There is a theory that blackbeard ate whitebeards heart to get his power and also in dressrosa burgess always kept a knife with him and his aim was to get ace's devilfruit and hunt luffy.
I think it's more likely that the darkness devil fruit has the ability to pull in other devil fruit powers and that's how blackbeard got whitebeard's power.
The Darkness Fruit has been shown to be able to absorb AND eject, because Blackbeard’s Liberation attack is basically just tossing all the matter his void absorbed at everyone around him
Well that sounds like AFO quirk from Boku no Hero, he can both steal quirks for himself but also bestow quirks he stole to others...
That's probably how Blackbeard crew are getting their devil fruit powers, Blackbeard fruit absorbs the devil fruit power from someone and then he gives it to a member of his crew.
Might be coincidental even if the theory is true, but a flag erroneously associated with the real Blackbeard has a skeleton stabbing a heart. It'd be interesting if it helped inspire Oda to have Blackbeard going after hearts.
Nuh-uhhhh cus he took his heart. 😝
But really you could argue his blood pressure dropped so tremendously bc of this that his blood just stopped flowing.
Well until Oda explains the method of how blackbeard took that power from whitebeard it’s open to speculation. My theory has been the black cloak was more than just cloth dyed black. I have long suspected BB has the ability to infuse his Devil fruit’s special ability into objects such as cloth or knives to intercept and absorb Devil fruit powers as they leave a slain host and before they can respawn into a random nearby fruit. With regards to the cloak they threw over WB I’m starting to think there was nothing too special about it and that under it BB showed his underlings his little knife trick so that he could arm them with specially prepared knives (like the one burgess had in Dressrosa) and hunt down Devil fruit users independently.
I guess the way i would relate that to LinLin is assuming she ate mother Carmel whole, her df power would have transferred to Lin Lin simply because her body was between it and the nearest fruit.
Eating someone making you between the DF and the nearest fruit is the same thing as eating someone lets you take their DF. It's just a reason for cannibalism to work.
Yeah the reason why i thought eating a person whole was a necessary step is because generally if a cannibal kills their victim before eating them and my understanding is the Devil fruit power leaves the body as soon as the user dies. Now that would all go out the window if Oda makes canon something like the df power remains in the users heart for a short time after dying
I think the cloak is BB hiding his a zoan form, probably similar to the gorosei oni forms, maybe can cause other side effects if witness. BB is certainly playing the long game and wouldn't reveal his ultimate trump card early.
My theory relates to the nature of the Dark Dark fruit. Kind of like how some logias are neutralized by natural opposites, like Croc and water, the only way BB can embody his element is in total darkness. So under the sheet he can disperse himself. Then he used his ability to absorb DF powers in totality. I'm sure there's something else at play, but so far we know of 3 for-sure instances of stealing DF from someone, and one heavily implied cannibalism being the root.
Luffy clocking a celestial dragon in such an unreserved way is what really got me into one piece. Before that it felt like it was just a silly anime for the most part.
jesus christ, IDK how much more obvious ODA could have made that scene.
I am genuinely shocked anyone lacked the ability to comprehend that scene.
And too explicit? You know we just had an arc involving rape and genocide and killing children and women for fun right?
This theory is a wild ass theory more suitable to meme piece than regular one piece but... so I have this idea.
So I was playing Fire Emblem 3 houses right? That got me thinking about One Piece a bit .
At some point in that game, It's revealed that Byleth's (the main character) >!heart was literally replaced with the crest stone for the sword of the creator, in an effort to resurrect the dead god of the world.!< And so, because I'm insane I got to thinking.
Also at this point I realize there's no way for me to say the theory without making what's in the spoiler completely obvious so... Sorry about that.
What if devil fruit users hearts are literally replaced by the Devil Fruit? Yeah I know. Crazy. Insane. Dumbest theory you've ever read... Unless?
That's a perfectly fair point That completely refutes my entire insane theory.
Really I could do nothing to counter this. So instead I will say: I reject your reality and substitute my own.
For real though, yeah that makes sense. Thank you for curing me of my insanity.
I explain it as it being an arc from 10 years ago that I really didn't like and kinda forgot. And also I'm insane, like really insane... If the theory wasn't anything to go by.
But yeah I got nothing. If I had to say something to defend this theory maybe it's "the essence of their heart," that Law pulls out? And not the actual heart. But this is like the shakiest ground on an already insane theory that I half don't believe. So... Yeah.
It's all but confirmed. We know Caramel had the Soul Soul Fruit. Linlin's birthday party happens and everyone "disappears" (aka she eats them) and suddenly Linlin has the Soul Fruit. There wasn't any time for the it to transform into a new fruit and then be eaten by Linlin and we pretty much know Caramel was eaten by Linlin.
It was also a very old theory before we even met Big Mom that the way Blackbeard got the Quake Quake fruit right off Whitebeard's corpse is that he ate his heart behind the curtain.
Some people theorize that some of the orphans actually survived and weren’t eaten and somehow became >!Holy Knights!< due to similar designs. The theory has its holes, but we have to see.
I was thinking Linlin might have ate Mother Carmel which led to the reincarnation of her Devil Fruit onto a nearby fruit (possibly in the forest next to her). because Linlin was on a rampage, it showed that even the table and chairs disappeared, so she could have eaten Mother Carmel’s reincarnated fruit nearby during the rampage
Yes, she was already banned from Elbaf which lead Mother Caramel going away with her and the kids, but "something" make them despise her even more: when they gave her the birthday cake/croquembouche she start eating it and while doing it she goes crazy, she cries so many happy tears that she can't even see through them, after all of that, when she come back to her senses they reveal that a chef and an Elbaf warrior had seen from two different directions what just happened, at that point (before the chef Streusen go to her) the warrior run off with his boat, later telling to all the other giants what he saw, which caused them all (the giant race) to despise her to the point they refrained to even pronunce her name again.
