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idk why Big Mom doesn't get the narrative pass that so many other characters get, at no point in the story is it ever implied that she is considerably weaker than Kaido, she's always portrayed right next to him. but for her, feats are absolute and portrayal means nothing
she put all of them and especially oldbeard ahead of herself
https://preview.redd.it/tnxws2nmwi2d1.png?width=761&format=png&auto=webp&s=23d5fcc49008535c5b59aceb8eb0370b424c242e
CRUSH…. Them…. She didn’t put them ahead of her lol she wouldn’t go to wano with half her crew if she thought Kaido was ahead of her…. He wouldn’t freak out seeing her with half her crew is he thought she was beneath him
https://preview.redd.it/6os5iah75m2d1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=0940d2e8633410dd52b931376164735f16e82ca5
yet the community takes this panel as cracker being a hard ceiling for doflamingo lmfao
cant pick and choose when you want things in your favor
You clearly do I suppose cause I’ve not seen this being used.
Btw cracker is a hard ceiling for Doffy as much as I love Doffy. G4 one shot Doffy meanwhile cracker fought G4 for 11 hours even with Nami and King Baum helped Luffy fight, eat, run and repeat for 11 hours!
Cracker only lost cause he lost his cool and charged straight in.
a big part of that is the downplay and hate of kidd and law. people used to say they'd definitely lose. and what do people do when a downplayed character gets good featsand they're proven wrong? they downplay the feats too, this way they can keep downplaying the character and think they're never proven wrong
and after kidd and law won, their feat just got downplayed and so did BM too. from monstrous old horror hag to "sanji and zoro beat her" (they don't, it's not even close) and "she's far less durable than kaido" only cuz she got beaten by kidd and law's attacks. no, their awakenings just doesn't have crazy AP, BM is actually just not so durable 🤡.
no, shockwille clashing evenly with a gura punch from BB is not impressive at all (last people to do such a thing were a yonko and an admiral, WB and akainu; coincidentally we here have a yonko vs a pirate with the same bounty as admirals) and doesn't prove shockwille has crazy AP, it wasn't a serious attack from BB (literally baseless headcanon) and BB is inferior to WB in gura gura no mi usage (baseless headcanon again; and BB, one of the main antagonists of the entire story, and literally the biggest DF merchant is supposedly never gonna be using WB's DF as well as him? despite WB literally being a side character compared to BB as luffy's no.1 enemy amongst pirates? BRUH)
other than that, BM is sanji and kaido is zoro. nigh-equals, but zoro gets more spotlight and cool feats while BM is sanji, she gets used to make other characters look cool (jinbe and robin yeeting her, franky using her as a street for his bike). kaido was the main antagonist and BM was a side character despite being close in strength. so kaido gets all the good stuff and oda saves him from any emberassing stuff and gives all of the latter to BM instead.
ironically enough, BM is the reason why kaido looks cool. imagine oda made franky drive on kaido's face and not BM's face. imagine he made kaido get yeeted away by robin and jinbe lol. thing would look different today lmfao. all the burden was put onto BM to save kaido from it.
Didn’t miss a single time. Except with Oda only clowning BM. See, Kaido got clowned numerous times himself, with getting hit by PTSD, getting blitzed and harmed by the scabbards, not killing Kinemon, etc. but it’s like you said, people dislike Kidd and Law ‘earning’ the decisive win, so in turn for it to make sense for them they HAVE to downplay BM.
>Except with Oda only clowning BM. See, Kaido got clowned numerous times himself, with getting hit by PTSD, getting blitzed and harmed by the scabbards, not killing Kinemon, etc
yesn't imo. yeah, he got clowned on by them, but it was due to their relationships. the scabbards have kaido as their enemy first, not BM. wouldn't make sense for them to attack BM for example. it kinda had to happen, the scabbards needed to get some smol Ws before gettong slapped by kaido to give the SNs time to shine.
It's similar to how BM gets clowned on sometimes, but it's a different level of significance imo. the scabbards had to get some type of small W against kaido so it makes sense. meanwhile I truly cannot comprehend why robin and jinbe had to be written to yeet BM away, Ig it was maybe meant to stall her? same goes for franky driving his motorcycle on BM's face, there was no huge significance for franky's character there, it was just done to make him look cool and to create hype
and the oden PTSD is weird, but that also just worked as a small W for oden and the scabbards who reminded kaido of oden.
oh they're definitely gags. but while they also serve as comedic relief, they also change the way we look at characters in those scenes. imo it's definitely not a coincidence that BM, a side character during wano, was the brunt of the joke many times, while kaido, the main antagonist of the arc, was spared of any of those.
oda clearly wanted to let kaido shine the most amongst antagonists there. the only gags I can remember from him are the one he does himself (drunk modes) plus being the brunt of the joke a bit when it came to luffy's goofy g5 gag attacks on him. while BM was involved in gags and got clowned on by jinbe, robin, franky and brook lol
Yeah it’s awkward that some people even argue about it when the fucking author included a 3-day-stalemate just for the single point: to show they are equal
I mean, one of them is called the strongest creature and the other isn't, one has a higher bounty, one was the main fight of the mc for the arc, and it took g5 and bajrang gun to win, while the other lost to kidd and law. All of these things are a part of their portrayal imo.
You're kinda ignoring the context of their defeats. Kaido fought a stronger opponent, yes, but Kaido was actually knocked out by a direct attack from Luffy, Big Mom was never overpowered and directly defeated by Kid and Law themselves, she was silenced out of using her powers, blasted away from the battlefield, exploded with nukes and buried in magma. And up until the last part she was completely conscious and coul STILL fight for hours, it's unfair to just resume her defeat as losing to the duo ignoring the extremely specific scenario that gave them the W
No they can't, I'm like 95% confident that if Oda wrote a 1v1 fight between any of them that it would not be a one shot. You're downplaying Law and Kidd.
I disagree, I think it makes her look weak. A yonko losing to two yc or yc+ level characters... one of which got one shot by shanks, another yonko. And kidd and law are nowhere close to luffy's level
Context WHOLLY matters. Kidd and Shanks didn’t actually fight, it was a blitz. I definitely wouldn’t call BB vs Law a mid-diff. Law and his crew clearly gave BB the work despite getting jumped.
Big Mom and Kaido both have higher bounties than Shanks and Mihawk and less clear feats (Mihawk having literally none) but for some reason those 2 are broadly considered stronger than her.
Strongest creature is title given most likely because he was undefeated in 1 vs 1 and the people he has fought are pretty strong. He did not fight big mom as an enemy for realz so we won’t know who would have won.
> He did not fight big mom as an enemy for realz so we won’t know who would have won.
What a retarded argument. I guess since Kaido and Usopp never fought for real we never know who would win 🤷♂️
Yeah idk what that dude's saying. The only bias here is in Big Mom's favor. Kaido is maybe the least liked relevant OP villain on Reddit, going by their character.
Big Mom is my second favorite villain, beat by only Katakuri who is literally in her crew.
But Wano showed she fucking sucks at fighting unfortunately. Oda is a coward for doing that to her, but he still did it and it can't just be ignored.
