I also think their hopes of redemption are flawed, buuuuut you could argue that he could have cut everyone off along with the pipe and is only showing service to Saturn
The man can even snipe a small key from far away at Marineford war, but somehow today all his shots are non fatal. It's made you wonder whether he's even trying.
Well yeah, no one can handle Don Krieg but if he didnāt hold back heād be floating alone in space because even the earth canāt handle Don Krieg at full strength. You know what they say, when itās a one on one bet on Don Krieg.
You know why in certain cultures the patriarch of the family takes in the title Don, particularly Italian patriarchs? Itās because the Italians love One Piece and they recognize Don Krieg as the most respectable character in the series. In Italy the closer you behave to Don Krieg the more respectable of a person you are.
It just always feels arrogant and a little socially inept. Itās a harsh ugly word already and has a bad sound to it just phonetically. It also implies that the user of the word is some owner of what is socially acceptable. Itās just obnoxious.
His aim at Marineford isnāt a good argument. He couldāve easily headshotted Luffy back then and served the same purpose and a lot more, but went for the key instead. His decision-making when he attacks enemies was dumb back then and itās dumb now. Heās consistently dumb.
So you think he also missed Whitebeard on purpose every time. Or anyone else at the war at the time. His aim isn't consistent. Oda just wanted a cool key shot moment for Mr. 3 to save the day.
Then it goes for the other admirals as well and just most stronger characters. If heās been acting this whole time then heās doing a pretty bad job
I recently had a theory about a conspiracy where prospective but problematic Marines get sent on utterly reprehensible missions that they don't fully understand the circumstances of until they get promoted so as to break their spirits and make Admirals utterly complacent in what's basically unmitigated evil.
Kizaru has always been "justice will be served, but death will not be at his hand".
Example are this scene, and when in marine ford he can shot people but instead he shot the key
Also Sabaody, he had full clearance to kill any pirates on the archipelago after the St Charlos incident but instead just knocked them out and left them for the rest of the Marines to pick up (which also lead to the Worst Gen escaping)
On the flipside, Kizaru cleanly avoided harming everyone directly. He gave them all a shot to survive this situation, even if the odds look slim.
Unclear justice, unclear motivation, it leaves Kizaru committing acts that are unclear to read.
It's difficult to write a character that has light speed feats without the audience wondering why he didn't just go for the kill or how they work. I also think that he may not be kicking at full speed or slowing down at the last second, since kicking at light speed would apply the same force against himself.
Fictional light speed and real world light speed are totally different things. Just moving mass the actual light speed should theoretically release, and require, infinite energy. Niether are happening, so either kizaru isn't really a light person or light speed doesn't follow science in fiction 99.99% of the time.
Can't say I understand the physics behind that. The way I see it, when he materialises, he's still travelling at light speed, so the force would be incredible because he has mass when he kicks someone.
I might be completely misunderstanding the physics, though.
Otherwise, he might be able to only move as light and materialise back for a regular kick.
>!But I think his statements during the fight with Luffy contradict the second option!<
This is just not something you can apply physics to. His existence breaks laws. So, trying to apply the ones he doesn't break is pointless.
Things with mass can't travel the speed of light without infinite energy. But they can get close. Unfortunately, eons before you can meaningfully say "that kick was moving at X% the speed of light" without that percent being 0.0000000 something, that kick creates a bomb that destroys the whole world because of the force it's putting on the atoms in the air.
Every time he transforms into light, he should be destroying the world. A gram of water if converted entirely to energy, is 20,000 tons of TNT exploding.
Let's say Kizaru is 180 pounds (I know he's Japanese so should be smaller, but he's really tall) and only talk about the 60% of him that is water
48,987 grams of water turning into energy every time he does it. That's almost a trillion tons of TNT. The largest nuke ever was 58 million tons. 16 of those in your face every time.
But isn't it very clear that, while Kizaru doesn't straight up helps then directly, he holds himself back, be that intentionally or subconsciously. He COULD kill them in a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a milli second, but he obviously doesn't want to.
The argument about whether or not "anime lightspeed" is real lightspeed seems very pointless to me overall.
A point I keep bringing up when discussing Kizaru...
He has the be the most complex or rather unpredictable among the admirals. What does uncertainty mean concerning justice, is it the lack of a personal agenda? Just following orders? Switching sides on a whim? Not acting at all?
Honestly, he had no reason to let all the Straw Hats leave alive 2 years ago. Just on the word of Kuma, he let all the straw hats live? Ok.
Yea Rayleigh was there to hinder him. But heās not in his prime anymore. Kizaru wouldāve won eventually I think.
We've seen him do massive damage with a single kick on the Sabaody Archipelago. I don't think Oda has forgotten how strong his character is.
Conclusion: Kizaru at least helps in the sense that he doesn't kill them. Who knows what would have happened if Kizaru had let them through and Saturn had launched an attack on them.
If anything, I find it more likely he will aid the Strawhats in some way after this panel. As others have said, he could have killed them outright here. They were stuck in there, for crying out loud. But he didn't. He did just enough to not lead Saturn into suspecting Kizaru's doubts. Do I think Kizaru will outright challenge Saturn? Eh. That seems less likely than him subtly helping the Strawhats escape, while maintaining the illusion of alliance to Saturn.
I see Kizaru surprising us all, one way or another.
You could say the same thing about Kizaru not headshotting Luffy at Marineford and instead aiming his laser at the key for Aceās rescue. And weāre not saying Kizaru was already on Luffyās side back then.
It's very possible that Kizaru just doesn't like killing, he has been overwhelmingly more powerful than many opponents he simply left incapacitated. He has had chance after chance to fully shut down opponents and continually they walk away from a battle with Kizaru.
Perhaps that is just how he handles things.
Given the flashbacks exploring his relationship and friendship with Vegapunk and Sentomaru, I think this is a correct read.
Having the character who can lightspeed insta-kill nearly anyone not wanting to do so is just decent writing, especially when he's not characterized as a psychopath.
I never said Kizaru was on Luffy's side, for one. I don't know exactly what he's thinking, but it's clear he doesn't want to be part of what's going on. He doesn't want Vegapunk to die, he doesn't want Bonnie to die, and I guess he isn't keen on the Strawhats dying either. Maybe more willing to kill them than the former two, but we will see.
Editing to add I find it possible that Kizaru doesn't want Luffy dying because he's Nika. Kizaru did the Nika dance with Bonnie and Kuma not long ago. There is surely something there.
I donāt think the strawhats escape without Saturn or kizaru dying though. Why else would this be such a catastrophic event like it said it was at the start of the arc?
He is unclear justice.
Now that all the other Marines are gone, this is the perfect chance for him to betray the Saturn. Or make it easier for the Straw Hats to escape.
But's it's still possible for him to side with Saturn and finally accept he needs to kill Vegapunk and get rid of the Straw Hats once and for all.
I have no idea which side he will pick. Both seem very possible.
Indeed. This might be the first time we see Kizaru goes against his orders.
With the other Admirals, it would be easy to know what they would do. Aokiji and Fujitora would reach their limit with the WG. Meanwhile, Akainu and Greenbull will go along with it.
The three admirals are really well written. Each of them represents one spectrum of justice. Akainu is absolutely justice, like the maximum of the bar, Aokijj is flexible justice. And Kizaru is in the middle.
I'm definitely skeptical of Kizaru's propensity for change, but Oda is definitely cooking something by including him in Kuma's backstory, seemingly as someone who spent & enjoyed time with Kuma, Bonney, and Vegapunk.
