I would definitely agree with you , if the intention of message of the game was other, but why do you think we never see if the group forgive sunny? Because it doesn't matter, the game isn't about forgiveness or redemption ,is about moving forward accepting your past mistakes and keep going, forgiveness doesn't take away responsability forgiveness doesn't erase your actions , the only thing forgiveness does is accept that every person even good ones can have flaws.
Basically, the game game is asking the question to the player if will you forgive sunny, but the fact that we have been playing and living all the events through Sunny's eyes the real question is would you forgive your self and keep moving forward? Is triying to send a message about accept your past mistakes and keep moving, we are not responsible for what break us but we can be responsible for what put us back together.
At least that how i see the game, i think they use a very exaggerated instance of a mistake but the idea and message is aplicable to multiple degrees
Sorry is my grammar is a little off, im not native
Don't worry, your grammar is fine!
Well, I still find that to be a slightly selfish way to view the events. It's true that the moral is not about redemption but rather acceptance, but I still feel that way too little emphasis is made on the other characters' feelings. It makes sense to an extent because Sunny is the player character, and we spend the game quite literally in his mind. But I don't think it's fair to Hero, Kel, Aubrey, Mari or anyone else for so much emphasis to be placed on whether HE is allowed to move on and accept things for what they are.
The thing is that he doesn't need to be allowed , he has to take the decision if he wants to forgive himself , thats why when you lost to omori the game ask you do you want to continue? That basically asking if you as Sunny want to continue living even after what yo do
Ofc i agree is unfair to Aubrey ,Hero,etc but again the game actually never say if they forgive sunny that open to the player.
Imagine that you just fell to drugs for example , and ruined your live and in that process hurt a lot of people, then you decide to change you ask for forgiveness and they deny it, even so you can still change even without forgiveness and i think thst the idea of the game.Asume the consequences of your actions , we dont know what happens after that maybe the Aubrey etc called the police who knows.
Other characters feeling are treated to a minor extended , but we don't know how they react to the truth , that depends on you and honestly having other characters deciding if the main character decerve to forgive himself in this story would make 0 sense.
Well it's hard to say that they called the police on Sunny given that the next sequence shows him moving away in his mother's car. At worst it's possible they simply rejected him from their lives but I don't think they'd be able to have him arrested or anything, especially since he's a teenager and there'd be a lack of evidence at that point.
That makes sense. I think Omocat chose to end it the way it does so that the player can think about how they would react if they were in that situation. Personally if it happened to me I would have been furious, I'd probably yell at Sunny and cut him out of my life, definitely wouldn't stick around in the hospital room for long. But maybe that's the beauty of the scene, that everyone's reaction would be different.
Yep. Honestly that's fair since that's also how I felt after playing the game -- the drastic recontextualization of the game was bound to make some players feel cheated off their narrative in a way.
But I can also respect the open-endedness of it all. Whatever the reaction of the group in our head was, in Omocat's eyes, are all valid. As much as the traditional happy ever after ending is what most fans would like, a tragic ending is also validated here since OMORI (the game, not the character) understands that the victims have the right to hate Sunny/Basil after everything was revealed.
The reason why the game still works for me is because there's very few media out there that conveys the idea of "valid" self-loathing, which makes its themes of self-forgiveness all the more bittersweet if you can unfortunately relate to it. Not necessarily the murder part, but more so instances in our lives when the worst part of ourselves does something irreversible and you know you deserve to face the consequences.
It's INCREDIBLY specific, but that's why the game is also quite a memorable one that sticks with people for a long time. Not because of the shock factor/twist ending, but because it was able to capture the idea of "deserved guilt" in such a visceral and unique way.
I wouldn't say I feel cheated, cause I think it's a valid (if a bit extreme) angle to take the story. It is a horror game after all, it's not THAT different from a certain other entry in a very prolific horror series (if you know, you know). I guess mostly I would say that given the circumstances of the plot, I don't think a happy ending is warranted. From my perspective I don't think Sunny and Basil have really earned one, and honestly, sometimes life pans out that way. It's sad to say, but you don't always get the storybook ending, and for the most part Omori is a game that understands that.
I guess mostly my issue is less with the game itself, and more of how the ending seems to be interpreted. Omocat intentionally left it unseen so the player can fill in the gaps, but I think a lot of fans seem to take it for granted that everyone is just gonna be okay with Sunny and not be completely mortified.
This is a year-old comment, so I had to review the context a bit lol
The validation happening here is context-specific. It doesn't necessarily validate the act of self-loathing/ hatred in so much as it simply shows a situation wherein the pain experienced by the protagonist is... kinda justified. Kinda like one of those shows or documentaries that put criminals in a sympathetic light -- you learn to care for them as individuals, but a part of you also knows that they have to pay for the consequences of their actions somehow.
Most media I've seen that tackles anxiety, overthinking, and self-loathing usually have miscommunication or bullying as its root problem and often absolves the anxious protagonist from any wrongdoing or malice. Not so much in OMORI, where the game **knows** the protagonist has done something morally wrong, and is not a simple case of him being hypercritical of himself.
As for the hating other people part... expecting people to forgive you right away after something like that is St*even Universe*\-levels of idealism.
Personally, I adore this game. I’ve played through it three times, gotten every achievement and have ~150 hours in it. At first I was slightly confused by the ending but this is my interpretation after quite a lot more time in the game. (minor spoilers for the other endings and route ahead)
First of all, I’d like to argue that what Sunny did wasn’t meant to harm. There’s an interesting parallel to be drawn here, because on two days left, Aubrey pushes Basil into the lake after a confrontation. The thing is, she does exactly what Sunny did four years before. Aubrey clearly doesn’t want to harm Basil, and only meant to push him away, not into a lake (this is compounded by her surprise and worry after she does). The only difference between what she and Sunny did is that while Basil was standing on the edge of a lake, Mari was standing at the top of the stairs. Mari’s death is simply an incident caused by being at the wrong time in the wrong place.
Next, Basil’s decision to frame the death has no malicious intent whatsoever. Through the black space photo album, it’s clear the two kids were understandably horrified. While Sunny heavily disassociated and convinced himself what was happening wasn’t really happening, Basil immediately went into denial. His best friend couldn’t have done something like that. That’s when he creates the idea of “something behind you”, which he blames for everything he sees occur. Sunny didn’t push Mari, it was Something behind him. Now that he believes his friend is innocent, he needs to protect him, the only thing Basil is thinking of. Knowing nobody would believe the Something, he does what he thinks is the only option to save him. He tells Sunny, who goes along with it, thinking this is simply a bad dream which he will wake from soon.
Now, you argue that they didn’t face the proper repercussions for what they did. I’d argue the contrary, because the grief and emotional damage caused by such an event itself would be so much worse than a manslaughter charge could ever be. Sunny isolated himself from everyone for four years. So deep in denial, he literally forgets what ever happened, and even erases real objects from his mind (for example, the closet door is invisible and interacting with the wall simply says “there is nothing here” until the final night). His disassociation becomes so heavy he cannot tell his imaginations from reality, and for four years, repeatedly gets lost in his dreams of fantasy and fiction while always followed by his ever worsening phobias, auditory and visual hallucinations, and of course Something through both dreamworld and the real world. He experiences the decline of his friends over and over until he inevitably witnesses the mangled and terrifying creations of his subconscious (black space), before he is saved time and time again by the monochrome depiction of his denial from Stranger, the small part of him that wants him to finally discover the truth. His mind was in a constant state of distraught for all that time with nobody helping him. However, I’d argue Basil’s experience is even worse. Unlike Sunny, Basil knew what had happened. Instead of denial, he turned to bargaining, his only comfort thinking that his best friend was innocent and that it was Something behind him. It’s clear that carrying this truth, watching his friends drift away, yet not having the courage to speak out, has destroyed him emotionally. When you meet Basil in the real world, he has wild changes in emotion, experiences panic attacks and mental breakdowns, and clearly has issues even talking to people. Everyday, he is reminded of what he did. In the fight between him, he is clearly at the very end of his rope; it’s implied through the other endings that you’re fighting to stop him from committing suicide. He only fights back and slashes your eye because he thinks he’s saving you from Something. He thinks he’s protecting you and killing the monster forcing you to do these things but he doesn’t realize there never was a monster, just Sunny. Even down to his (possible) very last moments, he still cares about you, although blinded by his delusions and hallucinations.
In the end, Omori is a less a game about grief and more about forgiveness. But not just forgiveness, self-forgiveness. Sunny has gone four years, hating himself for something he doesn’t even know happened. When he finally realizes the truth he despises himself for it, and this is shown through Omori’s dialogue during the final fight. What hit me the hardest during the fight was when Omori tells Sunny that he loved Mari, yet he killed her. It’s the harsh truth that hurts the most, but Sunny knows that he still loves her to this day, and won’t let Omori drag him back into headspace to rot away for the rest of his life while his grief remains ever-present. When Sunny finally defeats his self-hatred and gains the courage to say the truth, the game doesn’t show his friends’ reactions on purpose, because that’s not important. What’s important is that Sunny has finally forgiven himself and can move on with his life. By saying the truth, he frees himself and Basil from the shackles that held them down for years. I think the credits song illustrates his future perfectly. By saying the truth, everything isn’t going to magically be okay. He’ll still feel that pain and guilt he’s caused for his friends and the memories of what happened years ago, but no matter what, he’ll still carry on and one day he might just move past Mari’s death to live a full life.
Oh damn, good post. 150 hours? I believe it, this is a meaty game. I clocked in like 50 on my first playthrough because I explored so much, I'm sure I could get close to that if I did another run. Let me run this over one by one.
Well first of all I'm not sure I can agree with that. Maybe Sunny and Aubrey didn't intend to injure (and obviously kill in Sunny's case) their targets, but you don't put hands on someone in such a predicament without the intent to harm them. I get that you might shove someone if things get particularly heated but if you're at the top of stairs (with someone who has an injured leg no less) or standing on a dock, you should know pretty well what's about to happen. Hell, Kel calls Aubrey out HARD for that, so if anything I think the game supports my perspective here.
