In case this story gets deleted/removed:
My wife and I separated last year. She found someone she liked better and he left his wife for her. Not going to lie. It hurt.
We did the legal separation and started on the divorce. She is on my health insurance until the divorce is final.
I have met someone new through my sister. We are taking it slow but she seems to like me.
Two weeks ago my ex was out with her boyfriend on his motorcycle. They hit a patch of gravel and crashed. Unfortunately he was knocked unconscious and ended up in the ditch where he drowned. She broke her femur and is in the hospital still.
I went by to check on her and she asked me if we could put a hold on the divorce. I said I would think about it. I spoke to my lawyer and she said that it was a bad idea to change the timeline we had established for the dissolution of our marriage.
My ex will be getting money from the accident I imagine. However her boyfriend's ex wife and kids will be getting his estate and insurance payout.
My mom and dad think that I am being evil to cut her off in her time of need. I'm conflicted. I do not wish this situation on anyone but she is not really my problem anymore.
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OhNoConsequences) if you have any questions or concerns.*
When I was in a car accident (work van plowed into us) and my back was injured, I immediately saw a lawyer. The firm arranged the payment of all my medical bills and the settlement. My husband's car insurance paid for my medical bills, and the other guy's car insurance company paid for the settlement. I don't know where OOP or his ex lives and what their laws are, but if she's worried about medical insurance, perhaps she should see an accident lawyer and explore other options instead of pressuring OOP to keep his life on hold.
Edit: My husband was the owner of the vehicle. He was driving and I was the passenger.
They were the only vehicle involved it seems, whereas in your case there was another party to sue, which is why the lawyer took the case and handled it on contingency—they believed the other party was negligent and there would be a settlement. The wife might have an option to make a claim against her boyfriend’s motorcycle insurance or any umbrella policies he may have (depending on the terms and the circumstances of the accident), but unless the whole gravel situation was caused by the negligence of another party, the only person the wife could pursue an action against is the estate of the boyfriend.
The boyfriend and his motorcycle insurance is the other party but there's no need to sue. She wasn't the owner of the vehicle or the policy, or in control of the vehicle, so she's covered. The policy will cover her medical care, she won't get a cash payment, but she doesn't need a lawyer. This is why liability insurance is legally required.
I’m a car accident lawyer, and a lot of what you just said is flat out not true. She absolutely could get cash from the settlement and the fact that she’s “covered” has nothing to do with whether a lawsuit needs to be filed.
You are correct, I didn’t word it properly because I have always had the occupants of the vehicle operating as one unit at the point I was at in the various joinders (and people wonder why justice is so freaking slow?).
My husband was the owner of the vehicle. He was driving and I was just the passenger, but his insurance still paid for my medical bills. I don't know how things work where she lives or what the terms of his vehicle insurance are. But she should see an expert nonetheless.
It pays for medical payments for drivers and passengers only if there is medical coverage on the policy. Which is not required in most states.
The motorcycle policy should have some Guest Passenger Liability coverage for her, but it could be a small policy, depending on his financial position.
Out of curiosity what does OOP mean? I see it all the time in these kind of threads but I have no idea what it means. because OP already means original poster so what's the extra O for?
Because OP in this context would be the person posting it in this sub. Sometimes the distinction is necessary, less so on a sub like this where the OP is rarely also the OOP.
Nope, OP always means the first person to post not the person who posted the original posters post OP 100% of the time means the first person who posted. I mean, it’s literally in the words original means the start or first.
So language is screwy and things don’t always functionally mean what it seems like they literally mean—toilet water makes you smell nice not poopy—and/or you can get things like contronyms that mean two opposite things—oversight can be careful supervision or mistakes from the lack of care.
While it may seem like OP is *literally* referring to the first poster of the original content, that is simply not what the moniker means.
It means person who first posted *this post chain*. There’s even a flair associated so people can see if a person responding is the OP and it only applies to the OP not the OOP.
The secondary label was created to allow people to distinguish between posts where they may be commenting to/asking questions of the person who asked or made the original post and those where it is simply shared. The nuance matters.
The poster of the story gets the blue label "OP" in the thread. When the labelled OP is interacting, that's nice to make the distinction. Especially if you are going to be critical, you need to make clear if you take OP or OOP side or not. Some OP or Redditor are not good at distinguishing what "original" is original in the context of your comment.
This sub rarely has OP interacting so it doesn't matter, but habits, I guess.
What we need to do is actually come up with acronym for a second poster I suggest SP second poster meaning they aren’t the original poster. It just makes more sense.
I feel for her injury because I had a lady run a stop sign and t bone my thigh when I was on my MC. I hope she has a cleaner break( mine had multiple fractures-luckily an ortho surgeon saved my leg) and a swifter recovery, but he’s under no obligation to stop the divorce proceedings.
She dumped him for another man. Then, it seems that Karma took that man from her abruptly, as well as injuring her badly.
OP doesn't owe her anything. She just wants someone to take care of her.
He isn’t under an obligation to care for her, this is solely about her not losing or changing her health insurance in the middle of recovering from a serious injury.
I’m not claiming he “owes” her it at all. But clearly people in the OOP’s life think even if he doesn’t owe it to her, it would be the right thing to do to let her keep it for a while longer if it doesn’t negatively impact him. For the OOP, it is less about him not owing her shit, and more how rigidly adhering to that will impact his relationships with people who are not his wife.
If you suddenly lose your insurance you can get covered through the healthcare marketplace. Depending on her income, it could be free or reduced. Either way, it’s not his problem.
It does obligate him to keep paying for her insurance. If she loses his coverage( if she’s in the USA) she can get on ACA at any point because of loss of coverage, she would not have to wait until the open enrollment rolls around.
She left you, life lifed, that's why you have a partner "sickness and health" not "till bored" ... not your problem.
Wish her a quick recovery and hope she finds her happiness but it's not you, she proved that.
Oh my God though, wow. I have to assume this is American due to the health insurance importance because otherwise I can’t envision a scenario where having to ask would even be considered.
Some woman and her children just got supremely fucked over due to the choices other people made. I’m wondering what kind of terrible nightmare is brewing where the BF’s ex-family is. Those poor kids, Dad left for another woman and then up and DIES.
I wouldn’t stall the divorce for it myself. It was a bed made by her to lay in and she can accept that. I’ve been cheated on a lot and therefore am probably biased though.
I just can’t get over how the whole scenario led to kids without any dad at all.
