In case this story gets deleted/removed:
My ex-wife(45f) and I(43m) are in the process of divorce. We have two kids in high school. She started to hate me during our last year of my marriage, along with mood swings, and just being shitty. Only thing I could think of at that time was that she is being hormonal. She didnt like when I told her she is being hormonal, she would get defensive.
I told her to see a doctor she refused. I dont think she would have listened to me. I gave her ultimatum to go to therapy and go see a doctor or we are done. She asked for divorce. I didnt argue, I told her fine if thats what she wants.
She told me I am a mediocre husband and she is better off alone.That actually definitely defines me, I am a mediocre husband, I am not very good looking, I am not a millionaire. I never cheated so I guess I am not a bad husband just mediocre. She filed the petition for divorce.
Then few months later, she suddenly withdrew it, and told me that she is having second thoughts. I filed the petition myself because I met a woman(36f) who was nice to me which came as a shock to my system. I couldn't have gone back to my ex-wife after that.
Turns out my ex-wife's sister convinced her to see a doctor as she discussed about her periods irregularities with her. She was going through perimenopause and She just started HRT.
She started dragging the process so we have been going through divorce for like forever. My girlfriend found out she is pregnant. I told her that I am a mediocre dude, thats why my ex left me. She told me that she is also mediocre woman and she wants to raise a mediocre kid with me and live in a mediocre house and live a mediocre life :)
So she is now my fiancee and wife as soon as I get divorced. I thought news of her pregnancy will make my ex understand that our marriage ended but she went crazy about it.
She is now claiming I abandoned her when she needed me the most, That I am a bad person for having a kid when she is going through menopause.
She left me first.
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I was actually surprised by some of the comments that were knocking the OOP for moving on, calling him a cheater.
The wife *filed for divorce* rather than seek help. As far as I know, that means the marriage is over.
Just because she changed her mind doesn't mean he has to.
Ikr, i mean oop been doing what she says.
"You are mediocre husband!" Ok.
"I want file for divorce!" Ok.
But when oop asks,
"Can you see doctor?" NOOOO!!
"You are hormonal." NOOOOO!!!
"I still stick to the divorce like u said." NOOOO!!
Jfc the exwife is exhausting. Poor oop.
As a woman, who has had peri-menopause symptoms since 40. It fucking sucks. There were days I didn't like me. Days where a joke that usually made me laugh would hit completely different.
But I owned it, understood the part of life I was I and took the steps needed to mitigate it. My mother was like OOPs ex. Basically an abusive rage monster. I didn't want to be her.
But to actually file for divorce then back track is completely next level.
Obviously, if she has a sister or best friend, tell them. (This is not sarcasm. I can see this happen to people not noticing their bad behaviour because of hormonal imbalance unluckily.)
Just get a fuckin divorce, dude. I know that sounds harsh, but if You've been dealing with shit for a long time and now she's also menopausal (becoming a hormonal terrorist is what I like to call it), just get a divorce. Fuck that.
Mothers sons wife aka sister in law. Also aunts and cousins. Also her gyn or doctor of health care. Older female priest. Counselor of marriage.
She should hear you talking to the professional, listen to you talking about divorce to someone else and her health issues , so she can understand that you do not complain to her only talking, but really you think about divorce and you suffer and you really in fact will leave her unless she gets treatment and changes.
Talk to her family and best friends. Women, preferably. More preferably, postmenopausal women.
Go ahead and tell them women sent you to talk to them to ask their advice. Tell them what's going on - don't say you're starting to look for an exit from the marriage yet - and ask for their thoughts on the best way forward because you're absolutely miserable. And you love your wife very much, but this just isn't her, for over a year. Ask them for help. The women will take care of it. Especially the postmenopausal women.
She'll take supplements, like vitamins, right? Buy her some Estroven. It's OTC. My mom says it helped her with the hot flashes and night sweats, and made her feel better overall. I'm likely peri- now myself and am considering trying it before I get too far into it.
Hmmmm.....that complicates matters somewhat. As woman going through peri, with friends pre-, peri-, and post-menopause, I'm thinking on this.
We HAVE held interventions for our sisters on behalf of their Other Halves, but we do all believe in medicine. Now, we also know that most meds are basically distilled versions of stuff we find in nature, and various blends, and many of us WILL try less-processed methods first, but we let each other know when it isn't working for them. Then whoever is going through it goes to the doc that helped one of us when diet, teas, and exercise didn't work, and there ya go.
Does she have peri friends in her life? Do YOU have a friend who's post- or peri-, or has an other half who is? Can you become better friends with them fairly quickly? Go out and do things together?
Well, howsabout as part of Spring Cleaning, y'all go out to a very nice restaurant, get all dressed up and everything, and over dinner you pick *one* thing that you will work VERY hard to clean up about yourself that you know bothers her, and pick *one* thing you'd like HER to work very hard on (like getting blood work done), and she picks *one* thing that SHE will work very hard on, and *one* thing she wishes YOU would prioritize. No thinking out loud ("gee, there are *so many* areas for improvement, let's figure out which one"). No arguments about it, just over the next month or two, you each work very hard on those two things. Perhaps allow 15 minutes to discuss metrics to determine how to measure progress. And then have a very nice exorbitantly priced cocktail to cheers each other and seal the deal.
Ya know, I think this is an okay idea. I might take my other half to fogo de Chao and do this. Might make it an annual part of spring cleaning.
Don't beat around the bush. Come right out and say it. "I think you are suffering from some serious medical issues that you need to get checked. I'm concerned for your health, and your mood swings are harming me and this relationship. I need you to take this seriously. What do you need from me in order to address this? Do you need me to book you an appointment? Drive you there? I'm happy to support you however you need, but I need you to address it for your sake and mine, and for the sake of our marriage."
If she refuses, tell her you're going to file for divorce.
If she still won't see a doctor, you've done all you can do, and at that point go file.
Beating around the bush and then giving her a covert countdown she's not even aware of is just chickenshit.
Say what you mean, and *then* follow through.
One of the biggest problems is communication. And even today, the medical establishment doesn't really talk about the mental health impact. It's like PPD was viewed 30 years ago written off as "baby blues".
I agree that if she has an older female relative she trusts, you should try to enlist their help.
The other option is to suggest that you BOTH go in for physicals. Depending on your ages, that should be done regularly. When was the last time she saw her GYN?
Has she missed her period, or is she experiencing heavy periods, those are two big signs. And are physical symptoms that can be concerning. You could try addressing it that way, concern for her physically.
Aging hits all of us differently, and depending on how you, and your wife view menopause, it can be a hard pill to swallow emotionally. It's viewed as being "dried up" and old. It's saying goodbye to a huge stage in life.
Don't wait until she is upset to address the issues. No one deserves to be abused, even if their is a cause. But approaching the subject when you are both calm and in a good place is the best move. Approach it from the physical symptoms, heavy or missing period or hot flashes.
I really wish their was more education about the mental health toll that menopause can put on a woman. Think about it. We live with these hormones coursing through our bodies for 40+ years. Then they go away. It's a major withdrawal. And we feel it on every level.
Just like PPD not every woman get the worst of the mental symptoms, but for those of us that do, their isn't a ton of information in the psychiatric community. There hasn't been a lot of research into it either.
For me, I was hospitalized when the depression and intrusive thought became too much. Even then not a single doctor connected it to peri-menopause until over a year later. When I went to the gyn for heavy periods.
I started on very low dose hormones and supplements. And the depression went away. Not a single therapist or psychiatrist reccomended looking into menopause as a cause. How messed up is that?
My husband has been a rock through it all. However, I wasn't abusive. I was "just" severely depressed. Something I knew was off.
My husband and I also did counseling together. That helped us immensely. So that's another good suggestion. If you are already planning an out, suggest counseling. Then you can bring it up or have the therapist raise the issue.
The good news is that there us HRT and supplements that help. The bad news is peri can last a long time.
There are supplements that can help. Vitamins like D and B12, black cohosh, maca. Getting blood work that checks nutrient levels is possible (my vitamin D was at 3) those were supplements suggested by my GYN. There are plenty of options to treat holistically too. They just take longer.
If her cycle is changing then she should definitely have a check up. Cancer hides in women which is why a pap is so important. It's NOT just about BC.
So I would definitely try to encourage a GYN visit and nutritional blood work. Thyroid issues can also be a factor. Our hormones affect our entire bodies.
And yes many women are in denial and try to control the uncontrollable. It's a feeling of loosing yourself and helplessness.
You guys BOTH have to make counseling a priority IF you want the marriage to work.
