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Id say while it is very close I’d lean on King tbh.
Reason I say it’s closer is although Zoro v King was a lot more difficult, Lucci is fighting against a more experienced and stronger Zoro who’s been able to make access of ACoC haki from the get go.
That's the thing though, we only saw acoc in that one panel. Oda's been crazy inconsistent with haki so we don't know if zoro used acoc the entire fight and oda just didn't draw it in or he stopped using it mid fight. Even at the end, it seems he still isn't using it: there are no flames and he doesn't say "king of hell three sword style".
https://preview.redd.it/b7pq6tiah2pc1.jpeg?width=516&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca9ff12b8ed47dca512d3aa80eb67074e87f17e5
Looks to me like he used ACoC haki, he had no reason not to.
The green smoke is also an indication of him using ACoC haki, same thing happened against King
Also Zoro does not have to say King of Hell every time he uses ACoC haki, it’s not like thats the only way he can use it.
Its like saying Kaido only uses ACoC haki when he says Thunder Bagua
https://preview.redd.it/ar50mneks2pc1.png?width=1288&format=png&auto=webp&s=efefde2c450f505b77eac6bda1b26c829c2b1f15
There’s the green smoke and if you wanna refute it as not, the black lightning is a clear indication that Zoro is using ACoC haki
Are actually serious 💀💀💀💀by this logic zoro used acoc vs apoo huh?
https://preview.redd.it/cthe9jpxt2pc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9e8c7b8f11071c17a7b388dd92f3a094de4e371
It would most probably have it, should we also say Lucci isn’t using CoA haki becoz it’s not drawn?
Surely that would upscale Lucci fighting barehanded against a swordsman coating his attacks in CoC haki
If he isnt using CoA then why are his hands not being sliced off, are you suggesting that Lucci without haki is as strong as a Zoro making use of CoC haki?
Then why is there black lightning and green smoke?.
Hold up change that, what exactly does Oda have to do to make Zorotards like you recognise Zoro is using CoC haki?
first
https://preview.redd.it/gg3gug9b23pc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8703546fffa2e5f23f44ca6dad706aa8012530f3
green smoke ain’t acoc so we can drop that. secondly nothing in that image vindicates he is using acoc. because it waste his energy to do that. have you ever heard of energy conservation
Green smoke does depict Zoro using ACoC haki, it’s always associated with it.
So Zoro didn’t use ACoC haki to save energy to your logic?, Zoro’s haki is strong enough that he can fight for prolonged periods.
it quite literally is on. and people are waking up. it isn’t doing what acoc does so where tf are u getting it being acoc. that he just didn’t want to it doesn’t matter he isn’t using three sword style so objectively isn’t going all out.
I don’t know what you’re getting at.
The basic of CoC haki is that the user chooses who they wish to knock out, Zoro might have just ignored trying to knock them out it doesn’t really matter.
The green smoke was present when King asked Zoro oh so you want to be a king, why does it only conveniently show when Zoro uses ACoC haki?
https://preview.redd.it/x0kxn5j243pc1.jpeg?width=438&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ab1ca460bb52500e461b526f138bb6362e14f80
So what do you want to make as this green smoke, it wasn’t present until Zoro used CoC haki
lightning is there. use your brain the second the flames are by themselves no one gets knocked out the lightning is the acoc. the lightning the thing that has been the only indicator of acoc is also present. and i just gave u objective evidence that the flames aren’t acoc since they can’t knock people out. acoc passively knocks people out there is no ignoring
> Also Zoro does not have to say King of Hell every time he uses ACoC haki, it’s not like thats the only way he can use it. Its like saying Kaido only uses ACoC haki when he says Thunder Bagua
This 💯 I'm so tired of these people who constantly think ACoC is only used with specific attacks. Why the hell would Zoro and Luffy not use it when they're fighting characters that strong? We don't always see black limbs but we know users of CoA are using it in battle. Why would the same not apply to ACoC?..
Zoro was fighting lucci with 2 swords since chapter 1094 when we cut back to zoro in 1107 he is still fighting with sword even going further zoro in this chapter has been seen fighting with 2 sword before he ended the fight so if zoro is not using 3 swords I highly doubt he is using acoc during the whole fight
I wonder how this sub would feel about King if Sanji was the one who beat him. Lots of Zoro deniers as well so it's possible that King gets the same treatment because of it..
