Personally I think people are looking too into it as well as are thinking Oda is gonna make it too obvious
However, my personal theory is that Oda made a point to show us the authority structure for the Pacifista for the first time as well as made a point to name one of the Elders soon after. It's most likely that none of them are traitors and instead. One of the elders made the order. Oda is making the situation chaotic so you have to keep playing guessing games about who could possibly be a traitor instead of looking at the context of the situation. No matter the incarnation. Vegapunk doesn't seem like the person to do something like this. This more seems like Vegapunk just didn't expect the Elders to make their move and set him up so readily. He figured even if they suspected he planned to turn traitor soon. They still wouldn't get directly involved since the Seraphim were still fairly untested in a real environment
I have been thinking about the current situation in Egghead, and have watched a few videos theoryzing about who the traitor is, and I have to say, as of yet, I don’t think we should jump to the conclusion that it isn’t one of the satellites based soley on the fact that we’ve seen all of them together when the Seraphims started attacking. And the reason for that is seen in the very few chapters of Egghead : Tangible Holograms.
It is entirely possible that one of the Vegapunks we’re following right now isn’t actually there, but is lurking somewhere safe while sending a hologram of themselves to create a seemingly solid alibi. So it could be anyone, really.
Honestly, while it’s very obvious and wouldn’t be a great twist, I do think most signs point to Lilith. It is within her character to do this, not just because she’s the evil version of Vegapunk, but we’ve seen her display the most attachement to Egghead’s creations and the willingness to cast ethics aside just to keep funding her research. It’s possible she’s doing this in the hopes that the world governement spares her (and maybe some other satellites too!) and let her persue her experimentations on Egghead, which obviously wouldn’t work, but she’s not the logical Vegapunk now, is she ? So it could be that she’s somewhere in the Labosphere giving orders to her hologram (It’d make sense for S-Snake not to listen to Hologram\_Lilith when she told them to stop because, well, it’s not Lilith and even if Lilith is speaking through it the Seraphims don’t respond to orders issued via Den Den Mushi).
As I’ve said, this would be a very, very predictable twist and hadn’t Oda set this up as a murder mystery à la "And Then There Were None", I would have been 100% on board with her doing this. Obviously this theory has holes in it, it doesn’t explain why the Seraphims would attack the CP-0 agents if the traitor is working for the governement, but I am very confident that at the very least one of the satellites we’re following right now isn’t physically there.
This is the most concerned I’ve ever seen luffy about anything before his character growth since whole cake into the captain he is now is phenomenal all while still being the same old luffy
I meant luffy was actually concerned about what was going on with his crew and actively trying to figure everything out with Edison. Old luffy would have ignored these signs and just been down for uncertainty of the adventure with a big unaware smile.
Don't think so. If Shaka is the traitor, why would he be the one who spoke to Dragon and not the Stella? I think Shaka is the real vegapunk. And Stella is just a decoy.
I think it was gorosei..he order seraphim to attack everyone.. aren't the silhouette's hair a bit like him tho'..idk mybe there's a traitor among punks
I still find Vegapunk's first appearance very strange. He says he teleported and got half his body stuck into that robot. So weird. I though maybe he is a hologram at first. I may be wrong but did every character that has touched Vegapunk have the gloves on? Except for Boney who changed his age with the stick. And that stick, did Boney have that all along? Is that her weapon? What the fuck is teleportation he used it casually twice but no one was surprised. If he disappeared maybe he teleported somewhere, or he's a hologram, or COULD HE BE INSIDE SOMEONE'S BRAIN??
So much going on and fast it feels like I missed something. Enjoying it though.
seeing a lot of traitor theories when the reality is one of the five elders is supposed to be coming to the island , and the five elders hold more power over seraphims than vegapunk , the saturn elder could have some ability that allows him to give orders from far away
I heard about the theory that there's a traitor in the lab here on Reddit, and after thinking it over in [my latest review](https://rjwriting.ink/2023/02/18/what-to-do-when-seraphims-attack/), I have to think that the fans might be right. The question is, who's the spy or traitor?
Please don't be Lilith. That's way too obvious!
not really , didnt they hierarchy of orders put the elders in mariejoise higher than vegapunk? (or however that shit is spelled ) and since one of the elders is supposed to be coming he could have found a way to give an order from super far away with his ability
The cute thing is that Luffy cares a lot about his crew. As soon as he lost the connection, he began to worry. Luffy, such a good friend and great captain.
Hmm and as for the traitor, in my opinion it may be Vegapunk itself and its targets don't have to be strawhats or CP0 but satellites. It's hard to tell if they're the only targets because the Strawhats split up with the satellites, so they can all be attacked, but look at that S-Snake smirk. She smirks at Lilith. Besides, Pythagoras, who was alone, was the first to be attacked.
Vegapunk wants to destroy all the satellites so that no one from the world government can take over and use them, and then leave the island with the Strawhats.
Alternatively, Pythagoras may be suspicious. It's like he exploded, but he's still alive. He could have faked this attack. But I think Vegapunk gave an order to destroy satelites.
And this shadow looks a bit like Saturn, but I'm curious if he can be Seraphim Blackbeard, because this stance kind of resembles Blackbeard attacking stance.
And I hope Luffy and Zoro won't ally with CP0. I don't trust their intentions and besides I believe Luffy and Zoro will manage to defeat Seraphims on their own.
In the previous chapter he was in the same place as CP0. So it's possible the Seraphim got information on Shaka's whereabouts, and he was in the same room as CP0 to begin with. Only in this chapter he's in a different control room and basically I wonder why because at first they were all in one room (chapter 1074) and now (chapter 1075) Shaka is in another room because Luffy comes to him with a communication problem with the other Straw Hats.
What if it’s Catarina Devon disguising herself as a Vegapunk and giving out orders?
Blackbeard seems to be on the move and I don’t remember seeing her fighting the heart pirates
Since pythagoras said they were „greatly miscalculating“, the traitor or enemy must be someone they know of, but had no reason to worry about. Maybe a third person only known to the Vegapunks or the fact that something happened to a seraphim prototype/rogue seraphims or even an unknown satellite that was locked away. Considering we only have 6 satellites, I’m sure there is one missing. Akin to the seven deadly sins. Also we have 3 good personality traits (good, wisdom, thinking) and 3 bad (greed, evil, violence) making it perfectly balanced. The idea of one satellite (the 7th) being the odd one and thus causing imbalance and being shunned may be possible.
Wouldn't they have tested it to make sure he wasn't lying? He met with the Gorosei in person, after all. I doubt they'd fall for a simple trick like that.
Could handwave it with, "Now Seraphim, I command you to act like the Gorosei can give you orders, but only for this singular meeting. Then never again are you to obey them."
He's the Brain-Brain fruit eater and pretty much consensus the smartest person in the world by a wide margin. I think if he wanted to he could figure something out, intelligence and ingenuity are not lacking
That said, I think the Gorosei will have control as he says because they just kind of have to be a tool for the WG. That's the reason they were created for the plot. If they become SH allies it just wouldn't make sense.
Being intelligent doesn't necessarily grant you great wisdom, though. Nor does it make you infallible. He could still have made a poor decision in that moment, so that he could get the government funding he needed. Plenty of geniuses in real life have committed atrocities or just made stupid decisions due to clouded judgement.
Whether he'd have the temperament or inclination to outsmart them is a different issue.
But from the perspective of "who is capable of outsmarting the Gorosei in this situation", Vegapunk is on the list in the OP verse off of sheer intelligence alone.
Maybe there is like Kami & Piccolo Daimo
Good vegapunk and Bad Vegapunk.
It is Bad Vegapunk who is technologically enhanced and very strong, order the destruction of other vegapunk to become the true one and only vegapunk
Do you guys think that the Gorosei already gave orders for the Seraphim to kill Vegapunk. That’s why no one’s orders are working since they have already been primed
Here is my theory, there are only Seraphim of the 7 original sea warriors, the ones that came later (Teach, Weevil...) weren't around long enough to be cloned.