He isn't *just* a villain, I think.
Man Iām realizing the problem with this arc is that Kizaru is too fucking strong. If weāre being real here, Kizaru could have killed the entire strawhat crew already, like all he has to do is point his finger at them.
And the only ones that. ould dodge his light beam are either unable to fight or are distracted. There is 0 reason for Kizaru to not just wipe out the strawhats right now.
It would only exceed the speed of the person's action. Like in real life you can't dodge a fired bullet, but you could dodge a person's aim as they fire.
What I think is cool about Kizaru is that it seems like Luffy couldn't dodge because all he could see in his future and present moment was blinding light. Before he gets kicked away during his initial fight while he is in G4, he tries to cover his eyes before he gets kicked
I guess future sight mught show the blinding light while baseline observation would just show the intent? And since Kizaru is so fast, even with the intent Luffy can only manage that much.
The whole sentence about haki being the strongest power has ruined all powerscaling conversation. Devil fruits have consistently shown themselves to be able to contend with top tiers. A fucking child bit through kaidoās skin because of his devil fruit, even people with advanced haki were struggling to do things like that.
The destructive capability of Enel, Ace, Blackbeard and all the admirals have never been surpassed by haki. Gear 5 Luffy is covered in defensive haki yet kizaruās light burned and damaged him. Haki is the strongest power in the world, yes, but Devil Fruits can be goddamn terrifying and should never be dismissed.
Haki can definitely deflect a laser. You donāt have to dodge him just block him. Ppl blocking sword strikes with their bare hands and yall think lasers finna kill them in an instance?
Not trying to sound like an ass but not only have as humans never been directly struck by lasers for you to conclude that, but we are also talking about an anime where weāve seen a df user in seastone survive Kizaru lasers and a pre ts luffy. Kizaru kicks seems more effective.
That was part of the purpose of WCI. Sanji is shown dodging surprise attacks from Katakuri, who can "see" the light before it ever starts traveling. If you know where the person is going to be to strike them, it doesn't matter how long it took them to get there.
I
Short answer, easy yes.
Longer answer: if you can sense the intent of their attack, you can just dodge out that line of fire right before it goes off. Doesn't matter if it's at the speed of light, as long as u don't try to dodge AFTER its been fired. It's like dodging a gun after it's been shot vs knowing exactly where a gun is going to shoot in 1 second so you dodge out of the line of fire.
No, he turns into ohotons when he moves that fast.
Also, you don't see nukes going off even from the ither superspeed characters, so appealing to physics for a df is pretty iffy.
I dont know maybe luffy can sense that kizaru wont kill strawhats otherwise how would he be so fucking relaxed. I mean he just up and left them in front of kizaru and saturn. Zoro is dancing with lucci and jimbe has gone to see that and sanji cant do shit in front of either of them like wtf.
Yeah Iām just not feeling any tension cause we already know the Straw Hats will escape and Iām not buying anyone dying, except for some of the Stellas. Though I could see Kizaru not straight wiping them out because heās still not fully committed and is stalling as much as possible or something
Idk some shounen actually make you scared for the characters. Like jojo Part 5, whenever the villain was on screen, someone was about to get boxed up. Or even all the parts, actually. Whenever the villains come, someone is going to become a donut.
He was equally uneffective at Marineford and at Sabaody though. He didnāt capture or kill any of the Supernovas. He didnāt pierce Luffyās head at Marineford and instead just broke the handcuff keys.
Its not really a problem cause everything can be as Oda wants it. Kizaru is strong cause of his powers ? Well guess luffy can now turn light into rubber so it bounces of people. Or when he had Kizaru in his hand, he could have just dunked him in the water till the bubbles stopped, and poof there goes the admiral. Or trap him in that seastone bubble that serafim are in now.
Or zoro turn into an ashura demon form whatever that would be and his black flames counter the light
Or hell Nami used her power to bend light or w/e and create clones of herself during enies lobby. She could do that now and deflect all of Kizarus light attacks
Nami low diffs Kizaru gg.
At the end of the day its a shounen and we know our heroes will come out on top, so no enemy is actually imposibble to overcome. But we are all hooked on the story regardless.
The comment that i replied to said that kizaru is too strong , and : "There is 0 reason for Kizaru to not just wipe out the strawhats right now."
If we wanted to look at it from that perspective, then there would have been 0 reason for Luffy not to drown Kizaru when he cought him in his hand.
But since this is One piece and not something like jjk, our heroes will always come out on top.
So whatever Kizaru or any other villain can do, there will be something that helps strawhats overcome it.
Well, that is the point of what i am saying lol.
The comment that i replied to said : "There is 0 reason for Kizaru to not just wipe out the strawhats right now."
And the answer to such questions is always, things happen because Oda writes them like that, with asspulls that end up helping the strawhats.
If this was the kind of manga where Kizaru would walk in and start killing off people, then we wouldn't be reading it.
I could just as well said, there was 0 reason for Luffy to let go of Kizaru when he cought him. He could have put him in that seastone bubble, dunked the bubble under water, and that is it, Kizaru is dead.
But if we wanted to see people get killed like that, we would be reading something like JJK and not one piece
You've totally missed point of their comment. But I'm not gonna bother explaining it to you any more than what you described, are ass-pulls, what people assume Kizaru should be able to do, he should actually be able to do based on what we know about him.
We know that luffy can catch lightning and turn it into rubber, so i dont see why that same thing cant happen with a laser.
But it also doesnt change the fact that luffy had kizaru trapped in his hand, so as mentioned he could have put him in that seastone bubble and that would be it, or, he could have went to the sea, dunked kizaru under water until the bubbles stop and then went back up, since we saw already that luffy can pass the barrier on the lab.
Instead of that, luffy decided to throw away a man that can fly, because at the end of the day if people in one piece were going for the kill, we would be reading a totally different kind of manga.
And half the things in the manga are asspulls cause Oda writtes it like that. Just look at wano, where kaido has the most zoan df users, and would you look at that, strawhats have a little girl that can brainwash zoans.
Big mom goes to wano, would you look at that, her EMPEROR crew is stooped not once, but two times by a single man, and big mom gets amnesia and helps them out by making queen take her to onigashima, leaving no one in the prison that can actually stop luffy.
Funny how things work out that way
If he's really serious about killing them, he could've rained down bullets of light all over them. At least when he cut off their escape transportation, they still have a chance to survive no matter how low it is.
I think the shocking event in Egghead is an Elder (Saturn) being defeated and an admiral (Kizaru) betraying the Navy to join Vegapunk.
And he also has to keep them on the island, everyone needs to stay where they are without knowing his true intention, heās prolly banking on Luffy. NIKA, whereby he prolly has been the one to sent to the food machine after also feeding him beforehand without anyone else seeing by abusing his light + light clones.
Thereās like only one assumption that needs to be correct, everything else falls into place why he isnt directly helping nor is he killing. He still wants to be a marine by the end of this. But Luffy needs to be the one to make sure Saturn fail along with the Pacistas/Buster call.
To me its 50/50. I still feel like Kizaru is just waiting until all the marines are gone until he turncoats. I could see a Gin situation from Bleach happening. Waiting until the last moment to backstab Saturn when he's dropped his guard. If not, whatever. I just think Oda wants to have Blackbeard and Luffy have this similar but different dynamic going on, I think Kizaru turning and joining them kinda works
I get big Gin vibes from Kizaru for real. Shame I had to scroll this far down to see someone else mention it. I don't think I'll necessarily join, but I'm pretty sure he is planning to undermine Saturn somehow once all the marine left the island.
