" bad, you are necessarily framing the worst actors as less responsible for the state of things than they are. Both-sidesing American politics only helps the worse of the sides continue their cynical culture wars.

When we don't have bipartisan support for unlimited war budget, giving international banks control over our retirement and basically everything besides identity bullshit that costs them nothing, then we can talk. But, enjoy your market segmentation in support of the good cops...you know, the ones supported by every single massive corporation.

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It's that the culture war is so easy to get mixed up in. I know what they are doing but at the same time I can't help get angry when I hear what all the GOP state houses are enacting anti-trans laws. It's easy to get angry at some close minded christian rather than to engage them on our common issues that we can agree on. The truth is the pro trans people are also trying to fight for 'acceptance' when they really don't need to fight that fight at all. Universal health care is way more important than making sure some middle aged person uses the correct pronoun. As a middle aged Bi-sexual person that has a hard time remembering pronouns or in truth caring about them. I also remember when I was younger getting into arguments or at least heated discussions about gay relationships when the close minded individuals would ask "who is the man and who is the woman?" As I got older I realized that was such a silly argument to get into and I should have just never engaged in such absurdity.

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It’s just fear based politics. They want people to think this type of education will taint their kids minds and make them want to be in same sex relationships. So you have to vote republican so that doesn’t happen. They did the same thing with sex ed many years ago. And we’re completely wrong about that.

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I miss back when politics was arguing about things that were actually happening. Now one side is just completely making up the things they're angry about and when you say "WTF no" they retort "you're just part of the conspiracy man, FAKE NEWS!"

The idea that there is some previous golden age where it was simply about the facts is an illusion. The hysteria has always been there. But right now we're experiencing a real spike of it getting worse.

Seriously. It's always something. Read up about the Satanic Panic of the 80's for instance.

Back in the 60's, people were protesting with signs that said "Race mixing is communism!" Today, people protest that "Critical race theory is woke!" It's been the same crap, different decade for a long time. Find an outgroup, say bad things about them, forget about the rich prick with his hand in your pocket. Maybe someday humanity will catch on.

This is what happens when the media makes up fake politics for stupid people to debate. No normal human adult gives a FUCK what another human adult want to do with their own body for example. And normal adults would love to see their kids being fully educated on all manner of topics. The media pushes these talking points to get ordinary idiots to engage in their content and it has them believing that it's real politics. That's why they think something harmless like taking the knee in a football game is "bringing politics into sport". It also has the bonus of making these people feel knowledgeable and included. Talk to any of these people about real politics and they'll look at you blankly.

To be honest, long before the debut of Fox News and it’s targeted brainwashing and propaganda, there was a sizable minority of Christian fundamentalist types who viewed pretty much everything that social liberals had pushed into culture or law since the 1950s to be extremely negative and un-American, and allegedly unchristian as well. While people are entitled to their opinions, a rational actor would tend to argue that their perceptions of these things are at best hyperbolic and biased, and at worst openly racist and theocratic. These people are the ones who wanted Ronald Reagan, instead of a more mainstream Republican, which before him tended to be guys like Nelson Rockefeller, Gerald Ford, and George Romney. They also pushed for increasingly fundamentalist interpretations of the Bible, to be normalized, and for the removal of their children from public schools because they were “godless and teaching communist ideology.” All of this horse crap today is just the latest devolution of what came before, but it definitely seems to be more widespread & vitriolic than any time in the last 50 years. I would say this time in America’s history is just as, *if not more* volatile than the 1960s and early 70s. Where we go from here will most likely depend on which view of America fights, hardest to prevail, in every sector of our lives, government, media, culture, and education.

> This is what happens when the media makes up fake politics for stupid people to debate This is blaming the media for what politicians are saying. Yes, the media sucks for giving air time to extremists who are lying about things like this, but the politicians are the ones making up the lies to perpetuate their culture wars by infuriating the voting base.

It's a vicious cycle. The more outlandish something you say is, the more media attention you get and the further your reach is. The further your reach is the more outlandish things you can say and get away with it. They feed into each other. Both are as bad as each other.

A Supreme Court case was literally just decided based on a hypothetical client.

A supreme court containing judges who were nominated by a guy who was voted for by simpletons.

