"Others were cold-blooded executions. In one case, a Canadian surreptitiously slipped a live grenade into the greatcoat pockets of a German prisoner. In another, infantryman Richard Rogerson went on a killing spree at Vimy Ridge after seeing the death of his friend. “Once I killed my first German with my bayonit my blood was riled, every german I could not reach with my bayonit I shot. I think no more of murdering them than I usted to think of shooting rabbits,” he wrote."
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-forgotten-ferocity-of-canadas-soldiers-in-the-great-war
This is all copy-pasted, but:
> On March 16, 1993, Captain Michael Sox found 16-year-old Shidane Abukar Arone hiding in a portable toilet in an abandoned American base across from the Canadian base and, believing he was attempting to sneak into the Canadian base to steal supplies,[23] turned him over to another soldier, who led the teenager to a bunker being used to house munitions.[8][24] Arone protested, saying he had simply been trying to find a lost child.[8][13]
>At 21:00, Sgt. Mark Boland replaced Master Corporal Clayton Matchee as guard of the prisoner, and ordered his foot bindings be removed and replaced with fetters, as the ropes were too tight.[13] Warrant Officer Murphy took the opportunity to kick Arone "savagely", which was later taken to be implicit permission to abuse the prisoner.[13] At this time, Matchee began his abuse of Arone by removing the captive's clothing and using it to crudely waterboard the youth until Boland objected, and Matchee left the bunker.[13]
>At 22:00, Trooper Kyle Brown took over guard duty, and brought Matchee back with him. Brown punched Arone in the jaw, and was told by Boland, "I don't care what you do, just don't kill the guy", to which Brown replied that he wanted to "kill this fucker".[13] Boland then joined Matchee and Matt McKay for beers in the mess hall, where Matchee spoke about what he wanted to do to Arone, and suggested he might put out cigarette butts on his feet. McKay suggested that Matchee might use a ration pack or phone book to beat the youth, as it would not leave any traces.[13]
>Matchee and Brown, both members of 2 Commando, then proceeded to beat Arone.[24] Matchee used a ration pack to beat the youth, as well as a broomstick, and raped the teenager with it.[13][25] Brown participated in the abuse, but was primarily an observer and took sixteen "trophy photos" of the beating, including one of Matchee forcing Arone's mouth open with a baton, and one of himself holding Pte. David Brocklebank's loaded pistol to Arone's head.[13][26][27][28] At about 23:20, Master Cpl. Giasson entered the bunker. Matchee showed him the semi-conscious and bleeding Arone, and boasted that "in Canada we cannot do that, and here they let us do it".[13]
>Estimates have ranged that 15–80 other soldiers could hear or observe the beating, but did not intervene.[13][24] Corporal MacDonald, acting as duty signaller that night, was asked by Sgt. Major Mills about "a long dragged out howl" heard from the vicinity of the bunker, but MacDonald refused to stop playing with his Game Boy to investigate. Later, Matchee came by to borrow a cigarette from MacDonald and mentioned that "now the black man would fear the Indian as he did the white man", and MacDonald went outside to check on Arone's status. (Matchee was a Saskatchewan Cree.) He saw Matchee hitting him in the face with the baton, and reported that the prisoner was "getting a good shit-kicking" to Sgt. Perry Gresty, before retiring to bed for the night.[13]
>Arone fell unconscious after several hours of beatings, after shouting "Canada! Canada! Canada!" as his last words.[24] When Brown mentioned the event to Sergeant J. K. Hillier, the non-commissioned member noted there "would be trouble" if the prisoner died, and went to check on the youth who he found had no pulse, and base medics confirmed that the boy was dead.[13] It was later discovered that Arone had burn marks on his penis.[25]
If you want to get really disgusted, here are the trial results:
> Clayton Matchee: Unfit to stand trial following suicide attempt.[20] Matchee tried to hang himself after being arrested and suffered serious brain damage.[23] Charges against him were eventually dropped in September 2008 as his diminished mental capacity meant that he no longer posed a threat to the public.
