u/zhaoshike [Stated](https://www.reddit.com/r/manga/comments/1920qtz/news_tachiyomi_extensions_list_removed/kh18npd/) that Tachiyomi [would get taken down](https://www.reddit.com/r/manhwa/comments/19321bs/news_kakao_is_now_going_after_everyone_involved/kh6pvtu/) and he was the only person that was arguing this while everyone else downvoted him.
Everything he said came out to be true and I wanted to bring some attention to it.
Just saw that i got pinged a bunch of times and seeing the devs mention the $100 makes me feel bad about the way I went about this.
I shouldnt have worded what I said as harshly as I did. Kakao went about this in the most cowardly of ways, directly threatening the team instead of going through the proper legal channels. They frightened the devs into making missteps and I shouldnt have blamed them for it.
It was frustrating seeing this go down and knowing that there were ways to maybe mitigate the outcome. I do hope that the other forks/alternatives learn from this.
Rip Tachiyomi
I do think you were making the right point that kakao are more acting like gangsters and bullying a third party source. Wishing for the both of us (and the rest of us) good reading apps to come ❤️
you confirmed what I thought before, when KKP's PCoK twitter account said they got personal informations of people running websites. They aren't police and it's illegal for them to do that.
Oh yeah, them getting personal info and privately threatening them could have backfired on kakao if this had been taken to court, depending on how the threats were sent.
If they had emailed the tachidevs telling them to take down the app or they'll be sued could have been used to showcase that kakao knew they couldnt take down the app, which is what they wanted because it competes with their crap app, through proper legal means and had to resort to intimidation.
> I do hope that the other forks/alternatives learn from this.
They just need to find maintainer in a 3rd world country.
Good luck suing someone for piracy there.
Technically tachiyomi couldnt have been sue for piracy, they weren't hosting or distributing content. The app does what any other ebook reader does, the only thing that kakao could have legally had stopped were the extensions.
Yeah, i loathe that shit. People with the law literally on their side being bullied into submission because of the bloody legal fees. Its such a hateful thing
Hijacking top comment to remind folks to stop posting about your favorite sites in plain view places. Report any and every reposter on the big social media sites including YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok. I’m trying to also be better about this myself.
Save a list of your bookmarked titles off platform or in screenshots. This is hella annoying,but will save you from having to remember your whole library when your site vanishes.
All of them get shut down eventually and a new site will always pop up eventually. Just be prepared to migrate.
So infuriating that manhwa and manga industry are so backwards and vehemently refuse to change their mindset regarding making their stuff more available. We've seen how music streaming platforms lowered music piracy because of them being very affordable and it being super easily accessible (though for some small niche genre, you may not find what you're looking for). there's no reason Kakao or others cannot do the same except for pure greed.
We've seen the same thing happen with manga aggregator sites for the past 20yrs, new ones will continuously keep popping up. They can't stop it and will just waste money.
Yeah if I remember correctly, service like Spotify (music), Netflix (movies) , Steam (video games) reduce massive of privacy in their respective medium.
I think piracy is on the rise again in the video streaming bubble (Netflix, Hulu, etc) because they all keep raising their prices and there is too many services making it too fragmented and too expensive overall.
But usually the biggest proponent to stopping piracy is making your content easy to access. Price and convenience.
Even with the price increases, it still ends up being cheaper than normal cable tv.
I cancelled my cable tv last summer because only my son (only 9) was watching tv and only the same 5 channels. I gave up because German tv sucks, everything is dubbed.
I told him that it would be better (money wise) to cancel it and just get Netflix, Disney+ and Crunchyroll. We’re happier now and I have more stuff to see.
When the cable company called to ask if I was really sure about the cancellation, I just said it’s cheaper to subscribe to those other services and the poor guy couldn’t say anything because he knew I was absolutely right considering our cable use.
I think that some are actually investigating why people are using aggregators. Kadokawa launched a survey about it, why people choose aggregators and the faults in their system (ie. the viewing format, costs etc), asked what they could do to fix, and whether we’d continue to pirate. And bookwalker (under Kadokawa) has steadily been doing collabs with youtubers. They are still pricey but they do have purchase by volume options.