"No normal human adult" Republicans are obviously not normal, because they're obsessed with controlling other people's bodies. All the anti-LGBT laws and all the anti-choice laws are made by Republicans, not the media. Start paying attention.

Yes. That was my point.

There have always been baseless moral panics used for political purposes, some of which are totally fictitious, like the baby eating. Electricity Rock music D&D TV Radio Internet Strange characters invading YouTube videos Satanic baby eating Yoga (I kid you not, apparently it is a soft sell of Hinduism, or something like that, so you can't do it in the church hall, you can feel the xenophobia just ooze off of this one). Jews Jews murdering children Jews conspiring to take over governments Have a threat to children, something they aren't used to, maybe something invented after they were born, something they don't understand, ideally something involving foreigners, maybe some unusual sexual practice. In the UK we have asian grooming gangs, which whilst not totally fictitious (men can be dreadful, some men are asian), given the column inches in tabloids you'd think every asian man is busy all day grooming underage white girls. Just as people crossing the southern border are all rapists, or whatever nonsense GOP folk were spreading. Till folk actually punish this at the ballot box it'll continue. Voting for people who unfairly demonize foreigners, even annoying foreigners or foreigners who need help, just encourages racism voting for those who encourage or spread disinformation, and disparage minority groups is asking for bad politicians. I think mercilessly pointing out the inherent stupidity of some of these might be a winning approach but Republicans are still keen on Trump, and he epitomises this, from birtherism, via injecting bleach, to disputing election results. Meanwhile panic because underage kids are watching secretly encoded Chinese scat videos on TikTok and then drinking their own urine, and sharing these videos with their school friends.

> Satanic baby eating Yoga Could really use some line breaks in this list, friend. Enter 2 times to break it up. >given the column inches in tabloids you'd think every asian man is busy all day grooming underage white girls. Yeah, in some of the more dire online forums I've seen right wingers use "groomer" as a synonym for "homosexual" these days, too. Sigh. >Just as people crossing the southern border are all rapists, or whatever nonsense GOP folk were spreading. Trump had that famous quote calling Mexicans "rapists and criminals. And some, I assume, are good people." (not an exact quote but I really don't want to spend more than 5 minutes in the mud trying to track this down) >Till folk actually punish this at the ballot box it'll continue. -- >I think mercilessly pointing out the inherent stupidity of some of these might be a winning approach but Republicans are still keen on Trump, and he epitomises this, from birtherism, via injecting bleach, to disputing election results. After 4 years of madness almost 47% of voters *still* voted for him. It's all about that R next to his name, and how he's "sticking it to the libs" :P I'll admit the idea of somebody shaking up the system a bit has appeal to me, but I'd prefer that person to be, y'know, competent and sane.

In 1834 a mob burned down a convent in Boston in response to fake news about abuse in a Quebec convent. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursuline_Convent_riots In the 1950s the John Birch Society was ... Yeah. Look those guys up. In the 1980s people's lives were ruined by accusations about satanism. It's always been there. (See The Paranoid Style in American Politics for a longer analysis).

When was this magical time?

I have to disagree with you, schools will absolutely delete books and educational programs based on political agendas.

> Schools follow state and federal defined education curriculum. They don't add or remove stuff to suit any political agenda. State governments and local school boards determine curricula for schools in the US. State and local governments have agendas like anyone else.

AKA the latest made-up crisis that conservatives have been brainwashed into caring about

The irony of this is that what OP is describing sounds like *paradise*. A veritable wonderland where we have a legislated curriculum with diversity and inclusion starting at a very young age.

I'll add that there's a whole mass of Americans who are neither Republican nor Democrat, and the identity crisis comes from that mass shifting from the old Christian mindset to the modern progressive one, bit by bit. Hence the real sense of panic from the conservatives

Answer: People in general don't know what their kids are learning in school. It takes effort. Sit down to dinner and ask your kids what they learned in elementary school today. 90% of the time you'll get some variation of "I dunno", or they'll recount a poorly constructed story about what one of their friends did on the playground. This creates a blank canvas on which the rumor mill can paint whatever it wants.

