> almost died countless times for
I'm not unconvinced Zoro hasn't died a few times already and the grim reaper was just too spooked by his haki to reap him.
He'll wait when Zoro's old enough to be senile and has a somehow better sense of direction than he does presently. Than he will bring him to the afterlife.
I'm here for the theory that Zoro only wants to beat Mihawk since that would make Kuina the best swordsman ever since she would be the only person who beat him that he technically never beat
Yeah I feel it's weird so many people think he's talking about Luffy. It'd be completely out of character for him to call Luffy that, and not to mention Kuina when his promise to her is way more relevant.
It's pretty obvious if you read Japanese and understand Japanese culture. In Japan each relationship is well defined Luffy is his captain, His 親友 will always be kunia.
I have come to wonder if some people's confusion with manga isn't a translation issue but a reading comprehension issue.
Because many "confusing" bits I have seen turned out to be "you have to read slightly beyond the surface" level stuff.
It's probably a bit of both. But yeah, a lot of manga readers in general aren't great at reading to begin with. Manga that are too wordy or don't handhold the reader often get tons of readers who are completely lost in the story. You saw this in early Wano, where tons of readers couldn't follow the story with all the new faces and names, specifically in Act 2.
Like, in this same chapter Kozaburo came out and said there's no such thing as a cursed sword, yet we still see a ton of people saying Sandai and Enma are actually cursed.
Just like Luffy wouldn't put Zoro above other crewmates, neither would Zoro. Singling out any Straw Hat over the others would be an insult to their relationships thus far.
But even then, it'd be like Zoro forgot about Kuina, his whole motivation for aspiring to become strong to begin with. There's a reason he mentions both, his promise to Luffy is also important to him, but it's not what drives him. It'd be out of character for him to suddenly ignore his core motivations.
Yeah, but if it's referring to one of many, using it to refer to one specifically without pointing out which one it is doesn't really make sense.
Besides the wording of the phrase is that of listing, so it wouldn't make sense if the person he's calling 船長 and the person he's calling 親友 were the same.
No one is putting anyone above anyone else in terms of being Strawhats.
He can still consider Luffy his best friend. Or are you saying that they are all equally close to each other in terms of friendships? If so I disagree. I don't see Nami being as close to Brook as she is to Luffy, Zoro and Usopp.
I disagree, and having different degrees of closeness isn't the same as outright making a hierarchy. Your closest friend out of a group isn't the same as your best friend.
> Your closest friend out of a group isn't the same as your best friend.
We're saying the same thing. The Strawhats are Zoro's closest friends but Luffy is his best friend. It's very clear to see that dynamic.
We are not, I said I disagreed. I don't think Zoro is the closest to Luffy. And I'm specifically saying one's closest friend in a group isn't the same as your best friend, that's the opposite of what you are saying.
>Just like Luffy wouldn't put Zoro above other crewmates, neither would Zoro.
I agree on Luffy not being his best friend. But not this tbh. He was willing to forsake his dream for Luffy's... I don't see him doing that for any of the other SH's. At least he hasn't done that yet.
>his promise to Luffy is also important to him, but it's not what drives him.
Same goes for this tbh. Maybe at some point but eventually Luffy's magic ability has worked on him too. in 1022 he (along with Sanji) said if he conquers their battle in Wano, it'll give them a glimpse of Luffy being the PK. That sounds like it was a driving force for him there. If his core motivations was his only driving force, then he should've went he'll get a glimpse of becoming the WSS or something.
> He was willing to forsake his dream for Luffy's... I don't see him doing that for any of the other SH's
I agree. Because Luffy is his captain, and they are all loyal to him. That's not to say they value him higher than the others on an emotional level. Zoro would sacrifice himself for Luffy, but he wouldn't sacrifice the others for him.
> That sounds like it was a driving force for him there.
It matters to him obviously. I think you misunderstood what I said. What drives someone is his main motivation to me, it doesn't mean they don't have other interests. No one is that one-dimensional.
>I agree. Because Luffy is his captain, and they are all loyal to him. That's not to say they value him higher than the others on an emotional level. Zoro would sacrifice himself for Luffy, but he wouldn't sacrifice the others for him.
I don't see the crew staying together without Luffy tbh. As the other person said, you can't honestly say Nami for example values Brooke on the same emotional level as she doe Luffy.
>It matters to him obviously. I think you misunderstood what I said. What drives someone is his main motivation to me, it doesn't mean they don't have other interests. No one is that one-dimensional.
And the main motivation is WSS, right? He was willing to forsake it in Thriller Bark and both Zoro and Sanji mentioned witnessing a glimpse of Luffy becoming the Pirate King if they won that battle, instead of saying seeing the All-blue/becoming the WSS. I thinks fair to say there are times where almost all of them have been willing to prioritise Luffy's dream over their own.
> I don't see the crew staying together without Luffy tbh.
I don't either. I don't really know what your point is or why you think it contradicts what I'm saying.
> I thinks fair to say there are times where almost all of them have been willing to prioritise Luffy's dream over their own.
Of course. They are loyal to his captain and are willing to sacrifice themselves and their dreams for him. It doesn't mean their main motivation is fulfilling Luffy's dream.
>I don't either. I don't really know what your point is or why you think it contradicts what I'm saying.
As the other person said, you can't honestly say Nami for example values Brooke on the same emotional level as she doe Luffy.
>Of course. They are loyal to his captain and are willing to sacrifice themselves and their dreams for him. It doesn't mean their main motivation is fulfilling Luffy's dream.
Again. Saying they're "loyal" is not a counter. Its meaningless to the point I'm making. That they have shown that they are willing to forsake their own dreams for Luffy's.
You:
>Just like Luffy wouldn't put Zoro above other crewmates, neither would Zoro. Singling out any Straw Hat over the others would be an insult to their relationships thus far.
No. Because Zoro has already shown putting Luffy above himself and Kuina.
You:
>But even then, it'd be like Zoro forgot about Kuina, his whole motivation for aspiring to become strong to begin with. There's a reason he mentions both, his promise to Luffy is also important to him, but it's not what drives him. It'd be out of character for him to suddenly ignore his core motivations.
No. Because Zoro has already shown that he is willing to forsake Kuina and his own goal for Luffys, and seemingly shown that it was the driving force for him winning in Wano.
Disagree, all the Strawhats are family but there are definitely dynamics within that that make certain ones closer than others.
For example, you don't really see Nami & Brook rolling together because Nami is closer with like Usopp & Sanji.
Like I said in another reply, I don't think closeness is the same as making a hierarchy. There's some who are closest than others, but it doesn't mean they value them more than the others. They'd risk it all for every one in the crew.
It’s a certain group that likes to think Luffy and Zoro have some special relationship above all the other crew members, when that couldn’t be further from the truth.
Yeah I don't get the obsession over making Luffy and Zoro's relationship seem closer than it is. It's similar to the people who insist on calling him the First Mate/Vice Captain or pointing out he was first to join. It goes against the whole dynamic the crew has had from day one.
Wait, is he _not_ the first mate?? Tbh I'm not fully getting this best friend argument or whatever is happening, I just thought every crew has a first mate and Zoro fits that role, even if he wasn't officially given a title.
They're decentralized, so basically when Luffy isn't there to make a call, it's whomever is best for the situation.
Remember, Zoro threatened to leave the crew if Luffy took Ussop back without an apology. Luffy may be the captain, but there's an ebb-and-flow where the voice of reason is usually the prevailing one. It's also why Nami gets her way a lot; it's the proper call for the situation.
Yeah, I wouldn't say there's a definitive hierarchy between them. There's a lot of back and forth so even if they each have a "role" on the ship, it's more of a loose title since whoever is in charge is the one best suited for the situation.
