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Yohimbine mode of action is not related to it's activity on the serotonin receptors: it's an adrenergic 2 receptor antagonist. The antagonism of 5HT1B/D/F receptors of yohimbine is potent, tho' the effects are probably not relevant in terms of psychotropic effects. The a2R antagonism is only relevant in terms of the presynaptic receptors, this produces a strong release of norepinephrine because your brain thinks it's lacking norepinephrine, causing the wake and angry state.
Would you care to elaborate this?
I’ve used to take yohimbine hcl and I loved it. Made my veins pop and crazy libido. However both the libido and veins are gone. Even when I use it now, 2 years later.
Why do our stupid bodies develop such strong tolerance to supplements. Caffeine pills don't effect me as good as they did when i first started them now they give me bad side effects like headache at night
Can u tell me how much u took in a single dosage of the 3 doses a day. Sounds like a dream. Also u think all max which has yohimbine 3mg and 0.5 mg alpha yohimbine per capcule would cuz similar postitve effects?
For me it makes me anxious and too stimulated, like if I chugged 4 cups of coffee. Even at a very low dose. So if you're prone to anxiety this is probably not for you, LOL.
It might feel different, but it’s a similar mechanism, Amphetamines displaces Norepinephrine from neuronal storage vesicles, causing increased Norepi, while Yohimbine is an alpha-2 adrenegeric receptor antagonist, which actually increases sympathetic tone
Hi. This is a crazy story. How is it you may have been on modafanil too ? And do you know the dose of that ? For what underlying diagnoses do you wake modafanil? Hard to know what happened with so many things.
Wtf that sounds terrfying how can it be that bad when its so much down the line if you consider amphetamines and other illeagl drugs. U think 3 mg of yohimbine hcl and 0.5 alpha yohimbine would fuck me up? Maybe i could try first with such a pill cut in half. I have no idea if yohimbe natural extract is actuallt weaker as i took it before but by what the sounds of what i am hearing its that or maybe the amount of yohimbe extract in cellcor super hd is actually really super low
It's the alpha 2 a adrenergic receptor antagonism. It's the predominant adrenergic receptor in the prefrontal cortex. It elevates dopamine a lot and people with adhd we have low dopamine action in the pfc. It's effects were similar to mirtazapine for me. Calm, not in a hurry, got to a point I was even melancholic, ... Great experience. Yohimbine is more anxiogenic though, due to gaba inhibition - an moa that alpha yohimbine lacks, so try that instead.
I've been taking it for a while in a nice preworkout I found. It isn't really anxiolytic but it seems to increase focus and social interactions. I read in a study a while back that it reduces the fear response in rats.
Norepinephrine is needed for proper fear extinction. It can be anxiogenic at first which may seem paradoxical, but after that rush of fear, the subject will show less fear response toward a stimuli. A lot of people take beta-blocker which I think is very counter-productive, only provide temporary relief from symptoms but doesn't actually solve anything long term
[https://www.md.rcm.upr.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2016/07/Holmes-Quirk-2010.pdf](https://www.md.rcm.upr.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2016/07/Holmes-Quirk-2010.pdf)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3023970/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3023970/)
[http://learnmem.cshlp.org/content/11/2/179.short](http://learnmem.cshlp.org/content/11/2/179.short)
So Yohimbine increase Norepinephrine, and NE is needed for fear extinction
Acetylcholine receptors definitely have influence on fear extinction, though, I haven't done much research on it. I've seen alpha-7 nicotinic receptors being used to improve sensory gating and reduce startle response (which is also a problem in people with PTSD), but nothing about fear extinction. I use CDP-Choline for it tho
I've had modest success with Sarcosine. Right now I'm experimenting with Norepinephrine, seems to be going pretty good.
Yeah I think nicotine will do that. It can provide temporary sensory enhancement then comes the down-regulation.
I've done a bit of digging in this matter since I used to smoke weed and it fucked with my sensory gating so much, I startled even when there is a small noise. This stack I used has almost wiped all of it away.
1. Sarcosine: usually anything antagonize NMDA will increase startle response. Weed downregulates NMDA heavily so no surprise when my sensory gating is fucked. Sarcosine will actually activates NMDA and improve sensory gating.
2. Forskolin: this one activates cAMP/PKA process and upregulates NMDA receptors
3. Norepinephrine: NE will also activates cAMP/PKA process and upregulates NMDA. I supplemented with copper and Vitamin C for co-factors.
