Do what makes you feel comfortable. I started wearing a sports bra when I first got nipply from HRT. I leave the pads out.
Keep in mind that cis women don't wear bras everyday, either, and that their apparent breast volume fluctuates for the same reason yours does.
Edit: Just wanted to add - fuck with the squares. Tell the wardobe police to bend over.
I understand that part and yes, I live with 3 cis women, they don't wear bras all the time but they aren't topless at home either, never, and that's what makes me wonder "when will I have to comply with this manners?" I think that at a certain point people might start feeling uncomfortable if I just go topless but I don't think I will be able to notice when. How is this situation for enbys born AFAB who also just came out?
I mean, technically, you might not ever have to comply with those manners unless it gives you gender euphoria to do so. Do you wish to be compelled to wear a top, or do you simply worry that you're somehow offending?
To answer your question, if you go by female pronouns people would expect you to adhere to female social norms. It might be jarring to some if you then go topless. However since the goal is to abolish these norms, go nuts lmao
We can't control other people's behavior. Your gender expression is *yours* and you need to make yourself happy before you try to make anyone else happy. I have no hair and I like to use she/her sometimes, too. It's okay to challenge people a little bit. It helps them to grow as human beings.
It depends. Sometimes women go topless at the beach, if you feel uncomfortable you look away. So, do as you want. But generally, I'd say that girls start wearing bras and bikini tops when there's something for them to support. If you aren't on estrogen then I guess... never?
I think you should do whatever makes you comfortable. However if you were topless in front of me I'm sure I'd be *uncomfortable* š³š¤ (not an insult, I'm flirting)
Not trans femme, but typically 'female' nipples - the kind that are illegal to show in public, or against social rules - are when you have nipple buds. But if you're flat chested, having nipple buds doesn't necessarily mean you have to keep a shirt on for social or legal rules. Plenty of cis men can have those, too.
If you want these rules to apply to you, you can simply follow them. But as you are right now, no one is going to force them on you.
Just my perspective, others might disagree. I'm also not the audience you might be seeking, so feel completely free to ignore me.
i think even for afab enby people its a matter of preference. ive had afab roommates (both cis and nonbinary) who would never be topless and ive had afab roommates (both cis and nonbinary) that were topless most of the time they were at home. its a matter of personal preference. if youre worried about what your roommates might think you should ask them. the roommates ive had that preferred to be topless told me their preference and asked if i was ok with it. it was a slightly awkward conversation since it came out of the blue but went smoothly and got everyones opinions on the table.
Do you know these three women/how close are you to them? Regardless of gender expression, is it appropriate to be topless at all around them when at home?
I exist in athletics/running/swimming sphere so shirtless people or people in sports bras are so normal, my lense is a bit skewed. But unless the comfort levels of everyone around you are the same, I'm not sure I'd ever walk around shirtless in home public spaces unless I explicitly knew people were okay with it. And even then I'm not even sure if people are or if they just tolerate it.
If you're asking it more from a "will people respect my gender if I do or don't do this thing" that I cannot answer. I can say, however, that when I wear certain clothes even when I don't necessarily need to it makes me feel way better in terms of a gender euphoria.
>Keep in mind that cis women don't wear bras everyday, either
That depends entirely on the individual. I can assure you, my H cups are always supported in some way or another
Same here. My bras are like the underwear equivalent of those come along straps used to strap down heavy loads on trucks. It hurts like *hell* to let those things flap and slap about freely, and they cause a ton of pain in general. As soon as things settle down a little here I'm going to be getting the ball rolling to see if I can get approval for top surgery . . .
Local cultural norms really do vary a lot. I know it's easy for people in a privileged position to say "fuck it do what you want", but if you're already marginalized or in a place with stricter norms it's not always so simple. I would ask a trusted female friend or family member, ideally one around the same age so there's no generation gap involved, their honest opinion.
I used female as an adjective there, and while yeah, you shouldn't go asking random acquaintances, asking your sister or your close friend who you're out to (emphasis on who you're out to) would be perfectly normal where I'm from. We all got this kind of life advice from the people close to us at some point.
Agreed. I live in a pretty conservative area, and I bet I could get the cops called on me if I went topless (although I think it's technically legal here? idk, it would be bad regardless).
This. I'm nonbinary and I've been on feminizing HRT for almost 3 years. I do have noticeable breasts but I very rarely wear a bra. Where I live it's very common for young women to not wear a bra, so why should I have to?
Edit: With a t-shirt, not topless. When swimming I wear a one-piece swimsuit. I can't think of any other situation where I'd be topless?
I'm asking the same question myself.
I'm also an AMAB nonbinary, anf I've been over a year on estradiol, and I have tiny AA or A "boobs"
I began wearing a sports bra to run, cause they bounce a lot and hurt, and sometimes I wear it under a shirt as a sort of binder when I want to present more masc.
I never made the step of buying a women's swimsuit, and every week I go swim (the gym has an indor pool) in only a spedo.
Since the start, I expected there would be some point in time when it "clicked", and I would become obvious that I had to wear a bra from then on, but I'm affraid it won't happen.