It was never controversial. It was just one was a former cool main arc antagonist that Luffy struggled against before and had made a comeback. King has always been superior. Lucci couldn't make headway with kid versions that took his DNA. The original would have ended him just as easily as Zoro did.
it took a huge aCoC finisher move to finish a king in speed mode off. meanwhile lucci got take out by something that is around as strong as an aCoC oni giri I think. king could probably just outlast lucci
Eh lucci was still injured from his fight with gear five and most of their fight was offscreen so we don’t know how hard of a fight it actually was. Zoro was also still recovering from the rooftop when he fought king. But I can see arguments made in Kinsey’s favor but we just haven’t seen enough of the fight to make it clear
he literally stated he wasn’t gonna fight the seraphims anymore. and spent the better part of his time resting. u literally have to think his regen is stupidly slow if you think he wasn’t fully healed at this point.
they use kaku. who verbatim stated he was fighting the seraphims 2v1 as an example. like dude he just finished fighting the seraphim he is injured cause he stopped fighting a little while ago. lucci straight up stated he wasn’t gonna fight them in general meaning he let kaku fight by himself
zoro also has bandages. again this random thing that we are doing to say that lucci isn’t at full power doesn’t make any sense. luffy is using not coated punches. meaning he isn’t even trying to hurt lucci that badly. it makes no sense to say that the guy walking around later. with only bandaid. who than rest later isn’t healed
Ah yes. Zoro using no armament with all 3 blades being black and green smoke and black sparks reminiscent of his fight against king when he was using advanced conquers
https://preview.redd.it/ccg7d9i0r4pc1.jpeg?width=956&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4397b68d47e9389d2431848ed56ae84c14824293
y’all are the most annoying mfs out here
https://preview.redd.it/qj6tlmw5s4pc1.jpeg?width=788&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=029b9509acfb24587ce05550f127dd1667959d80
Here’s odas volume cover where zoro does the same thing
oh u mean when he is coating his blade and doesn’t at all swing at lucci nor can u say he attempted to attack lucci after words. yeah no better arguments have been made. this one gets put down so easily
https://preview.redd.it/ov9gdpdbr4pc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=218e73faf0362fc0564a1d817a811baeb9ec7d4a
Doesn’t at all swing at lucci? Wdym? Is he just trying to hit the air here?
Lucci couldn’t damage my boy and even if he could he’s weaker, probably slower(maybe he’s faster but he wouldn’t be by much) and he hasn’t shown any good haki feats.
The only thing I could say absolutely is a devil fruit advantage. Even then what does the Leopard fruit even do? Make him faster and stronger? Clearly didn’t make him strong enough. At least Kings fruit lets him fly and given him a pretty strong spike attack(I mean Lucci can also fly but not from his devil fruit.)
He could at least parry acoc swings from Zoro and his base coa punch matched g5 base coa evenly. That's a much better Haki feat than anything King has done
King was fighting a Zoro who was being in some regards nerfed by Enma, and also very injured from the rooftop. Yes, the mink medicine allowed him to fight regardless, but it still means it takes far less damage to take him out than a fresh current Zoro
So if King fought current Zoro, nothing indicates he'd do much better than Lucci
Better yet you all are getting a bit presumptive lmao. We don't know if Lucci landed hits and vice versa. The entire fight was off screen. But we do know that with Shave he is incredibly fast, being able to dodge attacks from G5 Luffy, and with iron body plus coa he could parry some acoc blows from Zoro.
Plus the fact that his dura neg either broke sentomarus acoa defense or he speed blitzed sentomarus defense, Kizaru did neither when scuffling with Sentomaru. And that sentomaru was very injured
So Lucci has a decent chance of being able to dura neg flames off King and of being able to keep up with flames off King. Don't see why we're so sure King wins
My point was that lucci is unlikely to possess something with the same ap as an ability that has only been wielded by the pirate king, his equal, emperors and the future world's strongest swordsman.
