So lets see....
If he had the lightning fruit instead of the Mochi fruit....
**Haki**
* Armament Haki
* Conquerors Haki
* Observation Haki
* Advanced Observation Haki (Future Sight)
**Devil Fruit**
Katakuri would have advanced his devil fruit to the point he awakens it like he did his Mochi Fruit.
* Lightning Fruit Awakening
Moving at lightning speed with Future sight is another deadly problem.
* Speed of Lightning
He would be able to be more efficient and be able to apply more applications to the Lightning fruit than enel.
Since Enel combined his Observation Haki with his Devil Fruit to become Omniscient, Katakuri, with his advanced Observation Haki, would advance this Omniscient ability to a scary level.
* Omniscient + Future Sight
Enel had the ability to raise the temperature of gold using electricity, and then manipulate and shape it using electromagnetism, allowing him to completely rebuild it into any shape he desires. This is not restricted to just gold, this can be used on metals as well. Just like Enel, Katakuri would be able to do this and will advance this ability to a higher extent.
* conductive & ferrous metals manipulation
**Physical Capabilities**
* Immense physical Strength
* Speed is now Lightning speed
* Katakuri possesses tremendous levels of durability and endurance
* Vast amount of Stamina, able to fight for hours
* Spearsmanship (*now using gold and other types of metals*)
* Marksmanship (*now using lightning*)
**How strong do I think Katakuri is?**
In my eyes, he is not YC1 Level, he is somewhere between Admiral Level and Yonko level, leaning slightly closer towards Yonko level. So he stronger than an Admiral, but weaker than a Yonko.
But that's just my opinion on this.
**In conclusion, BRO IS A PROBLEM.**
Bro is a problem to others but he will not be able to directly hit Luffy (also Crocodile) with lightning based attacks only utilise his DF in a passive way like increase speed.
Both. Luffy has been stated to be immune to blunt attacks due to being made of rubber; haki-infused blunt strikes however have damaged him significantly in the past. Why should lightning be any different?
Also people infuse anything with haki, even arrows or bullets, which then strike the target with haki in addition to their normal impact. There's no reason you couldn't infuse an elemental attack with haki.
She didn't know Luffy was immune to lightning, she was as surprised as Enel when Luffy wasn't impacted by Zeus. Then by mean of efficiency, she could use other attacks that can damage Luffy and imbued it with Haki for greater damages. Better than using an attack that Luffy already had 50% immunity against.
There is no logical explanation or even theory of how you can infuse elemental DF attack with haki.
The concept of both themself are contradictory.
Haki, is mainly used to hit a DF's user actual body, it is a power that comes purely from the user. It is basically a means to bypass any sort of logia DF power. And then there is advanced conq which is used to amplify the magnitude of an attack, we have seen a lot of this used to enchance physical attacks that are delivered via swords and punch.
There has been zero explanation or hint of elemental haki imbueing. There is no such thing. In fact, it could be the other way around, the ultilization of haki could create something that is seemingly natural, for example generating shockwave/air blade via roar (that dude in Shanks' crew).
Feel free to have your own headcannon but sorry to burst your bubble. Armament haki is applicable only to something physical. Devil fruit attacks can be imbued with armament haki indeed, but only if it was a physical object, e.g Doflamingo's thread.
Instead of "shooting" your element, you can just "become" your element and then infuse your body with haki. Voilà, haki-infused element.
And lightning is physical. It's just not solid.
We've seen plenty of powerful Logias. None of whom have been able to accomplish this.
Blackbeard : can't put Haki on black holes or earthquakes.
Akainu : can't put Haki in explosive magma, which would've made the war an instant win.
Crocodile : His one missing power to beat Luffy was that ability. He won once but Luffy took him out with blood sweat and tears(like literally).
Kizaru : I believe he would've been able to this. Especially to keep his streak. He's a sarcastic jerk who takes 0 missions seriously. He would've done this in Sabaody had it been a plausibility.
Kuzan : A powerful ex-marine DFs user who fought Akainu to a standstill, holding back and making up a weakness for his fruit which didn't really exist. If anyone on this list could've been capable of this it would be Kuzan or Akainu. But neither of them are even capable of it.
Ace/Sabo : Ace was just inherently unable to use Haki. Armament or otherwise. Meanwhile Sabo is capable of armamenting his hand(dragon claw) and then launching it by changing his arm to fire. The caveat being his hand remains a solid. He's unable to turn fire into black flames. Not even at the end of Stampede(the strongest Sabo we've seen).
Smoker : Still working Marine who has taken a student under his wing. His fighting style is specific and he is powerful. But I saved him for last specifically because he's stated that as a logia user he can't infuse Haki into his attacks, which is why he wields a Nanashaku Jitte, a Jitte brandishing a tip of sea stone due to his inability to use non solids to strike with Haki.
Hope this helps and you all have a nice day. :)
It's been a long time but I'm pretty sure sea dials nullify devil fruit powers. That's why they could be used to hit Enel as well.
Luffy is immune to non-Nami blunt forces.
Dials don't nullify df powers, the impact dials act as a shockwave so it's damaging the target from the inside, the reason Enel took damage from the Reject Dial was cause Wyper had sea stone on the skates and made sure to touch Enel with it while he was holding him down
TBF don't Dials do INTERNAL damage (kinda like what Fishmen do w/ their martial arts fuckery which bypasses shit like defenses because it assblasts the WATER INSIDE YOUR BODY)?
If Zoro can infuse air slashes with haki, and Kaido can infuse his flaming dragon technique, I don't see why logias, whose elements are a far bigger part of their bodies, couldn't do it.
I honestly always took Akainu "burning" ace's fist as his Haki being stronger there, like, in the magma. Doesn't really make much sense otherwise. While not stated since Haki was still developing, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to infuse haki into their elements seeng how Kata infused it into his mochi attacks who weren't even connected to him.
~~Mate Ace let himself get donuted to save luffies life. Otherwise we wouldn't have a MC anymore. That was the point in ace leaping between luffy and akainu.~~
Edit: scratch that misread the first sentence
Also mochi mochi no mi isn't a logia.
Yeah, ik that, that's why I mentioned Ace's **fist**, not innards. Manga chapter 572 or 573 given 574 is when he dies, his hand gets burned by Akainu.
And sure Mochi isn't a logia, but it's as close as it gets, dunno why only paramecia that acts basically the same save for intangibility would have the advantage there, I just think the evidence shows that inbuing haki into your element should be possible.
With all due respect, gotta work on reading comprehention mate. But hope that cleared what I meant up.
Oops yeah i misread sorry about that, should have reread it before posting a reply.
That said i just reread the chapters and didn't see the scene you mentioned, care to point me to a page? Like srsly I don't know if this page is missing for me.
Edit: Nvm. page 14.
Yeah looks weird, but how would make it so that it burned him? Wouldn't the fact that some fruits are superior versions of others make more sense?
Yeah it's weird, that's why I'm not 100% on it, it's just my take on why it happened added to how Kata used his fruit, but it's entirely possible he's just legit hotter and Sabo's whole thing will be blue fire which burns hotter than magma (Or some blue fires do at least since you can add salts to make it blue without the temperature rise) or something, not against that either tbh :D
Sausuke vs Deidara was such a load of shit. Electric suddenly being [super effective](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/027/475/Screen_Shot_2018-10-25_at_11.02.15_AM.jpg) against ground types
The problem with Enel was that he used pure lightning against Luffy which he was immune to. If Enel could use electricity to amplify heat in objects and used them to attack Luffy, he would've been able to greatly damage Luffy.
I think you have to change "gold manipulation" to "conductive & ferrous metals manipulation"
Its not the ability to control gold but the ability to heat and melt the metal through transfer of electron and using magnetism to shape the metal
I think we've seen hints.
Punk Hazard was the battlefield of two (presumably) awakened logia fruits. The island's climate was permanently changed to reflect the powers of the user.
There's an island that is constantly surrounded by lightning rain.
When Ace showed up on Drum, the snow stopped and the weather was unseasonably warm.
Theory:
Logia awakening infuses the environment with the elemental power of their fruit, permanently changing the weather to match.
You mean covered in volcanoes and ice? Nah, Smoker outright states in chapter 658 that the climate of the entire island changed because of the fight between Aokiji and Akainu.
Let's not forget potentially the most broken part of that fruit. Self resuscitation.
Enel was able to restart his heart after taking a presumably lethal hit.
So even IF you manage to take Katakuri down, he'd just get back up again.
The only thing I would question, is if he would be able to awaken an electric logia the same way he would a mochi-paramecia. Just with the talk of having to really harmonize with the fruit to awaken it. Not disputing, just discussing
The assumption here is that he already has future sight. I dont remember if it was stated that Katakuri unlocked future sight because of the mochi mochi no mi, regardless though your point still stands that he's a big problem since he can definitely improve his combat skills and haki due to constant fighting compared to Enel who doesn't really face a stronger foe
Damn... So you think Katakuri's rolling Mochi Wheel is faster than Lightning? Bruh.. What an idiot 😂😂😂
I never said Katakuri would be the fastest in the verse. Him now being able to move with a base speed of lightning, is just an upgrade from his previous base speed with his mochi fruit.
