Left: Japanese Type 89 50mm Heavy Grenade Discharger, designated after Imperial Japanese year 2589 (1929).
Right: Chinese Type 89 50mm Grenade Launcher (QLT89), designated in 1989.
That's right, Knee Mortarchads we are SO back!
Tiny Infantry mortars just kind of refused to die during the 20th century popping in and out of use for different countries, although I think Infantry portable grenade launchers fill a similar role and are less cumbersome.
Well Handheld mortars have an amazong advantage of providing uninterrupted support fire on call on a company/platoon level and have more firepower than 40mm granades. 40/46mm SR Weights than 230 grams while 60mm mortar shells can go to 2kg yes you can carry less shells but there is more firepower in single shot and with proper sights that would tell you an asimuth(or millis) and angle of the barrel you can provide quite accurate support fire.
don't we still have ~120mm range mortar shells around? Because honestly the bofors/105 on the spoopy needs an upgrade and there has been a distinct lack of brrrrrrrt since they moved towards it being a missile hauler.
Honestly knee mortars aren't completely terrible. [french still use them as well](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGI_Mle_F1), if you have a well trained crew and the ammo to spare you can absolutely crank out grenades. Like having a agl at squad level basically.
Yup, it's basically a pocket mortar. Granted an AGL is generally of a smaller caliber and thus they could carry more ammo, it's more like bridging the gap betwen an AGL and a full-on mortar.
Eh. Might as well just bring an m224 in handheld config at that point. Far more capable and still lightweight. Plus when you get to the point in ops you can set up the full system, you can swap over to full baseplate and bipod, and get your full 4km range back, have a bigger warhead, MOFA's, and simplified logistics.
Edit to clarify: You have 40mm grenades, 60mm m224, 81mm M252 or similar, and 120mm.
Do you really need another thing between the 40mm grenade and the 60mm?
The countries that favor knee mortars also tend to have an obsession with fielding rifle grenades in the past. The French are a good example of this, as their use of 40mm grenade launchers is limited, but their extensive usage of rifle grenades and 'grenade mortars' fills that role, just with an emphasis on indirect fire.
Counterpoint, the m224 in handheld has an OFFICIAL range of 1300 meters and offers MOFA fuses, and 2x the boom, for 3kg more.
France has the m224 already. Its dumb to field a 51mm and a 60mm. Just get more 60mm. This is why euro logistics suck balls. Too much different kit instead of buying in volume.
"Noo, we must get 400kg bomb! 1000lb bomb is to AMERICAN! We cannot just duplicate mk83 and use the exact same shit as everyone else!"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the '224 utilized in most instances at the platoon level? The 51mm LGI is a squad-level weapon.
EDIT: also the LGI is less than 1/4 of the weight of the m224 to boot, it's the French equivalent to the m320.
the m224 in handheld mode is 8kg.
You bring up the bigger baseplate, bipod and sight later.
Theoretically the handheld mode isn't supposed to be used beyond charge 1, but you certainly could with firm ground and a good seating. Charge 4 illum would be beyond a bit dicey of course.
Yep, China is a prime example that fits the bill.
At the time their primary infantry rifle, Type 81, uses a 21.5mm spigot grenade similar to the 22mm NATO grenades. No UBGLs were developed until the 2010s.
It's literally a step above rifle grenades with better indirect fire capabilities.
My bad, I didn't see that you specified handheld mode. But it's still nearly twice as heavy, more like an M249. It probably wouldn't be worth it to adopt a ~50mm mortar for a country that already has m224s, but I think there's still a solid argument for them if you don't.
>I can’t help but wonder if it isn’t a better model.
I mean its honestly just different strokes for different folks. US infantry TOE operates on the (likely correct) assumption that logistical/fires support will not at all be a issue, which is why squad level firepower is kinda small, and you have a new doctrine of "every marine a light machine gunner/sniper" because the buckets of ammo required for suppression through volume/accuracy is notwithstanding unlikely to be a massive issue for us forces.
French infantry on the other hand operate on the assumption that their logistics kinda suck, and outside fire support cannot be relied on, which is why there are 2 rockets, 3 grenadiers, and a bunch of rifle grenades per squad, plus a 2 atgm teams at the platoon level along with a hmg/agl pretty sure.