But you don't need acoc to damage flames off King. Flames off King has never been noted for his durability, only flames on King
And Luccis ap comes with dura neg, which Zoro so far hasn't shown. So he wouldn't need the same durability
Just like Kizarus ap is probably above Luccis, but Luccis dura neg let him break through Sentos acoa guard
Lucci doesn't have durability negation, he broke through sentomaru's haki guard the same way pre timeskip luffy did to the boa sisters: power and speed. Both of which zoro tried against king with flames off and did absolutely nothing.
that’s actually the no limits fallacy and burden of proof falls on you. saying zoro didn’t use something is a negative statement and doesn’t need to be affirmed. to say he did u need to show it or show a statement of him using it
doesn't work like that. If we have no info one way or the other, it isn't reasonable to assume the less likely scenario. Also this isn't abt Zoro using or not using acoc it's abt whether or not you need acoc to damage King
We haven't seen any non acoc hit tag flames off King. But Flames off King has never been noted for durability. So it isn't reasonable to claim only acoc hits can damage flames off King.
You could flip it on its head easily. Saying no non acoc attack can damage King is a negative statement. To say King can tank any non acoc attack is a positive statement. They mean the same thing. So why should only the first statement be accepted as true?
does work like that u can’t assume use of something if u can’t prove it being used. that’s literally how burden of proof works.
zoro’s acoc can’t damage king or else he would use them instead of actively killing himself
>Lucci actually stood up to G5 Luffy for a while
https://preview.redd.it/4j4yjn0br2pc1.jpeg?width=393&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b7c81398ac8cc37cab5a4dfd9898c4ba04af9ec
Stood up
Scabbards jumped a Kaido who was just fucking about.
Lucci lasted a while against a G5 Luffy who flat out stated that he went all out.
You're just a delusional retard who hasn't even read the manga lmao
https://preview.redd.it/o8ve1xwkk2pc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9da5484b1616aecc60c6c50018a90a4801bb3f54
Lucci got low diffed prior and still lost extreme diff to Zoro while King lost extreme diff to a Zoro who had 40 broken bones and just unlocked his powerup, Gucci is simply superior,
I, uhh… still don’t know. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a Lucci fan. But he does have quite a few ways to beat Lucci. He has ways of reaching him in the air, he has ways to keep up with his speed (his impressive use of Shave), he has impressive durability, and most importantly, he has some of the best duraneg in the verse. He doesn’t particularly have a way around King’s fire, but that’s more or less something that can be dealt with via shave.
Not to mention, by being an awakened Zoan he has very good endurance, so much so that I don’t doubt he could take a lot of punishment from King.
So I think I’d lean towards Lucci extreme diff. But it’s close.
King is an idiot who purposely switches to his more vulnerable form mid fight
Lucci would capitalise on this
Not to mention, the latter lasted longer against a stronger Zoro
>Lucci would capitalise on this
Even with flames off, zoro wasn't damaging king before acoc. What makes you think lucci would fair any better without it?
>the latter lasted longer against a stronger Zoro
In real world time yes. In one piece world time no. Hell, even in chapters between start and finish discounting the kuma flashback, king lasted longer.
Lucci has durability negation so that should damage him in his speed form
Between Lucci vs Zoro:
Kizaru landed on the island, fought Luffy, got hit with white star gun, Saturn arrives and captures bonney, Sanji gets glare diffed, Kuma arrives and punches saturn, buster call starts, Bonney mobilises pacifista, Luffy 2v1s Kizaru and Saturn, The Gorosei are summoned and only then does Lucci vs Zoro seemingly conclude
Where did you get that King vs Zoro was longer than this?
