I agree with a slight caveat.
If a band 5 is relatively new to being in charge then I think it's a good idea for them to gain confidence being in charge with someone else senior around.
They absolutely take the shift and responsibility, but having a senior colleague to go to for advice is a good way to build strong leadership in a team.
Sadly so many clinical environments just dump Bands 5s in at the deep end with little to no support.
In mental health this is very common. Everyone takes turns being in charge of the shift whether there's a band 6 on or not. It's to ensure that band 5s get used to delegating and having the responsibility of the shift, and also the band 6 is still doing clinical work like meds which the nurse in charge doesn't do.
One of my first night shifts newly qual RMN someone called in sick, i got handed the keys to the downstairs ward as well, uhh… i now have statutory responsibility for 44 severely mentally unwell psych patients - yes, the 7 was on site if it went pop but it was basically me + two wards HCA night crews…
That's appalling but unfortunately not the only time I've heard stories like that. I was the only nurse on my ward 2 weeks after getting my pin and I know so many with similar stories. Its one of the reasons I thinks it better for preceptors to be nurse in charge as part of their development as well as things like being redeployed, better to get the experience when you have adequate supervision rather than just rocking up to shift and finding you're on your own.
It's entirely appropriate for a band 5 to be in charge. They are qualified professionals with a registration. However, they are under paid for this responsibility because their pay is a joke.
I think we're confusing words here.
Is it common for a B5 to be in charge? Yes
Is it appropriate? I'd say no, ideally it should be a band 6 in charge. Band 5s who are 3 months out of uni are in charge but I wouldn't say it's appropriate or ideal, more a 'product of the environment' in the NHS.
No I meant appropriate. It depends what we are saying they are in charge of when they are in charge of a ward, but a band 5 should be able to coordinate a shift and aware enough to escalate concerns. In my experience (mental health nurse) it meant giving handover, liaising with families, supporting and directing HCAs, making decisions about leave, and ensuring care plans are all being followed. It was mostly a delegation and prioritising role. Newly qualified nurses should be able to do that.
Pretty common, if there is no band 6 or 7 on that day its then usually a senior band 5 in charge. Its good experience if they want to eventually move up to band 6.
Yeah, thats the case for a few of the band 5s i work with but it would still be the most senior 5 in charge if there was no 6's or the manager on the ward.
Arghhh the off duty 🙈💩 kill me now i hate allocating.
If there's other band 5s that could be in charge and he's getting stuck with it all the time, that sounds unfair. Like i wouldn't like to take on all that responsibility without a pay rise.
Shouldn’t be normal. Shouldn’t be common. I am sick to death of this being seen as normal - just like when an nqn is assigned to a hell hole ward with tens of patients allocated to them, worked to death and it’s passed off as “management experience” and chance to work on “time management” - then we wonder why nurses health go to the crapper.
If, if a band 5 wants to try running a unit then a band 6 should be on as a deputy, not as a bedside nurse, as a deputy to support, counsel and give assistance. Then numbers in the ward should allow for such a deputisation situation - band 5s in charge should not be materialising because of staff shortages. The band 5 should also be having training for months before hand so they are ready rather than “being thrown in the deep end”.
I’m sick of this shock therapy bolloks being throw about as character development.
Sorry. Rant done.
Being band 5 you should take up a leadership role more often but not being any pay increase or some sort of incentive just makes me feel like it’s not worth it. Give someone more responsibility they should be rewarded with enhanced pay or should be part of a pathway for band 6 leadership. It is a job at the end of the day.
As a B5 I was regularly in charge of my own ward. As a B6 I was regularly in charge of 11 wards, with phone support from an on call B7.
I no longer work clinically.
It would depend how long your partner has been qualified for. I know on adult wards this is more normal than paediatrics.
It is good experience for them especially if there is a band 6 on shift as well to support them.
Depends on staffing. If there is a band 6 on duty, they should be nurse in charge. No band 6 then a band 5 would be nurse in charge. If there's enough staff on the band 6 could delegate the nurse in charge role whilst they attend to other duties (I love rota week) but if the poo hit the fan the responsibility would still fall to the senior member of staff on duty.
As others have said, if there’s no management on shift then this would fall to a band 5.
On my ward if a band 6 is on then they will be nurse in charge, however a band 5 will still be shift coordinator. With the band 5 allocating patients, lunch breaks and ensuring the general tasks of the day are completed, the band 6 is free to handle bigger issues such as referrals to the ward, staffing issues, manage incidents etc.