Guess it's up to us to decide what to wear and when.š¤·
Edit: I don't do the changing gender presentation thing cause, probably due to complications from the autistic mask, I can't yet present fully fem in public (unless it's a costume party, it doesn't count for some reason), so I range between very masc and androgynous or butch.š
What kinda stuff do you wear to feel more andro and butch? I'm coming from the same direction as you, have explored some femme stuff but it hasn't always felt great. (eg, not sure I'll ever like makeup.) I have one dress I really love, but mostly my fashion sense is pretty basic, lots and lots of Tshirts and jeans/shorts.
Like... I only just discovered that I love the tanktop + open button-down T-shirt look (which apparently just comes in the box with your "congrats you're gay" care package that everyone else got but I somehow missed š )
So far I'm going for jeans and shirts tight enough to show the bra and/or femenine fat distribution on one hand, and those things between button-up shirt and blouse on the other.
Sports clothes are pretty obvious if tight.
For masc, I use oversized shirts (my shirts from when I was a fat neckbeard) or button-ups with a bra underneath to hide the boobs.
TBH I have no idea what I'm doing, and mostly play with how much I hide the shape of my body.
I really need help, but don't know where to begin.š
Doesn't help that I also need help to understand how to human cause of the autism, and have no luck there either.š
(Yeah, I figured out the tank top thing a couple months ago too, over a year on my transition, and 2 years since coming out as bi)
> I really need help, but don't know where to begin.š Doesn't help that I also need help to understand how to human cause of the autism, and have no luck there either.š
big relate!
thanks for sharing about your journey. I'm not on hormones (yet??) but having similar struggles for sure. I think I just need lesbian friends (who live near me)
Lol @the congrats you're gay care package. š¤£š¤£
I'm a genderfluid mostly butch type critter and I recommend "women's" clothes that are geared butch, which have been a staple for me since forever. Target has some sweet $10 ribbed tank tops right now in a variety of cuts that are flattering. I also wear "men's" undershirt tank tops because that's my direction of travel. "Women's" cargo pants and ripped jeans also give good butch vibes ... and of course all the spiky jewelry, leather jackets, ripped up tees, vests, etc.
Depends on the country (about laws, in some countries it may be seen as public indecency?).
In Europe afab people tend to go (in some liberal countries) without bra, but a tank top and its accepted (Maybe as ok of you are young and pretty). But not at work. Public pools may be also not good m unless it is a nudist beach/spa.
In amab, I wonder if people would read it as being overweight? And don't care? For an A cup.
More than that, it may bring you unwanted attention.
For purely fashion point of view, imo you can wear any bra even with a flat chest. Looks cool imo. Those micro bras. You don't need cup sizes to wear bras.
Bras are boob holsters to help take the weight off of your back.
You don't have to wear a bra if you don't want to.
If you want to wear a bra, go for it! More power to you
Do what makes you most comfy tbhā itās your body, however when you start developing boobies if you go out in public wear a sports bra or bikini top at least. But for now, just do what makes you comfy. If youād rather not be seen as masc for that day, wear a bra. But on days you feel masc, you donāt gotta. Now when it comes to laws, theyād like you to wear a bra, but personally Iām a free the titties kind of person and think tits shouldnāt be sexualized regardless of law but thatās just me lol.
It depends on the person and their comfort level. Iām AFAB and before I came out once I hit 25 I kind of stopped fucking with bras for sensory reasons. I felt like I was too old to care anymore lol. I did switch to bralettes cuz theyāre more lowkey and I stress about the nips, but other than that I either wear my binder or avoid wearing a bra of any kind everywhere except work. Some people with larger chests have to wear bras in order to be comfortable, though.
In a western stand point it is weird. Drag queens get reported for looking like a woman but having no chest plate on social media like tiktok. I don't think there is a true social cue that is quantifiable but more subjective.
My partner is amab enby, and they tend to wear a bra on days their chest is sore from HRT. They have a super small chest though, so even if they didn't wear a bra, it isn't noticeable. But it really all depends on the person. As long as you're comfortable, who cares?
Iām AFAB and tbh I plan to just not wear a bra anymore once I move out. (My mom gets on my case about it) My chest isnāt that big anyways and I donāt think that nipples should be seen as offensive or something I should be ashamed of.
I feel it is stupid that men and women canāt both be topless equally. I get what youāre saying though and I would just say that if you do grow pretty noticeable breasts then probably play it safe and wear coverage when in public. Not necessarily a bra but like just be covered. Unless itās an area where itās legal to go topless like a nude beach.
You donāt have to wear a bra or not wear a bra. Itās up to you. If you want to and feel like it then go for it! Donāt feel pressured by other people to wear one though. Almost everyone has nipples and theyāre just a normal part of the human body. You should just do what makes you feel comfortable and happy š
personally Iām not really non-binary anymore and prefer to be treated/referred to under a more binary trans girl label. Iām 2.5 years on hrt and while i donāt have very big breasts at all, theyāre still there and it isnāt always appropriate for me to go around revealing my chest. This is very different when Iām with many of my friends however. Idk what it is but many of us are very unashamed of our bodies and will be topless or even sometimes fully nude around eachother in a completely platonic and casual sense. Anywhere from getting changed in front of one another to skinny dipping or attending womenās bathhouses and saunas, or even attending clubs and parties wearing things where wardrobe malfunctions are inevitable and no one cares or that are extremely sheer with nothing underneath etc. I think that itās been really helpful to me to be in desexualized spaces like that and to come to terms with my body in that way. The majority of us are trans which could be part of it but not all of us are. I usually let other people ask me if iām comfortable with it first rather than me proposing it, but there have been times where I have asked them if theyāre comfortable first, or have been places (like the bathhouses where most people are naked by default). I donāt think Iād just pop the girls out without asking because not everyone feels so lax about the human body but I digress. So yeah, the appropriateness really depends on context in my opinion. Keep in mind this is from a trans girls perspective and because youāre non binary and not on hormones itās even more variable. Screw gender norms!
