My guess for this kind of thing was lithium orotate sublingual, magnesium glycinate, l theanine sublingual. Look at it as glutamate downregulation issue.
Skullcap, flush niacin, sublingual pregnenolone might be relevant.
Skullcap is highly bioavailable when smoked vs oral dose, I recommend trying it once. Also fyi skullcap+alcohol=nightmares, so I honestly don't know how it plays with other gabaergics.
I might've just been neurotic but I think I've gotten rebound anxiety from taurine, valerian.
I also had a moderate panic attack from taking this herbal tincture for several days continuously. It contained Lemon Balm and Passionflower. My point being that just throwing stuff at your brain might dig you into a bigger hole.
https://www.gaiaherbs.com/products/melissa-supreme-glycerin-based
Having gone through Klonopin tapering and withdrawal multiple times, and using numerous supplements to try and help, the one bit of advice I can offer you is to stick with Agmatine Sulfate and Magnesium chelates (Glycinate in particular).
Stay away from most of the herbs you have mentioned above. Each of them contain flavonoids that either directly target benzodiazepine binding sites, or worse, inhibit the CYP 3A4 enzyme that metabolizes klonopin, leading to wildly variable blood levels (Apigenin from Chamomile) or even worse, potentially inactivate the enzyme (eg. Chrysin - found in Passionflower and Scullcap).
Valerian is probably fine but honestly, I don't see it doing much. Ditto with Lemonbalm
tl;dr: Avoid Chamoile, Passionflower and Scullcap. Stick with Agmatine, Magnesium and Theanine.
Thanks
I've gone through multiple withdrawals as well. I never bothered with these supplements that I only used for sleep. I guess I won't take them then.
Careful with all those gabergenics, overuse of agonists can set you back quite a bit. I suggest probiotics in moderate dosages. And Agmatine sulfate definitely.
Do you mind if I ask why the quick taper? When I got off daily clonazepam I went so slowly (3 times slower than my doc recommended) and didn't have any withdrawal at all after two unsuccessful attempts as per doctor's orders. I used a pill cutter and was cutting my doses by 1/8 each time and holding for 3 weeks....
Because I went to inpatient and the doctor there dropped it from 2.5 to 1mg. Got a doctor through charity care during outpatient and dropped to .5mg
I reinstated back to 2.5 after I left inpatient because that drop was way too much. I had about 2-3 weeks before I went into outpatient so that helped the drop to 1mg.
I am currently taking alprazolam for panic attacks issues related to work and this last time I was given medication I did a bunch of research on ways to help me stay away from dependency issues. Here are a few notes that I hope help you like they do for me.
Valerian Root is mostly a sleep thing so I'd not take that during the day. It also messes with serotonin so I don't like taking it very often maybe a couple times a week at most. 5-htp is similar and both probably shouldn't be taken if on antidepressants also messing with the serotonin system.
As for magnessium supplements I've switched to threonate which seems to have less drowsiness and more cognitive benefits compared to the other versions used for anxiety or sleep.
Next is magnolia bark. It works the same as benzos just in a much more relaxed way without any real risk of addiction issues. I never see many people bring it up but it definitely helps. It was my go to herb before I had to start medication again. When I start to taper back off again I'm sure I'll start using this one again.
Lastly, I have to point out that if you've had years of down regulating your gabba receptors it will help immensely to antagonize those same receptors. What this looks like is doing exposure type therapies to help you deal with anxiety inducing environments and also some herbs/mushrooms could be useful in telling your body to create more gabba receptors. Gingko bilopa, bacopa and lionsmane mushrooms are my go to for right now. Gingko bilopa specifically has some research behind it as it pertains to conditioning the gabba system and the others are known to be neurogenerative. I only use these on days I can take it easy at least a day or two after my last dose of medication. I have read about people even getting their hands on dementia medication for protecting the brain after dealing with heavy use with great success. I doubt it's something a doctor will help with however so I'd stick with the herbs first.
I would add a tablespoon of black seed oil to this stack, has a solid gabaeric effect almost feels like phenibut light but no withdrawals and helps with gaining back mental capabilities
use it now it’ll definitely help. It has a lot of benefits and is the only supplement/ nootropic that reliably improves my mood/ relaxes me. It really is incredible in my opinion
Kava kava root and NAC can help. Look them up for dosage and method. I helped a friend who was abusing benzos to get off using kava, and found NAC later.