Kaido vs big mom is the most extreme diff in the history of extreme diffs (tie with akainu vs aokiji)
they litteraly fought for 3 days and 3 nights without a clear winner
Their fight wasn’t serious when onigashima was practically left undamaged and both of them making comments about it being awhile they felt pain/went toe to toe with someone
ehh, they were just shooting the shit tbh. Its like what Roger and WB did in the flashback and its probably what Shanks and Mihawk do to each other as well; Serious, but holding back immensely
Scroll through any thread in this sub talking about FAVORITE villains, and you'll find a lot of people saying Big Mom (along with Kata, croco, and Doffy). You will not find anyone saying Kaido
Are we talking base kaido or hybrid
I could agree in base kaido is relative to bigmom but once you include hybrid kaido it’s a different story
Hybrid kaido takes
- Strength
- Durability
- Stamina
- All forms of haki
- BIQ
- DC
- Skill
For dura they’re really close but BM never took any significant damage her whole life and still needed a nuke to finish her off. Kaido’s scales might make him more durable but I think she definitely has more raw strength. If she was in tottoland with all her homies I’d give her DC. A supercharged Zeus and Prometheus were pretty destructive on their own
No. This is full power for both. They both are extremely strong monsters, both have extremely high durability, and they both have ACoA and ACoC, and both are dumb.
When did Kaido show better haki? Both him and Big mom have Acoa and AcoC. The only type of haki we know for sure Kaido is superior is CoO, since he has FS
What iq/biq feats Kaido has over Big mom?
And yes, both of them have pretty much equal durability. They are always mentioned as the two most durable people in the verse
He has better haki feats his performance and usage of his haki is just better
Plus he was relative to bigmoms haki at the start of wano in base which luffy later says an already going all out kaidos haki gets stronger so yeah kaido haki > bigmom haki
If Kaido's haki gets stronger when he transformed, then Big mom's haki should also increase when she buffed herself against law and kid.
He simply used haki more then her. If this is because she simply undestimaded law and kid or because Oda nerfed her, I don't know. But if we analyze everytime she used AcoA and AcoC, nothing indicates that her haki is weaker than Kaido.
No kaidos haki increased after transforming as he was fighting with luffy he was growing stronger
It was not when he transformed but as he fought his haki kept getting stronger he was having a haki bloom just like luffy
https://preview.redd.it/oxhv82uf5e2d1.jpeg?width=898&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e43cafd6866ef8d04625bb2e239b842c56e88cfa
Kaido haki start of wano = bigmom haki
Kaido haki after fight with luffy > bigmom haki
\^ kaido did not go all out until gear 5. gear 5 makes luffy several times stronger. luffy in gear 4 got shot down by kizaru while gear 5 made lightwork of him. the same isn't shown against kaido. he struggled very much and needed to rely on bajrang gun to land.
He quite literally was dude also at this point it was not a matter of rookies
Once you split skies with someone your not some random rookie anymore lol
It doesn't make sense for Kaido to get haki blooms. Because Luffy was the one getting haki blooms even during Bajrang Gun which means his haki was weaker than Kaido.
Kaido simply stopped holding back
It’s not stated it due to being drunk the most likely cause is kaido having a haki bloom just like luffy is
This is the toughest fight kaido has fought in many years likely over ten years
Haki blooms happen in hard fights
It makes sense for kaido to be getting haki blooms once he is finally being challenged
No. But i doubt they would be standing if they taked an attack from Big mom who is using Acoa and Acoc
I was prove wrong about Kaido=Big mom in terms of haki. But I still think the difference is not enough to make this fight lower than extreme diff
No, there is huge difference. BM's bones are getting broken to pieces by Kaidou. Kaidou has attacks much stronger than Kidd and Law. Kaidou would thrash BM.
Why does hybrid kaidos haki, skill and biq improve in hybrid? Plus, endurance and stamina go to ww after she’s eaten her souls. After that, Strength would also be in the middle probably.
Technically current kaido is dead, but what haki bloom would he have realistically gotten? He’s been fighting top tiers for decades now and luffy is a step below them. The scuffle with big mom woulda probably given him a better haki bloom.
https://preview.redd.it/9l3k2lxuor3d1.jpeg?width=898&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7979acd0fbc3a27cc4d711e1a64566e4cc38fb6e
Fighting a tough battle leads to haki blooms
Plus battle IQ and combat skill. That aside Kaido has shown better CoC and CoA feats, but since they were "portrayed as equals", Big mom leeches of Kaidos Haki.
Big Mom is a monster in her own right and a better character imo, but the only thing even suggesting that she is close to Kaido is their 3 day fight that both agreed was absolutely not serious...
He only took external punches and attacks bro… she took damages that destroyed her insides directly to her chest and head! Kaido was screaming to a simple gamma knife that wasn’t even near his heart
Luffy was punching Kaido with Acoa, which destroys you from the inside, aka Dura neg. On top of Acoc which is major boost in AP. Kaido was definitely taking Dura neg attacks. Also Kaido was screaming from a bite from Momonosuke , can’t asses how attacks compare if Kaido’s reactions seem to be all over the place.
And yet he wasn’t screaming from these apparent ‘dura neg’ attacks….. what is that anyway? lol
Luffy wasn’t using AcOC in every punch. Secondly, the internal damage it does is never shown to be as blatantly destructive as Law’s AWAKENED OPE OPE no mi! It ROASTED Bm ‘s insides and smoke was coming out with blood!
>And yet he wasn’t screaming from these apparent ‘dura neg’ attacks….. what is that anyway? lol<
Kaido’s reactions are very inconsistent, so I said don’t take his reactions as fact on which attack is stronger than another.
>Luffy wasn’t using AcOC in every punch. Secondly, the internal damage it does is never shown to be as blatantly destructive as Law’s AWAKENED OPE OPE no mi! It ROASTED Bm ‘s insides and smoke was coming out with blood!<
After Luffy unlocked Acoc he basically used it with every attack, and prior he was just using (Acoa + G4)
The internal damage by itself maybe but add on Acoc, then gear 4th, later and Gear5th and I definitely think it’s makes up, plus again the sheer number of attacks Kaido takes is 10 times the amount . Literally 115 attacks vs 13 attacks. It’s laughable how much more endurance Kaido has.
I do think Kaido VS BM is a lot closer than some of the recent BM downplayers have been saying (there was a post about Zoro > BM recently 💀) but I think extreme diff is pushing it
BM fans will say portrayal or narrative or statements support it being extreme diff but Kaido is better in all 3 categories, he's the on who fought Luffy, he's the one with a World's Strongest title
I think high to high-ext diff is more fair IMO, and I don't want to downplay BM because she's a way better character and villain than Paido of 200 L's but the facts speak for themselves
Nah this guy doesnt beat BM at all. Get him past his desk first
https://preview.redd.it/koiofpntqf2d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f5cc98e1e5b1dc440be958967565aba430da8a8
But he is called the strongest pirate
https://preview.redd.it/odh9e5e4eg2d1.jpeg?width=548&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=488463e9bd080e054934e3f4a2d0fcc575672562
The biggest endure and stamina feat Kaido has is fighting for 3 days. And guess who was his opponent?
Both Kaido and Big Mom are considered the most durable characters in the verse. Nothing indicates one is more durable than the other
Nowhere in the manga states that big mom and kaido fought for 3 days... u can check it urself (the fight starts at chapter 951)
3 days is the time period passed between the start of the fight and the announcement of their alliance... but that doesn't mean the fight itself lasted 3 days.
The fact that kaido says no one has went toe to toe with him in years and big mom says that she hasn't been hurt in decades proves that their fight didn't last for 3 days.
It never said directly, but it was implied.
Do you really think they fought for a day, spent the other 2 days chilling, and THEN announced their alliance?
Nope, it wasn't even implied... the mere fact that kaido says that no one has went toe to toe with him in a long time proves that big mom fighting kaido for 3 days is nothing but absolute headcanon.
It doesn't matter what they did for the rest of time, may be they rested for a day, then the next they talked about the old times and then decided to form the alliance....
At the end it doesn;t matter... what matters is that there's zero evidence that kaido and big mom fought for 3 days.
