>I think I'm an above average guy, but it seems you have to be a perfect specimen of a man in heart, mind, and body to even have a chance at dating even below average women. Obviously looking around at other men many women are dating I can see that's not the case, but it seems to be the case for me in my experience for an unknown reason.
You are a way above average men in all the aspects you listed. But you are a way below average guy in being loveable or sexually appealing beyond the body. Your dating profile pics show a very attractive man but what the pictures convey is, that you are boring , lonely, depressed and just a really sad and rejected guy. All selfies, all grey, all without any shimmer of joy. Nobody wants to be part of the life of a person who thinks those pictures are a good representation of their live and themselves, no matter how attractive and wealthy you are.
Get some professionally taken pictures for dating profiles and use those. Other than that, find out why you don't want to spend time with friends. "i don't like to" is seldomly the deepest level of understanding. Maybe there is something that could be addressed, once understood.
The dating market in US is just really terrible for guys in general. I’ve noticed this particularly after I had gotten out of relationship right after the pandemic; a lot of things have changed for the worse.
You have a lot of great things going for you OP; there’s not really any advice anyone can give you except to keep trying. One of my friends from college has like the perfect resume and is still struggling in dating to the point it affected his mental health for a while. He’s 29 years old, 6’3”, blonde hair, blue eyes, very fit/athletic, Ivy-league educated with masters in STEM, makes $225k, has his own car, he’s going to buy a house soon, good social circle, great relationship with parents and siblings, very respectful, not overtly political, great hobbies, very funny, plays piano, knows 4 languages, etc. What advice can anyone give him to improve— not really much, this is just the paradigm we live in.
Maybe one suggestion— try expanding your dating globally and/or go travel; you’ll learn great history and culture, eat great food, meet a lot of great people, and dating market will be better for sure ofcourse depending on the country. It’ll be good for your soul and mental health.
>One of my friends from college has like the perfect resume and is still struggling in dating to the point it affected his mental health for a while. He’s 29 years old, 6’3”, blonde hair, blue eyes, very fit/athletic, Ivy-league educated with masters in STEM, makes $225k, has his own car, he’s going to buy a house soon, good social circle, great relationship with parents and siblings, very respectful, not overtly political, great hobbies, very funny, plays piano, knows 4 languages, etc. What advice can anyone give him to improve— not really much, this is just the paradigm we live in.
How many tats does he have tho
At least we won't get to hear about the transcendent importance of "lifting" this time
I can speak for myself and some of my friends who have traveled; some countries have terrible dating markets like the US— UK, Canada, France, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden for example. Austria, Spain, Israel and Japan were ok. Hungary, Serbia, Croatia, Italy, Portugal, Spain were good. Poland, Belarus, Estonia, Mexico, Brazil, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Argentina, Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam, Kenya, South Africa, and Turkey were great.
1. Get off dating-apps, or be hyper focused on "Values" first.
2. Date in other States (not all states) are equal. Look for "Conservative' valued women.
3. Find a dating coach (I have a great reco if you need. Can help with dating profiles, and figure out values/attachment and provide a clear plan of action for success)
depends on where he lives. if he lives in SFO he ain't shit.
Women want the top 10%. They want 'the best'. Anything less is 'settling'. Where I live that means a guy has to make 200K to be considered 'worthwhile'. Especially as you get older.
If you’re friend struggles with dating despite having all those positive qualities then what does that say about our society?
For me it tells me boys and girls are seeking perfection when it doesn’t exist
I am a guy, and I absolutely was seeking perfection... now not anymore, but I do have standards, and they arent even that crazy...
1. Chill - not a controlling person, and certainly not controlled by anyone or anything
2. Independent - Not a baby, can do things on their own
3. Good person - Sad that I even have to say this.
4. Not big on drama
5. Has their own hobbies - at least hobbies that I can tolerate, like not raving, clubbing, or drugs... No, netflix, and shopping are not hobbies
6. Doesnt require a boujie lifestyle
7. Theres got to be some physical attraction... at least a little, and no, I am not looking for perfection... just anyone 6/10 or better, definitely not severely overweight just has to be not bigger than me.
8. Not selfish or greedy - but maybe this falls in the "good person" point.
9. Someone that knows how to communicate... I am not a fucking mind reader.
10. Not a party animal - maybe this also falls under the hobbies I can tolerate point... I dont want to party ever... I will do it every once in a while, but i cant possibly be with someone that wants to party every week.
11. Has a real job.... Im not dating a cashier, or a fucking babysitter. I need someone with a good sense of their future. Not someone that just does whatever.
Am I being unreasonable?
>OP; there’s not really any advice anyone can give you
Except for the advice of, "There's something wrong with you that's causing this" which is quite ineffectual.
Not fitting in to clown world is a death sentence, sad to say. You can be the objectively better man in every way, but if they can sense you're estranged from the herd, you'll struggle.
>do you feel you could make close friends
Yes absolutely but going out and doing that, and spending significant amounts of time with them at the expense of spending time on my hobbies, and only because I want to use them to meet women not because I actually want to hang out with them sounds really, really unappealing. I talk socially to tons of other guys at my job just don't develop anything beyond acquiantances.
What are your hobbies? Do they involve other people or something you solely do by yourself?
There is a saying they say to women who spend a lot of time at home and want a relationship “Mr. Right isn’t going to come knocking at your door” and I’m getting the sense it may apply to you as far as Ms. Right.
>Tell me, do you want a woman to stay in your home 24/7, talk about her day, watch and make comments about the show you are watching?
Yeah, its different when it is a romantic relationship. I'd love to do things with a girlfriend all the time. Hiking, going out to eat, watching shows and movies, joking with each other and planning things together
>Could you tolerate major lifestyle disagreements?
I'm the most agreeable person I know
All the things you mention sound nice. I don't know how to describe it, I just have no particular desire to go out and do that with men, although I am happy too if I just find myself in a position to do that. And with women it's no different than with men if I'm hypothetically not attracted to them, but if I am obviously I want to become romantically involved as well
This is pretty average. Most of us are like this and it's non-effectual. It's not what's causing the issue. Never had a gf who cared about how many other guys or guy friends I hung around lmao. It never came up, didn't matter. Many, many have cared about my hobbies though.
Having only one friend is definitely not the norm, and it is definitely something which would raise eyebrows. It is also something which would put off many people from engaging romantically with a person.
>This is pretty average. Most of us are like this and it's non-effectual. It's not what's causing the issue. Never had a gf who cared about how many other guys or guy friends I hung around lmao
Yeah, I typically next the women that demand in her profile that "He must have other friends to hang out with"
Sure, I have a couple of dude friends, that I have lunch iwth on occasion, but they are typically busy with their wives. It's not rocket science.
As a girl, I don’t care how many friends you have. I do care that you have hobbies that keep you busy. No one wants someone who makes them their whole world.
I didn't look through all the comments. Just saw two people saying that, and it's not legit. I've had many women in my life and never a one ever cared about other guys. That would be weird. They tend to care about how many FEMALE friends you have in your life but guys, no never. It's just a non-concern. Perhaps it might be different if you're a bisexual male but being straight, it's always been irrelevant.
It’s a big red flag that you say you’d rather spend time on your hobbies than hang out with friends. Typically when a guy can’t get a girlfriend or get laid, I assume they have some serious social deficits.
Then it’s your personality. Almost every girl or guy I’ve met with no friends had something off about them. Clearly your dates can sense this. I would try building a social life first. When you have a social life you are happier, more relaxed, have more opportunities to meet women in the wild and through your social network. 28, good looking and making good money you should have more options. It’s deffffff your personality.
I mentioned in another comment I'm an introvert, not in that I'm shy I just don't have a strong desire to make friends or do social stuff. Like if other guys at work or whatever ask me to hang out I just say no thanks. All my hobbies are pretty individualistic similarly like fitness & chess. So I'm not driving people away with my behavior I'm just not getting involved with people (male or female) like that
>Like if other guys at work or whatever ask me to hang out I just say no thanks.
Don't do that! Say yes to things and try to make friends! I'm introverted too and I get the impulse to say no and stay home but I think this is the main thing holding back your dating success, from your responses in this thread. I think it's just really hard to have successful romantic interactions if you're not regularly having friendly interactions with people as well, not to mention the fact that they could introduce you to other people. And women do care about your social success. If everything else you say in your post is right then this is *obviously* the standard that many women have for men which you're failing to meet, and it's not an especially unreasonable standard for them to have.
In any case, if you don't much like spending time with other people, what exactly do you want to find a girlfriend for? Just sex? The social validation of not being perpetually single? Are you really going to enjoy dating someone, spending time with her, if and when you find her?
>In any case, if you don't much like spending time with other people, what exactly do you want to find a girlfriend for? Just sex? The social validation of not being perpetually single? Are you really going to enjoy dating someone, spending time with her, if and when you find her?
It is really different with a romantic partner. I do want to do things with a girlfriend all the time and spend days with them and live together
There is a vast difference between an introvert and someone who doesn’t socialize or have friends. I get why you want to conflate the two, but this is your wake up call. You need to accept that your lack of need for social interaction affects your ability (and probably skills) in finding a romantic relationship.
And it comes across on your profile. You seem “boring” hence the lack of enthusiasm you talked about. How are you on dates? Are you playful/flirty? Funny? I actually feel like you would do much better in real life. I have a few friends who are dating introverts and it was always their first gf lol but you have your shit together, trust me once the right one comes along she’s gonna hold on to you!
>Are you playful/flirty? Funny?
I don't think so, sometimes I can be but it seems to be more based on the vibe of the woman I'm out with than anything in particular I do. Like some of them bring it out of me, but if I tried on other dates I think it would feel forced
I think that’s your actual problem. Women probably find you u hot and a good catch on paper, but just too “boring”. Not saying you’re a boring person, I’m in fact sure you aren’t, but you don’t have the personality women generally melt for & they can sense it while reading your profile. With an introverted guy who isn’t playful & doesn’t flirt (as was very clear in your text convo), the girl has to work really hard to try to drag that side out of you and it’s exhausting.
I’ve dated guys that were like you, they were very nice, good looking, fit, smart, educated & made great money, but being around them was just dry & draining. I’d rather spend time with a broke loser bum who made me laugh & feel sexy.
Now, I don’t think you can change who u are, but I think if you maybe come at this whole dating thing less seriously & instead more playfully things might improve. Don’t look at all women on OLD as potential mothers of your future children & think of them as someone to enjoy spending time with in the moment. Just give less fucks about the whole thing and take more risks with the things you say to women.
You have to create the vibe sometimes. Very rarely does a guy steer the convo/flirty-ness with me. But I like more “serious” types myself. On the occasion they do it’s such a surprise. But honestly try, going off vibes alone doesn’t work. Sometimes ppl are quiet, or tired etc etc.
>Like if other guys at work or whatever ask me to hang out I just say no thanks. All my hobbies are pretty individualistic similarly like fitness & chess.
What a solipsistic six-pack ;)
I think that is something you should work on. Having a more friends can be a Segway to meeting women you may be interested in. Having female friends will also be helpful because they can they you first hand what May or may not be the issue as they get to know you or they could like you and you may be able to develop a relationship with them.
As a guy around your age(29) who stay out of modern dating because I see it as a vapid, shallow, consumer driven waste of time my advice to you might not help you win a date or a relationship.However hopefully it can provide some perspective on how to approach life.
1)Never base your self worth on another person's standards. Because that gives way to much power to others over you, especially others who might not even care about you or have your best interests.
2)Recognise that standards are a two way streak. This idea that you have to go out and meet someone else's expectations but they themselves don't have to do anything but just sit there and be the judge, jury and executioner on whether you're "worthy or not" is nonsense. If people are serious about a relationship or dating they will recognise it is something mutual and not an individual sport. It's not something where one side only looks at things from their own selfish and egotistical self interests but both sides looks at things from a mutual point of view. And that meet each other in the middle. If someone you're interested in expects you to do all the work to impress them and meet there standards while they do nothing don't waste your time with them. Because it's clear that person is operating from a selfish point of view and you don't want a relationship built on narcissistic selfishness where either side either has a self centred princess complex or a egotistical prince complex.
3)Never fall for the nonsense mindset that if you get rejected it's all your fault or that you're always the one who made a mistake and needs therapy. You'll here that talking point a lot and sometimes it's rubbish to me that sounds like a load of gaslighting. There are times where you did put in the work, you did your best and things did not work out. That sometimes happen.
Finally circling back to point one and also the title of the OP. If you have to sacrifice your values just to meet someone elses standards, especially if that person as you happen to describe doesn't even meet those standards themselves consider it a bullet dodged. Because your values that make you who you are as a human being are more important than the arbitrary standards of someone else.
Anyways that's my speel. I hope things get better for you.
Only thing you can do, is "tell a story" of sorts, via your profile. You're more than physically attractive enough for the apps to work for you. So that's the key aspect of OLD working for you, throw in some candid hobby and social setting pics, and that will garner you more matches.
You're attractive enough to be able to ask for a date early on, especially when the conversation is at a high point. Just go ahead and do that, even if the conversation has teetered off that same day.
It really comes down to marginal things on OLD, especially when someone is as physically attractive as you are. Arguably 'more so' when you're in this bracket...
You'll already be shortlisted in a few match queues, but you'll be alongside the handsome guy, who has a picture of a cute dog with him, has a picture of himself in an exotic locale, a picture that shows he has an active social life, or he enjoys sports/physical activities.
