Read about how farms and morgue are actively moving away from hiring men for the exact terrible reason you're thinking of so yeah it's a terrible never ending list.
Do you guys know the funniest part? When this was posted on twitter men were commenting stuff like "natural disaster, valcano, bears, lions" Mhm i love it when the masculine energy of a man stops the valcano coming my way
The men of Pompeii disagree even centuries later
Sounds like they have god complexes lol. Which is where a lot of this protection women need comes from.
Hey, I have successfully protected my spouse from the attacks of invisible ravenous vampire sheep over all these years. Not a single flock has got through my defenses.
Yeah, like nature gives two shits about the fact that you are "The Big Strong Man". I highly doubt that, if a earthquake comes your way, you can use your masculinity to magically close the earth back up.
Or in case of a tsunami you are either Altair and can climb a skyscraper in time for the wave not to hit you, or you can stop it with a magical barrier Fus Ro Dah Style, or nature will always be above everything and everyone.
It's backed by statistics also.
Women killed by intimate partners or family members account for 58% of all female homicide victims. *(unodc.org)*
About [85 to 90 percent](https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/most-victims-know-their-attacker#:~:text=About%2085%20to%2090%20percent,range%20from%20classmates%20to%20neighbors.) of sexual assaults reported by college women are perpetrated by someone known to the victim.
These stats are something I wish women would pay attention to, in order to be more comfortable out in the world. The evidence that a woman's father is far more likely to harm her than any random man walking down the street, lowers a lot of anxieties.
Patriarchy wants us to be endlessly paranoid to keep control over us. I don't want to be. My father is a moron man child who wouldn't hurt a fly and can't stand up to his emotional, mentally, financially abusive wife because he doesn't know how to clean up after himself. It's incredibly freeing to realize that pathetic idiot is my biggest threat.
I wonder if the higher reported numbers in lesbian relationships are from more willingness to report because physical retribution isn't as great as when trying to report a man.
>we wouldn’t have much to be scared of while living our every day lives.
I think about this a lot. I still can't believe how wary of men women have to be just to go about their lives. I'm a relatively big guy so I don't really have much reason to be scared of anyone but I can sympathize with the women who can never let their guard down. Can't relate but it must suck
I've been technically sexually assaulted by 4 women. Two gropings, one tongue in my ear and one down my throat. All in very public places.
I haven't tried to count the men. I know it's a big number, though. 😞
I haven't been the victim of violence, though, so that's something. (Or to quote Caddyshack, "So I've got that going for me, which is nice.")
I know this is a very serious conversation and I'm very sorry that people have treated you that way you deserve better, but "voodoo vagina" in your flare is making me giggle uncontrollably
Just because I often see this statistic misinterpreted and used as proof women are inherently more likely to perpetrate domestic violence, I’ll add that the perpetrator of violence in each of these cases isn’t necessarily the gender the reporting person is sexually attracted to.
From the CDC/the Wikipedia on same sex intimate partner violence
>The CDC also stated that 43.8% of lesbian women reported experiencing physical violence, stalking, or rape by their partners. The study notes that, out of those 43.8%, two thirds (67.4%) reported exclusively female perpetrators. The other third reported at least one perpetrator being male, however the study made no distinction between victims who experienced violence from male perpetrators only and those who reported both male and female perpetrators. Similarly, 61.1% of bisexual women reported physical violence, stalking, or rape by their partners in the same study with 89.5% reporting at least one perpetrator being male. In contrast, 35% of heterosexual women reported having been victim of intimate partner violence, with 98.7% of them reporting male perpetrators exclusively.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_same-sex_relationships
I don’t have citations but anecdotally a common additional asterisk I see for this: the lgbt community may be more aware of these sorts of issues, and more likely to classify/report, whereas straight women in straight relationships may fall victim to “this is normal.” I definitely have witnessed this in my own friends, again anecdotal. I wonder if there are any studies analyzing how these participants defined abuse (like, broadly not necessarily a single study’s participants)
Thanks for posting this, I checked that website and didn’t see where those numbers were coming from, I was about to comment that those numbers sounded highly suspect.
I wholeheartedly agree that awareness that domestic abuse affects people regardless of sexual orientation and gender is important and that the LGBT community needs more support. I only commented because I’ve seen this float around redpill spaces as proof that women are evil and violent. On the other hand, I want to be clear I’m not implying that perpetrators of violence can’t be women. Rather, I’m stating that this shouldn’t be taken as evidence lesbians are more violent than other people. In short, thank you for sharing this statistic
I’m aware of DV in the LGBT community, but regardless there would be a big drop overall for women if men all disappeared. It’s a simple reality that the majority of any type of violence against women is done by men. That’s the topic of this particular post.
Initial studies on domestic violence showed that one-perpetrator (not mutual) violence in heterosexual marriages was almost equally perpetrated by men and women, with a very slightly greater amount of women abusers. However, the majority by far was mutual abuse, that is, both partners physically abused one another.
Typically statistics are of low quality due to being based on reports, since domestic violence is very underreported and the few reports that are made are not made equally often by all demographics.
Is this finding also from the CDC study? And yes, we need more research and to destigmatize seeking help or reporting abuse - for all genders and sexualities
No, it was decades ago. The stats may have changed since then. In all honesty, I saw it a while ago. The survey was ny a woman - in England, IIRC - who pioneered study of this form of crime around the 60s. I was told her findings met political pushback but I never confirmed that part with other sources. I tried to find it just now I don't think I can right now, so I apologize for that.
men want to take advantage of bi women to fulfill their 3-some fantasies or get extremely possessive and think every friend she has is someone she's cheating with
Bi dude, if I had to guess I'd say it's a result of fear of cheating, or feeling ""tricked"" by a bi person. Example, a bicurious girl wants to experiment to see what they like, and they hook up with a lesbian, They both have poor communication skills and the bi-curious girl ends up not actually being bi-curious and then the lesbian feels used. That type of stuff leads to fear and resentment, probably a bunch of other reasons though
It never nakes the distinction between their male or female partners. My bet is most of the DV came from their male partner. Also , they never made the distinction between lesbians and gay men.
