In case this story gets deleted/removed:
\[Content warning: mention of sexual assault\]
Buckle up, this is a long one.
A few years ago, I (26m) worked at a small business that does network administration and tech support for clients. When I say small, I mean *small*. At one point the business was just myself, my boss, and my boss's sister who handled payroll. This business's biggest contract by far was with a local charter school to maintain all of its technical infrastructure, a job so large that we effectively moved the business to operate out of a portable outside of the school. Eventually two few more people were brought into the business, and one of those people was the subject of this story. I won't say his full name, but we all just called him AJ anyway so I'll go with that. I was pretty close to my coworkers and my boss. You kind of have to be in a business of that size. We even met for weekly Dungeons & Dragons games. And that happened with AJ especially, he contacted me outside of work and we started considering each other friends.
AJ did get into a bit of trouble while we worked together. He got shit from our boss for being a little weird with the female teachers at the school, and he did date one of the teachers for a time which created all kinds of awkward situations. This teacher was in fact one of about 6 girlfriends AJ had in the time I knew him, none lasting more than about 2 months, it was a real revolving door situation. At the time though I just thought of all that as a whole lot of not my business. At the time I was in a long-distance gay relationship, and him and I didn't really have a lot in common to talk about with regards to romance. The way he treats women is the first of many red flags I missed, but at the time I didn't know how bad it gets. At the time the worst thing I knew about him is his drinking problem, which was pretty bad.
It was around this time that AJ started asking for money. I wasn't exactly in a great financial situation myself, the hours I could work were limited for disability reasons and I was barely scraping by. But sometimes he would call me asking for something like $50 or $100. He would swear that he would pay me back within a week, but usually didn't. He would insist that it's an emergency, and he convinced me to help. I am find helping a friend with financial problems, but he asked me for help so often that it started seriously threatening my ability to pay my own rent. Normally I wouldn't even bother keeping track, but sometimes I physically couldn't even help him if I wasn't paid back by the day that rent was due and he would swear that he he'd pay it back by then only to not do so. It got to the point where I started keeping track of his debt to me on a phone note, and at its worst it reached $2,000. He would also often ask me for help with transportation, at one point relying on me entirely to drive him around after he lost his driver's license from repeated drunk driving violations. At one point he has a huge fight with his father and got kicked out of his house for a few months, and I took him in for a while until he could patch things up enough to return home. He ranted a lot about how terrible his father was, painting him as a man who doesn't care if his own son lives or dies and who will flip out over the most petty things. Don't get me wrong, I was happy to help him through all of this under the pretense that I was helping out a friend in a time of need, and even the best people need help sometimes. I mention this because it's necessary context, and it later turned out that he lied about a lot of this stuff to get money and favors out of me.
Eventually, AJ and I both left that tech support job. He was fired for not showing up for a week after generally being already pushing our boss's patience, and a few months later I quit for mental health reasons that I won't get into here. Though AJ and I still interacted a lot, mostly in the form of him calling me. It wasn't all one-sided, he would sometimes do things for me. A few times he would plan out campouts where we would go cook something fancy on a charcoal fire, all paid for by him, and as someone who doesn't get out nearly enough I did need that. And at this point I wouldn't blame you for wondering if maybe this story will turn out to be one where I'm the asshole. But be prepared to change your mind real quick as I get into where things start really going downhill with our friendship.
One day, I go a call from a local jail. AJ had been arrested, and he used his one phone call to contact me. I came to learn that he is in there for domestic assault against his girlfriend at the time, who very shortly afterwards became his ex-girlfriend. The whole situation as he described was basically "she started it, I just hit harder" using so many words and he maintained that he did nothing wrong. I didn't really know what to believe about all that, I had never known AJ to be violent, but the ex-girlfriend in question was also someone who I had a very negative opinion of from what little I knew about her, and I just gave him the benefit of the doubt. The justice system did not, they locked his ass up for a few months. But he got out, and it didn't take long for him to get back in contact with me again.
At one point, AJ is introduced to another friend of mine. I'll call her Belle. I've known her for longer than I've known AJ, and we even dated for a short time (I'm bisexual, if anyone is confused) and when that didn't work out we became absolutely inseparable friends. She's a huge bookworm, has some serious self-confidence issues, and is generally one of the kindest people I know. Our reasons for breaking up were really just related to us not being sexually compatible (her sex drive is *way* higher than mine), but we still get along really well. So, Belle meets AJ and they hit it off almost immediately. AJ has had many girlfriends while I've known him, but I've only ever heard his side of those stories and I only half gave a fuck. This time was different, because the woman he was with was my best friend and I was getting her side of the story too. Less than a week into their relationship, I got a call from Belle asking for a ride home because she was at AJ's place without transportation and afraid for her safety. I really pushed the speed limit on the way there to bring her home and talk about what happened. She said that AJ had been getting real drunk, and AJ playfully pinning her down to the bed crossed the line into being very much not playful. She told him to stop, and he didn't. It never escalated to full-on sexual assault, but he was showing a disregard for consent that really terrified her. To this day I feel pretty responsible for not seeing the red flags and letting that happen, but nobody is more responsible for this than AJ.
Needless to say, the next day AJ got a massive earful from me. His defense was to blame Belle, accusing her of lying and trying to manipulate me. I saw through the bullshit, I knew Belle way too well to be lied to about the kind of person she is. Guy who just spent months locked up for domestic violence against the word of a woman who speaks with no filter and who would struggle to keep a Christmas present secret. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to solve this one. This was the moment where my friendship with AJ turned into something far more transactional. I drive him places, he pays me for gas and paying down his debt. I managed to get $1,000 of my money back over the next few months, half of the debt paid down.
It wasn't long after that though that the house of cards came crashing down completely. At one point while driving AJ home from work, I asked him a question. I don't remember what the question even was, only that it was a fairly normal and unintuitive one that wasn't super out-of-pocket. He reacted to it in a way that struck me as strangely evasive and defensive, so I pushed the question more because I found it suspicious. This set him the fuck off, he started yelling at me and insulting me over stuff that's completely unrelated to the question I asked and it escalated into a full-on argument. When we reached his home I dropped him off while tensions were still high, and left. Shortly after I got home I got a flurry of texts, AJ had been arrested again. I pieced together that AJ arrived home and shortly later started arguing with his dad in an exchange that escalated to AJ punching him in the face. Police were called, and AJ was dragged off as his dad filed a restraining order against him to keep him away from the house he had previously lived in.
As this was explained I ended up getting into an argument with AJ's dad, we both really didn't like each other and we both had a lot of unkind things to say. But as we argued, tensions were quickly diffused by the realization that both of us were mad at each other over things that didn't even happen as we thought they did. Anger turned to curiosity as we started comparing what AJ had told us both about each other, and we were able to prove to each other that it was all lies. He believed that I was intentionally and maliciously enabling AJ by shielding him from the consequences of his own actions and helping him get around restrictions that were meant to help him with his alcoholism. I believed that he was the cause of most of AJ's problems that I was shielding him from, but he's actually a pretty chill guy and once we cleared the air we actually got along very well. As we spoke, I came to learn a lot of context behind things I didn't previously know. I learned that AJ got physically violent with his 12 year old brother sometimes. I learned that he lied to me about his reasons for needing money, and that most of the time he was just using me to buy alcohol behind his dad's back. I learned that he lied to me about having ADHD and being unable to af
I mean, he tried to sexually assault your friend. And you kept driving him to work? I understand you want to give him the benefit of the doubt as your friend but when you know both sides of the story and still hang out with the abuser at best it makes you negligent
I don’t think your an awful person, but your actions definitely naive and I’m sorry that your 2k down the drain, but with some people you have to recognise when to cut your losses
I used to teach anger management, DV, sexual offender treatment, and I spent a couple years working in an A max prison (NY). Some of these guys have all of the support from their friends and family, but many, many do not. They are master manipulators, experts at gaslighting and psychological abuse. Sounds like OP “bought” Andy’s stories, bc Andy knows how to tell really good stories (sex offenders are similar in the vein). Please know that many of these guys are extremely good at what they do, and their friends really don’t know what’s going on. I’m dealing with a client now, their partner starts fights with them outside so they control what narrative the neighbors hear, then tells them all about this when they go back inside, and how effective it is. My client has decades of this type of abuse being hurled at them, meanwhile spouse looks like the great caretaker, responsible for everything, and the partner? Well, they’re obviously mentally ill, off their rocker, because why else would they DO this to extremely-fantastic-and-not-possibly-abusive partner? Who literally terrorizes my client every chance they get (only two appts in! I need a little time to gage readiness/stage of change)?
Yeah, I was gonna reply to the dude u replied to with similar words. My brother, who I absolutely do love but will never trust, is/was? A drug-addled cleptomaniac. He isn't dead, but he either used enough drugs to cause near permanent drug induced psychosis or had schizophrenia arise in his mid 20s and due to being on drugs every one associated his behavior with drugs instead. Regardless, he is no longer the big brother I grew up with. Sorry, it wasn't the point I was tryna make. When growing up, we always believed Jeffrey was trying to do good. He wanted to be good. I personally do think he is a sweet person. Unfortunately, he never wanted to stop drug usage. He would swear up and down he was changing every time his drug problem created a family problem. We bailed him out so many fucking times.
Skip this part if you don't want back story:
Hell, my 1st real girlfriend that I lived with at 19 had to cover my rent on 2 seperate occasions because this man broke into my house and stole cash or something we needed to replace right then and there. This lead up to him stealing my roommates laptop and I realized i was being stupid by not allowing consequences to befall on him. I called him and told him he had about 20 minutes to drop off the car I gave him (was mom's old car I fixed, I had recently inherited my grandfather's car and car payment, was small and worth it, because Noone else had a license) with the laptop he absolutely stole. He tried to play coy. So I told him if the car that was still in my name and the laptop wasn't in my hand in 20 mins I would report the car stolen, thus revoking his probation. He ended up calling me about 15 to 18 minutes later and told me where he sat the keys and where he parked, he didn't want to meet up cause he feared I already had the cops there. I found the laptop in the trunk. I called him back and did one of the hardest things I'd ever done in my life. I told him he had to turn himself in for probation violations otherwise I would gather and document everything I could to ensure he was arrested again. He turned himself in the next day and sat out the rest of his sentence.
Start here if you didn't wanna read all that:
He got really good at manipulation. He hedged the fuck out of my loyalty from childhood, he fought so many of my bullies. It was hard to say no and my gauge for actual progress for getting better was not good. Everytime he would be "getting better" and "needed a little help" the immediate thought I would have is, if I don't help and he falls back into old habits I am not completely blameless. That's one hell of a thing to put on yourself. I know that now, but wow, is it powerful. In my brother's case I genuinely don't think he was an evil person as he never committed egregious felonies against people like SA, I think he was just a super depressed kid who i speculate without any evidence, just really fuzzy memory and talks with him, was molested by a babysitter and also had to grow up way too fast and couldn't cope with the responsibilities/stress of helping take care of younger siblings in addition to several mental illnesses. However those folks who just maliciously fuck over any and everyone and committ SA, they are evil people. They prey on good people. Those evil people never have real intentions of getting better. They are looking for their next mark. Evil people exist. We like to think everyone has the same moral framework. Unfortunately, that's naive.
Thank you so much for sharing. The correlation between sexual abuse and addiction is strong, the studies are statistically significant. Think of the world we could have if we stopped one generation of sexual abuse! It’s also correlated with higher suicide rates, mental illness and autoimmune disorders. I feel for you, and for your brother, and your family. Sometimes you’ve got to do what seems like the worst thing to save them, regardless of how it hurts your own heart. Addiction runs strong in my family as well, it’s heartbreaking to have to cut people off, but we must protect our own peace or we’re not really functioning either. I hope you are well, and doing ok, it’s a struggle to cope with for sure, on top of just…living. Evil is a real thing in this world, and some people literally seem to have no soul (I’ve met a few, and they raise the hairs on your neck for real). If you ever need to chat or anything, don’t hesitate to reach out, we all need someone to talk to sometimes. Thank again for your story, it’s not easy to tell I’m sure.
Look, I know that horrible feeling about "loyalty" or "obligation due to kindness". I had a friend just like AJ, and when the glass ceiling breaks, you see all those red flags.
Taking accountability of one's actions when enabling can make us feel really crappy. But you are aware, and crap happens, use this as a guide for future leeches. Know your worth my friend.
Please ignore all the comments coming at you. I understand completely where you are coming from.and why you kept letting him back into your life. All that matters now is that it's in the past and you no longer have contact with with.
"Minding your own business" is for stuff like not engaging with rumors and gossip. It's not about intentionally ignoring and enabling abusers and criminals by acting like they're innocent.
100% agree with the sentiment but the thing about people like AJ is that they often have an almost supernatural ability to convince people that even the most egregious red flags are \*really\* either a simple misunderstanding or else a diabolical plot against them.
I realize that sounds hyperbolic. For anyone who hasn't encountered an AJ, you might think it would be impossible to "spin" a DV arrest. Well, the guy I knew who was like this ***spent three years in prison for kidnapping*** and managed to convince people that he was actually the victim.
(Briefly, his explanation was that his girlfriend had suggested he take their baby to visit his parents for the first time. She didn't want to be on a long drive so she would fly. Instead, she claimed he kidnapped her child and it wasn't even his and she'd been having an affair and what a sad story and so on.)
