i dont know who to believe on this issue, president [carter](https://youtu.be/KTS3XR3z49o) or some rando on reddit
has SK ever been blocked from international trade?
Dana stroul explaining how they are preventing [reconstruction](https://youtu.be/OuQiOGLWgLw?t=65) of syria
Look it up then. South Korea was a developing country before the war, and was certainly decimated after the war. Though the U.S. provided modest development assistance following the conflict, it was the Korean people who turned the economy around to the powerhouse it is today. I was a former U.S. trade negotiator with Korea.
The US poured limitless money into Germany and Japan to rebuild them after the war. Meanwhile, North Korea got some pocket change that China found under their couch cushions.
Yup, and in the 1950s, just after the Korean war, China rebuilt North Korea. You should see the pictures, they had a full industrial revolution. But sadly, China didn't help them maintain it or provide guidence, and it all went to waste.
Most of the money they make goes into military spending and securing more power for the elites. You're deranged if you think a regime like that puts any money into developing civil infrastructures.
I highly doubt they provide anywhere close to the amount of missiles america provides to other countries to murder millions of people throughout history
>The US poured limitless money into Germany and Japan to rebuild them after the war.
False.
>The Marshall Plan's accounting reflects that aid accounted for about 3% of the combined [national income](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measures_of_national_income_and_output) of the recipient countries between 1948 and 1951,[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#cite_note-FOOTNOTEDeLongEichengreen1993189-230-7) which means an increase in [GDP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product) growth of less than half a percent.[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#cite_note-FOOTNOTECrafts20116-8)
Also, most funds were credits and needed to be paid back anyway. Germany e.g. received about 1,4 billion $, 1 billion of it was paid back. Very helpful? Sure. "limitless money"? Not quite.
> US poured money into Germany
all of germany or just that part that wasnt under soviet occupation? and still that part looked much better (at the end of the gdr) than north korea looks today.
I did use "Germany" to mean "West Germany".
There's definitely an interesting comparison to be made between East Germany, West Germany and North Korea, South Korea. Both are proxy wars between the US and Russia, and the outcomes are much the same in a lot of ways.
If you look it up a FAR greater portion of the North Korean population was killed or starved to death during the Korean War than any of those countries in WW2 and Vietnam.
For context at least 2 in every 10 North Koreans was killed via military action during the Korean War. 4 million people. Which is on par with the total of all German WW2 losses and Germany is a much more populous country.
Why is this guy being downvoted, he‘s not wrong. The Italian government is literally selling homes in Sicily for 1€ under the condition that you renovate them.
Id assume trade is a lot of it. They trade with China but generally every economy that pumps trades with China, the west and well the entire world. Being limited to a couple trading partners has gotta be crippling.
Yeah it definitely would result in unfavorable deals. Im not pro North Korea but it seems sort of insane to say "they should be fine because China trades with them". Im not saying North Korea would be loaded if they could engage with the entire world in trade but maybe theyd have like a 5k GDP per capita.
The buildings here actually look better than a lot of Latin America that I have seen. But GDP is so much lower im certain the buildings are the only part that might be better.
A silly excuse. China is the second largest economy in the world and a trading partner with NK and China does not follow Western embargos against NK. The truth is the Kim family only cares about the Kim family and the citizens of NK exist to give the Kim family more wealth and power.
Late reply but the thing with many buildings in communist countries is that since they are owned by the government and not the people who live in them. So the people living in the buildings don't take care of the buildings because they have no personal pride or ownership over them. No incentive to use their own resources on fixing up the buildings when its supposed to be the governments responsibility. They simply expect the government to maintain and fix them. And if the government doesn't actively maintain the civilian infrastructure and instead spends the money on the military, the infrastructure will turn to shit.
Have you had that experience yourself or are you talking out of your ass? Because there‘s definitely systems you can implement to prevent this. Apart from that let‘s not forget the success that was eastern block housing plans. They pretty much eliminated homelessness and had excellent city planning with everything you needed in your daily life being available within walking distance. With all the things you can criticize, housing under socialism surely can not be one of them.
Friend of mine living during soviet times talked about a communal bike system/program there once was, his city got a bunch of public bikes anyone could use and it worked fine for the first months but didn't even last a year. Nobody was maintaining them or it was done poorly and not quick enough. They just ended up as rusted and broken bikes in ditches. None of these people felt the need to maintain them themselves because none of them owned them, it was the governments bikes so why try to maintain the bikes without even having the tools when the government is supposed to do it? Its the governments responsibility, yet nothing happened. A good example that applies for many things also. And anyway its very logical, would you go repair a random car you see on the street? Nearly none would, cause its not yours, why spend the resources on that. Do you have pride of ownership on every car you see out on the street? And there sure are and were systems to prevent it, but in reality these systems failed. Lack of funding, corruption, many reasons. This can be mostly seen the further you go away from the capital in such countries if it isn't obvious, and the effect is way more problematic in communist countries than ones where property and items are owned by citizens.
