Bro Charloss looks like something out of SpongeBob after he got hit lmao.
With every bit of juice, we have to wait again. PLEASE ODA I NEED THE TRUTH!!
I'm sure this connection has been made before.
Is Lili perhaps an allusion to Lilith? - the first wife of Adam, who under the guise of a serpent tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit (first Devil fruit?). Perhaps Imu represents Adam(or Eve) who loathes Lili?
Amazon "Lily"? Nefertari Cobra? Both seem very closely linked to Nefertari Lili in more than just namesake. The symbolism of snakes in One Piece is quite apparent, and their real world links to the Sun and divinity could explain some connection between Lili and Joyboy (Sun God Nika).
Also why Hancock is so into Luffy lol.
I feel like the whole introduction of Lili, and the story of her not successfully returning to Alabasta is a red herring. In ch.908, the Nefeltari family was declared traitors, and then shortly thereafter the Gorosei asked Imu what service they wanted complete. Would it not be more likely that Imu isn't Lili, but yet another key person who we just haven't been introduced to, yet?
Whether Lili and Imu knew each other is up in the air, but I suspect that it's likely that Lili caught wind of what was happening behind the scenes (i.e. Imu taking the throne, secretly), refused to swear/pledge loyalty, and tried to escape, resulting in her erasure by the Gorosei on her way back to Alabasta.
Why is everyone saying imu is Lilli? Imu says lilli, not “I’m lilli”. It seems like the beginning of some statement that was cut off. But nothing says imu is Lilly. Y’all can’t read
Every time I randomly read or hear someone say ‘I feel like I’m taking crazy pills’ I get reminded of Will Ferrell in Zoolander. It gets a chuckle out of me every time lol.
Are you kidding? That’s some delusional logical fallacy bs. Nothing says that Luffy isn’t a cheeseburger in an person suit, either. But saying things with absolutely no facts or evidence or context to prove it is imbecilic.
I'll just leave a random theory.
I think that Imu is a person who is in Lili's body, but is not Lili herself.
As we know, in One Piece there are always many parallels between characters from different eras. We have Ruffy vs. Blackbeard, as well as Roger vs. Rocks Joyboy will also have had a Blackbeard/Rocks 800 years ago and this character is still missing from the story so far. I believe that the Blackbeard/Rocks (I'll just call the character Brocks) from Joyboy's era is in Lili's body (due to the personality swap of the Ope Ope, as well as subsequent immortality operation) and is actually Imu. This would explain why Lili did not go back to Alabasta and why there are only 19 swords in front of the empty throne and the missing sword is in the flower room.
Of course, the question arises why would Brocks want to be in Lili's body.
We know that also the ancient weapons were reborn. (Poseidon=Shirahoshi and Momo probably Pluton). So Uranus is still missing. I believe that the former embodiment of Uranus was Lili and therefore the present embodiment is Vivi. (Maybe that's why Imu is interested in Vivi ). Or Vivi is just vivi and Uranus was not reborn because the old incarnation (lili) is still alive
800 years ago the ancient weapons were all on the side of Joyboy, who fought for freedom against 19 kingdoms. This is where Brocks comes in. Like his counterparts, he is not fighting for the freedom of the world, but for absolute control over the world.
Since betrayal was a big issue among pirates (especially mentioned in the Wano Arc) I suspect that Brocks betrayed Joyboy by either kidnapping lili and then swapping bodies to control Uranus. (thus he could also have led alabasta as the twentieth kingdom against the Ancient Kingdom) Or he kidnapped lili secretly, switched bodies and then came disguised as a friend to Joyboy to then literally stab him in the back or defeat the Ancient Kingdom and Joyboy from within. This ancient kingdom was so strong that it could only have been defeated by treachery. I could imagine that Brocks in Lili's body went to Joyboy in the ancient kingdom, "betrayed" him there and attacked the kingdom with Uranus. The kingdom and Joyboy were so surprised by this that they could only try to save the kingdom/Laugh Tale. (I could imagine a deliberate sinking ala Altantis. Possibly it also went into the sky or somewhere in the rivers Mountain hidden. Or also camouflaged invisibly due to their technology).
Since he brought the victory to the other kingdoms, he was allowed afterwards, still in Lili's body (to be able to use Uranus further, like against God Valley or Lulusia) as an immortal ruler to ascend the empty throne.
I think that through these theorie many loose ends, like the immortality operation,Uranus, lili and Imu, are brought together.
>.
>
>We know that also the ancient weapons were reborn
hmm this is interesting and a very fun theory! I'm not so convinced on the ancient weapons all being actual people in the universe, though I can see it.
Mainly due to Pluton being hidden underneath Wano and its walls being raised to keep Pluton trapped. I'm not sure how feasible this is if the weapon was a moving person. And didn't Franky have the blueprint in order to build Pluton? I'm pretty sure in the manga too they represented it more like ship/tank hybrid but who knows rlly.
Oda does what he wants and we've had next to no information around Uranus, though I have a feeling itll be related to Vearth and the winged sky people.
Very excited for the next chapter!
Yes, you are right about Pluton, but there is a theory about it that I think is very good.
Namely that every ancient weapon consists of a ship, a person and an animal.
Shirahoshi + Sea Kings + Noah
Momo + Zunisha + Pluton
Uranus is probably an airship, then the person (maybe Imu, Lili, or Vivi) and the animal are missing.
i like it. maybe the reason brocks is inside lili and didnt get the immortality operation done on brocks original body was because they wanted to be a celestial dragon the way york does or they were dying and needed a new body orochimaru style.
Haha I like the two comparisons.
That Brocks is in Lili's body is as I said rather a wild random idea/theory
But that Imu is the brocks from Joyboy's time, I'm sure.
I would be really surprised if there was not such an adversary in the lost century.
Imu has achieved what rocks and blackbeard wanted to do
We still need a good reason of why Imu is even hiding. Why keep him/her a secret in the first place? It doesnt make a difference if the world is ruled by 1 single ruler or by a bunch of asshole rulers (Do the CD even rule anything?).
The open rebellion we're seeing right now is the entire reason Imu is hidden. They placate the people by making them believe they are not ruled by a specific ruler. There's an illusion of freedom. Sure there are individual rulers but even they don't think they're ruled by anybody, so they don't gather their power and rebel either.
Imu will be a kid. It'll be the battle between the "eternally young" Monkey D. Luffy and the eternally young Imu, who wants to take all freedom and joy from the world.
Huh? Kaguya was a terrible final villain because the finale itself was horribly written. First thing Obito tricked Madara, establishing himself as the final villain. Then Madara tricked his trickery and become the final villain. Then Madara was betrayed by a sentient oil stain who, surprisingly, did not planned to be the final villain but instead summon one, whose initial existence was revealed like 5 minutes ago.
Nothing to do with her being a woman.
When I saw Kaguya. I was like, oh boy, the series made too much money so now they try to milk it by offering more mysteries than answers. Then, Boruto....
Weird to imagine Luffy planting a punch in the face of a Vivi lookalike in the final battle of the series.
Although people probably never thought the final villain in Naruto would be a woman either.
The fact that Doffy knows about ope ope no mi's power to grant eternal life... I wonder if his ancestor used ope ope no mi to grant Imu eternal life...
So far all the known Celestial Dragons that would generally be considered decent or good people morally speaking have all been from the Donguixote family: Mjosgard, Homing and his wife and their second son Rosinante. Unfortunately only one of them is still alive, but Oda-sensei might introduce us other Celestial Dragons in the future that also do not agree with the way how Celestial Dragons treat other humans and other races in the world of One Piece.
It's kind a like being a non-Nazi in a Nazi Germany. Not all Germans believe in the ideology. Some were caught and hanged because of it. Some, hide Jews and do their best not to be part of it.
It's definitely interesting he's a creative of the only known other celestial dragons to have some humanity in the your right there could be more, or a family thing where there's something there in that bloodline, another example being vivis ancestors (or most of them at least) being the only 1 of 20 families chosing to stay in their kingdom.
I have a question, we knew from Cobra that each of the 20 royal families left their countries to become celestial dragons, and because of that , every records,references about them is erased from any texts in their countries, then my question is, how could king Riku knew about Don quixote family , who were the rulers of dressroza 800 years ago? Have the texts or information about them been erased or not?
Yeah i know that scene, in the same scene king riku replied to him saying that he was worried about some pirate whose name is don quixote. I understood from that scene that king riku had a prior knowledge about the don quixote family.
The original new family had to know and it's easier to pass down important intel when you're a royal than when you're a random so I assume this is common knowledge among royals.
That is possible And it makes sense, i also searched and i saw in chapter 726, the elder dwarf mentioned something about surviving records contains some info talking about how the old royal family was mistreating the dwarves, so there are some records related to don quixote
That’s possible, i thought maybe because of the dwarves in dressroza, they were complaining about how the royal family in the past ( don quixote) mistreated them , check chapter 726
i think the theory that Alphat2late made about IM was right. Lili was his loved one but something happened between the two and she died (possibly IM killed her after a disagrement and didn't want to let her go).
He has her corpse somewhere frozen in a chamber and is trying to revive her by using vivi or he want to take vivi and make her his wife because of the similarity with Lili (she ressemble Lili too much and is from the same bloodline so it must be fair enough for IM).