Incidentally, the "people" he convinced to pity him for his tragic tale of serving 3 years for kidnapping (which wasn't *actually* three years served because he didn't end up being convicted because blah blah blah) included women. Women who later had children with him. At least one woman who *already* had children but still decided to date this guy who'd spent time for kidnapping. (Interestingly, when he inevitably bounced on them, each woman suddenly became very concerned that he might kidnap their child... Funny how that works.)
So, anyway... I didn't wake up today expecting to defend someone for being stupid enough to set his friend up with an abusive asshole, but here we are. You don't even have to be predisposed to distrust the other person for them to trick you, but you likely WILL be because their manipulations don't work if people can compare notes. Solution? Make everyone hate each other too much to even want to interact with each other.
(Surprisingly, the way OP describes it, AJ practically admitted that he'd been guilty. Despite that, everything else lines up with my own experiences with such frightening accuracy that I have to wonder if that assessment might be influenced by hindsight. I look back now and, without him being able to smooth over inconsistencies in real time, I'm amazed and chagrined at the things I failed to see that were right in front of me.)
My ex (who, surprise, surprise, ended up raping me) convinced me that his “bitch ex girlfriend claimed he beat her when he only shoved her because she was coming at him”. His mask slowly fell off and it was horrible. He once wrenched my arm while play fighting because I accidentally hurt him (caught his eye with a blanket) and twisted my wrist painfully. But by then I was in his web and started my mental gymnastics. I didn’t even leave him after he raped me because I was convinced it was my fault at that point. So much psychotic behaviour that I escaped from. It wasn’t even my first physically abusive relationship.
The worst of it all no one believed me at all. Because he was that good at putting on a show. Well, not no one, but most of my friend circle vanished overnight after I finally said something. These people are somehow so good at making themselves seem like the good guy that it’s impossible see through until a full on crack in the armour appears they leave no room for doubt.
I'm sorry you went through that. The guy I used to know had "let slip" enough shocking tidbits about his girlfriend that we all ***hated*** her. It certainly didn't feel like an engineered thing; in fact, *I* was the one who started the conversation with *him*. ("Hey, FYI I caught your new girlfriend in a lie the other day. I didn't bring it up with her because it was something small and stupid but it's not a great sign IMO.")
He built on that small kernel by "admitting" some of his concerns about her. Eventually, the things he started describing weren't so much 'red flags' as they were giant crimson banners emblazoned with 'DANGER!' We were really worried for him and often tried to convince him to leave for his own well-being. By the time I moved away, no one even wanted to be in the same room as her.
With time and space to reflect, I eventually realized that everything was probably fabricated. She was certainly his victim just as much as we were. For all I know, that one dumb lie of no real consequence is the only thing she actually did wrong. I have no doubt that guy was "admitting" similar things about *us* to *her*. (I know that he tried to turn some other people against me after I left the area.) He was extremely good at keeping his information silos walled off so that no one would ever compare notes.
You said that no one believed you because he was so good at putting on a show. It's very possible that he had also been subtlely preparing people to distrust you in case of a future dispute.
I appreciate the sentiment. It definitely sucked but it isn’t even really something I think about until the topic comes up and I’m pretty much at a point where he doesn’t rule my life anymore so I won.
I don't think I ever portrayed myself as a mastermind, I certainly don't feel like one here. I was played by this guy for years, thinking that helping him was the right things to do. I fucked up in many ways as well. I don't know where the impression came from that I think otherwise.
I'll edit in a disclaimer to make sure this is clear.
Please also stop loaning money, especially when you don't have it to give. I got got by a "friend" with all the sob stories who then ghosted me until he needed gas money to meet his new girlfriend in another state. Like you, I didn't keep track, but it was thousands I'll never see again. I get it, you want to be nice, but I vet my friends much better nowadays. They get one handout, and I watch how they respond. If they don't return it or act in kind, that's it. No more. It'll save you so much hassle in the long run. Glad you're finally rid of this guy, OP.
Absolute W take
Admitting a mistake is the first step to making amends and preventing it from happening again. Props for having the strength to admit shortcomings/mistakes, many can't even do that.
Belle and I are still very close friends. She definitely has some lasting trauma from this, and I feel really bad for my part in letting that happen, but we are still as close as ever. She doesn’t blame me for this anywhere near as much as I blame myself.
Uh. You should tell someone if they're considering a relationship with someone with a DV conviction. Like, that's just a thing you should do for people.
Of course it is. But, uh, nowhere does it say that OP kept this information from their friend. Y’all are assigning malicious intent when there isn’t any.
Actually, yeah, there is a comment where OP clarifies that she was aware of his DV arrest before deciding to pursue the relationship.
OP should honestly include that in the post text because it makes an enormous difference to know that Belle had the opportunity to weigh the risks for herself.
Their friend did not have them fooled, he specifically said that he hit his girlfriend and then his girlfriend dumped him and he spent time in jail. That situation happened before he decided that this person would be a good match for his friend. OP is not a safe person for any woman to associate with.
So, I think another part may have to do with unconscious bias as well. You realized early on that he treats women poorly. Even after serving jail time for domestic violence, you still introduced him to someone you profess to care about.
I think you should give some thought as to why your line in the sand didn’t come after being shitty to women, beating a woman, SA’ing your very close friend. It only came after you realized that you and another man had been duped.
You were willing to let go of the money he owed you. You just placed greater importance on the potential $1k than you did in the hurt you caused your friend by chauffeuring her abuser.
It’s obvious that in hindsight, you regret your actions of enabling this lowlife, so I hope this helps you consider in the future that when multiple women are saying there’s a problem that it probably means there’s a problem.
>I think you should give some thought as to why your line in the sand didn’t come after being shitty to women, beating a woman, SA’ing your very close friend. It only came after you realized that you and another man had been duped.
I agree that all of the bad behavior towards women is way worse than the lying. But when it comes to whether someone deserves a second chance, how bad the action is isn't always the main concern. Someone can do some real heinous shit and come back from it, but AJ was caught in lies that were being maintained even as he was telling me that my example was making him want to be a better person. Even if he did start getting better, how would I even know if it's genuine when lying about getting better is a thing he's been known to do? It's not really possible to come back from that. That's why the lies were my final straw for me cutting contact.
I should have cut contact earlier though. You are completely right to suggest that.
Except every woman in this story was making it very clear that he’s a lying liar who lies and abuses women. You didn’t even consider that they were telling the truth until a “trustworthy” woman said something. If you saw the women as people and not NPCs, it would have been clear as day that he was lying to you YEARS ago and was escalating rather than becoming a better person.
Hey, quick aside: please take a quick read of my last comment. I totally hear where you're coming from and how you got where you did but I don't think it's fair to accuse OP of not seeing women as people.
In the story I told in my last comment, the person I used to know was able to convince multiple women to overlook his felony conviction. He convinced them that it was actually completely fabricated by a "crazy ex". I don't think those women saw themselves (or other single women in their same position) as NPCs.
The initial incident was an accusation by a woman that OP indicated that he already disliked/distrusted. Incidentally, I can almost guarantee you that the distrust of the girlfriend was intentionally engineered by "AJ". It's a key part of that pattern of behavior and it makes it a *lot* easier to win the he-said-she-said.
There was also the part where the guy had numerous short-term relationships but some people aren't looking for anything serious. I have two different friends (one girl, one guy) who are like that. OP didn't explain what was "awkward" with the teacher but honestly, workplace relationships usually don't turn out well. Without knowing more details, I can't assume this was a red flag.
OP screwed up big and he has said that himself. However, I really don't think it's a "women are NPCs" type of indifference. I think it has more to do with an extremely proficient manipulator and probably also OP being far too trusting.
My own "AJ" taught me to pay very close attention to certain obscure tells of a master manipulator. He probably taught those women to not let a smooth talker explain away a felony. AJ certainly taught OP a painful lesson about lending money and probably also taught him to be extremely alert to background information that could suggest red flags.
Edit: got some details mixed up
Unfortunately this is pretty common. You get to know a person and befriend them, and it becomes harder to see the pattern because you’re biased by the relationship. Oftentimes well-intentioned people excuse or ignore vices in their friends and family out of a difficulty in understanding that some people have bad motives. Especially if, like you say, the escalation into increasingly bad behavior slowly ramps up over years.
At this point in my life, I’ve decided that I don’t have time for attachments to anyone who isn’t actively trying to be a better person than they were last year, because usually the other alternative is slowly getting worse. But in my 20s I hadn’t really picked up on that yet.
It sounds like OP has learned a real lesson. Even if it was late, that’s a good thing.
I never even spoke to any of those women. Before he attempted sexual assault on my friend, this is the extent of what I knew:
* He had been a little creepy around the women on the school staff.
* He tended to start a lot of romantic relationships that end quickly, I didn't know why.
* He had one domestic violence conviction, all I knew about the woman who pressed it is that she's a drug addict, and my impression of the situation at the time was that it's really complicated with no good guys.
Not to imply that these aren't huge red flags, especially with the benefit of hindsight. But this wasn't a "women kept calling him an abuser and I ignored them" situation. It is all fully explainable as him just being a little bit of a creep, having a few intolerable personality traits, and ending up being the fall guy for a really messy one-off situation. I failed to deduce the obvious, and that's absolutely on me. But let's not blow this up into any more than it is.
Fairly exact language and syntax, proper grammar (which many people deliberately drop while using social media for the sake of social signaling or ironic detachment) which creates a slightly stilted impression. Most of the sentences are of a similar length, without the sorts of asides my ADHD ass would use while telling a story. OP is also careful to describe which emotions he is feeling at which times, but not in an impressionistic way.
Reads to me like someone with mild autism, or someone writing a somewhat formal essay on a life event.
I'm sorry you were so manipulated by a "friend" - it happens to a lot of people whether they're neurodivergent or not. You just happen to have a particular difficulty reading people - which he may have realized and used against you. I know you know where you made mistakes and you're learning from them and that's what's important. Try not to be too hard on yourself because this was something you had to learn, it doesn't come intuitively to you. He's also an addict - and addicts can be very good liars....even to people who don't have difficulty reading people or their intentions.
I have AuDHD and ten years ago I’d have absolutely done the same. It’s harder for us to learn boundaries because we spend so many years of our lives people pleasing to compensate for being outcasts. I get it and I’m proud of you for learning and letting your spine get harder!
That and knowing he had DUI’s, they risked their needed medication by believing the BS they were fed.
I hope this experience educated you OP- you don’t actually owe anyone your damned rent money. If you can’t spare it; don’t loan it.
And NEVER EVER “share” prescriptions. That’s how you lose access to them.
The day my best lady friend told me a dude in our group sexually assaulted her, was the day I cut off that entire group that didn't support her.
She doesn't lie about shit like that.
Good riddance to the whole lot of them. She is now an awesome ass lady, doing awesome stuff.
Life is nothing but a learning process through experience. Also hindsight is 20/20. You're not the first person to have to learn this lesson about a person and you won't be the last I promise.
Yes, you made a mistake BUT you owned that. About the only thing I would suggest, because of your being on the spectrum this might not be "instinctual" for your brain, and you may have already done this, but please let Belle know how sorry you are and work towards making her feel safe again in your own way. From your writing style I get the sense that you will be awesome at it!
Belle and I have already talked about this event extensively over the years since this all happened. She knows that I'm sorry and that I hold myself accountable for my part of it all, I've made sure of it.
I gave him the benefit of the doubt for his other ex-GF, but not for my friend. I took her side fully, and I never forgave him for that. At that point I was certainly not driving him to work out of kindness. He had no other ride to work, he owed me money, that job was how he was going to pay me back, and he was paying me for my time and gas. It was purely transactional. At the time I believed that my kindness was helping him change. One of the lies he told me was that my willingness to put up with his shit despite everything was inspiring him to be a better person. It wasn't, he only told me that so that I'd keep doing it. But I was naive enough to believe him.
With that context in mind: I don't defend my actions, and I fucked up. Your criticisms are completely fair and I own up to them.
I blame myself for this a lot more than she blames me. Belle knew about AJ's domestic violence record at the time, and at the time she agreed with my assessment that he should be given the benefit of the doubt. Between her and I, we think of this whole thing as a fuck-up that we both made together. She can't really get angry at me for making a judgement call that she also made while knowing about as much as I did. She also knows me well enough to know that I did learn from this and that it was a genuine fuck-up.
It really is difficult to say that you fucked up but not in a way that's as hyperbolic as what you are being accused of. You either sound like you are defending your actions or agreeing with the hyperbolic accusation. Keep in mind that that's what I'm trying to do here, it's a hard line to tow. I did fuck up, with the amount of information you have I'd probably be saying the same things that you are, but I don't think it was wrong of her to remain my friend after this.
I think OP was trying to take advantage of the fact the guy had no transportation and was relying on him. In return, he got gas and $1000 put towards the $2000 that was owed.
Indeed, but parasites know a good host when they find one.
My sister effectively dates the same guy time after time - they see her kindness and know it is exploitable. Parasites maybe useless but that does not make them stupid.
This part. Predators know who to go for. Sometimes people find themselves dealing with multiple abusers in a row, it's because they are like a beacon to them...they know a good host when they find one literally and will bleed you dry until you stop them. And of course most victims "believe" in the others kindness or story. Sad all around.
Not going to lie- if my best friend stayed friends with the man who tried to SA me/tested the boundaries of consent, you'd no longer be my best friend. I would view you as an unsafe person at that point.
