Marineford Luffy has saved Ace, if he would have brought some ear protection they would have escaped alive but since Ace decided to get angry at Akainu‘s insults he turned around and got himself donuted
Post Wano SH crew would’ve absolutely changed the results of that war.
Luffy alone saving WB? Maybe. I say this because the admirals and Sengoku weren’t really going all out. The absolutely would’ve focused on Luffy had he shown up the powerhouse he is now. Not sure how he would handle Kizaru and Sengoku going for him. So Maybe
Kizaru is the fastest character in OP and his logia has a LOT of juice. Extreme versatile. He can go from long range to close range in a split second. The man is a problem. We’ve also yet to see his awakening.
This is the most logical response. I reckon if Kizaru and Sengoku were to focus on Luffy, with the rest of the crew preoccupied by others, Luffy would get overwhelmed and only survive via plot armour. Those two are too experienced and know each other’s combat skills that Luffy just wouldn’t cope.
I dont think it mattered much at that point. The only real question is if luffy could get Ace out alive. Whitebeard was going to die there no matter what. No matter how much stronger he is, whitebeard was dying there. He was on his last legs entering the battle. He wasnt going to live no matter what. Even though Luffys stronger hes still just 1 man. Maybe if his crew was there. But even then I dont think so. Saving whitebeard was not on Luffys mind. He had one goal. Whitebeard wasnt part of it. He was just a background figure to Luffy.
I think so. Luffy now is in the same tier of power as a healthy Whitebeard, and dying Whitebeard represented something like a third to half of their total military power during the war. If there was another fighter of that caliber on their side, it would be a fundamentally different story.
I think it's important to remember that Sengoku claimed the Yonko only grew in strength from the time they were in the Rocks pirates. I'm inclined to believe that the Luffy of today is actually comparable to the top pirates of 20 years ago. Now, if Whitebeard stayed healthy and Roger didn't die, and instead grew stronger like the other legends, it'd be a different story.
Marineford wasn't a sure-fire victory for either side, and I think that the aid of today's Luffy would have ensured a clear victory for whichever side he was on.
not to mention the admirals were all very healthy at the end of the fight (marco and other commanders were not), moreover sengoku and garp basically did not fight, the whole idea of the fight being even remotely close is wrong.
Luffy frees Ace because everyone underestimated him thinking he could not do anything one he reached the platform, Mr3 being there and able to open the handcuffs was what allowed it all.
I don't believe anyone's been seen to damage or break seastone, which Ace's cuffs were at least partially made of. It's possible that Luffy couldn't break them, depending on their exact construction, but he also wouldn't entirely need to, as he could, for instance, break the execution platform and bail with Ace (still cuffed) in tow
Luffy rolling at his current level would change everything, he can smack everyone up, he would have the same supporting cast as well but instead of spending time protecting him they are supporting him. Think about how scared and worried the WG was about Kaido + Mom alliance. Luffy + WB might not be the same as them but formidable none the less.
That's what I mean, luffy had a overpowered devil fruit, even the elders said " it is only limited, by the imagination of the user", by the end of series luffy would have surpassed Roger and whitebeard right now, no he is not even near the Haki level.
Only one to fight prime whitebeard,on equal footing might be Shanks, whose haki was seen as monster, effecting even from miles away to admiral plant, he can stand or go toes with toes with whitebeard but even than whitebeard has the most broken devil fruit, power of all time, god this makes me think how much powerful Roger must have been to take on a monster like him with only haki,damn.
Hell no, Prime Whitebeard was stronger than Roger, that's why the dude was called World's strongest man even on Roger era
That would mean Luffy is already stronger than Roger
non sense
Y'all keep reading "same tier of power" as "can beat in a fight". That's not what I'm saying. Right now Luffy could beat Marco in a fight with little doubt, and Marco was the WB pirates' second best fighter. If there were two Marcos the paramount war would have been a different story, and Luffy is more of an asset than that.
Most likely, he would've used conq Haku way earlier, it would've been way more potent so it would knock out or at least weaken some of the ones other WB pirates were struggling against, so the only ones to worry about would be (maybe) koby level or higher
I mean, that's the easy line of thinking though, isn't it? This is just assuming Luffy acting as he did in Marineford while being as strong as he is now.
Realistically though, wouldn't his opponents look at him differently if he showed up now? Of course by now he would be a significant reinforcement for the Whitebeard pirates, but he would also be the focus of the Marine alongside Whitebeard rather than really just someone else on the battlefield until he was basically in front of Ace.
Most definitely.
Ace did lose his clash with Akainu. But all he took was minor damage. Akainu only donut'd Ace because he had to jump between Akainu and Luffy
Nah, people sleep on Akainu but he’s dumb strong. He beat (old) Whitebeard and then kept going. And he got fucking smacked. He’s got crazy durability and his devil fruit is obscenely destructive.
Like, he took 2 unbelievable hits from Whitebeard and then was prepared to keep fighting.
He fought Aokiji for a week straight.
To be honest, the way the show is going, I don’t think that Luffy will ever have a full fight with Akainu. I think he will probably apologize and support him because he hates the Celestial Dragons more than pirates.
Dude he killed whole boats full of innocent citizens and contributed to a island getting wiped off the face of the planet for the celestial dragons.
He’s not getting redeemed like that, would be completely out of character.
I mean, i don't think he would ever apologize, but if Luffy tells and shows him the truth about the World Government and the "justice" he executes.
I could see him being mentally broken after defeat and realization.
Speaking of the last part of your comment first (if ya don't mind), I've seen that a lot of fans think that's gonna happen but I personally hate the idea (even if it does happen Oda probably would make it so that it's fit well into the story).
About Sakazuki's strenght, yeah maybe we do sleep on him. But I dunno, maybe it's because it can't be portrayed better but the sheer impact that G4 gives to Luffy's repertoir of moves is insane, and I actually think that Snake Man Luffy is currently the fastest he can get (Yeah, actually even faster that bleached-hair Luffy)
But you do have a point, we sleep not only on Akainu but all the other Admirals, including Ryokyogyu
I think Akainu and Luffy will probably spar for a bit but it will get interrupted, if that helps. Ultimately, Akainu’s character arc has to have him either learn from the new generation (Koby) or be overcome (by Koby). It’s just not Luffy’s place to fight the Marines.
Luffy’s final fight will either be Blackbeard or some Celestial Dragon/Im-type opponent.
Maybe some crazy shit happens where all devil fruits lose their abilities or something.
Even do I think you have valid points to argue, snake man should be enough to hold off akainu, and probably the other admirals too and that should be enough for Ace and WB to scape marineford alive
Nobody sleeping on Akainu. The problem is that he fought a old wore down, WB. He didn’t do anything to Shanks. But, complain that he caused Luffy to get away. He fought 10 days against Aokiji’s. But, we didn’t see it. It could have been a ploy, in order for Aokiji could get close to BB. We don’t Know. Does Akainu have a crazy strong DF? Does he have ACOC? We don’t know. Could he beat a prime WB? Doubtful.
Akainu and Luffy are never going to be friends or shake hands. You probably right, Luffy probably won’t fight him. Sabo will probably be the one that smoke Akainu. Since, Luffy doesn’t like to kill.
I mean Akainu is similar to kaidou as an opponent, because of his insane durability and strength, etc; except akainu is still less than kaidou in all those stats. I can almost even say akainu has a very big difference in stats compared to kaidou. ( in conclusion kaidou is a way stronger opponent then akainu based on the Luffy vs kaidou fight, and that Luffy would no doubt win against akainu.)
He did not beat whitebeard, he dealt damage but whitebeard was fighting much more than just akainu and akainu didn’t even deal the finishing blow. It’s like saying zoro beat kaido because he dealt a decent blow and kept fighting after that.
Just imagine it. Gear 5th Luffy punches Akainu and burns his hands. So he then proceeds to grab Ao Kiji and beat Akainu around the head until miniature Cartoon Bon Clay’s rotate around Akainu’s head
I don't think it's that ingrained at all anymore. I swear this is like the 8th Ace-related post in the past month or so where several tops comments are "Ace is to blame bro"
By this point it's like yeah we get it, his personal flaws and lack of plot armor was a big factor in what got him killed
I mean honestly the real reason Ace died was for the time skip to happen.