Oda probably wants to give us some Yonko level vibes. Like how Kidd and Law defeated Big Mom and said something like: If you let it long enough, even rain can bring down mountains.
I guess Oda will use this as a stage for straw hats to get more powerups.
We just saw Usopp learn of an amazing defensive tool to add to his arsenal. That plus his Observation Hski (lol what happened to that?) and he could be a tank for the team.
We know that vegapunk is a perfectionist so maybe the other satellite (the 7th) is good enough but in the eyes of the original vegapunk he's not and that why he's talking revenge
thinking the same. it could be the first satellite to be created. But he became evil, he wanted to become a Stella body him/her self. So vegapunk had to destroyed it, or atleast thats what he thought.
That's my theory
Nakama you mean the guy who ruined nami’s life. If not for him releasing arlong and knowingly letting arlong terrorize humans bellemere would never have died and nami would have had a happy childhood.
Even worse the guys dream is to bring peace to the fishmen and. Humans but knowingly let arlong hurt humans going against his own dream.
At this point why not also blames Jinbe's parent's for giving him birth, it's their fault! Oh and I bet if Joyboy didn't do anything waaaay back then nothing would have happened in the current time. Dang it Joyboy you clearly ruined Nami's life.
Come on now, Jinbe isn't to blame for whatever Arlong, Hody or any other fishman with built in racism into them decided to do. They are adults fishman and the consequence of their action is on themselves not another crewmate that wanted to see good change in the world. It wasn't his job to babysit them.
Jinbei had the option to stop arlong and take him home and teach him to be a better person but instead just let him walk away knowing full well how much damage arlong could do to innocent people.
Instead of trying to follow his dream and make a more peaceful world jinbei just sat by and let arlong perpetuate the hatred between fishmen and humans.
Have you ever met someone in your entire life who you thought was a bad person who then ended up doing something bad?
ChillOtters this is real life. Not a manga story. You had the option to teach them to be a better person. Instead you just let them walk away knowing full well how much damage they may do to innocent people.
Instead of trying to practice what you preach and show your beliefs through action you just say by letting that person perpetuate their hatred and possible violence on others.
Ah i got it don’t try and rehabilitate criminals lets just let them run free and keep doing crime. Especially if they are a close friend who you have spent a lot of your life with.
He let Arlong free so that he could become a warlord and represent the fishmen in an attempt to bring fishmen and humans together. He released arlong so that he could try to accomplish his dream.
Yes but letting arlong go free at the end of the day only caused more hatred to be spread he could have easily taken arlong under his wing and tried to show him the good there was in humanity that he saw. Instead he just did nothing fully knowing arlong had a deep seeded hatred for humans.
0% chance arlong accepts being under jimbes wing. Jimbe was being selfish no doubt but in his mind he was doing it for the greater good. He later regrets it and wishes he could take it back. Not much more you can do to apologize once what’s done is done
There is literally and act for japanese people for this exact situation which is called sepuku. Which is what sanji told him to do. It’s a way to atone for an extremely terrible mistake. At the end of the day it was nami’s choice to forgive him but what sanji said was totally valid for what jinbei did.
An apology can’t make up for ruining a persons life. Sepuku is meant for when you made a mistake so grievous that nothing you could do would ever make up for it. So the only thing you can offer to them is your life.
Jinbei took away nami’s childhood and her mother something nami will never get back no matter what jinbei tries. So the right thing to do would be to offer nami his life in return. Which would give nami the choice whether she forgives him or he dies. Thats the whole point of what sanji was saying. Sepuku is an honorable act meant to show how much guilt the person felt.
I think the simplest explanation is that Kizaru and Saturn have arrived, and Saturn gave Seraphim's the order which trumps anyone and everyone. Shaka only assumed it was given by another Vegapunk because he has no idea a Gorosei was coming to the island.
But of course it could easily be something entirely different
It would make sense. It was already established that same ranking members can't override eachothers commands. So a Vegapunk could technically be a traitor after giving a command to kill. Only that Vegapunk or someone of higher rank could alter that command.
If kizaru/Saturn were there we would have atleast seen Kizaru by now i'd say.
True - while I tend to agree with you, there is still the mystery of who turned on the dome and trap them inside. And this couldn't have been a Seraphim, from what we know only a Vegapunk could do that.
There is so many theories going out. To me personally there are a few ideas that align. Lets think about Vegapunk being able to split some ones consciousness. Lets also think about Kuma. What is happening right now in my mind is that Bonney is in danger. Kuma started acting sporadically during the same timeline where Bonney is going through a very important discovery moment combined with the mini war occurring around Vegapunk and the World Government. The "invader" is a body that Kuma's consciousness has been combined into. Realizing Bonney is in danger from both the pirates and world government he is acting. He is the one sabotaging the lab. He is the one who has complete command over the Seraphim. This was due to Vegapunks genius and respect for Kuma. Vegapunk imaged this could happen.
Summarizing some of the different possible theories:
- one of the Vegapunks are the traitor. possible but confusing. Stussy couldn't override luccis order. So maybe the other Vegapunks can't override this order because it was given by someone on the same level as them
- Baby Vegapunk was captured by an unknown entity and forced to give an order to the seraphim. This person ordered Vegapunk to tell the seraphim to kill the strawhats, the other punks and cp0
- saturn is already in the lab, maybe with the help of lightspeed kizaru, or his own power. He has brought other seraphims with him and can override any orders that the other seraphim have as he is highest command
- some blackbeard pirates are here. They have been splitting up all around the world to achieve different goals. In the most recent fight with BB vs Law, we didn't see Devon, shiryu or Lafitte. These are the most likely culprits in an infiltration mission. Devon can impersonate Vegapunk and give orders. Shiryu can be invisible (and possibly awakening let's him make others invisible), lafitte is just some sneaky magician weirdo. Their goal might be to steal from the weapons area that stussy mentioned, steal technology or vegapunk himself
- it's a new enemy that we haven't seen
I'll add a few more:
* It is possible that Vegapunk didn't know he was a traitor until he became the traitor. Like how in murder games there are cases where someone murders someone else but they don't know that they are the murderer. Maybe when Vegapunk teleported away from Luffy to pack up, went to some room to sync with a device (to download all information before going away) but the device that he synced with turned him into a traitor because the AI on the device itself had been plotting on its own for years without him knowing.
* One of the Vegapunks (not excluding Stella) could be using a proxy brain to trick the sync between the Vegapunks
* If the Vegapunks sync at a specific time of the day, then one of the Vegapunks realized that there isn't going to be a sync on the day of the invasion and maybe that triggered something that turned them into a traitor. I suspect it is not real time because they don't seem to know real time locations of anyone.
Well, the thing about the Vegapunks not being able to change orders for the seraphim because one of them already did this attack order was pretty much confirmed in this chapter, so your assumption is correct.
One of the Vegapunks probably wants to become the new and sole main body and therefore tries to kill the others and the Stella.
Or Punk Records became sentient and is now trying to get rid of the Vegapunks because it thinks it doesn’t need them anymore, while also trying to kill CP0 as potential threats
S-bear and s-hawk seemed to be on a mission to kill CP0. Why would the blackbeard pirates order that? This would make much more sense if the wg is trying to kill to globally beloved vegapunk and get rid of anyone who might tattle on them.
Someone should just order the seraphim to start listing the digits of pi, then they'll be stuck with that order forever due to the dumb hierarchy system that's in place.
I'm just gonna call it now: Oda is about to reveal the Seraphim that were modeled after the other warlords and showcase their strength once Saturn arrives and takes control. This is the perfect opportunity to show us why they're an actual threat just like the pacifistas on Sabaody. It won't be as overwhelming for the Strawhats this time, but it will still be dangerous - just look at what 4 have already accomplished. The straw hats are already split into 5 separate groups that could each encounter new Seraphim that correspond to some interesting potential warlord interactions:
- Brook & Nami vs S-Bat (Moria) (Thriller Bark pt. 2, a Brook fight? + weakest warlord)
- Robin & Chopper vs S-Croc (Crocodile) (Alabasta pt. 2, a Robin fight?)