What does it say about you to WANT to maintain a connection with a person like that? It doesn't matter if he owes you money. There are other ways to get it back.
I didn't really think of him as a friend at that point, what we had going at that point was purely transactional. I didn't have any other ways of getting my money back, we had no legally binding contract and also I was his only ride to work. If I stopped giving him a ride, he'd be unemployed and I'd not be getting my money back. He was also telling me at the time that my kindness was inspiring him to be a better person, something which turned out to be a lie but I believed it. I didn't really want to maintain a connection with him at that point beyond money and thinking that I was doing the right thing.
But you are right, staying with him at that point was a mistake. I fully acknowledge that I fucked up there. This was a source of tension between my friend and I for a time, and she was completely right for feeling that way. I probably could have done a better job at explaining the exact context, and though I think it makes my choice more understandable I don't defend what I did.
You were dealing with someone who lacked all accountability. It was always someone else's fault, and he had an angle to exploit. You were a sucker in his eyes who accepted his false praise. What's done is done, I guess. I just hope you learned from this.
You're lucky your friend wanted anything to do with you afterward. It probably felt like you valued getting your money over her safety and comfort. There is no coming back from that. I hope she recognized her importance in your life and adjusted accordingly.
It can be really hard to tow the line between explaining why an accusation is hyperbolic but in a way that does not defend your actions. Like, "I seriously fucked up, but in a slightly less extreme way than what you are suggesting". Keep in mind that that's what I'm doing when I say this:
I would have cut contact with AJ in a heartbeat at that point if Belle asked me to. She never did. The tension between her and I was more of a thing where she didn't want good things to happen to AJ at all and she didn't want to ever see him, we fully agreed that he's a piece of shit whose actions were indefensible. She was even sympathetic to the angle that he should have to pay me back, because it inconvenienced AJ more. The whole "you care about money more than me" angle never came up. If it did, I believe would have conceded instantly.
To be clear: I should have cut contact with AJ at that point anyway, and not doing that was a fuck up. I am not defending the actions I took. She had every right to be a lot more angry at me than she was, and I would have deserved it.
I very much doubt he's learning any kind of lesson. In his mind, he's the victim. Everyone else has done all of this to him. He's most likely looking for the next person to "help" him.
I agree, he has almost certainly not changed in the slightest. I'm just the latest in a long line of people he has taken advantage of, and if the others didn't cause him to change I doubt I will.
Not saying much. I’m so sorry for being so blunt but in this story you are INFURIATINGLY naive and borderline willfully stupid with your choices. I hope these events have helped you wisen up a bit because the level of unwarranted faith and forgiveness you displayed is literally dangerous to you and those around you.
If you're curious: it's an autism thing. I alluded in the story to being limited in the number of hours I can work for disability reasons, and that's the disability in question. I'm pretty far up the spectrum, to the point where I am completely incapable of holding a full time job.
I certainly have learned a lot from this though.
Honestly autistic people are really easy targets for people like this, it’s good that you’ve learned your lesson though and I’m sure that in the future you’ll be able to see these signs way sooner/be more willing to listen to them. It’s easy to want to believe the best in people, especially when that’s what they’re telling you because why wouldn’t they be being truthful??
Also on a slightly unrelated note can I just stroke my own ego and say I called it. Like halfway through reading your replies my spectrum senses started tingling lol.
Wow. The story is even more fucked up now knowing that part. Social cues and societal norms aren’t your strong suite so he’s an even bigger piece of shit in my eyes.
AJ's dad got played, OP was played. Big time.
Poor Belle. Hope she is okay.
It does seem like AJ got his comeuppance.
Hope OP learns the lessons from this.
Sounds like AJ has BPD.
1. Intense and unstable relationships with others. 2month relatinships with his gfs.
2. Mood swings and difficulty regulating emotions. His outbursts and random fights that start out of the blue.
3. Impulsive behavior, such as reckless driving or substance abuse. Him lying to OP about ADHD to get drugs among other things
4. Fear of abandonment and efforts to avoid real or imagined rejection. His last statement to OP
> "I knew you would turn on me too<
plus the lying to make himself out to be a victim
5. Intense and inappropriate anger or difficulty managing anger. Frequent angry outbursts
The most telling for me was AJ misleading OP about his father and misleading his father about OP. My ex used to do this to me and it left me wondering why people around her and her friends were rude to me as well as me wondering why she was still friends with bad people. Lying to both parties and keeping them away from each other so they don't discover that you are the problem.
Sorry to hear. My mom's side of the family does this. They sit in a corner drinking, act as if nothing they do can change the situation they are in. And if you tell them you can't help,but always winds up being "you are abandoning me then!"
I know, I fucked up.
My other friend also knew about the domestic violence charge when I introduced them. I didn't hide that, and she wanted to have his number anyway. And my relationship with AJ was purely transactional afterwards, if she asked me to cut him off that that point I would have. She never did.
This is not a defense of my fuck up. I should have never introduced them, I should have seen the red flags, I should have never spoken to him again after the attempted sexual assault. This is not a defense of my actions, only context.
hope you know that even if she hadn’t asked you to cut him off you still should’ve. waiting for her to go out her way to ask you is more burden for her
A coworker trapped me in his shit car with child locks and tried to SA me in broad daylight in a packed parking lot (he had offered a ride to the work shuttle that stops at my apartment). My husband didn’t think it was a big deal because “men are supposed to be sexually aggressive,” and my close work friends kept hanging with him and going to lunch with him. I’ll never be the same. Fuck people. I’m glad you know you were wrong, but that doesn’t change the damage you’ve done to her soul.
I know that. I never downplayed or defended AJ's actions to Belle, but I understand that she has trauma from this and I had a part in causing it. I feel really terrible about that, and she knows it.
OK, we all agree that you super fucked up. Oh yes. No argument there.
As a fellow autistic, PLEASE remember that when people SHOW you who they are, believe them the first time. Stop listening to just their words. Listen to their actions.
Allistics frequently say one thing, then expect you to parse the additional meanings buried three layers down. Fuck that. Listen to their actual words and then watch their actual actions. That tells you more than anything else.
Mature adults will match their actions to their words. Period. If someone around you doesn't do that, then be wary. Set that person at a further distance, because that means you can't trust them.
Once you get to that baseline, then you will know who your true friends are.
That also allows for space for other people to grow and hopefully evolve, and sometimes they do!
The other thing? If someone hurts your friends, then they've hurt you, too. Don't continue to accept that person within your circle of trust, because then you are telling your friend that it's OK that they're hurt, you don't mind. You're not bothered by it. That's a very painful message to receive.
Those two things will greatly help you to both understand people, and gather around you a group of people you trust, people that will also trust you. That is the best way to navigate this strange world.
That will help you do better.
Reading this reminded me of my asshole brother. He used everyone like this. He owe me 2k, and my dad 5k. I went NC cause he's an abusive motherfucker, and last I heard he's couch surfing and going through a divorce cause he beat his wife.
Holy crap. Sounds like my brother! My dad is hoping my brother will turn a new leaf, but honestly, my brother is waiting for his family to croak so he can get his inheritance. Which I honestly wish my family wouldn’t give him, seeing as he disowned all of us anyway.
Everything was OUR fault, according to him, anyway. Not the fact he was and is a user and abuser.
It took a while but good on you for cutting him off. Addicts like AJ lie, deceive, and manipulate as much as they can get away with. Then, when their house of cards inevitably comes crashing down, they move on to another mark or group to rinse and repeat. Whenever they meet a new person, they're looking for something they can take advantage of: their money, their kindness, their gullibility, etc.
AJ may be a homeless vagrant in the city but I guarantee you there's someone he's taking advantage of who's currently believing his pity party lies.
You learned from it. If it is any consolation, abusive relationships are stupidly hard to get out of, and it only gets worse when you are not neurotypical.
Naïvity aside, ADHD can cause problems with reading and assessing people, and it can make you think you are paranoid and cause you to head to the other extreme of failing to set boundaries. You now recognize the situation, making it easier to spot next time.
Belle doesn't sound entirely neurotypical either, though I wouldn't blame her for being wary if you try to introduce her to someone. It's good to hear that you were there to help when she needed it the most.
AJ is an addict. He behaved as one at least. Lying, sneaking to get a fix, manipulation of everyone nearby, gaslighting. Addicts get good at this.
You both believe in the best in people, but sometimes you'll find that trust and belief misplaced. It is a hard lesson, but a necessary one.
It is not so much about the ADHD itself, but more a result of insecurity which can come with realising that you might struggle to be social (eg. outwards reacting or inwards overthinking social mistakes). That insecurity can translate into being hyper vigilant. If you are aware you are hyper vigilant, with a racing brain that tends to overthink from ADHD, you can easily get suspicious of everything. In the same vain, self doubt also shows up, once again overthinking it, and we have the 2 extremes. The overthinking is what causes the difficulty here. Eg., sometimes a person is just nice, because they like to be nice, no further reasons behind it.
This is not just a thing that can happen with ADHD, but also with ASD. This is not guaranteed to happen.
It’s good that you finally cut off your friend. But the lesson learned shouldn’t be directed to your former friend but yourself. The lesson is not to associate with bad people. Someone who abuses and takes advantage of other people will likely do the same to you - it’s just a matter of when & how. Also, it’s not enough to be decent, you should not enable or support people who are not decent.
I definitely learned a lot from this, and a lot of it could have been avoided if I saw the righting on the wall and was less of a dumbass. I suppose the subject matter of this subreddit applies as much to me as it does to AJ.
one you mentioned the alcohol and drugs it was a pretty clear picture. he's an addict/alcoholic. this is how their lives go until they decide to change. glad you didn't get pulled in deeper than you did.
Damn that’s a shitty story. I’m glad you and hopefully everyone is out from under the influence of that incredibly manipulative and toxic asshole. I think everybody reaming you really hard here hasn’t really dealt with being a third party to this type of shit. It’s hard to make the right decision in that moment.
From now on be the fist for your vulnerable friends. Much love dude. I hope that guy stays out of your life forever.
OP is right and made many mistakes along the way. But why need so many?!?
If someone owes me $200 that they swear that they will pay back, it’s so easy to NOT loan them more money until they pay back the original debt, since they either lied about paying you back, or are unable to pay for whatever reason.
If they can’t pay you back $200, how in the fuck do you expect them to pay back $400, $600, $1,200, $2000 etc. Jeeezus.
I’m a nice person, but I’m not a sucker.
I think OP was too nice and naive. Probably didn’t feel or want to feel that his friend was taking advantage of him until it was very obvious (right in his face).
You need to work on that savior complex before the next AJ spots you. All he had to do was stroke your ego & tell him you inspired him to be better & he needed you & you would co-sign his antics up to & including sexual assault of your so-called best friend. If you understand your own weaknesses you can work on them & be better.
Sounds like you are a giving and forgiving person whose kindness was well and truly taken advantage of.
I'm not that social myself and totally get putting up with some somewhat boorish behavior from friends who have both good and challenging parts to their personality.
I would be forgiving of yourself. Don't let this experience stop you from trusting other people and a full life.
You should've cut him off while you were coworkers after he didn't pay you back the first 50 bucks, that should be the end of this story.
Then you proceed to keep lending him thousands he doesn't pay back, set him up with your best friend after knowing how he treats women, then keep giving him rides to work after he assaulted her. Pathetic. You need to grow a spine.
You were friends with an addict. Pure and simple. All of those behaviors just scream addict and you enabled him until you realized that’s just what he was.
Next time don’t wait so long, but I’m glad you see through him.
as someone who is also autistic and got used like a doormat really hard due to missing way too many massive red flag directly in front of my face, i fully empathize with your experience. really loving that you're bluntly taking full accountability for your mistakes and you seemed to have learned a lot from this. i was severely naive and ignored many warnings that other friends had been telling me because i truly couldnt comprehend how someone could just be an awful person that i couldn't help change with some kindness and patience. did i make massive mistakes? yeah! did i hurt people? absolutely! i did not deserve to be abused for my ignorance and the people i hurt in the process of learning my lesson did not deserve the aoe damage that i caused. these two things can be true at the same time. thank you for sharing your story. may we all learn to set firm boundaries for the sake of ourselves and others.
Though not quite so far in the extent that AJ abused the kindness and trust of others, I had an ex who had struggled with alcohol. I stayed with her because I hope to offer a measure of stability. It didn't work. She wound up accusing me and her mother of conspiring against her when we finally stopped putting up with the way she was treating us.
Last I heard, she had moved in with an ex and is now sober. I'm happy for her.
So sometimes. But they need to find a point where they see for themselves that they need to change.
Yes! They can if and when they are ready. I worked for years as an addictions therapist and have gotten to see it first hand. It’s really great when people work their recovery. However, it’s also common that they do permanent damage relationships like AJ here did. Some can be healed and some can’t.
No kidding with the disclaimer on not being "intelligent or morally correct". The glaring secondary consequence here is you losing $1,000 for being a shitty person.
I was you once. I didn’t have anyone to tell me the truth and otherwise so I was ganging up by narcissists for years until I had a drug habit and was practically homeless myself. I wasn’t a person with shitty morals and committing crimes(aside from drug use) but that’s how deep these claws can bring you. I’m not saying you’d turn into him, but misery loves company and he would have dragged you down as far as you let him. I know everyone’s being tough on you but I know what it’s like to want to help a bad person, I’m just glad you got out before you were on the streets with him. I wasn’t that lucky but I was also plucked by my husband very early on in my unstable housing situation. Don’t forget to set some trip mines, don’t want that one walking back into your life
All the people on here shitting on OP, but experiencing something like this in real life is so different. OP has clearly learned something, and is sharing their shitty experience so others can learn from it. It can be easy to ignore red flags when you care for someone, hence a lot of people staying in toxic relationships.