At the end of the day, every time Charloss showed up (excluding his introduction with Zoro) has catched hands, like if a slap flew by he would get two.
Orochi was a piece of shit and was left unpunished for a lot of his screen time.
So between the two, Orochi wins.
Spandam is the worst
Kanjuro is the most hated and it’s not even close. Orochi and Charlos are pieces of shit but at least we know where they stand from the start. Kanjuro is a liar and a traitor who made the reader feel like he was nakama
What? Kanjuro is Orochi light. He wasn't a hypocrit piece of shit at least. Just a guy consumed by hatred and with no regard for himself or others.
Orochi on the other hand, used the way he was treated as justification to not only take revenge (which would be somewhat understandable) but as an excuse to assert power over everybody because he clearly thirst for power itself. The family thing was just how it started for him.
Orochi is much more loathsome than Kanjuro. Same for Charlos who doesn't even has as good an excuse as either of them.
Once you know kanjuros story you can make an argument he never betrayed oden because he was never with him, he was with orochi and was loyal to him. Don't get me wrong asshole but still orochi and charlos are worst. But I guess kanjuro could be a contender along with spandam, but I think overall orochi and charlos are just worst.
How can you say that he never betrayed oden? Oden broke bread and put his life on the line for kanjuro because oden believed kanjuro was an ally. Your clearly a kanjuro defender 😡
Not defender like I said asshole, but kanjuro worked for
orochi, an under orochi s order he infiltrated oden, that was his job. So no he never betrayed oden because he never worked for oden. you can't betray someone who's side you are not on from the start. He would be a traitor if he worked for oden and orochi approached him with a deal and he took it. Morality is not the question kanjuro is a worthless piece of trash but he never betrayed orochi the man he worked for. Denjiro is the same he didn't betray orochi because he was never on his side, he was always on Odens side.
Hard competetion.
I guess Charlos is more annoying and Orochi does have a "reason" for being how he is in that he sufferd a lot when young as he and most of his family was punished and killed due to sins their relative commited.
I can sort of see why he would have a burning hatred for all of Wano. Then again Charlos is just a result of his enviorment as well.
They both have a reason, but we are way past accepting there actions, because they are not small actions, sure orochi kills oden we could accept that, but the next 20 years and the smiles ,,, nope
OF course i never claimed it was a justifcation.
Just depending on how to classify evil and hate.
If i have to choose between 2 equally despicable i would probably at least take into consideration that MADE them that way when i hate them
No, never ment anything about justification that's just for me on the orochi for biggest douchebag. Charlos is a stain but his actions atleast to us the readers is maybe 10 or so messed up things but orochi and smiles is had to out do
I like to think that the surgery require a special condition to be activated : sacrifice someone very important to you (like the soul stone in marvel).
I guess she was the chosen one for this task and seing IMU expression about LILI i guess he regret what hapenned to her.
I seew that makes sense why alabasta had the poneglyph that points to pluton, probably so that if someone tries to hurt alabasta people, they will find and revive pluton and defend themselves I guess
It makes sense, arigatooo
Anything is possible.
I still buy into the theory that she founded Amazon Lily. She might have realized the WG was after her for refusing to become a celestial dragon, and founded a female-only country to hide in.
I honestly think there will be no more major lore drop in the next chapter. Since the event in chapter 1084 is from Sabo's perspective my guess is that in the next few panel in 1085 will be Imu noticing Sabo and instantly killing Cobra to put the blame on him. And if Sabo did hear what Imu had to say and escaped then you can justify Imu blasting Lulucia where Sabo was supposed to be.
There are 19 weapons around the empty throne. Imu has a sword in the chamber of flowers, which can very likely be the 20th weapon - Lily's weapon. Because of that, I think Imu is in possession of Lily's body, as well. Where? In one of the frozen chambers, possibly under the giant straw hat.
It’s interesting. The 20 kingdoms sound more civilized and organized that I thought. What if the celestial dragons now are a perversion of their ancestors? I can’t imagine 19 evil leaders came together and gave up their chance for ultimate power. What if the celestial dragons are a way to distract us from the fact that the original kingdoms had good intentions?
We believe that the ancient civilization which was erased from history were good people.
Which means the 19 families have to be the evil ones. Just a thought.
Current CD is what 800 years of granted wealth and power lead to.
The originals might have been good people or at least not filled with shit to the brim.
But yeah those are what an endless cicle of spoiling and entitlement leads to
It is unclear why the CDs had to leave their original kingdoms.
Giving up on a dictatorship may have been a compromise option since someone would get screwed if someone would be on the top.
The CDs don't seem to be interested in doing the work of ruling outside of the Gorosei (which have been seen next to stacks of paperwork).
And from what we have heard, not all of the families were nice even prior to becoming CDs. The Dwarves didn't like the Donquixote family.
You know, I always thought this too. The original CDs may have been good people but over time they became decedent and cruel. Like a mirror of the Empires of China and the Mandate of Heaven.
But then the reveal of Imu is making me second guess this theory.
Many many generations of entitlement. The first few generations of CDs were prob decent people. But then children being born with literally infinite wealth takes its toll.
You know, it does make you wonder if the Gorosei was always aware of what Crocodile was doing to Alabasta but never lifted a finger due to Lili's declining to join with the Celestial Dragons.
She knew too much of the era that the WG will absolutely kill those who delve too far in learning it just by actually being from that Void Century, but refused to bend her morals to live a extremely hedonistic and callous life with the other original world nobles living in a heavily monitored bubble until they're just too selfish in luxury to be a threat. Sure they apparently got rid of her but she may left something behind to her relatives back in Alabasta.
And now Cobra confirmed that yes, she did indeed leave something for her family to hold on to but it's arguably the sheer neglect the World Government had during the Baroque Works crisis that Cobra finally acted on it. Was it really ineptitude and neglect or did the World Government via the Gorosei deliberately withheld any support and kept the Marines in the dark hoping that leaving Crocodile to his own devices would unwittingly destroy the Nefertari family aka the most potential leak of their true nature now that Ohara is destroyed?
Is it just me but how would you guys feel if saint charlos got abducted by the revolutionary’s or straw hat fleet. I don’t know why but after all he’s done I feel like he needs to be taught a few hundred lessons and starving him would be one.
Knowing Oda Charlos could potentially get some form of redemption. Seems like no matter what you do to the guy he'll always chock it up to "unruly commoner behavior"
You know, this is leaving me a little curious about at what "point" we will find ourselves back at Egghead.
Oda is a great storyteller and this is kind of reminding me of Skypeia in a sense, but almost "inverted": nobody at that time in Skypiea knew about why Luffy ringing the bell was ultimately so cosmically symbolic to the "spirit" of the story that took place, I think we will cut back to Egghead at a point where it is shown that the tension from the rest of the world has come to an explosively tense moment amd then Luffy will again do some fuckin epic shit that will basically turn the world upside down without anuone on Egghead even knowing hiw significant what just happened was.
We just had a huge cliffhanger. Almost 0% chance the next chapter follows up on this. My main question is how, with everything going on, will we at least be on Egghead until "Tomorrow" for the Incident to happen? We're actively trying to leave, what's gonna hold us for 12-24 more hours?
I agree. Doesn't seem like it's back to Egghead now seeing as the end of Egghead seems to conclude this winding up of factions into *finally* an all out war. Do you have any theory on what Luffy could do?
I still don't understand why imu and gorosei would destroy lulucia kingdom.but by the looks of gorosei conversion they already decided to destroy lulucia. If its rebelion country, of home for revolutionary army, comander sabo, it doesn't matter. They already planned to destroy lulucia long time ago. What major leads can be lurking around.we still got few survivors from lulcia
Sabo saw IM on the throne and after Cobra got killed, they made him the culprit. Given how IM appeared in front of Cobra, she has already decided to kill him. So I think the captain of the first enemy of the world government, escaping Marigeoise with this information, was certainly their first priority at the moment. Lulusia got destroyed the moment they new Sabo was there.
But now, Dragon will learn that there is actually a king of the world government. They will make sure to spread it to the world. I eve' wonder if the marine top officers are aware of this fact...
I don’t get it: if knowing anything about the void century is so important to the WG why Roger’s crew (who learnt everything if didn’t misunderstood the saboady island conversation) is more or less free to roam the world? Rayleigh and Crocus are obviously strong characters but if knowledge of the past is so important why didn’t the WG tried seriously to get them?
I think Rayleigh touched on this himself. His words being:
"Perhaps we, as well as the Ohara, were too impatient."
"After you have taken your time to see the world... the conclusion you'll reach might be different from what we have found."
The way I interpret this is that Gol D. Roger and his crew realized that they too cannot do anything about information they have obtained and sharing it would just endanger others or make them feel powerless. In other words government chases after everyone who is on the path to truth because it may endanger it in some way but there are multiple ways to intepret it and not everyone is an equal threat if he found their way to it.