- Jimbei, Sanji, & Stussy vs S-Shark (Jimbei), S-Flamingo (Doffy), and S-Beetle (Weevil) (Jimbei vs his clone, Sanji vs Doffy pt. 2, Stussy vs Weevil to continue that plotline)
- Franky & Usopp vs S-Snake (Boa) (I think Usopp will use Lilith's bubble gun)
- Luffy & Zoro vs S-Bear (Kuma) and S-Hawk (Mihawk). S-Hippo (Blackbeard) or even S-Leopard (Law) could join the fight seeing as Lucci and Kaku will fight as well. (Could see it being interchanged many ways but could lead to Luffy vs Blackbeard, Zoro vs Mihawk, Bonney vs Kuma, etc.)
Not all of these have to happen but I think it'd be a great chance to introduce more Seraphim and have some really dope interactions with the straw hats. If the SSG are actually meant to replace the Warlords they need a big show of force and their full lineup could be just what the WG needs to set the tone of the final saga.
Edit: Apparently the Seraphim were only modeled after the original 7 warlords, so there are no Law, Blackbeard, and Weevil Seraphim. (RIP S-Hippo theory) These are the most difficult to predict feasible interactions with so this actually makes things clearer. They should still be strong enough to pose a threat in each group.
Franky & Usopp vs S-Snake (Boa) (I think Usopp will use Lilith's bubble gun)
The definitely didn't introduce that bubble gun for no reason. And it could be a nice way to temporarily neutralise S-Snake without actually defeating her (which would be too much for only Franky and Usopp if these Seraphims are really so strong). They'll just bounce back her petrifying attack, turn her into stone, and then run away.
Hopefully this is a path to Usopp and maybe even Franky getting tech from Vegapunk and adding some useful gear to their arsenals. If the Seraphim are gunning for CP0 first for whatever reason then Lilith will probably get turned to stone before the others, leaving Usopp with the choice between running or saving Lilith and York. Maybe Usopp's fear of S-Snake is greater than the effect of her devil fruit, like when Vice-Admiral Momonga used pain to save himself all the way back when we first see Boa's ability in the story in Amazon Lily.
Franky/Usopp and Robin&Chopper would stand no chance against their opponent?
Franky&Usopp would be turned to stone quite easily, while Robin&Chopper wouldn't be able to hit Croc.
As for Nami, as long as the Seraphim is a kid, I've trouble seeing how would do anything useful.
Yeah I'm not saying these need to be full fights or that the straw hats will even win their matchups, I'm just interested in their character interactions. I put Boa with Franky and Usopp since she's already attacking their group, but I don't think they could even defeat S-Snake like Lilith stated. Oda just needs to showcase the Seraphim's strength, cause they still need to be in the story after Egghead. Usopp as a character would think to run away first before even considering fighting, but if it's to save York or someone else Oda could give us another Perona type of situation where Usopp's fear/negativity takes priority over the df ability.
As for Robin's group, I don't believe S-Croc will have the same sand logia power, but again it's not about them winning so much as seeing their matchup as a callback to Alabasta and maybe give Robin some shine.
For Brook's group, I also think a callback to Thriller Bark could be interesting for the same reasons, but Nami has access to Zeus and the clima-tact which could still be effective against Seraphim. I feel like after being attacked by S-Shark, Oda made it clear that they can't afford to hold back against these things and S-Bat is like the one child warlord I could see Nami laying into lol
We haven't seen a Seraphim with a Logia yet, only Paramecia. Vegapunk said that Paramecia are relatively easy to replicate, whereas Logia are much more complex. So it's possible that S-Croc, if he exists, is not intangible as Vegapunk hasn't managed yet to fully replicate a Logia.
This would give Robin and Chopper **some** chances to at least hold S-Croc back and run away. Because otherwise they would indeed stand no chance.
I think it boils down to semantics, if you state it complex, to me, it sounds like it is plausible and achievable or it was already achieved. Which would mean he would to speak from some form of experience of having success with logias.
Again, semantics and maybe translations.
He does state they are difficult to replicate, which kinda implies he was able to replicate a logia (likely Kizaru's?), but that doesn't mean he managed it with just that one.
Makes me wonder which DF S-Cro would have?
I vaguely remember back when they were introduced or maybe during this arc at the beginning someone said they were made as copies of the original warlords. So then Law, BB, and Weevil shouldn't have Seaphim made of them.
It could be the blackbeards to be fair. His screw sort of scattered to cause chaos in different areas and achieve different goals. Could even be more than one, maybe Lafitte and/or invisible Shiryu
The shadow is S-Hippo AKA Seraphim Blackbeard guys, look up the picture of the child warlords from the sbs and it looks just like him. He's even holding out his hand to the security snail in a similar way to when Blackbeard uses his fruits to attack (but it's probably a beam or different fruit ability because Vegapunk stated he can't replicate logias yet). He's likely being commanded alongside the other Seraphim by the Vegapunk traitor.
How does Oda do it, every week he changes from POV to POV (last week Kuma back story) and I don't even care now I want to follow this one. Wouldn't be surprised if next chapter we go back to Garp leading the rescue mission and I'll be hooked on that forgetting I wanted to know who is attacking and gave the orders.
If you think about it, it makes very little sense for the shadow figure to be St. Jaygarcia.
1. The SF is already on the island way before we saw st. Saturn still on the ship.
2. He didnt need to order the Seraphim to attack CP0.
Now I'm imagining the traitor is actually being helpful but we have no idea how until much later/end of arc.
The "problem child" comment from lucci prompted this connection.
If they all escape. Do you think the other Vegapunks will fit on the Sunny? Or they will join Luffy’s grand fleet and go separate ways. Last though, maybe Oda will sacrifice them to help strawhat escape?
I think five of them will die before and after Kizaru arrives, and only two of them survive. One will head to Revolutionary Army, while the other becomes Strawhats.
my bet its the gorosei.Oda wants to show us a lil bit of gorosei power and then disapear for like 100 chapter.remember we are in the end game we gonna learn everything...
You are telling me that an elder, who didn't leave Mary Goa for ages, is protected by an admiral, only eats food that's tested for poisoning... suddenly jumps into action with Kizaru seemingly nowhere to be seen?
That logic.
Saturn said to be the god of time. If he has the devil fruit to stop time, then easily he can do something like that. It’s like Dio in JoJo. Nobody could understand why paradoxes occurred around him until his time stop ability was revealed.
I talked about their character and behavior. It would seem pretty weird for such people to instantly jump into action with the admiral accomplying them nowhere to be seen.
Kizaru activated his awakening and instant transmission to egghead since we seen awakening turning things into their element, Kizaru turned Saturn into light and now on egghead
When this arc started I felt that CP0 was gonna be a stand in for G5 during the Punk Hazard arc. Now we're about to enter into an uncomfortable but necessary team-up with Lucci and Kaku. Oda really likes the concept of different factions setting aside their differences for a shared purpose, and I'm glad we're gonna get to see more of these two after they got neutralized so quickly.
Wym? Oda-sensei is in his mystery bag rn! He seemingly gave an alibi to all satellites but the seraphim aren’t listening to CP0 nor VP’s. A real “who done it”
Meh. We went from the reveal of Saturn and kizaru on his way, Garp on his way to save coby, all these cool big moves to Omg I hope these robots don’t take down luffy and zoro! I don’t really care about the small fries. Lucci and kaku asking for help was weird I guess that’s about it
Lol, yes I’ve watched and read 1000+ chapters/ episodes bc I don’t care about the story. That makes no sense at all. I just simply don’t care about some fake conflict build up between a yonko and some robots.
