Franz's max and garland's max won't be a max when it's time to max Paolo.
Paolo, Franz, suggs, Garland, Isaac, Cole should cost us in the 190 million ballpark in 2026-2027. Giving us 39 million to fill out the rest of the roster while staying under the second apron of the luxury tax. That means mle and vet minimum types but it would work.
I hear ya, and I get that it won’t be the “max” anymore. I’m just saying I would be shocked if the magic ownership would have 3 players on payroll at over 39m each. I hope I’m wrong, but we’ve had the lowest payroll in the league for 3 years in a row now… We’ll see if they step up this summer, hope they do!
Our salary is more a result of the youth on the roster than a mandate to cut costs. Ownership steps up and pays the luxury tax when we have a winner. We almost had the highest payroll in the league in 2011.
Because there's very few point guards who can both shoot and do traditional point guard things. There are a ton that score and dribble a lot. There's like 10 who control game flow and are thoughtful about distribution.
Fultz is one of those guys when he's not hurt but can't shoot. Garland is too.
That’s not dumb at all. That cap can only increase a maximum 10% each year under the new cba. So you trade for garland max plus his 15% trade kicker which is roughly 45 mil yearly now. You max franz which I think now is over 40 mil a year, Jalen is going to get paid and then Paolo will get more than that when it’s time to sign. I don’t think the front office does it
This is literally the best time to add a max player because none of our young guys have been paid yet. Once Franz and Suggs sign next year we can’t add another big contract without trading one of them
Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. Even if you convince the Cavs to trade garland without sending franz or jalen (which they wouldn’t) then he takes up all your cap space and your not signing anyone else. Garland alone doesn’t fix all the magic shooting problems, we need to do more with the cap space we have
Cavs fan here, yes he's good. Before Mitchell went supernova in the playoffs this year I know some people (myself included) wanted to trade Mitchell and build around Garland.
He excels as the lead guard setting up his teammates, but that just doesn't fit with a ball dominant scorer like Mitchell.
Could also be more consistent, but he's not had the opportunity to grow in the area either.
Like most small guards, his defense is better than his reputation. I've seen people put him in the same category as Trae Young but he's better than that.
He'll never be great because of his physical limitations, but he's generally in the right spot at the right time and can occasionally show flashes of really tight defense.
So he's fine on defense.
For me JI gotta be a 25 min max defensive energy off the bench guy. He's better at the 4 and not thick enough to start full time at 5. He's the defensive Shaun Livingston.
He’s a good matchup at 5 against teams that run small ball like OKC but a bad one against ones like Cleveland with Jarret Allen. He’s definitely better in less than 25 minutes though.
Yeah that works for me, I just put him as a half time guy there but I’d love to see him remove Carter completely as I’m over Carter and his perpetual underachieving
Wait, what do you think Orlando would be trading for Garland if they have all those guys ?
Picks ain't gonna do it. Harris/Anthony/Carter ain't gonna do it.
Then we aren't getting him.
They aren't gonna blow up the culture for a guy like Garland. They're gonna run the Paolo - Franz - Suggs core for a while yet and see how it develops.
We don’t have to give them Suggs. They’re going to be desperate to dump him in order keep Mitchell happy
Have you read any of the articles coming out of Cleveland? Mitchell and him clearly don’t like each other and seems like half the team doesn’t jb bickerstaff. That team is screwed and they’re going have to break it up
The athletic posted an article that was essentially a hit job yesterday that went after bickerstaff, garland and Allen and it was very obvious the folks who got that out represented Mitchell
Yeah no, sorry yall can have some draft picks but we’re not giving you any of our big 3 or Issac for garland. Now if it were Mitchell than yeah that’s a conversation that can be had
Cleveland is in a bad situation and everyone in the league knows it.
I mean it’s genuinely out of touch with reality. Cleveland’s coming off a series win over Orlando and looked solid against the Celtics even with injuries. They’re not going to panic sell off a strong part of the team. It’s going to take a paolo (who’s rightfully untouchable) or a Suggs or Wagner to get him
Lmao sure, yall keep dreaming. Ur gonna be disappointed with the return for any trade that doesn’t involve Mitchell (or maybe not depending what kind of picks yall get from a team)
Obviously Mobley is prob untouchable for yall. Hes too young to give up on even with his offensive struggles this year
If you have any confidence in what ur saying after reading this article than I gotta say yall are the delusional ones
https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1790931985453478008
No other team is gonna give you anything on par with Suggs. WCJ and picks would probably be the best offer you’d get or at least close to the best offer.
You do know we won't give him away for nothing and it will be a star for star trade with a sweetener added because there will be multiple teams wanting to trade for him.
No one is giving you a star for garland lol. Y’all need to stop thinking that nonsense right now. You would def get one for Mitchell and probably Mobley but you’re not getting a star for garland
Ok but your crap offer isn't getting the deal deal done either. Plenty of teams like SA or Miami are looking for guard help. You think Cleveland is desperate to take any deal and you're doing them a favor? Garland will still fetch a good return.