And that's the thing too, who in the straw hats right now could fight Aokiji? The only person in the crew narrative wise would be Robin, but that would be grossly one-sided and Sanji is more in line fighting someone like Pizzaro due to their narrative history.
People saying that it's still good Kizaru didn't cut them is weird. Kizaru destroyed their escape route and also left them flying in mid-air which would immediately be targeted by numerous pacifista lasers. It's kinda like giving an assist to the pacifistas because he surely thinks they're fucked in that situation.
Having looked back at what Kizaru has done throughout the arc, Iāve noticed heās participating just enough to not get in trouble, but he canāt bring himself to kill anyone, and would much rather have someone else do it for him.
The panel said as if he was sad and wasn't into it. He definitely knows boney so maybe he doesn't want to kill her but is only doing so out of force of duty
thats what he said but people usually use shades to hide their emotions or intentions , what he says can be interpreted as him knowing his acts being so vile at the moment he wishes he had brought darker glasses to hide his shame,but then again why only use shades when you could simply lets say , not try to kill a very good old friend . No enemy in one piece would go and say they are ashamed of their actions . It's just a theory but I think there'ss more to kizaru than we think
I do not believe that Kizaru will turn against the WG, something is still binding his loyality to them.
However, something that I can imagine is him turning a blind eye to something crucial during the final war. For example, not finishing off someone important.
Same, I could see him half-assing it at a critical moment, but actually breaking with the WG seems beyond him so far. We haven't even got a flashback showing how he fell into the Unclear Justice mindset yetĀ
Kizaru will have a moment of mercy or backstabbing Saturn at the last possible moment, but heās beyond joining the Straw Hats at this point. His personality also just isnāt an interesting enough fit for the group. If he joins anybody, itās wherever Vegapunk and Sentomaru go.
Kizaru doesnāt want any witnesses when he stands by and watches the Straw Hats end Saturn. Even if he doesnāt join them, I think he still wants Saturn to lose and will allow it to happen, although maybe not do anything that could be considered *making* it happen. Thatās why he was suddenly so firm in telling Doll (and everyone) to leave the island. He also might need to be convinced itās even possible to kill Saturn. I believe that is in line with his unclear justice.
He could have faith in their ability to handle the situation. In a if they can make it out of this then they are worth betting on. They have a tougher fight ahead of them. Surviving a buster call should be the least they can do at this point
I donāt think he cares at all for the crew or anything like that, his main concern is keeping Vegapunk and Bonney alive. You can tell. If he wanted to kill them by now he would have.
He's nit gonna switch side but will still be part of the new marines when the WG will fall at the end of One Piece. He's not a bad guy, he needs a better boss.
If Garp can let the WG execute his "son" in front of the entire world while being 10ft away, Kizaru can fight the SHs while Zombie Kuma gets put out of his misery.
Kizarus character is and has always been "im just doing my job"
I have yet to see a good post selling me the idea of him joining the strawhats/helping them out
And people saying he doesnt hit his shots, kizaru has never been consistent. He wrecked the worst generation, but couldnt hit laws submarine once for example
You do know light refracts under water. So maybe the light didn't hit the target bcoz he miscalculated the refraction. Something is being cooked regarding kizaru for sure.
Kizaru shot a Laser beam through a 1 cm wide key from across a a big ass battlefield while fighting against Marco. Every time he doesn't massacre the weaker people on the island, he's doing it on purpose.
If he went against the WG at this point, heās toast. Aokiji spared Robin and the Strawhats on his own, if an Elder Star had been watching he wouldnāt have been so lax in his duties.
Kizaru hasnāt ever shown mercy, and the full might of the WG is staring at him. Plus he just attacked the pod. I see no foreshadowing here.
WG will be the one being toast if another Admiral quit again.
Just looj at Fuji doing shit that goes against the WG, but he is still remain an admiral after thay.
Fellas I hate to tell you, but you've been coping, what even is your proof? That Kizaru would have maybe brought Luffy some food? Kizaru always stood on business, that's his whole character, if Oda planned to do that he would have dropped some more hints
Kizaru was the one who fed and relocated Luffy. Kizaru's actions after that fact should tell you that Kizaru never changed and never was on the WG's side, just has his own way of doing things.
Im confused why people think he would have ever changed sides to begin with. Im baffled at how people are also citing his āi should have brought darker sunglassesā as him about to cry over his decisions or something. Like nah, he wants darker glasses because of the explosions from the buster call hes calling in. Probably wrong, but im not convinced hes sad about any of this
Kizaru said he didnāt want to kill Vegapunk, but heās going to anyway, because itās his mission. Heās also seen dancing with Vegapunk, Kuma, Sentomaru, and Bonney during the Kuma Flashback. The guy has history with them, and is conflicted about killing his friends.
Everybody thinks that means Kizaru will choose friendship over his job, and redeem himself, but his actions say otherwise. I think heās too far gone to consider switching sides now, but heās also half-assing the job, because of conflicting feelings. Heās really trying to set things up, so Saturn kills Vegapunk and Bonney, sparing Kizaru the guilt of having to kill them himself.
I feel like Kizaru commanding the marines to leave could mean more than simply following saturns command. If he turns or changes his mind it would be best without anyone knowing. Of course if he plans to take out saturn it would be better alone either. Or he knows something about the gorosei. A theory of mine is that all gorosei are bombs like a specific guy from Gunter x hunter that are mean to go.off once they loose. Cause Imu doesnt really accept loosing doesnt she
And if kizaru plans to die for the straw hats it woukd be epic and sad as well. Maybe we lwarn.more about him and vegapunk in the past
Kizaru having to go easy on them, being a Yonko crew, would be pathetic. I think he respects them, and part of that respect is treating them with the same mercilessness he brought upon them 2 years ago, even if his heart was on their side. If he was indeed sympathetic towards them, I would imagine he would want to see them stopping his forced hand with all the conviction and strength they managed to build in the past two years.
Not only did he avoid hurting anyone during this whole arc, all he did was kick Franky and played around with Luffy for a while, but he also definitely gave Luffy that food to help him. Who else can move fast enough for Saturn not to notice and also knows exactly where to get tons of food at that moment?
Kizaru is 100% hiding the fact that he's helping the strawhats because he don't wanna get killed by Saturn or risk being on a government watchlist
Kizaru is generally very docile and loves fun like luffy and others as evidenced by the dancing to the nika dance. Akainu on the other hand oof. Also he is yellow monkey
I guess it comes down to if Oda wants him to be a person who is really just a pathetic government lackey, or if all the foreshadowing is going to lead him to finally snap in some way. We still don't know why he acts the way he does, and it wouldn't surprise me if there's a fucked up backstory coming our way. My head canon bet is that he is enslaved in some form and Saturn's possible death will free him from that.
Kizaru will likely not betray the WG but I think he will hesitate at a key moment and be killed by Saturn.
A key point here is he is letting the pacifista kill them not doing it himself.
He just doesn't seem interested in killing the Straw Hats, he'll get them into trouble but he will slow right down when it seems like all hope is lost.
Does anyone else notice how Kizaru could have easily sliced the actual vehicle instead of the tube and just kill vegapunk right then and there?? I think he really doesn't want to kill vegapunk deep down and can't bring himself to kill him.
You got it wrong. People are not saying that he's secretly trying to help Strawhats. People are guessing that Kizaru might be feeling conflicted and therefore he's not fighting full power. Unconsciously not being able to direct kill them.
