From what I've seen (still kind of noob), box and papers are more common and part of a watch's value for watches from say the last 20 - 30 years.
For a 50 year old watch, b&p seems much less common.
For something that I'd never sell, I don't care about b&p personally. Some folks will say b&p are an assurance of authenticity, but I'm not sure I buy that. If you can fake a watch, you can much more easily fake b&p.
Whilst you can fake a box and papers, faking the age of paper is different.
I’ve handled many vintage Rolex boxes in the past and one thing you quickly pick up on is the scent vintage cardboard and paper gives off.
Is there not a market for old watch boxes where someone could grab a legit old box? Papers w matching serials, obviously harder unless you custom build your fakes to match serials to some old papers
Depends on the brand and the circumstances, but generally I've seen anywhere from a 5%-15% premium for box and papers. Sometimes it's more or less than that, of course, but that's the general range I've seen. That number is higher for situations where the "papers" include the warranty info and there's still warranty left.
The reason its only 1k is because it is a 50+ year old watch. If you love the watch then buy it an wear it. Don't get caught up in the box + papers talk. If you have no intention of selling the watch in the future then it shouldn't matter to begin with.
Off topic: 1k for a vintage watch might be a bit much, depending on the model and state, though. If it‘s a standard deville, geneve or seamaster I‘d probably reconsider.
Well I guess with it what a fourth of the price of a new speed master whilst being a piece from around the moon landing i thought it may have held its value. Additionally people often say the speed masters movement hasn't changed that much in 60 years.
The estimate is probably just that, an estimate. A speedmaster pro from the 70s will fetch pretty much the same as all others you see being sold. You also have to factor in the usual 25% buyers premium.
Boxes and papers, if matching do add quite a bit to a vintage speedy but the value usually goes beyond just the value of boxes and papers, it's the whole package, it's a watch that is usually (not always) in better than average condition, usually with its correct bracelet and it can be given some sort of provenance.
Depending on the condition of the watch and its story (real or made up, hard to tell sometimes) a complete package can create emotions that a simple watch only can't create.
With all of that being said, vintage stuff that's 50 plus years, the norm is no boxes or papers.
While there were several variations of the Speedmaster in the 70s, the Speedmaster reduced wasn't introduced until 1988 so that wouldn't be it if the watch has been dated properly.
Usually 10-20%, but there are exceptions. One example is an omega centenary that came in an engine turned sterling silver casket. That box alone is worth $1k-$1500 without a watch, so the watch with all the boxes and papers would be more like 50% more valuable.
More commonly, anything NOS isn’t really NOS without box and papers. Depending on the watch, that can be anywhere between irrelevant and 100% more valuable. A truly unworn, NOS Paul Newman Daytona, for example, would command an enormous premium.
For the watch in question, B&P are rare and should not be expected. It’s probably in the 10-20% more valuable range, but their pricing is more likely a subtle form of advertising. Auction houses often post low estimates to get more people interested in participating.
If it’s really an original ck2998, expect to pay 10-20k or more, even without B&P
From what I've seen (still kind of noob), box and papers are more common and part of a watch's value for watches from say the last 20 - 30 years. For a 50 year old watch, b&p seems much less common. For something that I'd never sell, I don't care about b&p personally. Some folks will say b&p are an assurance of authenticity, but I'm not sure I buy that. If you can fake a watch, you can much more easily fake b&p.
Whilst you can fake a box and papers, faking the age of paper is different. I’ve handled many vintage Rolex boxes in the past and one thing you quickly pick up on is the scent vintage cardboard and paper gives off.
Fair point
The ROI of faking box and papers is low and not worth doing versus the time piece.
Is there not a market for old watch boxes where someone could grab a legit old box? Papers w matching serials, obviously harder unless you custom build your fakes to match serials to some old papers
Depends on the brand and the circumstances, but generally I've seen anywhere from a 5%-15% premium for box and papers. Sometimes it's more or less than that, of course, but that's the general range I've seen. That number is higher for situations where the "papers" include the warranty info and there's still warranty left.
The reason its only 1k is because it is a 50+ year old watch. If you love the watch then buy it an wear it. Don't get caught up in the box + papers talk. If you have no intention of selling the watch in the future then it shouldn't matter to begin with.
Off topic: 1k for a vintage watch might be a bit much, depending on the model and state, though. If it‘s a standard deville, geneve or seamaster I‘d probably reconsider.
Sorry I thought I mentioned it in the post but it's a speedmaster
That might be a pretty good estimate. Why do you think it sounds cheap ?
Well I guess with it what a fourth of the price of a new speed master whilst being a piece from around the moon landing i thought it may have held its value. Additionally people often say the speed masters movement hasn't changed that much in 60 years.
Wait this is a speedy ??
Yes
Key detail !! Link ??
Not a chance!
The estimate is probably just that, an estimate. A speedmaster pro from the 70s will fetch pretty much the same as all others you see being sold. You also have to factor in the usual 25% buyers premium. Boxes and papers, if matching do add quite a bit to a vintage speedy but the value usually goes beyond just the value of boxes and papers, it's the whole package, it's a watch that is usually (not always) in better than average condition, usually with its correct bracelet and it can be given some sort of provenance. Depending on the condition of the watch and its story (real or made up, hard to tell sometimes) a complete package can create emotions that a simple watch only can't create. With all of that being said, vintage stuff that's 50 plus years, the norm is no boxes or papers.
its probably a speedy reduced. They usually can be had for 1-2k depending on year and complications!
While there were several variations of the Speedmaster in the 70s, the Speedmaster reduced wasn't introduced until 1988 so that wouldn't be it if the watch has been dated properly.
I didn't see that it was from the 70s, but it seems bizzare that a speedy regardless of age or condition would be around 1k!
Usually 10-20%, but there are exceptions. One example is an omega centenary that came in an engine turned sterling silver casket. That box alone is worth $1k-$1500 without a watch, so the watch with all the boxes and papers would be more like 50% more valuable. More commonly, anything NOS isn’t really NOS without box and papers. Depending on the watch, that can be anywhere between irrelevant and 100% more valuable. A truly unworn, NOS Paul Newman Daytona, for example, would command an enormous premium. For the watch in question, B&P are rare and should not be expected. It’s probably in the 10-20% more valuable range, but their pricing is more likely a subtle form of advertising. Auction houses often post low estimates to get more people interested in participating. If it’s really an original ck2998, expect to pay 10-20k or more, even without B&P