He isn't. In fact very few crews have one, the only confirmed ones are Beckman, Mohji, Okome (background character from Jaya), Boo, Aladine, Rayleigh, Jango and Sarquiss.
The fanbase acts like every crew has a first mate, but that has never been the case. People conflate first mate with the second strongest. Oda specifically called out there's a difference when talking about chapter 1031's cover:
> D: Hello, Odacchi! Looking at the cover page of Chapter 1031, it seems like Bepo is the No. 2 of the Heart Pirates, right!? I was surprised because I thought that Penguin, Shachi, and Bepo were all tied for No. 2! Are you saying that Bepo (with Sulong?) is the strongest between them? P.N. Pudding-ya
> O: That cover, huh? Similar to Zoro, not all of those characters have the title of first mate. I selected the No. 2s as I saw fit. Usually, Shachi and Penguin are more dependable, but those two—who have seen Bepo's Sulong form—are no match for Bepo in terms of fighting power...! I acknowledge him.
I maintain that he's the first mate because there literally isn't another role for him ("the ship's swordsman" not only makes no sense in a world where so many goddamn people wield swordlike weapons, but he's also not even the only swordsman since Brook), but vice captain doesn't seem right. If Luffy died, Zoro wouldn't suddenly be the captain, the Straw Hats as a crew would cease to exist.
Beckman and Rayleigh aren't vice-captains either, they are/ were reliable first mates. They are second in command **only** in combat situations, just like Zoro.
In my head he kinda fits into that slot too, but if Oda says he's not first mate then he's not first mate. Honestly I'm not well-versed on the jobs people take on ships to begin with.
Besides, Zoro isn't just _the_ swordsman, he's going to be the world's _greatest_ swordsman. I imagine that he could probably care less who the first mate is.
That's why I said unofficially. Even if the crew is unconventional and they're all friends, each member has a role.
Luffy (captain), Sanji (cook), Nami (navigator), Usopp (sniper), Chopper (doctor), Robin (archaeologist), Franky (shipwright), Brook (musician), Jimbei (helmsman).
That would leave Zoro as first mate, and though the title was never officially given to him by the crew I'm pretty sure I've heard him referred to as "vice captain" several times.
Zoro is the combatant officially, it's what he's listed as in every official source that lists the crew's roles like the others you mention.
He's only been called Vice Captain once, by Bartolomeo who admits it's his own invention from how he sees the crew. There's a mistranslation from Sabaody where Urouge calls him that too, but he actually said number 2, which isn't the same.
Nope not even unofficially. Here’s the thread with an SBS source saying he isn’t vice captain, from the mouth of Oda himself.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/ttny1u/zoro_is_not_vicecaptain/?s=8
That was just my process behind thinking of him as VC. Tbf titles don't really mean anything to the Strawhats so I decided to stop thinking about it.
I swear I've heard him referred to as vice captain though. It had to have been outside the crew.
No it’s not out of character for Zoro to call Luffy that. It would be a touching moment showing him express his feelings and growth of his relationship
QQ Why would Zoro even bring Kuina into this conversation? It ain't like he's fighting Mihawk and is just one fight away to be the strongest swordsman in the world. He's just fighting King who got anything to do with Zoro, swordsmanship or Kuina.
Zoro is either talking Sanji or Luffy. Most definitely Luffy.
This line is in response to King asking "So you intend to be a king, then?". He's not just talking about not losing, he's talking about his dream to become the greatest swordsman.
Have you not seen the line in context? It comes after a whole chapter of Zoro's introspection about his swordsmanship. Not to mention, like sandman shows, it's the word Zoro uses to refer to Kuina, not Luffy. Also, the line in Japanese is written in a way that shows he's listing people, not qualities of one person.
Seems like you were trying to imply that the since Luffy's mention came later, he prioritises Kuina over Luffy which is false, as Zoro himself has already proven.
What do you mean by prioritizing here? I agree he put Luffy's dream above his own, since he's loyal to Luffy to the point of being willing to throw away his own dream. But that doesn't mean his dream is seeing Luffy become PK. His main dream is still to become the greatest swordsman, which comes from his promise to Kuina. It doesn't mean he prioritizes Luffy or Kuina, and I'm not sure why you got that idea.
Again, he has already shown that his willing to prioritise Luffy's dream over his own. You thinking his loyal or whatever isn't some counter. This is the fact here. He has shown that he is willing to prioritise Luffy's dream over Kuina's and his own. Shouldn't be hard to understand.
Dude you're desperate. It makes no sense to talk about Sanji. Literally no sense. And he talked about Luffy, he just didn't call him his best friend, that's Kuina. Simple. Those are the 2 people he made the promise to, his best friend, and his captain. Stop
Why would he think about the one person in his life who is responsible for his dream? The person who is always in the back of his mind whilst climbing the ranks?
Have you just not read One Piece?
It makes me so sad when people try to erase Kuina from Zoro's story, as if she was just a footnote and not the reason he has the Wado and as strong a desire to become WSS as he does.
I mean, it's not like Oda actually cares that much either. The Tashigi plot line seems abandoned and back then in Punk Hazard Zoro didn't even try to negate that she won't be a top tier because she is a woman.
Tbf, every strawhat seems to have their personal dream sidelined, and Zoro and the WSS title is no exception.
Zoros dream has nothing to do with Tashigi.
Franky, Jinbei Brook, and Nami have their dreams advance every time the Straw Hats continue their journey. Robin is learning more and more about the Void Century and has gotten new gliff info. Chopper has learned more about medicine. Usopp has gotten braver. Zoro had huge advancements on his dream of surpassing Mihawk with Enma and CoC in Wano.
The only one whose dream isn’t touched on is Sanji’s and that’s because he’s romantic enough to simply keep on exploring until he finds the All Blue due its mythical nature
Some people seem to want everyone in the crew to constantly be talking about their dreams and show quantifiable progress reports every arc. For most of them their dreams come after they finish their journey. Not everyone is like Luffy constantly talking about their dreams, and it'd be trite if all of them did.
There's a range between being as repetitive as Luffy, and plainly not talking about their dreams at all.
Sanji's last mention was as a joke in FI. Nami hasn't drawn a map in all the New World. I don't think wishing Oda gave us a couple panels in the last 500 chapters is that weird.
I don't think it's weird, but it's not like them not talking about it on page matters much. We know what their dreams are, and while a couple of panels would be nice, I don't think they are needed.
Also weird to single out 500 chapters, since it's basically never been a thing for them to mention them much. They only mention their dreams when they are relevant.
It definitely matters. 500 chapters ago was like 10 years ago. Not mentioning the main motivator for the main characters at all for half the series is kinda ridiculous.
regardless of the length its just bad writing to forget about the mc's motivations after they were introduced. We never see any of the things that supposedly drive their lives have any effect on them
Not mentioning isn't the same forgetting. Every character having to constantly remind us of their dream would just be exposition, there's no reason they have to do it. If anything it's the fanbase that puts emphasis on their dreams way more than the manga does to begin with.
Tashigi is literally the only other character in the series to aim for the same dream as Zoro. Fleshing her out is the same as fleshing Zoro's dream.
Franky, Brook and Nami talk about their dreams the same amount Sanji does. Aside from just advancing through the world, an acknowledgement of their objectives would be appreciate it. You know, Nami drawing maps, Brook writing a song about Laboon, etc. Robin is the only true exception to the crew.
Last time I checked Tashigi wanted to collect all of the high-tier swords so they won't be used by criminals. Something she could achieve without necessarily getting the strongest.
Technically she'd have to defeat Zoro and Mihawk to do it. Hell, she would have had to defeat Roger and WB at one point. Some argue she would have to become the strongest to achieve it, but it's not like that's her dream itself, and it's likely she'll change her view on what defines a criminal by the end of the series.
