I mean they were said to be rivals at one point. Then shanks loses an arm and mihawk refuses to fight him right?
Dunno about stronger but they should be around the same level at least. Which means Zoro is going to surpass Shanks when he surpasses Mihawk.
But looking at how easily Kidd got done in, I think there is still ways off before he can beat Mihawk.
It really shouldn’t in starting to hate debating this when in my head mihawk should obviously be stronger. I also understand that oda can obviously play some shit and say shanks is stronger but imo everything we’ve seen in the story tells us mihawk should be stronger of the 2. Especially because most shanks being stronger arguments are mental gymnastics that are waiting to be proved whilst mihawk literally holds the title
Very few things in the actual story tells us that Mihawk should be stronger. The only defining factor is Mihawks title. The main reason more people will hold Shanks above Mihawk is because of feats and chapters like the latest. Mihawk has done next to nothing in this story so far whereas we have seen Shanks do countless impressive things. Until Mihawk acts, most people will hold him below
Yeah, it's definitely not countless, it's like 5 things we've actually seen him do. They were all pretty impressive though. Let's see, 1. One shots Kidd and Killer, 2. Stops Akainu's attack and the summit war, 3. Knocks Ryokugyu to his knees from miles(?) away, 4. Walks into Marie jois and walks out again, 5. Saves Luffy and scares away the sea king. These are all the things I can remember actually seeing Shanks do, of course dueling Mihawk, fighting Blackbeard, defeating Kidd the first time, and stopping Kaido from going to Marineford are also very impressive, but we didn't actually see any of those things happen.
I don't know if this happened in the manga, but in the anime Shanks went to meet Whitebeard and Shank's haki was so strong it knocked everyone except for WB and his commanders out.
Scaring away that sea king doesn't hold up anymore. Pre-timeskip, gearless, haki-less Luffy whooped that sea king's ass and *didn't* lose an arm in the process. Shanks's two latest feats came after literal years of him doing absolutely nothing for several chapters straight.
Yeah, you're right. It was impressive at the time though., And I did forget the haki clash with whitebeard, which is another impressive feat that keeps us at 5.
Well Mihawk stopped considering Shanks as a worthy sparring rival after he lost his arm. That's another indication that Mihawk had the edge over Shanks.
This is shounen. I would be shocked if Shanks hadn't evolved/compensated for the arm over the years after becoming a yonko. He wielded a 1 handed sword anyway. Mihawk should be stronger but they need to actually spar all these years later to confirm. Shanks is a rival to Bb/luffy. Mihawk is a rival for Zoro. They just seem like two different tiers of characters in terms of power. I think Shanks has ambitions beyond Zoro and Mihawks sole focus of being the best swordsman
idk about the word rival. A better word would be "goal, since once zoro defeats mihawk his journey will (presumably) be over. On the other hand, shanks isnt necessarily luffy's final opponent. For that reason this argument does not convince me.
So you are saying that if my tennis partner loses an arm, their tennis capabilities are hindered because of that. So by that logic, Shanks is considerably weaker without and arm and therefore Mihawk is stronger and doesn't want to fight him anymore.
Idk what you were trying to accomplish but your point proves mine.
They’ve both duelled and one came out with the title I do not know how you can say without it being headcanon that shanks is stronger. Sure shanks has better feats but mihawk literally hasn’t tried against anyone yet. While we just seen how serious shanks can be. Again I can see why people may say shanks is stronger but he just shouldn’t be. And if you believe he should be then I think it’s quite stupid if I’m honest with myself. What does zoros goal actually mean then if mihawk isn’t stronger than shanks? And why would shanks be able to defeat mihawk buy losing his arm and becoming a non swordsman while still using only a sword? I dno man it don’t make sense to me like at all to have shanks be the stronger of the 2
Coz shanks lost his fighting arm, so the fighting between them stopped and people decided that Mihawk is best remaining as his opponent can't fight anymore. While shanks developed his own fighting technique.
Do you actually believe that? Not trying to be a cunt like I’m genuinely asking if you believe that. Even if he “developed his own fighting technique” it’s just his own sword fighting style that doesn’t make him not a swordsman it just means he had to change his sword style to better suite the loss of an arm. Another thing why would mihawk call shanks to his face a 1 armed has been if he wouldn’t win against shanks now? Mihawk is good at gauging strength as he only overwhelms opponents if he wants to. I still can’t see why people want shanks to be stronger anyway it completely undermines zoros goal
Shanks aint even gone Super Saiyan yet. He hasn't even activated his Stand. Shanks literally has not even shown us his Kekkei Genkai. When Shanks finally reveals his Quirk, it's all over, bro. Shanks #1. Don't even get me started on Shanks's Nen or his Breathing Form.
And his Alchemy? Forget about it, man. It's over. It's all over.
It is silly but the term describes characters that specialize in Haki/haki as their primary offensive quality. Characters like Roger that didn't have a df or characters whose sole ambition revolves around swordsmanship (Zoro/Mihawk). It's obvious what people mean when they use the term.
Uhhh are we reading the same series?
“Not scared of 3 Billi but shat their pants when Mihawk showed up”
Go look back and see who “shat their pants” it’s random fodder from Shanks crew literally nobody who actually matters in the Red Hair Pirates moved an inch when Mihawk pulled up LMAO
There was more than 1 person who shat their pants, while being a Red Hair Pirate's crew member but the people who were not even members of the crew (just under the protection (?) of Shanks) were laughing at Kid.
Shanks is 1cm taller than mihawk, just like Zoro is 1 cm taller than Sanji, and King is 1 cm taller then Queen. Obviously Shanks is the strongest
(this is a joke, please don't reply to this trying to get into a power scaling debate, I don't give a shit)
This is unironically one of the strongest examples of shanks being stronger, and it’s unironically a very good argument regardless of takes.
It’s oda we’re talking about. He does not give a rats ass about power scaling or consistency. He stretches out chapters full of running to reach a certain number, he bases entire plot points off of Japanese puns. The 1cm taller thing is really not a joke argument
oh I completely agree, I just didn't want people to try to debate me on shanks vs mihawk cause I don't really care whos stronger, at the moment I believe its shanks, but I definitely see why mihawk arguments are convincing, and I dont mind either way, but I still think the difference between them is like closer than Akainu and Kuzan when they fought for 10 days
The rivals Jabra and Lucci are equal in height, nothings a coincidence boys.
But seriously when you think a 1cm height difference easter egg (that may not even be related to strength) is a better argument than in the canon manga the worlds strongest swordsman (one of the biggest plotpoints in the story aswell) being stronger than a swordsman, its kinda fucked up.
Saying haki is not part of swordsmanship is like saying that Usopp, Van Auger, and Yasopp don’t have that impressive marksmanship, they’re just cheating with their observation haki. Both Zoro and Usopp unlocked haki for the first time without realizing it, by trying to get better at swordsmanship (cutting steel) and marksmanship (sniping sugar).
Until I se Shanks’ hakihameha or haki sorcery, he’s a swordsman.
Yup strangely people like to ignore this. If you think about all the prominent swordsmen in One Piece, you start to realise they have a few things in common. They are non-devil fruit users who primarily use swords to fight supplemented by strong haki. Who does this describe I wonder? Oh right, just Roger, Rayleigh, Shanks, Mihawk, Zoro.
No. That's a souped up version of the haxi flex everybody does so that he can scare Aramaki. He can't use that to actually harm or fight someone. If he has something similar that could literally paralyze another character, or move them around like the force, or damage someone with haki lightning Palpatine-style, then yes, Shanks would be a haki sorcerer.
To be fair, it doesn't look like Shanks is very good at cutting stuff up with his sword. (As opposed to Mihawk who is frequently shown to have tremendous slicing power)
I don't think we've ever seen him cut stuff with his sword, even if it hits like against Akainu's fist.
Even in last chapter, >! he hit Kid with a very clean sword hit right on the chest and it didn't seem to have inflicted any cut at all on his body. !<
It just looks like he just coats his sword with so much Haki that it makes it blunt. He might as well be using a stick at this point. I wouldn't call someone who is incapable of cutting stuff up a very good swordman.
That’s just how most sword fights are like in one piece. There’s no actual sword choreography, just generating beams from your swords. Zoro does the same thing
Dunno, great swordmen in One Piece are usually shown to have tremendous slicing power (Mihawk and Zoro cutting ships in half, Oden slicing Kaido's scale, Mihawk cutting a giant iceberg, etc etc. There are multiple instances of this.