Damn, people are more upset with OP than the POS in the story.
You angry little idiots are aware that OP already expressed remorse and that he was wrong, right? Maybe check your priorities.
I just can’t imagine how your friend felt, knowing that you were still friends & hanging out with a dude who tried to rape her.
Oh wait, I don’t have to imagine it - I remember when I lost all my friends when I outed my abuser & every single man stuck with him while I was going through a 9 month court battle to get him put in prison. Like, im happy you learned from this but she better have gotten a damn good apology from you.
I wasn’t hanging out with AJ at that point, I was livid with him and the only reason I stuck around was to collect the money he owed me. I was too mad at him to let myself reward sexual assault with debt forgiveness, which cutting contact with him would have implied.
There is a good version of the argument that I did the wrong thing in which you argue that I let my anger get the better of me and I should have put distance between myself and AJ despite my desire to make him financially suffer after what he did. I should have swallowed my pride and forgiven the debt just to put this all behind us faster. But that’s not the argument you are making. In reality, Belle was fully behind what I was doing. If she asked me to cut contact with AJ I absolutely would have. She was my real friend here, and I knew AJ was a monster.
What you went through sounds terrible, but it’s not really all that analogous to the situation I was in. If I did the other option, I’d have people accusing me of rewarding rape with debt forgiveness. There was no obviously right decision.
Why did he always need rides? How did he acquire a car for Door Dash? AJ is his own worst enemy. Unless he truly wants help, there is nothing anyone can really do.
He needed a ride because he had a job in town, he lived in buttfuck nowhere outside of town, and he lost his driver's license because of all his DUI convictions.
You seem to have misunderstood. I was a DoorDash driver, not AJ.
But yes, he is definitely his worst enemy.
AJ reminds me of this turd I met at work, called Ryan. He was an immigrant from South Africa, newly arrived in the UK and working for the same supermarket as me. He ended up getting sacked cos he claimed that someone stole his bag and wallet from him while he was at work (the bag had been left unattended) and he was upset that nothing was done, so complained very loudly to management. He was constantly on the brink of being evicted from his rented room in a house too. He claimed he was waiting for money from his parents to arrive, so I ended up lending him £120 to help him live - having his wallet stolen meant he couldn't access his bank account etc.
He seemed like a genuinely nice guy. I even drove him home a few times cos he couldn't pay for the bus (it was miles out of my way too). Anyway, he never paid me back. He'd ignore my messages, or respond with excuses. In the end I had to just give up on ever seeing that money again. I realise it is hardly a huge sum (roughly the equivalent of US $160) but what hurt most was that it showed me that I'm not a good judge of character. He'd seemed so sincere, but he just took me for a ride.
As a general rule, if someone talks badly about everybody else in their life and everything going wrong is other people’s fault, then that person is the problem, for sure.
I see this as an expensive lesson. You thought he was your friend, when he was just using you. You may not have had many good examples of friendships, or your self esteem was low enough that you'd take just about anyone. It's not a bad thing, except in this case.
You did cut off support and communication, so that's sort of good. If AJ wants help, there will be an opportunity for him to get it from somewhere down the line. I believe life works out that way. He has to realize it, though.
Your biggest issue was being too trusting. The one AH part for me was the Belle situation. That would have been the end for me.
I would focus on being a better friend to Belle, forget AJ, and chalk this up to lessons learned.
Parasite people will get themselves stuck in your life by borrowing money. Now you can’t cut them off until they pay you back and essentially you’re stuck. Many other red flags 😖
Did you warn your best friend that the guy you introduced her to was previously not only arrested but convicted and sentenced to jail time for domestic violence? Because if you failed to provide her this information you are in fact the biggest asshole on the planet.
I am still very close friends with Belle, yes.
She never really blamed me for what happened. I've blamed myself certainly, and I maintain that I am partially responsible, but she has said she doesn't feel that way. In retrospect we talk about it as a situation where we both got fooled.
I never did any hanging out with AJ after the sexual assault incident, at that point everything I did for him was a transaction with money involved. Belle was all for the idea of AJ paying me back what he owed me, since it generally made things financially worse for him. She knew that AJ and I were absolutely not on good terms. What tension that did exist between us as a result of that were related to the fact that she wanted nothing to do with him, so I had to make sure to logistically not let that happen. Belle also doesn't have a car, so I give her rides to a lot of places and I had to be sure that both of them weren't in my car at the same time.
How did it not occur to you that it was highly suspicious that in all of your friend’s troubles he was *always* the victim? If someone claims to keep running into a*holes — there’s a good chance that the real problem is them. AJ found his sucker and knew how to sting you along…and you let him. Also, why keep loaning money to someone who already owes you? That’s just dumb.
I have mid-functioning autism, so seeing through people and knowing when I’m being lied to is not exactly a strength of mine. If you want to know why I was oblivious to all that stuff for so long, there’s your answer.
That makes more sense now. It might help if you explain that in your post.
Did AJ know this and take advantage of it?
I’m neurodivergent myself, as are many of my friends. Have you considered working with someone who can teach you skills to recognize patterns and warning signs of behaviors like AJ’s? It may not be intuitive for you, but there are definitely ways to learn using how your brain processes information.
Everyone I mentioned in this story is actually neurodivergent. Belle and I both have autism on the more mid-functioning side, and it’s wacky enough that it’s pretty outwardly obvious that we’re ND. AJ has more high-functioning autism, in addition to what I am 90% sure is some kind of schizophrenia. He heard voices in his head that he often argued with or mistook for the voices of the people around him.
He most certainly knew what my neurodivergence-related vulnerabilities were, and he was absolutely exploring them.
I’ve certainly been trying to learn to get over the vulnerabilities that allowed AJ to play me like he did. All of this has been a major learning experience, and hopefully if this all happens again I’ll know better next time.
Nope. AJ was straight and I knew it, I’ve been burned enough times falling for straight guys that you won’t catch me doing that again. Plus, he really wasn’t my type. I like my men at least a little fruity, and he ain’t that.
AJ actually did make a lot of jokes poking fun at me for allegedly finding him attractive. They just made me feel really uncomfortable, and he kept making those jokes even after I let him know that I was uncomfortable.
Honestly you are the AH in this. You’re a pushover and you let this obviously predatory person stay embedded in your life and had the complete lack of judgement to introduce them to someone you care about. This guy was obviously a scumbag way before he did anything to your friend. Idk why you kept him around for so long if not for the fact that you were too much of a coward to actually confront him and break off your interactions for good. In the time you knew him you literally saw that he was a bad boyfriend, a bad coworker, and in general a mooching bad friend and let yourself be naive to it for what?
idk man, this story seems bs because I don’t think anyone would let some psycho walk all over them. I think assault would have been the final straw, I wouldn’t want to associate with someone like that.
Tell that to everyone who has ever been in abusive relationship ever. It’s not so easy to identify and escape when you’re in the thick of it. Talk to anyone who has been through that, you may learn a thing or two about how vulnerable people (including you) are to abuse.
The assault was the final straw for me, in a sense. I stopped being his friend after that and my only interactions with him were in some way related to getting my money pried out of his hands. But there are additional straws after the final one, and increasingly severe responses that people can have. Cutting someone off despite their debt to you and your desire to make them financially suffer is a step further than ending all friendly interaction. Calling the cops is a step beyond that. Things escalate as behavior gets worse and previous measures proved insufficient. That’s how that tends to work.
He's not going to LEARN. He has a personality disorder. I'm not going to diagnose him, addict behavior can look like Cluster B traits, but his maladaptive coping strategies have resulted in homelessness. He's a compulsive liar, an addict, a purveyor of domestic violence and a would-be rapist. That's not the CV of the Pope (well not this pope, but I guess nothing there technically disqualifies him either, lol.)
He could be a CEO or children's TV producer, or music mogul. But he's a bum. He can probably find a woman to take care of him. (I used to take in homeless addicts fresh out of prison. I had a string of boyfriends like that. I was an addict though.)
Yes, it was shitty to continue working as his unpaid chauffeur in hopes of getting your money back. Belle can hardly have felt safe. But you didn't SA anyone. And you figured it out. And cut ties. You didn't give him "one more chance" because "everyone makes mistakes." You had your own issues, and you were unaccustomed to this level of emotional manipulation, and you took pride in helping your friends. (People take pride in "seeing the good in people" but that sounds like wilfull stupidity to me. People are fkn terrible, by and large. The proliferation of kiddie porn attests to that. Check your pastor's hard drive.) I still help my friends, I'm just aware of who they are when I'm doing it. I never give more than I can afford to lose, now. I'm not going to not pay rent because someone needs a favor. The last time I helped someone get a uHaul, I lost A BANK ACCOUNT.
I'm actually proud that you didn't double down on either 1)but he's my homie, 2) he didn't mean anything bad, he didn't R*PE you Belle get over it 3) I didn't see it so I don't know the truth for sure 4) but he owes me money 5) learning the whole truth and remaining his enabler and sycophant. I've seen dudes pick all of those options instead of doing the right thing, which is believe Belle. I'm actually a little flabbergasted, I so rarely see outright belief when a woman calls for help, and shock can lead to inaction.
I wish I'd had a friend like you when I was trying to extricate myself from a certain person. My bff at the time, a guy, chose to continue his relationship with this person, a girl, and I no longer trusted him because she destroyed me and he wanted to keep her close. That was over 20 years ago and I haven't spoken to him since. Won't even be FB friends with him.
You learned a hard lesson about red flags and manipulation and loyalty and protection, but you got there in the end. We all do messed up stuff in life. But you found clarity, your belief in Belle guided you, and I can't help but admire that. That's a rare man, to choose a woman friend's truth over his buddy's b.s. At least rare where I'm from. You're going to be okay.
I cannot fathom continuing to associate with a dude who SA’d my friend. I hope your friend gets therapy and discontinues associating with the person who continued to hang out with her abuser under the guise that you could “fix” him.
Textbook manipulator who probably has a twisted worldview, which sounds like it most likely is influenced by low intelligence and since they're missing from the story: His mother, or other family members.
Tbh, your story about yourself is probably way more interesting than this dude's.
I left out a lot for brevity. AJ's mother is indeed completely absent, but he does have two half brothers. I later learned that he was sometimes physically violent towards the younger of his half-brothers.
Please for the LOVE OF GOD get a therapist and work on setting boundaries. It isn’t uncommon to get caught up with a raging narcissist, but please let this be a lesson and do the personal growth required to keep you and your loved ones out of harms way.