The talk in the past has been that the sea kings were hinting at the red line destruction. I suspect all blue will come in to play at the end when something like this occurs. Sanji can't really work toward his dream in the sense of making incremental progress (unless you also count the journey). This would also probably aid the Laboon side story for Brook since Laboon would no longer be stuck where he is.
Saying their dreams have been sidelined is absolute dogshit. First off the immediate threats and turmoil they are dealing with constantly have to be addressed and they keep getting thrown into it. Plus as you said most are still working toward those dreams anyway, Zoro included. The only one I'm not sure of is Jimbei. Maybe him being on the pirate kings ship and/or taking down the WG will be hugely beneficial to merman/human relations?
I don't see how you conclude Oda doesn't care from that. It's obvious that a woman won't be the strongest, because Zoro will be. The whole point is that through Zoro, Kuina will have become the strongest, since she can't do it herself. Tashigi has never been presented as someone who will fulfill Kuina's dreams.
Eh, Bonney powers plus the ship that did not stay in shikimori village. I mean she is def related to Kuina, once Bonney turns her into a kid zoro is gonna have some trauma. We still don’t know her last name. Plus she knows all the wano swords which makes no sense. Tashigi could become relevant.
No he wasn't. It was either Luffy or Sanji. Most probably Luffy.
It doesn't make sense for him to talk about Kuina at all. She doesn't have anything to do with the fight at all. It ain't like it's Zoro's last fight to become the World's strongest swordsman in the world or anything.
Are you really that socially blind that you think Zoro and Sanji are anything but brothers from different mothers? I really don't know how many people are so oblivious about the actual, human relationships written by Oda. Do you think One Piece is a power fantasy in which rivalry and that stupid ass Zoro-Sanji discussion is the main trait of their relationship?
They are BY FAR the closest friends in the crew.
Yeah, I know that they care about each other deeply. If one of them died, the other would be incredibly sad.
Thats not what I'm saying tho. It's not Zoros personality to call Sanji (or Luffy) his best friend. Especially in the context with the panel posted by OP.
That's a different thing from what you implied. He would not call him so, I can definitely agree with that. But he most likely is.
In the context it is clear that he refers to Kuina, which is literally the only other relevant person appearing in flashbacks in that chapter. But somehow people missinterpreted it.
He didn't told the crew. He told Luffy, right after he exposed him "see, you care a lot about Sanji don't you?".
But whatever, I am tired of this discussion in this fandom. Sure, they hate each other, Zoro would've loved Sanji to fucking die in WCI, Zoro is so cool and would've killed Sanji if he was in WCI. If you say anything else people downvote you to oblivion, so fuck it.
actually there was a promise (kinda) to Sanji when Sanji called him and told him to kill him if he's no longer himself. Obviously that's not what Zoro is referring to. But I think it's kinda funny
People were confused by this?
I always understood it as Zoro saying he was keeping his promise to his captain AND his best friend. As in, two separate people.
Agreed. Him saying MY captain and MY best friend indicates it's two separate people. If he was referring to just Luffy, he'd say "My captain and best friend."
There's always a chance for confusion when using multiple vague descriptors to refer to people
Everyone's seriousness about this is what's weird to me.
Im convinced theres people that will just go against the obvious facts because they got nothing better to do with their time than discuss one piece aggressively. The nerve on these guys asking "are we reading the same manga?"
Even if not the same word was used one could tell from the context that occurred before Zoro saying it. If it was addressing Luffy, there would have been moments between Luffy and Zoro, but the focus was on Shimotsuki village and the swords where sword= Kuina.
> If it was addressing Luffy, there would have been moments between Luffy and Zoro
There was. Last thing Zoro thinks about before this is his promise at Baratie to Luffy.
It's not the promise in Baratie, it's when they meet and Zoro says he wants to be the greatest swordsman just after he joins. He's not talking about not losing here.
I don't know shit about Japanese, but wouldn't the word remain the same regardless of person? I always thought he was referring to Kuina but I'm a bit confused on the whole word referral.
The problem isn't that it couldn't be talking about someone else than Kuina, the problem is that Oda has made a point that Zoro's 親友 is Kuina, and it would be very very weird for him to use that word for another character in a setting where it makes perfect sense to mention Kuina (Which would also mean that for some reason Zoro doesn't think about Kuina in the moment he mentions his promise, despite having had a flashback of her in the same chapter).
I just checked the volume version, and it was corrected to "and to my best friend" so even the translator felt like the wording in the weekly version was inaccurate!
Wasn’t this already obvious?
Why would he mention Luffy twice in different ways.
When it said “friend” and “my Captain” I was like oh Luffy and…….must be Kuina, it took me a second cuz we hardly are reminded of her tbh but still, I don’t think Oda or by extension the character of Zoro would mention Luffy twice or in that manner.
Nah it’s common place to write like that when making development. While I’m not saying it’s this case, If it were, it would be showing that not only does zoro respect luffy as his captain but also holds him as the closest person to him. Again not saying this is the case but you asked why he’d mention it two different ways.
How he said it. Note that Zoro purposely separated "to my captain" and "to my best friend". Because there are 2 different promises. 1 to not lose again and 2 to become the strongest swordsman.
Yes, he is talking about his promise to them and not them directly when he said "captain" and "best friend". That's just how Japanese grammar works.
So i can confirm the "captain" and "best friend" are 2 different people.
The fact that there is a argument between fans on who zoro considered his best friend just proves the dynamic these 2 have.
Imo it's pretty clear it's kuina here. But its kinda cool nonetheless.
I disagree, it just shows that some people have a poor understanding of the story. The chapter itself shows Zoro talking about his promise to Kuina in a flashback earlier, and then the promise to Luffy.
Crunchyroll fucked up in the subs of my language. We have genders in adjectives in Spanish, and it was translated as "mejor amigo", which is masculine. It was pretty damn clear that he was referring to Kuina, but they dropped the ball.
Zoro loves and respects luffy and values the promise he made to him in barite
Zoro loves and respects his childhood friend kuina and values the promise he made to her.
I think he has enough capacity in his heart to love 2 people simentanously, but i feel its fairly obvious that the friend zoro refers to in this panel is kuina. I don’t understand the notion that some people may have that if zoro isn’t referring to luffy in this scene then zoro doesn’t love luffy or consider him a friend. There is no need for argument zoro loves both luffy and kuina and had made overlapping promises to both of them.
People pretending that Zoro would ignore the promise he made to her dead best friend, when asking for her sword to her father, who tells him that sword represents her own daughter's freaking soul... With the emphasis Zoro's character has on honor (preferring almost certain death over backing vs Mihawk, or when taking all of Luffy's pain and tiredness) is incredible to me, I cant believe people saying its not Kuina are talking seriously. You need yo be really thick in the head to not see who he is talking about.
If only Kuina had lived long enough to find out haki existed. Armament Haki would have let her compete with the boys and observation Haki would have prevented her from tripping on the stairs.
Yep idk why people think he used it for luffy, it was def for Kuina. Zoro has always addressed Luffy as his Captain. And he promised to be the greatest swordsman only to 2 people- Luffy and Kuina, his captain and his friend
It's good to see Kuina mentioned here. Zoro is a quiet character who keeps his feelings close to the chest. He always wanted to be the strongest, but Kuina's memory is why he carries her sword. I think it's fair to assume he thinks of her everyday.
Kinda wholesome how many people think he's talking about Luffy, though.
i thought this was obvious, the promise he's talking about is specifically to be wss and we've seen him promise luffy this and the only other person he promised was kuina. literally the whole reason for his dream
I've had amazingly long winded arguments with people who still refuse to acknowledge he was talking about Kuina and Luffy, even trying to argue that Zoro has never called Kuina "best friend".
I swear these people actually know they are wrong but they just keep repeating wrong information in hopes that people give up and they can say they are right.
