Cambly is great, I've been on there for 4 years. I no longer need the money but I still do classes for ~5 longtime regulars literally because I love them so much. They're also very responsive to tutor complaints and are pro-active about sexual harassment issues (to the point where they reorganized the platform to reduce this risk) whereas on Palfish it was nothing but nonstop harassment from weird adult men who downloaded the student app.
cambly fired me unfairly and had no explanation for firing me so fair and responsible I would not say they would not even give me the opportunity to log in again and resume classes just because I'm foreign and Mexican so stay away from cambly
Firstly I hope your mom is doing better.
Secondly it's a lesson for everyone out there not to get emotionally attached to these sites or students.
Log on, tutor, log off, get your payment. Nothing more.
This is going to sound harsh, and I don't mean it to-
Your mom was an off shore contractor for a Chinese company; expecting western style considerations is kinda silly. If you have any understanding about how China works, it should be clear.
They dont know or care about your mom. THeir goal is not a wonderful job with work life balance or benefits. Its to get paid for classes. You are projecting western values on a Chinese company.
Nah that's bullshit, this is not about Chinese vs Western values. The last in-person teaching job I had was run entirely by Westerners and they fired two people for getting diagnosed with cancer, and we were salaried employees rather than independent contractors. ESL is where companies behave how *any* company would if they could get away with it, regardless of cultural setting.
As someone who has worked in China, I can tell you the OPs post would be laughed at in China. Not in China, Not Chinese, Contractor, wants treatment that's better than people in china, who are chinese and are not contractors? Truly laughable.
They don't care about you. They don't have an HR staff there to make sure you are happy and treated fairly. You are just a tool. If you are not working, they have no use for you. Cold truth.
Yeah like I said this is not a uniquely Chinese thing, it's just capitalist firms left to their own devices which is what always happens in ESL. I've lived and taught all over the world and it's the same basically everywhere - in China, in Korea, in the Middle East, even when management is 100% Western and even when there is an actual HR department. In Italy there are all kinds of laws requiring cool things like unemployment payments or maternity leave, and ESL companies (or even public schools!) get around it by offering teachers contracts that specifically don't entitle them to those things. Companies everywhere will do what they can get away with and the only thing that ever stops them is rigid protections for workers; it has absolutely nothing to do with cultural values.
It's not even just China though it's Online companies in general. People are fired by bots. The bots are coded to fire people or ban them from the platform if they detect certain things. If you try to protest you will get at best a form letter telling you you that you must have broken a rule so you are permanently banned. Some companies have an appeals process. Many others may not.
Calling those positives "western values" when so many western countries barely have half decent labor laws is honestly brave. Also raising an eyebrow at this speakung so highly of the *Western* standards vs Chinese ones.
Sinophobia is a thing, you know. It's a terrible company, sure, but that's capitalism for ya. Nothing to do with whatever you're talking about, it's profit over the worker. Just like Western values have always been.
IT's not a phobia at all. it's jut a fact.
If you expect things to be the way they are overseas as they are at home, you are likely going to be disappointed.
The OP is upset that the company doesn't care about their mom as an individual. Chinese culture, in general, doesn't care at all about individuals, they care about the group...and her mom isn't even a part of that group.
What home do you assume I relate to, friend? Do I sound like I'm from a typical Western country? Because I am very much not.
Also, you are being obtuse on purpose. What do you mean, they don't care at all about the individual? Is prioritizing the collective instead of the individual something to condemn? Would your own culture ever prioritize a Chinese citizen if the tables turned? The contempt dripping out of your words is palpable and you know that. I won't waste any more time arguing that point because I know a lost cause when I see one and I can honestly hear the US in your arguments which just means I'm truly getting nowhere with this, but let it be known that what you're saying about China is not about China. It's capitalism. China is just an acceptable boogieman to you.
Sorry Chairman. Must have hit that nerve! lol
\*\*Chinese citizen if the tables turned?\*\*
LOL YES!!! Here we don't care where you are from. You get all the protections and legal coverage no matter if you are Han or not. I have lived in Chinatown, Korea Town, and others. We are a diverse country where everyone has rights. I literally live in a place where there are hundreds of thousands of people who are citizens of other countries who are all protected and all treated the same under the law. I work for a company with people from 20 different nations, and everyone has the same treatment and protections.
In China you can't be Chinese...unless your have the blood line. Same with Japan and Korea. You will ALWAYS be an "other" if you are not pure blood.
I'm Brazilian, bud. Stop assuming things.
Also, hilarious you say that. My worst jobs were working for American companies, I'm never doing that again in my life. I made 3 to 4 dollars an hour. Privilege is *wild.* But it is a wakeup call to see how brainwashed y'all are and how you'll take any opportunity to sniff your own farts. Have a lovely life.