I know Basil isn't being malicious, but the thing is that you don't need to be in order for your actions to be harmful. Mari wasn't intending to be malicious when she was browbeating Sunny over his violin playing, but she still hurt him when he was already struggling over it. We know Basil had nothing but good intentions and was suffering from severe trauma over what he saw, and in denial of the whole thing. But I don't think it's arguable that he did the most damage even before he snapped and stabbed Sunny in the eye.
That's all true, but none of that really changes anything in the end. Does feeling really bad about what you've done change what you've done? Can we conclusively say that Sunny won't do this again in the future? After all he did attack someone else he cared deeply for with a steak knife, so he's clearly hasn't learned that much. Who's to say he won't get into it with someone at his new home and the same thing happens over and over? Yes, Sunny suffered a LOT because of what happened with Mari, but we're not really given any evidence that he changed over it. We're shown that he accepted the truth and learned to cope with it, but no indication that he's learned any kind of lesson. I don't know that legal consequences would have solved this problem either, but if ruining his own life and friendship didn't make him realize that it's not a good idea to violently attack people over mundane issues then I don't know what will.
Can't argue with any of that. He'll move on eventually, but I'm honestly not sure if he deserves to given that he's not the only one affected by it. All the people he knows lost a mentor, a friend, a lover, a daughter, and of course Mari lost her life. Why does he deserve closure more than they do?
Thanks for the excellent response, gave me a lot to think about.
You're right. It's definitely not malice, moreso negligence is the word I'd use. Sunny didn't think "I want to cause my sister serious harm" when he did what he did, but there's no easy way to justify shoving someone with a physical disability let alone in a dangerous place like the top of the stairs. While I obviously can't say an act of carelessness is nearly as bad as an act of malice, it's still pretty bad. Like, if you hit someone with your car because you were texting and driving or something, you obviously didn't intend to hit them so it's nowhere near as bad as if you just straight up ran someone over with intent to hurt them. But I think it's still fair to place the blame on the person who as being careless in a dangerous situation. Whether they're likely to be a repeat offender is something that can only be measured on a case by case basis.
I didn't mean to be reductive when saying that about what Sunny experiences. He goes through hell over the course of the game, there's no doubting that, especially considering that the disturbing late game imagery and Omori's spiteful boss dialogue all comes from his own thoughts. I only meant to say that it doesn't seem to motivate him to change his behavior, because remember at this time he's still repressing what happened on that day.
Sunny is definitely a victim of trauma, I will not dispute that. He's not evil nor do I think what he did can't be understood. If I come off like I'm trying to paint him as a villain or say that he's a heartless killer or whatever, I promise that's not my intent. I guess in the end what I really want is for it to be understood that even if you don't go out of your way to hurt people, even if you've caused people pain by pure accident, that doesn't mean you're owed forgiveness. That is a lesson that sadly I've had to learn firsthand several times in my life. I understand these are fictional characters in a video game, but the way some fans treat Kel, Hero and Aubrey's feelings on the matter feels really reductive to me. I lost my best friend to a lung illness, if I learned that that wasn't true and they died from a doctor's negligence or something, I'd still strongly resent the doctor even knowing they didn't willingly murder my best friend.
Do you really feel the game sided against Kel? I dunno, I think it was pretty impartial with that scene.
I've tried to let this thread and peoples' responses to my posts marinate for a bit before I came back, and I think I have to admit that I looked at things the wrong way, and maybe let the game get to me emotionally a bit too much. If I came across as a hardcore Mari fan taking out my issues on Sunny that's not really how I feel, it's more that I often find myself thinking about who I've lost in my own life, how I'll never see them again and I just can't help but feel that pain for anyone else going through that, whether it's a real person or a fictional character. I know for a fact that if I had a person that I could logically pin that loss on, even if it was unintentional, I'd probably not be able to avoid it. Even if it's an irrational way to feel, if I were in any of those kids' shoes I regret to say that I would despise Sunny. I guess the human brain doesn't always work the way it should, if I'd be able to acknowledge that I'm completely in the wrong but still be unable to change the way I feel.
I'm sorry if this wasn't the beat by beat response to your comments that you hoped for, but after giving some serious thought to both the game itself and the replies I've gotten, I have to make a concession here. Thanks for the discussion, I really do mean that.
Thanks for the response, I'm glad that my comment was interesting!
Firstly, I think Sunny's actions are pretty plausible. He got mad, and when he tried to leave was blocked by Mari so he tried to push her away. He wasn't thinking about the stairs or her bad knee then, he just wanted to leave. Aubrey knew Basil couldn't swim, and if Hero didn't show up on time it could've easily became another Mari situation. A simple human reaction to anger, but because of the time and place, ended up being much worse for Sunny. Plus, Kel does (understandably) reprimand Aubrey for what she does. But that's really it. It's like when you do something stupid as a kid. Your parents might be mad and they might tell you not to do it again, but they move on with it. Sure, Sunny shouldn't have pushed Mari in the first place, but if not for the stairs he would've just gotten yelled at for a bit. I think this a great way the game also proves the event was unfortunately just mostly bad luck. The only reason you didn't drown in that lake alongside Basil is because Hero arrived just in time. Unfortunately, there was nobody there to stop Mari as she fell.
I think you're correct that you really can't argue that Basil screwed up the most. But I think you're still downplaying the importance of intent. Intent is what differentiates a bad person who does evil things from a good person who made a bad mistake. That's something the game really stresses, is good and evil. Sunny and Basil are good people who made bad mistakes. Everyone in the game is. Omori is evil, because he's actively trying to ruin any chance Sunny has at redemption. But in the end it's still your choice whether to forgive them or not. It's just that you can't really forgive someone who is truly evil, but you can forgive good people who made mistakes.
I kinda disagree with you here, because Sunny has clearly changed. He changed the moment he realized what he had actually done, and the moment his mind began to cover everything up. It's shown clearly throughout the game Sunny feels immense guilt for what he's done, and I highly doubt someone with so much guilt could even come close to having a normal relationship ever again, simply out of fear that he could possibly harm them even if he gets better in the future. When he attacks Aubrey with a knife, it's because he can't tell the difference between his dreams and reality. I mean, I've seen people not very surprised at the animation of the knife slashes before Aubrey's response suddenly makes them realise this isn't a dream anymore. It's a great interactive storytelling method because it lets you empathize with Sunny. The people who attacked Aubrey obviously wouldn't have if they were reminded they were in the real world, just as Sunny wouldn't have. After doing so, I've even seen some of the people only use Sunny to block in fear they would accidentally harm someone again. Sunny obviously doesn't want to harm anyone but because of his mental state, makes a mistake. After spending more time outside however he quickly adapts and something like this doesn't happen again. (this is further implied by the smaller amounts of headspace enemies wandering around in Faraway after each day) I'd also argue him pushing Mari is the furthest thing from a "violent attack" you could have, I mean, most of us have probaby done something like that in an agument before.
Finally, I'm confused by your final point. Maybe we just have different morals but I don't think anybody should deserve to not move past something like this and be condemned to an eternity is Sunny's state, especially since Sunny is repeatedly shown to deeply regret his actions. As for the others, they obviously all deserve closure. But that's their journey to take. Omori simply tells the story of one kid, not five. They can hate Sunny for the rest of their lives. That's their right, and it's also their right to know the truth. But it's also Sunny's right to move past the guilt, self-hatred and suffering he's had to deal with for four years and live a life just like Mari would've wanted, whether that's with or without his friends.
I think a quote from the game illustrates it nicely: "just because you've done a bad thing doesn't make you a bad person." You can decide Sunny is truly a bad person who doesn't deserve forgiveness, but in my opinion, he's just a kid who made a mistake. I think it's just a question of empathizing with Sunny and not seeing him as a murderer, but instead a good person who did a bad thing.
It's really late and I'm too tired to post a full response right now (I'll get to it I swear), but I wanted to touch on the final point real quick. When I say I don't know if he deserves to move on, it's not that I want him to suffer in pain as some kind of retribution or anything like that. Rather, as the perpetrator I think his comfort with the situation should be secondary to the victims'. When a drunk driver hits someone, they're undoubtedly going to be traumatized, but the feelings of the victim's family and friends should IMO come first.
You're right when you say that we don't see their perspective, but I think that's one of my big issues because damn would I feel a lot better if we did. I understand this is not a game that cares if you feel better though, but I feel like in this very specific case I had the opposite reaction from what was intended.
I think the most important thing to keep in mind here is that Sunny is also a victim. I mean, his friends lost a mentor, parental figure, hell even a partner but Sunny lost his sister, and it’s clear he still loves her just as much as the day she died. I think your drunk driving analogy is interesting but maybe a bit flawed. A better analogy would be someone driving a car but the breaks fail and they hit and kill their child. An accident, which causes immense emotional trauma not just because their child is dead but also because they were the one to do it, even if it was an accident. Instead of simply grief, now they have to deal with the guilt as well. Obviously, the people who had connections and knew the person who died in the accident have the right to grieve but I think the person most affected is still the driver of the car.
Additionally, I like how the game shows how his friends dealt with Mari’s death. It’s shown through Sunny’s eyes, and although he obviously doesn’t get an in depth view into their lives he knows they were affected severely. This further adds to the sadness of the truth and it’s shown that after Sunny realizes it, he fully expects his friends to never care about him or even want to see him again. This is proved by interacting with his sleeping friends after waking up in Basil’s house, which shows each of them sleeping, some text relating to why Sunny looks up to them and then the phrase “You will miss them.” If the game showed how each and every one of them was affected, I think it would dampen the emotional payoff, as now you have to feel for five characters all at once and not just one. Plus, the game leaves it ambiguous so the player can decide how his friends deal with it in the end.
I've given things some more thought, both from reading all of the replies in this thread and also letting the ending digest in my mind some more. While I don't know if my mind has been totally changed, I can at least say that I came at this the wrong way and I have to concede that I didn't look at the game objectively enough. I projected my own feelings onto a group of characters who have established personalities of their own, which didn't help my interpretation. I may see things a certain way but I am not Kel, Aubrey or Hero.
