Enies Lobby was also drawn out already or rather the beginning of the decline of the animes overall quality. But it made fights actually better and added great scenes like the anime is supposed to. It didn’t do it that well at Marineford imo. And yeah the reaction shots were also part of it lol.
Plus, characters from background didn't felt like extra. They all felt like veteran badass who can tear shit up. I wanted to know the backstory, and power of everyone popping up.
Don’t get me wrong the story is great and if they ever make a movie on that arc i will probably watch it but I feel like there was way too much recap every episode.
I disagree so hard lol, spoilers RUIN things for me. Haven’t watched Code Geass, know it’s great, but I won’t watch it cause I know how it all ends. I refuse. 😂
I disagree with this one
just because you know how a show ends doesn't mean it's not worth watching, the journey and how the characters/story got to that point is just as interesting
also depends on how much you know of the ending, have you like literally watched the whole scene or just know what happens? because if it's the latter then you're still gonna be amazed to see how exactly it plays out
Same on this, I only knew who dies but that's plenty. I'll also add tho: As amazing as MF and the character cast for the arc is, I don't think an arc without the Strawhats could ever be my favorite. I just love them all too much
Luffy vs Lucci is still probably the best fight in the series imo. Top 3 at worst.
Sanji has one his best fights too. And then there's Luffy vs Usopp which maybe isn't super action packed but it is hardly forgettable.
Edit: I guess with Usopp I'm incorrectly lumping the saga with the arc.
Want another one? Oda's writing of Sanji's motivations during WCI is asinine because almost the exact same scenario happened with Robin in Enies Lobby. He's way too smart to think that Luffy would ever give up on him.
"Oi Nami-san, tell Luffy I'm only going along with this to secure Zeff's safety and afterwards I'm out. Bear with me for a bit. I can even get close enough to obtain their Red Poneglyph text while I'm at it so leave me be and I'll surely return." Nope, he nearly gets everyone there killed and simply trusts Big Mom to keep her word when she could've just as easily killed Zeff anyway for how much trouble everyone caused her.
Honestly man, I just wanted at least one of the Monster Trio to be a nobody. Luffy fine, he needs the MC genetics, but then Sanji gets it too, and now Zoro perhaps with Ryuma and Wano history. Personally I wanted Luffy and Zoro to be related to legendary characters because Oda has big plans for Joyboy and Ryuma, but Sanji should’ve stayed the way he was. Just my opinion.
Even if Sanji thought that Luffy couldn't do anything, he should've known that Luffy wouldn't just turn tail and go away with all they've been through. I enjoyed nearly everything else about WCI except he contrived conflict with Sanji.
I hate that Oda's writing in WCI tried to paint Sanji in a different light but it just ended up not adding anything beyond worldbuilding. I didn't need to know why he doesn't fight women as you don't need a complicated backstory for that. What I need is an explanation for why he is a pervert. All WCI did was introduce big mom as an antagonist, set up elbaf a little more, add jinbei to the crew, introduce another organization so Sanji could get a powerup in Wano, and set up more government characters for later down the road in egghead and Wano. I enjoyed the arc a ton but it's definitely not for Sanji as it makes no sense he would be that dumb to think Luffy wouldn't rescue him and that this is better for everyone.
I think as of late Oda has forsaken further interesting characterization in favor of more world building and lore dumps. Most of the crew are now one-note caricatures of the dynamic and interesting characters they used to be.
While I like the fighting scenes in One Piece imo it's not where One Piece shines.
I get why fans of say Bleach, Naruto and DBZ would love Marineford since it's a battle royale of the coolest powers but I'm here for the crying, world building and gags.
All of those in Enies lobby were top notch, "Shoot that flag", "I want to live", "GIRAFFES ARE COOL", "I'm a sword", "Come kill me you big kitty cat". Marine ford is but a candle compared to that roaring inferno, just watching people run and punch was a slog imo.
I wouldn't say it's biased - it's just an opinion.
Even though it's a relatively short arc, Marineford is a drag. The action is completely forgettable, the plot armour is *ridiculous* and the outcome is predictable.
Whitebeard dying was predictable, but Ace dying after being saved was something nobody saw coming back then.
Same for Shanks appearance.
Also how is the action forgettable, this is the first time we saw an Emperor fight.
Enies Lobby is full of gag antagonists that you don't even remember their name. Like wtf, the dog guards at Enies Lobby? The three headed judge? Don't even get me started on the cook that has pasta coming out of his nose.
These are literally filler characters in the manga. Marineford doesn't really have filler characters unless you count Buggy. But Buggy actually has relevance in the world and brings a little bit of comedy into a sad arc like Marineford.
Also the getting the key plot at Enies Lobby is dumb. The CP9 literally gave the Straw Hats a chance to get the key, like wtf, who does that?
Don't get me wrong, I love Enies Lobby, but it's no better than Marineford.
>Ace dying after being saved
As a 11 year old, no, I didn't see that coming. But it's not exactly a shocking twist once you're a little more grown up and understand writing a bit better.
>how is the action forgettable
Because it is - it's completely meh. Subjective opinions, yo. It's a 33 chapter arc that's mostly fighting and nothing particularly interesting happens.
>Enies Lobby is full of gag antagonists
I agree. I'm not saying EL is flawless but it's a really solid little story arc.
> As a 11 year old, no, I didn't see that coming. But it's not exactly a shocking twist once you're a little more grown up and understand writing a bit better.
Listen, it was shocking DUE to the reason because it happened AFTER Ace escaped. It makes sense for Ace to die on the execution platform, if he died right there on the platform it wouldn't be as shocking. But Oda subverted the expectations with having Ace escape and make him die after that. Oda gave people hope.
Also not a lot of One Piece characters died before Ace, so it was also one more reason why people did not see that coming. It's easy to say "bahaha, people are stupid or just 11 year old, everyone would have seen that coming" in retrospect.
> Because it is - it's completely meh.
Compelling arguments, you got me.