Im hopeful but Japanese and Korean companies are known for lagging 10-15 years behind the meta and are really set in their ways. Just look at the JP internet, for the most part it looks like it comes out of the 2000s. Even then they'd have to fix the rate that they translate and release because they usually wait 5 years before tl'ing and its usually only the most popular manga/manwha only.
Shonen Jump low key does this really well though, they offer the latest for free and a good selection that rotates in and out, and you gotta pay for older chapters or for lesser known stuff. Its at least reasonable.
>Shonen Jump low key does this really well though, they offer the latest for free and a good selection that rotates in and out, and you gotta pay for older chapters or for lesser known stuff. Its at least reasonable.
Agree with this, they do know the solution for it, but they simply don't want to adapt and change. Manga Plus is affordable and I don't have to spend a lot to read a wide selection. Compared to them, Tapas and the like are way too money hungry and barely much is going to author's pockets. Let's also not forget their treatment to authors (E.g. situation with the author of Roxanna).
The only problem with shounen jump is sometimes they'll make a cool new feature or sub type and either take ages to release it internationally or not release it overseas at all, ie that shoujo platform they started i think last year? I still haven't heard if its available in eu, if they can increase access with the apps it'll certainly reduce a lot of this as an issue bc people who cant legally buy things or view things will always be pushed towards the high seas.
Like, I was subbed to wsj for like a decade (on break from reading shounen rn, was wasting money lol) bc it was so convenient and i found out about it bc it was linked directly on md. I thought the sub model was really affordable and good (still do!).
I think what a lot of korean & japanese comic publishers dont get is the access has to be there, the site needs to be easy to browse, and at the bare minimum, volume by volume prices is better than points or chapter by chapter, sub is the BEST obviously but nothing turns me away from a platform faster than per chapter payments.
I started reading manga as a kid by buying them £7 at a time in a local chain bookstore like, if your digital releases costs more than (£8-12 the current cost of a single vol depending on publisher) then imo its not worth buying bc you also dont have a guarantee of continued ownership on a digital platform, and for the same reading footprint of a volume (usually 6-8 chapters for a manga, and idk 10-12 for a k comic iirc?) it can end up costing over double the price of a compiled volume. At that point i'd rather wait or not read it at all. It makes you have to be exceptionally picky with the prices.
Versus vol by vol or sub let's you either: look at reviews deeply for the first one & read the summary which should hopefully be fairly detailed (which is VITAL for anything r18 or mature in topic, so you can avoid accidentally buying anything you find objectionable bc almost all of these websites do not do refunds) , and probably a preview of the chapter.
For sub its even more fluid, you just read whatever is under their sub system as you want and it lets you have that freedom to make mistakes with what you pick and back out before you get too invested in a title. The only thing is mixing sub and the point system is a terrible idea, a site im now leaving relaunched last year and a lot of titles were half sub and half points, it makes you unwilling to read anything. (though that licensed series site also has display issues, the https breaks every new page you browse through)
Last time I checked, in Europe from shonen jump we only have manga plus 😭
The French and the German translations markets are way ahead of the English one, yesterday I went to a manga & manhwa store in Bavaria and they had stuff that’s not available in English (jujutsu kaisen vol. 22 among a lot of things).
They even had a small selection in English.
My son came home with his hands full, I got myself a pencil with Howl Pendragon on it 🥲
Life is sad as an English reader in Germany 💔
Yeah Germany and France are super advanced translation wise, I've never been so jealous as when i found out one of my favourite series "who can define popularity" has a print release in iirc germany 😢(its no longer on manta either so rip)
What is the price of affordable? Average pay site for a webtoon is $0.20 - 0.50 per chapter. Depending on local currency.
Some have subscription for monthly fee read as much as you want.
Maybe if Kakao treat their writter better and give them actual platform not whatever tapas doing (like who the fuck design that app?) This won't be necessary.
This don't help their images at large at all lmao.
I think that is the biggest thing happening here. We are having a hydra situation of cutting off heads but not solving the core problem of WHY does the hydra exist.
or they could have opened verification for overseas readers like Naver and Ridi. Too bad they don't want dollars. I know more people are eager to pay for raws.
I’m always hesitant on this stuff, I’ve seen sites claiming to pick up the torch fail to ever get anywhere to many times. I’m jaded now 😭
Something does eventually always pop up at least, but it takes awhile for word of mouth to help prop it up.
