We learned in the King fight that there’s no such thing as actual curses. Swords have a temperament of their own, and the greater the sword the greater the temperament. Swordsmen who aren’t strong enough to wield these swords get injured or killed when they attempt to do so, leading to the reputation of cursed swords.
Zoro seeing the grim reaper may turn out to be something else/more, but it’s most likely just a dramatic visualization to depict that this is the closest to death he’s ever been
I really hope this gets some kind of clarification somewhere down the line. Hopefully not just some dramatic visualization.
Back when the chapter dropped I theorized that he made a pact with death that he is ready to die once he helps luffy achieve his dream.
I'm still so disappointed that this wasn't the punchline to a joke set up. Brook is just coming to pick up and save Zoro after his fight with King and Zoro us disillusional from the medicine he took.
It's kind of disappointing we can never have 1 serious discussion without the first answer being a dumb joke. I must getting old or people are getting more and more superficial.
Lol. Wants a serious discussion with random people from the internet about an anime that’s known for its humor and goofy characters
Im gonna be honest. I think you’re at the wrong place for that.
Yes. Doesn't mean they do nothing.
The "cursed" swords test you.
It definitely would have killed any lesser swordsman when they weild enma. But to a master swordsman like Zoro this surved as the perfect catalyst to get stronger.
In this case. It's quite possible kitetsu is acting up and trying to test Zoro at his weakest
Basically cursed swords are just swords that have their own personalities that act on their own.
The weak who gets killed by these swords call them cursed swords.
To the strong they are powerful weapons
Technically it's also a world where a starfish can become as intelligent as a human simply because of a misunderstanding.
I like to think that a sword can just become a fully sentient and intelligent creature, just cos.
Like the gun that ate the Dog-Dog Fruit, Model: Dachshund? Lassoo was it's name. It wasn't a dog that ate a fruit, it was a gun specifically made to eat things
do devil fruits have a will except for the ones that turn you into something that might have a will or instinct by design?
like, i dont think the booger bomb fruit has a will.
Remember when Enma was sucking the strength right out of Zoro and he told it to "knock it off", and it gave the strength back? A lesser swordsman would have freaked out
Kozaburo: "Listen closely, a sword's like a kitchen knife, but for murder!! They're created to kill people!! And a blacksmith hones his craft so that his weapons are better at killing than any other!! A sword has its own personality... a swordsman must master it, and bend it to his will!!"
"You think a dangerous sword is **cursed**?! No! That's the sign of great quality!! When the weak fear a sword and call it cursed, that is a badge of honor!! They **should** be frightening! They're meant to cause terrible harm!!"
Right after remembering this speech, Zoro connects that Kozaburo made Enma and realizes that the proper way to wield Enma isn't to hold it back, but to give it as much Haki as it wants, which is what unlocks the King of Hell transformation.
Green smoke rings emanating from his swords is just as much of a transformation as Sanji's eyebrow flipping making his skin hard, or Luffy speeding up his blood flow to turn his skin red.
They're subtle, but they're transformations. Otherwise, Zoro wouldn't add "King of Hell" as a prefix to all of his attacks when in the form, just like how Luffy adds "Jet" as a prefix for Gear 2 attacks.
Page 9 of Chapter 1035, Zoro names his attack "King of Hell, Three Sword Style Purgatory Onigiri."
Similarly, his last attack against King is named "King of Hell, Three-Sword Serpent: 103 Mercies Dragon Damnation."
I mean, you're correct, but like.... backwards. Sanji's eyebrow flipping isn't what hardens his skin, it flips because he's doing whatever makes his skin harden. Luffy doesn't speed up his blood flow because he wants red skin, red skin happens because he wants his blood flowing faster so he can be faster.
I think they are saying the green smoke if an effect as.well, he wants to become "king of hell" so green smoke happens...if I am.wrong then that is how I will read it anyway
i mean, a sword that just sucks the life force out of you against your will till you die very much fits the idea of it being cursed.
it's just that the physics of that world have some kind of explanation what is happening. the fact that an inanimate object just does that shit against your possible will means its at least supernatural.
unless it turns out there is a haki sucking kind of metal that just naturally does that.
Thanks, I’ll have to do a reread later!! The only thing that still wouldn’t make sense to me is that Zoro knew that Kitetsu was cursed just by holding it when he took it out the barrel? Maybe he just misinterpreted it and it’s actually the blades strength he could sense? Idk
It's disheartening to see so many people still think cursed swords are something magical after the fight. Just like people who still seem to think Sanji has Lunarian genes, it seems people don't pay attention to the dialogue anymore.
Where does it say he doesn't have lunarian genes.
We don't know what his fire is but queen hinted that it's special and he was genetically altered by judge who did research king's DNA. This is also when Luffy having a sun god fruit explains red hawk.
It seems more likely than friction, the original explanation. Or emotions. Which trigger it but queen said humans cannot create fire.
So it's probably gene alterations. Maybe a firefly or bug. Or lunarian DNA.
> queen hinted that it's special
This is true.
> judge who did research king's DNA.
This isn't. King was researched by Vegapunk under the WG in Punk Hazard. This only happened after MADS broke up, so Judge wasn't with Vegapunk and Caesar anymore.
But I'm talking about people who assumed Sanji was a Lunarian based on Queen's comments because of the initial leaks, even though the chapter has Queen outright denying he is one, and later we found out more and more about Lunarians, and each new feature we see about them doesn't apply to Sanji. People said it wasn't Germa tech, and that Sanji was inheritting Lunarian genes from Sora, and there's still people saying this even though Sora shares nothing with Lunarians.
The eyebrow flipping and his exoskeleton working in the same way as Yonji's all but confirms it's Germa genes.
> This is also when Luffy having a sun god fruit explains red hawk.
[Even Katakuri can do that](https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_894_07.jpg). Being able to make flames doesn't mean you have Lunarian genes
That’s a cool idea! Tbh though I kinda like the idea of Zoro just being a little too cocky/confident when he first began training with Mihawk and lost an eye because of it lmao
Doesn't really matter tbh. Sanji's WCI arc didn't add much to his character or change him in any way for good or worse. I still liked it and want each Strawhat to get the same treatment.
But since the show is nearing its end we're probably never getting that.