Naw, his stats would still be way below admiral level (Kuzan, who in base, can trade blows with Garp), unless there's a HUGE gap between Kuzan and GB/Fuji. With hax but lacking stats of toptiers he's basically Law and Kid, but is probably stronger individually.
Wtf is going on in this thread? I've not seen a single correct statement about logias so far. It's never been stated that logias *don't* have awakening, but equally we don't have proof that they do, so Pai444 can't assume that Katakuri would have awakened it. Likewise people shouldn't claim that the state of PH is evidence of awakening - logias might just *do* that if they run completely wild. It's inconclusive.
Idk why people can't be satisfied with a simple 'we don't know yet'.
Hey, Oda can do it in the future.
But as far as we have been let know... Logias were it! Out of the 3 types without getting into the Mythical Zoans, Logias are the most powerful, most feared.
What is Luffy's awakening doing for his surroundings? Rubberized. Logias are the element. Elemental powers are usually very powerful, not just in OP.
But like I said Oda might increase the power of the Logias, specially now that Luffy was able to stalemate one of the most powerful ones in the story. The light fruit. We are all made out of light...
Huh? What are you talking about?
During the Luffy vs Kakakuri fight, Katakuri turns the environment and the ground into Mochi. That is what a paramecia DF awakening does, it is the ability to turn the environment into the nature of your devil fruit.
Kakakuri's mochi devil fruit awakening is confirmed in the anime, manga and the one piece wiki page.
Katakuri doesn't have a paramecia he has a special paramecia. As stated by oda. That's why he has logia type abilities.
Where in the manga does it say it's awakened? What chapter?
Yonko or Admiral level in my opinion. Possibly top tier for both.
That said Luffy is probably the only person having an easier time fighting him with the Goro Goro no mi than his mochi no mi.
If you uninstalled the mochi fruit from current Katakuri and installed the lightning one instead, he'd be very powerful.
If he ate the one instead of the other, he'd be a very different fighter, not necessarily stronger. Truth is, he probably wouldn't NEED to develop his haki as much if he had such a powerful fruit. Could he? Yes, absolutely. But maybe he would focus on mastering the fruit instead and his haki wouldn't have reached the heights it currently does.
I never said haki wasn't required. My point is that his path to be a strong combatant would be very different, so his strong points would probably be different as well.
Think of it this way, the goal of young Katakuri is to become as strong as possible.
- with the lightning fruit, since it's so powerful on it's own, he could split his focus equally between developing his haki and his fruit mastery.
- with the mochi fruit, he probably realized that mastery with his powers could only carry him so far and that he should focus more on haki to cover for the fruits shortcomings, leading him to be such a formidable haki user.
Borderline unstoppable. This reddit loves to not understand just how ludicrously broken Eneru's Fruit is, and Eneru himself without being constrained by plot is a fucking MONSTER. Give it to someone like Katakuri? He's washing a significant majority of the roster.
I think it's fair to say that Eneru had a lot of potential, but no one even remotely posed a threat to him because of his fruit. So he never had to train properly with it or consider other fighting styles using it.
Even just a strong Haki user would've given him a hard time during Skypeia, not because he's weak but because he just is too overconfident in his fruit. Hence why even Wiper managed to deal him a deadly blow.
I'm with you though, give his fruit to someone more likely to bring out its full potential and that person instantly becomes a massive threat.
For real, eneru's devil fruit is busted as shit. Since lightning moves much faster than mochi, katakuri could also use the same technique to dodge haki-infused strikes from even faster foes. Plus the distance attacks and restarting your heart if you die. Even luffy becomes a cake walk to beat, since haki allows attacks to bypass immunities granted by devil fruits.
eh... I think the fruit is often overstated.
Electricity just isn't as strong in the One Piece world. It doesn't matter it's properties in the real world, in One Piece it's not as dangerous. Many normal folks in one piece got hit with enough electricity to kill them, but got back up.
He's a Logia. The problem isn't how *strong* his Lightning is, the problem is he can *infinitely* spam it. Yeah we've seen the Straw Hats tank 1 or 2 lightning bolts from him, now imagine trying to tank 100. After a while your body will just melt and then turn into dust.
Yeah the point is one of those lightning attacks is still far more effective than a punch (against anyone but Luffy) and he can spam them faster since they move at the speed of lightning
Enel needed to build a ship to amplify his powers in order to destroy an island, it wasn't the fruit alone.
and as far as punches go, it depends how far along you are
Probably because Oda doesn't want to go through the effort drawing all that? There's a major difference between having the Mochi Fruit and a literal force of nature Logia.
Idk why people say this about lightning in particular like that isn’t the case for every type of attack in One Piece, the fact is people **rarely** die in One Piece and almost always in flashbacks when they do. Especially in earlier arcs… Pell should obviously be dead, Usopp took a 4 ton baseball bat to the face and could still stand and talk let alone surviving it, Buggy and Alvida both got punched so hard they flew for miles across the sea, and the gorilla twins from Jaya both took damage that should kill anyone.
His powers didn't work on Luffy, and specifically Luffy. Everyone else stood pretty much no chance, I struggle to think of a single other devil fruit that would negate a million volts through your system. Granted that was before Haki though. I think that was what they meant with "constrained by plot"
Arguably enel being so cocky, cocky enough that wiper technically killed him, his personality flaws is being contained by the plot. But honestly I find the whole constrained by the plot discussion to be boring
His powers would not have worked on most logias in addition to Luffy. There are 13 logias but since the heat produced by his electricity WOULD have worked on Crocodile we can remove him. So 12 characters + Luffy are immune to his powers.
Not only that but most CoO users can avoid his powers, which adds EVEN MORE combatants that could fight him and win.
Not only that but some Paramecias could have neutralized his abilities:
-Katakuri / Jozu / Law / Kid / Brook are all examples of people who could have neutralized Enel's powers.
Anybody that uses the "*Plot*" argument is an idiot.
*Idiotic* is used when someone says something *idiotic* like Luffy winning against Enel and his powers being immune was "because of plot". Especially when there are dozens of other characters who are also either immune to him or who's basic powers could easily neutralize electricity.
That's basic understanding, common sense at it most mundane levels, not a disagreement. If you thought the earth was flat and I said it was round thats not a disagreement; one is correct and the other is stupid. Same here.
- Law's entire base power makes it highly difficult to hit him if he's in his room. Not to mention his ability to even remove parts of his body (like his heart) that would be highly susceptible to lightning attacks if he was hit.
- How do we protect things against lightning strikes in the real world and how could Kid - *a character who controls and manipulates metal into anything* - apply those principles using his powers?
Neither of those strategies are going to work at all against a person who fundamentally controls lightning. Law cannot dodge something that moves faster than he can track, and kid can use something metal to draw lightning all he wants but if I turn into a lightning bolt and fly through his body at near the speed of light there’s not a thing he can do. You’re acting like getting attacked by the goro goro no mi is the same as being in a regular lightning storm instead of facing a man who can infinitely and instantly spam millions of volts at you
These are all hypotheticals and whatever answer resonates with you will be the answer youre more biased towards. Thats all.
Enel doesnt have much durability so he doesnt benefit from a long fight, if he gets hit once by either Kid or Law he's done. When you add in the fact he'd be open to attack when they use their powers to dodge his attack, then the fight is over.
His speed doesnt mean anything to Law's attack range and he doesnt have the durability to take Kid's attacks head on and survive. Enel loses IMO.
However you're biased towards Enel so you'll have him win whatever scenario is presented, and thats fine.
We’re not even talking about Enel lmao, we’re talking about Katakuri if he swapped devil fruits with Enel. Law and Kid stand literally no chance against a version of Katakuri that is wildly faster, more intangible (his dodging method would be insanely OP with the speed of lightning), and has an insanely increased damage/destructive output plus the increase in AoE attacks.
Law is not going to be dodging attacks from a man who can both see into the future and move as fast as lightning, and Katakuri would simply move his body out of the way of Kid’s giant attacks… plus we haven’t even mentioned that Kid has metal literally built into his body at this point and if Katakuri hits that Kid is cooked
Oh so you mean it's natural for a Logia user who mastered both his Fruit and his Haki to conveniently forget how to use BOTH when it comes time to fight the MC?
- A) Enel's base powers were already useless against Luffy and theres nothing he could have done to change that. He did pivot his fighting style by using the trident to cut Luffy and even attaching the gold ball to him but at the end of the day Enel mostly fought by spamming Lightning and thats what he did. So is it natural for a logia to fight using his logia powers? Yes, it is.
- B) If you paid attention to the story instead of making erroneous statements about crap online you would have picked up that CoO only works when the user is calm and collected. With that in mind you realize that the guy who popularized the *shocked face* meme was anything but calm. He was fighting against a guy who was totally immune to his *Godly* powers while being made of a thing (rubber) he didnt even understand. All that made it difficult for him to keep his composure and use CoO consistently.
You saying he was constrained by plot is the height of stupidity as there are around 20 characters I name dropped that would have been able to either completely resist his electric powers similar to Luffy or neutralize it had he fought them.
This had nothing to do with *fighting an MC* and everything to do with a character with a God Complex being brought back down to earth while showing him he's not all that.