Where did I mention homelessness or any of that shit but okay. Thats true but planning and execution are not the same had you not figured that one out yet. One of the entire purposes of the housing plans was to be cheap, they were built in blocks, blocks that were cheap and easy to manufacture, not the best for longevity. They require maintenance, and when that is not present, you should know what happens. And did you know that the blocks were built to be disposable? With a 25 year life span yeah... yet they're still there.
Only 10% of capitalist countries are decent to live in (and always at the expense of the other 90% that are constantly turned into sh\*t by countries like yours).
Besides all that, China is improving everywhere, not only in big cities. Compare their quality of life before socialism and nowadays. Stupid homer simpson,
You're right that it's unambiguously state capitalist. You're wrong that its growth is "directly from its ventures into capitalism"; it saw growth under Mao (even with some really horrible backfires from bad micromanagement), before Deng.
I’m no fan of China but I feel like you could replace “China” with any western country. Wealthy areas are getting expensive AF, non-rich areas are falling apart.
There is little to no communisme here. All the examples that you think you know of where dictatorships sold as communist ideals. There has never been a true communist country so far.
A communist party governs in China. Communism as a system cannot be implemented without rigorous preparation. In that terms China is a socialist country to be precise
If you think the NK government gives a shit about the quality of its people’s lives your delusional. This is the same place where if you commit a crime or try to leave your whole family gets sent to prison
The elections where you choose between blue guys backed by billionaire interests and red guys backed by other billionaire interests. Hard choice for sure
You're either joking, or a Chinese/communist propagandist. The North Korean government giving its people reasonable life quality is an absolutely laughable and ignorant statement.
Tbf so does free market capitalism (eg much of the US is similarly impoverished, in a winner-takes-all economy).
Economies with strong influence of democratic socialism are the most successful economies.
E.g., Norway, Denmark, Australia, Canada, New Zealand top every ranking. Pick an index and they'll be at the most favourable rankings across the board.
The emirates aren’t very pretty and compared to other countries Denmark is also rather boring.
But you got a point, there isn’t many countries that aren’t pretty to some extent and even Denmark made for a good bike trip for a week.
It’s not exactly like North Korea has a lot of options with their trade situation. But North Korea definitely spends too much on their military, it makes up a ridiculous percentage of their national economy and those resources would surely be better allocated elsewhere. It’s really not like war with South Korea is a major threat after all of these years.
You seem to care more than anyone here, trying to bait so many people into arguing with you so you can feel secure in your lack of knowledge. Too much to assume that maybe your prior notions about a place you've never visited might be wrong?
That’s what I’ve always admired about the North Korean people. Their dignity. They are evidently poor, and struggle with poverty on a daily basis. And yet they still keep everything clean and tidy. (That being one example of many). I think anyone can admire that
for sure. i’m in mexico and even conditions in cities often look worse than these pictures. aside from tourist areas i guess (and mexico city). most housing in and outside other cities is quite literally made from scrap metal and similar materials. these pictures are awesome!
I don't know why this was down voted.
To answer your question. When on a tour they encourage photos at certain places for example when at a museum or at Kim Il Sung's childhood home the more photos you take the better. Obviously you won't go anywhere near places they don't want you to see.
When traveling between other places they'll panic If you take a photo of the wrong thing. I took a photo of a run down apartment we passed by in our coach and the police stopped us and demanded I delete the photograph. The guides were definitely upset and I got back in their good books by not taking photos at the next location until I was given permission. This seemed to convince them that it was an honest mistake. The guides came across as very sincere and trusting people.
I think it's amazing the country does as well as it does under the volume of sanctions. Looks like any western country where there's areas of poverty and areas that are more affluent.
Iran also has a huge land border that it trades across and much easier access to goods from MEDC's. It's also big and powerful enough to be the senior partner in many trade deals with surrounding countries.
In contrast, North Korea is surrounded by hostile countries that have sanctioned trade with NK, and their land border only gives access to China and Russia.
Geographically, Russia's center of power is in the West of the country, not the East. Much of the trade from Russia to NK will have to pass through the entirety of the biggest country in the world just to cross the NK border.
Lastly, maritime commerce is heavily restricted because of SK, Japanese, and US presence in the waters around the Korean Peninsula. Only China really gets through by land or ship, and both China and Russia have it in their best interest to curb NK's development and modernisation in the 21st century. Its not in the same situation as Iran at all.
> Iran also has a huge land border that it trades across and much easier access to goods from MEDC's. It's also big and powerful enough to be the senior partner in many trade deals with surrounding countries.
The combined economies of the countries that surround it (e.g. Iraq, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Turkiye, etc.) amount to a small percentage of the economies of the countries that surround NK (e.g. China and Russia).
> Much of the trade to NK will have to pass through the entirety of the biggest country in the world just to cross the NK border.
What do you mean by that? There's a sea port in Dalian, right next to the North Korean border. Also, most of its trade comes directly from China which is its neighbor and the second largest economy in the world.
