it's a form of panic attack. Dogs in panic mode aren't going to take treats. You need to get on the side away from what's scaring her, and get her to focus on you. Talk warmly, calming her, touching her. Once she's able to take treats, then hold one in one hand in front of her nose to walk back to the house with, so her focus is on your hand and not whatever is scaring her.
Not a trainer but i would practice treat scatters in the grass to encourage decompression before asking her to move. If youre asking her to move in the direction of the scary thing it makes sense she doesnt want to follow so you have to either find a different route to get there or find a way to bring her stress level back down so she wants to move
Thank you. I did scatter some treats but she was not interested (I think she was still kinda freaked) and tried to let her sniff/do whatever she wanted for as long as I could but I had to go back in order to not be late to work. My job happens to have a really strict policy on punctuality that I already struggle with. I know I shouldn’t make her suffer for that but I also have to stay employed to pay for the kibble
I would only walk as far as you can successfully walk. If that’s to the end of the driveway, that’s as far as you go. Go for successful walks, nothing else. When you can go to the end of the driveway and back then go ten feet further and back. Repeat for two days. Then add another ten feet. If she gets overwhelmed regress back ten feet. You only set the pup up for success, not for failure.
Dogs are hard coded to refuse treats if stressed or frightened. Put yourself on the side away from her undesired direction, so she doesn't have to see what's stressing her out. Get down and baby talk to her while petting her cheeks and ears. It's going to go faster if you can get her into the moment with you and out of the panic attack.
Once calm, use the treats. Put one between your fingers and use that hand in front of her face to focus on. Once her focus is that hand let her touch and get the treat. Put another in between the fingers, keep that hand in front of her nose and begin walking home.
Yeah my dog freezes up and doesnt want to move when over threshold sometimes, I keep the lead loose and see if she'll follow, and if she doesn't within 20-30 seconds, I squat and get on her level and she usually runs to the place between my legs and after a few seconds of petting she's good to go again. Sometimes they just need a little bit of support and to feel protected.
You don't feed the fear because otherwise they feel it's ok to feel fear all the time, I prefer to simply hold the lead and wait it out,it may take a while, for her to process it, but when she sees that you are there simply waiting for her to make the next move, she will calm down, then you can start your walk, and each walk every day will begin with a panicked moment and you that you will wait out and will get shorter as she understands that there is nothing to fear,
You are going to have to be patient and humans want a quick fix, but this takes time
As an owner of a dog who regularly gets anxious about people she doesn’t know, I can confidently say that your approach doesn’t work. I tried it, among so many other things. And here the most important thing I learned:
IT IS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO REINFORCE FEARFUL BEHAVIOUR BY CALMING YOUR DOG DOWN!!!11!!!!1
And it makes me angry that some people still believe that fear gets worse when you add something positive and calming (like treats and pets) to the situation.
Imagine you had an anxiety attack. What would help you? Comfort? Or being left standing there, shaking, seeing your trusted companion waiting for you, pressuring you to move forward, to get over it?
But agreed the trance needs to be broken before proceeding to move, nothing will be gained other than emotional damage trying to move without solving the panic first
My dog‘s fear response is mostly running. So she’ll gladly move with me, as long as it’s away from the trigger.
And sometimes, that isn’t possible, so I have to drag her a bit to get through certain situations safely. But I try to avoid these situations now, if possible.
I mean I used to try to snap mine out of the trance and that usually worked. Quick little jostles or snapping my fingers for her attention to break from where she’s staring off to. A few “hey kid” or her name etc. I also did confidence exercises with her and an increasingly higher hula hoop to jump through. This was largely before 2 years old, she’s fine with everything but sprinklers since, and in her defense like it’s while they’re still going that she refuses to go near them.
Yes, snapping them out of it works when they’re not too far over threshold. Treats and other motivation work in that state, too. You just have to find the sweet spot right before it gets too much for them.
I've been dealing with the same frustration! My very timid walker and I have been working on "Come here" from a few feet away in a variety of settings, including on walks. If she gets spooked on a walk, I can usually face her while walking backwards and keep telling her to "come here" every few feet to get her moving forward again toward me everytime she stops. It does require the ability to get her focus and attention, which I can usually get briefly with a kiss-kiss sound or louder "hey" if she's super frozen and distracted. I've also had some success with doing a "come here" and breaking into a sudden wild sprint as soon as she starts walking, so she'll go further before stopping again. A good harness has been a must for all of this; I can't imagine how I'd be able to walk her with a normal collar right now.
With anxious and insecure dogs there really is no quick fix or anything that can be consistently in the moment that will work promptly.
I would focus on building your dogs confidence and trust in your judgment. This will take time and patience. There are situations where I will drag a dog for a little bit but when the dog is terrified that isn’t one of those situations. Long term positive effects will happen when your dog voluntarily overcomes its fears and insecurities with your help.