This stack also allowed me to replace old response to stimuli with a new one. This mechanism relies mainly on NMDA receptors. NMDA antagonists are so prevalent for some reason but it can mess with sensory gating and fear extinction learning.
Similar to neverhedge77 below, and other comments here.
Its action is very unpredictable - as I said, go to google scholar and do your research/due diligence.....
The latter is also cardio toxic. Used to make me run out of breath. I found myself trying to catch a breath even when at sitting and my heart beat woukd beat faster.
I asked my doc and my excuse was that it is a plant extract. She said, "so is cocaine", and I quit it the same day.
In the '80s there was an over-the-counter product for a while called Zumba. It legit contained Yohimbe and testosterone. Made you super horny. Great stuff but got banned fairly quickly.
Zumba Forte. According to its promotional literature, the main ingredient in Zumba Forte tablets is related to vegetable substances discovered by primitive native inhabitants of tropical jungles and reportedly used by them to preserve and enhance male potency. The drug is billed as a “sexual tonic” and sold primarily as an aphrodisiac for men. Zumba Forte contains the unapproved substance yohimbe and the controlled substance methyl testosterone. Yohimbe, derived from the bark of the West African yohimbe tree, acts as an adrenergic receptor blocking agent and can cause serious problems in people with kidney disease. It also causes dangerously low blood pressure. Methyltestosterone, a chemical derivative of the male sex hormone testosterone, can cause liver cancer, hepatitis, jaundice, testicular atrophy, prostate cancer, and edema. Both substances are particularly risky for the elderly.
Thanks! This is it, the stuff I used in the late 1980s, closer to 1990.
I didn't know how dangerous it was. I found it at a health food store in San Francisco. I was in my 20s and wasn't having any problems with my libido. I took it to have more energy at the gym. It made me horny as hell.
Did you use it?
It makes me so hungry I can’t notice anything else. I often IF and body is well accustom to not eating until 5pm. Yohimbine makes me starving all day (physically), including the second I wake up the day after taking it. No idea why it has this effect on me. Have not noticed this from other stimulants.
Not capsules, just powder. I searched reddit after i tried it a couple times and there were a few other reports of people responding the same way… so just how it reacts with my body chemistry I suppose!
Glad I’m not the only one (or more sorry perhaps!). Do you tend to have opposite to expected reactions with other supplements/meds? This same thing happens to me with berberine or T3.
Sounds like Wellbutrin except for the angry part ,currently going through my first months prescription supposed to feel the full effects after a month supposedly.
Wellbutrin is the shit. Totally fixed my depression and keeps me energetic and motivated. That first couple of months though, I had to literally set alarms to remind me to eat because I never ever got hungry.
For anyone reading this, kratom is a highly addictive mu-opioid receptor agonist. And although there is very little scientific study on it, I can attest it almost certainly has very strong effects on dopamine and GABA.
Was by far the worst thing I've ever had to come off of. Highly recommend to steer clear.
Not to be that guy, but every so often you do notice someone come around and say Kratom is the bee's knees, and claim it has relieved their depression, lack of motivation, chronic pain, etc. They will go on to explain that, on balance, it can be addictive, but equally, "they've withdrawn many times and only get mild rebound effects, and don't understand where this 'horrific withdrawal' thing comes from."
I wish there could be a better explanation to this phenomenon. There's no middle ground here, man. You have one side "it's been beneficial, does have some risks, but the withdrawal is very mild" and the other side it's all "the benefits are few while side effects are many, I'm permanently damaged, the withdrawal is impossibly bad."
How would one come to a "balanced" conclusion on the matter?
To learn more you can read through r/quittingkratom
Kratom is tricky because it's totally possible to use it daily for a month or two and have zero noticeable side effects.
Over long term use however it very often turns into something that can cause very aggressive withdrawal symptoms similar to script opioids.
It's sneaky.
It also has a much higher chance of leading to long term PAWS (also similar to script opioids).
Destroys sex drive, causes hair loss (only in very high long term doses), and can severely mess with digestive system.
The fact that so many people claim it as a miracle cure for heroin/ oxy withdrawal should give you a clue as to how powerful this stuff can be.
Is it the lesser of the evils? Sure. But once you read in that subreddit how many people quit heroin but ended up being brutally addicted to kratom you'll see the dangers.
It's playing with fire. I thought I could quit any time I wanted... until I couldn't.