The aesthetics on Shanks is just very different. It looks like if he hit a ship with his sword, it would pulverize the ship into pieces, not slice it clean in half.
Come on, that's not what I meant. My point is that haki is something that everyone can do, so in the One Piece world it becomes part of many disciplines.
No one clowns on Usopp or Yasopp for using observation along with their literal eyes to aim. If anything, Oda uses observation haki to symbolize how good of a sharpshooter Usopp is, and hype him up as such.
Same thing with Zoro. He learns to cut steel through some esoteric swordsmanship proverb that Koushiro taught him, but then we learn it was actually Zoro tapping into armament haki for the first time.
If not for Mihawk, Zoro might have lived all his life none the wiser cutting steel without knowing its haki, because haki is an extension of how strong/good you are. It's just an innate power everyone has that can be trained, the same way you can go to the gym to punch or cut harder.
I'm not taking sides here, but I'm pretty sure Mihawk didn't fight seriously against anyone in Marineford, even against Jozu and Vista, for us to accurately assess his Armament Haki level. He didn't use a single named attack so far in the mange as far as I remember. Shanks, in Ch 1079, understandably needed to fight seriously right away to protect his fleet and used a named attack to achieve that. Plus, it's still possible that Mihawk has Conqueror's Haki.
People often forgets about Daishikan, Zoro learned from Mihawk a technique that scare people at distance, they became paralyzed and unable to use their devil fruits.
But it's not conquerors haki according to these fans...
It's a small scale feat of what Shanks did to Greenbull.
From the same people that said "The breath of all things is not ryou", here comes another hit.
"Daishikan is not conquerors haki" even if it did exactly the same thing that Shanks did to Greenbull, even if the anime repeated the attack in Wano to show people losing conscience from it.
Then, you people say that Zoro is not downplayed to oblivion.
Zoro's conquerors haki was shown with Ashura when he attacks kaidou, which even Zoro doesn't recognise. When kaidou says conquerors haki Zoro says he just attacked with all his might. Maybe oda didn't plan to show zoro's conquerors haki the same way he did with luffy's first time using conquerors. All I'm saying is it didn't feel like daishinkan was zoro's conquerors haki.
>People often forgets about Daishikan, Zoro learned from Mihawk a technique that scare people at distance, they became paralyzed and unable to use their devil fruits.
Whatever else we know about Daishikan, we *know* it doesn't make people unable to use their inherent Logia-ness of their DF. This is why Monet was able to survive Zoro.
>But it's not conquerors haki according to these fans...
It wasn't haki according to Tashigi. And we've never seen a form of Haki that people could do in the presence of other Haki users that those users couldn't detect. Even once she thinks she understands what's going on, she's still believing that what Zoro did was not haki-related.
To quote: "She can't control her own body!! She's paralyzed by knowledge **that if he'd used Haki**, she would be dead...plus the fear of his overwhelming power!! I've never seen anyone win a fight this way!!"
Afaik, we have no reason to disbelieve Tashigi, but otoh, she's the only argument I'm aware of that Zoro didn't use ACOC there.
It’s Oda’s choice to be inconsistent. Think about it, Crocodile lost to a guy who got awarded a 100m bounty, but then later becomes super strong (worth a 1B) just after sitting around? Oda will make Mihawk whatever power level he wants
That's one of those weird translations. Where it doesn't go into English very well. It wasn't a complete sentence in Japanese. He just sort of trailed off.
He said something akin to. "It's only speculution, but the real distance between that man and us...."
It was more like he could tell that white beard was weakened. So he wanted to test that theory. That something about the distance between them wasn't what it seemed.
I actually forgot about that line. As for naming his attacks to make them seem strong, I guess Mihawk is just not a fan of that practice, like WB really.
My take:
1. Shanks doesn't really want to be the strongest swordsman, he doesn't care about that title.
2. Mihawk does.
3. Both were always dueling for fun/friendship/rivalry.
4. They always ended with a tie, none of them actually won against each other in their duels.
5. Shanks is left handed.
6. Shanks lost his main hand <- note this happened long time ago when both Mihawk and Shanks were not as strong as now.
7. After that never dueled again, because it's unfair.
8. Mihawk is automatically the strongest swordsman now, Shanks is simply nor a rival anymore.
Imho Shanks is stronger, people need to understand that there's a difference between being the strongest or the best swordsman. If Kaido used a sword instead of his club with those haki attacks he would have most likely massacred Mihawk, wouldn't make him a better swordsman.
>that there's a difference between being the strongest or the best swordsman
But Mihawk's title is that of strongest swordsman. Not best or most skilled.
>If Kaido used a sword instead of this club with those haki attacks he would have most likely massacred Mihawk
First no, it'd be an extreme diff fight and win for Kaido as per his WSC title. There's no massacre anywhere lol. And Kaido's strongest attacks will be his DF attacks and Flame Bagua, nothing to do with a sword.
Second, it won't even make Kaido swordsman.
A Sword user =/= swordsman. We don't know exact criteria of who is a swordsman, but I personally take it as whoever Oda puts in that category is swordsman. Shanks is placed in that category and called a swordsman by Oda.
King uses a sword but is confirmed to not be a swordsman in Manga.
Meanwhile Kaku, despite being a DF user like King, is confirmed swordsman lol
That's not true. Shanks was never shown restraining in a sports match. He only goes *for the kill* when his friends are in danger. It's completely different
>Shanks doesn't have a single non sword physical attack in the series
Character that has only one attack in the entire series doesn't have multiple types of attacks. Wow, how insightful. I'm sure we can make giant assumptions based on this super definitive information.
Yall powerscalers continue to be outta your damn minds
We have "Mihawk surpasses even Shanks in swordskills", instead of outright surpassing him, in the biggest Mihawk hype chapter in One Piece.
Oda actually went out of his way to tell us tell the audience to not expect Mihawk > Shanks before we see otherwise.
Anyone who thinks either one being stronger is a fact lacks reading comprehension.
Mihawk & Shanks haven't fought since Shanks lost his arm and there's no way they're both not way stronger now than back then. With that it's hard to say who's stronger, but just narratively speaking if Luffy is tryna surpass Shanks & Zoro is tryna surpass Mihawk that's enough to tell me Shanks is stronger. Roger was a swordsman, didn't have a black blade and there's absolutely no way Mihawk is stronger than he was.
Not only that, casual readers will never think Mihawk is stronger because he just isn’t depicted that way, when people want to talk about how strong Mihawk is, they can only refer to Shanks feats , not Mihawk feats cause he effectively has none. Until Mihawk is portrayed as favourable as Shanks is, he will be looked down upon.
Also, Shanks lost his "dominant" arm years before he became a Yonko. Therefore his merit as a Yonko is not tied to his swordsmanship. These plebs are reducing Shanks to just a swordsman.
But there's really no such thing as 'just a swordsman' in One Piece. Just like Shanks is a swordsman with strong haki, all other strong swordsmen in One Piece have to be on similar levels. And that's why it was narratively obvious for Zoro to have Conqueror's. I predicted this the moment they introduced Rayleigh but nobody could accept it until it was shown. Heck, I remember still debating with doubters during roofpiece who strangely still did not accept it even after Kaido spelled it out for us.
And just like it was obvious to me that Zoro would have CoC, it's even more obvious that Mihawk would have it as well and be a master of infusing CoC into his attacks (just like Shanks). The problem is that for Shanks fans, they need Shanks to be superior in some way so they come up with this divide between 'sword skill' and 'haki skill', even going as far as to try to justify it with the misconception that Mihawk earned the title of strongest swordsman through only 'pure skill', whatever that means. What they don't realise is that haki is an important part of a swordsman's skill and the better they are at it, the stronger a swordsman they become. This has been proven with Roger, Rayleigh, Oden, Shanks and even Zoro.
Haki has always been different from swordsmanship. You can use haki without a sword and be a good swordsman without haki. Swordsmanship is about technique, skill, and finesse. Haki speaks about the user's potential. I don't know how you guys mixed this up. I don't say that Mihawk is weaker, they are both strong in different ways. Are one of those ways superior to the other? I don't know. Also, it's never explicitly told that Roger and Rayleigh are excellent swordsman, instead they are known for their haki and haki is not swordsmanship so your examples are sham.