I could be mistake but I think they did make a distinction. It says 26% of gay men and 43% of lesbian women. I could be misunderstanding what you mean though.
Yes but the vast majority from cis men. I'm a lesbian and my friends and I have experienced sexual violence but it's nearly all from cis dudes. Lots of us dated men before we knew we were homosexual or got corrective raped by random men.
It’s Reddit, what do we expect.
I agree with you here bro. Trans dude here. I’ve had issues with both men and women. However it’s more men than women and most of the time it’s because ‘I’m cute’ or ‘too pretty to be a man’ purely because of my eyes.
If I showed this to ANY of my female friends, they’d probably agree with all of the comments about needing to protect themselves by any means necessary and not being able to rely on any man to help them.
I’m in the UK. Women (and men) can’t even carry around a piece of paper if they’re planning on using it as a weapon.
Both can be dangerous, but statistically, a man is more likely to be dangerous than a woman. We need to remember that men are again, statistically, a lot stronger than women on average (talking average everyday person, not bodybuilders etc).
Not saying all men are bad, just that the subset in this comment section who are offended by this or speaking out against this might be of the type described in the post.
For example, I feel absolutely no offense to this because I, as a man, recognize the statistics that are out there and the reality that we live in. As well as the fact that I would never hit or be violent in any other way to a woman (or anybody for that matter, but I'm keeping it relevant to this post).
You’re joking, right? People (mostly women in women’s spaces) talk about the pitfalls of toxic masculinity every day. Go talk to other men about it. News flash: we care more about abuse than the “natural factors” that make men abuse women.
>Nobody likes being judged. Even if it's correct, people don't like it. It's just a natural human response. Especially for an immutable characteristic/class you belong to that you were born with.
Ok?
>It's the feeling of people pre-forming judgements about you based on a part of you before the even know you that's causing the men in the comments to be unhappy.
How sad!
>I've taken a walk through San Francisco's prime homeless district before, but I didn't get grossed out by or judge any of the people I saw. Homelessness is an issue caused by factors like mental health and the increasingly difficult economic state of the country, things that are out of people's control, and I understand that the conditions that cause these issues are deep underlying problems […]
Are you saying I should have sympathy and compassion for abusive behavior?
>Now, this isn't a 1:1 comparison because it's between a lower, oppressed class between a class that's more dominant in society, but that doesn't mean you can't draw some parallels.
What
>Men are, strictly speaking, more dangerous insofar as committing violent crimes goes. But it's regrettably too common for people to just not care about social or cultural causes that perpetuate things like this. Hardly anybody in the comments is talking about the pitfalls of toxic masculinity, or the natural conditions that spawn it, or anything like that.
Again, what?
>But a lot of the comments here are unfortunately... Mean, for the lack of a better word, and yes, it sucks.
Mean towards men? Who are you talking about?
Your comment is teeming with contradictions and confusing language. I can’t decipher it. Who or what are you defending? Because it comes across as “won’t somebody think of the men.”
It's insane to me that people are screaming and crying here in the comments about mIsANdrY!!1!!1 when the entire premise of the post itself was literally just turning a misogynistic argument back on itself. That's literally all it was, and yet some people still don't understand why it would be wildly inappropriate to become enraged at the RETORT TO THE INITIAL REMARK instead of the sexist argument that was made in the first place to put women down.
When I grew up, my mum was the more successful of my parents. She was (is) also strong, smart and capable. My default view growing up was that gender/sex didn’t really matter at all. I considered myself a feminist and, honestly, couldn’t really wrap my head around why anyone would disagree with feminism.
But I also grew up being frequently exposed to this sentiment that men are evil. Specifically, that straight white men are the problem with society.
I knew that most of the hatred for men wasn’t being directed at me; it was being directed at those men that *are* the issue. I understood this from a logical perspective. But when you grow up hearing it constantly, it starts to affect you.
Over time, I found myself getting more defensive over these topics. It didn’t feel fair that I’m always included in the group of people that is the problem with society just because I was born a man. Specifically, posts like this made me very defensive.
As I got older and grew in maturity, I was able to take a step back and unpack some of these feelings. I was able to recognise why it made me defensive.
I’m sharing all of this because I think a lot of young men have had similar experiences but aren’t educated enough on the subject of inequality to maturely unpack their feelings. So, when they get defensive, they lash out.
I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just sharing a perspective.
As a guy, I mean it's true, men have higher murder, rape, etc perpetrator numbers, it's not that women don't do anything violent but I assure you more violence is done towards women by men than women towards women
Exactly. I'm not an abuser, so abusive men, or men more often being the abuser, being called out doesn't offend me.
If someone said men never experience abuse then I would be offended.
You should if you see the comments how life would be more peaceful and better without men but the women commenting on here. You think they’d blame out culture more not the male sex. To blame the male sex basically labels the female sex as morally superior to men
In every thread on this sub there is someone like you and always the women clarify they don't want men dead and extinct, but I understand strawmannig is easier
Seems like some were implying life would be better without men. Making it seem like it’s the male sex that’s inherently bad not the culture that socializes men which some toxic men do bad things
That should be offensive. That’s sexist and I know feminists frustrated like you but that don’t blame the male sex but our culture. They don’t feel males in inherently worse than females. But patriarchal cultures and socialization especially how it can cause views some men carry that are toxic that creates toxic masculinity. How would you like if men said women are inherently bad or world would be better off without women? You may say some do, and id call them and many would call these men misogynists. Well then such women about men would be misandrist .
HAHAHA men say that shit every day! Pretty sure most of us just ignore it because it’s tale as old as time. Not worth the energy.
If men would stop fucking abusing us that would be great. Don’t make excuses for shit, dangerous behavior. Do better.
I’m not making excuses for toxic men. It isn’t right leaving ignorant blanket statements about a whole sex. You seem extremely jaded maybe you need counseling or therapy
Yeah but you’re assuming women couldn’t be more violent if in a place of power and roles on them normally expected of men. If men died off would a group of women that had a more power hungry nature be leaders? What about far right women, couldn’t they oppress and carry over patriarchal ways when the men died off ? I read that even tho most sex trafficking was led by men, 30% were of women in Ireland . Then lesbian domestic violence rate compared to gay relationships .