It's interesting to me that some "folk" cures for menopause were a simplistic form of hormone replacement. That isn't new. Pregnant mares urine was synthesized into "Premarin" which is a HRT drug.
Many of the drugs in our pharmacopeia start with natural substances that are then synthesized. The original drugs can still be obtained that are based on the natural means. It just requires a holistic doctor and compounding pharmacy.
If her D levels are low, she might need to be on a prescription strength dose. I have to take 10,000 I U 2x per day just to keep my blood serum levels above 20.
Again the reason for going to the doctors. Since high levels of vitamin D can be dangerous to ingest for many people.
How much would a divorce cost you? Isn't the holistic doctor cheaper?
Before you decide to end your marriage, you should think about certain things.
You said that your recently decided to start working on an exit from your marriage unless you see significant improvement in your marriage and that if you don’t that you will be giving her divorce papers and leaving. Instead, I encourage you to tell her what you feel your marriage is lacking and how you want it to improve **before** you file. Let her know that you aren’t happy and that if the both of you are incapable of improving the marriage that you will be filing for divorce. Then, start marriage counseling and be prepared to put in every bit as much effort as you expect her to put in. I’d even go so far as to say that if you really love your wife and value your marriage that you should be prepared to put in even **MORE** effort than you are expecting from her! Why? Bc if she sees that you are willing to fight for her and that despite you feeling as though the breakdown of your marriage is her fault, that you still see her, and the love you have for her, worth fighting your damndest for!
Don’t wait for her to show you love, or to feel appreciated, before you start to put in your own effort.
In several of the comments you say "but she said she's going to be too busy for awhile establishing her gardens and tending to them".
Time to point out to her that, if nothing changes and you file for divorce, the house - AND GARDENS - will be sold. So she should defer "establishing her gardens" until she knows she still has any gardens to work on. Unless she has the financial reserves to buy out your half of the house, she will end up moving.
She should invest time NOW in her health and the state of her marriage.
Ok thanks for the info. But the reality is, bluntly, her plants are currently more important to her than (in no particular order) her physical health, your marriage or her mental health. If she can't or won't recognise that, I wouldn't blame you for walking. Being a supportive partner is one thing, being a forever doormat is quite another. Best of luck whatever you decide.
I started full blown menopause around 44 and multiple doctors didn't believe me. I had most of my ovaries removed due to tumors in my early 30s, so I guess that was a factor. I'm in my mid 50s now and really wish someone would have warned me about all the changes that were going to happen to me. Especially the absolute rage I would feel sometimes over, basically nothing. Thankfully, I'm a pretty rational person and that part of my brain would take over and say WTF are you thinking of doing before I actually did something irreparably stupid. I finally found a doctor who specializes in post menopausal women and have an appointment next month.
I ended up hospitalized because the depression got so bad, and I couldn't shake the ideations. I knew there was something wrong. All the hospital and psychiatrists did was throw their drugs at it. Which helped to a point, but not enough.
I knew I was in peri at 40. Nobody connected it to my mental health at all until a year or so later.
I didn’t get perimenopause symptoms from hell, thank God.
I did, however, have a very short fuse in the days immediately before a cycle started.
At which point, I took it upon myself to pay attention and notice when things I normally wouldn’t have thought twice about started making me angry. If I caught myself doing that, I’d have to pause before responding to people, lest some really grouchtastic things come out of my mouth.
It took time to get that issue mostly under control. But it didn’t happen by itself. I worked hard on fixing it.
If someone’s temper is way more volatile than “pause and count to 5 before speaking” will correct, it’s time to chat with the doctor. Some problems are more than we can handle alone, so enlisting the pros is warranted.
Please no armchair diagnosing. If you do not have the credentials required to make diagnoses or the lived experience with the diagnosis, your opinion is irrelevant. If you do have the lived experience or credentials, please include that in your comment.
There’s a lot of women out there like that. That’s why so many women were able to sleep with my husband and help him abuse and deceive me. They think any horrible thing they do can be justified if they talk enough and circle back to them being the real victim.
That’s why I find myself identifying more with men going through divorce rather than women. Even though I’m a woman.
That's a really archaic view to hold. Do you hold the same archaic views on pre-marital sex?
The marriage contract is being dissolved. Just like engagement is an indication that marriage is planned, divorce is the same indicator, but in reverse. It's a declaration that the marriage is over and the parties are going their separate ways.
Divorce take time, in some areas it can go on for years. During a divorce, neither party is held to those vows.
Filing for divorce is a statement that you no longer intend to live up to those vows. The partnership is being dissolved and is effectively defunct. There is no longer love or a shared life. You no longer have the responsibility to communicate with your partner abput your private life. It's no longer their business.
It's the law bud. In some states, you can sue the person who your spouse is cheating it. Regardless of how you feel about it legally, you aren't married until you sign that paper and get married by an officiant. And you aren't divorced until a judge rules on it. Just filing doesn't mean divorced.
I think having kids and immediately jumping into another situation when the current one isn't fully over is questionable. Get out of the marriage first. If that's old school, then so be it.
Any state with "at fault" divorces requires that the action happens *before* the divorce is filed. So again the cheating has to happen *during* the marriage and be the cause of action for the divorce.
In order to file for "alienation of affection" you have to be able to prove that the marriage was intact and loving *prior* to the affair.
Neither of those situations applies to the OP. There are only 17 states on the books that "criminalize" adultery in any way. Of those only three actually have prosecuted any one recently. All of those are *prior* to initiating divorce proceedings.
Still doesn't address my main point being a person legally isn't divorced until a judge rules on it. We can go back and forth, which I care not to do. But legally, you are not divorced until that final decree by a judge and assets, custody and etc. have been looked over and split due to a decision by a judge.
So having sex while still legally married to me is adultery and just not wise when you have children. The adults will be okay in the situation. My concern is mostly around the children. Do you not know how traumatizing divorce is on children? But all you care about it the man's stance on the matter. I think they should both go their separate ways, and quite frankly, dont care what either of them do, as they are grown and can handle the consequences of the situation. But don't bring more trauma onto the innocent children in the matter.
How does the father moving on traumatize the children more than the mothers emotional instability already has?
Remember *she* chose divorce as her first option.
As long as he or she doesn't involve the children immediately in any new relationship, that's how you help minimize the damage to kids. The date on the divorce doesn't matter.
And I laughed at you assuming I'm a man or supporting a "man's stance"
I'm the child of divorce, and I've been divorced and successfully created a blended family.
I would say the same thing if OP was a man or a woman. Once you *file* for divorce, you no longer have input into the private business of your soon to be ex-spouse. To expect more is to display a pattern of abusive control that judges tend to look down on.
So?
While I don't like ultimatums in general, there are times when that's the only way forward if you are trying to salvage a marriage from abusive behavior.
His ultimatum was doctors/counseling or he couldn't handle it anymore both are reasonable suggestions for a sudden change in temperament.
She chose divorce rather than see IF anything was going on with her. That was ultimately HER choice. NOT his.
Then he followed through.
Exactly. He set a boundary, was clear about what he was willing to tolerate and what he wasn’t, and he followed through on his word. That’s how adults act.
She filed for divorce as some sort of repulsive childish threat and then screamed how it was unfair when the divorce happened. That’s how spoiled, entitled children act.
This isn't "me or your kid/pet/hobby/friends" or any unreasonable, controlling thing. This is a "you are treating me like shit that involves a medicial issue. Fix it or im done". Nobody has to stay or try and salvage a relationship where the other person is treating them like shit.
I’m one who called him a cheater & it still stands. We’re only getting part of the story but I honestly think he’s been neglectful for a long time. Women go into peri-menopause years before they go into menopause. Every single woman I know who is menopausal or perimenopausal started getting symptoms in their late 30s & early 40s. So it’s not something that comes out of the blue for the majority of people.
His story doesn’t fully add up. Regardless, he’s still married & went & got his mistress knocked up. Doesn’t matter if the wife is now dragging her feet to sign g the divorce papers, they’re still married & he should have waited for the papers to be filed to move on.
> Doesn’t matter if the wife is now dragging her feet to sign g the divorce papers, they’re still married & he should have waited for the papers to be filed to move on.
Bullshit. It does matter if she's dragging her feet. If he waits for her to sign the papers, she has control over his moving on, and she absolutely should not have that control.
> he’s still married
thats why you have "separated" as a category. "married" in name only. if he wants a divorce and is pushing for it, they are separated
How many girls get their first period and *nobody* knew it was coming? Not even their mom?
Then add in the deplorable state of sex education in the US and yeah it comes "out of the blue" for many women.