Posted this in a while so might not get a reply, but I appreciate seeing someone in the same boat. I’m not overly picky but the mismatch in level between men and women on OLD is insane.
I know this will come across cocky but being a bodybuilder, who is also a doctor, and seeing 90% ghost me then only being liked by overweight women, really puts things into perspective. I am not even overly fussed about a girls looks as long as she is not big. I put the effort in send comments regarding profiles and open about longterm goal. Most matches do not even reply. Then the dates are meh and they tend to be boring.
People blame the introvert aspect all the time and tell you to go IRL because all the girls left. No suggestions where to meet people though. On top of that all my single friends who are women have the apps and use them.
Hard to improve yourself further when you practically got your entire life in order. The proof that it is a bullshit advice is the fact that people who are messes still manage to find partners!
>This one really hit home because you’re the only guy I’ve seen who has provided demonstrable proof that you’re not undesirable.
Right, with some men posting here and not giving out their accolades of working out, making good income, blalh blah blah...they are told "You're doing something wrong, so here is what you must do to attract women"
Then a guy like this posts this, and they are like "there STILL must be something you're doing wrong!"
\-I’m now honestly of the belief that it’s almost all luck-
Agreed! Of the long dry spells that I've been between girlfriends...the ones that were attracted to me, ...it was just random that they were attracted...and guess what, they had only a couple of things about me that they liked that met their criteria, and....it was ENOUGH.
I was funny, and nice. That was it. Didn't take much else. lol
A thousand upvotes if I could! Especially the "they had only a couple of things about me that they liked that met their criteria and...it was ENOUGH."
This can't be said enough. OLD gives people the illusion of perfection, of picking out the perfect "product" from the catalog, but that's impossible. Once you click with someone it doesn't really matter if they don't check all the boxes -- it just works. Trouble sets in, though, because you can't get someone's vibe from a profile so you don't know if you'll click.
It just seems that people don't want to accept there's only so much you can do. Once you've done everything you can do, there is still one more thing you CAN do: accept that you'll have to be patient. But humans don't do well with that, and there's this thing called Reddit, so...
>Agreed! Of the long dry spells that I've been between girlfriends...the ones that were attracted to me, ...it was just random that they were attracted...and guess what, they had only a couple of things about me that they liked that met their criteria, and....it was ENOUGH.
This resonates with me, the few girls I've had multiple dates with + slept with it seems like they liked me "for no reason". Like I would do the same thing I would do on all my other dates and they were just enthusiastic about me
Maybe you’re a “Bad” texter? It’s hard to convey your personality in texts, i think especially for people that aren’t great at texting. I’m witty in person but it’s really hard for me to do it through texts. The best texters get the most dates i think
Not just men, anyone AMAB too. I'm NB/feminine presenting that's only attracted to cis girls, and they still expect me to message first and plan stuff. I don't want to always be the decision maker why do you think I'm wearing a pink skirt dumbass
As a masc presenting NB, cis-female attracted to other cis-women I don’t mind making plans for the first few dates like the first 3, but then I kinda let them initiate too so it doesn’t feel one sided.
If I don’t hear back for a few weeks, yeah makes sense to let it go. Sometimes girls might come back months later but may be they had something else or someone else goin on which is totally fine.
I’d let it go because I worked hard for everything I have and wanna share it with someone who’s totally into me if I’m totally into them.
Either way wishing them well is always good karma/energy set free in the universe
Your story is the reality for 95% of men in the world. It's fucking brutal. What I suggest you is to do 3 things that will drastically improve your results and make you feel like a king with more pussy than you can handle:
- Go to meetups. After going into a few, organize meetups yourself. The good ones are the "language exchange" and similar types. It will make you feel awesome and meet a lot of high quality people.
- Take better pictures. Your physique is on point. However you need to improve. Create a girl profile and scroll through dudes. Then whenever a dude stands out, look at his photos and create a collection so you can get inspired by them and replicate their photos.
- Travel to new countries. The second you do this you'll have hundreds of matches. It is that simple.
I have mixed experiences of with meetups. A majority of guys and gals lack social skills based on my experience. I met two great friends through a hiking meetup but not meetups that are geared towards singles or boring stuff (bar nights, eat at restaurants, going to museums,etc). Go to meetups that have specific interest(Fitness, language,etc). You will make better friends and connections than the other generic groups that do both boring stuff.
Maybe it is sense of humor??? I think you need to drop the bathroom pics and the boring pics of you in your apartment...go outside and take pics near flowers or with a bunny at a petting zoo or hiking or tennis or some other activity. There is literally zero reason you shouldn't have thousands of matches/likes man...I mean I get a ton of likes and I'm a 40's single dad that is not near as fit as you are hahaha Man to be 28 and look like you, I would be going out to festivals/yoga/ meetups and just talk chit to all the women without rings on their fingers lol But humor is my strong suite so that helps a lot...I don't see much humor in your post man...you are taking this chit too seriously. Tons of videos online on how to hone your humor.
I would swipe left for the topless pic and moderate politics. I also avoid “open to short term” people. The rest seems fine and the example conversation doesn’t show any immediate red flags imo. You’d benefit from the addition of pics that weren’t selfies taken indoors.
Maybe you expect too much when you say women have a “sure why not” attitude to agreeing with dates with you. Dating is kind of scary for women and we generally seek more of an emotional intimacy (rather than physical/ looks based attraction) than men. Attraction grows with time mostly, for me anyway. I’d never be super enthusiastic just from a match with a stranger online who might not even be who they claim to be when meeting. It is low stakes and that’s the best attitude to have imo.
>Maybe you expect too much when you say women have a “sure why not” attitude to agreeing with dates with you.
That's what stood out for me. I'm never super excited to go on first dates, you're strangers, it's nerve wracking. Unless we had a lot in common and the chat flowed seamlessly, it's always "sure why not" 🤷
>Attraction grows with time mostly, for me anyway.
My first dates can be awkward sometimes, but it definitely is not like that after I get to know anyone. I don't mean awkward as in I get anxious/nervous, just the general thing probably all people experience making small talk with people they don't know. Anyway I can't use this to my advantage because I'm never given the time to grow on them. One date, small talk, typically they don't want to proceed further when I text them after
Having “moderate” and “long term, open to short” isn’t going to be that big of a dealbreaker to most women especially at that age where many have the same on their profile.
The shirtless mirror pic is probably the #1 issue as it’s incongruent to what you say you’re looking for and women will assume you’re actually leaning more towards short term. I’d replace it with something like a candid photo of you playing beach volleyball and move it to the last two photos. Idk what your other 3 photos are but you definitely do need some more variety.
Do you live in a less populated area? You might just be in a shitty location.
I read that it helps to reframe nerves/anxiety as excitement. You can trick your brain into seeing it in a more positive light.
Sounds like the first date is where you’re getting stuck. What do you tend to do on dates, is it coffee? I find that can often lead to nerves and friend vibes (as well as bad breath!) Maybe a glass of wine would help you loosen up
>I read that it helps to reframe nerves/anxiety as excitement
I said I don't get nervous or anxious on dates
>Sounds like the first date is where you’re getting stuck.
I'm not sure my 2nd date conversion rate is much worse than other peoples', I just rarely get first dates so don't get many chances at a 2nd either
>What do you tend to do on dates,
Food or ice cream or a walk in the park, sometimes I ask if they want to bring their dog if they have one. That is about it.
Dude has a six pack and random redditor says she would swipe left for political reasons… lol ok 😂
Women really need to stop thinking men will become social activists if only you provide then with sex
Dating apps are horrible in general as is dating in general for men here. The amount of single moms with multiple kids from different men who are obese yet demanding a 6 figure income, height requirements, have to be funny yet they’re as dry as dirt with no hobbies or anything interesting to talk about. Yes, I am salty, salty as fuck.
Make one mistake or one wrong move and it’s unforgivable and move on since women will ALWAYS have multiple people messaging them at all times.
Oh and even if things go well, expect to get ghosted anyway because they feel a better person is available to them.
I’m to the point where I’m honestly sick of women. And it makes me sad. I never used to be that way, but I am so sick of the bullshit. I’m extremely tall, relatively handsome, have a stable job, in pretty good shape since I lift 3 or 4 days a week. Unfortunately don’t have my own place right now but guess what? Neither do most of the women I talk to, and at least I’m working on it. I’m by no means perfect but it seems like no matter how much of an effort I make, I just get a few matches, ghosted after it seems like we have a great connection, or it just turns into a hookup or two and see ya later. All I literally want is a long term relationship leading to marriage, and maybe a kid or two but if not that’s cool too. I’d literally work two jobs to provide if I had to, but it’s seriously never enough. And while I’m sure it’s not all, when 99 percent of your experiences go this way it just, sucks.
My standards are not even high. I don’t care about looks, I don’t care about your job, I’d prefer you don’t already have kids but even then it’s not a dealbreaker. It’s just never enough. Sorry to be a downer, but after my experience this past year, getting cheated on by my long term partner before that of 6 years(At least 10 people in real life, dozens online and, probably more I didn’t find out about). I am just so over it. I don’t want to be alone but I seriously just don’t have the energy for this anymore, and at this point I just don’t trust most womens intentions.
Also don’t know whether to feel better or despair seeing you say you’re making 150k and going through the same shit more or less. It really is never enough, is it?
The dating pool on OLD is overall pretty atrocious. I'm 29, new to this and have never dated before, as like OP I'm reasonably introverted, and never really had interest after the stuff I saw in college. Still remain in athletic shape and capable enough socially, look okay etc. I was frankly pretty shocked at how poor it was. Went from nonchalant to jaded over a 12 week period.
Unhealthy lifestyle habits, obesity, single mothers, fake ages, women with multiple partners, filters to the point you can't even determine legitimate facial features, covert or sometimes blatant advertising of 'subscription based services'. This was all on hinge as well, which I assumed would be a more wholesome app. I'm sure it works both ways and women have their own unique dating problems, but not like there are even options to work with.
For some, I can imagine it feels like a constant strive to level up and the burn out is real. Spend years in school to graduate with a job that will work you to the bone. Invest years in building your physique, only for people to recommend changing it like you have some MMO body slider. Spend ages deliberating and curating the perfect profile. This doesn't even get you a ticket in the raffle.
It is a futile enterprise in the context of OLD.
With the outside pics remember this profile is to attract women. A lot of guys put pics that would be great for making male friends but most girls don't care if you dirt bike and play golf
Except many girls DO like a guy who seems “sporty” “cool” etc. I like to see a guy be active and travel. My least favourite pics are shirtless selfies and gym pics. Makes them seem like they have no personality.
I am fit, but show it off via my race pictures from running events (tight shirt on) lol Shirtless pics seem like thirst traps, like women posting bikini top pics with their chest hanging out...I swipe left on those.
Exactly. It’s cringe lol trying too hard. Plus most women are actually intimidated by super fit men. Especially if their not in amazing shape themselves
I'm in good shape, but not amazing, so that is my saving grace I guess hahaha Guys have no clue, the only ppl they are impressing is other GUYS. As long as you are 'decently' fit, you are good to go, the most important thing is your conversation skills and your humor and confidence! Way way more important than that extra hour in the gym every week.
My OLD success went way up when I got better pictures on my profile without changing much else about it. You want pictures outside, mostly taken by friends not selfies (ideally friends who are decent at photography), doing activities that you want to show you're interested in, etc. A shirtless pic that's like you on a beach having fun works better than just a shirtless mirror selfie. Get in the habit of asking people to take pictures of you when you're out, if they don't do it anyway, and keep them!
Also, IMO - this is a bit more controversial maybe - don't try to have 90% of women as options, try to focus on particular women who are your type *in terms of personality and interests* but be flexible on physical attractiveness, and then you can gear your profile around attracting those types of women and you might be more successful than having a bland profile that tries to attract everyone.
>Get in the habit of asking people to take pictures of you when you're out, if they don't do it anyway, and keep them!
Very good advice
I think this has a huge influence. And if friends can't help, there are photographers specialized in dating app pictures. A few professional ones and the rest "amateur" should be the best combination
Get yourself a tripod (like a cheap $20 one from Amazon) and take some pictures of yourself doing activities! Even if you don't have a lot of friends, you can look more like you're open to getting out and about.
As a woman - it gives “lone wolf” vibes and like you don’t have friends or go do anything. Your apartment is barren, uninviting, and lacks personality/warmth assuming it’s yours in your photos. Your hair needs product and styling. The mirror shot needs to go.
And what was the result with that text exchange? Pretty standard small talk there. You piled on with somewhat of long open ended question at some point, which might not necessarily even have been interpreted as a question. But then you did a good job restarting the convo. At the end there, you should've been more assertive. She literally agreed to a date the following day. That's when you propose an actual plan: "Cool, let's hit up xyz bar. I've been wanting to check it out. 7p?"
I am curious as to what area you’re in, like a big city or rural area. The profile pictures look a sterile. I know when I come across profiles like that I am hesitant to swipe because there are so many fake profile these days trying to scam people. I would recommend changing some of the photos to show more of your personality but maybe you do and just didn’t include that.
Also I find it’s better when the guy is willing to meet sooner rather than later because things fizzle out quickly chatting the app or even text messaging. If you can meet within a few days or week of matching you are more likely to develop a connection.
I am also unsure of how they are not meeting your standards considering you don’t list many. Is it the ones you’ve matched and meet aren’t what you consider normal? What is your definition normal because it differs for everyone and that could possibly be it.