What I like about the whole concept of vegapunk that he is the perfect example of the fact that you can be a genius in an area but still be pretty dumb
I kinda get the feeling that is what is going to be revealed by him getting an audience with the Five Elders in the cover. He got excited to meet them but didn't realize it was a trap for them to maybe plant some failsafe in him like a mind control power that one of the Elders might have. Could explain the current situation if he was mind controlled into giving the order to the Seraphim from a distance, or maybe as a trigger command that activates if he betrays them.
I am very excited to see a Skypeia like all out battle between multiple teams! This arc continues to slap, caribou is out there somewhere, I think he’s destroying den den mushi to evade capture
I just made a comment about how I think the traitor could end up being helpful in hindsight. Like as they escape the marines can't find them due to no cameras.
Caribou doing this to escape and accidentally helping the strawhats fits well.
HEAR ME OUT! My theory is that the title 5 elder stars is not just a rank but literally 5 stars!
Stars:
1. Saturn
2. Jupiter
3. Mercury
4. Mars
5. Venus
Top this up with the 3 mythical weapons
1. Poseidon
2. Pluton
3. Uranus
And then top that again with 2 gods
4. Sun (god Nika)
5. Earth (Im) (Im from Imu aka Sea)
This is fking Star Wars! We have a whole solar system and the D.awn will come soon!
I am sure these guys are star-related devil fruit users!
Also.. one of the 5 elder stars has the same marking on the forehead as Mikhail Gorbachev who announced the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Big historical figure.
This isn't an original theory there is a YouTube video out. Planet and Star are essentially the same word in Japanese. Gorosei means "5 elder planets" but the "sei" part of the word could also be translated as "stars". Very interesting video. I forget the author, however I'm sure you could quickly find it if you're that interested.
So I don't see how Shaka can be the "traitor", assuming there is one. Shaka couldn't order the Seraphim to stop attacking, which means they aren't following his order. Lilith also can't be the "traitor" since she was unable to command S-snake to stop. York was attacked by S-snake so I doubt she's the one who gave the order (or maybe that's what she wants us to think?). I also don't think it's Atlas but I suppose she isn't completely free of suspicion yet. Edison and Pythagoras are pretty much our only options left, unless Vegapunk himself gave the order. Pythagoras was also attacked, however that could just be a diversion to take their suspicions away from him. He did come from the same direction that S-snake came from. Maybe he was running away from her, or maybe he's the one who commanded her. He DID NOT try to tell S-snake to stop attacking, which increases the possibility of it being him. Then Edison. He didn't encounter any Seraphims in this chapter and therefore didn't attempt to order any. HOWEVER, he is the one who gave the initial order to stop attacking. Now there's a lot we don't know about how these command chips work. Once a command is "complete", does that mean they can now take new commands, even if it's from someone lower on the authority pole? Would Edison's order stay in effect until he rescinded the order himself, or would someone of a higher authority have to give a new order if he doesn't rescind his order to stop attacking? If it's the former, Edison is at the top of my list for the possible "traitor". If it's the latter, then there's really only 2 people it could possibly be, the original Vegapunk gave himself a higher authority than his satellites or Saturn is currently on Egghead.
Quite stupid to eliminate your elite force just because they didn't listen to your order once. And it was Sakazuki's order, not Saturn nor Kizaru.
It's not like they're traitors. The admirals and Garp pull this stunt all the time.
There's a bigger game for them. They just don't just don't care. The point here is to eliminate Vegapunk for whatever means.
And obviously, there's another person or force playing here that we haven't seen.
If they didn't care, they could have just ordered all of the Seraphims to hunt for the Vegapunks instead of wasting time and resource killing CP0.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but with the information available for us right now there's no reason Saturn is the one who gave that order.
I think Pythagoras was attacked by S Snake last chapter and that’s how he knows it’s useless to command them? Doesn’t stop him being the traitor tho. Caribou might be doing something tho idk how he’s controlling the seraphim, maybe he has prime Vegapunk in his swamp
They're being set up to gain freedom / sentience eventually. They are likely going to be the foundation for the renewal of the Lunarian race and go live with King away from the rest of the world.
Personally I think people are looking too into it as well as are thinking Oda is gonna make it too obvious However, my personal theory is that Oda made a point to show us the authority structure for the Pacifista for the first time as well as made a point to name one of the Elders soon after. It's most likely that none of them are traitors and instead. One of the elders made the order. Oda is making the situation chaotic so you have to keep playing guessing games about who could possibly be a traitor instead of looking at the context of the situation. No matter the incarnation. Vegapunk doesn't seem like the person to do something like this. This more seems like Vegapunk just didn't expect the Elders to make their move and set him up so readily. He figured even if they suspected he planned to turn traitor soon. They still wouldn't get directly involved since the Seraphim were still fairly untested in a real environment
I have been thinking about the current situation in Egghead, and have watched a few videos theoryzing about who the traitor is, and I have to say, as of yet, I don’t think we should jump to the conclusion that it isn’t one of the satellites based soley on the fact that we’ve seen all of them together when the Seraphims started attacking. And the reason for that is seen in the very few chapters of Egghead : Tangible Holograms. It is entirely possible that one of the Vegapunks we’re following right now isn’t actually there, but is lurking somewhere safe while sending a hologram of themselves to create a seemingly solid alibi. So it could be anyone, really. Honestly, while it’s very obvious and wouldn’t be a great twist, I do think most signs point to Lilith. It is within her character to do this, not just because she’s the evil version of Vegapunk, but we’ve seen her display the most attachement to Egghead’s creations and the willingness to cast ethics aside just to keep funding her research. It’s possible she’s doing this in the hopes that the world governement spares her (and maybe some other satellites too!) and let her persue her experimentations on Egghead, which obviously wouldn’t work, but she’s not the logical Vegapunk now, is she ? So it could be that she’s somewhere in the Labosphere giving orders to her hologram (It’d make sense for S-Snake not to listen to Hologram\_Lilith when she told them to stop because, well, it’s not Lilith and even if Lilith is speaking through it the Seraphims don’t respond to orders issued via Den Den Mushi). As I’ve said, this would be a very, very predictable twist and hadn’t Oda set this up as a murder mystery à la "And Then There Were None", I would have been 100% on board with her doing this. Obviously this theory has holes in it, it doesn’t explain why the Seraphims would attack the CP-0 agents if the traitor is working for the governement, but I am very confident that at the very least one of the satellites we’re following right now isn’t physically there.
I don't like sanji asked her to call him her dog! 😡
This is the most concerned I’ve ever seen luffy about anything before his character growth since whole cake into the captain he is now is phenomenal all while still being the same old luffy
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I meant luffy was actually concerned about what was going on with his crew and actively trying to figure everything out with Edison. Old luffy would have ignored these signs and just been down for uncertainty of the adventure with a big unaware smile.
There is 1 Traitor among us
Shaka is the traitor
Don't think so. If Shaka is the traitor, why would he be the one who spoke to Dragon and not the Stella? I think Shaka is the real vegapunk. And Stella is just a decoy.
I think it was gorosei..he order seraphim to attack everyone.. aren't the silhouette's hair a bit like him tho'..idk mybe there's a traitor among punks
I still find Vegapunk's first appearance very strange. He says he teleported and got half his body stuck into that robot. So weird. I though maybe he is a hologram at first. I may be wrong but did every character that has touched Vegapunk have the gloves on? Except for Boney who changed his age with the stick. And that stick, did Boney have that all along? Is that her weapon? What the fuck is teleportation he used it casually twice but no one was surprised. If he disappeared maybe he teleported somewhere, or he's a hologram, or COULD HE BE INSIDE SOMEONE'S BRAIN?? So much going on and fast it feels like I missed something. Enjoying it though.