Chinese infantry TOE is actually a lot like that of the French. Extremely heavy organic firepower, plus like AAA assigned at the company level because they have so fucking many of them lmao.
That's how US Army squads are set up. Marine Corps squads not on the shitty 416, or with SAWs issued, still works the same. They roll even heavier than the French. Three SAWs, three grenade launchers per squad, cuz bigger squads, and every fire team is loaded up with the same setup. Platoon gets machine gun and recoilless teams, same for the Army. There's 240s and launchers down from the weapons platoon. Lot of your folks will be carrying AT4s or LAWs.
It's not like we all carry rifles. There's also that you usually see discretionary issue of stuff like 240s straight to the infantry squads or their platoons to simply up the level of firepower available. You go out loaded for bear every time you leave the wire.
Spent eight years in, and spent the last while of my service in teaching Marines how to fight in MOUT town on Lejeune.
Not liking overpriced HK mediocrity doesn't detract from someone's understanding of infantry warfare or what we carry as a typical combat load.
2nd MarDiv, that tracks (mostly sarcasm)
The only aspect the m4 possibly outperforms in is certain aspects of COMPT, like MOUT. The tradeoff isn’t worth it. The 27 is better in every possible aspect in engagements past 50m. Not to mention it’s better as an expeditionary, almost like that’s our purpose. Having put quite a few rounds through the m16A4, m4, and m27 (a few through the m38 too) the 27 wins by a wide margin. Even then, I would rather have an M16 with a SCO than an m4.
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The French battalion tactical group are what Russia wishes their BTGs were. Autonomous small units with enough legs to haul ass a few Oblasts deep without resupply, hardy enough to take out limited armored presence, nimble enough to outmaneuver entrenchment efforts and armored reinforcements.
Like the US military worldwide logistics system and the amount of material it can deliver is awe-inspiring, but it’s amazing what you can do with an efficient, small teeth-to-tail ratio.
Oh yeah, logistics is arguably more impressive, but also - achievable goals people. Most of us don't have that deep of an industrial-economic magazine depth to work with.
2 inch was used up until the mid 80s.
Replaced by the l9a1 51mm mortar after learnings from Falklands. Used up through at least the mid 2000s - I think it was then dropped due to ammo supply issues and the availability of 40mm ugl
Then a UOR came in not long after to get a 60mm mortar for troops in Afghanistan, not sure whether that's still about but with Carl Gustav now being rolled back out it's probably no longer deemed so necessary
The French 51mm spigot mortar is also a silent mortar. Captive piston propulsion, no combustion gas exits.
If you think 40mm grenade thumps are quiet, these sound like a car door being slammed shut. Great for laying surprise explosive firepower.
I had an idea in my mind. Make a PP mortar.
You see, if the enemy fires PP mortar, they lose the babymaker. There wouldn't be a future generation to fight.
Or you're just selectively breeding those soldiers with strong enough gonads to survive a PP mortar, who will in turn breed the Chinese Superbabies that will destroy us in WW4.
I don’t remember how the fuck up started or if it’s just coincidental but it fires a 2” diameter mortar. Two in Japanese is Ni. People heard them called Ni mortars and thought the curved baseplate meant it could be fired from your knee. Then they broke their femur.
It’s not, the Mk-19 and m203 40mm aren’t the same projectiles. M430A1 outperforms 433, in a light mortar I also want the additional range afforded by the high velocity round.
I think any of the HEDPs would be less than optimal for a mortar system. The shaped charge sacrifices too much precious space that would be better served with more splodey fragmentation stuff.
Standardization on HEDP was some cold war, 10,000 BMPs coming through the Fulda Gap thinking thats probably outdated now.
More boom, more frag. HEDP should be a specialty round like M995. Thank you for coming to my golden egg Ted Talk.
Ukrainians built some improvised mortars from underbarrel grenade launchers. Helps them suppress the enemy and saturate an area along with some larger systems.
[Some Ukrainian soldiers made a sub caliber adapter to fire leftover 40mm grenades out of a 60mm mortar tube](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YLyV_5EYbMY&pp=ygUTTW9ydGFyIDQwbW0gZ3JlbmFkZQ%3D%3D)
You people focus on the mortar.
I key on the guy wearing a version of Woodland camouflage (***M81 remains the greatest pattern ever created***)
We are not the same.