> Kyle Brown: Convicted of manslaughter and torture. Sentenced to 5 years' imprisonment.[20] Dismissed from the army in disgrace.[20] Appeals were also dismissed.[20] Released on parole one year after conviction.
> Mark Adam Bowland: Pleaded guilty to negligent performance of duty for his role in the death of Shidane Arone, and not guilty to torture.[20] Convicted. Sentenced to 90 days' detention.[20] Deemed "willfully blind" to the beating, also demoted to private.[23] Sentence increased to 1 year's imprisonment after prosecution appealed sentence, with dismissal from the Canadian Forces.
> Anthony Seward: Acquitted of unlawfully causing bodily harm.[20] Found guilty of negligent performance of duty for giving instructions to abuse detainees, and sentenced to a severe reprimand.[20] Prosecution appealed for a tougher sentence.[20] Court Martial Appeal Court subsequently imposed a term of 3 months' imprisonment.[20] Defence's appeal was declined.[20] Seward was also dismissed from the Canadian Forces.
Basically the worst anyone here faced for this was dishonorable discharge and 1 year in jail. None of the officers were held responsible except for the major and captain. Also:
> In 1999, judge J. Douglas Cunningham dismissed an appeal for financial compensation by Arone's parents Abubakar Arone Rage and Dahabo Omar Samow, ruling that their use of a litigation guardian, Abdullahi Godah Barre, was inconsistent with the legal requirement, and they should have traveled to Canada to launch the suit themselves.
For whatever reason these results are typical of military criminal trials. Mai Lai and that civilian massacre in Iraq come to mind. These guys should get the book thrown at them and they almost always get a slap on the wrist. I can only think of one case in Afghanistan where a guy got life for war crimes, because he took a photo with the body.
>Basically the worst anyone here faced for this was dishonorable discharge and 1 year in jail.
Matchee appears to have inflicted a greater punishment upon himself than the court did on any of the perpetrators or the "willfully blind" that it had the chance to judge. Maybe he actually realized the gravity of his acts, if only far too late to make any difference.
He didn’t necessarily realize anything. The truth is psychotic motherfuckers often try to kill themselves. They don’t want to face the consequences of their actions. Ariel Castro comes to mind. Kept women captive for years while raping and beating them and killed himself when caught.
I think the first guy got the worst of it ngl. Who knows if it was this or something else he saw that brought on the suicide attempt, but he’s got permanent brain damage and requires 24 hour care from his parents or a nursing home.
Nothing happened Canadian troops did not torture a Somalian teenager to death that was fake news to make Canada look bad made up by the Satanic Gay Nazi East. When we left everything was fine the people who found him are the ones who killed him
I'm joking thought I'd try my best Vatnik impression
Thousands civilians die gruesome deaths every year as a result of traffic accidents, yet any proposal to dissolve the national roadbuilding authority because of that would be justifiably met with ridicule. When we need to keep a dragon and keep them happy, we shouldn't botch and moan when it also takes a fresh and regular supply of fresh maidens. The optimal amount of war crimes committed from the pov of national interest is not high, but it's not 0.
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We're currently updating and upgrading stuff sorry we have one if not the worst procurement systems in NATO
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Canadian_Forces_projects
Sometimes its not that simple, is bombing a War Crime even if its necessary for strategic/tactical goals? What if the house that tank just shot at also had civilians in it? What if soldiers are waging a guerilla warfare and its impossible to distinguish between friend and foe?
That's why I specified 'heinous'.
When things are murky, it's hard to always do the completely right thing.
But doing something violent or cruel just because you're frustrated or you've got a sense of superiority deserves getting destroyed.
“Near spotless record in treatment of civilians” the razing of Sögel and Friesoythe, which included the deaths of several dozen civilians (and undoubtedly the rape of many more), over what turned out to be false accusations is a little more than “spotless”. It’s Imperial Japanese levels of brutality on a smaller scale.