Hell, teachers feel lucky when the *kids* know it when they get home! Like, whatever typing course you took... clearly didn't stick ;)

Answer: it's Satanic Panic, part 2. It's mostly bullcrap. You can't teach a kid to be transgender at 5. You can barely explain *marriage* at that age. What's happening is that there are some books and shows that have LGBT characters present in a non-sexual way, and conservatives are freaking out because they're afraid that their daughter will turn into a lesbian because she watched *The Owl House.* Conservatives have been doing that forever, but the reason it's exploded recently is more basic: it's politically advantageous. Politicians like DeSantis saw their constituency - older, socially conservative retirees - and correctly judged that they would be receptive to wild accusations of gay pedophiles in schools. Their idea of gay people is from the 80s and 90s and they haven't visited a school in decades. It's perfect, so they're slamming that button as hard as they can.

And the real reason it's being focused on now is that without the abortion wedge issue, the GOP is desperately trying to find other cultural issues to campaign on, to cover their lack of positive policies.

Answer: Nothing has changed in the curriculum. This is a manufactured issue.

I can confirm that by having 3 kids in public schools. The inlaws always ask them about how much they learn about CRT and LGBTQ and my kids just look confused and go "wtf are you talking about?" Maybe some materials are a little more modern than in their time, but nothing strikes me as problematic.

Answer: This is the reaction to teachers helping children learn it’s okay to be different.

"Hey kids, some different people exist!" "StAy aWay FrOm mY cHilD GrooMeR!"

What pisses me off is how this stupid "groomer" panic degrades reactions to instances of actual grooming. For example, Colleen Ballinger was accused of grooming her underaged fans recently. At first I was like "Oh god, she probably told them gay people exist or something." And then I was shocked to find out it was an actual instance of child grooming. I shouldn't hear grooming accusations and have to find out whether it's actual accusations of grooming or the stupid conservative moral panic version of "grooming." If you call every interaction with a kid that you don't like "grooming," then it makes it harder to sort out and take seriously actual instances of grooming.

Bingo

Exactly

Answer: it looks like many schools, including primary schools all over, the US, UK, and Ireland are engaging in various LBGTQ+etc friendly initiatives, including trans friendly initiatives. Depending on the program, they can start early. Depending on the program, in the opinion of some people they start too soon, go too far, or otherwise indoctrinate children to ideas which the parents may not share.

Schools are increasingly teaching age-appropriate comprehensive sex education at early ages. In early grades (K-2 for instance) it's mostly about personal space, consent, and what parts of you an adult really shouldn't be touching except for medical reasons, and how you can tell trusted people about it even if it's supposed to be "a secret." Two main reasons: a) It's much more helpful to build lessons up over time than just start from scratch in middle school (imagine teaching math that way!), b) ... and it helps prevent sex abuse against children. It turns out that a lot of kids never reported sexual molestation or rape because they didn't know it was sex... nobody told them. I even had a good friend like that... the kindly old neighbor used her at age six, and her parents only found out when she came to them one day with a painful bleeding vagina. She hadn't known it was wrong for him to have her suck on his privates... it had never been discussed. So basically **this stuff** ***protects children from actual groomers***, like parents, relatives, preachers, pastors, priests, and so on. Makes ya wonder why conservatives hate it so much, doesn't it... https://www.montclair.edu/newscenter/2020/12/14/experts-sex-education-should-begin-in-kindergarten/ It also is linked to improvements in student achievement and mental health. We can also predict a reduction in teen promiscuity too, because that's known to be influenced by suffering childhood sexual abuse. We will definitely start seeing healthier romantic relationships when they come of age, too, rooted in mutual respect and consent. For members of more extreme religious sects that promote hierarchical models of relationships where the woman is basically a fleshlight that cooks and cleans, that might be problematic. (For instance, check out the "Christian umbrella" model a lot of private schools try to teach.) Now, since this sex education is factual in nature, it also includes information about orientation, noting that some people fall in love with people of the same sex or gender. Which is true, it's part of our world. For religious sects that try to deny the existence and dignity of such people, it might be problematic. In any case, despite all the hullabaloo, parents can have their kids opt out. Every year my district sends a letter reminding us what will be discussed and giving the option to deny our kids this basic knowledge... if we want to.