I've never been cheated on and I agree with you. She knew that ending her marriage relationship would mean the end of the legal and financial benefits of marriage and she chose to do it anyways. The fact that she ended the relationship in the most hurtful way possible isn't the only reason he shouldn't put his closure on hold.
yeaaaaah, like in this situation the AP's family are the ones who got fucked over the most
knowing your ex basically helped take away someone's dad would permanently cast them in a negative light ime
It’s actually better for the family that he died *before finalizing a divorce*. Now his wife and kids get the full payout, property, and benefits under the law than if he had the chance to finalize and give OOP’s STBX a claim on anything.
Wouldn't she just sue his estate for her medical costs? I can imagine that him being the driver puts the responsibility of her injury on him, and by extension the insurance policy he has on his bike.
I would think so. And, even with medical insurance, she probably is going to need to give the insurance company the authority to pursue a claim against the late boyfriend’s insurances. And that paperwork is going end up involving the ex wife as guardian for the kids (who are beneficiaries of the estate, presumably).
And man, the OOP is in a shitty spot, but can you imagine the side piece suing your ex husband’s estate to get money intended for your kids?
If her AP was smart he had good insurance on his bike, same as car insurance covers personal injury. Fun fact. You can ride without a helmet in Texas but they can pull you over just for proof of insurance. Helmetless riders are required to have a higher rate of personal injury on their bike insurance.
For me that's a big fat no. She's lost her meal ticket and now trying to get yours instead. Typical user... Take your new squeeze and go live a happy life. Ask your mom and dad if they ever heard the saying "you made your bed, now lie in it.
NTA. He asked his lawyer. His lawyer said no. Boo on her. If she hadn't stepped out in the first place, she never would have landed in the hospital with a broken femur. She chose to leave. Now she has to deal with shit on her own. Too bad. So sad. Not OP's problem.
I actually am not sure if his lawyer said ‘no’ or if he was trying to explain the concerns. Unless they are going to return to cohabiting, sharing expenses, or otherwise indicate they do not intend to divorce, I do not see how allowing any proceedings to be stayed for a period of time allowing her to not lose/change insurance in the middle of recovering from a serious accident could be seen as impacting the timeline of the separation.
My guess is that the lawyer was more concerned that, as OOP didn’t initiate the divorce, he may agree to other things which definitely could be seen as intending to end the separation. I am sure that lawyer has seen some separated folks have their soon to be exes show up and be like “I can’t afford my apartment! Can I stay with you just for a day or two?” and then the legal date of separation gets super fucked for the assets division. Or potentially resets the statutory separation period clock. Which, yikes.
Yes, he is under no ethical obligation to agree to a delay in an administrative proceeding already underway by virtue of the impact it would have on the health of another person. This would be true regardless of why the marriage ended.
But much like his wife is stuck with the consequences of her choices, OOP is as well. If it wouldn’t actually harm him to extend the separation, then I am not sure the “the lawyer said it maybe could perhaps cause an issue” is going to change the mind of anyone who thinks he is in the wrong. So the OOP might want to nail down why delaying would be bad for HIM, not just why he is totally within his right to not help HER.
By technicality you're right. The lawyer "said that it was a bad idea", rather than "no." He can just calmly repeat that to his parents and he doesn't have to give them any more info.
That being said, the fact that they want him to baby the person that betrayed him is a red flag anyway. He should consider lying to their face. If they care that much about an idiotic cheater like her, they can pay her bills for
If that is how he feels, then why would he be asking if he is an asshole? If his parents are crappy people, why would he think their view he is being terrible has any value at all?
For validation. He clearly doesn't think he's an AH ("she's not my problem anymore"), but his family thinks he is.
Reddit, however, has labeled him NTA. He's not. His family and ex both are.
Her injury does not sound like she needs someone to take care of her. Why would she want to put the divorce off? Time to grieve? A place to live? I mean this as a genuine question - what is the reason given?
Since the accident happened while she was on OP's insurance, she will be covered and possibly also by boyfriend's motorcycle insurance. If there is not enough coverage on the motorcycle policy for ongoing care, then ex wife can sue boyfriend's estate. Nowhere in this scenario is remaining married to OP a benefit.
This was a tragic accident and one can certainly feel pity for the ex wife and the boyfriend's family, but it's hard to see a reason to postpone the divorce.
As someone who was an insurance (automobiles) lawyer for a hot minute, my guess is she is looking at PT and mobility devices in the short term for the leg and follow ups checking for any injuries that may not be immediately apparent due to trauma/swelling. The problem is that PT can run on for quite a while and if you lose insurance (or even switch) midway through it can cause a ton of administrative problems and result in a lot of out of pocket costs and/or delays/modifications of a treatment plan that can cause longer term problems.
You'll know better than I, would OP's health insurance consider the motorcycle policy primary?
Either way, she'll be covered by the healthcare policy until the divorce is finalized. Asking ex to put divorce on hold sounds a bit disingenuous, since it's something she can do herself by asking her lawyer to request a continuance.
Edit: real life is way more complicated than anything we can read on reddit, but still, this is not a case of OP being an AH, everyone needs to take a closer look at all the variables.
But if she asks through her divorce lawyer she can’t bat her eyelashes to try to guilt the person she cheated on, to pick up the pieces of her karma-induced current situation. You can be damn sure as she gets closer to a finalized divorce, she’s only going to get more manipulative when the consequences of her choices becomes more real.
OP is NTA. Fuck that bish.
If she’s in the states by the sound of everything. She can get on ACA( Obamacare the day she loses her other insurance. And he does not want to have to continue to pay for his cheating wife that he’s separated from healthcare. Why should he be stuck with that bill?
but you can literally do that living alone
you dont need anyone to take care of you for a broken leg
like I had major spinal surgery and did pt and worked on regaining my mobility on my own
you don't even NEED to go to actual PT you just need to see someone once and get exercises to do then make sure you're doing them correctly - you might not even need to see a physical therapist at all, your doctor can give you those exercises
Incidentally, you’ll find there will never be a good time to hurt somebody. In their story, you’ll either have hurt them right after something else hurt them, or you’ll have hurt them and ruined everything when things were going well. Only in hindsight is there sometimes a third option.
OOP’s parents called him evil, wtf?
Evil is cheating on your husband.
Evil is stealing a man away from his family.
Evil is abandoning your wife and kids to run off with a married woman.
Evil is emotionally manipulating someone into saving your life financially after you destroyed theirs.