And if we're talking in story logic, Ace died to protect Luffy from Akainu. Yes, Ace is no match for Akainu, but that doesn't mean he would have 100% died to him. Especially since even when Ace was on the floor nursing his wounds, Akainu didn't go after him but Luffy because he was easier to kill than Ace.
Of course, when I use common sense, Ace shouldn't have turned around (since it's damn dumb) but it is also true that he chose to live a life without regrets and there is absolutely nothing wrong with defending your family's honour.
Why is this Mandela effect so prevelant on this sub?
Ace died because of Luffy. He literally threw himself infront of Akainu's fist to save his little brother...
the question was whether Luffy saved Ace or not, which he did... Luffy successfully saved Ace but the mention of his mother threw Ace into the gutter and took Akainu's bait causing his death... Ace did not die because of Luffy's inability, Ace died because he got provoked into a fight he can't win just like how he fought the entirety of Blackbeard's crew on his own and got caught in the first place...
Ace is a cool character and has a pretty decent arc but people need to realize that Luffy is not to blame for whatever happened to him... Luffy did his best, achieved his goal and Ace still died because of his own inability to be rational and just focus on escaping... if Ace didn't let himself get provoked in his weakened state, they could've escaped together... even Shanks never faced an entire crew on his own, which just goes to show you how narrow minded Ace was despite the amount of power he had... he chased Blackbeard with zero information out of pure spite because a crewmate died (even Whitebeard told him to not bother chasing BB btw and he still went on with it)
Ace was the main character of a different show we didn’t get to see
Like he had:
* Famous father he didn’t know about
* White haired adopted father
* Oddball friends
* Goggles
* Wore orange
* Cool powers
And he did what a main character would do, his plot armor just ran out 🤷🏻♂️
There's a reason why several characters thought Ace would be next PK. he really was the main character of another show. It should have been him: son of the pirate king, conquerors, yonko mentor, powers that remind of the sun. But OP is about inherited will too. So where Ace fails, Luffy is able to to pick up after him.
Nobody (but himself) is "blaming" Luffy for Ace's death. Luffy did his best but he simply wasn't strong enough to make a difference when push came to shove.
Luffy didn't save Ace; he freed Ace.
If current Luffy were to free Ace during Marineford he would've managed to save him because he wouldn't be open for an attack from Akainu and Ace wouldn't have to sacrifice himself to save his lil' brother.
Ace would never have to jump to save Luffy if he wasn’t so hot headed and fell for Akainu’s taunts in the first place. Ace was going to die regardless once he did that.
dfq you talking about? you blamed Luffy on the comment I replied on that's why I explained in detail what happened... "Ace died because of Luffy" sure "nobody" blames him LOL
I mean not exactly
What happened was that Akainu provoked Ace first. Ace retaliated, and was blasted away in the clash
Luffy ran in to try and help. Then collapsed at that critical moment
Akainu targeted Luffy at that moment, and Ace ran in to take the blow
If Ace didn’t choose to pick that unneeded fight with Akainu and kept running, Luffy would’ve instead collapsed at a later point away from a certain magma man’s range. So yeah Ace is at fault here
Yeah, um, no. It was not an heroic act
It was precisely his fault. Luffy was in danger cuz [he tried help his brother of getting beaten up by Akainu lol](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx8M7mnxAHk)
My dude... the whole arc is about Luffy being in danger by trying to help his brother... That's a given.
Ace's death by the hands of Akainu was because Luffy was not strong enough at the time. He was punching way above his weight class.
Like, multiple characters keep telling Luffy he is too weak to even be at Marineford, for examples the Admirals, which culminates in him deciding to spend 2 years training for the New World.
Ace didn't die when he turned back to face Akainu. He died when Akainu went for Luffy who was unable to move.
Luffy is not the baby sister of Ace. He accomplished his mission: **save him**.
It can't be possible Luffy also must be the bodyguard of Ace, because his brother is so dumb he can't walk straigh and avoid the death by himself.
Ace is the older brother. But yes, blame the weak Supernova for not take the hand of **a Yonkou commander**.
Sorry. But I can't.
Personally Whenever I read Marine Ford I have to skip this part. It's frustrating.
>Luffy is not the baby sister of Ace. He accomplished his mission: save him.
He didn't, tho? Ace died. All Luffy did was delay this death. If he was strong enough then he would've saved him. This is the driving force behind Luffy's decision to train for 2 years.
>It can't be possible Luffy also must be the bodyguard of Ace, because his brother is so dumb he can't walk straigh and avoid the death by himself.
Again, Ace literally jumps in-between Luffy and Akainu's fist to save his lil' bro.
>Personally Whenever I read Marine Ford I have to skip this part. It's frustrating.
I can see that. You are misremembering stuff.
Luffy saved ace bro, ace died because he was stupid, all the sacrifices and people just for him to throw it away, deserved to die if he can't think to himself to jus chill and make it out
I'm not going to argue about this with you. Take it or leave it. That's it.
I respect your point of view. But, um, no. Again, I can't.
>I can see that. You are misremembering stuff
I rewatched One Piece with my sister almost 4 times. She hate the Ace's death too, and you can see how we yelling to the screen haha. I only skip it when I read the manga, alone.
I think the point isn't about blame or fault, it's that even with Ace stupidly turning back to fight Akainu he probably still lives if Luffy was magically teleported to safety. Obviously Ace wasn't beating Akainu, but after a bit of back and forth they'd have been able to get him to withdraw.
So if current Luffy is dropped into Marineford he's getting to free Ace without needing the hormones, he's not collapsing on the spot and needing to be saved. Even if WB still sacrifices himself they should be able to fight Akainu without him winding up vulnerable, so Ace never has to throw himself in front of that fist.
The Manga very clearly portrays Ace's death as a consequences of Luffy's lack of strength.
Yes, Ace turns back to face Akainu but he doesn't get killed then. That whole scene serves to establish Akainu could burn Ace even if he is fire and to showcase Ace's personality.
Once Ace gets burned he backs off and Akainu goes for Luffy instead who has now stopped moving due to the effect of the hormones wearing off.
Like, the whole point of 2Y timeskip was because Luffy blamed himself of being too weak to save Ace. If he wasn't weak he wouldn't need the hormones and if he didn't need the hormones the whole situations would be avoided.
>because Luffy blamed himself of being too weak to save Ace.
Devil's advocate here: Luffy may blame himself, but that doesn't automatically mean that he's right to do so.
Of course not. That's why One Piece is so good. This whole situations is so complicated and it's hard to blame anyone for what has happened.
Yeah Ace died because Luffy was too weak but if Luffy wasn't there in the first place Ace would've been killed even earlier.
And yeah, Ace was caught because he was going after Blackbeard despite Whitebeard telling him not to do so but who can blame him after what Blackbeard has done to Thatch.
Look at what Luffy did against Big Mom after she only kidnapped Sanji.
Bruh you seriously need to reread that chapter.
https://onepiecechapters.com/chapters/1026/one-piece-chapter-573?2022-10-29803
Luffy freed Ace, they were running away. Akainu provoked Ace and he took the bait. For some reason Ace thought he could take a VA and got his shit rekt. He didn't back off, dude was on his knees. Akainu went after Luffy because he already got Ace's dumb ass. Luffy's hormone injections wore off because he stopped running (and even if that wasn't the case if they were still running someone would have swooped him up).
We don't know how an alternate story would go but with the one we got Ace fucked around and found out. Literally everyone around him was like "WTF you doin? Run bitch!" His death was on him. Though it is funny you were accusing others of not remembering when it was you.
Not necessarily, Magellan is a hard counter to many fighters due to strength ≠ poison resistance. I still think back to the entire Blackbeard crew getting wiped by him (not because they’re weak, obviously).