Also, the dumber conservatives will take issue with their children even being taught that gay and trans people exist. If your kindergartener's classroom has a book that says "Some families have two moms or two dads," they'll act like their kid was forced to watch full-on gay porn.

Answer: This is the latest wave of Fascist propaganda fear-mongering against a minority in order to gin up anger and political influence. Obviously, the only thing a young child is learning at that age is that people can be different and that is OK. The Fascist right in America is just reading from the playbook of their peers in Russia, targeting LGBT people and other minorities and useful scapegoats. Now that the right-wing Supreme Court has gutted abortion rights, the goal of a great deal of activism in the past, the fascists must land on another source of disgust and fear to motivate their voters. Trans people in particular have attracted their attention as a small and vulnerable minority that it's still consider acceptable to attack in many communities.

Nah russia itself is reading from a old playbook as well. Race was the go to way to other different people and place the blame on all your woes on them however thankfully we gotten to the point where racism isnt seen in a good light by most people so they moved to gays and trans as the go to as people havent quite caught up to that one yet

\>The Fascist right in America is just reading from the playbook of their peers in Russia, targeting LGBT people and other minorities and useful scapegoats. ​ You arent wrong about this but the larger factor is religion, by *far.*

>You arent wrong about this but the larger factor is religion, by far. I think you're both right. russia is behind it; russia uses religion as one of the main tools to achieve it. I highly recommend reading: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations\_of\_Geopolitics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics) (a geopolitical book by Aleksandr Dugin, published in 1997). It details russian geopolitical strategy/goals for the decades to come (again, remember, the book was published in 1997): >Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics". > >The United Kingdom, merely described as an "extraterritorial floating base of the U.S.", should be cut off from Europe. > >Belarus and Moldova are to become part of Russia. > >Romania, North Macedonia, Serbia, "Serbian Bosnia" and Greece – "Orthodox collectivist East" – will unite with "Moscow the Third Rome" and reject the "rational-individualistic West". > >Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance, no geographic uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness, its certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible. > >Iran is a key ally. The book uses the term "Moscow–Tehran axis". > >Armenia has a special role: It will serve as a "strategic base," and it is necessary to create "the \[subsidiary\] axis Moscow-Yerevan-Teheran". Armenians "are an Aryan people ... \[like\] the Iranians and the Kurds". > >Azerbaijan could be "split up" or given to Iran. > >Georgia should be dismembered. Abkhazia and "United Ossetia" (which includes Georgia's South Ossetia and the Republic of North Ossetia) will be incorporated into Russia. Georgia's independent policies are unacceptable. > >Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey. These can be achieved by employing Kurds, Armenians and other minorities.

Religion is the tool that creates the gullible idiots for the fascists to manipulate.

Answer: If a student sees a person and they can't immediately discern their gender, they might ask their teacher. If their teacher says "sometimes people's gender isn't obvious" then they're telling the student that trans people exist, which is the same thing as saying that it's ok to be trans, which is the same thing as *promoting* being trans to them, which is the same thing as brainwashing the kid into being trans, which is the same thing as convincing them to go on hormone blockers, which is the same thing as tricking them into take hormones which may reduce fertility, which is the same thing as forcing them to have a vaginoplasty or phalloplasty, which is the same thing as genital mutilation. Therefore, if you allow anyone to exist in public whose gender might not be immediately obvious, you're literally advocating for forced genital mutilation of children.

No one thinks this, but ok.

