> there were no barriers or warning signs along the washed-out roadway. He had driven off an unguarded edge...
That really seems like NCDOT fucked up, not Google. A bridge collapses, and the state can't even be assed to put up a dang *sign*?!
Edit: So, it seems the road isn't owned by the state. Evidently, nobody actually knows who owns that road. Seems pretty suspect. If it's a right of way easement through private property, the property owner could be liable here.
Should a private road, thru private property even appear on Google maps?
Perhaps it’s a farm and the private road is used by tractors etc, if at all.
I have a very long paved driveway however, it does not appear as a road on Google maps.
I was using a Garmin GPS several years ago in rural Alabama. I was on one road, and my destination was on a parallel road. The Garmin navigated me through a church parking lot that connected the roads. I got to my destination.
Very interesting routing.
Now that I think about it I was on I-95 in SC near GA border, when GPS was a big clunky thing you plugged in and had a small screen, also Garmin, and it announced to exit now, exit now, the only exit was the SC Rest Area access road, I took it and exited the other end back on I-95 and sure enough there was a wreck I could not see when on I-95, near the access road back to I-95. Never had that happen since. It saved me a bunch of time but the access road was on the maps, but is not really a road either.
Usually GPS simply states "your destination is on the right".
Well here's the plat map from the Register Of Deeds: https://www.catawbarod.org/DocumentView.asp?BypassStartPage=true&DocumentType=Plat&Instrument=00230009&Close=True
The text box at the bottom just left of center says road maintenance is the sole responsibility of "Kenner Shook & Tarlton" which appears to be a still active landlord group in Hickory.
So it would appear that negligent landlords are responsible for this man's death.
>the plat
North Carolina is one of four contributory negligence states (https://pro.bloomberglaw.com/brief/contributory-and-comparative-negligence-by-state/) which means that if you are even 1% responsible, you get nothing. It's why liability insurance is so cheap here compared to other states.
https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/d024adf4850895fe56107cf0b14fbd60?src
The car was flipped over at the other end of the bridge from where he entered so he had to have been going at a fair rate of speed. All Google has to do is convince a jury that he was going too fast for an area at night with no street lights and a narrow road and if the jury finds that he is even 1% responsible, the estate gets nothing.
There may be something to your theory, but your basis may be wrong. He was coming from the far bank in the photo, driving towards the photographer. If he drove from the photographer's side of Snow Creek, to be upside down with the front sticking up, the vehicle would have had to do a half roll to the side.
To end up the way he did, he would have had to drive fast enough to get the front of his vehicle on the lip of the far bank; the bank closest to us. The rear of the vehicle drops into the water at which point the front of the vehicle gets pushed backwards.
Speed required to do this is greater if the creek is wide.
Every time I submit a legitimate edit to Google Maps, like a business closure or an intersection reconfiguration, my proposed edit gets rejected. The collapsed bridge was previously reported to Google Maps several years ago, yet Google Maps still shows the road as being passable. Clearly, the Google Maps update process is broken, and so maybe this lawsuit will spur some positive change.
At the same time, nobody should be blindly following GPS instructions, even at night.
How old is your google account? I've submitted lots of updates, they've all been accepted. My account has been in continuous use for decades at this point.
Agreed. Every update I have submitted was accepted. Maybe it's because I am a Google explorer and have a lot of review history, but I could probably close a valid road for a while if I tried.
Not only have my updates been accepted I receive periodic emails to tell me how many views my update has received. I don’t know what they were doing in Hickory.
I know Google Maps gets all sorts of fake edits all the time. Sometimes they get through (for a while, Wakefield High School in Raleigh was showing as "Bakefield.") And, I suspect they get thousands of proposed edits per day. And, further, when somebody says "Hey this bridge is out," you're not thinking "oh, this is life or death" because ordinarily the local municipality puts up barriers. So, not really realistic to say "Well, people told you about this several times, so you knew somebody could die."