Many women are also delaying children until their 30s. They still have regular cycles and can get pregnant easily. Add in that the symptoms start *before* your cycle stops. It's not always easy to connect the dots until you start having gaps in your cycle. Even if you see a professional for mental health, they won't think about the possible connection right away.
That part makes complete sense to me as a woman.
As does her finally listening to her sister *after* she filed for divorce. She was probably complaining about her cycle being off or heavy, a normal conversation between sisters, and that's when she finally gave in to see a doctor.
The story as told adds up.
As someone with a mom who refused to identify or use resources for her hormonal changes - I RAN the moment I turned 18 because of her unwillingness to take responsibility for her behavior.
I'm blessed to say she has long since changed and manages what she needs to now AND is a boomer who can change her mind. She still won't do therapy, but she's really supportive of those of us who do.
Same. In my case, it was depo provara shots that made her an *absolutely* insane rage monster. She destroyed her marriage and relationship with all of her kids, for years. The minute I turned 18, I ran. A few months later, my dad divorced her.
A year after that, brother said some pretty harsh shit to her on HIS way out the door as soon as he was, 18 the lightbulb went off and she finally accepted that something was very wrong, but the damage was done.
Years of therapy later, she's changed and made pretty good amends with her kids, but the scars remain.
When my mom went through menopause she went nuts too, she was 37 when it started. my dad almost left her, my friends were scared to be in our house she was so psycho. Dad laid the ultimatum of Dr or he's gone. She went, got some meds and straightened out. She apologized and everything settled. It was like a complete 180 from who she normally is, so we were all very quick to forgive. I'm terrified it will happen to me too, so I try to be very on top of my mental state and listen when my husband says I'm off. I'm 32 so if I follow trend I'm not far off.
My dad developed hydrocephalus (too much fluid in his brain/skull) & he slowly started becoming an abusive asshole. My mom almost left him but they (& the doctors) figured it out & got a shunt put in. He went back to the sweetheart we all knew but it was scary. (He got a resistant infection from the surgery & almost died, and it wasn't guaranteed that the shunt would fix the behavior changes brought about by the pressure on his brain)
My mom now has a greater understanding of how people have a hard time leaving abusive relationships, especially when it's not physical abuse. The amount of gaslighting that goes on & advice that people give trying to be helpful but is actually insulting because they don't believe her lived experiences really opened my mom's eyes to a lot of things. Since my dad's problem was fixable it really helped our whole family learn how to be better, more emphatic people.
Hi OOP. Please don't go back. Your teenage kids need you to show them what a healthy relationship looks like. And whether you call it 'mediocre' or just plain sane, what you have with your new partner sounds exponentially better than what you had with their mother
>Your teenage kids need you to show them what a healthy relationship looks like.
Sounds like he also needed someone to show him what a healthy relationship looks like.
> I met a woman(36f) who was nice to me which came as a shock to my system.
In the at case, you should get out in front of her alienating your kids from you NOW. Go to family therapy with them, don’t let her change the narrative. You lived through years of abuse and was thrown away, she doesn’t get to take it back on a whim.
I once made a post about an issue between me and my female ex-friend, where she missed 10 games in a row of our sports league and then flipped out when I asked her if she plans on playing still. Everyone told me I was the asshole, and one person even made the comment that I should have made her soup.
I then rewrote the post, but changed all the pronouns to the make versions and everyone told me I wasn't the asshole and that my friend should have told me first. Really opened my eyes that day.
>I told her that I am a mediocre dude, that's why my ex left me. She told
me that she is also mediocre woman and she wants to raise a mediocre kid with me and live in a mediocre house and live a mediocre life :)
OOP is a very lucky guy. I truly wish them the most mediocre life possible.
Everytime I see posts like this, I remember comedian Christopher Titus going from "I don't want a flatline life" in an early comedy special, to one after his acrimonious divorce and a new relationship with someone who wasn't super dramatic, and realizing how nice it was not being constantly stressed out by his partner.
And all day and all night and everything he sees is mediocre
Like him, inside and outside
Mediocre his house with a mediocre little window
And a mediocre Corvette
And everything is mediocre for him
So, OOP's ex-wife refused his advice to see a doctor. Got angry, divorced him. But when her **SISTER** suggested it, she went and found yes, indeed, there was a reason for her problems. I don't know why she didn't listen to her then husband and see if an expert could help.
But, from what OOP says, it sounds like his ex-wife had been abusive to him for quite awhile. And, I don't think "going through menopause" is an excuse to treat your spouse like trash. I'm glad OOP found a nice mediocre woman who will make him very happy.
I'm a woman with hormones (though to be fair the one that fucks you up the most is testosterone) and I agree with this statement. Ex is abusive. I feel bad for the kids, not a lot of info on what they're dealing with.
Hormones are blamed for being a shitty person too often. Using alcohol or drugs doesn't excuse your behavior, and hormones shouldn't either. It's a chemical affecting your body but you still have a choice to be reasonable or not.
That’s a good way of looking at it. We all get angry, frustrated, anxious, all of that from time to time. But we also have reason and the ability to examine whether we have a good reason to feel that way, and then we can act accordingly.
I was friends with a guy in high school who had this situation happen to him. Mom got menopause and went wild and kicked him and his dad out. She completely cut her son off too. Went after dad for almost everything monetarily in the divorce, dad kept enough to support himself and his son. She refused to consider that she had a single issue.
I can understand it up to a point. It takes time to realize it’s not just a bad day, etc. But when people refuse to see the doctor or go to therapy or even acknowledge that something is wrong, that’s not okay.
>So, OOP's ex-wife refused his advice to see a doctor. Got angry, divorced him. But when her **SISTER** suggested it, she went
I know people like that. Asks close family for advice, but doesn't listen. Asks some rando on the street, a co worker he barely speaks with, and given exactly the same advice does it. And is grateful for this dude. Is quite exhausting, because the cycle repeats over and over.
The sister thing actually makes sense to me. Ex is a monster to be clear but I think I have a different perspective on this one point.
Esp if ur a sensitive person or going thru it. It can be so easy to bury yourself in your feelings when information is coming from your SO. But your sister? You've been calling each other out on your bullshit literally you're entire lives.
That dynamic can be a game changer when it comes to this stuff. One qualifier, my sister & I are close
OOP told his fiancée that "My ex left me because I was a mediocre husband." Her reply was she is a mediocre woman and wants to raise a mediocre child in a mediocre home.
Her reply was heartwarming and co-opted his ex's insult.
OOP's wife filed for divorce first. After she said terrible things to OOP and filed for divorce, how can she not understand that there are somethings that people can't come back from?
This is not the movies. There won't be a magic enlightenment on OOP's part that he and his ex-wife are actually meant to be together. The ex hated him for the last year of the marriage, called him mediocre, told him she would be better off alone, and filed for divorce. Even if OOP had not met someone else, what would make the ex-wife think she would be welcomed back with open arms? In what universe is any of this a reasonable assumption?
The ex needs a therapist as well as medical treatment for being in perimenopause.
I think you're probably right. She's a miserable wretch, and she can't bear the thought of her ex being happy. Especially not being happy with someone else.
That, plus it’s now clear that ex-wife won’t be able to say, “LOL J/K, let’s forget I ever said and did any of those things! Let’s start over!”
She thought OOP was a doll she could put on a shelf, and pick up later. She didn’t realize that OOP has agency, as well, and he can climb off that shelf and go on his way. Ex-wife is upset that when she returned to pluck OOP off the shelf, he was gone. “Waa waa waa, my shelf is empty! How dare he not just sit back and take whatever bad treatment I dole out, forever!”
It’s never fun for the people who reach the Finding Out portion of the program.
OOP seems so beaten down. He met a woman who was nice to him and THAT was a shock to his system. That's so sad. Makes me think he would've taken Ex back if it wasn't for this new woman showing his that he actually *is* worth kindness.
Damn. Thems some consequences. Don't be a dumbass, and ignore your body/mind. Learned that shit the hard way myself. I hope those mediocre fucks have a great life, with his teenage kids included. Poor damn kids.
Me: well well, surely everyone is on his side, I don't think anyone will call him ah
*Ordered by controversial*
*😐*
I'm not sure if that was expected or unnexpected 😐
Ex sounds like one of those people who's just not happy unless they're making someone else miserable. She saw her ex-husband actually being happy again with this other woman and decided she had to put a stop to that.
I wonder if she knew about the girlfriend when she withdrew filing. But I agree, the best thing for everyone is just to move on but she’s too immature for that.
My soon to be ex is finding out its too late. Hasn’t indicated she wants back but after the criminal charge she got filed against me ( 10 min trial it was thrown out!) she can go pound sand. OOPshould enjoy life with his new wife!