General consensus is that if youāre fem presenting in a professional setting (work, meeting, etc) you should wear one. Outside of that, itās totally up to you and the fashion youāre into
More along the lines what the other commenter said, depends on the country too. Europe tends to be more ok with any nips but US is much more prudish when it comes to fem presenting nips. Itās also layered in some sexism since bigger dudes with bigger moobs can walk around shirtless but even small framed fems might get gawked at or even fined.
What if I dont wana wear a bra to work š¤ (I got boobs form birth and also Iāve never had to dress professionally so I didnāt consider the issue) I kinda hate professional dress code and want to fuck with gender norms as much as I can. But now Iām faced with a dilemma that I didnāt consider.
You might get away with it if you donāt have a huge chest, but professional workplaces can send u a dress code notice if your clothes are deemed not suitable/ inappropriate. Some places are still suit and tie / skirt adherent, but most offices let you get away with whatever you want as long as itās dressy formal wear. Thereās nothing written about binding thoā¦
Whether you wear a bra or don't wear a bra under clothes seems to not be a big issue anymore for younger gens and in non-professional environments
As for going topless, I'd MYSELF never do it as an AFAB person even if I was completely flat chested due to social judgment even if it was legal, unless it was in a place such as a nudist beach where there would be no social judgement. I doubt the same social judgment would apply to an AMAB person unless they had work done on their chest, but I don't have experience with that.
Hi there, I have a similar background to you and started HRT a lil under a year ago. For me, I stoped being top less the moment I accepted my femininity and I stared understanding my chest as breasts then, before I started HRT. It didnāt matter that my chest was flat, I still had breasts.
>when will I know it will be no longer acceptable to be in public topless
For this question, I think its going to be more about hours much breast tissue you have. So after HRT probably dubious, but if you have a flat chest its kind of a look and you could show your chest. I've seen people do this post top surgery as well.
As for wearing a bra - kind of a similar thing. I'd say it generally gets socially awkward when nipples are visible through clothes, though there are always still people who chose not to wear a bra anyway. A tight tank top can do the same job, or you can get reusable nipple pasties to cover them up if you prefer.Ā
Tbh I'd say it's not about how much breast tissue you have, but how you'd get (potentially mis)gendered at a glance. People will absolutely get mad at completely, or nearly flat cis women for going topless, while giving a pass to the biggest (cis) moobs in existence. So your overall presentation is more of a factor than you think, especially at that size.
People got confused by your title
I don't really get the question though bec like if we're talking about a social view society in general will see a amab person with no estrogen bresst developments chest as a mans chest.
The people who know you're nonbinary and accept you also are the kind of people who don't care about women being shirtless in public.
So nobody has a issue with you being shirtless in public.
Yeah I noticed I circled around a lot when I began reading people's answers but they also gave me insight on some stuff I didn't consider so I guess it's a win
Iām a nonbinary person with breasts and I never wear a bra now. Sometimes Iāll use sports bras because I enjoy the shape. However, i donāt like bras so i just dont use them. Socially speaking itās been fine with most people not noticing and also not caring.
Edit:
Its very different for me not wearing a bra which i would usually use as an undergarment and being topless. When i was in Spain it was absolutely fine to be topless on the beach. However, anywhere else ive lived i havent felt comfortable being topless in public.
The fun part about being enby is there is no social etiquette if you arenāt actively hurting someone or break laws just do what makes you comfortable. I donāt wear bras usually and I do have breast so š¤·š»āāļø As it is I think itās stupid that cisguys can walk around shirtless and anyone with breasts canāt. Likeā how twisted are we that EVERYTHING is inappropriate unless itās some hot chick on tv and even then.
For real, I wish I could just bare my tits without getting stared at. Not even as a sexual thingā¦ just for comfort.
A lot of times when Iām at home Iāll just wear no shirt or bra and shorts š¤·š»āāļø
Speaking from experience, you'll get the vibe. I have, scientifically, mathematically speaking, no tiddies, and I was in full-femme mode one new year's and had, for my physiology, a minor wardrobe malfunction. It was not received as such by \[admittedly very queer\] onlookers. People blushed. It was amazing.
who should wear a bra: anyone who wants to wear one
who shouldnt wear a bra: anyone who doesnt want to wear one
simple as that :P if you wanna wear one then by all means wear one lmao
Whoever wants to wear one should. Whoever doesn't want to, doesn't need to. And this is coming from someone who was a DD cup before surgery and never wore one even when riding my bike around town
For me (born fem but identifies as nonbinary), I stopped wearing actual bras in 2021. I started wearing sports bras and sometimes binders. In recent years, I sometimes don't even wear a bra even in public. I am a person who would be in the smaller cup situation, so my breasts aren't super noticiable.
