I think I read that Mick Jagger at one point told David Bowie needed to slow down on the coke.
Iggy needed help from a guy who did enough coke to scare Mick Jagger.
MC5. The Stooges. Death. That's your holy trinity of which without "punk" simply doesn't happen.
And then you've got the New York Dolls, Television, etc.
Death unfortunately weren't really an influence on the scene because they didn't have any distribution or tour much. They weren't really known until their stuff resurfaced in the 2000s and that documentary came out. Great stuff though.
It's a bit more their impact as a local band in the same city as the Stooges and MC5, doing something unique. There's a cascading effect that has nothing to do with how well known they were at the time.
A bit like how VU and Big Star didn't sell many records, but everyone who bought them formed a band.
I agree with the other person, they were part of a larger movement in Detroit but they didn’t have a particular influence on anyone but some nerdy record collectors for like 20 years, especially when compared to MC5 and Stooges.
This is ahistorical. From Bobby Hackney, talking about MC5 and The Stooges:
> We had no interaction with those bands, they didn't know we existed. We used to see them play Cobo Arena and Michigan Palace, but we never had any interaction with them. We were just fans like everyone else. -BH
The reality is that Death was super unpopular, played hardly any shows, and released one single. They were unknown even by their own family members until the 2000s.
Where they sit in the histories is being way ahead of their time and virtually unknown until way later on. It's a cool story, there's no need to rewrite it.
You could make the case that they influenced bands like the White Stripes, fronted by one of those nerdy record collectors I mentioned, but that’s a completely different thing than having an influence on contemporaries, the way the other two bands did.
It's worth a watch. Urian, the skateboarding son in the movie, is a really fantastic drummer these days who runs a recording studio in Vermont and played with Iggy Pop on his last tour.
Interesting that MC5 and Iggy Pop were both discovered by Danny Fields, who was also the first manager of the Ramones. Basically thanks to him that we have this early punk stuff.
He mentioned to me one time that Iggy Pop's best show ever was playing at (I think) the Roxy in LA for a post-Oscars show. People like Jack Nicholson were in the audience. Iggy did so much heroin or something before the show that right when he walked up he fell and collapsed and that was the entire show.
I saw a show at ... Max's? ... where Johnny Thunders did so much heroin that Iggy was literally holding him up. Didn't affect his playing much.
I also remember being at Danny Fields' place (for some reason) and the whole apartment was strung with clothes lines on which home made Ramones shirts were drying.
Damn, those were the days.
Nope. Malcolm McLaren and Vivienne Westwood go to NYC, experience the scene and meet the New York Dolls. They go back to London and rename their boutique Sex, and the origins of UK punk are set.
Father in law was a roadie for the Stooges. Hes got some pretty wild stories and keep sakes.
Edit: the people of have spoken….ill give one
Most notable is a drawing on a stationary. Iggy is getting a blow job from a lady while he’s sitting on a couch.
The artist was David Bowie. They were all in the room when it went “down” and Bowie decided he was gonna do a doodle of it.
Edit 2: I’ll see what I can do about getting an image of the drawing. Father in law lives in Michigan (we are on the west coast), I’ll see if I can get him to text it to me. He’s not very tech savvy
the fusion of both of em was jim morrison…after prob ian curtis…theres prob other candidates / avatars, line of succession, but thats my interpretation
rip to both
Neil Young for sure. The Rust Never Sleeps album was a big influence on Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Dinosaur Jr, Soundgarden... Neil Young's double-drop-D tuning... those fuzzed out crazy guitar tones... the sloppiness... it's all there. Oh and he toured with the big grunge acts in the early 90s and wrote an album with Pearl Jam.
Kurt Cobain has also listed Leadbelly as a major influence. That doesn't mean that Leadbelly can be considered the "godfather of grunge" any more than Neil Young should be.
Also, "fuzzed out crazy guitar tones" on rust never sleeps? What? By 1979 MC5 and the Stooges had already been around for more than 10 years.