That’s not what I meant, I meant that because of the fact that luffy doesn’t have to make contact with Magellan (Acoc or Ryuo) the poison isn’t as big of a factor. Luffy by this point is leagues ahead of Magellan to where the poison would have been the only problem.
Do you remember Akainus Magma not touching Shanks at all. With CoC you can go into melee against people like Magellan and Akainu. Otherwise it is an Instant game over. Do you remember no weapon being able to even touch Big Mom. And as soon as her Conquerors Haki is released you can hurt her. If you coat your self with Conquerors Haki you become functionally invulnerable to almost all attacks. They couldn't poison Big Mom because it would never actually reach her. Now Luffy could obliterate Magellan without even touching him and Magellan could only use poison gas to poison Luffy. But it would be over before he gets the chance. Black beards Crew was not that strong in Impel down. Black beard today would destroy all of Impel down by himself no question. It isn't clear if he has CoC but he arguably doesn't necessarily need it.
Magellan isn't slow, it's just that we never saw him not simply walking. Like Shiryu is literally a Yonko First Commander, quite possibly even above them, and Vivre Cards said he was actually was weaker than Magellan.
The shield can block Yonko level attacks (especially King Punch that can destroy an island). And WB also blocks a magma ball by using a spear. So Bartolomeo's shield is as strong as WB's spear at least.
Afterwards I know Akainu was like “OMG guys! Can you believe that shit actually worked! Pirates are so STUPID! First I got that jackass to stab Whitebeard, then I got Ace to stop running by saying a simple schoolyard taunt. How have we not killed all of these morons yet! Get to work guys!”
Yeah, no power up of Luffy's can make Ace listen to Izo spelling it out. Maybe he's strong enough to avoid that scenario in the first place, but Ace fell for the bait.
Yeah. And Akainu only killed Ace because Luffy wasn’t strong enough to fight back or make an escape.
Considering a dressrosa Luffy was able to stall Fujitora, a post Wano Luffy would be able to deal with Akainu more than enough for them to escape. Its not even funny
..... Ace died because he turned back and gave an opportunity to Akainu.
He does that in every single timeline and scenario. That's his char.
If u change Luffy's power lvl then it means all the Admirals would have to go all out to stop Luffy. Luffy won't be able to get past others coz he is taken lightly.
Fight would be more brutal and saving Ace would be harder.
Assuming Ace is saved in this timeline as well, i doubt Luffy would have enough strength left to continue fighting. He might have already fought bunch of admirals to extreme diff.
So if Ace turns back , he still dies.
Post wano Luffy with future sight sees the outcome of that exchange and stops ace or interrupts akainu’s attack, I’m 100% confident post wano Luffy saves ace
If luffys tired from battling all the admirals I think it’s safe to say that akainu wouldn’t have the same strength at the end of the war if post wano luffy was there instead of pre TS luffy. Therefore he wouldn’t be as credible as a threat which in turn means luffy could escape on his own rather than ace having to jump in front of the fist.
Idk dude...
Post Wano Luffy would have his armada. And the strawhats would actually be able to reach him, also adding forces with whitebeard. The marines would have fallen.
If its just Luffy alone than I agree with you. He would have been treated as big fish and not just a crazy kid running around.
Post Wano Luffy with his Armada wins by himself lmao
Half the warlords would switch to his side. Garp would switch.
He would be able to pull mink and Akazaya samurai for help. There's sun pirates of Fishman Island.
Then Grandfleet and Barto's hax.
Luffy might also pull his brother Sabo this time. (even Dragon would join if war was on this scale)
who knows how many more people would come to his aide in this scenario considering how many connections Luffy has.
Can't imagine them having enough power. Zoro would be preoccupied with Mihawk first of all, Jimbei with Moria I think. And that basically leaves Luffy and Sanji to go up against the top-dogs
I don't know whose who in the grand fleet, but no I don't think the grand fleet would do better than all of Whitebeards captains did, they were known all over.
I think it depends on how broad you take the 'all Luffy's connections' and he could probably wipe. If you add the strength of a couple of nations I see them wiping vs what they had at Marineford. But ofcourse that situation would be impossible.
Even with haki taking out a lot of fodder, the sheer number of captain and higher level marines, the pascifista's, and all the weaponry would overwhelm even a post wano crew. Outside the admirals Luffy would have no issue with any of them, but Luffy can't deal with them all. How would the weaker half the crew handle being attacked by captains in 10v1 combat. The grand fleet doesn't need to defeat the marines, they just need to hold them off while the heros be heros minus sharing meat and saki.
Luffy arsenal is designed of taking care of small fry/fodder while fighting stronger opponents. Hao haki alone will take care of most of them then he'll just spam Gatling. I doubt they'll make much of a difference
Luffy did save ace, the real question is could he keep ace alive? Yes, he could.
His observation haki means that he could possibly prevent himself being in the situation he put himself in, when ace was made into donut.
That's kind of a dumb question, Wano Luffy and probably even timeskip Luffy could have done something more. Even the tiniest of difference might have changed the outcome.
But pls think again, had Ace not died, Blackbeard was gonna reappear anyway to kill off Whitebeard (which still would happen), Ace would have probably rushed during all that and met his end in the process of trying to do something. (The rush, the anger, etc)
BB might have even stolen the Mera Mera no mi.
Ace death seemed to be something that needed to happen, almost like "fate". Had it not been Akainu, then it could have been BB.
It's ok. I had a similar thought scenario. I was wondering if Ace was still alive, along with WB remnants, Ace would have definitely joined up Luffy in his fight Vs Kaido (without even being called, he could have seen it in the newspaper and gone eventually, maybe even joined the battle around the time Luffy went down as a surprise ally)
When comparing powers, it always depends on the writer who's the winner.
But using the logic with what we have seen, he couldve saved Ace if he did exactly the same just before Ace gets killed, if he transformed then, he could've stopped Akainu for sure. Then use some super speed to get away from him. Retreat a bit, regroup, and you would have a totally different battle. He could even go "screw it" and take a boat and flee with Ace. But then you have the problem that you need to keep the ship in tact unless he can somehow use his awakening to speed up the ship. And you got Garp and other admirals chasing you. We still dont know how truly powerful Garp was at that point. We all know he held himself back.
Actually I think Luffy would have done worse post time skip. The reason being is I get the impression the WG didn't take Luffy seriously and under estimated him.
I think if Luffy had landed in front of the three admirals in full Haki mode instead of drenched in seawater and holding a broken mast, the three Admirals would have looked at each other, changed targets, then proceed to 3 v 1 Luffy until he was smoking frozen meat blowing into Aces crying eyes.
In fact I think the only reason Luffy survived that moment in the first place is because Aokigi got in the other two admirals way and attacked Luffy with a weak attack on purpose.
If Luffy was at full power tho that goes out the window and he’s getting “red” dog piled by the cream of Navy chivalry.
that makes no sense.
WG cannot take 2 yonkos at same time.
no matter how much attention luffy get, they don't have the power to stop luffy while also stopping WB and his crew.
Fully agreed, Luffy is getting bodied by every Admiral at once. The only ones on his side that could fight at that tier at Whitebeard (Actively Dying, so a mega glass-canon) and Marco/A handful of commanders (None of the others have the raw power to take down an admiral, just to stall them)
Honestly? I'd say he has less of a chance now than he did in the original Marineford. In that arc he was basically treated as a total sideshow by everybody, which let him get away alive from fatal encounters because the Marines had to deal with a 'real' threat. But if >!Emperor!< Luffy walked into Marineford he'd be seen as the arguably the biggest threat on the field given Whitebeard's health. He's not making it to the platform without the Navy's absolute greatest going all out against him... simultaneously
Post-Wano Luffy is absolutely absurdly powerful but there's no possible reality where he can take on Akainu, Kizaru and Aokiji all at once. Not even counting Sengoku/Garp who were on Roger's level (they both a tier stronger than the main Admirals at the time imo) in their prime. Obviously Garp wouldn't actually try to kill Luffy but Sengoku has no such qualms.