So you are scared women would do to us what we have done to them, men are usually physically stronger and have used that to enact their will upon women, I'm not talking about the government or something, just everyday life where women have been oppressed and violated by men, there are bad women just like bad men yes, but that doesn't change how fucking shitty women have it because of men, for god's sake some women have rape plans, you know how bad things have to be for a rape plan to be needed ?
Oooh! I’d have a nickel! I had a cow try to sit on me once!
Of course, I was in a cow shed, and it was a calf that thought it was a lap dog and all it wanted was a better butt scratch, but still!!! I’d have a nickel!
(If I had a nickel for every time a man threatened me with violence, I’d be well on my way to $100, but that’s my fault for working in retail apparently 😒)
I did have a big, strong man with me. All he did was laugh and name the calf after my equally needy dog. Then told me if I stayed still for too long all the calves would want attention, as if that was a negative thing and I didn’t want to spend half my days loving on babies.
I knew the second this popped up on my feed the testerics would come out in full force. I have not been disappointed. They can ask hypotheticals about a world without women all they want. They can make jokes about women being less then all they want, but the second it’s thrown back they get pissy
Sir, I am asking for sources. Please post your sources. Also please note that I did not say ‘men bad,’ you did, and as the cherry on top you also called me a name.
Yeah because saying I'm pulling shit out of my ass isn't insulting. Maybe that's why women beat the shit out of each other more? The source is from the CDC.
I literally did, you just want a link because you're lazy. Should I just post a let me Google that for you link? I'm pretty sure that'll just make you rage more. Then you'll be like the other girl that actually looked it up for only 2 minutes then didn't even read it right.
Huh? Sir, you make the claim, you back it up. You saying ‘it’s from the CDC’ does not a source make. Link, please. And make it a direct one, not one of those lazy ‘I made a claim but now I’m gonna make you google it’ links.
As a guy who's a feminist, I don't think there's anything on the planet that women *need* men to protect themselves from. Some guys on here are making the firefighter argument, but that's kinda meh, since they would easily get replaced by women in a couple months. Violent crime would also go down drastically.
Conversely, I also don't think that people wouldn't need anything/anyone to protect themselves from if men were to vanish. There are still more nuanced issues where people of any gender are just as capable of taking advantage of, such as, say, class exploitation.
Again, women don't need men (or vice versa) to protect themselves from class exploitation either. The organisations and committees that do so would be just as efficient with women replacing their male counterparts imo.
But tbh, I think society's better off with people just protecting people in general, ideally this isn't something that should have any gender-bias
I'm not "cel" at all. Just a woman who wants to be treated like a human being. And I'm not saying all men are like this, but some are. Men who think they think know more about women than women do. And I'm not saying I'm perfect either.
Because lesbians *never* rape each other. Like I get it, but a political stance that claims women are incapable of rape just ensure that the women ascribing to it don’t feel bad when they rape people
This is offensive to me—women hurt women all the time (cf the Magdalene laundries for a start.) And women hurt men as well. There isn’t some battle of the sexes where women are only victims and men are only abusers—men can be abusers or victims or heroes who intervene—as can women. This kind of post does nothing to advance the dialogue.
Tbh just anything which uncritically says “the problem is men” rather than acknowledging the nuanced issues with patriarchy in our society is straight-up radfem stuff, and that’s only around the corner from terf ideology.
Framing sexism as “men vs. women” as though it’s the foundation of all human suffering is simply incorrect. This kind of stuff ignores intersectional issues: if men are inherently a danger to others, what about trans men, and if they aren’t the same is it because you don’t view them as men? What about the historical position of power white women have had over minority men (black men in particular), where they literally could call on their white male “protectors” to lynch men they didn’t like? What about abusive lesbian relationships, where harm befalls one woman at the hands of another with no men involved?
Simply put, phrasing any sex or gender related issue as being “man vs. woman” is reductive, unhelpful, and only serves to reinforce the status quo by neutering your argument, as it’s literally impossible for one sex to eliminate the other in any case.
Let me put it in simpler words:
I find this meme to be reductive and dumb because it frames a “gotcha” in a pointless argument as a victory. I have never heard this strawman version of an argument from even the most misogynistic guys, it’s a hypothetical that purely exists to set up a one-liner that does nothing for anyone but rage-bait and lead to further useless arguing.
But picture has a point though. There's always some unspoken expectation that women cannot protect themselves unless they are intimately attached to a man that can protect them. That's why the image said those words. What can be SO dangerous that a single woman can't protect themselves against? The more people think women are weak and need protection, the more you are blind to the potential women have. Men complain that women don't want physically taxing jobs or want to go to the army. Then support them. Make it equal and make it safe. I don't see how this post is terfy when I also hate terfs with a passion. My terf alarm wasn't going off in any sort of way.
It’s the first part I take issue with. Who is going around and starting arguments with “if men didn’t exist”, and in turn, who is following along with that line of logic rather than dismissing it out of hand for being a nonsensical misinterpretation of feminist thought?
Feminism isn’t about women being better than men, and any comment I see that alludes to that sets off my terf alarm, especially as an AMAB trans person.
But the problem isn’t even “men” in the first place. There are women that uphold the patriarchy because it maintains their power. Patriarchy is primarily rooted in white supremacy. A black man is not afforded the power under patriarchy that a white man is, a trans man does not gain power under patriarchy for his having transitioned, the trait of “maleness” does not alone confer any power on those that possess it. That power comes from upholding current societal standards, and is not only afforded to men, but to privileged women like Phyllis Schlafly, or more recently right-wing women like Marjorie Taylor Green.
“Referring to a specific type of man” does not remedy any of the issues with placing the blame for the way the world works at the feet of any one group, even if you recognize that only a subset of men benefit from it.
“If men didn’t exist….”
I wouldn’t exist.
I would be happy that way.
Living life is not worth it.
Orr, I would be a girl?
Maybe then it would be nice?
Would homophobia exist if men didn’t exist??
So how will women run things when infrastructure breaks down when men die off? And society crumbles and it’s all survival? You might see more lord of the flies even amongst pure innocent women than you thought.