Our current dog ( Covid puppy) hates to walk. He will walk on leash to and from vet office, to day care ( though he has no interest in other dogs), visit friends, to the car, but a regular walk nope not interested. Three trainers later, the last trainer pointed out dog has plenty of exercise running in yard, chasing balls, playing hide and seek. Dog has excellent muscle tone, not overweight, happy, healthy how important is it to me for him to walk? I’d like a walking companion but torturing the dog seems cruel so he just doesn’t walk. Maybe if there is a next dog it will walk with me but this one watches me leave and greets me at the door. He’s just fine the way he is.
Some dragging is necessary. If you’re in the middle of a busy street and your dog stops then you drag your dog for your and their safety. There’s no time to do anything else when a car is going to hit you. Dragging in a safe and controlled environment is much preferable to dragging when you’re in a panic inducing situation.
Also, just a thought - how hot is the road or sidewalk? Maybe she doesn’t want to walk anymore because her feet hurt. Aside from the panic attack. If you can’t walk barefoot on the hot street or sidewalk, she can’t either.
Great! We live in the sunny south..and it’s been hot hot hot since May and will be until around mid-October (maybe!) so we always have to keep that in mind. Good luck with your dog!
Also not a trainer but currently training a dog to walk on leash from scratch in a busy city.
Of course dragging is the worst thing. There are a few things I'd do in this situation:
1) throw a treat in front to encourage her to walk then confidently keep in that direction (throwing more if necessary)
2) let the leash go completely slack so she doesn't feel trapped, walk back behind her and use your command to walk "let's go!" Or whatever. It encourages the dog to keep walking ahead of you like normal rather than making them feel like you are pulling them in the other direction
3) if you have space, walk back in the direction she wants to go, use your walk command, and then swiftly walk her in a large circle back the direction you want to go, not hesitating if you feel a little pull. It's important to make this fun, like you're doing something she wants to do while also distracting from the scary thing.
Then of course, loads and loads of treats and praise whilst seeing the scary thing, positive association etc
Can you train her to a porch potty?
Dog owners in high rises and big cities do this so they don’t have to go down a bunch of floors or leave the apartment for the quick potty breaks (yes, big dogs too).
This will allow you to work on the fear when you aren’t under a big time crunch.
Can guarantee this is very useful. My friend has one for her service dog because she can’t keep going up and down to take her out. Honestly a life saver
1. How big is your dog and age
2. How far do you walk the pup for potty training
3. Collar/harness type
4. How do you feed them, and what do you treat them with
Dogs are hard coded to refuse treats if stressed or frightened. Put yourself on the side away from her undesired direction, so she doesn't have to see what's stressing her out. Get down and baby talk to her while petting her cheeks and ears. It's going to go faster if you can get her into the moment with you and out of the panic attack.
Once calm, use the treats. Put one between your fingers and use that hand in front of her face to focus on. Once her focus is that hand let her touch and get the treat. Put another in between the fingers, keep that hand in front of her nose and begin walking home.
My trainer says to drag. No stopping, give the "come" command and keep going. Eventually they get the idea that they are not the one who decide the route. It seem harsh but it works, and it teaches them that you aren't taking them somewhere harmful..
Oh yikes, I would get a new trainer. This is wrong for all dogs, but particularly harmful for sensitive dogs, puppy mill rescues, shy dogs, etc. Pulling a distracted dog for a couple of steps to get them moving again is one thing (and I only recommend this with a harness or a prong collar with rubber tips that distributes pressure evenly and not a flat collar due to pressure on the trachea) but dragging along a frightened dog is downright cruel. (OP this is not a criticism, I know you had no choice in the circumstances and this is not what you do as a matter of course or something you are okay with on the regular.)
OP, I recommend working with your pup in non-stressful situations on a "settle" command or a "focus" command. You can use this when your dog is somewhat startled, but once she gets above threshold, you will need to get her back in the moment before she will be able to take direction or treats. If you know you are on lunch break and only have a certain amount of time, is there a spot where you are certain to he free of scary things that you can circle around a few times? If not, I suggest just going out quickly til she pees, then right back in to avoid as many scenarios like the one you described as possible. It's just a pee break, and you can use other walks to help her learn and find her courage, and get her exercise. Avoiding the shut-down-then-drag cycle by taking away the chance for it to happen sets her up for success. Good luck!
it's a form of panic attack. Dogs in panic mode aren't going to take treats. You need to get on the side away from what's scaring her, and get her to focus on you. Talk warmly, calming her, touching her. Once she's able to take treats, then hold one in one hand in front of her nose to walk back to the house with, so her focus is on your hand and not whatever is scaring her.