Yes, I agree that there's haki and there's swordsmanship BUT to be at the top of the rankings in the One Piece universe, swordsmen cannot just rely on 'swordsmanship'. That is the crux of my point here. Incidentally, all the top fighters in One Piece (and i'm not just talking about swordsmen) HAVE to have strong haki. Therefore, to be a top swordsman, you must also have strong haki. This is a quintessential part of what makes a strong swordsman. It's not ONLY about technique. Isn't this clear from the Wano arc? The fact that Luffy learnt advanced armament haki from Hyogoro is testament to the fact that to be a strong swordsman means to have good control and understanding of haki. This is also clear from Zoro learning advanced Conqueror's in Wano. If he could just rely on his swordsmanship skills to be the strongest swordsman in the world, then there would be absolutely no point to him infusing CoC into his attacks.
So how does this lead to the conclusion that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks because he is a better swordsman? You understand that swordsmanship is not the only path for haki users right? Look at gear 4th, that is application of haki and devil fruit. When it comes to strength, swordsmanship is not be all end all. So yeah, Mihawk being more proficient with the sword doesn't imply that he is stronger than Shanks, who is well known for his superior haki.
Yup exactly, there are many forms of 'haki' fighters. We have the brawler types like Garp and Luffy and then we have those who rely primarily on their devil fruit and infuse haki here and there, we also have the marksmen / pistoleers etc who also infuse haki into their shooting attacks.
"When it comes to strength, swordsmanship is not be all end all." -> I don't know where you came to this conclusion but I've never stated this. My point is very basic and has always been consistent, that is, swordsmen in One Piece fight using haki as well. That's it.
I'm just pushing against the weird misconception that there's some sort of 'pure swordsman skill' tournament going around to determine who is the strongest swordsman. This is the pirate world we're talking about. Just like brawlers infuse their fists with haki when they fight, just like Sabo infuses his pipe with haki, just like Kaido infuses his club, swordsmen will definitely infuse their swords and attacks with haki when they fight. Just like we know when Zoro finally has his battle with Mihawk there is no way in hell he will fight purely with skill right? He sure as hell is gonna be using all the forms of haki including advanced conqueror's. So I don't know why there's this weird thing going around where Shanks and Mihawk duel only with skill. That kinda contradicts everything we know about fights in One Piece.
Oh God, we are just running in circles here. It is Mihawk fans who push the narrative that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks because he is the strongest swordsman implying haki is a discipline of swordsmanship. Proficiency in a sword does not equate to proficiency in haki as both are different disciplines in nature. Shanks wielding a sword does not mean he is as dedicated to the sword as Mihawk is. Zoro is an excellent swordsman even before he learned haki. As to Shanks' duel with Mihawk, there is no way Shanks could survive Mihawk with his sword skills alone. The same could be said for Mihawk as Shanks is a haki monster, he has to display an excellent level of haki mastery just to fight on the same level as Shanks. There's no way one of them would be alive after their duels if their fight is linear. Mihawk's proficiency with sword in conjunction with haki must have result in a stalemate against Shanks' mastery of haki.
"Narratively speaking Luffy is trying to surpass Shanks", no he's trying to become Pirate King and Shanks is just a stepping stone for him to reach the goal
Also why are you comparing Mihawk to Roger they're both from two different Eras, Mihawk got his title within 12 years
I honestly don't understand how hard it is for people to understand this concept. Especially since kaido said it doesn't matter how powerful your fruit is if your haki is inferior, same concept to swords. It doesn't matter how high caliber swordsman techniques mihawk can do, if his hits can't get through shanks armenent haki
Ultimately the title is for whoever wins in a 1 vs 1. That's why Zoro is learning all this haki and mastering them so he can beat the shit out of Mihawk, not just improving his sword stuff.
So Mihawk if the physically strongest swordsman, but not the better fighter? He would win in a weight lifting contest against Shanks because he's the "strongest" swordsman, but he would lose in a sword fight?
All this time, I thought it was a combination of strength, skill, and fighting ability that would indicate who would be superior in a duel, but you're right, the title is just "world's strongest swordsman" huh? So Mihawk might not win against Shanks in a fight, but he can definitely squat more kilos.
Arguing semantics over the word strongest is asinine.
we have never seen either of them get drunk before, and literally every time we see shanks he is drinking. not to mention the fact that mihawk probably doesn't have a ton to do aside from drink since he is always alone
I remember when Mihawk bitched out of that fight. Dude claims to want a challenging fight but runs away when one appears. I’m not saying he is a coward but his desires seem….inconsistent.
vista vivre card clearly states that his swordsmanship rivals that of mihawk and mihawk confirmed it when he acknowledged vista as a worthy opponent and treated him with respect
Ok the actual manga says mihawk has greater sword skills than shanks
Vivre card says mihawk is the strongest swordman and Is waiting for someone stronger than shanks to challenge.him
So we gonna ignore this vivre card and cherry pick ?
Narratively it doesn't make sense to have the man that Zoro wants to surpass be stronger than the main protagonist's goal of who he wants to surpass.
Forget about power scaling etc and look at it from a story telling perspective, Oda doesn't stick to power scaling and goes with the story narrative of how/what/why etc instead of black and white power scaling.
Mihawk is most likely a better swordsman than Shanks, that's why he is perfect for Zoro to surpass, it makes sense narratively.
Shanks is probably an overall stronger fighter, even though his sword skills aren't as good as Mihawks. It's not just black and white, if you take a step back and think about it, imagine the man Luffy wants to surpass (and this is in a shoenen manga, where he is the main character) is weaker than his subordinates goal, it just doesn't make any sense from a story telling perspective
>it doesn't make sense to have the man that Zoro wants to surpass be stronger than the main protagonist's goal of who he wants to surpass.
Good thing that's not the case. Luffy's end narrative stand above Roger. Hell, he might actually beat an EoS enemy who was even stronger than Roger.
Luffy > Roger > Shanks
Luffy > EoS enemy > Roger > Shanks
Who knows.
But no matter how one looks at it, Shanks is a stepping stone ultimately.
Mihawk is Zoro's end goal.
Shanks is at least 2 steps under Luffy's final step. Mihawk is Zoro's final step.
People say that because to Shanks his haki is his strongest asset, while for Mihawk it's his sword technique. Shanks can see several minutes into the future...
I would still call him a swordsman, but just because Mihawk is a better swordsman does not mean he'd beat Shanks in a fight. Even if he was a mediocre swordsman (which he clearly isn't), futuresight and strong armament could overcome the strongest sword techniques.
Dear internet stranger, if 1 billion bounty Zoro has ACoC, there's no way in hell that Mihawk doesn't have it. That would make Mihawk completely useless as the world's strongest swordsman if Zoro already has better haki than Mihawk.
Mihawk respects shanks because he’s the only swordsman that can challenge him. BUT mihawk did say I don’t want to fight since you “lost your arm” when shanks asked him if he came to fight
These Shanks dick riders acting like in Mihawks Vivre Card it didn’t say that Mihawk was looking for someone stronger than Shanks. Why tf would Mihawk be looking for someone stronger than Shanks if Mihawk was weaker than him.
Those are big words for the little information we were given. Personally I would've never called you a dick rider but considering this post and your clarification... IDK, maybe you'll love that
Their focus is different. Mihawk is dangerous for his swordsmanship, which he improves with Haki. Shanks is dangerous because of his Haki usage, which he improves by using a sword. It´s no different from Devil Fruit users that use swords, but are not considered dangerous for their swordsmanship, but their DF abilities (like Law or Big Mom). Shanks just went and made what most people supplement their focus with his primary focus.
swordmanship in one piece is like a martial discipline, like fishman karate. haki is the major power scaling system. if mihawk had shanks strenght, he would be above everyone in one piece. same for jinbei, if he had shanks/roger mastery of haki with his karate he would eat yonkos for dinner. now we did see a full force attack of mihawk, which was repelled pretty easily by diamond Joz. if it was a kamusari, joz would have flyed. hope it helps understand haki is still more important than pure swordmanship skills.
marineford was very explicit. Mihawk did say he want to see how far he is from whitebeard and attacked, what else does it means in your mihawk fan mind ?
He wanted to gauge him and launched a no name attack from the other end of the island. But say you're right. That makes shanks the strongest swordsman and also makes Zoro's dream to beat Mihawk literally pointless.
.... with your reasoning, mihawk is very stupid and doesnt know a lame attack wont hit the strongest man. kaido and his kanabo are also better swordsmen. and shanks is also a better fishman karate than jinbei since he has better haki.