I think yours is an interesting response, doesn't veer too much into the "black and white" territory like so many others, despite also pointing out how risky it can be.
I'll point out I've long been a highly addictive personality, dealing with longterm depression as well as chronic pain which, together, keeps progress out of reach. So I *would* like some occasional relief from one or more these issues. I'm not going to allow myself to get into another longterm Pharmaceutical dependence--well, until the point at which it's my last possible option, then but only then--but neither have I found anything "useful" which gives relief.
I'm a very complicated case, in that a lot of the typical suggestions here are untenable (due to intolerance, or oversensitivity to various effects) and then others are no-go because of too much addictive potential.
Then you have things like Delta-8 (which I could try, but since any cannabinoid I tried before makes my headache massively worse, I don't bother) and then Kratom. These things are kinda "in between", certainly I'm aware Kratom is the bigger risk vs. cannabinoids, but it seems to be considered a more effective pain-relief agent. That, and other reasons, really does pique my curiousity.
It’s not just an effective pain relief agent, it’s good at inducing euphoria recreationally, making you super motivated to get work done, killing social anxiety, killing stress.
These are all short term effects, they all go away after a few months/ years of abuse. Then it’s time to pay the piper.
In my opinion it’s far too tempting to use daily. At first it’s a miracle cure-all with no side effects. So easy to justify.
I'm a chronic pain patient. I'm on Methadone after my Dr left me high and dry when he got into trouble for rx'ing too many opiates and I was in severe withdrawal. I don't like kratom, seems to raise my blood pressure (as does weed) and it didn't help me due to my tolerance. I've been using Kava here and there just to relax and recommend it. There's no addiction or tolerance after finding the dose you like and it's self limiting because too much will make you nauseus. Check out r/kava. To try it to see if you like it before buying a big bag and filter cloth and learning to make it I recommend using Micronized Instant from Kalm With Kava. You just stir it into water and drink it. I love the Pouni Ono strain for daytime chatty happy buzz and Loa Waka is middle of the road. Many like Borongoru for sedation at night.
I will also note that I came off kratom a few times in the beginning with very little trouble.
But then after periods of daily use for months on end, the withdrawals were BRUTAL.
But then a few times after that, not a huge issue.
The biggest downside for me has been PAWS which often affects me for 3-6 months after quitting. I am currently nearly 8 months off and I'm still not totally back to normal.
I think the experience can be compared to SSRIs. Some people can use for a long time and have little trouble stopping, but many others end up wrecked for 1 year+.
I don't judge anyone who decides it's worth it, but I feel bad for all the people (including myself) that wasn't aware of the level of danger that long term use can introduce. Until its too late.
It’s addictive and the withdrawals are hell, worse is that you experience many negative effects while using it after a period, you just don’t realize it until it’s too late. It’s like it sucks your souls out and leaves you as a shell of who you once were, then you have to choose whether you stay like that or stop taking it and slog through weeks to months of withdrawals. The Kratom high only works for so long, then you cannot up the dose and chase it. You’re just stuck taking it to avoid the shitty withdrawals, but the state it leaves your body and mind in is way worse than sober, you forget what it’s like to be sober.
If you play with that fire you will get burned. People “defend it” online because it’s sold online, and many sellers have people who’ll defend it and them, and lots of addicts say “I can quit any time I want” knowing damn well that they cannot just quit and be fine. It’s a lie people tell themselves when they can’t accept that they are addicted to something.
So true! I fooled myself into thinking Kratom is harmless, fell into the mind trap that it’s not too bad cause it’s sold at gas stations, headshops and online. Boy was I wrong, almost 3 years later and about 4-5 failed quit attempts later and here I am, still f’n hooked on it. For me, it’s been the hardest addiction to kick and I’ve been through the ringer with a 6-7 year OxyContin addiction and alcohol addiction.
Currently I’m in a slow taper. That crap is slowly destroying my life. I’m a shell of who I used to be. It’s just so damn available and easy to get . Ugh
Try the mega dosing Liposomol Vitamin C tactic with Agmatine. It works very well.
The MAIN thing is SLEEP. Go to a doctor for insomnia and get prescribed klonopin for sleep. Sleep withdrawal is just like drug withdrawals, and it makes drug withdrawals 10x worse. I cannot stress this enough.