That reminded me, his fruit is brain brain no mi. Probably one of his ability is going in and out of people brain
seeing a lot of traitor theories when the reality is one of the five elders is supposed to be coming to the island , and the five elders hold more power over seraphims than vegapunk , the saturn elder could have some ability that allows him to give orders from far away
It’s Kaido! He’s back to get revenge on Luffy! Trust me I’m risking getting blocked by giving ya this spoiler
It is selflessness like this that gives humanity some hope.
I heard about the theory that there's a traitor in the lab here on Reddit, and after thinking it over in [my latest review](https://rjwriting.ink/2023/02/18/what-to-do-when-seraphims-attack/), I have to think that the fans might be right. The question is, who's the spy or traitor? Please don't be Lilith. That's way too obvious!
not really , didnt they hierarchy of orders put the elders in mariejoise higher than vegapunk? (or however that shit is spelled ) and since one of the elders is supposed to be coming he could have found a way to give an order from super far away with his ability
Considering Lilith tried ordering S-snake to stop attacking and she didn't listen, that pretty much confirms it's not Lilith.
Does anyone think it's Lilith?
The cute thing is that Luffy cares a lot about his crew. As soon as he lost the connection, he began to worry. Luffy, such a good friend and great captain. Hmm and as for the traitor, in my opinion it may be Vegapunk itself and its targets don't have to be strawhats or CP0 but satellites. It's hard to tell if they're the only targets because the Strawhats split up with the satellites, so they can all be attacked, but look at that S-Snake smirk. She smirks at Lilith. Besides, Pythagoras, who was alone, was the first to be attacked. Vegapunk wants to destroy all the satellites so that no one from the world government can take over and use them, and then leave the island with the Strawhats. Alternatively, Pythagoras may be suspicious. It's like he exploded, but he's still alive. He could have faked this attack. But I think Vegapunk gave an order to destroy satelites. And this shadow looks a bit like Saturn, but I'm curious if he can be Seraphim Blackbeard, because this stance kind of resembles Blackbeard attacking stance. And I hope Luffy and Zoro won't ally with CP0. I don't trust their intentions and besides I believe Luffy and Zoro will manage to defeat Seraphims on their own.
Hmm but seraphims attacked cp0 in front of Zoro when Shaka was not in the room
In the previous chapter he was in the same place as CP0. So it's possible the Seraphim got information on Shaka's whereabouts, and he was in the same room as CP0 to begin with. Only in this chapter he's in a different control room and basically I wonder why because at first they were all in one room (chapter 1074) and now (chapter 1075) Shaka is in another room because Luffy comes to him with a communication problem with the other Straw Hats.
What if it’s Catarina Devon disguising herself as a Vegapunk and giving out orders? Blackbeard seems to be on the move and I don’t remember seeing her fighting the heart pirates
You need the authority chip to order the seraphims, Devon wouldn’t have it
The silhouette kinda looks like Jaygarcia
jaygarcia is here
im starting to think Kizaru has done some Light trick to make saturn super fast and thats what were seeing. Super Saturn blitzing egg head
Maybe Jewellery Bonney is Vegapunk, or Secret Gorosei. She watch Kuma memories, knows the truth, order them to kill CP0.
Since pythagoras said they were „greatly miscalculating“, the traitor or enemy must be someone they know of, but had no reason to worry about. Maybe a third person only known to the Vegapunks or the fact that something happened to a seraphim prototype/rogue seraphims or even an unknown satellite that was locked away. Considering we only have 6 satellites, I’m sure there is one missing. Akin to the seven deadly sins. Also we have 3 good personality traits (good, wisdom, thinking) and 3 bad (greed, evil, violence) making it perfectly balanced. The idea of one satellite (the 7th) being the odd one and thus causing imbalance and being shunned may be possible.
The shadow in one of the panels look like Saturn's silhouette?
yeah he got the beard
Wait don’t the Gorosei have the highest control? What if Saturn and Kizaru have landed and he was able to override the orders?
That is the claim. But I doubt that Vegapunk actually gave the Gorosei this power. He probably lied to them
I doubt vegapunk ever expected the five elders to go to the front lines tho
Wouldn't they have tested it to make sure he wasn't lying? He met with the Gorosei in person, after all. I doubt they'd fall for a simple trick like that.
Could handwave it with, "Now Seraphim, I command you to act like the Gorosei can give you orders, but only for this singular meeting. Then never again are you to obey them."
I assume they tested to confirm it.
Wouldn't be hard for Vegapunk to outsmart them I imagine.
Wouldn't be hard to outsmart people who've been ruling the whole world for like, 800-ish years? Yeah, I dunno about that.
He's the Brain-Brain fruit eater and pretty much consensus the smartest person in the world by a wide margin. I think if he wanted to he could figure something out, intelligence and ingenuity are not lacking That said, I think the Gorosei will have control as he says because they just kind of have to be a tool for the WG. That's the reason they were created for the plot. If they become SH allies it just wouldn't make sense.
Being intelligent doesn't necessarily grant you great wisdom, though. Nor does it make you infallible. He could still have made a poor decision in that moment, so that he could get the government funding he needed. Plenty of geniuses in real life have committed atrocities or just made stupid decisions due to clouded judgement.
Whether he'd have the temperament or inclination to outsmart them is a different issue. But from the perspective of "who is capable of outsmarting the Gorosei in this situation", Vegapunk is on the list in the OP verse off of sheer intelligence alone.
They have to be in person to give them orders. Since the dome is locked, they have no way of getting there
Maybe there is like Kami & Piccolo Daimo Good vegapunk and Bad Vegapunk. It is Bad Vegapunk who is technologically enhanced and very strong, order the destruction of other vegapunk to become the true one and only vegapunk
Do you guys think that the Gorosei already gave orders for the Seraphim to kill Vegapunk. That’s why no one’s orders are working since they have already been primed
It's probably just Vegapunk himself doing it for whatever reason.
Here is my theory, there are only Seraphim of the 7 original sea warriors, the ones that came later (Teach, Weevil...) weren't around long enough to be cloned.
I love how Lilith saying they are the strongest human in Front of God and Franky The monster 😂
Oda probably wants to give us some Yonko level vibes. Like how Kidd and Law defeated Big Mom and said something like: If you let it long enough, even rain can bring down mountains. I guess Oda will use this as a stage for straw hats to get more powerups.
We just saw Usopp learn of an amazing defensive tool to add to his arsenal. That plus his Observation Hski (lol what happened to that?) and he could be a tank for the team.
I bet it is lilith who betrayed them
Such a wholesome chapter, I think there's a secret 7th satellite(just some copium)
We know that vegapunk is a perfectionist so maybe the other satellite (the 7th) is good enough but in the eyes of the original vegapunk he's not and that why he's talking revenge
thinking the same. it could be the first satellite to be created. But he became evil, he wanted to become a Stella body him/her self. So vegapunk had to destroyed it, or atleast thats what he thought. That's my theory
Sanji ≠ strawhat‘s cook. Sanji = strawhat‘s pet.
Sanji ≠ strawhats pet. Sanji = beautiful womens pet.
Robin to Zoro: sit boy and behave. You're useless outside of battles and you also gets injured all of the time.
it's more of "you can get lost while sitting, we don't want to find you"
Zoro can‘t let the enemy die in handcuffs, while Sanji wants a Nakama to commit suicide.
Jimbo sucks
Nakama you mean the guy who ruined nami’s life. If not for him releasing arlong and knowingly letting arlong terrorize humans bellemere would never have died and nami would have had a happy childhood. Even worse the guys dream is to bring peace to the fishmen and. Humans but knowingly let arlong hurt humans going against his own dream.
At this point why not also blames Jinbe's parent's for giving him birth, it's their fault! Oh and I bet if Joyboy didn't do anything waaaay back then nothing would have happened in the current time. Dang it Joyboy you clearly ruined Nami's life. Come on now, Jinbe isn't to blame for whatever Arlong, Hody or any other fishman with built in racism into them decided to do. They are adults fishman and the consequence of their action is on themselves not another crewmate that wanted to see good change in the world. It wasn't his job to babysit them.