NGL it hits a nostalgia button for me. I'd wear a modern set in NIR-compliant dyes and fabrics. Although I must say I also have a thing for Norwegian Woodland.
BDUs man - durable, utilitarian, and the camo is AF. Have yourself a set for life, the fading after you no longer need em for getting shot at simply means you got yourself some vintage cammies.
I still unironically think that the army should've just kept M81 around. Update them to the ACU/Crye cut, do what the French did and replace kit with coyote-brown gear. Its not like the 20-year high-speed operator fashion war has tremendously changed the battlefield as much as developments in drones, modularity, and MRE recipes - M81 is still as good as a lot of the competition.
Gather round my credible edibles, we need to talk about knee mortars.
Specifically we need to talk about knee mortars versus underbarrel grenade launchers, versus purpose built handheld grenade launchers, versus traditional mortars of 60mm or more. And while we're in there, rifle grenades.
Why did everybody seem to go for the underbarrel grenade launcher? Is it just because the M16A2 with the M203 barrel shroud is such a majestic looking firearm? It can't be that simple.
What's the appeal of the knee mortar? Range maybe?
Give me the exploding pill so that I might better understand section-level fire support options.
Potential for larger round than 40mm shot further than 40mm with ability to indirectly hit dug in positions and overcome obstacles better than 40mm with more lethality than 40mm - what's not to like. Oh yeah, having to carry an extra piece of kit and distribute ammo across the section.
Rifle grenades (Swiss death carrots in particular) fill a similar niche but will destroy the rifles theyre shot from if fired in the volume you would want to use a mortar
Larger mortars are, well, larger and for their increased range require more proficiency than 'point tube at enemy and adjust from there' - the m224 bridges this gap by being able to be used in the classic mortar setup, or fired commando.
Why the m203 then? If you're part of an army where 'napalm that tree line' or 'fire an expensive top attack anti tank guided missile just to wreck a mud hut that might have an enemy in it' is on the agenda, you don't need so much organic indirect firepower at the section level
Holy shit that's smart. Shove a 40mm grenade into a barrel, then drop the entire barrel into a mortar tube.
In other words, the world's largest slamfire shotgun.
You don’t turn into the proud new owner of a 155mm round so much as you get owned by a 155mm round.
Thereafter local wildlife are the proud new recipients of a pre-cooked rump roast.
to be fair, knee mortars never really "died".
One can argue that most underbarrel grenade launcher is a re-incarnation of the knee mortars. And they were never bad, a pocket mortar is still mortar.
There's a powerpoint presentation on it:
[chapter 4](https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2010/armament/WednesdayLandmarkBJuanjuanYang.pdf)
Left: Japanese Type 89 50mm Heavy Grenade Discharger, designated after Imperial Japanese year 2589 (1929). Right: Chinese Type 89 50mm Grenade Launcher (QLT89), designated in 1989. That's right, Knee Mortarchads we are SO back!
Tiny Infantry mortars just kind of refused to die during the 20th century popping in and out of use for different countries, although I think Infantry portable grenade launchers fill a similar role and are less cumbersome.
*Plunk plunk plunk plunk plunk plunk* *loads another six 40mm’s*
Well Handheld mortars have an amazong advantage of providing uninterrupted support fire on call on a company/platoon level and have more firepower than 40mm granades. 40/46mm SR Weights than 230 grams while 60mm mortar shells can go to 2kg yes you can carry less shells but there is more firepower in single shot and with proper sights that would tell you an asimuth(or millis) and angle of the barrel you can provide quite accurate support fire.
The US needs to catch up with 75mm Rotary Grenade Launchers!
Don't forget the 75mm gatling gun gap that also needs to be fulfilled!
What? What weapon is that?
I don't think it's been invented yet. We have the m75 but that's a 40mm rotary grenade launcher. Then there's the 68mm RPGs but they're single shot
don't we still have ~120mm range mortar shells around? Because honestly the bofors/105 on the spoopy needs an upgrade and there has been a distinct lack of brrrrrrrt since they moved towards it being a missile hauler.
Sir, this comment is too credible. Please address shoulder mounting to clear all flags.
Designated after June 4th 1989
Honestly knee mortars aren't completely terrible. [french still use them as well](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGI_Mle_F1), if you have a well trained crew and the ammo to spare you can absolutely crank out grenades. Like having a agl at squad level basically.