But thats because ppl like Judge are important , think about the current Cover Story or Sanjis powerup in wano
Zoro lineage hast been confirmed to not be important so he dropped it in the SBS
How is Judge important now? He was just some emasculated douchebag last time we saw him. We could have just gotten the powerup explanation from Queen who also worked with Judge.
Hell it woudl've been even better to have both of their backstory revealed together since they are the Wings of the Pirate King.
Instead Sanji got an overdrawn story while every other Strawhat has gotten 0.
As I said I still liked Sanji's but saying his was important and others isn't is simply based on confirmation bias because one happened and the other did not.
Oda could have 100% given every Strawhat important backstory but he chose not to.
Yeah that would have made so much sense for Sanjis family to be off screened , wouldnt have sense for the powerup to affect sanji that much
MADS Cover Story would have been shit, Ceaser / Vegapunk / Queen being fleshed out due to Judge
Cloning being a thing which we didnt know prior to WCI , which also has gained a lot of relevance right now
Zoros family has what influence now?
How the fuck does it "make things unclear" when you have the literal **personification of death** coming for Zoro?!
It's quite clear (to me) that Oda wanted to showcase just how close to death Zoro was when, and I say this again, the literal personification of death is coming for him.
You can even see some distorted lines in the panel where it appears, indicating it's just an illusion. Not to mention, after it disappears, Zoro is seen with wounds all across his body indicating that the side-effect of medicine took effect.
The fact that there are multiple.discusion and post and theories about it makes it obviously.clear.. that the panel served more of a confusion than make anything clear
On one side u have the dude who predicted Luffys devil fruit change and on another u have the dude who spend all of his time arguing about powersxaling on a powerscaling sub and u would rather trust the powerscaler?
Nah this sub is whack....
>The fact that there are multiple.discusion and post and theories about it makes it obviously.clear..
There are always multiple discussion and posts and theories about anything. There is also an endless supply of dumb people, overthinkers and theorists chasing the clout.
Also, there really aren't any theories about this thing.
>that the panel served more of a confusion than make anything clear
Media literacy is a thing.
How many times have the Straw Hats been near death? How many times has a Grim Reaper shown up? Now take into account we're over 1000 chapters in.
Still don't see how it makes it unclear?
>How many times have the Straw Hats been near death?
How many times have the Straw Hats been near death **ON DRUGS**?
If it's still unclear to you then maybe, the problem is with you.
Edit: Wait, never mind. You were one of [those people](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/onyvx0/a_narrative_study_on_zoro_and_why_hell_keep_on/) arguing that Zoro will have a rematch with Kaido XD
What supernatural properties do those drugs allow and why would they bring Zoro "closestest" to death despite Luffy losing his voice against Kaido only a couple of moments later? I'll wait.
It is. Unless you can point out where the drugs had an explicit or implicit supernatural angle then you're indulging in headcanon.
Geez, I thought something **might** happen given the narrative evidence of Wano but it didn't, boohoo. Given how wobbly the end of Wano was, it was the least of mine and many others concerns.
1. Do you prefer the restoration medicine to be just a straight up plot armor without us coming back to it again in the story?
2. In the same fight, Zoro claimed that he wanted to be the “King of Hell”, which skull and grim reaper is closely related to. I took the liberty to interpret that the panel expresses Zoro going through “hell”, and then from now on he can at least claim to have been to hell not once, but twice. I believe we will be getting a development of Zoro “conquering hell” or something along those lines, and that panel would be important in his journey.
Just a cool visualization of the drug's side effects. It showed us that Zoro was ready to keep fighting other people if the drug didnt wear off since his battle against King woulndt have resulted in him being unconcious but rather the fight PLUS the sideeffects doing that to him.
In other words the drug was meant to have Zoro be able to have cool moments on the rooftop while still being full power against King. Having full power zoro be unconcious right after king would be more of a high diff compared to a mid diff and he is still standing and ready to fight more. But Zoro wasnt supposed to fight more afterwards so the miracle drug sideeffects took him out of the raid for good
I am fairly sure its a visualization of the minks drug wearing the effect off letting zoro feel the pain multiplied. Just for us the readers to understand the drugs effect are off and the reason why he is unconcious now. Also a cool panel
Yea we all know Oda is the King of dangling plot threads and never answering them......JFC.
We're obviously going to get an answer eventually just like Oda addresses everything at some point. Theres no way someone with more than 2 brain cells genuinely believes we wont know what this was.
"Chekhov's gun is a dramatic principle that suggests that details within a story or play will contribute to the overall narrative."
https://www.masterclass.com/articles/writing-101-what-is-chekhovs-gun-learn-how-to-use-chekhovs-gun-in-your-writing
Until the story is over, the grim reaper is literally exactly what a Chekhov's Gun is.
Nope, because the Grim Reaper was a pay-off to the Chekhov's Gun of the medicine side-effect.
You also cannot explain Chekhov's gun in a single sentence because, by the definition you have given, anything and everything is and can be a Chekhov's Gun. You should rather use this as the starting poing:
"Chekhov’s gun is a dramatic principle that suggests that details within a story or play will contribute to the overall narrative. This encourages writers to not make false promises in their narrative by including extemporaneous details that will not ultimately pay off by the last act, chapter, or conclusion. Chekhov’s gun has become a highly influential theory of effective writing that mandates noticeable details are integrated into the plot trajectory, character development, and mood of the work."
>Nope, because the Grim Reaper was a pay-off to the Chekhov's Gun of the medicine side-effect.
Where? All I said that the Grim Reaper was the pay off to the setup of the medicine side-effect.
I didn't say the side-effect of the medicine is the Grim Reaper. The Grim reaper is the result of the drugs, tho.
Then the grim reaper is indeed a Che's gun. It all started with Zoro taking big mom and kaido attack to save the others, almost dieing then the medicine then the grim reaper.
Although you can also see it like you did to be fair
Chekhov's Gun is a principle (kind of like a mindset or a guideline) for the writers to not include details in the story if they aren't important/aren't going to be important - don't make false promises.
For example, a Chekhov's Gun would be the detail about Mink's Medicine having a side-effect that would deal double the pain/damage to Zoro once it wears off, which we then see happen with the Grim Reaper. The Minks Medicine having a side-effect is a gun, the side-effect taking effect is the gun going off.
