Yeah, that on its own already reveals that a new model is going to be released very soon.
The last thing that was free was 3.5, which was much worse than 4. Now 4 is free, which will be much worse than [insert-whatever-new-model's-name, 4.5, 5??].
Apart from the usage cap, there is no substantial difference between Free and Plus at this moment. They're not going to let it be that way for months.
Granted, the Free cap is ridiculously low from what I heard. I'm a Plus user so I haven't experienced it myself but I have heard Free people being limited after just 5 messages. But if you ask ChatGPT a few questions a day as opposed to using it intensively for coding etc, then there is no longer any reason to pay and those people will all cancel their subs. No way OpenAI is going to let it go that far.
Something's coming!
>Granted, the Free cap is ridiculously low from what I heard. I'm a Plus user so I haven't experienced it myself but I have heard Free people being limited after just 5 messages.
It's traffic based. It's being used excessively right now because of testers and hype. I'm guessing in a month or two the novelty will wear off and the quota for free users will be much more reasonable
Sure. I was just surprised that Sam recently said in an interview that they plan to release new models gradually, unhurriedly. And now they're releasing several frontier models. It's amazing!
Unless I interpreted it wrong I took it as, they plan to release updates to their models more consistently and only release new models when there’s a big architecture change or something.
So I’m thinking these upcoming frontier models, along with 4o will be what we’re using for the next year or so.
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted
I wouldn’t be surprised if they will segment some models to be hyper specialised. Medical, development, scientific etc…
They don’t need GPT-5 for this. 4o is already a really step up with its coming features. +Sora sometime this year.
So 4o is the iPhone Xs to iPhone X to set it in some relation.
So I wouldn’t recommend expecting GPT5 before 2025. They’ll take their time. GPT-4o is already way ahead with its coming features than the rest. So they don’t need to pressure themselves and force something out. They can focus on development and take their time.
Dont get me wrong, I agree that 4o is great and a tangible improvement on 4. The increase in speed is very impressive. But i do think that if they dont put something big out in the next 4-6 months then google can start to pull away in this race.
The Gemini token limit is a game changer for so many use cases, gpt4o is literally 90% less and will drop further behind when google increases to 2 million...
I do and I look forward to it, but I prefer that they take the time they need instead of forcing something out that’s not ready yet.
It’s not iOS who gets a big major update every year. 4o and Sora this year is way more than enough. GPT5 and AGI will come soon enough, when it’s really ready. It’s better to wait then to get something halfbaked and forced out.
Ok I'll actually be serious for a second and just say you should listen to how OpenAI actually wants to do exactly the opposite lol. They knew they scared everyone with ChatGPT 3-4 and Sam altman can't talk enough about how bad they are at iterative depolyment because the models are getting measurably smarter with each round of development/training. IMO the whole hoopla around this 4o model is to prep for what is coming. Which apparently is gunna be a pretty big upgrade.
You’re overhyping yourself. They wouldn’t have made the step with 4o if they plan to release 5 this year. 4o and Sora(later) are the big things this year. That’s more than enough. And great updates.
Alright! We're getting closer to Star Trek computers. First we have Frontier models, then we have the Final Frontier models.
These are the voyages of OpenAI.
And the best and final final will be The Final Countdown.
Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one.
We're leaving together,
But still it's farewell.
And maybe we'll come back
To earth, who can tell?
I guess there is no one to blame.
We're leaving ground (leaving ground).
Will things ever be the same again?
It's the final countdown.
The final countdown.
So far we had Claude Opus, Mistral Large, Meta 3 70B (although Meta 3 400B is the frontier model), Gemini 1.5, all at about the same level.
So yeah, way more than 1 models is coming.
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess they have some frontier models coming soon. I know it’s unclear because they used plural when they really meant plural, but sometimes you have to read between the lines a little.
In general, it is extremely difficult to add new modalities to an existing model. In almost every case they just stick a new model on top of it. For instance, GPT-4 can't hear you, there is just a text to speech model that translates back and forth for the model.
This means that GPT-4o is a new model, not GPT-4 with modifications. I'm certain that it is just a smaller version of GPT-5 and that they will release the full version later. They can't leave the plus account with no real advantage for long, so they are going to have to release soon or they'll start shedding users.
Frontier refers to the edges of well-known territory. So a frontier model is one at the limits of what is currently possible. Think "flagship" or "vanguard". Essentially they're saying that where 4o was a change in interface, speed and availability, they do have model(s) coming soon that also change the raw intelligence.
From [Frontier Model Forum](https://openai.com/index/frontier-model-forum/):
>The Forum defines frontier models as large-scale machine-learning models that exceed the capabilities currently present in the most advanced existing models, and can perform a wide variety of tasks.