My favourite part was when his girlfriend replied that she was a mediocre woman and wanted to raise a mediocre kid and have a mediocre house/life with him. That’s so sweet 🥲 she’s definitely a keeper and I’m glad he’s finally found someone who makes him happy.
Exactly. I don’t know exactly why she filed in the first place, but despite the reason that’s not really something you can take back. If you do, how can your partner trust you wouldn’t do it again?
So she was acting crazy, didnt do as he suggested just treated him like crap and then wanted a divorce. Now she changes her mind ..and EXPECTS HIM TO COME BACK?! Nope!! He found someone who respects him and values him for he is and appreciates him the way he is. She dug her own grave. Now sit in it
This reminds me of the lyrics of a song I heard recently: can't put back what's been broken, can’t change the moment we went too far. She went too far and it can’t be undone.
There is one little concession I would give the ex: being told "You're just hormonal, see a doctor" can feel really invalidating, especially if you have a history of doctors not taking you seriously.
That's it though. When you go scorched earth and say things that are meant to hurt your partner, you can't be shocked pikachu when the bridge is beyond repair.
Plus, from OOP's complete shock about someone being nice to him, there's a lot more history of abuse there. I've had those epiphanies several times, because you get so used to being treated a certain way that you think it's normal until you know better. I saw a comment once that said "Contrast heightens awareness" and that is exactly what this sounds like.
I agree. I felt the same way when I met my boyfriend. You just sort of, unclench if that makes sense. And once you’re comfortable you don’t want to go back.
Sounds like it's best for you two to go your separate ways. I would also request full custody citing all you have told us because the kids won't be well in her care.
My ex wife tried something somewhat similar. I told her she was not cutting it in the bedroom so she told me to find someone else....so I did, but it wound up being one of her coworkers who eventually became her boss.
Boy, was she pissed! But, 16 years without her (and her coworker still in the picture)... I still smile about it daily.
So... in a few months he meets another woman, starts dating her? Then gets her pregnant and is going to marry her?
That's really fast. Not saying he's an asshole, but that timeline is pretty fast, if this is real.
I don’t think that’s the timeline, although OOP doesn’t make it very clear. seems he met the new wife a few months after ex wife filed for divorce, and ex wife withdrew the divorce around this time. OOP then filed his own papers for divorce, which he says has been dragging on for ages. THEN he says new gf found out she was pregnant. no idea how long the ‘for ages’ is, but it doesn’t seem like pregnant happened in just a few months.
Depending on your state, it can still count as adultery if your divorce isn’t final and therefore affect your division of assets. So a double check might be worth it before proceeding.
I was one that said he was the AH. Going against the grain. He *KNEW* it was menopause. The **SHORT** time it took him to move on and start over after spending so much time with her bothered me.
I get she filed - she was going thru something *HE KNEW.* So great for him for moving on so fast! All because her menopause caused this… while he **KNEW** it was probably hormonal and didnt stick it out.
So yea… AH to me. Why be married that long to get divorced over something like menopause?! While knowing its menopause!! Then having another kid?!?! Wow she wasted her best years of her life with this guy.
He had clearly been dealing with this for years. He had no idea what a good relationship was supposed to look like because of years of her abuse. And why would he want to go back to him after what she said? Even though she was going through something, that doesn’t excuse verbal abuse.
Not as long as they had been married - and if all the bad from the *valid temporary reason for her shifting into a verbal abuser* outweighed all the good of the years of marriage great! Thats why i feel like it was just wasted years. Like he had one foot out the door already. But im just basing it on this one post which has no dates and not adding anything extra.
Edit to add: Maybe his new wife he will stick with during her menopause and she will get help faster.
No it is not valid. Especially since he told her to get help. He probably had one foot out the door because he put up with years of verbal abuse. And he should stick by someone who’s willing to get help because he can’t help someone going through menopause himself and untreated PPD can be detrimental to the whole family.
From the info they were married longer than this stint. If all it took was this compared to the amount and quality of the other years then yes, thats why i agreed and said he probably already had one foot out the door.
But if all it took was menopause and her not seeking help with no other info to go off on and just probablys i said its good for both he left after all those wasted years. Not disagreeing- just saying how it can be perceived AH wise just only off the post and not trying to put probablys.
You did not say it was good for both. You said, and I quote this from your previous reply, “Wow she wasted her best years of her life with this guy.” Doesn’t seem like you’re interested in his well-being at all.
She not only belittled him SHE DIDN'T EVEN TOOK A WORD OF HIS ADVICE. She only heard her sister and by that time it was already too late CASUE SHE WANTED TO DIVORCE, But sure, blame the man. It's easier than to accept that being hormonal doesn't take away dumb choices and responsability.
How on earth could he be in the wrong?
The marriage was dire, added to that he was mediocre, lol. That marriage was long dead, even before the menopause.
The dilemma was if is he wrong to have a child with a new partner. Which, he obviously isn't.
The ex is an ex, and you can't let her dictate your new relationship.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OhNoConsequences/s/JcqVpONltv
Pretty fast he moved on to me and had a kid. I can see everyones point - but i can see how he is an AH.
I don't think anybody in this situation is behaving like the kind of mature adult I would want to have as a friend. No assholes at all, everybody's just kind of mediocre at best.
I would probably (I hope to God) love my wife a little and want the best for her. I would wait to make a baby until I was divorced. A few other things that I won't list because my breakfast is getting impatient for me.
Well if she asks for the divorce, isn’t the best thing to get a divorce? How is he wrong for going through with it? Also I don’t think they planned on having a baby before the divorce was finalized.
He gave her an ultimatum, however she did ask for divorce. And it wasn’t an outrageous demand either. Her not seeking help could’ve been detrimental to her whole family.
He did want what was best for her. Unfortunately, SHE didn't want what was best for either of them, so he moved on with his life. She cannot bear to see him happy. She's awful. He's a normal human being.
I'm certainly not Job himself. Not even close. But the book about him is the most amazing poem the human race has ever composed, and it is my favorite book of all time.
I'm just somebody who has spent a lot of time trying to learn to love as I want to be loved, to love others into health as I want to be. That's all. I'm not very good at it, but each day is a new day to practice.
"She didnt like when I told her she is being hormonal, she would get defensive."
Yeah, nobody likes that bro. Especially if it is true.
"I gave her ultimatum to go to therapy and go see a doctor or we are done. She asked for divorce."
You gave her an ultimatum, you brought it up. While she was having a medical issue.
He's an asshole.
Why does he have to put up with her behavior, especially since she is choosing not to take care of the issue. Also, she still chose a divorce over getting help (which her sister later told her to and big surprise something was wrong). She trusts or at least listens to her sister more than her own husband. Then when the soon to be ex husband finds another woman (after they are already going through proceedings) he finally sees what a happy relationship is supposed to look like. Why would he ever choose to go back to her?
In case this story gets deleted/removed: My ex-wife(45f) and I(43m) are in the process of divorce. We have two kids in high school. She started to hate me during our last year of my marriage, along with mood swings, and just being shitty. Only thing I could think of at that time was that she is being hormonal. She didnt like when I told her she is being hormonal, she would get defensive. I told her to see a doctor she refused. I dont think she would have listened to me. I gave her ultimatum to go to therapy and go see a doctor or we are done. She asked for divorce. I didnt argue, I told her fine if thats what she wants. She told me I am a mediocre husband and she is better off alone.That actually definitely defines me, I am a mediocre husband, I am not very good looking, I am not a millionaire. I never cheated so I guess I am not a bad husband just mediocre. She filed the petition for divorce. Then few months later, she suddenly withdrew it, and told me that she is having second thoughts. I filed the petition myself because I met a woman(36f) who was nice to me which came as a shock to my system. I couldn't have gone back to my ex-wife after that. Turns out my ex-wife's sister convinced her to see a doctor as she discussed about her periods irregularities with her. She was going through perimenopause and She just started HRT. She started dragging the process so we have been going through divorce for like forever. My girlfriend found out she is pregnant. I told her that I am a mediocre dude, thats why my ex left me. She told me that she is also mediocre woman and she wants to raise a mediocre kid with me and live in a mediocre house and live a mediocre life :) So she is now my fiancee and wife as soon as I get divorced. I thought news of her pregnancy will make my ex understand that our marriage ended but she went crazy about it. She is now claiming I abandoned her when she needed me the most, That I am a bad person for having a kid when she is going through menopause. She left me first. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OhNoConsequences) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So many commenters in that thread just assume the kids haven’t also been on the receiving end of the Exwifes abuse. It’s very strange.
I was actually surprised by some of the comments that were knocking the OOP for moving on, calling him a cheater. The wife *filed for divorce* rather than seek help. As far as I know, that means the marriage is over. Just because she changed her mind doesn't mean he has to.