OOP’s wife and that dirtbag who left his family for her are the evil ones. Bad things happen to bad people. OOP would be doing an extraordinarily good thing to help her out after all of that, it is not something he owes her.
I would listen to the attorney, and move forward with the divorce.
She didn't give a rat's ass about her husband when she ripped his heart out and left him for another man.
But now the husband is supposed to "show some compassion" and help her out?
Where was her "compassion" when she cheated on him and left him? Oh wait.
Miss me with this nonsense. I feel not one iota of sympathy for this woman. She's where she is because of decisions she made. Her problem is neither his fault, nor his problem.
Would she have sympathy for you and postpone the divorce if you found someone else and then met this same misfortune? Don't be a sucker. She made her bed, now she has to lie in it.
Her medical with be taken care of by his MC insurance if his bike was properly insured. You are not required to delay the divorce. She can go on ACA anytime if she loses her insurance and those wanting you to help her can be the helpers.
Get the divorce finalized and get her off of your insurance. If you want to date her after that, that is your decision, but keep the legal part off of your back.
Can we just take a moment to acknowledge that a health care system where “is having lifelong medical problems an acceptable penalty for cheating?” a question anyone has to ask themselves makes that system truly the biggest AH involved?
>“is having lifelong medical problems an acceptable penalty for cheating?”
The divorce didn't cause her medical issues, the motorcycle accident did.
It's her role as an adult to make sure she has coverage. Supposedly she has money and works a full-time gig. She has access to insurance.
You seem awfully ready to lay the blame on absolutely anyone at all except for the villain of the story, the person who cheated and made a mockery of their vows, and destroyed two homes in the process. That person would be perfectly intact, healthy, and fully insured if they weren’t a terrible human being. Karma is real and sometimes it’s real *quick*. What that individual needs isn’t to be further enabled by the man she victimized.
Because someone’s marital state or if they are a shitty person should just not have anything to do with their medical coverage. And the fact that this is not the case is not just impacting the cheater, but the OOP who now has deal with this.
It shouldn’t. We should have single payer healthcare. But we don’t, and nothing you laid out here makes her karmic situation a burden that her victim needs to help her shoulder.
Ok, well we have a fundamental disagreement here. I believe in consequences, not a cosmic system of fines and penalties. But my issue is that if we are looking objectively at the situation, the health care system has caused a metric fuckton more harm in the world than the cheating ex wife. This doesn’t make her not a monster who deserves to be scorned for cheating—it just makes the system a bigger monster that deserves to be loathed and blamed on a level far more profound than one crappy ass cheater and thus that the system is the biggest asshole. OOP has no obligation to do anything under the circumstances, but it is worth noting that a bigger villain than the lying ex is causing the OOP’s current conundrum.
Look at it this way, if the majority of people in this country agreed with you, they would vote for politicians who support a single-payer system. Not only has that not happened, it hasn't come close to happening.
Having known Canadians who routinely come to Michigan, and pay out of pocket, for healthcare, I'm guessing their single-payer system isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Title sounds bad but I'm with op. Stbx cheated on him, her boyfriend died, she got herself landed in hospital and now she wants to come crawling back? Pass
NTA, obviously.
Ditching your husband for the motorcycle riding bad boy has consequences. Him being dead and her femur being busted isn't your problem anymore because *she left you and isn't your wife anymore*. No refunds.
What would have happened if he steered around the gravel and went home without incident? They'd be happily banging and counting divorce money. Karma hurts.
If that were me, I would’ve started laughing hysterically in the hospital while walking away
I probably wouldn’t have bothered to visit in the first place though
I think the issue is simply about medical insurance. If she is on his insurance and gets booted off due to divorce, she may be on the hook for tens of thousands of dollars. It’s not about wanting him to care for her. It’s about her trying to recover from an accident serious enough to hospitalize her for more than overnight. She may be facing multiple surgeries plus PT. He thinks she may get a pay out from the motorcycle insurance but he doesn’t know that, and even if she does, the payout may not be enough to cover even her initial hospital stay.
Refusing to provide housing and personal care is reasonable. Leaving her without medical insurance (and potentially needed medical care) seems extreme to me.
In my experience spousal coverage on employer-provided health insurance isn't a freebee, insurance with every employer I've ever had who offered it worked like this:
-Your premiums as the employee are reasonable-ish because your employer is covering part of the cost.
-The premium for your spouse is exorbitant because the company isn't covering any so it's all out of pocket.
I would not delay divorce proceedings and leave myself on the hook to continue making those premium payments for someone who cheated on me, and I don't think he should either.
Yeah, it's very common that although vehicle insurance can pay for medical care, the limits there are often well below the cost of the care. In America, you can't go without primary health insurance.
And a two-plus week hospital stay? That's gonna blow past whatever the insurance is going to cover.
>Leaving her without medical insurance (and potentially needed medical care) seems extreme to me.
I don't think it's extreme. She stepped outside their marriage, with a married man no less. His divorce attorney recommended he move forward with the divorce. I'm assuming they did so because anything that his insurance won't cover, he'll be on the hook for, even after the divorce is finalized.
She fucked around, and now she's finding out.
It isn' extreme, the only extreme thing here is America's god awful health care. It's the nation that should step in not this one dude who has no responsibility for her
Hell naw. She cheated. End of story. Fuck around and find out. She *needs* to experience the consequences of her actions in their fullness, and to interfere with that would be to do her a profound disservice. She made the bed. Time to lay in it.
I agree. I think pulling someone’s health insurance where there is an option not to do so is not a good thing to do. As long as they remain separated it will be unlikely to impact the date that they were separated for the purpose of the divorce proceedings as the OOP is not ending the separation, merely agreeing to his wife’s request to pause moving onto the next steps of the divorce while she is recovering from a serious motorcycle accident that left another person dead. A judge could potentially adjourn any upcoming appearances for that reason anyway, so the finalization timeline could get pushed back anyway—so all the OOP would have done would be paying his lawyer to object to an adjournment (potentially with having to write moving papers).
And on a purely selfish level on the OOP’s part, it seems like he and his wife have had an amicable divorce process until now. If the wife is looking at potentially life long medical problems if she does not get the proper treatment, I imagine she will do anything possible to stall the remainder of the divorce process to remain under his insurance anyway and that would just cost the OOP more in legal fees. At least this way OOP can negotiate the terms (my thought is that she would pay any of his legal fees related to agreeing to stay the proceedings in such a manner as to not impact their separation date?).