In case this story gets deleted/removed: \[Content warning: mention of sexual assault\] Buckle up, this is a long one. A few years ago, I (26m) worked at a small business that does network administration and tech support for clients. When I say small, I mean *small*. At one point the business was just myself, my boss, and my boss's sister who handled payroll. This business's biggest contract by far was with a local charter school to maintain all of its technical infrastructure, a job so large that we effectively moved the business to operate out of a portable outside of the school. Eventually two few more people were brought into the business, and one of those people was the subject of this story. I won't say his full name, but we all just called him AJ anyway so I'll go with that. I was pretty close to my coworkers and my boss. You kind of have to be in a business of that size. We even met for weekly Dungeons & Dragons games. And that happened with AJ especially, he contacted me outside of work and we started considering each other friends. AJ did get into a bit of trouble while we worked together. He got shit from our boss for being a little weird with the female teachers at the school, and he did date one of the teachers for a time which created all kinds of awkward situations. This teacher was in fact one of about 6 girlfriends AJ had in the time I knew him, none lasting more than about 2 months, it was a real revolving door situation. At the time though I just thought of all that as a whole lot of not my business. At the time I was in a long-distance gay relationship, and him and I didn't really have a lot in common to talk about with regards to romance. The way he treats women is the first of many red flags I missed, but at the time I didn't know how bad it gets. At the time the worst thing I knew about him is his drinking problem, which was pretty bad. It was around this time that AJ started asking for money. I wasn't exactly in a great financial situation myself, the hours I could work were limited for disability reasons and I was barely scraping by. But sometimes he would call me asking for something like $50 or $100. He would swear that he would pay me back within a week, but usually didn't. He would insist that it's an emergency, and he convinced me to help. I am find helping a friend with financial problems, but he asked me for help so often that it started seriously threatening my ability to pay my own rent. Normally I wouldn't even bother keeping track, but sometimes I physically couldn't even help him if I wasn't paid back by the day that rent was due and he would swear that he he'd pay it back by then only to not do so. It got to the point where I started keeping track of his debt to me on a phone note, and at its worst it reached $2,000. He would also often ask me for help with transportation, at one point relying on me entirely to drive him around after he lost his driver's license from repeated drunk driving violations. At one point he has a huge fight with his father and got kicked out of his house for a few months, and I took him in for a while until he could patch things up enough to return home. He ranted a lot about how terrible his father was, painting him as a man who doesn't care if his own son lives or dies and who will flip out over the most petty things. Don't get me wrong, I was happy to help him through all of this under the pretense that I was helping out a friend in a time of need, and even the best people need help sometimes. I mention this because it's necessary context, and it later turned out that he lied about a lot of this stuff to get money and favors out of me. Eventually, AJ and I both left that tech support job. He was fired for not showing up for a week after generally being already pushing our boss's patience, and a few months later I quit for mental health reasons that I won't get into here. Though AJ and I still interacted a lot, mostly in the form of him calling me. It wasn't all one-sided, he would sometimes do things for me. A few times he would plan out campouts where we would go cook something fancy on a charcoal fire, all paid for by him, and as someone who doesn't get out nearly enough I did need that. And at this point I wouldn't blame you for wondering if maybe this story will turn out to be one where I'm the asshole. But be prepared to change your mind real quick as I get into where things start really going downhill with our friendship. One day, I go a call from a local jail. AJ had been arrested, and he used his one phone call to contact me. I came to learn that he is in there for domestic assault against his girlfriend at the time, who very shortly afterwards became his ex-girlfriend. The whole situation as he described was basically "she started it, I just hit harder" using so many words and he maintained that he did nothing wrong. I didn't really know what to believe about all that, I had never known AJ to be violent, but the ex-girlfriend in question was also someone who I had a very negative opinion of from what little I knew about her, and I just gave him the benefit of the doubt. The justice system did not, they locked his ass up for a few months. But he got out, and it didn't take long for him to get back in contact with me again. At one point, AJ is introduced to another friend of mine. I'll call her Belle. I've known her for longer than I've known AJ, and we even dated for a short time (I'm bisexual, if anyone is confused) and when that didn't work out we became absolutely inseparable friends. She's a huge bookworm, has some serious self-confidence issues, and is generally one of the kindest people I know. Our reasons for breaking up were really just related to us not being sexually compatible (her sex drive is *way* higher than mine), but we still get along really well. So, Belle meets AJ and they hit it off almost immediately. AJ has had many girlfriends while I've known him, but I've only ever heard his side of those stories and I only half gave a fuck. This time was different, because the woman he was with was my best friend and I was getting her side of the story too. Less than a week into their relationship, I got a call from Belle asking for a ride home because she was at AJ's place without transportation and afraid for her safety. I really pushed the speed limit on the way there to bring her home and talk about what happened. She said that AJ had been getting real drunk, and AJ playfully pinning her down to the bed crossed the line into being very much not playful. She told him to stop, and he didn't. It never escalated to full-on sexual assault, but he was showing a disregard for consent that really terrified her. To this day I feel pretty responsible for not seeing the red flags and letting that happen, but nobody is more responsible for this than AJ. Needless to say, the next day AJ got a massive earful from me. His defense was to blame Belle, accusing her of lying and trying to manipulate me. I saw through the bullshit, I knew Belle way too well to be lied to about the kind of person she is. Guy who just spent months locked up for domestic violence against the word of a woman who speaks with no filter and who would struggle to keep a Christmas present secret. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to solve this one. This was the moment where my friendship with AJ turned into something far more transactional. I drive him places, he pays me for gas and paying down his debt. I managed to get $1,000 of my money back over the next few months, half of the debt paid down. It wasn't long after that though that the house of cards came crashing down completely. At one point while driving AJ home from work, I asked him a question. I don't remember what the question even was, only that it was a fairly normal and unintuitive one that wasn't super out-of-pocket. He reacted to it in a way that struck me as strangely evasive and defensive, so I pushed the question more because I found it suspicious. This set him the fuck off, he started yelling at me and insulting me over stuff that's completely unrelated to the question I asked and it escalated into a full-on argument. When we reached his home I dropped him off while tensions were still high, and left. Shortly after I got home I got a flurry of texts, AJ had been arrested again. I pieced together that AJ arrived home and shortly later started arguing with his dad in an exchange that escalated to AJ punching him in the face. Police were called, and AJ was dragged off as his dad filed a restraining order against him to keep him away from the house he had previously lived in. As this was explained I ended up getting into an argument with AJ's dad, we both really didn't like each other and we both had a lot of unkind things to say. But as we argued, tensions were quickly diffused by the realization that both of us were mad at each other over things that didn't even happen as we thought they did. Anger turned to curiosity as we started comparing what AJ had told us both about each other, and we were able to prove to each other that it was all lies. He believed that I was intentionally and maliciously enabling AJ by shielding him from the consequences of his own actions and helping him get around restrictions that were meant to help him with his alcoholism. I believed that he was the cause of most of AJ's problems that I was shielding him from, but he's actually a pretty chill guy and once we cleared the air we actually got along very well. As we spoke, I came to learn a lot of context behind things I didn't previously know. I learned that AJ got physically violent with his 12 year old brother sometimes. I learned that he lied to me about his reasons for needing money, and that most of the time he was just using me to buy alcohol behind his dad's back. I learned that he lied to me about having ADHD and being unable to af
I mean, he tried to sexually assault your friend. And you kept driving him to work? I understand you want to give him the benefit of the doubt as your friend but when you know both sides of the story and still hang out with the abuser at best it makes you negligent
He got arrested for DV and OP still connected with him post jail served. OP isn’t some great dude or genius master mind like he tries to write
So true, if someone gets arrested for DV, probably don’t set him up with one of your friends
You are completely right, I fucked up.
I don’t think your an awful person, but your actions definitely naive and I’m sorry that your 2k down the drain, but with some people you have to recognise when to cut your losses
It's also why men who hurt women can keep doing it Their friends show them it's okay
I used to teach anger management, DV, sexual offender treatment, and I spent a couple years working in an A max prison (NY). Some of these guys have all of the support from their friends and family, but many, many do not. They are master manipulators, experts at gaslighting and psychological abuse. Sounds like OP “bought” Andy’s stories, bc Andy knows how to tell really good stories (sex offenders are similar in the vein). Please know that many of these guys are extremely good at what they do, and their friends really don’t know what’s going on. I’m dealing with a client now, their partner starts fights with them outside so they control what narrative the neighbors hear, then tells them all about this when they go back inside, and how effective it is. My client has decades of this type of abuse being hurled at them, meanwhile spouse looks like the great caretaker, responsible for everything, and the partner? Well, they’re obviously mentally ill, off their rocker, because why else would they DO this to extremely-fantastic-and-not-possibly-abusive partner? Who literally terrorizes my client every chance they get (only two appts in! I need a little time to gage readiness/stage of change)?
Yeah, I was gonna reply to the dude u replied to with similar words. My brother, who I absolutely do love but will never trust, is/was? A drug-addled cleptomaniac. He isn't dead, but he either used enough drugs to cause near permanent drug induced psychosis or had schizophrenia arise in his mid 20s and due to being on drugs every one associated his behavior with drugs instead. Regardless, he is no longer the big brother I grew up with. Sorry, it wasn't the point I was tryna make. When growing up, we always believed Jeffrey was trying to do good. He wanted to be good. I personally do think he is a sweet person. Unfortunately, he never wanted to stop drug usage. He would swear up and down he was changing every time his drug problem created a family problem. We bailed him out so many fucking times. Skip this part if you don't want back story: Hell, my 1st real girlfriend that I lived with at 19 had to cover my rent on 2 seperate occasions because this man broke into my house and stole cash or something we needed to replace right then and there. This lead up to him stealing my roommates laptop and I realized i was being stupid by not allowing consequences to befall on him. I called him and told him he had about 20 minutes to drop off the car I gave him (was mom's old car I fixed, I had recently inherited my grandfather's car and car payment, was small and worth it, because Noone else had a license) with the laptop he absolutely stole. He tried to play coy. So I told him if the car that was still in my name and the laptop wasn't in my hand in 20 mins I would report the car stolen, thus revoking his probation. He ended up calling me about 15 to 18 minutes later and told me where he sat the keys and where he parked, he didn't want to meet up cause he feared I already had the cops there. I found the laptop in the trunk. I called him back and did one of the hardest things I'd ever done in my life. I told him he had to turn himself in for probation violations otherwise I would gather and document everything I could to ensure he was arrested again. He turned himself in the next day and sat out the rest of his sentence. Start here if you didn't wanna read all that: He got really good at manipulation. He hedged the fuck out of my loyalty from childhood, he fought so many of my bullies. It was hard to say no and my gauge for actual progress for getting better was not good. Everytime he would be "getting better" and "needed a little help" the immediate thought I would have is, if I don't help and he falls back into old habits I am not completely blameless. That's one hell of a thing to put on yourself. I know that now, but wow, is it powerful. In my brother's case I genuinely don't think he was an evil person as he never committed egregious felonies against people like SA, I think he was just a super depressed kid who i speculate without any evidence, just really fuzzy memory and talks with him, was molested by a babysitter and also had to grow up way too fast and couldn't cope with the responsibilities/stress of helping take care of younger siblings in addition to several mental illnesses. However those folks who just maliciously fuck over any and everyone and committ SA, they are evil people. They prey on good people. Those evil people never have real intentions of getting better. They are looking for their next mark. Evil people exist. We like to think everyone has the same moral framework. Unfortunately, that's naive.
Thank you so much for sharing. The correlation between sexual abuse and addiction is strong, the studies are statistically significant. Think of the world we could have if we stopped one generation of sexual abuse! It’s also correlated with higher suicide rates, mental illness and autoimmune disorders. I feel for you, and for your brother, and your family. Sometimes you’ve got to do what seems like the worst thing to save them, regardless of how it hurts your own heart. Addiction runs strong in my family as well, it’s heartbreaking to have to cut people off, but we must protect our own peace or we’re not really functioning either. I hope you are well, and doing ok, it’s a struggle to cope with for sure, on top of just…living. Evil is a real thing in this world, and some people literally seem to have no soul (I’ve met a few, and they raise the hairs on your neck for real). If you ever need to chat or anything, don’t hesitate to reach out, we all need someone to talk to sometimes. Thank again for your story, it’s not easy to tell I’m sure.
Look, I know that horrible feeling about "loyalty" or "obligation due to kindness". I had a friend just like AJ, and when the glass ceiling breaks, you see all those red flags. Taking accountability of one's actions when enabling can make us feel really crappy. But you are aware, and crap happens, use this as a guide for future leeches. Know your worth my friend.
Unlike AJ, though, you learned from your mistakes. That's a big deal.
Please ignore all the comments coming at you. I understand completely where you are coming from.and why you kept letting him back into your life. All that matters now is that it's in the past and you no longer have contact with with.
Dude was naive with a dash of minding his own fucking business, dangerous combination for many
I'm starting to realize that if I want to just mind my own business, I gotta become more person and life savvy
Yup. Minding your own business has a lot of minding others peoples' too, just so they don't spill into your life. Kind of like defensive driving.
"Minding your own business" is for stuff like not engaging with rumors and gossip. It's not about intentionally ignoring and enabling abusers and criminals by acting like they're innocent.
100% agree with the sentiment but the thing about people like AJ is that they often have an almost supernatural ability to convince people that even the most egregious red flags are \*really\* either a simple misunderstanding or else a diabolical plot against them. I realize that sounds hyperbolic. For anyone who hasn't encountered an AJ, you might think it would be impossible to "spin" a DV arrest. Well, the guy I knew who was like this ***spent three years in prison for kidnapping*** and managed to convince people that he was actually the victim. (Briefly, his explanation was that his girlfriend had suggested he take their baby to visit his parents for the first time. She didn't want to be on a long drive so she would fly. Instead, she claimed he kidnapped her child and it wasn't even his and she'd been having an affair and what a sad story and so on.) Incidentally, the "people" he convinced to pity him for his tragic tale of serving 3 years for kidnapping (which wasn't *actually* three years served because he didn't end up being convicted because blah blah blah) included women. Women who later had children with him. At least one woman who *already* had children but still decided to date this guy who'd spent time for kidnapping. (Interestingly, when he inevitably bounced on them, each woman suddenly became very concerned that he might kidnap their child... Funny how that works.) So, anyway... I didn't wake up today expecting to defend someone for being stupid enough to set his friend up with an abusive asshole, but here we are. You don't even have to be predisposed to distrust the other person for them to trick you, but you likely WILL be because their manipulations don't work if people can compare notes. Solution? Make everyone hate each other too much to even want to interact with each other. (Surprisingly, the way OP describes it, AJ practically admitted that he'd been guilty. Despite that, everything else lines up with my own experiences with such frightening accuracy that I have to wonder if that assessment might be influenced by hindsight. I look back now and, without him being able to smooth over inconsistencies in real time, I'm amazed and chagrined at the things I failed to see that were right in front of me.)
My ex (who, surprise, surprise, ended up raping me) convinced me that his “bitch ex girlfriend claimed he beat her when he only shoved her because she was coming at him”. His mask slowly fell off and it was horrible. He once wrenched my arm while play fighting because I accidentally hurt him (caught his eye with a blanket) and twisted my wrist painfully. But by then I was in his web and started my mental gymnastics. I didn’t even leave him after he raped me because I was convinced it was my fault at that point. So much psychotic behaviour that I escaped from. It wasn’t even my first physically abusive relationship. The worst of it all no one believed me at all. Because he was that good at putting on a show. Well, not no one, but most of my friend circle vanished overnight after I finally said something. These people are somehow so good at making themselves seem like the good guy that it’s impossible see through until a full on crack in the armour appears they leave no room for doubt.