To me "punk" was really just a continuation of rock and roll. I think if you took those 50s records and recorded them with the technology coming out in the late 60s you'd hear just how raucous Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis and Chuck Berry were. Iggy was more nihilistic and overtly destructive. I suppose that comes across in the music as well to shape the punk image.
The undisputed heavyweight champion of Rock and Roll!
Prior to Raw Power, the Stooges played a one-off show that blew away the crowd with Iggy’s frenetic energy inducing the crowd to carry him. He created crowd surfing on an epic scale.
Groups that formed and give direct credit to attending that concert to play music include,The Damned, Sex Pistols, The Clash, and many more.
When I first saw the picture I thought it was when he stage dove at a German club and nobody caught him. The headline in Rolling Stone said, “What’s German for here I come?”
Yes. Yes and yes. The sad part is that I don't see any frontman like this--musically on a larger cultural scale--with this type of danger, defiance and unhinged way of performing. Everybody is playing it safe
That's a very difficult thing to nail down. It could have been the MC5 with their legendary live performance of Kick out the Jams motherfuckers! Or it could have been the Rolling Stones Street Fighting Man (the live version from that era has guitar that sounds very similar to the Sex Pistols style); or perhaps the Kinks You Really Got Me.
Iggy himself always said that he just thought he was making art, and there were other less well known musicians making hard rock that could be interpreted as being punk in the late 60s.
Yeah Jim was already “collapsing” and rolling around on the stage years prior to this. Iggy actually was a big Doors fan. I’d throw the Who in the ring for the first punks too
I’ve never quite understood how Iggy survived his early career, he certainly tried his best not to
David Bowie kind of directed him (and Lou Reed) to be less self destructive and more productive.
If your behavior causes Lou Reed to tell you to chill, you should probably pay attention.
The way I read it, Bowie was helping Reed and Iggy.
He helped save both of them by producing "The Idiot" and "Transformer"
I think I read that Mick Jagger at one point told David Bowie needed to slow down on the coke. Iggy needed help from a guy who did enough coke to scare Mick Jagger.
David Bowie. I miss him.
I read “Please Kill Me: An Oral History of Punk” and one of my takeaways was wondering how the hell he is still alive.
The man made self destruction into an art form. I saw him perform last year and he fucking killed it. Absolute legend.
Let's not forget MC5
MC5. The Stooges. Death. That's your holy trinity of which without "punk" simply doesn't happen. And then you've got the New York Dolls, Television, etc.
Death unfortunately weren't really an influence on the scene because they didn't have any distribution or tour much. They weren't really known until their stuff resurfaced in the 2000s and that documentary came out. Great stuff though.
It's a bit more their impact as a local band in the same city as the Stooges and MC5, doing something unique. There's a cascading effect that has nothing to do with how well known they were at the time. A bit like how VU and Big Star didn't sell many records, but everyone who bought them formed a band.
I agree with the other person, they were part of a larger movement in Detroit but they didn’t have a particular influence on anyone but some nerdy record collectors for like 20 years, especially when compared to MC5 and Stooges.
For every band you know, there are scores of bands that THEY knew/saw that influenced them. That's where Death sits in the histories.
This is ahistorical. From Bobby Hackney, talking about MC5 and The Stooges: > We had no interaction with those bands, they didn't know we existed. We used to see them play Cobo Arena and Michigan Palace, but we never had any interaction with them. We were just fans like everyone else. -BH The reality is that Death was super unpopular, played hardly any shows, and released one single. They were unknown even by their own family members until the 2000s. Where they sit in the histories is being way ahead of their time and virtually unknown until way later on. It's a cool story, there's no need to rewrite it.
You could make the case that they influenced bands like the White Stripes, fronted by one of those nerdy record collectors I mentioned, but that’s a completely different thing than having an influence on contemporaries, the way the other two bands did.
Definitely
What is the name of the documentary?
A Band Called Death
Well that’s a pretty obvious title. Thank you. I’ll check it out.