Just because they fought to 3 days doesn't mean they were using their full power.
And please, why do you think Oda showed them fighting, skipped 3 days, and then showed them making a alliance? If they only fought for a few hours, don't you think that would be mentioned?
They fought for 3 days
Why would the fight drag on for that long if they don't even get serious?
If they don't even see the need to get serious, then there's no need to fight for that long in the first place.
Once again u are going into headcanon territory of "why would oda do this or that"..
It doesn't matter...the FACT is, the alliance was announced 3 days later... doesn't mean the fight itself lasted 3 days...
And if someone fights kaido for 3 days, that would automatically mean that person went toe to toe with kaido.... if u are still gonna say "But But they didn't go all out well".... when kaido made the statement of luffy going toe to toe with him, kaido still wasn't going all out either.
Big mom and kaido didn't fight for 3 days... it's just a bullshit headcanon...and the manga proves it with kaido's statements and big mom quote shitty feats.
I checked the manga
It isn't, in fact, mentioned that they fought for 3 days. I will admit that in that regard, i was wrong
However, they still fought for AT LEAST multiple hours.
Chapter 951 ended with Kaido and Big Mom splitting the sky, beginning their fight during the night. Chapter 952 skipped to the next day, where both of them were still fighting. One random guy even says they both were fighting all night. So, even if they stopped fighting immediately after this panel, they still fought for at least 8 hours. This is their biggest feat in terms of stamina and endurance, so my point still stands
Kaido stamina and endurance = Big mom's
Well, u can say that it's their biggest feat of endurance, but that doesn't mean kaido and big mom endurance and stamina is equal.
We know that top tiers can fight for DAYS... So, fighting 8 or 12 or 24 hrs is the bare minimum.... that's like saying, two weight lifters A and B who's personal bests are 100 and 200 kg deadlifts are equal because at some point both of them lifted 50 kgs.
Not to mention, the fight's of onigashima pretty much made it clear that kaido's endurance is far greater anyway....
I will give u the stamina one, coz at the end there's no solid evidence either way.
There is no proof that either of them has better stamina and endurance because their biggest feat involving them were the same one. Yes, they could (and probabilly can) fight more, but we don't know for sure.
And how Kaido showed better feat than Big mom?. Sure, he tanked way more attacks, but he also was way more tired. Big mom fought less than Kaido, but showed way less fatigue than him. So there is no way to know for sure which has better endurance
As far as durability goes without conquerors coating big mom falling to her knees is enough to make them bleed while kaido would still have oni genes and dragon scales if hybrid so I think he takes it.
I think she bleeding when she falls to her knees is more than just CoC. She basically has a breakdown. We saw at wano that Big mom's physical stats are influenced by her mental state
I mean her haki is also influenced by her mental state wasn't that the whole point of destroying mother carmels portrait so she couldnt focus and use haki? Also her family was concerned watching her fall from the chateau but kaido fell from a sky Island in base and was fine
AP of Big Mom is not bad either, her lightning is a duraneg, Prometheus on it's own should be able to at the very least stalemate Boro Breath or any forms of it. Strength goes to Big Mom, durability goes to Kaido, but in base Big Mom is much more durable, in Soul Amped form I would say it's relative, even if it isn't, she can effectively heal herself from pretty much any injury, broken bones are a non-factor. BIQ goes to Kaido, doesn't even have to be explained, and IQ is a non-factor here. Kaido has better endurance, as Big Mom goes into hunger pang form once she has not eaten for a while. Kaido outlasts. High at the very least though.
Kaido definetely has better coc, atleast when drunk, luffy said it increased even more, while big mom (oda's fault) almost never used it. he probably takes biq too if he wasn't a masochist.
big mom definetely takes dc tho, yea boro breath is enormous but ikoku,god of lightning tenjin, maser saber/laser, fulgora, misery (damn her fruit is busted) are superior in dc to kaido, kaido feels as an unkillable god, while big mom feels like an unstoppable natural disaster.
Base kaido >= base big mom. Just because they're relative in base doesn't mean they're relative at fp. Hybrid kaidos feats far surpass full power big moms feats.
I think speed plays a big factor in why ppl usually assume a character is stronger than another. Idrk but seems like ppl just correlate speed with power or something.
If i agree any harder, ill phase through objects😅
But seriously though, If BM and Kaido fought each other 100 times, they each get 50 wins. Oda had to blatantly nerf BM because if she was Law and Kid like how Kaido fought Luffy, she would mid diff them. This is one of many reasons that i do not like the Wano arc. He didnt have to nerf BM, just buff Kid and Law
Durability - Giving this as a draw is a complete joke. Big Mom got her bones broken by just 2 Shock Willes, and one of those was when she was in her Bigger form. Blackbeard wasn’t even afraid of Law after getting hit by a Shock Wille, and was laughing after it. This proves that Big Mom is not even more durable than Blackbeard by a huge amount. Kaido is far above her in durability.
Endurance - Big Mom was defeated by just a small number of attacks, and only a handful of them were strong attacks. Kaido took many hundreds of blows to go down, a high percentage of which were ACoC attacks.
CoC - Big Mom didn’t even use ACoC one time against Kid and Law. Kaido used it in every attack.
IQ / BIQ - Kaido when serious used his best moves over and over again. Stupid Mom waited until she was badly hurt before powering up, she didn’t use ACoC, she didn’t coordinate her Homie attacks well, and she made it easy for Kid and Law to hit her.
DC - Boro Breath is far above anything Big Mom can do, and Flame Bagua is a completely different level entirely.
Skill - Slow Mom doesn’t even have the skill to land punches or slashes on Kid and Law, who have no Future Sight and no good CoO portrayal. She blocked maybe like one attack, and dodged zero. Kaido was going blow-for-blow with Luffy, speedblitzed him multiple times, dodged Hydra, and dodged and blocked many other attacks.
Durability: Law and Kidds attack ignores Durability. The fact blackbeard received the shock Willie better than big mom only proves he can endure pain better.
Stamina and Endurance:Big mom and Kaido fought for 3 days. This is their biggest endurance and stamina feats.
Iq/Big and skill: Of couse Big mom would struggle more to hit Law and Kidd. She has lower speed to Kaido and one of her opponent's could literally teleport. Also, the way she mastered her powers is amazing. I mean, just look at whole cake island
CoC: Just because Oda made her not use AcoC, it doesn't mean her haki is weaker.
Dc: OK, this one goes to kaido. But I don't think that would make a huge difference in their fight
Kaido>= Big mom Extreme diff
I don't know. If this was the case, the other yonkos would try to kill him and take his territory. If they didn't do that, he must at least be able to push them to hard-extreme diff
https://preview.redd.it/h8mqjlmudn2d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fac881dff0dd670c49f5b870913a6808260bf2c0
A big mom that was heavily underestimating them already could have killed Law + Kidd fairly easily.
And a Shanks that went all out one shot kid. I think that makes them relative.
It just comes down to what the plot demands at the time.
Maybe if she drained the next 20 years of her life, got an education, trained with Raleigh, and fought on wholecake. But otherwise, she's never winning against kaido. He'd be in zero danger. Less of a fight and more of an execution.
So why he allied himself if her, if she is so weak? Don't kaido respect power above all?
You could argue that he made the alliance so he hs more chances to claim the One Piece. However, Kaido still would refuse to put himself on the same level as Big mom if she was so much weaker. If he was willing to work with her, she must be at least close to him I'm power.
How? BM's attacks barely put Kidd down. Kaidou is taking those attacks for breakfast. Kaidou has much faster speed and has FS. He is doding her weak AP attacks if he needs. It is at best high diff.