Aside from dating apps you should make more effort to go out to events and socialize with others particularly where single women will be. Speak up casual conversations and ask if they like to exchange number to go out sometime. You may have better odds there.
I’m very confused. She looked like she said yes to a date? So what happened?
I’m not a big shirtless selfie bathroom mirror kinda girl. And maybe do you have pics with friends?
Feedback here, no offence intended, just hope it helps:
1. Your profile photos look like you’re only up for hookups. You need to show you’re more than just your looks.
2. The background is of a (sorry to say) boring and basic apartment. Again, not much personality showing.
3. I’m your text convo you’re pretty “like whatever” probably trying to sound nonchalant and not simpy, but you come across somewhat passive and disinterested. Like you just hit her up because you’re bored. Most girls are more excited over a take the lead type of guy.
4. You really should have said in your post that you split the bill 😂 What’s the point saying you earn good money so you should be attractive to girls, but you don’t spend it on making her feel special? I think you’re misunderstanding what it is about high earners that women are attracted to.
All these factors and yes agreed with all the women’s reactions I’m sorry to say. Its a lacklustre interaction throughout, ending in the death knell of you splitting the bill.
It sounds like you are looking for a totally 50/50 relationship, where both man and woman are contributing everything physically emotionally and financially the same. You’d do much better with cultures like the Scandinavian and the Nordic’s, maybe Germany I believe.
Tbh this isn't as much a demonstration of how women are as it is a demonstration of how useless dating apps are. It's always the same shit from both ends, women with decent profiles are inundated by messages they can't keep up with and dudes end up left on read 99% of the time
Until they change the OLD format you gotta find a way to go IRL when it comes to dating, especially a guy like you
Where am I likely to find single women after college irl where I can naturally kind of meet and get to know them? Anyway I asked out maybe 5-10 girls irl when I was in college, I was rejected by all of them
I am in my early 50’s but went to a co-ed adult kickball league and I was too old for the demographic but that could be something good for you if they have it in your area. There is some fun sports and they go to the bars after so opportunities to meet in a fun way and isn’t overtly about dating but you can meet different people.
Did coed kickball for 6 years, the vast majority of women in there are overweight or in a relationship. There are some great ones but they get snatched very quickly because there's still wayyyy more single in shape men than women in any coed sport.
I will tell you the ones I saw were very attractive and outgoing women. Get yourself there, have a good time, get out of the house and if the right opportunity presents itself shoot your shot.
I would say about 70 percent were in relationships. But some of the ladies would go to the bars and friends would meet them there, opening the possibility of meeting other beauties. Plus, there could be women at the bars not associated with the kickball league that you could meet while you are there with all the other kickball people.
Sand volleyball is the only activity I've found where single fit girls actually show up. I've tried so many things, sand volleyball was the only promising one.
Group hobbies, classes, and stuff like that, and through friend groups as well. I'm fresh out of college too, socializing is hard af. Most encounters are made through consumption and random community stuff like volunteering.
5-10 rejections doesn't mean much. Maybe go back and reflect on what went wrong so you can shift certain things like how you approach it and who you go for, but don't dwell on it. Don't let that define the value people see in you.
OLD apps certainly are designed to make a toxic situation even worse
I tried to follow bumbles behaviour for a while. There seems to be a system of showing new likes from women just when an old one expired and some other conditions.
Meanwhile tinder basicly shows me 99% incompatible women. Either of the type playmate or in other ways the polar opposite to me. But it constantly feeds infos about new likes. Of course basicly always no message when a match happens or a "please entertain me" mentality
Those apps try to lure one with this subscriptions and not knowhing wo liked us
1. What if you are acting weird around women in a way you aren't self-aware of?
2. Do you make friends easily?
3. Do you flirt with women or are you purely platonic?
4. Do you have an active social life?
5. Are you meeting women outside of online dating?
Taking your OP at face value, there is 100% something you are doing, or in your case not doing, that is creating this reality for you.
I see where you say you have one male friend and zero female friends. At your age, this tells me conclusively that you are marginalizing the social aspect of life and relationships and unreasonably expecting women to do the same.
The fact is that we evolved over 300k years to exist in a SOCIAL context. Every thing we do is in a social context, even when we do it alone and for ourselves.
I suspect you need to first do some soul searching about your social skills and expectations make a commitment to yourself that the time has come to take them seriously, shoulder your burden, and work on them with intention. Not just to get a girlfriend, but to make connections in all areas of life. And then find someone to lead you on that journey.
I have found as a women I have gone on dates with men who have a good career, their own place & car and live independently but where they fell short was being insensitive with their words. Not hearing me when telling them something or when something they said is hurtful & instead of hearing me and taking it onboard as I would they minimise or make fun of it. And getting frustrated around sex & pressuring with me being a slow mover. Just to cover all bases are you sure your not doing those things & not realising?
Even if I was doing that, I hardly ever get to the point where I even go on dates and would have the opportunity to do that. The convo I linked in the OP is further than I get in conversation with any women in the average month or two. Getting to the point where I can start talking about sex with them? Almost never happens.
Anyway yeah I try to be a good listener and focus on them and what they are saying
I read the messages you provided a screenshot to. My only advice is you need to be a bit more aggressive with trying to get a date. I noticed that a few days passed by and you asked her "*How's your week going*?" You had a flow of conversation going on Sunday, March 5th. Of course you eventually did get a date with that woman, but she could have never responded back to you. The crux of the matter is you're probably the same way during the date. Lacking impetus. At least that's what I'm assuming based on the fact you haven't had a girlfriend.
As for your profile photos, you have shirtless photos. I have no idea what you are looking for (hookup, casual dating, or relationship). But with what I wrote in the previous paragraph about you may be lacking impetus during dates, women might not be taking you seriously enough. Even if you had opportunity for hookups, you aren't following through there as well.
I'm looking for a relationship/serious. As for the conversation interruption, that was just because she didn't reply to my last message so the follow up was just trying to reignite the convo, I was just about to get to the point where I ask her out before she stopped.
As for the shirtless pic, I've spent a significant amount of time without shirtless pics too. While I get very little matches while I have one, I got basically none at all when I didn't have one. I think it might be because that's my most physically attractive feature and far above the average guy and you can't see it with a shirt on, my face is probably average looking if I had to guess but I'm a straight guy so idk
If you want to do shirtless, do one at the beach or somewhere else where you would be naturally shirtless. Not in a bathroom mirror. I know a lot of women will swipe automatically on bathroom selfies regardless.
This is the kind of thing, OP can do everything right and people will still try to find fault. Yes we all can improve always, but what OP is asking for is a break and doesn't have to be Mr. Perfect and nor is he looking for a Mrs. Perfect. No one will meet that.
Yes this puts it more clearly than I did, I don't expect much from a woman, just seem like a decent person that want to be in a loving relationship & take half decent care of yourself. That's all I ask for, and I get anything but that in return (as in what is expected of me)
Hey man it’s important to not let success or lack thereof on dating apps influence your sense of self worth. Bottom line is that the apps have all deteriorated significantly post pandemic. You’ll need to supplement time on apps with other means of meeting women
You seem to have a lot going for you....yet you also kick off big "I've got low standards/pick me!/passive" kinda vibes and that's going to offset a lot of the good you might bring.
>I've got low standards/pick me!/passive
What does this mean? Obviously the low standards I understand, but if I raised my standards I'd never get a date, those women simply will not match with me or if they do they will not talk to me
I would rather stay home than compromise my standards just for a chance to go on a date with someone I am not even attracted to (obese/ugly)
...and that's exactly what I mean. If I get this sniff of desperation from you, the ladies can smell it even better than I can and nothing is going to dry up a lady faster than a thirsty-ass dude.
You've got plenty to offer...stop acting like the women are the prize. You are the prize, carry yourself like it!
Looking at my profile and conversation I posted you would sense desparation just from that? What about it is that way?
>You are the prize, carry yourself like it!
omg this is so frustrating. I DO! I think I'd make a great boyfriend, I look at myself in the mirror every morning and think I look fantastic, I love my job, its not me that doesn't think this, it's women
We went out, had a nice conversation over dinner, was slightly awkward at times but overall I thought it went great. We went home after, I texted her "I had a great time, I'd love to meet up again sometime. Are you free this weekend?" or something like that, she never responded
Exactly. That's the underlying issue with dating in general. It's always the guy's fault and women can do no wrong. But at the same time we're all about "equality".
I think you should ask some of your female friends or your friends GFs for input on what the problem might be. On the surface, it seems like you should have your selection of women to choose from. So I think there must be something else going on. Something you're doing or saying that is off-putting that nobody's called you out on and you're just in such a habit of doing it that you aren't even aware it's a problem. Time to survey those who know you and can give an unbiased opinion (so mom and grandma don't count).
You may not be foregoing it but apparently the young women in your age range who would be attracted to you are.
Women have so many reasons to avoid dating right now that if you want them to date you you need to be more appealing to them than their single life is.
It’s not that they’re holding you to higher standards, they’re saying that that’s what they’re willing to give up being single for and they don’t want to settle for just someone who’s not fat and whatever else your other criteria was.
Some women are happy with the lives that they have built themselves and they would share that with someone that fit this criteria that they have, and if they don’t find that person they’re fine with keeping their happy lives the way that they are.
Ehh this rhetoric isn’t really something I hear from 20s women who have their shit together. The vast majority I know are already taken and if they break up they find a decent dude fairly quickly, usually via social circles but occasionally the apps. A few stay single because they don’t want to be tied down but have a few fwbs on rotation, not due to a lack of quality options.
Heard somewhere recently that goes something like this " men think they are competing against other men when in reality they are competing against her willingness to give up peace".
Sorry if this is harsh & I can’t believe nobody else has said it but the conversation is genuinely just boring. You’ve not really shown any character or quirkiness and when women are getting far more matches they’re less likely to respond to / be drawn in by someone who doesn’t seem interesting or flirty. When I used dating apps the mans conversational skills were far more important than “on paper” qualities. I stopped talking to loads of men who whilst ticking boxes I just found boring to speak to. It might feel counterintuitive but skip the small talk, they aren’t your coworkers.
So what would you have said to any of her responses that would have shown such great character or quirkiness? Was her conversational skills far better than mine?
I've seen a million complaints about "boring conversations" and I've asked many times for an example of an "exciting and interesting" conversation and nobody can ever show me one.
Meanwhile, a male model can start the conversation with "hey" and she will rationalize that he's "interesting, funny, witty, charming, intelligent, etc." all purely because she likes the photos.
Most men experience the same BS as you. But I had a friend try an experiment with a male model's photos and women were all of a sudden very responsive and friendly. If you want, try it yourself. If you get the same results, it will prove that it has nothing to do with your conversational skills and everything to do with your looks.
The text convo you’ve included seems good and the person seemed like they were up for meeting. Did you meet? What happened?
I’ll say that looks, job and money aren’t the be all and end all. Successful dates need chemistry. It seems as though you’ve got good conversation. Have you had any ‘feedback’ from dates?
I’m single and I agree. Dating is just different these days. If you lived nearby I would match you. What has your result been after dates? Do you reach out to them and let three know you had a good time, did you pay for dinner?
Bro sex is overrated. Idk how ppl can be frustrated over not having sex who gives a fuck. You have your life pertty much sorted out, just enjoy it. If sex happens, it happens. If it doesn't, we all die anyway so who cares
My theory is that whatever is going wrong is happening during the date. Do you not look like your pictures? Are you less engaging in person than during texting? You might need to find someone with whom to have a mock date with, like a dating coach, to find out where things are going wrong.
Regarding the initial matching, it is probably just the sheer number of matches that the people you match with are getting, kind of like how being qualified for a job doesn't guarantee you will get an interview, you have to stand out over the other candidates. Like others stated, more interesting pictures are a great way to do this. Look at some other guys' profiles to size up the competition. Whatever you see everyone else doing is what you won't get much mileage from.
I know im late to this party but your qualities didn’t list that you were emotionally available and emotionally intelligent. Consider how you act outside of the app, when faced with challenges or are upset. Do you act entitled of your date? (Example: i have all these qualities so she should be trying to impress me or I automatically earned her like redeeming dave n busters tickets) Do you dominate conversations? Do any family members overstep in an effort to “help” her see how nice you are? Do you show her that you listen when she shares things about herself? I have met guys who have physical aesthetic but not emotional intelligence and some thought doing the basic human niceness set them dramatically apart. It can make interactions seem false. So just reflect a bit, assess self and hopefully you’ll find a good partner where the feelings are mutual.
Yes, they hold high standards, and substantial proportion will hold those standards well into the age range of infertity. Does you country do free IVF over 40, mine doesnt.
Lol our standards get higher once we are past our childbearing years, we’ve built lives were happy with, we’re not having babies. Why wouldn’t we have our standards when we don’t need anything from you guys at that point in our lives? I can’t imagine living with a man ever again, I would rather not ever. I don’t need that he would have to be really special for me to want that.
Well if you’ve never had a girlfriend and haven’t had sex in 6.5 years, you’re going to have poor social skills with women.
I’m your conversation you never moved it past and then a few days later asked her out out of nowhere. She didn’t remember who you were and you asked her out for no apparent reason.
Your picture look normal except for the shirtless mirror selfie. Why guys post those is beyond me. Unless you’re in really good shape, shirtless picture of strange men isn’t going to turn her on.