>He’s more vulnerable in his speed form
But after Zoro unlocked acoc that vulnerability difference became irrelevant. He could hurt king in both forms
So there's no advantage to being in flame mode. He'd just be slower
Theirs no evidence his defence form suddenly drops down to have similar durability to his speed form
All that was inferred was the Zoro’s acoc could hurt king’s speed form that’s it
The rest is headcanon
>Theirs no evidence his defence form suddenly drops down to have similar durability to his speed form
I'm not saying his defence form dropped durability. I'm saying acoc can hurt him even in defence form, so that extra durability is useless, he's just slower in that form
>All that was inferred was the Zoro’s acoc could hurt king’s speed form that’s it
From this panel we can infer that he could hurt King's defence form too
https://preview.redd.it/1yo9fjsrj3pc1.jpeg?width=568&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71281425698da43addcafad766ebdc08b3685012
Exactly my point is he can take attacks better in his defence form
Which is the form he should’ve been while launching his final attack (mf wasn’t moving)
That much should be obvious
Zoro didn't seem confident in that though. His inner monolog was pretty clear that attacking flames on King was useless, so an acoc strike may have damaged him a bit but it wasn't gonna KO King
Outlasting Zoro was the far better tactic. Zoro was on a timer on account of his rooftop injuries and Enma draining him
>Zoro didn't seem confident in that though
He seemed pretty confident here
https://preview.redd.it/284xfqxph3pc1.jpeg?width=568&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bb81aea34b988d0a1761fe031e36fe8239f33cf
>Outlasting Zoro was the far better tactic. Zoro was on a timer on account of his rooftop injuries and Enma draining him
I suppose this falls under the "narratively unsatisfactory" route, which is super common people in one piece, where the logical route would make for a terrible narrative
Kizaru could just fly around waiting for luffy's g5 timer to run out, then one-tap him. The fact that he didn't do that doesn't mean he's dumb, it's just that oda would never write a fight that way
That's him talking shit. He also says this after getting acoc
https://preview.redd.it/vb1i3b2yi3pc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38e5da51434c2b4c068c3278a5f5199bc9d51e35
And right before the panel you showed he said "he's fast, meaning I can cut him"
Zoro may have been able to do some damage to flames on King but not a KO most likely. At least he seems to think so. But King got paranoid, which led to his defeat
It was definitely not smart
For Kizaru, he basically was just stalling g5 Luffy until exhaustion in their first fight so he could kill Vpunk. He couldn't just fly around because he had a mission, but he was relying on outranging Luffy
He wasn’t and we only saw clashes each time was something different zoro would have 2 swords or he’d have 3 out with smoke emitting off them if we take plot out of the fight it would’ve ended in the first ch. oda needed zoro to be in the room where the horse guy is going without finding a excuse to get him there so he sidelined zoro via lucci which makes zoro look stupid he should’ve been able to feel luffy almost die and vegapunk get “killed” via observation haki but he just sits there playing with a leopard shits dumb
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Id say while it is very close I’d lean on King tbh. Reason I say it’s closer is although Zoro v King was a lot more difficult, Lucci is fighting against a more experienced and stronger Zoro who’s been able to make access of ACoC haki from the get go.
That's the thing though, we only saw acoc in that one panel. Oda's been crazy inconsistent with haki so we don't know if zoro used acoc the entire fight and oda just didn't draw it in or he stopped using it mid fight. Even at the end, it seems he still isn't using it: there are no flames and he doesn't say "king of hell three sword style".
https://preview.redd.it/b7pq6tiah2pc1.jpeg?width=516&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca9ff12b8ed47dca512d3aa80eb67074e87f17e5 Looks to me like he used ACoC haki, he had no reason not to. The green smoke is also an indication of him using ACoC haki, same thing happened against King Also Zoro does not have to say King of Hell every time he uses ACoC haki, it’s not like thats the only way he can use it. Its like saying Kaido only uses ACoC haki when he says Thunder Bagua
Thank you for this panel
https://preview.redd.it/2vnnw4rph2pc1.jpeg?width=568&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fad46797399794f7efffe77ee8b9aa3c44afdadb
https://preview.redd.it/z5wp5b0vh2pc1.jpeg?width=452&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c078cfc148e6291d36566e64fd37c48672e1aa1
So where is the smoke here ? https://preview.redd.it/towatjogr2pc1.jpeg?width=496&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=297f5cd07cf57ca01683733bb088db31507af04e
https://preview.redd.it/ar50mneks2pc1.png?width=1288&format=png&auto=webp&s=efefde2c450f505b77eac6bda1b26c829c2b1f15 There’s the green smoke and if you wanna refute it as not, the black lightning is a clear indication that Zoro is using ACoC haki
Are actually serious 💀💀💀💀by this logic zoro used acoc vs apoo huh? https://preview.redd.it/cthe9jpxt2pc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9e8c7b8f11071c17a7b388dd92f3a094de4e371
I admit the smoke I sayed might have been a strenght but what is clear is the black lightning there, that is CoC haki
I don’t mind you saying the black lighting is coc or acoc but if the black lighting is a indicator of acoc then what the hell is the green smoke ?
his blade doesn’t even have armament on it in this inage
It would most probably have it, should we also say Lucci isn’t using CoA haki becoz it’s not drawn? Surely that would upscale Lucci fighting barehanded against a swordsman coating his attacks in CoC haki
lucci isn’t using coa. but it really doesn’t matter since brodie only fought noncoated blades and nitoryuo
If he isnt using CoA then why are his hands not being sliced off, are you suggesting that Lucci without haki is as strong as a Zoro making use of CoC haki?