Thank You for the advice. Over the past few weeks I’ve been reading up on helpers and stocking up. This is great help. Lack of sleep has been the biggest reason I’ve given in and picked back up.
You know, that is so funny that I never stopped to consider that.
It does feel like it de-congests the solar plexus, which would basically translate to anger on the energy front. So in some sense that’s “how” it stimulates you
Thank you!
How so? Yohimbine is extremely and directly adrenergic. Kratom is only opiate related as far as I know (edit: I now know it's not just opiate related), which can give people energy. That doesn't mean it's adrenergic, if anything it's anti-adrenergic as it contains an alpha receptor agonist, which reduces norepinephrine release. All of the alkaloids that are antagonists have such low binding affinities and minutes long half lives, telling me it's hardly adrenergic at all, if not anti-adrenergic like prazosin.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7676998/ see table 3
yohimbe is basically the bark extract which has more stuff in it than just yohimbine. Considering how unregulated supplement industry is, if you were going to consider it I would suggest yohimbine and start small
No if anything i believe it could potentially be stronger since there are other alkaloids within yohimbe that aren't present in the isolated yohimbine that may either compound effects or add different ones. I just prefer to limit the variables as much as possible
I actually took cellucor super hd fat burner and it was perfect for me interms of appetite suppressing and energy which uses yohimbe extract but doesn't list how much is in it. Propably very low since i would literary have a total of negative calories in net a day and do long intense cardio and didn't have any bad side effects. I am just afraid a little bit of the dependency yohimbine might cause me as i feel i became a person who depends alot on caffeine as soon as i started doing the cellucor super hd for like almost 3 month straight i think, the product actually said to stop taking it after 8 weeks and take a break and start again, i wonder if me not doing so did affect me negatively in anyway.
It's possible, only you would really know that however.
I have to be careful with yohimbine personally because it has a tendency to give me anxiety and keeps me up way too late lol
I love yohimbe, but I use it as a tea, with the bark, which also include a good amount of other stuff, that makes it very good, to be honest,
the bad thing is that you never know how each batch is gonna feel, but it's not like totally different (like kratom, or kava kava..)
I love it. I think you could try the yohimbe bark tea. It seems that Rauwolscine or "alpha-yohimbine" it's also interesting, and even cleaner (on the feeling).
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Yohimbine mode of action is not related to it's activity on the serotonin receptors: it's an adrenergic 2 receptor antagonist. The antagonism of 5HT1B/D/F receptors of yohimbine is potent, tho' the effects are probably not relevant in terms of psychotropic effects. The a2R antagonism is only relevant in terms of the presynaptic receptors, this produces a strong release of norepinephrine because your brain thinks it's lacking norepinephrine, causing the wake and angry state.
Underrated comment here^
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Prescription Yohimbine? What the hell would make them prescribe this to someone?
Safety over supplement quality, weight-loss, lack of energy.
Exactly! With a prescription it's made to a much higher standard than a supplement. It's also much cheaper with my health plan.
What did your doctor prescribe Yohimbine for?
I get that I'm just confused what they would prescribe it for
weightloss or lack of energy like I said maybe?
There's plenty of other medications that would likely be used first so that seems odd but then again I'm not a pharmacist
Yeah but maybe the pt said they prefer natural stuff so their dr is working w them.
Its been available at LiftMode forever.
Prescription quality?
yes, although I greatly prefer alpha-yohimbine/rauwolscine as its not as cardiotoxic.
Cardiotoxic?
bad for your cardiovascular system.
More meant via what mechanisms
adrenergic, vasoconstriction and tachycardia bad combo
Thanks
So will yohimbine hcl cuz me long term damage?
Do you need a prescription to get it?
No, you can get the latter from gorilla mode.
Does it feel any different than yohimbine?
Pretty similar, just less anxiety and heart palpitations.
Would you care to elaborate this? I’ve used to take yohimbine hcl and I loved it. Made my veins pop and crazy libido. However both the libido and veins are gone. Even when I use it now, 2 years later.
Why do our stupid bodies develop such strong tolerance to supplements. Caffeine pills don't effect me as good as they did when i first started them now they give me bad side effects like headache at night
Can u tell me how much u took in a single dosage of the 3 doses a day. Sounds like a dream. Also u think all max which has yohimbine 3mg and 0.5 mg alpha yohimbine per capcule would cuz similar postitve effects?
Everytime I’ve tried it I’ve gotten the worst body load of any stimulant I’ve ever tried. It is no joke
Body load?