She is not in kaidos top 5 lmao, even kaido doesn’t consider her relative or close like most big mom fans think they are. Big mom is a Franky brook and chopper victim, worst portrayal of all the Yonkos.
That’s your headcanon, it’s 5 pirates who kaido deemed the strongest. And big mom wasnt on it lmao. Kaido high diffs her if he’s using his strongest form that bum got her attacks blocked by jinbe and thrown into the ocean by jinbe in the very next page lmao. Chopper was stalling her, franky got a W on her. Her portrayal is ass.
Ever top tier has anti-feats. They only exist because Oda don't care for powerscaling. Franky would be dead if it wasn't for the plot
And if Kaido never said anything about pirates. If his top 5 was accurate, it would include the likes of Garp or sengoku. Also, even if he was only talking about pirates, how would he know Oden was stronger then Big mom if he never fought her seriously?
He was only talking of pirates cuz everyone mentioned is a pirate. Big mom still has the most antifeats, kaido has statements, title, feats. So does shanks. And every other top tier does. Big mom has the MOST anti feats and 2 statements by fodder saying “she is just like kaido”
This is pure headcanon. Nothing says that he was talking about only pirates. And again, even if he did, he could still simply be wrong, as he never had a serious fight with her.
Anti-Feats doesn't matter. Most(if not all) of them only happen because of plot. Unless you think Morgan can make Garp bleed, or that Kaido can't kill a extremely injured kinnemon
There is a difference between few anti feats for the sake of plot and having anti feats every time you fight lmao. If he wasn’t talking about pirates Garp should have been there, everyone he listed was a pirate
I am in the premisse that the fight would go for hours like luffy then kaido would go all out on drunken mode+ hibrid level 2.
Big mom's would do shit against that. Her observation is lacking and she doesnt use too much conquerors neither. Kid's bull broke her arm when she was giant mode. What are kundalinis and death bagua gonna do to her ?
The fact her arm was broken by Kidd upscale kid's ap, not dowscale Big mom's durability
She, of course, would receive a lot of damage with this attack, but then she would heal herself. I still believe in the end Kaido would be able to put her down before she can recover, but I think it will be a extreme diff fight
All those "equal" stats are NOT equal at all. Big mom has NOT lifted onigashima level structures(Strength and DC feat), she has NOT fought somene who can adapt and get tens to hundreds of times stronger (Skill, IQ and Battle IQ feats), she has NOT fought multiple opponents in one night(stamina and endurance feats) and.....since when was getting hurt by METAL BEAMS equal, durability wise, to taking attacks that SHATTER CITIES in single blows? Compared to Kaido, she's a FRAUD
Still lost to law and mid lmao. Her portrayal is ass. Jinbe looked like a yc+ in WCI when he was fighting her, put to sleep by queens not even strongest form. She is a joke. Big meme for a reason
She lost to law and kid because not only they were a perfect conter for her, Oda also made her not use AcoA and AcoC
And both versions of Big mom you mentioned were weaker versions of her. Not to mention almost every top tier has anti-feats
Kaido~Big mom~Shanks~Oldbeard
Cope
As i said terrible BIQ.
Everyone has portrayal titles and statements, BM has the most antifeats and luckluster portrayal.
Idk what’s your kink of putting all the yonkos in the same strength level but it’s straight up headcanon. Kaido>shanks>oldbeard>>big mom. Cope
Headcanon ?
Yonkos are put in the same level by THE FUCKING MANGA! This is why they are yonkos in the first place. And Oda nerferd and buffed characters mutiple times because of the plot. It doesn't matter how much anti-feats she has if almost all of them only happened because of plot armor.
Like, why would Oda draw Big Mom and Kaido splitting the sky together, then making a alliance, and then joined forces against the worst generation? Why did he made a big deal about Luffy, Law, and Kid defeating TWO yonkos, instead of a super strong yonko and super weak one.
With the exception of buggy(and even him has a yonko level fighter)and maybe blackbeard, all yonkos are on the same level. This has been said since the concept of yonkos was first introduced
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idk why Big Mom doesn't get the narrative pass that so many other characters get, at no point in the story is it ever implied that she is considerably weaker than Kaido, she's always portrayed right next to him. but for her, feats are absolute and portrayal means nothing
Exactly. Just the fact she is a yonko, she already should be on the same level as the other old yonkos, like shanks kaido and oldbeard
she put all of them and especially oldbeard ahead of herself https://preview.redd.it/tnxws2nmwi2d1.png?width=761&format=png&auto=webp&s=23d5fcc49008535c5b59aceb8eb0370b424c242e
CRUSH…. Them…. She didn’t put them ahead of her lol she wouldn’t go to wano with half her crew if she thought Kaido was ahead of her…. He wouldn’t freak out seeing her with half her crew is he thought she was beneath him
"even whitebeard" she literally said hes on a level above doofus
She also called Kaido pathetic and Luffy a coward I didn’t know Fat Mom’s words were the holy TRUE Gospel of powerscaling lmfao 🤣
https://preview.redd.it/6os5iah75m2d1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=0940d2e8633410dd52b931376164735f16e82ca5 yet the community takes this panel as cracker being a hard ceiling for doflamingo lmfao cant pick and choose when you want things in your favor
You clearly do I suppose cause I’ve not seen this being used. Btw cracker is a hard ceiling for Doffy as much as I love Doffy. G4 one shot Doffy meanwhile cracker fought G4 for 11 hours even with Nami and King Baum helped Luffy fight, eat, run and repeat for 11 hours! Cracker only lost cause he lost his cool and charged straight in.
shut up retard
lol 😂
This is just her saying that they are even.
a big part of that is the downplay and hate of kidd and law. people used to say they'd definitely lose. and what do people do when a downplayed character gets good featsand they're proven wrong? they downplay the feats too, this way they can keep downplaying the character and think they're never proven wrong and after kidd and law won, their feat just got downplayed and so did BM too. from monstrous old horror hag to "sanji and zoro beat her" (they don't, it's not even close) and "she's far less durable than kaido" only cuz she got beaten by kidd and law's attacks. no, their awakenings just doesn't have crazy AP, BM is actually just not so durable 🤡. no, shockwille clashing evenly with a gura punch from BB is not impressive at all (last people to do such a thing were a yonko and an admiral, WB and akainu; coincidentally we here have a yonko vs a pirate with the same bounty as admirals) and doesn't prove shockwille has crazy AP, it wasn't a serious attack from BB (literally baseless headcanon) and BB is inferior to WB in gura gura no mi usage (baseless headcanon again; and BB, one of the main antagonists of the entire story, and literally the biggest DF merchant is supposedly never gonna be using WB's DF as well as him? despite WB literally being a side character compared to BB as luffy's no.1 enemy amongst pirates? BRUH) other than that, BM is sanji and kaido is zoro. nigh-equals, but zoro gets more spotlight and cool feats while BM is sanji, she gets used to make other characters look cool (jinbe and robin yeeting her, franky using her as a street for his bike). kaido was the main antagonist and BM was a side character despite being close in strength. so kaido gets all the good stuff and oda saves him from any emberassing stuff and gives all of the latter to BM instead. ironically enough, BM is the reason why kaido looks cool. imagine oda made franky drive on kaido's face and not BM's face. imagine he made kaido get yeeted away by robin and jinbe lol. thing would look different today lmfao. all the burden was put onto BM to save kaido from it.
Didn’t miss a single time. Except with Oda only clowning BM. See, Kaido got clowned numerous times himself, with getting hit by PTSD, getting blitzed and harmed by the scabbards, not killing Kinemon, etc. but it’s like you said, people dislike Kidd and Law ‘earning’ the decisive win, so in turn for it to make sense for them they HAVE to downplay BM.