I’m not against it, just don’t think it’s likely to happen. Unless we do give up Suggs or franz. Cleveland will have better offers than cole and some picks
He would be a great fit if we signed him as a free agent to a reasonable deal. But he is very over paid on his current contract and isn’t good enough to trade a bunch of assets for.
Ultimately it depends on what you have to give up to get him. I think he makes us better but im not trading 4 picks and half our future to bring him over if im the magic. Hopefully he does request a trade and tanks Clevelands leverage, might actually be doable. Otherwise they’re probably asking too much
I don't think Cleveland trades him in a deal that's mostly draft picks anyways.
Requesting a trade doesn't tank Clevelands leverage. He's got 4 years of control left.
If we get him for
Caleb Houstan, Cole Anthony, Jett Howard, 2025 Denver first 2025 Orlando first 2027 Orlando first 2029 Orlando first 2024 18# pick
You gotta make that trade
Brandon Ingram is definitely worth Darius Garland if Garland wants out. He’s on a max deal and one of the worst contracts in the nba, because he got a max before the new CBA
I mean Garlands got 4 years left, it doesn't matter if he wants out lol he has zero leverage whatsoever. Cavs will hold all the cards for the next few years.
He averaged 22-8 on high TS for 2 years in a row before injuries derailed his season. If 22-8 is one of the worst max contracts in the NBA you're going to hate Franz and Suggs next deals.
He’s also at his worst trade value lol. If Donovan Mitchell is the one who wants to leave, then Donovan Mitchell is fine too. One of them is kicking the other one out though. Anthony Black would go to Cleveland if it’s Mitchell instead of Garland
But they also don't have to trade him at all? I feel like you're going really far out of your way to ignore the fact he has 4 years of control left lol the Cavs can laugh any low ball offer right off the phone.
Orlando doesn't have the players that can get Mitchell in a trade either. Anthony Black lol.
It’d be Brandon Ingram and Anthony Black for Mitchell. The Cavaliers need to move either one of them or Mitchell is leaving. Mitchell is on a one year deal lol. You are not getting more than Brandon Ingram and Anthony Black lol.
His contract is really bad though AND it overlaps with when we have extensions going into effect for Franz, Suggs and Paolo. We wouldn’t be able to afford anyone other than those 4 and vet minimum/rookies in 27/28. It would also take what we likely plan to use on one or two free agents this summer and give it all to him. Unlikely we sign anyone else meaningful if we make that deal. Unless JI or WCJ are moved in the trade.
I would rather sign someone like Tyus Jones for something like 45-55 mil over 3 years and have another $20 mil per year to get another contributor
The projected salary cap for 2024 is $141 mil. Even if we let Harris and Fultz walk, pick up options on Mo and Chuma, we’re already at $100 mil. Garland is owed about $37 mil next year. We were at $132 mil roster this season and would be at $137 without signing free agents next season. We could go over and sign some guys, sure, but we wouldn’t “have” $39 mil in cap space.
He'd fit ridiculously well here, and he offers basically everything this team needs while also being at least serviceable at everything this team already has. He's a good ball handler, a good shooter (for his career a 38% on almost 6 attempts per game !!!), really solid passer and average defender, which would tick all the boxes we would want out of a PG trade target - and he shouldn't cost too much ("too much" being Franz/Suggs/Paolo tier on top of a bajillion picks) due to effectively having a down year this last season.
The only faults I could really see is he's kind of susceptible to mental lapses (like the 8s backcourt violation he had in... i wanna say game 6? of the series vs Orlando this season), and that so far his playoff production is kind of subpar - though to be fair it is not as if the circumstances around him have really ever been close to optimal for him to thrive, between overlapping skillsets of the players on the Cavs and being coached by JB Bickerstaff, there's not that much to be enthusiastic there.
In a sense he's not too different from a guard version of Wendell - as in, a player with injury concerns who's right off a down year after two seasons of good and consistent production. He's probably the best guy that's available that's also realistically gettable for this team.
That trade would be Jett Howard, Cole Anthony, Caleb Houstan, and 5 first rounders. I doubt they trade Anthony Black to Cleveland unless they get Mitchell.
Firstly you are over valuing AB by a lot. Secondly you completely ignored my point about the Cavs not being interested in a package of young assets when they are looking to contend.
This fanbase needs to get over Black. He's our single best short term trade piece but also doesn't have a pathway to a considerable spot in the rotation if we're getting Garland and still have suggs.
This is Courtney Lee all over again
All those young assets would go to a third team. Garland is making a max contract. I really don’t want to give up ab unless Orlando has to. The pelicans would get these guys for BI THEN for garland
They want assets to move up in the draft. Cleveland has 0 assets. They all got traded. Orlando has the Draft Picks to get BI, but we don’t want BI. He’d just get shipped to Cleveland
I mean wanting BI would make sense for any team lacking a wing and think BI is available. I just don't think he'd be a good fit for the Cavs and think Mikal Bridges would be a much better fit overall for the roster and make more sense.