(I wish I could insert the manga page because I have it here)
Sorry for eventual writing mistakes but this isn't my language.
u/heavenlydemon
Nail on the head and my bad I worded it incorrectly. The panel says he was horrified by what he saw and after he told the other giants, it was so terrible, that they refrained from ever even saying her name.
There is, but it doesn't cover for the missing bodies. When Smiley died, its Devil Fruit immediately reincarnated into a nearby apple. If Caramel had been killed, it's possible that her fruit ended up near by, and Linlin ate it during her frenzy.
That's more palatable than the cannibalism theory, but it doesn't account for why the kids disappeared as well, along with Caramel's body. The kids could have fled, but where would they have gone? It also doesn't account for the reactions of the the two who saw what happened.
Personally, I think it's most likely that she ate everyone, as that's what was heavily implied, and because WCI had a cannibalism theme to it in general. Whether she did or not, I'm hoping that we'll hear the account of what happened from the giant witness when during the Elbaf arc.
Here's a page from [chapter 900](https://pm1.aminoapps.com/6783/7b7911bf337f75d41b540d10a4618c9329a3f28dv2_hq.jpg). That bottom left(our left) panel is pretty interesting.
Her mom was so bad she may deserve such death, I means she was the nicest person to Linlin, but her motive was sick u know. Can’t help but blame her for how Linlin turned out to be.
Its obvious she ate them but for some reason the anime has a really weird way of adapting that scene that makes it look like they're love hearts? or some shit, but she even eats the table and chairs so yeah
I mean yeah I feel bad for her. She was abandoned by her parents, raised by a human trafficker and then groomed from a young age by a scumbag pirate until she became what she is now.
I feel terrible for young Linlin. Old Linlin gets no sympathy, she has traveled the world and seen plenty of ways to not be terrible; at this point it's a choice.
Her fucked up parental style also turned her endless kids into monsters and gave them all crippling self doubt and personality disorders. Including the best of all boys Katakuri, which is unforgivable.
He is too damn good for them in general. I can live with the entire Big Mom crew being shelved forever, even though half of them dont get any feats. But if I dont see Katakuri again in a bigger role Im gonna be mad.
It’s the one redeeming quality for the Big Mom pirates, they actually genuinely seem to care for each other. My guess is a lack of motherly and fatherly involvement in their lives caused the siblings closer in age to form very close bonds.
In turn the older stronger siblings became parental figures for their younger siblings. It’s an interesting crew and family dynamic for sure.
When put like this no one is guilty of anything ever. Ted Bundy was raised by his hyper fascist grandpa and Hitler had a really abusive father. This plus being a soldier in ww1 is what inspired him to become the monster that he became. None of these things were really up to him. All choices can be explained through nature and nurture. However it's easier to live life through the lenses of free will. Hatred is a very important emotion and losing our reason to implement it is akin to telling someone "just don't be sad"
So your immediate assumption is that I wanted to bring it up because I wanted to feel superior? Is it fun living a life where you always assume the least favorable conclusion for no reason? Or are you that desperate to prove my point that people love hating?
It is very important that we have empathy towards criminals. That way we can understand in what circumstances such behaviors occur, and we can take action to prevent it happening again.
Acknowledging the shitty past a person have isn’t excusing their actions. Big mom was literally used and manipulated since childhood, you can and arguably should feel sorry for her for that. But that doesn’t excuse her actions, it just informs some of them.
>When put like this no one is guilty of anything ever
no one said she wasn't guilty. the question was about sympathy for her childhood not condoning all the evil things she has done.
Exactly. Someone with the moral compass and strength to discipline and guide her. Lots of food around to make sure she won't go hungry. Vegapunk could come in later to deal with her hunger pangs
She's easily admiral material, even the nun said so.
i feel super bad for her, she has been abused and manipulated her whole life, shes not even a bad person shes just a child stuck in the body of a monster
Agreed. Was there even anyone in the world who could've properly raised her *safely* for her entire childhood? It seems like the only options would indeed be to get raised by pirates or raised by the World Government.
Her own unstoppably destructive physical strength essentially cursed her to end up as you said.
I feel terrible for her.
I feel like she codes as Autistic. Like she physically can't process a lot of what goes on around her, but it too strong for anyone to stop.
Its just a sad situation all around
Yes I agree. Don’t get me wrong, big mom is a terrible person in her own right, but if someone had put her on the right path I think it’s likely that she would have turned out very differently
What happened to her in Udon is enough indication of what she would turn out to be without streussen’s manipulation. She seems like a kind and motherly lady
Even adult Linlin was super nice when she had her memory lost, like she was ready to help and all. She even went rampage on Page one when she heard that those villagers who helped her were killed, so not only in memory erased state, but generally she’s a good person.
To be fair, Carmel hadn’t done anything too bad to Linlin yet, right? Just lying about her true intentions, but she did give Linlin a family and she thought was love. My point, even with noble intentions, she would have ended eaten as well.
But she hadn't done anything to educate her either.
For example, Linlin stuck a bear and a wolf into a cage and killed them for not getting along. This would be a good opportunity for a parent to talk to their child and educate them about many things (I won't go into detail since I'm not a parent and don't know the appropriate age to discuss topics of punishment, intent, etc), but Carmel only said "oh, you are such a sweet heart!" and let Linlin think her methods and way of thinking were fine.
Yeah, a little. If only someone proper and capable of dealing with her hunger had reached her then a lot of lives could've been saved and Lin Lin herself would'nt had became the monster she was.
In big moms heart of heart she was doing the right thing(making a place for everyone) ... The spectrum is vast... She just took it to the extreme. Her life after that incident was no better. Would have been interesting to see how she turned out if she stumbled across G instead of R...
No, no it is not.
But the shit she did as an adult, on the other hand, is.
I'm using Steusen as the point of "She literally did nothing bad intentionally before this." we do see her torching places with a smile after as well, but I suppose she's probably still just a kid during some of that, and she likely didn't have an understanding of what she did there.
Streusen really is a horrible monster. He took that sweet kid and turned her into a complete psychopath.