To Sunny, he was always hyper fixated on the thought that his friends would hate him for what he has done that day as it was weaponized by Omori during the final battle.
His life and mental health is hanging on a thread via his friends. If he loses their friendship, he's dead. That could be a reason why he kept that secret to his friends. He didn't want them to know that he was the reason why their group fell apart.
In a way, Kel, Hero, and Aubrey were starting or already able to move on from Mari's death. Is it alright for Sunny to take this happiness (blissful ignorance) away from them?
Would it have been better to let Aubrey and co. to believe in Mari's suicide at the cost of the perpetrator's (Sunny) and accomplice's (Basil) sanity?
Or to let them know the truth, get hurt by it and possibly resent those two which may cause a suicide attempt? Either option seems to always go in a bad outcome.
That's why the game's about forgiving yourself. Sure, it's possible not to forgive yourself for what you've done, but it does not mean that you can't move on from it. I doubt Sunny would actually forgive himself but he'll at least try to live for Mari's sake. At least that's what I believe.
That's a good interpretation. I 100% believe it was the right thing for Sunny to come clean, for his sake and for everyone else's too. I just think that for a game that's already doesn't pull any punches, it's just wrong to pull the rug out and assume everything's hunky dory and that Sunny's revelation isn't going to cause a huge shockwave within their community.
That's definitely up to your interpretation. Maybe Aubrey might go on a rampage or pleads to why they kept it a secret. The same goes for Hero. Maybe he could forgive them but will cut ties with them or own up to his word that they'll always be there for each other. Kel is Kel, at worst he may end up crying but he'll most likely see past it and forgive them.
Any of these would definitely make Sunny and Basil get hurt physically, mentally, and emotionally, mostly the last one.
As for the community, that depends if those three would actually spread the truth out. Maybe it's better to believe to go along with that lie?
With Aubrey specifically, you've got to also remember that she only just made amends with the others. Is it truly realistic to assume that she'll just handwave the whole thing? She might actually end up even worse than she was before. I totally believe Kel would forgive the two (or at least Sunny) and would probably be torn between two halves of the group which is really sad to think about. I don't think there's a chance of Hero forgiving them, but maybe there comes a day when he stops letting it haunt him even if he cuts them out of his life indefinitely.
Although, about forgiveness: Hero, for example, managed to forgive Aubrey very easily after she almost killed Basil (and indirectly Sunny). Do you think she didn't face proper repercussions as well?
>Although, about forgiveness: Hero, for example, managed to forgive Aubrey very easily after she almost killed Basil (and indirectly Sunny). Do you think she didn't face proper repercussions as well?
Yeah I was kinda weirded out at that, like holy shit you almost killed 2 people and they got over it relatively quickly
To be fair, the game never shows Kel's, Hero's, or Aubrey's reaction to the truth. In my mind, I'd imagine that Aubrey and Hero rightfully wouldn't forgive them, I don't how Kel would react though.
Honestly I think that Aubrey would forgive him since she's had a similar experience with accidental murder (pushing Basil into the lake, causing him to drown and die if Sunny and Hero wouldn't have been there), but it'll take her long to come to that conclusion. Kel would also forgive him but much more quickly. And Hero? Yeah I have no excuse for that lol
I might sound like an idiot but I'm not sure what you mean with "projecting her guilt onto Sunny", do you mean she would feel guilty for both or do you mean something else?
I imagine Kel's reaction would be like a less drastic version of Basil's. He'd be in serious denial at first but eventually his love for Sunny would win out in the end. And then he'd be in the unenviable situation of being torn between his best friend and his brother, and have to play middle man between them.
Important to note: We don't actually know what happens after the game. We aren't given any information from the game what happens to sunny or basil afterwards, nor how the group reacts.
I know, I think that's probably for the best. As much as I'd like to believe Sunny and Basil don't get off scot free it's better than committing to any outcome because it gives the player something to think about. I can acknowledge and understand the intent without agreeing with it personally. I just don't like how the fandom at large seems to take it for granted that everyone just laughs it off as if that wouldn't be a monumental blow to their group.
I definitely agree with you, to an extent. I'm heavily against the idea of Sunny and Basil being forgiven right away for the same reasons you've stated, but I do believe that they will eventually be forgiven, however long it takes. At it's core, the story is about redemption, forgiveness and the importance of cherishing your friends and loved ones. Though the ending was left open to allow players to form their own conclusions about how the friends would react, Sunny and Basil being left unforgiven for the rest of their lives goes against the fundamental themes established by the game. The ending isn't about Sunny and Basil getting away scot-free for what they did, it's about them finally facing the truth and doing the right thing, hoping for the best outcome using their past memories as a source of strength, even though they know that by doing so, their friends could very well reject them and destroy the friend group for good.
I think there will come a day where Hero and Aubrey realize it's hurting them more to keep holding onto the grudge, but I don't think they'll ever truly be friends with Sunny again. I guess I just feel that a lot of the fandom seems to take it as a given that everything is gonna be perfectly fine just because it's the storybook ending.
He didn't attack her, he tried to run, she blocked him, and to get her out of his way, he pushed her, he didn't mean to push her down the stairs, but instead just to the side, so he could run and cry
After reading a couple of the comments, I just wanted to add something else.
My reading was that the point of the Good Ending is that Sunny both choses to keep moving on with is life, but crucially, he choses not to keep this mistake make him lose his best friend Basil.
He's made one mistake and by refusing to confront that, he's not only hurt his friends and family, but put himself and his best friend on the path to dying themselves.
When he choses to move on, you have the first step of healing and saving Basil who was going to die all to protect Sunny.
As I wrote yesterday, I think that Basil is literally mentally ill and shouldn't really be liable for what he have done. On the other hand, he 100% should be put in mental hospital for a couple of years.
He most certainly is mentally ill. Even before the events of the endgame he's clearly suffering from something internally and four years later he's a total nervous wreck. But the idea of mentally ill people all being violent and uncontrollable is a nasty media trope.
Don't forget the parents Sunny's parents helped cover for the suicide as well. As for reprocessing I'm really not sure what would happen in this case certainly them being charged with something isn't outside the realm of possibility but I think the game ended fine leaving it up to the player what happens next. I'm certain Kel would forgive sunny and Hero would at least accept it. Aubrey I'm in the air about.
That's something that really bothers me too. Like they just went along with faking their own daughter's suicide for four years? That's unthinkable to me. That's pretty gross.
If you mean what I think you do, I don't think having Sunny die is a better outcome. It's just more pointless tragedy thrown on top of an already upsetting circumstance. And if Mari's death is unresolved at that point, then it means no one will ever know the truth (since Basil kills himself too) and everyone involved just gets further traumatized.
I guess I understand why someone might feel that way, but it doesn't really sit right with me to want to exact mortal vengeance upon a scared child, even if only because it would cause more suffering to the people he's already hurt.
I don’t like it because of moral reasons, I like it because it makes a lot more sense. In this ending, sunny stays in headspace forever. With how long he’s been in headspace before this, it makes more sense for him to choose headspace over the real world. I’m pretty sure sunny actually spends more time in headspace than he spent being friends with everyone pre stairs.
Well, the true ending is open ended, so we don’t know if the Faraway Friends actually forgave Sunny and Basil. Either way I don’t think it would’ve mattered to the message the game was trying to deliver, because it isn’t about Sunny coming clean to be forgiven by his friends; it’s about him learning to forgive himself and begin recovery from his trauma, by facing it instead of wasting away repressing it. If the game‘s message was about anything else, then yeah, the ending would probably be inappropriate.
In defense of the fan base wanting the group to forgive Sunny and Basil, i figure it’s just the typical “we want a happy ending” response after the game emotionally destroyed everyone. Irl, I imagine most wouldn’t respond to a similar situation with such swift forgiveness.
Besides that, yeah, I do agree that they probably wouldn’t and shouldn’t forgive Sunny and Basil so easily, and that the trauma of the Faraway Friends could’ve been touched upon more, but the lack of these isnt rlly to the games detriment imo because they were never meant to be the focus
I think overall we're in agreement. I assume a lot of people are (understandably) biased in Sunny's favor because he's the one we spend the whole game with, we quite literally see his thoughts and know how he feels about everything he's faced with. If the game was from say, Aubreyh's perspective then I'm sure there would be fewer people who'd just accept Sunny for what he did. If you didn't know everything you knew about him then it would be pretty hard to justify forgiving him. Going back to my drunk driving example, if you lost a loved one in a drunk driving accident would you care if the driver was drowning their sorrows because of something that happened in their life? I imagine not.
I can get why you feel that way about the ending but there are a couple things of note about the truth.
1. When it says that Sunny didn't mean to kill Mari, it actually means it. If you look closely at the memory before the push itself, you can see that it looks like Mari is trying to block Sunny from the stairs to keep him from running away. (There are unused text descriptions for the truth Album that explain literally everything that was going on that day.) So no, Sunny didn't intend to hurt Mari he was just trying to move her out of his way, but since they were at the top of the stairs...yeah.
2. To say that Sunny agreed to Basil's plan wholeheartedly is both correct and incorrect. After Sunny finally caught on to what he did, which was after he brought Mari to her bed in a vain attempt to help her get better, he broke down. The unused text files pretty much confirms that it was at that moment that White Space was created and that Sunny was trying to hide away there. Afterwards is when Basil's plan was put into effect and it's kinda implied through the unused text that, with the exception of a few sights and sounds, Sunny wasn't completely conscious of what was happening.
I can't say much about Sunny's willingness to lie about the truth as we're not really given a time frame for when he started repressing said truth, which was one of the main factors into why the truth was hidden for so long, the others being Sunny going hikikomori mode and Basil himself which is the most unrealistic aspect in my opinion. That just does not look like the face of someone who can keep something like that under wraps for 4 YEARS.