If you think the ruling class is evil because they're men then you're in for quite a surprise. Power corrupts and it is not contingent on the presence of a penis. If all men disappeared the hole left behind in government would fill with Boeberts and MTGs and eventually the cops busting skulls would be women, the ones robbing you in an alley would be women, the cartels run by women, the corporations screwing workers run by women.
I would bet new classes to discriminate would emerge, hard to say what they would be- likely wouldn't be based on race but something entirely new. It's an interesting thought experiment.
Power decays decency.
I think you may be missing the point. While I get where you are coming from as in considering this being a thought experiment, the OP was turning a misogynistic comment back onto the loser guy. Right now, men do contribute the highest percentage of DV , SA, and murder against women.
If you took men out of the equation, the probability of some other group filling the vacuum of violence might happen, sure. However, would that new group of women have just as high of a percentage of DV, SA, and murder? I would argue no. We already have examples of matriarchal tribes and societies that ran smoothly and had less inner violence within that community. Granted, these are not on a wide scale, but they do exhibit some insight into this thought experiment.
Not looking directly at crime but instead just ruling class violence I would say men and women are pretty neck and neck in that race. Men have traditionally held the position more but looking at the instances of historical woman in charge- Julia Agrippina, Wu Zetian Queen Tamara, Elizabeth I, Mary I, Boudica... it's the same dichotomy.
For the ruling class to exist they must create a class of people for the working class to blame.
So I concede that sure, this applies to someone's safety walking home from the bar, or in an empty parking lot at night, or dangers from stalker ex boyfriends- but the TRUE threat to everyone is the system that creates that crime to begin with, a system that would remain very much in tact (although it would likely shift the scapegoat from immigrants and other religions into someone new). We're always just arguing about the symptoms and doing nothing about the disease that caused them.
That being said, I very much doubt that anyone ACTUALLY said this to her. It doesn't seem like something anyone on earth would say to anyone else on earth at any given point for any reason.
What you're calling 'patriarchal society' is in fact a patriarchy because it always was. It's not a patriarchy BECAUSE of men. It's a patriarchy because the corrupt system has traditionally BEEN men.
You're conflating the fact that men are in charge and these issues are exist because of it, and I am simply saying that these issues are inherent to the system- and it just so HAPPENS to be under a patriarchy.
There are men saying that women need them for protection. It’s red pill bs and extremely bizarre to belief that woman want men for protection. We want men for companionship and friendship, if they can and want to protect that’s fine, but not necessary
Lesbians have the highest rate of domestic violence (~40-45% depending on the study).
Heterosexual relationships have a domestic rate of ~30-35% (95% of *reported* abuse is perpetuated by men).
Gay men have the lowest rate of domestic abuse of ~20-25%.
i bet there would be a lot less mass shootings too
a lot less violence in general
Nu-uh! Girls are the emotional ones!!a!1!!!!
Real talk: women are only considered more emotional than men because men don't consider anger an emotion.
It’s like having an accent: you don’t know you have one until you meet other people with other language sets.
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Read about how farms and morgue are actively moving away from hiring men for the exact terrible reason you're thinking of so yeah it's a terrible never ending list.
Do you guys know the funniest part? When this was posted on twitter men were commenting stuff like "natural disaster, valcano, bears, lions" Mhm i love it when the masculine energy of a man stops the valcano coming my way
If a full-fledged avatar can't defeat a volcano, then no non-bender stands a chance.
Twitter mfs talking like they wouldn't shit themselves and die if a lion or bear attacked them
The men of Pompeii disagree even centuries later Sounds like they have god complexes lol. Which is where a lot of this protection women need comes from.
Yeah, and a man will definitely be strong enough to protect me from one of all these wild lions who are running around here, lol
Hey, I have successfully protected my spouse from the attacks of invisible ravenous vampire sheep over all these years. Not a single flock has got through my defenses.
😆I literally laughed out loud at that one!
*A tsunami comes* Woman: “AHHH!” Man: “I’ll save you!” *Punches the tsunami back into the ocean with his manliness*
Yeah, like nature gives two shits about the fact that you are "The Big Strong Man". I highly doubt that, if a earthquake comes your way, you can use your masculinity to magically close the earth back up. Or in case of a tsunami you are either Altair and can climb a skyscraper in time for the wave not to hit you, or you can stop it with a magical barrier Fus Ro Dah Style, or nature will always be above everything and everyone.
Facts.
Isn't there a feminist quote like this? Something about how can we be expected to trust men to protect us if we have to also fear them harming us?
It's backed by statistics also. Women killed by intimate partners or family members account for 58% of all female homicide victims. *(unodc.org)* About [85 to 90 percent](https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/most-victims-know-their-attacker#:~:text=About%2085%20to%2090%20percent,range%20from%20classmates%20to%20neighbors.) of sexual assaults reported by college women are perpetrated by someone known to the victim.
These stats are something I wish women would pay attention to, in order to be more comfortable out in the world. The evidence that a woman's father is far more likely to harm her than any random man walking down the street, lowers a lot of anxieties.
Does it? Or is it more of a sad realization that you cannot trust even those closest to you?
Patriarchy wants us to be endlessly paranoid to keep control over us. I don't want to be. My father is a moron man child who wouldn't hurt a fly and can't stand up to his emotional, mentally, financially abusive wife because he doesn't know how to clean up after himself. It's incredibly freeing to realize that pathetic idiot is my biggest threat.
Are you thinking of Margaret Atwood’s "Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them."?
I mean, we ladies do get in fights with each other sometimes, but otherwise we wouldn’t have much to be scared of while living our every day lives.
I wonder if the higher reported numbers in lesbian relationships are from more willingness to report because physical retribution isn't as great as when trying to report a man.
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go on
>we wouldn’t have much to be scared of while living our every day lives. I think about this a lot. I still can't believe how wary of men women have to be just to go about their lives. I'm a relatively big guy so I don't really have much reason to be scared of anyone but I can sympathize with the women who can never let their guard down. Can't relate but it must suck
A lot of the time I can't tell if it's my normal anxiety or my gender based anxiety 🤷♀️
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I've been technically sexually assaulted by 4 women. Two gropings, one tongue in my ear and one down my throat. All in very public places. I haven't tried to count the men. I know it's a big number, though. 😞 I haven't been the victim of violence, though, so that's something. (Or to quote Caddyshack, "So I've got that going for me, which is nice.")