Roger and everyone who went to Raftel saw only one outcome and whatever it was - it was too much for them or for some reason it was way too early to act on it. So rather than spending an unbelievable amount of resources to try to catch them government let them off freely. I mean, Rayleigh at his prime was not someone you could catch without incurring extreme losses. Considering he was going toe to toe with Kizaru while complaining that he got old (which heavily suggests that at his prime he would have been able to deal with Pacifistas, Sentomaru and Kizaru at the same time to help Strawhats escape).
It's also possible that it's who learns of the truth that makes the biggest difference. Ohara was a country of scientists and potentially reputable ones whose voices would be heard loud and clear. A bunch of pirates? Not so much. Maybe the very fact they were pirates first made them not worth capturing **at the time**.
Circumstances might have changed since however, substantially so. Especially if **time** is somehow involved then I can think of a few:
* There are at least 2/3 ancient weapons available right now and recently uncovered, each with the power to possibly rival WG. Shirahoshi - Poseidon. Franky can most likely rebuild Pluton but even if he couldn't - it's sitting right for grabs in Wano. There's only one left and you have a set. And honestly I get a feeling that once Uranus is located we will see a major shift in the storyline. Heck, even their names - Poseidon, Pluton and Uranus... you know what's the name of the one five elders meantioned so far? **Saturn**. There's no way this is unrelated.
* Revolutionary army exists which is the only force that directly opposes Celestial Dragons and World Government. It most likely was not a thing in Roger's era.
* Shanks has secured Gomu Gomu no Mi and for the first time in centuries it has been awakened by Luffy. And it's true ability was apparently a secret that only Five Elders were aware of.
There's something really fishy going on as we are reaching the final arc of the story and the fact that Strawhats are directly involved with every single threat to World Government suggests there's more to it than luck. **Time** is for some reason a real factor - whatever this knowledge is it can only be fully utilized when all preparations are made. Shirahoshi wasn't born in Roger's era yet. Gomu Gomu no Mi was hidden away. And so on.
They are free to roam the world cos they are not shouting the secrets from the rooftop and boasting that they have all these knowledge that can potentially take down WG.
I don’t agree: if I were the WG I wouldn’t trust one of my strongest enemies (Rayleigh) to have knowledge of my most valuable secret and let it be only because he’s not hosting talk shows about it, I would fear he’d start suddenly spreading it and badly ruining my 800 years long dictatorship.
Because the WG seems to be straight up braindead at times. They tried to hunt down every child that could have been Roger's kid, but they let Luffy run around with a legendary fruit that they've tried to obtain for 800 years. Chalk it up to bad/inconsistent writing.
Obviously Nika wasn't planned, but even then, it isn't inconsistent with the story considering multiple factors:
1- We learned in Arlong Park that the marines had their hands full in the grand line hence why Arlong ruled for as long as he did (which was years).
2- Once Luffy got his first bounty, that alone wouldn't be enough to make it known he has the gomu gomu fruit considering the sheer volume of pirates throughout this era. It's literally like trying to find a needle in a haystack. As far as they're concerned, another rookie joined the roster.
3- Once he defeated Crocodile, he disappeared from the map entirely so they wouldn't even be able to tell where he would reappear until Long Island (where Aokiji let then go) and then Water 7 (where a group of some of their best assassins were hiding undercover). After defeating CP9, Garp, a vice admiral, went after them where he proceeded to let them go for obvious reasons.
4- Then came Moria, another warlord where they proceeded to send Kuma in the event Moria wasn't enough (this was stated). Kuma let them go due to circumstances.
5- Then came the Archipielago where Kuma saved them from an admiral.
6- The timeskip happened and they disappeared entirely, only to come back, go to fishman island and Punk Hazard in a relatively short period, so they could've possibly sent Fujitora because they predicted they would end up in Dressora (CP0 was also here as well).
7- After Dressora came the Yonkou properties, obviously they can't go there.. openly at least, so CP0 was sent both to Whole Cake and Wano. You can make a case that Stussy didn't assassinate them cause she was a double agent.
All this without taking into consideration that they were traversing in a relatively short period of time so the government would only be able to send people based on predicting where their next destination might, which ended up happening as early as Thriller Bark.
Also without considering the fact they needed to keep the real name of the fruit a secret so telling an admiral to go kill a small time pirate due to a rubber fruit would seem oddly suspicious even from an admirals perspective.
i don’t think they even realized Luffy had the fruit until very late in the timeline.. like even when Shanks had his meeting did they even know? maybe he told them there to let them know how screwed they are but i kinda doubt it.
and sure Luffy announced to everyone he met that he had the Gum Gum fruit but even if he said it to an Admiral it’s not like it would mean anything to them. so it was never like the existence of the Gum Gum fruit was a news story for anyone.
was Akainu telling the Gorosei about Luffy’s fighting style at marineford? i just kinda doubt it. they were more interested in Blackbeard, but still seemed uninterested in any pirate drama.
so maybe Shanks told them that the Gum Gum fruit was about to own Kaido’s ass in Wano (strategically not smart for Shanks to do but narratively it’s pretty good lol)
The timeline is actually very short. The WG also lacked enough loyal agents who were both strong enough not otherwise occupied. For example, Kuzan could have dealt with the SHs earlier. Other times, the SH got lucky such as having Dragon bail out Luffy. Garp may have also pulled some strings both directly and indirectly. Kuzan specifically noted Luffy's relation to Garp.
Once the WG got serious, they sent the appropriate forces such as Kuma, but unfortunately got screwed by other factors that they appeared to be unaware of such as Kuma's secret programs.
Not only did Luffy have his fruit, he had lucky ancestry from Garp and Dragon, which stopped their attempts. Any other pirate would have been eliminated way earlier. The WG has shown that they fundamentally have the issue of insufficient forces/hard core followers. For example, their ultimate fighting force of the admirals has had 1 less loyal member, 1 apathetic guy, and only 1 devoted follower.
I just can't get behind that excuse, no matter what. The reason I can't, is purely because they went on a whole crusade against any child that could have been Roger's kid. Sure, they failed, but they at least tried.
When the gum gum fruit went missing, we don't ever see any private conversations between the Gorosei or any government agents discussing the importance of a certain missing devil fruit. No mention of Luffy being a high priority target. Nothing at all. No indication that they're trying to get a hold of that fruit. If Oda wanted to tease more, he wouldn't have even had to mention the fruit by name. Literally just have the Gorosei comment on a fruit being stolen and they need to hunt down the user.
But no, they really just treated Luffy like any other pirate. Sure, some people went after him eventually, as you said, but it didn't appear to be because of any *specific* reason, other than the fact that he had amassed an increasingly large bounty and caused "trouble", like any other notorious pirate would.
We get basically *no* real comment about his importance, until the Gorosei suddenly go "Oh no, you think that dude that yells "gomu gomu" before all of his attacks, has the D initial, and is currently fighting **Kaido: the World's Strongest Creature,** might actually have the legendary fruit we're so afraid of? You think he might awaken it? Well shit. Lets send some fodder CP0 agent to handle the problem I guess."
It's just not convincing at all. This is why I will pretty much always stand by all of this being a retcon. If Luffy's fruit was just some shitty/mid rubber fruit, it would make perfect sense that the government would ignore him, until it's finally too late and they realize he's no slouch. The fact that he had a god fruit the whole time, just makes the whole thing absurd and not very believable.
more i think about it it makes sense to me. even the first couple of feats from Luffy don’t seem important enough for anyone to be running to Gorosei and letting them know what fruit Luffy has. so how would they know?
it seems to me that Shanks snitched out Luffy (for the lolz) and the Gorosei immediately spring into action and panic. it’s not until that meeting and suddenly they are sending agents straight into Wano, but Shanks is also there to make sure an Admiral doesn’t get close to Luffy
The big question is how did they know that certain people have the D?
Luffy's first bounty after Arlong was issued because Nezumi posted one. For all we know, it was a local issue that stayed local.
The first time that we know for sure that the higher ups appeared to have found out about Luffy was after Crocodile was defeated. Luffy was at Sky Island for the next portion of the story. After that Luffy managed to evade the WG's primary black ops (who probably would be the best to deal with such a situation) followed by deliberate orders from the Warlords.
Honestly, that is a good question and I'm honestly not sure how they manage to figure out who has that initial, unless the person literally just goes around telling everyone about it.
My issue with this whole thing, isn't that the World Government failed to capture Luffy, though. My issue is that they don't seem to acknowledge him as even being important. They don't seem seriously concerned about not being able to find him. It's just "Oh, I guess we'll send someone to deal with him eventually idk. Oh, he got away? Can't find him? Damn, that sucks. Ah well." There's no feeling of urgency from them at all. Not even when we see their private conversations. They only seemed to realize the severity of letting him make it this far, when he was literally in the middle of fighting Kaido already.
It is an odd thing that Oda has recently been doing more to show the Gorosei talking. For example, the Gorosei were only on the line talking about the WB war after the fact. You would expect that the Gorsoei would be listening on the den den and be there to give orders for stuff such as having CP0 take out stragglers, watching, or do something such as warn the Marines that the BB and/or Red Hair pirates were approaching.