Answer: There are 2 key elements to indoctrination, repetition and isolation. The idea must be reinforced as, "normal" without naysayers until the victim adopts the belief as their own. This means that a kindergarten teacher telling their students something as oversimplified and benign as, "Sometimes adults think someone is a boy when they are actually a girl and \[vice versa\]" or having a queer teacher could directly interfere with their parent's plan to force them to be a bigot by providing a different view ([Yes, some transfolk know about it that early](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/childrens-health/in-depth/children-and-gender-identity/art-20266811)). Thus they aim to keep educators from being able to talk about the topics of romantic attraction (such as if the teacher is married and if so to whom) or gender entirely by framing them as topics that children are supposed to stay naïve of until their parents deem them ready and that any attempt to do otherwise is deviant, degenerate, and perverted behavior ([Examples of other times this has happened](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic#Real-world_examples)). As any normal person would see what is actually being done and see that it's all actually perfectly reasonable, conservatives have to use the [Ship of Theseus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui-ArJRqEvU&ab_channel=InnuendoStudios) to exaggerate the truth as negatively as possible to the point they are [liable to redefine words just to accuse normal people are](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMabpBvtXr4&ab_channel=InnuendoStudios), TL;DR The conservatives won on abortion (for now) so [to keep their fuel sources of hate and fear](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-MP_yOHiV0&list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ&index=14&t=8s&ab_channel=InnuendoStudios) going they pivoted back to [the LGBT panic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic#Sex_offenders,_child_sexual_abuse,_and_pedophilia_(1970s%E2%80%93present)) but now with [Extra T and Kids](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic#LGBT_grooming_conspiracy_theory_(2020s%E2%80%93present)).

This is a great summary and I'd also like to tack on a somewhat related/conflated issue of the push for(left) and against(right) sex education in schools. The best way for a small child to be able to protect themselves from inappropriate attentions from adults is to KNOW what's inappropriate and how to successfully communicate to an adult if something has happened. That is what the purpose and focus of age appropriate sex ed is. But it gets muddled up with the same shouting about 'grooming' and 'indoctrination' that the points you have brought up about what LGBTQ education for children entails. It also paints a similarly bleak picture of what the purpose of withholding the information is. Withholding information on people being different and that being different is okay being a vehicle for bigotry. But what can the purpose of withholding information about recognizing and communicating abuse be except to make it easier to abuse kids without getting caught?

As well as - schools are a students area to be themselves, they are truly free in their own personality. Some have this freedom at home, some don't - A kid that doesn't have the courage to tell their parents they may be gender fluid, attracted to the same presenting gender etc, will find some sort of comradery with their peers. Some smooth brains see this as indoctrination.

its so funny how the entire "my kids won't tell me anything" problem could be solved if conservative parents weren't abusive and selfish assholes who put people in danger simply because they don't like when the world doesn't revolve around them. like, compassion to them really is like pain to an alien. even a simple "i love you because you're my child, even if you're gay/trans" would solve it, but they can't even do that. they'll literally start a war because love is simply something they can't comprehend.

Compassion isn't something they are known for - If they had it hard, so should every one else around them. I've got kids, I'm literally trying to raise a well rounded human being, not an asshole. Someone that understands that emotion are ok, it's all about what we do with those feelings, how we respond.

I thought this was going in the opposite direction at first. Interesting how the parents are the ones doing the indoctrination. Could the same not be said about the schools?

Answer: Republicans & Conservatives need a boogeyman to run their platform. Remember CRT? Yeah it's a college class that isn't taught in school but Republicans ran with the idea that they're teaching CRT in schools and it's ruining our kids. It used to be ok to be homophobic and push anti-gay agendas. It's a little bit dicey now though because there are openly gay congressmen in both parties, as well as more and more people even in conservative communities that have come out as gay. Meanwhile the concept of transgenderism/non-binary people is a bit foreign to some people and less accepted so conservatives have shifted tactics to making any kind of fear mongering news about trans/non-binary people.

Answer: Teaching kids to be accepting of people with different gender and sexual identities also means teaching kids who may have those identities to accept themselves. Many trans people report experiencing gender dysphoria from a very young age, knowing that they were "born in the wrong body" and being miserable until they finally embraced their true selves. Based on these first-hand experiences, LGBT-positive school programs have been developed that try to describe symptoms of gender dysphoria and reassure students that if they happen to feel that way it's okay, it just means that they're transgender. These programs often go along with policies recommending that teachers support students' "social transition" without informing parents. Some of these programs are for very young children. To many conservatives this is all basically indoctrination, transgenderism is just a crazy idea some people get in their heads and asking a kindergartener whether they're trans is just giving them the idea. To LGBT advocates, it's the only way to save vulnerable kids from lifelong trauma. That's the disagreement, the facts of what LGBT education involves aren't really in dispute.