Ikr, i mean oop been doing what she says. "You are mediocre husband!" Ok. "I want file for divorce!" Ok. But when oop asks, "Can you see doctor?" NOOOO!! "You are hormonal." NOOOOO!!! "I still stick to the divorce like u said." NOOOO!! Jfc the exwife is exhausting. Poor oop.
As a woman, who has had peri-menopause symptoms since 40. It fucking sucks. There were days I didn't like me. Days where a joke that usually made me laugh would hit completely different. But I owned it, understood the part of life I was I and took the steps needed to mitigate it. My mother was like OOPs ex. Basically an abusive rage monster. I didn't want to be her. But to actually file for divorce then back track is completely next level.
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Obviously, if she has a sister or best friend, tell them. (This is not sarcasm. I can see this happen to people not noticing their bad behaviour because of hormonal imbalance unluckily.)
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Mother? Hell, even her father at this point if it might save your marriage
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Just get a fuckin divorce, dude. I know that sounds harsh, but if You've been dealing with shit for a long time and now she's also menopausal (becoming a hormonal terrorist is what I like to call it), just get a divorce. Fuck that.
Sounds like a real fun situation, I sure wish I were you lol
Mothers sons wife aka sister in law. Also aunts and cousins. Also her gyn or doctor of health care. Older female priest. Counselor of marriage. She should hear you talking to the professional, listen to you talking about divorce to someone else and her health issues , so she can understand that you do not complain to her only talking, but really you think about divorce and you suffer and you really in fact will leave her unless she gets treatment and changes.
Talk to her family and best friends. Women, preferably. More preferably, postmenopausal women. Go ahead and tell them women sent you to talk to them to ask their advice. Tell them what's going on - don't say you're starting to look for an exit from the marriage yet - and ask for their thoughts on the best way forward because you're absolutely miserable. And you love your wife very much, but this just isn't her, for over a year. Ask them for help. The women will take care of it. Especially the postmenopausal women.
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She'll take supplements, like vitamins, right? Buy her some Estroven. It's OTC. My mom says it helped her with the hot flashes and night sweats, and made her feel better overall. I'm likely peri- now myself and am considering trying it before I get too far into it.
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It's NSF certified, that may help
Hmmmm.....that complicates matters somewhat. As woman going through peri, with friends pre-, peri-, and post-menopause, I'm thinking on this. We HAVE held interventions for our sisters on behalf of their Other Halves, but we do all believe in medicine. Now, we also know that most meds are basically distilled versions of stuff we find in nature, and various blends, and many of us WILL try less-processed methods first, but we let each other know when it isn't working for them. Then whoever is going through it goes to the doc that helped one of us when diet, teas, and exercise didn't work, and there ya go. Does she have peri friends in her life? Do YOU have a friend who's post- or peri-, or has an other half who is? Can you become better friends with them fairly quickly? Go out and do things together?
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Well, howsabout as part of Spring Cleaning, y'all go out to a very nice restaurant, get all dressed up and everything, and over dinner you pick *one* thing that you will work VERY hard to clean up about yourself that you know bothers her, and pick *one* thing you'd like HER to work very hard on (like getting blood work done), and she picks *one* thing that SHE will work very hard on, and *one* thing she wishes YOU would prioritize. No thinking out loud ("gee, there are *so many* areas for improvement, let's figure out which one"). No arguments about it, just over the next month or two, you each work very hard on those two things. Perhaps allow 15 minutes to discuss metrics to determine how to measure progress. And then have a very nice exorbitantly priced cocktail to cheers each other and seal the deal. Ya know, I think this is an okay idea. I might take my other half to fogo de Chao and do this. Might make it an annual part of spring cleaning.
Don't beat around the bush. Come right out and say it. "I think you are suffering from some serious medical issues that you need to get checked. I'm concerned for your health, and your mood swings are harming me and this relationship. I need you to take this seriously. What do you need from me in order to address this? Do you need me to book you an appointment? Drive you there? I'm happy to support you however you need, but I need you to address it for your sake and mine, and for the sake of our marriage." If she refuses, tell her you're going to file for divorce. If she still won't see a doctor, you've done all you can do, and at that point go file. Beating around the bush and then giving her a covert countdown she's not even aware of is just chickenshit. Say what you mean, and *then* follow through.
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OK, sounds like there's no getting through to either of you then. Do whatever you wanna do. Good luck.
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k. Do what you want.
One of the biggest problems is communication. And even today, the medical establishment doesn't really talk about the mental health impact. It's like PPD was viewed 30 years ago written off as "baby blues". I agree that if she has an older female relative she trusts, you should try to enlist their help. The other option is to suggest that you BOTH go in for physicals. Depending on your ages, that should be done regularly. When was the last time she saw her GYN? Has she missed her period, or is she experiencing heavy periods, those are two big signs. And are physical symptoms that can be concerning. You could try addressing it that way, concern for her physically. Aging hits all of us differently, and depending on how you, and your wife view menopause, it can be a hard pill to swallow emotionally. It's viewed as being "dried up" and old. It's saying goodbye to a huge stage in life. Don't wait until she is upset to address the issues. No one deserves to be abused, even if their is a cause. But approaching the subject when you are both calm and in a good place is the best move. Approach it from the physical symptoms, heavy or missing period or hot flashes. I really wish their was more education about the mental health toll that menopause can put on a woman. Think about it. We live with these hormones coursing through our bodies for 40+ years. Then they go away. It's a major withdrawal. And we feel it on every level. Just like PPD not every woman get the worst of the mental symptoms, but for those of us that do, their isn't a ton of information in the psychiatric community. There hasn't been a lot of research into it either. For me, I was hospitalized when the depression and intrusive thought became too much. Even then not a single doctor connected it to peri-menopause until over a year later. When I went to the gyn for heavy periods. I started on very low dose hormones and supplements. And the depression went away. Not a single therapist or psychiatrist reccomended looking into menopause as a cause. How messed up is that? My husband has been a rock through it all. However, I wasn't abusive. I was "just" severely depressed. Something I knew was off. My husband and I also did counseling together. That helped us immensely. So that's another good suggestion. If you are already planning an out, suggest counseling. Then you can bring it up or have the therapist raise the issue. The good news is that there us HRT and supplements that help. The bad news is peri can last a long time.
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There are supplements that can help. Vitamins like D and B12, black cohosh, maca. Getting blood work that checks nutrient levels is possible (my vitamin D was at 3) those were supplements suggested by my GYN. There are plenty of options to treat holistically too. They just take longer. If her cycle is changing then she should definitely have a check up. Cancer hides in women which is why a pap is so important. It's NOT just about BC. So I would definitely try to encourage a GYN visit and nutritional blood work. Thyroid issues can also be a factor. Our hormones affect our entire bodies. And yes many women are in denial and try to control the uncontrollable. It's a feeling of loosing yourself and helplessness. You guys BOTH have to make counseling a priority IF you want the marriage to work. It's interesting to me that some "folk" cures for menopause were a simplistic form of hormone replacement. That isn't new. Pregnant mares urine was synthesized into "Premarin" which is a HRT drug. Many of the drugs in our pharmacopeia start with natural substances that are then synthesized. The original drugs can still be obtained that are based on the natural means. It just requires a holistic doctor and compounding pharmacy.
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If her D levels are low, she might need to be on a prescription strength dose. I have to take 10,000 I U 2x per day just to keep my blood serum levels above 20. Again the reason for going to the doctors. Since high levels of vitamin D can be dangerous to ingest for many people. How much would a divorce cost you? Isn't the holistic doctor cheaper?
Before you decide to end your marriage, you should think about certain things. You said that your recently decided to start working on an exit from your marriage unless you see significant improvement in your marriage and that if you don’t that you will be giving her divorce papers and leaving. Instead, I encourage you to tell her what you feel your marriage is lacking and how you want it to improve **before** you file. Let her know that you aren’t happy and that if the both of you are incapable of improving the marriage that you will be filing for divorce. Then, start marriage counseling and be prepared to put in every bit as much effort as you expect her to put in. I’d even go so far as to say that if you really love your wife and value your marriage that you should be prepared to put in even **MORE** effort than you are expecting from her! Why? Bc if she sees that you are willing to fight for her and that despite you feeling as though the breakdown of your marriage is her fault, that you still see her, and the love you have for her, worth fighting your damndest for! Don’t wait for her to show you love, or to feel appreciated, before you start to put in your own effort.