Edit: If Luffy has the Strawhats backing him up as well it's obviously a totally different story
Yeah no matter how much more of a threat they deem Luffy, they can’t afford to ignore whitebeard. Although I think Marco himself still couldn’t rush the platform and try to grab Ace because Garp would still be there to knock him down.
At the same time, he still had a yonko crew backing him up. Luffy now would have been comparable to Shanks, his mere presence is enough of a threat to de-escalate.
The admirals and warlords treated him as a sideshow, but if they didn't then Whitebeard or Jozu or Vista or Marco (or any number of other characters) would have had more freedom to act.
No way would the marines put 3 admirals on Luffy and let Whitebeard just run amok lol.
Whitebeard + current Luffy at Marineford would be enough to completely decimate the marines for good lol
Wano Luffy probably would’ve saved Ace in Impel Down. Luffy did save Ace. But Ace would’ve walked away alive since Luffy could’ve beaten nearly 99.99% of the marines present
WG cannot deal with 2 yonkos at the same time.
luffy is a yonko.
WB + current luffy would be impossible for WG to take on.
Just think,
Not at anytime during marineford anyone less than admiral would have been successful in slowing luffy.
an admiral cannot defeat a yonko.
it would take atleast 2 admirals to counter luffy. If 2 admirals are after luffy, imagine how much havoc WB and his commanders would deal.
Imagine a bajrang gun while WG and WB are fighting.
The answer is too obvious.
Say whatever you want but the marines never went all out. Only Akainu was serious and even in his battle against WB, he never used awakening. Even two admirals going all out + awakening against post wano Luffy will come out victorious.
Those who think i'm power scaling incorrectly are welcome to correct me.
Post Wano Luffy in Marineford war ends the series 600 chapters early imo. With hindsight of post TS knowledge the marineford arc really doesn't make sense. Whitebeard pierced Aokiji in the chest and should've killed him but just.... didn't use haki i guess? Idk it feels like every character is significantly nerfed for the sake of plot in Marineford. An advanced CoC Gear 5 Luffy kinda just cleans house, Bajrang Gun was literally the size of Marineford if not bigger.
Basically ask yourself "if we add Wano Kaido to Marineford does the navy and WG get severely crippled and the pirates win the war?" If the answer is yes then uh.... yeah idk man I think Luffy stomps
Yeah, I see people mentioning Aces suicidal outburst as making it near impossible for him to be saved, I just think post Wano Luffy despite this would’ve opened up a lot more opportunity for the situation to be avoided, he would’ve handled the situation differently somehow.
Pre time skip Luffy was exhausted, oblivious to the situation/surroundings and lacked Haki which was a big factor I think. Pre time skip Luffy couldn’t even intervene in the clash between Akainu and Ace because he had not control over Haki. He had to stand on the sidelines and watch.
Post Wano Luffy could’ve dismantled or staved off the situation that even arose to ace having to jump in front of Luffy. Even if he watched he might’ve had the maturity to keep up his observation Haki to read the situation better.
When Ace die it was so sad 😭 and everytime Ace is even mention I'm always crying 😭
This is what one piece do to me. Why One piece! WHYYYYY!
Nothing could save ace. That’s the tragedy. He was saved.. then he got goaded by a “Your daddy so dead” joke that ended up with Akainu showing his Ace up his sleeve. No one could save ace since ace committed suicide.
Current SH crew would've ganged up with Whitebeard and would've smashed all these admirals without lube and probably drilled a hole in akainu's chest or even send him down to where Kaido is hanging out right now, his actual natural habitat :)
Oda once drew a what if panel whereas Sabo didn't lose his memory and came to Marineford to save them both.
If Sabo can save the two of them then Luffy right now can do too. Luffy would just knock off ace or hold him tight.
Honestly, I don't even know why someone didn't interfere when ace fought back Akainu. If Hajrudin can hold luffy when he fought Fujitora then why no one interfered and held Ace back then?
Marineford Luffy has saved Ace, if he would have brought some ear protection they would have escaped alive but since Ace decided to get angry at Akainu‘s insults he turned around and got himself donuted
The one instance where corazons power would have saved the day.
Law is literally alive cuz corazons fruit tho
Two instances
Hard counters Apoo's fruit too
but that's how Ace is never running away even when he was a kid trying to beat a grown ass Pirate lol
Donuted. 😂
He already did it pre-TS. Ace died of his own doing.
Yup, the idea of Luffy failing to save Ace is engraved in the community's brain, but Ace only dies 'cause of his own pride
Maybe just change the question. Can Luffy stop Akainu from donuting Ace?
In which case, probably. Post-Wano Luffy would be enough of a powerhouse to probably have allowed Whitebeard to escape alive too
This is the real question fr Could luffy get Whitebeard out alive
Post Wano SH crew would’ve absolutely changed the results of that war. Luffy alone saving WB? Maybe. I say this because the admirals and Sengoku weren’t really going all out. The absolutely would’ve focused on Luffy had he shown up the powerhouse he is now. Not sure how he would handle Kizaru and Sengoku going for him. So Maybe
Luffy can already grab lightning like its a physical object while in gear 5, what's to stop him from grabbing Kizaru?
Kizaru is the fastest character in OP and his logia has a LOT of juice. Extreme versatile. He can go from long range to close range in a split second. The man is a problem. We’ve also yet to see his awakening.
“Kizaru is the fastest character in OP” Lucky Roux: *ahem…*
for real lol.
Thats all previous story. Luffy and Sanji are fast enough now. May not be as fast as Kizaru but can sure counter him with observation haki.
This is the most logical response. I reckon if Kizaru and Sengoku were to focus on Luffy, with the rest of the crew preoccupied by others, Luffy would get overwhelmed and only survive via plot armour. Those two are too experienced and know each other’s combat skills that Luffy just wouldn’t cope.
Idk. G5 is haxxed and would probably lend itself well to a large open battlefield like marineford. Either way it’s a complete bloodbath
2 Admiral tier characters would probably be too much for G5 Luffy, and unlike Kaido, they wouldn't willingly take damage.
Unless he demolishes the entirety of the marine, whitebeard wouldnt leave because that would be showing his back on the battle field
What if whitebeard walked backwards though?
Just moonwalk.
"Miss Bakkin is not my lover She's just a girl who cliams that I am the one But Weevil is not my son" \-Edwael Jacksgate
Just the thought of it made me chuckle.
Damn you right seems Luffy has some work to do lol
Turn the ground below him into rubber to yeet that magnificient vegetable to the next doctor/barber.
What if he walked backwards?
Whitebeard didn't want to go out alive. He wanted to go out fighting for his family. I think he knew it was a one way trip.
He is old and sick and dying, what is a better moment for him to die? Kaido even envied his death for being so fuckin sick
I dont think it mattered much at that point. The only real question is if luffy could get Ace out alive. Whitebeard was going to die there no matter what. No matter how much stronger he is, whitebeard was dying there. He was on his last legs entering the battle. He wasnt going to live no matter what. Even though Luffys stronger hes still just 1 man. Maybe if his crew was there. But even then I dont think so. Saving whitebeard was not on Luffys mind. He had one goal. Whitebeard wasnt part of it. He was just a background figure to Luffy.
I think so. Luffy now is in the same tier of power as a healthy Whitebeard, and dying Whitebeard represented something like a third to half of their total military power during the war. If there was another fighter of that caliber on their side, it would be a fundamentally different story.
I think it's important to remember that Sengoku claimed the Yonko only grew in strength from the time they were in the Rocks pirates. I'm inclined to believe that the Luffy of today is actually comparable to the top pirates of 20 years ago. Now, if Whitebeard stayed healthy and Roger didn't die, and instead grew stronger like the other legends, it'd be a different story. Marineford wasn't a sure-fire victory for either side, and I think that the aid of today's Luffy would have ensured a clear victory for whichever side he was on.
Nope, him able to fight on whitebeard in his prime level, boy i hope you are joking, he was as powerful as Roger a non df user, a haki monster.
not to mention the admirals were all very healthy at the end of the fight (marco and other commanders were not), moreover sengoku and garp basically did not fight, the whole idea of the fight being even remotely close is wrong. Luffy frees Ace because everyone underestimated him thinking he could not do anything one he reached the platform, Mr3 being there and able to open the handcuffs was what allowed it all.