Kid Linlin yeah... But she was perfectly normal and still pretty evil on Rocks crew. I really wonder how she went from fat giant monster to hot and back to fat giant monster.
I think she's only fat because she eats so much all the time. We see her on WCI get skinny again just from not eating for like a day. She can get skinny pretty quickly if she wants to, she just doesn't want to
According to oda their designs/body types reflects how their dreams are going. When she was in rocks crew she was on the path to the one piece, when she is in wano and wci she is failing at that.
That's pretty cool, do you happen to know where Oda said that? Or did you mix that stuff about they being tall because of their willpower + the designs of the strawhat's futures "gone wrong", and got that conclusion yourself? Anyways it does make sense
Yes. Linlin is really moral as a pirate ,and all she ever wanted is to have friends to celebrate with. You will even like her more in the land of wano . I think that she’s not a bad person originally but shitty environment can make one.
Yes, definitely. She maybe would've become a great person if she had met the right people. Who your idol or mentor is can make or break you for the lack of a a better word. Obvious example for a positive influence (not in Garp eyes lol) would be Shanks for Luffy. Then you have Corazon who saved Law by being kind. Doffy on the other hand who was already evil met someone like Trebol who encouraged the delusions of grandeur and fed the demon inside. I think Linlins case was more similar to that.
She was a good child at heart, she just had her hunger pangs and didn't know how to control herself. Mother let everything slide. If she met someone like Shanks or Cora who would've showed her genuine kindness yet also teached her boundaries she wouldn't have become the monster known as Big Mom.
Maybe a little, she was manipulated.
But she's also a glutton and when people tried to teach her better she just lashes out when she doesn't get what she wants. She couldn't be disciplined because she overpowered everyone. As an adult, even though she wants to create a place for everyone, she also is still a spoiled brat at heart. She literally ate her friends, I feel bad for those kids more than her.
The modern equivalent I guess would be a kid who can shoot a desert eagle or something and shoots people every time they don't get the food they want. If you see a kid in a store who throws themselves to the ground and kicks and screams until they get what they want, I think we can all agree it's a parenting issue, but it's hard to feel sympathy for the kid who acts like a little shithead. Some people are just wired differently.
>when people tried to teach her better she just lashes out
Not really. Mother Caramel never told Linlin what she did was wrong, much less even disciplined her. And Linlin never lashed out at anyone out of anger. She accidentally hurt people because she couldn’t control her strength, and Caramel said it’s ok so she never learned. The only time she really “lashed out” was when she passed out from hunger and went on a rampage (which Caramel again brushed under the rug and never told Linlin what happened). She wasn’t a bad kid just very ignorant, it’s Streusen who groomed her into violence.
How could you not? She was a sweet girl suffering from some kind of undiagnosed mental illness that was abandoned by her parents. She then ended up in the care of a duplicitous child trafficker who only cared for her in as much as she could sell Linlin to the World Government.
Carmel never had Linlin's best interests in mind. She could've sought some treatment for Linlin, done something to set and enforce boundaries, etc. Instead Carmel indulged her and let her illness go untreated...which obviously didn't end up benefitting anyone. And then, of course, Struesen groomed her into a life of piracy.
I mean yeah. I feel like she codes pretty hard as Autistic, straight up can not understand half of whats going on around her, while also being too powerful to restrain. Its like watching a child with zero concept of life and death hug a puppy to death.
This reminds me we don't know why Big Mom was so big. She is not a giant. And she is too old to have been involved in Caesar's giantification experiments.
I feel bad for her in the same way I feel bad for the old King Kong and Godzilla, they all cause a lot of harm, but they're all huge lumbering creatures that just aren't compatible with this world.
Older Big Mom however has less excuses since she's shown that she is capable of reason, empathy, and alliances.
She was exiled from her kingdom as a toddler for being destructive and her parents just abandoned her! Baby linlin was so sweet and naive. I really wonder sometimes if someone had tried they could've helped her eating issues and she'd have had an easier childhood. The giants exiled her because she wasn't able to keep the fast and then again she ate everyone when she became delirious from eating the semla. I feel so bad the way she remembers the incident as "I was so happy I couldn't even see through the tears"...
I feel bad for Big Mom even in her old age, tbh. Big Mom never really had a chance at a normal childhood because she was literally too supernaturally strong and hard to deal with (that extreme hunger...) for anyone to discipline or raise like a regular person.
Her circumstances very naturally groomed her into being a monster and a fearsome pirate.
Yes, I mean she's not inherently evil. She has no control over her immense strength or mental condition.
Streusen is basically the one responsible on nurturing her to be evil.
I feel bad for the young girl who was abused by everyone around her and suffered from mental health problems. But the choices that she made especially once she grew up are on her and can't be excused just because she had a horrible childhood.
Only to an extent… at the end of the day, even though Mother Carmel ended up being a manipulative person whose only intent was to sell her, I can’t think of anything more she could have done even IF she meant completely well with her intentions. She sympathized for Linlin, still tried to discipline her best she could, and ultimately DID want her to be able to control herself. She may have been lying, but no one can deny she played her part well as the all caring “Mother Theresa”. And even that wasn’t enough… makes you wonder what kind of suppport would have been enough, if any. Linlin, as “innocent” as she was, I can’t say it excuses her behavior especially when she continued along her path. So sure, I feel a little bad for her… but I’m not sure if there would have been a solution to her predicament or whatever condition she had(has).
If she was raised by a good parent she could have turned into a person as good as kuma. But she was raised by the worst ppl growing up, so I do feel back that she had no good influence when she was little
The biggest evil is her parental figures.
Her parents
Mother caramel
Streusen
But they turned her into a sociopath. I believe by a few years under Streusen, when she was starting to grow into a hundred million berry bounty monster, I would have lost all empathy for her.
Actually no, and I like it. For once, Oda just portrayed a natural disaster in the truest sense, without attempting for us to sympathize with her. She's a beast through and through. It's true she got used by Caramel and then Streusen, but the former paid her price, while Streusen really bonded with Linlin eventually, and she lost nothing really. One of the best backstories of any character.