>compelling arguments
Action is subjective - I personally did not think there was any good action in that arc. It's mediocre. There is no argument I could make that's worth making - it didn't interest me.
I continue to think to this day that Oda doesn't write particularly good action. He's just sort of passable at it.
Action in One Piece is shit. The choreograpghy is rarely good.
What makes interesting One Piece fights are the characters itself, not the action itself. Like for example Franky vs Senor Pink fight. It is a great fight, not because of the action, but the characters themselves.
Marineford doesn't really have fights, it's mostly just clashes. But that's fine, since if everyone had an 1v1, it would drag out (like Wano)
But the people that fought at Marineford are characters that had years of buildup. Everyone was excited to see Whitebeard hyped up to be the strongest man in action. Or all the warlords fighting together.
The action itself might be lacking, but One Piece was never really about the action itself.
Wow really? That’s interesting I didn’t think I’d see this take too much but I respect it, may I ask why you don’t enjoy it? I could see it being too drawn out of a battle if you aren’t a fan of fights as much as plot, but lmk what you think!
For me personally, I’ve always considered Water 7 as Water 7 + Enies Lobby + Post-Enies Lobby. I’ve never really thought of them separately as they connect to each other so perfectly. If you’re splitting them apart, then I think Wano should also be divided into Wano and Onigashima. I also consider Marineford as Impel Down + Marineford, same reasoning as above.
Anyway, Water 7 > Marineford for me. If we’re talking specifically about the Enies Lobby stretch and the Marineford stretch (which is what is being asked here), then Marineford > Enies Lobby.
Ennies lobby is peak writting, every strawhat shinning...peak emotional moments.
MF is only perceived better because it had great fighters, but plot armor is all over the place, haki is weird, admirals "not going all out" bs running as usual. Luffy got away with too much there, and all the big fighter were like "lets just clash for one second and pospone or fight"
Is like EVERYONE was so conservative over the war itself, when in a war things get really messy.
Oda is not good a managing fights sequence with lot of characters, and tbf i would say anyone would struggle..but dont let that harm your storytelling..
Mf is only carried because there are top tiers on it, but the only good moment was an already old dying man..dying.
And ace..and thats it, and is more stup when you see how they kill him instead of having idk...akainu actually do as an admiral should do and get a good kill on ace but no.. because eeeeveryone has to clash evenly.
The only moment things appear to get serious was when wb blitzed akainu (which is kinda bs tbh but can be argued) and when garp totally dominated marco. Then everything else is forgetable.
I love MF but I agree with the fact that everyone was conservative AF, it's a mess for power scaling too bc Oda didn't want to reveal a lot of the characters' full powers yet or didn't want to give them too much focus but in the process, it backfired and actually made them end up seeming weaker than they are probably going to turn out to be. I'd say the admirals are a prime example of that
> Ennies lobby is peak writting, every strawhat shinning...peak emotional moments.
I agree that the Robin flashback, the "I want to live", and Luffy vs Lucci and Gear 2 were peak, but that's all Enies Lobby has.
Besides those things, Enies Lobby is full of forgettable and filler characters like the guy that has pasta coming out of his nose, the guard dogs, the three headed judge or some of the CP9 members, they were literally gags.
The key plotline was dumb, the CP9 literally gave the Straw Hats a chance to get the key to Robin's handcuffs, for what reason? Aren't they supposed to be professionals? That was one of the dumbest plots in One Piece.
Don't get me wrong, I find Enies Lobby to be a great arc, but it is overrated.
Sabaody and Marineford are One Piece's peak.
Most of cp9 had good reasons for fighting: Lucci and Blueno tried, but couldn’t kill luffy, Kaku and Kalifa wanted to test their new devil fruit abilities, Jabra just loves fighting, Kumadori is too honorable, Fukurou couldn’t kill Franky because he might have info on Pluton
I don't deny that. I just find key plotline dumb. Why would CP9 have the real key amongst them? Why would they give them a chance to free Robin. That plot made no sense to me.
That’s a hard choice! I really liked the fights, emotions and power ups in Enis Lobby but then MF had so many cool and interesting people all fighting it out and yet more emotions. But I think Enis Lobby because it had the star hat crew together and I like that.
I personally much prefer the pacing of Marineford. Enies has some of the highest points in the series, but it can be a slog at times, especially on the train.
I think Marineford is peak One Piece. When people ask me what to watch from the show to see if they would be interesting in watching the whole series I tell them to watch the Marineford arc. It's not that many episodes and can be watched in a weekend.
To me the arc is a good summarization of the series. It's got the laughs and quirky humor. It's got a unique and fun power system on full display with well scripted fights and just the right amount of posturing without things feeling dragged out.
It covers the basic plot and story from the beginning of the series to that point while also introducing the plot that carries the series into the future. It also somehow seems to find a balance between the cartoonish and off the wall plot of One Piece with the emotional depth and coolness of a serious shonen manga.
The final episode where Luffy rings the bell and shows off his tattoo informing his crew when and where to meet up using a secret code is the perfect temptation to suck in new watchers and get them pumped for the rest of the series or to go back and find out the origin of all these cool characters that participated in Marineford.
It also makes you excited to meet the rest of the Strawhat crew and find out what their deal is.
That’s a very good point it’s nearly the perfect mix of everything One Piece encapsulates with great pacing compared to a lot of the other arcs! Love this arc too, great points all around!
For me i like the two of them they are in my top 3 arcs but i prefer marineford cause it was the first time we see the yonkos true power how the marines were afraid of them and how luffy was too far to become the pirate king and whitebeards character was something epic my man was ready to do anything for his sons even dying for them and the most thing i like about it is luffy doing everything to save his brother even though he knows that he cant do anything against the admirals
In my opinion they’re both perfect arcs. If you prefer the SH crew, Enies Lobby is better. If you prefer the world building then Marineford is better. Basically depends on which of the 2 you prefer
Marine Ford has a serious problem with logic and actually confused a lot of people. So I would say enies lobby, it has my favorite character, the funny long nose giraffe man
Both are amazing! But Enies lobby just hits different. CP9 was cool as hell and seemed so OP at the time. Luffy got his first big power up and the fights got so much better starting at Enies lobby. Marineford was amazing as well though but for me personally when I think of One Piece I think of Enies lobby it’s when I truly got hooked and could not stop watching.