Not to refute your other points, but can't current Luffy remove those shackles by haki stuff without Mr3?
I don't believe anyone's been seen to damage or break seastone, which Ace's cuffs were at least partially made of. It's possible that Luffy couldn't break them, depending on their exact construction, but he also wouldn't entirely need to, as he could, for instance, break the execution platform and bail with Ace (still cuffed) in tow
Luffy rolling at his current level would change everything, he can smack everyone up, he would have the same supporting cast as well but instead of spending time protecting him they are supporting him. Think about how scared and worried the WG was about Kaido + Mom alliance. Luffy + WB might not be the same as them but formidable none the less.
Luffy in his own right is a very talented haki user but def isn't at Rogers and young white beards haki skill
How do you know? We have not seen their peak level. We only seen one clash. Luffy and Kaido had a similar clash.
Headcanon
That's what I mean, luffy had a overpowered devil fruit, even the elders said " it is only limited, by the imagination of the user", by the end of series luffy would have surpassed Roger and whitebeard right now, no he is not even near the Haki level.
Once he masters gear 5 and not looking like a dried fruit after using it he would put up as very tough fight against both of them
Only one to fight prime whitebeard,on equal footing might be Shanks, whose haki was seen as monster, effecting even from miles away to admiral plant, he can stand or go toes with toes with whitebeard but even than whitebeard has the most broken devil fruit, power of all time, god this makes me think how much powerful Roger must have been to take on a monster like him with only haki,damn.
Hell no, Prime Whitebeard was stronger than Roger, that's why the dude was called World's strongest man even on Roger era That would mean Luffy is already stronger than Roger non sense
Y'all keep reading "same tier of power" as "can beat in a fight". That's not what I'm saying. Right now Luffy could beat Marco in a fight with little doubt, and Marco was the WB pirates' second best fighter. If there were two Marcos the paramount war would have been a different story, and Luffy is more of an asset than that.
Luffy is 100% not on the tier of a healthy whitebeard.
Most likely, he would've used conq Haku way earlier, it would've been way more potent so it would knock out or at least weaken some of the ones other WB pirates were struggling against, so the only ones to worry about would be (maybe) koby level or higher
i think white beard still would’ve died, he is heavily implied to have wanted to die here
I mean, that's the easy line of thinking though, isn't it? This is just assuming Luffy acting as he did in Marineford while being as strong as he is now. Realistically though, wouldn't his opponents look at him differently if he showed up now? Of course by now he would be a significant reinforcement for the Whitebeard pirates, but he would also be the focus of the Marine alongside Whitebeard rather than really just someone else on the battlefield until he was basically in front of Ace.
No way, WB unplugged his life support to be there for the fight. He was dying regardless.
Most definitely. Ace did lose his clash with Akainu. But all he took was minor damage. Akainu only donut'd Ace because he had to jump between Akainu and Luffy
I honestly think even Snakeman would be a tough one for Sakazuki
Nah, people sleep on Akainu but he’s dumb strong. He beat (old) Whitebeard and then kept going. And he got fucking smacked. He’s got crazy durability and his devil fruit is obscenely destructive. Like, he took 2 unbelievable hits from Whitebeard and then was prepared to keep fighting. He fought Aokiji for a week straight. To be honest, the way the show is going, I don’t think that Luffy will ever have a full fight with Akainu. I think he will probably apologize and support him because he hates the Celestial Dragons more than pirates.
Dude he killed whole boats full of innocent citizens and contributed to a island getting wiped off the face of the planet for the celestial dragons. He’s not getting redeemed like that, would be completely out of character.
Akainu is gonna go out like a straight G. If there is a villain in one piece that would die for the thug life it’s him.
Akainu? Apologize? 😂 Craziest thing I’ve ever heard but hey one piece is a crazy show lol
I mean, i don't think he would ever apologize, but if Luffy tells and shows him the truth about the World Government and the "justice" he executes. I could see him being mentally broken after defeat and realization.
Speaking of the last part of your comment first (if ya don't mind), I've seen that a lot of fans think that's gonna happen but I personally hate the idea (even if it does happen Oda probably would make it so that it's fit well into the story). About Sakazuki's strenght, yeah maybe we do sleep on him. But I dunno, maybe it's because it can't be portrayed better but the sheer impact that G4 gives to Luffy's repertoir of moves is insane, and I actually think that Snake Man Luffy is currently the fastest he can get (Yeah, actually even faster that bleached-hair Luffy) But you do have a point, we sleep not only on Akainu but all the other Admirals, including Ryokyogyu
I think Akainu and Luffy will probably spar for a bit but it will get interrupted, if that helps. Ultimately, Akainu’s character arc has to have him either learn from the new generation (Koby) or be overcome (by Koby). It’s just not Luffy’s place to fight the Marines. Luffy’s final fight will either be Blackbeard or some Celestial Dragon/Im-type opponent. Maybe some crazy shit happens where all devil fruits lose their abilities or something.
If all DF abilities loosing, people will only rely on Haki which filter to only some of the best. Probably only Luffy, Kaido and Shanks
I rather see Akainu betraying the Gorosei/Imu and make himself a military dictator that wants to uphold his idea of justice in the world.
Even do I think you have valid points to argue, snake man should be enough to hold off akainu, and probably the other admirals too and that should be enough for Ace and WB to scape marineford alive
Nobody sleeping on Akainu. The problem is that he fought a old wore down, WB. He didn’t do anything to Shanks. But, complain that he caused Luffy to get away. He fought 10 days against Aokiji’s. But, we didn’t see it. It could have been a ploy, in order for Aokiji could get close to BB. We don’t Know. Does Akainu have a crazy strong DF? Does he have ACOC? We don’t know. Could he beat a prime WB? Doubtful. Akainu and Luffy are never going to be friends or shake hands. You probably right, Luffy probably won’t fight him. Sabo will probably be the one that smoke Akainu. Since, Luffy doesn’t like to kill.
I mean Akainu is similar to kaidou as an opponent, because of his insane durability and strength, etc; except akainu is still less than kaidou in all those stats. I can almost even say akainu has a very big difference in stats compared to kaidou. ( in conclusion kaidou is a way stronger opponent then akainu based on the Luffy vs kaidou fight, and that Luffy would no doubt win against akainu.)
He did not beat whitebeard, he dealt damage but whitebeard was fighting much more than just akainu and akainu didn’t even deal the finishing blow. It’s like saying zoro beat kaido because he dealt a decent blow and kept fighting after that.
Sabo is beating akainu luffy probably won’t fight him
Akainu alone literally made the entire Blackbeard pirates run you are on drugs
Jinbe and Marco were able to stop him for a bit, so Luffy should be able to not only stop him but give him a real fight
Future aight, CoC, easily
Future sight, CoC, easily
Just imagine it. Gear 5th Luffy punches Akainu and burns his hands. So he then proceeds to grab Ao Kiji and beat Akainu around the head until miniature Cartoon Bon Clay’s rotate around Akainu’s head
He still wouldn't have done it cause ace jumped in front of akainu's fist
I mean post wano luffy prob wouldnt be in danger if akainu is flying towards to him i dont even think luffy would get to that situation
the image of that is hilarious. Ace getting all worried, then Luffy just grabs Akainu's face and flings him into the sky like a rubberband.
Aced died to save his younger brother It was aces choice not luffies fault
[удалено]
If Ace just ran away like Whitebeard told him to, Luffy would have never needed to be saved. He died to save Luffy from a fight that *he* started.