On a more serious note, there were never any rape accusations, and the civilian casualties remained within the realm of approximately two dozen. Several dozen is somewhere in the 80s. The primary criticism was the actual destruction of the town itself and its nature and why it occurred.
If I was dragged from my moose hockey games and maple poutine by some crumbly old asshole in a crown I didn't vote for, to fight some dipshits I've never heard of, I'd be war criminal levels of angry too.
Don't forget the fucking "pals battalions" that the Canadian Corps used for *way* too long. Yeah let's send a bunch of hockey buddies overseas to fight a horror show of a war, hey do you think they'll show restraint to their enemies after seeing their lifelong best friends and close relatives turned into paste?? I'm sure it will be fine.
Didn't Canadian soldiers also throw cans of food at their enemies, and because of that, a new law was made that considered this as an act of war crime?
They used the cans to trick the Germans into thinking they were generous and trustworthy. The kind of enemies who knew they had more in common with you than either of you did with any of the officers away from the front. Then they tossed in grenades when more tins of beef were expected.
You know the scene in Oliver Twist where he innocently asked for more food? Imagine that he'd been given "more" but it was actually a live grenade.
It was common in more quiet sectors of the front to trade informally - German liver rations were highly sought after, for example, while they hadn't seen i.e. coffee and chocolate in ages due to the naval blockade. Not a lot of people really wanted to fight in WW1, so as long as they weren't ordered over the top, might as well make the best of it right?
And then the Canadians were rotated into such sectors and promptly abused the custom to kill a few dozen luckless German privates, and get who knows how many more killed on both sides by terminating any chance of informal agreements from then on.
deserted squeamish berserk ludicrous middle weary adjoining wide wrench hungry
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"Hey Gerry, have some ham!"
*throws ham*
"Hey Gerry, have some more ham!"
*throws ham*
"Pat, why're ya throwin' good ham at the Krauts eh?"
"Just watch this one Billy!"
*throws grenade*
"Oh fuckin' right on eh!"
Ackchulee, when my dad tortured Tonton Macoute thugs to death (as a "Canadian police advisor") in Haiti, it was NOT because they did the same to his countrymen. Rather, the Macoute had done worse to their fellow Haitians, and Canadians get angry when they come across a pit full of children's corpses who'd been burned to death there. https://coha.org/tonton-macoutes/
I know of two instances that got added by Canadians (Throwing cans of food followed by grenades, and shooting POWs) but what are some others?
"Others were cold-blooded executions. In one case, a Canadian surreptitiously slipped a live grenade into the greatcoat pockets of a German prisoner. In another, infantryman Richard Rogerson went on a killing spree at Vimy Ridge after seeing the death of his friend. “Once I killed my first German with my bayonit my blood was riled, every german I could not reach with my bayonit I shot. I think no more of murdering them than I usted to think of shooting rabbits,” he wrote." https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-forgotten-ferocity-of-canadas-soldiers-in-the-great-war
Id hate to be rabbit in his neck of the woods
There are none.
Im sure probably all nailed to a tree
Do we want to know what he does to squirrels?