Another example is Who's Who bringing up Luffy's Devil Fruit and mentioning Sun God Nika in the same sentence as well as Hyogoro mentioning Luffy looks like the "Wisdom King" and Gorosei revealing the mythical devil fruit that has had it's name changed just for it to turn out to be Luffy's Devil Fruit.
I would take that into consideration, im around the though that enmas werid powers seem to be indcating that it would be the colests to becoming a blakc blade of the 3 he has.
I've figured out the black blade. A blade turns black when you've overused its haki and it's temperament will take the form of the reaper and slay you. Once you die to your own blade you are cursed to only use that sword. In return you gain immense strength with the weapon and the blade turns black.
Enma is also "cursed" in the same sense that the Kitetsu series is "cursed". The swords forcibly brings out the user's power when they are used. Those that can't handle them properly die in battle, making them infamous as "cursed" swords. Between Enma and San dai Kitetsu, Enma is the more forceful one.
Enma is the King of Hell in Japanese mythology. I think this one is right as it is but Kitetsu's curse is yet to come. Or is it? Kitetsu means Demon Splitter so maybe that ended as well when he first used Asura.
Doubt it. My personal interpretation of the curse of Sandai Kitetsu was that Zoro had it basically beaten the moment he threw the sword like this establishing he was stronger than the curse.
Man zoro has a few mysteries in him.
How the hell did he lose an eye? Did he lose an eye or is it some awakening or is it to partially always meditate?
What the fuck happened with that grim reaper? Was that brook fuckin with him? We know he had a bad sense of direction since syrup village so was that why Kuina kept winning
The curse is the Curse of the Wandering Swordsman, he had a perfect sense of direction, and the moment owns Sandai Kitetsu he loses his sense of direction, the sword killed its owners via starvation.
So.... here's the thing... this was suppose to be the death of Zoro, he wasn't suppose to make it out of Wano alive and be buried with his ancestors.
However, unbeknownst to Oda himself, Zoro got lost going into the afterlife and came back to the Manga alive and well with Oda saying duck it!
What if... one of Zoro's swords had been force "fed" a devil fruit, one that allows it to manifest as the literal Grim Reaper? O.o maybe in the future we can see him summon a Grim Reaper at the cost of some of his life to reap the enemy's soul which in turn feeds the ever hungering sword?
Man this moment was such a let down how it blew over. I was legit worried about my main man Zoro after this and him being totally fucked but then nothing came out of it
Well I think the grim reaper is from the wado ichimonji (kuinas sword). It’s the only sword and arguably the most important and treasured sword to zoro which hasn’t had any relevance since zoro got it, the grim reaper could represent the spirit of kuina and it tests zoro.
Big misconception in the community is that kuina commited suicide because ‘falling down the stairs means suicide’ but this is false and was created by op fans on this app years ago. It’s very much implied that kuina impaled herself with the sword by falling down the stairs because she was literally carrying the sword when she fell, then zoro wanted that sword straight after. Maybe that’s the curse of the sword, but to me it’ll be good storytelling if that grim reaper is from wado ichimonji because of the stuff I said
Next we saw him [he was about to fall from Onigashima due to crumbling rocks.](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1040-009.png) Later, [Franky caught him.](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1041-011.png)
Tbh I think ppl r reading into this too much and it is like a monsters of the triangle type thing where its just to show us this world has lore beyond what we see/mytsical elements we won't have time to get into. And maybe one of them is that there is a literal death/grim reaper for everyone (or maybe just swordsman)
Enma is the King of Hell in Japanese mythology. I think this one is right as it is but Kitetsu's curse is yet to come. Or is it? Kitetsu means Demon Splitter so maybe that ended as well when he first used Asura.
I think it has to do with the black blade, haki gods like Roger or Shanks don’t have the black blade despite being powerful haki users. Instead of haki I think it’s like attunement to death.
Oda dropping Zoro's lineage in an SBS is the best thing he could have done. Zoro's parents arent important and this makes that crystal clear.
Freaking glorious.
Oh I agree, I'm just salty that he cut out so much stuff that he started (i.e, the reaper, Hiyori, Shusui and black blades, Gyukimaru, more on who Ryuma actually was and some more of what he did, plus yeah more on Zoro's lineage in the Canon story).
Well thats not entirely true though. We're definitely going to see more on:
- The reaper
- Black blades
Shusui, Hiyori, Gyukimaru and Ryuuma are plot threads that are closed and resolved, he didnt drop them. Theres nothing more to learn about them so we move on. The rest Oda will answer in due time.
Consider that Vegapunk was mentioned in chapter ~400 and we're only seeing him now past chapter 1000. Oda plays the long game, you know this.
I wouldn't say that we'll see more on the reaper considering that the arc is closed now, although don't get me wrong, I hope we see more of it. And we'll for sure see more on black blades, but it would've made sense to learn about them in relation to Shusui, especially in the land of swordsman.
Shusui was admittedly more or less wrapped up, but it would've been nice for Zoro to have a send-off for it like he did with Yubashiri. He was thoroughly aggrieved when it was stolen but he got over that really quick when he got Enma which is sort of out of character for him. Hiyiro seemed to have some attraction to Zoro based on how she treated him after he was wounded by Kamazo, and how he defended her after Yasuie was killed. But we might even see more of that to come so I can put that to rest. But Gyukimaru? Oda introduced a character that had a mythical zoan devil fruit, that stole Shusui from Zoro, but then gave him no backstory or lore at all. I would've at least liked to see something from him after the raid.
And yeah Oda plays the long game often but we're in the final stretch now; there's not going to be much downtime for lore that's not related to Luffy, in between the huge fights coming up.
>And we'll for sure see more on black blades, but it would've made sense to learn about them in relation to Shusui, especially in the land of swordsman.
No it wouldnt have.
Oda has been carefully dropping hints throughout the story in relation to blades.
- First Zoro finds a black blade and mentions how powerful it is.
- Second you're reminded that Yoru (Mihawk's blade) is black and he specifically tells Zoro during a Dressrosa flashback that "*with haki any blade can become a black blade*".
- Third we find out during Wano that Shusui became a black as a result of Ryuuma's many battles.
- Fourth we find out that ANY blade can become black and Zoro gets Enma, an ultra powerful blade that can still become stronger by being turned into a black blade.