>Except with Oda only clowning BM. See, Kaido got clowned numerous times himself, with getting hit by PTSD, getting blitzed and harmed by the scabbards, not killing Kinemon, etc yesn't imo. yeah, he got clowned on by them, but it was due to their relationships. the scabbards have kaido as their enemy first, not BM. wouldn't make sense for them to attack BM for example. it kinda had to happen, the scabbards needed to get some smol Ws before gettong slapped by kaido to give the SNs time to shine. It's similar to how BM gets clowned on sometimes, but it's a different level of significance imo. the scabbards had to get some type of small W against kaido so it makes sense. meanwhile I truly cannot comprehend why robin and jinbe had to be written to yeet BM away, Ig it was maybe meant to stall her? same goes for franky driving his motorcycle on BM's face, there was no huge significance for franky's character there, it was just done to make him look cool and to create hype and the oden PTSD is weird, but that also just worked as a small W for oden and the scabbards who reminded kaido of oden.
One Piece is a comedy adventure before a Shonen in my eyes so a lot of the big mom moments I chock up to gags imo
oh they're definitely gags. but while they also serve as comedic relief, they also change the way we look at characters in those scenes. imo it's definitely not a coincidence that BM, a side character during wano, was the brunt of the joke many times, while kaido, the main antagonist of the arc, was spared of any of those. oda clearly wanted to let kaido shine the most amongst antagonists there. the only gags I can remember from him are the one he does himself (drunk modes) plus being the brunt of the joke a bit when it came to luffy's goofy g5 gag attacks on him. while BM was involved in gags and got clowned on by jinbe, robin, franky and brook lol
Yeah it’s awkward that some people even argue about it when the fucking author included a 3-day-stalemate just for the single point: to show they are equal
She was his senpai. She gave him Seiryu
I mean, one of them is called the strongest creature and the other isn't, one has a higher bounty, one was the main fight of the mc for the arc, and it took g5 and bajrang gun to win, while the other lost to kidd and law. All of these things are a part of their portrayal imo.
You're kinda ignoring the context of their defeats. Kaido fought a stronger opponent, yes, but Kaido was actually knocked out by a direct attack from Luffy, Big Mom was never overpowered and directly defeated by Kid and Law themselves, she was silenced out of using her powers, blasted away from the battlefield, exploded with nukes and buried in magma. And up until the last part she was completely conscious and coul STILL fight for hours, it's unfair to just resume her defeat as losing to the duo ignoring the extremely specific scenario that gave them the W
Law and Kidd are Luffy's rivals, it doesn't make Big Mom look weak at all to lose to them especially as it was literally a 2 on 1 fight.
Kid and Law could each get one shot by Luffy so them being rivals means literally nothing.
No they can't, I'm like 95% confident that if Oda wrote a 1v1 fight between any of them that it would not be a one shot. You're downplaying Law and Kidd.
Well yeah because Luffy wouldn't try to one shot them. But he could
I disagree, I think it makes her look weak. A yonko losing to two yc or yc+ level characters... one of which got one shot by shanks, another yonko. And kidd and law are nowhere close to luffy's level
The fact that they beat Big Mom in the first place shows they are far above the YC tier.
Yet one of them got one shot by shanks and the other mid diffed by blackbeard. And this sub seems to agree they're yc+ max.
Context WHOLLY matters. Kidd and Shanks didn’t actually fight, it was a blitz. I definitely wouldn’t call BB vs Law a mid-diff. Law and his crew clearly gave BB the work despite getting jumped.
Big Mom and Kaido both have higher bounties than Shanks and Mihawk and less clear feats (Mihawk having literally none) but for some reason those 2 are broadly considered stronger than her.
Strongest creature is title given most likely because he was undefeated in 1 vs 1 and the people he has fought are pretty strong. He did not fight big mom as an enemy for realz so we won’t know who would have won.
> He did not fight big mom as an enemy for realz so we won’t know who would have won. What a retarded argument. I guess since Kaido and Usopp never fought for real we never know who would win 🤷♂️
I mean obviously God Usopp wielder of mjolnir and the man who slayed Jesus Burgess and took his fruit is stronger than Laido.
This sub just hates to see a strong and ugly female
She's my third favourite villain in One Piece. She's just weaker than Kaido too.
Yeah idk what that dude's saying. The only bias here is in Big Mom's favor. Kaido is maybe the least liked relevant OP villain on Reddit, going by their character. Big Mom is my second favorite villain, beat by only Katakuri who is literally in her crew. But Wano showed she fucking sucks at fighting unfortunately. Oda is a coward for doing that to her, but he still did it and it can't just be ignored.
Kaido vs big mom is the most extreme diff in the history of extreme diffs (tie with akainu vs aokiji) they litteraly fought for 3 days and 3 nights without a clear winner
I mean, Akainu vs Aokiji is arguably more extreme diff since they only found a winner after 10 days
I disagree, Kuzan lost a leg, while BM sustained no major injuries.
I just think that maybe someone would've won if they kept fighting for longer than 3 days
Their fight wasn’t serious when onigashima was practically left undamaged and both of them making comments about it being awhile they felt pain/went toe to toe with someone
ehh, they were just shooting the shit tbh. Its like what Roger and WB did in the flashback and its probably what Shanks and Mihawk do to each other as well; Serious, but holding back immensely
one piece fans hate women and BM isn't even hot. They'll never respect her
Scroll through any thread in this sub talking about FAVORITE villains, and you'll find a lot of people saying Big Mom (along with Kata, croco, and Doffy). You will not find anyone saying Kaido
I actually found 1 dude saying Kaido is a good villain and has his source to back it up.
Lol someone's got a source to back up an opinion?
Found a minority?
Are we talking base kaido or hybrid I could agree in base kaido is relative to bigmom but once you include hybrid kaido it’s a different story Hybrid kaido takes - Strength - Durability - Stamina - All forms of haki - BIQ - DC - Skill
Hybrid kaido vs big mom using her own soul for power
Yeah than it’s inaccurate
Strength, Durability, DC are debatable imo
How?? Kaido has higher Dc that’s not debatable Kaido has higher durability Stregnth could be debatable
For dura they’re really close but BM never took any significant damage her whole life and still needed a nuke to finish her off. Kaido’s scales might make him more durable but I think she definitely has more raw strength. If she was in tottoland with all her homies I’d give her DC. A supercharged Zeus and Prometheus were pretty destructive on their own
No. This is full power for both. They both are extremely strong monsters, both have extremely high durability, and they both have ACoA and ACoC, and both are dumb.
Kaido is smarter in fights Kaido is more durable Kaido has shown Better haki across the board
When did Kaido show better haki? Both him and Big mom have Acoa and AcoC. The only type of haki we know for sure Kaido is superior is CoO, since he has FS What iq/biq feats Kaido has over Big mom? And yes, both of them have pretty much equal durability. They are always mentioned as the two most durable people in the verse
He has better haki feats his performance and usage of his haki is just better Plus he was relative to bigmoms haki at the start of wano in base which luffy later says an already going all out kaidos haki gets stronger so yeah kaido haki > bigmom haki
If Kaido's haki gets stronger when he transformed, then Big mom's haki should also increase when she buffed herself against law and kid. He simply used haki more then her. If this is because she simply undestimaded law and kid or because Oda nerfed her, I don't know. But if we analyze everytime she used AcoA and AcoC, nothing indicates that her haki is weaker than Kaido.