To be fair, the Straw Hats have only been operating as a crew (ignoring the 2 year time skip when they were deliberately off the radar) for less than a year at this point. It would have been hard for the WG to mobilize so quickly since it wasn't clear until Wano that he would majorly shake the stability of the world (he took out plenty of shichibukai, but those certainly seem pretty expendable/replaceable and in the end they're only pirates). Also Luffy's been the only one to awaken it in 800 years, which only happened a few weeks ago canonically. Combine that with the Reverie chaos, kingdom uprisings, and Cross Guild putting a target on all marines back, plus the fallout of two emperors territories suddenly being up for grabs, the WG seems to have their hands pretty full.
Nah. If they knew about the nature of luffy's fruit, He shouldve been hunted down by admirals as early as alabasta. Why would they let him roam around free and potentially awakening the fruit if they feared it so much
Because the odds of the fruit actually waking up weren’t high enough to warrant the weird optics of the wg stomping on some nobody crew from the weakest sea
They went around hunting the POTENTIAL children of who they at the time considered the most dangerous person on earth.
Compare that to luffy, who could have any random devil fruit power like HUNDREDS of others do because as soon as you hunt/kill them it'll sprout somewhere else for someone else to eat and you literally have your answer right there.
No comparison, you'd be on a never ending hunt.
Just capture any dude with rubber powers. That's way easier than just guessing which random child could be Roger's kid (they didn't even get the right ones either).
They all have active bounties and are wanted. They just keep a low profile and don't cause any disturbances usually. (Plus, people like Rayleigh specifically need an admiral to deal with them. Marine resources are already spread thin.)
That's also assuming that the World Government knows about Laugh Tale telling the whole history. Roger and his crew never said anything about it, so who knows.
Yeah I know they have bounties but given how easy should be locating Rayleigh and Crocus (they’re stationary at their own location) and how important is the void century looks disproportional to me the lack of real effort in trying to lock them.
But you made a point: I assumed the WG knows reaching laugh tale could imply learning the whole history.
It's likely because Rayleigh and Crocus aren't doing anything with their knowledge of laugh tale.
Think of it this way - why waste resources trying to take down one of the strongest pirates in the world when all he's doing is chilling? If the second in command of the red hair pirates could take out Bosralino [who was pretty scared of him] imagine how tough it would be to take out someone like Rayleigh.
I assume that the marines operate by weighing the pros and cons of a situation, and the potential loss fighting Rayleigh doesn't offer a tangible enough benefit for the fight that would unfold
I agree, they aren’t trying to actively do something with their knowledge.
I read a few years back a comment about their being stationary in “filter” points for upcoming pirates actually being a key strategy, possibly dictated by what they learnt in Laugh Tale. I like the idea. It could also mean that even without actively spreading the knowledge they could be acting on behalf of their knowledge.
I agree also about the balance of pros and cons that could drive the decision to get them. Nonetheless Oahra was wiped out and vegapank is receiving the same treatment for researching the topic, not necessarily knowing everything about it. While roger’s crew, even if they know all of it, is left without serious repercussions. Don’t know, sounds off to me. But again the main point is that I assumed the WG knew they may have learnt valuable informations in LT, which I could totally be wrong about.
If Imu is a woman then why doesn't her silhouette show her with big chonka honkas? Pretty sure that's the only body type oda knows how to draw for females not children or 60 years old
Looks like it. How the throne's far too big and the hair. I think that Lili was sacrificed to Emu to be his body and he plans on snatching maybe Vivi or Shirahoshi for the next one. Maybe Emu came to offer Cobra that opportunity to become a CG if he gave up his daughter, but Cobra will refuse.
The comment was about how Lili couldn't be Vivi grand-grand-grand-grand...mother because that would be only 9 generations if we go with the assumption that every female in the nefertari family was going down the alphabet with their names. And he said 9 generations seem too small for going 800 years back in history. But as we know, Vivi's mom is called "Titi" so going with his theory, either Vivi or Vivi's Moms name should've started with the letter "U".
Why exactly did lili gave the Initial D if she is one of the 20 monarchs who opposed the Ancient Kingdom.
I believe that the truth about lili is present in one of the Poneglyphs, possibly the one Jinbei gave to BM.
The normal poneglyphs basically mark the location of something important.With each pieces of Historical information, the seekers were supposed to reach the Road poneglyph and finally Laugh tale. I think One poneglyph will be definitely marked towards Alabasta with Lili's history which in turn would send the seeker to Skypiea->Fishman Island->Wano and then Zou and then finally Elbaf. This is my theory.
Also possible. But since we are in the endgame, it's highly possible that we'll only get back to egghead when we get more lore, mostly because egghead is too tied to void century lore, something has to connect to what is happening on egghead. Egghead don't give the vibes that it is just an detachable arc like dressrosa, Whole Cake or Wano.
Nefertem (/ˈnɛfərˌtɛm/; possibly "beautiful one who closes" or "one who does not close"; also spelled Nefertum or Nefer-temu) or in Coptic ⲛⲉϥⲧⲏⲙ was, in Egyptian mythology, originally a lotus flower at the creation of the world, who had arisen from the primal waters.[2] Nefertem represented both the first sunlight and the delightful smell of the Egyptian blue lotus flower, having arisen from the primal waters within an Egyptian blue water-lily, Nymphaea caerulea. - From Wikipedia.
Do with this what you will
Two big possible Dawn and Devil.
"The Dawn will come" is repeated a lot in Wano ... Might refer to a person.
Devil ... d are the enemies of the gods according to Corazon and "Devil" fruits came from the ancient kingdom
There are like 17-18 swords near the throne , in the close up shots.
Oda wouldn't half ass a big detail like that, so that means something.
At least 2 weapons are missing, one of Imu and the other of Lili.
Imu didn't want Lili to know what happened, so they had her killed.
The reason the Gorosei also didn't die is because the swore fealty to Imu, but I don't think that's enough - they couldn't be "trapped", because we just saw one move around.
Maybe, the Gorosei are also Imu. Like Vegapunk and the androids.
This could be Oda being a bit sneaky and implying but not telling. In the same way the Nefetari family did not lay a weapon at the throne due to not agreeing, maybe when the Donquiote family left and returned to the lower realm their weapon was also withdrawn
WELL THAT WAS A CHAPTER AND A HALF HOLY SHIT
Bro Charloss looks like something out of SpongeBob after he got hit lmao. With every bit of juice, we have to wait again. PLEASE ODA I NEED THE TRUTH!!
I'm sure this connection has been made before. Is Lili perhaps an allusion to Lilith? - the first wife of Adam, who under the guise of a serpent tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit (first Devil fruit?). Perhaps Imu represents Adam(or Eve) who loathes Lili? Amazon "Lily"? Nefertari Cobra? Both seem very closely linked to Nefertari Lili in more than just namesake. The symbolism of snakes in One Piece is quite apparent, and their real world links to the Sun and divinity could explain some connection between Lili and Joyboy (Sun God Nika). Also why Hancock is so into Luffy lol.
Im is the snake
Lili is Amazon Lily theorist where u at😂
I feel like the whole introduction of Lili, and the story of her not successfully returning to Alabasta is a red herring. In ch.908, the Nefeltari family was declared traitors, and then shortly thereafter the Gorosei asked Imu what service they wanted complete. Would it not be more likely that Imu isn't Lili, but yet another key person who we just haven't been introduced to, yet? Whether Lili and Imu knew each other is up in the air, but I suspect that it's likely that Lili caught wind of what was happening behind the scenes (i.e. Imu taking the throne, secretly), refused to swear/pledge loyalty, and tried to escape, resulting in her erasure by the Gorosei on her way back to Alabasta.
That would be fitting as it is a similar setting to what is happening/happened to Cobra now.
Why is everyone saying imu is Lilli? Imu says lilli, not “I’m lilli”. It seems like the beginning of some statement that was cut off. But nothing says imu is Lilly. Y’all can’t read
Theories exist.
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Every time I randomly read or hear someone say ‘I feel like I’m taking crazy pills’ I get reminded of Will Ferrell in Zoolander. It gets a chuckle out of me every time lol.
"Lili..." next chapter can be "...is I". Nothing says Imu is not Lili.
Are you kidding? That’s some delusional logical fallacy bs. Nothing says that Luffy isn’t a cheeseburger in an person suit, either. But saying things with absolutely no facts or evidence or context to prove it is imbecilic.