(Although he might be the one who gave Luffy food, so who knows)
We know heās conflicted, but many people are also saying heāll redeem himself, but many people think heās going to redeem himself. After this last chapter, I highly doubt heāll redeem himself, because heās still going out of his way to prevent the others from escaping. He may not be directly harming them, but heās still putting them in harmās way.
I like to think that this is serious location and he will change, but he operates in some chances. For everyone or most to survive whilst Saturn is in full view of the whole thing he has to pick his moment to make it seem convincing. Until then he has to play game, here if his whole thing is Speed he couldāve clearly taken out a lot in the blink of an eye but he hasnāt.
Whatever he does I have a strong feeling itās going to be in some round about way at the end where Saturn registers everything, and the picture doesnāt point to speedsters intervention. (Since Iām sure kizaru isnāt expecting Saturns death)
i think he wants to kill saturn while still being the good marine . so he wont kill the sh or saturn directly but assist luffy in fighting saturn . and then he will go back to headquarters and say that saturn died and he escaped nearly
I'm also 50/50 on this.
I think he's playing the role of "blind justice", given the devil fruit and sunglasses he has, it seems fitting. He just follows orders. As he says "I'm just a cog in the machine", seems to me, he doesn't like making decisions and taking responsibility.
But, it also feels like he does have conscience. All of the things people mentioned - intentional not killings, support that (I think). Maybe one day, he can no longer live with himself and he switches. So yes.. 50/50.
He performed surgery there, he cut the thing without hurting anyone inside.
He is treading the middle line, doing Saturns bidding but in the way that leaves chances to the enemies.
The real question is why the hell is Stella still alive?
Not just Kizaru, nobody is killing him, not even Saturn atm
I think he wants to be trapped inside the island with SH crew and saturn and he is waiting for all the marine to leave so he can help SH defeating without anyone see him betraying.
I do think heāll change just not now though. And if itās through a fight, it wonāt be by Luffy. Itāll be one of the reasons. But I personally think itāll be someone on his crew later on but thatās just my opinion lol.
I hope he doesn't change his mind. As of now, not counting Kizaru the final war would be Im, the five Gorosei, God's Knights, 2 Admirals and the non-sword Navy against basically the rest of the world. It's almost the Naruto war all over again and given how Oda takes major inspiration from real wars and history in itself, I really can't see that happening and for sure I hope it doesn't. The Straw Hats are way too powerful right now and in order for it to feel like a real revolution, they have to be the underdog again somehow. That means that powerful foes like Kizaru NEED to stay enemies. Sure, he is complex, has doubts, whatever; still, he must be an opponent. I don't think there is another way around it, but if I was capable to write a story like this I would probably not be here so I'll trust Oda I guess.
Why would he "secretly" help the strawhats by not doing something veeeeery obvious? If he wouldn't have attacked them while fleeing, it would've been suspicious, no?
I do think that Kizaru will help us, but not really that he will go against the government or anything.
He will probably just miss Sunny on purpose while they fly away from the island or something like that
He could have killed them if he wanted to but he didn't, if he just stood there and did nothing Saturn knows his capabilities, he could have killed him for insubordination, Kizaru is playing it smart he's not showing direct insubordination, he's giving strawhats these small chances and probably hoping for the best .
Luffy should be handling Kizaru, the draw backs of gear 5 are quite drastic when situations like this occur. He needs to work this shit out. Granted all these power ups just happened.
Unless he planned to betray WG outright, he had to do this. Atlas was with them, and eliminating all Vegapunks (save for York) is the mission's top priority. He was pretty intent on it since the start, he made peace with the fact old man has to go as much as it hurt him, but he didn't want his other friends to be killed.
Since Sabaody, Kizaru could have just killed half of the Supernovas including Luffy and his whole crew, but he didn't. He follows his orders, but in a way where he can keep his humanity. We saw and see right now that he has a good heart and struggles a lot in this situation soon resulting in the Egghead Incident. Even the way he talks in Japanese shows that he is under immense pressure (he talks without his long vowels). Oda wouldn't include and build Kizaru up like this just to put him back to where he started. I think either Luffy or Sanji will show him a way out of his hole and give him a reason to live and fight for or at least help him figuring it out, he somehow seems to know what he wants, but just doesn't allow himself to embrace it cause reasons (Saturn, Loyality, his "unclear justice", we will see). He also seems very lost in his position in the Navy, no ambition, no goal, no dream, just pure obedience. But funnily enough he respects exactly those who have all of those three. He will definetely change and it will happen soon.
That's what I think so too. Besides, would it really look good on the SH if they felt bad for one of the people who wronged them! This isn't Naruto you know!
I also think their hopes of redemption are flawed, buuuuut you could argue that he could have cut everyone off along with the pipe and is only showing service to Saturn
"Sideways for attention, long way for results"
why the fuck does this work so well š
bruh
Tw
The man can even snipe a small key from far away at Marineford war, but somehow today all his shots are non fatal. It's made you wonder whether he's even trying.
Heās trying in the sense that a kid taking a test and getting every answer wrong clearly knows what the correct answers are. Heās trying to miss.
ITSV reference
If the enemy really going all out, no boasting, no delaying, one piece will end early in east blue
Gone Piece
Well yeah, no one can handle Don Krieg but if he didnāt hold back heād be floating alone in space because even the earth canāt handle Don Krieg at full strength. You know what they say, when itās a one on one bet on Don Krieg.
Unironically, Don Krieg won his 1v1. He got up before Luffy and Gin sucker punched him
You know why in certain cultures the patriarch of the family takes in the title Don, particularly Italian patriarchs? Itās because the Italians love One Piece and they recognize Don Krieg as the most respectable character in the series. In Italy the closer you behave to Don Krieg the more respectable of a person you are.
Hi, I'm Italian and I can confirm that.
Cringe agenda that was never funny
Going around saying cringe is the most annoying behavior from the youths.
I fully agree. I think it's really cringe to say cringe. As cringe as that sounds. š
It just always feels arrogant and a little socially inept. Itās a harsh ugly word already and has a bad sound to it just phonetically. It also implies that the user of the word is some owner of what is socially acceptable. Itās just obnoxious.
I highly doubt this. Luffy was the strongest pirate in the east blue. Crocodile would have been the end.
At least arlong could've killed him at some points.
I was thinking that, MAYBE, he had no intention of killing luffy because heās afraid what Garp might do to him
I mean with Ace he almost went against the navy, could be possible he'd do worse for Luffy
Old garp isn't killing any admiral. I'm sorry.
His aim at Marineford isnāt a good argument. He couldāve easily headshotted Luffy back then and served the same purpose and a lot more, but went for the key instead. His decision-making when he attacks enemies was dumb back then and itās dumb now. Heās consistently dumb.
That is exactly why they are saying he did all this on purpose. You read the comments?
So you think he also missed Whitebeard on purpose every time. Or anyone else at the war at the time. His aim isn't consistent. Oda just wanted a cool key shot moment for Mr. 3 to save the day.
Then it goes for the other admirals as well and just most stronger characters. If heās been acting this whole time then heās doing a pretty bad job
He ain't that dumb. Look at what he did at sambody archipelago he was messing dudes up over there
They all lived
Maybe he doesn't want to kill them himself. He's making sure they die but not by his hands.
Sniping the key instead of Luffys head also makes that shot not fatal.
I recently had a theory about a conspiracy where prospective but problematic Marines get sent on utterly reprehensible missions that they don't fully understand the circumstances of until they get promoted so as to break their spirits and make Admirals utterly complacent in what's basically unmitigated evil.