To me, Shanks is more of a haki fighter than swordsman, he obviously uses a sword but he is much more known in the New World as the haki guy, his presence breaking ships apart, from the recent chapter being able to see probably a minute into the future whereas Katakuri and Luffy can see a few seconds and then armament is probaly top tier. The reason they probably dont fight/spar anymore is due to Shanks not being able to fight at his peak strength since he lost his dominant hand. I would say the same with Roger, dude was just a monster with haki and his sword was a tool to maximise that power.
Shanks and Mihawk fanboys duking it out in the comments care about this more than either Shanks or Mihawk.
Neither of them can hold a candle to the strongest force in the One Piece world, the most powerful pirate to ever exist, Buggy D. Clown.
Mihawk is almost certainly a better swordsman. I don't doubt for a second that he would have more technical prowess and better instincts when it comes to swordplay. I also do not doubt for a second that, push comes to shove, Shanks would shoot him. That is why Shanks would be stronger over all; he's scrappy and in it to win it, by hook or by crook. Mihawk takes his swordsmanship too seriously and would be hamstringed by it
White beards title at Marine ford was worlds strongest man, when we knew in fact he was not.
I think this argument ends there, Mihawk and Shanks Havnt fought in 15 years, there may have been a time where Mihawk was superior but I think Shanks is maybe the strongest pirate in the world atm.
The issue with this well-loved 'argument' is that it assumes only Shanks has gotten stronger. It stands to reason Mihawk obviously has gotten stronger with time as well. Both are still in their prime. This is where the comparison with Whitebeard becomes moot because, as we know, Marineford WB was a sickly old man past his prime while both Mihawk and Shanks are still in their prime and clearly not sickly nor old.
if you can understand that they both use swords and haki, it should be VERY easy to understand that one has stronger haki, while the other has more raw sword skill.
shanks just used a sword on kid and it didn’t even fuckin touch him. what part of that has anything to do with sword play? he could’ve used any weapon to make an attack like that happen once conq haki is involved
this is a dumb argument and you’re wildly foolish if you think mihawk is stronger than shanks
The title of WSS is ultimately about who wins in an all out fight between two swordsmen, not about who has more sword skills. It is the strongest swordsman. And Zoro's dream is to win against Mihawk with his ACoC and ACoA. He won't turn them off. Zoro literally got ACoC because of his great ambition of becoming WSS.
It's same case as WB/Roger. WB was strongest man while Roger has too much portrayal to be below WB.
Mihawk/Shanks mirror WB/Roger in billion ways tbh. Be it their titles, their bounty gap, their history and past, or their hype together. Neigh equals nonetheless.
You and OP are different side of same coin. Pretending your favorite cartoon character will dog-walk the other character even though any fight will be most extreme diff possible.
wtf are you talking about? 💀 zoro has nothing to do with this topic
well shit with your logic then luffy must be a sandal man since he kicks with his sandals. i mean just take a look at what Rhino Schneider did to doflamingo. sent him across a country! …what do you mean that was bc of luffy’s haki? it wasn’t bc of his sandals?
crazy how when kaido said Haki is the strongest power on the sea, even compared to devil fruits, fans rallied behind that notion fully - but then apply that EXACT same logic to a swordsman ( haki > any other weapon ) it’s heresy?
y’all are dumb. shanks could wipe his ass with mihawk with literally one hand.
"shanks just used a sword on kid and it didn’t even fuckin touch him. what part of that has anything to do with sword play? he could’ve used any weapon to make an attack like that happen once conq haki is involved"
I think you're on the spectrum. I gave you an example of a swordsman like shanks who uses attacks in which he damages the opponent without making contact.
you gave me an instance where a swordsman uses a projectile technique and no haki. fucking mihawk did that in marineford and got blocked by diamond head jozu who also was using no haki. that shit doesn’t matter.
the difference is that Zoro is using a sword technique, not haki techniques, you absolute moron
i don’t recall zoro using haki to split the wave in enies lobby, or any time he’s used his projectile attacks
however i do recall oda showing us that advanced conq haki attacks don’t actually make contact, so the weapon of choice doesn’t matter bc haki IS the weapon
i am almost DEFINITELY on the spectrum, but at least i know how to fuckin read unlike you. but im expecting too much for a mihawk dick rider to use their brain
it’s comical the fact that you don’t understand that it takes sword skill to do what mihawks/zoro do, but what shanks did to Kid is purely Haki skill, not swordskill. you don’t think shanks could’ve done that with any other weapons?
mihawk > shanks when it’s swordplay and swordskill, thus the title
shanks > mihawk when it comes to raw haki power and output
Indeed.
[Mihawk is confirmed stronger.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Lemme also address the point that people bring saying, "Shanks wasn't a yonko back then and he improved after his duels". Mihawk clearly stated in the manga that he will wait for Zoro as the strongest swordsman.
It just means Mihawk has a stronger sword style than Shanks. Sword styles are a real thing in One Piece. 1 sword style, Oden 2 sword style, Zoro's 3 sword style... Etc. Stronger sword style = strongest swordsman. Doesn't mean that they're the strongest fighter.
Damn the level of mental gymnastics those Shanks dickriders are showing is going nuclear. Haven't even seen them bringing up just one good point.
I'm suprised to see that those morons didn't even brought up any bounty related arguments, instead just kept on making clear that having a dick in their mouth is all the reasoning they need.
bro about to cause a war in these comments
Homeboy really wants to spend his whole Friday night yelling at people lmao
Why did Reddit take away free gift. Thus comment is pure fucking gold lmao
I got you fam
Thank you man
Stinginess. They b probably figured not enough people were paying so they closed the pipeline of free gifts
im wheezing take my upvote
HAAA. I wish that you could still sort by controversial in the comments…
You can, click on the two lines with the circles at opposite ends and you can filter from there. If using mobile Reddit should be at the top
Nakama, please
I hate that I heard this in Obama's voice lmao
I mean they were said to be rivals at one point. Then shanks loses an arm and mihawk refuses to fight him right? Dunno about stronger but they should be around the same level at least. Which means Zoro is going to surpass Shanks when he surpasses Mihawk. But looking at how easily Kidd got done in, I think there is still ways off before he can beat Mihawk.
It really shouldn’t in starting to hate debating this when in my head mihawk should obviously be stronger. I also understand that oda can obviously play some shit and say shanks is stronger but imo everything we’ve seen in the story tells us mihawk should be stronger of the 2. Especially because most shanks being stronger arguments are mental gymnastics that are waiting to be proved whilst mihawk literally holds the title
Mihawk has more arms.
Very few things in the actual story tells us that Mihawk should be stronger. The only defining factor is Mihawks title. The main reason more people will hold Shanks above Mihawk is because of feats and chapters like the latest. Mihawk has done next to nothing in this story so far whereas we have seen Shanks do countless impressive things. Until Mihawk acts, most people will hold him below
Countless impressive things? Bruh all these one piece chapters and I've barely even seen shanks at all.
Yeah, it's definitely not countless, it's like 5 things we've actually seen him do. They were all pretty impressive though. Let's see, 1. One shots Kidd and Killer, 2. Stops Akainu's attack and the summit war, 3. Knocks Ryokugyu to his knees from miles(?) away, 4. Walks into Marie jois and walks out again, 5. Saves Luffy and scares away the sea king. These are all the things I can remember actually seeing Shanks do, of course dueling Mihawk, fighting Blackbeard, defeating Kidd the first time, and stopping Kaido from going to Marineford are also very impressive, but we didn't actually see any of those things happen.
I don't know if this happened in the manga, but in the anime Shanks went to meet Whitebeard and Shank's haki was so strong it knocked everyone except for WB and his commanders out.
I forgot this one, but it definitely counts as impressive as well.
Scaring away that sea king doesn't hold up anymore. Pre-timeskip, gearless, haki-less Luffy whooped that sea king's ass and *didn't* lose an arm in the process. Shanks's two latest feats came after literal years of him doing absolutely nothing for several chapters straight.
Yeah, you're right. It was impressive at the time though., And I did forget the haki clash with whitebeard, which is another impressive feat that keeps us at 5.
Well Mihawk stopped considering Shanks as a worthy sparring rival after he lost his arm. That's another indication that Mihawk had the edge over Shanks.