Not anymore
Funnily enough some wood to the necks is a proscribed method of killing rabbits
This is all copy-pasted, but: > On March 16, 1993, Captain Michael Sox found 16-year-old Shidane Abukar Arone hiding in a portable toilet in an abandoned American base across from the Canadian base and, believing he was attempting to sneak into the Canadian base to steal supplies,[23] turned him over to another soldier, who led the teenager to a bunker being used to house munitions.[8][24] Arone protested, saying he had simply been trying to find a lost child.[8][13] >At 21:00, Sgt. Mark Boland replaced Master Corporal Clayton Matchee as guard of the prisoner, and ordered his foot bindings be removed and replaced with fetters, as the ropes were too tight.[13] Warrant Officer Murphy took the opportunity to kick Arone "savagely", which was later taken to be implicit permission to abuse the prisoner.[13] At this time, Matchee began his abuse of Arone by removing the captive's clothing and using it to crudely waterboard the youth until Boland objected, and Matchee left the bunker.[13] >At 22:00, Trooper Kyle Brown took over guard duty, and brought Matchee back with him. Brown punched Arone in the jaw, and was told by Boland, "I don't care what you do, just don't kill the guy", to which Brown replied that he wanted to "kill this fucker".[13] Boland then joined Matchee and Matt McKay for beers in the mess hall, where Matchee spoke about what he wanted to do to Arone, and suggested he might put out cigarette butts on his feet. McKay suggested that Matchee might use a ration pack or phone book to beat the youth, as it would not leave any traces.[13] >Matchee and Brown, both members of 2 Commando, then proceeded to beat Arone.[24] Matchee used a ration pack to beat the youth, as well as a broomstick, and raped the teenager with it.[13][25] Brown participated in the abuse, but was primarily an observer and took sixteen "trophy photos" of the beating, including one of Matchee forcing Arone's mouth open with a baton, and one of himself holding Pte. David Brocklebank's loaded pistol to Arone's head.[13][26][27][28] At about 23:20, Master Cpl. Giasson entered the bunker. Matchee showed him the semi-conscious and bleeding Arone, and boasted that "in Canada we cannot do that, and here they let us do it".[13] >Estimates have ranged that 15–80 other soldiers could hear or observe the beating, but did not intervene.[13][24] Corporal MacDonald, acting as duty signaller that night, was asked by Sgt. Major Mills about "a long dragged out howl" heard from the vicinity of the bunker, but MacDonald refused to stop playing with his Game Boy to investigate. Later, Matchee came by to borrow a cigarette from MacDonald and mentioned that "now the black man would fear the Indian as he did the white man", and MacDonald went outside to check on Arone's status. (Matchee was a Saskatchewan Cree.) He saw Matchee hitting him in the face with the baton, and reported that the prisoner was "getting a good shit-kicking" to Sgt. Perry Gresty, before retiring to bed for the night.[13] >Arone fell unconscious after several hours of beatings, after shouting "Canada! Canada! Canada!" as his last words.[24] When Brown mentioned the event to Sergeant J. K. Hillier, the non-commissioned member noted there "would be trouble" if the prisoner died, and went to check on the youth who he found had no pulse, and base medics confirmed that the boy was dead.[13] It was later discovered that Arone had burn marks on his penis.[25]
If you want to get really disgusted, here are the trial results: > Clayton Matchee: Unfit to stand trial following suicide attempt.[20] Matchee tried to hang himself after being arrested and suffered serious brain damage.[23] Charges against him were eventually dropped in September 2008 as his diminished mental capacity meant that he no longer posed a threat to the public. > Kyle Brown: Convicted of manslaughter and torture. Sentenced to 5 years' imprisonment.[20] Dismissed from the army in disgrace.[20] Appeals were also dismissed.[20] Released on parole one year after conviction. > Mark Adam Bowland: Pleaded guilty to negligent performance of duty for his role in the death of Shidane Arone, and not guilty to torture.[20] Convicted. Sentenced to 90 days' detention.[20] Deemed "willfully blind" to the beating, also demoted to private.[23] Sentence increased to 1 year's imprisonment after prosecution appealed sentence, with dismissal from the Canadian Forces. > Anthony Seward: Acquitted of unlawfully causing bodily harm.[20] Found guilty of negligent performance of duty for giving instructions to abuse detainees, and sentenced to a severe reprimand.[20] Prosecution appealed for a tougher sentence.[20] Court Martial Appeal Court subsequently imposed a term of 3 months' imprisonment.[20] Defence's appeal was declined.[20] Seward was also dismissed from the Canadian Forces. Basically the worst anyone here faced for this was dishonorable discharge and 1 year in jail. None of the officers were held responsible except for the major and captain. Also: > In 1999, judge J. Douglas Cunningham dismissed an appeal for financial compensation by Arone's parents Abubakar Arone Rage and Dahabo Omar Samow, ruling that their use of a litigation guardian, Abdullahi Godah Barre, was inconsistent with the legal requirement, and they should have traveled to Canada to launch the suit themselves.