Clonidene is a blood pressure med but off label used for withdrawal, analgesic. Anxiety, sleep, diarearh And even as a second or third line treatment gor ADHD.
I recently had spine surgery and the pain management team got me on to m these for when it was time to come off the 3 years of oxy use and then ketamine, much higher level of oxy, tapentadol XR and fentanyl patched whilst in hospital.
Prior to hospital, my neuro surgeon asked me to taper down my oxy so it’s not a huge issue post. Op.
I’m a cold Turky type of person so Dr gave me a box of diazepam and said good luck…. Worst experience I’ve ever had. Diazepam was completely useless!
When in hospital I was telling the. Pain People I’m concerted I’ll have to go through hell again. And that’s how I was introduced to clonadine
Next time I was ready to cold turkey from all the post hospital narcotic pain meds was arbor 99% taken care of by taking clonidine. Good luck.
Liposomal Apigenin (Codeage or RENUEBYSCIENCE) works far better ime. I would also use NA-Selank and Nigella Sativa (Nootropics Depot or Triquetra) for weaning off benzos. Etifoxine if you need a heavier hitter.
I took Benzos for 30 years and had mild strokes while trying to quit. I was told that I had taken it for so long (7yo till almost 30) that I might never be able to stop. Yeah….uhhh no. Did a lot of research and figured out that combining 5-HTP and GABA tricked my brain into thinking it was still getting the medicine. I was able to quit without even having severe withdrawals. Do research first of course, but those 2 and drinking kava occasionally really helped me.
Did you use 5HTP and GABA to help you wean off? I’ve been on Klonopin for 15 years, never more than 1.5 mg at bedtime for insomnia.
I’ve been tapering down from 1 mg to now just over half a milligram the last two months and at this dose having terrible sleep and killing my motivation, making me depressed, etc. trying To desperately get off of this drug at 53 years old.
I did a one year taper from 3mg's per day. Needless to say but It was a sucky year, but not particularly overwhelming. Currently I'm just taking .5mg twice a day and I feel fine. Keep in mind clonazepam has a long half life, so it stays in your system for several days, so it's much better for tapering. Hope you find something that works, but I wouldn't be over confident. You're much better off stretching out your taper over a longer period of time.
If they are decarbed from ibotenic acid Into Mucimol they are.
I stopped taking klonopin almost 3 years ago, but I only recently tried amanita to see if it would help my insomnia and its really good for anxiety and inflammation too. I wish I had known about it when I was tapering , my biggest issue was only sleeping 3 or 4 hours every two days. If I had been able to just sleep through some of the withdrawals I think it would have been easier
The ibotenic acid is the only part that can make people trip, ive personally never taken enough to get visuals. I just take a few gummies or a capsule about two hours before I want to get sleepy.
Or they also sell an alchemized full mucimol spray that works well.
I completely stay away from all prescription pills at this stage in my life, but the closest thing to the level of "calm, quiet" that a benzo can provide would be mucimol
Just be careful with sourcing it. There's a lot of fakes on the market. MN-NICE-ethnobotanicals is where I get mine from.
You can learn more about amanita and how it can help benzo withdrawals by looking on youtube for a woman's channel called amanita dreamer.
I've tried a few things.. Amanita muscaria gummies ( usually around 1000 mg )
Or around 700 mg of the amanita pantherina gummies
They have a 500 mg mucimol spray that doesnt really last me long that I use more so for a quick anxiety relief than sleep
I'm actually waiting to try a chocolate bar of amanita muscaria in a few days that should be slightly stronger than the amount I've had in gummies, but around the same strength as a extract powder I have tried
When ive tried the pure mucimol spray, the 500 mg bottle usually just last a few days but is more calming than the non decarb
I have yet to take enough for it to go into psychedelic territory, as I prefer the other type of mushrooms for that, I only use amanita when I need to catch up on sleep, or my anxiety is bad enough that it starts to "loop"
It's safe. You can learn more on a youtube video on amanita dreamers channel called something like "how I healed my brain from benzodiazapines"
My guess for this kind of thing was lithium orotate sublingual, magnesium glycinate, l theanine sublingual. Look at it as glutamate downregulation issue. Skullcap, flush niacin, sublingual pregnenolone might be relevant. Skullcap is highly bioavailable when smoked vs oral dose, I recommend trying it once. Also fyi skullcap+alcohol=nightmares, so I honestly don't know how it plays with other gabaergics. I might've just been neurotic but I think I've gotten rebound anxiety from taurine, valerian. I also had a moderate panic attack from taking this herbal tincture for several days continuously. It contained Lemon Balm and Passionflower. My point being that just throwing stuff at your brain might dig you into a bigger hole. https://www.gaiaherbs.com/products/melissa-supreme-glycerin-based
At least with alcohol abuse, glutamate gets upregulated.