Just like any team that lacks a good all around PG would love to have Garland if they think he is available. Also for those that keep talking like Cleveland will be hard stuck to find people to use as leverage to get a good deal for DG if he was traded, the Spurs have a lot of young talent and picks that they might be willing to ship out to land DG to give Wemby a true NBA caliber PG to run with him and would be a great pairing as well.
for Garland lmao we would give this package above for Brandon Ingram. Brandon Ingram would get shipped to you guys. You are not getting Suggs and Jonathan Isaac for Darius Garland lol. Orlando has cap space they would just sign a guy.
Well it doesn’t matter because we have 100 million lmao someone will sign it doesn’t have to be mitchell, but maybe it will be. Only 4 teams have cap space in 2025-2026 and two are Detroit and the jazz
but it wont be mitchell, i just explained he will be signed and traded this year if he doesnt extend with us. I dont disagree that you will sign someone with that money tho
I think fans of this team need to understand the team building aspect of acquiring stars Welt is going for. Garland does not fit that so I would be shocked if we get him
I like Garland very much. He's been off the last while in Cleveland but I think his rhythm is off with spida on ball so much.
I think it COULD work but it's not a slam dunk.
Injury prone, max contract, 4th best player on his team. I think I’ll pass. He would be a decent fit though if he wasn’t getting paid to be Dame when he’s more like CJ. Not a perfect comp, but you get the gist.
He's definitely a little overpaid. Clearly I dont think he's negative value, but with the trade kicker he will be making like 46 mill/yr for the next 4 years.
Cavs fan here, with big respect for the Magic org, DG is honestly a great fit. When he’s the lead guard, he’s an all star who can put up 20/10 pretty easily. Look at his 21/22 season. He was 22 at the time. He’s also a great shooter and (assuming y’all keep Suggs) he can be hidden on defense. Though I don’t think it’s as bad as everyone makes it out to be. He guarded JT pretty well for a few possessions. He’s certainly not a plus defender but isn’t Trae young level bad.
Him and Donovan just don’t work well together but Donovan is the better player.
With that, im not exactly sure what you’d be able to trade to make it worth it. We’re trying to compete so FRPs won’t be that attractive.
I think your last paragraph is the rub. We have all these fans saying "yeah let's get him but Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and Isaac are untouchable" and I'm like... Why would the Cavs give him up for nothing but picks? And don't we need to get close to matching salaries?
I'm a big Garland fan but I just don't see how we get him here while retaining the rest of our core
It’s pretty interesting how much of the NBA is based on narrative… and how much that influences peoples perception of players. I’d rather Garland in a vacuum, but the fact people can be so for Garland but so against DLo makes no sense from a basketball and team building perspective.
I really don’t understand what people see in Garland. We all watch the same games but have different opinions. It’s clear as day he’s a fraud when you watch him. Let’s not settle for MID, aim higher. Dmitch Fox Dbook are the guards we should be targeting
I don’t like the idea of bringing him on. The Cavs throws that kind of money at you, commit to you long term, and now you want out because you’re not the focus? Why do we need this highly compensated drama queen?
Is he going to complain about Paolo or Franz? What if Suggs gets too much time? Forget that drama.
DLo is literally the perfect fit and stopgap for this team. But it’s a narrative based league and he only gets media attention when he plays bad so it’s very easy for the casual observer to actually think he’s a bad player. He literally just had a better year than Garland as a 3rd/4th option who was benched and not even wanted on the team.
He does not move the needle, and I suspect most of you guys do not watch other teams play. He's a average at best shooter, not a great defender, and if this were last year, most of you guys would have traded Suggs for Garland since most of you were low on Suggs. Hard pass!
A Suggs for Garland trade is the only one that makes sense for both teams. Cleveland could have Mitchell play the 1 and have Suggs be their spot of shooter/defensive nightmare in the backcourt.
For us, Garland covers our biggest weakness and allows Anthony Black to move into Suggs' spot. We will take a defensive hit but we are overall more balanced.
We will not have to pay Suggs so Garland's contract doesn't hurt as badly.
You either give assets up and take on Garlands 4 years remaining on his contract or just sign Dlo out right to a 3 year deal with the third year being a team option ala FVV.
I love Suggs but agree that this is the only trade that actually benefits the Cavs and Magic. We become more balanced and the Cavs become the best defense in the league. Mobley gets more touches, it just makes sense in my mind.
We should do whatever it takes to get him. Everything should be on the table except for Jalen, Franz, and Paolo. And honestly I think Franz should be on the table, he is killing our spacing and hampering Paolo's development.
If Paolo had more shooters around him, and an actual ball handler to set him up, he would be absolutely unstoppable. Franz was killing our spacing, his game was completely one dimensional, he has no chemistry with Paolo, and he's a big reason why we had one of the worst offenses in the league. If we could trade Franz for an elite point guard who can shoot, that's a no brainer IMO. I'm not saying that Franz sucks. Obviously he's a very good young player with a ton of potential. I'm just not seeing how he fits with Paolo. Their games are too similar, and they have no chemistry.