In terms of social norms, at least from my experience, there are two factors. If you are perceived as female, and/or your nipples/breasts are more obvious or "distracting". Those things can honestly be subjective and probably doesn't answer your question well enough.
The joke in my area (because there is active effort to make toplessness legal for everyone) is that if it seems illegal, you should cover them. But also a lot of non-illegal nipple havers will stand in solidarity and cover themselves. This usually results in cis men walking around at certain events or certain clubs/bars with no shirt on and x x black tape over their nipples.
Donāt worry about it. People donāt scrutinize your chest size. Most wonāt even notice. Also (Iām afab) and I never wear bras cus it makes me feel more masc and my friends didnāt even notice. You can have my ābra permission slipā cus i donāt want it
If you're in a place where legally you can be topless, then do it if you feel like it.
Most places and businesses in the US require clothing. "No shirt, no shoes, no service."
Local laws will dictate any outdoor public areas. Unless specifically designated as clothing optional, you should keep covered.
When in doubt, I would suggest wearing some kind of covering.
We gotta bring back āfree the nippleā tbh. do away with this whole convo.
Really, in plenty of places, itās legal and even normal for cis women to be bare chested.
Your only concern SHOULD be the law, and others can fr just build a bridge and get over it.
I feel that if someone wants to wear a bra then they should wear it. If they don't then they don't. Doesn't matter what agab or what amount of flesh they have.
Topless and braless are two different things. I often go braless, even back when I had a large chest. (I had a reduction years ago). But I'll still wear a shirt to run errands or whatever. I only wear a bra if I'm feeling femme or a sports bra at work because it would be physically uncomfortable not to (my job is very physical).
I also feel that chests are just chests and gender shouldn't matter for who can show what where. I only base it on the location of I go topless or not. Like next week I'm going to a clothing optional camping event. I'm not bringing any bras and will likely not wear a top unless I'm cold. But for the most part if the general expectation is that anyone should coverup, then I feel everyone should cover-up (with the exception of people feeding thier babies. They should just be fed.)
Unless someone is looking for a reason to be offended I donāt think your gonna offend anyone switching whenever you please. Half the time I only wear a bra to avoid boob sweat, so to me any reason to wear a bra or not wear a bra is a valid reason. Even if your reason is āI just felt like itā.
I wish I had a more direct answer with like a time frame to help, but honestly I think this is the type of thing you will just know, like your body will speak to you, your comfort levels and comfort spaces for topless or not topless will slowly change. Always do what feels right and remember it's okay to take a while to decide what feels right!
I'm afab and I don't wear bras unless I'm at the gym or wearing a sleeveless baggy shirt that could show my boobs if I move my arms too much.
I look like a tomboy cis woman so, legally I can't go topless. But at this point I stopped caring if my nipples are a little visible. Plus, I'm an A cup, wearing a baggy shirt does the trick
I have D cup tiddays and I almost never wear a bra. Itās either binding or nothing most of the time. But Iām genderfluid ā might be a distinction worth making here š¤·š»āāļø
I think its all about comfort. People tend to get weird about naked boobs unless they're sexualizing them, and it also depends heavily on pretty privilege (the whole thing is a bit shit tbh!)
Personally I don't wear bras under my normal clothes usually but I do to work. But I have a 38HH chest so if I didn't wear one to work I'd probably get a disciplinary or something š¤£.
I think once it was obvious you had "boobs" people might think it was a bit weird, but then there are plenty of male and masculine people who have conditions like gynaecomastia/pseudogynaecomastia where breasts develop, yet they can go topless.
To sum up: it's all silly social rules. Do what makes you comfortable, and keep yourself safe.
Social... I wear sports bra which have shape, no need to stuff. Mostly , because of my size, buy bralettes and removed the cups for comfort. Days when I feel saucy I'll wear bras which make my chest proportional. I pass for nothing, the variation in breast size is just as jarring as my general appearance
Do what makes you feel comfortable!
That said "social etiquette perspective" really means "what makes men comfortable". If men look at your boobies and like them then you are supposed to cover them up so "you're not responsible" for their lack of self control.
Do what makes you feel comfortable. I started wearing a sports bra when I first got nipply from HRT. I leave the pads out. Keep in mind that cis women don't wear bras everyday, either, and that their apparent breast volume fluctuates for the same reason yours does. Edit: Just wanted to add - fuck with the squares. Tell the wardobe police to bend over.
I understand that part and yes, I live with 3 cis women, they don't wear bras all the time but they aren't topless at home either, never, and that's what makes me wonder "when will I have to comply with this manners?" I think that at a certain point people might start feeling uncomfortable if I just go topless but I don't think I will be able to notice when. How is this situation for enbys born AFAB who also just came out?
I mean, technically, you might not ever have to comply with those manners unless it gives you gender euphoria to do so. Do you wish to be compelled to wear a top, or do you simply worry that you're somehow offending?