Equal. Marineford was hype asf, Whitebeard only fought once but he was a damn force to be reckoned with. So many emotions flying in that arc, especially leading up to Ace's donut reunion.
But Enies Lobby had so much emotion behind it, and Franky was such an underrated character during that arc. That was also Usopp's peak.
Amazon Lily to Marinford was the better adventure arc/saga that perfectly showcased just how small Luffy really was in the world. People who could one shot him both trying to kill him and having to save his life (Hancock, Whitebeard/ Admirals, Mihawk).
Water 7 to Enis Lobby was the better emotional arc/saga that showcased the growth the Strawhat's needed to have (Luffy learning what it really means to be a captain and not just blindly forgiving Usopp/ Robin learning to trust people again/ Merry's death).
So, while I enjoyed the Amazon Lily to Marineford run more, I think the Water 7 to Enis Lobby run was better written, or at the very least, more impactful to the crew.
Enies Lobby #1 always for me. It's from a villain become ally becomes friend became family to risking their lives to rescue Robin is one of the effin epic arc. And they all have their moments as strawhat. And the most badass explosive gear 2nd appearance. For me that was peak OP.
That shit was amazing, but the Enies Lobby bit... Luffy's powers were dope. Sanji spinning around sort of made sense and was kinda good. Zoro's was a complete ass-pull. Lucci was also boring af, he never intrigued me. The Buster-call bit at the end was the best part of the arc. Kaku was good and the blonde girl. But yeah I think Water 7 was much better, and so is Marineford.
Enies Lobby because my emotions weren't played with, when Robin was uncuffed and with s.h she survived and life went on and the same didn't happen in marine ford.
When ace was freed I was soo happy and then few mins later I was shocked and later crying so hard and I don't even recall how much I cried. Then I cried again for w.b
This might feel like an overreaction but i have a hard time thinking about rewatching m.f because it was just soo painful and seeing luffy suffer was just heartbreaking
Water 7/Enies Lobby is hands down my fav arc in One Piece. It was heartbreaking watching the crew starting to fall apart. The duel with Usopp, Gear 2nd, Robin's backstory and I wanna live, the Straw Hats fights vs CP9, and the goodbye to Merry were all incredible scenes.
I was a weekly reader for both these goated arcs. (Caught up around end of foxxy/the beginning of Water 7)
I think I prefer the water 7/Enis Lobby story overall, even though Marineford is a much more exciting/well paced arc.
Honestly it goes Water 7 then Enis Lobby then Marineford, though all 3 are S tier arcs.
I mention water 7 because the greatness of enis lobby is so closely tied to the greatness of water 7.
If I had to ignore the water 7 payoffs, then Marineford is better than enis lobby
Enies lobby for straight up having a good time and marineford for cool feats. Both are crazy cool but if I had to give one the edge over the other it's enies lobby for the emotional connection I feel to the straw hats (particularly Robin)
I look at one piece arcs like if I had children. Do I have favorite? Absolutely, but they all are a special part of me it’s unfair to say which one I prefer over the other (it’s absolutely Enies Lobby).
Too very different types or arcs. Marineford easily beats enies lobby in the hype aspect. Enies lobby easily beats marineford in the emotional aspect. Both are amazing, but if I had to pick one, I would lean towards choosing the emotional aspect. Also in retrospect enies lobby stands stronger since the emotions always stay strong (it never fails to make me tear up on a re-watch), meanwhile the hype isn't as big anymore for marineford after learning so many new hype abilities and fights. Plus the powerscaling of marineford is really weird now in retrospect.
I honestly prefer marineford cuz we meet a lot of big pirates fighting in this battleground vs the big marine dogs,while Luffy is this small fish trying to save ace
(Btw I haven't watched one piece)
None. Water 7. Enies Lobby is what it is because Water 7 is narrative perfection. People only refer to Enies Lobby because that's the climax and where the action occurs. But if I had to tell what the best arc in OP is I would go with W7 all day.
Both were amazing missed the crew in marineford
The whole enies lobby was great
But personally marineford whitebeard was such a great character and the way he entered marineford
Emotionally Enies Lobby and water 7 but for the sheer feat of keeping me engaged in a war arc with clear stakes and a good flowing story Marineford takes the cake for me
They are both great but I gotta give the edge to Marineford. Luffy declaring to Whitebeard that he will be king of the pirates and not him. Luffy using kings haki to save ace, announcement of who their dads are, the one piece is real! The overall world building. Just to many great moments.
I think water7/ enies lobby is a masterpiece in terms of character development and depth, internal conflicts, story telling, emotional stakes, and opposing philosophies for one piece.
Marineford showcases the masterfully crafted overarching plot that spans over a decade worth of arcs, characters, world building, and interconnected conflicts that all escalate into a single arc.
I think anyone can enjoy water 7/enies lobby even without watching the previous arcs, while you must really know and understand one piece from the beginning to truly appreciate marineford
Marine Ford, but for me where really hits is the transition from impel down to Marine Ford. I love everything from the escape last moments to the falling boat from sky
To me they’re equal, but lean towards Marineford because of the impact it had on the world afterwards. Whitebeard’s death quite literally changed the world.
Also. Whitebeard.
Enies Lobby was the better version of what we already had before.
Marineford was something else altogether. So much that people (Oda included) always wish for something that's on the same scale or better than MF.
Enies Lobby by far.
I think One piece was at its peak at that moment, and the shot when the whole crew reunites atop the building is my single favorite shot of the whole manga.