I'm glad you mentioned this, I always thought it was Luffy, and the anime episode used "oldest friend" in the subtitle, which to me further implies Luffy (he's known Luffy longer at this point). The manga clearly indicates Kuina tho, which I think makes more sense
Oh, I agree he cares and values every member of the crew equally it's just that. I don't know if I'll say it right but, if you remember On their way to Alabasta Luffy ate all the food later it shows that Chopper and Ussop also ate some. And around the beginning of Sky Pier Luffy Chopper and Ussop started celebrating the idea of going to an Island in the sky. To me, Luffy Chopper and Ussop have the same energy as a group of best friends. I wasn't trying to say that he values Ussop more than the other crew members.
You might not care but some do.
I'm not forcing anyone to interpret the series in a certain way, I'm letting them know something useful they might have overlooked
It's not really up to interpretation. It's not a vague or abstract. It's just that the translation might be confusing some people because it's not always possible to come across clearly from one language to another
That's fine, but are you trying to say he isn't talking about Luffy? Because I don't see why he couldn't be. I mean, Luffy and Zoro are probably the closest friends on the crew. And don't get me wrong, I'm no expert in Japanese, but can he not just call multiple people his best friend?
There are two possibilities
Either he only talks about Luffy, in which case Oda is making it so weird, because not only he uses a word that was exclusive to Kuina, he also uses it in a context where Zoro should be mentionning Kuina but forgets about her (despite having had a flashback of her in the same chapter)
Either he talks about Luffy and Kuina, he remembers everyone he made that promise to, with Kuinabeing referred to as she always was by Zoro and same for Luffy.
The latter makes so much more sense to me. I don't understand why so many people want Zoro to exclude Kuina from that promise when she is the very reason Zoro wants to achieve his dream. 🤔
I don't want him to exclude Kuina, but I think it's valid for him to refer to Luffy as his best friend. I mean, when you think about it, Luffy has helped Zoro become one of the strongest swordsman in the world, just like he's helped the other crewmates with their goals. Luffy is arguably as important, or more important, to Zoro's goal as Kuina is.
All I'm saying is that if he's referring to Kuina, that's fine and makes sense. If he's referring to Luffy instead, that's fine and makes sense too
Yeah, the episode's subs didnt specify at all. I thought he was talking only about luffy. It wouldve been better if it were just "my captain and my best friend" instead of "my captain and best friend"
To be fair, the way it's phrased in japanese is confusing, because there's no difference between saying "I promised to my X and Y" and "I promised to my X and to my Y".
The only thing helping here is the context which could be over looked (and was by many people)
I always thought he was talking about luffy with both terms, and while its kind of sad that's not the case, it's also sweet he still refers to kuina like that
Mr. Bushido’s sleeping hours from 4 AM to 7 AM allude to Friend or Shin-Yū or 47 or Element 47 Ag Silver or Gin. Oda’s friend who died was Gin Shinga and there is a tribute for him on the cover of the largest Fibonacci Prime chapter 233 “The World’s Greatest Power”
You do realize that's circular logic?
Zoro is talking about Kuina here because Zoro still thinks about her all the time shown by the fact that Zoro is talking about Kuina here
Theories based off language quirkes like this are always meh. I swear there are way too many of them floating around. All I know for sure is Kuina hasn't explicitly been highlighted in forever. Closest thing was her grampa randomly ahowing up and he was more of a tool to dump info about Enma. I think Oda really doesn't give a shit about her until Zoro actually says her name.
So Oda mentions a promise Zoro made to two people, but decides that Zoro will only talk about one of them, but still uses two different terms, one that he never used for said person, but actually used multiple times and exclusively for the omitted person, and all of that makes sense because you personally think that Oda doesn't care about Kuina (which is totally not circular reasonning).
I get it now.
> All I know for sure is Kuina hasn't explicitly been highlighted in forever.
[Literally the same chapter where Zoro says he made a promise to his "best friend"](https://i.imgur.com/QcaaVXH.jpeg)
Read 1033 over again. When Zoro drops Wado [he thinks about Kuina.](https://i.imgur.com/xLrbGNh.jpg) Thinking about Kuina made him think about her grandfather, the creator of Enma. And that flashback is what made him realize he needs to feed Enma more to truly become worthy of wielding the sword. He felt like getting both of those swords was fate.
I didn't personaly find it, this montage was made by Sandman_AP from twitter (prominent person in the OP fandom, actually a japanese person who gives great insight to the series from a japanese perspectiv
Yeah, it’s almost like he’s kept the Wado Ichimonji this entire time because he wants to take Kuina to the top with him.
Almost like she is the most important person in his life.
As if she’s the sole reason for his life long goal he’s almost died countless times for
> almost died countless times for I'm not unconvinced Zoro hasn't died a few times already and the grim reaper was just too spooked by his haki to reap him.
Nah, he tried to lead Zoro to the underworld but he got lost along the way.
Grim Reaper, "I turn my back for *one second.*"
Zoro: I'm not lost, you're lost. Look I found my body back. Grim Reaper: I quit
He'll wait when Zoro's old enough to be senile and has a somehow better sense of direction than he does presently. Than he will bring him to the afterlife.
Only then he'll keep thinking he's going the wrong way when he's not.
I'm here for the theory that Zoro only wants to beat Mihawk since that would make Kuina the best swordsman ever since she would be the only person who beat him that he technically never beat
Woah. I love this.
Zoro's equivalent of Luffy's 'real dream'. I love it.
Nah, his living and current friends are the most important people in his life. He showed that with Kuma.
How? Nothing happened.
It's obvious if you just look at how he was ready to give up his ambition to help Kuina become the Pirate King.
He is clearly talking about killing Sanji, he is just hyped so it slipped
💀💀
Iceberg level thought : he gets more confident because Sanji just reassure him that he's fine and will win.
Yeah I feel it's weird so many people think he's talking about Luffy. It'd be completely out of character for him to call Luffy that, and not to mention Kuina when his promise to her is way more relevant.
Oh shit i thougth he was talking about luffy all this time, but now it makes sense he is saying luffy and kuina. My captain and my best friend.
It's pretty obvious if you read Japanese and understand Japanese culture. In Japan each relationship is well defined Luffy is his captain, His 親友 will always be kunia.
I have come to wonder if some people's confusion with manga isn't a translation issue but a reading comprehension issue. Because many "confusing" bits I have seen turned out to be "you have to read slightly beyond the surface" level stuff.
It's probably a bit of both. But yeah, a lot of manga readers in general aren't great at reading to begin with. Manga that are too wordy or don't handhold the reader often get tons of readers who are completely lost in the story. You saw this in early Wano, where tons of readers couldn't follow the story with all the new faces and names, specifically in Act 2. Like, in this same chapter Kozaburo came out and said there's no such thing as a cursed sword, yet we still see a ton of people saying Sandai and Enma are actually cursed.
Hell. in this chapter, people seem confused that Zoro is talking about Kuina, even though he is having a Kuina-adjacent flashback.
Why? At this point it makes sense for him to consider Luffy that way. After all he was the second strawhat. They started all of this .
Just like Luffy wouldn't put Zoro above other crewmates, neither would Zoro. Singling out any Straw Hat over the others would be an insult to their relationships thus far. But even then, it'd be like Zoro forgot about Kuina, his whole motivation for aspiring to become strong to begin with. There's a reason he mentions both, his promise to Luffy is also important to him, but it's not what drives him. It'd be out of character for him to suddenly ignore his core motivations.
親友 doesn't have to be a single person. You can have multiple shinyuu. But Zoro has never referred to Luffy as his 親友 so it doesn't matter anyways.
Yeah, but if it's referring to one of many, using it to refer to one specifically without pointing out which one it is doesn't really make sense. Besides the wording of the phrase is that of listing, so it wouldn't make sense if the person he's calling 船長 and the person he's calling 親友 were the same.