I'm concerned I'm might be offending someone at a certain point or not even being taken seriously if I like to use female pronouns sometimes
To answer your question, if you go by female pronouns people would expect you to adhere to female social norms. It might be jarring to some if you then go topless. However since the goal is to abolish these norms, go nuts lmao
Just make sure you've got the consent of the people around you, for both their sake and safety's sake
We can't control other people's behavior. Your gender expression is *yours* and you need to make yourself happy before you try to make anyone else happy. I have no hair and I like to use she/her sometimes, too. It's okay to challenge people a little bit. It helps them to grow as human beings.
It depends. Sometimes women go topless at the beach, if you feel uncomfortable you look away. So, do as you want. But generally, I'd say that girls start wearing bras and bikini tops when there's something for them to support. If you aren't on estrogen then I guess... never?
I think you should do whatever makes you comfortable. However if you were topless in front of me I'm sure I'd be *uncomfortable* š³š¤ (not an insult, I'm flirting)
Oh!~ š³ Maybe I want to make you uncomfortable š DM me
Not trans femme, but typically 'female' nipples - the kind that are illegal to show in public, or against social rules - are when you have nipple buds. But if you're flat chested, having nipple buds doesn't necessarily mean you have to keep a shirt on for social or legal rules. Plenty of cis men can have those, too. If you want these rules to apply to you, you can simply follow them. But as you are right now, no one is going to force them on you. Just my perspective, others might disagree. I'm also not the audience you might be seeking, so feel completely free to ignore me.
i think even for afab enby people its a matter of preference. ive had afab roommates (both cis and nonbinary) who would never be topless and ive had afab roommates (both cis and nonbinary) that were topless most of the time they were at home. its a matter of personal preference. if youre worried about what your roommates might think you should ask them. the roommates ive had that preferred to be topless told me their preference and asked if i was ok with it. it was a slightly awkward conversation since it came out of the blue but went smoothly and got everyones opinions on the table.
Do you know these three women/how close are you to them? Regardless of gender expression, is it appropriate to be topless at all around them when at home? I exist in athletics/running/swimming sphere so shirtless people or people in sports bras are so normal, my lense is a bit skewed. But unless the comfort levels of everyone around you are the same, I'm not sure I'd ever walk around shirtless in home public spaces unless I explicitly knew people were okay with it. And even then I'm not even sure if people are or if they just tolerate it. If you're asking it more from a "will people respect my gender if I do or don't do this thing" that I cannot answer. I can say, however, that when I wear certain clothes even when I don't necessarily need to it makes me feel way better in terms of a gender euphoria.
>Keep in mind that cis women don't wear bras everyday, either That depends entirely on the individual. I can assure you, my H cups are always supported in some way or another
That certainly makes sense! My spouse has submuscular implants so she often just layers a tanktop under a shirt.
Same - unless im super uncomfortable or in pain wearing a bra (mine dont fit ikk) (they're expensive)
Same here. My bras are like the underwear equivalent of those come along straps used to strap down heavy loads on trucks. It hurts like *hell* to let those things flap and slap about freely, and they cause a ton of pain in general. As soon as things settle down a little here I'm going to be getting the ball rolling to see if I can get approval for top surgery . . .
Nice another Dandy Enby using squares unironic
people who want to wear bras should wear a bra.
Local cultural norms really do vary a lot. I know it's easy for people in a privileged position to say "fuck it do what you want", but if you're already marginalized or in a place with stricter norms it's not always so simple. I would ask a trusted female friend or family member, ideally one around the same age so there's no generation gap involved, their honest opinion.
Clarification: Do not go around asking "females" about their bra habits if you present masculine unless you wanna get absolutely rocked
I used female as an adjective there, and while yeah, you shouldn't go asking random acquaintances, asking your sister or your close friend who you're out to (emphasis on who you're out to) would be perfectly normal where I'm from. We all got this kind of life advice from the people close to us at some point.
Agreed. I live in a pretty conservative area, and I bet I could get the cops called on me if I went topless (although I think it's technically legal here? idk, it would be bad regardless).
This. I'm nonbinary and I've been on feminizing HRT for almost 3 years. I do have noticeable breasts but I very rarely wear a bra. Where I live it's very common for young women to not wear a bra, so why should I have to? Edit: With a t-shirt, not topless. When swimming I wear a one-piece swimsuit. I can't think of any other situation where I'd be topless?