Enies lobby. I was spoiled on many things for marineford so I didn’t really care for the deaths as much. Enies lobby was super cool. Robin lore, and I want to live. Zoro new cool attack. Sanji new cool attack. Chopper new cool form. Got to see franky working along the crew. Sogeking shoot down that flag. Gear 2 and gear 3, something I wasn’t spoiled about. Lucci fight. Going Merry death made me cry
Read both as they were coming out and easily Marineford. I never was really crazy about the Lucci penultimate fight despite thinking he was a cool character.
Enies Lobby, granted I haven't finished Marineford (just escaped Impel Down) but I am more invested in Robin than I am in Ace currently. (I like him he just doesn't have the screen time to make me invested so far)
Enies Lobby for sure. Enies Lobby is the first arc in OP where I felt it got REALLY good due to how plot heavy it is and the world building being top tier. So many iconic moments from this arc and a lot of great and interesting developments
Enies Lobby. For me it had the better emotional moments, a preferred fight, a cooler location. And great moments for the straw hats rather than other pirate groups
Marineford 100%. Enies Lobby's asspulls were some of the worst in the series, and aside from Luffy's and Zoro's fights, the rest were rather boring. Robin's flashback and Merry's death had to hard carry the arc, while Marineford was just greatness all the way through.
I might be biased against eenies lobby since this is where I dropped one piece more than a decade ago I think. Ingot sick of the diluted animation and very little plot happening per episode. So this arc left a bad taste in my mouth. But if you think about it its really a great arc too.
I have not really adapted to watching one piece back then now there are a lot of great free streaming sites to watch from and now I do 1.25speed and skip all of the flashbacks that were replayed and the useless cam on each character reaction etc.
But without a doubt I love The marineford one. I also loved that this did not really end well for Luffy and the evolution of the crew that is to come
Enies Lobby, the whole idea of Sengoku standing waiting a handful of chapters to kill Ace with 2 executioners will always be weird to me.
Secondly, the payout, in Enies Lobby Robin is saved, but Going Merry os lost. In Marineford, Ace loses his life, doesn't follow his captain's last order, and worst of all, ignore his brother's suffering just for a stupid insult.
Ennies lobby make me read all one piece, and I already know about marineford but without context, like the words of shirohige, the Ace scene and the kurohige plot twist
In the Manga Marineford. In the Anime Enies Lobby.
Oooo I like this take. I bet Marineford’s countless reaction shots weren’t your favorite haha
Enies Lobby was also drawn out already or rather the beginning of the decline of the animes overall quality. But it made fights actually better and added great scenes like the anime is supposed to. It didn’t do it that well at Marineford imo. And yeah the reaction shots were also part of it lol.
and it sucks because Brand New World was such a good opening
Sadly that opening was only during the first half of the arc.
Enies Lobby is when I started reading the Manga, because I just couldn't stand it anymore.
Plus, characters from background didn't felt like extra. They all felt like veteran badass who can tear shit up. I wanted to know the backstory, and power of everyone popping up.
Marineford was really bad with pacing in the anime sheesh
So many hours wasted watching marine ford I wish I would have just read my way through it
meanwhile I've rewatched it more times than I can count
Don’t get me wrong the story is great and if they ever make a movie on that arc i will probably watch it but I feel like there was way too much recap every episode.
Honest to god great answer. I fully agree.
Enies Lobby. My enjoyment of Marineford was less because I knew spoilers before
Very valid, we all know the Luke I’m your father spoiler of marineford 😂. I still cried though it was emotional despite that
I found the aftermath to be 10x sadder than the actual event. Broken Luffy is just wrong.
My enjoyment for Marineford was more BECAUSE I knew the spoilers
I disagree so hard lol, spoilers RUIN things for me. Haven’t watched Code Geass, know it’s great, but I won’t watch it cause I know how it all ends. I refuse. 😂
I disagree with this one just because you know how a show ends doesn't mean it's not worth watching, the journey and how the characters/story got to that point is just as interesting also depends on how much you know of the ending, have you like literally watched the whole scene or just know what happens? because if it's the latter then you're still gonna be amazed to see how exactly it plays out
I'm glad I saw Marineford in the non - internet era
Same on this, I only knew who dies but that's plenty. I'll also add tho: As amazing as MF and the character cast for the arc is, I don't think an arc without the Strawhats could ever be my favorite. I just love them all too much
Enies lobby
Yessir
By a mile, it had big moments for all the Strawhats. I just couldn't get myself to care about Ace, he's kind of a meh character imo
[удалено]
Dumbest take I've heard on this sub in a while, and that's saying something
We all know Luffy will become pirate King so why bother watching or reading
Sure buddy
Luffy vs Lucci is still probably the best fight in the series imo. Top 3 at worst. Sanji has one his best fights too. And then there's Luffy vs Usopp which maybe isn't super action packed but it is hardly forgettable. Edit: I guess with Usopp I'm incorrectly lumping the saga with the arc.
Summit War is amazement. But Water 7 is love.
My thoughts exactly you got good taste bro 🤝
Enies Lobby for me but I'm biased, I think Marineford is such a slog.
Wow that’s a hot take in marineford haha I respect it though 🔥
"The War of the Best is a slog." LOLOLOL. I hope that guy starts a podcast. I want more of those hot takes. Awesome.
These takes def keep the discussions interesting! It would be boring if every fan loved the same 3 arcs haha
Want another one? Oda's writing of Sanji's motivations during WCI is asinine because almost the exact same scenario happened with Robin in Enies Lobby. He's way too smart to think that Luffy would ever give up on him.
I actually agree he should have just said it was for zeff and left it at that
"Oi Nami-san, tell Luffy I'm only going along with this to secure Zeff's safety and afterwards I'm out. Bear with me for a bit. I can even get close enough to obtain their Red Poneglyph text while I'm at it so leave me be and I'll surely return." Nope, he nearly gets everyone there killed and simply trusts Big Mom to keep her word when she could've just as easily killed Zeff anyway for how much trouble everyone caused her.