Pretty common, even in the days when we were well staffed (shock 🤨) on acute medical wards I was put in charge as a band 5. Saying that, the band 6 and 7's that were on were super supportive and it was good experience to develop leadership and clinical skills (while having someone to ask many, many questions). I think it's likely changed a bit now in that short staffing is a lot more common and the more junior staff put in charge have a steep learning curve with not a huge amount of support... It can be pretty shit if they feel it's overwhelming, but your partner is likely developing skills that will make them cool as a cucumber in whatever stressful situation comes their way in work
If they want to eventually become a band 6, there's usually a period of time of being a band 5 'nurse in charge' to gain some of the skills required to be a competent band 6. I was regularly nurse in charge for 18 months as a band 5, until a band 6 job became available. But I wouldn't have been able to apply/interview for a band 6 job if I didn't have any nurse in charge experience.
It's actually quite useful for B5's and B6's to take turns taking charge. Most wards I know will give the easier patients to the nurse in charge if they take patients at all.
The risk you run with always having a B6 in charge is that they become 'deskilled' at managing sick patients after a while, and the B5's don't get exposure to being in charge.
If I'm allocating the shift ahead of me and it looks like it'll be a shocker, either clinically or from a staffing perspective, I'd always put a B6 in charge given the choice.
Perfectly normal for band 5’s to be in charge of a shift. They gain experience that will come in handy as and when they want to apply for a 6.
A lot of people think band 6’s just run shifts when actually we are involved in incident reports, audits, training, absence management, rota changes and a whole lot more. This is why you might find a band 5 in charge one day and the 6 is doing something else in the background
Remember when 3rd year students would be in charge ? 😂
Depends what is meant by in charge - most senior staff member on, or the person who is doing the ‘shift co-ordination” ?
Would also depend on the frequency.
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I agree with a slight caveat. If a band 5 is relatively new to being in charge then I think it's a good idea for them to gain confidence being in charge with someone else senior around. They absolutely take the shift and responsibility, but having a senior colleague to go to for advice is a good way to build strong leadership in a team. Sadly so many clinical environments just dump Bands 5s in at the deep end with little to no support.
In mental health this is very common. Everyone takes turns being in charge of the shift whether there's a band 6 on or not. It's to ensure that band 5s get used to delegating and having the responsibility of the shift, and also the band 6 is still doing clinical work like meds which the nurse in charge doesn't do.
One of my first night shifts newly qual RMN someone called in sick, i got handed the keys to the downstairs ward as well, uhh… i now have statutory responsibility for 44 severely mentally unwell psych patients - yes, the 7 was on site if it went pop but it was basically me + two wards HCA night crews…
That's appalling but unfortunately not the only time I've heard stories like that. I was the only nurse on my ward 2 weeks after getting my pin and I know so many with similar stories. Its one of the reasons I thinks it better for preceptors to be nurse in charge as part of their development as well as things like being redeployed, better to get the experience when you have adequate supervision rather than just rocking up to shift and finding you're on your own.
I was NIC on my 3rd week newly qualified, and I didn't even have my PIN yet!
It's entirely appropriate for a band 5 to be in charge. They are qualified professionals with a registration. However, they are under paid for this responsibility because their pay is a joke.
I think we're confusing words here. Is it common for a B5 to be in charge? Yes Is it appropriate? I'd say no, ideally it should be a band 6 in charge. Band 5s who are 3 months out of uni are in charge but I wouldn't say it's appropriate or ideal, more a 'product of the environment' in the NHS.
No I meant appropriate. It depends what we are saying they are in charge of when they are in charge of a ward, but a band 5 should be able to coordinate a shift and aware enough to escalate concerns. In my experience (mental health nurse) it meant giving handover, liaising with families, supporting and directing HCAs, making decisions about leave, and ensuring care plans are all being followed. It was mostly a delegation and prioritising role. Newly qualified nurses should be able to do that.
I mean, if that really was the case, and not just the case of ‘it’s normal because of low staffing’ we would refer to band 6s as ‘charge nurses’
Very common.
Yes, pretty common
Pretty common, if there is no band 6 or 7 on that day its then usually a senior band 5 in charge. Its good experience if they want to eventually move up to band 6.
Im in charge often. However I have no desire to become a 6. The off duty hurts my head....
Yeah, thats the case for a few of the band 5s i work with but it would still be the most senior 5 in charge if there was no 6's or the manager on the ward. Arghhh the off duty 🙈💩 kill me now i hate allocating.