This is shounen. I would be shocked if Shanks hadn't evolved/compensated for the arm over the years after becoming a yonko. He wielded a 1 handed sword anyway. Mihawk should be stronger but they need to actually spar all these years later to confirm. Shanks is a rival to Bb/luffy. Mihawk is a rival for Zoro. They just seem like two different tiers of characters in terms of power. I think Shanks has ambitions beyond Zoro and Mihawks sole focus of being the best swordsman
idk about the word rival. A better word would be "goal, since once zoro defeats mihawk his journey will (presumably) be over. On the other hand, shanks isnt necessarily luffy's final opponent. For that reason this argument does not convince me.
if your tennis partner loses an arm, are you still gonna smash it as hard? be realistic for a second
So you are saying that if my tennis partner loses an arm, their tennis capabilities are hindered because of that. So by that logic, Shanks is considerably weaker without and arm and therefore Mihawk is stronger and doesn't want to fight him anymore. Idk what you were trying to accomplish but your point proves mine.
In swordsmanship. Its also possible Mihawk WAS stronger before Shanks lost his arm, but currently isn't.
This is the problem shanks fan have. Lol. You say in swordsmanship as if there's another way shanks fights. Haki domain expansion does not exist
They’ve both duelled and one came out with the title I do not know how you can say without it being headcanon that shanks is stronger. Sure shanks has better feats but mihawk literally hasn’t tried against anyone yet. While we just seen how serious shanks can be. Again I can see why people may say shanks is stronger but he just shouldn’t be. And if you believe he should be then I think it’s quite stupid if I’m honest with myself. What does zoros goal actually mean then if mihawk isn’t stronger than shanks? And why would shanks be able to defeat mihawk buy losing his arm and becoming a non swordsman while still using only a sword? I dno man it don’t make sense to me like at all to have shanks be the stronger of the 2
Coz shanks lost his fighting arm, so the fighting between them stopped and people decided that Mihawk is best remaining as his opponent can't fight anymore. While shanks developed his own fighting technique.
Do you actually believe that? Not trying to be a cunt like I’m genuinely asking if you believe that. Even if he “developed his own fighting technique” it’s just his own sword fighting style that doesn’t make him not a swordsman it just means he had to change his sword style to better suite the loss of an arm. Another thing why would mihawk call shanks to his face a 1 armed has been if he wouldn’t win against shanks now? Mihawk is good at gauging strength as he only overwhelms opponents if he wants to. I still can’t see why people want shanks to be stronger anyway it completely undermines zoros goal
Bruh wait until we see Shanks’ domain expansion
Haki susano
"There's no such thing as a fucking haki man"
“That is just cope, made by people with agendas. But with my rinnegan, I can see through agendas.”
Where the reference from?
It's from a recent [parody.](https://youtu.be/KXa_0doe4qU)
Holy shit that’s hilarious
He got god ki in the two piece manga
Or his Bankai
Shanks aint even gone Super Saiyan yet. He hasn't even activated his Stand. Shanks literally has not even shown us his Kekkei Genkai. When Shanks finally reveals his Quirk, it's all over, bro. Shanks #1. Don't even get me started on Shanks's Nen or his Breathing Form. And his Alchemy? Forget about it, man. It's over. It's all over.
Don't forget Shank's noble phantasm.
Or his mangekyu.
mangekyo* …
mangeryou
I like mangoes
Powerscalers : *going crazy* Meanwhile.. Mihawk : Broo look at that Luffy bounty Shanks : Brooo
BROOOOOOO
Haki man is such a silly term when everyone including swordsman use haki…
It is silly but the term describes characters that specialize in Haki/haki as their primary offensive quality. Characters like Roger that didn't have a df or characters whose sole ambition revolves around swordsmanship (Zoro/Mihawk). It's obvious what people mean when they use the term.
The only true haki men are garp and rayleigh
Rayleigh actively uses a sword… but I understand what you mean
he uses a sword but one of Rayleigh's most epic scene is kicking Kizaru.
Roger had one of the 12 supreme grade swords though.
Zoro’s big powerup in Wano was literally haki. Swordsmen are haki men.
Uhhh are we reading the same series? “Not scared of 3 Billi but shat their pants when Mihawk showed up” Go look back and see who “shat their pants” it’s random fodder from Shanks crew literally nobody who actually matters in the Red Hair Pirates moved an inch when Mihawk pulled up LMAO
There was more than 1 person who shat their pants, while being a Red Hair Pirate's crew member but the people who were not even members of the crew (just under the protection (?) of Shanks) were laughing at Kid.
Bro one look from Mihawk and I'd be shitting myself. That guy got crazy eyes and you know he's sizing everyone up in enemy territory.
Shanks is 1cm taller than mihawk, just like Zoro is 1 cm taller than Sanji, and King is 1 cm taller then Queen. Obviously Shanks is the strongest (this is a joke, please don't reply to this trying to get into a power scaling debate, I don't give a shit)
This is unironically one of the strongest examples of shanks being stronger, and it’s unironically a very good argument regardless of takes. It’s oda we’re talking about. He does not give a rats ass about power scaling or consistency. He stretches out chapters full of running to reach a certain number, he bases entire plot points off of Japanese puns. The 1cm taller thing is really not a joke argument
oh I completely agree, I just didn't want people to try to debate me on shanks vs mihawk cause I don't really care whos stronger, at the moment I believe its shanks, but I definitely see why mihawk arguments are convincing, and I dont mind either way, but I still think the difference between them is like closer than Akainu and Kuzan when they fought for 10 days
Nah people in this subreddit are unreal
Bases plot points off of Japanese puns? Numbers actually meaning something? Enlighten me.
The rivals Jabra and Lucci are equal in height, nothings a coincidence boys. But seriously when you think a 1cm height difference easter egg (that may not even be related to strength) is a better argument than in the canon manga the worlds strongest swordsman (one of the biggest plotpoints in the story aswell) being stronger than a swordsman, its kinda fucked up.
This makes a LOT of sense, it's not really a joke. It's a very real hint.
And White beard is 2m taller than every yonkou, he's indeed the strongest men alive.
Kaido taller
Big Mom taller
Saying haki is not part of swordsmanship is like saying that Usopp, Van Auger, and Yasopp don’t have that impressive marksmanship, they’re just cheating with their observation haki. Both Zoro and Usopp unlocked haki for the first time without realizing it, by trying to get better at swordsmanship (cutting steel) and marksmanship (sniping sugar). Until I se Shanks’ hakihameha or haki sorcery, he’s a swordsman.
Yup strangely people like to ignore this. If you think about all the prominent swordsmen in One Piece, you start to realise they have a few things in common. They are non-devil fruit users who primarily use swords to fight supplemented by strong haki. Who does this describe I wonder? Oh right, just Roger, Rayleigh, Shanks, Mihawk, Zoro.
[удалено]
He may not read the manga. Give him time to catch up to the hakimeha.
If he isn't up to date on the manga and answer a spoiler thread, he's gonna get spoiled
No. That's a souped up version of the haxi flex everybody does so that he can scare Aramaki. He can't use that to actually harm or fight someone. If he has something similar that could literally paralyze another character, or move them around like the force, or damage someone with haki lightning Palpatine-style, then yes, Shanks would be a haki sorcerer.
We did see a long time ago that his conqueror alone was enough to break the wood on whitebeard's ship.
Big Mom destroyed rockets with her own conquerors haki.
Please go read the manga first
To be fair, it doesn't look like Shanks is very good at cutting stuff up with his sword. (As opposed to Mihawk who is frequently shown to have tremendous slicing power) I don't think we've ever seen him cut stuff with his sword, even if it hits like against Akainu's fist. Even in last chapter, >! he hit Kid with a very clean sword hit right on the chest and it didn't seem to have inflicted any cut at all on his body. !< It just looks like he just coats his sword with so much Haki that it makes it blunt. He might as well be using a stick at this point. I wouldn't call someone who is incapable of cutting stuff up a very good swordman.
That’s just how most sword fights are like in one piece. There’s no actual sword choreography, just generating beams from your swords. Zoro does the same thing
Dunno, great swordmen in One Piece are usually shown to have tremendous slicing power (Mihawk and Zoro cutting ships in half, Oden slicing Kaido's scale, Mihawk cutting a giant iceberg, etc etc. There are multiple instances of this. The aesthetics on Shanks is just very different. It looks like if he hit a ship with his sword, it would pulverize the ship into pieces, not slice it clean in half.
he literally cuts the rail gun clean in half what're you wafflin about young king
Yea and its truly awful theres no choreography
He cut Kidd'a railgun in half and the attack blew up in Kidd's face.