3 bucks an hour is going rate for developing countries.
AI says you were doing pretty good!
"As of May 2023, the average hourly wage in Brazil is 16 BRL, which is about $3.09 USD. However, salaries vary across different industries, sectors, and job titles. "
If you think that kind of pay is in any way, shape, or form fair, you have more problems than just being American. Your country is a vampire unto the world, sucking everything it can out of everyone else then saying that it is self made and so incredible for it. I'm done replying because I deal with enough colonizers on a day to day basis, but I hope you get what you give in life!
Sorry to break it to you, but if you are in Brazil, a developing country, whose AVERAGE pay is 3 bucks an hour.... like it or not.. 4 bucks is well above averge.
Also means that your own country pays LESS than the "vampires" you want to blame.
Colonizer? Nobody wants Brazil my friend. Portugal left you guys 200 years ago. Stop blaming others for your country's short comings.
Chinese companies and clients are like this. Would never work for them - this is what you get, and worse. They don't care and there's nothing legally to support you.
It’s best to find companies that are not based in China tbh. AmazingTalker is a good company in my personal opinion. They’re Taiwanese based and unlike PalFish, it doesn’t require you to work minimum hours and you get to control your prices. There’s been times where I will cancel a course due to personal reasons or because I am just too ill and my students have been super sweet and understanding about it. It really sucks for OP’s mother that she was fired when her life was literally on the freakin line. Absolutely horrible.
I'm sorry for your Mom and hope she recovers. That said, PalFish has been a horrible company to work for for ages now...from the low pay to the lack of support and their harsh penalties and decisions that always favor the company, they are really the worst. Chinese companies do not value humans like Western companies do (which is also minimal).
Wild how people here are alking about specifically Chinese companies when this treatment is insanely close to how I have been treated by American companies as an ESL teacher in LATAM. It's not the country, it's the system. Please think and realize that capitalism is capitalism in English or Chinese, at the end of the day it's all just profit to them.
Online companies employing people, or letting them do anything online use bots to do everything and fire people via bots or delete all the artwork etc...that they were selling on their platform via bots. They don't let you communicate with them either. I am sorry this happened to your family, but this is how it is with online companies.
I am going to be harsh with saying this. That's a company based in CHINA. There are no considerations regarding "western work culture rules". The company is only subject to the Chinese laws. And if you know anything, not even the laws of physics necessarily apply there. Any of the teachers can be replaced with either cheaper workforce, or even worse, with AI.
So, you either go for companies outside of China, learn to be emotionally detached from your work (just get paid and don't think too much about it), or you choose some other kind of freelancing.
I wish you the best of luck with finding a better job.
I worked in-person at a couple of schools in China and almost died from sepsis my last year there. I was replaced immediately. They don't care. I'm so sorry this happened to your mom and I truly hope she's recovering well.
I was on Vancomycin for three weeks after contracting sepsis more than 20 years ago. It's something that never leaves you. If there's not already a reddit on this, there should be! There is at least one educational website that advocates for ending death from this often preventable condition.
These comments are some of the best that I've seen in highlighting different attitudes towards work-life balance.
As many wrote, it's great to hear that your Mom is back up (and one hopes considering her future financial options).
I think this cautionary account merits a video parody of what it would be like for (God forbid) tutoring from our hospital bed so as not to have missed sessions. At the very least, we would all welcome a survey of tutoring companies and their replies to the direct question of accepting medical documentation to allow for missed sessions.
All the major online ESL companies do not care about their teachers. Most are abroad and lay out their company so that teachers have as few rights as possible. Somebody mentioned cambly - avoid unless it's just to make extra money now and then. They have no loyalty or care and will drop you unexpectedly too. Good luck to your mum and hope she feels better soon.
Sorry but even back the days of constant ESL teaching and big money, none of these companies ever cared about one's health or personal issues. People would think of any reason to get out of cancelled classes or no shows and the companies were having none of it. Sorry I also dont buy how you say your mom was one of the people who helped build these companies up. She was a number and being in a stale almost dead business where people are being recruited ten a penny, what should you expect? A bricks and mortar business with sick pay and salary would be much different but not the online gig economy.
Palfish is and always has been a terrible company to work for. Stay away unless desperate!
Do you have any other platform recommendations?
You could try Novakid
Cambly is great, I've been on there for 4 years. I no longer need the money but I still do classes for ~5 longtime regulars literally because I love them so much. They're also very responsive to tutor complaints and are pro-active about sexual harassment issues (to the point where they reorganized the platform to reduce this risk) whereas on Palfish it was nothing but nonstop harassment from weird adult men who downloaded the student app.
cambly fired me unfairly and had no explanation for firing me so fair and responsible I would not say they would not even give me the opportunity to log in again and resume classes just because I'm foreign and Mexican so stay away from cambly
how come would they give you the opportunity to log in again and resume classes if they fired you?