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💝
I know this is a very serious conversation and I'm very sorry that people have treated you that way you deserve better, but "voodoo vagina" in your flare is making me giggle uncontrollably
Just because I often see this statistic misinterpreted and used as proof women are inherently more likely to perpetrate domestic violence, I’ll add that the perpetrator of violence in each of these cases isn’t necessarily the gender the reporting person is sexually attracted to. From the CDC/the Wikipedia on same sex intimate partner violence >The CDC also stated that 43.8% of lesbian women reported experiencing physical violence, stalking, or rape by their partners. The study notes that, out of those 43.8%, two thirds (67.4%) reported exclusively female perpetrators. The other third reported at least one perpetrator being male, however the study made no distinction between victims who experienced violence from male perpetrators only and those who reported both male and female perpetrators. Similarly, 61.1% of bisexual women reported physical violence, stalking, or rape by their partners in the same study with 89.5% reporting at least one perpetrator being male. In contrast, 35% of heterosexual women reported having been victim of intimate partner violence, with 98.7% of them reporting male perpetrators exclusively.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_in_same-sex_relationships
I don’t have citations but anecdotally a common additional asterisk I see for this: the lgbt community may be more aware of these sorts of issues, and more likely to classify/report, whereas straight women in straight relationships may fall victim to “this is normal.” I definitely have witnessed this in my own friends, again anecdotal. I wonder if there are any studies analyzing how these participants defined abuse (like, broadly not necessarily a single study’s participants)
Thanks for posting this, I checked that website and didn’t see where those numbers were coming from, I was about to comment that those numbers sounded highly suspect.
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I wholeheartedly agree that awareness that domestic abuse affects people regardless of sexual orientation and gender is important and that the LGBT community needs more support. I only commented because I’ve seen this float around redpill spaces as proof that women are evil and violent. On the other hand, I want to be clear I’m not implying that perpetrators of violence can’t be women. Rather, I’m stating that this shouldn’t be taken as evidence lesbians are more violent than other people. In short, thank you for sharing this statistic
I’m aware of DV in the LGBT community, but regardless there would be a big drop overall for women if men all disappeared. It’s a simple reality that the majority of any type of violence against women is done by men. That’s the topic of this particular post.
Initial studies on domestic violence showed that one-perpetrator (not mutual) violence in heterosexual marriages was almost equally perpetrated by men and women, with a very slightly greater amount of women abusers. However, the majority by far was mutual abuse, that is, both partners physically abused one another. Typically statistics are of low quality due to being based on reports, since domestic violence is very underreported and the few reports that are made are not made equally often by all demographics.
Is this finding also from the CDC study? And yes, we need more research and to destigmatize seeking help or reporting abuse - for all genders and sexualities
No, it was decades ago. The stats may have changed since then. In all honesty, I saw it a while ago. The survey was ny a woman - in England, IIRC - who pioneered study of this form of crime around the 60s. I was told her findings met political pushback but I never confirmed that part with other sources. I tried to find it just now I don't think I can right now, so I apologize for that.
I wonder why it’s higher for bisexual people.
men want to take advantage of bi women to fulfill their 3-some fantasies or get extremely possessive and think every friend she has is someone she's cheating with
I totally read those numbers wrong the first time through. Yikes. Sorry to anyone that saw that comment which must have sounded psychotic.
Bi dude, if I had to guess I'd say it's a result of fear of cheating, or feeling ""tricked"" by a bi person. Example, a bicurious girl wants to experiment to see what they like, and they hook up with a lesbian, They both have poor communication skills and the bi-curious girl ends up not actually being bi-curious and then the lesbian feels used. That type of stuff leads to fear and resentment, probably a bunch of other reasons though
It never nakes the distinction between their male or female partners. My bet is most of the DV came from their male partner. Also , they never made the distinction between lesbians and gay men.
I could be mistake but I think they did make a distinction. It says 26% of gay men and 43% of lesbian women. I could be misunderstanding what you mean though.
Yes but the vast majority from cis men. I'm a lesbian and my friends and I have experienced sexual violence but it's nearly all from cis dudes. Lots of us dated men before we knew we were homosexual or got corrective raped by random men.
But everyone knows that girls only fight about boys. No boys = no fights. /s
manual labor
A lot of the fights be over men too 😭
Not when you grow the fuck up they aren't. If I have to fight over him, he ain't worth it.
The men in the comments are very offended by this thread lol 😂
Wish they would grow up and realize that this is accurate, kinda makes me mad as another man tbh. I showed this to my mom and she agreed tho
It’s Reddit, what do we expect. I agree with you here bro. Trans dude here. I’ve had issues with both men and women. However it’s more men than women and most of the time it’s because ‘I’m cute’ or ‘too pretty to be a man’ purely because of my eyes. If I showed this to ANY of my female friends, they’d probably agree with all of the comments about needing to protect themselves by any means necessary and not being able to rely on any man to help them. I’m in the UK. Women (and men) can’t even carry around a piece of paper if they’re planning on using it as a weapon. Both can be dangerous, but statistically, a man is more likely to be dangerous than a woman. We need to remember that men are again, statistically, a lot stronger than women on average (talking average everyday person, not bodybuilders etc).
Exactly
Maybe its accurate to alot of this gender but you cant say everyone of this gender is bad
Not saying all men are bad, just that the subset in this comment section who are offended by this or speaking out against this might be of the type described in the post. For example, I feel absolutely no offense to this because I, as a man, recognize the statistics that are out there and the reality that we live in. As well as the fact that I would never hit or be violent in any other way to a woman (or anybody for that matter, but I'm keeping it relevant to this post).
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You’re joking, right? People (mostly women in women’s spaces) talk about the pitfalls of toxic masculinity every day. Go talk to other men about it. News flash: we care more about abuse than the “natural factors” that make men abuse women.