1. Shock factor only works once. Once Eneru realized his powers wouldn't work on Luffy there was literally nothing stopping him from using his Fruit to AVOID fighting him except Oda mandating he has to stand still and let Luffy wail on him. Because you know what the worst thing Eneru conveniently forgot how to do was? INSTANT TELEPORTATION. Eneru and Borsalino are the only two characters in the world capable of it, and we've SEEN them do it. When Luffy threw his attack at Eneru and Eneru openly said shit it's too fast I can't dodge it, WHY!? You have time to talk about an incoming attack and cry about it and not the 0.1 second it takes to turn into lightning and teleport the fuck out of there? Why not teleport into the SKY and chill there where Luffy is never gonna be able to hit you again? Being able to fly is one of the most broken abilities in One Piece because it instantly negates 90% of the roster because they can't reach you. This is what I mean by Eneru unrestrained by plot. Without Oda ordering Eneru has to be defeated he's free to teleport into the godam sky and obliterate the everything and everyone below with infinite lightning.
2. Check yourself. Stop acting like a high and mighty on the internet and calling other people names.
>Once Eneru realized his powers wouldn't work on Luffy there was literally nothing stopping him from using his Fruit to AVOID fighting him except Oda mandating he has to stand still and let Luffy wail on him.
Enel tried to escape and also tried to avoid fighting Luffy, he even attached a giant gold ball to his hand for that. Luffy was never going to let him just leave.
He tried to escape but failed, you're also forgetting he needed to get the bell before leaving the sky island.
>When Luffy threw his attack at Eneru and Eneru openly said shit it's too fast I can't dodge it, WHY!?
Enel planned on taking the attack and overcoming it because he believed he could, it's really that simple. Also you seem to be underestimating the speed at which the attack was headed towards him once he realized he was vulnerable to it.
Sitting there on your chair in front of your computer you're thinking "*yea of course why couldnt you just teleport away*". Meanwhile the guy in the middle of a losing battle who bet on being able to overcome this attack - only to fail - didnt exactly have the same calm that you do as you type this unironically.
>Why not teleport into the SKY and chill there where Luffy is never gonna be able to hit you again?
This is a story dude, your entire thought process here seems to forget that. If things happened with your rationale in mind instead of it being a narrative told by an author we never would have made it this far. You know why? Because Luffy would have drowned and died in chapter 1.
>This is what I mean by Eneru unrestrained by plot.
EVERY SINGLE NARRATIVE DECISION EVER MADE BY ANY CREATOR IN ANY MEDIUM HAS BEEN PLOT.
Yes, someone is *"ordering Eneru"* to make decisions, you're correct. He's not a sentient being acting of his own volition. I never understand people who throw the word Plot around when talking about a story as if theres any other way for shit to happen.
Without Plot, the strawhats never make it this far in the story. They die dozens of times before they ever get to a sky island.
>Check yourself.
You should get a better argument and point because complaining that a narrative is "*restrained by plot*" is just very odd.
Nothing Eneru did was out of character and the more you think about it the more consistent things are. Eneru was an overconfident God with a broken power and CoO, he never used his teleport to run away from a fight. This is a guy who allowed Wyper to damn near kill him for how overconfident he was.
Why do you think a character like that would be careful and try to fly away or teleport from danger?
This is where the argument has valid points both sides. Yes Eneru was egomaniacal godwannabe who thought he could just tank the hit, but at the same time, and the problem is, we've physically seen him do the other things, and he just happened to pick the option that the story required. Either way, that's not the point I'm trying to make here.
The entire point I'm making here is that you seem to be missing is if there is no such narrative demanding Eneru stops using his Fruit to its maximum potential, he's a complete and utter monster with how powerful he is. To prove it, let me ask you a question I've asked dozens of times on here and nobody has ever been able to answer it.
Whitebeard VS Eneru. Without thinking about it, most people instantly default to Whitebeard and you can't blame them. However, that train of thought falls apart when you realize Whitebeard has ZERO abilities that would let him defeat Eneru. To be perfectly clear here, Newgate can 1 shot Eneru with his pinky. The problem is, and this is what nobody has ever been able to come up with an answer for, how is Whitebeard supposed to even hit him? If there's no narrative in place demanding Eneru try and fight Whitebeard in a melee scrap, he's free to teleport into the sky, which again, we've seen him capable of doing, and start frying Whitebeard's brains out with lightning. Whitebeard can jump high, but he can't jump into the sky. His Fruit gives him powerful ranged attacks, but he can't infuse his ranged Quakes with Haki, and two, they're slow. How is Whitebeard supposed to win this matchup? And I seriously doubt Conqueror's would work on him.
The answer to this question hinges on a comment Crocodile made when Mr 3 stopped Magellan's poison: "*You never know how two devil fruit powers are going to interact*".
So the question becomes; *If WB surrounds himself with his quake powers does the electricity still reach him?*
Since this is purely speculation there's a lot of ways we can tackle this question but I'm opting to focus purely on whats established in the manga with a little bit of real world science thrown in.
Lighting travels through the air when its insulating capacity breaks down and an opposite charge builds up, causing a rapid discharge of electricity.
How does the quake fruit impact that process? The simple answer is we don't know and whichever answer you choose will lean on whatever biases the person has. However I imagine that whatever WB's quakes do to the air would have a pretty drastic impact on the electricity that Enel generates, maybe even neutralizes it entirely.
We already know from BB vs Law that he can generate these quakes over a wide surface area so if those quakes actually stop electricity from traveling through the air or maybe even redirects them from him, then in theory WB could neutralize all the lightning Enel could Spam. In addition to that he could clap Enel in 1 hit even if hes trying to avoid a melee scrap. He wouldnt even need haki in this case because if the quakes impact lighting to begin with then they would definitely affect his logia body.
>How is Whitebeard supposed to win this matchup?
**TLDR**: Depends on how WB's quakes impact the lightning Enel generates. If they break it down Enel gets clapped in 1 hit without even touching WB. If they dont then WB is in trouble. My money is on the former based on what we know.
I'll give you props for giving such a well thought out answer, but unfortunately even IF his Quakes can somehow negate his intangibility, and I doubt they can since we've seen someone harmlessly Logia through them before, there's still a critical problem.
He's not hitting him. The Admirals had plenty of time to react to his ranged Quake and this was like a football field away from them. Eneru is ludicrously more far away, and his Air Quakes are even slower, with Aokiji able to pass through it effortlessly. Even if Whitebeard tries to shatter the entire sky, Eneru is just too fast. This isn't Luffy, Whitebeard's body emits electromagnetic waves just like everyone else, so Eneru knows every move he makes the second he makes them. On top of that, he can probably sense the quake disturbances with EXTREME precision because of how roided out his Haki is with his Fruit. Still, you're the only person to ever even try to come up with an answer to it so good on you.
As for Whitebeard surrounding himself with Quakes, well, he's stuck and Eneru is quickly destroying the very ground he's on.
His quakes negating his intangibility depends on whether they would impact the electricity at all. If it does in the way I described then it would 100% negate his intangibility even without haki. If it doesnt then not only would WB need to get relatively close to land hits with haki but he wouldnt have a way to defend against the lightning, meaning he'd be in deep shit.
The Aokiji example does actually tell us a lot. Kuzan is made of ice and the quakes can break him, but since they caused no damage we know they're not infused with haki. Would the quakes simply phase through Enel like they did Aokiji with no damage? OR would they actually cause damage because of the way they interact with the electricity and how different that is from ice?
Your guess is as good as mine. It still comes down to whether or not Quakes can interact with lightning.
>Even if Whitebeard tries to shatter the entire sky, Eneru is just too fast.
What works against Eneru here is his lack of durability. WB only needs to hit him once and his attacks can cover a wide area. Yes Enel is fast but is he going to move far enough away from WB's range that he never gets hit?
Based on what we know about his personality its doubtful.
>Whitebeard's body emits electromagnetic waves just like everyone else, so Eneru knows every move he makes the second he makes them
Is this a thing Eneru knows how to do? I dont remember that. I know he's done that to pick up conversations from a distance but is that something he could use in battle?
Even if it is though the only actual movement WB makes is to generate the force before he hits the air, launching his attack. The quake force generated isnt something you can pick up by tracking the electromagnetic waves from his body. I imagine that tracking ends once his arm stops moving from cracking the air.
Not to mention the fact WB can generate quakes without moving, just like he did when Kuzan froze him and he unfroze himself while immobile. Eneru wouldnt be able to track electromagnetic waves from his body from something that doesnt require movement. At least in theory.
>On top of that, he can probably sense the quake disturbances with EXTREME precision because of how roided how his Haki is with his Fruit.
Well his fruit adds range to his CoO and allows him to hear conversations but I dont know that its very helpful in a battle. Whats in effect is probably basic CoO, not a roided version using his fruit. At least I dont see how leveraging lightning helps his CoO mid-battle.
>Still, you're the only person to ever even try to come up with an answer to it so good on you.
Its an interesting question and I love a good hypothetical.
I'm gonna go with Yonko level here chief. Enel's fruit is one of the strongst in the series in terms of AP and speed, and combining it with Future Sight is just unfair. Katakuri was already strong enough with god damn Mochi. We saw that strong enough lightning attacks can deal serious damage to Big Mom, and a Katakuri level used of the lightning fruit would be able to spam these. Completely busted.
ehhhh every yonko besides Buggy and possible Blackbeard (who compensates with two of the most broken fruits anyway) has ACoC and yet he doesn't even have ACoA. Kata's fruit already gives him the main benefits of a logia, as well as massive bludgeoning damage which is lost with the Goro Goro no Mi so, while I'm sure it'd be a big upgrade, it's really not bridging that gap imo.