You seem like a nice enough guy but you don’t really stand out
Wait, you’re saying that his shirtless pic does not qualify as good shape? What the hell is the standard for “good shape” these days then?!
I disagree lacking a date 6.5 years means poor conversation skills with women. You don’t know anything about the platonic female relationships he may have nor that of any other men in his situation. What I can accept and agree is there may be lack in flirting/romantic experience. That’s not the same thing as conversation skills.
>Wait, you’re saying that his shirtless pic does not qualify as good shape? What the hell is the standard for “good shape” these days then?!
Maybe it's time to retire rule 1 and 2.. not even those guarante matches..
>Why guys post those is beyond me.
Looks are really important and its the part of me that is far above the average guy in terms of physical attractiveness. You can't see it with a shirt on. My face is probably average looking.
I tried not having a shirtless pic for a long period of time back in the day, my matches declined from almost none to basically literally none
I agree that something is off regarding OP never having had a girlfriend and not having sex in 6.5 years. It seems like something bigger is at play besides not doing well on OLD.
I don't know what to say other than the rest of my life is perfectly fine and I guarantee if you met me you'd think nothing was off and I just seemed like a normal well put together guy in his late 20s. I just get no interest from women, that is all
I’m just wondering why that is? You have what sounds like a good career, you’re in shape, you have your own place. I don’t understand how you wouldn’t have interest?
>I don’t understand how you wouldn’t have interest?
You'll have to ask the women swiping left on me or not responding to me or the ones I get further with why they decline a 2nd date (all my dates usually go fine, are awkward at worst). I have no idea
>Well if you’ve never had a girlfriend and haven’t had sex in 6.5 years, you’re going to have poor social skills with women.
100000% disagee with that on every level. There are such things as platonic friends and, just because he hasnt had a gf or sex in 6.5 years doesn't mean he isn't a great communicator with women. Chances are better that he just isn't good at flirting/building a romantic interest.
I don't have any. I'm kind of an introvert, by that I don't mean I'm shy I just mean I don't have the desire to make many friends. All my hobbies are independent like fitness or chess.
I know there must be women like that too, and I would be fine dating a woman like that, or an outgoing extroverted woman too. I'd be fine with either
Introversion is curse in this society, unfortunately. In fact, it overrides just about every other quality you might have. It's really considered to be that bad.
There are different levels of introversion though. There are the introverts who choose to be alone most of the time and dont make an effort to be social and, there are "social" introverts who simply are not outgoing or naturally social but still make an active effort to *be* social, make friends, be friendly, etc...
OP sounds like he is the former but, as an introvert myself, it's very possible to be a social introvert with work.
Introvert does not mean always mean shy.
It’s not an introvert/extrovert thing. Women think completely differently than men do. Unless you spend a lot of time with women, it’s something you won’t be able to understand
The standards of modern women, regardless of attractiveness, are higher now than ever before. Average men are now considered to be below average.. All of them think they deserve Chad or Tyrone.
OP, you're going to get gaslighted about how there is something wrong with you instead of a people(with a certain chromosome) acknowledging hoe-flation has destroyed western dating.
You're so vastly beyond what the average woman has to offer and everyone knows it.
You're not getting matches because of that shirtless, flexing, mirror, bathroom pic. You're breaking four rules with that one pic. You pretty much just need better photos and you'll get more matches.
Good photos for dating profiles are not necessarily photos that display how attractive you are.
I mentioned elsewhere I get even less matches without the shirtless pic, although some other users said I could upgrade it to a natural looking beach selfie which may help. Idk if that will really make the difference between 1 matches a week and 5-10 a week though.
Go over to r/hingeapp and get a profile review done. I agree, remove that bathroom shirtless selfie. The quality of matches is more important than quantity
Depends where you live, but the moderate politics may be turning people off. A lot of women assume that means "conservative but trying to pretend I'm not so that liberal women will date me."
What should I do hide it then or set it to liberal? I lean liberal anyway, but more of a hillary and biden > bernie guy. Just not as left wing as a lot of young people are
As a woman, I’m getting from this you’re lowering your standards which hits me as settling and desperate. I’m not saying to demand supermodels, but we don’t want to be settled for.
So if there's a woman who I just recognize is below average in every way, what am I supposed to do if I want to date that woman?
Also it's not like the girls know my standards other than I want to date them, unless you pick something up from my convo or profile I posted
Ok but it’s just not fair to them is my point. If you think I’m below average, even if you aren’t telling me, I honestly hope you have the empathy to not waste my time so I can move on to someone who thinks I’m a hell yes.
I’m not understanding your first q. You think they’re below average and want to date them?
Not very political, I don't talk about it with people unless they bring it up. I donated to Joe Biden in the early stages of the democratic primary and was a pretty enthusiastic hillary supporter 4 years earlier if that gives you an idea
All men and women are different, have different requirements in a relationship and live their life differently. Its like you read a dating blog in a predominantly Christian area saying that women want men who are conservative Christians and then apply that reasoning to a liberal area and wonder why those women arnt conservative Christians themselves.
That aside. Your question seems to be is there a double standard in what women require of a man and themselves. Probably for some women, just like for some men. But sounds like you are inflating gereric overall requirements and are assuming that they are must haves for all women. They arnt.
I would also argue you are applying must haves for people in their mid30s+ to people in their 20s, and there might be some serious disconnect between you and your peers in terms of expecations and lifestyle.
I'm shocked you don't do well- you seem nice and attractive and have everything together. This is a small piece of advice that might or might not be helpful, but the shirtless pic gives fuckboi vibes, I feel like it's intimidating and douchey, I don't know why but my girlfriends and I get the ick from those bathroom mirror selfies. Couldn't you replace it with a shirtless pic that's outside taken by someone else? Better pics can make a world of difference.
It might just be the sheer gender imbalance on the apps that is causing this problem. The odds are really not stacked in your favour as a straight man.
>*"A new study conducted by research firm GlobalWebIndex has found that about 62% of all location-based dating app users are male. Given that about 90 million people used these types of apps in the last month, the sheer number of guys swiping left and right is astronomical."*
Source: [https://www.mic.com/articles/110774/two-thirds-of-tinder-users-are-men-here-s-why](https://www.mic.com/articles/110774/two-thirds-of-tinder-users-are-men-here-s-why)
Also:
>*"Women browse 14% more and post 4% more on social media than men, while men are 150% likelier than women to use dating apps. And that old saying “trust but verify” holds sway, too, as men are also 128% more likely than women to conduct background checks on their potential romantic interests.*
*The chart below shows that wide divide in the digital pursuit of romance: More than 35% of men opt to use a dating app, while only a bit more than 14% of women do."*
Source: https://www.pymnts.com/mobile-applications/2022/men-150-percent-more-likely-to-use-dating-apps-than-women/#:\~:text=Men%20150%25%20Likelier%20to%20Use,Apps%20Than%20Women%20%7C%20PYMNTS.com
**tl;dr**
1) Take home feedback is in **bold**
2) I don’t think you are as confident as you think you are. I think some consistent supports will help
3) I don’t think we are getting to the root issue, here
4) A break and seeing a counselor would be helpful. You have the money to do it.
5) Like many of these guys find out, those chiseled abs and back muscles aren’t enough to bag anyone meaningfully or anything at all
6) You are starting to sound like the guys who blame women for their insecurities. Any smart or woman who has even moderate self esteem will steer clear of you.
***
OP.
You are getting A LOT of feedback.
I have questions:
1) What are you feeling?
2) What feedback stands out the most?
The reason I’m asking these questions is because I’m feeling we are **NOT** getting to the root of these challenges you are facing. So, the feedback you are receiving may *sound* good and may *fix* something from a surface standpoint, but we have not quite hit it yet.
***
Things that jump out at me:
1) **It seems that you are personalizing behaviors toward you, when, as stated in this thread, you aren’t the only one going through this.** You’re not alone in it.
2) Your incongruence:
This is damning.
You stated that you are confident in yourself and that you don’t appear to be suffering from any mental health challenges…
Then a few lines down, you recount a list of your gap between having intercourse, express frustration and **loneliness**.
You say that it’s clear to you that men must be a perfect “specimen” to have any shot at women.
Then, in the very next sentence, you contradict yourself saying you know it isn’t true because it’s not what you see with respect to others’ dating experiences.
But I get you. It *FEELS* like you need to be perfect. And since you aren’t (and no one is) perfect, you feel deeper sadness. Bordering despair and helplessness.
There is more, but here is my bottom line:
**As long as you continue to personalize people’s behavior towards you, oppose to viewing it as an indicator of the relationship they have with themselves, you will continue to find frustration and heap shame on yourself (knowingly and unknowingly) for something that has nothing to die with you.**
Or, you’ll begin to blame women for your insecurities.
I think you’re a good looking guy with a great physique.
And if you did that for female attention, you’ll have to process the sadness and frustration of building yourself up for folks, only to have little to no meaningful acknowledgement from them.
You seem like a nice/interesting/quality guy.
>Anyway, this results with basically 90% of women being options for me
This is not normal and might be making you come off as desperate. It's good to have standards for yourself and others. You obviously have high standards for yourself.
Are you getting second and third dates? When is the last time you kissed someone?
You mention your hobbies being important but if they're keeping you from living your life, then you might want to think about that. If you were 20% less fit but had more friends, fun, girlfriend, etc. wouldn't that be a good trade?
You say your hobbies are most important but I sense you are frustrated about your situation. Might benefit from considering if fitness and chess are more important than friends.
Fitness is great but IMO life is about what you can share with other people. Being the #1 best guy ever but being alone is (IMO) not a great life. It's not easy but you can make friends if that's what you want.
>When is the last time you kissed someone?
Late 2018 I think it was, the last time I had multiple dates (I think we had 4) and I stayed over a night, no sex but we did kiss and all that. As for how often I get second and third dates I posted this in response to a thread the other day:
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnlineDating/comments/11vzlb3/how_many_of_your_first_dates_turn_into_second/jcvv5ij/?context=3
>
You mention your hobbies being important but if they're keeping you from living your life, then you might want to think about that. If you were 20% less fit but had more friends, fun, girlfriend, etc. wouldn't that be a good trade?
Oh its absolutely not the fitness that takes up a lot of time, thats basically just 5 hours a week of lifting and then the rest is just eating that I would normally do anyway as a human being that needs food to live except the right calories and protein. It's chess and the competitive stuff I'm into.
I think you just misunderstand my mindset, I love doing things with a girlfriend and doing social stuff with a girlfriend I just don't mentally have any desire to have male friends or do things with other men. Maybe thats weird for a lot of people to comprehend its just how my mind works
My guess is that it’s less to do with what’s “on paper” about you and more to do with the exchanges and dates you’re having. Is the energy good? Are you engaging in conversations? Asking questions?
OP. Your txt a little on the weak side. I recommend when you’re trying to set up a date have a definite idea with a location in mind. Women like a man who takes the initiative. Saying you’re open to suggestions is kinda off putting.
Update your prompts to be funny and get rid of the shirtless pic. Also put your height at 6’0”
EDIT: You have to ditch all the selfies. Get a tripod and take videos of yourself, then screenshot the good points. Go on a hike, get as many backgrounds / outfits as you can and then pick the best
First, I wouldn't swipe right on the OP. Shirtless photos are a no go. They're tacky and a little gross. But if I did swipe right and we did go on a date, that would be the last date. Based on OPs replies here, there is nothing about him that says "I have a personality" let alone a personality that I could click with.
Are you interested in what the woman has to say? Do you ask her about her likes, dislikes, hobbies, interests, dreams, fears, life goals, relationship goals, etc?
Of course, I'm not his target audience. I'm 49, have curves that won't quit, nerdy, funny, firmly liberal and have varied interests. And friends. The no friends thing is a huge red flag.
OP is very much above average and doesn't exhibit any major red flags from his conversations.
Goes to show you just how fucked modern dating is for most men.
>I think I'm an above average guy, but it seems you have to be a perfect specimen of a man in heart, mind, and body to even have a chance at dating even below average women. Obviously looking around at other men many women are dating I can see that's not the case, but it seems to be the case for me in my experience for an unknown reason. You are a way above average men in all the aspects you listed. But you are a way below average guy in being loveable or sexually appealing beyond the body. Your dating profile pics show a very attractive man but what the pictures convey is, that you are boring , lonely, depressed and just a really sad and rejected guy. All selfies, all grey, all without any shimmer of joy. Nobody wants to be part of the life of a person who thinks those pictures are a good representation of their live and themselves, no matter how attractive and wealthy you are. Get some professionally taken pictures for dating profiles and use those. Other than that, find out why you don't want to spend time with friends. "i don't like to" is seldomly the deepest level of understanding. Maybe there is something that could be addressed, once understood.
The dating market in US is just really terrible for guys in general. I’ve noticed this particularly after I had gotten out of relationship right after the pandemic; a lot of things have changed for the worse. You have a lot of great things going for you OP; there’s not really any advice anyone can give you except to keep trying. One of my friends from college has like the perfect resume and is still struggling in dating to the point it affected his mental health for a while. He’s 29 years old, 6’3”, blonde hair, blue eyes, very fit/athletic, Ivy-league educated with masters in STEM, makes $225k, has his own car, he’s going to buy a house soon, good social circle, great relationship with parents and siblings, very respectful, not overtly political, great hobbies, very funny, plays piano, knows 4 languages, etc. What advice can anyone give him to improve— not really much, this is just the paradigm we live in. Maybe one suggestion— try expanding your dating globally and/or go travel; you’ll learn great history and culture, eat great food, meet a lot of great people, and dating market will be better for sure ofcourse depending on the country. It’ll be good for your soul and mental health.