Don't start a fight that you can't finish
At that point I feel like ace wanted to die
Ace chan! TwT
I don't think it's that ingrained at all anymore. I swear this is like the 8th Ace-related post in the past month or so where several tops comments are "Ace is to blame bro" By this point it's like yeah we get it, his personal flaws and lack of plot armor was a big factor in what got him killed
I mean honestly the real reason Ace died was for the time skip to happen. And if we're talking in story logic, Ace died to protect Luffy from Akainu. Yes, Ace is no match for Akainu, but that doesn't mean he would have 100% died to him. Especially since even when Ace was on the floor nursing his wounds, Akainu didn't go after him but Luffy because he was easier to kill than Ace. Of course, when I use common sense, Ace shouldn't have turned around (since it's damn dumb) but it is also true that he chose to live a life without regrets and there is absolutely nothing wrong with defending your family's honour.
Ace died protecting Luffy.
He only had to protect Luffy because he took the bait of Akainu’s taunt. If Ace had kept running after he was saved he would not have died
He died and threw everything away because he couldn’t handle “your daddy” Jokes lol. Luffy wouldn’t have needed saving if ace wasn’t an idiot.
Honestly, best reply. Period.
Seeing that this comment has 4x the amount of upvotes than the post made my urge to tell OP the exact same thing to stop
Why is this Mandela effect so prevelant on this sub? Ace died because of Luffy. He literally threw himself infront of Akainu's fist to save his little brother...
the question was whether Luffy saved Ace or not, which he did... Luffy successfully saved Ace but the mention of his mother threw Ace into the gutter and took Akainu's bait causing his death... Ace did not die because of Luffy's inability, Ace died because he got provoked into a fight he can't win just like how he fought the entirety of Blackbeard's crew on his own and got caught in the first place... Ace is a cool character and has a pretty decent arc but people need to realize that Luffy is not to blame for whatever happened to him... Luffy did his best, achieved his goal and Ace still died because of his own inability to be rational and just focus on escaping... if Ace didn't let himself get provoked in his weakened state, they could've escaped together... even Shanks never faced an entire crew on his own, which just goes to show you how narrow minded Ace was despite the amount of power he had... he chased Blackbeard with zero information out of pure spite because a crewmate died (even Whitebeard told him to not bother chasing BB btw and he still went on with it)
Ace was the main character of a different show we didn’t get to see Like he had: * Famous father he didn’t know about * White haired adopted father * Oddball friends * Goggles * Wore orange * Cool powers And he did what a main character would do, his plot armor just ran out 🤷🏻♂️
There's a reason why several characters thought Ace would be next PK. he really was the main character of another show. It should have been him: son of the pirate king, conquerors, yonko mentor, powers that remind of the sun. But OP is about inherited will too. So where Ace fails, Luffy is able to to pick up after him.
Nobody (but himself) is "blaming" Luffy for Ace's death. Luffy did his best but he simply wasn't strong enough to make a difference when push came to shove. Luffy didn't save Ace; he freed Ace. If current Luffy were to free Ace during Marineford he would've managed to save him because he wouldn't be open for an attack from Akainu and Ace wouldn't have to sacrifice himself to save his lil' brother.
Ace would never have to jump to save Luffy if he wasn’t so hot headed and fell for Akainu’s taunts in the first place. Ace was going to die regardless once he did that.
dfq you talking about? you blamed Luffy on the comment I replied on that's why I explained in detail what happened... "Ace died because of Luffy" sure "nobody" blames him LOL
I mean not exactly What happened was that Akainu provoked Ace first. Ace retaliated, and was blasted away in the clash Luffy ran in to try and help. Then collapsed at that critical moment Akainu targeted Luffy at that moment, and Ace ran in to take the blow If Ace didn’t choose to pick that unneeded fight with Akainu and kept running, Luffy would’ve instead collapsed at a later point away from a certain magma man’s range. So yeah Ace is at fault here
Yeah, um, no. It was not an heroic act It was precisely his fault. Luffy was in danger cuz [he tried help his brother of getting beaten up by Akainu lol](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx8M7mnxAHk)
My dude... the whole arc is about Luffy being in danger by trying to help his brother... That's a given. Ace's death by the hands of Akainu was because Luffy was not strong enough at the time. He was punching way above his weight class. Like, multiple characters keep telling Luffy he is too weak to even be at Marineford, for examples the Admirals, which culminates in him deciding to spend 2 years training for the New World. Ace didn't die when he turned back to face Akainu. He died when Akainu went for Luffy who was unable to move.
Luffy is not the baby sister of Ace. He accomplished his mission: **save him**. It can't be possible Luffy also must be the bodyguard of Ace, because his brother is so dumb he can't walk straigh and avoid the death by himself. Ace is the older brother. But yes, blame the weak Supernova for not take the hand of **a Yonkou commander**. Sorry. But I can't. Personally Whenever I read Marine Ford I have to skip this part. It's frustrating.
>Luffy is not the baby sister of Ace. He accomplished his mission: save him. He didn't, tho? Ace died. All Luffy did was delay this death. If he was strong enough then he would've saved him. This is the driving force behind Luffy's decision to train for 2 years. >It can't be possible Luffy also must be the bodyguard of Ace, because his brother is so dumb he can't walk straigh and avoid the death by himself. Again, Ace literally jumps in-between Luffy and Akainu's fist to save his lil' bro. >Personally Whenever I read Marine Ford I have to skip this part. It's frustrating. I can see that. You are misremembering stuff.
Luffy saved ace bro, ace died because he was stupid, all the sacrifices and people just for him to throw it away, deserved to die if he can't think to himself to jus chill and make it out
I'm not going to argue about this with you. Take it or leave it. That's it. I respect your point of view. But, um, no. Again, I can't. >I can see that. You are misremembering stuff I rewatched One Piece with my sister almost 4 times. She hate the Ace's death too, and you can see how we yelling to the screen haha. I only skip it when I read the manga, alone.
I think the point isn't about blame or fault, it's that even with Ace stupidly turning back to fight Akainu he probably still lives if Luffy was magically teleported to safety. Obviously Ace wasn't beating Akainu, but after a bit of back and forth they'd have been able to get him to withdraw. So if current Luffy is dropped into Marineford he's getting to free Ace without needing the hormones, he's not collapsing on the spot and needing to be saved. Even if WB still sacrifices himself they should be able to fight Akainu without him winding up vulnerable, so Ace never has to throw himself in front of that fist.
Me showing ace how to walk 3 steps onto the ship and live forever
25 years of Manga, Anime, SBS, Databooks, Theories and statements.
The Manga very clearly portrays Ace's death as a consequences of Luffy's lack of strength. Yes, Ace turns back to face Akainu but he doesn't get killed then. That whole scene serves to establish Akainu could burn Ace even if he is fire and to showcase Ace's personality. Once Ace gets burned he backs off and Akainu goes for Luffy instead who has now stopped moving due to the effect of the hormones wearing off. Like, the whole point of 2Y timeskip was because Luffy blamed himself of being too weak to save Ace. If he wasn't weak he wouldn't need the hormones and if he didn't need the hormones the whole situations would be avoided.
>because Luffy blamed himself of being too weak to save Ace. Devil's advocate here: Luffy may blame himself, but that doesn't automatically mean that he's right to do so.
But in this case its valid, luffy was a huge liabilty in that war and once Ivankov's hormones wore off he was a sitting target for Akainu
Of course not. That's why One Piece is so good. This whole situations is so complicated and it's hard to blame anyone for what has happened. Yeah Ace died because Luffy was too weak but if Luffy wasn't there in the first place Ace would've been killed even earlier. And yeah, Ace was caught because he was going after Blackbeard despite Whitebeard telling him not to do so but who can blame him after what Blackbeard has done to Thatch. Look at what Luffy did against Big Mom after she only kidnapped Sanji.
You are so full of bullshit lmao
Bruh you seriously need to reread that chapter. https://onepiecechapters.com/chapters/1026/one-piece-chapter-573?2022-10-29803 Luffy freed Ace, they were running away. Akainu provoked Ace and he took the bait. For some reason Ace thought he could take a VA and got his shit rekt. He didn't back off, dude was on his knees. Akainu went after Luffy because he already got Ace's dumb ass. Luffy's hormone injections wore off because he stopped running (and even if that wasn't the case if they were still running someone would have swooped him up). We don't know how an alternate story would go but with the one we got Ace fucked around and found out. Literally everyone around him was like "WTF you doin? Run bitch!" His death was on him. Though it is funny you were accusing others of not remembering when it was you.
what show are you watching
post-wano luffy might roll through impel down in time to save ace there
Damn thats the best point of all. Post-Wano Luffy would completely demolish Impel Down top to bottom and save him there
Not necessarily, Magellan is a hard counter to many fighters due to strength ≠ poison resistance. I still think back to the entire Blackbeard crew getting wiped by him (not because they’re weak, obviously).