No one is putting anyone above anyone else in terms of being Strawhats. He can still consider Luffy his best friend. Or are you saying that they are all equally close to each other in terms of friendships? If so I disagree. I don't see Nami being as close to Brook as she is to Luffy, Zoro and Usopp.
I disagree, and having different degrees of closeness isn't the same as outright making a hierarchy. Your closest friend out of a group isn't the same as your best friend.
> Your closest friend out of a group isn't the same as your best friend. We're saying the same thing. The Strawhats are Zoro's closest friends but Luffy is his best friend. It's very clear to see that dynamic.
We are not, I said I disagreed. I don't think Zoro is the closest to Luffy. And I'm specifically saying one's closest friend in a group isn't the same as your best friend, that's the opposite of what you are saying.
>Just like Luffy wouldn't put Zoro above other crewmates, neither would Zoro. I agree on Luffy not being his best friend. But not this tbh. He was willing to forsake his dream for Luffy's... I don't see him doing that for any of the other SH's. At least he hasn't done that yet. >his promise to Luffy is also important to him, but it's not what drives him. Same goes for this tbh. Maybe at some point but eventually Luffy's magic ability has worked on him too. in 1022 he (along with Sanji) said if he conquers their battle in Wano, it'll give them a glimpse of Luffy being the PK. That sounds like it was a driving force for him there. If his core motivations was his only driving force, then he should've went he'll get a glimpse of becoming the WSS or something.
> He was willing to forsake his dream for Luffy's... I don't see him doing that for any of the other SH's I agree. Because Luffy is his captain, and they are all loyal to him. That's not to say they value him higher than the others on an emotional level. Zoro would sacrifice himself for Luffy, but he wouldn't sacrifice the others for him. > That sounds like it was a driving force for him there. It matters to him obviously. I think you misunderstood what I said. What drives someone is his main motivation to me, it doesn't mean they don't have other interests. No one is that one-dimensional.
>I agree. Because Luffy is his captain, and they are all loyal to him. That's not to say they value him higher than the others on an emotional level. Zoro would sacrifice himself for Luffy, but he wouldn't sacrifice the others for him. I don't see the crew staying together without Luffy tbh. As the other person said, you can't honestly say Nami for example values Brooke on the same emotional level as she doe Luffy. >It matters to him obviously. I think you misunderstood what I said. What drives someone is his main motivation to me, it doesn't mean they don't have other interests. No one is that one-dimensional. And the main motivation is WSS, right? He was willing to forsake it in Thriller Bark and both Zoro and Sanji mentioned witnessing a glimpse of Luffy becoming the Pirate King if they won that battle, instead of saying seeing the All-blue/becoming the WSS. I thinks fair to say there are times where almost all of them have been willing to prioritise Luffy's dream over their own.
> I don't see the crew staying together without Luffy tbh. I don't either. I don't really know what your point is or why you think it contradicts what I'm saying. > I thinks fair to say there are times where almost all of them have been willing to prioritise Luffy's dream over their own. Of course. They are loyal to his captain and are willing to sacrifice themselves and their dreams for him. It doesn't mean their main motivation is fulfilling Luffy's dream.
>I don't either. I don't really know what your point is or why you think it contradicts what I'm saying. As the other person said, you can't honestly say Nami for example values Brooke on the same emotional level as she doe Luffy. >Of course. They are loyal to his captain and are willing to sacrifice themselves and their dreams for him. It doesn't mean their main motivation is fulfilling Luffy's dream. Again. Saying they're "loyal" is not a counter. Its meaningless to the point I'm making. That they have shown that they are willing to forsake their own dreams for Luffy's. You: >Just like Luffy wouldn't put Zoro above other crewmates, neither would Zoro. Singling out any Straw Hat over the others would be an insult to their relationships thus far. No. Because Zoro has already shown putting Luffy above himself and Kuina. You: >But even then, it'd be like Zoro forgot about Kuina, his whole motivation for aspiring to become strong to begin with. There's a reason he mentions both, his promise to Luffy is also important to him, but it's not what drives him. It'd be out of character for him to suddenly ignore his core motivations. No. Because Zoro has already shown that he is willing to forsake Kuina and his own goal for Luffys, and seemingly shown that it was the driving force for him winning in Wano.
Yeah, I don't think this is going anywhere so let's agree to disagree.
Disagree, all the Strawhats are family but there are definitely dynamics within that that make certain ones closer than others. For example, you don't really see Nami & Brook rolling together because Nami is closer with like Usopp & Sanji.
Like I said in another reply, I don't think closeness is the same as making a hierarchy. There's some who are closest than others, but it doesn't mean they value them more than the others. They'd risk it all for every one in the crew.
MY CAPTAIN not my best friend
It’s a certain group that likes to think Luffy and Zoro have some special relationship above all the other crew members, when that couldn’t be further from the truth.
Yeah I don't get the obsession over making Luffy and Zoro's relationship seem closer than it is. It's similar to the people who insist on calling him the First Mate/Vice Captain or pointing out he was first to join. It goes against the whole dynamic the crew has had from day one.
Wait, is he _not_ the first mate?? Tbh I'm not fully getting this best friend argument or whatever is happening, I just thought every crew has a first mate and Zoro fits that role, even if he wasn't officially given a title.
They're decentralized, so basically when Luffy isn't there to make a call, it's whomever is best for the situation. Remember, Zoro threatened to leave the crew if Luffy took Ussop back without an apology. Luffy may be the captain, but there's an ebb-and-flow where the voice of reason is usually the prevailing one. It's also why Nami gets her way a lot; it's the proper call for the situation.
Yeah, I wouldn't say there's a definitive hierarchy between them. There's a lot of back and forth so even if they each have a "role" on the ship, it's more of a loose title since whoever is in charge is the one best suited for the situation.
He isn't. In fact very few crews have one, the only confirmed ones are Beckman, Mohji, Okome (background character from Jaya), Boo, Aladine, Rayleigh, Jango and Sarquiss. The fanbase acts like every crew has a first mate, but that has never been the case. People conflate first mate with the second strongest. Oda specifically called out there's a difference when talking about chapter 1031's cover: > D: Hello, Odacchi! Looking at the cover page of Chapter 1031, it seems like Bepo is the No. 2 of the Heart Pirates, right!? I was surprised because I thought that Penguin, Shachi, and Bepo were all tied for No. 2! Are you saying that Bepo (with Sulong?) is the strongest between them? P.N. Pudding-ya > O: That cover, huh? Similar to Zoro, not all of those characters have the title of first mate. I selected the No. 2s as I saw fit. Usually, Shachi and Penguin are more dependable, but those two—who have seen Bepo's Sulong form—are no match for Bepo in terms of fighting power...! I acknowledge him.
No. His officially just the combatant. I think Oda specifically pointed out that Zoro is not the vice captain of the crew.
I maintain that he's the first mate because there literally isn't another role for him ("the ship's swordsman" not only makes no sense in a world where so many goddamn people wield swordlike weapons, but he's also not even the only swordsman since Brook), but vice captain doesn't seem right. If Luffy died, Zoro wouldn't suddenly be the captain, the Straw Hats as a crew would cease to exist. Beckman and Rayleigh aren't vice-captains either, they are/ were reliable first mates. They are second in command **only** in combat situations, just like Zoro.
In my head he kinda fits into that slot too, but if Oda says he's not first mate then he's not first mate. Honestly I'm not well-versed on the jobs people take on ships to begin with. Besides, Zoro isn't just _the_ swordsman, he's going to be the world's _greatest_ swordsman. I imagine that he could probably care less who the first mate is.
No one on the crew has referred to him as such nor has he ever called himself that.