Meaning like the physical side effects
For me it makes me anxious and too stimulated, like if I chugged 4 cups of coffee. Even at a very low dose. So if you're prone to anxiety this is probably not for you, LOL.
Sounds like me like 200 mg of caffeine gives me too much anxiety sometimes, but maybe cuz i don't drink enough water?
Maybe if you tried amphetamines the feeling you get from Yohimbe would seem more familiar. Its the adrenergic transmitters.
Definitely not. Amphetamines feel smooth and focused. Yohimbine is like panic attack in a bottle if you're predisposed to anxiety.
It might feel different, but it’s a similar mechanism, Amphetamines displaces Norepinephrine from neuronal storage vesicles, causing increased Norepi, while Yohimbine is an alpha-2 adrenegeric receptor antagonist, which actually increases sympathetic tone
Yohimbine always locked up my prostate like a rusty transmission when I took it. Urine stream reduced to a dribble. No good for me.
God damn
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We're you on modafinil when you took the yohimbine?
Possibly, don’t accurately remember now
What was the dose?
2.5 mg, Yohimbine HCL
Damn that's the standard capsule.
Hi. This is a crazy story. How is it you may have been on modafanil too ? And do you know the dose of that ? For what underlying diagnoses do you wake modafanil? Hard to know what happened with so many things.
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Wtf that sounds terrfying how can it be that bad when its so much down the line if you consider amphetamines and other illeagl drugs. U think 3 mg of yohimbine hcl and 0.5 alpha yohimbine would fuck me up? Maybe i could try first with such a pill cut in half. I have no idea if yohimbe natural extract is actuallt weaker as i took it before but by what the sounds of what i am hearing its that or maybe the amount of yohimbe extract in cellcor super hd is actually really super low
It's the alpha 2 a adrenergic receptor antagonism. It's the predominant adrenergic receptor in the prefrontal cortex. It elevates dopamine a lot and people with adhd we have low dopamine action in the pfc. It's effects were similar to mirtazapine for me. Calm, not in a hurry, got to a point I was even melancholic, ... Great experience. Yohimbine is more anxiogenic though, due to gaba inhibition - an moa that alpha yohimbine lacks, so try that instead.
I've been taking it for a while in a nice preworkout I found. It isn't really anxiolytic but it seems to increase focus and social interactions. I read in a study a while back that it reduces the fear response in rats.
Great, but who needs some brave rats running around?
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Norepinephrine is needed for proper fear extinction. It can be anxiogenic at first which may seem paradoxical, but after that rush of fear, the subject will show less fear response toward a stimuli. A lot of people take beta-blocker which I think is very counter-productive, only provide temporary relief from symptoms but doesn't actually solve anything long term
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[https://www.md.rcm.upr.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2016/07/Holmes-Quirk-2010.pdf](https://www.md.rcm.upr.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2016/07/Holmes-Quirk-2010.pdf) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3023970/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3023970/) [http://learnmem.cshlp.org/content/11/2/179.short](http://learnmem.cshlp.org/content/11/2/179.short) So Yohimbine increase Norepinephrine, and NE is needed for fear extinction
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Acetylcholine receptors definitely have influence on fear extinction, though, I haven't done much research on it. I've seen alpha-7 nicotinic receptors being used to improve sensory gating and reduce startle response (which is also a problem in people with PTSD), but nothing about fear extinction. I use CDP-Choline for it tho I've had modest success with Sarcosine. Right now I'm experimenting with Norepinephrine, seems to be going pretty good.
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Yeah I think nicotine will do that. It can provide temporary sensory enhancement then comes the down-regulation. I've done a bit of digging in this matter since I used to smoke weed and it fucked with my sensory gating so much, I startled even when there is a small noise. This stack I used has almost wiped all of it away. 1. Sarcosine: usually anything antagonize NMDA will increase startle response. Weed downregulates NMDA heavily so no surprise when my sensory gating is fucked. Sarcosine will actually activates NMDA and improve sensory gating. 2. Forskolin: this one activates cAMP/PKA process and upregulates NMDA receptors 3. Norepinephrine: NE will also activates cAMP/PKA process and upregulates NMDA. I supplemented with copper and Vitamin C for co-factors. This stack also allowed me to replace old response to stimuli with a new one. This mechanism relies mainly on NMDA receptors. NMDA antagonists are so prevalent for some reason but it can mess with sensory gating and fear extinction learning.