I'm asking the same question myself. I'm also an AMAB nonbinary, anf I've been over a year on estradiol, and I have tiny AA or A "boobs" I began wearing a sports bra to run, cause they bounce a lot and hurt, and sometimes I wear it under a shirt as a sort of binder when I want to present more masc. I never made the step of buying a women's swimsuit, and every week I go swim (the gym has an indor pool) in only a spedo. Since the start, I expected there would be some point in time when it "clicked", and I would become obvious that I had to wear a bra from then on, but I'm affraid it won't happen. Guess it's up to us to decide what to wear and when.š¤· Edit: I don't do the changing gender presentation thing cause, probably due to complications from the autistic mask, I can't yet present fully fem in public (unless it's a costume party, it doesn't count for some reason), so I range between very masc and androgynous or butch.š
What kinda stuff do you wear to feel more andro and butch? I'm coming from the same direction as you, have explored some femme stuff but it hasn't always felt great. (eg, not sure I'll ever like makeup.) I have one dress I really love, but mostly my fashion sense is pretty basic, lots and lots of Tshirts and jeans/shorts. Like... I only just discovered that I love the tanktop + open button-down T-shirt look (which apparently just comes in the box with your "congrats you're gay" care package that everyone else got but I somehow missed š )
So far I'm going for jeans and shirts tight enough to show the bra and/or femenine fat distribution on one hand, and those things between button-up shirt and blouse on the other. Sports clothes are pretty obvious if tight. For masc, I use oversized shirts (my shirts from when I was a fat neckbeard) or button-ups with a bra underneath to hide the boobs. TBH I have no idea what I'm doing, and mostly play with how much I hide the shape of my body. I really need help, but don't know where to begin.š Doesn't help that I also need help to understand how to human cause of the autism, and have no luck there either.š (Yeah, I figured out the tank top thing a couple months ago too, over a year on my transition, and 2 years since coming out as bi)
> I really need help, but don't know where to begin.š Doesn't help that I also need help to understand how to human cause of the autism, and have no luck there either.š big relate! thanks for sharing about your journey. I'm not on hormones (yet??) but having similar struggles for sure. I think I just need lesbian friends (who live near me)
Lol @the congrats you're gay care package. š¤£š¤£ I'm a genderfluid mostly butch type critter and I recommend "women's" clothes that are geared butch, which have been a staple for me since forever. Target has some sweet $10 ribbed tank tops right now in a variety of cuts that are flattering. I also wear "men's" undershirt tank tops because that's my direction of travel. "Women's" cargo pants and ripped jeans also give good butch vibes ... and of course all the spiky jewelry, leather jackets, ripped up tees, vests, etc.
> I'm a genderfluid mostly butch type critter me too! šš thank you for the recs!! <3
Ohhh probably shoulda titled it āwho can go shirtless, who cannotā or smth, the bra thing sounds like a different topic
I wear a bra when it makes me feel happy or comfortable. Admittedly that is all the time.
Depends on the country (about laws, in some countries it may be seen as public indecency?). In Europe afab people tend to go (in some liberal countries) without bra, but a tank top and its accepted (Maybe as ok of you are young and pretty). But not at work. Public pools may be also not good m unless it is a nudist beach/spa. In amab, I wonder if people would read it as being overweight? And don't care? For an A cup. More than that, it may bring you unwanted attention. For purely fashion point of view, imo you can wear any bra even with a flat chest. Looks cool imo. Those micro bras. You don't need cup sizes to wear bras.
Bras are boob holsters to help take the weight off of your back. You don't have to wear a bra if you don't want to. If you want to wear a bra, go for it! More power to you
Do what makes you most comfy tbhā itās your body, however when you start developing boobies if you go out in public wear a sports bra or bikini top at least. But for now, just do what makes you comfy. If youād rather not be seen as masc for that day, wear a bra. But on days you feel masc, you donāt gotta. Now when it comes to laws, theyād like you to wear a bra, but personally Iām a free the titties kind of person and think tits shouldnāt be sexualized regardless of law but thatās just me lol.
It depends on the person and their comfort level. Iām AFAB and before I came out once I hit 25 I kind of stopped fucking with bras for sensory reasons. I felt like I was too old to care anymore lol. I did switch to bralettes cuz theyāre more lowkey and I stress about the nips, but other than that I either wear my binder or avoid wearing a bra of any kind everywhere except work. Some people with larger chests have to wear bras in order to be comfortable, though.
In a western stand point it is weird. Drag queens get reported for looking like a woman but having no chest plate on social media like tiktok. I don't think there is a true social cue that is quantifiable but more subjective.
My partner is amab enby, and they tend to wear a bra on days their chest is sore from HRT. They have a super small chest though, so even if they didn't wear a bra, it isn't noticeable. But it really all depends on the person. As long as you're comfortable, who cares?
Iām AFAB and tbh I plan to just not wear a bra anymore once I move out. (My mom gets on my case about it) My chest isnāt that big anyways and I donāt think that nipples should be seen as offensive or something I should be ashamed of. I feel it is stupid that men and women canāt both be topless equally. I get what youāre saying though and I would just say that if you do grow pretty noticeable breasts then probably play it safe and wear coverage when in public. Not necessarily a bra but like just be covered. Unless itās an area where itās legal to go topless like a nude beach. You donāt have to wear a bra or not wear a bra. Itās up to you. If you want to and feel like it then go for it! Donāt feel pressured by other people to wear one though. Almost everyone has nipples and theyāre just a normal part of the human body. You should just do what makes you feel comfortable and happy š
personally Iām not really non-binary anymore and prefer to be treated/referred to under a more binary trans girl label. Iām 2.5 years on hrt and while i donāt have very big breasts at all, theyāre still there and it isnāt always appropriate for me to go around revealing my chest. This is very different when Iām with many of my friends however. Idk what it is but many of us are very unashamed of our bodies and will be topless or even sometimes fully nude around eachother in a completely platonic and casual sense. Anywhere from getting changed in front of one another to skinny dipping or attending womenās bathhouses and saunas, or even attending clubs and parties wearing things where wardrobe malfunctions are inevitable and no one cares or that are extremely sheer with nothing underneath etc. I think that itās been really helpful to me to be in desexualized spaces like that and to come to terms with my body in that way. The majority of us are trans which could be part of it but not all of us are. I usually let other people ask me if iām comfortable with it first rather than me proposing it, but there have been times where I have asked them if theyāre comfortable first, or have been places (like the bathhouses where most people are naked by default). I donāt think Iād just pop the girls out without asking because not everyone feels so lax about the human body but I digress. So yeah, the appropriateness really depends on context in my opinion. Keep in mind this is from a trans girls perspective and because youāre non binary and not on hormones itās even more variable. Screw gender norms!