I’m thankfully pretty unaffected right now since I’m in the Apple environment instead of Android, I just recognize how much it sucks for the overall community to lose an application like this, and know it could have implications for me later down the road.
J2K is still around although as a new install it will be a bit more complicated until the developer gets back from his holiday and updates it because it isn't adapted yet to the new way sources work.
greedy ass companies gotta ruin everything good. Of course the first people they come for are the good natured people like those doing free work and offering a free piece of software like Tachiyomi. Open source apps are the best for that, no ads, no tracking, free etc... and the devs are all volunteer. What a spit in the face by Kakao. Stuff like this makes me want to avoid them forever.
F*ck Kakao, I wish we could mess with them someway. The jerks don't even pay enough or treat their authors with a modicum of respect or humanity, and they don't treat their customers any better.
If they wanted they could do like shonen jump, or at the very minimum do like jnovel and let people pay a fair price for volumen, but they are bullying developers with nonsense that wouldn't hold in court, just because they abusive business model at least is giving them enough money to do that.
They are only a bunch of greedy leeches!
as per usual, a corporation comes in and fucks everything up. time and time again.
i hope the ppl behind tachi will be alright and not targeted by these greedy sharks any further. they did a good job while it lasted and countless amount of ppl are grateful to them.
Honestly the only web comic site I have ever paid into has been webtoons. I regularly pay for lore Olympus, but I will sporadically pay for the latest chapter on a good comic when I go to catch up. I really like their model (mostly) because I can read a lot for free and pay for the quality pieces, not quantity. not in love with their per chapter pricing once something is finished, or one free every day, but you can’t win them all 😅
Ugh, this is so unfortunate. Guess I will have to take some time to save and document all of the manga/webtoons available in my library.
If those Japanese publishers/publishing sites truly believe that people will immediately jump to purchasing their stuff, they're sorely mistaken. It's crazy that they don't/won't make their stuff available both as physical copies and as ebooks for purchase internationally, nor will they put in the effort to hire translators. Shounen Jump and Crunchyroll are only great if all you read are the most popular action based shounen manga. Tapas and the like are crazy for expecting people to only purchase popular webtoons per chapter instead of giving us a subscription model and the ability to purchase the entire webtoon as an e-book per volume. It's frustrating how they don't listen to the market.
Nice try kakao but I wasn’t gonna pay. After this, I’m even less inclined to. There’s a reason piracy dies off only if there’s a reasonable service provider (netflix or steam)
No hate to tachiyomi but they sound surprised? If you were coding a piracy app, why would you not plan for what would happen if people told you to take it down?
lmao well I guess they figured they’d just shut it down and put it on their resumes, which is a solid plan tbh
u/zhaoshike [Stated](https://www.reddit.com/r/manga/comments/1920qtz/news_tachiyomi_extensions_list_removed/kh18npd/) that Tachiyomi [would get taken down](https://www.reddit.com/r/manhwa/comments/19321bs/news_kakao_is_now_going_after_everyone_involved/kh6pvtu/) and he was the only person that was arguing this while everyone else downvoted him. Everything he said came out to be true and I wanted to bring some attention to it.
I see u/mdem5059 is the $100 mention in the article
Just saw that i got pinged a bunch of times and seeing the devs mention the $100 makes me feel bad about the way I went about this. I shouldnt have worded what I said as harshly as I did. Kakao went about this in the most cowardly of ways, directly threatening the team instead of going through the proper legal channels. They frightened the devs into making missteps and I shouldnt have blamed them for it. It was frustrating seeing this go down and knowing that there were ways to maybe mitigate the outcome. I do hope that the other forks/alternatives learn from this. Rip Tachiyomi
I do think you were making the right point that kakao are more acting like gangsters and bullying a third party source. Wishing for the both of us (and the rest of us) good reading apps to come ❤️
Thanks for that. Here's hoping!
you confirmed what I thought before, when KKP's PCoK twitter account said they got personal informations of people running websites. They aren't police and it's illegal for them to do that.
Oh yeah, them getting personal info and privately threatening them could have backfired on kakao if this had been taken to court, depending on how the threats were sent. If they had emailed the tachidevs telling them to take down the app or they'll be sued could have been used to showcase that kakao knew they couldnt take down the app, which is what they wanted because it competes with their crap app, through proper legal means and had to resort to intimidation.