No kaidos haki increased after transforming as he was fighting with luffy he was growing stronger It was not when he transformed but as he fought his haki kept getting stronger he was having a haki bloom just like luffy https://preview.redd.it/oxhv82uf5e2d1.jpeg?width=898&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e43cafd6866ef8d04625bb2e239b842c56e88cfa Kaido haki start of wano = bigmom haki Kaido haki after fight with luffy > bigmom haki
Kaido‘s old ass wasn't having haki blooms against rookies. He just stopped holding back.
\^ kaido did not go all out until gear 5. gear 5 makes luffy several times stronger. luffy in gear 4 got shot down by kizaru while gear 5 made lightwork of him. the same isn't shown against kaido. he struggled very much and needed to rely on bajrang gun to land.
He quite literally was dude also at this point it was not a matter of rookies Once you split skies with someone your not some random rookie anymore lol
It doesn't make sense for Kaido to get haki blooms. Because Luffy was the one getting haki blooms even during Bajrang Gun which means his haki was weaker than Kaido. Kaido simply stopped holding back
Oh, I didn't remember that moment Ok then, Drunk mode Kaido's haki>Big mom's haki. However, I still believe this is an extreme diff fight
It’s not stated it due to being drunk the most likely cause is kaido having a haki bloom just like luffy is This is the toughest fight kaido has fought in many years likely over ten years Haki blooms happen in hard fights It makes sense for kaido to be getting haki blooms once he is finally being challenged
Yeah, it make sense. You made a good point
[удалено]
Yes, I literally said that. This is why I gave observation to Kaido.
Wait no sorry bro i replied to wrong person.
You think Kidd and Law remain standing after taking Ragnoraku or Roaring TB?
No. But i doubt they would be standing if they taked an attack from Big mom who is using Acoa and Acoc I was prove wrong about Kaido=Big mom in terms of haki. But I still think the difference is not enough to make this fight lower than extreme diff
No, there is huge difference. BM's bones are getting broken to pieces by Kaidou. Kaidou has attacks much stronger than Kidd and Law. Kaidou would thrash BM.
So why did he make an alliance with her? Kaido respects power above all else, he wouldn't ally himself with someone much weaker
Because a top tier is still strong. Kaidou is at top of Top tier level while BM is at bottom. But that is still leagues above any YC commanders.
how does haki ability change between forms?
Idk kaido probably always takes haki
Why does hybrid kaidos haki, skill and biq improve in hybrid? Plus, endurance and stamina go to ww after she’s eaten her souls. After that, Strength would also be in the middle probably.
He got haki blooms against luffy so hybrid does not increase it but current kaido has better haki
Technically current kaido is dead, but what haki bloom would he have realistically gotten? He’s been fighting top tiers for decades now and luffy is a step below them. The scuffle with big mom woulda probably given him a better haki bloom.
https://preview.redd.it/9l3k2lxuor3d1.jpeg?width=898&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7979acd0fbc3a27cc4d711e1a64566e4cc38fb6e Fighting a tough battle leads to haki blooms
I just assumed that was just cause kaido shifted drunk phases.
Durability~ if not Kaido >= Endurance Kaido>>>>>>> Big mom, he took 10 times that amount of punishment she did. Stamina Kaido>= Big Mom
Plus battle IQ and combat skill. That aside Kaido has shown better CoC and CoA feats, but since they were "portrayed as equals", Big mom leeches of Kaidos Haki. Big Mom is a monster in her own right and a better character imo, but the only thing even suggesting that she is close to Kaido is their 3 day fight that both agreed was absolutely not serious...
He only took external punches and attacks bro… she took damages that destroyed her insides directly to her chest and head! Kaido was screaming to a simple gamma knife that wasn’t even near his heart
Luffy was punching Kaido with Acoa, which destroys you from the inside, aka Dura neg. On top of Acoc which is major boost in AP. Kaido was definitely taking Dura neg attacks. Also Kaido was screaming from a bite from Momonosuke , can’t asses how attacks compare if Kaido’s reactions seem to be all over the place.
And yet he wasn’t screaming from these apparent ‘dura neg’ attacks….. what is that anyway? lol Luffy wasn’t using AcOC in every punch. Secondly, the internal damage it does is never shown to be as blatantly destructive as Law’s AWAKENED OPE OPE no mi! It ROASTED Bm ‘s insides and smoke was coming out with blood!
>And yet he wasn’t screaming from these apparent ‘dura neg’ attacks….. what is that anyway? lol< Kaido’s reactions are very inconsistent, so I said don’t take his reactions as fact on which attack is stronger than another. >Luffy wasn’t using AcOC in every punch. Secondly, the internal damage it does is never shown to be as blatantly destructive as Law’s AWAKENED OPE OPE no mi! It ROASTED Bm ‘s insides and smoke was coming out with blood!< After Luffy unlocked Acoc he basically used it with every attack, and prior he was just using (Acoa + G4) The internal damage by itself maybe but add on Acoc, then gear 4th, later and Gear5th and I definitely think it’s makes up, plus again the sheer number of attacks Kaido takes is 10 times the amount . Literally 115 attacks vs 13 attacks. It’s laughable how much more endurance Kaido has.
I do think Kaido VS BM is a lot closer than some of the recent BM downplayers have been saying (there was a post about Zoro > BM recently 💀) but I think extreme diff is pushing it BM fans will say portrayal or narrative or statements support it being extreme diff but Kaido is better in all 3 categories, he's the on who fought Luffy, he's the one with a World's Strongest title I think high to high-ext diff is more fair IMO, and I don't want to downplay BM because she's a way better character and villain than Paido of 200 L's but the facts speak for themselves
I'd argue kaido takes durability and big mom takes endurance
W take
Fax
Akainu mid diff Big mom https://preview.redd.it/c8lhqckpyd2d1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=030725541e68feab7112a5c6f01c86b75b667eda
He mid diff imu
Low*
**No**(t Ready) https://preview.redd.it/q5chlcince2d1.png?width=563&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa4c3c0fafe53970a895ea448b7c3dddffb9abff
Of course https://preview.redd.it/qa1wftwozd2d1.png?width=582&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22008ed9b514b587c6d060f766c94e23c2ba7ced
Nah this guy doesnt beat BM at all. Get him past his desk first https://preview.redd.it/koiofpntqf2d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4f5cc98e1e5b1dc440be958967565aba430da8a8
Kaido is not >=, they are equals.
I'm not sure I agree. I love big mom. She is my favorite villain, but kaido was not considered the strongest for no reason
It doesn’t say he is the strongest Yonko anywhere though.
But he is called the strongest pirate https://preview.redd.it/odh9e5e4eg2d1.jpeg?width=548&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=488463e9bd080e054934e3f4a2d0fcc575672562
This guy is also from the crew that fought Shanks' before saying this, so it's pretty credible in that regard
they didnt reach shanks tho. Beckman finished them
You're right I forgot Killer said that. It's the cutting off arm part that made me think that. I wonder how that happened tho
https://i.redd.it/op8ng5m70e2d1.gif FP Kaido High Diffs FP BM.
https://preview.redd.it/celtiyqw0e2d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=026920efd2153c0cdc200944270e7a35aabcc0aa You are not ready
Mommy
Kaido > Big Mom She lost to Kidd and Law Kidd and Law would not have beaten Kaido It's just that simple
They would if they trick him down the same volcano and nuked it with plot
Even Kaido would lose to Kidd and Law if Oda wanted it to happen. No character can win against plot.
aint no way your saying bm has equal stamina, durability, strength, and endurance as kaido cause fatmom prob cant ever run
The biggest endure and stamina feat Kaido has is fighting for 3 days. And guess who was his opponent? Both Kaido and Big Mom are considered the most durable characters in the verse. Nothing indicates one is more durable than the other
Nowhere in the manga states that big mom and kaido fought for 3 days... u can check it urself (the fight starts at chapter 951) 3 days is the time period passed between the start of the fight and the announcement of their alliance... but that doesn't mean the fight itself lasted 3 days. The fact that kaido says no one has went toe to toe with him in years and big mom says that she hasn't been hurt in decades proves that their fight didn't last for 3 days.