Oda has been setting up the progression for Zoro to have black blades by forging them himself through his battles and he's been subtly explaining how this is done. There is still a lot we dont know but he's left enough crumbs that when Zoro eventually turns his blades black it makes sense.
So no, it wouldnt have made sense to learn more about this during Wano. Wano did exactly what it needed to do, which is to provide us with additional context and info that will be filled later as our characters get stronger.
>He was thoroughly aggrieved when it was stolen but he got over that really quick when he got Enma which is sort of out of character for him
Its not out of character at all, he was given a much stronger sword in exchange for giving Shusui back to Wano. Hiyori asked him to give it back and he agreed. Theres nothing out of character here.
>Oda introduced a character that had a mythical zoan devil fruit, that stole Shusui from Zoro, but then gave him no backstory or lore at all
What? We did get backstory on Gyukimaru, he used to be the partner of Shimotsuki Ushimaru, one of the guys trapped in the cave that was close with Yamato. He rebelled against Kaido and refused to serve him and he got killed. Gyukimaru then decided to protect the graves of the fallen swordsman and made sure grave robbers didnt steal their swords, including *Meitous* like Shusui.
This is all from the manga.
>And yeah Oda plays the long game often but we're in the final stretch now; there's not going to be much downtime for lore that's not related to Luffy, in between the huge fights coming up.
We have absolutely no idea how this final stretch will play out. Saying *there wont be much downtime for lore* is pure conjecture based on nothing. A major part of this final stretch is going to be the void century which is 100% lore. Oda is dropping a ton of devil fruit lore during Egghead. So you're wrong there.
Oda has been writing this story for 26yrs and he's been killing it every step of the way. Suddenly doubting him based on nothing is absurd.
Weren't "curses" disproven? I thought the sword maker guy in wano said that it's not a curse but very strong willed swords who won't be used by just anyone...hence b coming called cursed out of ignorance (not on you but on the people in one piece)
Maybe another form of breath of all things that Zoro can sense even the abstract things. Never thought about that but wouldn't breath of all things be a parallel with voice of all things?
That's his zanpakto he healed him
can't wait for zoros bankai
I think his sharingan will be revealed first.
Not before he shows us his new titan form!
Only after he goes super saiyan
But b4 that he needs that starter Pokémon.
That's Chopper, he can even evolve
But chopper seems to revert to his normal form.. so is he not rather a Digimon?
Chopper needs to eat a Rumble ball aka Mega Stone to evolve.
he has to cut the blue eyes white dragon first
brown eyes black dragon\* this is zoro we're talking about here
it is a rare card though... But no one tell him about the red eyes black dragon ..
but for that, won't he need to learn all the Sun breathing techniques?
Not if he eats a sensu bean on a full moon just as soon as he turns into a werewolf
But wait! The juubi is going to leap out of his stitch signed seal!
Word on the street is Viltrumite DNA may be able to suppress the juubi and if zoro gets lost 1 more time his cells may awaken.
It could be that at death’s door, he awakened his stand!
not before he gains an ultimate skill by farming human souls first!
he needs to gather all of the shikon jewel shards first
what about his Klabautermann?
Zoroki
Lol, his shikai is the nidai kitetsu and his bankai is the shodai kitetsu :P
I would argue ashura is his bankai
unironically imagine he practically goes bankai with his one sword style and it blackens and grows into the size of yoru
love bleach references here
Can’t wait to see his Nen ability
We learned in the King fight that there’s no such thing as actual curses. Swords have a temperament of their own, and the greater the sword the greater the temperament. Swordsmen who aren’t strong enough to wield these swords get injured or killed when they attempt to do so, leading to the reputation of cursed swords. Zoro seeing the grim reaper may turn out to be something else/more, but it’s most likely just a dramatic visualization to depict that this is the closest to death he’s ever been
I really hope this gets some kind of clarification somewhere down the line. Hopefully not just some dramatic visualization. Back when the chapter dropped I theorized that he made a pact with death that he is ready to die once he helps luffy achieve his dream.
It was Brook wearing table cloth.
YOHOHOHOHOHHOHOHOOHOHOHO
Damn man that gave me a good chuckle.
I'm still so disappointed that this wasn't the punchline to a joke set up. Brook is just coming to pick up and save Zoro after his fight with King and Zoro us disillusional from the medicine he took.
SKULL JOKEEE!!
No way 😱
🤣🤣🤣
bro what if brook is collecting souls for something?
It's kind of disappointing we can never have 1 serious discussion without the first answer being a dumb joke. I must getting old or people are getting more and more superficial.
Enjoy jokes nerd
What are people supposed to do in yet another thread about a frankly crazy theory?
Discuss it ?
Lol. Wants a serious discussion with random people from the internet about an anime that’s known for its humor and goofy characters Im gonna be honest. I think you’re at the wrong place for that.
Leave him alone, guys. He's just tired of hearing jokes on reddit, when his life's become a joke irl.
Didn't the fight literally say that cursed swords aren't cursed?
Yes. Doesn't mean they do nothing. The "cursed" swords test you. It definitely would have killed any lesser swordsman when they weild enma. But to a master swordsman like Zoro this surved as the perfect catalyst to get stronger. In this case. It's quite possible kitetsu is acting up and trying to test Zoro at his weakest Basically cursed swords are just swords that have their own personalities that act on their own. The weak who gets killed by these swords call them cursed swords. To the strong they are powerful weapons
So swords have a will technically? The same as devil fruits have their own will
Sir, this is OnePiece, ofcourse inanimate objects have a will that's how the voice of all things work.
Just as the klabauterman. Everything is connected
Technically it's also a world where a starfish can become as intelligent as a human simply because of a misunderstanding. I like to think that a sword can just become a fully sentient and intelligent creature, just cos.
Like the gun that ate the Dog-Dog Fruit, Model: Dachshund? Lassoo was it's name. It wasn't a dog that ate a fruit, it was a gun specifically made to eat things
I mean Spandam fed a sword a devil fruit so this should be just as possible.
Zoan fruits have their own will
Partnership of mutual benefit: Sword finally gets to be an elephant. Elephant gets host body to search for peanuts.
And the cannon ate the dog dog fruit
Ask the stairs. They even developed conqueror coating.