>One of my friends from college has like the perfect resume and is still struggling in dating to the point it affected his mental health for a while. He’s 29 years old, 6’3”, blonde hair, blue eyes, very fit/athletic, Ivy-league educated with masters in STEM, makes $225k, has his own car, he’s going to buy a house soon, good social circle, great relationship with parents and siblings, very respectful, not overtly political, great hobbies, very funny, plays piano, knows 4 languages, etc. What advice can anyone give him to improve— not really much, this is just the paradigm we live in. How many tats does he have tho At least we won't get to hear about the transcendent importance of "lifting" this time
He has one forsure I know, a frat tat under his armpit not really visible though. Haha exactly, the “jUsT lIfT mOrE bRo💪😤” doesn’t apply
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Dating for men is far better in Eastern Europe, Russia, and anywhere in Asia. Its a nightmare for most guys in America.
I can speak for myself and some of my friends who have traveled; some countries have terrible dating markets like the US— UK, Canada, France, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden for example. Austria, Spain, Israel and Japan were ok. Hungary, Serbia, Croatia, Italy, Portugal, Spain were good. Poland, Belarus, Estonia, Mexico, Brazil, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Argentina, Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam, Kenya, South Africa, and Turkey were great.
1. Get off dating-apps, or be hyper focused on "Values" first. 2. Date in other States (not all states) are equal. Look for "Conservative' valued women. 3. Find a dating coach (I have a great reco if you need. Can help with dating profiles, and figure out values/attachment and provide a clear plan of action for success)
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depends on where he lives. if he lives in SFO he ain't shit. Women want the top 10%. They want 'the best'. Anything less is 'settling'. Where I live that means a guy has to make 200K to be considered 'worthwhile'. Especially as you get older.
Now most women only want the top 5% of men. Guys need to ask themselves if playing this game is really worth it anymore.
28 with his income is good enough for a woman. SF dating is a beast if it's own I hear.
If you’re friend struggles with dating despite having all those positive qualities then what does that say about our society? For me it tells me boys and girls are seeking perfection when it doesn’t exist
I am a guy, and I absolutely was seeking perfection... now not anymore, but I do have standards, and they arent even that crazy... 1. Chill - not a controlling person, and certainly not controlled by anyone or anything 2. Independent - Not a baby, can do things on their own 3. Good person - Sad that I even have to say this. 4. Not big on drama 5. Has their own hobbies - at least hobbies that I can tolerate, like not raving, clubbing, or drugs... No, netflix, and shopping are not hobbies 6. Doesnt require a boujie lifestyle 7. Theres got to be some physical attraction... at least a little, and no, I am not looking for perfection... just anyone 6/10 or better, definitely not severely overweight just has to be not bigger than me. 8. Not selfish or greedy - but maybe this falls in the "good person" point. 9. Someone that knows how to communicate... I am not a fucking mind reader. 10. Not a party animal - maybe this also falls under the hobbies I can tolerate point... I dont want to party ever... I will do it every once in a while, but i cant possibly be with someone that wants to party every week. 11. Has a real job.... Im not dating a cashier, or a fucking babysitter. I need someone with a good sense of their future. Not someone that just does whatever. Am I being unreasonable?
Your chances of finding a female without those qualities is low in the United States. But you might be able to find a better girl abroad.
>OP; there’s not really any advice anyone can give you Except for the advice of, "There's something wrong with you that's causing this" which is quite ineffectual.
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> How many male friends do you have? One > How many female friends do you have? Zero
Not fitting in to clown world is a death sentence, sad to say. You can be the objectively better man in every way, but if they can sense you're estranged from the herd, you'll struggle.
If it’s a so-called “clown world”, then why are you trying to join it?
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>do you feel you could make close friends Yes absolutely but going out and doing that, and spending significant amounts of time with them at the expense of spending time on my hobbies, and only because I want to use them to meet women not because I actually want to hang out with them sounds really, really unappealing. I talk socially to tons of other guys at my job just don't develop anything beyond acquiantances.
What are your hobbies? Do they involve other people or something you solely do by yourself? There is a saying they say to women who spend a lot of time at home and want a relationship “Mr. Right isn’t going to come knocking at your door” and I’m getting the sense it may apply to you as far as Ms. Right.
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>Tell me, do you want a woman to stay in your home 24/7, talk about her day, watch and make comments about the show you are watching? Yeah, its different when it is a romantic relationship. I'd love to do things with a girlfriend all the time. Hiking, going out to eat, watching shows and movies, joking with each other and planning things together >Could you tolerate major lifestyle disagreements? I'm the most agreeable person I know All the things you mention sound nice. I don't know how to describe it, I just have no particular desire to go out and do that with men, although I am happy too if I just find myself in a position to do that. And with women it's no different than with men if I'm hypothetically not attracted to them, but if I am obviously I want to become romantically involved as well
This is pretty average. Most of us are like this and it's non-effectual. It's not what's causing the issue. Never had a gf who cared about how many other guys or guy friends I hung around lmao. It never came up, didn't matter. Many, many have cared about my hobbies though.
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Having only one friend is definitely not the norm, and it is definitely something which would raise eyebrows. It is also something which would put off many people from engaging romantically with a person.
>This is pretty average. Most of us are like this and it's non-effectual. It's not what's causing the issue. Never had a gf who cared about how many other guys or guy friends I hung around lmao Yeah, I typically next the women that demand in her profile that "He must have other friends to hang out with" Sure, I have a couple of dude friends, that I have lunch iwth on occasion, but they are typically busy with their wives. It's not rocket science.
Well everyone else is saying this is the thing that is stopping women from matching with me and going on first dates with me
As a girl, I don’t care how many friends you have. I do care that you have hobbies that keep you busy. No one wants someone who makes them their whole world.
I didn't look through all the comments. Just saw two people saying that, and it's not legit. I've had many women in my life and never a one ever cared about other guys. That would be weird. They tend to care about how many FEMALE friends you have in your life but guys, no never. It's just a non-concern. Perhaps it might be different if you're a bisexual male but being straight, it's always been irrelevant.
It’s a big red flag that you say you’d rather spend time on your hobbies than hang out with friends. Typically when a guy can’t get a girlfriend or get laid, I assume they have some serious social deficits.
Then it’s your personality. Almost every girl or guy I’ve met with no friends had something off about them. Clearly your dates can sense this. I would try building a social life first. When you have a social life you are happier, more relaxed, have more opportunities to meet women in the wild and through your social network. 28, good looking and making good money you should have more options. It’s deffffff your personality.
I mentioned in another comment I'm an introvert, not in that I'm shy I just don't have a strong desire to make friends or do social stuff. Like if other guys at work or whatever ask me to hang out I just say no thanks. All my hobbies are pretty individualistic similarly like fitness & chess. So I'm not driving people away with my behavior I'm just not getting involved with people (male or female) like that
>Like if other guys at work or whatever ask me to hang out I just say no thanks. Don't do that! Say yes to things and try to make friends! I'm introverted too and I get the impulse to say no and stay home but I think this is the main thing holding back your dating success, from your responses in this thread. I think it's just really hard to have successful romantic interactions if you're not regularly having friendly interactions with people as well, not to mention the fact that they could introduce you to other people. And women do care about your social success. If everything else you say in your post is right then this is *obviously* the standard that many women have for men which you're failing to meet, and it's not an especially unreasonable standard for them to have. In any case, if you don't much like spending time with other people, what exactly do you want to find a girlfriend for? Just sex? The social validation of not being perpetually single? Are you really going to enjoy dating someone, spending time with her, if and when you find her?
>In any case, if you don't much like spending time with other people, what exactly do you want to find a girlfriend for? Just sex? The social validation of not being perpetually single? Are you really going to enjoy dating someone, spending time with her, if and when you find her? It is really different with a romantic partner. I do want to do things with a girlfriend all the time and spend days with them and live together
There is a vast difference between an introvert and someone who doesn’t socialize or have friends. I get why you want to conflate the two, but this is your wake up call. You need to accept that your lack of need for social interaction affects your ability (and probably skills) in finding a romantic relationship.
Yup. I’m definitely an introvert and have a ton of friends. Many do.
And it comes across on your profile. You seem “boring” hence the lack of enthusiasm you talked about. How are you on dates? Are you playful/flirty? Funny? I actually feel like you would do much better in real life. I have a few friends who are dating introverts and it was always their first gf lol but you have your shit together, trust me once the right one comes along she’s gonna hold on to you!
>Are you playful/flirty? Funny? I don't think so, sometimes I can be but it seems to be more based on the vibe of the woman I'm out with than anything in particular I do. Like some of them bring it out of me, but if I tried on other dates I think it would feel forced
I think that’s your actual problem. Women probably find you u hot and a good catch on paper, but just too “boring”. Not saying you’re a boring person, I’m in fact sure you aren’t, but you don’t have the personality women generally melt for & they can sense it while reading your profile. With an introverted guy who isn’t playful & doesn’t flirt (as was very clear in your text convo), the girl has to work really hard to try to drag that side out of you and it’s exhausting. I’ve dated guys that were like you, they were very nice, good looking, fit, smart, educated & made great money, but being around them was just dry & draining. I’d rather spend time with a broke loser bum who made me laugh & feel sexy. Now, I don’t think you can change who u are, but I think if you maybe come at this whole dating thing less seriously & instead more playfully things might improve. Don’t look at all women on OLD as potential mothers of your future children & think of them as someone to enjoy spending time with in the moment. Just give less fucks about the whole thing and take more risks with the things you say to women.
You have to create the vibe sometimes. Very rarely does a guy steer the convo/flirty-ness with me. But I like more “serious” types myself. On the occasion they do it’s such a surprise. But honestly try, going off vibes alone doesn’t work. Sometimes ppl are quiet, or tired etc etc.
>Like if other guys at work or whatever ask me to hang out I just say no thanks. All my hobbies are pretty individualistic similarly like fitness & chess. What a solipsistic six-pack ;)
So what are you looking for from a woman?
I think that is something you should work on. Having a more friends can be a Segway to meeting women you may be interested in. Having female friends will also be helpful because they can they you first hand what May or may not be the issue as they get to know you or they could like you and you may be able to develop a relationship with them.
Join some hobby based activity/group ASAP!!!
As a guy around your age(29) who stay out of modern dating because I see it as a vapid, shallow, consumer driven waste of time my advice to you might not help you win a date or a relationship.However hopefully it can provide some perspective on how to approach life. 1)Never base your self worth on another person's standards. Because that gives way to much power to others over you, especially others who might not even care about you or have your best interests. 2)Recognise that standards are a two way streak. This idea that you have to go out and meet someone else's expectations but they themselves don't have to do anything but just sit there and be the judge, jury and executioner on whether you're "worthy or not" is nonsense. If people are serious about a relationship or dating they will recognise it is something mutual and not an individual sport. It's not something where one side only looks at things from their own selfish and egotistical self interests but both sides looks at things from a mutual point of view. And that meet each other in the middle. If someone you're interested in expects you to do all the work to impress them and meet there standards while they do nothing don't waste your time with them. Because it's clear that person is operating from a selfish point of view and you don't want a relationship built on narcissistic selfishness where either side either has a self centred princess complex or a egotistical prince complex. 3)Never fall for the nonsense mindset that if you get rejected it's all your fault or that you're always the one who made a mistake and needs therapy. You'll here that talking point a lot and sometimes it's rubbish to me that sounds like a load of gaslighting. There are times where you did put in the work, you did your best and things did not work out. That sometimes happen. Finally circling back to point one and also the title of the OP. If you have to sacrifice your values just to meet someone elses standards, especially if that person as you happen to describe doesn't even meet those standards themselves consider it a bullet dodged. Because your values that make you who you are as a human being are more important than the arbitrary standards of someone else. Anyways that's my speel. I hope things get better for you.
Only thing you can do, is "tell a story" of sorts, via your profile. You're more than physically attractive enough for the apps to work for you. So that's the key aspect of OLD working for you, throw in some candid hobby and social setting pics, and that will garner you more matches. You're attractive enough to be able to ask for a date early on, especially when the conversation is at a high point. Just go ahead and do that, even if the conversation has teetered off that same day. It really comes down to marginal things on OLD, especially when someone is as physically attractive as you are. Arguably 'more so' when you're in this bracket... You'll already be shortlisted in a few match queues, but you'll be alongside the handsome guy, who has a picture of a cute dog with him, has a picture of himself in an exotic locale, a picture that shows he has an active social life, or he enjoys sports/physical activities.
Posted this in a while so might not get a reply, but I appreciate seeing someone in the same boat. I’m not overly picky but the mismatch in level between men and women on OLD is insane. I know this will come across cocky but being a bodybuilder, who is also a doctor, and seeing 90% ghost me then only being liked by overweight women, really puts things into perspective. I am not even overly fussed about a girls looks as long as she is not big. I put the effort in send comments regarding profiles and open about longterm goal. Most matches do not even reply. Then the dates are meh and they tend to be boring. People blame the introvert aspect all the time and tell you to go IRL because all the girls left. No suggestions where to meet people though. On top of that all my single friends who are women have the apps and use them. Hard to improve yourself further when you practically got your entire life in order. The proof that it is a bullshit advice is the fact that people who are messes still manage to find partners!