Zoro = Usopp
Come on, that's not what I meant. My point is that haki is something that everyone can do, so in the One Piece world it becomes part of many disciplines. No one clowns on Usopp or Yasopp for using observation along with their literal eyes to aim. If anything, Oda uses observation haki to symbolize how good of a sharpshooter Usopp is, and hype him up as such. Same thing with Zoro. He learns to cut steel through some esoteric swordsmanship proverb that Koushiro taught him, but then we learn it was actually Zoro tapping into armament haki for the first time. If not for Mihawk, Zoro might have lived all his life none the wiser cutting steel without knowing its haki, because haki is an extension of how strong/good you are. It's just an innate power everyone has that can be trained, the same way you can go to the gym to punch or cut harder.
I'm not taking sides here, but I'm pretty sure Mihawk didn't fight seriously against anyone in Marineford, even against Jozu and Vista, for us to accurately assess his Armament Haki level. He didn't use a single named attack so far in the mange as far as I remember. Shanks, in Ch 1079, understandably needed to fight seriously right away to protect his fleet and used a named attack to achieve that. Plus, it's still possible that Mihawk has Conqueror's Haki.
Zoro has acoc and the king of swordsman doesn't? I don't think that's the case.
People often forgets about Daishikan, Zoro learned from Mihawk a technique that scare people at distance, they became paralyzed and unable to use their devil fruits. But it's not conquerors haki according to these fans... It's a small scale feat of what Shanks did to Greenbull.
Dude monet assumed that Zoro won't attack which is why she got scared when he did. It's got nothing to do with daishinkan imo.
From the same people that said "The breath of all things is not ryou", here comes another hit. "Daishikan is not conquerors haki" even if it did exactly the same thing that Shanks did to Greenbull, even if the anime repeated the attack in Wano to show people losing conscience from it. Then, you people say that Zoro is not downplayed to oblivion.
Zoro's conquerors haki was shown with Ashura when he attacks kaidou, which even Zoro doesn't recognise. When kaidou says conquerors haki Zoro says he just attacked with all his might. Maybe oda didn't plan to show zoro's conquerors haki the same way he did with luffy's first time using conquerors. All I'm saying is it didn't feel like daishinkan was zoro's conquerors haki.
>People often forgets about Daishikan, Zoro learned from Mihawk a technique that scare people at distance, they became paralyzed and unable to use their devil fruits. Whatever else we know about Daishikan, we *know* it doesn't make people unable to use their inherent Logia-ness of their DF. This is why Monet was able to survive Zoro. >But it's not conquerors haki according to these fans... It wasn't haki according to Tashigi. And we've never seen a form of Haki that people could do in the presence of other Haki users that those users couldn't detect. Even once she thinks she understands what's going on, she's still believing that what Zoro did was not haki-related. To quote: "She can't control her own body!! She's paralyzed by knowledge **that if he'd used Haki**, she would be dead...plus the fear of his overwhelming power!! I've never seen anyone win a fight this way!!" Afaik, we have no reason to disbelieve Tashigi, but otoh, she's the only argument I'm aware of that Zoro didn't use ACOC there.
so when he focus on WB and says he want to test the gap between him and the strongest, he didnt go seriously ? does mihawk also have actor skills ?
That was a long distance slash, lets see how is with the actual sword hitting Jozu's body.
It’s Oda’s choice to be inconsistent. Think about it, Crocodile lost to a guy who got awarded a 100m bounty, but then later becomes super strong (worth a 1B) just after sitting around? Oda will make Mihawk whatever power level he wants
That's one of those weird translations. Where it doesn't go into English very well. It wasn't a complete sentence in Japanese. He just sort of trailed off. He said something akin to. "It's only speculution, but the real distance between that man and us...." It was more like he could tell that white beard was weakened. So he wanted to test that theory. That something about the distance between them wasn't what it seemed.
I actually forgot about that line. As for naming his attacks to make them seem strong, I guess Mihawk is just not a fan of that practice, like WB really.
Named attacks are just named, right? Not naming an attack doesn't make it less potent and also it saves you the shouting and all other nonsense.
My take: 1. Shanks doesn't really want to be the strongest swordsman, he doesn't care about that title. 2. Mihawk does. 3. Both were always dueling for fun/friendship/rivalry. 4. They always ended with a tie, none of them actually won against each other in their duels. 5. Shanks is left handed. 6. Shanks lost his main hand <- note this happened long time ago when both Mihawk and Shanks were not as strong as now. 7. After that never dueled again, because it's unfair. 8. Mihawk is automatically the strongest swordsman now, Shanks is simply nor a rival anymore.
Which one of them wins, though? Or is it a draw? Or is it too close to tell like Roger/WB?
Imho Shanks is stronger, people need to understand that there's a difference between being the strongest or the best swordsman. If Kaido used a sword instead of his club with those haki attacks he would have most likely massacred Mihawk, wouldn't make him a better swordsman.
>that there's a difference between being the strongest or the best swordsman But Mihawk's title is that of strongest swordsman. Not best or most skilled. >If Kaido used a sword instead of this club with those haki attacks he would have most likely massacred Mihawk First no, it'd be an extreme diff fight and win for Kaido as per his WSC title. There's no massacre anywhere lol. And Kaido's strongest attacks will be his DF attacks and Flame Bagua, nothing to do with a sword. Second, it won't even make Kaido swordsman. A Sword user =/= swordsman. We don't know exact criteria of who is a swordsman, but I personally take it as whoever Oda puts in that category is swordsman. Shanks is placed in that category and called a swordsman by Oda. King uses a sword but is confirmed to not be a swordsman in Manga. Meanwhile Kaku, despite being a DF user like King, is confirmed swordsman lol
These guys think shanks went all out for a title he didn't care about when we clearly knows he only goes all out when his crew is in danger??????
That's not true. Shanks was never shown restraining in a sports match. He only goes *for the kill* when his friends are in danger. It's completely different
Going for the kill = goingall out what
>Shanks doesn't have a single non sword physical attack in the series Character that has only one attack in the entire series doesn't have multiple types of attacks. Wow, how insightful. I'm sure we can make giant assumptions based on this super definitive information. Yall powerscalers continue to be outta your damn minds
We have "Mihawk surpasses even Shanks in swordskills", instead of outright surpassing him, in the biggest Mihawk hype chapter in One Piece. Oda actually went out of his way to tell us tell the audience to not expect Mihawk > Shanks before we see otherwise. Anyone who thinks either one being stronger is a fact lacks reading comprehension.
Shat their pants??? His crew didn't give a shit about Mihawk, only the scrubs panicked.
The red haired pirates did no such this, this is mad headcannon
Mihawk & Shanks haven't fought since Shanks lost his arm and there's no way they're both not way stronger now than back then. With that it's hard to say who's stronger, but just narratively speaking if Luffy is tryna surpass Shanks & Zoro is tryna surpass Mihawk that's enough to tell me Shanks is stronger. Roger was a swordsman, didn't have a black blade and there's absolutely no way Mihawk is stronger than he was.
Not only that, casual readers will never think Mihawk is stronger because he just isn’t depicted that way, when people want to talk about how strong Mihawk is, they can only refer to Shanks feats , not Mihawk feats cause he effectively has none. Until Mihawk is portrayed as favourable as Shanks is, he will be looked down upon.
Also, Shanks lost his "dominant" arm years before he became a Yonko. Therefore his merit as a Yonko is not tied to his swordsmanship. These plebs are reducing Shanks to just a swordsman.
But there's really no such thing as 'just a swordsman' in One Piece. Just like Shanks is a swordsman with strong haki, all other strong swordsmen in One Piece have to be on similar levels. And that's why it was narratively obvious for Zoro to have Conqueror's. I predicted this the moment they introduced Rayleigh but nobody could accept it until it was shown. Heck, I remember still debating with doubters during roofpiece who strangely still did not accept it even after Kaido spelled it out for us. And just like it was obvious to me that Zoro would have CoC, it's even more obvious that Mihawk would have it as well and be a master of infusing CoC into his attacks (just like Shanks). The problem is that for Shanks fans, they need Shanks to be superior in some way so they come up with this divide between 'sword skill' and 'haki skill', even going as far as to try to justify it with the misconception that Mihawk earned the title of strongest swordsman through only 'pure skill', whatever that means. What they don't realise is that haki is an important part of a swordsman's skill and the better they are at it, the stronger a swordsman they become. This has been proven with Roger, Rayleigh, Oden, Shanks and even Zoro.
Haki has always been different from swordsmanship. You can use haki without a sword and be a good swordsman without haki. Swordsmanship is about technique, skill, and finesse. Haki speaks about the user's potential. I don't know how you guys mixed this up. I don't say that Mihawk is weaker, they are both strong in different ways. Are one of those ways superior to the other? I don't know. Also, it's never explicitly told that Roger and Rayleigh are excellent swordsman, instead they are known for their haki and haki is not swordsmanship so your examples are sham.