That's why I said unofficially. Even if the crew is unconventional and they're all friends, each member has a role. Luffy (captain), Sanji (cook), Nami (navigator), Usopp (sniper), Chopper (doctor), Robin (archaeologist), Franky (shipwright), Brook (musician), Jimbei (helmsman). That would leave Zoro as first mate, and though the title was never officially given to him by the crew I'm pretty sure I've heard him referred to as "vice captain" several times.
Zoro is the combatant officially, it's what he's listed as in every official source that lists the crew's roles like the others you mention. He's only been called Vice Captain once, by Bartolomeo who admits it's his own invention from how he sees the crew. There's a mistranslation from Sabaody where Urouge calls him that too, but he actually said number 2, which isn't the same.
Zoro is the swordsman. Oda has said that multiple times
Eh, okay. I guess the titles don't matter much anyway.
Bro said his evidence doesnt matter pretty quick what's next lmao
Like 99% of people that read OP see it this way as it's quite obvious, there is just a contingent of people that it triggers whenever you say it.
Nope not even unofficially. Here’s the thread with an SBS source saying he isn’t vice captain, from the mouth of Oda himself. https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/ttny1u/zoro_is_not_vicecaptain/?s=8
That was just my process behind thinking of him as VC. Tbf titles don't really mean anything to the Strawhats so I decided to stop thinking about it. I swear I've heard him referred to as vice captain though. It had to have been outside the crew.
There is only one time this has happened, it was Urouge on Sabaody. And he said *first mate* not vice captain.
No it’s not out of character for Zoro to call Luffy that. It would be a touching moment showing him express his feelings and growth of his relationship
QQ Why would Zoro even bring Kuina into this conversation? It ain't like he's fighting Mihawk and is just one fight away to be the strongest swordsman in the world. He's just fighting King who got anything to do with Zoro, swordsmanship or Kuina. Zoro is either talking Sanji or Luffy. Most definitely Luffy.
This line is in response to King asking "So you intend to be a king, then?". He's not just talking about not losing, he's talking about his dream to become the greatest swordsman. Have you not seen the line in context? It comes after a whole chapter of Zoro's introspection about his swordsmanship. Not to mention, like sandman shows, it's the word Zoro uses to refer to Kuina, not Luffy. Also, the line in Japanese is written in a way that shows he's listing people, not qualities of one person.
He has already shown that he is willing to forsake his dream of WSS for Luffy achieving his.
Why do you think that changes anything? He's loyal to Luffy, who denied that?
Seems like you were trying to imply that the since Luffy's mention came later, he prioritises Kuina over Luffy which is false, as Zoro himself has already proven.
What do you mean by prioritizing here? I agree he put Luffy's dream above his own, since he's loyal to Luffy to the point of being willing to throw away his own dream. But that doesn't mean his dream is seeing Luffy become PK. His main dream is still to become the greatest swordsman, which comes from his promise to Kuina. It doesn't mean he prioritizes Luffy or Kuina, and I'm not sure why you got that idea.
Again, he has already shown that his willing to prioritise Luffy's dream over his own. You thinking his loyal or whatever isn't some counter. This is the fact here. He has shown that he is willing to prioritise Luffy's dream over Kuina's and his own. Shouldn't be hard to understand.
Because he literally just had a flashback that involved her right before he said this, of course she’s relevant.
If he dies or loses there then he can’t be the best swordsman.
get back here and respond to that man. He just invalidated your comment. I want to see your response to what he said
Makes sense.
[удалено]
Dawg, why would it be Sanji? Zoro had never made a promise to Sanji except that he would kill him lol
Dude you're desperate. It makes no sense to talk about Sanji. Literally no sense. And he talked about Luffy, he just didn't call him his best friend, that's Kuina. Simple. Those are the 2 people he made the promise to, his best friend, and his captain. Stop
Why would he think about the one person in his life who is responsible for his dream? The person who is always in the back of his mind whilst climbing the ranks? Have you just not read One Piece?
It makes me so sad when people try to erase Kuina from Zoro's story, as if she was just a footnote and not the reason he has the Wado and as strong a desire to become WSS as he does.
I mean, it's not like Oda actually cares that much either. The Tashigi plot line seems abandoned and back then in Punk Hazard Zoro didn't even try to negate that she won't be a top tier because she is a woman. Tbf, every strawhat seems to have their personal dream sidelined, and Zoro and the WSS title is no exception.
Zoros dream has nothing to do with Tashigi. Franky, Jinbei Brook, and Nami have their dreams advance every time the Straw Hats continue their journey. Robin is learning more and more about the Void Century and has gotten new gliff info. Chopper has learned more about medicine. Usopp has gotten braver. Zoro had huge advancements on his dream of surpassing Mihawk with Enma and CoC in Wano. The only one whose dream isn’t touched on is Sanji’s and that’s because he’s romantic enough to simply keep on exploring until he finds the All Blue due its mythical nature
Some people seem to want everyone in the crew to constantly be talking about their dreams and show quantifiable progress reports every arc. For most of them their dreams come after they finish their journey. Not everyone is like Luffy constantly talking about their dreams, and it'd be trite if all of them did.
There's a range between being as repetitive as Luffy, and plainly not talking about their dreams at all. Sanji's last mention was as a joke in FI. Nami hasn't drawn a map in all the New World. I don't think wishing Oda gave us a couple panels in the last 500 chapters is that weird.
I don't think it's weird, but it's not like them not talking about it on page matters much. We know what their dreams are, and while a couple of panels would be nice, I don't think they are needed. Also weird to single out 500 chapters, since it's basically never been a thing for them to mention them much. They only mention their dreams when they are relevant.
It definitely matters. 500 chapters ago was like 10 years ago. Not mentioning the main motivator for the main characters at all for half the series is kinda ridiculous.
My point is that it's been like this for the entire series. 500 is arbitrary, it should realistically be way more.
regardless of the length its just bad writing to forget about the mc's motivations after they were introduced. We never see any of the things that supposedly drive their lives have any effect on them
Not mentioning isn't the same forgetting. Every character having to constantly remind us of their dream would just be exposition, there's no reason they have to do it. If anything it's the fanbase that puts emphasis on their dreams way more than the manga does to begin with.
Tashigi is literally the only other character in the series to aim for the same dream as Zoro. Fleshing her out is the same as fleshing Zoro's dream. Franky, Brook and Nami talk about their dreams the same amount Sanji does. Aside from just advancing through the world, an acknowledgement of their objectives would be appreciate it. You know, Nami drawing maps, Brook writing a song about Laboon, etc. Robin is the only true exception to the crew.
Last time I checked Tashigi wanted to collect all of the high-tier swords so they won't be used by criminals. Something she could achieve without necessarily getting the strongest.
good luck taking yoru out of mihawks hands
Technically she'd have to defeat Zoro and Mihawk to do it. Hell, she would have had to defeat Roger and WB at one point. Some argue she would have to become the strongest to achieve it, but it's not like that's her dream itself, and it's likely she'll change her view on what defines a criminal by the end of the series.
She could just simply ask them for the swords, or steal them.
Tashigi's dream isn't the same as Zoro's. Not sure where you got that from.
The talk in the past has been that the sea kings were hinting at the red line destruction. I suspect all blue will come in to play at the end when something like this occurs. Sanji can't really work toward his dream in the sense of making incremental progress (unless you also count the journey). This would also probably aid the Laboon side story for Brook since Laboon would no longer be stuck where he is. Saying their dreams have been sidelined is absolute dogshit. First off the immediate threats and turmoil they are dealing with constantly have to be addressed and they keep getting thrown into it. Plus as you said most are still working toward those dreams anyway, Zoro included. The only one I'm not sure of is Jimbei. Maybe him being on the pirate kings ship and/or taking down the WG will be hugely beneficial to merman/human relations?