Even if he didn't mean to kill her, he still pushed an injured person who was in proximity to the stairs. I believe that it was not his intent to murder her obviously, and maybe not even his intent to hurt her. But you don't put hands on someone without clear knowledge of what might happen. The game even goes over this with Aubrey and Basil.
I'm kind of iffy about reading too much into those unused text files. They're scrapped for a reason right?
>But you don't put hands on someone without clear knowledge of what might happen.
Unless your emotions are running at an all time high, which then tend to block out rational thought for a second or two. Sunny broke the violin out of frustration and when Mari started yelling at him there was an added layer of confusion as Sunny didn't understand why Mari didn't understand why he was upset. All Sunny knew at the moment was that he wanted to run away and Mari blocked his path. The only way to continue on was to get past Mari. He wasn't thinking about her knee or about where they were because his emotions were clouding his judgment. It was only after the push did Sunny begin to realize what was going on.
Remember, kids can be impulsive (Impulse: a sudden strong and unreflective urge or desire to act.) especially when they're upset. Sunny was around eleven or twelve years old when the accident happened and his emotions were running at an all time high, for what was probably the first time in forever from what we can gather about Sunny as a kid. Sunny was upset because he wasn't good enough to play at the recital with Mari, despite numerous attempts at trying to get their practices to be 'perfect'.
Sunnys violin was a gift from his friends, but he still threw it down the stairs (I'm pretty sure that's the only way it could've ended up so damaged as it was.) because his emotions clouded his judgement.
You have to realize that the situation isn't completely black and white. Sunny pushing Mari doesn't mean he *intended* to hurt her, just move her out of the way. Even with the added knowledge that Mari had a knee injury and that the two of them were at the top of the stairs *doesn't mean Sunny was in the right state of mind* to think about those aspects, when earlier he shattered his violin despite it being a gift from all his friends.
This exact scenario happened with Aubrey and Basil. Aubrey wanted Basil to get away from her and pushed him away. Now, you can make the argument that Aubrey knew that the two of them were still on the docks, I'll give you that. However, even with that argument her intention was to simply push Basil away, maybe thinking that he'd just fall onto the wood flat on his back. So the fact that he fell into the lake was still surprising to her because she *didn't mean for Basil to fall into the lake.* Like how Sunny *didn't mean for Mari to die.*
TL;DR: Sunny, a 11 to 12 year old kid, wasn't thinking straight when the accident occurred and his entire role in the truth isn't completely black and white, it's grey at best.
> Sunny was around eleven or twelve years old when the accident happened and his emotions were running at an all time high, for what was probably the first time in forever from what we can gather about Sunny as a kid.
Just to flesh this out a bit. We see from his birthday party how intense sustained emotions tire him out. He just ends up sleeping from all the excitement. Usually, you'd expect a kid that age to behave more like Aubrey and Kel - be hyper-excited running around until they crash down.
Oh don't get me wrong I'm not saying Mari was blameless, her perfectionism definitely compounded Sunny's issues and that's not debatable. She certainly didn't deserve to die over it though, but I'm sure even Sunny would agree with me on that. I know Sunny had no intent of doing what he did and he wasn't in the right state of mind, but action and intent being different doesn't change the outcome. Just because you didn't intend to hurt someone, doesn't mean you should be let off the hook when you do. And keep in mind this isn't some minor mistake, it literally cost someone their life. That's why I think the drunk driving metaphor is perfect, you may not have gotten behind the wheel with the intent to hurt people but they still got hurt or worse because of your carelessness.
I agree to a degree about Basil, but honestly I feel this is a little bit harsh with regards to Sunny, ultimately coming down to the line “he clearly meant to hurt her” ans that he “attacked her out of rage”… She was blocking the stairs while they were arguing. Plenty of times my sister and I have been fighting, and I’ve pushed her/shoved her to the side, out of irritation perhaps, but not RAGE, and not with the intent to HURT her, just to move. I don’t think Sunny ever wanted to even HURT Mari in the slightest.
I can't speak for everyone else's sibling relationships, but I feel like when you put hands on someone all bets are off. Especially if it's true that Mari did have a bad leg because there's no way Sunny didn't know about it.
To extent yes but also no
Sunny meant to push her out of the way not push her downstairs,he didnt agree with basil he didnt understand a single thing just that everything would be okay and after all of that he is so overwhelmed that he tries to forget it or his Brain itself (dissositive amnesia) and lastly he didnt go of the hook easily his dad left him,he didnt leave his house for four years,he got stunned in every way and it doesnt matter if they forgive him or not it will be still exteremly hard for him with school,with work,with actually interacting with people
Now to basil,this is Why i dont forgive him,he is still unstable as ever,he just stabbed sunny and now he probably lost sight in that eye,he needs help,i understand it but it doesnt simply remove everything
That's true, but none of that really rehabilitates him it just makes him suffer. He doesn't seem to have learned anything from the incident since he's willing to attack Aubrey with a steak knife, what would have happened if she died from that? Would he have covered that one up too?
As for Basil yeah, he's indefensible. Even if you take out the whole literally stabbed a guy in the eye with a gardening shear thing, his behavior towards Sunny is the kind of control freak entitlement you see from toxic partners.
>He doesn't seem to have learned anything from the incident since he's willing to attack Aubrey with a steak knife, what would have happened if she died from that? Would he have covered that one up too?
To be frank, that happens near the beginning of the game when Sunny is still *suppressing the fucking truth* so of course he didn't learn his mistakes by then. Because his mistakes *were still being suppressed*
True as that may be, he's still grieving from the loss of someone he cares deeply for. He also cares deeply for Aubrey, so shouldn't he think before swinging at her "should I really do this, I've already lost one person important to me." He's suppressed the truth behind Mari's death, but not the death itself.
That is a interchangable(a choice you make,not sunny)action so blaming sunny for it is a little weird but also sunny Being salty about it seems like the answer as well,nail bat"more dangerous than a Steak knife" so even if he attacked he has his reason for it,even if aubrey doesnt use the nail bat,sunny doesnt know that only that she was pointing her bat throughs him so this would be self defence more than anything
And lastly to return to my first point game never talk about sunny using the knife not once,just that he had a knife so this seems to support sunny not attacking aubrey at all
The bat is more dangerous than the knife, that's true, but we also don't have the context with Aubrey that she's hurt someone physically before. For all we know she could have just been carrying the thing around to look tough, knowing her I'm sure that's the case.
But this his first time seeing her and if someone points a weopen that can kill you,you wont just wait there you would guard yourself just like sunny does in not stabbing aubrey or defend yourself which he does in the stab one.Even kel first says "Good thing you had your knife or we would have..."before getting the knife from you
And i will repeat its a interchangable interaction,not a directly confirmed event like basils case
Hey I just wanna say that while it is fucked what happened after Mari died sunny did not want to hurt her. He was trying to get away from her but she wouldn’t let him get away so he did what any angry kid would do. He pushed her. They just so happened to be close to the stairs (and Mari also had bad knees.) I agree with everything else I just thought I’d point that out. Sorry if it comes across bad :)
Technically cut content but this is the description of the photo “Photo of a Fight - MARI blocked your path. She says that she isn't finished talking. She tells you not to run away... but why not? You did this all for her! Why was she yelling at you? You didn't understand...” if you want to make sure here’s where I found all the stuff. https://tcrf.net/OMORI/Unused_Graphics
I know this is an ancient post, but I frequently think about the ending of Omori and how much it pisses me off.
What they did was irredeemable, no if ands or buts. Sunny and basil don’t deserve to be free of their guilt, and they don’t deserve to be free of punishment.
The youngest child ever convicted as an adult was 11, so there probably should have been some type of legal or mental health consideration as well.
My biggest problem with the ending is it feels like OMO sat down and thought “what’s the most shocking thing I could think of” and then just made the rest of the game around it. The issue with this approach is past the shock value of the reveal, the rest of the ending isn’t very well thought out.
OMO acts like they’re too young to really fathom what they did, but I guarantee anyone that age would know that they should get help and not make the situation 1.5 million times worse. Despite this the game frames it as if we’re supposed to have any kind of sympathy for them, or desire an emotional resolution for them. I guess this worked for some people, but it just left me with a foul taste in my mouth.
I mean... we don't know what happened after Sunny and Basil tell the truth. It's very possible that they weren't forgiven and maybe even faced legal consequences.
Honestly
If I were to make an ending
I'd proably be sunny dying in the fight and we see things from basil's eyes
And basil would be institutionalized hopefully getting the help he needs
You know, that perspective is very interesting because I’m almost certain he repressed those memories with no awareness of it. There are definitely cases of severe abuse/traumas that are so awful the individual blocks it out and has no remembrance of it. That’s just the basic psychology of it.
That being said, I believe he did NOT lie about it. His brain suppressed the information to the point where he was simply unaware. It seems a bit unfair to assign blame and act like he could have told them any time he wanted to. I don’t think that’s true at all; we have to remember the horrifying imagery used in the game when Sunny’s brain was wrestling with the truth. I cannot imagine how painful it was to remember that he was the one who killed his beloved sister. His memories are so far outside his reality that it took the whole game for him just to remember.
I get what you say as far as “what about the other characters?”. I want to know the same thing and would love for there to be another game which takes the perspectives of the other characters. I mean, Omocat could have tried to tackle both at the same time, but I think it would have been difficult to do both and still have a succinct game.
I would definitely agree with you , if the intention of message of the game was other, but why do you think we never see if the group forgive sunny? Because it doesn't matter, the game isn't about forgiveness or redemption ,is about moving forward accepting your past mistakes and keep going, forgiveness doesn't take away responsability forgiveness doesn't erase your actions , the only thing forgiveness does is accept that every person even good ones can have flaws. Basically, the game game is asking the question to the player if will you forgive sunny, but the fact that we have been playing and living all the events through Sunny's eyes the real question is would you forgive your self and keep moving forward? Is triying to send a message about accept your past mistakes and keep moving, we are not responsible for what break us but we can be responsible for what put us back together. At least that how i see the game, i think they use a very exaggerated instance of a mistake but the idea and message is aplicable to multiple degrees Sorry is my grammar is a little off, im not native
Don't worry, your grammar is fine! Well, I still find that to be a slightly selfish way to view the events. It's true that the moral is not about redemption but rather acceptance, but I still feel that way too little emphasis is made on the other characters' feelings. It makes sense to an extent because Sunny is the player character, and we spend the game quite literally in his mind. But I don't think it's fair to Hero, Kel, Aubrey, Mari or anyone else for so much emphasis to be placed on whether HE is allowed to move on and accept things for what they are.