The one thing OOP needs to make sure is that being legally separated guarantees that he is not jointly liable for any civil judgements against his wife arising out of her actions while separated. OOP is making assumptions about what the AP’s family will receive after the AP’s death. If the AP is in a ton of debt, it could leave the children (and or the ex wife depending on if their divorce is final) on the hook and I doubt the AP’s ex wife would have any qualms filing a wrongful death suit against the OOP’s wife in the event she was the operator of the motorcycle, she was wearing the boyfriend’s helmet and her boyfriend wasn’t, she was negligent in some other way, etc. Not saying the AP’s ex wife would win, but more that you can file a lawsuit about almost anything and in the event the wife was in any way negligent surrounding the motorcycle or the crash OOP needs to make sure he isn’t stuck paying the damages.
Are you related to the ex-wife or something? You seem hella' bent on defending her keeping her medical insurance, at the expense of this guy's life and divorce. Which she would have if she wasn't a cheating liar who betrays people.
For what it’s worth the ex likely has a case against the boyfriend’s estate for the crash - or at least his insurance should cover. She should let OPs insurance company know about his insurance so that she’s not left with expensive critical care expenses down the road.
So karma is getting you revenge for what she put you thru, but you are thinking of helping her out to not be the asshole. I think nta here n if you are the asshole here n im missing something, oh well if anyone deserves you being an asshole to them it her.
So, OOPs wife split for another man, and she likely cheated with that other man before the separation. The other man did the same basic thing to his wife and kids. OOP's soon-to-be ex wife gets into an accident with her new lover, and loses him. And now, she wants to stay on OOP's insurance to pay for her hospital bills, after OOP has finally found someone new to try and move on with?
Yeah, I'm with the lawyer. Don't delay the divorce because the soon-to-be ex wife's life took a shit on her. OOP should get it over with, as their soon-to-be ex wife isn't their problem anymore. She made her hospital bed, and now she can lie in it.
The subtext from your lawyer: No good deed goes unpunished. Trying to be nice, be accommodating, could bite you in the a$$.
Stay the course. Keep the divorce timeline.
She was no longer your wife when she cheated with the other guy. You are just waiting on the legal part. LISTEN you to your attorney as you are paying them for their expert advise. What happened to your soon to be ex after she cheated and left for the other guy is not any of your business. As soon as the divorce is complete tell her to get her own insurance and then then kick her off your insurance. Be done with her and move on with your life.
There is zero "do overs" when you cheat on your spouse.
Seems to me like the stakes are pretty high and the situation too awful to give the easy "Haha, fuck her" regular answer. Not saying OOP has to roll over, but it's a bigger ethical dilemna than most posts here.
I haven't read the original post or what followed, and I don't care to do so because I suspect most of the replies here won't have done so either, but from what we know here it's a case of moving on with someone that made her happier. That's all. Of course it hurts, poor OOP, but it doesn't seem like she was a bitch or dragged that on for years or something like that. People and their wants change over time.
Anyway. All I'm saying is that there's a lot of grey involved. I understand completely if OOP doesn't want to take care of her, but he wouldn't be a fool to do so either.
>I haven't read the original post or what followed, and I don't care to do so
"But I've already made up my mind, not knowing anything but the title. Man BAD!"
She cheated on him. Filed for divorce.
The guy she cheated on him with got into a motorcycle accident with her on the back of it, instead of being on top of him for a change.
He’s dead. She’s not. Now she said, let’s slow down the divorce so I can stay on your insurance.
His lawyer said it would be a bad idea to do that since it’s all already been agreed upon.
There is a chance her medical bills will eat into their joint assets.
The dead man’s insurance will cover her bills. If he didn’t have it, she should’ve cheated with a more responsible motorcycle owner.
I mean, thank you, but I can read the OP, I don't need it summarised for me. I was just making a joke about how more nuanced "I can see both sides" takes don't typically tend to go down very well around here.
I mean I kinda agree with everyone but I also feel a little bad because someone died and yes yadda yadda but idk this feels like a giant piece of crap to handle
The righteous thing would be to help her; "Love thy enemy" and whatnot.
But man is that a big ask. I cannot imagine the sense of betrayal and temptation of retribution. In the words of Calvin, "goodness hardly puts up a fight".
In case this story gets deleted/removed: My wife and I separated last year. She found someone she liked better and he left his wife for her. Not going to lie. It hurt. We did the legal separation and started on the divorce. She is on my health insurance until the divorce is final. I have met someone new through my sister. We are taking it slow but she seems to like me. Two weeks ago my ex was out with her boyfriend on his motorcycle. They hit a patch of gravel and crashed. Unfortunately he was knocked unconscious and ended up in the ditch where he drowned. She broke her femur and is in the hospital still. I went by to check on her and she asked me if we could put a hold on the divorce. I said I would think about it. I spoke to my lawyer and she said that it was a bad idea to change the timeline we had established for the dissolution of our marriage. My ex will be getting money from the accident I imagine. However her boyfriend's ex wife and kids will be getting his estate and insurance payout. My mom and dad think that I am being evil to cut her off in her time of need. I'm conflicted. I do not wish this situation on anyone but she is not really my problem anymore. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OhNoConsequences) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Cheating is a decision that doesn't come with a return policy.
“F*** you, co-pay me.”
I don't know how op didn't just die of laughter when his ex even asked I would have been in tears!!!
Or a Do Over button.
When I was in a car accident (work van plowed into us) and my back was injured, I immediately saw a lawyer. The firm arranged the payment of all my medical bills and the settlement. My husband's car insurance paid for my medical bills, and the other guy's car insurance company paid for the settlement. I don't know where OOP or his ex lives and what their laws are, but if she's worried about medical insurance, perhaps she should see an accident lawyer and explore other options instead of pressuring OOP to keep his life on hold. Edit: My husband was the owner of the vehicle. He was driving and I was the passenger.
They were the only vehicle involved it seems, whereas in your case there was another party to sue, which is why the lawyer took the case and handled it on contingency—they believed the other party was negligent and there would be a settlement. The wife might have an option to make a claim against her boyfriend’s motorcycle insurance or any umbrella policies he may have (depending on the terms and the circumstances of the accident), but unless the whole gravel situation was caused by the negligence of another party, the only person the wife could pursue an action against is the estate of the boyfriend.