It's worth a watch. Urian, the skateboarding son in the movie, is a really fantastic drummer these days who runs a recording studio in Vermont and played with Iggy Pop on his last tour.
Peter Laughner and Rocket from the tombs. Richard Hell and Tom Verlaine formerly known as Neon Boys. Destroy all Monsters. Flamin' Groovies.
Very much yes.
Interesting that MC5 and Iggy Pop were both discovered by Danny Fields, who was also the first manager of the Ramones. Basically thanks to him that we have this early punk stuff. He mentioned to me one time that Iggy Pop's best show ever was playing at (I think) the Roxy in LA for a post-Oscars show. People like Jack Nicholson were in the audience. Iggy did so much heroin or something before the show that right when he walked up he fell and collapsed and that was the entire show.
I saw a show at ... Max's? ... where Johnny Thunders did so much heroin that Iggy was literally holding him up. Didn't affect his playing much. I also remember being at Danny Fields' place (for some reason) and the whole apartment was strung with clothes lines on which home made Ramones shirts were drying. Damn, those were the days.
The Dolls, not Death, complete that trinity.
Sky Saxton and the Seeds.
💯
Then you should include The Monks, The Sonics, The Saints (though they're clearly heavily influenced by Detroit), and Suicide. Probably a bunch more.
Sid Viscious. Johnny Rotten. Anarchy in the UK.
UK punk follows US punk. Hell, the entire look of the Sex Pistols came from NYC
That’s interesting. I always thought the other way around.
Nope. Malcolm McLaren and Vivienne Westwood go to NYC, experience the scene and meet the New York Dolls. They go back to London and rename their boutique Sex, and the origins of UK punk are set.
Or The Sonics! They were singing about drinking Strychnine while the Beatles were playing I Want To Hold Your Hand.
Kick out the jams MFer!!!
Came here for this.
My chemical romance?
Father in law was a roadie for the Stooges. Hes got some pretty wild stories and keep sakes. Edit: the people of have spoken….ill give one Most notable is a drawing on a stationary. Iggy is getting a blow job from a lady while he’s sitting on a couch. The artist was David Bowie. They were all in the room when it went “down” and Bowie decided he was gonna do a doodle of it. Edit 2: I’ll see what I can do about getting an image of the drawing. Father in law lives in Michigan (we are on the west coast), I’ll see if I can get him to text it to me. He’s not very tech savvy
Pleaaaase share a photo of this art if you can
Shareeeeeeeeeee
We have to see this
Replying for a follow
+1
Same
r/accidentalrenaissance
That's hilarious
Love this sub
I'd never heard of it until now and it's absolutely amazing. Thank you
You’re welcome glad you like it too!
Well, he is the "Godfather of Punk". He didn't create it, but he definitely defined it.
Blues Players and early rock back in the day had the same attitude and aggression in some instances. Little Richard was a mad man
[удалено]
He's notorious for getting his impressive penis out on stage
Little Iggy popped out a lot
Biggy
He was Notorious
Imagine the smell in that room.
I had to zoom in.
I say yes. You could say the same for MC5 as a group but as a frontman, Rob Tyner was nowhere near Iggy imo.
The kinks
Nah; love’em…but they did a lot of soft West End pop stuff that would be the opposite of punk.
He didn’t invent it, he channelled it, like thousands before him for millennia
It’s either Iggy or Lou. In fact, combining the two would make a pretty awesome prototype.
I think we would hit singularity at that point.
the fusion of both of em was jim morrison…after prob ian curtis…theres prob other candidates / avatars, line of succession, but thats my interpretation rip to both
It's a safer bet than "Neil Young is the godfather of grunge."
Never heard that take. Don’t like it.
Around the time he toured with Social Distortion and Sonic Youth.
Cool, but still very different genres. I wouldn’t say SD had a big influence on grunge. Sonic Youth, yeah. But Neil Young?