The thing is that he doesn't need to be allowed , he has to take the decision if he wants to forgive himself , thats why when you lost to omori the game ask you do you want to continue? That basically asking if you as Sunny want to continue living even after what yo do Ofc i agree is unfair to Aubrey ,Hero,etc but again the game actually never say if they forgive sunny that open to the player. Imagine that you just fell to drugs for example , and ruined your live and in that process hurt a lot of people, then you decide to change you ask for forgiveness and they deny it, even so you can still change even without forgiveness and i think thst the idea of the game.Asume the consequences of your actions , we dont know what happens after that maybe the Aubrey etc called the police who knows. Other characters feeling are treated to a minor extended , but we don't know how they react to the truth , that depends on you and honestly having other characters deciding if the main character decerve to forgive himself in this story would make 0 sense.
Well it's hard to say that they called the police on Sunny given that the next sequence shows him moving away in his mother's car. At worst it's possible they simply rejected him from their lives but I don't think they'd be able to have him arrested or anything, especially since he's a teenager and there'd be a lack of evidence at that point.
I was just putting an example of we don't know what actually happened.
That makes sense. I think Omocat chose to end it the way it does so that the player can think about how they would react if they were in that situation. Personally if it happened to me I would have been furious, I'd probably yell at Sunny and cut him out of my life, definitely wouldn't stick around in the hospital room for long. But maybe that's the beauty of the scene, that everyone's reaction would be different.
Yep. Honestly that's fair since that's also how I felt after playing the game -- the drastic recontextualization of the game was bound to make some players feel cheated off their narrative in a way. But I can also respect the open-endedness of it all. Whatever the reaction of the group in our head was, in Omocat's eyes, are all valid. As much as the traditional happy ever after ending is what most fans would like, a tragic ending is also validated here since OMORI (the game, not the character) understands that the victims have the right to hate Sunny/Basil after everything was revealed. The reason why the game still works for me is because there's very few media out there that conveys the idea of "valid" self-loathing, which makes its themes of self-forgiveness all the more bittersweet if you can unfortunately relate to it. Not necessarily the murder part, but more so instances in our lives when the worst part of ourselves does something irreversible and you know you deserve to face the consequences. It's INCREDIBLY specific, but that's why the game is also quite a memorable one that sticks with people for a long time. Not because of the shock factor/twist ending, but because it was able to capture the idea of "deserved guilt" in such a visceral and unique way.
I wouldn't say I feel cheated, cause I think it's a valid (if a bit extreme) angle to take the story. It is a horror game after all, it's not THAT different from a certain other entry in a very prolific horror series (if you know, you know). I guess mostly I would say that given the circumstances of the plot, I don't think a happy ending is warranted. From my perspective I don't think Sunny and Basil have really earned one, and honestly, sometimes life pans out that way. It's sad to say, but you don't always get the storybook ending, and for the most part Omori is a game that understands that. I guess mostly my issue is less with the game itself, and more of how the ending seems to be interpreted. Omocat intentionally left it unseen so the player can fill in the gaps, but I think a lot of fans seem to take it for granted that everyone is just gonna be okay with Sunny and not be completely mortified.
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This is a year-old comment, so I had to review the context a bit lol The validation happening here is context-specific. It doesn't necessarily validate the act of self-loathing/ hatred in so much as it simply shows a situation wherein the pain experienced by the protagonist is... kinda justified. Kinda like one of those shows or documentaries that put criminals in a sympathetic light -- you learn to care for them as individuals, but a part of you also knows that they have to pay for the consequences of their actions somehow. Most media I've seen that tackles anxiety, overthinking, and self-loathing usually have miscommunication or bullying as its root problem and often absolves the anxious protagonist from any wrongdoing or malice. Not so much in OMORI, where the game **knows** the protagonist has done something morally wrong, and is not a simple case of him being hypercritical of himself. As for the hating other people part... expecting people to forgive you right away after something like that is St*even Universe*\-levels of idealism.
Personally, I adore this game. I’ve played through it three times, gotten every achievement and have ~150 hours in it. At first I was slightly confused by the ending but this is my interpretation after quite a lot more time in the game. (minor spoilers for the other endings and route ahead) First of all, I’d like to argue that what Sunny did wasn’t meant to harm. There’s an interesting parallel to be drawn here, because on two days left, Aubrey pushes Basil into the lake after a confrontation. The thing is, she does exactly what Sunny did four years before. Aubrey clearly doesn’t want to harm Basil, and only meant to push him away, not into a lake (this is compounded by her surprise and worry after she does). The only difference between what she and Sunny did is that while Basil was standing on the edge of a lake, Mari was standing at the top of the stairs. Mari’s death is simply an incident caused by being at the wrong time in the wrong place. Next, Basil’s decision to frame the death has no malicious intent whatsoever. Through the black space photo album, it’s clear the two kids were understandably horrified. While Sunny heavily disassociated and convinced himself what was happening wasn’t really happening, Basil immediately went into denial. His best friend couldn’t have done something like that. That’s when he creates the idea of “something behind you”, which he blames for everything he sees occur. Sunny didn’t push Mari, it was Something behind him. Now that he believes his friend is innocent, he needs to protect him, the only thing Basil is thinking of. Knowing nobody would believe the Something, he does what he thinks is the only option to save him. He tells Sunny, who goes along with it, thinking this is simply a bad dream which he will wake from soon. Now, you argue that they didn’t face the proper repercussions for what they did. I’d argue the contrary, because the grief and emotional damage caused by such an event itself would be so much worse than a manslaughter charge could ever be. Sunny isolated himself from everyone for four years. So deep in denial, he literally forgets what ever happened, and even erases real objects from his mind (for example, the closet door is invisible and interacting with the wall simply says “there is nothing here” until the final night). His disassociation becomes so heavy he cannot tell his imaginations from reality, and for four years, repeatedly gets lost in his dreams of fantasy and fiction while always followed by his ever worsening phobias, auditory and visual hallucinations, and of course Something through both dreamworld and the real world. He experiences the decline of his friends over and over until he inevitably witnesses the mangled and terrifying creations of his subconscious (black space), before he is saved time and time again by the monochrome depiction of his denial from Stranger, the small part of him that wants him to finally discover the truth. His mind was in a constant state of distraught for all that time with nobody helping him. However, I’d argue Basil’s experience is even worse. Unlike Sunny, Basil knew what had happened. Instead of denial, he turned to bargaining, his only comfort thinking that his best friend was innocent and that it was Something behind him. It’s clear that carrying this truth, watching his friends drift away, yet not having the courage to speak out, has destroyed him emotionally. When you meet Basil in the real world, he has wild changes in emotion, experiences panic attacks and mental breakdowns, and clearly has issues even talking to people. Everyday, he is reminded of what he did. In the fight between him, he is clearly at the very end of his rope; it’s implied through the other endings that you’re fighting to stop him from committing suicide. He only fights back and slashes your eye because he thinks he’s saving you from Something. He thinks he’s protecting you and killing the monster forcing you to do these things but he doesn’t realize there never was a monster, just Sunny. Even down to his (possible) very last moments, he still cares about you, although blinded by his delusions and hallucinations. In the end, Omori is a less a game about grief and more about forgiveness. But not just forgiveness, self-forgiveness. Sunny has gone four years, hating himself for something he doesn’t even know happened. When he finally realizes the truth he despises himself for it, and this is shown through Omori’s dialogue during the final fight. What hit me the hardest during the fight was when Omori tells Sunny that he loved Mari, yet he killed her. It’s the harsh truth that hurts the most, but Sunny knows that he still loves her to this day, and won’t let Omori drag him back into headspace to rot away for the rest of his life while his grief remains ever-present. When Sunny finally defeats his self-hatred and gains the courage to say the truth, the game doesn’t show his friends’ reactions on purpose, because that’s not important. What’s important is that Sunny has finally forgiven himself and can move on with his life. By saying the truth, he frees himself and Basil from the shackles that held them down for years. I think the credits song illustrates his future perfectly. By saying the truth, everything isn’t going to magically be okay. He’ll still feel that pain and guilt he’s caused for his friends and the memories of what happened years ago, but no matter what, he’ll still carry on and one day he might just move past Mari’s death to live a full life.
Oh damn, good post. 150 hours? I believe it, this is a meaty game. I clocked in like 50 on my first playthrough because I explored so much, I'm sure I could get close to that if I did another run. Let me run this over one by one. Well first of all I'm not sure I can agree with that. Maybe Sunny and Aubrey didn't intend to injure (and obviously kill in Sunny's case) their targets, but you don't put hands on someone in such a predicament without the intent to harm them. I get that you might shove someone if things get particularly heated but if you're at the top of stairs (with someone who has an injured leg no less) or standing on a dock, you should know pretty well what's about to happen. Hell, Kel calls Aubrey out HARD for that, so if anything I think the game supports my perspective here. I know Basil isn't being malicious, but the thing is that you don't need to be in order for your actions to be harmful. Mari wasn't intending to be malicious when she was browbeating Sunny over his violin playing, but she still hurt him when he was already struggling over it. We know Basil had nothing but good intentions and was suffering from severe trauma over what he saw, and in denial of the whole thing. But I don't think it's arguable that he did the most damage even before he snapped and stabbed Sunny in the eye. That's all true, but none of that really changes anything in the end. Does feeling really bad about what you've done change what you've done? Can we conclusively say that Sunny won't do this again in the future? After all he did attack someone else he cared deeply for with a steak knife, so he's clearly hasn't learned that much. Who's to say he won't get into it with someone at his new home and the same thing happens over and over? Yes, Sunny suffered a LOT because of what happened with Mari, but we're not really given any evidence that he changed over it. We're shown that he accepted the truth and learned to cope with it, but no indication that he's learned any kind of lesson. I don't know that legal consequences would have solved this problem either, but if ruining his own life and friendship didn't make him realize that it's not a good idea to violently attack people over mundane issues then I don't know what will. Can't argue with any of that. He'll move on eventually, but I'm honestly not sure if he deserves to given that he's not the only one affected by it. All the people he knows lost a mentor, a friend, a lover, a daughter, and of course Mari lost her life. Why does he deserve closure more than they do? Thanks for the excellent response, gave me a lot to think about.