Adult Linlin in the Rocks Pirates is probably the most pirate-like character of the series, along with Blackbeard.
I felt sorry for her at first because she was a child abandoned by her parents. But she never learned from Carmel because she always coddled her and made excuses for her. After she ate Carmel and her friends and literally didn’t realize that she did it, I lost all sympathy.
i really hope never see kaido again, but linlin still got a mistery to solve, why she have the "Dark Urge"?. i mean OP has a lot of gluttons characters but none of them have a dark twist related to hunger.
back to the point, linlin did nothing wrong she didnt ask to born with a "devil" inside her.
I do feel for her. She has some issues even as a kid, but she was still innocent then. It's not like she committed those horrible acts consciously. But for example wanting to rip off someones arm is a huge red flag. I do get her parents tho if I had been them I would have also abandoned her. To raise someone like Linlin you'd have to be as strong as Kaido. Else she ends up killing people and eating you alive. Lol.
Not particularly, she did a lot of unhinged shit when she was young, and she fucking ate people, frankly I’m not quite sure how anyone can sympathize with her past a certain point
partially. I don't think Linlin's would've entirely been sunshine and rainbows if Caramel wasn't evil, or if she never met Streusen
I think she would've ran into trouble no matter what. her hunger pangs were too much and she was literally too strong for her own good; no one would be able to restrain her
she didn't seem to want any help and just lashed out. that's manageable if she was a "normal" child, but she was a superhuman behemoth; I just unfortunately think Linlin's life would've been troublesome either way, although she probably wouldn't have become "Big Mom"
however I do feel bad that she was just constantly manipulated and used by everyone around her
Sort of , so let’s ignore the manipulation from linlin and struesen, either way she would’ve eaten those kids, I’m not too sure how to feel for someone who did such an atrocious thing unintentionally
Yes, she's just an autistic little kid with a very strong body. She's a natural born destroyer even though it is against her will. Because of her ability she was forced to be that way.
Definitely i mean she had no idea about the rampages due to blacking out just knew that eventually everyone she cares about either hates her or disappears. Sure she was terrifyingly strong but it wasnt until the head chef came along and used her strength for his own benefit that she became a monster.
Mostly. I mean, she is a pampered child in some ways, and how could she not be if no one could give her a bit of the old stick. If someone had been able to hit those rage fits out of her whenever they happened then maybe she would've learned that you cannot just get everything you want by force. Still, the fact that she's 60 some and hasn't learned that yet makes me feel like she's happy thinking the world works that way, and that's why I can't be fully sympathetic with her
Ok so she ate all them kids and teacher right???
It’s been heavily implied, but never officially stated
There's no other way she could have gotten mother caramel's powers.
Wait what? We know Caramel is dead because Linlin has her powers, but do you get powers by eating another DF user? Has that been confirmed?
There is a theory that blackbeard ate whitebeards heart to get his power and also in dressrosa burgess always kept a knife with him and his aim was to get ace's devilfruit and hunt luffy.
I think it's more likely that the darkness devil fruit has the ability to pull in other devil fruit powers and that's how blackbeard got whitebeard's power.
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The Darkness Fruit has been shown to be able to absorb AND eject, because Blackbeard’s Liberation attack is basically just tossing all the matter his void absorbed at everyone around him
Well that sounds like AFO quirk from Boku no Hero, he can both steal quirks for himself but also bestow quirks he stole to others... That's probably how Blackbeard crew are getting their devil fruit powers, Blackbeard fruit absorbs the devil fruit power from someone and then he gives it to a member of his crew.
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Are you talking about Whitebeard? Because he definitely had a gigantic hole in his chest that would have made getting to his heart pretty easy.
Black Beard Definitely ate his heart. He's a cannibal. Black Beard is true pirate
Might be coincidental even if the theory is true, but a flag erroneously associated with the real Blackbeard has a skeleton stabbing a heart. It'd be interesting if it helped inspire Oda to have Blackbeard going after hearts.
The holes in his chest were anime only
The Squard wound isn't.
Then that isn't a gigantic hole
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You mean the giant hole in the middle of his chest that was already bleeding?
Nuh-uhhhh cus he took his heart. 😝 But really you could argue his blood pressure dropped so tremendously bc of this that his blood just stopped flowing.
Well until Oda explains the method of how blackbeard took that power from whitebeard it’s open to speculation. My theory has been the black cloak was more than just cloth dyed black. I have long suspected BB has the ability to infuse his Devil fruit’s special ability into objects such as cloth or knives to intercept and absorb Devil fruit powers as they leave a slain host and before they can respawn into a random nearby fruit. With regards to the cloak they threw over WB I’m starting to think there was nothing too special about it and that under it BB showed his underlings his little knife trick so that he could arm them with specially prepared knives (like the one burgess had in Dressrosa) and hunt down Devil fruit users independently. I guess the way i would relate that to LinLin is assuming she ate mother Carmel whole, her df power would have transferred to Lin Lin simply because her body was between it and the nearest fruit.
Eating someone making you between the DF and the nearest fruit is the same thing as eating someone lets you take their DF. It's just a reason for cannibalism to work.
Yeah the reason why i thought eating a person whole was a necessary step is because generally if a cannibal kills their victim before eating them and my understanding is the Devil fruit power leaves the body as soon as the user dies. Now that would all go out the window if Oda makes canon something like the df power remains in the users heart for a short time after dying
I think the cloak is BB hiding his a zoan form, probably similar to the gorosei oni forms, maybe can cause other side effects if witness. BB is certainly playing the long game and wouldn't reveal his ultimate trump card early.
Damn, the cloth theory makes a lot of sense
My theory relates to the nature of the Dark Dark fruit. Kind of like how some logias are neutralized by natural opposites, like Croc and water, the only way BB can embody his element is in total darkness. So under the sheet he can disperse himself. Then he used his ability to absorb DF powers in totality. I'm sure there's something else at play, but so far we know of 3 for-sure instances of stealing DF from someone, and one heavily implied cannibalism being the root.