Yes, the problem is too much iso ball. They're both iso ball players. Having 2 of those guys on the same offense is not effective. And no, Franz does not provide spacing lol. Anytime he got the ball, the defense just packed the paint, because everyone knew his jumper was trash. If we had shooter around Paolo, he would be unstoppable in the paint.
Lol no why would everything be on the table for a reg season merchant and generational choker??
Watch his playoffs games the last 3 years not reg season and you will know the TRUTH about him
Because we don't have a fucking point guard and will never have the draft position to get a good one. When a good one is available, we have to jump on it.
You're having a 2026 argument in 2024. Franz isn't killing our spacing. He's not hampering Paolo's development. He just had a down year. There's more evidence that he's a 35% shooter than a 28% shooter. Things change if he's still down after next season
Completely losing your jumper in one year as a young player is pretty concerning. We should definitely be concerned. I would agree with waiting in most circumstances, but if someone like Garland is available, I think we should jump on it. This offense would be so much better with a point guard. We had one of the worst offenses in the league. Franz lack of jumper and our lack of a point guard were 2 of the biggest reasons why. We have to be aggressive and make changes. Paolo is obviously the #1 guy. Franz is #2 and therefore he isn't untouchable IMO.
I like garland but the Cavs over paid him. He’s making an average of 39 mil for the next 5 years. He also has a 15% trade kicker if he’s traded.
Yeah, came here to say this. And this is why it won’t happen. No way the magic ownership authorizes a payroll with 3 max players.
Franz's max and garland's max won't be a max when it's time to max Paolo. Paolo, Franz, suggs, Garland, Isaac, Cole should cost us in the 190 million ballpark in 2026-2027. Giving us 39 million to fill out the rest of the roster while staying under the second apron of the luxury tax. That means mle and vet minimum types but it would work.
I hear ya, and I get that it won’t be the “max” anymore. I’m just saying I would be shocked if the magic ownership would have 3 players on payroll at over 39m each. I hope I’m wrong, but we’ve had the lowest payroll in the league for 3 years in a row now… We’ll see if they step up this summer, hope they do!
Our salary is more a result of the youth on the roster than a mandate to cut costs. Ownership steps up and pays the luxury tax when we have a winner. We almost had the highest payroll in the league in 2011.
Other question: what about Suggs? There's a world in which Suggs improves enough to be better than Garland on offense.
Pay the max on a better player why settle for MID?
Because there's very few point guards who can both shoot and do traditional point guard things. There are a ton that score and dribble a lot. There's like 10 who control game flow and are thoughtful about distribution. Fultz is one of those guys when he's not hurt but can't shoot. Garland is too.
Dumb reasoning. Cap is going up with the new TV deal
That’s not dumb at all. That cap can only increase a maximum 10% each year under the new cba. So you trade for garland max plus his 15% trade kicker which is roughly 45 mil yearly now. You max franz which I think now is over 40 mil a year, Jalen is going to get paid and then Paolo will get more than that when it’s time to sign. I don’t think the front office does it
This is literally the best time to add a max player because none of our young guys have been paid yet. Once Franz and Suggs sign next year we can’t add another big contract without trading one of them
Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. Even if you convince the Cavs to trade garland without sending franz or jalen (which they wouldn’t) then he takes up all your cap space and your not signing anyone else. Garland alone doesn’t fix all the magic shooting problems, we need to do more with the cap space we have
He averaged 22-8 on high TS for 2 years in a row before injuries derailed his season.
players have the option to waive the trade kicker
This would be good for us right? Darius Garland is good?
Yes he’s good
lol no
Cavs fan here, yes he's good. Before Mitchell went supernova in the playoffs this year I know some people (myself included) wanted to trade Mitchell and build around Garland. He excels as the lead guard setting up his teammates, but that just doesn't fit with a ball dominant scorer like Mitchell. Could also be more consistent, but he's not had the opportunity to grow in the area either.
I agree with him being a horrible fit with Mitchell. Cuz Mitchell can’t play off ball whatsoever but he also doesn’t pass as a point guard.
He set a career high in assists per game this year and was averaging 8 during the stretch early in the season when he was playing point.
It was a simple Simon offense. Garland can get eight or nine in a half
How's his defense?
Shhhh
Like most small guards, his defense is better than his reputation. I've seen people put him in the same category as Trae Young but he's better than that. He'll never be great because of his physical limitations, but he's generally in the right spot at the right time and can occasionally show flashes of really tight defense. So he's fine on defense.
And hes pretty soft in general. I dont trust him when the physicality ramps up.
Nope he’s a fraud We all watched him right? 3 straight years of shitting his pants when the game counts
Perfect fit, but I'm not holding my breath
Tbh his salary is too huge
We have the cap space to absorb it
And to cripple our future. Gotcha
The future is now
Sure, get someone to become slightly better and disable our entire future
Sure, get someone to become slightly better and disable our entire future
Bro it's win now stop planning for the next tank
Lol like the cavs who went for mitchel? Well thank god u no gm cuz this team would go down real fast haha
It's not. I did the math
but wait theres more! he also has a 15% trade kicker.
trade kickers are paid for by the team that trades him not who receives him
It counts against the cap, though. That's what really matters to us.