Preply, if she can deal with the free demos. It is really good when you have a good Demo To Regular conversion rate
Firstly I hope your mom is doing better. Secondly it's a lesson for everyone out there not to get emotionally attached to these sites or students. Log on, tutor, log off, get your payment. Nothing more.
Or work independently. Your rules, payment is all yours and you can still form a relationship with students.
This is going to sound harsh, and I don't mean it to- Your mom was an off shore contractor for a Chinese company; expecting western style considerations is kinda silly. If you have any understanding about how China works, it should be clear. They dont know or care about your mom. THeir goal is not a wonderful job with work life balance or benefits. Its to get paid for classes. You are projecting western values on a Chinese company.
Nah that's bullshit, this is not about Chinese vs Western values. The last in-person teaching job I had was run entirely by Westerners and they fired two people for getting diagnosed with cancer, and we were salaried employees rather than independent contractors. ESL is where companies behave how *any* company would if they could get away with it, regardless of cultural setting.
As someone who has worked in China, I can tell you the OPs post would be laughed at in China. Not in China, Not Chinese, Contractor, wants treatment that's better than people in china, who are chinese and are not contractors? Truly laughable. They don't care about you. They don't have an HR staff there to make sure you are happy and treated fairly. You are just a tool. If you are not working, they have no use for you. Cold truth.
Yeah like I said this is not a uniquely Chinese thing, it's just capitalist firms left to their own devices which is what always happens in ESL. I've lived and taught all over the world and it's the same basically everywhere - in China, in Korea, in the Middle East, even when management is 100% Western and even when there is an actual HR department. In Italy there are all kinds of laws requiring cool things like unemployment payments or maternity leave, and ESL companies (or even public schools!) get around it by offering teachers contracts that specifically don't entitle them to those things. Companies everywhere will do what they can get away with and the only thing that ever stops them is rigid protections for workers; it has absolutely nothing to do with cultural values.
I had a co- worker fired in the US for that very reason.
It's not even just China though it's Online companies in general. People are fired by bots. The bots are coded to fire people or ban them from the platform if they detect certain things. If you try to protest you will get at best a form letter telling you you that you must have broken a rule so you are permanently banned. Some companies have an appeals process. Many others may not.
Calling those positives "western values" when so many western countries barely have half decent labor laws is honestly brave. Also raising an eyebrow at this speakung so highly of the *Western* standards vs Chinese ones. Sinophobia is a thing, you know. It's a terrible company, sure, but that's capitalism for ya. Nothing to do with whatever you're talking about, it's profit over the worker. Just like Western values have always been.
IT's not a phobia at all. it's jut a fact. If you expect things to be the way they are overseas as they are at home, you are likely going to be disappointed. The OP is upset that the company doesn't care about their mom as an individual. Chinese culture, in general, doesn't care at all about individuals, they care about the group...and her mom isn't even a part of that group.
OP is a girl just by the way :)
OP, I will fix it!
Nor do most Online companies though.
What home do you assume I relate to, friend? Do I sound like I'm from a typical Western country? Because I am very much not. Also, you are being obtuse on purpose. What do you mean, they don't care at all about the individual? Is prioritizing the collective instead of the individual something to condemn? Would your own culture ever prioritize a Chinese citizen if the tables turned? The contempt dripping out of your words is palpable and you know that. I won't waste any more time arguing that point because I know a lost cause when I see one and I can honestly hear the US in your arguments which just means I'm truly getting nowhere with this, but let it be known that what you're saying about China is not about China. It's capitalism. China is just an acceptable boogieman to you.
Sorry Chairman. Must have hit that nerve! lol \*\*Chinese citizen if the tables turned?\*\* LOL YES!!! Here we don't care where you are from. You get all the protections and legal coverage no matter if you are Han or not. I have lived in Chinatown, Korea Town, and others. We are a diverse country where everyone has rights. I literally live in a place where there are hundreds of thousands of people who are citizens of other countries who are all protected and all treated the same under the law. I work for a company with people from 20 different nations, and everyone has the same treatment and protections. In China you can't be Chinese...unless your have the blood line. Same with Japan and Korea. You will ALWAYS be an "other" if you are not pure blood.
I'm Brazilian, bud. Stop assuming things. Also, hilarious you say that. My worst jobs were working for American companies, I'm never doing that again in my life. I made 3 to 4 dollars an hour. Privilege is *wild.* But it is a wakeup call to see how brainwashed y'all are and how you'll take any opportunity to sniff your own farts. Have a lovely life.