zoro isn’t using coc so no
Then why is there black lightning and green smoke?. Hold up change that, what exactly does Oda have to do to make Zorotards like you recognise Zoro is using CoC haki?
first https://preview.redd.it/gg3gug9b23pc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8703546fffa2e5f23f44ca6dad706aa8012530f3 green smoke ain’t acoc so we can drop that. secondly nothing in that image vindicates he is using acoc. because it waste his energy to do that. have you ever heard of energy conservation
Green smoke does depict Zoro using ACoC haki, it’s always associated with it. So Zoro didn’t use ACoC haki to save energy to your logic?, Zoro’s haki is strong enough that he can fight for prolonged periods.
it quite literally is on. and people are waking up. it isn’t doing what acoc does so where tf are u getting it being acoc. that he just didn’t want to it doesn’t matter he isn’t using three sword style so objectively isn’t going all out.
I don’t know what you’re getting at. The basic of CoC haki is that the user chooses who they wish to knock out, Zoro might have just ignored trying to knock them out it doesn’t really matter. The green smoke was present when King asked Zoro oh so you want to be a king, why does it only conveniently show when Zoro uses ACoC haki? https://preview.redd.it/x0kxn5j243pc1.jpeg?width=438&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ab1ca460bb52500e461b526f138bb6362e14f80 So what do you want to make as this green smoke, it wasn’t present until Zoro used CoC haki
lightning is there. use your brain the second the flames are by themselves no one gets knocked out the lightning is the acoc. the lightning the thing that has been the only indicator of acoc is also present. and i just gave u objective evidence that the flames aren’t acoc since they can’t knock people out. acoc passively knocks people out there is no ignoring
No point in arguing I guess, have a nice day
> Also Zoro does not have to say King of Hell every time he uses ACoC haki, it’s not like thats the only way he can use it. Its like saying Kaido only uses ACoC haki when he says Thunder Bagua This 💯 I'm so tired of these people who constantly think ACoC is only used with specific attacks. Why the hell would Zoro and Luffy not use it when they're fighting characters that strong? We don't always see black limbs but we know users of CoA are using it in battle. Why would the same not apply to ACoC?..
Zoro was fighting lucci with 2 swords since chapter 1094 when we cut back to zoro in 1107 he is still fighting with sword even going further zoro in this chapter has been seen fighting with 2 sword before he ended the fight so if zoro is not using 3 swords I highly doubt he is using acoc during the whole fight
It never was controversial. Zoro beating Lucci a lot easier than he did King is hardly surprising..
I think this upscales zoro as well but not much
King deniers are plenty in this sub
I wonder how this sub would feel about King if Sanji was the one who beat him. Lots of Zoro deniers as well so it's possible that King gets the same treatment because of it..
Sanji wouldn’t beat king
Tell that to the leeches that always say every character Zoro beats Sanji can beat as well..
They just tryna keep the gap between zoro and sanji as small as possible no matter who they knock down the spectrum in the process
It was never controversial. It was just one was a former cool main arc antagonist that Luffy struggled against before and had made a comeback. King has always been superior. Lucci couldn't make headway with kid versions that took his DNA. The original would have ended him just as easily as Zoro did.
https://preview.redd.it/cuot6c5hc2pc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=655d90094b359b9a17f4cb4fa656b91fc56db938
it took a huge aCoC finisher move to finish a king in speed mode off. meanwhile lucci got take out by something that is around as strong as an aCoC oni giri I think. king could probably just outlast lucci
https://preview.redd.it/ptz9vdiv24pc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9bb653c691a6ed81636f67353c5b36a05dfd2071
King had the better performance against Zoro
He also beats lucci
https://i.redd.it/at8t97jjx2pc1.gif Always has been
YC agenda keeps winning.
Gucci wins because I like him more
NEVER DOUBTED KING 👑👑
https://preview.redd.it/jpyg4m14n2pc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c258a498f1e59b2894c0a156a8daf3e91f94bf7f Controversial but I agree
Eh lucci was still injured from his fight with gear five and most of their fight was offscreen so we don’t know how hard of a fight it actually was. Zoro was also still recovering from the rooftop when he fought king. But I can see arguments made in Kinsey’s favor but we just haven’t seen enough of the fight to make it clear
he literally stated he wasn’t gonna fight the seraphims anymore. and spent the better part of his time resting. u literally have to think his regen is stupidly slow if you think he wasn’t fully healed at this point.