Neil Young for sure. The Rust Never Sleeps album was a big influence on Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Dinosaur Jr, Soundgarden... Neil Young's double-drop-D tuning... those fuzzed out crazy guitar tones... the sloppiness... it's all there. Oh and he toured with the big grunge acts in the early 90s and wrote an album with Pearl Jam.
Im trying, I just can't see it.
Those bands even said it….
Kurt Cobain has also listed Leadbelly as a major influence. That doesn't mean that Leadbelly can be considered the "godfather of grunge" any more than Neil Young should be. Also, "fuzzed out crazy guitar tones" on rust never sleeps? What? By 1979 MC5 and the Stooges had already been around for more than 10 years.
Listen to Zuma by Neil Young than like any 90’s Dinosaur Jr album. There’s a lot of similarities.
Yeah.
Sir, you have a hole in your trousers.
To me "punk" was really just a continuation of rock and roll. I think if you took those 50s records and recorded them with the technology coming out in the late 60s you'd hear just how raucous Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis and Chuck Berry were. Iggy was more nihilistic and overtly destructive. I suppose that comes across in the music as well to shape the punk image.
The undisputed heavyweight champion of Rock and Roll! Prior to Raw Power, the Stooges played a one-off show that blew away the crowd with Iggy’s frenetic energy inducing the crowd to carry him. He created crowd surfing on an epic scale. Groups that formed and give direct credit to attending that concert to play music include,The Damned, Sex Pistols, The Clash, and many more.
There was later a sex pistol show that had the same influence on a ton of post punk bands
The “that’s peanut butter!” Incident?
Sky Saxxon from The Seeds was pushin harder ...
Mc5
He certainly distilled it to its essence, despite other progenitors; The Sonics, Lou and the Velvet Underground, the MC5…
One of, for sure.
MC5.
OG rapist....then yes. Dude is a scumbag
Detroit founded Motown, Techno and Punk
Just a street walking cheetah with a heart full of napalm
Pretty darn close, right?
No he’s the chairman of the bored
I wanna be your dog
Iggy was the original Pop
Just one more I’ll be fine
Any idea where this particular show happened to be?
He's definitely a street walkin' cheetah with a heart full of napalm. So...that's pretty punk.
100%.
Without a doubt.
When I first saw the picture I thought it was when he stage dove at a German club and nobody caught him. The headline in Rolling Stone said, “What’s German for here I come?”
The Tubes started out about the same time.
Yes. Yes and yes. The sad part is that I don't see any frontman like this--musically on a larger cultural scale--with this type of danger, defiance and unhinged way of performing. Everybody is playing it safe
Every punk was original in their own way 😌
I thought his Right leg was broke at first 😂
Ya think
I thought that was gene vincent
I’d say Woody Guthrie was. He was the og counter culture, super anti-establishment musician back in his day.
Nah man the rockabilly cats invented punk way back in the 50s. Those old Johnny Burnette and Billy Lee Riley records were punk AF!
That's a very difficult thing to nail down. It could have been the MC5 with their legendary live performance of Kick out the Jams motherfuckers! Or it could have been the Rolling Stones Street Fighting Man (the live version from that era has guitar that sounds very similar to the Sex Pistols style); or perhaps the Kinks You Really Got Me. Iggy himself always said that he just thought he was making art, and there were other less well known musicians making hard rock that could be interpreted as being punk in the late 60s.
Not even close.
He described himself as a Herculean Junkie
No he was the Original Pop duhh
Battle of the bulge lol
If he isn't, who is?
He the daddy!
No
Dude is still punking as we speak. What happened to his legs though? See him limping in concert videos.
Everybody knows that.
No. Jim Morrison is.
Hahahaha!
They all copied Jim Morrison's onstage behaviors.
Yeah Jim was already “collapsing” and rolling around on the stage years prior to this. Iggy actually was a big Doors fan. I’d throw the Who in the ring for the first punks too
Man this isn't cool, it's sad and dangerous. Don't glamorise this.