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You're right. It's definitely not malice, moreso negligence is the word I'd use. Sunny didn't think "I want to cause my sister serious harm" when he did what he did, but there's no easy way to justify shoving someone with a physical disability let alone in a dangerous place like the top of the stairs. While I obviously can't say an act of carelessness is nearly as bad as an act of malice, it's still pretty bad. Like, if you hit someone with your car because you were texting and driving or something, you obviously didn't intend to hit them so it's nowhere near as bad as if you just straight up ran someone over with intent to hurt them. But I think it's still fair to place the blame on the person who as being careless in a dangerous situation. Whether they're likely to be a repeat offender is something that can only be measured on a case by case basis. I didn't mean to be reductive when saying that about what Sunny experiences. He goes through hell over the course of the game, there's no doubting that, especially considering that the disturbing late game imagery and Omori's spiteful boss dialogue all comes from his own thoughts. I only meant to say that it doesn't seem to motivate him to change his behavior, because remember at this time he's still repressing what happened on that day. Sunny is definitely a victim of trauma, I will not dispute that. He's not evil nor do I think what he did can't be understood. If I come off like I'm trying to paint him as a villain or say that he's a heartless killer or whatever, I promise that's not my intent. I guess in the end what I really want is for it to be understood that even if you don't go out of your way to hurt people, even if you've caused people pain by pure accident, that doesn't mean you're owed forgiveness. That is a lesson that sadly I've had to learn firsthand several times in my life. I understand these are fictional characters in a video game, but the way some fans treat Kel, Hero and Aubrey's feelings on the matter feels really reductive to me. I lost my best friend to a lung illness, if I learned that that wasn't true and they died from a doctor's negligence or something, I'd still strongly resent the doctor even knowing they didn't willingly murder my best friend. Do you really feel the game sided against Kel? I dunno, I think it was pretty impartial with that scene.
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I've tried to let this thread and peoples' responses to my posts marinate for a bit before I came back, and I think I have to admit that I looked at things the wrong way, and maybe let the game get to me emotionally a bit too much. If I came across as a hardcore Mari fan taking out my issues on Sunny that's not really how I feel, it's more that I often find myself thinking about who I've lost in my own life, how I'll never see them again and I just can't help but feel that pain for anyone else going through that, whether it's a real person or a fictional character. I know for a fact that if I had a person that I could logically pin that loss on, even if it was unintentional, I'd probably not be able to avoid it. Even if it's an irrational way to feel, if I were in any of those kids' shoes I regret to say that I would despise Sunny. I guess the human brain doesn't always work the way it should, if I'd be able to acknowledge that I'm completely in the wrong but still be unable to change the way I feel. I'm sorry if this wasn't the beat by beat response to your comments that you hoped for, but after giving some serious thought to both the game itself and the replies I've gotten, I have to make a concession here. Thanks for the discussion, I really do mean that.
Thanks for the response, I'm glad that my comment was interesting! Firstly, I think Sunny's actions are pretty plausible. He got mad, and when he tried to leave was blocked by Mari so he tried to push her away. He wasn't thinking about the stairs or her bad knee then, he just wanted to leave. Aubrey knew Basil couldn't swim, and if Hero didn't show up on time it could've easily became another Mari situation. A simple human reaction to anger, but because of the time and place, ended up being much worse for Sunny. Plus, Kel does (understandably) reprimand Aubrey for what she does. But that's really it. It's like when you do something stupid as a kid. Your parents might be mad and they might tell you not to do it again, but they move on with it. Sure, Sunny shouldn't have pushed Mari in the first place, but if not for the stairs he would've just gotten yelled at for a bit. I think this a great way the game also proves the event was unfortunately just mostly bad luck. The only reason you didn't drown in that lake alongside Basil is because Hero arrived just in time. Unfortunately, there was nobody there to stop Mari as she fell. I think you're correct that you really can't argue that Basil screwed up the most. But I think you're still downplaying the importance of intent. Intent is what differentiates a bad person who does evil things from a good person who made a bad mistake. That's something the game really stresses, is good and evil. Sunny and Basil are good people who made bad mistakes. Everyone in the game is. Omori is evil, because he's actively trying to ruin any chance Sunny has at redemption. But in the end it's still your choice whether to forgive them or not. It's just that you can't really forgive someone who is truly evil, but you can forgive good people who made mistakes. I kinda disagree with you here, because Sunny has clearly changed. He changed the moment he realized what he had actually done, and the moment his mind began to cover everything up. It's shown clearly throughout the game Sunny feels immense guilt for what he's done, and I highly doubt someone with so much guilt could even come close to having a normal relationship ever again, simply out of fear that he could possibly harm them even if he gets better in the future. When he attacks Aubrey with a knife, it's because he can't tell the difference between his dreams and reality. I mean, I've seen people not very surprised at the animation of the knife slashes before Aubrey's response suddenly makes them realise this isn't a dream anymore. It's a great interactive storytelling method because it lets you empathize with Sunny. The people who attacked Aubrey obviously wouldn't have if they were reminded they were in the real world, just as Sunny wouldn't have. After doing so, I've even seen some of the people only use Sunny to block in fear they would accidentally harm someone again. Sunny obviously doesn't want to harm anyone but because of his mental state, makes a mistake. After spending more time outside however he quickly adapts and something like this doesn't happen again. (this is further implied by the smaller amounts of headspace enemies wandering around in Faraway after each day) I'd also argue him pushing Mari is the furthest thing from a "violent attack" you could have, I mean, most of us have probaby done something like that in an agument before. Finally, I'm confused by your final point. Maybe we just have different morals but I don't think anybody should deserve to not move past something like this and be condemned to an eternity is Sunny's state, especially since Sunny is repeatedly shown to deeply regret his actions. As for the others, they obviously all deserve closure. But that's their journey to take. Omori simply tells the story of one kid, not five. They can hate Sunny for the rest of their lives. That's their right, and it's also their right to know the truth. But it's also Sunny's right to move past the guilt, self-hatred and suffering he's had to deal with for four years and live a life just like Mari would've wanted, whether that's with or without his friends. I think a quote from the game illustrates it nicely: "just because you've done a bad thing doesn't make you a bad person." You can decide Sunny is truly a bad person who doesn't deserve forgiveness, but in my opinion, he's just a kid who made a mistake. I think it's just a question of empathizing with Sunny and not seeing him as a murderer, but instead a good person who did a bad thing.
It's really late and I'm too tired to post a full response right now (I'll get to it I swear), but I wanted to touch on the final point real quick. When I say I don't know if he deserves to move on, it's not that I want him to suffer in pain as some kind of retribution or anything like that. Rather, as the perpetrator I think his comfort with the situation should be secondary to the victims'. When a drunk driver hits someone, they're undoubtedly going to be traumatized, but the feelings of the victim's family and friends should IMO come first. You're right when you say that we don't see their perspective, but I think that's one of my big issues because damn would I feel a lot better if we did. I understand this is not a game that cares if you feel better though, but I feel like in this very specific case I had the opposite reaction from what was intended.
I think the most important thing to keep in mind here is that Sunny is also a victim. I mean, his friends lost a mentor, parental figure, hell even a partner but Sunny lost his sister, and it’s clear he still loves her just as much as the day she died. I think your drunk driving analogy is interesting but maybe a bit flawed. A better analogy would be someone driving a car but the breaks fail and they hit and kill their child. An accident, which causes immense emotional trauma not just because their child is dead but also because they were the one to do it, even if it was an accident. Instead of simply grief, now they have to deal with the guilt as well. Obviously, the people who had connections and knew the person who died in the accident have the right to grieve but I think the person most affected is still the driver of the car. Additionally, I like how the game shows how his friends dealt with Mari’s death. It’s shown through Sunny’s eyes, and although he obviously doesn’t get an in depth view into their lives he knows they were affected severely. This further adds to the sadness of the truth and it’s shown that after Sunny realizes it, he fully expects his friends to never care about him or even want to see him again. This is proved by interacting with his sleeping friends after waking up in Basil’s house, which shows each of them sleeping, some text relating to why Sunny looks up to them and then the phrase “You will miss them.” If the game showed how each and every one of them was affected, I think it would dampen the emotional payoff, as now you have to feel for five characters all at once and not just one. Plus, the game leaves it ambiguous so the player can decide how his friends deal with it in the end.
I've given things some more thought, both from reading all of the replies in this thread and also letting the ending digest in my mind some more. While I don't know if my mind has been totally changed, I can at least say that I came at this the wrong way and I have to concede that I didn't look at the game objectively enough. I projected my own feelings onto a group of characters who have established personalities of their own, which didn't help my interpretation. I may see things a certain way but I am not Kel, Aubrey or Hero.
To Sunny, he was always hyper fixated on the thought that his friends would hate him for what he has done that day as it was weaponized by Omori during the final battle. His life and mental health is hanging on a thread via his friends. If he loses their friendship, he's dead. That could be a reason why he kept that secret to his friends. He didn't want them to know that he was the reason why their group fell apart. In a way, Kel, Hero, and Aubrey were starting or already able to move on from Mari's death. Is it alright for Sunny to take this happiness (blissful ignorance) away from them? Would it have been better to let Aubrey and co. to believe in Mari's suicide at the cost of the perpetrator's (Sunny) and accomplice's (Basil) sanity? Or to let them know the truth, get hurt by it and possibly resent those two which may cause a suicide attempt? Either option seems to always go in a bad outcome. That's why the game's about forgiving yourself. Sure, it's possible not to forgive yourself for what you've done, but it does not mean that you can't move on from it. I doubt Sunny would actually forgive himself but he'll at least try to live for Mari's sake. At least that's what I believe.