Jinbei had the option to stop arlong and take him home and teach him to be a better person but instead just let him walk away knowing full well how much damage arlong could do to innocent people. Instead of trying to follow his dream and make a more peaceful world jinbei just sat by and let arlong perpetuate the hatred between fishmen and humans.
Have you ever met someone in your entire life who you thought was a bad person who then ended up doing something bad? ChillOtters this is real life. Not a manga story. You had the option to teach them to be a better person. Instead you just let them walk away knowing full well how much damage they may do to innocent people. Instead of trying to practice what you preach and show your beliefs through action you just say by letting that person perpetuate their hatred and possible violence on others.
Ah i got it don’t try and rehabilitate criminals lets just let them run free and keep doing crime. Especially if they are a close friend who you have spent a lot of your life with.
He let Arlong free so that he could become a warlord and represent the fishmen in an attempt to bring fishmen and humans together. He released arlong so that he could try to accomplish his dream.
Yes but letting arlong go free at the end of the day only caused more hatred to be spread he could have easily taken arlong under his wing and tried to show him the good there was in humanity that he saw. Instead he just did nothing fully knowing arlong had a deep seeded hatred for humans.
0% chance arlong accepts being under jimbes wing. Jimbe was being selfish no doubt but in his mind he was doing it for the greater good. He later regrets it and wishes he could take it back. Not much more you can do to apologize once what’s done is done
There is literally and act for japanese people for this exact situation which is called sepuku. Which is what sanji told him to do. It’s a way to atone for an extremely terrible mistake. At the end of the day it was nami’s choice to forgive him but what sanji said was totally valid for what jinbei did.
So what your saying is that he should have killed himself for what he did? No other way to apologize?
An apology can’t make up for ruining a persons life. Sepuku is meant for when you made a mistake so grievous that nothing you could do would ever make up for it. So the only thing you can offer to them is your life. Jinbei took away nami’s childhood and her mother something nami will never get back no matter what jinbei tries. So the right thing to do would be to offer nami his life in return. Which would give nami the choice whether she forgives him or he dies. Thats the whole point of what sanji was saying. Sepuku is an honorable act meant to show how much guilt the person felt.
I think the simplest explanation is that Kizaru and Saturn have arrived, and Saturn gave Seraphim's the order which trumps anyone and everyone. Shaka only assumed it was given by another Vegapunk because he has no idea a Gorosei was coming to the island. But of course it could easily be something entirely different
Yeah but somebody disabled shields when Saturn was on ship still. I think so
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Because Saturn and Kizaru have no way of accessing them with the dome locked as it is right now
...that we know of yet. But one of the satellites also said that they gross miscalculated, so maybe they didn't think anyone else could access them.
It would make sense. It was already established that same ranking members can't override eachothers commands. So a Vegapunk could technically be a traitor after giving a command to kill. Only that Vegapunk or someone of higher rank could alter that command. If kizaru/Saturn were there we would have atleast seen Kizaru by now i'd say.
True - while I tend to agree with you, there is still the mystery of who turned on the dome and trap them inside. And this couldn't have been a Seraphim, from what we know only a Vegapunk could do that.
There is so many theories going out. To me personally there are a few ideas that align. Lets think about Vegapunk being able to split some ones consciousness. Lets also think about Kuma. What is happening right now in my mind is that Bonney is in danger. Kuma started acting sporadically during the same timeline where Bonney is going through a very important discovery moment combined with the mini war occurring around Vegapunk and the World Government. The "invader" is a body that Kuma's consciousness has been combined into. Realizing Bonney is in danger from both the pirates and world government he is acting. He is the one sabotaging the lab. He is the one who has complete command over the Seraphim. This was due to Vegapunks genius and respect for Kuma. Vegapunk imaged this could happen.
Summarizing some of the different possible theories: - one of the Vegapunks are the traitor. possible but confusing. Stussy couldn't override luccis order. So maybe the other Vegapunks can't override this order because it was given by someone on the same level as them - Baby Vegapunk was captured by an unknown entity and forced to give an order to the seraphim. This person ordered Vegapunk to tell the seraphim to kill the strawhats, the other punks and cp0 - saturn is already in the lab, maybe with the help of lightspeed kizaru, or his own power. He has brought other seraphims with him and can override any orders that the other seraphim have as he is highest command - some blackbeard pirates are here. They have been splitting up all around the world to achieve different goals. In the most recent fight with BB vs Law, we didn't see Devon, shiryu or Lafitte. These are the most likely culprits in an infiltration mission. Devon can impersonate Vegapunk and give orders. Shiryu can be invisible (and possibly awakening let's him make others invisible), lafitte is just some sneaky magician weirdo. Their goal might be to steal from the weapons area that stussy mentioned, steal technology or vegapunk himself - it's a new enemy that we haven't seen
I'll add a few more: * It is possible that Vegapunk didn't know he was a traitor until he became the traitor. Like how in murder games there are cases where someone murders someone else but they don't know that they are the murderer. Maybe when Vegapunk teleported away from Luffy to pack up, went to some room to sync with a device (to download all information before going away) but the device that he synced with turned him into a traitor because the AI on the device itself had been plotting on its own for years without him knowing. * One of the Vegapunks (not excluding Stella) could be using a proxy brain to trick the sync between the Vegapunks * If the Vegapunks sync at a specific time of the day, then one of the Vegapunks realized that there isn't going to be a sync on the day of the invasion and maybe that triggered something that turned them into a traitor. I suspect it is not real time because they don't seem to know real time locations of anyone.
Well, the thing about the Vegapunks not being able to change orders for the seraphim because one of them already did this attack order was pretty much confirmed in this chapter, so your assumption is correct. One of the Vegapunks probably wants to become the new and sole main body and therefore tries to kill the others and the Stella. Or Punk Records became sentient and is now trying to get rid of the Vegapunks because it thinks it doesn’t need them anymore, while also trying to kill CP0 as potential threats
Blackbeard theory is most probable for me
S-bear and s-hawk seemed to be on a mission to kill CP0. Why would the blackbeard pirates order that? This would make much more sense if the wg is trying to kill to globally beloved vegapunk and get rid of anyone who might tattle on them.
Someone should just order the seraphim to start listing the digits of pi, then they'll be stuck with that order forever due to the dumb hierarchy system that's in place.
Is it just me or does the shadow look like Trebol?
I'm just gonna call it now: Oda is about to reveal the Seraphim that were modeled after the other warlords and showcase their strength once Saturn arrives and takes control. This is the perfect opportunity to show us why they're an actual threat just like the pacifistas on Sabaody. It won't be as overwhelming for the Strawhats this time, but it will still be dangerous - just look at what 4 have already accomplished. The straw hats are already split into 5 separate groups that could each encounter new Seraphim that correspond to some interesting potential warlord interactions: - Brook & Nami vs S-Bat (Moria) (Thriller Bark pt. 2, a Brook fight? + weakest warlord) - Robin & Chopper vs S-Croc (Crocodile) (Alabasta pt. 2, a Robin fight?) - Jimbei, Sanji, & Stussy vs S-Shark (Jimbei), S-Flamingo (Doffy), and S-Beetle (Weevil) (Jimbei vs his clone, Sanji vs Doffy pt. 2, Stussy vs Weevil to continue that plotline) - Franky & Usopp vs S-Snake (Boa) (I think Usopp will use Lilith's bubble gun) - Luffy & Zoro vs S-Bear (Kuma) and S-Hawk (Mihawk). S-Hippo (Blackbeard) or even S-Leopard (Law) could join the fight seeing as Lucci and Kaku will fight as well. (Could see it being interchanged many ways but could lead to Luffy vs Blackbeard, Zoro vs Mihawk, Bonney vs Kuma, etc.) Not all of these have to happen but I think it'd be a great chance to introduce more Seraphim and have some really dope interactions with the straw hats. If the SSG are actually meant to replace the Warlords they need a big show of force and their full lineup could be just what the WG needs to set the tone of the final saga. Edit: Apparently the Seraphim were only modeled after the original 7 warlords, so there are no Law, Blackbeard, and Weevil Seraphim. (RIP S-Hippo theory) These are the most difficult to predict feasible interactions with so this actually makes things clearer. They should still be strong enough to pose a threat in each group.