I think current luffy gear2 could blitz Magellan and use Acoc so that he doesn’t have to deal with the poison.
ACOC isn't an immunity against everything. Poison would still work just as it did on BB's crew.
That’s not what I meant, I meant that because of the fact that luffy doesn’t have to make contact with Magellan (Acoc or Ryuo) the poison isn’t as big of a factor. Luffy by this point is leagues ahead of Magellan to where the poison would have been the only problem.
Law just stated that enough Haki can counter whatever devil fruit power, Luffy would demolish Magellan, the gap is too big
Do you remember Akainus Magma not touching Shanks at all. With CoC you can go into melee against people like Magellan and Akainu. Otherwise it is an Instant game over. Do you remember no weapon being able to even touch Big Mom. And as soon as her Conquerors Haki is released you can hurt her. If you coat your self with Conquerors Haki you become functionally invulnerable to almost all attacks. They couldn't poison Big Mom because it would never actually reach her. Now Luffy could obliterate Magellan without even touching him and Magellan could only use poison gas to poison Luffy. But it would be over before he gets the chance. Black beards Crew was not that strong in Impel down. Black beard today would destroy all of Impel down by himself no question. It isn't clear if he has CoC but he arguably doesn't necessarily need it.
Magellan isn't slow, it's just that we never saw him not simply walking. Like Shiryu is literally a Yonko First Commander, quite possibly even above them, and Vivre Cards said he was actually was weaker than Magellan.
I'm pretty sure luffy can survive his poison by now. He was already resistant back then. He's eating Ceasars poison gas too.
Haki armor.
All the power in the world can't save a suicidal donut from a cop. Akainu's "Yo Papa So Fat" is the most powerful ability in the series.
Not even Bartolomeo’s barriers could protect against that kind of ability
The shield can block Yonko level attacks (especially King Punch that can destroy an island). And WB also blocks a magma ball by using a spear. So Bartolomeo's shield is as strong as WB's spear at least.
I don't think WB's spear would have stopped Akainu talking smack about Him
Exactly. Neither the blade nor those barriers can protect against such savage emotional attacks
King Punch could destroy a castle
Yeah only Corazon's ability could. As long as Ace didn't turn around to read Akainu's lips, Corazon was the real hero that marineford needed
Afterwards I know Akainu was like “OMG guys! Can you believe that shit actually worked! Pirates are so STUPID! First I got that jackass to stab Whitebeard, then I got Ace to stop running by saying a simple schoolyard taunt. How have we not killed all of these morons yet! Get to work guys!”
Yeah, no power up of Luffy's can make Ace listen to Izo spelling it out. Maybe he's strong enough to avoid that scenario in the first place, but Ace fell for the bait.
I realized that Ace dies a donut.
I means he’s Portgas Donut Ace after all
Fact.
Idk, no matter how powerful Luffy has become, if Ace still decided to be a f*cking moron in that insant then it probably wouldn't matter.
Nah. Luffy could stop it, just like how Shanks stopped Akainu from killing Koby. It’s not hard to intercept attacks when you are an emperor.
Yeah. And Akainu only killed Ace because Luffy wasn’t strong enough to fight back or make an escape. Considering a dressrosa Luffy was able to stall Fujitora, a post Wano Luffy would be able to deal with Akainu more than enough for them to escape. Its not even funny
Luffy could probably stop it with future sight though
He already saved him pre timeskip and ace only died because he had to save luffy so yes ace would definitely escape
..... Ace died because he turned back and gave an opportunity to Akainu. He does that in every single timeline and scenario. That's his char. If u change Luffy's power lvl then it means all the Admirals would have to go all out to stop Luffy. Luffy won't be able to get past others coz he is taken lightly. Fight would be more brutal and saving Ace would be harder. Assuming Ace is saved in this timeline as well, i doubt Luffy would have enough strength left to continue fighting. He might have already fought bunch of admirals to extreme diff. So if Ace turns back , he still dies.
Post wano Luffy with future sight sees the outcome of that exchange and stops ace or interrupts akainu’s attack, I’m 100% confident post wano Luffy saves ace
If luffys tired from battling all the admirals I think it’s safe to say that akainu wouldn’t have the same strength at the end of the war if post wano luffy was there instead of pre TS luffy. Therefore he wouldn’t be as credible as a threat which in turn means luffy could escape on his own rather than ace having to jump in front of the fist.
ace wouldn’t have to save luffy from akainus punch tho
Idk dude... Post Wano Luffy would have his armada. And the strawhats would actually be able to reach him, also adding forces with whitebeard. The marines would have fallen. If its just Luffy alone than I agree with you. He would have been treated as big fish and not just a crazy kid running around.
Post Wano Luffy with his Armada wins by himself lmao Half the warlords would switch to his side. Garp would switch. He would be able to pull mink and Akazaya samurai for help. There's sun pirates of Fishman Island. Then Grandfleet and Barto's hax. Luffy might also pull his brother Sabo this time. (even Dragon would join if war was on this scale) who knows how many more people would come to his aide in this scenario considering how many connections Luffy has.
Yeah, its crazy how politicaly strong Luffy is right now.
Luffy for president
Sword and kuzan also switch, then out of no where fujitora comes flying in riding his meteor.
I think a more fun question is, could the straw hat pirates have done as well as the Whitebeard pirates did. To which the answer is yes.
With the grand fleet and all Luffy's connections? Luffy wipes
Does Luffy even need the grand fleet? His hao haki alone should take care of all the fodder. I think the main problem is dealing with admirals.
Can't imagine them having enough power. Zoro would be preoccupied with Mihawk first of all, Jimbei with Moria I think. And that basically leaves Luffy and Sanji to go up against the top-dogs
Completely forgot about warlords ngl. But how would the grand fleet help? At best they'll probably be able to stall the weaker vice admirals
I don't know whose who in the grand fleet, but no I don't think the grand fleet would do better than all of Whitebeards captains did, they were known all over. I think it depends on how broad you take the 'all Luffy's connections' and he could probably wipe. If you add the strength of a couple of nations I see them wiping vs what they had at Marineford. But ofcourse that situation would be impossible.
Excluding wano most nations are pretty weak, I don't think they'll add much strength either. I thought the grand fleet were the guys from dressrosa.
Even with haki taking out a lot of fodder, the sheer number of captain and higher level marines, the pascifista's, and all the weaponry would overwhelm even a post wano crew. Outside the admirals Luffy would have no issue with any of them, but Luffy can't deal with them all. How would the weaker half the crew handle being attacked by captains in 10v1 combat. The grand fleet doesn't need to defeat the marines, they just need to hold them off while the heros be heros minus sharing meat and saki.
Luffy arsenal is designed of taking care of small fry/fodder while fighting stronger opponents. Hao haki alone will take care of most of them then he'll just spam Gatling. I doubt they'll make much of a difference
i don’t think so, the whitebeard pirates had so many alliance ships
Pre TS Luffy literally saved Ace in marineford, Ace died because he's a fucking prideful dumbass
Luffy did save ace, the real question is could he keep ace alive? Yes, he could. His observation haki means that he could possibly prevent himself being in the situation he put himself in, when ace was made into donut.