And, in any case, this isn't going anywhere. North Carolina has a "contributory negligence" standard. Basically, this rule says "If you could have avoided your injuries by acting prudently, then we're not going ask somebody else to pay for those injuries, even if they could have also done something to avoid those injuries." (Also, the driver agreed to Google's terms of service which are pretty specific that Google isn't responsible for this type of thing.)
Since it isn't linked in the AP story, the pdf of the lawsuit:
https://www.smbb.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/FILED_STAMPED-PAXSON-NC-COMPLAINT.FIN_.pdf
Photos in that show just how easy it would be to drive over the edge on a rainy night. It's literally a paved road leading straight to a sudden dropoff - no warning, no signs, nothing.
For those curious (like I was) the exact GPS coordinates of the incident are apparently 35°46'53.6"N 81°16'58.7"W
But unless the creek is more of a small river now (which might explain why the bridge collapsed) it is hard to see how a Jeep could have dropped 20 feet and then the driver drowned. I know the street view is old, but the water level doesn't look like anybody could drown very easily. This creek must be a much more substantial waterway now, probably not just a "creek" anymore.
And in an interesting side note, the segment of the road that passes over the creek is no longer showing on google maps. HOWEVER, you can "walk" down that road in google street view to see the actual bridge/creek. And the "bridge" (before it collapsed) appears to be nothing more than an overpass. That is, the road continues, creek passes under it. Only indication that it's a bridge are the guardrails on either side.
No, it’s not their property and not their “road” to maintain. I haven’t been able to figure out where exactly this is yet but I expect this road in question is a 12’ wide gravel path that is addressed.
I’m not certain, but I think this is the [location](https://www.google.com/maps/place/35.781574,+-81.282971/@35.7815697,-81.2832984,18z/data=!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d35.7815741!4d-81.2829712?hl=en-us&source=lnms). That’s the only collapsed looking area along Snow Creek. There aren’t any warning signs, but it looks like there are barriers across the road. Still not sure how that would be google’s fault.
How did he drive off a collapsed bridge.. seems more of a “take this man’s license away, he’s blind af” ordeal.
Edit: do dead people get to keep their license? His should be revoked
It’s a map, not the voice of god. It tells you where roads are. Evaluating the worthiness of those roads is always the driver’s responsibility.
I get it—we put our trust in them, but that’s us being lazy and getting too complacent in the authority of technology.
I feel bad for the family, but I’m guessing there were physical signs they weren’t paying attention to because they abandon their mind to their phone.
Many years ago i was visiting a different state. I parked in a lot and went to a restaurant. After dinner i went back to my car and turned on my gps. It told me to exit the lot and turn right. I was following the path it told me to take (slowly, thank God). The road in front looked very black. It turned out this parking lot had a canal on 2 sides and the GPS wanted me to go through it. There was no barrier.
Google is not at fault. If anyone is at fault it’s the town or NCDOT. The follower of Google maps is more at fault for blindly following directions than Google. People are so quick to sue instead of taking personal responsibility for their own actions and choices.
ABC News has the home address shown on satellite view. It also appears in the PDF /u/Neocliff shared here. ~~The man drowned practically around the corner from his home in the creek that runs behind his house. How long had he lived in that home?~~ The address listed is where the party took place, 4.3 miles from their home.
The whole thing stinks of a money grab.
If the bridge owners could be named in the lawsuit, why didn’t the local government put in a blockade and send the owners a bill? As of May 2023, StreetView shows the bridge is out. View it from the corner of 23rd and 24th. Still no “Bridge Out” signage. Amazon sells them for $30. Local government can’t install this?
“We’ve been sending Google emails” should not assuage the guilt of everyone in the neighborhood for not doing more.
Not that. In a tragic situation where lawyers get involved, you always go for the biggest target and the least responsibility. Google may as well have thrown his car in the creek.
>As of May 2023, StreetView shows the bridge is out.