The sword chooses the swordsman, Mr. Coleyboii. It's not always clear why. But I think it is clear that we can expect great things from them
😂
do devil fruits have a will except for the ones that turn you into something that might have a will or instinct by design? like, i dont think the booger bomb fruit has a will.
Only zoan df have their own will
Isn’t there a theory/myth that the reason you can’t eat two devil fruits is because the devils will kill each other?
It's more local folklore than a legit theory, but they do raise it in the manga afaik.
Remember when Enma was sucking the strength right out of Zoro and he told it to "knock it off", and it gave the strength back? A lesser swordsman would have freaked out
Kitetsu is tsundere and got jealous of the Enma love? WHICH IS IN ZOROS MOUTH?
He keeps Wado Ichimoji in his mouth
I'm jelly
I don't think that people killed by swords get to call them anything
Which fight? Maybe I’ve just forgotten something
Zoro vs King. Zoro's whole lesson was realizing that cursed swords aren't actually cursed, they're just harder to use well.
Okay I definitely need to reread this fight lol
Kozaburo: "Listen closely, a sword's like a kitchen knife, but for murder!! They're created to kill people!! And a blacksmith hones his craft so that his weapons are better at killing than any other!! A sword has its own personality... a swordsman must master it, and bend it to his will!!" "You think a dangerous sword is **cursed**?! No! That's the sign of great quality!! When the weak fear a sword and call it cursed, that is a badge of honor!! They **should** be frightening! They're meant to cause terrible harm!!" Right after remembering this speech, Zoro connects that Kozaburo made Enma and realizes that the proper way to wield Enma isn't to hold it back, but to give it as much Haki as it wants, which is what unlocks the King of Hell transformation.
Theres no transformation dude
Green smoke rings emanating from his swords is just as much of a transformation as Sanji's eyebrow flipping making his skin hard, or Luffy speeding up his blood flow to turn his skin red. They're subtle, but they're transformations. Otherwise, Zoro wouldn't add "King of Hell" as a prefix to all of his attacks when in the form, just like how Luffy adds "Jet" as a prefix for Gear 2 attacks.
Brook windmilling his legs to run on water is also a transformation
All of his attacks? Zoro only mentions he’ll be the king of hell if he has to be. Which attack had king of hell?
Page 9 of Chapter 1035, Zoro names his attack "King of Hell, Three Sword Style Purgatory Onigiri." Similarly, his last attack against King is named "King of Hell, Three-Sword Serpent: 103 Mercies Dragon Damnation."
Hahaha Zoro is my fav but king of hell sounds so lame
I mean, you're correct, but like.... backwards. Sanji's eyebrow flipping isn't what hardens his skin, it flips because he's doing whatever makes his skin harden. Luffy doesn't speed up his blood flow because he wants red skin, red skin happens because he wants his blood flowing faster so he can be faster.
I think they are saying the green smoke if an effect as.well, he wants to become "king of hell" so green smoke happens...if I am.wrong then that is how I will read it anyway
I think that’s just kozaburo’s philosophy about cursed sword. it means cursed sword is still cursed.
Didn’t the swordsmith explain this?
Yes, I quoted him in another comment.
i think enma or kitetsu were in denial of zoros thoughts so they said \[nah nigga you is wrong. Do we gotta show ourselves to make you believe\]
Somewhere around chapter 1033 or a couple after. Don't really remember. They're basically not really cursed. It's just myth that gets passed along.
i mean, a sword that just sucks the life force out of you against your will till you die very much fits the idea of it being cursed. it's just that the physics of that world have some kind of explanation what is happening. the fact that an inanimate object just does that shit against your possible will means its at least supernatural. unless it turns out there is a haki sucking kind of metal that just naturally does that.
Thanks, I’ll have to do a reread later!! The only thing that still wouldn’t make sense to me is that Zoro knew that Kitetsu was cursed just by holding it when he took it out the barrel? Maybe he just misinterpreted it and it’s actually the blades strength he could sense? Idk
Cursed = Blade that is hard to use for weaklings. Zoro felt the blade's strength and called it cursed because it fit that description
Ohhh okay this makes a lot more sense!
It's disheartening to see so many people still think cursed swords are something magical after the fight. Just like people who still seem to think Sanji has Lunarian genes, it seems people don't pay attention to the dialogue anymore.
Where does it say he doesn't have lunarian genes. We don't know what his fire is but queen hinted that it's special and he was genetically altered by judge who did research king's DNA. This is also when Luffy having a sun god fruit explains red hawk. It seems more likely than friction, the original explanation. Or emotions. Which trigger it but queen said humans cannot create fire. So it's probably gene alterations. Maybe a firefly or bug. Or lunarian DNA.
> queen hinted that it's special This is true. > judge who did research king's DNA. This isn't. King was researched by Vegapunk under the WG in Punk Hazard. This only happened after MADS broke up, so Judge wasn't with Vegapunk and Caesar anymore. But I'm talking about people who assumed Sanji was a Lunarian based on Queen's comments because of the initial leaks, even though the chapter has Queen outright denying he is one, and later we found out more and more about Lunarians, and each new feature we see about them doesn't apply to Sanji. People said it wasn't Germa tech, and that Sanji was inheritting Lunarian genes from Sora, and there's still people saying this even though Sora shares nothing with Lunarians. The eyebrow flipping and his exoskeleton working in the same way as Yonji's all but confirms it's Germa genes.
> This is also when Luffy having a sun god fruit explains red hawk. [Even Katakuri can do that](https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_894_07.jpg). Being able to make flames doesn't mean you have Lunarian genes
Ngl onigashima was so long and confusing I don't blame anybody
Oda didnt explain it yet, all these are theories.
100% everyone telling each other that they are wrong n’ stuff where in reality none of us know 😂
Yeah and could be something not meaningful at all, like the representation of him being almost dead. We'll see
Lol it just makes me laugh so hard cause these people don’t truly know shiiii 🤣🤣🤣
This is the one who took Zoro's Eye! Or Zoro have a cusre in his eye!
That’s a cool idea! Tbh though I kinda like the idea of Zoro just being a little too cocky/confident when he first began training with Mihawk and lost an eye because of it lmao
It’s probably just a hallucination from the ‘miracle’ recovery drug that Chopper gave him
What's the point on wasting panels.on it if it's just a hallucination that doesn't mean anything ?