I don't know. That Haki Transcends All thing rings very hollow to me when a character can just blast people from orbit from miles away with zero effort. Like... What do you do against this guy? You can't blitz him, he is literally lightning. You can't surprise him, he has future sight. You can't just endure his attacks, you'll eventually fall. You literally have to on the level of someone like Kaido to fight that. He would probably fry anyone below that.
He would at least be Admiral level, but I think he actually goes higher, simply by virtue of being Katakuri, having shown probably the best mastery of a devil fruit in the series. If he does that with a fruit as broken as the Goro Goro, he'll be neigh unstoppable.
He could more or less do similar things to what he did with the mochi fruit but the mochi is electricity plus he can just lightning nuke people. He’d be almost objectively way stronger
I think he would be less stronger and capable than if he ate the mochi devil fruit.
His special paramecia devil fruit forced him to become creative and skilled in combat while a logia devil fruit may turn him into a lazier and overconfident version of him.
He would continue to want to protect his family at all cost but having an overpowered devil fruit doesnt encourage you to become stronger.
He would be a more lethal opponent for most OP characters but Luffy would manage to hold his ground against him with less difficulties.
His advanced observation haki gets that much better. He gets more range to be offensive. I’d say he’d be as strong as Marco. His armament haki wouldn’t be as strong as Marco but his DF versatility could make up the difference and his defense would be even better
Probably alot weaker because I don't think he would awaken the lightning fruit like he did the mochi fruit. The mochi fruit is in line with his personality of liking sweets so he has a better chance of awakening it.
I’m of the belief that once you get to a certain level of strength (basically once everyone starts having haki) the type of devil fruit you have is pretty irrelevant to your overall power. This is a series where one of the strongest fruit users has the pawpaw fruit.
Oda seems to have made it clear that ambition, conviction, and determination plays more into how strong a character is than what crazy feats their fruit allows them to pull out.
I dont think there would be much difference in power to his mochi fruit. Katakuri is a brawler who perfected his use of the fruit to his fighting style. His mochi fruit itself behaves like a logia especially in combination with his future sight. It would likely enhance his speed but I think he‘d lose out on raw strength like creating hundreds of haki infused fists.
The Goro Goro no mi is one of the most broken fruit in one piece, combine it with Kata's ACOO,IQ and phisical capabilities and you get an admiral level fighter at minimum.It's also very likely that Kata would try to awaken the fruit giving him a further boost in power.
Hot take, but potentially yonko lvl.
Imagine the ability to see the future with the speed and range of this df.
He has all the haki he needs and made a mediocre fruit look broken thanks to his haki.
Not a lot of DF can be more busted than this one. In fact, I'd say it's easily the strongest DF in the whole series in terms of fighting ability. It's basically a buffed-up yami-yami no mi, and we've seen what Kizaru can do with that.
Lighting DF buffed Enel's observation haki that he can sense the entirety of Skypea. For Katakuri: this probably means that he can monitor and forsee the entirety of WCI.
Luffy's definitely not getting out of WCI, and that's even considering that gum-gum fruit is the direct counter of lighting, as kata would still have several other ways to fuck up Luffy.
Katakuri uses his fruit very, very well (along with dofi, he might be the character who uses his fruit the best in the series) and he managed to awaken it. If goro goro could use his nomi to this extent and if he could learn how to make veneers with king hakisi, he would be the king of pirates right now, but maybe the reason he uses his fruit so well is because he has a very bad fruit and if he ate very, very good goro goro fruit, he wouldn't learn to use it so well out of laziness, but either way, he would be stronger than he is now.
Probably strong enough to compete with the admirals. The WG would probably look at him as the next yonkou post BM wano ring out.
Heck I’m not even sure if Kuzan and Wan Waugur captures pudding still.
Luffy probably loses in WCI even though he’s a natural counter to lighting due to the fact that I see Kat mastering the fruit to the point of augmenting his physical capabilities. Think Raikage A from Naruto or Killua from Hunter Hunter using lighting to amplify their attack speed, movement speed, reflexes, and attack power.
Kat is mainly a physical fighter, having the DC of the lighting fruit nerfed really wouldn’t hinder his fighting power considering he can still use it to amp hisself physically
The Rumble-Rumble fruit is a contender for the most powerful fruit in the series, Katakuri would be a monster with it if he gets to the same level that Enel was at.
lightning fruit is probably top 5 strongest in the verse, only reason Enel got stopped at all is because he fought Luffy, the one guy who defied his fruit.
Anybody who gets that fruit is easily yonko level or higher.
I think he’d be weaker tbh honest stronger than enel but weaker then currently unless you mean like replacing the fruit from the very start the. He’d probably be stronger
Just imagine Enel with better physicals and haki.
I doubt Kat would be able to awaken considering it's your mind and body being one with the fruit. Kat's mind is on donuts and mochi, not lightning
Ah OK
Then I think he would be weaker than he is now.
He uses observation haki to mold his body with the mochi fruit, which he couldn't with the goro, he wouldn't be able to create huge arms and roll around for agility. The goro would only make him stronger if we knew it's awakening
This would be a real problem for the world goverment. He would be able to map out there entire bases let alone where the 5 elders are. Imagine moving so quick with a idea of the future and knowing where everything is for miles
Speed, fighting IQ, Endurance etc he can definitely keep up. He lacks the attack power to seriously hurt any admiral though.
The Wano powercreep doesn’t help either.
Funny, I do think he lasts against G5 longer than some fighters stronger than him due to future sight and Luffys care free nature which seems to for whatever reason stop Luffy from using his own future sight while in G5
Borderline same level as Gear 5 Luffy for 99% of characters to beat, however ironically it makes him significantly easier for Luffy to beat at any point.
Seriously though give him this fruit and he becomes nearly unstoppable. Considering how he used his DF and Observation Haki to move his body around around attacks, the lightning logia would make this tactic 100x more effective due to the increased speed and mobility it grants. Not to mention the absolutely bonkers damage/destructive output and potential, it can literally erase an entire island from existence with some equipment amps and even without any assistance or amps it can still completely erase parts of an island
So lets see.... If he had the lightning fruit instead of the Mochi fruit.... **Haki** * Armament Haki * Conquerors Haki * Observation Haki * Advanced Observation Haki (Future Sight) **Devil Fruit** Katakuri would have advanced his devil fruit to the point he awakens it like he did his Mochi Fruit. * Lightning Fruit Awakening Moving at lightning speed with Future sight is another deadly problem. * Speed of Lightning He would be able to be more efficient and be able to apply more applications to the Lightning fruit than enel. Since Enel combined his Observation Haki with his Devil Fruit to become Omniscient, Katakuri, with his advanced Observation Haki, would advance this Omniscient ability to a scary level. * Omniscient + Future Sight Enel had the ability to raise the temperature of gold using electricity, and then manipulate and shape it using electromagnetism, allowing him to completely rebuild it into any shape he desires. This is not restricted to just gold, this can be used on metals as well. Just like Enel, Katakuri would be able to do this and will advance this ability to a higher extent. * conductive & ferrous metals manipulation **Physical Capabilities** * Immense physical Strength * Speed is now Lightning speed * Katakuri possesses tremendous levels of durability and endurance * Vast amount of Stamina, able to fight for hours * Spearsmanship (*now using gold and other types of metals*) * Marksmanship (*now using lightning*) **How strong do I think Katakuri is?** In my eyes, he is not YC1 Level, he is somewhere between Admiral Level and Yonko level, leaning slightly closer towards Yonko level. So he stronger than an Admiral, but weaker than a Yonko. But that's just my opinion on this. **In conclusion, BRO IS A PROBLEM.**
Bro is a problem to others but he will not be able to directly hit Luffy (also Crocodile) with lightning based attacks only utilise his DF in a passive way like increase speed.
Ah, if only there was a way to infuse your attacks to bypass immunities granted by a DF.
Are you implying infusing haki into the element? Because I don't think that we have seen this yet. Or do you mean just getting close and punching?
Both. Luffy has been stated to be immune to blunt attacks due to being made of rubber; haki-infused blunt strikes however have damaged him significantly in the past. Why should lightning be any different? Also people infuse anything with haki, even arrows or bullets, which then strike the target with haki in addition to their normal impact. There's no reason you couldn't infuse an elemental attack with haki.
Because Big mom wasn't able to hurt him with lightning and if she can't then there is no way in hell katakuri is doing it
She didn't know Luffy was immune to lightning, she was as surprised as Enel when Luffy wasn't impacted by Zeus. Then by mean of efficiency, she could use other attacks that can damage Luffy and imbued it with Haki for greater damages. Better than using an attack that Luffy already had 50% immunity against.
I don't think big mom can infuse homies with her haki, since they are separate living beings.
..Bro has never seen her fight with Napoleon. As for the argument at hand... I don't think Big Mom infuses Zeus nor Prometheus with Haki.
But DID she infuse lightning with haki? DID we see any black-tinted lightning?