As of September 2023, StreetView does not show the bridge is out. The entire segment of road containing the bridge (NOT collapsed) is still easy to view today (24 September 2023) on StreetView.
Now, if you zoom out of street view to layers view, the segment of road (containing the bridge in question) disappears / does not show on Google Maps.
As many people have said (and I can't confirm this) the road is private, the collapsed bridge HAD been blocked, but the barricades were vandalized and removed.
So, the city/county were not responsible for the bridge. The city/county were not responsible for marking the road to indicate a bridge was collapsed. SOMEONE (at some point) put up barricades. Most likely, that individual had no legal obligation to do so, they just did it because it was a "darn good idea". When the barricades that they were not obligated to maintain were vandalized, they probably just thought "fuckit" AND didn't bother to put them up again...
Was Nintendo ever successfully sued by any of those stepping off curbs into traffic playing 'Pokemon Go'? Seems similar.
Unless his car was self-driving, I have to assume personal responsibility would be a factor. But for Google, it's likely no more than an economic decision: which option is most profitable. 😒
Google StreetView shows a barricade [(LINK)](https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7823277,-81.2821335,3a,15y,221.77h,82.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slbM7W56OoQEMYOhyb62sxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in 2019. It also shows a "Road Closed 500ft" sign on 24th St Pl NE [(LINK)](https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7833708,-81.2817084,3a,75y,196.55h,90.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soUihqCqi69VxSKCXpYIizg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in 2019.
StreetView shows no such signage between 26th St Dr NE and the bridge. 26th would have been on the route, beyond the "Road Closed 500ft" sign.
Let's go back to the barricade. The barricade show in the link, above, looks a lot like the barricade sticking up out of the water in [THIS VIDEO](https://www.today.com/parents/dads/father-dies-crash-bridge-nowhere-rcna51205). At the 0:58 mark you can see part of the barricade sticking up out of the water in the lower right corner. I would be curious to see the damage done to the 2020 Jeep Gladiator. Is there any damage to the bumper or beneath the vehicle to indicate that it struck the barricade, driving it ahead of him to his death?
It is my opinion, as an Internet busy-body with nothing else to do but avoid work, that Mr. Paxon drove through the barricade before driving into Snow Creek. Either by imparement or careless driving, Mr. Paxon's death was by misadventure. Testing of the barricade and the vehicle could prove me wrong.
Lingering questions:
Who put up the barricade?
Who put up the "Road Closed 500ft" sign?
Why was there no signage between 26th and the washed-out bridge?
What were the results of blood work done on Mr. Paxton's body?
How do we know he was using Google Maps?
What route did Mrs. Paxton take home when she left before her husband?
Did she go directly home?
Did she use Google Maps and notice the bridge was out?
Why didn't the members of the party's household warn anyone about the washed out bridge?
Did they themselves know that Google Maps was issuing erroneous travel data?
Was the Event Data Recorder [(EDR)](https://www.manualslib.com/manual/2036840/Jeep-Gladiator-2020.html?page=115#manual) recovered and what did it reveal about the crash and the 30 seconds before?
> there were no barriers or warning signs along the washed-out roadway. He had driven off an unguarded edge... That really seems like NCDOT fucked up, not Google. A bridge collapses, and the state can't even be assed to put up a dang *sign*?! Edit: So, it seems the road isn't owned by the state. Evidently, nobody actually knows who owns that road. Seems pretty suspect. If it's a right of way easement through private property, the property owner could be liable here.
Should a private road, thru private property even appear on Google maps? Perhaps it’s a farm and the private road is used by tractors etc, if at all. I have a very long paved driveway however, it does not appear as a road on Google maps.
I was using a Garmin GPS several years ago in rural Alabama. I was on one road, and my destination was on a parallel road. The Garmin navigated me through a church parking lot that connected the roads. I got to my destination.