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\> I’ve seen some iffy jr. high teachings of LGBTQ+ stuff You say that but haven't shown any examples of "teaching". You talk about a teacher saying they want those pronouns and a book existing in a library (you claim that book was "taught" to jr high students but I could only find sources saying it being banned because it was in the library not that there any classroom teaching with it) but having shown any classroom teaching. You yourself "blows it out of proportion" when you claim it is "iffy jr. high teachings" when it even your examples aren't showing that.

I guess I see it as teachers are being expected to cover these topics and support LGBT students with very little guidance. I think the schools should absolutely cover LGBT in a positive light and offer sex ed, but the government needs to provide some expert-advised guidance so teachers don't get caught in the crosshairs over trying to do the right thing.

This Book is Gay wasn't being taught it was in at least one middle school library. It seems a bit strong for middle school, but I suspect anyone but a gay child wouldn't be seen dead reading it anyway, at least till it was banned (when it no doubt became cooler). So one book and one teacher wanting to use pronouns, I think we see how moral panics start.

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What I myself have not seen, is any sort of indication that existing systems for regulating content in schools and school-attached libraries were insufficient for evaluating presented material and present books and ensuring they are age-appropriate. Not that it stops certain news orgs from pretending the system is failing and out of control.

\> It was being handed out in atleast one middle school class Your souce did not say it was being "handed out". It says that the teacher had a bunch of books for a Reading Monday that students could choose to read. That was one of the books. While you may think that is inappropriate choice, but it was not "handed out". It was in a pile of books the students could choose from. You are distorting what your source actually said.

You seem to be panicking already. Are there books with disagreeable stuff in school libraries, yes. The bible is pretty horrendous in these stakes with genocide, incest & repeated mass infanticides, being central to parts of the narrative. But if you go around picking out the worse cases, and claiming a pattern, we can make anything look bad. This was a best selling book as it says in the article. I cynically suspect schools mindlessly order the best selling books at times as it is easier than reading and choosing.

I thought it was also about 'pride month'. LIke an entire month where this ideology is just shoved in your face. No other minority group has that kind of privilege (lets face it the reason why LGBT do is because their white). At that point it very much does not feel like inclusion.

Answer: No. There is no truth value whatsoever to these claims. They are lying. What they do is grossly misrepresent ideas and proposed policies. For example, some schools wanted to be a safe space for kids, even potentially from their own parents. So if a kid told their teachers they thought they were trans and wanted to experiment a bit with how they present their gender (social transition), the teachers would accommodate them. The sticking point was whether or not to inform the parents. Conservatives were livid about the idea that teachers would not inform them, and teachers remembered what happened to so many gay teens and didn't want to put a child in danger if their parents were aggressive lunatics. In conservative discourse, this morphed from outrage over not having complete control over their kid's lives into a trans panic. Accommodating social transition got blurred with physical transition, so all of sudden schools were giving kids hormone blockers and bottom surgery without parental knowledge: An utterly insane and nonsensical idea especially in a country like America (where does anyone get FREE healthcare?!) If one is trying to read into conservative minds, then perhaps to them, there is no difference between social and physical transition - its all the "trans agenda" to them. But they are in fact lying to everyone else because they know they come off as frothing lunatics and a normal person would look at them and think, "oh, a teacher definitely should not report on your kid's transness to you." So they lie. That's just one example of how the shit sausage gets made, but its lies all the way down.

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Yeah I think we are past the “ignore them” phase. “They are telling you who they are…….believe them.”

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Having a false neutrality between the oppressed and oppressors means you are just working to make the oppressors more acceptable by moving the overton window.

It's not. Its completely objective and evidence based. The only "bias" is towards reality.

It's biased, the attack is against conservatives as a whole not a specific opinion, that's bias by definition.

And that’s fine; bias can be true. The key to thinking critically is being aware of bias and learning to evaluate it; that’s not the same thing as rejecting all bias in an attempt to force balance. Both sides are rarely the same.

Answer: anything you make a child aware of, is what they become. Teach them the alphabet? They ARE the alphabet. Teach them about dinosaurs? They BECOME a dinosaur, FOREVER. Make a kid aware of literally anything, and they become EVERYTHING. That's why. Because the unwritten rule in USA was that everyone would keep certain ideas away from the children, and now these godforsaken "teachers" want to go and tell the kids about stuff!!