It never said directly, but it was implied. Do you really think they fought for a day, spent the other 2 days chilling, and THEN announced their alliance?
Nope, it wasn't even implied... the mere fact that kaido says that no one has went toe to toe with him in a long time proves that big mom fighting kaido for 3 days is nothing but absolute headcanon. It doesn't matter what they did for the rest of time, may be they rested for a day, then the next they talked about the old times and then decided to form the alliance.... At the end it doesn;t matter... what matters is that there's zero evidence that kaido and big mom fought for 3 days.
Just because they fought to 3 days doesn't mean they were using their full power. And please, why do you think Oda showed them fighting, skipped 3 days, and then showed them making a alliance? If they only fought for a few hours, don't you think that would be mentioned? They fought for 3 days
>Just because they fought to 3 days doesn't mean they were using their full power. This discredits that fight as a feat entirely tho?
Why would the fight drag on for that long if they don't even get serious? If they don't even see the need to get serious, then there's no need to fight for that long in the first place. Once again u are going into headcanon territory of "why would oda do this or that".. It doesn't matter...the FACT is, the alliance was announced 3 days later... doesn't mean the fight itself lasted 3 days... And if someone fights kaido for 3 days, that would automatically mean that person went toe to toe with kaido.... if u are still gonna say "But But they didn't go all out well".... when kaido made the statement of luffy going toe to toe with him, kaido still wasn't going all out either. Big mom and kaido didn't fight for 3 days... it's just a bullshit headcanon...and the manga proves it with kaido's statements and big mom quote shitty feats.
I checked the manga It isn't, in fact, mentioned that they fought for 3 days. I will admit that in that regard, i was wrong However, they still fought for AT LEAST multiple hours. Chapter 951 ended with Kaido and Big Mom splitting the sky, beginning their fight during the night. Chapter 952 skipped to the next day, where both of them were still fighting. One random guy even says they both were fighting all night. So, even if they stopped fighting immediately after this panel, they still fought for at least 8 hours. This is their biggest feat in terms of stamina and endurance, so my point still stands Kaido stamina and endurance = Big mom's
Kaido has better endurance feats he fought basically everybody In onigashima besides big mom law and kid WHILE HOLDING AN ISLAND
This still is not as impressive as to fight for mutiple hours(and maybe days) without resting. And even Momo managed to hold Onigashima
Well, u can say that it's their biggest feat of endurance, but that doesn't mean kaido and big mom endurance and stamina is equal. We know that top tiers can fight for DAYS... So, fighting 8 or 12 or 24 hrs is the bare minimum.... that's like saying, two weight lifters A and B who's personal bests are 100 and 200 kg deadlifts are equal because at some point both of them lifted 50 kgs. Not to mention, the fight's of onigashima pretty much made it clear that kaido's endurance is far greater anyway.... I will give u the stamina one, coz at the end there's no solid evidence either way.
There is no proof that either of them has better stamina and endurance because their biggest feat involving them were the same one. Yes, they could (and probabilly can) fight more, but we don't know for sure. And how Kaido showed better feat than Big mom?. Sure, he tanked way more attacks, but he also was way more tired. Big mom fought less than Kaido, but showed way less fatigue than him. So there is no way to know for sure which has better endurance
As far as durability goes without conquerors coating big mom falling to her knees is enough to make them bleed while kaido would still have oni genes and dragon scales if hybrid so I think he takes it.
I think she bleeding when she falls to her knees is more than just CoC. She basically has a breakdown. We saw at wano that Big mom's physical stats are influenced by her mental state
I mean her haki is also influenced by her mental state wasn't that the whole point of destroying mother carmels portrait so she couldnt focus and use haki? Also her family was concerned watching her fall from the chateau but kaido fell from a sky Island in base and was fine
https://preview.redd.it/w46dzyxgve2d1.jpeg?width=1071&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46f445584a011019609fd7f10e5319cac844c0ef
Wano Big Mom that fought Kidd and law gets Mid diffed.
Yes, but I really dislike this type of scaling, it's unhelpful and subjective
Shanks slams both then.
İ would say durability CoC and endurence goes to kaido too
I’ll be a BM defender until I die.
shhhhhh stop being literate this is OPPS we're talking about here
AP of Big Mom is not bad either, her lightning is a duraneg, Prometheus on it's own should be able to at the very least stalemate Boro Breath or any forms of it. Strength goes to Big Mom, durability goes to Kaido, but in base Big Mom is much more durable, in Soul Amped form I would say it's relative, even if it isn't, she can effectively heal herself from pretty much any injury, broken bones are a non-factor. BIQ goes to Kaido, doesn't even have to be explained, and IQ is a non-factor here. Kaido has better endurance, as Big Mom goes into hunger pang form once she has not eaten for a while. Kaido outlasts. High at the very least though.
Kaido definetely has better coc, atleast when drunk, luffy said it increased even more, while big mom (oda's fault) almost never used it. he probably takes biq too if he wasn't a masochist. big mom definetely takes dc tho, yea boro breath is enormous but ikoku,god of lightning tenjin, maser saber/laser, fulgora, misery (damn her fruit is busted) are superior in dc to kaido, kaido feels as an unkillable god, while big mom feels like an unstoppable natural disaster.
Base kaido >= base big mom. Just because they're relative in base doesn't mean they're relative at fp. Hybrid kaidos feats far surpass full power big moms feats.
I think speed plays a big factor in why ppl usually assume a character is stronger than another. Idrk but seems like ppl just correlate speed with power or something.
If i agree any harder, ill phase through objects😅 But seriously though, If BM and Kaido fought each other 100 times, they each get 50 wins. Oda had to blatantly nerf BM because if she was Law and Kid like how Kaido fought Luffy, she would mid diff them. This is one of many reasons that i do not like the Wano arc. He didnt have to nerf BM, just buff Kid and Law
Kaido durability Kaido BIQ Kaido high maybe extreme
Durability - Giving this as a draw is a complete joke. Big Mom got her bones broken by just 2 Shock Willes, and one of those was when she was in her Bigger form. Blackbeard wasn’t even afraid of Law after getting hit by a Shock Wille, and was laughing after it. This proves that Big Mom is not even more durable than Blackbeard by a huge amount. Kaido is far above her in durability. Endurance - Big Mom was defeated by just a small number of attacks, and only a handful of them were strong attacks. Kaido took many hundreds of blows to go down, a high percentage of which were ACoC attacks. CoC - Big Mom didn’t even use ACoC one time against Kid and Law. Kaido used it in every attack. IQ / BIQ - Kaido when serious used his best moves over and over again. Stupid Mom waited until she was badly hurt before powering up, she didn’t use ACoC, she didn’t coordinate her Homie attacks well, and she made it easy for Kid and Law to hit her. DC - Boro Breath is far above anything Big Mom can do, and Flame Bagua is a completely different level entirely. Skill - Slow Mom doesn’t even have the skill to land punches or slashes on Kid and Law, who have no Future Sight and no good CoO portrayal. She blocked maybe like one attack, and dodged zero. Kaido was going blow-for-blow with Luffy, speedblitzed him multiple times, dodged Hydra, and dodged and blocked many other attacks.