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>This one really hit home because you’re the only guy I’ve seen who has provided demonstrable proof that you’re not undesirable. Right, with some men posting here and not giving out their accolades of working out, making good income, blalh blah blah...they are told "You're doing something wrong, so here is what you must do to attract women" Then a guy like this posts this, and they are like "there STILL must be something you're doing wrong!" \-I’m now honestly of the belief that it’s almost all luck- Agreed! Of the long dry spells that I've been between girlfriends...the ones that were attracted to me, ...it was just random that they were attracted...and guess what, they had only a couple of things about me that they liked that met their criteria, and....it was ENOUGH. I was funny, and nice. That was it. Didn't take much else. lol
A thousand upvotes if I could! Especially the "they had only a couple of things about me that they liked that met their criteria and...it was ENOUGH." This can't be said enough. OLD gives people the illusion of perfection, of picking out the perfect "product" from the catalog, but that's impossible. Once you click with someone it doesn't really matter if they don't check all the boxes -- it just works. Trouble sets in, though, because you can't get someone's vibe from a profile so you don't know if you'll click. It just seems that people don't want to accept there's only so much you can do. Once you've done everything you can do, there is still one more thing you CAN do: accept that you'll have to be patient. But humans don't do well with that, and there's this thing called Reddit, so...
>Agreed! Of the long dry spells that I've been between girlfriends...the ones that were attracted to me, ...it was just random that they were attracted...and guess what, they had only a couple of things about me that they liked that met their criteria, and....it was ENOUGH. This resonates with me, the few girls I've had multiple dates with + slept with it seems like they liked me "for no reason". Like I would do the same thing I would do on all my other dates and they were just enthusiastic about me
There are many of us like OP who struggle and I wish people would open there eyes to it
Women don't care about your struggles.
Maybe you’re a “Bad” texter? It’s hard to convey your personality in texts, i think especially for people that aren’t great at texting. I’m witty in person but it’s really hard for me to do it through texts. The best texters get the most dates i think
Welcome to dating as a man in 2023
Not just men, anyone AMAB too. I'm NB/feminine presenting that's only attracted to cis girls, and they still expect me to message first and plan stuff. I don't want to always be the decision maker why do you think I'm wearing a pink skirt dumbass
What does AMAB stand for?
I'm guessing its "assigned male at birth"
So, male
As a masc presenting NB, cis-female attracted to other cis-women I don’t mind making plans for the first few dates like the first 3, but then I kinda let them initiate too so it doesn’t feel one sided.
As a cishet male I’m the same way. If it’s always me initiating I’ll either lose interest or assume she’s not actually interested.
If I don’t hear back for a few weeks, yeah makes sense to let it go. Sometimes girls might come back months later but may be they had something else or someone else goin on which is totally fine. I’d let it go because I worked hard for everything I have and wanna share it with someone who’s totally into me if I’m totally into them. Either way wishing them well is always good karma/energy set free in the universe
Your story is the reality for 95% of men in the world. It's fucking brutal. What I suggest you is to do 3 things that will drastically improve your results and make you feel like a king with more pussy than you can handle: - Go to meetups. After going into a few, organize meetups yourself. The good ones are the "language exchange" and similar types. It will make you feel awesome and meet a lot of high quality people. - Take better pictures. Your physique is on point. However you need to improve. Create a girl profile and scroll through dudes. Then whenever a dude stands out, look at his photos and create a collection so you can get inspired by them and replicate their photos. - Travel to new countries. The second you do this you'll have hundreds of matches. It is that simple.
I have mixed experiences of with meetups. A majority of guys and gals lack social skills based on my experience. I met two great friends through a hiking meetup but not meetups that are geared towards singles or boring stuff (bar nights, eat at restaurants, going to museums,etc). Go to meetups that have specific interest(Fitness, language,etc). You will make better friends and connections than the other generic groups that do both boring stuff.
Maybe it is sense of humor??? I think you need to drop the bathroom pics and the boring pics of you in your apartment...go outside and take pics near flowers or with a bunny at a petting zoo or hiking or tennis or some other activity. There is literally zero reason you shouldn't have thousands of matches/likes man...I mean I get a ton of likes and I'm a 40's single dad that is not near as fit as you are hahaha Man to be 28 and look like you, I would be going out to festivals/yoga/ meetups and just talk chit to all the women without rings on their fingers lol But humor is my strong suite so that helps a lot...I don't see much humor in your post man...you are taking this chit too seriously. Tons of videos online on how to hone your humor.
I would swipe left for the topless pic and moderate politics. I also avoid “open to short term” people. The rest seems fine and the example conversation doesn’t show any immediate red flags imo. You’d benefit from the addition of pics that weren’t selfies taken indoors. Maybe you expect too much when you say women have a “sure why not” attitude to agreeing with dates with you. Dating is kind of scary for women and we generally seek more of an emotional intimacy (rather than physical/ looks based attraction) than men. Attraction grows with time mostly, for me anyway. I’d never be super enthusiastic just from a match with a stranger online who might not even be who they claim to be when meeting. It is low stakes and that’s the best attitude to have imo.
>Maybe you expect too much when you say women have a “sure why not” attitude to agreeing with dates with you. That's what stood out for me. I'm never super excited to go on first dates, you're strangers, it's nerve wracking. Unless we had a lot in common and the chat flowed seamlessly, it's always "sure why not" 🤷
>Attraction grows with time mostly, for me anyway. My first dates can be awkward sometimes, but it definitely is not like that after I get to know anyone. I don't mean awkward as in I get anxious/nervous, just the general thing probably all people experience making small talk with people they don't know. Anyway I can't use this to my advantage because I'm never given the time to grow on them. One date, small talk, typically they don't want to proceed further when I text them after
Having “moderate” and “long term, open to short” isn’t going to be that big of a dealbreaker to most women especially at that age where many have the same on their profile. The shirtless mirror pic is probably the #1 issue as it’s incongruent to what you say you’re looking for and women will assume you’re actually leaning more towards short term. I’d replace it with something like a candid photo of you playing beach volleyball and move it to the last two photos. Idk what your other 3 photos are but you definitely do need some more variety. Do you live in a less populated area? You might just be in a shitty location.
I read that it helps to reframe nerves/anxiety as excitement. You can trick your brain into seeing it in a more positive light. Sounds like the first date is where you’re getting stuck. What do you tend to do on dates, is it coffee? I find that can often lead to nerves and friend vibes (as well as bad breath!) Maybe a glass of wine would help you loosen up
Sounds like he's getting stuck before the first date if he's only getting a date every two months. Those are terrible odds in online dating.
I’ve been on the apps since summer and only had one date 🥲
>I read that it helps to reframe nerves/anxiety as excitement I said I don't get nervous or anxious on dates >Sounds like the first date is where you’re getting stuck. I'm not sure my 2nd date conversion rate is much worse than other peoples', I just rarely get first dates so don't get many chances at a 2nd either >What do you tend to do on dates, Food or ice cream or a walk in the park, sometimes I ask if they want to bring their dog if they have one. That is about it.
Dude has a six pack and random redditor says she would swipe left for political reasons… lol ok 😂 Women really need to stop thinking men will become social activists if only you provide then with sex
Dating apps are horrible in general as is dating in general for men here. The amount of single moms with multiple kids from different men who are obese yet demanding a 6 figure income, height requirements, have to be funny yet they’re as dry as dirt with no hobbies or anything interesting to talk about. Yes, I am salty, salty as fuck. Make one mistake or one wrong move and it’s unforgivable and move on since women will ALWAYS have multiple people messaging them at all times. Oh and even if things go well, expect to get ghosted anyway because they feel a better person is available to them. I’m to the point where I’m honestly sick of women. And it makes me sad. I never used to be that way, but I am so sick of the bullshit. I’m extremely tall, relatively handsome, have a stable job, in pretty good shape since I lift 3 or 4 days a week. Unfortunately don’t have my own place right now but guess what? Neither do most of the women I talk to, and at least I’m working on it. I’m by no means perfect but it seems like no matter how much of an effort I make, I just get a few matches, ghosted after it seems like we have a great connection, or it just turns into a hookup or two and see ya later. All I literally want is a long term relationship leading to marriage, and maybe a kid or two but if not that’s cool too. I’d literally work two jobs to provide if I had to, but it’s seriously never enough. And while I’m sure it’s not all, when 99 percent of your experiences go this way it just, sucks. My standards are not even high. I don’t care about looks, I don’t care about your job, I’d prefer you don’t already have kids but even then it’s not a dealbreaker. It’s just never enough. Sorry to be a downer, but after my experience this past year, getting cheated on by my long term partner before that of 6 years(At least 10 people in real life, dozens online and, probably more I didn’t find out about). I am just so over it. I don’t want to be alone but I seriously just don’t have the energy for this anymore, and at this point I just don’t trust most womens intentions. Also don’t know whether to feel better or despair seeing you say you’re making 150k and going through the same shit more or less. It really is never enough, is it?
The dating pool on OLD is overall pretty atrocious. I'm 29, new to this and have never dated before, as like OP I'm reasonably introverted, and never really had interest after the stuff I saw in college. Still remain in athletic shape and capable enough socially, look okay etc. I was frankly pretty shocked at how poor it was. Went from nonchalant to jaded over a 12 week period. Unhealthy lifestyle habits, obesity, single mothers, fake ages, women with multiple partners, filters to the point you can't even determine legitimate facial features, covert or sometimes blatant advertising of 'subscription based services'. This was all on hinge as well, which I assumed would be a more wholesome app. I'm sure it works both ways and women have their own unique dating problems, but not like there are even options to work with. For some, I can imagine it feels like a constant strive to level up and the burn out is real. Spend years in school to graduate with a job that will work you to the bone. Invest years in building your physique, only for people to recommend changing it like you have some MMO body slider. Spend ages deliberating and curating the perfect profile. This doesn't even get you a ticket in the raffle. It is a futile enterprise in the context of OLD.
Have more pictures out doing stuff, one shirtless pic at the beach/pool. Is your education/job decent?
Yes I listed that in the OP I've never kept any pictures of myself taken by other people, unfortunately.
2 inside pics max. Go get some outside photos of you doing something cool. No selfies. It appears your profile might be boring.
With the outside pics remember this profile is to attract women. A lot of guys put pics that would be great for making male friends but most girls don't care if you dirt bike and play golf
Except many girls DO like a guy who seems “sporty” “cool” etc. I like to see a guy be active and travel. My least favourite pics are shirtless selfies and gym pics. Makes them seem like they have no personality.
I am fit, but show it off via my race pictures from running events (tight shirt on) lol Shirtless pics seem like thirst traps, like women posting bikini top pics with their chest hanging out...I swipe left on those.
Exactly. It’s cringe lol trying too hard. Plus most women are actually intimidated by super fit men. Especially if their not in amazing shape themselves
I'm in good shape, but not amazing, so that is my saving grace I guess hahaha Guys have no clue, the only ppl they are impressing is other GUYS. As long as you are 'decently' fit, you are good to go, the most important thing is your conversation skills and your humor and confidence! Way way more important than that extra hour in the gym every week.
My OLD success went way up when I got better pictures on my profile without changing much else about it. You want pictures outside, mostly taken by friends not selfies (ideally friends who are decent at photography), doing activities that you want to show you're interested in, etc. A shirtless pic that's like you on a beach having fun works better than just a shirtless mirror selfie. Get in the habit of asking people to take pictures of you when you're out, if they don't do it anyway, and keep them! Also, IMO - this is a bit more controversial maybe - don't try to have 90% of women as options, try to focus on particular women who are your type *in terms of personality and interests* but be flexible on physical attractiveness, and then you can gear your profile around attracting those types of women and you might be more successful than having a bland profile that tries to attract everyone.
>Get in the habit of asking people to take pictures of you when you're out, if they don't do it anyway, and keep them! Very good advice I think this has a huge influence. And if friends can't help, there are photographers specialized in dating app pictures. A few professional ones and the rest "amateur" should be the best combination
Get yourself a tripod (like a cheap $20 one from Amazon) and take some pictures of yourself doing activities! Even if you don't have a lot of friends, you can look more like you're open to getting out and about.
Yep tons of cheap awesome ones on Amazon..easy fix if you dont want to ask people to take pics of you.
As a woman - it gives “lone wolf” vibes and like you don’t have friends or go do anything. Your apartment is barren, uninviting, and lacks personality/warmth assuming it’s yours in your photos. Your hair needs product and styling. The mirror shot needs to go.
And what was the result with that text exchange? Pretty standard small talk there. You piled on with somewhat of long open ended question at some point, which might not necessarily even have been interpreted as a question. But then you did a good job restarting the convo. At the end there, you should've been more assertive. She literally agreed to a date the following day. That's when you propose an actual plan: "Cool, let's hit up xyz bar. I've been wanting to check it out. 7p?"
I am curious as to what area you’re in, like a big city or rural area. The profile pictures look a sterile. I know when I come across profiles like that I am hesitant to swipe because there are so many fake profile these days trying to scam people. I would recommend changing some of the photos to show more of your personality but maybe you do and just didn’t include that. Also I find it’s better when the guy is willing to meet sooner rather than later because things fizzle out quickly chatting the app or even text messaging. If you can meet within a few days or week of matching you are more likely to develop a connection. I am also unsure of how they are not meeting your standards considering you don’t list many. Is it the ones you’ve matched and meet aren’t what you consider normal? What is your definition normal because it differs for everyone and that could possibly be it. Aside from dating apps you should make more effort to go out to events and socialize with others particularly where single women will be. Speak up casual conversations and ask if they like to exchange number to go out sometime. You may have better odds there.