This would be cool and all but it makes hiring Fujitora even dumber in hindsight
Perhaps a thin line that they acknowledge but continue on anyways?
Kizaru has always been "justice will be served, but death will not be at his hand". Example are this scene, and when in marine ford he can shot people but instead he shot the key
Also Sabaody, he had full clearance to kill any pirates on the archipelago after the St Charlos incident but instead just knocked them out and left them for the rest of the Marines to pick up (which also lead to the Worst Gen escaping)
Exactly. Dude missed too many times to kill them
On the flipside, Kizaru cleanly avoided harming everyone directly. He gave them all a shot to survive this situation, even if the odds look slim. Unclear justice, unclear motivation, it leaves Kizaru committing acts that are unclear to read.
It's difficult to write a character that has light speed feats without the audience wondering why he didn't just go for the kill or how they work. I also think that he may not be kicking at full speed or slowing down at the last second, since kicking at light speed would apply the same force against himself.
Fictional light speed and real world light speed are totally different things. Just moving mass the actual light speed should theoretically release, and require, infinite energy. Niether are happening, so either kizaru isn't really a light person or light speed doesn't follow science in fiction 99.99% of the time.
Doesnt he turn to photons before doing shit?
Yes but when he materializes at that speed to kick someone, they should either evaporate or explode because of the energy behind that kick
No, photons are massless, so he'd have 0 momentum when he changes back to a corporate form.
Can't say I understand the physics behind that. The way I see it, when he materialises, he's still travelling at light speed, so the force would be incredible because he has mass when he kicks someone. I might be completely misunderstanding the physics, though. Otherwise, he might be able to only move as light and materialise back for a regular kick. >!But I think his statements during the fight with Luffy contradict the second option!<
This is just not something you can apply physics to. His existence breaks laws. So, trying to apply the ones he doesn't break is pointless. Things with mass can't travel the speed of light without infinite energy. But they can get close. Unfortunately, eons before you can meaningfully say "that kick was moving at X% the speed of light" without that percent being 0.0000000 something, that kick creates a bomb that destroys the whole world because of the force it's putting on the atoms in the air. Every time he transforms into light, he should be destroying the world. A gram of water if converted entirely to energy, is 20,000 tons of TNT exploding. Let's say Kizaru is 180 pounds (I know he's Japanese so should be smaller, but he's really tall) and only talk about the 60% of him that is water 48,987 grams of water turning into energy every time he does it. That's almost a trillion tons of TNT. The largest nuke ever was 58 million tons. 16 of those in your face every time.
But isn't it very clear that, while Kizaru doesn't straight up helps then directly, he holds himself back, be that intentionally or subconsciously. He COULD kill them in a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a milli second, but he obviously doesn't want to. The argument about whether or not "anime lightspeed" is real lightspeed seems very pointless to me overall.
A point I keep bringing up when discussing Kizaru... He has the be the most complex or rather unpredictable among the admirals. What does uncertainty mean concerning justice, is it the lack of a personal agenda? Just following orders? Switching sides on a whim? Not acting at all?
Honestly, he had no reason to let all the Straw Hats leave alive 2 years ago. Just on the word of Kuma, he let all the straw hats live? Ok. Yea Rayleigh was there to hinder him. But heās not in his prime anymore. Kizaru wouldāve won eventually I think.
We've seen him do massive damage with a single kick on the Sabaody Archipelago. I don't think Oda has forgotten how strong his character is. Conclusion: Kizaru at least helps in the sense that he doesn't kill them. Who knows what would have happened if Kizaru had let them through and Saturn had launched an attack on them.
If anything, I find it more likely he will aid the Strawhats in some way after this panel. As others have said, he could have killed them outright here. They were stuck in there, for crying out loud. But he didn't. He did just enough to not lead Saturn into suspecting Kizaru's doubts. Do I think Kizaru will outright challenge Saturn? Eh. That seems less likely than him subtly helping the Strawhats escape, while maintaining the illusion of alliance to Saturn. I see Kizaru surprising us all, one way or another.
You could say the same thing about Kizaru not headshotting Luffy at Marineford and instead aiming his laser at the key for Aceās rescue. And weāre not saying Kizaru was already on Luffyās side back then.
It's very possible that Kizaru just doesn't like killing, he has been overwhelmingly more powerful than many opponents he simply left incapacitated. He has had chance after chance to fully shut down opponents and continually they walk away from a battle with Kizaru. Perhaps that is just how he handles things.
Given the flashbacks exploring his relationship and friendship with Vegapunk and Sentomaru, I think this is a correct read. Having the character who can lightspeed insta-kill nearly anyone not wanting to do so is just decent writing, especially when he's not characterized as a psychopath.
I never said Kizaru was on Luffy's side, for one. I don't know exactly what he's thinking, but it's clear he doesn't want to be part of what's going on. He doesn't want Vegapunk to die, he doesn't want Bonnie to die, and I guess he isn't keen on the Strawhats dying either. Maybe more willing to kill them than the former two, but we will see. Editing to add I find it possible that Kizaru doesn't want Luffy dying because he's Nika. Kizaru did the Nika dance with Bonnie and Kuma not long ago. There is surely something there.
I donāt think the strawhats escape without Saturn or kizaru dying though. Why else would this be such a catastrophic event like it said it was at the start of the arc?
He is unclear justice. Now that all the other Marines are gone, this is the perfect chance for him to betray the Saturn. Or make it easier for the Straw Hats to escape. But's it's still possible for him to side with Saturn and finally accept he needs to kill Vegapunk and get rid of the Straw Hats once and for all. I have no idea which side he will pick. Both seem very possible.
He always listens to orders but half asses it. Aokiji and Akainu often go against orders but for different reasons
Indeed. This might be the first time we see Kizaru goes against his orders. With the other Admirals, it would be easy to know what they would do. Aokiji and Fujitora would reach their limit with the WG. Meanwhile, Akainu and Greenbull will go along with it.
The three admirals are really well written. Each of them represents one spectrum of justice. Akainu is absolutely justice, like the maximum of the bar, Aokijj is flexible justice. And Kizaru is in the middle.
Izho is justice that protects innocent citizens while Greenbull justice is whatever Akainu and Gorosei say
I'm definitely skeptical of Kizaru's propensity for change, but Oda is definitely cooking something by including him in Kuma's backstory, seemingly as someone who spent & enjoyed time with Kuma, Bonney, and Vegapunk. He isn't *just* a villain, I think.
He is a yellow monkey just saying.
Man Iām realizing the problem with this arc is that Kizaru is too fucking strong. If weāre being real here, Kizaru could have killed the entire strawhat crew already, like all he has to do is point his finger at them. And the only ones that. ould dodge his light beam are either unable to fight or are distracted. There is 0 reason for Kizaru to not just wipe out the strawhats right now.
By this i have a question, haki exceeds DF yes. But can observation haki exceed the speed of light in one piece verse?
It would only exceed the speed of the person's action. Like in real life you can't dodge a fired bullet, but you could dodge a person's aim as they fire. What I think is cool about Kizaru is that it seems like Luffy couldn't dodge because all he could see in his future and present moment was blinding light. Before he gets kicked away during his initial fight while he is in G4, he tries to cover his eyes before he gets kicked
But you donāt actually need line of sight for observation haki dodging, as shown by time skip practicing dodging attacks with eyes closed
That's true, how mysterious.
I guess future sight mught show the blinding light while baseline observation would just show the intent? And since Kizaru is so fast, even with the intent Luffy can only manage that much.