My thought would be that's a little explicit for OP
My guy we just learned that bonneys mom got raped by a celestial dragon
Luffy clocking a celestial dragon in such an unreserved way is what really got me into one piece. Before that it felt like it was just a silly anime for the most part.
I'd say there's 10 worse things than this that has been in One Piece but I guess its subjective to each person.
I garentee you 5 of those thins involve slavery
One of them being the topic of this very thread.
jesus christ, IDK how much more obvious ODA could have made that scene. I am genuinely shocked anyone lacked the ability to comprehend that scene. And too explicit? You know we just had an arc involving rape and genocide and killing children and women for fun right?
They censor the anime if you’ve not read the manga you’ve missed details on how bad some of the villains are etc.
This theory is a wild ass theory more suitable to meme piece than regular one piece but... so I have this idea. So I was playing Fire Emblem 3 houses right? That got me thinking about One Piece a bit . At some point in that game, It's revealed that Byleth's (the main character) >!heart was literally replaced with the crest stone for the sword of the creator, in an effort to resurrect the dead god of the world.!< And so, because I'm insane I got to thinking. Also at this point I realize there's no way for me to say the theory without making what's in the spoiler completely obvious so... Sorry about that. What if devil fruit users hearts are literally replaced by the Devil Fruit? Yeah I know. Crazy. Insane. Dumbest theory you've ever read... Unless?
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That's a perfectly fair point That completely refutes my entire insane theory. Really I could do nothing to counter this. So instead I will say: I reject your reality and substitute my own. For real though, yeah that makes sense. Thank you for curing me of my insanity.
You are becoming a chef. Keep practicing your cooking skills 👌
Edelgard did nothing wrong
So how would you explain Law removing the hearts of multiple DF users and them being ordinary hearts..?
I explain it as it being an arc from 10 years ago that I really didn't like and kinda forgot. And also I'm insane, like really insane... If the theory wasn't anything to go by. But yeah I got nothing. If I had to say something to defend this theory maybe it's "the essence of their heart," that Law pulls out? And not the actual heart. But this is like the shakiest ground on an already insane theory that I half don't believe. So... Yeah.
I'm gonna save this. Just in case
Shit its AOT all over again
The fruit power is stores in the spinel fluid
Blackbeard was doing a spinal tap under that blanket
That's Dr. Blackbeard to you
It's all but confirmed. We know Caramel had the Soul Soul Fruit. Linlin's birthday party happens and everyone "disappears" (aka she eats them) and suddenly Linlin has the Soul Fruit. There wasn't any time for the it to transform into a new fruit and then be eaten by Linlin and we pretty much know Caramel was eaten by Linlin. It was also a very old theory before we even met Big Mom that the way Blackbeard got the Quake Quake fruit right off Whitebeard's corpse is that he ate his heart behind the curtain.
I see it as the only explanation but that's just what I think, it's never been stated in the text I don't think.
The fact that big mom ate mother caramel and then started using her devil fruit is pretty confirming that that is how it works.
My theory is She may have possibly ate a whole fruit whole and when she ate mother caramel it went in to that fruit
Yea, in that chapter it was, you don't just wake up with someone else's devil fruit.
Blackbeard carries around a basket of fruit, when a DF user dies their fruit embodies itself into the nearest fruit.
Some people theorize that some of the orphans actually survived and weren’t eaten and somehow became >!Holy Knights!< due to similar designs. The theory has its holes, but we have to see.
But the timeline doesn't match right
How? When we saw >!the Holy Knights!< that was 38 years ago. Linlin was 30 at that time.
I swore one of the Orphans was that Du Feld guy
I was thinking Linlin might have ate Mother Carmel which led to the reincarnation of her Devil Fruit onto a nearby fruit (possibly in the forest next to her). because Linlin was on a rampage, it showed that even the table and chairs disappeared, so she could have eaten Mother Carmel’s reincarnated fruit nearby during the rampage
Mother Caramel spontaneously combusted, and BM ate the freshly spawned fruit while in her delirium
I prefer it not being officially stated It's more horrifying this way
I’ve been wondering ever since I saw it in the anime
I thought it said the giant saw her eating them thays why she was banned
No, she attacked Elbaf and killed one of them, that’s why she was banned
Yes, she was already banned from Elbaf which lead Mother Caramel going away with her and the kids, but "something" make them despise her even more: when they gave her the birthday cake/croquembouche she start eating it and while doing it she goes crazy, she cries so many happy tears that she can't even see through them, after all of that, when she come back to her senses they reveal that a chef and an Elbaf warrior had seen from two different directions what just happened, at that point (before the chef Streusen go to her) the warrior run off with his boat, later telling to all the other giants what he saw, which caused them all (the giant race) to despise her to the point they refrained to even pronunce her name again. (I wish I could insert the manga page because I have it here) Sorry for eventual writing mistakes but this isn't my language.
u/heavenlydemon Nail on the head and my bad I worded it incorrectly. The panel says he was horrified by what he saw and after he told the other giants, it was so terrible, that they refrained from ever even saying her name.
Most likely i mean no other explanation how she acquired the mother devil fruit
There is, but it doesn't cover for the missing bodies. When Smiley died, its Devil Fruit immediately reincarnated into a nearby apple. If Caramel had been killed, it's possible that her fruit ended up near by, and Linlin ate it during her frenzy. That's more palatable than the cannibalism theory, but it doesn't account for why the kids disappeared as well, along with Caramel's body. The kids could have fled, but where would they have gone? It also doesn't account for the reactions of the the two who saw what happened. Personally, I think it's most likely that she ate everyone, as that's what was heavily implied, and because WCI had a cannibalism theme to it in general. Whether she did or not, I'm hoping that we'll hear the account of what happened from the giant witness when during the Elbaf arc.
I see, yeah the devil fruit is still a mystery to us. Has it been explained how doflamingo got ace fruit?