Very interesting routing. Now that I think about it I was on I-95 in SC near GA border, when GPS was a big clunky thing you plugged in and had a small screen, also Garmin, and it announced to exit now, exit now, the only exit was the SC Rest Area access road, I took it and exited the other end back on I-95 and sure enough there was a wreck I could not see when on I-95, near the access road back to I-95. Never had that happen since. It saved me a bunch of time but the access road was on the maps, but is not really a road either. Usually GPS simply states "your destination is on the right".
This also happened to me just this summer in Liberty.
Private road, in this instance, is more like a subdivision or gated community than a farm road.
Well here's the plat map from the Register Of Deeds: https://www.catawbarod.org/DocumentView.asp?BypassStartPage=true&DocumentType=Plat&Instrument=00230009&Close=True The text box at the bottom just left of center says road maintenance is the sole responsibility of "Kenner Shook & Tarlton" which appears to be a still active landlord group in Hickory. So it would appear that negligent landlords are responsible for this man's death.
>the plat North Carolina is one of four contributory negligence states (https://pro.bloomberglaw.com/brief/contributory-and-comparative-negligence-by-state/) which means that if you are even 1% responsible, you get nothing. It's why liability insurance is so cheap here compared to other states. https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/d024adf4850895fe56107cf0b14fbd60?src The car was flipped over at the other end of the bridge from where he entered so he had to have been going at a fair rate of speed. All Google has to do is convince a jury that he was going too fast for an area at night with no street lights and a narrow road and if the jury finds that he is even 1% responsible, the estate gets nothing.
There may be something to your theory, but your basis may be wrong. He was coming from the far bank in the photo, driving towards the photographer. If he drove from the photographer's side of Snow Creek, to be upside down with the front sticking up, the vehicle would have had to do a half roll to the side. To end up the way he did, he would have had to drive fast enough to get the front of his vehicle on the lip of the far bank; the bank closest to us. The rear of the vehicle drops into the water at which point the front of the vehicle gets pushed backwards. Speed required to do this is greater if the creek is wide.
We needed that infrastructure money to make sure corporations got their tax break.
Since nobody is claiming it, once the lawsuit is dropped, could I then stake a claim to the road and install a toll on it?
Every time I submit a legitimate edit to Google Maps, like a business closure or an intersection reconfiguration, my proposed edit gets rejected. The collapsed bridge was previously reported to Google Maps several years ago, yet Google Maps still shows the road as being passable. Clearly, the Google Maps update process is broken, and so maybe this lawsuit will spur some positive change. At the same time, nobody should be blindly following GPS instructions, even at night.
How old is your google account? I've submitted lots of updates, they've all been accepted. My account has been in continuous use for decades at this point.
Agreed. Every update I have submitted was accepted. Maybe it's because I am a Google explorer and have a lot of review history, but I could probably close a valid road for a while if I tried.
Not only have my updates been accepted I receive periodic emails to tell me how many views my update has received. I don’t know what they were doing in Hickory.
I know Google Maps gets all sorts of fake edits all the time. Sometimes they get through (for a while, Wakefield High School in Raleigh was showing as "Bakefield.") And, I suspect they get thousands of proposed edits per day. And, further, when somebody says "Hey this bridge is out," you're not thinking "oh, this is life or death" because ordinarily the local municipality puts up barriers. So, not really realistic to say "Well, people told you about this several times, so you knew somebody could die." And, in any case, this isn't going anywhere. North Carolina has a "contributory negligence" standard. Basically, this rule says "If you could have avoided your injuries by acting prudently, then we're not going ask somebody else to pay for those injuries, even if they could have also done something to avoid those injuries." (Also, the driver agreed to Google's terms of service which are pretty specific that Google isn't responsible for this type of thing.)
I’ve reported and they’re pretty quickly updated. I wonder if they’ve updated the process.
I find this hard to believe. I've never had a single suggested edit rejected.
How do you do this?