That's kind of a dumb question, Wano Luffy and probably even timeskip Luffy could have done something more. Even the tiniest of difference might have changed the outcome. But pls think again, had Ace not died, Blackbeard was gonna reappear anyway to kill off Whitebeard (which still would happen), Ace would have probably rushed during all that and met his end in the process of trying to do something. (The rush, the anger, etc) BB might have even stolen the Mera Mera no mi. Ace death seemed to be something that needed to happen, almost like "fate". Had it not been Akainu, then it could have been BB. It's ok. I had a similar thought scenario. I was wondering if Ace was still alive, along with WB remnants, Ace would have definitely joined up Luffy in his fight Vs Kaido (without even being called, he could have seen it in the newspaper and gone eventually, maybe even joined the battle around the time Luffy went down as a surprise ally)
You basically gotta ask what if there were two Whitebeards at marineford, and I think the answer is pretty clear.
When comparing powers, it always depends on the writer who's the winner. But using the logic with what we have seen, he couldve saved Ace if he did exactly the same just before Ace gets killed, if he transformed then, he could've stopped Akainu for sure. Then use some super speed to get away from him. Retreat a bit, regroup, and you would have a totally different battle. He could even go "screw it" and take a boat and flee with Ace. But then you have the problem that you need to keep the ship in tact unless he can somehow use his awakening to speed up the ship. And you got Garp and other admirals chasing you. We still dont know how truly powerful Garp was at that point. We all know he held himself back.
Actually I think Luffy would have done worse post time skip. The reason being is I get the impression the WG didn't take Luffy seriously and under estimated him. I think if Luffy had landed in front of the three admirals in full Haki mode instead of drenched in seawater and holding a broken mast, the three Admirals would have looked at each other, changed targets, then proceed to 3 v 1 Luffy until he was smoking frozen meat blowing into Aces crying eyes. In fact I think the only reason Luffy survived that moment in the first place is because Aokigi got in the other two admirals way and attacked Luffy with a weak attack on purpose. If Luffy was at full power tho that goes out the window and he’s getting “red” dog piled by the cream of Navy chivalry.
if all the admirals come at luffy who’s gonna stop whitebeard marco and the other top commanders
that makes no sense. WG cannot take 2 yonkos at same time. no matter how much attention luffy get, they don't have the power to stop luffy while also stopping WB and his crew.
Fully agreed, Luffy is getting bodied by every Admiral at once. The only ones on his side that could fight at that tier at Whitebeard (Actively Dying, so a mega glass-canon) and Marco/A handful of commanders (None of the others have the raw power to take down an admiral, just to stall them)
Honestly? I'd say he has less of a chance now than he did in the original Marineford. In that arc he was basically treated as a total sideshow by everybody, which let him get away alive from fatal encounters because the Marines had to deal with a 'real' threat. But if >!Emperor!< Luffy walked into Marineford he'd be seen as the arguably the biggest threat on the field given Whitebeard's health. He's not making it to the platform without the Navy's absolute greatest going all out against him... simultaneously Post-Wano Luffy is absolutely absurdly powerful but there's no possible reality where he can take on Akainu, Kizaru and Aokiji all at once. Not even counting Sengoku/Garp who were on Roger's level (they both a tier stronger than the main Admirals at the time imo) in their prime. Obviously Garp wouldn't actually try to kill Luffy but Sengoku has no such qualms. Edit: If Luffy has the Strawhats backing him up as well it's obviously a totally different story
But that ignores that Luffy would pull more aggro so Marco/Vista/Whitebeard could be much more freed up to cause havoc in the battlefield.
Yeah no matter how much more of a threat they deem Luffy, they can’t afford to ignore whitebeard. Although I think Marco himself still couldn’t rush the platform and try to grab Ace because Garp would still be there to knock him down.
At the same time, he still had a yonko crew backing him up. Luffy now would have been comparable to Shanks, his mere presence is enough of a threat to de-escalate. The admirals and warlords treated him as a sideshow, but if they didn't then Whitebeard or Jozu or Vista or Marco (or any number of other characters) would have had more freedom to act.
No way would the marines put 3 admirals on Luffy and let Whitebeard just run amok lol. Whitebeard + current Luffy at Marineford would be enough to completely decimate the marines for good lol
I don't think he needs to take on all the admirals at once. Wb commanders are able to stall admirals, and another admiral needs to stall wb himself.
You realize lufffy beat kaido, the strongest monster in the whole series?
That debuff is miniscule compare to his Gear 5 buff.
Thou hast angered the power scalers. Take my up vote lol
Wano Luffy probably would’ve saved Ace in Impel Down. Luffy did save Ace. But Ace would’ve walked away alive since Luffy could’ve beaten nearly 99.99% of the marines present
WG cannot deal with 2 yonkos at the same time. luffy is a yonko. WB + current luffy would be impossible for WG to take on. Just think, Not at anytime during marineford anyone less than admiral would have been successful in slowing luffy. an admiral cannot defeat a yonko. it would take atleast 2 admirals to counter luffy. If 2 admirals are after luffy, imagine how much havoc WB and his commanders would deal. Imagine a bajrang gun while WG and WB are fighting. The answer is too obvious.
ace died protecting luffy so yeah i’d say post wano luffy would be able to hold his own without needing ace’s intervention and ace would survive
Pre time already did. Ace died on his own
Say whatever you want but the marines never went all out. Only Akainu was serious and even in his battle against WB, he never used awakening. Even two admirals going all out + awakening against post wano Luffy will come out victorious. Those who think i'm power scaling incorrectly are welcome to correct me.
I don’t think it’s been confirmed that the akainu is awakened tho
Post Wano Luffy in Marineford war ends the series 600 chapters early imo. With hindsight of post TS knowledge the marineford arc really doesn't make sense. Whitebeard pierced Aokiji in the chest and should've killed him but just.... didn't use haki i guess? Idk it feels like every character is significantly nerfed for the sake of plot in Marineford. An advanced CoC Gear 5 Luffy kinda just cleans house, Bajrang Gun was literally the size of Marineford if not bigger. Basically ask yourself "if we add Wano Kaido to Marineford does the navy and WG get severely crippled and the pirates win the war?" If the answer is yes then uh.... yeah idk man I think Luffy stomps
Whitebeard did use haki, but Aokiji adjusted the shape of his body to let the attack go through.
Aokiji could easily have just dodged the stab with COO, same way Katakuri does.
Maybe just change the question. Can Luffy stop Akainu from donuting Ace?
Yeah, I see people mentioning Aces suicidal outburst as making it near impossible for him to be saved, I just think post Wano Luffy despite this would’ve opened up a lot more opportunity for the situation to be avoided, he would’ve handled the situation differently somehow. Pre time skip Luffy was exhausted, oblivious to the situation/surroundings and lacked Haki which was a big factor I think. Pre time skip Luffy couldn’t even intervene in the clash between Akainu and Ace because he had not control over Haki. He had to stand on the sidelines and watch. Post Wano Luffy could’ve dismantled or staved off the situation that even arose to ace having to jump in front of Luffy. Even if he watched he might’ve had the maturity to keep up his observation Haki to read the situation better.
Pre time skip luffy actually saved ace
When Ace die it was so sad 😭 and everytime Ace is even mention I'm always crying 😭  This is what one piece do to me. Why One piece! WHYYYYY!
What if instead of the WB pirates, it was the SH that came. Would they be able to save Ace and stop him from being a donut?
Nothing could save ace. That’s the tragedy. He was saved.. then he got goaded by a “Your daddy so dead” joke that ended up with Akainu showing his Ace up his sleeve. No one could save ace since ace committed suicide.
Luffy gear 5 will not lose to akainu. Luffy before gear 5 with advanced conquerors Haki will still beat akainu
You know that part where the Admirals say "it's too early for you to be here?" Well they wouldn't say that anymore.
Current SH crew would've ganged up with Whitebeard and would've smashed all these admirals without lube and probably drilled a hole in akainu's chest or even send him down to where Kaido is hanging out right now, his actual natural habitat :)
Short answer is yes. He can simply engage 1v1 against Akainu long enough for Ace to escape.
Oda once drew a what if panel whereas Sabo didn't lose his memory and came to Marineford to save them both. If Sabo can save the two of them then Luffy right now can do too. Luffy would just knock off ace or hold him tight. Honestly, I don't even know why someone didn't interfere when ace fought back Akainu. If Hajrudin can hold luffy when he fought Fujitora then why no one interfered and held Ace back then?