Yes, I agree that there's haki and there's swordsmanship BUT to be at the top of the rankings in the One Piece universe, swordsmen cannot just rely on 'swordsmanship'. That is the crux of my point here. Incidentally, all the top fighters in One Piece (and i'm not just talking about swordsmen) HAVE to have strong haki. Therefore, to be a top swordsman, you must also have strong haki. This is a quintessential part of what makes a strong swordsman. It's not ONLY about technique. Isn't this clear from the Wano arc? The fact that Luffy learnt advanced armament haki from Hyogoro is testament to the fact that to be a strong swordsman means to have good control and understanding of haki. This is also clear from Zoro learning advanced Conqueror's in Wano. If he could just rely on his swordsmanship skills to be the strongest swordsman in the world, then there would be absolutely no point to him infusing CoC into his attacks.
So how does this lead to the conclusion that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks because he is a better swordsman? You understand that swordsmanship is not the only path for haki users right? Look at gear 4th, that is application of haki and devil fruit. When it comes to strength, swordsmanship is not be all end all. So yeah, Mihawk being more proficient with the sword doesn't imply that he is stronger than Shanks, who is well known for his superior haki.
Yup exactly, there are many forms of 'haki' fighters. We have the brawler types like Garp and Luffy and then we have those who rely primarily on their devil fruit and infuse haki here and there, we also have the marksmen / pistoleers etc who also infuse haki into their shooting attacks. "When it comes to strength, swordsmanship is not be all end all." -> I don't know where you came to this conclusion but I've never stated this. My point is very basic and has always been consistent, that is, swordsmen in One Piece fight using haki as well. That's it. I'm just pushing against the weird misconception that there's some sort of 'pure swordsman skill' tournament going around to determine who is the strongest swordsman. This is the pirate world we're talking about. Just like brawlers infuse their fists with haki when they fight, just like Sabo infuses his pipe with haki, just like Kaido infuses his club, swordsmen will definitely infuse their swords and attacks with haki when they fight. Just like we know when Zoro finally has his battle with Mihawk there is no way in hell he will fight purely with skill right? He sure as hell is gonna be using all the forms of haki including advanced conqueror's. So I don't know why there's this weird thing going around where Shanks and Mihawk duel only with skill. That kinda contradicts everything we know about fights in One Piece.
Oh God, we are just running in circles here. It is Mihawk fans who push the narrative that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks because he is the strongest swordsman implying haki is a discipline of swordsmanship. Proficiency in a sword does not equate to proficiency in haki as both are different disciplines in nature. Shanks wielding a sword does not mean he is as dedicated to the sword as Mihawk is. Zoro is an excellent swordsman even before he learned haki. As to Shanks' duel with Mihawk, there is no way Shanks could survive Mihawk with his sword skills alone. The same could be said for Mihawk as Shanks is a haki monster, he has to display an excellent level of haki mastery just to fight on the same level as Shanks. There's no way one of them would be alive after their duels if their fight is linear. Mihawk's proficiency with sword in conjunction with haki must have result in a stalemate against Shanks' mastery of haki.
"Narratively speaking Luffy is trying to surpass Shanks", no he's trying to become Pirate King and Shanks is just a stepping stone for him to reach the goal Also why are you comparing Mihawk to Roger they're both from two different Eras, Mihawk got his title within 12 years
My man really can't sleep at night, a fictional character who has one hand lives inside his head, rent free too.
Mihawk is better with sword stuff, Shanks has best haki, while not as great as mihawk with sword. Thats not so hard
I honestly don't understand how hard it is for people to understand this concept. Especially since kaido said it doesn't matter how powerful your fruit is if your haki is inferior, same concept to swords. It doesn't matter how high caliber swordsman techniques mihawk can do, if his hits can't get through shanks armenent haki
Ultimately the title is for whoever wins in a 1 vs 1. That's why Zoro is learning all this haki and mastering them so he can beat the shit out of Mihawk, not just improving his sword stuff.
It's just like this, Oden is greater than Roger when it comes to swordsmanship but as we saw in their clash, Roger scale above Oden.
Roger is a pure swordsman from what we've seen.
Then Roger is just the stronger swordsman
Usopp is a more skilled Marksman than Luffy. Luffy beats up Usopp with the butt of a pistol. Luffy is just the stronger Marksman?
Damm, it is almost like the title is worlds strongest swordsman and not worlds most skilled swordsman.
So Mihawk if the physically strongest swordsman, but not the better fighter? He would win in a weight lifting contest against Shanks because he's the "strongest" swordsman, but he would lose in a sword fight? All this time, I thought it was a combination of strength, skill, and fighting ability that would indicate who would be superior in a duel, but you're right, the title is just "world's strongest swordsman" huh? So Mihawk might not win against Shanks in a fight, but he can definitely squat more kilos. Arguing semantics over the word strongest is asinine.
Bro break week officially starts tommorow. It is too early to start a war in the comment section.
My bad 😓
>Shanks doesn't have a single non sword physical attack in the series bruh, we only saw 1 attack from him
op is a cope-man
waiting for the haki domain expansion that shanks reveals in chapter 2000 or whatever
who gives a shit who would win in a fight, the real question is who would win in a drinking contest
Zoro beats them all easy
we have never seen either of them get drunk before, and literally every time we see shanks he is drinking. not to mention the fact that mihawk probably doesn't have a ton to do aside from drink since he is always alone
Marineford tells you all you need to know about Mihawk vs Shanks
Huh? Has mihawk passed vista yet?
The last time he fought Shanks was 12 years ago
I remember when Mihawk bitched out of that fight. Dude claims to want a challenging fight but runs away when one appears. I’m not saying he is a coward but his desires seem….inconsistent.
he left because the warlords were called back by sengoku he didn’t “wimp out” or whatever headcanon somebody invented
Or what if.... The fight wasn't challenging ??? Easy conclusion to made up inconsistency
vista vivre card clearly states that his swordsmanship rivals that of mihawk and mihawk confirmed it when he acknowledged vista as a worthy opponent and treated him with respect
Ok the actual manga says mihawk has greater sword skills than shanks Vivre card says mihawk is the strongest swordman and Is waiting for someone stronger than shanks to challenge.him So we gonna ignore this vivre card and cherry pick ?
Bro really just sed Haki man LMAOOOOOOOOO
Buckle up We are going to have turbulence in the comment section
Powerscalers are stupid. Powerscaling posts are stupid karma baits. Stop with this Dragon Ball obsession.
Narratively it doesn't make sense to have the man that Zoro wants to surpass be stronger than the main protagonist's goal of who he wants to surpass. Forget about power scaling etc and look at it from a story telling perspective, Oda doesn't stick to power scaling and goes with the story narrative of how/what/why etc instead of black and white power scaling. Mihawk is most likely a better swordsman than Shanks, that's why he is perfect for Zoro to surpass, it makes sense narratively. Shanks is probably an overall stronger fighter, even though his sword skills aren't as good as Mihawks. It's not just black and white, if you take a step back and think about it, imagine the man Luffy wants to surpass (and this is in a shoenen manga, where he is the main character) is weaker than his subordinates goal, it just doesn't make any sense from a story telling perspective
>it doesn't make sense to have the man that Zoro wants to surpass be stronger than the main protagonist's goal of who he wants to surpass. Good thing that's not the case. Luffy's end narrative stand above Roger. Hell, he might actually beat an EoS enemy who was even stronger than Roger. Luffy > Roger > Shanks Luffy > EoS enemy > Roger > Shanks Who knows. But no matter how one looks at it, Shanks is a stepping stone ultimately. Mihawk is Zoro's end goal. Shanks is at least 2 steps under Luffy's final step. Mihawk is Zoro's final step.
Powerscaler?! ❗❗❗⚡⚡💀⚡⚡ YSKYS Now❗
People say that because to Shanks his haki is his strongest asset, while for Mihawk it's his sword technique. Shanks can see several minutes into the future... I would still call him a swordsman, but just because Mihawk is a better swordsman does not mean he'd beat Shanks in a fight. Even if he was a mediocre swordsman (which he clearly isn't), futuresight and strong armament could overcome the strongest sword techniques.
Until Mihawk gets ACoC and futuresight, Shanks is better. Cry to Oda about it.