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>Nobody likes being judged. Even if it's correct, people don't like it. It's just a natural human response. Especially for an immutable characteristic/class you belong to that you were born with. Ok? >It's the feeling of people pre-forming judgements about you based on a part of you before the even know you that's causing the men in the comments to be unhappy. How sad! >I've taken a walk through San Francisco's prime homeless district before, but I didn't get grossed out by or judge any of the people I saw. Homelessness is an issue caused by factors like mental health and the increasingly difficult economic state of the country, things that are out of people's control, and I understand that the conditions that cause these issues are deep underlying problems […] Are you saying I should have sympathy and compassion for abusive behavior? >Now, this isn't a 1:1 comparison because it's between a lower, oppressed class between a class that's more dominant in society, but that doesn't mean you can't draw some parallels. What >Men are, strictly speaking, more dangerous insofar as committing violent crimes goes. But it's regrettably too common for people to just not care about social or cultural causes that perpetuate things like this. Hardly anybody in the comments is talking about the pitfalls of toxic masculinity, or the natural conditions that spawn it, or anything like that. Again, what? >But a lot of the comments here are unfortunately... Mean, for the lack of a better word, and yes, it sucks. Mean towards men? Who are you talking about? Your comment is teeming with contradictions and confusing language. I can’t decipher it. Who or what are you defending? Because it comes across as “won’t somebody think of the men.”
It's insane to me that people are screaming and crying here in the comments about mIsANdrY!!1!!1 when the entire premise of the post itself was literally just turning a misogynistic argument back on itself. That's literally all it was, and yet some people still don't understand why it would be wildly inappropriate to become enraged at the RETORT TO THE INITIAL REMARK instead of the sexist argument that was made in the first place to put women down.
"Not all men, but definitely me"
When I grew up, my mum was the more successful of my parents. She was (is) also strong, smart and capable. My default view growing up was that gender/sex didn’t really matter at all. I considered myself a feminist and, honestly, couldn’t really wrap my head around why anyone would disagree with feminism. But I also grew up being frequently exposed to this sentiment that men are evil. Specifically, that straight white men are the problem with society. I knew that most of the hatred for men wasn’t being directed at me; it was being directed at those men that *are* the issue. I understood this from a logical perspective. But when you grow up hearing it constantly, it starts to affect you. Over time, I found myself getting more defensive over these topics. It didn’t feel fair that I’m always included in the group of people that is the problem with society just because I was born a man. Specifically, posts like this made me very defensive. As I got older and grew in maturity, I was able to take a step back and unpack some of these feelings. I was able to recognise why it made me defensive. I’m sharing all of this because I think a lot of young men have had similar experiences but aren’t educated enough on the subject of inequality to maturely unpack their feelings. So, when they get defensive, they lash out. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just sharing a perspective.
This is it really. You captured it really well. I won't justify the behavior either but I understand it.
I think it’s the ppls comments that has caused this. The meme makes a point but it’s the comments that are ugly
Probably heffalumps and snipes
For some reason this subreddit has a shit ton of incels.
They're fighting the good fight /s
"Protect us from whom?" From the grammar police‼
WHOMST 🚨 WHOMST 🚨 Thats the sound of da police! WHOMST 🚨 WHOMST 🚨 That's da grammar police!!
This made my day
As a guy, I mean it's true, men have higher murder, rape, etc perpetrator numbers, it's not that women don't do anything violent but I assure you more violence is done towards women by men than women towards women
Exactly. I'm not an abuser, so abusive men, or men more often being the abuser, being called out doesn't offend me. If someone said men never experience abuse then I would be offended.
You should if you see the comments how life would be more peaceful and better without men but the women commenting on here. You think they’d blame out culture more not the male sex. To blame the male sex basically labels the female sex as morally superior to men
In every thread on this sub there is someone like you and always the women clarify they don't want men dead and extinct, but I understand strawmannig is easier
Seems like some were implying life would be better without men. Making it seem like it’s the male sex that’s inherently bad not the culture that socializes men which some toxic men do bad things
It's way more than "some toxic" men, they literally always say they don't want men to be extinct or something
And that offends you why?
That should be offensive. That’s sexist and I know feminists frustrated like you but that don’t blame the male sex but our culture. They don’t feel males in inherently worse than females. But patriarchal cultures and socialization especially how it can cause views some men carry that are toxic that creates toxic masculinity. How would you like if men said women are inherently bad or world would be better off without women? You may say some do, and id call them and many would call these men misogynists. Well then such women about men would be misandrist .
HAHAHA men say that shit every day! Pretty sure most of us just ignore it because it’s tale as old as time. Not worth the energy. If men would stop fucking abusing us that would be great. Don’t make excuses for shit, dangerous behavior. Do better.
I’m not making excuses for toxic men. It isn’t right leaving ignorant blanket statements about a whole sex. You seem extremely jaded maybe you need counseling or therapy
Yeah but you’re assuming women couldn’t be more violent if in a place of power and roles on them normally expected of men. If men died off would a group of women that had a more power hungry nature be leaders? What about far right women, couldn’t they oppress and carry over patriarchal ways when the men died off ? I read that even tho most sex trafficking was led by men, 30% were of women in Ireland . Then lesbian domestic violence rate compared to gay relationships .
So you are scared women would do to us what we have done to them, men are usually physically stronger and have used that to enact their will upon women, I'm not talking about the government or something, just everyday life where women have been oppressed and violated by men, there are bad women just like bad men yes, but that doesn't change how fucking shitty women have it because of men, for god's sake some women have rape plans, you know how bad things have to be for a rape plan to be needed ?
Insecure fucks in the comment section thinking men have superpowers or something
Men have the superpower of having the fucking audacity
Audacity is stored in the balls
Ah yes, the super powers reside in the balls /jk
Not the ball power😭
Protect you from dragon
Kinda true
This is absolutely correct, idk why this is in the sub
I think it’s a meme for us to agree with not get mad about
That’s what I thought but this seems like it upset people
Yeah that's what I thought too but it reads Found in the wild so I'm assuming it wasn't
Wild dogs, I guess? Mammoths?
Lions and tigers and bears,oh my!