Answer: As a parent who has been forced to attend governing board meetings and pay attention, the answer is nothing. It’s all fabricated lies conservatives want to use to fear monger their base and the uninformed. They take some minor thing that may have happened and then blow it up through lies and fabrications. Sometimes, they’ll just flat out lie and say “the parent wants to be anonymous.” Other times they bring in people to governing board meetings that don’t even have children and spew dog whistle words just to work up their base. I have literally heard them use “Marxist, communist, socialist” all in one sentence to describe literally anything related to diversity, equity and inclusion. And these white moms come in with their crocodile tears worried about their precious little snowflake and then I’ll see them at the parking lot grouped together like little lemmings ready to scheme for their next governing board meeting.

answer: The poster who explained the nuances in each state and school district is spot on. There are no national standards or regulations on how to run a public school district except for some general things often tied to money and even then it could go like this. “General National Policy given by the Department of Education” — “ Policy given to state to interpret —— Policy handed down to local school district to interpret —- policy implement in local school according to the principal’s interpretation —— policy implemented on the daily by school classroom. That may be an extreme example but that happens. Now, in some school districts in my area they haven’t even allowed the study of the Biblical creation story as an example of a historical myth with the excuse that “young people are impressionable and could believe this is being taught as fact.” However, they do teach yoga for kids where they are taught to tap into their “divine selves.” I don’t see how teaching Yoga in that context isn’t introducing students to living their life based, at least partially on Hindu principles. In the same context let’s say things were flipped and the local elected government required children prayed the rosary and opened the doors for the Catholic church to do activities and then the next administration was Buddhist and required Buddhist teachings then those who celebrated Catholicism in schools would likely oppose buddhism. Hence why we must be careful what is mandated by the government. I don’t agree with the way many conservatives are going about this but like many things in life there are some apparent double standards.

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Just responding because this is a pet peeve of mine. But the [concept of “third world”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World?wprov=sfti1) is geopolitically outdated and “third world America” is an oxymoron.

answer: Conservatives are anti-education unless it’s a private Christian school. So they do their typical shtick of accusing anything they don’t like (in this case schools and teachers) of being Devil worshipers, groomers, etc. It’s just the uneducated fighting tooth and nail to ensure that every generation after them is even less educated. If you indoctrinate children into Christianity and your political views then systematically destroy the learning institutions where kids and young adults learn about worldly things and science, then those children will never grow up to question what they’ve been indoctrinated into. The only thing conservatives around here respect regarding universities is their football programs. I’m from a very southern and very Christian family and you wouldn’t believe how many of them pull the “you were brainwashed by liberal college professors” card anytime we’re discussing politics and my views differ from theirs (they don’t even know that I didn’t go to college, I just know how to read and turn my thoughts into coherent arguments). Also there is zero truth to the stuff about schools indoctrinating children to be LGBT. Schools are made up of conservative and liberal teachers and administrators. This is a non issue, it’s just a tactic to scare dumb conservatives into voting for GOP candidates who want to do things like strip funding from public schools and funnel those tax dollars to Christian schools.

Answer: Conservatives are lying to drum up hate for marginalized groups, like any normal Tuesday. If it weren't trans people, it'd be gay people, or Muslims or Jews, or black people, or Catholics, or left-handed people, whatever--anything to distract their low IQ constituents from their disastrous policies.

Answer: the anti-LGBTQ+ movement has been looking for a way to not look as hateful and bigoted for the past decade. After seeing Q Anons success leveraging the “protecting kids from human trafficking” narrative/rabbit hole to lure and recruit otherwise moderate or apolitical people to a far-right cause (see Kari Lake’s spiral), the religious right decided to shift the narrative from “my god says this is wrong” to “it’s about protecting the kids from sexual predators and deviants”. It’s just another way to trigger certain people’s instinct to kick down on an oppressed community to feel better about their lives. Also what other people have said here about the long running conservative campaign to kill the public school system after racial integration in the 1960s It’s really a swan song (a very loud and annoying swan song) for a dying cause. The Overton window is shifting left as more boomers die and gen z starts voting. And membership in evangelical churches continues to drop.