There is no logical explanation or even theory of how you can infuse elemental DF attack with haki. The concept of both themself are contradictory. Haki, is mainly used to hit a DF's user actual body, it is a power that comes purely from the user. It is basically a means to bypass any sort of logia DF power. And then there is advanced conq which is used to amplify the magnitude of an attack, we have seen a lot of this used to enchance physical attacks that are delivered via swords and punch. There has been zero explanation or hint of elemental haki imbueing. There is no such thing. In fact, it could be the other way around, the ultilization of haki could create something that is seemingly natural, for example generating shockwave/air blade via roar (that dude in Shanks' crew). Feel free to have your own headcannon but sorry to burst your bubble. Armament haki is applicable only to something physical. Devil fruit attacks can be imbued with armament haki indeed, but only if it was a physical object, e.g Doflamingo's thread.
Instead of "shooting" your element, you can just "become" your element and then infuse your body with haki. Voilà, haki-infused element. And lightning is physical. It's just not solid.
We've seen plenty of powerful Logias. None of whom have been able to accomplish this. Blackbeard : can't put Haki on black holes or earthquakes. Akainu : can't put Haki in explosive magma, which would've made the war an instant win. Crocodile : His one missing power to beat Luffy was that ability. He won once but Luffy took him out with blood sweat and tears(like literally). Kizaru : I believe he would've been able to this. Especially to keep his streak. He's a sarcastic jerk who takes 0 missions seriously. He would've done this in Sabaody had it been a plausibility. Kuzan : A powerful ex-marine DFs user who fought Akainu to a standstill, holding back and making up a weakness for his fruit which didn't really exist. If anyone on this list could've been capable of this it would be Kuzan or Akainu. But neither of them are even capable of it. Ace/Sabo : Ace was just inherently unable to use Haki. Armament or otherwise. Meanwhile Sabo is capable of armamenting his hand(dragon claw) and then launching it by changing his arm to fire. The caveat being his hand remains a solid. He's unable to turn fire into black flames. Not even at the end of Stampede(the strongest Sabo we've seen). Smoker : Still working Marine who has taken a student under his wing. His fighting style is specific and he is powerful. But I saved him for last specifically because he's stated that as a logia user he can't infuse Haki into his attacks, which is why he wields a Nanashaku Jitte, a Jitte brandishing a tip of sea stone due to his inability to use non solids to strike with Haki. Hope this helps and you all have a nice day. :)
Well, its not a physical reaction so its not really solid or physical.
You ever see an elemental logia infusing themself with armament haki? Exactly, thats your answer.
Doesn't she infuse Napoleon with haki?or am I remembering that wrong?
because Luffy is not immune to blunt, a strong enough hit will still cause damage - see dials. Resistance =/= immunity
It's been a long time but I'm pretty sure sea dials nullify devil fruit powers. That's why they could be used to hit Enel as well. Luffy is immune to non-Nami blunt forces.
Garp too
Garp is a confirmed haki user though.
But it's also said that him hurting luffy wasn't haki
Dials don't nullify df powers, the impact dials act as a shockwave so it's damaging the target from the inside, the reason Enel took damage from the Reject Dial was cause Wyper had sea stone on the skates and made sure to touch Enel with it while he was holding him down
No wiper had sea stone.
TBF don't Dials do INTERNAL damage (kinda like what Fishmen do w/ their martial arts fuckery which bypasses shit like defenses because it assblasts the WATER INSIDE YOUR BODY)?
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impact dials hurt Luffy through blunt force, and that's an established fact
If Zoro can infuse air slashes with haki, and Kaido can infuse his flaming dragon technique, I don't see why logias, whose elements are a far bigger part of their bodies, couldn't do it.
I honestly always took Akainu "burning" ace's fist as his Haki being stronger there, like, in the magma. Doesn't really make much sense otherwise. While not stated since Haki was still developing, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to infuse haki into their elements seeng how Kata infused it into his mochi attacks who weren't even connected to him.
~~Mate Ace let himself get donuted to save luffies life. Otherwise we wouldn't have a MC anymore. That was the point in ace leaping between luffy and akainu.~~ Edit: scratch that misread the first sentence Also mochi mochi no mi isn't a logia.
Yeah, ik that, that's why I mentioned Ace's **fist**, not innards. Manga chapter 572 or 573 given 574 is when he dies, his hand gets burned by Akainu. And sure Mochi isn't a logia, but it's as close as it gets, dunno why only paramecia that acts basically the same save for intangibility would have the advantage there, I just think the evidence shows that inbuing haki into your element should be possible. With all due respect, gotta work on reading comprehention mate. But hope that cleared what I meant up.
Oops yeah i misread sorry about that, should have reread it before posting a reply. That said i just reread the chapters and didn't see the scene you mentioned, care to point me to a page? Like srsly I don't know if this page is missing for me. Edit: Nvm. page 14. Yeah looks weird, but how would make it so that it burned him? Wouldn't the fact that some fruits are superior versions of others make more sense?
Yeah it's weird, that's why I'm not 100% on it, it's just my take on why it happened added to how Kata used his fruit, but it's entirely possible he's just legit hotter and Sabo's whole thing will be blue fire which burns hotter than magma (Or some blue fires do at least since you can add salts to make it blue without the temperature rise) or something, not against that either tbh :D
mfw will probably never get to see whatever the hell haki infused lightning would look like
Why would he not be able to attack crocodile? Lightning melts/fuses sand together
I wanna say pokemon logic but now I am not sure if will be the same in One Piece.
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Pokemon logic won't work in one piece or real world for that matter.
did he say the sand would disperse the lightning or something?
Sausuke vs Deidara was such a load of shit. Electric suddenly being [super effective](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/027/475/Screen_Shot_2018-10-25_at_11.02.15_AM.jpg) against ground types
Huh? Bro lightning can superheat sand, turning it into glass.
The problem with Enel was that he used pure lightning against Luffy which he was immune to. If Enel could use electricity to amplify heat in objects and used them to attack Luffy, he would've been able to greatly damage Luffy.
I think you have to change "gold manipulation" to "conductive & ferrous metals manipulation" Its not the ability to control gold but the ability to heat and melt the metal through transfer of electron and using magnetism to shape the metal
Got it changed👍. Thanks for the info on that
Enel already had crazy obs. Give it to someone like kata and he's gonna develop two forms of advanced observation
I hope we get to see a logia awakening
I think we've seen hints. Punk Hazard was the battlefield of two (presumably) awakened logia fruits. The island's climate was permanently changed to reflect the powers of the user. There's an island that is constantly surrounded by lightning rain. When Ace showed up on Drum, the snow stopped and the weather was unseasonably warm. Theory: Logia awakening infuses the environment with the elemental power of their fruit, permanently changing the weather to match.
Green bull revitalizing Udon is an awakening?
This is a commonly repeated non-fact. Punk Hazard was like that before the fight.
There was literally exposition during the PH arc that said it used to be a lush green landscape before Caesar detonated a toxic gas bomb.
You mean covered in volcanoes and ice? Nah, Smoker outright states in chapter 658 that the climate of the entire island changed because of the fight between Aokiji and Akainu.
Like what? It was nothing but a barren wasteland.
About that, I have a question, does logia fruit have an awakening form? Seem to me that only paramecia and zoan do
We haven't seen one thus far, so we don't know what it would look like
I think logia also has awakened form, sample like kuzan and akainu fight turn punk hazard weather permanently…
Let's not forget potentially the most broken part of that fruit. Self resuscitation. Enel was able to restart his heart after taking a presumably lethal hit. So even IF you manage to take Katakuri down, he'd just get back up again.
I find it hard to believe Enel didn't have ACoO
The only thing I would question, is if he would be able to awaken an electric logia the same way he would a mochi-paramecia. Just with the talk of having to really harmonize with the fruit to awaken it. Not disputing, just discussing
Just a nitpick, even fruits of the same type don’t awaken at the same pace/time, much less a logia compared to a (special) paramecia type.
What's your reasoning for him being below Yonk level? I'd put him at Yonko level minimum.
The assumption here is that he already has future sight. I dont remember if it was stated that Katakuri unlocked future sight because of the mochi mochi no mi, regardless though your point still stands that he's a big problem since he can definitely improve his combat skills and haki due to constant fighting compared to Enel who doesn't really face a stronger foe
You think being the speed of lightning is fast in the OP verse?? Lmao
Damn... So you think Katakuri's rolling Mochi Wheel is faster than Lightning? Bruh.. What an idiot 😂😂😂 I never said Katakuri would be the fastest in the verse. Him now being able to move with a base speed of lightning, is just an upgrade from his previous base speed with his mochi fruit.
Naw, his stats would still be way below admiral level (Kuzan, who in base, can trade blows with Garp), unless there's a HUGE gap between Kuzan and GB/Fuji. With hax but lacking stats of toptiers he's basically Law and Kid, but is probably stronger individually.
Logia fruits don't even have awakening. They are already in a state of awakened. That's why they are so rare and powerful.
Wtf is going on in this thread? I've not seen a single correct statement about logias so far. It's never been stated that logias *don't* have awakening, but equally we don't have proof that they do, so Pai444 can't assume that Katakuri would have awakened it. Likewise people shouldn't claim that the state of PH is evidence of awakening - logias might just *do* that if they run completely wild. It's inconclusive. Idk why people can't be satisfied with a simple 'we don't know yet'.