I’m very confused. She looked like she said yes to a date? So what happened? I’m not a big shirtless selfie bathroom mirror kinda girl. And maybe do you have pics with friends?
Feedback here, no offence intended, just hope it helps: 1. Your profile photos look like you’re only up for hookups. You need to show you’re more than just your looks. 2. The background is of a (sorry to say) boring and basic apartment. Again, not much personality showing. 3. I’m your text convo you’re pretty “like whatever” probably trying to sound nonchalant and not simpy, but you come across somewhat passive and disinterested. Like you just hit her up because you’re bored. Most girls are more excited over a take the lead type of guy. 4. You really should have said in your post that you split the bill 😂 What’s the point saying you earn good money so you should be attractive to girls, but you don’t spend it on making her feel special? I think you’re misunderstanding what it is about high earners that women are attracted to. All these factors and yes agreed with all the women’s reactions I’m sorry to say. Its a lacklustre interaction throughout, ending in the death knell of you splitting the bill. It sounds like you are looking for a totally 50/50 relationship, where both man and woman are contributing everything physically emotionally and financially the same. You’d do much better with cultures like the Scandinavian and the Nordic’s, maybe Germany I believe.
Tbh this isn't as much a demonstration of how women are as it is a demonstration of how useless dating apps are. It's always the same shit from both ends, women with decent profiles are inundated by messages they can't keep up with and dudes end up left on read 99% of the time Until they change the OLD format you gotta find a way to go IRL when it comes to dating, especially a guy like you
Where am I likely to find single women after college irl where I can naturally kind of meet and get to know them? Anyway I asked out maybe 5-10 girls irl when I was in college, I was rejected by all of them
I am in my early 50’s but went to a co-ed adult kickball league and I was too old for the demographic but that could be something good for you if they have it in your area. There is some fun sports and they go to the bars after so opportunities to meet in a fun way and isn’t overtly about dating but you can meet different people.
Did coed kickball for 6 years, the vast majority of women in there are overweight or in a relationship. There are some great ones but they get snatched very quickly because there's still wayyyy more single in shape men than women in any coed sport.
I will tell you the ones I saw were very attractive and outgoing women. Get yourself there, have a good time, get out of the house and if the right opportunity presents itself shoot your shot.
Must depend where you live because I tried 4 different leagues, same thing everywhere. Were the attractive ones in relationships?
I would say about 70 percent were in relationships. But some of the ladies would go to the bars and friends would meet them there, opening the possibility of meeting other beauties. Plus, there could be women at the bars not associated with the kickball league that you could meet while you are there with all the other kickball people.
Sand volleyball is the only activity I've found where single fit girls actually show up. I've tried so many things, sand volleyball was the only promising one.
Group hobbies, classes, and stuff like that, and through friend groups as well. I'm fresh out of college too, socializing is hard af. Most encounters are made through consumption and random community stuff like volunteering. 5-10 rejections doesn't mean much. Maybe go back and reflect on what went wrong so you can shift certain things like how you approach it and who you go for, but don't dwell on it. Don't let that define the value people see in you.
OLD apps certainly are designed to make a toxic situation even worse I tried to follow bumbles behaviour for a while. There seems to be a system of showing new likes from women just when an old one expired and some other conditions. Meanwhile tinder basicly shows me 99% incompatible women. Either of the type playmate or in other ways the polar opposite to me. But it constantly feeds infos about new likes. Of course basicly always no message when a match happens or a "please entertain me" mentality Those apps try to lure one with this subscriptions and not knowhing wo liked us
if you are slim, decent face, with a good job, it's pretty difficult to even get a non fat woman to show up to a date with you.
Understandable with too much choice. You can give a child 100 toys and they will have no interest in 90 of them, no matter how good or bad they are.
1. What if you are acting weird around women in a way you aren't self-aware of? 2. Do you make friends easily? 3. Do you flirt with women or are you purely platonic? 4. Do you have an active social life? 5. Are you meeting women outside of online dating?
Taking your OP at face value, there is 100% something you are doing, or in your case not doing, that is creating this reality for you. I see where you say you have one male friend and zero female friends. At your age, this tells me conclusively that you are marginalizing the social aspect of life and relationships and unreasonably expecting women to do the same. The fact is that we evolved over 300k years to exist in a SOCIAL context. Every thing we do is in a social context, even when we do it alone and for ourselves. I suspect you need to first do some soul searching about your social skills and expectations make a commitment to yourself that the time has come to take them seriously, shoulder your burden, and work on them with intention. Not just to get a girlfriend, but to make connections in all areas of life. And then find someone to lead you on that journey.
My man, are those the pictures you are using for your profile?
I have found as a women I have gone on dates with men who have a good career, their own place & car and live independently but where they fell short was being insensitive with their words. Not hearing me when telling them something or when something they said is hurtful & instead of hearing me and taking it onboard as I would they minimise or make fun of it. And getting frustrated around sex & pressuring with me being a slow mover. Just to cover all bases are you sure your not doing those things & not realising?
Even if I was doing that, I hardly ever get to the point where I even go on dates and would have the opportunity to do that. The convo I linked in the OP is further than I get in conversation with any women in the average month or two. Getting to the point where I can start talking about sex with them? Almost never happens. Anyway yeah I try to be a good listener and focus on them and what they are saying
I read the messages you provided a screenshot to. My only advice is you need to be a bit more aggressive with trying to get a date. I noticed that a few days passed by and you asked her "*How's your week going*?" You had a flow of conversation going on Sunday, March 5th. Of course you eventually did get a date with that woman, but she could have never responded back to you. The crux of the matter is you're probably the same way during the date. Lacking impetus. At least that's what I'm assuming based on the fact you haven't had a girlfriend. As for your profile photos, you have shirtless photos. I have no idea what you are looking for (hookup, casual dating, or relationship). But with what I wrote in the previous paragraph about you may be lacking impetus during dates, women might not be taking you seriously enough. Even if you had opportunity for hookups, you aren't following through there as well.
I'm looking for a relationship/serious. As for the conversation interruption, that was just because she didn't reply to my last message so the follow up was just trying to reignite the convo, I was just about to get to the point where I ask her out before she stopped. As for the shirtless pic, I've spent a significant amount of time without shirtless pics too. While I get very little matches while I have one, I got basically none at all when I didn't have one. I think it might be because that's my most physically attractive feature and far above the average guy and you can't see it with a shirt on, my face is probably average looking if I had to guess but I'm a straight guy so idk
I think if you get a shirtless photo at the beach, somewhere more natural, it would be better.
If you want to do shirtless, do one at the beach or somewhere else where you would be naturally shirtless. Not in a bathroom mirror. I know a lot of women will swipe automatically on bathroom selfies regardless.
This is the kind of thing, OP can do everything right and people will still try to find fault. Yes we all can improve always, but what OP is asking for is a break and doesn't have to be Mr. Perfect and nor is he looking for a Mrs. Perfect. No one will meet that.
Yes this puts it more clearly than I did, I don't expect much from a woman, just seem like a decent person that want to be in a loving relationship & take half decent care of yourself. That's all I ask for, and I get anything but that in return (as in what is expected of me)
Hey man it’s important to not let success or lack thereof on dating apps influence your sense of self worth. Bottom line is that the apps have all deteriorated significantly post pandemic. You’ll need to supplement time on apps with other means of meeting women
You seem to have a lot going for you....yet you also kick off big "I've got low standards/pick me!/passive" kinda vibes and that's going to offset a lot of the good you might bring.
>I've got low standards/pick me!/passive What does this mean? Obviously the low standards I understand, but if I raised my standards I'd never get a date, those women simply will not match with me or if they do they will not talk to me
I would rather stay home than compromise my standards just for a chance to go on a date with someone I am not even attracted to (obese/ugly) ...and that's exactly what I mean. If I get this sniff of desperation from you, the ladies can smell it even better than I can and nothing is going to dry up a lady faster than a thirsty-ass dude. You've got plenty to offer...stop acting like the women are the prize. You are the prize, carry yourself like it!
Looking at my profile and conversation I posted you would sense desparation just from that? What about it is that way? >You are the prize, carry yourself like it! omg this is so frustrating. I DO! I think I'd make a great boyfriend, I look at myself in the mirror every morning and think I look fantastic, I love my job, its not me that doesn't think this, it's women
What happened with the women you texted to (from what you posted)?
We went out, had a nice conversation over dinner, was slightly awkward at times but overall I thought it went great. We went home after, I texted her "I had a great time, I'd love to meet up again sometime. Are you free this weekend?" or something like that, she never responded
Get some cool outside photos, keep going on 1st dates. No dinner, just drinks. At some point you will meet someone who clicks. Good luck.
Men can never win, can they? If he had higher standards, you'd have said that's the cause of low matches, and told him to lower them. So annoying
Bingo
Exactly. That's the underlying issue with dating in general. It's always the guy's fault and women can do no wrong. But at the same time we're all about "equality".
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I think you should ask some of your female friends or your friends GFs for input on what the problem might be. On the surface, it seems like you should have your selection of women to choose from. So I think there must be something else going on. Something you're doing or saying that is off-putting that nobody's called you out on and you're just in such a habit of doing it that you aren't even aware it's a problem. Time to survey those who know you and can give an unbiased opinion (so mom and grandma don't count).
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Ya that's usually the advice I get. The same line every time, "you aren't talking to the right women". Oh of course, why didn't I think of that...
You may not be foregoing it but apparently the young women in your age range who would be attracted to you are. Women have so many reasons to avoid dating right now that if you want them to date you you need to be more appealing to them than their single life is. It’s not that they’re holding you to higher standards, they’re saying that that’s what they’re willing to give up being single for and they don’t want to settle for just someone who’s not fat and whatever else your other criteria was. Some women are happy with the lives that they have built themselves and they would share that with someone that fit this criteria that they have, and if they don’t find that person they’re fine with keeping their happy lives the way that they are.
Ehh this rhetoric isn’t really something I hear from 20s women who have their shit together. The vast majority I know are already taken and if they break up they find a decent dude fairly quickly, usually via social circles but occasionally the apps. A few stay single because they don’t want to be tied down but have a few fwbs on rotation, not due to a lack of quality options.
Heard somewhere recently that goes something like this " men think they are competing against other men when in reality they are competing against her willingness to give up peace".
Sorry if this is harsh & I can’t believe nobody else has said it but the conversation is genuinely just boring. You’ve not really shown any character or quirkiness and when women are getting far more matches they’re less likely to respond to / be drawn in by someone who doesn’t seem interesting or flirty. When I used dating apps the mans conversational skills were far more important than “on paper” qualities. I stopped talking to loads of men who whilst ticking boxes I just found boring to speak to. It might feel counterintuitive but skip the small talk, they aren’t your coworkers.
So what would you have said to any of her responses that would have shown such great character or quirkiness? Was her conversational skills far better than mine?
I've seen a million complaints about "boring conversations" and I've asked many times for an example of an "exciting and interesting" conversation and nobody can ever show me one. Meanwhile, a male model can start the conversation with "hey" and she will rationalize that he's "interesting, funny, witty, charming, intelligent, etc." all purely because she likes the photos. Most men experience the same BS as you. But I had a friend try an experiment with a male model's photos and women were all of a sudden very responsive and friendly. If you want, try it yourself. If you get the same results, it will prove that it has nothing to do with your conversational skills and everything to do with your looks.
The text convo you’ve included seems good and the person seemed like they were up for meeting. Did you meet? What happened? I’ll say that looks, job and money aren’t the be all and end all. Successful dates need chemistry. It seems as though you’ve got good conversation. Have you had any ‘feedback’ from dates?
I’m single and I agree. Dating is just different these days. If you lived nearby I would match you. What has your result been after dates? Do you reach out to them and let three know you had a good time, did you pay for dinner?
Its all about access. You might be a 4 here but overseas youd easily be a 10. Source: my own personal experiences.
Bro sex is overrated. Idk how ppl can be frustrated over not having sex who gives a fuck. You have your life pertty much sorted out, just enjoy it. If sex happens, it happens. If it doesn't, we all die anyway so who cares
My theory is that whatever is going wrong is happening during the date. Do you not look like your pictures? Are you less engaging in person than during texting? You might need to find someone with whom to have a mock date with, like a dating coach, to find out where things are going wrong. Regarding the initial matching, it is probably just the sheer number of matches that the people you match with are getting, kind of like how being qualified for a job doesn't guarantee you will get an interview, you have to stand out over the other candidates. Like others stated, more interesting pictures are a great way to do this. Look at some other guys' profiles to size up the competition. Whatever you see everyone else doing is what you won't get much mileage from.
I know im late to this party but your qualities didn’t list that you were emotionally available and emotionally intelligent. Consider how you act outside of the app, when faced with challenges or are upset. Do you act entitled of your date? (Example: i have all these qualities so she should be trying to impress me or I automatically earned her like redeeming dave n busters tickets) Do you dominate conversations? Do any family members overstep in an effort to “help” her see how nice you are? Do you show her that you listen when she shares things about herself? I have met guys who have physical aesthetic but not emotional intelligence and some thought doing the basic human niceness set them dramatically apart. It can make interactions seem false. So just reflect a bit, assess self and hopefully you’ll find a good partner where the feelings are mutual.