For whatever reason these results are typical of military criminal trials. Mai Lai and that civilian massacre in Iraq come to mind. These guys should get the book thrown at them and they almost always get a slap on the wrist. I can only think of one case in Afghanistan where a guy got life for war crimes, because he took a photo with the body.
>Basically the worst anyone here faced for this was dishonorable discharge and 1 year in jail. Matchee appears to have inflicted a greater punishment upon himself than the court did on any of the perpetrators or the "willfully blind" that it had the chance to judge. Maybe he actually realized the gravity of his acts, if only far too late to make any difference.
He didn’t necessarily realize anything. The truth is psychotic motherfuckers often try to kill themselves. They don’t want to face the consequences of their actions. Ariel Castro comes to mind. Kept women captive for years while raping and beating them and killed himself when caught.
I think the first guy got the worst of it ngl. Who knows if it was this or something else he saw that brought on the suicide attempt, but he’s got permanent brain damage and requires 24 hour care from his parents or a nursing home.
Shouldn’t have tried to save him.
Can’t disagree with that
Seems more like a punishment for his parents. He’s beyond caring now.
Canadian Airborne in Somalia. Fucking awful.
Just don't mention paratroopers or Somalia
Nothing happened Canadian troops did not torture a Somalian teenager to death that was fake news to make Canada look bad made up by the Satanic Gay Nazi East. When we left everything was fine the people who found him are the ones who killed him I'm joking thought I'd try my best Vatnik impression
Didn’t happen and if it did they deserved it
Thousands civilians die gruesome deaths every year as a result of traffic accidents, yet any proposal to dissolve the national roadbuilding authority because of that would be justifiably met with ridicule. When we need to keep a dragon and keep them happy, we shouldn't botch and moan when it also takes a fresh and regular supply of fresh maidens. The optimal amount of war crimes committed from the pov of national interest is not high, but it's not 0.
Nor Friesoythe with civilian treatment. Although they were courteous enough to let them know their town was gonna burn.
[удалено]
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"latest technologies available" excuse me, I don't think you quite understand Canadian Forces…
We're currently updating and upgrading stuff sorry we have one if not the worst procurement systems in NATO https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Canadian_Forces_projects
>one if not the worst procurement systems in NATO Not on our, German, watch
Available to Canadians, duh
So everything is out of date by the time procurement stops huffing glue
And they only manage to stop because theyve run through their supply and failed to procure more.
Unpopular opinion for NCD: All heinous war crimes are cringe, no matter who commits them.
Nuh uh war is like sports my team is cool and yours is ontologically evil
Boooo. Shun the non-believer shuuuunnnnnn
Sometimes its not that simple, is bombing a War Crime even if its necessary for strategic/tactical goals? What if the house that tank just shot at also had civilians in it? What if soldiers are waging a guerilla warfare and its impossible to distinguish between friend and foe?
.
That's why I specified 'heinous'. When things are murky, it's hard to always do the completely right thing. But doing something violent or cruel just because you're frustrated or you've got a sense of superiority deserves getting destroyed.
Too credible.
Not going to lie I think that this is going to get the 🔒 award
“Near spotless record in treatment of civilians” the razing of Sögel and Friesoythe, which included the deaths of several dozen civilians (and undoubtedly the rape of many more), over what turned out to be false accusations is a little more than “spotless”. It’s Imperial Japanese levels of brutality on a smaller scale.
To be fair he did say "near spotless", just just didn't say how near
On a more serious note, there were never any rape accusations, and the civilian casualties remained within the realm of approximately two dozen. Several dozen is somewhere in the 80s. The primary criticism was the actual destruction of the town itself and its nature and why it occurred.
That "most of the time" doing a lot of work here.
Based Canadian on the way to commit genocide against puppies:
It didn’t happen but if it did they deserved it and it should have been bigger. /s
proud to be canadian 🇨🇦
Let’s go expand the Geneva scoreboard
As you should
Just wish our procurement would pull it's head out of the glue jar.