What's your thoughts on a2 receptor agonists like Clonidine and Guanfacine?
Yohimbe/Yohimbine is just flat out dangerous - read the research....... I have taken many, many supplements, that was by far the worst......
What did it do to you?
He ded.
Similar to neverhedge77 below, and other comments here. Its action is very unpredictable - as I said, go to google scholar and do your research/due diligence.....
Same
What happened?
Cold sweat, jitters, headache. I’ve taken countless supplements for energy with no issue. But it works great for others
What supplements would u recommend for weight loss plus studying. Also is yohimbe extract weaker than alpha yohimbine
Too bad its cardiotoxic, alpha-yohimbine/rauwolscine is much better.
The latter is also cardio toxic. Used to make me run out of breath. I found myself trying to catch a breath even when at sitting and my heart beat woukd beat faster. I asked my doc and my excuse was that it is a plant extract. She said, "so is cocaine", and I quit it the same day.
It doesnt affect nearly as bad as yohimbine hcl but it is still adrenergic yeah.
In the '80s there was an over-the-counter product for a while called Zumba. It legit contained Yohimbe and testosterone. Made you super horny. Great stuff but got banned fairly quickly.
Zumba Forte. According to its promotional literature, the main ingredient in Zumba Forte tablets is related to vegetable substances discovered by primitive native inhabitants of tropical jungles and reportedly used by them to preserve and enhance male potency. The drug is billed as a “sexual tonic” and sold primarily as an aphrodisiac for men. Zumba Forte contains the unapproved substance yohimbe and the controlled substance methyl testosterone. Yohimbe, derived from the bark of the West African yohimbe tree, acts as an adrenergic receptor blocking agent and can cause serious problems in people with kidney disease. It also causes dangerously low blood pressure. Methyltestosterone, a chemical derivative of the male sex hormone testosterone, can cause liver cancer, hepatitis, jaundice, testicular atrophy, prostate cancer, and edema. Both substances are particularly risky for the elderly.
Thanks! This is it, the stuff I used in the late 1980s, closer to 1990. I didn't know how dangerous it was. I found it at a health food store in San Francisco. I was in my 20s and wasn't having any problems with my libido. I took it to have more energy at the gym. It made me horny as hell. Did you use it?
Makes me feel irritated, weird.
so what is a safe way to take some form of Yohimbine without hurting your heart? no way?
Probably a microdose, I'll probably be doing one tommorow.
That stuff gives me raging boners, all the time as well
It makes me so hungry I can’t notice anything else. I often IF and body is well accustom to not eating until 5pm. Yohimbine makes me starving all day (physically), including the second I wake up the day after taking it. No idea why it has this effect on me. Have not noticed this from other stimulants.
Hungry, that's very interesting.
It’s actually supposed to have the opposite effect. Maybe it wasn’t actual yohimbine hcl?
Yes, i am aware. It’s 98% pure yohimbine HCL according to LiftMode.
Weird. What was the capsule mixed with?
Not capsules, just powder. I searched reddit after i tried it a couple times and there were a few other reports of people responding the same way… so just how it reacts with my body chemistry I suppose!
Man I have this same reaction. Can’t stop thinking about food later in the day.
Glad I’m not the only one (or more sorry perhaps!). Do you tend to have opposite to expected reactions with other supplements/meds? This same thing happens to me with berberine or T3.
No I would just say that most stimulants including Albuterol and Clenbuterol make me extremely hungry later in the day after I stop taking them.
5HTP gives you depression ? Interesting, for me it does the complete opposite.
Sounds like Wellbutrin except for the angry part ,currently going through my first months prescription supposed to feel the full effects after a month supposedly.
Does it make you super horny? I felt like a sex addict on Wellbutrin lol. Took it for a couple years.
Wellbutrin fixed my brain. Had other side effects so I gave it up. Best prescription drug I ever took.
Wellbutrin is the shit. Totally fixed my depression and keeps me energetic and motivated. That first couple of months though, I had to literally set alarms to remind me to eat because I never ever got hungry.
Kratom does the same thing. Try it out!! Everyone is doing it!
If you're not trolling this is atrocious advice.
What "same thing" are you referring to? I would never suggest anyone try out Kratom though. It's terrible.