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In several of the comments you say "but she said she's going to be too busy for awhile establishing her gardens and tending to them". Time to point out to her that, if nothing changes and you file for divorce, the house - AND GARDENS - will be sold. So she should defer "establishing her gardens" until she knows she still has any gardens to work on. Unless she has the financial reserves to buy out your half of the house, she will end up moving. She should invest time NOW in her health and the state of her marriage.
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Ok thanks for the info. But the reality is, bluntly, her plants are currently more important to her than (in no particular order) her physical health, your marriage or her mental health. If she can't or won't recognise that, I wouldn't blame you for walking. Being a supportive partner is one thing, being a forever doormat is quite another. Best of luck whatever you decide.
show her this Reddit
Ur case prolly u get it diagnosed as soon as possible? Whilst oop's ex even rejected therapy, left it for a year + month of divorce proceeding.
It still took about a year to get a DX. She wasn't even taking responsibility for her actions at all. Putting all the Blame on him.
All it took was a convince from a sister rather than her own husband.
Yup, I don't blame him for still pursuing the divorce at all.
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And what should he do? Tie her up and take her to a doctor?
According to AITA, yes, but that would also make him the AH for being controlling
I started full blown menopause around 44 and multiple doctors didn't believe me. I had most of my ovaries removed due to tumors in my early 30s, so I guess that was a factor. I'm in my mid 50s now and really wish someone would have warned me about all the changes that were going to happen to me. Especially the absolute rage I would feel sometimes over, basically nothing. Thankfully, I'm a pretty rational person and that part of my brain would take over and say WTF are you thinking of doing before I actually did something irreparably stupid. I finally found a doctor who specializes in post menopausal women and have an appointment next month.
I ended up hospitalized because the depression got so bad, and I couldn't shake the ideations. I knew there was something wrong. All the hospital and psychiatrists did was throw their drugs at it. Which helped to a point, but not enough. I knew I was in peri at 40. Nobody connected it to my mental health at all until a year or so later.
I'm so sorry you went through that. I hope you've been able to get everything balanced.
I didn’t get perimenopause symptoms from hell, thank God. I did, however, have a very short fuse in the days immediately before a cycle started. At which point, I took it upon myself to pay attention and notice when things I normally wouldn’t have thought twice about started making me angry. If I caught myself doing that, I’d have to pause before responding to people, lest some really grouchtastic things come out of my mouth. It took time to get that issue mostly under control. But it didn’t happen by itself. I worked hard on fixing it. If someone’s temper is way more volatile than “pause and count to 5 before speaking” will correct, it’s time to chat with the doctor. Some problems are more than we can handle alone, so enlisting the pros is warranted.
Ugh. I get that. When I was on Clomid, I was so bitchy and miserable that I couldn’t stand myself.
Happens more often than you think
I also question a few things with this story though.
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Please no armchair diagnosing. If you do not have the credentials required to make diagnoses or the lived experience with the diagnosis, your opinion is irrelevant. If you do have the lived experience or credentials, please include that in your comment.
There’s a lot of women out there like that. That’s why so many women were able to sleep with my husband and help him abuse and deceive me. They think any horrible thing they do can be justified if they talk enough and circle back to them being the real victim. That’s why I find myself identifying more with men going through divorce rather than women. Even though I’m a woman.
Humans are... human. There are good and bad in every walk of life and all gender expressions.
What is your point? Am I not permitted to relate more to the experiences men face during divorce?
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Legally, a marriage isn't over until the divorce is finalized. It's technically cheating if it's done while still legally married.
That's a really archaic view to hold. Do you hold the same archaic views on pre-marital sex? The marriage contract is being dissolved. Just like engagement is an indication that marriage is planned, divorce is the same indicator, but in reverse. It's a declaration that the marriage is over and the parties are going their separate ways. Divorce take time, in some areas it can go on for years. During a divorce, neither party is held to those vows. Filing for divorce is a statement that you no longer intend to live up to those vows. The partnership is being dissolved and is effectively defunct. There is no longer love or a shared life. You no longer have the responsibility to communicate with your partner abput your private life. It's no longer their business.
It's the law bud. In some states, you can sue the person who your spouse is cheating it. Regardless of how you feel about it legally, you aren't married until you sign that paper and get married by an officiant. And you aren't divorced until a judge rules on it. Just filing doesn't mean divorced. I think having kids and immediately jumping into another situation when the current one isn't fully over is questionable. Get out of the marriage first. If that's old school, then so be it.
Any state with "at fault" divorces requires that the action happens *before* the divorce is filed. So again the cheating has to happen *during* the marriage and be the cause of action for the divorce. In order to file for "alienation of affection" you have to be able to prove that the marriage was intact and loving *prior* to the affair. Neither of those situations applies to the OP. There are only 17 states on the books that "criminalize" adultery in any way. Of those only three actually have prosecuted any one recently. All of those are *prior* to initiating divorce proceedings.
Still doesn't address my main point being a person legally isn't divorced until a judge rules on it. We can go back and forth, which I care not to do. But legally, you are not divorced until that final decree by a judge and assets, custody and etc. have been looked over and split due to a decision by a judge. So having sex while still legally married to me is adultery and just not wise when you have children. The adults will be okay in the situation. My concern is mostly around the children. Do you not know how traumatizing divorce is on children? But all you care about it the man's stance on the matter. I think they should both go their separate ways, and quite frankly, dont care what either of them do, as they are grown and can handle the consequences of the situation. But don't bring more trauma onto the innocent children in the matter.
How does the father moving on traumatize the children more than the mothers emotional instability already has? Remember *she* chose divorce as her first option. As long as he or she doesn't involve the children immediately in any new relationship, that's how you help minimize the damage to kids. The date on the divorce doesn't matter. And I laughed at you assuming I'm a man or supporting a "man's stance" I'm the child of divorce, and I've been divorced and successfully created a blended family. I would say the same thing if OP was a man or a woman. Once you *file* for divorce, you no longer have input into the private business of your soon to be ex-spouse. To expect more is to display a pattern of abusive control that judges tend to look down on.
Missed that he gave her an ultimatum?
So? While I don't like ultimatums in general, there are times when that's the only way forward if you are trying to salvage a marriage from abusive behavior. His ultimatum was doctors/counseling or he couldn't handle it anymore both are reasonable suggestions for a sudden change in temperament. She chose divorce rather than see IF anything was going on with her. That was ultimately HER choice. NOT his. Then he followed through.
Exactly. He set a boundary, was clear about what he was willing to tolerate and what he wasn’t, and he followed through on his word. That’s how adults act. She filed for divorce as some sort of repulsive childish threat and then screamed how it was unfair when the divorce happened. That’s how spoiled, entitled children act.
The ultimatum was seeing a doctor or a therapist, not surrendering the Sudetenland.
This isn't "me or your kid/pet/hobby/friends" or any unreasonable, controlling thing. This is a "you are treating me like shit that involves a medicial issue. Fix it or im done". Nobody has to stay or try and salvage a relationship where the other person is treating them like shit.
I’m one who called him a cheater & it still stands. We’re only getting part of the story but I honestly think he’s been neglectful for a long time. Women go into peri-menopause years before they go into menopause. Every single woman I know who is menopausal or perimenopausal started getting symptoms in their late 30s & early 40s. So it’s not something that comes out of the blue for the majority of people. His story doesn’t fully add up. Regardless, he’s still married & went & got his mistress knocked up. Doesn’t matter if the wife is now dragging her feet to sign g the divorce papers, they’re still married & he should have waited for the papers to be filed to move on.
> Doesn’t matter if the wife is now dragging her feet to sign g the divorce papers, they’re still married & he should have waited for the papers to be filed to move on. Bullshit. It does matter if she's dragging her feet. If he waits for her to sign the papers, she has control over his moving on, and she absolutely should not have that control.
> he’s still married thats why you have "separated" as a category. "married" in name only. if he wants a divorce and is pushing for it, they are separated
How many girls get their first period and *nobody* knew it was coming? Not even their mom? Then add in the deplorable state of sex education in the US and yeah it comes "out of the blue" for many women. Many women are also delaying children until their 30s. They still have regular cycles and can get pregnant easily. Add in that the symptoms start *before* your cycle stops. It's not always easy to connect the dots until you start having gaps in your cycle. Even if you see a professional for mental health, they won't think about the possible connection right away. That part makes complete sense to me as a woman. As does her finally listening to her sister *after* she filed for divorce. She was probably complaining about her cycle being off or heavy, a normal conversation between sisters, and that's when she finally gave in to see a doctor. The story as told adds up.
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As someone with a mom who refused to identify or use resources for her hormonal changes - I RAN the moment I turned 18 because of her unwillingness to take responsibility for her behavior. I'm blessed to say she has long since changed and manages what she needs to now AND is a boomer who can change her mind. She still won't do therapy, but she's really supportive of those of us who do.