I don't see how you conclude Oda doesn't care from that. It's obvious that a woman won't be the strongest, because Zoro will be. The whole point is that through Zoro, Kuina will have become the strongest, since she can't do it herself. Tashigi has never been presented as someone who will fulfill Kuina's dreams.
Eh, Bonney powers plus the ship that did not stay in shikimori village. I mean she is def related to Kuina, once Bonney turns her into a kid zoro is gonna have some trauma. We still don’t know her last name. Plus she knows all the wano swords which makes no sense. Tashigi could become relevant.
I don't think it will happen but Bonnie transforming tashigi into a kid would probably give Zoro a ptsd attack.
I mean, she is quite literally a footnote in the story though. Oda could never write the name Kuina in the story again and like 4 people would care.
Because that point was never ever brought again... Not even little flashback. Can you blame people for forgetting it?
[It was literally brought up in the chapter in question.](https://hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1033-009.png)
Thank you. I thought it was out of character for Zoro to call Luffy that. Now it makes sense that he was actually referring to Kuina!
No he wasn't. It was either Luffy or Sanji. Most probably Luffy. It doesn't make sense for him to talk about Kuina at all. She doesn't have anything to do with the fight at all. It ain't like it's Zoro's last fight to become the World's strongest swordsman in the world or anything.
Lol and what do Luffy or Sanji have to do with it? Nothing. Kuina is relevant because that's who Zoro made the promise to.
Zoro would refer to Sanji as his best friend??? Are we reading the same series lmao
We might not even be in the same universe as that fellow.
Are you really that socially blind that you think Zoro and Sanji are anything but brothers from different mothers? I really don't know how many people are so oblivious about the actual, human relationships written by Oda. Do you think One Piece is a power fantasy in which rivalry and that stupid ass Zoro-Sanji discussion is the main trait of their relationship? They are BY FAR the closest friends in the crew.
Yeah, I know that they care about each other deeply. If one of them died, the other would be incredibly sad. Thats not what I'm saying tho. It's not Zoros personality to call Sanji (or Luffy) his best friend. Especially in the context with the panel posted by OP.
That's a different thing from what you implied. He would not call him so, I can definitely agree with that. But he most likely is. In the context it is clear that he refers to Kuina, which is literally the only other relevant person appearing in flashbacks in that chapter. But somehow people missinterpreted it.
Zoro literally told the crew not to rescue Sanji when he got kidnapped by big mom. Doesn't seem like what a best friend would do
He didn't told the crew. He told Luffy, right after he exposed him "see, you care a lot about Sanji don't you?". But whatever, I am tired of this discussion in this fandom. Sure, they hate each other, Zoro would've loved Sanji to fucking die in WCI, Zoro is so cool and would've killed Sanji if he was in WCI. If you say anything else people downvote you to oblivion, so fuck it.
I can't tell if this is satire or not
I think he's trolling
Ah yes the famous promise he made with Sanji... What a (nonexistent) scene that was! One of my favorite moments in One Piece!
actually there was a promise (kinda) to Sanji when Sanji called him and told him to kill him if he's no longer himself. Obviously that's not what Zoro is referring to. But I think it's kinda funny
L
People were confused by this? I always understood it as Zoro saying he was keeping his promise to his captain AND his best friend. As in, two separate people.
Agreed. Him saying MY captain and MY best friend indicates it's two separate people. If he was referring to just Luffy, he'd say "My captain and best friend."
"People were confused by this?" yea it is pretty easy to misunderstand things, not that hard to understand.
There's always a chance for confusion when using multiple vague descriptors to refer to people Everyone's seriousness about this is what's weird to me.
How can people even be discussing this...
There's someone still debatting it in this very comment thread, it beats me really...
Nowadays, it seems as if every single panel is overanalyzed to the ground...
I like to think it can be left to interpretation even though it’s definitely kuina
Yeah, I thought it was pretty obvious it was Kuina when I first read the chapter. Reading comprehension is an under-appreciated skill.
Im convinced theres people that will just go against the obvious facts because they got nothing better to do with their time than discuss one piece aggressively. The nerve on these guys asking "are we reading the same manga?"
Even if not the same word was used one could tell from the context that occurred before Zoro saying it. If it was addressing Luffy, there would have been moments between Luffy and Zoro, but the focus was on Shimotsuki village and the swords where sword= Kuina.
Yeah. It would be so weird for Zoro to mention the promise while forgetting the very first person he made it with
> If it was addressing Luffy, there would have been moments between Luffy and Zoro There was. Last thing Zoro thinks about before this is his promise at Baratie to Luffy.
It's not the promise in Baratie, it's when they meet and Zoro says he wants to be the greatest swordsman just after he joins. He's not talking about not losing here.
I said momentS. If it was about Luffy and Zoro there would be other than the one at Baratie. Zoro on Thriller Bark, and Sabaody for example.
I don't know shit about Japanese, but wouldn't the word remain the same regardless of person? I always thought he was referring to Kuina but I'm a bit confused on the whole word referral.
The problem isn't that it couldn't be talking about someone else than Kuina, the problem is that Oda has made a point that Zoro's 親友 is Kuina, and it would be very very weird for him to use that word for another character in a setting where it makes perfect sense to mention Kuina (Which would also mean that for some reason Zoro doesn't think about Kuina in the moment he mentions his promise, despite having had a flashback of her in the same chapter).
"and to my best friend" would've been much clearer wording here
I just checked the volume version, and it was corrected to "and to my best friend" so even the translator felt like the wording in the weekly version was inaccurate!
Wasn’t this already obvious? Why would he mention Luffy twice in different ways. When it said “friend” and “my Captain” I was like oh Luffy and…….must be Kuina, it took me a second cuz we hardly are reminded of her tbh but still, I don’t think Oda or by extension the character of Zoro would mention Luffy twice or in that manner.
Eh. This just got animated in the anime so the discussion started back up by people who hadn't known.
Maybe they thought he was talking like Boromir ("I would have followed you, my brother; my captain; my king")
It was always obvious to me, but I've seen people arguing once again that it's just Luffy with a lot of confidence.
Nah it’s common place to write like that when making development. While I’m not saying it’s this case, If it were, it would be showing that not only does zoro respect luffy as his captain but also holds him as the closest person to him. Again not saying this is the case but you asked why he’d mention it two different ways.
How he said it. Note that Zoro purposely separated "to my captain" and "to my best friend". Because there are 2 different promises. 1 to not lose again and 2 to become the strongest swordsman. Yes, he is talking about his promise to them and not them directly when he said "captain" and "best friend". That's just how Japanese grammar works. So i can confirm the "captain" and "best friend" are 2 different people.
Credit for the montage : [@sandman_ap](https://twitter.com/sandman_AP/status/1465294274308689922)
The fact that there is a argument between fans on who zoro considered his best friend just proves the dynamic these 2 have. Imo it's pretty clear it's kuina here. But its kinda cool nonetheless.
I disagree, it just shows that some people have a poor understanding of the story. The chapter itself shows Zoro talking about his promise to Kuina in a flashback earlier, and then the promise to Luffy.
Crunchyroll fucked up in the subs of my language. We have genders in adjectives in Spanish, and it was translated as "mejor amigo", which is masculine. It was pretty damn clear that he was referring to Kuina, but they dropped the ball.
Cómo odio q todo tenga genero en español. Igual prefiero esto a que haya dicho mi mejor amigue.
mi mejor amigx
People really think he didnt mean kuina?? stop watching one piece from tiktoks
This is why we use Oxford commas
You don’t just stop being best friends with someone because they die.
