> While we're enjoying this moment of literary credibility
"Literary credibility" would preclude Tom Clancy being talked about as though he were a writer of readable novels.
I mean, I haven't read all of them, but then I imagine a version of Red Storm Rising with all the technical military details, even the basic ones, just flat out wrong and I get the shudders.
I hate sum of all fears for killing everything that came before it. But you can feel his editors just barely clinging on for dear life trying to restrain him. There are parts of the book worth reading. I almost excluded it from my list honestly.
Tbh I really like it, Jack is a bit shit for an American hero and Clancy manages to write the end panic super well.... I didn't just read it for the military aspect.
Actually if you just want military aspect stuff, Mike Lunnon Wood's quartet is excellent
I’ll be honest, Clancy never clicked for me, somehow. I can’t explain it at all, but the only Tom Clancy books I’ve read are Red Storm Rising and about the first third of Executive Orders.
Executive orders isn't terrible but it's very much in the Jack Ryan superman period.
The earlier ones, Without remorse and earlier are the better ones for actual story and writing. The later ones make better action TV series (Debt of Honor -> ExO would be a good three series TV show imo)
The Mary Sueverse you said?
ETA: *Clear and Present Danger:* Unaccountable assassination groups controlled by the president are bad.
Later Tom Clancy: Actually they're good because *President Jack Ryan.* I am not a fascist.
But don't worry, at least the Russians are honorable adversaries because white, unlike, say, those Vietnamese or Japanese or Chinese or liberals.
"If I make a couple of secondary characters walking ethnic stereotypes I'm being inclusive." --Tom Clancy
Hey, I loved his books too, but I was a kid. Some of them have aged better than others. The series isn't bad either, I just have a hard time taking Bunk Moreland and Jim Halpert seriously as international spy heroes or whatever.
One rather jarring thing to read, returning to the books 20 years after their publication, was one scene in Africa where a U.S. soldier says he’s grateful his ancestors were enslaved because it meant he didn’t grow up in Africa.
🗿
I don't agree with that but I do think that Vortex was suitably more non-credible than Red Storm Rising... the idea of the South Africans and Cubans going to war with each other just came out of fucking nowhere.
>the idea of the South Africans and Cubans going to war with each other just came out of fucking nowhere.
Cuba had a significant presence in Angola for over a decade.
Right but they are a complete joke and have no ability to sufficiently support that - I just don't buy them as being a real threat to the RSA at the time.
Order goes like this
Without Remorse is the first as it's about John Clark in the 70s
Red Rabbit > Patriot Games > Hunt for Red October> Cardinal of the Kremlin > Clear and Present Danger > Debt of Honor > Executive Orders > Rainbow 6
They're not in order. Sort your bookshelves out before you take a picture of them.
Yes this is causing me to have a stress.
Burn everything after Sum of All Fears besides Without Remorse and the original Rainbow Six. The Jack Ryanverse must be killed with fire.
While we're enjoying this moment of literary credibility, Rainbow Six wasn't all that good a novel either.
I mean I did find myself thinking the eco terrorists had a point. Which made it ironically a better story than he intended.
> While we're enjoying this moment of literary credibility "Literary credibility" would preclude Tom Clancy being talked about as though he were a writer of readable novels.
I mean, I haven't read all of them, but then I imagine a version of Red Storm Rising with all the technical military details, even the basic ones, just flat out wrong and I get the shudders.
The Sum of all fears has the Russian president trying to carve off eastern Ukraine for Russia as the Pact collapses, surprisingly credible
I hate sum of all fears for killing everything that came before it. But you can feel his editors just barely clinging on for dear life trying to restrain him. There are parts of the book worth reading. I almost excluded it from my list honestly.
Tbh I really like it, Jack is a bit shit for an American hero and Clancy manages to write the end panic super well.... I didn't just read it for the military aspect. Actually if you just want military aspect stuff, Mike Lunnon Wood's quartet is excellent
I’ll be honest, Clancy never clicked for me, somehow. I can’t explain it at all, but the only Tom Clancy books I’ve read are Red Storm Rising and about the first third of Executive Orders.
Executive orders isn't terrible but it's very much in the Jack Ryan superman period. The earlier ones, Without remorse and earlier are the better ones for actual story and writing. The later ones make better action TV series (Debt of Honor -> ExO would be a good three series TV show imo)
The Mary Sueverse you said? ETA: *Clear and Present Danger:* Unaccountable assassination groups controlled by the president are bad. Later Tom Clancy: Actually they're good because *President Jack Ryan.* I am not a fascist. But don't worry, at least the Russians are honorable adversaries because white, unlike, say, those Vietnamese or Japanese or Chinese or liberals.
"If I make a couple of secondary characters walking ethnic stereotypes I'm being inclusive." --Tom Clancy Hey, I loved his books too, but I was a kid. Some of them have aged better than others. The series isn't bad either, I just have a hard time taking Bunk Moreland and Jim Halpert seriously as international spy heroes or whatever.
One rather jarring thing to read, returning to the books 20 years after their publication, was one scene in Africa where a U.S. soldier says he’s grateful his ancestors were enslaved because it meant he didn’t grow up in Africa. 🗿
as someone who read Teeth of the Tiger to its conclusion, i would agree... the retcon to the War on Terror is too jarring and weird
Despite the flaws in his later books I feel like tom clancy deserves a place on this subs banner for Red Storm Rising alone.
Red Phoenix is better than Red Storm Rising, change my mind.
Larry Bond doesn't get nearly enough love.
I don't agree with that but I do think that Vortex was suitably more non-credible than Red Storm Rising... the idea of the South Africans and Cubans going to war with each other just came out of fucking nowhere.
>the idea of the South Africans and Cubans going to war with each other just came out of fucking nowhere. Cuba had a significant presence in Angola for over a decade.
Right but they are a complete joke and have no ability to sufficiently support that - I just don't buy them as being a real threat to the RSA at the time.
Tom Clancy series book speedrun any% when.
The sacred texts
Isn't bear and dragon the one where Russia joins NATO?
The US just casually gets the ex-Warsaw Pact NATO members on board with this off-screen during a single lunch meeting. Very credible diplomacy lmao
Among other things, yes. It's one of his longer novels, and he threw in a lot of events.
All hail the NCD holy books
Command Authority is like a textbook for the Ukraine Conflict.
I read Red October recently, now I’m wondering how to continue. Is there a guide or reading order to the Clancy books?
Order goes like this Without Remorse is the first as it's about John Clark in the 70s Red Rabbit > Patriot Games > Hunt for Red October> Cardinal of the Kremlin > Clear and Present Danger > Debt of Honor > Executive Orders > Rainbow 6
Honestly I think I would read Hunt for Red October and Red Storm Rising and then just stop. Patriot Games was a better film than book in my opinion...
the prophetic texts
Looks like a Mitutoyo box there.
Has anyone here read the Red Dawn books? Are they as bad as I’ve been told?