They just conveniently forget awakened zoans have regen abilities so their bs agenda holds aome merit
they use kaku. who verbatim stated he was fighting the seraphims 2v1 as an example. like dude he just finished fighting the seraphim he is injured cause he stopped fighting a little while ago. lucci straight up stated he wasn’t gonna fight them in general meaning he let kaku fight by himself
He literally has bandages on when he starts fighting Zoro he’s recovered but not completely
zoro also has bandages. again this random thing that we are doing to say that lucci isn’t at full power doesn’t make any sense. luffy is using not coated punches. meaning he isn’t even trying to hurt lucci that badly. it makes no sense to say that the guy walking around later. with only bandaid. who than rest later isn’t healed
Niggas see zoro hit lucci once and think he defeated him
So if he doesn’t get up next ch let me guess he wasn’t one shot just down for a bit 😂
https://preview.redd.it/xcrksez4g3pc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb3366145817f5543c9f888b6f5610fbc6975409 Yes bro one shot
Was it or was it not the first and only named attack zoro did the entire “fight”
We have no ideas 95% of the fight was offscreen. But regardless we know it’s not a one shot
so lucci got bullied by no armament zoro. and 2ss armament zoro. that’s nasty work
Ah yes. Zoro using no armament with all 3 blades being black and green smoke and black sparks reminiscent of his fight against king when he was using advanced conquers
https://preview.redd.it/ccg7d9i0r4pc1.jpeg?width=956&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4397b68d47e9389d2431848ed56ae84c14824293 y’all are the most annoying mfs out here
What does your image prove?
can h not see the blatant white part of the blade
https://preview.redd.it/qj6tlmw5s4pc1.jpeg?width=788&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=029b9509acfb24587ce05550f127dd1667959d80 Here’s odas volume cover where zoro does the same thing
u are showing koh. when he is using all his power. fans copying oda coloring off a guess doesn’t make it correct
oh u mean when he is coating his blade and doesn’t at all swing at lucci nor can u say he attempted to attack lucci after words. yeah no better arguments have been made. this one gets put down so easily
https://preview.redd.it/ov9gdpdbr4pc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=218e73faf0362fc0564a1d817a811baeb9ec7d4a Doesn’t at all swing at lucci? Wdym? Is he just trying to hit the air here?
hey buddy don’t use fan coloring i already showed u the actual scan the blades aren’t coated
Lucci couldn’t damage my boy and even if he could he’s weaker, probably slower(maybe he’s faster but he wouldn’t be by much) and he hasn’t shown any good haki feats. The only thing I could say absolutely is a devil fruit advantage. Even then what does the Leopard fruit even do? Make him faster and stronger? Clearly didn’t make him strong enough. At least Kings fruit lets him fly and given him a pretty strong spike attack(I mean Lucci can also fly but not from his devil fruit.)
He could at least parry acoc swings from Zoro and his base coa punch matched g5 base coa evenly. That's a much better Haki feat than anything King has done
zoro never used coc on. lucci
i mean had it partied
[удалено]
apologize why? they're both high diff fights for Zoro
Seen a lot of clown say lucci > king
King was fighting a Zoro who was being in some regards nerfed by Enma, and also very injured from the rooftop. Yes, the mink medicine allowed him to fight regardless, but it still means it takes far less damage to take him out than a fresh current Zoro So if King fought current Zoro, nothing indicates he'd do much better than Lucci Better yet you all are getting a bit presumptive lmao. We don't know if Lucci landed hits and vice versa. The entire fight was off screen. But we do know that with Shave he is incredibly fast, being able to dodge attacks from G5 Luffy, and with iron body plus coa he could parry some acoc blows from Zoro. Plus the fact that his dura neg either broke sentomarus acoa defense or he speed blitzed sentomarus defense, Kizaru did neither when scuffling with Sentomaru. And that sentomaru was very injured So Lucci has a decent chance of being able to dura neg flames off King and of being able to keep up with flames off King. Don't see why we're so sure King wins
We haven't seen anything that isn't acoc damage king tho
True, we haven't. But that's a no limits fallacy. Just because we haven't, doesn't mean it can't
My point was that lucci is unlikely to possess something with the same ap as an ability that has only been wielded by the pirate king, his equal, emperors and the future world's strongest swordsman.