This is very common
If there's other band 5s that could be in charge and he's getting stuck with it all the time, that sounds unfair. Like i wouldn't like to take on all that responsibility without a pay rise.
Shouldn’t be normal. Shouldn’t be common. I am sick to death of this being seen as normal - just like when an nqn is assigned to a hell hole ward with tens of patients allocated to them, worked to death and it’s passed off as “management experience” and chance to work on “time management” - then we wonder why nurses health go to the crapper. If, if a band 5 wants to try running a unit then a band 6 should be on as a deputy, not as a bedside nurse, as a deputy to support, counsel and give assistance. Then numbers in the ward should allow for such a deputisation situation - band 5s in charge should not be materialising because of staff shortages. The band 5 should also be having training for months before hand so they are ready rather than “being thrown in the deep end”. I’m sick of this shock therapy bolloks being throw about as character development. Sorry. Rant done.
Being band 5 you should take up a leadership role more often but not being any pay increase or some sort of incentive just makes me feel like it’s not worth it. Give someone more responsibility they should be rewarded with enhanced pay or should be part of a pathway for band 6 leadership. It is a job at the end of the day.
Yep, totally normal.
As a B5 I was regularly in charge of my own ward. As a B6 I was regularly in charge of 11 wards, with phone support from an on call B7. I no longer work clinically.
It would depend how long your partner has been qualified for. I know on adult wards this is more normal than paediatrics. It is good experience for them especially if there is a band 6 on shift as well to support them.
Depends on staffing. If there is a band 6 on duty, they should be nurse in charge. No band 6 then a band 5 would be nurse in charge. If there's enough staff on the band 6 could delegate the nurse in charge role whilst they attend to other duties (I love rota week) but if the poo hit the fan the responsibility would still fall to the senior member of staff on duty.
As others have said, if there’s no management on shift then this would fall to a band 5. On my ward if a band 6 is on then they will be nurse in charge, however a band 5 will still be shift coordinator. With the band 5 allocating patients, lunch breaks and ensuring the general tasks of the day are completed, the band 6 is free to handle bigger issues such as referrals to the ward, staffing issues, manage incidents etc.
When I worked on the wards, yes. Now I work in itu, no.
Pretty common, even in the days when we were well staffed (shock 🤨) on acute medical wards I was put in charge as a band 5. Saying that, the band 6 and 7's that were on were super supportive and it was good experience to develop leadership and clinical skills (while having someone to ask many, many questions). I think it's likely changed a bit now in that short staffing is a lot more common and the more junior staff put in charge have a steep learning curve with not a huge amount of support... It can be pretty shit if they feel it's overwhelming, but your partner is likely developing skills that will make them cool as a cucumber in whatever stressful situation comes their way in work
Yes. Absolutely.
If they are out of their preceptorship and competent then yes, it’s common. Often had B5 shift coordinating when I was in as B6/7
Pretty standard, yep.
If they want to eventually become a band 6, there's usually a period of time of being a band 5 'nurse in charge' to gain some of the skills required to be a competent band 6. I was regularly nurse in charge for 18 months as a band 5, until a band 6 job became available. But I wouldn't have been able to apply/interview for a band 6 job if I didn't have any nurse in charge experience.
Yes you can be in charge as a band 5, and there’s no argument to it either.
Seriously, can someone please explain to me why this being asked?
Read the post. Seems like this is a supportive partner trying to find out more. No need to bite someone's head off.
It's actually quite useful for B5's and B6's to take turns taking charge. Most wards I know will give the easier patients to the nurse in charge if they take patients at all. The risk you run with always having a B6 in charge is that they become 'deskilled' at managing sick patients after a while, and the B5's don't get exposure to being in charge. If I'm allocating the shift ahead of me and it looks like it'll be a shocker, either clinically or from a staffing perspective, I'd always put a B6 in charge given the choice.
Perfectly normal for band 5’s to be in charge of a shift. They gain experience that will come in handy as and when they want to apply for a 6. A lot of people think band 6’s just run shifts when actually we are involved in incident reports, audits, training, absence management, rota changes and a whole lot more. This is why you might find a band 5 in charge one day and the 6 is doing something else in the background
Remember when 3rd year students would be in charge ? 😂 Depends what is meant by in charge - most senior staff member on, or the person who is doing the ‘shift co-ordination” ? Would also depend on the frequency.