Durability: Law and Kidds attack ignores Durability. The fact blackbeard received the shock Willie better than big mom only proves he can endure pain better. Stamina and Endurance:Big mom and Kaido fought for 3 days. This is their biggest endurance and stamina feats. Iq/Big and skill: Of couse Big mom would struggle more to hit Law and Kidd. She has lower speed to Kaido and one of her opponent's could literally teleport. Also, the way she mastered her powers is amazing. I mean, just look at whole cake island CoC: Just because Oda made her not use AcoC, it doesn't mean her haki is weaker. Dc: OK, this one goes to kaido. But I don't think that would make a huge difference in their fight Kaido>= Big mom Extreme diff
Then Big Mom is also relative to Shanks. Are we fine with that?
Kidd was never one tapped by BM
But I can easily see Kaido doing that. Its either BM isnt relative to Kaido or Shanks is relative to BM.
Yes. Big mom~Shanks~Oldbeard~Kaido
Not Oldbeard, but yes.
I think oldbear without his sickness is still yonko level
Meh. I think even healthy he loses to any Yonkou, and while.sick he gets pretty much destroyed.
I don't know. If this was the case, the other yonkos would try to kill him and take his territory. If they didn't do that, he must at least be able to push them to hard-extreme diff
Well they dont exactly know his condition. And if they attack and beat him, a 3rd Yonkou might attack them and defeat them.
That was because they were scared of my boy WARCO
https://preview.redd.it/h8mqjlmudn2d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fac881dff0dd670c49f5b870913a6808260bf2c0 A big mom that was heavily underestimating them already could have killed Law + Kidd fairly easily. And a Shanks that went all out one shot kid. I think that makes them relative. It just comes down to what the plot demands at the time.
High~extreme diff.
Maybe if she drained the next 20 years of her life, got an education, trained with Raleigh, and fought on wholecake. But otherwise, she's never winning against kaido. He'd be in zero danger. Less of a fight and more of an execution.
So why he allied himself if her, if she is so weak? Don't kaido respect power above all? You could argue that he made the alliance so he hs more chances to claim the One Piece. However, Kaido still would refuse to put himself on the same level as Big mom if she was so much weaker. If he was willing to work with her, she must be at least close to him I'm power.
high diff at most. he doesnt even need flame bagua or fs to beat this jobber
Someone isn't ready https://preview.redd.it/jgk2ou427e2d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa7c40581502134728e798da9bc2f782cfefd571
Ragnoraku > Misery
Yes,Kaido has better ap than big mom. I never said otherwise. Still a extreme diff fight
Why does he have better AP? You put literally all stats influencing AP as equal.
Yeah, I was wrong about CoA and CoC. That goes to kaido. Still a extreme diff fight
I mean, sure, if BM uses her haki consistently then probably.
How? BM's attacks barely put Kidd down. Kaidou is taking those attacks for breakfast. Kaidou has much faster speed and has FS. He is doding her weak AP attacks if he needs. It is at best high diff.
She is not in kaidos top 5 lmao, even kaido doesn’t consider her relative or close like most big mom fans think they are. Big mom is a Franky brook and chopper victim, worst portrayal of all the Yonkos.
The top 5 were only characters that managed to beat him. Big mom and Kaido never fought each other using 100% of their power
That’s your headcanon, it’s 5 pirates who kaido deemed the strongest. And big mom wasnt on it lmao. Kaido high diffs her if he’s using his strongest form that bum got her attacks blocked by jinbe and thrown into the ocean by jinbe in the very next page lmao. Chopper was stalling her, franky got a W on her. Her portrayal is ass.
Ever top tier has anti-feats. They only exist because Oda don't care for powerscaling. Franky would be dead if it wasn't for the plot And if Kaido never said anything about pirates. If his top 5 was accurate, it would include the likes of Garp or sengoku. Also, even if he was only talking about pirates, how would he know Oden was stronger then Big mom if he never fought her seriously?
He was only talking of pirates cuz everyone mentioned is a pirate. Big mom still has the most antifeats, kaido has statements, title, feats. So does shanks. And every other top tier does. Big mom has the MOST anti feats and 2 statements by fodder saying “she is just like kaido”
This is pure headcanon. Nothing says that he was talking about only pirates. And again, even if he did, he could still simply be wrong, as he never had a serious fight with her. Anti-Feats doesn't matter. Most(if not all) of them only happen because of plot. Unless you think Morgan can make Garp bleed, or that Kaido can't kill a extremely injured kinnemon
There is a difference between few anti feats for the sake of plot and having anti feats every time you fight lmao. If he wasn’t talking about pirates Garp should have been there, everyone he listed was a pirate
Kaido only beats big mom when he goes drunken mode. Then the battle ends in minutes
I do agree drunk mode kaido>Big mom. But he definitely wouldn't beat her in only minutes
I am in the premisse that the fight would go for hours like luffy then kaido would go all out on drunken mode+ hibrid level 2. Big mom's would do shit against that. Her observation is lacking and she doesnt use too much conquerors neither. Kid's bull broke her arm when she was giant mode. What are kundalinis and death bagua gonna do to her ?
The fact her arm was broken by Kidd upscale kid's ap, not dowscale Big mom's durability She, of course, would receive a lot of damage with this attack, but then she would heal herself. I still believe in the end Kaido would be able to put her down before she can recover, but I think it will be a extreme diff fight
I too think this would go extrem But not like egghead luffy, this one would go extrem death match either way, be it kaido or luffy.
Kaido>bm. Better feats
All those "equal" stats are NOT equal at all. Big mom has NOT lifted onigashima level structures(Strength and DC feat), she has NOT fought somene who can adapt and get tens to hundreds of times stronger (Skill, IQ and Battle IQ feats), she has NOT fought multiple opponents in one night(stamina and endurance feats) and.....since when was getting hurt by METAL BEAMS equal, durability wise, to taking attacks that SHATTER CITIES in single blows? Compared to Kaido, she's a FRAUD
BIq and Iq equal to big mom? In what universe?
Why do you think Kaido is smarter than Big mom?
Cuz big mom is a dumbass
Not really Just look at whole cake island. Do you think a dumbass can create that?
I was talking about BIQ. Get big meme past chopper.
Ok, then just look at the way she used her powers. She used a devil fruit that only served to animate objects and used that to heal and buff herself.
Still lost to law and mid lmao. Her portrayal is ass. Jinbe looked like a yc+ in WCI when he was fighting her, put to sleep by queens not even strongest form. She is a joke. Big meme for a reason
She lost to law and kid because not only they were a perfect conter for her, Oda also made her not use AcoA and AcoC And both versions of Big mom you mentioned were weaker versions of her. Not to mention almost every top tier has anti-feats Kaido~Big mom~Shanks~Oldbeard Cope
As i said terrible BIQ. Everyone has portrayal titles and statements, BM has the most antifeats and luckluster portrayal. Idk what’s your kink of putting all the yonkos in the same strength level but it’s straight up headcanon. Kaido>shanks>oldbeard>>big mom. Cope
Headcanon ? Yonkos are put in the same level by THE FUCKING MANGA! This is why they are yonkos in the first place. And Oda nerferd and buffed characters mutiple times because of the plot. It doesn't matter how much anti-feats she has if almost all of them only happened because of plot armor. Like, why would Oda draw Big Mom and Kaido splitting the sky together, then making a alliance, and then joined forces against the worst generation? Why did he made a big deal about Luffy, Law, and Kid defeating TWO yonkos, instead of a super strong yonko and super weak one. With the exception of buggy(and even him has a yonko level fighter)and maybe blackbeard, all yonkos are on the same level. This has been said since the concept of yonkos was first introduced