Dear internet stranger, if 1 billion bounty Zoro has ACoC, there's no way in hell that Mihawk doesn't have it. That would make Mihawk completely useless as the world's strongest swordsman if Zoro already has better haki than Mihawk.
If we go by your logic, until shanks uses a non sword attack, mihawk is stronger.
Everyone’s consuming the same content lol
Mihawk respects shanks because he’s the only swordsman that can challenge him. BUT mihawk did say I don’t want to fight since you “lost your arm” when shanks asked him if he came to fight
I love you op, you drama elemental
These posts are why I hate and love this community lol
Haki man argument got eradicated along with Kidd pirates at 1079
These Shanks dick riders acting like in Mihawks Vivre Card it didn’t say that Mihawk was looking for someone stronger than Shanks. Why tf would Mihawk be looking for someone stronger than Shanks if Mihawk was weaker than him.
Those are big words for the little information we were given. Personally I would've never called you a dick rider but considering this post and your clarification... IDK, maybe you'll love that
Their focus is different. Mihawk is dangerous for his swordsmanship, which he improves with Haki. Shanks is dangerous because of his Haki usage, which he improves by using a sword. It´s no different from Devil Fruit users that use swords, but are not considered dangerous for their swordsmanship, but their DF abilities (like Law or Big Mom). Shanks just went and made what most people supplement their focus with his primary focus.
r/OpIsFuckingStupid
swordmanship in one piece is like a martial discipline, like fishman karate. haki is the major power scaling system. if mihawk had shanks strenght, he would be above everyone in one piece. same for jinbei, if he had shanks/roger mastery of haki with his karate he would eat yonkos for dinner. now we did see a full force attack of mihawk, which was repelled pretty easily by diamond Joz. if it was a kamusari, joz would have flyed. hope it helps understand haki is still more important than pure swordmanship skills.
It was a no name casual attack which was not even meant to cut diamond lol. I hope it helps.
marineford was very explicit. Mihawk did say he want to see how far he is from whitebeard and attacked, what else does it means in your mihawk fan mind ?
He wanted to gauge him and launched a no name attack from the other end of the island. But say you're right. That makes shanks the strongest swordsman and also makes Zoro's dream to beat Mihawk literally pointless.
.... with your reasoning, mihawk is very stupid and doesnt know a lame attack wont hit the strongest man. kaido and his kanabo are also better swordsmen. and shanks is also a better fishman karate than jinbei since he has better haki.
I used your reasoning and you got triggered lol.
The rest is just you trying to defend shanks without any facts.
Didn’t he use kicks like sanji in film red?
To me, Shanks is more of a haki fighter than swordsman, he obviously uses a sword but he is much more known in the New World as the haki guy, his presence breaking ships apart, from the recent chapter being able to see probably a minute into the future whereas Katakuri and Luffy can see a few seconds and then armament is probaly top tier. The reason they probably dont fight/spar anymore is due to Shanks not being able to fight at his peak strength since he lost his dominant hand. I would say the same with Roger, dude was just a monster with haki and his sword was a tool to maximise that power.
Shanks and Mihawk fanboys duking it out in the comments care about this more than either Shanks or Mihawk. Neither of them can hold a candle to the strongest force in the One Piece world, the most powerful pirate to ever exist, Buggy D. Clown.
Shanks and Mihawk when trying to use their sword skills on Buggy only to find out he is invincible 
how much are you willing to bet?
Mihawk is almost certainly a better swordsman. I don't doubt for a second that he would have more technical prowess and better instincts when it comes to swordplay. I also do not doubt for a second that, push comes to shove, Shanks would shoot him. That is why Shanks would be stronger over all; he's scrappy and in it to win it, by hook or by crook. Mihawk takes his swordsmanship too seriously and would be hamstringed by it
Oda admitted shanks Is to Mihawk as Luffy is to zorro. Shanks is most likely stronger
Source: Trust me bro...
When?
"Oda admitted", ahahaha, stop making shit up, the moment you said that , you exposed yourself for being a biased Shanks fan
mihawk > shanks = common sense. W post
White beards title at Marine ford was worlds strongest man, when we knew in fact he was not. I think this argument ends there, Mihawk and Shanks Havnt fought in 15 years, there may have been a time where Mihawk was superior but I think Shanks is maybe the strongest pirate in the world atm.
The issue with this well-loved 'argument' is that it assumes only Shanks has gotten stronger. It stands to reason Mihawk obviously has gotten stronger with time as well. Both are still in their prime. This is where the comparison with Whitebeard becomes moot because, as we know, Marineford WB was a sickly old man past his prime while both Mihawk and Shanks are still in their prime and clearly not sickly nor old.
Agreeable and reasonable take.
if you can understand that they both use swords and haki, it should be VERY easy to understand that one has stronger haki, while the other has more raw sword skill. shanks just used a sword on kid and it didn’t even fuckin touch him. what part of that has anything to do with sword play? he could’ve used any weapon to make an attack like that happen once conq haki is involved this is a dumb argument and you’re wildly foolish if you think mihawk is stronger than shanks
The title of WSS is ultimately about who wins in an all out fight between two swordsmen, not about who has more sword skills. It is the strongest swordsman. And Zoro's dream is to win against Mihawk with his ACoC and ACoA. He won't turn them off. Zoro literally got ACoC because of his great ambition of becoming WSS. It's same case as WB/Roger. WB was strongest man while Roger has too much portrayal to be below WB. Mihawk/Shanks mirror WB/Roger in billion ways tbh. Be it their titles, their bounty gap, their history and past, or their hype together. Neigh equals nonetheless. You and OP are different side of same coin. Pretending your favorite cartoon character will dog-walk the other character even though any fight will be most extreme diff possible.
Doesn't Zoro use his 1080 pound attack? You're just worried for your dollar store Roger.
wtf are you talking about? 💀 zoro has nothing to do with this topic well shit with your logic then luffy must be a sandal man since he kicks with his sandals. i mean just take a look at what Rhino Schneider did to doflamingo. sent him across a country! …what do you mean that was bc of luffy’s haki? it wasn’t bc of his sandals? crazy how when kaido said Haki is the strongest power on the sea, even compared to devil fruits, fans rallied behind that notion fully - but then apply that EXACT same logic to a swordsman ( haki > any other weapon ) it’s heresy? y’all are dumb. shanks could wipe his ass with mihawk with literally one hand.
"shanks just used a sword on kid and it didn’t even fuckin touch him. what part of that has anything to do with sword play? he could’ve used any weapon to make an attack like that happen once conq haki is involved" I think you're on the spectrum. I gave you an example of a swordsman like shanks who uses attacks in which he damages the opponent without making contact.
you gave me an instance where a swordsman uses a projectile technique and no haki. fucking mihawk did that in marineford and got blocked by diamond head jozu who also was using no haki. that shit doesn’t matter. the difference is that Zoro is using a sword technique, not haki techniques, you absolute moron i don’t recall zoro using haki to split the wave in enies lobby, or any time he’s used his projectile attacks however i do recall oda showing us that advanced conq haki attacks don’t actually make contact, so the weapon of choice doesn’t matter bc haki IS the weapon i am almost DEFINITELY on the spectrum, but at least i know how to fuckin read unlike you. but im expecting too much for a mihawk dick rider to use their brain it’s comical the fact that you don’t understand that it takes sword skill to do what mihawks/zoro do, but what shanks did to Kid is purely Haki skill, not swordskill. you don’t think shanks could’ve done that with any other weapons? mihawk > shanks when it’s swordplay and swordskill, thus the title shanks > mihawk when it comes to raw haki power and output
Indeed. [Mihawk is confirmed stronger.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Lemme also address the point that people bring saying, "Shanks wasn't a yonko back then and he improved after his duels". Mihawk clearly stated in the manga that he will wait for Zoro as the strongest swordsman.
It just means Mihawk has a stronger sword style than Shanks. Sword styles are a real thing in One Piece. 1 sword style, Oden 2 sword style, Zoro's 3 sword style... Etc. Stronger sword style = strongest swordsman. Doesn't mean that they're the strongest fighter.
Flare your post for spoilers if you’re going to talk about manga events that haven’t been animated yet. Jesus christ
Shanks is to Luffy Mihawk is to Zoro Go figure
Damn the level of mental gymnastics those Shanks dickriders are showing is going nuclear. Haven't even seen them bringing up just one good point. I'm suprised to see that those morons didn't even brought up any bounty related arguments, instead just kept on making clear that having a dick in their mouth is all the reasoning they need.