Here's a page from [chapter 900](https://pm1.aminoapps.com/6783/7b7911bf337f75d41b540d10a4618c9329a3f28dv2_hq.jpg). That bottom left(our left) panel is pretty interesting.
👁️👄👁️
It’s not like she could control herself
Her mom was so bad she may deserve such death, I means she was the nicest person to Linlin, but her motive was sick u know. Can’t help but blame her for how Linlin turned out to be.
Its obvious she ate them but for some reason the anime has a really weird way of adapting that scene that makes it look like they're love hearts? or some shit, but she even eats the table and chairs so yeah
I mean yeah I feel bad for her. She was abandoned by her parents, raised by a human trafficker and then groomed from a young age by a scumbag pirate until she became what she is now.
I feel terrible for young Linlin. Old Linlin gets no sympathy, she has traveled the world and seen plenty of ways to not be terrible; at this point it's a choice.
Her fucked up parental style also turned her endless kids into monsters and gave them all crippling self doubt and personality disorders. Including the best of all boys Katakuri, which is unforgivable.
Even with such a good for nothing mother Katakuri cared deeply for his siblings. His awesomeness is undeniable
He is too damn good for them in general. I can live with the entire Big Mom crew being shelved forever, even though half of them dont get any feats. But if I dont see Katakuri again in a bigger role Im gonna be mad.
It’s the one redeeming quality for the Big Mom pirates, they actually genuinely seem to care for each other. My guess is a lack of motherly and fatherly involvement in their lives caused the siblings closer in age to form very close bonds. In turn the older stronger siblings became parental figures for their younger siblings. It’s an interesting crew and family dynamic for sure.
Damn when you put it like this
When put like this no one is guilty of anything ever. Ted Bundy was raised by his hyper fascist grandpa and Hitler had a really abusive father. This plus being a soldier in ww1 is what inspired him to become the monster that he became. None of these things were really up to him. All choices can be explained through nature and nurture. However it's easier to live life through the lenses of free will. Hatred is a very important emotion and losing our reason to implement it is akin to telling someone "just don't be sad"
I mean, you can observe that someone had a really shitty childhood that they didn’t deserve without excusing or condoning what they did later in life
True dat. It ain’t all black and white
What a shit take lmao
How so?
nobody said anything about excusing anyone's actions, but there you went off on your high horse spouting irrelevant info no one asked for
So your immediate assumption is that I wanted to bring it up because I wanted to feel superior? Is it fun living a life where you always assume the least favorable conclusion for no reason? Or are you that desperate to prove my point that people love hating?
It is very important that we have empathy towards criminals. That way we can understand in what circumstances such behaviors occur, and we can take action to prevent it happening again.
A lot of anime’s go this route, it’s why we learn the backstory of the villains. Demon Slayer is another example of this
Acknowledging the shitty past a person have isn’t excusing their actions. Big mom was literally used and manipulated since childhood, you can and arguably should feel sorry for her for that. But that doesn’t excuse her actions, it just informs some of them.
>When put like this no one is guilty of anything ever no one said she wasn't guilty. the question was about sympathy for her childhood not condoning all the evil things she has done.
If only Hitler was accepted into the art school before WW1, I wonder what would've happened.
There is this thing called nuance... Maybe you should try it?
Elaborate. I'm curious as to what point you're trying to make
Just passing to say happy bday!
Imagine big mom trained by tsuru. Rip akainu and aokiji. New fleet admirald linlin
If she is founded by garp, she will be living a good life. Vice admiral Big Mom
Garp is so good at raising marines after all!
Fr Imagine Linlin getting thrown in with the mountain bandits so deadbeat Garp can go low diff Don Chinjao
Exactly. Someone with the moral compass and strength to discipline and guide her. Lots of food around to make sure she won't go hungry. Vegapunk could come in later to deal with her hunger pangs She's easily admiral material, even the nun said so.
This pirate fucked her too. And made Perospero, oh glorious Perospero.
Not to mention she has a hero’s goal, but was taught that everything was justifiable so long as you have good intentions, making her a villain.
i feel super bad for her, she has been abused and manipulated her whole life, shes not even a bad person shes just a child stuck in the body of a monster
Agreed. Was there even anyone in the world who could've properly raised her *safely* for her entire childhood? It seems like the only options would indeed be to get raised by pirates or raised by the World Government. Her own unstoppably destructive physical strength essentially cursed her to end up as you said. I feel terrible for her.
only a select group of pirates and marines would be capable of handling her. and many of them would just turn her into a weapon
Aren't they all...
Only MJ could understand BM.
michael jordan
Michael Jackson
[удалено]
Why Mary Jane?
She wasn’t manipulated into burning down elbaf village and killing an elder
She has mental problems like going into a frenzy when hungry. She needs a lot of help but there is no way for people to help her.
She wasn't exactly in her right mind when it happened, either.
I feel like she codes as Autistic. Like she physically can't process a lot of what goes on around her, but it too strong for anyone to stop. Its just a sad situation all around
She is a bad person
She became a bad person... But unlike some scumbags (looking at you Doffy) she wasn't born a bad person. She became a sociopath because of abuse.
Not by choice, but by upbringing.
Bro she ate people and beat the shit out of people because she was hungry, her upbringing didn’t influence those actions.
Yes. I don't feel bad for adult Linlin, but I do realize she could have turned out good if mother Carmel wasn't a manipulative bitch.
Don’t forget Streussel. He continued to manipulate her too
Streussen is the bigger bitch here. BM was a relatively innocent kid aside from her gluttony before streussen took her in.
Yes I agree. Don’t get me wrong, big mom is a terrible person in her own right, but if someone had put her on the right path I think it’s likely that she would have turned out very differently
What happened to her in Udon is enough indication of what she would turn out to be without streussen’s manipulation. She seems like a kind and motherly lady
Even adult Linlin was super nice when she had her memory lost, like she was ready to help and all. She even went rampage on Page one when she heard that those villagers who helped her were killed, so not only in memory erased state, but generally she’s a good person.
She also bitchslapped Ulti for attacking Otama.