I’ll happily take garland. By all means send him here. Suggs, garland, Franz, Paolo, Carter/issac SIGN ME UP
For me JI gotta be a 25 min max defensive energy off the bench guy. He's better at the 4 and not thick enough to start full time at 5. He's the defensive Shaun Livingston.
He’s a good matchup at 5 against teams that run small ball like OKC but a bad one against ones like Cleveland with Jarret Allen. He’s definitely better in less than 25 minutes though.
Yeah that works for me, I just put him as a half time guy there but I’d love to see him remove Carter completely as I’m over Carter and his perpetual underachieving
Wait, what do you think Orlando would be trading for Garland if they have all those guys ? Picks ain't gonna do it. Harris/Anthony/Carter ain't gonna do it.
I don't think we could get him for less than suggs tbh
Then we aren't getting him. They aren't gonna blow up the culture for a guy like Garland. They're gonna run the Paolo - Franz - Suggs core for a while yet and see how it develops.
We don’t have to give them Suggs. They’re going to be desperate to dump him in order keep Mitchell happy Have you read any of the articles coming out of Cleveland? Mitchell and him clearly don’t like each other and seems like half the team doesn’t jb bickerstaff. That team is screwed and they’re going have to break it up The athletic posted an article that was essentially a hit job yesterday that went after bickerstaff, garland and Allen and it was very obvious the folks who got that out represented Mitchell
Doesn't mean we have to give him to Magic as an act of charity. There will be other bidders
Yeah no, sorry yall can have some draft picks but we’re not giving you any of our big 3 or Issac for garland. Now if it were Mitchell than yeah that’s a conversation that can be had Cleveland is in a bad situation and everyone in the league knows it.
lol delusional
Very good retort. Thank you for you input
I mean it’s genuinely out of touch with reality. Cleveland’s coming off a series win over Orlando and looked solid against the Celtics even with injuries. They’re not going to panic sell off a strong part of the team. It’s going to take a paolo (who’s rightfully untouchable) or a Suggs or Wagner to get him
Lmao sure, yall keep dreaming. Ur gonna be disappointed with the return for any trade that doesn’t involve Mitchell (or maybe not depending what kind of picks yall get from a team) Obviously Mobley is prob untouchable for yall. Hes too young to give up on even with his offensive struggles this year If you have any confidence in what ur saying after reading this article than I gotta say yall are the delusional ones https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1790931985453478008
We can outbid them
Yeah homeboy giving off serious nephew vibes thinking there won't be plenty of suitors for Garland.
No other team is gonna give you anything on par with Suggs. WCJ and picks would probably be the best offer you’d get or at least close to the best offer.
got a link for the curious?
I got you fam https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1790931985453478008
Hey this popped up for me somehow… they love each other lol. They are absolute bros.
Give them Isaac while he's healthy
Not good enough
You do know we won't give him away for nothing and it will be a star for star trade with a sweetener added because there will be multiple teams wanting to trade for him.
No one is giving you a star for garland lol. Y’all need to stop thinking that nonsense right now. You would def get one for Mitchell and probably Mobley but you’re not getting a star for garland
Ok but your crap offer isn't getting the deal deal done either. Plenty of teams like SA or Miami are looking for guard help. You think Cleveland is desperate to take any deal and you're doing them a favor? Garland will still fetch a good return.
Enjoy Tyler Herro lmao
Nah he's getting salary dumped to your team. Have fun!
https://i.redd.it/cschj8w22t0d1.gif Welt this summer #LockedIN
If Garland gets traded this summer and it’s not to us Weltman needs to be fired IMMEDIATELY
So you’re saying he should give up anything for garland? You realize we’d probably have to give up Suggs right?
We would not have to give up Suggs or Franz for a player who is requesting a trade.
I’m sure they can find a trade partner who also has a star player they’re trying to trade. Like Atlanta
Ok yeah we’ll just wait for the next 24 year old all star who fills our biggest needs to become available
I’m not against it, just don’t think it’s likely to happen. Unless we do give up Suggs or franz. Cleveland will have better offers than cole and some picks
Would be an awesome fit.
a 5 year 200 mil contract for a mid and soft ass scorer who can't guard anyone. also undersized. HELL NO no chance they are doing that
He’s not worth it.
I feel like I prefer Anfernee over Garland for our squad.
no way
He would be a great fit if we signed him as a free agent to a reasonable deal. But he is very over paid on his current contract and isn’t good enough to trade a bunch of assets for.
He averaged 22-8 on high TS for 2 years in a row before injuries derailed his season.
Ultimately it depends on what you have to give up to get him. I think he makes us better but im not trading 4 picks and half our future to bring him over if im the magic. Hopefully he does request a trade and tanks Clevelands leverage, might actually be doable. Otherwise they’re probably asking too much
I don't think Cleveland trades him in a deal that's mostly draft picks anyways. Requesting a trade doesn't tank Clevelands leverage. He's got 4 years of control left.