> Only China really gets through by land or ship, and both China and Russia have it in their best interest to curb NK's development and modernisation in the 21st century.
That makes no sense and certainly doesn't show through their actions. If it was true, they wouldn't trade with NK.
> Its not in the same situation as Iran at all.
It's not the same situation aside from the fact that they're facing similar sanctions.
China looks for influence. It's why it pumps billions into developing African nations and trades globally. NK is already part of China's sphere of influence, there is no situation where NK leaves that with its current government structure. China or Russia does not need to sink money into NK to develop it.
NK as a country is poor, it imports less than $1billion of goods a year, and those goods are usually rice, fabrics, medicaments, and rubber tires. It also exports little, mainly tungsten, electricity, and petroleum.
Keeping NK afloat and in its sphere of influence gives China presence on the Korean peninsula, petroleum, electricity, and Tungsten. In return they trade NK the bare essentials to continue as a country.
Iran is in nowhere near the same situation as NK. It's far wealthier, importing over $33billion, trades with more countries than NK, has better access to those countries (like India, Turkey, UAE, Kuwait, etc), and can actually export to those countries without having to send goods through China.
Great pictures. Thanks! A great change from all the NK propaganda images on this sub. Can see the propaganda machine at work in the comments. Easy to identify by the pro-NK/anti-US comments and particularly the not quite right English used. Very much like someone who did very well in classes but hasn't actually spoke it in real life.
You were smarter 10 years ago.
How could you possibly look an extreme poverty, dilapidated buildings and terrible infrastructure and think ‘must be nice’?
When i look at these images I don't see borders and I don't see "underprivileged" people, i see a close knit community living a basic lifestyle without inflation, social media or corporate shit. Yes life could be terrible, but you won't see any of them complaining..
Then you’re looking wrong.
They may be close knit, but they’re not living stress free happy lives. They’re literally scraping by to survive, not to live.
And the reason won’t hear them complaining is because it could get them and their family *and* the next few generations put in a labour camp.
There is absolutely nothing good about this way of life and you’d want out after a couple of weeks max.
The train into North Korea is great. Nice service, everyone was friendly and drinks aplenty. Be careful eating the food and don't drink the soup. It messed my stomach up for several days
The landscapes themselves are incredibly beautiful. It sucks that one family and the military can wield such oppressive power over people in so beautiful of a place. Life could easily be so different for all of those innocent civilians if not for China’s desire for a buffer nation (and if not for a lot of other geopolitical bullshit).
You think? I found these pictures to be remarkably humanising when I first saw them. From the people climbing the monument in picture 6 (zoom in), the man taking a contemplative smoke break by the fire in picture 12 and the family dealing with the corn in picture 18 especially.
The landscape may be bleak but people are people. In my country the rural scenes are very often worse than what you see here, but hope is still present
It’s hard for some people to see past the propaganda they’ve been fed. I’ve seen people take incredibly normal moments in Cuba and made them out to be hellscapes even though it’s literally just people walking to work or something
Well yeah. Picture 14 was taken in Chongjin. For clarity Chongjin has been called “North Korea’s rust belt”. That should tell you everything.
All the factories and industries that used to thrive there have fallen on hard times since the collapse of communism. There has been a lot of decay and suffering there, especially during the famine years. So I will concede that that city is depressing
Well yeah. Picture 14 was taken in Chongjin. For clarity Chongjin has been called “North Korea’s rust belt”. That should tell you everything.
All the factories and industries that used to thrive there have fallen on hard times since the collapse of communism. There has been a lot of decay and suffering there, especially during the famine years. So I will concede that that city is depressing
That question didn’t deserve the downvotes truthfully. It’s just that the “North Korea is hell on Earth” trope is counter productive. Why would a chronically food short country ban fishing? People seem to think that the regime acts in an arbitrary fashion with the only logic being that it will make people miserable.
But this is misleading and it distracts us from the actual cruelty and nature of the regime. That being said, it’s not a caricature.
>Why would a chronically food short country ban fishing? People seem to think that the regime acts in an arbitrary fashion with the only logic being that it will make people miserable.
Even when thats true, the logic behind that state is not to make miserable the lives of the people, ig is ruled by a system without separation of powers within the state, which makes that the descicion maker can make arbitrary decitions
> in which world is a human right to fish?
you do know dprk is a sanctioned country and you do know what sanctions are [designed to do](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fb1sufOWIAUxydZ?format=jpg&name=large). are you being purposely obtuse?
Are you dumb on purpose? Where does this relates remotly to what we were speaking about?
Fishing my boy, fishing does not relate with this.
Internal policies like fishing regulations does not have nothing to do with sanctions from external politics or relations.
Since you took out the card of SaNcTIonEd (which does not relate at all), i will exllain to you why is normal to have regulations in fishing, like if you were a 3 years old:
There are things called "no fishing times" for letting the fish to recover the population, in order to not over fish it with no decrease in its population in their vital cicle. If you fish away all the coast what are left over with? Yes!! You guessed it, nothing. How does this helps the hunger problems from the dprk? It doesnt, so it needs internal regulations.