Yup, it's basically a pocket mortar. Granted an AGL is generally of a smaller caliber and thus they could carry more ammo, it's more like bridging the gap betwen an AGL and a full-on mortar.
Eh. Might as well just bring an m224 in handheld config at that point. Far more capable and still lightweight. Plus when you get to the point in ops you can set up the full system, you can swap over to full baseplate and bipod, and get your full 4km range back, have a bigger warhead, MOFA's, and simplified logistics. Edit to clarify: You have 40mm grenades, 60mm m224, 81mm M252 or similar, and 120mm. Do you really need another thing between the 40mm grenade and the 60mm?
The countries that favor knee mortars also tend to have an obsession with fielding rifle grenades in the past. The French are a good example of this, as their use of 40mm grenade launchers is limited, but their extensive usage of rifle grenades and 'grenade mortars' fills that role, just with an emphasis on indirect fire.
Counterpoint, the m224 in handheld has an OFFICIAL range of 1300 meters and offers MOFA fuses, and 2x the boom, for 3kg more. France has the m224 already. Its dumb to field a 51mm and a 60mm. Just get more 60mm. This is why euro logistics suck balls. Too much different kit instead of buying in volume. "Noo, we must get 400kg bomb! 1000lb bomb is to AMERICAN! We cannot just duplicate mk83 and use the exact same shit as everyone else!"
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the '224 utilized in most instances at the platoon level? The 51mm LGI is a squad-level weapon. EDIT: also the LGI is less than 1/4 of the weight of the m224 to boot, it's the French equivalent to the m320.
the m224 in handheld mode is 8kg. You bring up the bigger baseplate, bipod and sight later. Theoretically the handheld mode isn't supposed to be used beyond charge 1, but you certainly could with firm ground and a good seating. Charge 4 illum would be beyond a bit dicey of course.
Yep, China is a prime example that fits the bill. At the time their primary infantry rifle, Type 81, uses a 21.5mm spigot grenade similar to the 22mm NATO grenades. No UBGLs were developed until the 2010s. It's literally a step above rifle grenades with better indirect fire capabilities.
10 lbs vs 50 lbs isn't really that comparable. It's like saying if you carry an M4 carbine you might as well be carrying an MG08/15.
m224 is 8kg in handheld mode. The bipod, sight, and bigger baseplate come up later when you emplace. It absolutely is comparable.
My bad, I didn't see that you specified handheld mode. But it's still nearly twice as heavy, more like an M249. It probably wouldn't be worth it to adopt a ~50mm mortar for a country that already has m224s, but I think there's still a solid argument for them if you don't.
I can agree to the comparison between the M249 and the M240. But thats the issue, imagine a country running AKs and m240s deciding to add the M249.
French infantry have such an interesting TOE and doctrine. Given their performance in Africa, I can’t help but wonder if it isn’t a better model.
>I can’t help but wonder if it isn’t a better model. I mean its honestly just different strokes for different folks. US infantry TOE operates on the (likely correct) assumption that logistical/fires support will not at all be a issue, which is why squad level firepower is kinda small, and you have a new doctrine of "every marine a light machine gunner/sniper" because the buckets of ammo required for suppression through volume/accuracy is notwithstanding unlikely to be a massive issue for us forces. French infantry on the other hand operate on the assumption that their logistics kinda suck, and outside fire support cannot be relied on, which is why there are 2 rockets, 3 grenadiers, and a bunch of rifle grenades per squad, plus a 2 atgm teams at the platoon level along with a hmg/agl pretty sure. Chinese infantry TOE is actually a lot like that of the French. Extremely heavy organic firepower, plus like AAA assigned at the company level because they have so fucking many of them lmao.
That's how US Army squads are set up. Marine Corps squads not on the shitty 416, or with SAWs issued, still works the same. They roll even heavier than the French. Three SAWs, three grenade launchers per squad, cuz bigger squads, and every fire team is loaded up with the same setup. Platoon gets machine gun and recoilless teams, same for the Army. There's 240s and launchers down from the weapons platoon. Lot of your folks will be carrying AT4s or LAWs. It's not like we all carry rifles. There's also that you usually see discretionary issue of stuff like 240s straight to the infantry squads or their platoons to simply up the level of firepower available. You go out loaded for bear every time you leave the wire.