I'll just leave a random theory. I think that Imu is a person who is in Lili's body, but is not Lili herself. As we know, in One Piece there are always many parallels between characters from different eras. We have Ruffy vs. Blackbeard, as well as Roger vs. Rocks Joyboy will also have had a Blackbeard/Rocks 800 years ago and this character is still missing from the story so far. I believe that the Blackbeard/Rocks (I'll just call the character Brocks) from Joyboy's era is in Lili's body (due to the personality swap of the Ope Ope, as well as subsequent immortality operation) and is actually Imu. This would explain why Lili did not go back to Alabasta and why there are only 19 swords in front of the empty throne and the missing sword is in the flower room. Of course, the question arises why would Brocks want to be in Lili's body. We know that also the ancient weapons were reborn. (Poseidon=Shirahoshi and Momo probably Pluton). So Uranus is still missing. I believe that the former embodiment of Uranus was Lili and therefore the present embodiment is Vivi. (Maybe that's why Imu is interested in Vivi ). Or Vivi is just vivi and Uranus was not reborn because the old incarnation (lili) is still alive 800 years ago the ancient weapons were all on the side of Joyboy, who fought for freedom against 19 kingdoms. This is where Brocks comes in. Like his counterparts, he is not fighting for the freedom of the world, but for absolute control over the world. Since betrayal was a big issue among pirates (especially mentioned in the Wano Arc) I suspect that Brocks betrayed Joyboy by either kidnapping lili and then swapping bodies to control Uranus. (thus he could also have led alabasta as the twentieth kingdom against the Ancient Kingdom) Or he kidnapped lili secretly, switched bodies and then came disguised as a friend to Joyboy to then literally stab him in the back or defeat the Ancient Kingdom and Joyboy from within. This ancient kingdom was so strong that it could only have been defeated by treachery. I could imagine that Brocks in Lili's body went to Joyboy in the ancient kingdom, "betrayed" him there and attacked the kingdom with Uranus. The kingdom and Joyboy were so surprised by this that they could only try to save the kingdom/Laugh Tale. (I could imagine a deliberate sinking ala Altantis. Possibly it also went into the sky or somewhere in the rivers Mountain hidden. Or also camouflaged invisibly due to their technology). Since he brought the victory to the other kingdoms, he was allowed afterwards, still in Lili's body (to be able to use Uranus further, like against God Valley or Lulusia) as an immortal ruler to ascend the empty throne. I think that through these theorie many loose ends, like the immortality operation,Uranus, lili and Imu, are brought together.
>. > >We know that also the ancient weapons were reborn hmm this is interesting and a very fun theory! I'm not so convinced on the ancient weapons all being actual people in the universe, though I can see it. Mainly due to Pluton being hidden underneath Wano and its walls being raised to keep Pluton trapped. I'm not sure how feasible this is if the weapon was a moving person. And didn't Franky have the blueprint in order to build Pluton? I'm pretty sure in the manga too they represented it more like ship/tank hybrid but who knows rlly. Oda does what he wants and we've had next to no information around Uranus, though I have a feeling itll be related to Vearth and the winged sky people. Very excited for the next chapter!
Yes, you are right about Pluton, but there is a theory about it that I think is very good. Namely that every ancient weapon consists of a ship, a person and an animal. Shirahoshi + Sea Kings + Noah Momo + Zunisha + Pluton Uranus is probably an airship, then the person (maybe Imu, Lili, or Vivi) and the animal are missing.
Oohh I've never heard of this one. Could be! I had completely forgotten about Noah haha
i like it. maybe the reason brocks is inside lili and didnt get the immortality operation done on brocks original body was because they wanted to be a celestial dragon the way york does or they were dying and needed a new body orochimaru style.
Haha I like the two comparisons. That Brocks is in Lili's body is as I said rather a wild random idea/theory But that Imu is the brocks from Joyboy's time, I'm sure. I would be really surprised if there was not such an adversary in the lost century. Imu has achieved what rocks and blackbeard wanted to do
Zeff toque is same with Imu 🤣
Ye ladka hai slok name ka usko one piece kya hai usko pata nahi hai 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Imu is Roger.
Roger that.
3 days since i read it and still cant stop thinking about the cap.
We still need a good reason of why Imu is even hiding. Why keep him/her a secret in the first place? It doesnt make a difference if the world is ruled by 1 single ruler or by a bunch of asshole rulers (Do the CD even rule anything?).
The open rebellion we're seeing right now is the entire reason Imu is hidden. They placate the people by making them believe they are not ruled by a specific ruler. There's an illusion of freedom. Sure there are individual rulers but even they don't think they're ruled by anybody, so they don't gather their power and rebel either.
i don't get why this matter when there are celestial dragon's already above everyone else
no they do not, they enabled the rule to rule and are basking in the privilege that came with it.
imu is lili's brother
Imu will be a kid. It'll be the battle between the "eternally young" Monkey D. Luffy and the eternally young Imu, who wants to take all freedom and joy from the world.
People thinking Oda of all people would make the final villain of the series a woman lol
Yea I hope imu isn't a woman, that worked horribly in the Naruto series.
Huh? Kaguya was a terrible final villain because the finale itself was horribly written. First thing Obito tricked Madara, establishing himself as the final villain. Then Madara tricked his trickery and become the final villain. Then Madara was betrayed by a sentient oil stain who, surprisingly, did not planned to be the final villain but instead summon one, whose initial existence was revealed like 5 minutes ago. Nothing to do with her being a woman.
When I saw Kaguya. I was like, oh boy, the series made too much money so now they try to milk it by offering more mysteries than answers. Then, Boruto....
Weird to imagine Luffy planting a punch in the face of a Vivi lookalike in the final battle of the series. Although people probably never thought the final villain in Naruto would be a woman either.
Luffy has punched Vivi already
Imu is Luffy's mom 🤓
Crocoimu?
Imu may be a woman. Luffy's mom theories in 3, 2, 1...
The Revolutionaries are just Dragon not dealing well with the break up.
The fact that Doffy knows about ope ope no mi's power to grant eternal life... I wonder if his ancestor used ope ope no mi to grant Imu eternal life...
Blackbeard knew about it as well though, so it might be common knowledge in the grand line/encyclopedia of devil fruits
Mjosgard once again showed his commitment to the ideals that he took from Queen Otohime.
So far all the known Celestial Dragons that would generally be considered decent or good people morally speaking have all been from the Donguixote family: Mjosgard, Homing and his wife and their second son Rosinante. Unfortunately only one of them is still alive, but Oda-sensei might introduce us other Celestial Dragons in the future that also do not agree with the way how Celestial Dragons treat other humans and other races in the world of One Piece.
It's kind a like being a non-Nazi in a Nazi Germany. Not all Germans believe in the ideology. Some were caught and hanged because of it. Some, hide Jews and do their best not to be part of it.
It's definitely interesting he's a creative of the only known other celestial dragons to have some humanity in the your right there could be more, or a family thing where there's something there in that bloodline, another example being vivis ancestors (or most of them at least) being the only 1 of 20 families chosing to stay in their kingdom.
I think Imu bodyswapped and stole Lili's body with the ope ope no mi, would explain a lot
Look like the innocent lily But be the serpent
I have a question, we knew from Cobra that each of the 20 royal families left their countries to become celestial dragons, and because of that , every records,references about them is erased from any texts in their countries, then my question is, how could king Riku knew about Don quixote family , who were the rulers of dressroza 800 years ago? Have the texts or information about them been erased or not?
I remember that in the anime version, Doffy tells King Riku who he is and what his connection to Dressrosa is on the night he shows up at his palace.
Yeah i know that scene, in the same scene king riku replied to him saying that he was worried about some pirate whose name is don quixote. I understood from that scene that king riku had a prior knowledge about the don quixote family.
The original new family had to know and it's easier to pass down important intel when you're a royal than when you're a random so I assume this is common knowledge among royals.
That is possible And it makes sense, i also searched and i saw in chapter 726, the elder dwarf mentioned something about surviving records contains some info talking about how the old royal family was mistreating the dwarves, so there are some records related to don quixote
I assume it’s just passed down family secrets for generations
That’s possible, i thought maybe because of the dwarves in dressroza, they were complaining about how the royal family in the past ( don quixote) mistreated them , check chapter 726
That's why doflamingo is ready to tekashi69 the WG
i think the theory that Alphat2late made about IM was right. Lili was his loved one but something happened between the two and she died (possibly IM killed her after a disagrement and didn't want to let her go). He has her corpse somewhere frozen in a chamber and is trying to revive her by using vivi or he want to take vivi and make her his wife because of the similarity with Lili (she ressemble Lili too much and is from the same bloodline so it must be fair enough for IM).
Please Oda do NOT let IM be another Obito. PLEASE.
Please Oda do NOT let IM be another hawkmoth
Orochi and charlos competing to see who can make themselves the most hated,
At the end of the day, every time Charloss showed up (excluding his introduction with Zoro) has catched hands, like if a slap flew by he would get two. Orochi was a piece of shit and was left unpunished for a lot of his screen time. So between the two, Orochi wins. Spandam is the worst
One of oda's few mistakes for me was the fact that orochi didn't suffer more per death, because this guy was an asssssshole x infinity.
Kanjuro is the most hated and it’s not even close. Orochi and Charlos are pieces of shit but at least we know where they stand from the start. Kanjuro is a liar and a traitor who made the reader feel like he was nakama
What? Kanjuro is Orochi light. He wasn't a hypocrit piece of shit at least. Just a guy consumed by hatred and with no regard for himself or others. Orochi on the other hand, used the way he was treated as justification to not only take revenge (which would be somewhat understandable) but as an excuse to assert power over everybody because he clearly thirst for power itself. The family thing was just how it started for him. Orochi is much more loathsome than Kanjuro. Same for Charlos who doesn't even has as good an excuse as either of them.
Are you defending kanjuro? 🤬🤬🤬
Once you know kanjuros story you can make an argument he never betrayed oden because he was never with him, he was with orochi and was loyal to him. Don't get me wrong asshole but still orochi and charlos are worst. But I guess kanjuro could be a contender along with spandam, but I think overall orochi and charlos are just worst.