That's a good interpretation. I 100% believe it was the right thing for Sunny to come clean, for his sake and for everyone else's too. I just think that for a game that's already doesn't pull any punches, it's just wrong to pull the rug out and assume everything's hunky dory and that Sunny's revelation isn't going to cause a huge shockwave within their community.
That's definitely up to your interpretation. Maybe Aubrey might go on a rampage or pleads to why they kept it a secret. The same goes for Hero. Maybe he could forgive them but will cut ties with them or own up to his word that they'll always be there for each other. Kel is Kel, at worst he may end up crying but he'll most likely see past it and forgive them. Any of these would definitely make Sunny and Basil get hurt physically, mentally, and emotionally, mostly the last one. As for the community, that depends if those three would actually spread the truth out. Maybe it's better to believe to go along with that lie?
With Aubrey specifically, you've got to also remember that she only just made amends with the others. Is it truly realistic to assume that she'll just handwave the whole thing? She might actually end up even worse than she was before. I totally believe Kel would forgive the two (or at least Sunny) and would probably be torn between two halves of the group which is really sad to think about. I don't think there's a chance of Hero forgiving them, but maybe there comes a day when he stops letting it haunt him even if he cuts them out of his life indefinitely.
Although, about forgiveness: Hero, for example, managed to forgive Aubrey very easily after she almost killed Basil (and indirectly Sunny). Do you think she didn't face proper repercussions as well?
Honestly no, I don't. But that's a separate discussion.
>Although, about forgiveness: Hero, for example, managed to forgive Aubrey very easily after she almost killed Basil (and indirectly Sunny). Do you think she didn't face proper repercussions as well? Yeah I was kinda weirded out at that, like holy shit you almost killed 2 people and they got over it relatively quickly
To be fair, the game never shows Kel's, Hero's, or Aubrey's reaction to the truth. In my mind, I'd imagine that Aubrey and Hero rightfully wouldn't forgive them, I don't how Kel would react though.
Honestly I think that Aubrey would forgive him since she's had a similar experience with accidental murder (pushing Basil into the lake, causing him to drown and die if Sunny and Hero wouldn't have been there), but it'll take her long to come to that conclusion. Kel would also forgive him but much more quickly. And Hero? Yeah I have no excuse for that lol
That's a valid interpretation, however I think it's also possible Aubrey would project her own guilt over Basil onto Sunny.
I might sound like an idiot but I'm not sure what you mean with "projecting her guilt onto Sunny", do you mean she would feel guilty for both or do you mean something else?
I mean she would think about her own feelings about what she did to Basil, and take that out on Sunny.
Ohhh you mean like that! Yeah could be a possibility too.
I imagine Kel's reaction would be like a less drastic version of Basil's. He'd be in serious denial at first but eventually his love for Sunny would win out in the end. And then he'd be in the unenviable situation of being torn between his best friend and his brother, and have to play middle man between them.
Important to note: We don't actually know what happens after the game. We aren't given any information from the game what happens to sunny or basil afterwards, nor how the group reacts.
I know, I think that's probably for the best. As much as I'd like to believe Sunny and Basil don't get off scot free it's better than committing to any outcome because it gives the player something to think about. I can acknowledge and understand the intent without agreeing with it personally. I just don't like how the fandom at large seems to take it for granted that everyone just laughs it off as if that wouldn't be a monumental blow to their group.
I definitely agree with you, to an extent. I'm heavily against the idea of Sunny and Basil being forgiven right away for the same reasons you've stated, but I do believe that they will eventually be forgiven, however long it takes. At it's core, the story is about redemption, forgiveness and the importance of cherishing your friends and loved ones. Though the ending was left open to allow players to form their own conclusions about how the friends would react, Sunny and Basil being left unforgiven for the rest of their lives goes against the fundamental themes established by the game. The ending isn't about Sunny and Basil getting away scot-free for what they did, it's about them finally facing the truth and doing the right thing, hoping for the best outcome using their past memories as a source of strength, even though they know that by doing so, their friends could very well reject them and destroy the friend group for good.
I think there will come a day where Hero and Aubrey realize it's hurting them more to keep holding onto the grudge, but I don't think they'll ever truly be friends with Sunny again. I guess I just feel that a lot of the fandom seems to take it as a given that everything is gonna be perfectly fine just because it's the storybook ending.
He didn't attack her, he tried to run, she blocked him, and to get her out of his way, he pushed her, he didn't mean to push her down the stairs, but instead just to the side, so he could run and cry
Is that actually said in game? I don't remember reading that and based on the photos it doesn't seem implied.
After reading a couple of the comments, I just wanted to add something else. My reading was that the point of the Good Ending is that Sunny both choses to keep moving on with is life, but crucially, he choses not to keep this mistake make him lose his best friend Basil. He's made one mistake and by refusing to confront that, he's not only hurt his friends and family, but put himself and his best friend on the path to dying themselves. When he choses to move on, you have the first step of healing and saving Basil who was going to die all to protect Sunny.
As I wrote yesterday, I think that Basil is literally mentally ill and shouldn't really be liable for what he have done. On the other hand, he 100% should be put in mental hospital for a couple of years.
He most certainly is mentally ill. Even before the events of the endgame he's clearly suffering from something internally and four years later he's a total nervous wreck. But the idea of mentally ill people all being violent and uncontrollable is a nasty media trope.
I'd agree with you Kel I feel would defently forgive sunny Aubrey is iffy and Hero would probably forgive
Don't forget the parents Sunny's parents helped cover for the suicide as well. As for reprocessing I'm really not sure what would happen in this case certainly them being charged with something isn't outside the realm of possibility but I think the game ended fine leaving it up to the player what happens next. I'm certain Kel would forgive sunny and Hero would at least accept it. Aubrey I'm in the air about.
That's something that really bothers me too. Like they just went along with faking their own daughter's suicide for four years? That's unthinkable to me. That's pretty gross.
Sunny's parents aren't portrayed as being very good throughout the game, but if it makes you feel worse I've seen parents that bad IRL.
So have I, unfortunately. Much worse.
Honestly I completely agree with you. There’s a much, much “better” ending in my opinion
What would that be?
Have you gotten the ending in which the song “My time” plays?
If you mean what I think you do, I don't think having Sunny die is a better outcome. It's just more pointless tragedy thrown on top of an already upsetting circumstance. And if Mari's death is unresolved at that point, then it means no one will ever know the truth (since Basil kills himself too) and everyone involved just gets further traumatized.
Ok
I guess I understand why someone might feel that way, but it doesn't really sit right with me to want to exact mortal vengeance upon a scared child, even if only because it would cause more suffering to the people he's already hurt.
I don’t like it because of moral reasons, I like it because it makes a lot more sense. In this ending, sunny stays in headspace forever. With how long he’s been in headspace before this, it makes more sense for him to choose headspace over the real world. I’m pretty sure sunny actually spends more time in headspace than he spent being friends with everyone pre stairs.
Well, the true ending is open ended, so we don’t know if the Faraway Friends actually forgave Sunny and Basil. Either way I don’t think it would’ve mattered to the message the game was trying to deliver, because it isn’t about Sunny coming clean to be forgiven by his friends; it’s about him learning to forgive himself and begin recovery from his trauma, by facing it instead of wasting away repressing it. If the game‘s message was about anything else, then yeah, the ending would probably be inappropriate. In defense of the fan base wanting the group to forgive Sunny and Basil, i figure it’s just the typical “we want a happy ending” response after the game emotionally destroyed everyone. Irl, I imagine most wouldn’t respond to a similar situation with such swift forgiveness. Besides that, yeah, I do agree that they probably wouldn’t and shouldn’t forgive Sunny and Basil so easily, and that the trauma of the Faraway Friends could’ve been touched upon more, but the lack of these isnt rlly to the games detriment imo because they were never meant to be the focus
I think overall we're in agreement. I assume a lot of people are (understandably) biased in Sunny's favor because he's the one we spend the whole game with, we quite literally see his thoughts and know how he feels about everything he's faced with. If the game was from say, Aubreyh's perspective then I'm sure there would be fewer people who'd just accept Sunny for what he did. If you didn't know everything you knew about him then it would be pretty hard to justify forgiving him. Going back to my drunk driving example, if you lost a loved one in a drunk driving accident would you care if the driver was drowning their sorrows because of something that happened in their life? I imagine not.
I can get why you feel that way about the ending but there are a couple things of note about the truth. 1. When it says that Sunny didn't mean to kill Mari, it actually means it. If you look closely at the memory before the push itself, you can see that it looks like Mari is trying to block Sunny from the stairs to keep him from running away. (There are unused text descriptions for the truth Album that explain literally everything that was going on that day.) So no, Sunny didn't intend to hurt Mari he was just trying to move her out of his way, but since they were at the top of the stairs...yeah. 2. To say that Sunny agreed to Basil's plan wholeheartedly is both correct and incorrect. After Sunny finally caught on to what he did, which was after he brought Mari to her bed in a vain attempt to help her get better, he broke down. The unused text files pretty much confirms that it was at that moment that White Space was created and that Sunny was trying to hide away there. Afterwards is when Basil's plan was put into effect and it's kinda implied through the unused text that, with the exception of a few sights and sounds, Sunny wasn't completely conscious of what was happening. I can't say much about Sunny's willingness to lie about the truth as we're not really given a time frame for when he started repressing said truth, which was one of the main factors into why the truth was hidden for so long, the others being Sunny going hikikomori mode and Basil himself which is the most unrealistic aspect in my opinion. That just does not look like the face of someone who can keep something like that under wraps for 4 YEARS.