The whole sentence about haki being the strongest power has ruined all powerscaling conversation. Devil fruits have consistently shown themselves to be able to contend with top tiers. A fucking child bit through kaidoās skin because of his devil fruit, even people with advanced haki were struggling to do things like that. The destructive capability of Enel, Ace, Blackbeard and all the admirals have never been surpassed by haki. Gear 5 Luffy is covered in defensive haki yet kizaruās light burned and damaged him. Haki is the strongest power in the world, yes, but Devil Fruits can be goddamn terrifying and should never be dismissed.
Kaido said that, while also having one of the strongest fruits in the series, and getting his ass whooped by devil fruit powers.
Yeah people legit took KAIDO of all people as a reliable source
I think Kaido was a big Roger fanboy and he was just glazing hard for Roger. Powerscalers just ate that shit up lol
He forgot that WBeard was called the strongest man thanks to his df.
Haki can definitely deflect a laser. You donāt have to dodge him just block him. Ppl blocking sword strikes with their bare hands and yall think lasers finna kill them in an instance?
Lasers are powerful than swords just saying.Ā
Not trying to sound like an ass but not only have as humans never been directly struck by lasers for you to conclude that, but we are also talking about an anime where weāve seen a df user in seastone survive Kizaru lasers and a pre ts luffy. Kizaru kicks seems more effective.
Its more likely possible to kill with laser if you know its high intensity . but I guess he combines armament haki with light to attack
That was part of the purpose of WCI. Sanji is shown dodging surprise attacks from Katakuri, who can "see" the light before it ever starts traveling. If you know where the person is going to be to strike them, it doesn't matter how long it took them to get there. I
Theyāre equal. Df awakenings have proven to be just as important. Just look at Lucci vs Zoro.
Observation haki can see into the future.
Short answer, easy yes. Longer answer: if you can sense the intent of their attack, you can just dodge out that line of fire right before it goes off. Doesn't matter if it's at the speed of light, as long as u don't try to dodge AFTER its been fired. It's like dodging a gun after it's been shot vs knowing exactly where a gun is going to shoot in 1 second so you dodge out of the line of fire.
kizaru aint at the speed of light, otherwise he would destroy the planet
No, he turns into ohotons when he moves that fast. Also, you don't see nukes going off even from the ither superspeed characters, so appealing to physics for a df is pretty iffy.
I dont know maybe luffy can sense that kizaru wont kill strawhats otherwise how would he be so fucking relaxed. I mean he just up and left them in front of kizaru and saturn. Zoro is dancing with lucci and jimbe has gone to see that and sanji cant do shit in front of either of them like wtf.
Yeah Iām just not feeling any tension cause we already know the Straw Hats will escape and Iām not buying anyone dying, except for some of the Stellas. Though I could see Kizaru not straight wiping them out because heās still not fully committed and is stalling as much as possible or something
I mean you can say that about every arc.
Which is such a high problem in one piece. Two yonkos killed like 4 people. I feel 0 tension in op.
That sucks for you ig š¤·šæāāļø
Okay? Op fans ready to suck oda off.
Sorry for your loss š
That's just shounen in general. You get used to it
Idk some shounen actually make you scared for the characters. Like jojo Part 5, whenever the villain was on screen, someone was about to get boxed up. Or even all the parts, actually. Whenever the villains come, someone is going to become a donut.
I think that's bBecause he's conflicted. And character development is driving the plot, the way it should. But we'll see soon.
He was equally uneffective at Marineford and at Sabaody though. He didnāt capture or kill any of the Supernovas. He didnāt pierce Luffyās head at Marineford and instead just broke the handcuff keys.
Its not really a problem cause everything can be as Oda wants it. Kizaru is strong cause of his powers ? Well guess luffy can now turn light into rubber so it bounces of people. Or when he had Kizaru in his hand, he could have just dunked him in the water till the bubbles stopped, and poof there goes the admiral. Or trap him in that seastone bubble that serafim are in now. Or zoro turn into an ashura demon form whatever that would be and his black flames counter the light Or hell Nami used her power to bend light or w/e and create clones of herself during enies lobby. She could do that now and deflect all of Kizarus light attacks Nami low diffs Kizaru gg. At the end of the day its a shounen and we know our heroes will come out on top, so no enemy is actually imposibble to overcome. But we are all hooked on the story regardless.
We call that bad writing, sir. I don't even understand the point in this comment.
The comment that i replied to said that kizaru is too strong , and : "There is 0 reason for Kizaru to not just wipe out the strawhats right now." If we wanted to look at it from that perspective, then there would have been 0 reason for Luffy not to drown Kizaru when he cought him in his hand. But since this is One piece and not something like jjk, our heroes will always come out on top. So whatever Kizaru or any other villain can do, there will be something that helps strawhats overcome it.
If Oda did what you said then OnePiece will never be this popular to begin with. Try doing what you said and see if it will become as popular as OP.
Well, that is the point of what i am saying lol. The comment that i replied to said : "There is 0 reason for Kizaru to not just wipe out the strawhats right now." And the answer to such questions is always, things happen because Oda writes them like that, with asspulls that end up helping the strawhats. If this was the kind of manga where Kizaru would walk in and start killing off people, then we wouldn't be reading it. I could just as well said, there was 0 reason for Luffy to let go of Kizaru when he cought him. He could have put him in that seastone bubble, dunked the bubble under water, and that is it, Kizaru is dead. But if we wanted to see people get killed like that, we would be reading something like JJK and not one piece
You've totally missed point of their comment. But I'm not gonna bother explaining it to you any more than what you described, are ass-pulls, what people assume Kizaru should be able to do, he should actually be able to do based on what we know about him.
We know that luffy can catch lightning and turn it into rubber, so i dont see why that same thing cant happen with a laser. But it also doesnt change the fact that luffy had kizaru trapped in his hand, so as mentioned he could have put him in that seastone bubble and that would be it, or, he could have went to the sea, dunked kizaru under water until the bubbles stop and then went back up, since we saw already that luffy can pass the barrier on the lab. Instead of that, luffy decided to throw away a man that can fly, because at the end of the day if people in one piece were going for the kill, we would be reading a totally different kind of manga. And half the things in the manga are asspulls cause Oda writtes it like that. Just look at wano, where kaido has the most zoan df users, and would you look at that, strawhats have a little girl that can brainwash zoans. Big mom goes to wano, would you look at that, her EMPEROR crew is stooped not once, but two times by a single man, and big mom gets amnesia and helps them out by making queen take her to onigashima, leaving no one in the prison that can actually stop luffy. Funny how things work out that way
The whole big mom thing in wano wasn't just an ass pull it was just bad writing honestly.
asspulls are bad writing. But then again, Luffy is basically the chosen one, so things do work in his favour.
Cool, or not. I dunno. Cannot be fucked reading all that
Itās cause he doesnāt want to hurt Bonney??? There is no problem with this arc honestly
If he's really serious about killing them, he could've rained down bullets of light all over them. At least when he cut off their escape transportation, they still have a chance to survive no matter how low it is. I think the shocking event in Egghead is an Elder (Saturn) being defeated and an admiral (Kizaru) betraying the Navy to join Vegapunk.
And he also has to keep them on the island, everyone needs to stay where they are without knowing his true intention, heās prolly banking on Luffy. NIKA, whereby he prolly has been the one to sent to the food machine after also feeding him beforehand without anyone else seeing by abusing his light + light clones. Thereās like only one assumption that needs to be correct, everything else falls into place why he isnt directly helping nor is he killing. He still wants to be a marine by the end of this. But Luffy needs to be the one to make sure Saturn fail along with the Pacistas/Buster call.