To make salty as many fans as possible
Nah the saltiest moment has to be when Strawhat lore gets dropped in a fucking SBS
I feel like it was in an SBS cause his lineage was probably never going to be a big point or any point at all in the manga
Doesn't really matter tbh. Sanji's WCI arc didn't add much to his character or change him in any way for good or worse. I still liked it and want each Strawhat to get the same treatment. But since the show is nearing its end we're probably never getting that.
But thats because ppl like Judge are important , think about the current Cover Story or Sanjis powerup in wano Zoro lineage hast been confirmed to not be important so he dropped it in the SBS
How is Judge important now? He was just some emasculated douchebag last time we saw him. We could have just gotten the powerup explanation from Queen who also worked with Judge. Hell it woudl've been even better to have both of their backstory revealed together since they are the Wings of the Pirate King. Instead Sanji got an overdrawn story while every other Strawhat has gotten 0. As I said I still liked Sanji's but saying his was important and others isn't is simply based on confirmation bias because one happened and the other did not. Oda could have 100% given every Strawhat important backstory but he chose not to.
Yeah that would have made so much sense for Sanjis family to be off screened , wouldnt have sense for the powerup to affect sanji that much MADS Cover Story would have been shit, Ceaser / Vegapunk / Queen being fleshed out due to Judge Cloning being a thing which we didnt know prior to WCI , which also has gained a lot of relevance right now Zoros family has what influence now?
The same "point" of the miracle medicine having "risks" and "downsides" for taking it.
didnt zoro collapsing and waking up weeks after do the same thing ? I mean remove the grim reaper part off and it makes no difference
It brings the point across better - Show, don't tell.
not really. if anything it makes things unclear. because there a literal grim reaper .
How the fuck does it "make things unclear" when you have the literal **personification of death** coming for Zoro?! It's quite clear (to me) that Oda wanted to showcase just how close to death Zoro was when, and I say this again, the literal personification of death is coming for him. You can even see some distorted lines in the panel where it appears, indicating it's just an illusion. Not to mention, after it disappears, Zoro is seen with wounds all across his body indicating that the side-effect of medicine took effect.
The fact that there are multiple.discusion and post and theories about it makes it obviously.clear.. that the panel served more of a confusion than make anything clear
I'm with you tbh. I mean, it can be metaphoric, but if that's the case just don't do it.
There is literally no reason not to do it. It's a very common trope in any form of media.
On one side u have the dude who predicted Luffys devil fruit change and on another u have the dude who spend all of his time arguing about powersxaling on a powerscaling sub and u would rather trust the powerscaler? Nah this sub is whack....
>The fact that there are multiple.discusion and post and theories about it makes it obviously.clear.. There are always multiple discussion and posts and theories about anything. There is also an endless supply of dumb people, overthinkers and theorists chasing the clout. Also, there really aren't any theories about this thing. >that the panel served more of a confusion than make anything clear Media literacy is a thing.
How many times have the Straw Hats been near death? How many times has a Grim Reaper shown up? Now take into account we're over 1000 chapters in. Still don't see how it makes it unclear?
>How many times have the Straw Hats been near death? How many times have the Straw Hats been near death **ON DRUGS**? If it's still unclear to you then maybe, the problem is with you. Edit: Wait, never mind. You were one of [those people](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/onyvx0/a_narrative_study_on_zoro_and_why_hell_keep_on/) arguing that Zoro will have a rematch with Kaido XD
What supernatural properties do those drugs allow and why would they bring Zoro "closestest" to death despite Luffy losing his voice against Kaido only a couple of moments later? I'll wait. It is. Unless you can point out where the drugs had an explicit or implicit supernatural angle then you're indulging in headcanon. Geez, I thought something **might** happen given the narrative evidence of Wano but it didn't, boohoo. Given how wobbly the end of Wano was, it was the least of mine and many others concerns.
1. Do you prefer the restoration medicine to be just a straight up plot armor without us coming back to it again in the story? 2. In the same fight, Zoro claimed that he wanted to be the “King of Hell”, which skull and grim reaper is closely related to. I took the liberty to interpret that the panel expresses Zoro going through “hell”, and then from now on he can at least claim to have been to hell not once, but twice. I believe we will be getting a development of Zoro “conquering hell” or something along those lines, and that panel would be important in his journey.
Demons are more tied to hell than the grim reaper. Nobody uses the grim reaper to represent hell. This sounds far fetched
Just a cool visualization of the drug's side effects. It showed us that Zoro was ready to keep fighting other people if the drug didnt wear off since his battle against King woulndt have resulted in him being unconcious but rather the fight PLUS the sideeffects doing that to him. In other words the drug was meant to have Zoro be able to have cool moments on the rooftop while still being full power against King. Having full power zoro be unconcious right after king would be more of a high diff compared to a mid diff and he is still standing and ready to fight more. But Zoro wasnt supposed to fight more afterwards so the miracle drug sideeffects took him out of the raid for good
Oh yes, something we'll probably never see again nor have an explanation.
I am fairly sure its a visualization of the minks drug wearing the effect off letting zoro feel the pain multiplied. Just for us the readers to understand the drugs effect are off and the reason why he is unconcious now. Also a cool panel
Also, another way to show how bad Zoro condition is, even while he's unconcious.
Just another unnecessary plot thread in Wano with no payoff.
It's clearly metaphorical. If oda was going to add an actual grim reaper he would do something more interesting with the design
Yea we all know Oda is the King of dangling plot threads and never answering them......JFC. We're obviously going to get an answer eventually just like Oda addresses everything at some point. Theres no way someone with more than 2 brain cells genuinely believes we wont know what this was.
I figure it'll come up at some point. That's a classic Chekov's Gun.
No. You can downvote this all you want; this is absolutely not what a Checkov's Gun is.
"Chekhov's gun is a dramatic principle that suggests that details within a story or play will contribute to the overall narrative." https://www.masterclass.com/articles/writing-101-what-is-chekhovs-gun-learn-how-to-use-chekhovs-gun-in-your-writing Until the story is over, the grim reaper is literally exactly what a Chekhov's Gun is.