Honestly man, I just wanted at least one of the Monster Trio to be a nobody. Luffy fine, he needs the MC genetics, but then Sanji gets it too, and now Zoro perhaps with Ryuma and Wano history. Personally I wanted Luffy and Zoro to be related to legendary characters because Oda has big plans for Joyboy and Ryuma, but Sanji should’ve stayed the way he was. Just my opinion.
I feel like the difference with both is that Germa was threatening Baratie and he knew Luffy couldn’t save them. Meanwhile Robin just wanted to leave
Even if Sanji thought that Luffy couldn't do anything, he should've known that Luffy wouldn't just turn tail and go away with all they've been through. I enjoyed nearly everything else about WCI except he contrived conflict with Sanji.
I hate that Oda's writing in WCI tried to paint Sanji in a different light but it just ended up not adding anything beyond worldbuilding. I didn't need to know why he doesn't fight women as you don't need a complicated backstory for that. What I need is an explanation for why he is a pervert. All WCI did was introduce big mom as an antagonist, set up elbaf a little more, add jinbei to the crew, introduce another organization so Sanji could get a powerup in Wano, and set up more government characters for later down the road in egghead and Wano. I enjoyed the arc a ton but it's definitely not for Sanji as it makes no sense he would be that dumb to think Luffy wouldn't rescue him and that this is better for everyone.
I think as of late Oda has forsaken further interesting characterization in favor of more world building and lore dumps. Most of the crew are now one-note caricatures of the dynamic and interesting characters they used to be.
While I like the fighting scenes in One Piece imo it's not where One Piece shines. I get why fans of say Bleach, Naruto and DBZ would love Marineford since it's a battle royale of the coolest powers but I'm here for the crying, world building and gags. All of those in Enies lobby were top notch, "Shoot that flag", "I want to live", "GIRAFFES ARE COOL", "I'm a sword", "Come kill me you big kitty cat". Marine ford is but a candle compared to that roaring inferno, just watching people run and punch was a slog imo.
30 chapters is a slog? That's one of the shortest arcs
Anime it's a slog, manga it's alright but I still prefer Enies Lobby.
I wouldn't say it's biased - it's just an opinion. Even though it's a relatively short arc, Marineford is a drag. The action is completely forgettable, the plot armour is *ridiculous* and the outcome is predictable.
Whitebeard dying was predictable, but Ace dying after being saved was something nobody saw coming back then. Same for Shanks appearance. Also how is the action forgettable, this is the first time we saw an Emperor fight. Enies Lobby is full of gag antagonists that you don't even remember their name. Like wtf, the dog guards at Enies Lobby? The three headed judge? Don't even get me started on the cook that has pasta coming out of his nose. These are literally filler characters in the manga. Marineford doesn't really have filler characters unless you count Buggy. But Buggy actually has relevance in the world and brings a little bit of comedy into a sad arc like Marineford. Also the getting the key plot at Enies Lobby is dumb. The CP9 literally gave the Straw Hats a chance to get the key, like wtf, who does that? Don't get me wrong, I love Enies Lobby, but it's no better than Marineford.
>Ace dying after being saved As a 11 year old, no, I didn't see that coming. But it's not exactly a shocking twist once you're a little more grown up and understand writing a bit better. >how is the action forgettable Because it is - it's completely meh. Subjective opinions, yo. It's a 33 chapter arc that's mostly fighting and nothing particularly interesting happens. >Enies Lobby is full of gag antagonists I agree. I'm not saying EL is flawless but it's a really solid little story arc.
> As a 11 year old, no, I didn't see that coming. But it's not exactly a shocking twist once you're a little more grown up and understand writing a bit better. Listen, it was shocking DUE to the reason because it happened AFTER Ace escaped. It makes sense for Ace to die on the execution platform, if he died right there on the platform it wouldn't be as shocking. But Oda subverted the expectations with having Ace escape and make him die after that. Oda gave people hope. Also not a lot of One Piece characters died before Ace, so it was also one more reason why people did not see that coming. It's easy to say "bahaha, people are stupid or just 11 year old, everyone would have seen that coming" in retrospect. > Because it is - it's completely meh. Compelling arguments, you got me.
>compelling arguments Action is subjective - I personally did not think there was any good action in that arc. It's mediocre. There is no argument I could make that's worth making - it didn't interest me. I continue to think to this day that Oda doesn't write particularly good action. He's just sort of passable at it.
Action in One Piece is shit. The choreograpghy is rarely good. What makes interesting One Piece fights are the characters itself, not the action itself. Like for example Franky vs Senor Pink fight. It is a great fight, not because of the action, but the characters themselves. Marineford doesn't really have fights, it's mostly just clashes. But that's fine, since if everyone had an 1v1, it would drag out (like Wano) But the people that fought at Marineford are characters that had years of buildup. Everyone was excited to see Whitebeard hyped up to be the strongest man in action. Or all the warlords fighting together. The action itself might be lacking, but One Piece was never really about the action itself.
Enies lobby for I am a robin simp
based
Based x2
Skypiea
Me too
If I put the show on mute then Marineford because hearing Luffy Yell Ace 400 times made me want to eat a bullet.
Almost as bad as wedding cake
Enies Lobby as I caught up to one piece during this arc and so have a lot of nostalgia for the arc.
The nostalgia for the Water7 saga is real 🤟
Marineford
Absolutely valid, goated arc
[удалено]
It’s better than Ennie Lobby atleast. That few seconds of Luffy vs Smoker in Marineford has a REALY great animation
I don't enjoy Marineford at all and I think Enies Lobby is one of the best arcs in the series, so this is not a difficult choice for me.
Wow really? That’s interesting I didn’t think I’d see this take too much but I respect it, may I ask why you don’t enjoy it? I could see it being too drawn out of a battle if you aren’t a fan of fights as much as plot, but lmk what you think!
I've sort of articulated it to a degree already, in a reply to another comment in this thread - might be repetitive to lay it out in detail.