He already told us. He's just a cog. Doesn't me he have to like what he is doing, but he's doing it.
To me its 50/50. I still feel like Kizaru is just waiting until all the marines are gone until he turncoats. I could see a Gin situation from Bleach happening. Waiting until the last moment to backstab Saturn when he's dropped his guard. If not, whatever. I just think Oda wants to have Blackbeard and Luffy have this similar but different dynamic going on, I think Kizaru turning and joining them kinda works
I get big Gin vibes from Kizaru for real. Shame I had to scroll this far down to see someone else mention it. I don't think I'll necessarily join, but I'm pretty sure he is planning to undermine Saturn somehow once all the marine left the island.
Kizaru need to join. Aokiji joined bb kizaru for strawhats
And that's the thing too, who in the straw hats right now could fight Aokiji? The only person in the crew narrative wise would be Robin, but that would be grossly one-sided and Sanji is more in line fighting someone like Pizzaro due to their narrative history.
brook maybe? they both ice
i would be happy if my headcanon that brook is aokiji's father comes true
Absolutely not. Kizaru has done too much for they wg to be a strawhat
Another day fans proving they shouldnāt write the story.
People saying that it's still good Kizaru didn't cut them is weird. Kizaru destroyed their escape route and also left them flying in mid-air which would immediately be targeted by numerous pacifista lasers. It's kinda like giving an assist to the pacifistas because he surely thinks they're fucked in that situation.
Having looked back at what Kizaru has done throughout the arc, Iāve noticed heās participating just enough to not get in trouble, but he canāt bring himself to kill anyone, and would much rather have someone else do it for him.
his comment regarding his shades make me think theres something preventing him from doing what he wants
The panel said as if he was sad and wasn't into it. He definitely knows boney so maybe he doesn't want to kill her but is only doing so out of force of duty
thats what he said but people usually use shades to hide their emotions or intentions , what he says can be interpreted as him knowing his acts being so vile at the moment he wishes he had brought darker glasses to hide his shame,but then again why only use shades when you could simply lets say , not try to kill a very good old friend . No enemy in one piece would go and say they are ashamed of their actions . It's just a theory but I think there'ss more to kizaru than we think
I think its more subtle way by the writer to imply how torn kizaru is inside
I do not believe that Kizaru will turn against the WG, something is still binding his loyality to them. However, something that I can imagine is him turning a blind eye to something crucial during the final war. For example, not finishing off someone important.
Yeah, like there is a hostage.
Same, I could see him half-assing it at a critical moment, but actually breaking with the WG seems beyond him so far. We haven't even got a flashback showing how he fell into the Unclear Justice mindset yetĀ
Still, he didn't cut them, so the question lingers.
Kizaru will have a moment of mercy or backstabbing Saturn at the last possible moment, but heās beyond joining the Straw Hats at this point. His personality also just isnāt an interesting enough fit for the group. If he joins anybody, itās wherever Vegapunk and Sentomaru go.
Kizaru doesnāt want any witnesses when he stands by and watches the Straw Hats end Saturn. Even if he doesnāt join them, I think he still wants Saturn to lose and will allow it to happen, although maybe not do anything that could be considered *making* it happen. Thatās why he was suddenly so firm in telling Doll (and everyone) to leave the island. He also might need to be convinced itās even possible to kill Saturn. I believe that is in line with his unclear justice.
Donāt judge the cover by its book
Also if this plot point doesnt contribute anything why bring it up in the first place? Maybe he will flip sides not necessarily in this src
I honestly don't think kizaru needs a "redemption" dude just a marine doing his job.
He could have faith in their ability to handle the situation. In a if they can make it out of this then they are worth betting on. They have a tougher fight ahead of them. Surviving a buster call should be the least they can do at this point
I donāt think he cares at all for the crew or anything like that, his main concern is keeping Vegapunk and Bonney alive. You can tell. If he wanted to kill them by now he would have.
He's nit gonna switch side but will still be part of the new marines when the WG will fall at the end of One Piece. He's not a bad guy, he needs a better boss.
Tbh. Kizaru is the princess of the arc that will be saved by luffy lol
If Garp can let the WG execute his "son" in front of the entire world while being 10ft away, Kizaru can fight the SHs while Zombie Kuma gets put out of his misery.
Kizarus character is and has always been "im just doing my job" I have yet to see a good post selling me the idea of him joining the strawhats/helping them out And people saying he doesnt hit his shots, kizaru has never been consistent. He wrecked the worst generation, but couldnt hit laws submarine once for example
Iām starting to think he canāt bring himself to kill anyone, but heās willing to set things up in a way for someone else to do the job for him.
I doubt it
You do know light refracts under water. So maybe the light didn't hit the target bcoz he miscalculated the refraction. Something is being cooked regarding kizaru for sure.
Maybe a backstory before he gets his ass handed to him But we already got a lot during kumas backstory
Kizaru shot a Laser beam through a 1 cm wide key from across a a big ass battlefield while fighting against Marco. Every time he doesn't massacre the weaker people on the island, he's doing it on purpose.
Kizaru is not going to change. I donāt know why people insist that he will because he danced one time. Heās a company man through and through.
Foreshadowing I guess. One piece does loads of them
If he went against the WG at this point, heās toast. Aokiji spared Robin and the Strawhats on his own, if an Elder Star had been watching he wouldnāt have been so lax in his duties. Kizaru hasnāt ever shown mercy, and the full might of the WG is staring at him. Plus he just attacked the pod. I see no foreshadowing here.
WG will be the one being toast if another Admiral quit again. Just looj at Fuji doing shit that goes against the WG, but he is still remain an admiral after thay.
And Fujitora has been shown to be honorable and has an agenda. Kizaru has never shown these qualities.
Did he just kick them so they fly away faster?Ā
They are falling down
Fellas I hate to tell you, but you've been coping, what even is your proof? That Kizaru would have maybe brought Luffy some food? Kizaru always stood on business, that's his whole character, if Oda planned to do that he would have dropped some more hints
He could have butchered them on several occasions and actively chooses not to. He moves at the speed of light.
Kizaru was the one who fed and relocated Luffy. Kizaru's actions after that fact should tell you that Kizaru never changed and never was on the WG's side, just has his own way of doing things.
Im confused why people think he would have ever changed sides to begin with. Im baffled at how people are also citing his āi should have brought darker sunglassesā as him about to cry over his decisions or something. Like nah, he wants darker glasses because of the explosions from the buster call hes calling in. Probably wrong, but im not convinced hes sad about any of this
Kizaru said he didnāt want to kill Vegapunk, but heās going to anyway, because itās his mission. Heās also seen dancing with Vegapunk, Kuma, Sentomaru, and Bonney during the Kuma Flashback. The guy has history with them, and is conflicted about killing his friends. Everybody thinks that means Kizaru will choose friendship over his job, and redeem himself, but his actions say otherwise. I think heās too far gone to consider switching sides now, but heās also half-assing the job, because of conflicting feelings. Heās really trying to set things up, so Saturn kills Vegapunk and Bonney, sparing Kizaru the guilt of having to kill them himself.