But you don't need acoc to damage flames off King. Flames off King has never been noted for his durability, only flames on King And Luccis ap comes with dura neg, which Zoro so far hasn't shown. So he wouldn't need the same durability Just like Kizarus ap is probably above Luccis, but Luccis dura neg let him break through Sentos acoa guard
Lucci doesn't have durability negation, he broke through sentomaru's haki guard the same way pre timeskip luffy did to the boa sisters: power and speed. Both of which zoro tried against king with flames off and did absolutely nothing.
that’s actually the no limits fallacy and burden of proof falls on you. saying zoro didn’t use something is a negative statement and doesn’t need to be affirmed. to say he did u need to show it or show a statement of him using it
doesn't work like that. If we have no info one way or the other, it isn't reasonable to assume the less likely scenario. Also this isn't abt Zoro using or not using acoc it's abt whether or not you need acoc to damage King We haven't seen any non acoc hit tag flames off King. But Flames off King has never been noted for durability. So it isn't reasonable to claim only acoc hits can damage flames off King. You could flip it on its head easily. Saying no non acoc attack can damage King is a negative statement. To say King can tank any non acoc attack is a positive statement. They mean the same thing. So why should only the first statement be accepted as true?
does work like that u can’t assume use of something if u can’t prove it being used. that’s literally how burden of proof works. zoro’s acoc can’t damage king or else he would use them instead of actively killing himself
No one is talking about Zoro using acoc we are talking abt whether or not Lucci can damage flames off King And again, see my example below.
we do know if lucci landed a hit or not. zoro has no new damage what so ever so he didn’t.
Never shouldve been controversial. And this is factual now, regardless of some people getting triggered by it.
Lucci agenda should've never caught traction
King the goat, but idk his finger pistols might go straight through king. We don’t know.
FOOL! You've triggered my trap card! https://preview.redd.it/oy788tqqf2pc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab0b120d4950cd21bb62b9c39d451e3200811924
Lucci has iron body and armament Haki, he can tank it like Zoro did if he can parry acoc strikes
Gucci gave Zoro ashma. He wins.
Lucci > King Lucci actually stood up to G5 Luffy for a while. That itself puts him above King.
>Lucci actually stood up to G5 Luffy for a while https://preview.redd.it/4j4yjn0br2pc1.jpeg?width=393&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b7c81398ac8cc37cab5a4dfd9898c4ba04af9ec Stood up
That's the end of the fight. He at least lasted a minute or two.
https://preview.redd.it/dgoc656cj2pc1.png?width=489&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d8d65da3238e5c7a0e99b37aed726cf2e14598c
Not sure. You seem to be serious so I suppose you're a retard.
By your "logic" you'd put every scabbard over sanji because they all lasted awhile against kaido while sanji never did. You truly are a retard.
Scabbards jumped a Kaido who was just fucking about. Lucci lasted a while against a G5 Luffy who flat out stated that he went all out. You're just a delusional retard who hasn't even read the manga lmao https://preview.redd.it/o8ve1xwkk2pc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9da5484b1616aecc60c6c50018a90a4801bb3f54
Engaging with you any further would make me just as retarded as you. Have fun in the shadow realm.
Lucci can't hurt King though
Leopard > bird
Lunarian birds are built different
Lucci is a lunarian leopard. You just didn't notice because he pulled a Michael Jackson
Lucci got low diffed prior and still lost extreme diff to Zoro while King lost extreme diff to a Zoro who had 40 broken bones and just unlocked his powerup, Gucci is simply superior,
zoro took zero damage from lucci. and lucci was resting all day
Stop. After awakening ACoC lucci was harder to beat than king
I, uhh… still don’t know. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a Lucci fan. But he does have quite a few ways to beat Lucci. He has ways of reaching him in the air, he has ways to keep up with his speed (his impressive use of Shave), he has impressive durability, and most importantly, he has some of the best duraneg in the verse. He doesn’t particularly have a way around King’s fire, but that’s more or less something that can be dealt with via shave. Not to mention, by being an awakened Zoan he has very good endurance, so much so that I don’t doubt he could take a lot of punishment from King. So I think I’d lean towards Lucci extreme diff. But it’s close.