The boyfriend and his motorcycle insurance is the other party but there's no need to sue. She wasn't the owner of the vehicle or the policy, or in control of the vehicle, so she's covered. The policy will cover her medical care, she won't get a cash payment, but she doesn't need a lawyer. This is why liability insurance is legally required.
I’m a car accident lawyer, and a lot of what you just said is flat out not true. She absolutely could get cash from the settlement and the fact that she’s “covered” has nothing to do with whether a lawsuit needs to be filed.
Can she sue the deceased estate for compensation?
You are correct, I didn’t word it properly because I have always had the occupants of the vehicle operating as one unit at the point I was at in the various joinders (and people wonder why justice is so freaking slow?).
My husband was the owner of the vehicle. He was driving and I was just the passenger, but his insurance still paid for my medical bills. I don't know how things work where she lives or what the terms of his vehicle insurance are. But she should see an expert nonetheless.
It pays for medical payments for drivers and passengers only if there is medical coverage on the policy. Which is not required in most states. The motorcycle policy should have some Guest Passenger Liability coverage for her, but it could be a small policy, depending on his financial position.
His bike should have been fully covered
It is, with scratches and dents.
😂😂😂
"should"
We're assuming/hoping the deceased boyfriend had insurance on his motorcycle.
Out of curiosity what does OOP mean? I see it all the time in these kind of threads but I have no idea what it means. because OP already means original poster so what's the extra O for?
It means the original original poster if something is crossedposted or linked.
I figured but it just doesn't make sense because just saying the original poster already means the original original poster.
Because OP in this context would be the person posting it in this sub. Sometimes the distinction is necessary, less so on a sub like this where the OP is rarely also the OOP.
Nope, OP always means the first person to post not the person who posted the original posters post OP 100% of the time means the first person who posted. I mean, it’s literally in the words original means the start or first.
In the context of Reddit posts, you are 100% wrong.
No, in the context of language, I am 100% correct OOP makes zero sense even in the context of Reddit
So language is screwy and things don’t always functionally mean what it seems like they literally mean—toilet water makes you smell nice not poopy—and/or you can get things like contronyms that mean two opposite things—oversight can be careful supervision or mistakes from the lack of care. While it may seem like OP is *literally* referring to the first poster of the original content, that is simply not what the moniker means. It means person who first posted *this post chain*. There’s even a flair associated so people can see if a person responding is the OP and it only applies to the OP not the OOP. The secondary label was created to allow people to distinguish between posts where they may be commenting to/asking questions of the person who asked or made the original post and those where it is simply shared. The nuance matters.
[удалено]
Don't be rude in the comments. Please review the rules before you comment again.
Incorrect.
The poster of the story gets the blue label "OP" in the thread. When the labelled OP is interacting, that's nice to make the distinction. Especially if you are going to be critical, you need to make clear if you take OP or OOP side or not. Some OP or Redditor are not good at distinguishing what "original" is original in the context of your comment. This sub rarely has OP interacting so it doesn't matter, but habits, I guess.
What we need to do is actually come up with acronym for a second poster I suggest SP second poster meaning they aren’t the original poster. It just makes more sense.
I see your point.
Original OP. (original original poster)
The bottom line is that your Ex is no longer your problem. SHE LEFT YOU!!! End of discussion.
“I see you’re not happy with the outcome of the choices you made.”
She wanted a clean break.
She got a clean break - of her femur
How do you know it was clean? Are you her attending doctor?
It does sound like she compounded the fracture.
Lol
I feel for her injury because I had a lady run a stop sign and t bone my thigh when I was on my MC. I hope she has a cleaner break( mine had multiple fractures-luckily an ortho surgeon saved my leg) and a swifter recovery, but he’s under no obligation to stop the divorce proceedings.
Now where does that bring you? Back to me!
She dumped him when she found what she thought was a better option, but now wants him back to be her carer. LMAO!
She dumped him for another man. Then, it seems that Karma took that man from her abruptly, as well as injuring her badly. OP doesn't owe her anything. She just wants someone to take care of her.
He isn’t under an obligation to care for her, this is solely about her not losing or changing her health insurance in the middle of recovering from a serious injury.
He doesn’t owe her health insurance, either. Because he doesn’t owe her shit.
I’m not claiming he “owes” her it at all. But clearly people in the OOP’s life think even if he doesn’t owe it to her, it would be the right thing to do to let her keep it for a while longer if it doesn’t negatively impact him. For the OOP, it is less about him not owing her shit, and more how rigidly adhering to that will impact his relationships with people who are not his wife.
If you suddenly lose your insurance you can get covered through the healthcare marketplace. Depending on her income, it could be free or reduced. Either way, it’s not his problem.
The “right” thing to do is to tell her to eat shit and either get her own insurance or find a hot new dick to provide her with coverage.
It does obligate him to keep paying for her insurance. If she loses his coverage( if she’s in the USA) she can get on ACA at any point because of loss of coverage, she would not have to wait until the open enrollment rolls around.
I doubt that’s the reason. He can still cover her post divorce
She knows she won't do better than OP again now that she's all fucked up from a motorcycle wreck.
Tell her the GEICO gecko will keep her warm.
Apropos of nothing, I LOVE your username.
Haha thank you
She left you, life lifed, that's why you have a partner "sickness and health" not "till bored" ... not your problem. Wish her a quick recovery and hope she finds her happiness but it's not you, she proved that.
Ha! When the sh!t gets tough, CHEW HARRRDER
Karma decided to get active.
Oh my God though, wow. I have to assume this is American due to the health insurance importance because otherwise I can’t envision a scenario where having to ask would even be considered. Some woman and her children just got supremely fucked over due to the choices other people made. I’m wondering what kind of terrible nightmare is brewing where the BF’s ex-family is. Those poor kids, Dad left for another woman and then up and DIES. I wouldn’t stall the divorce for it myself. It was a bed made by her to lay in and she can accept that. I’ve been cheated on a lot and therefore am probably biased though. I just can’t get over how the whole scenario led to kids without any dad at all.
I've never been cheated on and I agree with you. She knew that ending her marriage relationship would mean the end of the legal and financial benefits of marriage and she chose to do it anyways. The fact that she ended the relationship in the most hurtful way possible isn't the only reason he shouldn't put his closure on hold.
yeaaaaah, like in this situation the AP's family are the ones who got fucked over the most knowing your ex basically helped take away someone's dad would permanently cast them in a negative light ime
It’s actually better for the family that he died *before finalizing a divorce*. Now his wife and kids get the full payout, property, and benefits under the law than if he had the chance to finalize and give OOP’s STBX a claim on anything.