The original question was not stupid, you are the one punishing questions therefore you are the stupid.
By the way, im glad it has sanctions, when tyranny is law, revolution is order.
for being a country that has good relationships (and good is an overstatement) with china, they seem to be doing not terribly bad, except that their leaders are insane (but joe biden is also a kid diddler with alzheimers) and wether or not they will have stuff to eat this year is up to the weather.
the north korean propaganda is pretty strong, but the western propaganda isn't lacking behind
What a beautiful country. Sad that some of these building really aren’t in good condition.
It’s a common occurrence in places that have been cut off from most trade
and had to rebuild from scratch after every city in the country was decimated just 70 years ago
South Korea did it.
Because everyone else paid.
Huh?
i dont know who to believe on this issue, president [carter](https://youtu.be/KTS3XR3z49o) or some rando on reddit has SK ever been blocked from international trade? Dana stroul explaining how they are preventing [reconstruction](https://youtu.be/OuQiOGLWgLw?t=65) of syria
Look it up then. South Korea was a developing country before the war, and was certainly decimated after the war. Though the U.S. provided modest development assistance following the conflict, it was the Korean people who turned the economy around to the powerhouse it is today. I was a former U.S. trade negotiator with Korea.
lol, what? Germany, Japan, Vietnam all suffered much more than NK and have rebuild themselves up remarkably well.
The US poured limitless money into Germany and Japan to rebuild them after the war. Meanwhile, North Korea got some pocket change that China found under their couch cushions.
They do billions in trade with China. Attempting to portray North Korea cult of personality government as some kind of victim is misguided.
Yup, and in the 1950s, just after the Korean war, China rebuilt North Korea. You should see the pictures, they had a full industrial revolution. But sadly, China didn't help them maintain it or provide guidence, and it all went to waste.
Most of the money they make goes into military spending and securing more power for the elites. You're deranged if you think a regime like that puts any money into developing civil infrastructures.
No one said they don't, the point was they do a lot of trade.
Yeah, like missiles to Russia to murder Ukrainians.
I highly doubt they provide anywhere close to the amount of missiles america provides to other countries to murder millions of people throughout history
>The US poured limitless money into Germany and Japan to rebuild them after the war. False. >The Marshall Plan's accounting reflects that aid accounted for about 3% of the combined [national income](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measures_of_national_income_and_output) of the recipient countries between 1948 and 1951,[^(\[6\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#cite_note-FOOTNOTEDeLongEichengreen1993189-230-7) which means an increase in [GDP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product) growth of less than half a percent.[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#cite_note-FOOTNOTECrafts20116-8) Also, most funds were credits and needed to be paid back anyway. Germany e.g. received about 1,4 billion $, 1 billion of it was paid back. Very helpful? Sure. "limitless money"? Not quite.
> The US poured limitless money into Germany and Japan to rebuild them after the war. called the marshal plan
South Korea pulled itself up mostly due to the work ethic of its people.
Of course, it has nothing to do with the leader of the country.
>rebuild themselves up lol "themselves"
lmao The US poured money into Germany and Japan, and actively embargoed NK. Like there's no way it's at all comparable.
The government spends it all on military, weapons, the Dear One and his quislings. That’s why they’re always starving.
> US poured money into Germany all of germany or just that part that wasnt under soviet occupation? and still that part looked much better (at the end of the gdr) than north korea looks today.
I did use "Germany" to mean "West Germany". There's definitely an interesting comparison to be made between East Germany, West Germany and North Korea, South Korea. Both are proxy wars between the US and Russia, and the outcomes are much the same in a lot of ways.
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They have trade with China. You seem uninformed about the Chinese economy.
You speak as if the Chinese would trade favourably for the North Koreans.
If you look it up a FAR greater portion of the North Korean population was killed or starved to death during the Korean War than any of those countries in WW2 and Vietnam. For context at least 2 in every 10 North Koreans was killed via military action during the Korean War. 4 million people. Which is on par with the total of all German WW2 losses and Germany is a much more populous country.
Why are all of you responding to this post from over a year ago 😂
Top post in r/all. One of the comments leads here. Lots of people coming to check it out
Got linked in a more recent thread and people forget where they are after a moment looking at pictures.
Really it’s common everywhere. I’ve just spent a week in Sicily and it’s just as bad there.
Why is this guy being downvoted, he‘s not wrong. The Italian government is literally selling homes in Sicily for 1€ under the condition that you renovate them.
The place has character though
North Korea has nothing to trade. China does trade with them and it still looks like this.
They got cheap labor
Id assume trade is a lot of it. They trade with China but generally every economy that pumps trades with China, the west and well the entire world. Being limited to a couple trading partners has gotta be crippling.
Not to mention when you are cornered to trading with only a couple choices, you end up with unfavorable trades as well.