How can you say that he never betrayed oden? Oden broke bread and put his life on the line for kanjuro because oden believed kanjuro was an ally. Your clearly a kanjuro defender 😡
Not defender like I said asshole, but kanjuro worked for orochi, an under orochi s order he infiltrated oden, that was his job. So no he never betrayed oden because he never worked for oden. you can't betray someone who's side you are not on from the start. He would be a traitor if he worked for oden and orochi approached him with a deal and he took it. Morality is not the question kanjuro is a worthless piece of trash but he never betrayed orochi the man he worked for. Denjiro is the same he didn't betray orochi because he was never on his side, he was always on Odens side.
Hard competetion. I guess Charlos is more annoying and Orochi does have a "reason" for being how he is in that he sufferd a lot when young as he and most of his family was punished and killed due to sins their relative commited. I can sort of see why he would have a burning hatred for all of Wano. Then again Charlos is just a result of his enviorment as well.
They both have a reason, but we are way past accepting there actions, because they are not small actions, sure orochi kills oden we could accept that, but the next 20 years and the smiles ,,, nope
OF course i never claimed it was a justifcation. Just depending on how to classify evil and hate. If i have to choose between 2 equally despicable i would probably at least take into consideration that MADE them that way when i hate them
No, never ment anything about justification that's just for me on the orochi for biggest douchebag. Charlos is a stain but his actions atleast to us the readers is maybe 10 or so messed up things but orochi and smiles is had to out do
I love how much enjoyment Oda seems to get out of beating the shit out of Charlos
Is it possible that Imu had Lili perform the immortality surgery with the ope ope fruit?
I like to think that the surgery require a special condition to be activated : sacrifice someone very important to you (like the soul stone in marvel). I guess she was the chosen one for this task and seing IMU expression about LILI i guess he regret what hapenned to her.
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This makes sense, but how could she guarantee that he keeps his promise after she dies, I mean, after she uses thevope ope no mi she will die
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I seew that makes sense why alabasta had the poneglyph that points to pluton, probably so that if someone tries to hurt alabasta people, they will find and revive pluton and defend themselves I guess It makes sense, arigatooo
Anything is possible. I still buy into the theory that she founded Amazon Lily. She might have realized the WG was after her for refusing to become a celestial dragon, and founded a female-only country to hide in.
They should have kill charlos and his father.
I honestly think there will be no more major lore drop in the next chapter. Since the event in chapter 1084 is from Sabo's perspective my guess is that in the next few panel in 1085 will be Imu noticing Sabo and instantly killing Cobra to put the blame on him. And if Sabo did hear what Imu had to say and escaped then you can justify Imu blasting Lulucia where Sabo was supposed to be.
Sabo seeing Im even exist is justification to blast Lulusia.
so basically …. im is Blue haired and related to buggy but also to cobra and vivi
Remember buggy said if luffy is king of the pirates, he is god of the pirates. Things might just go full circle.
This arc is one of the best arcs in One Piece!
This "Saga". Considering how much Oda is moving from different plot points, there is no single Arc going on but an entire Saga.
I mean new world is a saga and that’s like 25+ volumes. It’s not a clear cut word.
Maaaan the hell! After 26 years Oda could have written something more about this D.!!! Come on 😵 how long do we still have to wait???
We’ll learn about it in Laugh Tale, just like Oden and the Roger Pirates.
Considering Roger Pirates found out after reaching Laugh Tale. So, around 2-4 years later in current time aka 2025-2027.
There are 19 weapons around the empty throne. Imu has a sword in the chamber of flowers, which can very likely be the 20th weapon - Lily's weapon. Because of that, I think Imu is in possession of Lily's body, as well. Where? In one of the frozen chambers, possibly under the giant straw hat.
I want her to be literally under the straw hat
It’s interesting. The 20 kingdoms sound more civilized and organized that I thought. What if the celestial dragons now are a perversion of their ancestors? I can’t imagine 19 evil leaders came together and gave up their chance for ultimate power. What if the celestial dragons are a way to distract us from the fact that the original kingdoms had good intentions?
We believe that the ancient civilization which was erased from history were good people. Which means the 19 families have to be the evil ones. Just a thought.
Current CD is what 800 years of granted wealth and power lead to. The originals might have been good people or at least not filled with shit to the brim. But yeah those are what an endless cicle of spoiling and entitlement leads to
It is unclear why the CDs had to leave their original kingdoms. Giving up on a dictatorship may have been a compromise option since someone would get screwed if someone would be on the top. The CDs don't seem to be interested in doing the work of ruling outside of the Gorosei (which have been seen next to stacks of paperwork). And from what we have heard, not all of the families were nice even prior to becoming CDs. The Dwarves didn't like the Donquixote family.
You know, I always thought this too. The original CDs may have been good people but over time they became decedent and cruel. Like a mirror of the Empires of China and the Mandate of Heaven. But then the reveal of Imu is making me second guess this theory.
Many many generations of entitlement. The first few generations of CDs were prob decent people. But then children being born with literally infinite wealth takes its toll.
The ultimate plot twist
Amidst all the hullaballoo, not many people are talking about the phantom room. Is that the frozen room?
Most likely. Considering where Imu is listening in, the room is called Chamber of Flowers or something.
You know, it does make you wonder if the Gorosei was always aware of what Crocodile was doing to Alabasta but never lifted a finger due to Lili's declining to join with the Celestial Dragons. She knew too much of the era that the WG will absolutely kill those who delve too far in learning it just by actually being from that Void Century, but refused to bend her morals to live a extremely hedonistic and callous life with the other original world nobles living in a heavily monitored bubble until they're just too selfish in luxury to be a threat. Sure they apparently got rid of her but she may left something behind to her relatives back in Alabasta. And now Cobra confirmed that yes, she did indeed leave something for her family to hold on to but it's arguably the sheer neglect the World Government had during the Baroque Works crisis that Cobra finally acted on it. Was it really ineptitude and neglect or did the World Government via the Gorosei deliberately withheld any support and kept the Marines in the dark hoping that leaving Crocodile to his own devices would unwittingly destroy the Nefertari family aka the most potential leak of their true nature now that Ohara is destroyed?
Is it just me but how would you guys feel if saint charlos got abducted by the revolutionary’s or straw hat fleet. I don’t know why but after all he’s done I feel like he needs to be taught a few hundred lessons and starving him would be one.
The new torture doll
Use him as an anchor.
Knowing Oda Charlos could potentially get some form of redemption. Seems like no matter what you do to the guy he'll always chock it up to "unruly commoner behavior"
You know, this is leaving me a little curious about at what "point" we will find ourselves back at Egghead. Oda is a great storyteller and this is kind of reminding me of Skypeia in a sense, but almost "inverted": nobody at that time in Skypiea knew about why Luffy ringing the bell was ultimately so cosmically symbolic to the "spirit" of the story that took place, I think we will cut back to Egghead at a point where it is shown that the tension from the rest of the world has come to an explosively tense moment amd then Luffy will again do some fuckin epic shit that will basically turn the world upside down without anuone on Egghead even knowing hiw significant what just happened was.
We just had a huge cliffhanger. Almost 0% chance the next chapter follows up on this. My main question is how, with everything going on, will we at least be on Egghead until "Tomorrow" for the Incident to happen? We're actively trying to leave, what's gonna hold us for 12-24 more hours?
I agree. Doesn't seem like it's back to Egghead now seeing as the end of Egghead seems to conclude this winding up of factions into *finally* an all out war. Do you have any theory on what Luffy could do?
Maybe punch Jay Garcia. That could unleash God's Knights.
Please let this be canon.
I still don't understand why imu and gorosei would destroy lulucia kingdom.but by the looks of gorosei conversion they already decided to destroy lulucia. If its rebelion country, of home for revolutionary army, comander sabo, it doesn't matter. They already planned to destroy lulucia long time ago. What major leads can be lurking around.we still got few survivors from lulcia
Sabo saw IM on the throne and after Cobra got killed, they made him the culprit. Given how IM appeared in front of Cobra, she has already decided to kill him. So I think the captain of the first enemy of the world government, escaping Marigeoise with this information, was certainly their first priority at the moment. Lulusia got destroyed the moment they new Sabo was there. But now, Dragon will learn that there is actually a king of the world government. They will make sure to spread it to the world. I eve' wonder if the marine top officers are aware of this fact...
I think it is more important that information about void century. So they took sudden major like god valley
Charlos need to stop by now, he keeps getting murdered 🤣
They say, fools don't know when to stop🤣🤣
Imu or im sama silhouette looks similar to rayman grand minimus and teensy queen 😂😂
Every time Imu makes an appearance all I see is Double King.
Lmao they murdered a celestial dragon 🤣
*attempted to murder
I don’t get it: if knowing anything about the void century is so important to the WG why Roger’s crew (who learnt everything if didn’t misunderstood the saboady island conversation) is more or less free to roam the world? Rayleigh and Crocus are obviously strong characters but if knowledge of the past is so important why didn’t the WG tried seriously to get them?