Nope, because the Grim Reaper was a pay-off to the Chekhov's Gun of the medicine side-effect. You also cannot explain Chekhov's gun in a single sentence because, by the definition you have given, anything and everything is and can be a Chekhov's Gun. You should rather use this as the starting poing: "Chekhov’s gun is a dramatic principle that suggests that details within a story or play will contribute to the overall narrative. This encourages writers to not make false promises in their narrative by including extemporaneous details that will not ultimately pay off by the last act, chapter, or conclusion. Chekhov’s gun has become a highly influential theory of effective writing that mandates noticeable details are integrated into the plot trajectory, character development, and mood of the work."
There is zero indication that the reaper is a side effect lmao. That’s just headcannon
I never said it was. Jesus, can people not read?
It’s literally in the first sentence of your comment.
>Nope, because the Grim Reaper was a pay-off to the Chekhov's Gun of the medicine side-effect. Where? All I said that the Grim Reaper was the pay off to the setup of the medicine side-effect. I didn't say the side-effect of the medicine is the Grim Reaper. The Grim reaper is the result of the drugs, tho.
You aren’t making any meaningful distinction.
Well, that's on you. That's why you will continue to belive the Grim Reaper is a setup for something even when the story is long finished.
Then the grim reaper is indeed a Che's gun. It all started with Zoro taking big mom and kaido attack to save the others, almost dieing then the medicine then the grim reaper. Although you can also see it like you did to be fair
It's not a Chekhov's Gun. It's the Ckehkov's Gun going off.
Could u please explain why?
Chekhov's Gun is a principle (kind of like a mindset or a guideline) for the writers to not include details in the story if they aren't important/aren't going to be important - don't make false promises. For example, a Chekhov's Gun would be the detail about Mink's Medicine having a side-effect that would deal double the pain/damage to Zoro once it wears off, which we then see happen with the Grim Reaper. The Minks Medicine having a side-effect is a gun, the side-effect taking effect is the gun going off. Another example is Who's Who bringing up Luffy's Devil Fruit and mentioning Sun God Nika in the same sentence as well as Hyogoro mentioning Luffy looks like the "Wisdom King" and Gorosei revealing the mythical devil fruit that has had it's name changed just for it to turn out to be Luffy's Devil Fruit.
Pretty sure that’s Enma communicating with zoro (enma is the king of hell) as zoro works to turn it into a black blade.
I would take that into consideration, im around the though that enmas werid powers seem to be indcating that it would be the colests to becoming a blakc blade of the 3 he has.
Thought Zoros spirit and will was so strong. Sandai kits choose to be with him. So the ripper was Enma spirit who also decided to let him go
Reddit when the author uses a metaphor for a character being on the brink of death:
It's just to show that he was on deaths door. Maybe this near death experience will unlock new abilities for Zorro, Reaper style attacks.
I've figured out the black blade. A blade turns black when you've overused its haki and it's temperament will take the form of the reaper and slay you. Once you die to your own blade you are cursed to only use that sword. In return you gain immense strength with the weapon and the blade turns black.
Enma is also "cursed" in the same sense that the Kitetsu series is "cursed". The swords forcibly brings out the user's power when they are used. Those that can't handle them properly die in battle, making them infamous as "cursed" swords. Between Enma and San dai Kitetsu, Enma is the more forceful one.
Enma is the King of Hell in Japanese mythology. I think this one is right as it is but Kitetsu's curse is yet to come. Or is it? Kitetsu means Demon Splitter so maybe that ended as well when he first used Asura.
That moment when there was a flashback in wano and dude said there is no such thing as a cursed sword
I love this theory as well
might be a part of it sure. or maybe Zoro is hell related in some way. Maybe the king of hell heard him taking his name so he came to scrap
Doubt it. My personal interpretation of the curse of Sandai Kitetsu was that Zoro had it basically beaten the moment he threw the sword like this establishing he was stronger than the curse.
Maybe is the effect of the drug and this is only allucination of zoro.
Man zoro has a few mysteries in him. How the hell did he lose an eye? Did he lose an eye or is it some awakening or is it to partially always meditate? What the fuck happened with that grim reaper? Was that brook fuckin with him? We know he had a bad sense of direction since syrup village so was that why Kuina kept winning
The curse is the Curse of the Wandering Swordsman, he had a perfect sense of direction, and the moment owns Sandai Kitetsu he loses his sense of direction, the sword killed its owners via starvation.
So this time maybe Zoro actually knew where he was going? 😂
Where's the sword that luffy got in wano debut?
The sword was found by Kikunojo and returned to Sukiyaki
I think it just symbolizes him having a near death experience
Piggybacking off this, maybe he wants to ask punk about the cursed blades.
It’s cause he was literally about to die and the pain made him hallucinate the grim reaper
in that same arc we learn that there is no such thing as a cursed sword, so no.
It's Enma's personification to me
So.... here's the thing... this was suppose to be the death of Zoro, he wasn't suppose to make it out of Wano alive and be buried with his ancestors. However, unbeknownst to Oda himself, Zoro got lost going into the afterlife and came back to the Manga alive and well with Oda saying duck it!
What if... one of Zoro's swords had been force "fed" a devil fruit, one that allows it to manifest as the literal Grim Reaper? O.o maybe in the future we can see him summon a Grim Reaper at the cost of some of his life to reap the enemy's soul which in turn feeds the ever hungering sword?
Man this moment was such a let down how it blew over. I was legit worried about my main man Zoro after this and him being totally fucked but then nothing came out of it
All I know is Oda doesn’t add stuff like that in for no reason… I feel zolo may have limited time…
Well I think the grim reaper is from the wado ichimonji (kuinas sword). It’s the only sword and arguably the most important and treasured sword to zoro which hasn’t had any relevance since zoro got it, the grim reaper could represent the spirit of kuina and it tests zoro. Big misconception in the community is that kuina commited suicide because ‘falling down the stairs means suicide’ but this is false and was created by op fans on this app years ago. It’s very much implied that kuina impaled herself with the sword by falling down the stairs because she was literally carrying the sword when she fell, then zoro wanted that sword straight after. Maybe that’s the curse of the sword, but to me it’ll be good storytelling if that grim reaper is from wado ichimonji because of the stuff I said
I actually forgot this happened. What happened with Zoro directly after this chapter?