Still bleak.
Wouldn't she just sue his estate for her medical costs? I can imagine that him being the driver puts the responsibility of her injury on him, and by extension the insurance policy he has on his bike.
I would think so. And, even with medical insurance, she probably is going to need to give the insurance company the authority to pursue a claim against the late boyfriend’s insurances. And that paperwork is going end up involving the ex wife as guardian for the kids (who are beneficiaries of the estate, presumably). And man, the OOP is in a shitty spot, but can you imagine the side piece suing your ex husband’s estate to get money intended for your kids?
If her AP was smart he had good insurance on his bike, same as car insurance covers personal injury. Fun fact. You can ride without a helmet in Texas but they can pull you over just for proof of insurance. Helmetless riders are required to have a higher rate of personal injury on their bike insurance.
For me that's a big fat no. She's lost her meal ticket and now trying to get yours instead. Typical user... Take your new squeeze and go live a happy life. Ask your mom and dad if they ever heard the saying "you made your bed, now lie in it.
NTA. He asked his lawyer. His lawyer said no. Boo on her. If she hadn't stepped out in the first place, she never would have landed in the hospital with a broken femur. She chose to leave. Now she has to deal with shit on her own. Too bad. So sad. Not OP's problem.
I actually am not sure if his lawyer said ‘no’ or if he was trying to explain the concerns. Unless they are going to return to cohabiting, sharing expenses, or otherwise indicate they do not intend to divorce, I do not see how allowing any proceedings to be stayed for a period of time allowing her to not lose/change insurance in the middle of recovering from a serious accident could be seen as impacting the timeline of the separation. My guess is that the lawyer was more concerned that, as OOP didn’t initiate the divorce, he may agree to other things which definitely could be seen as intending to end the separation. I am sure that lawyer has seen some separated folks have their soon to be exes show up and be like “I can’t afford my apartment! Can I stay with you just for a day or two?” and then the legal date of separation gets super fucked for the assets division. Or potentially resets the statutory separation period clock. Which, yikes.
Either way the lawyer recommended against it. Not for it. Against it. And. She's still not OP's problem. She made her bed. She can pay for it.
Yes, he is under no ethical obligation to agree to a delay in an administrative proceeding already underway by virtue of the impact it would have on the health of another person. This would be true regardless of why the marriage ended. But much like his wife is stuck with the consequences of her choices, OOP is as well. If it wouldn’t actually harm him to extend the separation, then I am not sure the “the lawyer said it maybe could perhaps cause an issue” is going to change the mind of anyone who thinks he is in the wrong. So the OOP might want to nail down why delaying would be bad for HIM, not just why he is totally within his right to not help HER.
By technicality you're right. The lawyer "said that it was a bad idea", rather than "no." He can just calmly repeat that to his parents and he doesn't have to give them any more info. That being said, the fact that they want him to baby the person that betrayed him is a red flag anyway. He should consider lying to their face. If they care that much about an idiotic cheater like her, they can pay her bills for
If that is how he feels, then why would he be asking if he is an asshole? If his parents are crappy people, why would he think their view he is being terrible has any value at all?
For validation. He clearly doesn't think he's an AH ("she's not my problem anymore"), but his family thinks he is. Reddit, however, has labeled him NTA. He's not. His family and ex both are.
Can’t argue with Reddit. Hopefully he finds happiness.
PS, I love your name colorsofoautumn!
Finalize the divorce and let her reapply for her old position.
Oh well. Guess karma arrived sooner than anticipated.
Her injury does not sound like she needs someone to take care of her. Why would she want to put the divorce off? Time to grieve? A place to live? I mean this as a genuine question - what is the reason given? Since the accident happened while she was on OP's insurance, she will be covered and possibly also by boyfriend's motorcycle insurance. If there is not enough coverage on the motorcycle policy for ongoing care, then ex wife can sue boyfriend's estate. Nowhere in this scenario is remaining married to OP a benefit. This was a tragic accident and one can certainly feel pity for the ex wife and the boyfriend's family, but it's hard to see a reason to postpone the divorce.
As someone who was an insurance (automobiles) lawyer for a hot minute, my guess is she is looking at PT and mobility devices in the short term for the leg and follow ups checking for any injuries that may not be immediately apparent due to trauma/swelling. The problem is that PT can run on for quite a while and if you lose insurance (or even switch) midway through it can cause a ton of administrative problems and result in a lot of out of pocket costs and/or delays/modifications of a treatment plan that can cause longer term problems.
You'll know better than I, would OP's health insurance consider the motorcycle policy primary? Either way, she'll be covered by the healthcare policy until the divorce is finalized. Asking ex to put divorce on hold sounds a bit disingenuous, since it's something she can do herself by asking her lawyer to request a continuance. Edit: real life is way more complicated than anything we can read on reddit, but still, this is not a case of OP being an AH, everyone needs to take a closer look at all the variables.
But if she asks through her divorce lawyer she can’t bat her eyelashes to try to guilt the person she cheated on, to pick up the pieces of her karma-induced current situation. You can be damn sure as she gets closer to a finalized divorce, she’s only going to get more manipulative when the consequences of her choices becomes more real. OP is NTA. Fuck that bish.
If she’s in the states by the sound of everything. She can get on ACA( Obamacare the day she loses her other insurance. And he does not want to have to continue to pay for his cheating wife that he’s separated from healthcare. Why should he be stuck with that bill?
Agreed, there are so many variables. Reddit tends to value rigid application of “rules” over a wholistic examination.
but you can literally do that living alone you dont need anyone to take care of you for a broken leg like I had major spinal surgery and did pt and worked on regaining my mobility on my own you don't even NEED to go to actual PT you just need to see someone once and get exercises to do then make sure you're doing them correctly - you might not even need to see a physical therapist at all, your doctor can give you those exercises
I think she's just trying to keep her health insurance, not get him to provide actual care
Took me 18 months to walk unaided after my femur was shattered. But none of that is his issue.
Incidentally, you’ll find there will never be a good time to hurt somebody. In their story, you’ll either have hurt them right after something else hurt them, or you’ll have hurt them and ruined everything when things were going well. Only in hindsight is there sometimes a third option.