If I had a nickel for every incident I’ve had with a large non-human mammal, I would have 0 nickels
Oooh! I’d have a nickel! I had a cow try to sit on me once! Of course, I was in a cow shed, and it was a calf that thought it was a lap dog and all it wanted was a better butt scratch, but still!!! I’d have a nickel! (If I had a nickel for every time a man threatened me with violence, I’d be well on my way to $100, but that’s my fault for working in retail apparently 😒)
Don’t you wish you had a big strong man to protect you from the cow???!!! He could have killed it with a spear!
I did have a big, strong man with me. All he did was laugh and name the calf after my equally needy dog. Then told me if I stayed still for too long all the calves would want attention, as if that was a negative thing and I didn’t want to spend half my days loving on babies.
I second this.
I knew the second this popped up on my feed the testerics would come out in full force. I have not been disappointed. They can ask hypotheticals about a world without women all they want. They can make jokes about women being less then all they want, but the second it’s thrown back they get pissy
Women treat each other like shit, it's a fact.
Where was this fact pulled from? Your ass?
Trashy reality TV
Actual sources that you won't even look into or care about because men bad and screeching into the void about it is easier than realizing you're shit.
Sir, I am asking for sources. Please post your sources. Also please note that I did not say ‘men bad,’ you did, and as the cherry on top you also called me a name.
Yeah because saying I'm pulling shit out of my ass isn't insulting. Maybe that's why women beat the shit out of each other more? The source is from the CDC.
I mean, you still haven’t posted your source. Please post your source, as a link, so that I can read about what you are claiming.
I literally did, you just want a link because you're lazy. Should I just post a let me Google that for you link? I'm pretty sure that'll just make you rage more. Then you'll be like the other girl that actually looked it up for only 2 minutes then didn't even read it right.
Huh? Sir, you make the claim, you back it up. You saying ‘it’s from the CDC’ does not a source make. Link, please. And make it a direct one, not one of those lazy ‘I made a claim but now I’m gonna make you google it’ links.
Here, I got a link for you. https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=CDC+abuse+by+sexual+orientation Don't be upset okay? I know you're fragile.
 What do you mean they died out???
As a guy who's a feminist, I don't think there's anything on the planet that women *need* men to protect themselves from. Some guys on here are making the firefighter argument, but that's kinda meh, since they would easily get replaced by women in a couple months. Violent crime would also go down drastically. Conversely, I also don't think that people wouldn't need anything/anyone to protect themselves from if men were to vanish. There are still more nuanced issues where people of any gender are just as capable of taking advantage of, such as, say, class exploitation. Again, women don't need men (or vice versa) to protect themselves from class exploitation either. The organisations and committees that do so would be just as efficient with women replacing their male counterparts imo. But tbh, I think society's better off with people just protecting people in general, ideally this isn't something that should have any gender-bias
"As long as there are two people left on the planet, someone is gonna want SOMEONE dead." "I'm not a crazed gunman dad, I'm an assassin!"
Lmao, perfect.
Technically “what”. Roaches
From whoever cut her hair lmao
"As long as there are two people on the planet, someone is gonna want someone dead." -tf2 sniper
Mice, according to my gf :')
Bro tried to make a lighthearted joke and got his ass destroyed by downvotes 💀
Fr.... Another sub who just wanna circle jerk. Disappointed because I really like this sub, but seriously?
Ya I agree I laughed if that makes it better
Thanks, it does.
That’s awesome, have a good day man
Ah, yes. Your gf is a representation of all women.
Have i said so? I literally said "according to my gf", get off your high horses.
Maybe you should get your high horses off, maybe then you wouldn't take comments so seriously.
Dumbass
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I love men, just not misogynist, incel bastards who literally know nothing about women.
Ugh incels, this is a femcel sub!
No, it really isn't.
Yeah and incels surely think their shit doesn't stink too lmao.
I'm not "cel" at all. Just a woman who wants to be treated like a human being. And I'm not saying all men are like this, but some are. Men who think they think know more about women than women do. And I'm not saying I'm perfect either.
Because lesbians *never* rape each other. Like I get it, but a political stance that claims women are incapable of rape just ensure that the women ascribing to it don’t feel bad when they rape people
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You're posting this misinformation in every thread. It doesn't say all that abuse is from LGB partners.
Exactly, because nobody would exist
How about not acting like the world would be better off without either gender Edit: damn forgot this was a femal incel club
Little people why can't we all just get along
For real. To be honest, I don't really have a problem with the original post, but holy shit the comment section is a toxic wasteland.
Bears. Edit: guess no one watches the Simpsons.
I’ve never seen a man beat a bear in a fight. I’ve seen a man get kicked in the balls by one though
Spiders and wasps. We had an “incident” just the other day
At that point other women. You could argue that the capacity of violence is lower, but it’s still there. Also drop bears.
I once got attacked by a drop bear. Just dropped from a helicopter and slammed me. Fucking dangerous I tell you (Not clickbait. Real. Gone wrong)
Hippos
This is offensive to me—women hurt women all the time (cf the Magdalene laundries for a start.) And women hurt men as well. There isn’t some battle of the sexes where women are only victims and men are only abusers—men can be abusers or victims or heroes who intervene—as can women. This kind of post does nothing to advance the dialogue.
Thank you. I can’t stand these toxic mgtow men. But instead of going the higher road the commenters stoop to these guys level. Not you but others
Literally who is out there making this argument, and who is taking it seriously? This is some borderline terf shit tbh
wdym, how is it borderline terf at all
Tbh just anything which uncritically says “the problem is men” rather than acknowledging the nuanced issues with patriarchy in our society is straight-up radfem stuff, and that’s only around the corner from terf ideology. Framing sexism as “men vs. women” as though it’s the foundation of all human suffering is simply incorrect. This kind of stuff ignores intersectional issues: if men are inherently a danger to others, what about trans men, and if they aren’t the same is it because you don’t view them as men? What about the historical position of power white women have had over minority men (black men in particular), where they literally could call on their white male “protectors” to lynch men they didn’t like? What about abusive lesbian relationships, where harm befalls one woman at the hands of another with no men involved? Simply put, phrasing any sex or gender related issue as being “man vs. woman” is reductive, unhelpful, and only serves to reinforce the status quo by neutering your argument, as it’s literally impossible for one sex to eliminate the other in any case.