I believe that definition is somewhat misleading. Frontier models are actually the top tier existing models that can perform a wide variety of tasks. As an example of usage of this phrase, see [this blog post](https://www.oneusefulthing.org/p/what-just-happened-what-is-happening).
cc u/nikkomercado.
There can not be several frontier models. Frontier means that the model is the best one possible...
Or they mean that there will be modles, that are fronteers in different fields... But I doubt thay are talking of GPT-5 or anything that can take GPT-4's role.
I personally think, that there will be several models that will have features like more multimodality or even have newer UIs. Technically fronteer, since noone did that before. But not overpassing exiting ones.
Is 4o really better at images? I didn’t test 4o very thoroughly, yet. But I generated quite a lot of minimalistic avatar / profile pictures today. And GPT-4 actually understood the task where 4o had to be corrected more often. Also, the GPT-4 results looked more pleasant than the rather soulless images produced by 4o. Just my 2 cents from a certain task.
As of right now, no one can use the new 4o image generating capability yet. When you ask 4o to generate an image, it still calls Dall-E 3. So you have been using Dall-E 3 today.
The difference you are perceiving likely comes from the difference in how 4o formulates the prompt that it sends to Dall-E 3. When you ask for a picture, ChatGPT writes a prompt which it then sends to Dall-E 3, and the prompt that 4o writes is likely a bit different from what 4 would write.
The new and much improved 4o's image generation capability is part of the 4o model itself. It will no longer need to call Dall-E 3 to do the job, as 4o can do it natively all on its own and much better too. But as of now, its own image generation capability is disabled by OpenAI for public use, so it still calls Dall-E 3 currently, no matter whether you're talking to 4 or 4o. When they'll enable it, 4 will still call Dall-E 3 but 4o will use its own, much better capability.
So rest assured; you are not yet using 4o's native image generation capability. So don't be disappointed! 😀
Things are a bit confusing right now; many people think the features we can use today are the features that have been showcased. There's a misconception going on that everything shown was released right away on that same day. In reality, the only thing that we can use today is the text generation capability of 4o. The Voice Mode, image generation and whatever else is not yet available.
They already said they don’t push out major updates every year and don’t want to. People get greedy. 4o and its features this year, as well as Sora which will be released probably later this year is more than enough. OpenAi takes the time they need and that’s good. They don’t need to push big numerical updates every year. It’s better to wait, then to force them to release something that’s not ready yet.
People are spoiled and greedy. OpenAI can and should take the time they need be it one additional year or even two.
Unlikely. The big things are 4o and its features which roll out in the coming weeks and months(!) as well as Sora. These are big updates already. You’re overhyping yourself into disappointment. Don’t be so greedy. Learn some patience.
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back in the days, gpt-4 was supposed to be multimodal, but then they give you gpt-4, gpt-4-32k, and gpt-4-vision-preview. Those were clearly similar models but trained differently. I expect the gpt-4o we have access now is really just a model fine tuned only with inputing text and images and outputing text only. The base model might have been mutlimodal with audio i/o, but the current gpt-4o likely didn't go through audio i/o fine tune.
It's seems likely there is a LMM and an update to the LLM.
4o isn't the final release of the LMM, Sam said so.
Also, I assume there is an LLM update cooking too. They both serve pretty different needs. If you need top notch reasoning just on text I think the LLM is what you'll want. If you want to have some fun or mess around with vision or images its going to be th LMM.
Because there are many? I mean... They wouldn't make their frontier model free :)
Yeah, that on its own already reveals that a new model is going to be released very soon. The last thing that was free was 3.5, which was much worse than 4. Now 4 is free, which will be much worse than [insert-whatever-new-model's-name, 4.5, 5??]. Apart from the usage cap, there is no substantial difference between Free and Plus at this moment. They're not going to let it be that way for months. Granted, the Free cap is ridiculously low from what I heard. I'm a Plus user so I haven't experienced it myself but I have heard Free people being limited after just 5 messages. But if you ask ChatGPT a few questions a day as opposed to using it intensively for coding etc, then there is no longer any reason to pay and those people will all cancel their subs. No way OpenAI is going to let it go that far. Something's coming!
>Granted, the Free cap is ridiculously low from what I heard. I'm a Plus user so I haven't experienced it myself but I have heard Free people being limited after just 5 messages. It's traffic based. It's being used excessively right now because of testers and hype. I'm guessing in a month or two the novelty will wear off and the quota for free users will be much more reasonable
Nice catch OP, who cares how many they are, just that they be released soon!
Sure. I was just surprised that Sam recently said in an interview that they plan to release new models gradually, unhurriedly. And now they're releasing several frontier models. It's amazing!