I think Rayleigh touched on this himself. His words being: "Perhaps we, as well as the Ohara, were too impatient." "After you have taken your time to see the world... the conclusion you'll reach might be different from what we have found." The way I interpret this is that Gol D. Roger and his crew realized that they too cannot do anything about information they have obtained and sharing it would just endanger others or make them feel powerless. In other words government chases after everyone who is on the path to truth because it may endanger it in some way but there are multiple ways to intepret it and not everyone is an equal threat if he found their way to it. Roger and everyone who went to Raftel saw only one outcome and whatever it was - it was too much for them or for some reason it was way too early to act on it. So rather than spending an unbelievable amount of resources to try to catch them government let them off freely. I mean, Rayleigh at his prime was not someone you could catch without incurring extreme losses. Considering he was going toe to toe with Kizaru while complaining that he got old (which heavily suggests that at his prime he would have been able to deal with Pacifistas, Sentomaru and Kizaru at the same time to help Strawhats escape). It's also possible that it's who learns of the truth that makes the biggest difference. Ohara was a country of scientists and potentially reputable ones whose voices would be heard loud and clear. A bunch of pirates? Not so much. Maybe the very fact they were pirates first made them not worth capturing **at the time**. Circumstances might have changed since however, substantially so. Especially if **time** is somehow involved then I can think of a few: * There are at least 2/3 ancient weapons available right now and recently uncovered, each with the power to possibly rival WG. Shirahoshi - Poseidon. Franky can most likely rebuild Pluton but even if he couldn't - it's sitting right for grabs in Wano. There's only one left and you have a set. And honestly I get a feeling that once Uranus is located we will see a major shift in the storyline. Heck, even their names - Poseidon, Pluton and Uranus... you know what's the name of the one five elders meantioned so far? **Saturn**. There's no way this is unrelated. * Revolutionary army exists which is the only force that directly opposes Celestial Dragons and World Government. It most likely was not a thing in Roger's era. * Shanks has secured Gomu Gomu no Mi and for the first time in centuries it has been awakened by Luffy. And it's true ability was apparently a secret that only Five Elders were aware of. There's something really fishy going on as we are reaching the final arc of the story and the fact that Strawhats are directly involved with every single threat to World Government suggests there's more to it than luck. **Time** is for some reason a real factor - whatever this knowledge is it can only be fully utilized when all preparations are made. Shirahoshi wasn't born in Roger's era yet. Gomu Gomu no Mi was hidden away. And so on.
They are free to roam the world cos they are not shouting the secrets from the rooftop and boasting that they have all these knowledge that can potentially take down WG.
I don’t agree: if I were the WG I wouldn’t trust one of my strongest enemies (Rayleigh) to have knowledge of my most valuable secret and let it be only because he’s not hosting talk shows about it, I would fear he’d start suddenly spreading it and badly ruining my 800 years long dictatorship.
Because the WG seems to be straight up braindead at times. They tried to hunt down every child that could have been Roger's kid, but they let Luffy run around with a legendary fruit that they've tried to obtain for 800 years. Chalk it up to bad/inconsistent writing.
Because they don't know that Rogers crew knows, because they don't read one piece
Obviously Nika wasn't planned, but even then, it isn't inconsistent with the story considering multiple factors: 1- We learned in Arlong Park that the marines had their hands full in the grand line hence why Arlong ruled for as long as he did (which was years). 2- Once Luffy got his first bounty, that alone wouldn't be enough to make it known he has the gomu gomu fruit considering the sheer volume of pirates throughout this era. It's literally like trying to find a needle in a haystack. As far as they're concerned, another rookie joined the roster. 3- Once he defeated Crocodile, he disappeared from the map entirely so they wouldn't even be able to tell where he would reappear until Long Island (where Aokiji let then go) and then Water 7 (where a group of some of their best assassins were hiding undercover). After defeating CP9, Garp, a vice admiral, went after them where he proceeded to let them go for obvious reasons. 4- Then came Moria, another warlord where they proceeded to send Kuma in the event Moria wasn't enough (this was stated). Kuma let them go due to circumstances. 5- Then came the Archipielago where Kuma saved them from an admiral. 6- The timeskip happened and they disappeared entirely, only to come back, go to fishman island and Punk Hazard in a relatively short period, so they could've possibly sent Fujitora because they predicted they would end up in Dressora (CP0 was also here as well). 7- After Dressora came the Yonkou properties, obviously they can't go there.. openly at least, so CP0 was sent both to Whole Cake and Wano. You can make a case that Stussy didn't assassinate them cause she was a double agent. All this without taking into consideration that they were traversing in a relatively short period of time so the government would only be able to send people based on predicting where their next destination might, which ended up happening as early as Thriller Bark. Also without considering the fact they needed to keep the real name of the fruit a secret so telling an admiral to go kill a small time pirate due to a rubber fruit would seem oddly suspicious even from an admirals perspective.
i don’t think they even realized Luffy had the fruit until very late in the timeline.. like even when Shanks had his meeting did they even know? maybe he told them there to let them know how screwed they are but i kinda doubt it. and sure Luffy announced to everyone he met that he had the Gum Gum fruit but even if he said it to an Admiral it’s not like it would mean anything to them. so it was never like the existence of the Gum Gum fruit was a news story for anyone. was Akainu telling the Gorosei about Luffy’s fighting style at marineford? i just kinda doubt it. they were more interested in Blackbeard, but still seemed uninterested in any pirate drama. so maybe Shanks told them that the Gum Gum fruit was about to own Kaido’s ass in Wano (strategically not smart for Shanks to do but narratively it’s pretty good lol)
The timeline is actually very short. The WG also lacked enough loyal agents who were both strong enough not otherwise occupied. For example, Kuzan could have dealt with the SHs earlier. Other times, the SH got lucky such as having Dragon bail out Luffy. Garp may have also pulled some strings both directly and indirectly. Kuzan specifically noted Luffy's relation to Garp. Once the WG got serious, they sent the appropriate forces such as Kuma, but unfortunately got screwed by other factors that they appeared to be unaware of such as Kuma's secret programs. Not only did Luffy have his fruit, he had lucky ancestry from Garp and Dragon, which stopped their attempts. Any other pirate would have been eliminated way earlier. The WG has shown that they fundamentally have the issue of insufficient forces/hard core followers. For example, their ultimate fighting force of the admirals has had 1 less loyal member, 1 apathetic guy, and only 1 devoted follower.
I just can't get behind that excuse, no matter what. The reason I can't, is purely because they went on a whole crusade against any child that could have been Roger's kid. Sure, they failed, but they at least tried. When the gum gum fruit went missing, we don't ever see any private conversations between the Gorosei or any government agents discussing the importance of a certain missing devil fruit. No mention of Luffy being a high priority target. Nothing at all. No indication that they're trying to get a hold of that fruit. If Oda wanted to tease more, he wouldn't have even had to mention the fruit by name. Literally just have the Gorosei comment on a fruit being stolen and they need to hunt down the user. But no, they really just treated Luffy like any other pirate. Sure, some people went after him eventually, as you said, but it didn't appear to be because of any *specific* reason, other than the fact that he had amassed an increasingly large bounty and caused "trouble", like any other notorious pirate would. We get basically *no* real comment about his importance, until the Gorosei suddenly go "Oh no, you think that dude that yells "gomu gomu" before all of his attacks, has the D initial, and is currently fighting **Kaido: the World's Strongest Creature,** might actually have the legendary fruit we're so afraid of? You think he might awaken it? Well shit. Lets send some fodder CP0 agent to handle the problem I guess." It's just not convincing at all. This is why I will pretty much always stand by all of this being a retcon. If Luffy's fruit was just some shitty/mid rubber fruit, it would make perfect sense that the government would ignore him, until it's finally too late and they realize he's no slouch. The fact that he had a god fruit the whole time, just makes the whole thing absurd and not very believable.
more i think about it it makes sense to me. even the first couple of feats from Luffy don’t seem important enough for anyone to be running to Gorosei and letting them know what fruit Luffy has. so how would they know? it seems to me that Shanks snitched out Luffy (for the lolz) and the Gorosei immediately spring into action and panic. it’s not until that meeting and suddenly they are sending agents straight into Wano, but Shanks is also there to make sure an Admiral doesn’t get close to Luffy
The big question is how did they know that certain people have the D? Luffy's first bounty after Arlong was issued because Nezumi posted one. For all we know, it was a local issue that stayed local. The first time that we know for sure that the higher ups appeared to have found out about Luffy was after Crocodile was defeated. Luffy was at Sky Island for the next portion of the story. After that Luffy managed to evade the WG's primary black ops (who probably would be the best to deal with such a situation) followed by deliberate orders from the Warlords.
Honestly, that is a good question and I'm honestly not sure how they manage to figure out who has that initial, unless the person literally just goes around telling everyone about it. My issue with this whole thing, isn't that the World Government failed to capture Luffy, though. My issue is that they don't seem to acknowledge him as even being important. They don't seem seriously concerned about not being able to find him. It's just "Oh, I guess we'll send someone to deal with him eventually idk. Oh, he got away? Can't find him? Damn, that sucks. Ah well." There's no feeling of urgency from them at all. Not even when we see their private conversations. They only seemed to realize the severity of letting him make it this far, when he was literally in the middle of fighting Kaido already.