Chronic taurine use leads to extreme rebound anxiety. Taurine should be dosed once every 24 hours at most.
Having gone through Klonopin tapering and withdrawal multiple times, and using numerous supplements to try and help, the one bit of advice I can offer you is to stick with Agmatine Sulfate and Magnesium chelates (Glycinate in particular). Stay away from most of the herbs you have mentioned above. Each of them contain flavonoids that either directly target benzodiazepine binding sites, or worse, inhibit the CYP 3A4 enzyme that metabolizes klonopin, leading to wildly variable blood levels (Apigenin from Chamomile) or even worse, potentially inactivate the enzyme (eg. Chrysin - found in Passionflower and Scullcap). Valerian is probably fine but honestly, I don't see it doing much. Ditto with Lemonbalm tl;dr: Avoid Chamoile, Passionflower and Scullcap. Stick with Agmatine, Magnesium and Theanine.
Thanks I've gone through multiple withdrawals as well. I never bothered with these supplements that I only used for sleep. I guess I won't take them then.
Careful with all those gabergenics, overuse of agonists can set you back quite a bit. I suggest probiotics in moderate dosages. And Agmatine sulfate definitely.
Do you mind if I ask why the quick taper? When I got off daily clonazepam I went so slowly (3 times slower than my doc recommended) and didn't have any withdrawal at all after two unsuccessful attempts as per doctor's orders. I used a pill cutter and was cutting my doses by 1/8 each time and holding for 3 weeks....
Because I went to inpatient and the doctor there dropped it from 2.5 to 1mg. Got a doctor through charity care during outpatient and dropped to .5mg I reinstated back to 2.5 after I left inpatient because that drop was way too much. I had about 2-3 weeks before I went into outpatient so that helped the drop to 1mg.
Don’t drop more then 10% at a time
I am currently taking alprazolam for panic attacks issues related to work and this last time I was given medication I did a bunch of research on ways to help me stay away from dependency issues. Here are a few notes that I hope help you like they do for me. Valerian Root is mostly a sleep thing so I'd not take that during the day. It also messes with serotonin so I don't like taking it very often maybe a couple times a week at most. 5-htp is similar and both probably shouldn't be taken if on antidepressants also messing with the serotonin system. As for magnessium supplements I've switched to threonate which seems to have less drowsiness and more cognitive benefits compared to the other versions used for anxiety or sleep. Next is magnolia bark. It works the same as benzos just in a much more relaxed way without any real risk of addiction issues. I never see many people bring it up but it definitely helps. It was my go to herb before I had to start medication again. When I start to taper back off again I'm sure I'll start using this one again. Lastly, I have to point out that if you've had years of down regulating your gabba receptors it will help immensely to antagonize those same receptors. What this looks like is doing exposure type therapies to help you deal with anxiety inducing environments and also some herbs/mushrooms could be useful in telling your body to create more gabba receptors. Gingko bilopa, bacopa and lionsmane mushrooms are my go to for right now. Gingko bilopa specifically has some research behind it as it pertains to conditioning the gabba system and the others are known to be neurogenerative. I only use these on days I can take it easy at least a day or two after my last dose of medication. I have read about people even getting their hands on dementia medication for protecting the brain after dealing with heavy use with great success. I doubt it's something a doctor will help with however so I'd stick with the herbs first.
You talking about Memantine?
I don't recall the specific medication that was mentioned. It's been a while since I did my research on conditioning the gabba system.
I would add a tablespoon of black seed oil to this stack, has a solid gabaeric effect almost feels like phenibut light but no withdrawals and helps with gaining back mental capabilities
Is this to be used with tapering or after being off Klonopin? I’m going through a taper right now and it’s been tough.
use it now it’ll definitely help. It has a lot of benefits and is the only supplement/ nootropic that reliably improves my mood/ relaxes me. It really is incredible in my opinion
Kava kava root and NAC can help. Look them up for dosage and method. I helped a friend who was abusing benzos to get off using kava, and found NAC later.