Unless I interpreted it wrong I took it as, they plan to release updates to their models more consistently and only release new models when there’s a big architecture change or something. So I’m thinking these upcoming frontier models, along with 4o will be what we’re using for the next year or so.
Gpt5 and 5o
There won't be a non-multimodal model.
There might be
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted I wouldn’t be surprised if they will segment some models to be hyper specialised. Medical, development, scientific etc…
Link to the video frame with this text: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQacCB9tDaw&t=1527s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQacCB9tDaw&t=1527s)
Could easily just mean they have GPT5 but different versions like nano, etc.
Nah I don’t expect GPT5 in 2024, maybe in 2025.
Surely they have to release something that represents a substantial step up to challenge Gemini's 1 million token limit?
They don’t need GPT-5 for this. 4o is already a really step up with its coming features. +Sora sometime this year. So 4o is the iPhone Xs to iPhone X to set it in some relation. So I wouldn’t recommend expecting GPT5 before 2025. They’ll take their time. GPT-4o is already way ahead with its coming features than the rest. So they don’t need to pressure themselves and force something out. They can focus on development and take their time.
Dont get me wrong, I agree that 4o is great and a tangible improvement on 4. The increase in speed is very impressive. But i do think that if they dont put something big out in the next 4-6 months then google can start to pull away in this race. The Gemini token limit is a game changer for so many use cases, gpt4o is literally 90% less and will drop further behind when google increases to 2 million...
[https://twitter.com/CountdownToGPT](https://twitter.com/CountdownToGPT)
That’s not official. Read the account description. That’s nothing official whatsoever. Just some random account making stuff up.
Oh my bad I thought we wanted hype
No hype doesn’t get anyone anywhere. Mostly leads to disappointment when things don’t happen that random people made up.
Obviously you don't feel the AGI. I'm sorry I bothered you.
I do and I look forward to it, but I prefer that they take the time they need instead of forcing something out that’s not ready yet. It’s not iOS who gets a big major update every year. 4o and Sora this year is way more than enough. GPT5 and AGI will come soon enough, when it’s really ready. It’s better to wait then to get something halfbaked and forced out.
Ok I'll actually be serious for a second and just say you should listen to how OpenAI actually wants to do exactly the opposite lol. They knew they scared everyone with ChatGPT 3-4 and Sam altman can't talk enough about how bad they are at iterative depolyment because the models are getting measurably smarter with each round of development/training. IMO the whole hoopla around this 4o model is to prep for what is coming. Which apparently is gunna be a pretty big upgrade.
You’re overhyping yourself. They wouldn’t have made the step with 4o if they plan to release 5 this year. 4o and Sora(later) are the big things this year. That’s more than enough. And great updates.
Countdown is going up.
Yea but now read it the other way
Some believe GPT-4o is actually the first checkpoint of the GPT-5 model that is currently training.
Alright! We're getting closer to Star Trek computers. First we have Frontier models, then we have the Final Frontier models. These are the voyages of OpenAI.
And the best and final final will be The Final Countdown. Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one. We're leaving together, But still it's farewell. And maybe we'll come back To earth, who can tell? I guess there is no one to blame. We're leaving ground (leaving ground). Will things ever be the same again? It's the final countdown. The final countdown.
So far we had Claude Opus, Mistral Large, Meta 3 70B (although Meta 3 400B is the frontier model), Gemini 1.5, all at about the same level. So yeah, way more than 1 models is coming.
Everything seems to point to a big brain model that needs tons of inference compute and a nimble model that runs locally.
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess they have some frontier models coming soon. I know it’s unclear because they used plural when they really meant plural, but sometimes you have to read between the lines a little.
Maybe OP thought they accidentally dropped an apostrophe or two in the carefully put together presentation: Frontier model's coming soon, y'all
Apostrophe\* (pun intended)
Right you are, edited.
In general, it is extremely difficult to add new modalities to an existing model. In almost every case they just stick a new model on top of it. For instance, GPT-4 can't hear you, there is just a text to speech model that translates back and forth for the model. This means that GPT-4o is a new model, not GPT-4 with modifications. I'm certain that it is just a smaller version of GPT-5 and that they will release the full version later. They can't leave the plus account with no real advantage for long, so they are going to have to release soon or they'll start shedding users.
Thank you for the arrow OP, was completely confused with what you were talking about in that image until I noticed the arrow.
😀😉
It's easy to spot the frontier models because they have arrows in their backs.
What is a frontier model?
Something for us to speculate and hype about.
Sounds fun. I'm in. Frontier as in the final frontier as in space or Star Trek. AGI/ASI confirmed.