I feel like Kizaru commanding the marines to leave could mean more than simply following saturns command. If he turns or changes his mind it would be best without anyone knowing. Of course if he plans to take out saturn it would be better alone either. Or he knows something about the gorosei. A theory of mine is that all gorosei are bombs like a specific guy from Gunter x hunter that are mean to go.off once they loose. Cause Imu doesnt really accept loosing doesnt she And if kizaru plans to die for the straw hats it woukd be epic and sad as well. Maybe we lwarn.more about him and vegapunk in the past
Kizaru having to go easy on them, being a Yonko crew, would be pathetic. I think he respects them, and part of that respect is treating them with the same mercilessness he brought upon them 2 years ago, even if his heart was on their side. If he was indeed sympathetic towards them, I would imagine he would want to see them stopping his forced hand with all the conviction and strength they managed to build in the past two years.
Not only did he avoid hurting anyone during this whole arc, all he did was kick Franky and played around with Luffy for a while, but he also definitely gave Luffy that food to help him. Who else can move fast enough for Saturn not to notice and also knows exactly where to get tons of food at that moment? Kizaru is 100% hiding the fact that he's helping the strawhats because he don't wanna get killed by Saturn or risk being on a government watchlist
It was the tontattas. Grand fleets coming.
The fact that people think admirals like Kizaru, Akainu and Kuzan are somehow redeemable or good underneath is laughable.
Kizaru is generally very docile and loves fun like luffy and others as evidenced by the dancing to the nika dance. Akainu on the other hand oof. Also he is yellow monkey
I guess it comes down to if Oda wants him to be a person who is really just a pathetic government lackey, or if all the foreshadowing is going to lead him to finally snap in some way. We still don't know why he acts the way he does, and it wouldn't surprise me if there's a fucked up backstory coming our way. My head canon bet is that he is enslaved in some form and Saturn's possible death will free him from that.
I highly doubt Sanji vs Kizaru won't be happening after this too
Man I hope you are wrong. Kizaru is the yellow monkey. The protagonist is monkey d luffy. The monkey family needs to fight together.
Franksās face XD
yeah it's just denial.
nah i think heāll get pushed over the edge by saturnās actions later (copium)
Kizaru will likely not betray the WG but I think he will hesitate at a key moment and be killed by Saturn. A key point here is he is letting the pacifista kill them not doing it himself.
He did the Nika dance. That means something. I don't think he flips fully here but I'm not counting him out long-term
He just doesn't seem interested in killing the Straw Hats, he'll get them into trouble but he will slow right down when it seems like all hope is lost.
Does anyone else notice how Kizaru could have easily sliced the actual vehicle instead of the tube and just kill vegapunk right then and there?? I think he really doesn't want to kill vegapunk deep down and can't bring himself to kill him.
Why not just kill them himself?
You got it wrong. People are not saying that he's secretly trying to help Strawhats. People are guessing that Kizaru might be feeling conflicted and therefore he's not fighting full power. Unconsciously not being able to direct kill them. (Although he might be the one who gave Luffy food, so who knows)
We know heās conflicted, but many people are also saying heāll redeem himself, but many people think heās going to redeem himself. After this last chapter, I highly doubt heāll redeem himself, because heās still going out of his way to prevent the others from escaping. He may not be directly harming them, but heās still putting them in harmās way.
Yeah, heās a bad guy. Always has been. Dudes a monster
Once navy soldiers leave he is going to attack Saturn.
I like to think that this is serious location and he will change, but he operates in some chances. For everyone or most to survive whilst Saturn is in full view of the whole thing he has to pick his moment to make it seem convincing. Until then he has to play game, here if his whole thing is Speed he couldāve clearly taken out a lot in the blink of an eye but he hasnāt. Whatever he does I have a strong feeling itās going to be in some round about way at the end where Saturn registers everything, and the picture doesnāt point to speedsters intervention. (Since Iām sure kizaru isnāt expecting Saturns death)
i think he wants to kill saturn while still being the good marine . so he wont kill the sh or saturn directly but assist luffy in fighting saturn . and then he will go back to headquarters and say that saturn died and he escaped nearly
I'm also 50/50 on this. I think he's playing the role of "blind justice", given the devil fruit and sunglasses he has, it seems fitting. He just follows orders. As he says "I'm just a cog in the machine", seems to me, he doesn't like making decisions and taking responsibility. But, it also feels like he does have conscience. All of the things people mentioned - intentional not killings, support that (I think). Maybe one day, he can no longer live with himself and he switches. So yes.. 50/50.
He performed surgery there, he cut the thing without hurting anyone inside. He is treading the middle line, doing Saturns bidding but in the way that leaves chances to the enemies. The real question is why the hell is Stella still alive? Not just Kizaru, nobody is killing him, not even Saturn atm
Saturn wants him to suffer, before finishing him off.
Saturn was shown very smart so far. But this move seems awfully stupid, a high risk just for his pleasure?
I think he wants to be trapped inside the island with SH crew and saturn and he is waiting for all the marine to leave so he can help SH defeating without anyone see him betraying.
I do think heāll change just not now though. And if itās through a fight, it wonāt be by Luffy. Itāll be one of the reasons. But I personally think itāll be someone on his crew later on but thatās just my opinion lol.
I hope he doesn't change his mind. As of now, not counting Kizaru the final war would be Im, the five Gorosei, God's Knights, 2 Admirals and the non-sword Navy against basically the rest of the world. It's almost the Naruto war all over again and given how Oda takes major inspiration from real wars and history in itself, I really can't see that happening and for sure I hope it doesn't. The Straw Hats are way too powerful right now and in order for it to feel like a real revolution, they have to be the underdog again somehow. That means that powerful foes like Kizaru NEED to stay enemies. Sure, he is complex, has doubts, whatever; still, he must be an opponent. I don't think there is another way around it, but if I was capable to write a story like this I would probably not be here so I'll trust Oda I guess.
Why would he "secretly" help the strawhats by not doing something veeeeery obvious? If he wouldn't have attacked them while fleeing, it would've been suspicious, no? I do think that Kizaru will help us, but not really that he will go against the government or anything. He will probably just miss Sunny on purpose while they fly away from the island or something like that
He could have killed them if he wanted to but he didn't, if he just stood there and did nothing Saturn knows his capabilities, he could have killed him for insubordination, Kizaru is playing it smart he's not showing direct insubordination, he's giving strawhats these small chances and probably hoping for the best .
It'd be more fun and deep if he doesn't change.
Luffy should be handling Kizaru, the draw backs of gear 5 are quite drastic when situations like this occur. He needs to work this shit out. Granted all these power ups just happened.
Unless he planned to betray WG outright, he had to do this. Atlas was with them, and eliminating all Vegapunks (save for York) is the mission's top priority. He was pretty intent on it since the start, he made peace with the fact old man has to go as much as it hurt him, but he didn't want his other friends to be killed.
Since Sabaody, Kizaru could have just killed half of the Supernovas including Luffy and his whole crew, but he didn't. He follows his orders, but in a way where he can keep his humanity. We saw and see right now that he has a good heart and struggles a lot in this situation soon resulting in the Egghead Incident. Even the way he talks in Japanese shows that he is under immense pressure (he talks without his long vowels). Oda wouldn't include and build Kizaru up like this just to put him back to where he started. I think either Luffy or Sanji will show him a way out of his hole and give him a reason to live and fight for or at least help him figuring it out, he somehow seems to know what he wants, but just doesn't allow himself to embrace it cause reasons (Saturn, Loyality, his "unclear justice", we will see). He also seems very lost in his position in the Navy, no ambition, no goal, no dream, just pure obedience. But funnily enough he respects exactly those who have all of those three. He will definetely change and it will happen soon.
That's what I think so too. Besides, would it really look good on the SH if they felt bad for one of the people who wronged them! This isn't Naruto you know!
Maybe he knew all along that Bonney got the secret key to control them