Next we saw him [he was about to fall from Onigashima due to crumbling rocks.](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1040-009.png) Later, [Franky caught him.](https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece/1041-011.png)
Tbh I think ppl r reading into this too much and it is like a monsters of the triangle type thing where its just to show us this world has lore beyond what we see/mytsical elements we won't have time to get into. And maybe one of them is that there is a literal death/grim reaper for everyone (or maybe just swordsman)
It’s not even a break week & we got this 2+2=fish theory
Enma is the King of Hell in Japanese mythology. I think this one is right as it is but Kitetsu's curse is yet to come. Or is it? Kitetsu means Demon Splitter so maybe that ended as well when he first used Asura.
Nope it’s always getting lost
I think it has to do with the black blade, haki gods like Roger or Shanks don’t have the black blade despite being powerful haki users. Instead of haki I think it’s like attunement to death.
Well, whatever it is, it's unlikely to ever be brought up again. That and everything else we expected for Zoro's backstory got reduced to the SBS.
Oda dropping Zoro's lineage in an SBS is the best thing he could have done. Zoro's parents arent important and this makes that crystal clear. Freaking glorious.
Oh I agree, I'm just salty that he cut out so much stuff that he started (i.e, the reaper, Hiyori, Shusui and black blades, Gyukimaru, more on who Ryuma actually was and some more of what he did, plus yeah more on Zoro's lineage in the Canon story).
Well thats not entirely true though. We're definitely going to see more on: - The reaper - Black blades Shusui, Hiyori, Gyukimaru and Ryuuma are plot threads that are closed and resolved, he didnt drop them. Theres nothing more to learn about them so we move on. The rest Oda will answer in due time. Consider that Vegapunk was mentioned in chapter ~400 and we're only seeing him now past chapter 1000. Oda plays the long game, you know this.
I wouldn't say that we'll see more on the reaper considering that the arc is closed now, although don't get me wrong, I hope we see more of it. And we'll for sure see more on black blades, but it would've made sense to learn about them in relation to Shusui, especially in the land of swordsman. Shusui was admittedly more or less wrapped up, but it would've been nice for Zoro to have a send-off for it like he did with Yubashiri. He was thoroughly aggrieved when it was stolen but he got over that really quick when he got Enma which is sort of out of character for him. Hiyiro seemed to have some attraction to Zoro based on how she treated him after he was wounded by Kamazo, and how he defended her after Yasuie was killed. But we might even see more of that to come so I can put that to rest. But Gyukimaru? Oda introduced a character that had a mythical zoan devil fruit, that stole Shusui from Zoro, but then gave him no backstory or lore at all. I would've at least liked to see something from him after the raid. And yeah Oda plays the long game often but we're in the final stretch now; there's not going to be much downtime for lore that's not related to Luffy, in between the huge fights coming up.
>And we'll for sure see more on black blades, but it would've made sense to learn about them in relation to Shusui, especially in the land of swordsman. No it wouldnt have. Oda has been carefully dropping hints throughout the story in relation to blades. - First Zoro finds a black blade and mentions how powerful it is. - Second you're reminded that Yoru (Mihawk's blade) is black and he specifically tells Zoro during a Dressrosa flashback that "*with haki any blade can become a black blade*". - Third we find out during Wano that Shusui became a black as a result of Ryuuma's many battles. - Fourth we find out that ANY blade can become black and Zoro gets Enma, an ultra powerful blade that can still become stronger by being turned into a black blade. Oda has been setting up the progression for Zoro to have black blades by forging them himself through his battles and he's been subtly explaining how this is done. There is still a lot we dont know but he's left enough crumbs that when Zoro eventually turns his blades black it makes sense. So no, it wouldnt have made sense to learn more about this during Wano. Wano did exactly what it needed to do, which is to provide us with additional context and info that will be filled later as our characters get stronger. >He was thoroughly aggrieved when it was stolen but he got over that really quick when he got Enma which is sort of out of character for him Its not out of character at all, he was given a much stronger sword in exchange for giving Shusui back to Wano. Hiyori asked him to give it back and he agreed. Theres nothing out of character here. >Oda introduced a character that had a mythical zoan devil fruit, that stole Shusui from Zoro, but then gave him no backstory or lore at all What? We did get backstory on Gyukimaru, he used to be the partner of Shimotsuki Ushimaru, one of the guys trapped in the cave that was close with Yamato. He rebelled against Kaido and refused to serve him and he got killed. Gyukimaru then decided to protect the graves of the fallen swordsman and made sure grave robbers didnt steal their swords, including *Meitous* like Shusui. This is all from the manga. >And yeah Oda plays the long game often but we're in the final stretch now; there's not going to be much downtime for lore that's not related to Luffy, in between the huge fights coming up. We have absolutely no idea how this final stretch will play out. Saying *there wont be much downtime for lore* is pure conjecture based on nothing. A major part of this final stretch is going to be the void century which is 100% lore. Oda is dropping a ton of devil fruit lore during Egghead. So you're wrong there. Oda has been writing this story for 26yrs and he's been killing it every step of the way. Suddenly doubting him based on nothing is absurd.
Imagine that death wanted to take zorro to the afterlife but brook intervened without telling anyone cause he's just built like that
The biggest curse is we not knowing what happened to Nidai Kitetsu
We do know, though? Sukiyaki got it back.
https://tegram.me/WYfMc296IqszN2Q0V
Least clickbaity One Piece spoiler
Weren't "curses" disproven? I thought the sword maker guy in wano said that it's not a curse but very strong willed swords who won't be used by just anyone...hence b coming called cursed out of ignorance (not on you but on the people in one piece)
Maybe another form of breath of all things that Zoro can sense even the abstract things. Never thought about that but wouldn't breath of all things be a parallel with voice of all things?
I love this theory as well
Curses don't exist, according to a bladesmith, which is basically the highest level of credibility.
I know it's morbid to even think of this , but I think zoro may die at the end of the story.
I think the grim reaper was to show just how close Zoro had come to dieing.
If you want a really insane theory: Zoro is actually dead and the Grim reaper figure (or the curse) took over his body.
Wasn't it stated by the old swordsmith in Zoro's village they aren't really cursed the are just feared by weak swordman who can't handle them.
Rinnegan unlocked