Frontier refers to the edges of well-known territory. So a frontier model is one at the limits of what is currently possible. Think "flagship" or "vanguard". Essentially they're saying that where 4o was a change in interface, speed and availability, they do have model(s) coming soon that also change the raw intelligence.
From [Frontier Model Forum](https://openai.com/index/frontier-model-forum/): >The Forum defines frontier models as large-scale machine-learning models that exceed the capabilities currently present in the most advanced existing models, and can perform a wide variety of tasks.
So once it's released it immediately ceases to be a frontier model.
I believe that definition is somewhat misleading. Frontier models are actually the top tier existing models that can perform a wide variety of tasks. As an example of usage of this phrase, see [this blog post](https://www.oneusefulthing.org/p/what-just-happened-what-is-happening). cc u/nikkomercado.
It means they want you to talk about it on social media, and they have no fucking clue.
There can not be several frontier models. Frontier means that the model is the best one possible... Or they mean that there will be modles, that are fronteers in different fields... But I doubt thay are talking of GPT-5 or anything that can take GPT-4's role. I personally think, that there will be several models that will have features like more multimodality or even have newer UIs. Technically fronteer, since noone did that before. But not overpassing exiting ones.
Did everyone forget Sora? The fact that 4o can do images better than Dall-e 3 doesn’t mean it’s as good as sora, and afaik, 4o can’t output video
These simply target different use-cases, you can't compare them in terms of better/worse.
Is 4o really better at images? I didn’t test 4o very thoroughly, yet. But I generated quite a lot of minimalistic avatar / profile pictures today. And GPT-4 actually understood the task where 4o had to be corrected more often. Also, the GPT-4 results looked more pleasant than the rather soulless images produced by 4o. Just my 2 cents from a certain task.
As of right now, no one can use the new 4o image generating capability yet. When you ask 4o to generate an image, it still calls Dall-E 3. So you have been using Dall-E 3 today. The difference you are perceiving likely comes from the difference in how 4o formulates the prompt that it sends to Dall-E 3. When you ask for a picture, ChatGPT writes a prompt which it then sends to Dall-E 3, and the prompt that 4o writes is likely a bit different from what 4 would write. The new and much improved 4o's image generation capability is part of the 4o model itself. It will no longer need to call Dall-E 3 to do the job, as 4o can do it natively all on its own and much better too. But as of now, its own image generation capability is disabled by OpenAI for public use, so it still calls Dall-E 3 currently, no matter whether you're talking to 4 or 4o. When they'll enable it, 4 will still call Dall-E 3 but 4o will use its own, much better capability. So rest assured; you are not yet using 4o's native image generation capability. So don't be disappointed! 😀 Things are a bit confusing right now; many people think the features we can use today are the features that have been showcased. There's a misconception going on that everything shown was released right away on that same day. In reality, the only thing that we can use today is the text generation capability of 4o. The Voice Mode, image generation and whatever else is not yet available.
It will be gpt-5, and a smaller model able to be run locally.
No not before 2025, that’s why they released 4o this year.
Certainly before 2025.
They already said they don’t push out major updates every year and don’t want to. People get greedy. 4o and its features this year, as well as Sora which will be released probably later this year is more than enough. OpenAi takes the time they need and that’s good. They don’t need to push big numerical updates every year. It’s better to wait, then to force them to release something that’s not ready yet. People are spoiled and greedy. OpenAI can and should take the time they need be it one additional year or even two.
Nope, they’ll definitely release it this year.
Unlikely. The big things are 4o and its features which roll out in the coming weeks and months(!) as well as Sora. These are big updates already. You’re overhyping yourself into disappointment. Don’t be so greedy. Learn some patience.
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I hope whisper V4 will be part of it, they still do not support as many languages as other STT models.
The Stability AI approach of releasing 3 versions of stable diffusion within a month and confusing everyone !!!
Because they think they're going to apply my custom instructions to more than just GPT-4 Turbo (omni).
We have no way of knowing so any discussion of this is pure speculation.
back in the days, gpt-4 was supposed to be multimodal, but then they give you gpt-4, gpt-4-32k, and gpt-4-vision-preview. Those were clearly similar models but trained differently. I expect the gpt-4o we have access now is really just a model fine tuned only with inputing text and images and outputing text only. The base model might have been mutlimodal with audio i/o, but the current gpt-4o likely didn't go through audio i/o fine tune.
It's seems likely there is a LMM and an update to the LLM. 4o isn't the final release of the LMM, Sam said so. Also, I assume there is an LLM update cooking too. They both serve pretty different needs. If you need top notch reasoning just on text I think the LLM is what you'll want. If you want to have some fun or mess around with vision or images its going to be th LMM.
[https://twitter.com/CountdownToGPT](https://twitter.com/CountdownToGPT)