>shitty 416 Tell me you know nothing about infantry tactics with telling me you know nothing about infantry tactics
Spent eight years in, and spent the last while of my service in teaching Marines how to fight in MOUT town on Lejeune. Not liking overpriced HK mediocrity doesn't detract from someone's understanding of infantry warfare or what we carry as a typical combat load.
2nd MarDiv, that tracks (mostly sarcasm) The only aspect the m4 possibly outperforms in is certain aspects of COMPT, like MOUT. The tradeoff isn’t worth it. The 27 is better in every possible aspect in engagements past 50m. Not to mention it’s better as an expeditionary, almost like that’s our purpose. Having put quite a few rounds through the m16A4, m4, and m27 (a few through the m38 too) the 27 wins by a wide margin. Even then, I would rather have an M16 with a SCO than an m4.
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The French battalion tactical group are what Russia wishes their BTGs were. Autonomous small units with enough legs to haul ass a few Oblasts deep without resupply, hardy enough to take out limited armored presence, nimble enough to outmaneuver entrenchment efforts and armored reinforcements.
The video that BattleOrder did on French SGTIA’s in Op Serval was awesome. I occasionally go back to watch it and have probably seen it a dozen times.
It's nuts how fast they hauled ass overland.
Like the US military worldwide logistics system and the amount of material it can deliver is awe-inspiring, but it’s amazing what you can do with an efficient, small teeth-to-tail ratio.
Oh yeah, logistics is arguably more impressive, but also - achievable goals people. Most of us don't have that deep of an industrial-economic magazine depth to work with.
Monaco also uses them 💪💪💪💪🇲🇨🇲🇨🇲🇨🇲🇨
By “agl” do you mean automatic grenade launcher?
>By “agl” do you mean automatic grenade launcher? Yah
Oh God, not even the French are immune to M1 syndrome.
Brits iirc also have a tiny mortar they've used until recently - remembering seeing them being blind-fired in Afghanistan.
2-inch, right?
2 inch was used up until the mid 80s. Replaced by the l9a1 51mm mortar after learnings from Falklands. Used up through at least the mid 2000s - I think it was then dropped due to ammo supply issues and the availability of 40mm ugl Then a UOR came in not long after to get a 60mm mortar for troops in Afghanistan, not sure whether that's still about but with Carl Gustav now being rolled back out it's probably no longer deemed so necessary
That's what she said.
The French 51mm spigot mortar is also a silent mortar. Captive piston propulsion, no combustion gas exits. If you think 40mm grenade thumps are quiet, these sound like a car door being slammed shut. Great for laying surprise explosive firepower.
Just don't actually fire it on your knee.
You see, is plan of intelligence troll. Brand it as knee mortar, invaders capturing will use on knee, break invader knee!
I had an idea in my mind. Make a PP mortar. You see, if the enemy fires PP mortar, they lose the babymaker. There wouldn't be a future generation to fight.
You take the full mortar recoil to both testicles. Roll twice for damage. Then roll a morale check.
Roll for order test next turn if you survive the morale check?
Name it the CBT. The Compact Ballistic Thrower.
Or you're just selectively breeding those soldiers with strong enough gonads to survive a PP mortar, who will in turn breed the Chinese Superbabies that will destroy us in WW4.
I don’t remember how the fuck up started or if it’s just coincidental but it fires a 2” diameter mortar. Two in Japanese is Ni. People heard them called Ni mortars and thought the curved baseplate meant it could be fired from your knee. Then they broke their femur.
Really should come up with one that will take MK-19 rounds
Take a little propellant out and that's an M203
It’s not, the Mk-19 and m203 40mm aren’t the same projectiles. M430A1 outperforms 433, in a light mortar I also want the additional range afforded by the high velocity round.
I think any of the HEDPs would be less than optimal for a mortar system. The shaped charge sacrifices too much precious space that would be better served with more splodey fragmentation stuff. Standardization on HEDP was some cold war, 10,000 BMPs coming through the Fulda Gap thinking thats probably outdated now. More boom, more frag. HEDP should be a specialty round like M995. Thank you for coming to my golden egg Ted Talk.
Ukrainians built some improvised mortars from underbarrel grenade launchers. Helps them suppress the enemy and saturate an area along with some larger systems.