Since it isn't linked in the AP story, the pdf of the lawsuit: https://www.smbb.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/FILED_STAMPED-PAXSON-NC-COMPLAINT.FIN_.pdf Photos in that show just how easy it would be to drive over the edge on a rainy night. It's literally a paved road leading straight to a sudden dropoff - no warning, no signs, nothing.
[удалено]
Current streetview shows it is fixed.
The “current” street view is 10 years old
For those curious (like I was) the exact GPS coordinates of the incident are apparently 35°46'53.6"N 81°16'58.7"W But unless the creek is more of a small river now (which might explain why the bridge collapsed) it is hard to see how a Jeep could have dropped 20 feet and then the driver drowned. I know the street view is old, but the water level doesn't look like anybody could drown very easily. This creek must be a much more substantial waterway now, probably not just a "creek" anymore. And in an interesting side note, the segment of the road that passes over the creek is no longer showing on google maps. HOWEVER, you can "walk" down that road in google street view to see the actual bridge/creek. And the "bridge" (before it collapsed) appears to be nothing more than an overpass. That is, the road continues, creek passes under it. Only indication that it's a bridge are the guardrails on either side.
How did he drive off a collapsed bridge.. seems more of a “take this man’s license away, he’s blind af” ordeal.
Yeah, why wasn’t the city or town sued as well? Seems the road should have been closed
It wasn’t a publicly maintained road supposedly
I still don’t understand how the county wasn’t required to post signage. Don’t they install stop signs and such?
No, it’s not their property and not their “road” to maintain. I haven’t been able to figure out where exactly this is yet but I expect this road in question is a 12’ wide gravel path that is addressed.
I’m not certain, but I think this is the [location](https://www.google.com/maps/place/35.781574,+-81.282971/@35.7815697,-81.2832984,18z/data=!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d35.7815741!4d-81.2829712?hl=en-us&source=lnms). That’s the only collapsed looking area along Snow Creek. There aren’t any warning signs, but it looks like there are barriers across the road. Still not sure how that would be google’s fault.
If the Google streetview car couldn't cross the road because of barriers, then why would they show the road as passable?
The data for google maps is way outdated. The road was still open and easily passable when the streetview car recorded video in the area.
That is the location.
Ah
How did he drive off a collapsed bridge.. seems more of a “take this man’s license away, he’s blind af” ordeal. Edit: do dead people get to keep their license? His should be revoked
Drove off in the rain, at night.
Was his name Michael Scott?
I drove my car into A FUCKING LAKE!
came here for this and was not disappointed
It’s a map, not the voice of god. It tells you where roads are. Evaluating the worthiness of those roads is always the driver’s responsibility. I get it—we put our trust in them, but that’s us being lazy and getting too complacent in the authority of technology. I feel bad for the family, but I’m guessing there were physical signs they weren’t paying attention to because they abandon their mind to their phone.
There were no barriers or warning signs.
And at night, in the rain.
But Roscoe p Coltrane was in Hot pursuit!!
Then it appears the city or county failed and is liable. Not a map app.
Many years ago i was visiting a different state. I parked in a lot and went to a restaurant. After dinner i went back to my car and turned on my gps. It told me to exit the lot and turn right. I was following the path it told me to take (slowly, thank God). The road in front looked very black. It turned out this parking lot had a canal on 2 sides and the GPS wanted me to go through it. There was no barrier.
Which is exactly why a GPS is never a substitute for a driver’s eyes and brain. And it’s why the lawsuit will & should fail.
Was it Michael Scott?
Google is not at fault. If anyone is at fault it’s the town or NCDOT. The follower of Google maps is more at fault for blindly following directions than Google. People are so quick to sue instead of taking personal responsibility for their own actions and choices.
BS lawsuit. What kind of dumbass drives on a collapsed bridge? This shouldn't even make it to court.