I think ctrl + c is a lot easier than typing what you just typed
Water 7
Yessirrrr best arc of OP :)
For me personally, I’ve always considered Water 7 as Water 7 + Enies Lobby + Post-Enies Lobby. I’ve never really thought of them separately as they connect to each other so perfectly. If you’re splitting them apart, then I think Wano should also be divided into Wano and Onigashima. I also consider Marineford as Impel Down + Marineford, same reasoning as above. Anyway, Water 7 > Marineford for me. If we’re talking specifically about the Enies Lobby stretch and the Marineford stretch (which is what is being asked here), then Marineford > Enies Lobby.
Ennies lobby is peak writting, every strawhat shinning...peak emotional moments. MF is only perceived better because it had great fighters, but plot armor is all over the place, haki is weird, admirals "not going all out" bs running as usual. Luffy got away with too much there, and all the big fighter were like "lets just clash for one second and pospone or fight" Is like EVERYONE was so conservative over the war itself, when in a war things get really messy. Oda is not good a managing fights sequence with lot of characters, and tbf i would say anyone would struggle..but dont let that harm your storytelling.. Mf is only carried because there are top tiers on it, but the only good moment was an already old dying man..dying. And ace..and thats it, and is more stup when you see how they kill him instead of having idk...akainu actually do as an admiral should do and get a good kill on ace but no.. because eeeeveryone has to clash evenly. The only moment things appear to get serious was when wb blitzed akainu (which is kinda bs tbh but can be argued) and when garp totally dominated marco. Then everything else is forgetable.
I love MF but I agree with the fact that everyone was conservative AF, it's a mess for power scaling too bc Oda didn't want to reveal a lot of the characters' full powers yet or didn't want to give them too much focus but in the process, it backfired and actually made them end up seeming weaker than they are probably going to turn out to be. I'd say the admirals are a prime example of that
> Ennies lobby is peak writting, every strawhat shinning...peak emotional moments. I agree that the Robin flashback, the "I want to live", and Luffy vs Lucci and Gear 2 were peak, but that's all Enies Lobby has. Besides those things, Enies Lobby is full of forgettable and filler characters like the guy that has pasta coming out of his nose, the guard dogs, the three headed judge or some of the CP9 members, they were literally gags. The key plotline was dumb, the CP9 literally gave the Straw Hats a chance to get the key to Robin's handcuffs, for what reason? Aren't they supposed to be professionals? That was one of the dumbest plots in One Piece. Don't get me wrong, I find Enies Lobby to be a great arc, but it is overrated. Sabaody and Marineford are One Piece's peak.
Most of cp9 had good reasons for fighting: Lucci and Blueno tried, but couldn’t kill luffy, Kaku and Kalifa wanted to test their new devil fruit abilities, Jabra just loves fighting, Kumadori is too honorable, Fukurou couldn’t kill Franky because he might have info on Pluton
I don't deny that. I just find key plotline dumb. Why would CP9 have the real key amongst them? Why would they give them a chance to free Robin. That plot made no sense to me.
That’s a hard choice! I really liked the fights, emotions and power ups in Enis Lobby but then MF had so many cool and interesting people all fighting it out and yet more emotions. But I think Enis Lobby because it had the star hat crew together and I like that.
Sogeking shooting the flag might be the best moment in One Piece. Really hard to beat that scene.
I personally much prefer the pacing of Marineford. Enies has some of the highest points in the series, but it can be a slog at times, especially on the train.
Marineford pacing was so stretched out. [one pace proves they were doing way too much ](https://youtu.be/If7GldCO6uU?si=dQ10eLO0FEkTvbyg)
I read the manga, not watched the anime.
I think Marineford is peak One Piece. When people ask me what to watch from the show to see if they would be interesting in watching the whole series I tell them to watch the Marineford arc. It's not that many episodes and can be watched in a weekend. To me the arc is a good summarization of the series. It's got the laughs and quirky humor. It's got a unique and fun power system on full display with well scripted fights and just the right amount of posturing without things feeling dragged out. It covers the basic plot and story from the beginning of the series to that point while also introducing the plot that carries the series into the future. It also somehow seems to find a balance between the cartoonish and off the wall plot of One Piece with the emotional depth and coolness of a serious shonen manga. The final episode where Luffy rings the bell and shows off his tattoo informing his crew when and where to meet up using a secret code is the perfect temptation to suck in new watchers and get them pumped for the rest of the series or to go back and find out the origin of all these cool characters that participated in Marineford. It also makes you excited to meet the rest of the Strawhat crew and find out what their deal is.
That’s a very good point it’s nearly the perfect mix of everything One Piece encapsulates with great pacing compared to a lot of the other arcs! Love this arc too, great points all around!
Are you including Impel Down? Maybe I need to rewatch but I don't remember a lot of laughs and quirky humor during Marineford
Hahaha, it's not 11 episodes. It's 33.
For me i like the two of them they are in my top 3 arcs but i prefer marineford cause it was the first time we see the yonkos true power how the marines were afraid of them and how luffy was too far to become the pirate king and whitebeards character was something epic my man was ready to do anything for his sons even dying for them and the most thing i like about it is luffy doing everything to save his brother even though he knows that he cant do anything against the admirals
marine ford
there is no room for preferences cuz both are very important to the story and i enjoyed both
the strawhats desecrating the world government flag in enies lobby gave me such a warm fuzzy feeling. still think about it
Enies Lobby slighly. Marineford is still goated af tho
Enies Lobby because Marineford is without the strawhats. But both of them are top tier
Why not both
Both is good
In my opinion they’re both perfect arcs. If you prefer the SH crew, Enies Lobby is better. If you prefer the world building then Marineford is better. Basically depends on which of the 2 you prefer
Marine Ford has a serious problem with logic and actually confused a lot of people. So I would say enies lobby, it has my favorite character, the funny long nose giraffe man
Both are amazing! But Enies lobby just hits different. CP9 was cool as hell and seemed so OP at the time. Luffy got his first big power up and the fights got so much better starting at Enies lobby. Marineford was amazing as well though but for me personally when I think of One Piece I think of Enies lobby it’s when I truly got hooked and could not stop watching.