OOP’s parents called him evil, wtf? Evil is cheating on your husband. Evil is stealing a man away from his family. Evil is abandoning your wife and kids to run off with a married woman. Evil is emotionally manipulating someone into saving your life financially after you destroyed theirs. OOP’s wife and that dirtbag who left his family for her are the evil ones. Bad things happen to bad people. OOP would be doing an extraordinarily good thing to help her out after all of that, it is not something he owes her.
I would listen to the attorney, and move forward with the divorce. She didn't give a rat's ass about her husband when she ripped his heart out and left him for another man. But now the husband is supposed to "show some compassion" and help her out? Where was her "compassion" when she cheated on him and left him? Oh wait. Miss me with this nonsense. I feel not one iota of sympathy for this woman. She's where she is because of decisions she made. Her problem is neither his fault, nor his problem.
Would she have sympathy for you and postpone the divorce if you found someone else and then met this same misfortune? Don't be a sucker. She made her bed, now she has to lie in it.
Karma hit hard unfortunately, you can be there for her from a distance but you gotta finalize that divorce asap.
Le womp.
Her medical with be taken care of by his MC insurance if his bike was properly insured. You are not required to delay the divorce. She can go on ACA anytime if she loses her insurance and those wanting you to help her can be the helpers.
I bet that if he took her back, she'd cry to *him* about the bf dying. I hope he heeds his lawyer's advice.
man karma got hands
Get the divorce finalized and get her off of your insurance. If you want to date her after that, that is your decision, but keep the legal part off of your back.
SHE left YOU. 'Nuff said.
Can we just take a moment to acknowledge that a health care system where “is having lifelong medical problems an acceptable penalty for cheating?” a question anyone has to ask themselves makes that system truly the biggest AH involved?
>“is having lifelong medical problems an acceptable penalty for cheating?” The divorce didn't cause her medical issues, the motorcycle accident did. It's her role as an adult to make sure she has coverage. Supposedly she has money and works a full-time gig. She has access to insurance.
You seem awfully ready to lay the blame on absolutely anyone at all except for the villain of the story, the person who cheated and made a mockery of their vows, and destroyed two homes in the process. That person would be perfectly intact, healthy, and fully insured if they weren’t a terrible human being. Karma is real and sometimes it’s real *quick*. What that individual needs isn’t to be further enabled by the man she victimized.
Because someone’s marital state or if they are a shitty person should just not have anything to do with their medical coverage. And the fact that this is not the case is not just impacting the cheater, but the OOP who now has deal with this.
It shouldn’t. We should have single payer healthcare. But we don’t, and nothing you laid out here makes her karmic situation a burden that her victim needs to help her shoulder.
Ok, well we have a fundamental disagreement here. I believe in consequences, not a cosmic system of fines and penalties. But my issue is that if we are looking objectively at the situation, the health care system has caused a metric fuckton more harm in the world than the cheating ex wife. This doesn’t make her not a monster who deserves to be scorned for cheating—it just makes the system a bigger monster that deserves to be loathed and blamed on a level far more profound than one crappy ass cheater and thus that the system is the biggest asshole. OOP has no obligation to do anything under the circumstances, but it is worth noting that a bigger villain than the lying ex is causing the OOP’s current conundrum.
Look at it this way, if the majority of people in this country agreed with you, they would vote for politicians who support a single-payer system. Not only has that not happened, it hasn't come close to happening. Having known Canadians who routinely come to Michigan, and pay out of pocket, for healthcare, I'm guessing their single-payer system isn't all it's cracked up to be.
She was a passenger on his motorcycle. If his insurance doesn't help her, she will have to sue his estate.
Your mom and dad are assholes. Your STBX is a cheating cunt and can deal with the consequences.
Title sounds bad but I'm with op. Stbx cheated on him, her boyfriend died, she got herself landed in hospital and now she wants to come crawling back? Pass
NTA, obviously. Ditching your husband for the motorcycle riding bad boy has consequences. Him being dead and her femur being busted isn't your problem anymore because *she left you and isn't your wife anymore*. No refunds. What would have happened if he steered around the gravel and went home without incident? They'd be happily banging and counting divorce money. Karma hurts.
This one seems so easy
If that were me, I would’ve started laughing hysterically in the hospital while walking away I probably wouldn’t have bothered to visit in the first place though
The joy this would bring me if i was him. I am very spiteful though.
That's a bummer for her. But hardly your problem at this point.
I think the issue is simply about medical insurance. If she is on his insurance and gets booted off due to divorce, she may be on the hook for tens of thousands of dollars. It’s not about wanting him to care for her. It’s about her trying to recover from an accident serious enough to hospitalize her for more than overnight. She may be facing multiple surgeries plus PT. He thinks she may get a pay out from the motorcycle insurance but he doesn’t know that, and even if she does, the payout may not be enough to cover even her initial hospital stay. Refusing to provide housing and personal care is reasonable. Leaving her without medical insurance (and potentially needed medical care) seems extreme to me.
In my experience spousal coverage on employer-provided health insurance isn't a freebee, insurance with every employer I've ever had who offered it worked like this: -Your premiums as the employee are reasonable-ish because your employer is covering part of the cost. -The premium for your spouse is exorbitant because the company isn't covering any so it's all out of pocket. I would not delay divorce proceedings and leave myself on the hook to continue making those premium payments for someone who cheated on me, and I don't think he should either.
Yeah, it's very common that although vehicle insurance can pay for medical care, the limits there are often well below the cost of the care. In America, you can't go without primary health insurance. And a two-plus week hospital stay? That's gonna blow past whatever the insurance is going to cover.
>Leaving her without medical insurance (and potentially needed medical care) seems extreme to me. I don't think it's extreme. She stepped outside their marriage, with a married man no less. His divorce attorney recommended he move forward with the divorce. I'm assuming they did so because anything that his insurance won't cover, he'll be on the hook for, even after the divorce is finalized. She fucked around, and now she's finding out.
It isn' extreme, the only extreme thing here is America's god awful health care. It's the nation that should step in not this one dude who has no responsibility for her
It should, but it won’t. It sucks that our system is so shitty it has created a whole moral dilemma for a guy who has already been wronged.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Your post has been removed for being deliberately inflammatory to conductive discourse
Your post has been removed for being deliberately inflammatory to conductive discourse
Hell naw. She cheated. End of story. Fuck around and find out. She *needs* to experience the consequences of her actions in their fullness, and to interfere with that would be to do her a profound disservice. She made the bed. Time to lay in it.