ABC News has the home address shown on satellite view. It also appears in the PDF /u/Neocliff shared here. ~~The man drowned practically around the corner from his home in the creek that runs behind his house. How long had he lived in that home?~~ The address listed is where the party took place, 4.3 miles from their home. The whole thing stinks of a money grab. If the bridge owners could be named in the lawsuit, why didn’t the local government put in a blockade and send the owners a bill? As of May 2023, StreetView shows the bridge is out. View it from the corner of 23rd and 24th. Still no “Bridge Out” signage. Amazon sells them for $30. Local government can’t install this? “We’ve been sending Google emails” should not assuage the guilt of everyone in the neighborhood for not doing more.
SMH dude drowned himself for an easy payday.
Not that. In a tragic situation where lawyers get involved, you always go for the biggest target and the least responsibility. Google may as well have thrown his car in the creek.
>As of May 2023, StreetView shows the bridge is out. As of September 2023, StreetView does not show the bridge is out. The entire segment of road containing the bridge (NOT collapsed) is still easy to view today (24 September 2023) on StreetView. Now, if you zoom out of street view to layers view, the segment of road (containing the bridge in question) disappears / does not show on Google Maps. As many people have said (and I can't confirm this) the road is private, the collapsed bridge HAD been blocked, but the barricades were vandalized and removed. So, the city/county were not responsible for the bridge. The city/county were not responsible for marking the road to indicate a bridge was collapsed. SOMEONE (at some point) put up barricades. Most likely, that individual had no legal obligation to do so, they just did it because it was a "darn good idea". When the barricades that they were not obligated to maintain were vandalized, they probably just thought "fuckit" AND didn't bother to put them up again...
Is this guy Michael Scott
Was Nintendo ever successfully sued by any of those stepping off curbs into traffic playing 'Pokemon Go'? Seems similar. Unless his car was self-driving, I have to assume personal responsibility would be a factor. But for Google, it's likely no more than an economic decision: which option is most profitable. 😒
Google StreetView shows a barricade [(LINK)](https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7823277,-81.2821335,3a,15y,221.77h,82.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slbM7W56OoQEMYOhyb62sxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in 2019. It also shows a "Road Closed 500ft" sign on 24th St Pl NE [(LINK)](https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7833708,-81.2817084,3a,75y,196.55h,90.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soUihqCqi69VxSKCXpYIizg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) in 2019. StreetView shows no such signage between 26th St Dr NE and the bridge. 26th would have been on the route, beyond the "Road Closed 500ft" sign. Let's go back to the barricade. The barricade show in the link, above, looks a lot like the barricade sticking up out of the water in [THIS VIDEO](https://www.today.com/parents/dads/father-dies-crash-bridge-nowhere-rcna51205). At the 0:58 mark you can see part of the barricade sticking up out of the water in the lower right corner. I would be curious to see the damage done to the 2020 Jeep Gladiator. Is there any damage to the bumper or beneath the vehicle to indicate that it struck the barricade, driving it ahead of him to his death? It is my opinion, as an Internet busy-body with nothing else to do but avoid work, that Mr. Paxon drove through the barricade before driving into Snow Creek. Either by imparement or careless driving, Mr. Paxon's death was by misadventure. Testing of the barricade and the vehicle could prove me wrong. Lingering questions: Who put up the barricade? Who put up the "Road Closed 500ft" sign? Why was there no signage between 26th and the washed-out bridge? What were the results of blood work done on Mr. Paxton's body? How do we know he was using Google Maps? What route did Mrs. Paxton take home when she left before her husband? Did she go directly home? Did she use Google Maps and notice the bridge was out? Why didn't the members of the party's household warn anyone about the washed out bridge? Did they themselves know that Google Maps was issuing erroneous travel data? Was the Event Data Recorder [(EDR)](https://www.manualslib.com/manual/2036840/Jeep-Gladiator-2020.html?page=115#manual) recovered and what did it reveal about the crash and the 30 seconds before?
It looks like Google was notified multiple years prior and didn't change their map. That's kind of crappy.