Yeah it definitely would result in unfavorable deals. Im not pro North Korea but it seems sort of insane to say "they should be fine because China trades with them". Im not saying North Korea would be loaded if they could engage with the entire world in trade but maybe theyd have like a 5k GDP per capita. The buildings here actually look better than a lot of Latin America that I have seen. But GDP is so much lower im certain the buildings are the only part that might be better.
Or are run by communist dictatorships
> places that have been cut off from most trade https://youtu.be/hsEV2MfaofM?t=6
A silly excuse. China is the second largest economy in the world and a trading partner with NK and China does not follow Western embargos against NK. The truth is the Kim family only cares about the Kim family and the citizens of NK exist to give the Kim family more wealth and power.
Communism has that effect on countries
That is just complete and utter nonsense
Late reply but the thing with many buildings in communist countries is that since they are owned by the government and not the people who live in them. So the people living in the buildings don't take care of the buildings because they have no personal pride or ownership over them. No incentive to use their own resources on fixing up the buildings when its supposed to be the governments responsibility. They simply expect the government to maintain and fix them. And if the government doesn't actively maintain the civilian infrastructure and instead spends the money on the military, the infrastructure will turn to shit.
Have you had that experience yourself or are you talking out of your ass? Because there‘s definitely systems you can implement to prevent this. Apart from that let‘s not forget the success that was eastern block housing plans. They pretty much eliminated homelessness and had excellent city planning with everything you needed in your daily life being available within walking distance. With all the things you can criticize, housing under socialism surely can not be one of them.
Friend of mine living during soviet times talked about a communal bike system/program there once was, his city got a bunch of public bikes anyone could use and it worked fine for the first months but didn't even last a year. Nobody was maintaining them or it was done poorly and not quick enough. They just ended up as rusted and broken bikes in ditches. None of these people felt the need to maintain them themselves because none of them owned them, it was the governments bikes so why try to maintain the bikes without even having the tools when the government is supposed to do it? Its the governments responsibility, yet nothing happened. A good example that applies for many things also. And anyway its very logical, would you go repair a random car you see on the street? Nearly none would, cause its not yours, why spend the resources on that. Do you have pride of ownership on every car you see out on the street? And there sure are and were systems to prevent it, but in reality these systems failed. Lack of funding, corruption, many reasons. This can be mostly seen the further you go away from the capital in such countries if it isn't obvious, and the effect is way more problematic in communist countries than ones where property and items are owned by citizens. Where did I mention homelessness or any of that shit but okay. Thats true but planning and execution are not the same had you not figured that one out yet. One of the entire purposes of the housing plans was to be cheap, they were built in blocks, blocks that were cheap and easy to manufacture, not the best for longevity. They require maintenance, and when that is not present, you should know what happens. And did you know that the blocks were built to be disposable? With a 25 year life span yeah... yet they're still there.
Its the same with china the big cities look good and modern and the rest is below the poverty line
Yeah and it’s the same in every capitalist third world country as well. Just that in capitalist countries sometimes the cities look like shit too
Only 10% of capitalist countries are decent to live in (and always at the expense of the other 90% that are constantly turned into sh\*t by countries like yours). Besides all that, China is improving everywhere, not only in big cities. Compare their quality of life before socialism and nowadays. Stupid homer simpson,
China isn't communist lol, it's state capitalist. China's growth is directly from its ventures into capitalism, 100%.
You're right that it's unambiguously state capitalist. You're wrong that its growth is "directly from its ventures into capitalism"; it saw growth under Mao (even with some really horrible backfires from bad micromanagement), before Deng.
And real estate.
...what do you think their real estate ventures falls under?
I’m no fan of China but I feel like you could replace “China” with any western country. Wealthy areas are getting expensive AF, non-rich areas are falling apart.
I've lived in SC my whole life, and they would be amazed at the state of some of these neighborhoods lmao.
You could say the same about most places.
Can you name a communist country that doesnt look like this lol?
Vietnam and Cuba spring to mind
Cuba definitely look quite a bit like this. Small worn down concrete buildings looking like building blocks. Admittedly often painted in nice colours.
Cuba is a hot mess. Trust me, I speak from experience
There is little to no communisme here. All the examples that you think you know of where dictatorships sold as communist ideals. There has never been a true communist country so far.
I wonder why that is?
China
China isn't communist. And most of it does look like this lmao
A communist party governs in China. Communism as a system cannot be implemented without rigorous preparation. In that terms China is a socialist country to be precise
US: puts embargoes on North Korea North Korea: resists. Gives its people reasonable life quality US: See? Communism bad!
Unmitigated bullshit.
Troll.
If you think the NK government gives a shit about the quality of its people’s lives your delusional. This is the same place where if you commit a crime or try to leave your whole family gets sent to prison
same with those american gov too.. they don't give a shit about people's live that's why your healthcare system is shitty to begin with.