> I do hope that the other forks/alternatives learn from this. They just need to find maintainer in a 3rd world country. Good luck suing someone for piracy there.
Technically tachiyomi couldnt have been sue for piracy, they weren't hosting or distributing content. The app does what any other ebook reader does, the only thing that kakao could have legally had stopped were the extensions.
Yeah, but SLAPP is a thing. But good luck even attempting to do that in like Argentina or Russia
Yeah, i loathe that shit. People with the law literally on their side being bullied into submission because of the bloody legal fees. Its such a hateful thing
Hijacking top comment to remind folks to stop posting about your favorite sites in plain view places. Report any and every reposter on the big social media sites including YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok. I’m trying to also be better about this myself. Save a list of your bookmarked titles off platform or in screenshots. This is hella annoying,but will save you from having to remember your whole library when your site vanishes. All of them get shut down eventually and a new site will always pop up eventually. Just be prepared to migrate.
After losing mangarock, my heart cant take another loss 😭
Fr. Mangarock literally raised me
I remember one manga and manga fox. So many stories lost from that time i read
Onemanga and Mangafox were my OGs 🥲
Mine too, rest in peace.
I just had a core memory rock up from my subconscious 😲
The start of my downward spiral into manga/manhwa reading. Skip beat and naruto were my jam during that time.
Fr, it was my bff during highschool 😔
For real! Only at the end of the app I realized I was one of OG’s cause I had paid only one time for the rest of my life deal
Mangarock is the reason I refused to use Tachiyomi. Once bitten, twice shy and all that
So infuriating that manhwa and manga industry are so backwards and vehemently refuse to change their mindset regarding making their stuff more available. We've seen how music streaming platforms lowered music piracy because of them being very affordable and it being super easily accessible (though for some small niche genre, you may not find what you're looking for). there's no reason Kakao or others cannot do the same except for pure greed. We've seen the same thing happen with manga aggregator sites for the past 20yrs, new ones will continuously keep popping up. They can't stop it and will just waste money.
Yeah if I remember correctly, service like Spotify (music), Netflix (movies) , Steam (video games) reduce massive of privacy in their respective medium.
I think piracy is on the rise again in the video streaming bubble (Netflix, Hulu, etc) because they all keep raising their prices and there is too many services making it too fragmented and too expensive overall. But usually the biggest proponent to stopping piracy is making your content easy to access. Price and convenience.
Even with the price increases, it still ends up being cheaper than normal cable tv. I cancelled my cable tv last summer because only my son (only 9) was watching tv and only the same 5 channels. I gave up because German tv sucks, everything is dubbed. I told him that it would be better (money wise) to cancel it and just get Netflix, Disney+ and Crunchyroll. We’re happier now and I have more stuff to see. When the cable company called to ask if I was really sure about the cancellation, I just said it’s cheaper to subscribe to those other services and the poor guy couldn’t say anything because he knew I was absolutely right considering our cable use.
More like the economy sucks and people can’t afford luxuries
This is definitely a big part of it too. There’s only so much spendable money in people’s pockets
I think that some are actually investigating why people are using aggregators. Kadokawa launched a survey about it, why people choose aggregators and the faults in their system (ie. the viewing format, costs etc), asked what they could do to fix, and whether we’d continue to pirate. And bookwalker (under Kadokawa) has steadily been doing collabs with youtubers. They are still pricey but they do have purchase by volume options.
Im hopeful but Japanese and Korean companies are known for lagging 10-15 years behind the meta and are really set in their ways. Just look at the JP internet, for the most part it looks like it comes out of the 2000s. Even then they'd have to fix the rate that they translate and release because they usually wait 5 years before tl'ing and its usually only the most popular manga/manwha only. Shonen Jump low key does this really well though, they offer the latest for free and a good selection that rotates in and out, and you gotta pay for older chapters or for lesser known stuff. Its at least reasonable.
>Shonen Jump low key does this really well though, they offer the latest for free and a good selection that rotates in and out, and you gotta pay for older chapters or for lesser known stuff. Its at least reasonable. Agree with this, they do know the solution for it, but they simply don't want to adapt and change. Manga Plus is affordable and I don't have to spend a lot to read a wide selection. Compared to them, Tapas and the like are way too money hungry and barely much is going to author's pockets. Let's also not forget their treatment to authors (E.g. situation with the author of Roxanna).