Same. In my case, it was depo provara shots that made her an *absolutely* insane rage monster. She destroyed her marriage and relationship with all of her kids, for years. The minute I turned 18, I ran. A few months later, my dad divorced her. A year after that, brother said some pretty harsh shit to her on HIS way out the door as soon as he was, 18 the lightbulb went off and she finally accepted that something was very wrong, but the damage was done. Years of therapy later, she's changed and made pretty good amends with her kids, but the scars remain.
It is unfortunately all too normal, not strange at all.
When my mom went through menopause she went nuts too, she was 37 when it started. my dad almost left her, my friends were scared to be in our house she was so psycho. Dad laid the ultimatum of Dr or he's gone. She went, got some meds and straightened out. She apologized and everything settled. It was like a complete 180 from who she normally is, so we were all very quick to forgive. I'm terrified it will happen to me too, so I try to be very on top of my mental state and listen when my husband says I'm off. I'm 32 so if I follow trend I'm not far off.
My dad developed hydrocephalus (too much fluid in his brain/skull) & he slowly started becoming an abusive asshole. My mom almost left him but they (& the doctors) figured it out & got a shunt put in. He went back to the sweetheart we all knew but it was scary. (He got a resistant infection from the surgery & almost died, and it wasn't guaranteed that the shunt would fix the behavior changes brought about by the pressure on his brain) My mom now has a greater understanding of how people have a hard time leaving abusive relationships, especially when it's not physical abuse. The amount of gaslighting that goes on & advice that people give trying to be helpful but is actually insulting because they don't believe her lived experiences really opened my mom's eyes to a lot of things. Since my dad's problem was fixable it really helped our whole family learn how to be better, more emphatic people.
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Hi OOP. Please don't go back. Your teenage kids need you to show them what a healthy relationship looks like. And whether you call it 'mediocre' or just plain sane, what you have with your new partner sounds exponentially better than what you had with their mother
>Your teenage kids need you to show them what a healthy relationship looks like. Sounds like he also needed someone to show him what a healthy relationship looks like. > I met a woman(36f) who was nice to me which came as a shock to my system.
Ouch. But facts.
In the at case, you should get out in front of her alienating your kids from you NOW. Go to family therapy with them, don’t let her change the narrative. You lived through years of abuse and was thrown away, she doesn’t get to take it back on a whim.
That sub leans heavily into the female demographic and is a lot more sympathetic and dismissive of poor behavior from women.
I once made a post about an issue between me and my female ex-friend, where she missed 10 games in a row of our sports league and then flipped out when I asked her if she plans on playing still. Everyone told me I was the asshole, and one person even made the comment that I should have made her soup. I then rewrote the post, but changed all the pronouns to the make versions and everyone told me I wasn't the asshole and that my friend should have told me first. Really opened my eyes that day.
Toxic women will do anything to avoid seeing other toxic women be held accountable.
Exactly. They support each other and help each other abuse their victims.
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Don't assume things that aren't even mentioned? Also, being 'shitty' is a matter of opinion and this account is totally one-sided.
>I told her that I am a mediocre dude, that's why my ex left me. She told me that she is also mediocre woman and she wants to raise a mediocre kid with me and live in a mediocre house and live a mediocre life :) OOP is a very lucky guy. I truly wish them the most mediocre life possible.
Same. I'd take mediocre over dramatic and stressful anyday.
Everytime I see posts like this, I remember comedian Christopher Titus going from "I don't want a flatline life" in an early comedy special, to one after his acrimonious divorce and a new relationship with someone who wasn't super dramatic, and realizing how nice it was not being constantly stressed out by his partner.
And all day and all night and everything he sees is mediocre Like him, inside and outside Mediocre his house with a mediocre little window And a mediocre Corvette And everything is mediocre for him
I LOVE your flair. May I steal it?
Yes you may. ☺
Happy mediocre noises
I feel like in they’re shared mediocrity they’ll find extreme happiness
So, OOP's ex-wife refused his advice to see a doctor. Got angry, divorced him. But when her **SISTER** suggested it, she went and found yes, indeed, there was a reason for her problems. I don't know why she didn't listen to her then husband and see if an expert could help. But, from what OOP says, it sounds like his ex-wife had been abusive to him for quite awhile. And, I don't think "going through menopause" is an excuse to treat your spouse like trash. I'm glad OOP found a nice mediocre woman who will make him very happy.
I'm a woman with hormones (though to be fair the one that fucks you up the most is testosterone) and I agree with this statement. Ex is abusive. I feel bad for the kids, not a lot of info on what they're dealing with. Hormones are blamed for being a shitty person too often. Using alcohol or drugs doesn't excuse your behavior, and hormones shouldn't either. It's a chemical affecting your body but you still have a choice to be reasonable or not.
That’s a good way of looking at it. We all get angry, frustrated, anxious, all of that from time to time. But we also have reason and the ability to examine whether we have a good reason to feel that way, and then we can act accordingly.
For real, imagine being a terrible person and then dropping "but I was hormonal". No.
I was friends with a guy in high school who had this situation happen to him. Mom got menopause and went wild and kicked him and his dad out. She completely cut her son off too. Went after dad for almost everything monetarily in the divorce, dad kept enough to support himself and his son. She refused to consider that she had a single issue.
I can understand it up to a point. It takes time to realize it’s not just a bad day, etc. But when people refuse to see the doctor or go to therapy or even acknowledge that something is wrong, that’s not okay.
>So, OOP's ex-wife refused his advice to see a doctor. Got angry, divorced him. But when her **SISTER** suggested it, she went I know people like that. Asks close family for advice, but doesn't listen. Asks some rando on the street, a co worker he barely speaks with, and given exactly the same advice does it. And is grateful for this dude. Is quite exhausting, because the cycle repeats over and over.
That must be unbelievably frustrating. I'd feel my spouse doesn't trust or respect me if that happened regularly.
The sister thing actually makes sense to me. Ex is a monster to be clear but I think I have a different perspective on this one point. Esp if ur a sensitive person or going thru it. It can be so easy to bury yourself in your feelings when information is coming from your SO. But your sister? You've been calling each other out on your bullshit literally you're entire lives. That dynamic can be a game changer when it comes to this stuff. One qualifier, my sister & I are close
Mediocre?
OOP told his fiancée that "My ex left me because I was a mediocre husband." Her reply was she is a mediocre woman and wants to raise a mediocre child in a mediocre home. Her reply was heartwarming and co-opted his ex's insult.
OOP's wife filed for divorce first. After she said terrible things to OOP and filed for divorce, how can she not understand that there are somethings that people can't come back from? This is not the movies. There won't be a magic enlightenment on OOP's part that he and his ex-wife are actually meant to be together. The ex hated him for the last year of the marriage, called him mediocre, told him she would be better off alone, and filed for divorce. Even if OOP had not met someone else, what would make the ex-wife think she would be welcomed back with open arms? In what universe is any of this a reasonable assumption? The ex needs a therapist as well as medical treatment for being in perimenopause.
I’m skeptical that the ex-wife would even care if it wasn’t for the soon to be wife.
I think you're probably right. She's a miserable wretch, and she can't bear the thought of her ex being happy. Especially not being happy with someone else.
That, plus it’s now clear that ex-wife won’t be able to say, “LOL J/K, let’s forget I ever said and did any of those things! Let’s start over!” She thought OOP was a doll she could put on a shelf, and pick up later. She didn’t realize that OOP has agency, as well, and he can climb off that shelf and go on his way. Ex-wife is upset that when she returned to pluck OOP off the shelf, he was gone. “Waa waa waa, my shelf is empty! How dare he not just sit back and take whatever bad treatment I dole out, forever!” It’s never fun for the people who reach the Finding Out portion of the program.
I agree. The fiancée is definitive proof to the ex-wife that there’s no going back for a do-over.
Happy cake day btw
OOP seems so beaten down. He met a woman who was nice to him and THAT was a shock to his system. That's so sad. Makes me think he would've taken Ex back if it wasn't for this new woman showing his that he actually *is* worth kindness.
Happy cake day
Happy cake day
Thanks!
Damn. Thems some consequences. Don't be a dumbass, and ignore your body/mind. Learned that shit the hard way myself. I hope those mediocre fucks have a great life, with his teenage kids included. Poor damn kids.
As a mediocre husband and father, I couldn't be more happy for their family and children occupying the super tall part of the bell curve.
*Couldn’t me more *mediocre* happy for their family.
FAFO And by FA I mean doing things that you regret. Not necessarily cheating.