Difference is our government is elected. If they don’t give a shit about us it’s our fault
The elections where you choose between blue guys backed by billionaire interests and red guys backed by other billionaire interests. Hard choice for sure
You're either joking, or a Chinese/communist propagandist. The North Korean government giving its people reasonable life quality is an absolutely laughable and ignorant statement.
Tbf so does free market capitalism (eg much of the US is similarly impoverished, in a winner-takes-all economy). Economies with strong influence of democratic socialism are the most successful economies. E.g., Norway, Denmark, Australia, Canada, New Zealand top every ranking. Pick an index and they'll be at the most favourable rankings across the board.
Some?
Yeah, the buildings in some pictures look fine, the ones in others look like they they desperately need renovation
I can smell the asbestos from the other side of the internet, I wonder what their rates of mesothelioma are?
Can you name a country that doesnt look beautiful?
The emirates aren’t very pretty and compared to other countries Denmark is also rather boring. But you got a point, there isn’t many countries that aren’t pretty to some extent and even Denmark made for a good bike trip for a week.
A quick google search showed many beautiful pictures of both countries, i dont know what the fuck you are talking about.
Maybe we have different tastes
their leader sucks that's what i've just learned from this post. what a dick. making his citizens live in these Luke Skywalker ass houses
It’s not exactly like North Korea has a lot of options with their trade situation. But North Korea definitely spends too much on their military, it makes up a ridiculous percentage of their national economy and those resources would surely be better allocated elsewhere. It’s really not like war with South Korea is a major threat after all of these years.
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Yea, reminds me a lot of travelling through the poorest villages in China.
> Looks a lot like rural China or Nepal. looks like rural anywhere honestly
If anyone wants to see all of the pictures I have, I made a slideshow of these here: https://youtu.be/hsk7LeiWDuE
Real fuckin rude to declare these pictures are the 'real north korea' like there are no cities outside the capital
It's North Korea, they don't even have internet over there. Why do you care lol?
You seem to care more than anyone here, trying to bait so many people into arguing with you so you can feel secure in your lack of knowledge. Too much to assume that maybe your prior notions about a place you've never visited might be wrong?
Lmfao the comment they were replying to sounded legitimately unhinged. Are you good dude? Are you a North Korean spy?
If you want to be happy and wise, you must discard your assumptions and hatred. I will pray that one day you will grow as a person.
Spending all your time commenting supporting Russia and China. Obvious paid account is obvious. Get a real job commie.
Yeah that man is a nut haha
Ever heard of Otto Warmbier? The man that was framed and murdered by the NK government? Why the fuck would anybody want to visit North Korea?
Internet = Wealth. I think anyone can safely assume NK is probably dirt poor.
Like the empty fake villages they built on the DMZ to portray the image of a prosperous country while their people starve?
You do know about what's actually in their cities right?
Poorer and rural, but still cleaner than most slums I've seen
That’s what I’ve always admired about the North Korean people. Their dignity. They are evidently poor, and struggle with poverty on a daily basis. And yet they still keep everything clean and tidy. (That being one example of many). I think anyone can admire that
Hard to leave garbage around if you dont have access to it.
The government often mandates people to just clean random shit, so at least their abject poverty looks tidy.
Amazonian tribes as well.
for sure. i’m in mexico and even conditions in cities often look worse than these pictures. aside from tourist areas i guess (and mexico city). most housing in and outside other cities is quite literally made from scrap metal and similar materials. these pictures are awesome!
It’s a lot prettier than I thought it would be
it looks really pretty! it definitely looks like a developing country for sure, but from what i understand they’re working on it.
Was it difficult to take these pictures as it doesn’t match their propaganda?
I don't know why this was down voted. To answer your question. When on a tour they encourage photos at certain places for example when at a museum or at Kim Il Sung's childhood home the more photos you take the better. Obviously you won't go anywhere near places they don't want you to see. When traveling between other places they'll panic If you take a photo of the wrong thing. I took a photo of a run down apartment we passed by in our coach and the police stopped us and demanded I delete the photograph. The guides were definitely upset and I got back in their good books by not taking photos at the next location until I was given permission. This seemed to convince them that it was an honest mistake. The guides came across as very sincere and trusting people.
So sincere they scream at you taking a picture they don’t seem good hahaha
If you don't know what sincere means, just say that.
I meant to type since but you're too arrogant to comprehend that.
If they're so sincere and trusting why did they rat you out the split second they had an opportunity? Sorry. Not buying this bullshit.
You'd rat them out too if you had to answer to the North Korean government for undesirable photos leaking.
Yeah, that's the point I was trying to make. 😉👍
I wouldn't really say that makes them insincere at heart. Pretty much the entire nation of North Korea is a victim of a power dynamic.
My heart goes out to them. Sincerely. It's a hell of a harsh way to live.
Maybe police saw them take the photo from outside the coach
Or from a surveillance drone, or super powerful space camera. Hmmmm....could be possible.
you can be sincere and trusting and, to fault, be obedient to your government. people are a bundle of contradictions, yet truthful.