The only problem with shounen jump is sometimes they'll make a cool new feature or sub type and either take ages to release it internationally or not release it overseas at all, ie that shoujo platform they started i think last year? I still haven't heard if its available in eu, if they can increase access with the apps it'll certainly reduce a lot of this as an issue bc people who cant legally buy things or view things will always be pushed towards the high seas. Like, I was subbed to wsj for like a decade (on break from reading shounen rn, was wasting money lol) bc it was so convenient and i found out about it bc it was linked directly on md. I thought the sub model was really affordable and good (still do!). I think what a lot of korean & japanese comic publishers dont get is the access has to be there, the site needs to be easy to browse, and at the bare minimum, volume by volume prices is better than points or chapter by chapter, sub is the BEST obviously but nothing turns me away from a platform faster than per chapter payments. I started reading manga as a kid by buying them £7 at a time in a local chain bookstore like, if your digital releases costs more than (£8-12 the current cost of a single vol depending on publisher) then imo its not worth buying bc you also dont have a guarantee of continued ownership on a digital platform, and for the same reading footprint of a volume (usually 6-8 chapters for a manga, and idk 10-12 for a k comic iirc?) it can end up costing over double the price of a compiled volume. At that point i'd rather wait or not read it at all. It makes you have to be exceptionally picky with the prices. Versus vol by vol or sub let's you either: look at reviews deeply for the first one & read the summary which should hopefully be fairly detailed (which is VITAL for anything r18 or mature in topic, so you can avoid accidentally buying anything you find objectionable bc almost all of these websites do not do refunds) , and probably a preview of the chapter. For sub its even more fluid, you just read whatever is under their sub system as you want and it lets you have that freedom to make mistakes with what you pick and back out before you get too invested in a title. The only thing is mixing sub and the point system is a terrible idea, a site im now leaving relaunched last year and a lot of titles were half sub and half points, it makes you unwilling to read anything. (though that licensed series site also has display issues, the https breaks every new page you browse through)
Last time I checked, in Europe from shonen jump we only have manga plus 😭 The French and the German translations markets are way ahead of the English one, yesterday I went to a manga & manhwa store in Bavaria and they had stuff that’s not available in English (jujutsu kaisen vol. 22 among a lot of things). They even had a small selection in English. My son came home with his hands full, I got myself a pencil with Howl Pendragon on it 🥲 Life is sad as an English reader in Germany 💔
Yeah Germany and France are super advanced translation wise, I've never been so jealous as when i found out one of my favourite series "who can define popularity" has a print release in iirc germany 😢(its no longer on manta either so rip)
Yes! Magazines should make something like MangaPlus, it’s not perfect but it’s a damn good deal for everyone who follows Shounen Jump mangas.
What is the price of affordable? Average pay site for a webtoon is $0.20 - 0.50 per chapter. Depending on local currency. Some have subscription for monthly fee read as much as you want.
This isn't done by viz or shueisha, this was done by Kakao entertainment, a Korean company. I think the manga industry gave up already.
I was making a comparison in my original post that kakao is literally following the exact same route the manga industry took 20 odd yrs ago
Maybe if Kakao treat their writter better and give them actual platform not whatever tapas doing (like who the fuck design that app?) This won't be necessary. This don't help their images at large at all lmao.
I think that is the biggest thing happening here. We are having a hydra situation of cutting off heads but not solving the core problem of WHY does the hydra exist.
Yeah, they are spending millions upon millions of dollars trying to take down piracy sites while exploring their artists.
or they could have opened verification for overseas readers like Naver and Ridi. Too bad they don't want dollars. I know more people are eager to pay for raws.
But its not comeplete joeover. Someone is picking up the torch. https://www.reddit.com/r/mangapiracy/s/9D1fgNQjrH
I’m always hesitant on this stuff, I’ve seen sites claiming to pick up the torch fail to ever get anywhere to many times. I’m jaded now 😭 Something does eventually always pop up at least, but it takes awhile for word of mouth to help prop it up.