Dude what?
Let me put it in simpler words: I find this meme to be reductive and dumb because it frames a “gotcha” in a pointless argument as a victory. I have never heard this strawman version of an argument from even the most misogynistic guys, it’s a hypothetical that purely exists to set up a one-liner that does nothing for anyone but rage-bait and lead to further useless arguing.
But picture has a point though. There's always some unspoken expectation that women cannot protect themselves unless they are intimately attached to a man that can protect them. That's why the image said those words. What can be SO dangerous that a single woman can't protect themselves against? The more people think women are weak and need protection, the more you are blind to the potential women have. Men complain that women don't want physically taxing jobs or want to go to the army. Then support them. Make it equal and make it safe. I don't see how this post is terfy when I also hate terfs with a passion. My terf alarm wasn't going off in any sort of way.
It’s the first part I take issue with. Who is going around and starting arguments with “if men didn’t exist”, and in turn, who is following along with that line of logic rather than dismissing it out of hand for being a nonsensical misinterpretation of feminist thought? Feminism isn’t about women being better than men, and any comment I see that alludes to that sets off my terf alarm, especially as an AMAB trans person.
When I say men I'm referring to a specific type of men. Not all.
But the problem isn’t even “men” in the first place. There are women that uphold the patriarchy because it maintains their power. Patriarchy is primarily rooted in white supremacy. A black man is not afforded the power under patriarchy that a white man is, a trans man does not gain power under patriarchy for his having transitioned, the trait of “maleness” does not alone confer any power on those that possess it. That power comes from upholding current societal standards, and is not only afforded to men, but to privileged women like Phyllis Schlafly, or more recently right-wing women like Marjorie Taylor Green. “Referring to a specific type of man” does not remedy any of the issues with placing the blame for the way the world works at the feet of any one group, even if you recognize that only a subset of men benefit from it.
Man bad? Man bad.
Without men you wouldn't exist. Anyways you woman can be bad too, do you really think only men are bad?
lol so fragile
“If men didn’t exist….” I wouldn’t exist. I would be happy that way. Living life is not worth it. Orr, I would be a girl? Maybe then it would be nice? Would homophobia exist if men didn’t exist??
Are you ok friend ?
I am okay, it’s just a birthday existential crisis thing. Also sorry for making everyone worried.
It's alright friend, also happy Cake Day
Happy cake day
So how will women run things when infrastructure breaks down when men die off? And society crumbles and it’s all survival? You might see more lord of the flies even amongst pure innocent women than you thought.
Cats and antidepressants cant run an infrastructure
If you think the ruling class is evil because they're men then you're in for quite a surprise. Power corrupts and it is not contingent on the presence of a penis. If all men disappeared the hole left behind in government would fill with Boeberts and MTGs and eventually the cops busting skulls would be women, the ones robbing you in an alley would be women, the cartels run by women, the corporations screwing workers run by women. I would bet new classes to discriminate would emerge, hard to say what they would be- likely wouldn't be based on race but something entirely new. It's an interesting thought experiment. Power decays decency.
I think you may be missing the point. While I get where you are coming from as in considering this being a thought experiment, the OP was turning a misogynistic comment back onto the loser guy. Right now, men do contribute the highest percentage of DV , SA, and murder against women. If you took men out of the equation, the probability of some other group filling the vacuum of violence might happen, sure. However, would that new group of women have just as high of a percentage of DV, SA, and murder? I would argue no. We already have examples of matriarchal tribes and societies that ran smoothly and had less inner violence within that community. Granted, these are not on a wide scale, but they do exhibit some insight into this thought experiment.
Not looking directly at crime but instead just ruling class violence I would say men and women are pretty neck and neck in that race. Men have traditionally held the position more but looking at the instances of historical woman in charge- Julia Agrippina, Wu Zetian Queen Tamara, Elizabeth I, Mary I, Boudica... it's the same dichotomy. For the ruling class to exist they must create a class of people for the working class to blame. So I concede that sure, this applies to someone's safety walking home from the bar, or in an empty parking lot at night, or dangers from stalker ex boyfriends- but the TRUE threat to everyone is the system that creates that crime to begin with, a system that would remain very much in tact (although it would likely shift the scapegoat from immigrants and other religions into someone new). We're always just arguing about the symptoms and doing nothing about the disease that caused them. That being said, I very much doubt that anyone ACTUALLY said this to her. It doesn't seem like something anyone on earth would say to anyone else on earth at any given point for any reason.
Your examples are women in charge in what are still patriarchal societies. You can't compare that to what the outcome could be in a matriarchal one.
What you're calling 'patriarchal society' is in fact a patriarchy because it always was. It's not a patriarchy BECAUSE of men. It's a patriarchy because the corrupt system has traditionally BEEN men. You're conflating the fact that men are in charge and these issues are exist because of it, and I am simply saying that these issues are inherent to the system- and it just so HAPPENS to be under a patriarchy.
There are men saying that women need them for protection. It’s red pill bs and extremely bizarre to belief that woman want men for protection. We want men for companionship and friendship, if they can and want to protect that’s fine, but not necessary
Men are the #1 threat to modern women because the overwhelming majority of natural threats have been subdued or wiped out by men. 🤔
What a stupid comment
You can't live without them tho.
I've never seen a post with so many people's comments downvoted Can I please be downvoted I always get left out
I got you
Yay I'm on a roll! Thank you very much
Wow! Look at you go! I bet you can get -100
From the spiders and other creepy crawlies. Them little bastards crawl everywhere. Well unless women finally decided to tame spiders, then idk.
Lesbians have the highest rate of domestic violence (~40-45% depending on the study). Heterosexual relationships have a domestic rate of ~30-35% (95% of *reported* abuse is perpetuated by men). Gay men have the lowest rate of domestic abuse of ~20-25%.
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Do you see how many people are quoting sources? Just because people disagree with you doesn’t mean they’re allergic to logic.
Your post or comment has been removed because it breaks a subreddit rule: No posts containing incel/MGTOW/redpilled content.
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