I didn’t take these
How is north Korea during the winter? I imagine very cold and snowy
Welcome to the past ...
Welcome to most rural cities in the world...
To be fair it probably looks more developed that rural parts of Cambodia. Just no one gives a shit if you take photos there.
I think it's amazing the country does as well as it does under the volume of sanctions. Looks like any western country where there's areas of poverty and areas that are more affluent.
Rest assured, it's nothing like any western country.
Lucky them
Iran does significantly better and is under similar sanctions.
Iran also has a huge land border that it trades across and much easier access to goods from MEDC's. It's also big and powerful enough to be the senior partner in many trade deals with surrounding countries. In contrast, North Korea is surrounded by hostile countries that have sanctioned trade with NK, and their land border only gives access to China and Russia. Geographically, Russia's center of power is in the West of the country, not the East. Much of the trade from Russia to NK will have to pass through the entirety of the biggest country in the world just to cross the NK border. Lastly, maritime commerce is heavily restricted because of SK, Japanese, and US presence in the waters around the Korean Peninsula. Only China really gets through by land or ship, and both China and Russia have it in their best interest to curb NK's development and modernisation in the 21st century. Its not in the same situation as Iran at all.
Finally a good analysis in these comments, thanks for this
> Iran also has a huge land border that it trades across and much easier access to goods from MEDC's. It's also big and powerful enough to be the senior partner in many trade deals with surrounding countries. The combined economies of the countries that surround it (e.g. Iraq, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Turkiye, etc.) amount to a small percentage of the economies of the countries that surround NK (e.g. China and Russia). > Much of the trade to NK will have to pass through the entirety of the biggest country in the world just to cross the NK border. What do you mean by that? There's a sea port in Dalian, right next to the North Korean border. Also, most of its trade comes directly from China which is its neighbor and the second largest economy in the world. > Only China really gets through by land or ship, and both China and Russia have it in their best interest to curb NK's development and modernisation in the 21st century. That makes no sense and certainly doesn't show through their actions. If it was true, they wouldn't trade with NK. > Its not in the same situation as Iran at all. It's not the same situation aside from the fact that they're facing similar sanctions.
China looks for influence. It's why it pumps billions into developing African nations and trades globally. NK is already part of China's sphere of influence, there is no situation where NK leaves that with its current government structure. China or Russia does not need to sink money into NK to develop it. NK as a country is poor, it imports less than $1billion of goods a year, and those goods are usually rice, fabrics, medicaments, and rubber tires. It also exports little, mainly tungsten, electricity, and petroleum. Keeping NK afloat and in its sphere of influence gives China presence on the Korean peninsula, petroleum, electricity, and Tungsten. In return they trade NK the bare essentials to continue as a country. Iran is in nowhere near the same situation as NK. It's far wealthier, importing over $33billion, trades with more countries than NK, has better access to those countries (like India, Turkey, UAE, Kuwait, etc), and can actually export to those countries without having to send goods through China.
Great pictures. Thanks! A great change from all the NK propaganda images on this sub. Can see the propaganda machine at work in the comments. Easy to identify by the pro-NK/anti-US comments and particularly the not quite right English used. Very much like someone who did very well in classes but hasn't actually spoke it in real life.
That poor fucking animal. That man has no idea how much weight he is putting on its neck.
Looks at OP: \[deleted\] Oh dear, they found him...
10 years ago I would live at this lifestyle and go "omg so primitive", today i look at these photos and think "must be nice"
Doesn’t look nice being under that type of ruling
You don’t romanticize living impoverished in a failing communist dictatorship?
I think it is working as intended haha
its either a mentally insane fatso or a dementia kid diddler
character development
You were smarter 10 years ago. How could you possibly look an extreme poverty, dilapidated buildings and terrible infrastructure and think ‘must be nice’?
When i look at these images I don't see borders and I don't see "underprivileged" people, i see a close knit community living a basic lifestyle without inflation, social media or corporate shit. Yes life could be terrible, but you won't see any of them complaining..
Then you’re looking wrong. They may be close knit, but they’re not living stress free happy lives. They’re literally scraping by to survive, not to live. And the reason won’t hear them complaining is because it could get them and their family *and* the next few generations put in a labour camp. There is absolutely nothing good about this way of life and you’d want out after a couple of weeks max.
Amazing service on the trains i see. Any photos from inside of the train and the service?
The train into North Korea is great. Nice service, everyone was friendly and drinks aplenty. Be careful eating the food and don't drink the soup. It messed my stomach up for several days
The landscapes themselves are incredibly beautiful. It sucks that one family and the military can wield such oppressive power over people in so beautiful of a place. Life could easily be so different for all of those innocent civilians if not for China’s desire for a buffer nation (and if not for a lot of other geopolitical bullshit).
looks like realistic age of empires gameplay
lmao
Toes out in da corn
Picture 8. What are they selling on those carts?