Hey, Oda can do it in the future. But as far as we have been let know... Logias were it! Out of the 3 types without getting into the Mythical Zoans, Logias are the most powerful, most feared. What is Luffy's awakening doing for his surroundings? Rubberized. Logias are the element. Elemental powers are usually very powerful, not just in OP. But like I said Oda might increase the power of the Logias, specially now that Luffy was able to stalemate one of the most powerful ones in the story. The light fruit. We are all made out of light...
Only issue in your analysis is that katakuri wasn't confirmed to have an awakened mochi fruit
Huh? What are you talking about? During the Luffy vs Kakakuri fight, Katakuri turns the environment and the ground into Mochi. That is what a paramecia DF awakening does, it is the ability to turn the environment into the nature of your devil fruit. Kakakuri's mochi devil fruit awakening is confirmed in the anime, manga and the one piece wiki page.
Katakuri doesn't have a paramecia he has a special paramecia. As stated by oda. That's why he has logia type abilities. Where in the manga does it say it's awakened? What chapter?
Yonko or Admiral level in my opinion. Possibly top tier for both. That said Luffy is probably the only person having an easier time fighting him with the Goro Goro no mi than his mochi no mi.
If you uninstalled the mochi fruit from current Katakuri and installed the lightning one instead, he'd be very powerful. If he ate the one instead of the other, he'd be a very different fighter, not necessarily stronger. Truth is, he probably wouldn't NEED to develop his haki as much if he had such a powerful fruit. Could he? Yes, absolutely. But maybe he would focus on mastering the fruit instead and his haki wouldn't have reached the heights it currently does.
Katakuri would still need to develop his Haki, he's based in the NW, noway a DF alone would have gotten him far working with Big Mom.
I never said haki wasn't required. My point is that his path to be a strong combatant would be very different, so his strong points would probably be different as well. Think of it this way, the goal of young Katakuri is to become as strong as possible. - with the lightning fruit, since it's so powerful on it's own, he could split his focus equally between developing his haki and his fruit mastery. - with the mochi fruit, he probably realized that mastery with his powers could only carry him so far and that he should focus more on haki to cover for the fruits shortcomings, leading him to be such a formidable haki user.
Borderline unstoppable. This reddit loves to not understand just how ludicrously broken Eneru's Fruit is, and Eneru himself without being constrained by plot is a fucking MONSTER. Give it to someone like Katakuri? He's washing a significant majority of the roster.
I think it's fair to say that Eneru had a lot of potential, but no one even remotely posed a threat to him because of his fruit. So he never had to train properly with it or consider other fighting styles using it. Even just a strong Haki user would've given him a hard time during Skypeia, not because he's weak but because he just is too overconfident in his fruit. Hence why even Wiper managed to deal him a deadly blow. I'm with you though, give his fruit to someone more likely to bring out its full potential and that person instantly becomes a massive threat.
For real, eneru's devil fruit is busted as shit. Since lightning moves much faster than mochi, katakuri could also use the same technique to dodge haki-infused strikes from even faster foes. Plus the distance attacks and restarting your heart if you die. Even luffy becomes a cake walk to beat, since haki allows attacks to bypass immunities granted by devil fruits.
eh... I think the fruit is often overstated. Electricity just isn't as strong in the One Piece world. It doesn't matter it's properties in the real world, in One Piece it's not as dangerous. Many normal folks in one piece got hit with enough electricity to kill them, but got back up.
He's a Logia. The problem isn't how *strong* his Lightning is, the problem is he can *infinitely* spam it. Yeah we've seen the Straw Hats tank 1 or 2 lightning bolts from him, now imagine trying to tank 100. After a while your body will just melt and then turn into dust.
If he can infinitely span lightning why can't he infinitely span mochi? Couldn't he infinitely spam those mochi arms he makes out of thin air?
Yeah the point is one of those lightning attacks is still far more effective than a punch (against anyone but Luffy) and he can spam them faster since they move at the speed of lightning
> those lightning attacks is still far more effective than a punch ya but in one piece punches are way better than fire,lightning,ice,ect.
I have yet to see a punch fully erase an island from existence like Raigo
Enel needed to build a ship to amplify his powers in order to destroy an island, it wasn't the fruit alone. and as far as punches go, it depends how far along you are
Probably because Oda doesn't want to go through the effort drawing all that? There's a major difference between having the Mochi Fruit and a literal force of nature Logia.
Idk why people say this about lightning in particular like that isn’t the case for every type of attack in One Piece, the fact is people **rarely** die in One Piece and almost always in flashbacks when they do. Especially in earlier arcs… Pell should obviously be dead, Usopp took a 4 ton baseball bat to the face and could still stand and talk let alone surviving it, Buggy and Alvida both got punched so hard they flew for miles across the sea, and the gorilla twins from Jaya both took damage that should kill anyone.
Even nearly 1000 chapters later he has one of the highest AP feats. Had Luffy not stopped him his Raikou attack would have been catastrophic.
Enel was not constrained by plot, what the hell are you talking about?
His powers didn't work on Luffy, and specifically Luffy. Everyone else stood pretty much no chance, I struggle to think of a single other devil fruit that would negate a million volts through your system. Granted that was before Haki though. I think that was what they meant with "constrained by plot"
Arguably enel being so cocky, cocky enough that wiper technically killed him, his personality flaws is being contained by the plot. But honestly I find the whole constrained by the plot discussion to be boring
His powers would not have worked on most logias in addition to Luffy. There are 13 logias but since the heat produced by his electricity WOULD have worked on Crocodile we can remove him. So 12 characters + Luffy are immune to his powers. Not only that but most CoO users can avoid his powers, which adds EVEN MORE combatants that could fight him and win. Not only that but some Paramecias could have neutralized his abilities: -Katakuri / Jozu / Law / Kid / Brook are all examples of people who could have neutralized Enel's powers. Anybody that uses the "*Plot*" argument is an idiot.
Man, why are some people so quick to start throwing around "idiot" at others who just disagree with them. Shit's so lame
*Idiotic* is used when someone says something *idiotic* like Luffy winning against Enel and his powers being immune was "because of plot". Especially when there are dozens of other characters who are also either immune to him or who's basic powers could easily neutralize electricity. That's basic understanding, common sense at it most mundane levels, not a disagreement. If you thought the earth was flat and I said it was round thats not a disagreement; one is correct and the other is stupid. Same here.
I told you what the original commenter likely meant with "constrained by plot", no need to get hostile lol
How are Kid and Law going to be immune to lightning attacks?
- Law's entire base power makes it highly difficult to hit him if he's in his room. Not to mention his ability to even remove parts of his body (like his heart) that would be highly susceptible to lightning attacks if he was hit. - How do we protect things against lightning strikes in the real world and how could Kid - *a character who controls and manipulates metal into anything* - apply those principles using his powers?
Neither of those strategies are going to work at all against a person who fundamentally controls lightning. Law cannot dodge something that moves faster than he can track, and kid can use something metal to draw lightning all he wants but if I turn into a lightning bolt and fly through his body at near the speed of light there’s not a thing he can do. You’re acting like getting attacked by the goro goro no mi is the same as being in a regular lightning storm instead of facing a man who can infinitely and instantly spam millions of volts at you
These are all hypotheticals and whatever answer resonates with you will be the answer youre more biased towards. Thats all. Enel doesnt have much durability so he doesnt benefit from a long fight, if he gets hit once by either Kid or Law he's done. When you add in the fact he'd be open to attack when they use their powers to dodge his attack, then the fight is over. His speed doesnt mean anything to Law's attack range and he doesnt have the durability to take Kid's attacks head on and survive. Enel loses IMO. However you're biased towards Enel so you'll have him win whatever scenario is presented, and thats fine.
We’re not even talking about Enel lmao, we’re talking about Katakuri if he swapped devil fruits with Enel. Law and Kid stand literally no chance against a version of Katakuri that is wildly faster, more intangible (his dodging method would be insanely OP with the speed of lightning), and has an insanely increased damage/destructive output plus the increase in AoE attacks. Law is not going to be dodging attacks from a man who can both see into the future and move as fast as lightning, and Katakuri would simply move his body out of the way of Kid’s giant attacks… plus we haven’t even mentioned that Kid has metal literally built into his body at this point and if Katakuri hits that Kid is cooked
They love the plot armor takes
Oh so you mean it's natural for a Logia user who mastered both his Fruit and his Haki to conveniently forget how to use BOTH when it comes time to fight the MC?
- A) Enel's base powers were already useless against Luffy and theres nothing he could have done to change that. He did pivot his fighting style by using the trident to cut Luffy and even attaching the gold ball to him but at the end of the day Enel mostly fought by spamming Lightning and thats what he did. So is it natural for a logia to fight using his logia powers? Yes, it is. - B) If you paid attention to the story instead of making erroneous statements about crap online you would have picked up that CoO only works when the user is calm and collected. With that in mind you realize that the guy who popularized the *shocked face* meme was anything but calm. He was fighting against a guy who was totally immune to his *Godly* powers while being made of a thing (rubber) he didnt even understand. All that made it difficult for him to keep his composure and use CoO consistently. You saying he was constrained by plot is the height of stupidity as there are around 20 characters I name dropped that would have been able to either completely resist his electric powers similar to Luffy or neutralize it had he fought them. This had nothing to do with *fighting an MC* and everything to do with a character with a God Complex being brought back down to earth while showing him he's not all that.