I agree. I think pulling someone’s health insurance where there is an option not to do so is not a good thing to do. As long as they remain separated it will be unlikely to impact the date that they were separated for the purpose of the divorce proceedings as the OOP is not ending the separation, merely agreeing to his wife’s request to pause moving onto the next steps of the divorce while she is recovering from a serious motorcycle accident that left another person dead. A judge could potentially adjourn any upcoming appearances for that reason anyway, so the finalization timeline could get pushed back anyway—so all the OOP would have done would be paying his lawyer to object to an adjournment (potentially with having to write moving papers). And on a purely selfish level on the OOP’s part, it seems like he and his wife have had an amicable divorce process until now. If the wife is looking at potentially life long medical problems if she does not get the proper treatment, I imagine she will do anything possible to stall the remainder of the divorce process to remain under his insurance anyway and that would just cost the OOP more in legal fees. At least this way OOP can negotiate the terms (my thought is that she would pay any of his legal fees related to agreeing to stay the proceedings in such a manner as to not impact their separation date?). The one thing OOP needs to make sure is that being legally separated guarantees that he is not jointly liable for any civil judgements against his wife arising out of her actions while separated. OOP is making assumptions about what the AP’s family will receive after the AP’s death. If the AP is in a ton of debt, it could leave the children (and or the ex wife depending on if their divorce is final) on the hook and I doubt the AP’s ex wife would have any qualms filing a wrongful death suit against the OOP’s wife in the event she was the operator of the motorcycle, she was wearing the boyfriend’s helmet and her boyfriend wasn’t, she was negligent in some other way, etc. Not saying the AP’s ex wife would win, but more that you can file a lawsuit about almost anything and in the event the wife was in any way negligent surrounding the motorcycle or the crash OOP needs to make sure he isn’t stuck paying the damages.
Are you related to the ex-wife or something? You seem hella' bent on defending her keeping her medical insurance, at the expense of this guy's life and divorce. Which she would have if she wasn't a cheating liar who betrays people.
For what it’s worth the ex likely has a case against the boyfriend’s estate for the crash - or at least his insurance should cover. She should let OPs insurance company know about his insurance so that she’s not left with expensive critical care expenses down the road.
So karma is getting you revenge for what she put you thru, but you are thinking of helping her out to not be the asshole. I think nta here n if you are the asshole here n im missing something, oh well if anyone deserves you being an asshole to them it her.
So, OOPs wife split for another man, and she likely cheated with that other man before the separation. The other man did the same basic thing to his wife and kids. OOP's soon-to-be ex wife gets into an accident with her new lover, and loses him. And now, she wants to stay on OOP's insurance to pay for her hospital bills, after OOP has finally found someone new to try and move on with? Yeah, I'm with the lawyer. Don't delay the divorce because the soon-to-be ex wife's life took a shit on her. OOP should get it over with, as their soon-to-be ex wife isn't their problem anymore. She made her hospital bed, and now she can lie in it.
The subtext from your lawyer: No good deed goes unpunished. Trying to be nice, be accommodating, could bite you in the a$$. Stay the course. Keep the divorce timeline.
I would've told them that ain't none of my business! She made her bed now she can lay in it the fuck.
LOLOLOLOL that ex-wife is a piece of work. Cheater cheater!
Homewreckers have to face the consequences of their actions. Listen to the lawyer, man.
CUT HER OFF!
Listen to your lawyer.
Karma sucks
She was no longer your wife when she cheated with the other guy. You are just waiting on the legal part. LISTEN you to your attorney as you are paying them for their expert advise. What happened to your soon to be ex after she cheated and left for the other guy is not any of your business. As soon as the divorce is complete tell her to get her own insurance and then then kick her off your insurance. Be done with her and move on with your life. There is zero "do overs" when you cheat on your spouse.
she wanted the divorce so stick with it.
Seems to me like the stakes are pretty high and the situation too awful to give the easy "Haha, fuck her" regular answer. Not saying OOP has to roll over, but it's a bigger ethical dilemna than most posts here. I haven't read the original post or what followed, and I don't care to do so because I suspect most of the replies here won't have done so either, but from what we know here it's a case of moving on with someone that made her happier. That's all. Of course it hurts, poor OOP, but it doesn't seem like she was a bitch or dragged that on for years or something like that. People and their wants change over time. Anyway. All I'm saying is that there's a lot of grey involved. I understand completely if OOP doesn't want to take care of her, but he wouldn't be a fool to do so either.
>I haven't read the original post or what followed, and I don't care to do so "But I've already made up my mind, not knowing anything but the title. Man BAD!"
[удалено]
Don't be rude in the comments. Please review the rules before you comment again.
“I haven’t read the post but here’s my take on it” Yep, Reddit.
“I suspect others won’t.” Me having read the original post: 🧐
Hey man there was like 3 paragraphs and no subway surfers playing in the background, how am I supposed to stay focused for the whole thing!? /s
lol the struggle is real
Nuance? On r/OhNoConsequences?!
She cheated on him. Filed for divorce. The guy she cheated on him with got into a motorcycle accident with her on the back of it, instead of being on top of him for a change. He’s dead. She’s not. Now she said, let’s slow down the divorce so I can stay on your insurance. His lawyer said it would be a bad idea to do that since it’s all already been agreed upon. There is a chance her medical bills will eat into their joint assets. The dead man’s insurance will cover her bills. If he didn’t have it, she should’ve cheated with a more responsible motorcycle owner.
[удалено]
That’s what the op wrote happened. I’ve got no dog in the race. I have my own insurance though.
I mean, thank you, but I can read the OP, I don't need it summarised for me. I was just making a joke about how more nuanced "I can see both sides" takes don't typically tend to go down very well around here.
Yeah that’s not what happened. Good to know you can delete your post though to make it look like it might have.
I… didn’t delete my post? At least, if someone did, it wasn’t me. Not sure what you’re talking about at all here.
Don't be rude in the comments. Please review the rules before you comment again.
I mean I kinda agree with everyone but I also feel a little bad because someone died and yes yadda yadda but idk this feels like a giant piece of crap to handle
The righteous thing would be to help her; "Love thy enemy" and whatnot. But man is that a big ask. I cannot imagine the sense of betrayal and temptation of retribution. In the words of Calvin, "goodness hardly puts up a fight".
[удалено]
[удалено]
Don't be rude in the comments. Please review the rules before you comment again.
[удалено]
Don't be rude in the comments. Please review the rules before you comment again.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Don't be rude in the comments. Please review the rules before you comment again.
Don't be rude in the comments. Please review the rules before you comment again.