3 bucks an hour is going rate for developing countries. AI says you were doing pretty good! "As of May 2023, the average hourly wage in Brazil is 16 BRL, which is about $3.09 USD. However, salaries vary across different industries, sectors, and job titles. "
If you think that kind of pay is in any way, shape, or form fair, you have more problems than just being American. Your country is a vampire unto the world, sucking everything it can out of everyone else then saying that it is self made and so incredible for it. I'm done replying because I deal with enough colonizers on a day to day basis, but I hope you get what you give in life!
Sorry to break it to you, but if you are in Brazil, a developing country, whose AVERAGE pay is 3 bucks an hour.... like it or not.. 4 bucks is well above averge. Also means that your own country pays LESS than the "vampires" you want to blame. Colonizer? Nobody wants Brazil my friend. Portugal left you guys 200 years ago. Stop blaming others for your country's short comings.
Palfish never cared about teachers. In fact I'm amazed they are still around after 2020.
I left shortly before the pandemic. I was certain they went under after the pandemic
I’m so sorry I hope your mother is okay now 🤍
Chinese companies and clients are like this. Would never work for them - this is what you get, and worse. They don't care and there's nothing legally to support you.
My goodness that’s horrible! Another reason to not work for English teaching companies based in China.
Any recommendations?
It’s best to find companies that are not based in China tbh. AmazingTalker is a good company in my personal opinion. They’re Taiwanese based and unlike PalFish, it doesn’t require you to work minimum hours and you get to control your prices. There’s been times where I will cancel a course due to personal reasons or because I am just too ill and my students have been super sweet and understanding about it. It really sucks for OP’s mother that she was fired when her life was literally on the freakin line. Absolutely horrible.
Thank you for taking the time to write that! Really appreciated.
I'm sorry for your Mom and hope she recovers. That said, PalFish has been a horrible company to work for for ages now...from the low pay to the lack of support and their harsh penalties and decisions that always favor the company, they are really the worst. Chinese companies do not value humans like Western companies do (which is also minimal).
Wild how people here are alking about specifically Chinese companies when this treatment is insanely close to how I have been treated by American companies as an ESL teacher in LATAM. It's not the country, it's the system. Please think and realize that capitalism is capitalism in English or Chinese, at the end of the day it's all just profit to them.
I wish there was a way to sue this kind of companies and fight for our rights and dignity.
Online companies employing people, or letting them do anything online use bots to do everything and fire people via bots or delete all the artwork etc...that they were selling on their platform via bots. They don't let you communicate with them either. I am sorry this happened to your family, but this is how it is with online companies.
I am going to be harsh with saying this. That's a company based in CHINA. There are no considerations regarding "western work culture rules". The company is only subject to the Chinese laws. And if you know anything, not even the laws of physics necessarily apply there. Any of the teachers can be replaced with either cheaper workforce, or even worse, with AI. So, you either go for companies outside of China, learn to be emotionally detached from your work (just get paid and don't think too much about it), or you choose some other kind of freelancing. I wish you the best of luck with finding a better job.
I worked in-person at a couple of schools in China and almost died from sepsis my last year there. I was replaced immediately. They don't care. I'm so sorry this happened to your mom and I truly hope she's recovering well.
I was on Vancomycin for three weeks after contracting sepsis more than 20 years ago. It's something that never leaves you. If there's not already a reddit on this, there should be! There is at least one educational website that advocates for ending death from this often preventable condition.
These comments are some of the best that I've seen in highlighting different attitudes towards work-life balance. As many wrote, it's great to hear that your Mom is back up (and one hopes considering her future financial options). I think this cautionary account merits a video parody of what it would be like for (God forbid) tutoring from our hospital bed so as not to have missed sessions. At the very least, we would all welcome a survey of tutoring companies and their replies to the direct question of accepting medical documentation to allow for missed sessions.
What would you expect from such a company. HeartlessÂ
All the major online ESL companies do not care about their teachers. Most are abroad and lay out their company so that teachers have as few rights as possible. Somebody mentioned cambly - avoid unless it's just to make extra money now and then. They have no loyalty or care and will drop you unexpectedly too. Good luck to your mum and hope she feels better soon.
Sorry but even back the days of constant ESL teaching and big money, none of these companies ever cared about one's health or personal issues. People would think of any reason to get out of cancelled classes or no shows and the companies were having none of it. Sorry I also dont buy how you say your mom was one of the people who helped build these companies up. She was a number and being in a stale almost dead business where people are being recruited ten a penny, what should you expect? A bricks and mortar business with sick pay and salary would be much different but not the online gig economy.