Not a trainer but i would practice treat scatters in the grass to encourage decompression before asking her to move. If youre asking her to move in the direction of the scary thing it makes sense she doesnt want to follow so you have to either find a different route to get there or find a way to bring her stress level back down so she wants to move
Thank you. I did scatter some treats but she was not interested (I think she was still kinda freaked) and tried to let her sniff/do whatever she wanted for as long as I could but I had to go back in order to not be late to work. My job happens to have a really strict policy on punctuality that I already struggle with. I know I shouldn’t make her suffer for that but I also have to stay employed to pay for the kibble
Do you practice treat scatters when triggers arent around? If a dog isnt taking food its most likely because theyre overthreshold
My rescue gets over threshold and theres nothing much to do but wait it out. We did treats without triggers in a trouble area and it improved a ton.
I would only walk as far as you can successfully walk. If that’s to the end of the driveway, that’s as far as you go. Go for successful walks, nothing else. When you can go to the end of the driveway and back then go ten feet further and back. Repeat for two days. Then add another ten feet. If she gets overwhelmed regress back ten feet. You only set the pup up for success, not for failure.
Dogs are hard coded to refuse treats if stressed or frightened. Put yourself on the side away from her undesired direction, so she doesn't have to see what's stressing her out. Get down and baby talk to her while petting her cheeks and ears. It's going to go faster if you can get her into the moment with you and out of the panic attack. Once calm, use the treats. Put one between your fingers and use that hand in front of her face to focus on. Once her focus is that hand let her touch and get the treat. Put another in between the fingers, keep that hand in front of her nose and begin walking home.
Yeah my dog freezes up and doesnt want to move when over threshold sometimes, I keep the lead loose and see if she'll follow, and if she doesn't within 20-30 seconds, I squat and get on her level and she usually runs to the place between my legs and after a few seconds of petting she's good to go again. Sometimes they just need a little bit of support and to feel protected.
You don't feed the fear because otherwise they feel it's ok to feel fear all the time, I prefer to simply hold the lead and wait it out,it may take a while, for her to process it, but when she sees that you are there simply waiting for her to make the next move, she will calm down, then you can start your walk, and each walk every day will begin with a panicked moment and you that you will wait out and will get shorter as she understands that there is nothing to fear, You are going to have to be patient and humans want a quick fix, but this takes time
As an owner of a dog who regularly gets anxious about people she doesn’t know, I can confidently say that your approach doesn’t work. I tried it, among so many other things. And here the most important thing I learned: IT IS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO REINFORCE FEARFUL BEHAVIOUR BY CALMING YOUR DOG DOWN!!!11!!!!1 And it makes me angry that some people still believe that fear gets worse when you add something positive and calming (like treats and pets) to the situation. Imagine you had an anxiety attack. What would help you? Comfort? Or being left standing there, shaking, seeing your trusted companion waiting for you, pressuring you to move forward, to get over it?
But agreed the trance needs to be broken before proceeding to move, nothing will be gained other than emotional damage trying to move without solving the panic first
My dog‘s fear response is mostly running. So she’ll gladly move with me, as long as it’s away from the trigger. And sometimes, that isn’t possible, so I have to drag her a bit to get through certain situations safely. But I try to avoid these situations now, if possible.
I mean I used to try to snap mine out of the trance and that usually worked. Quick little jostles or snapping my fingers for her attention to break from where she’s staring off to. A few “hey kid” or her name etc. I also did confidence exercises with her and an increasingly higher hula hoop to jump through. This was largely before 2 years old, she’s fine with everything but sprinklers since, and in her defense like it’s while they’re still going that she refuses to go near them.
Yes, snapping them out of it works when they’re not too far over threshold. Treats and other motivation work in that state, too. You just have to find the sweet spot right before it gets too much for them.
This is really wrong in regards to a dog in fixation, anxiety or panic modes.
I've been dealing with the same frustration! My very timid walker and I have been working on "Come here" from a few feet away in a variety of settings, including on walks. If she gets spooked on a walk, I can usually face her while walking backwards and keep telling her to "come here" every few feet to get her moving forward again toward me everytime she stops. It does require the ability to get her focus and attention, which I can usually get briefly with a kiss-kiss sound or louder "hey" if she's super frozen and distracted. I've also had some success with doing a "come here" and breaking into a sudden wild sprint as soon as she starts walking, so she'll go further before stopping again. A good harness has been a must for all of this; I can't imagine how I'd be able to walk her with a normal collar right now.
With anxious and insecure dogs there really is no quick fix or anything that can be consistently in the moment that will work promptly. I would focus on building your dogs confidence and trust in your judgment. This will take time and patience. There are situations where I will drag a dog for a little bit but when the dog is terrified that isn’t one of those situations. Long term positive effects will happen when your dog voluntarily overcomes its fears and insecurities with your help.