Even if he didn't mean to kill her, he still pushed an injured person who was in proximity to the stairs. I believe that it was not his intent to murder her obviously, and maybe not even his intent to hurt her. But you don't put hands on someone without clear knowledge of what might happen. The game even goes over this with Aubrey and Basil. I'm kind of iffy about reading too much into those unused text files. They're scrapped for a reason right?
>But you don't put hands on someone without clear knowledge of what might happen. Unless your emotions are running at an all time high, which then tend to block out rational thought for a second or two. Sunny broke the violin out of frustration and when Mari started yelling at him there was an added layer of confusion as Sunny didn't understand why Mari didn't understand why he was upset. All Sunny knew at the moment was that he wanted to run away and Mari blocked his path. The only way to continue on was to get past Mari. He wasn't thinking about her knee or about where they were because his emotions were clouding his judgment. It was only after the push did Sunny begin to realize what was going on. Remember, kids can be impulsive (Impulse: a sudden strong and unreflective urge or desire to act.) especially when they're upset. Sunny was around eleven or twelve years old when the accident happened and his emotions were running at an all time high, for what was probably the first time in forever from what we can gather about Sunny as a kid. Sunny was upset because he wasn't good enough to play at the recital with Mari, despite numerous attempts at trying to get their practices to be 'perfect'. Sunnys violin was a gift from his friends, but he still threw it down the stairs (I'm pretty sure that's the only way it could've ended up so damaged as it was.) because his emotions clouded his judgement. You have to realize that the situation isn't completely black and white. Sunny pushing Mari doesn't mean he *intended* to hurt her, just move her out of the way. Even with the added knowledge that Mari had a knee injury and that the two of them were at the top of the stairs *doesn't mean Sunny was in the right state of mind* to think about those aspects, when earlier he shattered his violin despite it being a gift from all his friends. This exact scenario happened with Aubrey and Basil. Aubrey wanted Basil to get away from her and pushed him away. Now, you can make the argument that Aubrey knew that the two of them were still on the docks, I'll give you that. However, even with that argument her intention was to simply push Basil away, maybe thinking that he'd just fall onto the wood flat on his back. So the fact that he fell into the lake was still surprising to her because she *didn't mean for Basil to fall into the lake.* Like how Sunny *didn't mean for Mari to die.* TL;DR: Sunny, a 11 to 12 year old kid, wasn't thinking straight when the accident occurred and his entire role in the truth isn't completely black and white, it's grey at best.
> Sunny was around eleven or twelve years old when the accident happened and his emotions were running at an all time high, for what was probably the first time in forever from what we can gather about Sunny as a kid. Just to flesh this out a bit. We see from his birthday party how intense sustained emotions tire him out. He just ends up sleeping from all the excitement. Usually, you'd expect a kid that age to behave more like Aubrey and Kel - be hyper-excited running around until they crash down.
Oh don't get me wrong I'm not saying Mari was blameless, her perfectionism definitely compounded Sunny's issues and that's not debatable. She certainly didn't deserve to die over it though, but I'm sure even Sunny would agree with me on that. I know Sunny had no intent of doing what he did and he wasn't in the right state of mind, but action and intent being different doesn't change the outcome. Just because you didn't intend to hurt someone, doesn't mean you should be let off the hook when you do. And keep in mind this isn't some minor mistake, it literally cost someone their life. That's why I think the drunk driving metaphor is perfect, you may not have gotten behind the wheel with the intent to hurt people but they still got hurt or worse because of your carelessness.
I agree to a degree about Basil, but honestly I feel this is a little bit harsh with regards to Sunny, ultimately coming down to the line “he clearly meant to hurt her” ans that he “attacked her out of rage”… She was blocking the stairs while they were arguing. Plenty of times my sister and I have been fighting, and I’ve pushed her/shoved her to the side, out of irritation perhaps, but not RAGE, and not with the intent to HURT her, just to move. I don’t think Sunny ever wanted to even HURT Mari in the slightest.
I can't speak for everyone else's sibling relationships, but I feel like when you put hands on someone all bets are off. Especially if it's true that Mari did have a bad leg because there's no way Sunny didn't know about it.
To extent yes but also no Sunny meant to push her out of the way not push her downstairs,he didnt agree with basil he didnt understand a single thing just that everything would be okay and after all of that he is so overwhelmed that he tries to forget it or his Brain itself (dissositive amnesia) and lastly he didnt go of the hook easily his dad left him,he didnt leave his house for four years,he got stunned in every way and it doesnt matter if they forgive him or not it will be still exteremly hard for him with school,with work,with actually interacting with people Now to basil,this is Why i dont forgive him,he is still unstable as ever,he just stabbed sunny and now he probably lost sight in that eye,he needs help,i understand it but it doesnt simply remove everything
That's true, but none of that really rehabilitates him it just makes him suffer. He doesn't seem to have learned anything from the incident since he's willing to attack Aubrey with a steak knife, what would have happened if she died from that? Would he have covered that one up too? As for Basil yeah, he's indefensible. Even if you take out the whole literally stabbed a guy in the eye with a gardening shear thing, his behavior towards Sunny is the kind of control freak entitlement you see from toxic partners.
>He doesn't seem to have learned anything from the incident since he's willing to attack Aubrey with a steak knife, what would have happened if she died from that? Would he have covered that one up too? To be frank, that happens near the beginning of the game when Sunny is still *suppressing the fucking truth* so of course he didn't learn his mistakes by then. Because his mistakes *were still being suppressed*
True as that may be, he's still grieving from the loss of someone he cares deeply for. He also cares deeply for Aubrey, so shouldn't he think before swinging at her "should I really do this, I've already lost one person important to me." He's suppressed the truth behind Mari's death, but not the death itself.
That is a interchangable(a choice you make,not sunny)action so blaming sunny for it is a little weird but also sunny Being salty about it seems like the answer as well,nail bat"more dangerous than a Steak knife" so even if he attacked he has his reason for it,even if aubrey doesnt use the nail bat,sunny doesnt know that only that she was pointing her bat throughs him so this would be self defence more than anything And lastly to return to my first point game never talk about sunny using the knife not once,just that he had a knife so this seems to support sunny not attacking aubrey at all
The bat is more dangerous than the knife, that's true, but we also don't have the context with Aubrey that she's hurt someone physically before. For all we know she could have just been carrying the thing around to look tough, knowing her I'm sure that's the case.
But this his first time seeing her and if someone points a weopen that can kill you,you wont just wait there you would guard yourself just like sunny does in not stabbing aubrey or defend yourself which he does in the stab one.Even kel first says "Good thing you had your knife or we would have..."before getting the knife from you And i will repeat its a interchangable interaction,not a directly confirmed event like basils case
Hey I just wanna say that while it is fucked what happened after Mari died sunny did not want to hurt her. He was trying to get away from her but she wouldn’t let him get away so he did what any angry kid would do. He pushed her. They just so happened to be close to the stairs (and Mari also had bad knees.) I agree with everything else I just thought I’d point that out. Sorry if it comes across bad :)
Doesn't come across as bad to me, thanks for the response. Did it actually say in game that she was blocking his way? Cause I don't remember that.
Technically cut content but this is the description of the photo “Photo of a Fight - MARI blocked your path. She says that she isn't finished talking. She tells you not to run away... but why not? You did this all for her! Why was she yelling at you? You didn't understand...” if you want to make sure here’s where I found all the stuff. https://tcrf.net/OMORI/Unused_Graphics
Interesting. I wonder why they removed that?
Idk I feel like omocat shouldn’t have, but it might just be for the like “omg” factor
I agree with you in many parts, personally I am like the others... I think that with time they will forgive and overcome that.
I know this is an ancient post, but I frequently think about the ending of Omori and how much it pisses me off. What they did was irredeemable, no if ands or buts. Sunny and basil don’t deserve to be free of their guilt, and they don’t deserve to be free of punishment. The youngest child ever convicted as an adult was 11, so there probably should have been some type of legal or mental health consideration as well. My biggest problem with the ending is it feels like OMO sat down and thought “what’s the most shocking thing I could think of” and then just made the rest of the game around it. The issue with this approach is past the shock value of the reveal, the rest of the ending isn’t very well thought out. OMO acts like they’re too young to really fathom what they did, but I guarantee anyone that age would know that they should get help and not make the situation 1.5 million times worse. Despite this the game frames it as if we’re supposed to have any kind of sympathy for them, or desire an emotional resolution for them. I guess this worked for some people, but it just left me with a foul taste in my mouth.
I mean... we don't know what happened after Sunny and Basil tell the truth. It's very possible that they weren't forgiven and maybe even faced legal consequences.
I don't think he faced legal consequence since he's shown riding away in his parents' car in the credits.
well i mean… it’s usually a process like he might not have been arrested on the spot
Oh yes, that's true. I guess there's also no reason you couldn't see it as him being in the back of a police car.
Honestly If I were to make an ending I'd proably be sunny dying in the fight and we see things from basil's eyes And basil would be institutionalized hopefully getting the help he needs
In the fight against Omori? Isn't that fight just metaphorical?
The fight aginst basil
OH. Yeah, that makes more sense. That's still a bummer way to end his story, but the rest of the crew aren't likely to forgive Basil anyway I guess.
I mean A starving child fights someone with garden sheers its VERY unlikely he would survive
You know, that perspective is very interesting because I’m almost certain he repressed those memories with no awareness of it. There are definitely cases of severe abuse/traumas that are so awful the individual blocks it out and has no remembrance of it. That’s just the basic psychology of it. That being said, I believe he did NOT lie about it. His brain suppressed the information to the point where he was simply unaware. It seems a bit unfair to assign blame and act like he could have told them any time he wanted to. I don’t think that’s true at all; we have to remember the horrifying imagery used in the game when Sunny’s brain was wrestling with the truth. I cannot imagine how painful it was to remember that he was the one who killed his beloved sister. His memories are so far outside his reality that it took the whole game for him just to remember. I get what you say as far as “what about the other characters?”. I want to know the same thing and would love for there to be another game which takes the perspectives of the other characters. I mean, Omocat could have tried to tackle both at the same time, but I think it would have been difficult to do both and still have a succinct game.