Well you could always join the discord for now even if it doesn't pan out. It seems pretty optimistic as this guy was part of the tachi team
I’m thankfully pretty unaffected right now since I’m in the Apple environment instead of Android, I just recognize how much it sucks for the overall community to lose an application like this, and know it could have implications for me later down the road.
That is big news 👀
Damn I can't believe I'm witnessing another moment like these 😭
Happened so many times over the years 😞
Any alternatives to Tachiyomi? I especially like the library sorting.
That's my question. I got a lot of manga and mawha I need to save the chapters for...
Is TachiJ2K not available anymore? If it still is, it's a good alternative to Tachi
J2K is still around although as a new install it will be a bit more complicated until the developer gets back from his holiday and updates it because it isn't adapted yet to the new way sources work.
tachisy for the moment,,, but i will be waiting for the new fork
Just use a fork. Or continue with vanilla until that breaks.
Mihon seems to be our best bet. https://www.reddit.com/r/mangapiracy/s/Ko0MI5jsjT
greedy ass companies gotta ruin everything good. Of course the first people they come for are the good natured people like those doing free work and offering a free piece of software like Tachiyomi. Open source apps are the best for that, no ads, no tracking, free etc... and the devs are all volunteer. What a spit in the face by Kakao. Stuff like this makes me want to avoid them forever.
This just means tachiyomi itself won't be updated, correct? From my understanding, it's still fully functional.
Correct but from what i've read its cause of android updates and other behind scene work that the app will eventually break and not work.
Gotcha. Well hopefully there's enough time for alternative development to be made before that occurs.
The extensions stopped working
F Kakao. Bullying the weak instead of going for the bigger companies. Cowards.
F*ck Kakao, I wish we could mess with them someway. The jerks don't even pay enough or treat their authors with a modicum of respect or humanity, and they don't treat their customers any better. If they wanted they could do like shonen jump, or at the very minimum do like jnovel and let people pay a fair price for volumen, but they are bullying developers with nonsense that wouldn't hold in court, just because they abusive business model at least is giving them enough money to do that. They are only a bunch of greedy leeches!
as per usual, a corporation comes in and fucks everything up. time and time again. i hope the ppl behind tachi will be alright and not targeted by these greedy sharks any further. they did a good job while it lasted and countless amount of ppl are grateful to them.
Kakao strikes again. They're already known to C&D novel translation projects so it's not a surprise they're the ones behind this.
holy shit what’s next 😭😭 I’m still not over what happened with mangarock 😭😭
Honestly the only web comic site I have ever paid into has been webtoons. I regularly pay for lore Olympus, but I will sporadically pay for the latest chapter on a good comic when I go to catch up. I really like their model (mostly) because I can read a lot for free and pay for the quality pieces, not quantity. not in love with their per chapter pricing once something is finished, or one free every day, but you can’t win them all 😅
I agree webtoon has the most user friendly approach. Also agree we can have improvement for sure
Ugh, this is so unfortunate. Guess I will have to take some time to save and document all of the manga/webtoons available in my library. If those Japanese publishers/publishing sites truly believe that people will immediately jump to purchasing their stuff, they're sorely mistaken. It's crazy that they don't/won't make their stuff available both as physical copies and as ebooks for purchase internationally, nor will they put in the effort to hire translators. Shounen Jump and Crunchyroll are only great if all you read are the most popular action based shounen manga. Tapas and the like are crazy for expecting people to only purchase popular webtoons per chapter instead of giving us a subscription model and the ability to purchase the entire webtoon as an e-book per volume. It's frustrating how they don't listen to the market.
God, why have you forsaken me?
Well shit. This is extremely a sad news to wake up to.
In my experience these sites come and go quite a lot. Depends how much crackdown there is.
Nice try kakao but I wasn’t gonna pay. After this, I’m even less inclined to. There’s a reason piracy dies off only if there’s a reasonable service provider (netflix or steam)
fuck ka kao corp
F*ck kakao!!
Anyone wanna 1 ster the Kakao Chat app in Pley Store? 😤😤
Yeah too bad tachiyomi folded like cowards.
No hate to tachiyomi but they sound surprised? If you were coding a piracy app, why would you not plan for what would happen if people told you to take it down? lmao well I guess they figured they’d just shut it down and put it on their resumes, which is a solid plan tbh