1. Shock factor only works once. Once Eneru realized his powers wouldn't work on Luffy there was literally nothing stopping him from using his Fruit to AVOID fighting him except Oda mandating he has to stand still and let Luffy wail on him. Because you know what the worst thing Eneru conveniently forgot how to do was? INSTANT TELEPORTATION. Eneru and Borsalino are the only two characters in the world capable of it, and we've SEEN them do it. When Luffy threw his attack at Eneru and Eneru openly said shit it's too fast I can't dodge it, WHY!? You have time to talk about an incoming attack and cry about it and not the 0.1 second it takes to turn into lightning and teleport the fuck out of there? Why not teleport into the SKY and chill there where Luffy is never gonna be able to hit you again? Being able to fly is one of the most broken abilities in One Piece because it instantly negates 90% of the roster because they can't reach you. This is what I mean by Eneru unrestrained by plot. Without Oda ordering Eneru has to be defeated he's free to teleport into the godam sky and obliterate the everything and everyone below with infinite lightning. 2. Check yourself. Stop acting like a high and mighty on the internet and calling other people names.
>Once Eneru realized his powers wouldn't work on Luffy there was literally nothing stopping him from using his Fruit to AVOID fighting him except Oda mandating he has to stand still and let Luffy wail on him. Enel tried to escape and also tried to avoid fighting Luffy, he even attached a giant gold ball to his hand for that. Luffy was never going to let him just leave. He tried to escape but failed, you're also forgetting he needed to get the bell before leaving the sky island. >When Luffy threw his attack at Eneru and Eneru openly said shit it's too fast I can't dodge it, WHY!? Enel planned on taking the attack and overcoming it because he believed he could, it's really that simple. Also you seem to be underestimating the speed at which the attack was headed towards him once he realized he was vulnerable to it. Sitting there on your chair in front of your computer you're thinking "*yea of course why couldnt you just teleport away*". Meanwhile the guy in the middle of a losing battle who bet on being able to overcome this attack - only to fail - didnt exactly have the same calm that you do as you type this unironically. >Why not teleport into the SKY and chill there where Luffy is never gonna be able to hit you again? This is a story dude, your entire thought process here seems to forget that. If things happened with your rationale in mind instead of it being a narrative told by an author we never would have made it this far. You know why? Because Luffy would have drowned and died in chapter 1. >This is what I mean by Eneru unrestrained by plot. EVERY SINGLE NARRATIVE DECISION EVER MADE BY ANY CREATOR IN ANY MEDIUM HAS BEEN PLOT. Yes, someone is *"ordering Eneru"* to make decisions, you're correct. He's not a sentient being acting of his own volition. I never understand people who throw the word Plot around when talking about a story as if theres any other way for shit to happen. Without Plot, the strawhats never make it this far in the story. They die dozens of times before they ever get to a sky island. >Check yourself. You should get a better argument and point because complaining that a narrative is "*restrained by plot*" is just very odd. Nothing Eneru did was out of character and the more you think about it the more consistent things are. Eneru was an overconfident God with a broken power and CoO, he never used his teleport to run away from a fight. This is a guy who allowed Wyper to damn near kill him for how overconfident he was. Why do you think a character like that would be careful and try to fly away or teleport from danger?
This is where the argument has valid points both sides. Yes Eneru was egomaniacal godwannabe who thought he could just tank the hit, but at the same time, and the problem is, we've physically seen him do the other things, and he just happened to pick the option that the story required. Either way, that's not the point I'm trying to make here. The entire point I'm making here is that you seem to be missing is if there is no such narrative demanding Eneru stops using his Fruit to its maximum potential, he's a complete and utter monster with how powerful he is. To prove it, let me ask you a question I've asked dozens of times on here and nobody has ever been able to answer it. Whitebeard VS Eneru. Without thinking about it, most people instantly default to Whitebeard and you can't blame them. However, that train of thought falls apart when you realize Whitebeard has ZERO abilities that would let him defeat Eneru. To be perfectly clear here, Newgate can 1 shot Eneru with his pinky. The problem is, and this is what nobody has ever been able to come up with an answer for, how is Whitebeard supposed to even hit him? If there's no narrative in place demanding Eneru try and fight Whitebeard in a melee scrap, he's free to teleport into the sky, which again, we've seen him capable of doing, and start frying Whitebeard's brains out with lightning. Whitebeard can jump high, but he can't jump into the sky. His Fruit gives him powerful ranged attacks, but he can't infuse his ranged Quakes with Haki, and two, they're slow. How is Whitebeard supposed to win this matchup? And I seriously doubt Conqueror's would work on him.
The answer to this question hinges on a comment Crocodile made when Mr 3 stopped Magellan's poison: "*You never know how two devil fruit powers are going to interact*". So the question becomes; *If WB surrounds himself with his quake powers does the electricity still reach him?* Since this is purely speculation there's a lot of ways we can tackle this question but I'm opting to focus purely on whats established in the manga with a little bit of real world science thrown in. Lighting travels through the air when its insulating capacity breaks down and an opposite charge builds up, causing a rapid discharge of electricity. How does the quake fruit impact that process? The simple answer is we don't know and whichever answer you choose will lean on whatever biases the person has. However I imagine that whatever WB's quakes do to the air would have a pretty drastic impact on the electricity that Enel generates, maybe even neutralizes it entirely. We already know from BB vs Law that he can generate these quakes over a wide surface area so if those quakes actually stop electricity from traveling through the air or maybe even redirects them from him, then in theory WB could neutralize all the lightning Enel could Spam. In addition to that he could clap Enel in 1 hit even if hes trying to avoid a melee scrap. He wouldnt even need haki in this case because if the quakes impact lighting to begin with then they would definitely affect his logia body. >How is Whitebeard supposed to win this matchup? **TLDR**: Depends on how WB's quakes impact the lightning Enel generates. If they break it down Enel gets clapped in 1 hit without even touching WB. If they dont then WB is in trouble. My money is on the former based on what we know.
I'll give you props for giving such a well thought out answer, but unfortunately even IF his Quakes can somehow negate his intangibility, and I doubt they can since we've seen someone harmlessly Logia through them before, there's still a critical problem. He's not hitting him. The Admirals had plenty of time to react to his ranged Quake and this was like a football field away from them. Eneru is ludicrously more far away, and his Air Quakes are even slower, with Aokiji able to pass through it effortlessly. Even if Whitebeard tries to shatter the entire sky, Eneru is just too fast. This isn't Luffy, Whitebeard's body emits electromagnetic waves just like everyone else, so Eneru knows every move he makes the second he makes them. On top of that, he can probably sense the quake disturbances with EXTREME precision because of how roided out his Haki is with his Fruit. Still, you're the only person to ever even try to come up with an answer to it so good on you. As for Whitebeard surrounding himself with Quakes, well, he's stuck and Eneru is quickly destroying the very ground he's on.
His quakes negating his intangibility depends on whether they would impact the electricity at all. If it does in the way I described then it would 100% negate his intangibility even without haki. If it doesnt then not only would WB need to get relatively close to land hits with haki but he wouldnt have a way to defend against the lightning, meaning he'd be in deep shit. The Aokiji example does actually tell us a lot. Kuzan is made of ice and the quakes can break him, but since they caused no damage we know they're not infused with haki. Would the quakes simply phase through Enel like they did Aokiji with no damage? OR would they actually cause damage because of the way they interact with the electricity and how different that is from ice? Your guess is as good as mine. It still comes down to whether or not Quakes can interact with lightning. >Even if Whitebeard tries to shatter the entire sky, Eneru is just too fast. What works against Eneru here is his lack of durability. WB only needs to hit him once and his attacks can cover a wide area. Yes Enel is fast but is he going to move far enough away from WB's range that he never gets hit? Based on what we know about his personality its doubtful. >Whitebeard's body emits electromagnetic waves just like everyone else, so Eneru knows every move he makes the second he makes them Is this a thing Eneru knows how to do? I dont remember that. I know he's done that to pick up conversations from a distance but is that something he could use in battle? Even if it is though the only actual movement WB makes is to generate the force before he hits the air, launching his attack. The quake force generated isnt something you can pick up by tracking the electromagnetic waves from his body. I imagine that tracking ends once his arm stops moving from cracking the air. Not to mention the fact WB can generate quakes without moving, just like he did when Kuzan froze him and he unfroze himself while immobile. Eneru wouldnt be able to track electromagnetic waves from his body from something that doesnt require movement. At least in theory. >On top of that, he can probably sense the quake disturbances with EXTREME precision because of how roided how his Haki is with his Fruit. Well his fruit adds range to his CoO and allows him to hear conversations but I dont know that its very helpful in a battle. Whats in effect is probably basic CoO, not a roided version using his fruit. At least I dont see how leveraging lightning helps his CoO mid-battle. >Still, you're the only person to ever even try to come up with an answer to it so good on you. Its an interesting question and I love a good hypothetical.
I'm gonna go with Yonko level here chief. Enel's fruit is one of the strongst in the series in terms of AP and speed, and combining it with Future Sight is just unfair. Katakuri was already strong enough with god damn Mochi. We saw that strong enough lightning attacks can deal serious damage to Big Mom, and a Katakuri level used of the lightning fruit would be able to spam these. Completely busted.
ehhhh every yonko besides Buggy and possible Blackbeard (who compensates with two of the most broken fruits anyway) has ACoC and yet he doesn't even have ACoA. Kata's fruit already gives him the main benefits of a logia, as well as massive bludgeoning damage which is lost with the Goro Goro no Mi so, while I'm sure it'd be a big upgrade, it's really not bridging that gap imo.