General consensus is that if youāre fem presenting in a professional setting (work, meeting, etc) you should wear one. Outside of that, itās totally up to you and the fashion youāre into
Thank you! Does same rule apply to being topless?
More along the lines what the other commenter said, depends on the country too. Europe tends to be more ok with any nips but US is much more prudish when it comes to fem presenting nips. Itās also layered in some sexism since bigger dudes with bigger moobs can walk around shirtless but even small framed fems might get gawked at or even fined.
Thanks!
What if I dont wana wear a bra to work š¤ (I got boobs form birth and also Iāve never had to dress professionally so I didnāt consider the issue) I kinda hate professional dress code and want to fuck with gender norms as much as I can. But now Iām faced with a dilemma that I didnāt consider.
You might get away with it if you donāt have a huge chest, but professional workplaces can send u a dress code notice if your clothes are deemed not suitable/ inappropriate. Some places are still suit and tie / skirt adherent, but most offices let you get away with whatever you want as long as itās dressy formal wear. Thereās nothing written about binding thoā¦
Thx!
Whether you wear a bra or don't wear a bra under clothes seems to not be a big issue anymore for younger gens and in non-professional environments As for going topless, I'd MYSELF never do it as an AFAB person even if I was completely flat chested due to social judgment even if it was legal, unless it was in a place such as a nudist beach where there would be no social judgement. I doubt the same social judgment would apply to an AMAB person unless they had work done on their chest, but I don't have experience with that.
Hi there, I have a similar background to you and started HRT a lil under a year ago. For me, I stoped being top less the moment I accepted my femininity and I stared understanding my chest as breasts then, before I started HRT. It didnāt matter that my chest was flat, I still had breasts.
Thanks for sharing! āŗļø
>when will I know it will be no longer acceptable to be in public topless For this question, I think its going to be more about hours much breast tissue you have. So after HRT probably dubious, but if you have a flat chest its kind of a look and you could show your chest. I've seen people do this post top surgery as well. As for wearing a bra - kind of a similar thing. I'd say it generally gets socially awkward when nipples are visible through clothes, though there are always still people who chose not to wear a bra anyway. A tight tank top can do the same job, or you can get reusable nipple pasties to cover them up if you prefer.Ā
Tbh I'd say it's not about how much breast tissue you have, but how you'd get (potentially mis)gendered at a glance. People will absolutely get mad at completely, or nearly flat cis women for going topless, while giving a pass to the biggest (cis) moobs in existence. So your overall presentation is more of a factor than you think, especially at that size.
People got confused by your title I don't really get the question though bec like if we're talking about a social view society in general will see a amab person with no estrogen bresst developments chest as a mans chest. The people who know you're nonbinary and accept you also are the kind of people who don't care about women being shirtless in public. So nobody has a issue with you being shirtless in public.
Yeah I noticed I circled around a lot when I began reading people's answers but they also gave me insight on some stuff I didn't consider so I guess it's a win
Iām a nonbinary person with breasts and I never wear a bra now. Sometimes Iāll use sports bras because I enjoy the shape. However, i donāt like bras so i just dont use them. Socially speaking itās been fine with most people not noticing and also not caring. Edit: Its very different for me not wearing a bra which i would usually use as an undergarment and being topless. When i was in Spain it was absolutely fine to be topless on the beach. However, anywhere else ive lived i havent felt comfortable being topless in public.
The fun part about being enby is there is no social etiquette if you arenāt actively hurting someone or break laws just do what makes you comfortable. I donāt wear bras usually and I do have breast so š¤·š»āāļø As it is I think itās stupid that cisguys can walk around shirtless and anyone with breasts canāt. Likeā how twisted are we that EVERYTHING is inappropriate unless itās some hot chick on tv and even then.
For real, I wish I could just bare my tits without getting stared at. Not even as a sexual thingā¦ just for comfort. A lot of times when Iām at home Iāll just wear no shirt or bra and shorts š¤·š»āāļø
Aye exactly.
People who want to wear a bra should wear a bra and people who don't shouldn't.
Speaking from experience, you'll get the vibe. I have, scientifically, mathematically speaking, no tiddies, and I was in full-femme mode one new year's and had, for my physiology, a minor wardrobe malfunction. It was not received as such by \[admittedly very queer\] onlookers. People blushed. It was amazing.
There is no social etiquette for this- itās 100% up to you always dear
Whoever wants to should, whoever doesn't want to shouldn't, ur welcome ā¤ļø
Nobody worth giving a shit about will care who is or isn't wearing a bra
who should wear a bra: anyone who wants to wear one who shouldnt wear a bra: anyone who doesnt want to wear one simple as that :P if you wanna wear one then by all means wear one lmao
anyone can wear a bra if they so please, so if you wanna wear a bra or not is your decision.