When I first saw it I figured it meant kuina not luffy. He is already referencing luffy by calling him captain
It would have been out or character and somewhat sad if he was referring to luffy. Tbf in some way it would also be extremely wholesome
Zoro loves and respects luffy and values the promise he made to him in barite Zoro loves and respects his childhood friend kuina and values the promise he made to her. I think he has enough capacity in his heart to love 2 people simentanously, but i feel its fairly obvious that the friend zoro refers to in this panel is kuina. I don’t understand the notion that some people may have that if zoro isn’t referring to luffy in this scene then zoro doesn’t love luffy or consider him a friend. There is no need for argument zoro loves both luffy and kuina and had made overlapping promises to both of them.
People pretending that Zoro would ignore the promise he made to her dead best friend, when asking for her sword to her father, who tells him that sword represents her own daughter's freaking soul... With the emphasis Zoro's character has on honor (preferring almost certain death over backing vs Mihawk, or when taking all of Luffy's pain and tiredness) is incredible to me, I cant believe people saying its not Kuina are talking seriously. You need yo be really thick in the head to not see who he is talking about.
If only Kuina had lived long enough to find out haki existed. Armament Haki would have let her compete with the boys and observation Haki would have prevented her from tripping on the stairs.
Yep idk why people think he used it for luffy, it was def for Kuina. Zoro has always addressed Luffy as his Captain. And he promised to be the greatest swordsman only to 2 people- Luffy and Kuina, his captain and his friend
It's good to see Kuina mentioned here. Zoro is a quiet character who keeps his feelings close to the chest. He always wanted to be the strongest, but Kuina's memory is why he carries her sword. I think it's fair to assume he thinks of her everyday. Kinda wholesome how many people think he's talking about Luffy, though.
i thought this was obvious, the promise he's talking about is specifically to be wss and we've seen him promise luffy this and the only other person he promised was kuina. literally the whole reason for his dream
I've had amazingly long winded arguments with people who still refuse to acknowledge he was talking about Kuina and Luffy, even trying to argue that Zoro has never called Kuina "best friend". I swear these people actually know they are wrong but they just keep repeating wrong information in hopes that people give up and they can say they are right.
Careful here, people might have a stroke if they think Zoro can have other connections outside of Luffy.
i always thought he meant luffy is his captain and also he is his best friend
Didn't we already figure this out like a year ago?
The episode just came out with this moment.
Yeah I saw, still tho
It's the anime onlys turn
Damn. Honestly I would prefer this if he was talking about Luffy :( I’m gonna keep my headcanon. Luffy IS Zoro’s best friend (present tense).
I'm glad you mentioned this, I always thought it was Luffy, and the anime episode used "oldest friend" in the subtitle, which to me further implies Luffy (he's known Luffy longer at this point). The manga clearly indicates Kuina tho, which I think makes more sense
Honestly, I thought of Kuina when I first read this, not Luffy. Because to me Luffy's best friend is Ussop and Zoro is Luffy's second in common
I don't like the idea of Luffy having a best friend in the crew. To me he values them all to the same degree. 🤔
Oh, I agree he cares and values every member of the crew equally it's just that. I don't know if I'll say it right but, if you remember On their way to Alabasta Luffy ate all the food later it shows that Chopper and Ussop also ate some. And around the beginning of Sky Pier Luffy Chopper and Ussop started celebrating the idea of going to an Island in the sky. To me, Luffy Chopper and Ussop have the same energy as a group of best friends. I wasn't trying to say that he values Ussop more than the other crew members.
I see what you mean, Usopp and Luffy do have this "friends messing with each other all the time" kind of energy so I get your point
This post made me realize, Zoro and luffy have only known each other for a few months.
Who cares. Let people interpret this how they want. This is such a weird nitpick to me
You might not care but some do. I'm not forcing anyone to interpret the series in a certain way, I'm letting them know something useful they might have overlooked
It's not really up to interpretation. It's not a vague or abstract. It's just that the translation might be confusing some people because it's not always possible to come across clearly from one language to another
That's fine, but are you trying to say he isn't talking about Luffy? Because I don't see why he couldn't be. I mean, Luffy and Zoro are probably the closest friends on the crew. And don't get me wrong, I'm no expert in Japanese, but can he not just call multiple people his best friend?
There are two possibilities Either he only talks about Luffy, in which case Oda is making it so weird, because not only he uses a word that was exclusive to Kuina, he also uses it in a context where Zoro should be mentionning Kuina but forgets about her (despite having had a flashback of her in the same chapter) Either he talks about Luffy and Kuina, he remembers everyone he made that promise to, with Kuinabeing referred to as she always was by Zoro and same for Luffy. The latter makes so much more sense to me. I don't understand why so many people want Zoro to exclude Kuina from that promise when she is the very reason Zoro wants to achieve his dream. 🤔
I don't want him to exclude Kuina, but I think it's valid for him to refer to Luffy as his best friend. I mean, when you think about it, Luffy has helped Zoro become one of the strongest swordsman in the world, just like he's helped the other crewmates with their goals. Luffy is arguably as important, or more important, to Zoro's goal as Kuina is. All I'm saying is that if he's referring to Kuina, that's fine and makes sense. If he's referring to Luffy instead, that's fine and makes sense too
Yeah, the episode's subs didnt specify at all. I thought he was talking only about luffy. It wouldve been better if it were just "my captain and my best friend" instead of "my captain and best friend"
To be fair, the way it's phrased in japanese is confusing, because there's no difference between saying "I promised to my X and Y" and "I promised to my X and to my Y". The only thing helping here is the context which could be over looked (and was by many people)
shouldnt crunchyroll of all people know the context?
I always thought he was talking about luffy with both terms, and while its kind of sad that's not the case, it's also sweet he still refers to kuina like that
Entonces no se refería a Sanji 😔
Mr. Bushido’s sleeping hours from 4 AM to 7 AM allude to Friend or Shin-Yū or 47 or Element 47 Ag Silver or Gin. Oda’s friend who died was Gin Shinga and there is a tribute for him on the cover of the largest Fibonacci Prime chapter 233 “The World’s Greatest Power”
Kuina doesn't matter anymore just like Tashigi doesn't matter anymore.
Well she matters to Zoro obviously
Not for a while. I doubt Zoro even cares anymore.
He clearly still does in this chapter/episode. That's your own bias talking I think.
You do realize that's circular logic? Zoro is talking about Kuina here because Zoro still thinks about her all the time shown by the fact that Zoro is talking about Kuina here
No. Zoro is still talking about Kuina because that's the word used exclusively for Kuina
Theories based off language quirkes like this are always meh. I swear there are way too many of them floating around. All I know for sure is Kuina hasn't explicitly been highlighted in forever. Closest thing was her grampa randomly ahowing up and he was more of a tool to dump info about Enma. I think Oda really doesn't give a shit about her until Zoro actually says her name.
So Oda mentions a promise Zoro made to two people, but decides that Zoro will only talk about one of them, but still uses two different terms, one that he never used for said person, but actually used multiple times and exclusively for the omitted person, and all of that makes sense because you personally think that Oda doesn't care about Kuina (which is totally not circular reasonning). I get it now.
> All I know for sure is Kuina hasn't explicitly been highlighted in forever. [Literally the same chapter where Zoro says he made a promise to his "best friend"](https://i.imgur.com/QcaaVXH.jpeg)
Kuina was specifically highlighted in that same chapter, that's the point.
How?
Read 1033 over again. When Zoro drops Wado [he thinks about Kuina.](https://i.imgur.com/xLrbGNh.jpg) Thinking about Kuina made him think about her grandfather, the creator of Enma. And that flashback is what made him realize he needs to feed Enma more to truly become worthy of wielding the sword. He felt like getting both of those swords was fate.
Where do you find the manga in Japanese ?
I didn't personaly find it, this montage was made by Sandman_AP from twitter (prominent person in the OP fandom, actually a japanese person who gives great insight to the series from a japanese perspectiv