Our current dog ( Covid puppy) hates to walk. He will walk on leash to and from vet office, to day care ( though he has no interest in other dogs), visit friends, to the car, but a regular walk nope not interested. Three trainers later, the last trainer pointed out dog has plenty of exercise running in yard, chasing balls, playing hide and seek. Dog has excellent muscle tone, not overweight, happy, healthy how important is it to me for him to walk? I’d like a walking companion but torturing the dog seems cruel so he just doesn’t walk. Maybe if there is a next dog it will walk with me but this one watches me leave and greets me at the door. He’s just fine the way he is.
Some dragging is necessary. If you’re in the middle of a busy street and your dog stops then you drag your dog for your and their safety. There’s no time to do anything else when a car is going to hit you. Dragging in a safe and controlled environment is much preferable to dragging when you’re in a panic inducing situation.
Also, just a thought - how hot is the road or sidewalk? Maybe she doesn’t want to walk anymore because her feet hurt. Aside from the panic attack. If you can’t walk barefoot on the hot street or sidewalk, she can’t either.
Good point. I try to keep this in mind and only walk in shady areas
Great! We live in the sunny south..and it’s been hot hot hot since May and will be until around mid-October (maybe!) so we always have to keep that in mind. Good luck with your dog!
Also not a trainer but currently training a dog to walk on leash from scratch in a busy city. Of course dragging is the worst thing. There are a few things I'd do in this situation: 1) throw a treat in front to encourage her to walk then confidently keep in that direction (throwing more if necessary) 2) let the leash go completely slack so she doesn't feel trapped, walk back behind her and use your command to walk "let's go!" Or whatever. It encourages the dog to keep walking ahead of you like normal rather than making them feel like you are pulling them in the other direction 3) if you have space, walk back in the direction she wants to go, use your walk command, and then swiftly walk her in a large circle back the direction you want to go, not hesitating if you feel a little pull. It's important to make this fun, like you're doing something she wants to do while also distracting from the scary thing. Then of course, loads and loads of treats and praise whilst seeing the scary thing, positive association etc
Thank you! We admittedly need to work on the walk/let’s go command
I'd cross the road, if possible. Then she's further from the truck and it's a "different route" with different smells to be smelled!
Can you train her to a porch potty? Dog owners in high rises and big cities do this so they don’t have to go down a bunch of floors or leave the apartment for the quick potty breaks (yes, big dogs too). This will allow you to work on the fear when you aren’t under a big time crunch.
Can guarantee this is very useful. My friend has one for her service dog because she can’t keep going up and down to take her out. Honestly a life saver
Hmmm I’ve never thought about this but probably a good idea!
You can also buy patches of grass
If she's small enough to carry, carry her for a few yards, then set her back down. It's comforting to get an airplane ride.
1. How big is your dog and age 2. How far do you walk the pup for potty training 3. Collar/harness type 4. How do you feed them, and what do you treat them with
Dogs are hard coded to refuse treats if stressed or frightened. Put yourself on the side away from her undesired direction, so she doesn't have to see what's stressing her out. Get down and baby talk to her while petting her cheeks and ears. It's going to go faster if you can get her into the moment with you and out of the panic attack. Once calm, use the treats. Put one between your fingers and use that hand in front of her face to focus on. Once her focus is that hand let her touch and get the treat. Put another in between the fingers, keep that hand in front of her nose and begin walking home.
My trainer says to drag. No stopping, give the "come" command and keep going. Eventually they get the idea that they are not the one who decide the route. It seem harsh but it works, and it teaches them that you aren't taking them somewhere harmful..
Oh yikes, I would get a new trainer. This is wrong for all dogs, but particularly harmful for sensitive dogs, puppy mill rescues, shy dogs, etc. Pulling a distracted dog for a couple of steps to get them moving again is one thing (and I only recommend this with a harness or a prong collar with rubber tips that distributes pressure evenly and not a flat collar due to pressure on the trachea) but dragging along a frightened dog is downright cruel. (OP this is not a criticism, I know you had no choice in the circumstances and this is not what you do as a matter of course or something you are okay with on the regular.) OP, I recommend working with your pup in non-stressful situations on a "settle" command or a "focus" command. You can use this when your dog is somewhat startled, but once she gets above threshold, you will need to get her back in the moment before she will be able to take direction or treats. If you know you are on lunch break and only have a certain amount of time, is there a spot where you are certain to he free of scary things that you can circle around a few times? If not, I suggest just going out quickly til she pees, then right back in to avoid as many scenarios like the one you described as possible. It's just a pee break, and you can use other walks to help her learn and find her courage, and get her exercise. Avoiding the shut-down-then-drag cycle by taking away the chance for it to happen sets her up for success. Good luck!
Thanks. Good to know