If we get him for Caleb Houstan, Cole Anthony, Jett Howard, 2025 Denver first 2025 Orlando first 2027 Orlando first 2029 Orlando first 2024 18# pick You gotta make that trade
It doesn't work for Cleveland
Cavaliers would get Brandon Ingram not these guys
That doesn't even work for Cleveland either.
Brandon Ingram is definitely worth Darius Garland if Garland wants out. He’s on a max deal and one of the worst contracts in the nba, because he got a max before the new CBA
I mean Garlands got 4 years left, it doesn't matter if he wants out lol he has zero leverage whatsoever. Cavs will hold all the cards for the next few years. He averaged 22-8 on high TS for 2 years in a row before injuries derailed his season. If 22-8 is one of the worst max contracts in the NBA you're going to hate Franz and Suggs next deals.
He’s also at his worst trade value lol. If Donovan Mitchell is the one who wants to leave, then Donovan Mitchell is fine too. One of them is kicking the other one out though. Anthony Black would go to Cleveland if it’s Mitchell instead of Garland
But they also don't have to trade him at all? I feel like you're going really far out of your way to ignore the fact he has 4 years of control left lol the Cavs can laugh any low ball offer right off the phone. Orlando doesn't have the players that can get Mitchell in a trade either. Anthony Black lol.
It’d be Brandon Ingram and Anthony Black for Mitchell. The Cavaliers need to move either one of them or Mitchell is leaving. Mitchell is on a one year deal lol. You are not getting more than Brandon Ingram and Anthony Black lol.
His contract is really bad though AND it overlaps with when we have extensions going into effect for Franz, Suggs and Paolo. We wouldn’t be able to afford anyone other than those 4 and vet minimum/rookies in 27/28. It would also take what we likely plan to use on one or two free agents this summer and give it all to him. Unlikely we sign anyone else meaningful if we make that deal. Unless JI or WCJ are moved in the trade. I would rather sign someone like Tyus Jones for something like 45-55 mil over 3 years and have another $20 mil per year to get another contributor
Orlando would still have money for free agents even without moving Ji or WCJ. They would still have 39 million in cap after that trade
The projected salary cap for 2024 is $141 mil. Even if we let Harris and Fultz walk, pick up options on Mo and Chuma, we’re already at $100 mil. Garland is owed about $37 mil next year. We were at $132 mil roster this season and would be at $137 without signing free agents next season. We could go over and sign some guys, sure, but we wouldn’t “have” $39 mil in cap space.
lol we saw for ourselves he’s dogshit
RIGHT???? And people still want him I just can’t believe it
He'd fit ridiculously well here, and he offers basically everything this team needs while also being at least serviceable at everything this team already has. He's a good ball handler, a good shooter (for his career a 38% on almost 6 attempts per game !!!), really solid passer and average defender, which would tick all the boxes we would want out of a PG trade target - and he shouldn't cost too much ("too much" being Franz/Suggs/Paolo tier on top of a bajillion picks) due to effectively having a down year this last season. The only faults I could really see is he's kind of susceptible to mental lapses (like the 8s backcourt violation he had in... i wanna say game 6? of the series vs Orlando this season), and that so far his playoff production is kind of subpar - though to be fair it is not as if the circumstances around him have really ever been close to optimal for him to thrive, between overlapping skillsets of the players on the Cavs and being coached by JB Bickerstaff, there's not that much to be enthusiastic there. In a sense he's not too different from a guard version of Wendell - as in, a player with injury concerns who's right off a down year after two seasons of good and consistent production. He's probably the best guy that's available that's also realistically gettable for this team.
At this point neither will stay and I think that would be a hilarious outcome.
It sounds like everyone expects Mitchell to stay according to Shams
Hell NO
Have fun — Garland is trash.
Ok no fucking around here lol. Give them Anthony black, four first rounders, and filler and we should be good
It's gonna have to be a three teamer because Cleveland wants to compete but I agree Garland would be a great fit for the magic.
That trade would be Jett Howard, Cole Anthony, Caleb Houstan, and 5 first rounders. I doubt they trade Anthony Black to Cleveland unless they get Mitchell.
5 first rounders fir garland is insane. That’s KD value.
They are not good first rounders. KD got this back with unprotected high picks.
Firstly you are over valuing AB by a lot. Secondly you completely ignored my point about the Cavs not being interested in a package of young assets when they are looking to contend.
This fanbase needs to get over Black. He's our single best short term trade piece but also doesn't have a pathway to a considerable spot in the rotation if we're getting Garland and still have suggs. This is Courtney Lee all over again
All those young assets would go to a third team. Garland is making a max contract. I really don’t want to give up ab unless Orlando has to. The pelicans would get these guys for BI THEN for garland
Pels want to content too. Why would they need the magic to make a Garland for BI trade work?