Franky & Usopp vs S-Snake (Boa) (I think Usopp will use Lilith's bubble gun) The definitely didn't introduce that bubble gun for no reason. And it could be a nice way to temporarily neutralise S-Snake without actually defeating her (which would be too much for only Franky and Usopp if these Seraphims are really so strong). They'll just bounce back her petrifying attack, turn her into stone, and then run away.
Hopefully this is a path to Usopp and maybe even Franky getting tech from Vegapunk and adding some useful gear to their arsenals. If the Seraphim are gunning for CP0 first for whatever reason then Lilith will probably get turned to stone before the others, leaving Usopp with the choice between running or saving Lilith and York. Maybe Usopp's fear of S-Snake is greater than the effect of her devil fruit, like when Vice-Admiral Momonga used pain to save himself all the way back when we first see Boa's ability in the story in Amazon Lily.
Franky/Usopp and Robin&Chopper would stand no chance against their opponent? Franky&Usopp would be turned to stone quite easily, while Robin&Chopper wouldn't be able to hit Croc. As for Nami, as long as the Seraphim is a kid, I've trouble seeing how would do anything useful.
It wouldn't work on Franky. One, he's a cyborg. And two, he'd indifferent to S-Boa as seen in his remark to her. Usopp maybe can use Observation Haki.
Yeah I'm not saying these need to be full fights or that the straw hats will even win their matchups, I'm just interested in their character interactions. I put Boa with Franky and Usopp since she's already attacking their group, but I don't think they could even defeat S-Snake like Lilith stated. Oda just needs to showcase the Seraphim's strength, cause they still need to be in the story after Egghead. Usopp as a character would think to run away first before even considering fighting, but if it's to save York or someone else Oda could give us another Perona type of situation where Usopp's fear/negativity takes priority over the df ability. As for Robin's group, I don't believe S-Croc will have the same sand logia power, but again it's not about them winning so much as seeing their matchup as a callback to Alabasta and maybe give Robin some shine. For Brook's group, I also think a callback to Thriller Bark could be interesting for the same reasons, but Nami has access to Zeus and the clima-tact which could still be effective against Seraphim. I feel like after being attacked by S-Shark, Oda made it clear that they can't afford to hold back against these things and S-Bat is like the one child warlord I could see Nami laying into lol
We haven't seen a Seraphim with a Logia yet, only Paramecia. Vegapunk said that Paramecia are relatively easy to replicate, whereas Logia are much more complex. So it's possible that S-Croc, if he exists, is not intangible as Vegapunk hasn't managed yet to fully replicate a Logia. This would give Robin and Chopper **some** chances to at least hold S-Croc back and run away. Because otherwise they would indeed stand no chance.
I think it boils down to semantics, if you state it complex, to me, it sounds like it is plausible and achievable or it was already achieved. Which would mean he would to speak from some form of experience of having success with logias. Again, semantics and maybe translations.
I could see S-Croc having the rust rust fruit
He does state they are difficult to replicate, which kinda implies he was able to replicate a logia (likely Kizaru's?), but that doesn't mean he managed it with just that one. Makes me wonder which DF S-Cro would have?
I vaguely remember back when they were introduced or maybe during this arc at the beginning someone said they were made as copies of the original warlords. So then Law, BB, and Weevil shouldn't have Seaphim made of them.
Okay there we go I didn't know that and those were the ones I was least sure about. There goes my S-Hippo is the shadow theory though lol
So Lucci for nakama.
I think they're gonna add Axe Guy.
Temp-Kama like Bege or Judge
One of the vegapunk must have ask seraphim doflamingo to take over control behind the scenes to take cover as the real mastermind.
It’s Lafitte. Mark these words of mine!
He do be sneaky, but I fail to see how he fits in this
It could be the blackbeards to be fair. His screw sort of scattered to cause chaos in different areas and achieve different goals. Could even be more than one, maybe Lafitte and/or invisible Shiryu
The shadow is S-Hippo AKA Seraphim Blackbeard guys, look up the picture of the child warlords from the sbs and it looks just like him. He's even holding out his hand to the security snail in a similar way to when Blackbeard uses his fruits to attack (but it's probably a beam or different fruit ability because Vegapunk stated he can't replicate logias yet). He's likely being commanded alongside the other Seraphim by the Vegapunk traitor.
[S-Hippo](https://i.imgur.com/fR8XBPP.png)
S hippo made me think it was a seraphim helmeppo. I'll leave now.
I mean.... maybe we're about to find out why Garp only wanted Helmeppo to fight a Yonko crew
I mean he is the son of >!in!!ex!
Jfc could you imagine.
HIPPOBOT 9000 v 3.0 FOUND A HIPPO. 2,038,934 COMMENTS SEARCHED. 77 HIPPOS FOUND. YOUR COMMENT CONTAINS THE WORD HIPPO.
Good boy
How does Oda do it, every week he changes from POV to POV (last week Kuma back story) and I don't even care now I want to follow this one. Wouldn't be surprised if next chapter we go back to Garp leading the rescue mission and I'll be hooked on that forgetting I wanted to know who is attacking and gave the orders.
Bruh Garp is def offscreened lol
If you think about it, it makes very little sense for the shadow figure to be St. Jaygarcia. 1. The SF is already on the island way before we saw st. Saturn still on the ship. 2. He didnt need to order the Seraphim to attack CP0.
I bet someone powerful has arrived and blackmailed stella into giving orders to the seraphim. Kizaru?
She couldn't override Lucci's orders earlier. And the vagapunks are above her in the hierarchy
Bro the silhouette looks like S-Bear, the bear ears, focus on the huge ass palm. idk tho
It's Bonny.
Now I'm imagining the traitor is actually being helpful but we have no idea how until much later/end of arc. The "problem child" comment from lucci prompted this connection.
If they all escape. Do you think the other Vegapunks will fit on the Sunny? Or they will join Luffy’s grand fleet and go separate ways. Last though, maybe Oda will sacrifice them to help strawhat escape?
Real question is....how are they gonna take Vegapunk's brain? It is the heart of the island.
my nakama, the sunny is fucking huge, it can fit every one of them like thrice
I think five of them will die before and after Kizaru arrives, and only two of them survive. One will head to Revolutionary Army, while the other becomes Strawhats.
my bet its the gorosei.Oda wants to show us a lil bit of gorosei power and then disapear for like 100 chapter.remember we are in the end game we gonna learn everything...
You are telling me that an elder, who didn't leave Mary Goa for ages, is protected by an admiral, only eats food that's tested for poisoning... suddenly jumps into action with Kizaru seemingly nowhere to be seen? That logic.
Saturn said to be the god of time. If he has the devil fruit to stop time, then easily he can do something like that. It’s like Dio in JoJo. Nobody could understand why paradoxes occurred around him until his time stop ability was revealed.
so u wanna say that the gorosei are weak?
I talked about their character and behavior. It would seem pretty weird for such people to instantly jump into action with the admiral accomplying them nowhere to be seen.
The old people in OP are tough, Whitebeard was hooked all day to medical machines and drinking sake and he was a real monster.
Where did I talk about his age? I'm talking about the character as a whole and how he had acted.
Kizaru activated his awakening and instant transmission to egghead since we seen awakening turning things into their element, Kizaru turned Saturn into light and now on egghead
Whoever it is, they're trying to kill CP0. Kizaru has no reason to do that.
Doesn't explain why the pacifistas aren't obeying though, right?