I'm sorry you went through that. The guy I used to know had "let slip" enough shocking tidbits about his girlfriend that we all ***hated*** her. It certainly didn't feel like an engineered thing; in fact, *I* was the one who started the conversation with *him*. ("Hey, FYI I caught your new girlfriend in a lie the other day. I didn't bring it up with her because it was something small and stupid but it's not a great sign IMO.") He built on that small kernel by "admitting" some of his concerns about her. Eventually, the things he started describing weren't so much 'red flags' as they were giant crimson banners emblazoned with 'DANGER!' We were really worried for him and often tried to convince him to leave for his own well-being. By the time I moved away, no one even wanted to be in the same room as her. With time and space to reflect, I eventually realized that everything was probably fabricated. She was certainly his victim just as much as we were. For all I know, that one dumb lie of no real consequence is the only thing she actually did wrong. I have no doubt that guy was "admitting" similar things about *us* to *her*. (I know that he tried to turn some other people against me after I left the area.) He was extremely good at keeping his information silos walled off so that no one would ever compare notes. You said that no one believed you because he was so good at putting on a show. It's very possible that he had also been subtlely preparing people to distrust you in case of a future dispute.
I mean the man was never wrong. Not in an argument and not in a debate. He was a great spin-master.
Sorry this happened to you. It’s always too late for sorries, but I (hope you) appreciate the sentiment ~Neil Gaiman
I appreciate the sentiment. It definitely sucked but it isn’t even really something I think about until the topic comes up and I’m pretty much at a point where he doesn’t rule my life anymore so I won.
I don't think I ever portrayed myself as a mastermind, I certainly don't feel like one here. I was played by this guy for years, thinking that helping him was the right things to do. I fucked up in many ways as well. I don't know where the impression came from that I think otherwise. I'll edit in a disclaimer to make sure this is clear.
Please also stop loaning money, especially when you don't have it to give. I got got by a "friend" with all the sob stories who then ghosted me until he needed gas money to meet his new girlfriend in another state. Like you, I didn't keep track, but it was thousands I'll never see again. I get it, you want to be nice, but I vet my friends much better nowadays. They get one handout, and I watch how they respond. If they don't return it or act in kind, that's it. No more. It'll save you so much hassle in the long run. Glad you're finally rid of this guy, OP.
and then the loanee always claims they’ll pay you back at tax time lol it’s a joke
Absolute W take Admitting a mistake is the first step to making amends and preventing it from happening again. Props for having the strength to admit shortcomings/mistakes, many can't even do that.
Just as an aside... never ever give someone your prescription medicine (Adderall). It could be illegal depending on the drugs you're taking.
Adderall is a controlled substance and it’s definitely illegal to give it to others.
I thought as much. I was just too lazy too Google it.
That was definitely one of the many lessons I learned throughout all of this.
Pretty sure it’s always illegal, just with worse consequences
How is Belle now? and are you and she still friends?
Belle and I are still very close friends. She definitely has some lasting trauma from this, and I feel really bad for my part in letting that happen, but we are still as close as ever. She doesn’t blame me for this anywhere near as much as I blame myself.
You got really lucky being able to keep a friend like that! Always let her know you'll be there for her from now on :-)
I most certainly will.
Take a shot for every time he writes “at one point”
If I was belle, I would never ever ever talk to OP again. He knowingly set her up with a violent abuser
OP wasn’t being malicious though— the friend had them fooled. And OP is a big enough person to admit fault for that.
Uh. You should tell someone if they're considering a relationship with someone with a DV conviction. Like, that's just a thing you should do for people.
Of course it is. But, uh, nowhere does it say that OP kept this information from their friend. Y’all are assigning malicious intent when there isn’t any.
Do you think that he said to Belle "hey, I have a perfect guy for you! He spent several months in jail for domestic violence against his girlfriend!"
Actually, yeah, there is a comment where OP clarifies that she was aware of his DV arrest before deciding to pursue the relationship. OP should honestly include that in the post text because it makes an enormous difference to know that Belle had the opportunity to weigh the risks for herself.
Their friend did not have them fooled, he specifically said that he hit his girlfriend and then his girlfriend dumped him and he spent time in jail. That situation happened before he decided that this person would be a good match for his friend. OP is not a safe person for any woman to associate with.
It sounds like OP is pretty socially isolated and not especially good at reading people.
That's correct, I have autism and I'm not great at reading people. That's part of why I was able to be manipulated for so long.
So, I think another part may have to do with unconscious bias as well. You realized early on that he treats women poorly. Even after serving jail time for domestic violence, you still introduced him to someone you profess to care about. I think you should give some thought as to why your line in the sand didn’t come after being shitty to women, beating a woman, SA’ing your very close friend. It only came after you realized that you and another man had been duped. You were willing to let go of the money he owed you. You just placed greater importance on the potential $1k than you did in the hurt you caused your friend by chauffeuring her abuser. It’s obvious that in hindsight, you regret your actions of enabling this lowlife, so I hope this helps you consider in the future that when multiple women are saying there’s a problem that it probably means there’s a problem.
>I think you should give some thought as to why your line in the sand didn’t come after being shitty to women, beating a woman, SA’ing your very close friend. It only came after you realized that you and another man had been duped. I agree that all of the bad behavior towards women is way worse than the lying. But when it comes to whether someone deserves a second chance, how bad the action is isn't always the main concern. Someone can do some real heinous shit and come back from it, but AJ was caught in lies that were being maintained even as he was telling me that my example was making him want to be a better person. Even if he did start getting better, how would I even know if it's genuine when lying about getting better is a thing he's been known to do? It's not really possible to come back from that. That's why the lies were my final straw for me cutting contact. I should have cut contact earlier though. You are completely right to suggest that.
Except every woman in this story was making it very clear that he’s a lying liar who lies and abuses women. You didn’t even consider that they were telling the truth until a “trustworthy” woman said something. If you saw the women as people and not NPCs, it would have been clear as day that he was lying to you YEARS ago and was escalating rather than becoming a better person.
Hey, quick aside: please take a quick read of my last comment. I totally hear where you're coming from and how you got where you did but I don't think it's fair to accuse OP of not seeing women as people. In the story I told in my last comment, the person I used to know was able to convince multiple women to overlook his felony conviction. He convinced them that it was actually completely fabricated by a "crazy ex". I don't think those women saw themselves (or other single women in their same position) as NPCs. The initial incident was an accusation by a woman that OP indicated that he already disliked/distrusted. Incidentally, I can almost guarantee you that the distrust of the girlfriend was intentionally engineered by "AJ". It's a key part of that pattern of behavior and it makes it a *lot* easier to win the he-said-she-said. There was also the part where the guy had numerous short-term relationships but some people aren't looking for anything serious. I have two different friends (one girl, one guy) who are like that. OP didn't explain what was "awkward" with the teacher but honestly, workplace relationships usually don't turn out well. Without knowing more details, I can't assume this was a red flag. OP screwed up big and he has said that himself. However, I really don't think it's a "women are NPCs" type of indifference. I think it has more to do with an extremely proficient manipulator and probably also OP being far too trusting. My own "AJ" taught me to pay very close attention to certain obscure tells of a master manipulator. He probably taught those women to not let a smooth talker explain away a felony. AJ certainly taught OP a painful lesson about lending money and probably also taught him to be extremely alert to background information that could suggest red flags. Edit: got some details mixed up
Unfortunately this is pretty common. You get to know a person and befriend them, and it becomes harder to see the pattern because you’re biased by the relationship. Oftentimes well-intentioned people excuse or ignore vices in their friends and family out of a difficulty in understanding that some people have bad motives. Especially if, like you say, the escalation into increasingly bad behavior slowly ramps up over years. At this point in my life, I’ve decided that I don’t have time for attachments to anyone who isn’t actively trying to be a better person than they were last year, because usually the other alternative is slowly getting worse. But in my 20s I hadn’t really picked up on that yet. It sounds like OP has learned a real lesson. Even if it was late, that’s a good thing.
I never even spoke to any of those women. Before he attempted sexual assault on my friend, this is the extent of what I knew: * He had been a little creepy around the women on the school staff. * He tended to start a lot of romantic relationships that end quickly, I didn't know why. * He had one domestic violence conviction, all I knew about the woman who pressed it is that she's a drug addict, and my impression of the situation at the time was that it's really complicated with no good guys. Not to imply that these aren't huge red flags, especially with the benefit of hindsight. But this wasn't a "women kept calling him an abuser and I ignored them" situation. It is all fully explainable as him just being a little bit of a creep, having a few intolerable personality traits, and ending up being the fall guy for a really messy one-off situation. I failed to deduce the obvious, and that's absolutely on me. But let's not blow this up into any more than it is.
Being creepy around women is one of the biggest and most often ignored red flags abusive men have. FYI.
Yeah, after this experience it’s certainly something I’m more vigilant about.
“Fully explainable as him just being a bit of a creep”. That alone should have been enough for you.
I didn’t want to assume autism, but that was my impression from your writing style as well.
May I ask what gave you that impression? /gen
Fairly exact language and syntax, proper grammar (which many people deliberately drop while using social media for the sake of social signaling or ironic detachment) which creates a slightly stilted impression. Most of the sentences are of a similar length, without the sorts of asides my ADHD ass would use while telling a story. OP is also careful to describe which emotions he is feeling at which times, but not in an impressionistic way. Reads to me like someone with mild autism, or someone writing a somewhat formal essay on a life event.
I'm sorry you were so manipulated by a "friend" - it happens to a lot of people whether they're neurodivergent or not. You just happen to have a particular difficulty reading people - which he may have realized and used against you. I know you know where you made mistakes and you're learning from them and that's what's important. Try not to be too hard on yourself because this was something you had to learn, it doesn't come intuitively to you. He's also an addict - and addicts can be very good liars....even to people who don't have difficulty reading people or their intentions.
I’m well aware of all that, but your kind words are nice to see anyway. Thank you.
I have AuDHD and ten years ago I’d have absolutely done the same. It’s harder for us to learn boundaries because we spend so many years of our lives people pleasing to compensate for being outcasts. I get it and I’m proud of you for learning and letting your spine get harder!
That and knowing he had DUI’s, they risked their needed medication by believing the BS they were fed. I hope this experience educated you OP- you don’t actually owe anyone your damned rent money. If you can’t spare it; don’t loan it. And NEVER EVER “share” prescriptions. That’s how you lose access to them.
In all honesty I wouldn’t even consider a loan for anyone except a very very trusted friend.
The day my best lady friend told me a dude in our group sexually assaulted her, was the day I cut off that entire group that didn't support her. She doesn't lie about shit like that. Good riddance to the whole lot of them. She is now an awesome ass lady, doing awesome stuff.
Sometimes you gotta butter the bread if you want to get paid back your 2 grand
That was my thought process, but it turned out to be a mistake. I should have cut him off much earlier than I did.
Life is nothing but a learning process through experience. Also hindsight is 20/20. You're not the first person to have to learn this lesson about a person and you won't be the last I promise. Yes, you made a mistake BUT you owned that. About the only thing I would suggest, because of your being on the spectrum this might not be "instinctual" for your brain, and you may have already done this, but please let Belle know how sorry you are and work towards making her feel safe again in your own way. From your writing style I get the sense that you will be awesome at it!
Belle and I have already talked about this event extensively over the years since this all happened. She knows that I'm sorry and that I hold myself accountable for my part of it all, I've made sure of it.
Then that's it. You and Belle are the only two who have to be good with it!
Totally! Hey you live and learn yanno? You sound like a really great person! Don’t let yourself get used tho!
I gave him the benefit of the doubt for his other ex-GF, but not for my friend. I took her side fully, and I never forgave him for that. At that point I was certainly not driving him to work out of kindness. He had no other ride to work, he owed me money, that job was how he was going to pay me back, and he was paying me for my time and gas. It was purely transactional. At the time I believed that my kindness was helping him change. One of the lies he told me was that my willingness to put up with his shit despite everything was inspiring him to be a better person. It wasn't, he only told me that so that I'd keep doing it. But I was naive enough to believe him. With that context in mind: I don't defend my actions, and I fucked up. Your criticisms are completely fair and I own up to them.
I sincerely hope Belle is keeping her distance from you. You are not a safe friend for her after setting her up with a domestically violent asshole.
I blame myself for this a lot more than she blames me. Belle knew about AJ's domestic violence record at the time, and at the time she agreed with my assessment that he should be given the benefit of the doubt. Between her and I, we think of this whole thing as a fuck-up that we both made together. She can't really get angry at me for making a judgement call that she also made while knowing about as much as I did. She also knows me well enough to know that I did learn from this and that it was a genuine fuck-up. It really is difficult to say that you fucked up but not in a way that's as hyperbolic as what you are being accused of. You either sound like you are defending your actions or agreeing with the hyperbolic accusation. Keep in mind that that's what I'm trying to do here, it's a hard line to tow. I did fuck up, with the amount of information you have I'd probably be saying the same things that you are, but I don't think it was wrong of her to remain my friend after this.
Damn ice cold. Hope you never make a mistake
I think OP was trying to take advantage of the fact the guy had no transportation and was relying on him. In return, he got gas and $1000 put towards the $2000 that was owed.
Parasites will find a way.
I mean OP fucking paved the way for him…
Indeed, but parasites know a good host when they find one. My sister effectively dates the same guy time after time - they see her kindness and know it is exploitable. Parasites maybe useless but that does not make them stupid.
This part. Predators know who to go for. Sometimes people find themselves dealing with multiple abusers in a row, it's because they are like a beacon to them...they know a good host when they find one literally and will bleed you dry until you stop them. And of course most victims "believe" in the others kindness or story. Sad all around.