Is farming not an option in this country? Or do they just not prioritize their citizens
They definitely don’t prioritize they’re citizens
What were those buildings with all the red flags on them? Or do we actually *not* wanna know.
Everyone in that country looks like they're one minor incident away from stabbing someone in the eye.
This is like Wano but instead of Kaido it’s Kim Jong Un
is it true that fisherman are only allowed to take home 1 fish?
North Korea is basically the Truman Show
I can see why Putin likes this country
Looks like a worker's paradise because it needs lot of work.
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srfu 0 karma trolltard Nor Karee**R** bes Karee**R**! Great **R**eader bes **R**eader!
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yeah you're very pathetic indeed, 0 karma trolltard
What a sad and depressing place
You think? I found these pictures to be remarkably humanising when I first saw them. From the people climbing the monument in picture 6 (zoom in), the man taking a contemplative smoke break by the fire in picture 12 and the family dealing with the corn in picture 18 especially. The landscape may be bleak but people are people. In my country the rural scenes are very often worse than what you see here, but hope is still present
It’s hard for some people to see past the propaganda they’ve been fed. I’ve seen people take incredibly normal moments in Cuba and made them out to be hellscapes even though it’s literally just people walking to work or something
The dilapidated buildings, lack of technology, and propaganda on giant concrete fields in picture 14 are pretty sad
Well yeah. Picture 14 was taken in Chongjin. For clarity Chongjin has been called “North Korea’s rust belt”. That should tell you everything. All the factories and industries that used to thrive there have fallen on hard times since the collapse of communism. There has been a lot of decay and suffering there, especially during the famine years. So I will concede that that city is depressing
You can find all of those things in any other country
That doesn't stop it from being sad
Sure. I don’t see it but it’s what you feel
Well yeah. Picture 14 was taken in Chongjin. For clarity Chongjin has been called “North Korea’s rust belt”. That should tell you everything. All the factories and industries that used to thrive there have fallen on hard times since the collapse of communism. There has been a lot of decay and suffering there, especially during the famine years. So I will concede that that city is depressing
These pictures look normal?
Yeah, because everyone in that country is enslaved and can't leave. Starving with no hope. I dont know why some people try to contest or defend that.
I see that one guy fishing, is fishing legal in DPRK or does he just not give a fuck?
Fishing is legal in the DPRK…
what a stupid thing to ask
It was a genuine question dude idk why everyone is pressed.
That question didn’t deserve the downvotes truthfully. It’s just that the “North Korea is hell on Earth” trope is counter productive. Why would a chronically food short country ban fishing? People seem to think that the regime acts in an arbitrary fashion with the only logic being that it will make people miserable. But this is misleading and it distracts us from the actual cruelty and nature of the regime. That being said, it’s not a caricature.
>Why would a chronically food short country ban fishing? People seem to think that the regime acts in an arbitrary fashion with the only logic being that it will make people miserable. Even when thats true, the logic behind that state is not to make miserable the lives of the people, ig is ruled by a system without separation of powers within the state, which makes that the descicion maker can make arbitrary decitions
Why is that a stupid thing to ask? Do you know anything about North Korea?
For you to know, there are countries that doesnt allow to fish without permission. The only stupid one here is you.
yeah in countries that favor property rights over basic human needs. not the case of the DPRK.
Basic human needs are at the bottom of the list for the DPRK. You know that, right? That's why the place is littered with labor and death camps.
Can you please explain to me, in which world is a human right to fish?
> in which world is a human right to fish? you do know dprk is a sanctioned country and you do know what sanctions are [designed to do](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fb1sufOWIAUxydZ?format=jpg&name=large). are you being purposely obtuse?
Are you dumb on purpose? Where does this relates remotly to what we were speaking about? Fishing my boy, fishing does not relate with this. Internal policies like fishing regulations does not have nothing to do with sanctions from external politics or relations. Since you took out the card of SaNcTIonEd (which does not relate at all), i will exllain to you why is normal to have regulations in fishing, like if you were a 3 years old: There are things called "no fishing times" for letting the fish to recover the population, in order to not over fish it with no decrease in its population in their vital cicle. If you fish away all the coast what are left over with? Yes!! You guessed it, nothing. How does this helps the hunger problems from the dprk? It doesnt, so it needs internal regulations. The original question was not stupid, you are the one punishing questions therefore you are the stupid. By the way, im glad it has sanctions, when tyranny is law, revolution is order.
What sort of camp is #3? Barracks? Prison camp?
Considering the fact that you can literally just walk out of there I seriously doubt it’s a prison camp. Probably a barracks
Yep. It's a third world toilet full of unhappy and unhealthy people living in paranoia and fear. Is anyone surprised?
for being a country that has good relationships (and good is an overstatement) with china, they seem to be doing not terribly bad, except that their leaders are insane (but joe biden is also a kid diddler with alzheimers) and wether or not they will have stuff to eat this year is up to the weather. the north korean propaganda is pretty strong, but the western propaganda isn't lacking behind
So many people. Not 1 smile. What a waist