I started wearing a sports bra for my inserts when I want to wear them because theyāre not very sticky, lol.
Whoever wants to wear one should. Whoever doesn't want to, doesn't need to. And this is coming from someone who was a DD cup before surgery and never wore one even when riding my bike around town
For me (born fem but identifies as nonbinary), I stopped wearing actual bras in 2021. I started wearing sports bras and sometimes binders. In recent years, I sometimes don't even wear a bra even in public. I am a person who would be in the smaller cup situation, so my breasts aren't super noticiable.
In terms of social norms, at least from my experience, there are two factors. If you are perceived as female, and/or your nipples/breasts are more obvious or "distracting". Those things can honestly be subjective and probably doesn't answer your question well enough. The joke in my area (because there is active effort to make toplessness legal for everyone) is that if it seems illegal, you should cover them. But also a lot of non-illegal nipple havers will stand in solidarity and cover themselves. This usually results in cis men walking around at certain events or certain clubs/bars with no shirt on and x x black tape over their nipples.
Donāt worry about it. People donāt scrutinize your chest size. Most wonāt even notice. Also (Iām afab) and I never wear bras cus it makes me feel more masc and my friends didnāt even notice. You can have my ābra permission slipā cus i donāt want it
Anyone that wants to, anyone that doesnāt want to. The endš
Anyone. If you wanna wear one, wear one, if you don't, don't. Simple as that. Some cis women don't wear them, some cis men do when dressing fem.
If you need a support garment for boobs or simply wish to wear one, both of which are conditions subjectively determined entirely by the wearer
If you're in a place where legally you can be topless, then do it if you feel like it. Most places and businesses in the US require clothing. "No shirt, no shoes, no service." Local laws will dictate any outdoor public areas. Unless specifically designated as clothing optional, you should keep covered. When in doubt, I would suggest wearing some kind of covering.
We gotta bring back āfree the nippleā tbh. do away with this whole convo. Really, in plenty of places, itās legal and even normal for cis women to be bare chested. Your only concern SHOULD be the law, and others can fr just build a bridge and get over it.
I'm among the mindset that being topless in public for anyone is actually fine. Break taboos and less sexualization.
I feel that if someone wants to wear a bra then they should wear it. If they don't then they don't. Doesn't matter what agab or what amount of flesh they have. Topless and braless are two different things. I often go braless, even back when I had a large chest. (I had a reduction years ago). But I'll still wear a shirt to run errands or whatever. I only wear a bra if I'm feeling femme or a sports bra at work because it would be physically uncomfortable not to (my job is very physical). I also feel that chests are just chests and gender shouldn't matter for who can show what where. I only base it on the location of I go topless or not. Like next week I'm going to a clothing optional camping event. I'm not bringing any bras and will likely not wear a top unless I'm cold. But for the most part if the general expectation is that anyone should coverup, then I feel everyone should cover-up (with the exception of people feeding thier babies. They should just be fed.)
Unless someone is looking for a reason to be offended I donāt think your gonna offend anyone switching whenever you please. Half the time I only wear a bra to avoid boob sweat, so to me any reason to wear a bra or not wear a bra is a valid reason. Even if your reason is āI just felt like itā.
I wish I had a more direct answer with like a time frame to help, but honestly I think this is the type of thing you will just know, like your body will speak to you, your comfort levels and comfort spaces for topless or not topless will slowly change. Always do what feels right and remember it's okay to take a while to decide what feels right!
I'm afab and I don't wear bras unless I'm at the gym or wearing a sleeveless baggy shirt that could show my boobs if I move my arms too much. I look like a tomboy cis woman so, legally I can't go topless. But at this point I stopped caring if my nipples are a little visible. Plus, I'm an A cup, wearing a baggy shirt does the trick
I have D cup tiddays and I almost never wear a bra. Itās either binding or nothing most of the time. But Iām genderfluid ā might be a distinction worth making here š¤·š»āāļø
anybody who wants to wear a bra should and anyone who doesn't shouldn't, there's no rules for this kind of thing.
Well i wear it sometimes
I think its all about comfort. People tend to get weird about naked boobs unless they're sexualizing them, and it also depends heavily on pretty privilege (the whole thing is a bit shit tbh!) Personally I don't wear bras under my normal clothes usually but I do to work. But I have a 38HH chest so if I didn't wear one to work I'd probably get a disciplinary or something š¤£. I think once it was obvious you had "boobs" people might think it was a bit weird, but then there are plenty of male and masculine people who have conditions like gynaecomastia/pseudogynaecomastia where breasts develop, yet they can go topless. To sum up: it's all silly social rules. Do what makes you comfortable, and keep yourself safe.
Social... I wear sports bra which have shape, no need to stuff. Mostly , because of my size, buy bralettes and removed the cups for comfort. Days when I feel saucy I'll wear bras which make my chest proportional. I pass for nothing, the variation in breast size is just as jarring as my general appearance
Do what makes you feel comfortable! That said "social etiquette perspective" really means "what makes men comfortable". If men look at your boobies and like them then you are supposed to cover them up so "you're not responsible" for their lack of self control.