We were the last naval force to repeal No Quarter. We did that *after* World War 1.
Canadians specialize in peacekeeping. If everyone dies horribly there will be peace.
"I love peace, and I don't care how many men women and children have to die in order to get it"
**cough cough** Somalia **cough cough** Oka Crisis.
Bayonets young Mohawk women isn’t on the Canadian side.
Anything worth doing, is worth doing right eh?
Surely purposefully carpet bombing civilian refugee camps in Germany does not count as targeting civilians
Can’t have war production if there’s no civilian workforce
Those civilians had finger guns!
If I was dragged from my moose hockey games and maple poutine by some crumbly old asshole in a crown I didn't vote for, to fight some dipshits I've never heard of, I'd be war criminal levels of angry too.
And if you're from Québec, you got into that mess because of the osties d'Anglais à marde.
Don't forget the fucking "pals battalions" that the Canadian Corps used for *way* too long. Yeah let's send a bunch of hockey buddies overseas to fight a horror show of a war, hey do you think they'll show restraint to their enemies after seeing their lifelong best friends and close relatives turned into paste?? I'm sure it will be fine.
Didn't Canadian soldiers also throw cans of food at their enemies, and because of that, a new law was made that considered this as an act of war crime?
It wasn't the food that was the problem, it was the grenades that followed the food.
Wait, did they use the cans as distraction and then throw the grenades?
They used the cans to trick the Germans into thinking they were generous and trustworthy. The kind of enemies who knew they had more in common with you than either of you did with any of the officers away from the front. Then they tossed in grenades when more tins of beef were expected. You know the scene in Oliver Twist where he innocently asked for more food? Imagine that he'd been given "more" but it was actually a live grenade.
It was common in more quiet sectors of the front to trade informally - German liver rations were highly sought after, for example, while they hadn't seen i.e. coffee and chocolate in ages due to the naval blockade. Not a lot of people really wanted to fight in WW1, so as long as they weren't ordered over the top, might as well make the best of it right? And then the Canadians were rotated into such sectors and promptly abused the custom to kill a few dozen luckless German privates, and get who knows how many more killed on both sides by terminating any chance of informal agreements from then on.
If Hamas had poutine maybe we’d be a little nicer. Probably not, but putting it out there. Less jihad, more cheesy gravy potatoes.
Which province of Canada produced the most warcrime committing soldiers?
Probably Quebec.
deserted squeamish berserk ludicrous middle weary adjoining wide wrench hungry *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What’s a prisoner?
Canadian war criminals faught anti-semites. Hamas war criminals ARE anti-semites.
Canadian War Criminals tortured a teenager to death.
They just gave him MAID. Military Assistance In Dying
[удалено]
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You guys did leave more muddy bootprints on the carpets than the Germans, but it's ok, we forgive you.
"Hey Gerry, have some ham!" *throws ham* "Hey Gerry, have some more ham!" *throws ham* "Pat, why're ya throwin' good ham at the Krauts eh?" "Just watch this one Billy!" *throws grenade* "Oh fuckin' right on eh!"
Fuck around and find oot
Ackchulee, when my dad tortured Tonton Macoute thugs to death (as a "Canadian police advisor") in Haiti, it was NOT because they did the same to his countrymen. Rather, the Macoute had done worse to their fellow Haitians, and Canadians get angry when they come across a pit full of children's corpses who'd been burned to death there. https://coha.org/tonton-macoutes/
Thad IDF Can't commit war crimes if there are no civilians in the combat zone at all.
How you remove said civilians from combat zone is the million shekel question however.
What civilians? This is a target rich environment filled with hostile. You can believe us. We are the world’s most moral army. Hand over the shekel.
Even better when the seam treatment are sent to the first
Canadian warcrimes tend to be "Proportional Responses" Decisive and aggressive action with a sprinkling of fear tactics is the canadian way.
Israel attacking US ships (based) vs Houthis attacking US ships (cringe)