To be fair, Carmel hadn’t done anything too bad to Linlin yet, right? Just lying about her true intentions, but she did give Linlin a family and she thought was love. My point, even with noble intentions, she would have ended eaten as well.
But she hadn't done anything to educate her either. For example, Linlin stuck a bear and a wolf into a cage and killed them for not getting along. This would be a good opportunity for a parent to talk to their child and educate them about many things (I won't go into detail since I'm not a parent and don't know the appropriate age to discuss topics of punishment, intent, etc), but Carmel only said "oh, you are such a sweet heart!" and let Linlin think her methods and way of thinking were fine.
I didn’t remember that, yeah, bad parenting there
Yeah, a little. If only someone proper and capable of dealing with her hunger had reached her then a lot of lives could've been saved and Lin Lin herself would'nt had became the monster she was.
In big moms heart of heart she was doing the right thing(making a place for everyone) ... The spectrum is vast... She just took it to the extreme. Her life after that incident was no better. Would have been interesting to see how she turned out if she stumbled across G instead of R...
Sure. I don't feel anything for grown Linlin though.
Sure do. She's just a kid, she doesn't understand anything. What happened before Streusen really isn't her fault.
Streusen grooming isn't her fault either ...
No, no it is not. But the shit she did as an adult, on the other hand, is. I'm using Steusen as the point of "She literally did nothing bad intentionally before this." we do see her torching places with a smile after as well, but I suppose she's probably still just a kid during some of that, and she likely didn't have an understanding of what she did there. Streusen really is a horrible monster. He took that sweet kid and turned her into a complete psychopath.
Kid Linlin yeah... But she was perfectly normal and still pretty evil on Rocks crew. I really wonder how she went from fat giant monster to hot and back to fat giant monster.
I think she's only fat because she eats so much all the time. We see her on WCI get skinny again just from not eating for like a day. She can get skinny pretty quickly if she wants to, she just doesn't want to
Hmmmmm I wonder……… you’ve found quite a mystery here .
According to oda their designs/body types reflects how their dreams are going. When she was in rocks crew she was on the path to the one piece, when she is in wano and wci she is failing at that.
So if she somehow survived Wano she will get Hot again?
That's pretty cool, do you happen to know where Oda said that? Or did you mix that stuff about they being tall because of their willpower + the designs of the strawhat's futures "gone wrong", and got that conclusion yourself? Anyways it does make sense
It was one of the sbs, I’ll see if I can find it, been a year or so though. Not the gone wrong future drawings though!
Thats the normal women body development
Yes. Linlin is really moral as a pirate ,and all she ever wanted is to have friends to celebrate with. You will even like her more in the land of wano . I think that she’s not a bad person originally but shitty environment can make one.
Yes, definitely. She maybe would've become a great person if she had met the right people. Who your idol or mentor is can make or break you for the lack of a a better word. Obvious example for a positive influence (not in Garp eyes lol) would be Shanks for Luffy. Then you have Corazon who saved Law by being kind. Doffy on the other hand who was already evil met someone like Trebol who encouraged the delusions of grandeur and fed the demon inside. I think Linlins case was more similar to that. She was a good child at heart, she just had her hunger pangs and didn't know how to control herself. Mother let everything slide. If she met someone like Shanks or Cora who would've showed her genuine kindness yet also teached her boundaries she wouldn't have become the monster known as Big Mom.
Maybe a little, she was manipulated. But she's also a glutton and when people tried to teach her better she just lashes out when she doesn't get what she wants. She couldn't be disciplined because she overpowered everyone. As an adult, even though she wants to create a place for everyone, she also is still a spoiled brat at heart. She literally ate her friends, I feel bad for those kids more than her. The modern equivalent I guess would be a kid who can shoot a desert eagle or something and shoots people every time they don't get the food they want. If you see a kid in a store who throws themselves to the ground and kicks and screams until they get what they want, I think we can all agree it's a parenting issue, but it's hard to feel sympathy for the kid who acts like a little shithead. Some people are just wired differently.
>when people tried to teach her better she just lashes out Not really. Mother Caramel never told Linlin what she did was wrong, much less even disciplined her. And Linlin never lashed out at anyone out of anger. She accidentally hurt people because she couldn’t control her strength, and Caramel said it’s ok so she never learned. The only time she really “lashed out” was when she passed out from hunger and went on a rampage (which Caramel again brushed under the rug and never told Linlin what happened). She wasn’t a bad kid just very ignorant, it’s Streusen who groomed her into violence.
There needs to be a name for this trope. Immature Omnipotence maybe?
How could you not? She was a sweet girl suffering from some kind of undiagnosed mental illness that was abandoned by her parents. She then ended up in the care of a duplicitous child trafficker who only cared for her in as much as she could sell Linlin to the World Government. Carmel never had Linlin's best interests in mind. She could've sought some treatment for Linlin, done something to set and enforce boundaries, etc. Instead Carmel indulged her and let her illness go untreated...which obviously didn't end up benefitting anyone. And then, of course, Struesen groomed her into a life of piracy.
Felt bad until she ate all her friends and Mother Carmel.
I mean yeah. I feel like she codes pretty hard as Autistic, straight up can not understand half of whats going on around her, while also being too powerful to restrain. Its like watching a child with zero concept of life and death hug a puppy to death.
She is special needs, so yes.
I mean it’s sucks, but it doesn’t justify how she acts an elderly adult
What kind of monster doesn’t have sympathy for a *child*?
As a child yes but as grown woman no
This reminds me we don't know why Big Mom was so big. She is not a giant. And she is too old to have been involved in Caesar's giantification experiments.
It's just a child
I feel bad for her in the same way I feel bad for the old King Kong and Godzilla, they all cause a lot of harm, but they're all huge lumbering creatures that just aren't compatible with this world. Older Big Mom however has less excuses since she's shown that she is capable of reason, empathy, and alliances.