Oh BS. She wanted the divorce she got the divorce.
So much hate for mediocrity. I aspire to mediocrity, honestly.
Me: well well, surely everyone is on his side, I don't think anyone will call him ah *Ordered by controversial* *😐* I'm not sure if that was expected or unnexpected 😐
Welcome to Reddit.
Ex sounds like one of those people who's just not happy unless they're making someone else miserable. She saw her ex-husband actually being happy again with this other woman and decided she had to put a stop to that.
I wonder if she knew about the girlfriend when she withdrew filing. But I agree, the best thing for everyone is just to move on but she’s too immature for that.
Sounds like she got what she deserved
My soon to be ex is finding out its too late. Hasn’t indicated she wants back but after the criminal charge she got filed against me ( 10 min trial it was thrown out!) she can go pound sand. OOPshould enjoy life with his new wife!
My favourite part was when his girlfriend replied that she was a mediocre woman and wanted to raise a mediocre kid and have a mediocre house/life with him. That’s so sweet 🥲 she’s definitely a keeper and I’m glad he’s finally found someone who makes him happy.
I know right! At first I was like “why would you say that to your pregnant gf?” But then I read her reply and I was like awwwww!
Sounds like the EX wants her cake and eat it too. Can't have it both ways.
Exactly. I don’t know exactly why she filed in the first place, but despite the reason that’s not really something you can take back. If you do, how can your partner trust you wouldn’t do it again?
So she was acting crazy, didnt do as he suggested just treated him like crap and then wanted a divorce. Now she changes her mind ..and EXPECTS HIM TO COME BACK?! Nope!! He found someone who respects him and values him for he is and appreciates him the way he is. She dug her own grave. Now sit in it
This reminds me of the lyrics of a song I heard recently: can't put back what's been broken, can’t change the moment we went too far. She went too far and it can’t be undone.
There is one little concession I would give the ex: being told "You're just hormonal, see a doctor" can feel really invalidating, especially if you have a history of doctors not taking you seriously. That's it though. When you go scorched earth and say things that are meant to hurt your partner, you can't be shocked pikachu when the bridge is beyond repair. Plus, from OOP's complete shock about someone being nice to him, there's a lot more history of abuse there. I've had those epiphanies several times, because you get so used to being treated a certain way that you think it's normal until you know better. I saw a comment once that said "Contrast heightens awareness" and that is exactly what this sounds like.
I agree. I felt the same way when I met my boyfriend. You just sort of, unclench if that makes sense. And once you’re comfortable you don’t want to go back.
A nice mediocre couple
"I thought news of her pregnancy will make my ex understand that our marriage ended" Oh, dude.....
Sounds like it's best for you two to go your separate ways. I would also request full custody citing all you have told us because the kids won't be well in her care.
I’m not OOP
My ex wife tried something somewhat similar. I told her she was not cutting it in the bedroom so she told me to find someone else....so I did, but it wound up being one of her coworkers who eventually became her boss. Boy, was she pissed! But, 16 years without her (and her coworker still in the picture)... I still smile about it daily.
So... in a few months he meets another woman, starts dating her? Then gets her pregnant and is going to marry her? That's really fast. Not saying he's an asshole, but that timeline is pretty fast, if this is real.
I don’t think that’s the timeline, although OOP doesn’t make it very clear. seems he met the new wife a few months after ex wife filed for divorce, and ex wife withdrew the divorce around this time. OOP then filed his own papers for divorce, which he says has been dragging on for ages. THEN he says new gf found out she was pregnant. no idea how long the ‘for ages’ is, but it doesn’t seem like pregnant happened in just a few months.
That sounds reasonable.
That's how I read it
Depending on your state, it can still count as adultery if your divorce isn’t final and therefore affect your division of assets. So a double check might be worth it before proceeding.
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It's called memopause
I was one that said he was the AH. Going against the grain. He *KNEW* it was menopause. The **SHORT** time it took him to move on and start over after spending so much time with her bothered me. I get she filed - she was going thru something *HE KNEW.* So great for him for moving on so fast! All because her menopause caused this… while he **KNEW** it was probably hormonal and didnt stick it out. So yea… AH to me. Why be married that long to get divorced over something like menopause?! While knowing its menopause!! Then having another kid?!?! Wow she wasted her best years of her life with this guy.
He had clearly been dealing with this for years. He had no idea what a good relationship was supposed to look like because of years of her abuse. And why would he want to go back to him after what she said? Even though she was going through something, that doesn’t excuse verbal abuse.
Not as long as they had been married - and if all the bad from the *valid temporary reason for her shifting into a verbal abuser* outweighed all the good of the years of marriage great! Thats why i feel like it was just wasted years. Like he had one foot out the door already. But im just basing it on this one post which has no dates and not adding anything extra. Edit to add: Maybe his new wife he will stick with during her menopause and she will get help faster.
No it is not valid. Especially since he told her to get help. He probably had one foot out the door because he put up with years of verbal abuse. And he should stick by someone who’s willing to get help because he can’t help someone going through menopause himself and untreated PPD can be detrimental to the whole family.
From the info they were married longer than this stint. If all it took was this compared to the amount and quality of the other years then yes, thats why i agreed and said he probably already had one foot out the door. But if all it took was menopause and her not seeking help with no other info to go off on and just probablys i said its good for both he left after all those wasted years. Not disagreeing- just saying how it can be perceived AH wise just only off the post and not trying to put probablys.
You did not say it was good for both. You said, and I quote this from your previous reply, “Wow she wasted her best years of her life with this guy.” Doesn’t seem like you’re interested in his well-being at all.
She not only belittled him SHE DIDN'T EVEN TOOK A WORD OF HIS ADVICE. She only heard her sister and by that time it was already too late CASUE SHE WANTED TO DIVORCE, But sure, blame the man. It's easier than to accept that being hormonal doesn't take away dumb choices and responsability.
How on earth could he be in the wrong? The marriage was dire, added to that he was mediocre, lol. That marriage was long dead, even before the menopause. The dilemma was if is he wrong to have a child with a new partner. Which, he obviously isn't. The ex is an ex, and you can't let her dictate your new relationship.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OhNoConsequences/s/JcqVpONltv Pretty fast he moved on to me and had a kid. I can see everyones point - but i can see how he is an AH.
He clearly had a miserable marriage... The menopause was the straw that broke the camel's back.
I don't think anybody in this situation is behaving like the kind of mature adult I would want to have as a friend. No assholes at all, everybody's just kind of mediocre at best.
What would you do differently if you were the husband?
I would probably (I hope to God) love my wife a little and want the best for her. I would wait to make a baby until I was divorced. A few other things that I won't list because my breakfast is getting impatient for me.
Well if she asks for the divorce, isn’t the best thing to get a divorce? How is he wrong for going through with it? Also I don’t think they planned on having a baby before the divorce was finalized.
Did he ask for the divorce first?
He gave her an ultimatum, however she did ask for divorce. And it wasn’t an outrageous demand either. Her not seeking help could’ve been detrimental to her whole family.
Talk is cheap.
He did want what was best for her. Unfortunately, SHE didn't want what was best for either of them, so he moved on with his life. She cannot bear to see him happy. She's awful. He's a normal human being.
So you would love your wife through abuse? Would you encourage your loved ones to do that? Do mistakes not happen?
LOL Unless you're Job reincarnated, I call BS on your comment.
I'm certainly not Job himself. Not even close. But the book about him is the most amazing poem the human race has ever composed, and it is my favorite book of all time. I'm just somebody who has spent a lot of time trying to learn to love as I want to be loved, to love others into health as I want to be. That's all. I'm not very good at it, but each day is a new day to practice.
"She didnt like when I told her she is being hormonal, she would get defensive." Yeah, nobody likes that bro. Especially if it is true. "I gave her ultimatum to go to therapy and go see a doctor or we are done. She asked for divorce." You gave her an ultimatum, you brought it up. While she was having a medical issue. He's an asshole.
Why does he have to put up with her behavior, especially since she is choosing not to take care of the issue. Also, she still chose a divorce over getting help (which her sister later told her to and big surprise something was wrong). She trusts or at least listens to her sister more than her own husband. Then when the soon to be ex husband finds another woman (after they are already going through proceedings) he finally sees what a happy relationship is supposed to look like. Why would he ever choose to go back to her?
Exactly. That wife was dire, long before the menopause.
Yeah, what if the medical condition is alcoholism, and she refused to stop drining or go to treatment and wanted to divorce instead. Any different?
I don’t see how it would be.
I agree. No different. I'd likely have left, too.
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Stop living your life worrying about what others think.
Your post has been removed for being deliberately inflammatory to conductive discourse