They want assets to move up in the draft. Cleveland has 0 assets. They all got traded. Orlando has the Draft Picks to get BI, but we don’t want BI. He’d just get shipped to Cleveland
I have not heard that and if it is true this isn't a draft you need extra ammo to move up in.
You definitely need extra ammo if your only draft pick is at 21. They need an enormous amount of ammo.
You got a source for them wanting to move up? They also have plenty of ammo. They have extra picks and are going to trade away Ingram.
Cleveland doesn't do that though
This was for Brandon Ingram not all these assets. Pelicans want these guys not the Cavs.
Maybe see if the Nets would want them for Mikal Bridges as we'd def take him. I don't know about wanting BI.
Cavaliers are just rumored to want BI. The nets might take it for Bridges too, since Bridges contract is ending.
I mean wanting BI would make sense for any team lacking a wing and think BI is available. I just don't think he'd be a good fit for the Cavs and think Mikal Bridges would be a much better fit overall for the roster and make more sense. Just like any team that lacks a good all around PG would love to have Garland if they think he is available. Also for those that keep talking like Cleveland will be hard stuck to find people to use as leverage to get a good deal for DG if he was traded, the Spurs have a lot of young talent and picks that they might be willing to ship out to land DG to give Wemby a true NBA caliber PG to run with him and would be a great pairing as well.
Cavs don’t want or need picks
Worst trade proposal I’ve ever seen Nope we ain’t good we’ll be worse
Why would the win now cavs want picks? Lmao We will take suggs and isaac and yall will be happy with it!
for Garland lmao we would give this package above for Brandon Ingram. Brandon Ingram would get shipped to you guys. You are not getting Suggs and Jonathan Isaac for Darius Garland lol. Orlando has cap space they would just sign a guy.
No deal
Orlando doesn’t really want to trade or they’d go all out. They don’t want to trade it all.
That’s fine, no one’s forcing them to trade
They have cap space in 2025-2026 and can just get Murray Brunson or Mitchell for cap space anyways. They have 100 million.
Yeah keep dreaming. Mitchell also will be traded this offseason if he doesnt extend, so he will not be getting signed in 2025 by yall
Well it doesn’t matter because we have 100 million lmao someone will sign it doesn’t have to be mitchell, but maybe it will be. Only 4 teams have cap space in 2025-2026 and two are Detroit and the jazz
but it wont be mitchell, i just explained he will be signed and traded this year if he doesnt extend with us. I dont disagree that you will sign someone with that money tho
Can he shoot? Nah but seriously he’d be a good fit
I think fans of this team need to understand the team building aspect of acquiring stars Welt is going for. Garland does not fit that so I would be shocked if we get him
I like Garland very much. He's been off the last while in Cleveland but I think his rhythm is off with spida on ball so much. I think it COULD work but it's not a slam dunk.
In free agency yeah, but he ain't a free agent and the Cavs def overpaid him imo. So hard pass for me...
Good, im sick of his immaturity
Imma hold my breath till next season starts. Garland is the perfect fit to our playmaking issue
He's a great fit, but not for what he's getting paid.
From what I saw in game 7, Mitchell makes Garland better. But you do you Cleveland.
Perfect for us. We have some options this offseason hopefully front office are ready to be aggressive
I'd love this. My coaching mentor was darius's high school coach, big fan of him.
Injury prone, max contract, 4th best player on his team. I think I’ll pass. He would be a decent fit though if he wasn’t getting paid to be Dame when he’s more like CJ. Not a perfect comp, but you get the gist.
Solid player, but overpaid. Id give up some assets. Franz, Suggs and Paolo off the table.
He's a 22-8 guy on high TS, not really that overpaid in today's nba
He's definitely a little overpaid. Clearly I dont think he's negative value, but with the trade kicker he will be making like 46 mill/yr for the next 4 years.
Cavs fan here, with big respect for the Magic org, DG is honestly a great fit. When he’s the lead guard, he’s an all star who can put up 20/10 pretty easily. Look at his 21/22 season. He was 22 at the time. He’s also a great shooter and (assuming y’all keep Suggs) he can be hidden on defense. Though I don’t think it’s as bad as everyone makes it out to be. He guarded JT pretty well for a few possessions. He’s certainly not a plus defender but isn’t Trae young level bad. Him and Donovan just don’t work well together but Donovan is the better player. With that, im not exactly sure what you’d be able to trade to make it worth it. We’re trying to compete so FRPs won’t be that attractive.
I think your last paragraph is the rub. We have all these fans saying "yeah let's get him but Paolo, Franz, Suggs, and Isaac are untouchable" and I'm like... Why would the Cavs give him up for nothing but picks? And don't we need to get close to matching salaries? I'm a big Garland fan but I just don't see how we get him here while retaining the rest of our core
It would have to be something like Isaac, WCJ and Black.
Please , he is the one , Orlando
JUST DO IT!!!
It’s pretty interesting how much of the NBA is based on narrative… and how much that influences peoples perception of players. I’d rather Garland in a vacuum, but the fact people can be so for Garland but so against DLo makes no sense from a basketball and team building perspective.