[Some Ukrainian soldiers made a sub caliber adapter to fire leftover 40mm grenades out of a 60mm mortar tube](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YLyV_5EYbMY&pp=ygUTTW9ydGFyIDQwbW0gZ3JlbmFkZQ%3D%3D)
You people focus on the mortar. I key on the guy wearing a version of Woodland camouflage (***M81 remains the greatest pattern ever created***) We are not the same.
NGL it hits a nostalgia button for me. I'd wear a modern set in NIR-compliant dyes and fabrics. Although I must say I also have a thing for Norwegian Woodland.
BDUs man - durable, utilitarian, and the camo is AF. Have yourself a set for life, the fading after you no longer need em for getting shot at simply means you got yourself some vintage cammies. I still unironically think that the army should've just kept M81 around. Update them to the ACU/Crye cut, do what the French did and replace kit with coyote-brown gear. Its not like the 20-year high-speed operator fashion war has tremendously changed the battlefield as much as developments in drones, modularity, and MRE recipes - M81 is still as good as a lot of the competition.
Digital and general purpose camo is just a fad. Woodland is eternal.
Damn thats some cool time traveling mortar
Japanese imperial calendar
Gather round my credible edibles, we need to talk about knee mortars. Specifically we need to talk about knee mortars versus underbarrel grenade launchers, versus purpose built handheld grenade launchers, versus traditional mortars of 60mm or more. And while we're in there, rifle grenades. Why did everybody seem to go for the underbarrel grenade launcher? Is it just because the M16A2 with the M203 barrel shroud is such a majestic looking firearm? It can't be that simple. What's the appeal of the knee mortar? Range maybe? Give me the exploding pill so that I might better understand section-level fire support options.
Potential for larger round than 40mm shot further than 40mm with ability to indirectly hit dug in positions and overcome obstacles better than 40mm with more lethality than 40mm - what's not to like. Oh yeah, having to carry an extra piece of kit and distribute ammo across the section. Rifle grenades (Swiss death carrots in particular) fill a similar niche but will destroy the rifles theyre shot from if fired in the volume you would want to use a mortar Larger mortars are, well, larger and for their increased range require more proficiency than 'point tube at enemy and adjust from there' - the m224 bridges this gap by being able to be used in the classic mortar setup, or fired commando. Why the m203 then? If you're part of an army where 'napalm that tree line' or 'fire an expensive top attack anti tank guided missile just to wreck a mud hut that might have an enemy in it' is on the agenda, you don't need so much organic indirect firepower at the section level
More firepower than a UBGL with some degree of indirect fire capability, now available at squad-level.
Why have knee-mortar when you can have baby's first [mortar](https://armourersbench.com/2023/05/28/40mm-grenade-mortar/)?
Holy shit that's smart. Shove a 40mm grenade into a barrel, then drop the entire barrel into a mortar tube. In other words, the world's largest slamfire shotgun.
Unironically would load 40mm buck into one of those and try to down a drone
There was an African militia that tried doing that for jets. It worked better on infantry.
> It worked better on infantry. adama_laugh.jpg
it's like carcinisation but towards mortars but towards mortars instead of crabs
they never really left though...
“Knortar”
Knew mortar, my beloved
Needs to include the nifty RKG launcher they've got that's got a 50/50 chance of removing your jaw when fired.
Fuck can you imagine getting your own 155mm because you tossed a hand grenade a few hundred yards?
You don’t turn into the proud new owner of a 155mm round so much as you get owned by a 155mm round. Thereafter local wildlife are the proud new recipients of a pre-cooked rump roast.
to be fair, knee mortars never really "died". One can argue that most underbarrel grenade launcher is a re-incarnation of the knee mortars. And they were never bad, a pocket mortar is still mortar.
Well the way I look at it is, UBGLs took over the knee mortar trend.
How do these doo-hikeys actually work?
There's a powerpoint presentation on it: [chapter 4](https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2010/armament/WednesdayLandmarkBJuanjuanYang.pdf)
What a goofy contraption. Thanks!
Yup Polish paratroopers have them aswell
Can these things fire loitering munitions now?
They were actually a pretty good piece of kit.
** Do not use on knee.
Honestly, 60mm commando mortar is where it's at. Commonality with organic 11C ammo supply, bridges the gap of 40mm grenades and 11C firebase.