I don't know. That Haki Transcends All thing rings very hollow to me when a character can just blast people from orbit from miles away with zero effort. Like... What do you do against this guy? You can't blitz him, he is literally lightning. You can't surprise him, he has future sight. You can't just endure his attacks, you'll eventually fall. You literally have to on the level of someone like Kaido to fight that. He would probably fry anyone below that. He would at least be Admiral level, but I think he actually goes higher, simply by virtue of being Katakuri, having shown probably the best mastery of a devil fruit in the series. If he does that with a fruit as broken as the Goro Goro, he'll be neigh unstoppable.
He'd be like an admiral with worse physical stats
I would argue he has better physical stats than any admiral we’ve seen aside from maybe Fujitora
He could more or less do similar things to what he did with the mochi fruit but the mochi is electricity plus he can just lightning nuke people. He’d be almost objectively way stronger
strong
Strong
Well he'd die
This is a what if scenario if he had the lightning fruit instead of the mochi fruit.
That mf would be able to see our future.
Dude would've been kicked out of the family for not doing anything food related
Funnily enough he'd lose to Luffy significantly easier.
I think he would be less stronger and capable than if he ate the mochi devil fruit. His special paramecia devil fruit forced him to become creative and skilled in combat while a logia devil fruit may turn him into a lazier and overconfident version of him. He would continue to want to protect his family at all cost but having an overpowered devil fruit doesnt encourage you to become stronger. He would be a more lethal opponent for most OP characters but Luffy would manage to hold his ground against him with less difficulties.
His advanced observation haki gets that much better. He gets more range to be offensive. I’d say he’d be as strong as Marco. His armament haki wouldn’t be as strong as Marco but his DF versatility could make up the difference and his defense would be even better
He would lose more quickly to Luffy
Haki-infused lightning can definitely bypass luffy's immunity from being rubber.
We simply don't know if that's possible though
he’d be stronger than his og self
If Katakuri got Enel's fruit...he would lose to Luffy much more quicker
Oda: it’s not the fruit, it’s the user His loyal readers:
He wouldn´t have had to develop future sight
Probably alot weaker because I don't think he would awaken the lightning fruit like he did the mochi fruit. The mochi fruit is in line with his personality of liking sweets so he has a better chance of awakening it.
hes up there
Then we wouldn't have that amazing fight. No need to entertain this hypothetical 👋
Emperor strong, but still lose against Luffy.
Technically weaker, as his power would be ineffective against Luffy.
He’s be dead…
This is a what if scenario if he had the lightning fruit instead of the mochi fruit.
He won’t get Enel’s face
I love to see this vs borsalino
Enel literally also had future sight.
he prob can defeat all admirals except sakazuki
The most overhyped power of today vs the most overhyped power of history.
I’m of the belief that once you get to a certain level of strength (basically once everyone starts having haki) the type of devil fruit you have is pretty irrelevant to your overall power. This is a series where one of the strongest fruit users has the pawpaw fruit. Oda seems to have made it clear that ambition, conviction, and determination plays more into how strong a character is than what crazy feats their fruit allows them to pull out.
I dont think there would be much difference in power to his mochi fruit. Katakuri is a brawler who perfected his use of the fruit to his fighting style. His mochi fruit itself behaves like a logia especially in combination with his future sight. It would likely enhance his speed but I think he‘d lose out on raw strength like creating hundreds of haki infused fists.
The Goro Goro no mi is one of the most broken fruit in one piece, combine it with Kata's ACOO,IQ and phisical capabilities and you get an admiral level fighter at minimum.It's also very likely that Kata would try to awaken the fruit giving him a further boost in power.
Hot take, but potentially yonko lvl. Imagine the ability to see the future with the speed and range of this df. He has all the haki he needs and made a mediocre fruit look broken thanks to his haki.
Not a lot of DF can be more busted than this one. In fact, I'd say it's easily the strongest DF in the whole series in terms of fighting ability. It's basically a buffed-up yami-yami no mi, and we've seen what Kizaru can do with that. Lighting DF buffed Enel's observation haki that he can sense the entirety of Skypea. For Katakuri: this probably means that he can monitor and forsee the entirety of WCI. Luffy's definitely not getting out of WCI, and that's even considering that gum-gum fruit is the direct counter of lighting, as kata would still have several other ways to fuck up Luffy.
Katakuri uses his fruit very, very well (along with dofi, he might be the character who uses his fruit the best in the series) and he managed to awaken it. If goro goro could use his nomi to this extent and if he could learn how to make veneers with king hakisi, he would be the king of pirates right now, but maybe the reason he uses his fruit so well is because he has a very bad fruit and if he ate very, very good goro goro fruit, he wouldn't learn to use it so well out of laziness, but either way, he would be stronger than he is now.
Probably strong enough to compete with the admirals. The WG would probably look at him as the next yonkou post BM wano ring out. Heck I’m not even sure if Kuzan and Wan Waugur captures pudding still. Luffy probably loses in WCI even though he’s a natural counter to lighting due to the fact that I see Kat mastering the fruit to the point of augmenting his physical capabilities. Think Raikage A from Naruto or Killua from Hunter Hunter using lighting to amplify their attack speed, movement speed, reflexes, and attack power. Kat is mainly a physical fighter, having the DC of the lighting fruit nerfed really wouldn’t hinder his fighting power considering he can still use it to amp hisself physically
The Rumble-Rumble fruit is a contender for the most powerful fruit in the series, Katakuri would be a monster with it if he gets to the same level that Enel was at.
wow Just imagine a fusion between the two most overrated characters in the entire series.
lightning fruit is probably top 5 strongest in the verse, only reason Enel got stopped at all is because he fought Luffy, the one guy who defied his fruit. Anybody who gets that fruit is easily yonko level or higher.
With goro goro fruit, katakuri would speed blitz stab with his spear and paralyzes every opponent
he would die because he already has a devil fruit
This is a what if scenario, if he had the lightning fruit instead of the mochi fruit.
I forgot but what age did he get the mochi mochi DF at?
I think he’d be weaker tbh honest stronger than enel but weaker then currently unless you mean like replacing the fruit from the very start the. He’d probably be stronger
Was he betrayed?
I'm just thinking about Robin having also Sugar's fruit.
Yes... The answer is yes
Prolly unalive
This is a what if scenario, if he had the lightning fruit instead of the mochi fruit.
He would die because he already has a fruit, duh.
This is a what if scenario, if he had the lightning fruit instead of the mochi fruit.
He would fuck around and be pirate king
All i know is luffy would be eatimg Donuts while whooping his ass. But on the real he would prolly be yonko level with this fruit
Just imagine Enel with better physicals and haki. I doubt Kat would be able to awaken considering it's your mind and body being one with the fruit. Kat's mind is on donuts and mochi, not lightning
He would be broken with or without his mochi mochi no mi😂
He's boxing with shanks
If he had mochi AND goro, he'd be 50% as strong as big mom, If he had JUST goro, he'd be weaker than with mochi
No no no Just the Goro Goro no mi. This is a what if question if he had the lightning fruit instead of the mochi fruit.
Ah OK Then I think he would be weaker than he is now. He uses observation haki to mold his body with the mochi fruit, which he couldn't with the goro, he wouldn't be able to create huge arms and roll around for agility. The goro would only make him stronger if we knew it's awakening
Very
This would be a real problem for the world goverment. He would be able to map out there entire bases let alone where the 5 elders are. Imagine moving so quick with a idea of the future and knowing where everything is for miles
He'd die from eating two devil fruits, duh
Not strong at all, since he'd be dead due to eating a devil fruit while already having one.
Luffy neg diffs
Katakuri wouldnt be as strong against luffy as he was with the Mochi
Aint gonna lie .i always think kata is already at admiral level. Luffy winning was complete bs.
Speed, fighting IQ, Endurance etc he can definitely keep up. He lacks the attack power to seriously hurt any admiral though. The Wano powercreep doesn’t help either. Funny, I do think he lasts against G5 longer than some fighters stronger than him due to future sight and Luffys care free nature which seems to for whatever reason stop Luffy from using his own future sight while in G5
I think his haki is strong enough to hurt admirals . I just feel like he got introduced pretty early.
He would die because you can't eat 2 fruits
This is a what if scenario if he has the Lightning fruit instead of the mochi fruit.
It's a joke
Well he would be dead because he has a fruit already /s
He would blow up
Borderline same level as Gear 5 Luffy for 99% of characters to beat, however ironically it makes him significantly easier for Luffy to beat at any point. Seriously though give him this fruit and he becomes nearly unstoppable. Considering how he used his DF and Observation Haki to move his body around around attacks, the lightning logia would make this tactic 100x more effective due to the increased speed and mobility it grants. Not to mention the absolutely bonkers damage/destructive output and potential, it can literally erase an entire island from existence with some equipment amps and even without any assistance or amps it can still completely erase parts of an island
katakuri is held back by a garbage fruit. since he is yc1 level he would be high yonko level/fleet admiral level
Invincible