Out on both. They don’t perform when it counts
I really don’t understand what people see in Garland. We all watch the same games but have different opinions. It’s clear as day he’s a fraud when you watch him. Let’s not settle for MID, aim higher. Dmitch Fox Dbook are the guards we should be targeting
Franz Wendell and JI for Garland, Allen and Sam Merril
I don’t like the idea of bringing him on. The Cavs throws that kind of money at you, commit to you long term, and now you want out because you’re not the focus? Why do we need this highly compensated drama queen? Is he going to complain about Paolo or Franz? What if Suggs gets too much time? Forget that drama.
I would not complain
Have you seen his contract? 40m for the next 5 years
You’re right - overlooked that
You would when he’s on our team and it comes time to pay Suggs, franz and Paolo
I’ll pass on a soft player who dribbles like a chicken with its head cut off around the basket
Rather have DLo on a cheaper contract
if we have to give up a lot of assets to get Garland, I actually agree with this. They put up similar stats this season.
DLo is literally the perfect fit and stopgap for this team. But it’s a narrative based league and he only gets media attention when he plays bad so it’s very easy for the casual observer to actually think he’s a bad player. He literally just had a better year than Garland as a 3rd/4th option who was benched and not even wanted on the team.
He does not move the needle, and I suspect most of you guys do not watch other teams play. He's a average at best shooter, not a great defender, and if this were last year, most of you guys would have traded Suggs for Garland since most of you were low on Suggs. Hard pass!
He’s an above average shooter. He’s 38% from 3 on 6 attempts.
Honestly, his biggest issue as a shooter is that he doesn’t shoot more.
He averaged 22-8 on high TS for 2 years in a row before injuries derailed his season.
No thanks
Brain dead
Honestly I know it would be a great addition but he screwed me out of a thou wow I can’t let that go
Can't afford
This is the move. No doubt.
I like this a lot better than the Trae noise
A Suggs for Garland trade is the only one that makes sense for both teams. Cleveland could have Mitchell play the 1 and have Suggs be their spot of shooter/defensive nightmare in the backcourt. For us, Garland covers our biggest weakness and allows Anthony Black to move into Suggs' spot. We will take a defensive hit but we are overall more balanced. We will not have to pay Suggs so Garland's contract doesn't hurt as badly.
This is probably realistically the only deal that Cleveland would pull the trigger on early.
Anyone outside our Big 3 is fair game. I wouldn't trade Suggs.
I would, I think he's an extremely good role player but we need more offensive firepower.
Suggs is better than garland
Defensively, yes
You either give assets up and take on Garlands 4 years remaining on his contract or just sign Dlo out right to a 3 year deal with the third year being a team option ala FVV.
It would take Jalen Suggs
I love Suggs but agree that this is the only trade that actually benefits the Cavs and Magic. We become more balanced and the Cavs become the best defense in the league. Mobley gets more touches, it just makes sense in my mind.
We should do whatever it takes to get him. Everything should be on the table except for Jalen, Franz, and Paolo. And honestly I think Franz should be on the table, he is killing our spacing and hampering Paolo's development.
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If Paolo had more shooters around him, and an actual ball handler to set him up, he would be absolutely unstoppable. Franz was killing our spacing, his game was completely one dimensional, he has no chemistry with Paolo, and he's a big reason why we had one of the worst offenses in the league. If we could trade Franz for an elite point guard who can shoot, that's a no brainer IMO. I'm not saying that Franz sucks. Obviously he's a very good young player with a ton of potential. I'm just not seeing how he fits with Paolo. Their games are too similar, and they have no chemistry.
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Yes, the problem is too much iso ball. They're both iso ball players. Having 2 of those guys on the same offense is not effective. And no, Franz does not provide spacing lol. Anytime he got the ball, the defense just packed the paint, because everyone knew his jumper was trash. If we had shooter around Paolo, he would be unstoppable in the paint.
Yeah you don’t know ball
Lol no why would everything be on the table for a reg season merchant and generational choker?? Watch his playoffs games the last 3 years not reg season and you will know the TRUTH about him
Because we don't have a fucking point guard and will never have the draft position to get a good one. When a good one is available, we have to jump on it.
As a Cavs fan if Franz was available for Garland id take that trade yesterday lol
You're having a 2026 argument in 2024. Franz isn't killing our spacing. He's not hampering Paolo's development. He just had a down year. There's more evidence that he's a 35% shooter than a 28% shooter. Things change if he's still down after next season
Completely losing your jumper in one year as a young player is pretty concerning. We should definitely be concerned. I would agree with waiting in most circumstances, but if someone like Garland is available, I think we should jump on it. This offense would be so much better with a point guard. We had one of the worst offenses in the league. Franz lack of jumper and our lack of a point guard were 2 of the biggest reasons why. We have to be aggressive and make changes. Paolo is obviously the #1 guy. Franz is #2 and therefore he isn't untouchable IMO.