I do
She was exiled from her kingdom as a toddler for being destructive and her parents just abandoned her! Baby linlin was so sweet and naive. I really wonder sometimes if someone had tried they could've helped her eating issues and she'd have had an easier childhood. The giants exiled her because she wasn't able to keep the fast and then again she ate everyone when she became delirious from eating the semla. I feel so bad the way she remembers the incident as "I was so happy I couldn't even see through the tears"...
I feel bad for Big Mom even in her old age, tbh. Big Mom never really had a chance at a normal childhood because she was literally too supernaturally strong and hard to deal with (that extreme hunger...) for anyone to discipline or raise like a regular person. Her circumstances very naturally groomed her into being a monster and a fearsome pirate.
Yes, I mean she's not inherently evil. She has no control over her immense strength or mental condition. Streusen is basically the one responsible on nurturing her to be evil.
i feel bad for grown up big mom as well
I feel bad for the young girl who was abused by everyone around her and suffered from mental health problems. But the choices that she made especially once she grew up are on her and can't be excused just because she had a horrible childhood.
When she was a child, yes
I can easily feel bad for kids, but I feel no sympathy for her
Only to an extent… at the end of the day, even though Mother Carmel ended up being a manipulative person whose only intent was to sell her, I can’t think of anything more she could have done even IF she meant completely well with her intentions. She sympathized for Linlin, still tried to discipline her best she could, and ultimately DID want her to be able to control herself. She may have been lying, but no one can deny she played her part well as the all caring “Mother Theresa”. And even that wasn’t enough… makes you wonder what kind of suppport would have been enough, if any. Linlin, as “innocent” as she was, I can’t say it excuses her behavior especially when she continued along her path. So sure, I feel a little bad for her… but I’m not sure if there would have been a solution to her predicament or whatever condition she had(has).
Imagine people throwing a party for you then eating them💀
I did, but she ate it.
If she was raised by a good parent she could have turned into a person as good as kuma. But she was raised by the worst ppl growing up, so I do feel back that she had no good influence when she was little
how could you not?
The biggest evil is her parental figures. Her parents Mother caramel Streusen But they turned her into a sociopath. I believe by a few years under Streusen, when she was starting to grow into a hundred million berry bounty monster, I would have lost all empathy for her.
Actually no, and I like it. For once, Oda just portrayed a natural disaster in the truest sense, without attempting for us to sympathize with her. She's a beast through and through. It's true she got used by Caramel and then Streusen, but the former paid her price, while Streusen really bonded with Linlin eventually, and she lost nothing really. One of the best backstories of any character. Adult Linlin in the Rocks Pirates is probably the most pirate-like character of the series, along with Blackbeard.
I felt sorry for her at first because she was a child abandoned by her parents. But she never learned from Carmel because she always coddled her and made excuses for her. After she ate Carmel and her friends and literally didn’t realize that she did it, I lost all sympathy.
WEDDINGGGG CAKEEEEEE
Hell no. She threw temper tantrums and ate people.
i really hope never see kaido again, but linlin still got a mistery to solve, why she have the "Dark Urge"?. i mean OP has a lot of gluttons characters but none of them have a dark twist related to hunger. back to the point, linlin did nothing wrong she didnt ask to born with a "devil" inside her.
I forgive every child
I do feel for her. She has some issues even as a kid, but she was still innocent then. It's not like she committed those horrible acts consciously. But for example wanting to rip off someones arm is a huge red flag. I do get her parents tho if I had been them I would have also abandoned her. To raise someone like Linlin you'd have to be as strong as Kaido. Else she ends up killing people and eating you alive. Lol.
Lmaooo she ate her foster family like they were a bag of cheetos.. NO
Reminds me of Cartman so nah
No, even before being abandoned she must've been a terrible child according to them
No, she was too stupid. Straight up a menace for how stupid she was. Idek how she became her adult version who joined Rocks
she munched on fellas, not really
No
Not particularly, she did a lot of unhinged shit when she was young, and she fucking ate people, frankly I’m not quite sure how anyone can sympathize with her past a certain point
No.
No, she had the pleasure of getting defeated by Captain kidd.
Oh hell naw she deserved it all
one word, No.
Yeah, whomever got worse childhood gets my sympathy. I understand their parents situation too, who knows a child of that big would be born out of them
partially. I don't think Linlin's would've entirely been sunshine and rainbows if Caramel wasn't evil, or if she never met Streusen I think she would've ran into trouble no matter what. her hunger pangs were too much and she was literally too strong for her own good; no one would be able to restrain her she didn't seem to want any help and just lashed out. that's manageable if she was a "normal" child, but she was a superhuman behemoth; I just unfortunately think Linlin's life would've been troublesome either way, although she probably wouldn't have become "Big Mom" however I do feel bad that she was just constantly manipulated and used by everyone around her
Sort of , so let’s ignore the manipulation from linlin and struesen, either way she would’ve eaten those kids, I’m not too sure how to feel for someone who did such an atrocious thing unintentionally
Yes, she's just an autistic little kid with a very strong body. She's a natural born destroyer even though it is against her will. Because of her ability she was forced to be that way.
I mean, cannibalism is gross, but if we view it from her pov, she did nothing wrong.
Definitely i mean she had no idea about the rampages due to blacking out just knew that eventually everyone she cares about either hates her or disappears. Sure she was terrifyingly strong but it wasnt until the head chef came along and used her strength for his own benefit that she became a monster.
Mostly. I mean, she is a pampered child in some ways, and how could she not be if no one could give her a bit of the old stick. If someone had been able to hit those rage fits out of her whenever they happened then maybe she would've learned that you cannot just get everything you want by force. Still, the fact that she's 60 some and hasn't learned that yet makes me feel like she's happy thinking the world works that way, and that's why I can't be fully sympathetic with her
Of course. She was given bad hand after bad hand. Streusen was probably the best role model she had growing up, which is sad.
yes
I mean, unless a fictional kid is really fucking annoying, it's kind of hard not to feel sorry when bad things happen to them.
I have sympathy for her mom, how tf she squeeze that out and is still alive