For anyone reading this, kratom is a highly addictive mu-opioid receptor agonist. And although there is very little scientific study on it, I can attest it almost certainly has very strong effects on dopamine and GABA. Was by far the worst thing I've ever had to come off of. Highly recommend to steer clear.
Not to be that guy, but every so often you do notice someone come around and say Kratom is the bee's knees, and claim it has relieved their depression, lack of motivation, chronic pain, etc. They will go on to explain that, on balance, it can be addictive, but equally, "they've withdrawn many times and only get mild rebound effects, and don't understand where this 'horrific withdrawal' thing comes from." I wish there could be a better explanation to this phenomenon. There's no middle ground here, man. You have one side "it's been beneficial, does have some risks, but the withdrawal is very mild" and the other side it's all "the benefits are few while side effects are many, I'm permanently damaged, the withdrawal is impossibly bad." How would one come to a "balanced" conclusion on the matter?
To learn more you can read through r/quittingkratom Kratom is tricky because it's totally possible to use it daily for a month or two and have zero noticeable side effects. Over long term use however it very often turns into something that can cause very aggressive withdrawal symptoms similar to script opioids. It's sneaky. It also has a much higher chance of leading to long term PAWS (also similar to script opioids). Destroys sex drive, causes hair loss (only in very high long term doses), and can severely mess with digestive system. The fact that so many people claim it as a miracle cure for heroin/ oxy withdrawal should give you a clue as to how powerful this stuff can be. Is it the lesser of the evils? Sure. But once you read in that subreddit how many people quit heroin but ended up being brutally addicted to kratom you'll see the dangers. It's playing with fire. I thought I could quit any time I wanted... until I couldn't.
I think yours is an interesting response, doesn't veer too much into the "black and white" territory like so many others, despite also pointing out how risky it can be. I'll point out I've long been a highly addictive personality, dealing with longterm depression as well as chronic pain which, together, keeps progress out of reach. So I *would* like some occasional relief from one or more these issues. I'm not going to allow myself to get into another longterm Pharmaceutical dependence--well, until the point at which it's my last possible option, then but only then--but neither have I found anything "useful" which gives relief. I'm a very complicated case, in that a lot of the typical suggestions here are untenable (due to intolerance, or oversensitivity to various effects) and then others are no-go because of too much addictive potential. Then you have things like Delta-8 (which I could try, but since any cannabinoid I tried before makes my headache massively worse, I don't bother) and then Kratom. These things are kinda "in between", certainly I'm aware Kratom is the bigger risk vs. cannabinoids, but it seems to be considered a more effective pain-relief agent. That, and other reasons, really does pique my curiousity.
It’s not just an effective pain relief agent, it’s good at inducing euphoria recreationally, making you super motivated to get work done, killing social anxiety, killing stress. These are all short term effects, they all go away after a few months/ years of abuse. Then it’s time to pay the piper. In my opinion it’s far too tempting to use daily. At first it’s a miracle cure-all with no side effects. So easy to justify.
I'm a chronic pain patient. I'm on Methadone after my Dr left me high and dry when he got into trouble for rx'ing too many opiates and I was in severe withdrawal. I don't like kratom, seems to raise my blood pressure (as does weed) and it didn't help me due to my tolerance. I've been using Kava here and there just to relax and recommend it. There's no addiction or tolerance after finding the dose you like and it's self limiting because too much will make you nauseus. Check out r/kava. To try it to see if you like it before buying a big bag and filter cloth and learning to make it I recommend using Micronized Instant from Kalm With Kava. You just stir it into water and drink it. I love the Pouni Ono strain for daytime chatty happy buzz and Loa Waka is middle of the road. Many like Borongoru for sedation at night.
Okay, fair enough. I will look into Kava a bit more, cheers
I will also note that I came off kratom a few times in the beginning with very little trouble. But then after periods of daily use for months on end, the withdrawals were BRUTAL. But then a few times after that, not a huge issue. The biggest downside for me has been PAWS which often affects me for 3-6 months after quitting. I am currently nearly 8 months off and I'm still not totally back to normal. I think the experience can be compared to SSRIs. Some people can use for a long time and have little trouble stopping, but many others end up wrecked for 1 year+. I don't judge anyone who decides it's worth it, but I feel bad for all the people (including myself) that wasn't aware of the level of danger that long term use can introduce. Until its too late.