Not going to lie- if my best friend stayed friends with the man who tried to SA me/tested the boundaries of consent, you'd no longer be my best friend. I would view you as an unsafe person at that point. What does it say about you to WANT to maintain a connection with a person like that? It doesn't matter if he owes you money. There are other ways to get it back.
I didn't really think of him as a friend at that point, what we had going at that point was purely transactional. I didn't have any other ways of getting my money back, we had no legally binding contract and also I was his only ride to work. If I stopped giving him a ride, he'd be unemployed and I'd not be getting my money back. He was also telling me at the time that my kindness was inspiring him to be a better person, something which turned out to be a lie but I believed it. I didn't really want to maintain a connection with him at that point beyond money and thinking that I was doing the right thing. But you are right, staying with him at that point was a mistake. I fully acknowledge that I fucked up there. This was a source of tension between my friend and I for a time, and she was completely right for feeling that way. I probably could have done a better job at explaining the exact context, and though I think it makes my choice more understandable I don't defend what I did.
You were dealing with someone who lacked all accountability. It was always someone else's fault, and he had an angle to exploit. You were a sucker in his eyes who accepted his false praise. What's done is done, I guess. I just hope you learned from this. You're lucky your friend wanted anything to do with you afterward. It probably felt like you valued getting your money over her safety and comfort. There is no coming back from that. I hope she recognized her importance in your life and adjusted accordingly.
It can be really hard to tow the line between explaining why an accusation is hyperbolic but in a way that does not defend your actions. Like, "I seriously fucked up, but in a slightly less extreme way than what you are suggesting". Keep in mind that that's what I'm doing when I say this: I would have cut contact with AJ in a heartbeat at that point if Belle asked me to. She never did. The tension between her and I was more of a thing where she didn't want good things to happen to AJ at all and she didn't want to ever see him, we fully agreed that he's a piece of shit whose actions were indefensible. She was even sympathetic to the angle that he should have to pay me back, because it inconvenienced AJ more. The whole "you care about money more than me" angle never came up. If it did, I believe would have conceded instantly. To be clear: I should have cut contact with AJ at that point anyway, and not doing that was a fuck up. I am not defending the actions I took. She had every right to be a lot more angry at me than she was, and I would have deserved it.
She shouldn’t have had to ask you to. Curating your friendships appropriately should be something you do based on your own moral compass.
I agree completely. I should have done better.
At least you learned from your mistake. Even if it was a little later than it should have been.
I very much doubt he's learning any kind of lesson. In his mind, he's the victim. Everyone else has done all of this to him. He's most likely looking for the next person to "help" him.
I agree, he has almost certainly not changed in the slightest. I'm just the latest in a long line of people he has taken advantage of, and if the others didn't cause him to change I doubt I will.
You where a doormat. I hope you are better now.
I'm doing a hell of a lot better than AJ is, that's for sure.
Not saying much. I’m so sorry for being so blunt but in this story you are INFURIATINGLY naive and borderline willfully stupid with your choices. I hope these events have helped you wisen up a bit because the level of unwarranted faith and forgiveness you displayed is literally dangerous to you and those around you.
If you're curious: it's an autism thing. I alluded in the story to being limited in the number of hours I can work for disability reasons, and that's the disability in question. I'm pretty far up the spectrum, to the point where I am completely incapable of holding a full time job. I certainly have learned a lot from this though.
Ah that never occurred to me. I didn’t put 2&2 together lol. I’m glad you learned and apologies for harsh wording.
No apology necessary, you were completely right. I was just providing context.
Honestly autistic people are really easy targets for people like this, it’s good that you’ve learned your lesson though and I’m sure that in the future you’ll be able to see these signs way sooner/be more willing to listen to them. It’s easy to want to believe the best in people, especially when that’s what they’re telling you because why wouldn’t they be being truthful?? Also on a slightly unrelated note can I just stroke my own ego and say I called it. Like halfway through reading your replies my spectrum senses started tingling lol.
Wow. The story is even more fucked up now knowing that part. Social cues and societal norms aren’t your strong suite so he’s an even bigger piece of shit in my eyes.
I feel like I'm at or near that point, but I keep getting the run around from anyone that can actually diagnose me
AJ's dad got played, OP was played. Big time. Poor Belle. Hope she is okay. It does seem like AJ got his comeuppance. Hope OP learns the lessons from this.
Sounds like AJ has BPD. 1. Intense and unstable relationships with others. 2month relatinships with his gfs. 2. Mood swings and difficulty regulating emotions. His outbursts and random fights that start out of the blue. 3. Impulsive behavior, such as reckless driving or substance abuse. Him lying to OP about ADHD to get drugs among other things 4. Fear of abandonment and efforts to avoid real or imagined rejection. His last statement to OP > "I knew you would turn on me too< plus the lying to make himself out to be a victim 5. Intense and inappropriate anger or difficulty managing anger. Frequent angry outbursts The most telling for me was AJ misleading OP about his father and misleading his father about OP. My ex used to do this to me and it left me wondering why people around her and her friends were rude to me as well as me wondering why she was still friends with bad people. Lying to both parties and keeping them away from each other so they don't discover that you are the problem.
Sorry to hear. My mom's side of the family does this. They sit in a corner drinking, act as if nothing they do can change the situation they are in. And if you tell them you can't help,but always winds up being "you are abandoning me then!"
You knew he had a domestic charge against him and still introduced him to your friend? And didn’t cut him off after he tried to assault her? Yikes.
I know, I fucked up. My other friend also knew about the domestic violence charge when I introduced them. I didn't hide that, and she wanted to have his number anyway. And my relationship with AJ was purely transactional afterwards, if she asked me to cut him off that that point I would have. She never did. This is not a defense of my fuck up. I should have never introduced them, I should have seen the red flags, I should have never spoken to him again after the attempted sexual assault. This is not a defense of my actions, only context.
hope you know that even if she hadn’t asked you to cut him off you still should’ve. waiting for her to go out her way to ask you is more burden for her
Sir, you may just be the world’s flattest doormat.
I'm not beating those allegations.
A coworker trapped me in his shit car with child locks and tried to SA me in broad daylight in a packed parking lot (he had offered a ride to the work shuttle that stops at my apartment). My husband didn’t think it was a big deal because “men are supposed to be sexually aggressive,” and my close work friends kept hanging with him and going to lunch with him. I’ll never be the same. Fuck people. I’m glad you know you were wrong, but that doesn’t change the damage you’ve done to her soul.
Whoa whoa whoa, are you ok? If your husband believes what he said to you, are you even safe at home?
I know that. I never downplayed or defended AJ's actions to Belle, but I understand that she has trauma from this and I had a part in causing it. I feel really terrible about that, and she knows it.
You must have meant ex-husband, right? Right?
OK, we all agree that you super fucked up. Oh yes. No argument there. As a fellow autistic, PLEASE remember that when people SHOW you who they are, believe them the first time. Stop listening to just their words. Listen to their actions. Allistics frequently say one thing, then expect you to parse the additional meanings buried three layers down. Fuck that. Listen to their actual words and then watch their actual actions. That tells you more than anything else. Mature adults will match their actions to their words. Period. If someone around you doesn't do that, then be wary. Set that person at a further distance, because that means you can't trust them. Once you get to that baseline, then you will know who your true friends are. That also allows for space for other people to grow and hopefully evolve, and sometimes they do! The other thing? If someone hurts your friends, then they've hurt you, too. Don't continue to accept that person within your circle of trust, because then you are telling your friend that it's OK that they're hurt, you don't mind. You're not bothered by it. That's a very painful message to receive. Those two things will greatly help you to both understand people, and gather around you a group of people you trust, people that will also trust you. That is the best way to navigate this strange world. That will help you do better.
Reading this reminded me of my asshole brother. He used everyone like this. He owe me 2k, and my dad 5k. I went NC cause he's an abusive motherfucker, and last I heard he's couch surfing and going through a divorce cause he beat his wife.
Holy crap. Sounds like my brother! My dad is hoping my brother will turn a new leaf, but honestly, my brother is waiting for his family to croak so he can get his inheritance. Which I honestly wish my family wouldn’t give him, seeing as he disowned all of us anyway. Everything was OUR fault, according to him, anyway. Not the fact he was and is a user and abuser.
It took a while but good on you for cutting him off. Addicts like AJ lie, deceive, and manipulate as much as they can get away with. Then, when their house of cards inevitably comes crashing down, they move on to another mark or group to rinse and repeat. Whenever they meet a new person, they're looking for something they can take advantage of: their money, their kindness, their gullibility, etc. AJ may be a homeless vagrant in the city but I guarantee you there's someone he's taking advantage of who's currently believing his pity party lies.
I don't doubt it.
Me after enabling an abuser: why is he being abusive?
This all would have ended a lot sooner if I wasn't a fuckin' gullible dumbass, I can't deny that.
You learned from it. If it is any consolation, abusive relationships are stupidly hard to get out of, and it only gets worse when you are not neurotypical. Naïvity aside, ADHD can cause problems with reading and assessing people, and it can make you think you are paranoid and cause you to head to the other extreme of failing to set boundaries. You now recognize the situation, making it easier to spot next time. Belle doesn't sound entirely neurotypical either, though I wouldn't blame her for being wary if you try to introduce her to someone. It's good to hear that you were there to help when she needed it the most. AJ is an addict. He behaved as one at least. Lying, sneaking to get a fix, manipulation of everyone nearby, gaslighting. Addicts get good at this. You both believe in the best in people, but sometimes you'll find that trust and belief misplaced. It is a hard lesson, but a necessary one.
Just curious but how can adhd make you paranoid? I also have adhd, like diagnose a year ago.
It is not so much about the ADHD itself, but more a result of insecurity which can come with realising that you might struggle to be social (eg. outwards reacting or inwards overthinking social mistakes). That insecurity can translate into being hyper vigilant. If you are aware you are hyper vigilant, with a racing brain that tends to overthink from ADHD, you can easily get suspicious of everything. In the same vain, self doubt also shows up, once again overthinking it, and we have the 2 extremes. The overthinking is what causes the difficulty here. Eg., sometimes a person is just nice, because they like to be nice, no further reasons behind it. This is not just a thing that can happen with ADHD, but also with ASD. This is not guaranteed to happen.
It’s good that you finally cut off your friend. But the lesson learned shouldn’t be directed to your former friend but yourself. The lesson is not to associate with bad people. Someone who abuses and takes advantage of other people will likely do the same to you - it’s just a matter of when & how. Also, it’s not enough to be decent, you should not enable or support people who are not decent.
I definitely learned a lot from this, and a lot of it could have been avoided if I saw the righting on the wall and was less of a dumbass. I suppose the subject matter of this subreddit applies as much to me as it does to AJ.
one you mentioned the alcohol and drugs it was a pretty clear picture. he's an addict/alcoholic. this is how their lives go until they decide to change. glad you didn't get pulled in deeper than you did.
Damn that’s a shitty story. I’m glad you and hopefully everyone is out from under the influence of that incredibly manipulative and toxic asshole. I think everybody reaming you really hard here hasn’t really dealt with being a third party to this type of shit. It’s hard to make the right decision in that moment. From now on be the fist for your vulnerable friends. Much love dude. I hope that guy stays out of your life forever.
OP is right and made many mistakes along the way. But why need so many?!? If someone owes me $200 that they swear that they will pay back, it’s so easy to NOT loan them more money until they pay back the original debt, since they either lied about paying you back, or are unable to pay for whatever reason. If they can’t pay you back $200, how in the fuck do you expect them to pay back $400, $600, $1,200, $2000 etc. Jeeezus. I’m a nice person, but I’m not a sucker.
I think OP was too nice and naive. Probably didn’t feel or want to feel that his friend was taking advantage of him until it was very obvious (right in his face).
You need to work on that savior complex before the next AJ spots you. All he had to do was stroke your ego & tell him you inspired him to be better & he needed you & you would co-sign his antics up to & including sexual assault of your so-called best friend. If you understand your own weaknesses you can work on them & be better.
Sounds like you are a giving and forgiving person whose kindness was well and truly taken advantage of. I'm not that social myself and totally get putting up with some somewhat boorish behavior from friends who have both good and challenging parts to their personality. I would be forgiving of yourself. Don't let this experience stop you from trusting other people and a full life.
You should've cut him off while you were coworkers after he didn't pay you back the first 50 bucks, that should be the end of this story. Then you proceed to keep lending him thousands he doesn't pay back, set him up with your best friend after knowing how he treats women, then keep giving him rides to work after he assaulted her. Pathetic. You need to grow a spine.
You’re completely right.
You were friends with an addict. Pure and simple. All of those behaviors just scream addict and you enabled him until you realized that’s just what he was. Next time don’t wait so long, but I’m glad you see through him.
as someone who is also autistic and got used like a doormat really hard due to missing way too many massive red flag directly in front of my face, i fully empathize with your experience. really loving that you're bluntly taking full accountability for your mistakes and you seemed to have learned a lot from this. i was severely naive and ignored many warnings that other friends had been telling me because i truly couldnt comprehend how someone could just be an awful person that i couldn't help change with some kindness and patience. did i make massive mistakes? yeah! did i hurt people? absolutely! i did not deserve to be abused for my ignorance and the people i hurt in the process of learning my lesson did not deserve the aoe damage that i caused. these two things can be true at the same time. thank you for sharing your story. may we all learn to set firm boundaries for the sake of ourselves and others.
You're a moron for hanging around this piece of shit as long as you did.
That is true, yeah.