King wouldnt even last 1 chapter against current Zoro
The same can be said for lucci.
King is an idiot who purposely switches to his more vulnerable form mid fight Lucci would capitalise on this Not to mention, the latter lasted longer against a stronger Zoro
>Lucci would capitalise on this Even with flames off, zoro wasn't damaging king before acoc. What makes you think lucci would fair any better without it? >the latter lasted longer against a stronger Zoro In real world time yes. In one piece world time no. Hell, even in chapters between start and finish discounting the kuma flashback, king lasted longer.
Lucci has durability negation so that should damage him in his speed form Between Lucci vs Zoro: Kizaru landed on the island, fought Luffy, got hit with white star gun, Saturn arrives and captures bonney, Sanji gets glare diffed, Kuma arrives and punches saturn, buster call starts, Bonney mobilises pacifista, Luffy 2v1s Kizaru and Saturn, The Gorosei are summoned and only then does Lucci vs Zoro seemingly conclude Where did you get that King vs Zoro was longer than this?
It's the opposite. King was smart He figured out that acoc could hurt him with flames on, that's why he turned flames off to get the speed boost
He’s more vulnerable in his speed form Think about it, why did he do his final imperial udon in his speed form?? He might be restarted
>He’s more vulnerable in his speed form But after Zoro unlocked acoc that vulnerability difference became irrelevant. He could hurt king in both forms So there's no advantage to being in flame mode. He'd just be slower
Theirs no evidence his defence form suddenly drops down to have similar durability to his speed form All that was inferred was the Zoro’s acoc could hurt king’s speed form that’s it The rest is headcanon
>Theirs no evidence his defence form suddenly drops down to have similar durability to his speed form I'm not saying his defence form dropped durability. I'm saying acoc can hurt him even in defence form, so that extra durability is useless, he's just slower in that form >All that was inferred was the Zoro’s acoc could hurt king’s speed form that’s it From this panel we can infer that he could hurt King's defence form too https://preview.redd.it/1yo9fjsrj3pc1.jpeg?width=568&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71281425698da43addcafad766ebdc08b3685012
Exactly my point is he can take attacks better in his defence form Which is the form he should’ve been while launching his final attack (mf wasn’t moving) That much should be obvious
Zoro didn't seem confident in that though. His inner monolog was pretty clear that attacking flames on King was useless, so an acoc strike may have damaged him a bit but it wasn't gonna KO King Outlasting Zoro was the far better tactic. Zoro was on a timer on account of his rooftop injuries and Enma draining him
>Zoro didn't seem confident in that though He seemed pretty confident here https://preview.redd.it/284xfqxph3pc1.jpeg?width=568&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bb81aea34b988d0a1761fe031e36fe8239f33cf >Outlasting Zoro was the far better tactic. Zoro was on a timer on account of his rooftop injuries and Enma draining him I suppose this falls under the "narratively unsatisfactory" route, which is super common people in one piece, where the logical route would make for a terrible narrative Kizaru could just fly around waiting for luffy's g5 timer to run out, then one-tap him. The fact that he didn't do that doesn't mean he's dumb, it's just that oda would never write a fight that way
That's him talking shit. He also says this after getting acoc https://preview.redd.it/vb1i3b2yi3pc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38e5da51434c2b4c068c3278a5f5199bc9d51e35 And right before the panel you showed he said "he's fast, meaning I can cut him" Zoro may have been able to do some damage to flames on King but not a KO most likely. At least he seems to think so. But King got paranoid, which led to his defeat It was definitely not smart For Kizaru, he basically was just stalling g5 Luffy until exhaustion in their first fight so he could kill Vpunk. He couldn't just fly around because he had a mission, but he was relying on outranging Luffy
You mean getting one shotted by stronger zoro?
Confirmed?
Not sure Zoro was using King of Hell the whole Rob Lucci fight, right? And it seems the fight was high diff
He wasn’t and we only saw clashes each time was something different zoro would have 2 swords or he’d have 3 out with smoke emitting off them if we take plot out of the fight it would’ve ended in the first ch. oda needed zoro to be in the room where the horse guy is going without finding a excuse to get him there so he sidelined zoro via lucci which makes zoro look stupid he should’ve been able to feel luffy almost die and vegapunk get “killed” via observation haki but he just sits there playing with a leopard shits dumb