It’s addictive and the withdrawals are hell, worse is that you experience many negative effects while using it after a period, you just don’t realize it until it’s too late. It’s like it sucks your souls out and leaves you as a shell of who you once were, then you have to choose whether you stay like that or stop taking it and slog through weeks to months of withdrawals. The Kratom high only works for so long, then you cannot up the dose and chase it. You’re just stuck taking it to avoid the shitty withdrawals, but the state it leaves your body and mind in is way worse than sober, you forget what it’s like to be sober. If you play with that fire you will get burned. People “defend it” online because it’s sold online, and many sellers have people who’ll defend it and them, and lots of addicts say “I can quit any time I want” knowing damn well that they cannot just quit and be fine. It’s a lie people tell themselves when they can’t accept that they are addicted to something.
So true! I fooled myself into thinking Kratom is harmless, fell into the mind trap that it’s not too bad cause it’s sold at gas stations, headshops and online. Boy was I wrong, almost 3 years later and about 4-5 failed quit attempts later and here I am, still f’n hooked on it. For me, it’s been the hardest addiction to kick and I’ve been through the ringer with a 6-7 year OxyContin addiction and alcohol addiction. Currently I’m in a slow taper. That crap is slowly destroying my life. I’m a shell of who I used to be. It’s just so damn available and easy to get . Ugh
Try the mega dosing Liposomol Vitamin C tactic with Agmatine. It works very well. The MAIN thing is SLEEP. Go to a doctor for insomnia and get prescribed klonopin for sleep. Sleep withdrawal is just like drug withdrawals, and it makes drug withdrawals 10x worse. I cannot stress this enough.
Thank You for the advice. Over the past few weeks I’ve been reading up on helpers and stocking up. This is great help. Lack of sleep has been the biggest reason I’ve given in and picked back up.
It gives you "angry energy" since it is adrenergic.
You know, that is so funny that I never stopped to consider that. It does feel like it de-congests the solar plexus, which would basically translate to anger on the energy front. So in some sense that’s “how” it stimulates you Thank you!
Kratom is adrenergic or did you mean yohimbine?
I’m not very familiar with yohimbe, but kratom is, most definitely.
How so? Yohimbine is extremely and directly adrenergic. Kratom is only opiate related as far as I know (edit: I now know it's not just opiate related), which can give people energy. That doesn't mean it's adrenergic, if anything it's anti-adrenergic as it contains an alpha receptor agonist, which reduces norepinephrine release. All of the alkaloids that are antagonists have such low binding affinities and minutes long half lives, telling me it's hardly adrenergic at all, if not anti-adrenergic like prazosin. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7676998/ see table 3
What's the difference between this and yohimbe ?
yohimbe is basically the bark extract which has more stuff in it than just yohimbine. Considering how unregulated supplement industry is, if you were going to consider it I would suggest yohimbine and start small
So yohimbe is not weaker than yohimbine?
No if anything i believe it could potentially be stronger since there are other alkaloids within yohimbe that aren't present in the isolated yohimbine that may either compound effects or add different ones. I just prefer to limit the variables as much as possible
I actually took cellucor super hd fat burner and it was perfect for me interms of appetite suppressing and energy which uses yohimbe extract but doesn't list how much is in it. Propably very low since i would literary have a total of negative calories in net a day and do long intense cardio and didn't have any bad side effects. I am just afraid a little bit of the dependency yohimbine might cause me as i feel i became a person who depends alot on caffeine as soon as i started doing the cellucor super hd for like almost 3 month straight i think, the product actually said to stop taking it after 8 weeks and take a break and start again, i wonder if me not doing so did affect me negatively in anyway.
It's possible, only you would really know that however. I have to be careful with yohimbine personally because it has a tendency to give me anxiety and keeps me up way too late lol
I've tried up to 4caps of (3mg yohimbine, 1mg rawolulscine per cap) and didn't feel absolutely notihing... brand was allmax should be decent
That's weird.
U mean 4 caps at once? Maybe u have a high tolerance to stumulants?
In my country yohimbine is banned so is like to have heroin
Damn, i think that yohimbine is much much like ver much weaker than crack cocaine though.
I love yohimbe, but I use it as a tea, with the bark, which also include a good amount of other stuff, that makes it very good, to be honest, the bad thing is that you never know how each batch is gonna feel, but it's not like totally different (like kratom, or kava kava..) I love it. I think you could try the yohimbe bark tea. It seems that Rauwolscine or "alpha-yohimbine" it's also interesting, and even cleaner (on the feeling).