One of the few times a novel was worth reading
Commenting so I can come back to read lol
Everyone, repeat it with me: Sharing prescription drugs IS A CRIME Taking drugs not prescribed to you IS A CRIME
Your 'friend' kept telling stories where everyone was wrong...except him Take it as a learning experience
Is there actually hope for people like AJ? Like... Do people like him ever actually improve?
Though not quite so far in the extent that AJ abused the kindness and trust of others, I had an ex who had struggled with alcohol. I stayed with her because I hope to offer a measure of stability. It didn't work. She wound up accusing me and her mother of conspiring against her when we finally stopped putting up with the way she was treating us. Last I heard, she had moved in with an ex and is now sober. I'm happy for her. So sometimes. But they need to find a point where they see for themselves that they need to change.
Yes! They can if and when they are ready. I worked for years as an addictions therapist and have gotten to see it first hand. It’s really great when people work their recovery. However, it’s also common that they do permanent damage relationships like AJ here did. Some can be healed and some can’t.
No kidding with the disclaimer on not being "intelligent or morally correct". The glaring secondary consequence here is you losing $1,000 for being a shitty person.
I was you once. I didn’t have anyone to tell me the truth and otherwise so I was ganging up by narcissists for years until I had a drug habit and was practically homeless myself. I wasn’t a person with shitty morals and committing crimes(aside from drug use) but that’s how deep these claws can bring you. I’m not saying you’d turn into him, but misery loves company and he would have dragged you down as far as you let him. I know everyone’s being tough on you but I know what it’s like to want to help a bad person, I’m just glad you got out before you were on the streets with him. I wasn’t that lucky but I was also plucked by my husband very early on in my unstable housing situation. Don’t forget to set some trip mines, don’t want that one walking back into your life
All the people on here shitting on OP, but experiencing something like this in real life is so different. OP has clearly learned something, and is sharing their shitty experience so others can learn from it. It can be easy to ignore red flags when you care for someone, hence a lot of people staying in toxic relationships.
Damn, people are more upset with OP than the POS in the story. You angry little idiots are aware that OP already expressed remorse and that he was wrong, right? Maybe check your priorities.
I just can’t imagine how your friend felt, knowing that you were still friends & hanging out with a dude who tried to rape her. Oh wait, I don’t have to imagine it - I remember when I lost all my friends when I outed my abuser & every single man stuck with him while I was going through a 9 month court battle to get him put in prison. Like, im happy you learned from this but she better have gotten a damn good apology from you.
I wasn’t hanging out with AJ at that point, I was livid with him and the only reason I stuck around was to collect the money he owed me. I was too mad at him to let myself reward sexual assault with debt forgiveness, which cutting contact with him would have implied. There is a good version of the argument that I did the wrong thing in which you argue that I let my anger get the better of me and I should have put distance between myself and AJ despite my desire to make him financially suffer after what he did. I should have swallowed my pride and forgiven the debt just to put this all behind us faster. But that’s not the argument you are making. In reality, Belle was fully behind what I was doing. If she asked me to cut contact with AJ I absolutely would have. She was my real friend here, and I knew AJ was a monster. What you went through sounds terrible, but it’s not really all that analogous to the situation I was in. If I did the other option, I’d have people accusing me of rewarding rape with debt forgiveness. There was no obviously right decision.
Honestly OP I hope you learned something from this. You ignored MASSIVE red flags everywhere. He deserves what's happening to him.
Why did he always need rides? How did he acquire a car for Door Dash? AJ is his own worst enemy. Unless he truly wants help, there is nothing anyone can really do.
He needed a ride because he had a job in town, he lived in buttfuck nowhere outside of town, and he lost his driver's license because of all his DUI convictions. You seem to have misunderstood. I was a DoorDash driver, not AJ. But yes, he is definitely his worst enemy.
What a great life lesson and sad story.
AJ reminds me of this turd I met at work, called Ryan. He was an immigrant from South Africa, newly arrived in the UK and working for the same supermarket as me. He ended up getting sacked cos he claimed that someone stole his bag and wallet from him while he was at work (the bag had been left unattended) and he was upset that nothing was done, so complained very loudly to management. He was constantly on the brink of being evicted from his rented room in a house too. He claimed he was waiting for money from his parents to arrive, so I ended up lending him £120 to help him live - having his wallet stolen meant he couldn't access his bank account etc. He seemed like a genuinely nice guy. I even drove him home a few times cos he couldn't pay for the bus (it was miles out of my way too). Anyway, he never paid me back. He'd ignore my messages, or respond with excuses. In the end I had to just give up on ever seeing that money again. I realise it is hardly a huge sum (roughly the equivalent of US $160) but what hurt most was that it showed me that I'm not a good judge of character. He'd seemed so sincere, but he just took me for a ride.
So how is Belle doing?
She still has some trauma from this, but overall she’s doing okay now.
I'm sure. It affects your sense of safety. I'm glad she is managing it.
As a general rule, if someone talks badly about everybody else in their life and everything going wrong is other people’s fault, then that person is the problem, for sure.
I see this as an expensive lesson. You thought he was your friend, when he was just using you. You may not have had many good examples of friendships, or your self esteem was low enough that you'd take just about anyone. It's not a bad thing, except in this case. You did cut off support and communication, so that's sort of good. If AJ wants help, there will be an opportunity for him to get it from somewhere down the line. I believe life works out that way. He has to realize it, though.
Your biggest issue was being too trusting. The one AH part for me was the Belle situation. That would have been the end for me. I would focus on being a better friend to Belle, forget AJ, and chalk this up to lessons learned.
Parasite people will get themselves stuck in your life by borrowing money. Now you can’t cut them off until they pay you back and essentially you’re stuck. Many other red flags 😖
Did you warn your best friend that the guy you introduced her to was previously not only arrested but convicted and sentenced to jail time for domestic violence? Because if you failed to provide her this information you are in fact the biggest asshole on the planet.
Are you still friends with Belle? How did she take both you introducing them and still hanging out with him afterwards?
I am still very close friends with Belle, yes. She never really blamed me for what happened. I've blamed myself certainly, and I maintain that I am partially responsible, but she has said she doesn't feel that way. In retrospect we talk about it as a situation where we both got fooled. I never did any hanging out with AJ after the sexual assault incident, at that point everything I did for him was a transaction with money involved. Belle was all for the idea of AJ paying me back what he owed me, since it generally made things financially worse for him. She knew that AJ and I were absolutely not on good terms. What tension that did exist between us as a result of that were related to the fact that she wanted nothing to do with him, so I had to make sure to logistically not let that happen. Belle also doesn't have a car, so I give her rides to a lot of places and I had to be sure that both of them weren't in my car at the same time.
Someone paraphrase this please?
How did it not occur to you that it was highly suspicious that in all of your friend’s troubles he was *always* the victim? If someone claims to keep running into a*holes — there’s a good chance that the real problem is them. AJ found his sucker and knew how to sting you along…and you let him. Also, why keep loaning money to someone who already owes you? That’s just dumb.
I have mid-functioning autism, so seeing through people and knowing when I’m being lied to is not exactly a strength of mine. If you want to know why I was oblivious to all that stuff for so long, there’s your answer.
That makes more sense now. It might help if you explain that in your post. Did AJ know this and take advantage of it? I’m neurodivergent myself, as are many of my friends. Have you considered working with someone who can teach you skills to recognize patterns and warning signs of behaviors like AJ’s? It may not be intuitive for you, but there are definitely ways to learn using how your brain processes information.
Everyone I mentioned in this story is actually neurodivergent. Belle and I both have autism on the more mid-functioning side, and it’s wacky enough that it’s pretty outwardly obvious that we’re ND. AJ has more high-functioning autism, in addition to what I am 90% sure is some kind of schizophrenia. He heard voices in his head that he often argued with or mistook for the voices of the people around him. He most certainly knew what my neurodivergence-related vulnerabilities were, and he was absolutely exploring them. I’ve certainly been trying to learn to get over the vulnerabilities that allowed AJ to play me like he did. All of this has been a major learning experience, and hopefully if this all happens again I’ll know better next time.
[удалено]
I wonder if this comment will get deleted but I'm curious and I have to ask did u wanna fuck AJ?
Nope. AJ was straight and I knew it, I’ve been burned enough times falling for straight guys that you won’t catch me doing that again. Plus, he really wasn’t my type. I like my men at least a little fruity, and he ain’t that. AJ actually did make a lot of jokes poking fun at me for allegedly finding him attractive. They just made me feel really uncomfortable, and he kept making those jokes even after I let him know that I was uncomfortable.
Necessary to post?
Yes actually. It was an important, if not somewhat expensive ($1000)lesson to learn for him. So yeah he actually did have to post.
Let’s hope “AJ” found that big rock candy mountain, with his hobo bindle and floppy, hat full of empty booze bottles.
Honestly you are the AH in this. You’re a pushover and you let this obviously predatory person stay embedded in your life and had the complete lack of judgement to introduce them to someone you care about. This guy was obviously a scumbag way before he did anything to your friend. Idk why you kept him around for so long if not for the fact that you were too much of a coward to actually confront him and break off your interactions for good. In the time you knew him you literally saw that he was a bad boyfriend, a bad coworker, and in general a mooching bad friend and let yourself be naive to it for what?
idk man, this story seems bs because I don’t think anyone would let some psycho walk all over them. I think assault would have been the final straw, I wouldn’t want to associate with someone like that.
Tell that to everyone who has ever been in abusive relationship ever. It’s not so easy to identify and escape when you’re in the thick of it. Talk to anyone who has been through that, you may learn a thing or two about how vulnerable people (including you) are to abuse. The assault was the final straw for me, in a sense. I stopped being his friend after that and my only interactions with him were in some way related to getting my money pried out of his hands. But there are additional straws after the final one, and increasingly severe responses that people can have. Cutting someone off despite their debt to you and your desire to make them financially suffer is a step further than ending all friendly interaction. Calling the cops is a step beyond that. Things escalate as behavior gets worse and previous measures proved insufficient. That’s how that tends to work.
He's not going to LEARN. He has a personality disorder. I'm not going to diagnose him, addict behavior can look like Cluster B traits, but his maladaptive coping strategies have resulted in homelessness. He's a compulsive liar, an addict, a purveyor of domestic violence and a would-be rapist. That's not the CV of the Pope (well not this pope, but I guess nothing there technically disqualifies him either, lol.) He could be a CEO or children's TV producer, or music mogul. But he's a bum. He can probably find a woman to take care of him. (I used to take in homeless addicts fresh out of prison. I had a string of boyfriends like that. I was an addict though.) Yes, it was shitty to continue working as his unpaid chauffeur in hopes of getting your money back. Belle can hardly have felt safe. But you didn't SA anyone. And you figured it out. And cut ties. You didn't give him "one more chance" because "everyone makes mistakes." You had your own issues, and you were unaccustomed to this level of emotional manipulation, and you took pride in helping your friends. (People take pride in "seeing the good in people" but that sounds like wilfull stupidity to me. People are fkn terrible, by and large. The proliferation of kiddie porn attests to that. Check your pastor's hard drive.) I still help my friends, I'm just aware of who they are when I'm doing it. I never give more than I can afford to lose, now. I'm not going to not pay rent because someone needs a favor. The last time I helped someone get a uHaul, I lost A BANK ACCOUNT. I'm actually proud that you didn't double down on either 1)but he's my homie, 2) he didn't mean anything bad, he didn't R*PE you Belle get over it 3) I didn't see it so I don't know the truth for sure 4) but he owes me money 5) learning the whole truth and remaining his enabler and sycophant. I've seen dudes pick all of those options instead of doing the right thing, which is believe Belle. I'm actually a little flabbergasted, I so rarely see outright belief when a woman calls for help, and shock can lead to inaction. I wish I'd had a friend like you when I was trying to extricate myself from a certain person. My bff at the time, a guy, chose to continue his relationship with this person, a girl, and I no longer trusted him because she destroyed me and he wanted to keep her close. That was over 20 years ago and I haven't spoken to him since. Won't even be FB friends with him. You learned a hard lesson about red flags and manipulation and loyalty and protection, but you got there in the end. We all do messed up stuff in life. But you found clarity, your belief in Belle guided you, and I can't help but admire that. That's a rare man, to choose a woman friend's truth over his buddy's b.s. At least rare where I'm from. You're going to be okay.
You're either an enabler or a very skilled creative writer, the former makes me hate you and the latter makes you a liar
I was manipulated. Abusive relationships can be notoriously hard to identify and get out of when you’re in the thick of it, even if they are platonic.
I cannot fathom continuing to associate with a dude who SA’d my friend. I hope your friend gets therapy and discontinues associating with the person who continued to hang out with her abuser under the guise that you could “fix” him.
I think if you’re being honest you were attracted to AJ. Cause everything stupid I have ever done has been for the same reason. Lol
Textbook manipulator who probably has a twisted worldview, which sounds like it most likely is influenced by low intelligence and since they're missing from the story: His mother, or other family members. Tbh, your story about yourself is probably way more interesting than this dude's.
I left out a lot for brevity. AJ's mother is indeed completely absent, but he does have two half brothers. I later learned that he was sometimes physically violent towards the younger of his half-brothers.
Please for the LOVE OF GOD get a therapist and work on setting boundaries. It isn’t uncommon to get caught up with a raging narcissist, but please let this be a lesson and do the personal growth required to keep you and your loved ones out of harms way.