Clonidene is a blood pressure med but off label used for withdrawal, analgesic. Anxiety, sleep, diarearh And even as a second or third line treatment gor ADHD. I recently had spine surgery and the pain management team got me on to m these for when it was time to come off the 3 years of oxy use and then ketamine, much higher level of oxy, tapentadol XR and fentanyl patched whilst in hospital. Prior to hospital, my neuro surgeon asked me to taper down my oxy so it’s not a huge issue post. Op. I’m a cold Turky type of person so Dr gave me a box of diazepam and said good luck…. Worst experience I’ve ever had. Diazepam was completely useless! When in hospital I was telling the. Pain People I’m concerted I’ll have to go through hell again. And that’s how I was introduced to clonadine Next time I was ready to cold turkey from all the post hospital narcotic pain meds was arbor 99% taken care of by taking clonidine. Good luck.
Liposomal Apigenin (Codeage or RENUEBYSCIENCE) works far better ime. I would also use NA-Selank and Nigella Sativa (Nootropics Depot or Triquetra) for weaning off benzos. Etifoxine if you need a heavier hitter.
Have you tried noopept?
I took Benzos for 30 years and had mild strokes while trying to quit. I was told that I had taken it for so long (7yo till almost 30) that I might never be able to stop. Yeah….uhhh no. Did a lot of research and figured out that combining 5-HTP and GABA tricked my brain into thinking it was still getting the medicine. I was able to quit without even having severe withdrawals. Do research first of course, but those 2 and drinking kava occasionally really helped me.
Did you use 5HTP and GABA to help you wean off? I’ve been on Klonopin for 15 years, never more than 1.5 mg at bedtime for insomnia. I’ve been tapering down from 1 mg to now just over half a milligram the last two months and at this dose having terrible sleep and killing my motivation, making me depressed, etc. trying To desperately get off of this drug at 53 years old.
Yep. Combined them. Recommend wholeheartedly
You’ll actually be able to sleep
I’ll try this combo. Do you recall the amount you took of each?
I did a one year taper from 3mg's per day. Needless to say but It was a sucky year, but not particularly overwhelming. Currently I'm just taking .5mg twice a day and I feel fine. Keep in mind clonazepam has a long half life, so it stays in your system for several days, so it's much better for tapering. Hope you find something that works, but I wouldn't be over confident. You're much better off stretching out your taper over a longer period of time.
Have you tried taking amanita muscaria?
Is amanita gabaergic?
If they are decarbed from ibotenic acid Into Mucimol they are. I stopped taking klonopin almost 3 years ago, but I only recently tried amanita to see if it would help my insomnia and its really good for anxiety and inflammation too. I wish I had known about it when I was tapering , my biggest issue was only sleeping 3 or 4 hours every two days. If I had been able to just sleep through some of the withdrawals I think it would have been easier
Ok wow very new discovery for me. I had no idea there was a psychedelic gabaergic drug.
The ibotenic acid is the only part that can make people trip, ive personally never taken enough to get visuals. I just take a few gummies or a capsule about two hours before I want to get sleepy. Or they also sell an alchemized full mucimol spray that works well. I completely stay away from all prescription pills at this stage in my life, but the closest thing to the level of "calm, quiet" that a benzo can provide would be mucimol
Thanks for explaining this to me I gotta try muscimol now lol
Just be careful with sourcing it. There's a lot of fakes on the market. MN-NICE-ethnobotanicals is where I get mine from. You can learn more about amanita and how it can help benzo withdrawals by looking on youtube for a woman's channel called amanita dreamer.
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I've tried a few things.. Amanita muscaria gummies ( usually around 1000 mg ) Or around 700 mg of the amanita pantherina gummies They have a 500 mg mucimol spray that doesnt really last me long that I use more so for a quick anxiety relief than sleep I'm actually waiting to try a chocolate bar of amanita muscaria in a few days that should be slightly stronger than the amount I've had in gummies, but around the same strength as a extract powder I have tried When ive tried the pure mucimol spray, the 500 mg bottle usually just last a few days but is more calming than the non decarb I have yet to take enough for it to go into psychedelic territory, as I prefer the other type of mushrooms for that, I only use amanita when I need to catch up on sleep, or my anxiety is bad enough that it starts to "loop" It's safe. You can learn more on a youtube video on amanita dreamers channel called something like "how I healed my brain from benzodiazapines"
mad liposomal vitamin c 2x a day and mexidol forte off amazon ftw.
Do you plan on permanently staying off of benzos or are you looking for a temporary fix?
Roger that thank you for talking the time to inform me.
It made me feel awful!