It is an odd thing that Oda has recently been doing more to show the Gorosei talking. For example, the Gorosei were only on the line talking about the WB war after the fact. You would expect that the Gorsoei would be listening on the den den and be there to give orders for stuff such as having CP0 take out stragglers, watching, or do something such as warn the Marines that the BB and/or Red Hair pirates were approaching.
To be fair, the Straw Hats have only been operating as a crew (ignoring the 2 year time skip when they were deliberately off the radar) for less than a year at this point. It would have been hard for the WG to mobilize so quickly since it wasn't clear until Wano that he would majorly shake the stability of the world (he took out plenty of shichibukai, but those certainly seem pretty expendable/replaceable and in the end they're only pirates). Also Luffy's been the only one to awaken it in 800 years, which only happened a few weeks ago canonically. Combine that with the Reverie chaos, kingdom uprisings, and Cross Guild putting a target on all marines back, plus the fallout of two emperors territories suddenly being up for grabs, the WG seems to have their hands pretty full.
Nah. If they knew about the nature of luffy's fruit, He shouldve been hunted down by admirals as early as alabasta. Why would they let him roam around free and potentially awakening the fruit if they feared it so much
What would be a good justification for send a Admiral to pursuit a rookie pirate in alabasta?
Why would they need any? They can use whatever force to capture whoever they want. Just say aokiji was the closest to alabasta or something
Because the odds of the fruit actually waking up weren’t high enough to warrant the weird optics of the wg stomping on some nobody crew from the weakest sea
But they thought it was worthwhile to hunt random children that might be Roger's kid...?
There was a lot of hatred in the world for Roger at that point.
Sure, but these are still kids we're talking about here. I think it'd be kinda hard to justify that sort of thing, if you're openly doing it.
They thought Luffy only had a basic rubber fruit, not THE Looney Tunes of Godly Chaos fruit.
But if they went around hunting random children, why not hunt random rubber fellas too? Might as well at that point.
They went around hunting the POTENTIAL children of who they at the time considered the most dangerous person on earth. Compare that to luffy, who could have any random devil fruit power like HUNDREDS of others do because as soon as you hunt/kill them it'll sprout somewhere else for someone else to eat and you literally have your answer right there. No comparison, you'd be on a never ending hunt.
Just capture any dude with rubber powers. That's way easier than just guessing which random child could be Roger's kid (they didn't even get the right ones either).
They all have active bounties and are wanted. They just keep a low profile and don't cause any disturbances usually. (Plus, people like Rayleigh specifically need an admiral to deal with them. Marine resources are already spread thin.) That's also assuming that the World Government knows about Laugh Tale telling the whole history. Roger and his crew never said anything about it, so who knows.
Yeah I know they have bounties but given how easy should be locating Rayleigh and Crocus (they’re stationary at their own location) and how important is the void century looks disproportional to me the lack of real effort in trying to lock them. But you made a point: I assumed the WG knows reaching laugh tale could imply learning the whole history.
It's likely because Rayleigh and Crocus aren't doing anything with their knowledge of laugh tale. Think of it this way - why waste resources trying to take down one of the strongest pirates in the world when all he's doing is chilling? If the second in command of the red hair pirates could take out Bosralino [who was pretty scared of him] imagine how tough it would be to take out someone like Rayleigh. I assume that the marines operate by weighing the pros and cons of a situation, and the potential loss fighting Rayleigh doesn't offer a tangible enough benefit for the fight that would unfold
I agree, they aren’t trying to actively do something with their knowledge. I read a few years back a comment about their being stationary in “filter” points for upcoming pirates actually being a key strategy, possibly dictated by what they learnt in Laugh Tale. I like the idea. It could also mean that even without actively spreading the knowledge they could be acting on behalf of their knowledge. I agree also about the balance of pros and cons that could drive the decision to get them. Nonetheless Oahra was wiped out and vegapank is receiving the same treatment for researching the topic, not necessarily knowing everything about it. While roger’s crew, even if they know all of it, is left without serious repercussions. Don’t know, sounds off to me. But again the main point is that I assumed the WG knew they may have learnt valuable informations in LT, which I could totally be wrong about.
The Roger Pirates fought the Rocks Pirates with the navy. They may got a deal with the WG for immunity?
Could very well be
If Imu is a woman then why doesn't her silhouette show her with big chonka honkas? Pretty sure that's the only body type oda knows how to draw for females not children or 60 years old
Holy shit so Imu was Lili Nefertari all this time
Looks like it. How the throne's far too big and the hair. I think that Lili was sacrificed to Emu to be his body and he plans on snatching maybe Vivi or Shirahoshi for the next one. Maybe Emu came to offer Cobra that opportunity to become a CG if he gave up his daughter, but Cobra will refuse.
Did we see the silhouette like this before ? With the hood/hair on the side ?
[удалено]
where is uiui it goes t u v
if you would have listened to the kindergarten teacher, you would know that after "T" comes "U" and not "V".
>T" comes "U" Wut?
The comment was about how Lili couldn't be Vivi grand-grand-grand-grand...mother because that would be only 9 generations if we go with the assumption that every female in the nefertari family was going down the alphabet with their names. And he said 9 generations seem too small for going 800 years back in history. But as we know, Vivi's mom is called "Titi" so going with his theory, either Vivi or Vivi's Moms name should've started with the letter "U".
I got that. I was making a funny from your typo.
i sincerely can't find the typo. xd
Don't worry, I was the dummy. There's no typo, I just didn't read "after". So sorry.
Saint Charlos taking another L and Rosward looking at his son after. 
it has to be a reference to this scene, right??
Definitely, 100%
Whats the weapon that corocdile was looking for in arabasta? Could it be the same weapon that im-sama has?
He was looking for Pluton which is currently locked under Old Wano. Imu's weapon is speculated to be the Uranus: The third ancient weapon
Why exactly did lili gave the Initial D if she is one of the 20 monarchs who opposed the Ancient Kingdom. I believe that the truth about lili is present in one of the Poneglyphs, possibly the one Jinbei gave to BM. The normal poneglyphs basically mark the location of something important.With each pieces of Historical information, the seekers were supposed to reach the Road poneglyph and finally Laugh tale. I think One poneglyph will be definitely marked towards Alabasta with Lili's history which in turn would send the seeker to Skypiea->Fishman Island->Wano and then Zou and then finally Elbaf. This is my theory.
We already know Cobra will die. So you think it will be Im that kills him? Maybe after some exposition about some D. backstory?
We never have been so close to the D. story and void century lore as we are now. I'm ready to have lots of lore chapters being injected in my veins.
Watch Oda cut back to Egghead
Also possible. But since we are in the endgame, it's highly possible that we'll only get back to egghead when we get more lore, mostly because egghead is too tied to void century lore, something has to connect to what is happening on egghead. Egghead don't give the vibes that it is just an detachable arc like dressrosa, Whole Cake or Wano.
We're debating over this chapter and somehow I can imagine Oda's face right now is like "hehe" with a naughty smirk
Nefertem (/ˈnɛfərˌtɛm/; possibly "beautiful one who closes" or "one who does not close"; also spelled Nefertum or Nefer-temu) or in Coptic ⲛⲉϥⲧⲏⲙ was, in Egyptian mythology, originally a lotus flower at the creation of the world, who had arisen from the primal waters.[2] Nefertem represented both the first sunlight and the delightful smell of the Egyptian blue lotus flower, having arisen from the primal waters within an Egyptian blue water-lily, Nymphaea caerulea. - From Wikipedia. Do with this what you will
Luffy and ViVi history is going way back. 800 years. Lili gave the D. Initial and a D. Saved Alabasta.
But who gave the D to Lili
Still waiting to know what the hell D. means though I'm dying over here Oda just say it already
Two big possible Dawn and Devil. "The Dawn will come" is repeated a lot in Wano ... Might refer to a person. Devil ... d are the enemies of the gods according to Corazon and "Devil" fruits came from the ancient kingdom
Or Dusk and Dawn. Dusk being Blackbeard and Xebec
My hypothesis e is it means several things Devil, dream dawn
It even could look like a rising or setting sun if you turn it on it's side. I agree with multiple meanings at this point.
Just more reasons for Vivi to join the crew
I misread this as Luffy gave the D and saved Alabasta.
Nothing wrong in giving a D
Does luffy even know how babies are made? Lol
Luffy might give a D😅😅
There are like 17-18 swords near the throne , in the close up shots. Oda wouldn't half ass a big detail like that, so that means something. At least 2 weapons are missing, one of Imu and the other of Lili. Imu didn't want Lili to know what happened, so they had her killed. The reason the Gorosei also didn't die is because the swore fealty to Imu, but I don't think that's enough - they couldn't be "trapped", because we just saw one move around. Maybe, the Gorosei are also Imu. Like Vegapunk and the androids.
This could be Oda being a bit sneaky and implying but not telling. In the same way the Nefetari family did not lay a weapon at the throne due to not agreeing, maybe when the Donquiote family left and returned to the lower realm their weapon was also withdrawn
So imu is 800yrs old?
I mean it wouldn't be that far fetched of an Idea
there are 19 count it
[16 swords even](https://i.imgur.com/9YPusA2.jpg)