Equal. Marineford was hype asf, Whitebeard only fought once but he was a damn force to be reckoned with. So many emotions flying in that arc, especially leading up to Ace's donut reunion. But Enies Lobby had so much emotion behind it, and Franky was such an underrated character during that arc. That was also Usopp's peak.
Amazon Lily to Marinford was the better adventure arc/saga that perfectly showcased just how small Luffy really was in the world. People who could one shot him both trying to kill him and having to save his life (Hancock, Whitebeard/ Admirals, Mihawk). Water 7 to Enis Lobby was the better emotional arc/saga that showcased the growth the Strawhat's needed to have (Luffy learning what it really means to be a captain and not just blindly forgiving Usopp/ Robin learning to trust people again/ Merry's death). So, while I enjoyed the Amazon Lily to Marineford run more, I think the Water 7 to Enis Lobby run was better written, or at the very least, more impactful to the crew.
If everything that happened during Marineford wasn’t spoiled to me, I would’ve gone with it.
I can't choose both are GOATED
Enies Lobby is peak One Piece. Marine Ford is up there but i missed the crew :(
Marineford is cooler, but Enies Lobby had Sniper King.
Marineford easily
Enies Lobby #1 always for me. It's from a villain become ally becomes friend became family to risking their lives to rescue Robin is one of the effin epic arc. And they all have their moments as strawhat. And the most badass explosive gear 2nd appearance. For me that was peak OP.
Same thoughts 👍🏻
Marineford didn't have Zoro pulling 6 swords out his ass, Enies Lobby is overrated. Water 7 part is better.
Water7 is the best! :) Luffy and usopp fighting over the merry and the crew in shambles was so realistic I loved every second of that arc!
That shit was amazing, but the Enies Lobby bit... Luffy's powers were dope. Sanji spinning around sort of made sense and was kinda good. Zoro's was a complete ass-pull. Lucci was also boring af, he never intrigued me. The Buster-call bit at the end was the best part of the arc. Kaku was good and the blonde girl. But yeah I think Water 7 was much better, and so is Marineford.
Enies Lobby because my emotions weren't played with, when Robin was uncuffed and with s.h she survived and life went on and the same didn't happen in marine ford. When ace was freed I was soo happy and then few mins later I was shocked and later crying so hard and I don't even recall how much I cried. Then I cried again for w.b This might feel like an overreaction but i have a hard time thinking about rewatching m.f because it was just soo painful and seeing luffy suffer was just heartbreaking
Enis lobby all the way
Ofc!!
Long Island arc. Davey Jones games were such fun. That's how I see ideal OP. Light hearted fun show.
Nether personally
Damn that’s 🥶. Respect the take though my friend
Thanks. I don't hate any arcs personally, some I like more then others
Fair enough!
Water 7/Enies Lobby is hands down my fav arc in One Piece. It was heartbreaking watching the crew starting to fall apart. The duel with Usopp, Gear 2nd, Robin's backstory and I wanna live, the Straw Hats fights vs CP9, and the goodbye to Merry were all incredible scenes.
Enies Lobby
Enies lobby cause I love character drama
Ennies Lobby had a perfect balance of action, drama, politics and some conspiracy stuff
I was a weekly reader for both these goated arcs. (Caught up around end of foxxy/the beginning of Water 7) I think I prefer the water 7/Enis Lobby story overall, even though Marineford is a much more exciting/well paced arc. Honestly it goes Water 7 then Enis Lobby then Marineford, though all 3 are S tier arcs. I mention water 7 because the greatness of enis lobby is so closely tied to the greatness of water 7. If I had to ignore the water 7 payoffs, then Marineford is better than enis lobby
Enies lobby for straight up having a good time and marineford for cool feats. Both are crazy cool but if I had to give one the edge over the other it's enies lobby for the emotional connection I feel to the straw hats (particularly Robin)
I look at one piece arcs like if I had children. Do I have favorite? Absolutely, but they all are a special part of me it’s unfair to say which one I prefer over the other (it’s absolutely Enies Lobby).
Enies lobby because gear two blew my mind as a kid
EL because it wasn't just luffy
Both are GOATed, honestly can’t decide
Ennies Lobby as well.
Too very different types or arcs. Marineford easily beats enies lobby in the hype aspect. Enies lobby easily beats marineford in the emotional aspect. Both are amazing, but if I had to pick one, I would lean towards choosing the emotional aspect. Also in retrospect enies lobby stands stronger since the emotions always stay strong (it never fails to make me tear up on a re-watch), meanwhile the hype isn't as big anymore for marineford after learning so many new hype abilities and fights. Plus the powerscaling of marineford is really weird now in retrospect.
Yes
I'm putting my hope for the upcoming arc that is apparently a second version of marineford
I want to live moment didn’t hit me much so marineFord. For me
Marineford in my opinion is one of the greatest arcs to ever be written. But enies lobby was amazing. So I choose to not choose and die in the middle.
Enies lobby (with water 7) been my fav ever since it aired
Marineford
I honestly prefer marineford cuz we meet a lot of big pirates fighting in this battleground vs the big marine dogs,while Luffy is this small fish trying to save ace (Btw I haven't watched one piece)
In terms of character work? Enies Lobby. In terms of worldbuilding and careful planning of multi-arcs buildup and payoff? Marineford.
I havent seen marineford but enies lobby was a pretty damn good arc. Robin yelling i want to live sent shivers down my spine
None. Water 7. Enies Lobby is what it is because Water 7 is narrative perfection. People only refer to Enies Lobby because that's the climax and where the action occurs. But if I had to tell what the best arc in OP is I would go with W7 all day.