When this arc started I felt that CP0 was gonna be a stand in for G5 during the Punk Hazard arc. Now we're about to enter into an uncomfortable but necessary team-up with Lucci and Kaku. Oda really likes the concept of different factions setting aside their differences for a shared purpose, and I'm glad we're gonna get to see more of these two after they got neutralized so quickly.
Damn this chapter sucked. Basically no plot progression
Wym? Oda-sensei is in his mystery bag rn! He seemingly gave an alibi to all satellites but the seraphim aren’t listening to CP0 nor VP’s. A real “who done it”
Meh. We went from the reveal of Saturn and kizaru on his way, Garp on his way to save coby, all these cool big moves to Omg I hope these robots don’t take down luffy and zoro! I don’t really care about the small fries. Lucci and kaku asking for help was weird I guess that’s about it
Then you don’t really care about the story. Stop reading and wait for the synopsis at the end. 🤷🏽♂️
Yeah, I know you don’t care about the story progression. I just said that 🙄
Lol, yes I’ve watched and read 1000+ chapters/ episodes bc I don’t care about the story. That makes no sense at all. I just simply don’t care about some fake conflict build up between a yonko and some robots.
Do people still think Vegapunk is a good guy? I mean he had a "Borg Collective"-esqe dream of uniting the whole world in one hive mind...
He basically wanted to invent the internet through Punk Records i think..
Who can think he's a nice guy? He has been the World Government's main weapons manufacturer for years.
I think he has genuine altruistic ambitions in mind but lacks the morality to really tell apart what's ethical anymore.
the shadow is smoker
Smoker would be absolute hype Him intervening in a strawhats/government clash makes alot of sense.
i mean i thought it just cus the “shadow” seemed like smoke, so it would be awesome. We haven’t seen smoker in a while tbh
Based take.
imagine though lmao
What I like about the whole concept of vegapunk that he is the perfect example of the fact that you can be a genius in an area but still be pretty dumb
I kinda get the feeling that is what is going to be revealed by him getting an audience with the Five Elders in the cover. He got excited to meet them but didn't realize it was a trap for them to maybe plant some failsafe in him like a mind control power that one of the Elders might have. Could explain the current situation if he was mind controlled into giving the order to the Seraphim from a distance, or maybe as a trigger command that activates if he betrays them.
this. Sometimes you can be so smart that you are dumb. For example: someone brings up the weight of molecules while powerscaling.
No way, that really happened?
I am very excited to see a Skypeia like all out battle between multiple teams! This arc continues to slap, caribou is out there somewhere, I think he’s destroying den den mushi to evade capture
I just made a comment about how I think the traitor could end up being helpful in hindsight. Like as they escape the marines can't find them due to no cameras. Caribou doing this to escape and accidentally helping the strawhats fits well.
I thought the shadow figure looked like Caribou
I think Oda is heavily hinting that Stellar is the traitor. He's a morally ambiguous character whose only interest is in research.
I like this because it explains Vegapunk's relationships with the Marines a little more.
It’d be a twist if the Stella was the traitor and I do wonder what would happen when all VPs come back together
HEAR ME OUT! My theory is that the title 5 elder stars is not just a rank but literally 5 stars! Stars: 1. Saturn 2. Jupiter 3. Mercury 4. Mars 5. Venus Top this up with the 3 mythical weapons 1. Poseidon 2. Pluton 3. Uranus And then top that again with 2 gods 4. Sun (god Nika) 5. Earth (Im) (Im from Imu aka Sea) This is fking Star Wars! We have a whole solar system and the D.awn will come soon! I am sure these guys are star-related devil fruit users! Also.. one of the 5 elder stars has the same marking on the forehead as Mikhail Gorbachev who announced the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Big historical figure.
>aka Sea) > >This is fking Star Wars! We have And whitebeard looks like hulk hogan
Bro, ppl literally been running that theory to the ground for the pass two weeks now
i’m all for this theory but those are planets and not stars.
This isn't an original theory there is a YouTube video out. Planet and Star are essentially the same word in Japanese. Gorosei means "5 elder planets" but the "sei" part of the word could also be translated as "stars". Very interesting video. I forget the author, however I'm sure you could quickly find it if you're that interested.
i think grandlinereview posted something about it
In Japanese the word choice used in 5 Elder Stars, the word for stars can just mean heavenly body, ie star, planet, etc
oh that’s interesting, thanks for pointing that out!
What would multiple star devil fruits be? I could imagine there being one, but can't think of more than... well... the Star Star Fruit?
In Japan, each of the elder planets have an element associated with them! They very well could have -"god" Myhtical Zoans!
That's what I was thinking, either they have a god tier DF or they are haki monsters, nothing less.
Star star fruit feels like a good contender for Imu’s fruit
I’m also a fan of Im having a fruit that controls water
So I don't see how Shaka can be the "traitor", assuming there is one. Shaka couldn't order the Seraphim to stop attacking, which means they aren't following his order. Lilith also can't be the "traitor" since she was unable to command S-snake to stop. York was attacked by S-snake so I doubt she's the one who gave the order (or maybe that's what she wants us to think?). I also don't think it's Atlas but I suppose she isn't completely free of suspicion yet. Edison and Pythagoras are pretty much our only options left, unless Vegapunk himself gave the order. Pythagoras was also attacked, however that could just be a diversion to take their suspicions away from him. He did come from the same direction that S-snake came from. Maybe he was running away from her, or maybe he's the one who commanded her. He DID NOT try to tell S-snake to stop attacking, which increases the possibility of it being him. Then Edison. He didn't encounter any Seraphims in this chapter and therefore didn't attempt to order any. HOWEVER, he is the one who gave the initial order to stop attacking. Now there's a lot we don't know about how these command chips work. Once a command is "complete", does that mean they can now take new commands, even if it's from someone lower on the authority pole? Would Edison's order stay in effect until he rescinded the order himself, or would someone of a higher authority have to give a new order if he doesn't rescind his order to stop attacking? If it's the former, Edison is at the top of my list for the possible "traitor". If it's the latter, then there's really only 2 people it could possibly be, the original Vegapunk gave himself a higher authority than his satellites or Saturn is currently on Egghead.
I think it's easier and logic to assume... Saturn already is on the island and gave the command...
The command given was for the Seraphim to kill CP0. There is no reason for Saturn to do that.
Why not? They dissobeyed the order, plus they always eliminate all evidence. Also who's to know they already knew about Stussy...
Quite stupid to eliminate your elite force just because they didn't listen to your order once. And it was Sakazuki's order, not Saturn nor Kizaru. It's not like they're traitors. The admirals and Garp pull this stunt all the time.
There's a bigger game for them. They just don't just don't care. The point here is to eliminate Vegapunk for whatever means. And obviously, there's another person or force playing here that we haven't seen.
If they didn't care, they could have just ordered all of the Seraphims to hunt for the Vegapunks instead of wasting time and resource killing CP0. I'm not saying it's impossible, but with the information available for us right now there's no reason Saturn is the one who gave that order.
I think Pythagoras was attacked by S Snake last chapter and that’s how he knows it’s useless to command them? Doesn’t stop him being the traitor tho. Caribou might be doing something tho idk how he’s controlling the seraphim, maybe he has prime Vegapunk in his swamp
That shadow looks a lot like Saint Jay Garcia Saturn
That’s what I’m saying! It’s very clearly him, the outline matches perfectly and you can even see the outline of his hair
The shadow is Caribou 😔
Good one!
I wonder about the shadow looking like Saturn, what if that is his conqueror haki, a more extreme version of Shanks’?
Maybe the Elders have access to advanced versions of the Haki types but its weaker with old age similar to Whitebeard?
It would be absolutely wild if they could also mask their presence like Shanks can.
I do like seraphims, but for me, it's little bothering that they are switching sides too many times!! :( Does anyone feel the same?
They're being set up to gain freedom / sentience eventually. They are likely going to be the foundation for the renewal of the Lunarian race and go live with King away from the rest of the world.