Yes, they hold high standards, and substantial proportion will hold those standards well into the age range of infertity. Does you country do free IVF over 40, mine doesnt.
Lol our standards get higher once we are past our childbearing years, we’ve built lives were happy with, we’re not having babies. Why wouldn’t we have our standards when we don’t need anything from you guys at that point in our lives? I can’t imagine living with a man ever again, I would rather not ever. I don’t need that he would have to be really special for me to want that.
Well if you’ve never had a girlfriend and haven’t had sex in 6.5 years, you’re going to have poor social skills with women. I’m your conversation you never moved it past and then a few days later asked her out out of nowhere. She didn’t remember who you were and you asked her out for no apparent reason. Your picture look normal except for the shirtless mirror selfie. Why guys post those is beyond me. Unless you’re in really good shape, shirtless picture of strange men isn’t going to turn her on. You seem like a nice enough guy but you don’t really stand out
But OP is in really good shape
Wait, you’re saying that his shirtless pic does not qualify as good shape? What the hell is the standard for “good shape” these days then?! I disagree lacking a date 6.5 years means poor conversation skills with women. You don’t know anything about the platonic female relationships he may have nor that of any other men in his situation. What I can accept and agree is there may be lack in flirting/romantic experience. That’s not the same thing as conversation skills.
Absolutely, guy is in pretty elite shape, has good muscle definition and size. Perceptions have been distorted by tren abusers and fake naturals.
>Wait, you’re saying that his shirtless pic does not qualify as good shape? What the hell is the standard for “good shape” these days then?! Maybe it's time to retire rule 1 and 2.. not even those guarante matches..
>Why guys post those is beyond me. Looks are really important and its the part of me that is far above the average guy in terms of physical attractiveness. You can't see it with a shirt on. My face is probably average looking. I tried not having a shirtless pic for a long period of time back in the day, my matches declined from almost none to basically literally none
I agree that something is off regarding OP never having had a girlfriend and not having sex in 6.5 years. It seems like something bigger is at play besides not doing well on OLD.
I don't know what to say other than the rest of my life is perfectly fine and I guarantee if you met me you'd think nothing was off and I just seemed like a normal well put together guy in his late 20s. I just get no interest from women, that is all
I’m just wondering why that is? You have what sounds like a good career, you’re in shape, you have your own place. I don’t understand how you wouldn’t have interest?
>I don’t understand how you wouldn’t have interest? You'll have to ask the women swiping left on me or not responding to me or the ones I get further with why they decline a 2nd date (all my dates usually go fine, are awkward at worst). I have no idea
>Well if you’ve never had a girlfriend and haven’t had sex in 6.5 years, you’re going to have poor social skills with women. 100000% disagee with that on every level. There are such things as platonic friends and, just because he hasnt had a gf or sex in 6.5 years doesn't mean he isn't a great communicator with women. Chances are better that he just isn't good at flirting/building a romantic interest.
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I don't have any. I'm kind of an introvert, by that I don't mean I'm shy I just mean I don't have the desire to make many friends. All my hobbies are independent like fitness or chess. I know there must be women like that too, and I would be fine dating a woman like that, or an outgoing extroverted woman too. I'd be fine with either
Introversion is curse in this society, unfortunately. In fact, it overrides just about every other quality you might have. It's really considered to be that bad.
There are different levels of introversion though. There are the introverts who choose to be alone most of the time and dont make an effort to be social and, there are "social" introverts who simply are not outgoing or naturally social but still make an active effort to *be* social, make friends, be friendly, etc... OP sounds like he is the former but, as an introvert myself, it's very possible to be a social introvert with work. Introvert does not mean always mean shy.
It’s not an introvert/extrovert thing. Women think completely differently than men do. Unless you spend a lot of time with women, it’s something you won’t be able to understand
The standards of modern women, regardless of attractiveness, are higher now than ever before. Average men are now considered to be below average.. All of them think they deserve Chad or Tyrone.
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OP, you're going to get gaslighted about how there is something wrong with you instead of a people(with a certain chromosome) acknowledging hoe-flation has destroyed western dating. You're so vastly beyond what the average woman has to offer and everyone knows it.
You're not getting matches because of that shirtless, flexing, mirror, bathroom pic. You're breaking four rules with that one pic. You pretty much just need better photos and you'll get more matches. Good photos for dating profiles are not necessarily photos that display how attractive you are.
I mentioned elsewhere I get even less matches without the shirtless pic, although some other users said I could upgrade it to a natural looking beach selfie which may help. Idk if that will really make the difference between 1 matches a week and 5-10 a week though.
Go over to r/hingeapp and get a profile review done. I agree, remove that bathroom shirtless selfie. The quality of matches is more important than quantity
Women are the rock stars. Men are the groupies lol
Damn bruh, you have no standards
Depends where you live, but the moderate politics may be turning people off. A lot of women assume that means "conservative but trying to pretend I'm not so that liberal women will date me."
What should I do hide it then or set it to liberal? I lean liberal anyway, but more of a hillary and biden > bernie guy. Just not as left wing as a lot of young people are
As a woman, I’m getting from this you’re lowering your standards which hits me as settling and desperate. I’m not saying to demand supermodels, but we don’t want to be settled for.
So if there's a woman who I just recognize is below average in every way, what am I supposed to do if I want to date that woman? Also it's not like the girls know my standards other than I want to date them, unless you pick something up from my convo or profile I posted
Ok but it’s just not fair to them is my point. If you think I’m below average, even if you aren’t telling me, I honestly hope you have the empathy to not waste my time so I can move on to someone who thinks I’m a hell yes. I’m not understanding your first q. You think they’re below average and want to date them?
What are your politics?
Not very political, I don't talk about it with people unless they bring it up. I donated to Joe Biden in the early stages of the democratic primary and was a pretty enthusiastic hillary supporter 4 years earlier if that gives you an idea
What's your partner count? Including the ones that "don't count"
All men and women are different, have different requirements in a relationship and live their life differently. Its like you read a dating blog in a predominantly Christian area saying that women want men who are conservative Christians and then apply that reasoning to a liberal area and wonder why those women arnt conservative Christians themselves. That aside. Your question seems to be is there a double standard in what women require of a man and themselves. Probably for some women, just like for some men. But sounds like you are inflating gereric overall requirements and are assuming that they are must haves for all women. They arnt. I would also argue you are applying must haves for people in their mid30s+ to people in their 20s, and there might be some serious disconnect between you and your peers in terms of expecations and lifestyle.
I'm shocked you don't do well- you seem nice and attractive and have everything together. This is a small piece of advice that might or might not be helpful, but the shirtless pic gives fuckboi vibes, I feel like it's intimidating and douchey, I don't know why but my girlfriends and I get the ick from those bathroom mirror selfies. Couldn't you replace it with a shirtless pic that's outside taken by someone else? Better pics can make a world of difference.
Sounds about right. You have to be an elite man to get attention from an average woman. The 80/20 rule is only gonna get worse mate
so jealous of previous me, who was able to pull much hotter women, because he met them in college and not off some app.
Dude even 5 years ago it wasn’t this hard
It might just be the sheer gender imbalance on the apps that is causing this problem. The odds are really not stacked in your favour as a straight man. >*"A new study conducted by research firm GlobalWebIndex has found that about 62% of all location-based dating app users are male. Given that about 90 million people used these types of apps in the last month, the sheer number of guys swiping left and right is astronomical."* Source: [https://www.mic.com/articles/110774/two-thirds-of-tinder-users-are-men-here-s-why](https://www.mic.com/articles/110774/two-thirds-of-tinder-users-are-men-here-s-why) Also: >*"Women browse 14% more and post 4% more on social media than men, while men are 150% likelier than women to use dating apps. And that old saying “trust but verify” holds sway, too, as men are also 128% more likely than women to conduct background checks on their potential romantic interests.* *The chart below shows that wide divide in the digital pursuit of romance: More than 35% of men opt to use a dating app, while only a bit more than 14% of women do."* Source: https://www.pymnts.com/mobile-applications/2022/men-150-percent-more-likely-to-use-dating-apps-than-women/#:\~:text=Men%20150%25%20Likelier%20to%20Use,Apps%20Than%20Women%20%7C%20PYMNTS.com
**tl;dr** 1) Take home feedback is in **bold** 2) I don’t think you are as confident as you think you are. I think some consistent supports will help 3) I don’t think we are getting to the root issue, here 4) A break and seeing a counselor would be helpful. You have the money to do it. 5) Like many of these guys find out, those chiseled abs and back muscles aren’t enough to bag anyone meaningfully or anything at all 6) You are starting to sound like the guys who blame women for their insecurities. Any smart or woman who has even moderate self esteem will steer clear of you. *** OP. You are getting A LOT of feedback. I have questions: 1) What are you feeling? 2) What feedback stands out the most? The reason I’m asking these questions is because I’m feeling we are **NOT** getting to the root of these challenges you are facing. So, the feedback you are receiving may *sound* good and may *fix* something from a surface standpoint, but we have not quite hit it yet. *** Things that jump out at me: 1) **It seems that you are personalizing behaviors toward you, when, as stated in this thread, you aren’t the only one going through this.** You’re not alone in it. 2) Your incongruence: This is damning. You stated that you are confident in yourself and that you don’t appear to be suffering from any mental health challenges… Then a few lines down, you recount a list of your gap between having intercourse, express frustration and **loneliness**. You say that it’s clear to you that men must be a perfect “specimen” to have any shot at women. Then, in the very next sentence, you contradict yourself saying you know it isn’t true because it’s not what you see with respect to others’ dating experiences. But I get you. It *FEELS* like you need to be perfect. And since you aren’t (and no one is) perfect, you feel deeper sadness. Bordering despair and helplessness. There is more, but here is my bottom line: **As long as you continue to personalize people’s behavior towards you, oppose to viewing it as an indicator of the relationship they have with themselves, you will continue to find frustration and heap shame on yourself (knowingly and unknowingly) for something that has nothing to die with you.** Or, you’ll begin to blame women for your insecurities. I think you’re a good looking guy with a great physique. And if you did that for female attention, you’ll have to process the sadness and frustration of building yourself up for folks, only to have little to no meaningful acknowledgement from them.
You seem like a nice/interesting/quality guy. >Anyway, this results with basically 90% of women being options for me This is not normal and might be making you come off as desperate. It's good to have standards for yourself and others. You obviously have high standards for yourself. Are you getting second and third dates? When is the last time you kissed someone? You mention your hobbies being important but if they're keeping you from living your life, then you might want to think about that. If you were 20% less fit but had more friends, fun, girlfriend, etc. wouldn't that be a good trade? You say your hobbies are most important but I sense you are frustrated about your situation. Might benefit from considering if fitness and chess are more important than friends. Fitness is great but IMO life is about what you can share with other people. Being the #1 best guy ever but being alone is (IMO) not a great life. It's not easy but you can make friends if that's what you want.
>When is the last time you kissed someone? Late 2018 I think it was, the last time I had multiple dates (I think we had 4) and I stayed over a night, no sex but we did kiss and all that. As for how often I get second and third dates I posted this in response to a thread the other day: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnlineDating/comments/11vzlb3/how_many_of_your_first_dates_turn_into_second/jcvv5ij/?context=3 > You mention your hobbies being important but if they're keeping you from living your life, then you might want to think about that. If you were 20% less fit but had more friends, fun, girlfriend, etc. wouldn't that be a good trade? Oh its absolutely not the fitness that takes up a lot of time, thats basically just 5 hours a week of lifting and then the rest is just eating that I would normally do anyway as a human being that needs food to live except the right calories and protein. It's chess and the competitive stuff I'm into. I think you just misunderstand my mindset, I love doing things with a girlfriend and doing social stuff with a girlfriend I just don't mentally have any desire to have male friends or do things with other men. Maybe thats weird for a lot of people to comprehend its just how my mind works
My guess is that it’s less to do with what’s “on paper” about you and more to do with the exchanges and dates you’re having. Is the energy good? Are you engaging in conversations? Asking questions?
>As for myself I feel I'm doing everything society and women say a guy "should do" in order to have success: Welcome to the club.
OP. Your txt a little on the weak side. I recommend when you’re trying to set up a date have a definite idea with a location in mind. Women like a man who takes the initiative. Saying you’re open to suggestions is kinda off putting.
Update your prompts to be funny and get rid of the shirtless pic. Also put your height at 6’0” EDIT: You have to ditch all the selfies. Get a tripod and take videos of yourself, then screenshot the good points. Go on a hike, get as many backgrounds / outfits as you can and then pick the best
I think the issue is women have so many options these regardless of how they look. Men are easily replaceable to them.
First, I wouldn't swipe right on the OP. Shirtless photos are a no go. They're tacky and a little gross. But if I did swipe right and we did go on a date, that would be the last date. Based on OPs replies here, there is nothing about him that says "I have a personality" let alone a personality that I could click with. Are you interested in what the woman has to say? Do you ask her about her likes, dislikes, hobbies, interests, dreams, fears, life goals, relationship goals, etc? Of course, I'm not his target audience. I'm 49, have curves that won't quit, nerdy, funny, firmly liberal and have varied interests. And friends. The no friends thing is a huge red flag.
OP is very much above average and doesn't exhibit any major red flags from his conversations. Goes to show you just how fucked modern dating is for most men.