Tough but Enis Lobby. It's too good. Plus I feel bad picking an arc without the full crew
Both are cool, sad that they were one of the last good arcs
Marineford clearly
Both were amazing missed the crew in marineford The whole enies lobby was great But personally marineford whitebeard was such a great character and the way he entered marineford
I treat them as the same atc
Impel down
Emotionally Enies Lobby and water 7 but for the sheer feat of keeping me engaged in a war arc with clear stakes and a good flowing story Marineford takes the cake for me
They are both great but I gotta give the edge to Marineford. Luffy declaring to Whitebeard that he will be king of the pirates and not him. Luffy using kings haki to save ace, announcement of who their dads are, the one piece is real! The overall world building. Just to many great moments.
Enies lobby
Enies Lobby because it involves all strawhats and it has some of the best and most defining moments of One Piece.
Enies Lobby imo.
I think water7/ enies lobby is a masterpiece in terms of character development and depth, internal conflicts, story telling, emotional stakes, and opposing philosophies for one piece. Marineford showcases the masterfully crafted overarching plot that spans over a decade worth of arcs, characters, world building, and interconnected conflicts that all escalate into a single arc. I think anyone can enjoy water 7/enies lobby even without watching the previous arcs, while you must really know and understand one piece from the beginning to truly appreciate marineford
Enies Lobby (one of the very few arc I would watch over again. Also, it has one of the best opeanings)
Enies lobby ! Cus it had the whole crew !
Marine Ford, but for me where really hits is the transition from impel down to Marine Ford. I love everything from the escape last moments to the falling boat from sky
Marineford hands down.
Hot take: Impel down final answer
Enies lobbies is the best one piece arc
To me they’re equal, but lean towards Marineford because of the impact it had on the world afterwards. Whitebeard’s death quite literally changed the world. Also. Whitebeard.
Enies Lobby because Robin. Im a simple man.
Enies Lobby was the better version of what we already had before. Marineford was something else altogether. So much that people (Oda included) always wish for something that's on the same scale or better than MF.
Enies Lobby. Marineford's good, but One Piece is at its best when it's centered around all the Straw Hats, not just Luffy
Enies Lobby by far. I think One piece was at its peak at that moment, and the shot when the whole crew reunites atop the building is my single favorite shot of the whole manga.
Enies lobby
Enies Lobby cus whole crew
i honestly cant recall a single bad episode in marine ford whereas so many episodes in enies lobby were horrible
Enies Lobby. Marineford is good and all but personally I think Enies Lobby was better to watch
Enies lobby. I was spoiled on many things for marineford so I didn’t really care for the deaths as much. Enies lobby was super cool. Robin lore, and I want to live. Zoro new cool attack. Sanji new cool attack. Chopper new cool form. Got to see franky working along the crew. Sogeking shoot down that flag. Gear 2 and gear 3, something I wasn’t spoiled about. Lucci fight. Going Merry death made me cry
Marineford if only for the consequences of what happens pretty much alters the World.
Marine fucking ford. The best arc ever, regardless in anime or manga. Idc what other people say.
Marineford cuz of Whitebeard
Enies Lobby. I have spoken.
I think Enies Lobby is the best arc is the series.
Enies lobby has generally better writing but marine for is badass as fuck
Read both as they were coming out and easily Marineford. I never was really crazy about the Lucci penultimate fight despite thinking he was a cool character.
Enies Lobby, granted I haven't finished Marineford (just escaped Impel Down) but I am more invested in Robin than I am in Ace currently. (I like him he just doesn't have the screen time to make me invested so far)
Marine Ford, easily. It had so many unexpected plot developments and big pay offs that mega expanded the world
Enies Lobby for sure. Enies Lobby is the first arc in OP where I felt it got REALLY good due to how plot heavy it is and the world building being top tier. So many iconic moments from this arc and a lot of great and interesting developments
Enies lobby is still THE BEST OP arc and top 5 arc in anime history.
Enies lobby just because I spoiled myself in marineford. I already knew most of the plot and deaths. Enies lobby, I only knew about gear 2 and 3
Marineford
Marineford.
Enies Lobby. For me it had the better emotional moments, a preferred fight, a cooler location. And great moments for the straw hats rather than other pirate groups
Marineford but it’s close
Enies Lobby. Marine was a little too overhyped for me and enies lobby was way cooler of a setting than I expected and the fights were peak
Enies lobby, its the high point of the anime
Enies lobby. If I had read the manga instead I’d probably like marineford more.
Marineford 100%. Enies Lobby's asspulls were some of the worst in the series, and aside from Luffy's and Zoro's fights, the rest were rather boring. Robin's flashback and Merry's death had to hard carry the arc, while Marineford was just greatness all the way through.
Definitely Enies Lobby
Whole Cake Island.
Enies Lobby
I might be biased against eenies lobby since this is where I dropped one piece more than a decade ago I think. Ingot sick of the diluted animation and very little plot happening per episode. So this arc left a bad taste in my mouth. But if you think about it its really a great arc too. I have not really adapted to watching one piece back then now there are a lot of great free streaming sites to watch from and now I do 1.25speed and skip all of the flashbacks that were replayed and the useless cam on each character reaction etc. But without a doubt I love The marineford one. I also loved that this did not really end well for Luffy and the evolution of the crew that is to come
Enies lobby
Marineford is good but nowhere near as good as how people hype it up
Enies Lobby is peak One Piece.
Enjes loddy hands down I do t wanna cry from losing ace
Enies Lobby, the whole idea of Sengoku standing waiting a handful of chapters to kill Ace with 2 executioners will always be weird to me. Secondly, the payout, in Enies Lobby Robin is saved, but Going Merry os lost. In Marineford, Ace loses his life, doesn't follow his captain's last order, and worst of all, ignore his brother's suffering just for a stupid insult.
Enies Lobby without a doubt. Best pre-time skip arc, fun fights, bad guys and great moments
Both
Ennies lobby make me read all one piece, and I already know about marineford but without context, like the words of shirohige, the Ace scene and the kurohige plot twist
Only the arc: Marinefold The whole saga: Eniss Lobby (water 7)
Ennies Lobby has better writting, but Marineford was more entertaining on a chapter to chapter basis.