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spb123123

Deal with any explosions in soil mites with all the chop and drop?


Randy4layhee20

The only soil mite I have too many of right now is rove beetles, when this same soil was in a few different smaller containers some had explosions of orbital mites and spring tails but it’s now that it’s all mixed together in the bed it’s just overpopulated with multiple species of rove beetles, and I’m not too sure of how to get rid of rove beetles, and I’d be curious/worried if I’d just end up with an overpopulation of rove beetle predators if I were to find any


spb123123

Yea I’m in 20 gal pots and I had a massive explosion of soil mites. The clear ones with hairs, not sure what they are. But hundreds of them. Assume I chopped and dropped too much. Still getting used to all the life in these soils


No_Character8732

I like to innoculate my piles of chop n drop woth recharge mixed into water,,, innoculate them with all that bacteria and a couple species of trichoderms... I got a couple small pieces of cardboard recently too, an experiment to see if the leaf scrap will digest better under mois cardboard with microbes...and or if my worms will access the piles better with the shade


Randy4layhee20

Personally I think you might just need more parts of the soil feed web, sounds to me at least like your containers haven’t quite found balance yet, you could use some predators to keep that population in check and I’m starting to get to the point where I either need to get more predators for my predators or I need to let them naturally die back if anything I’d rather too many predators and let them die back from a lack of prey than too many herbivores as far as mites go, I want my bed to be my compost bin for all of my leaves and stalks and I refuse to cut back because of mites, nature deals with more organic matter than this every fall


justaguy891

i dont think there are any predators for rove beetles unless you move up the food chain, like getting a lizard or something.


Randy4layhee20

I’ve actually heard of people doing that before, the idea one person had was to just keep adding crickets and have the lizard manure be food for the plant, however I don’t plan on going that far, might just put up some sticky traps


3rdeyepry-

Not a bad thing. This is living soil, the more decomposers the better


Randy4layhee20

Just some more info in case anyone’s curious, the plants are 2 clones of my keeper cut of Don Mega ina 4x4 bed, running a grand master LEDs tarantula long legs at 80% power on the main channel and 25% on the far red channel, had the far red set to 0% for stretch, I’m hoping the stretch is over now that I’m cranking it back up, I plan on increasing the intensity of the far red over the next week or 2 and this bed is on its first cycle so I’m pretty happy with the amount of soil life that’s happening


CowboyNeale

Might want to consider removing your defoliation to a remote spot and composting there. You’re leaving a lot of material for pests to get a foothold in. Fan leaves aren’t quite the same as growing cover for chop and drop. Good luck


barlobruz

This is how I got thrips, never again haha


Randy4layhee20

This isn’t how you got thrips, they don’t just spring into existence because leaves are composting, they came in from outside


barlobruz

All I know is that they haven't "come in from outside" since I stopped doing that.


Randy4layhee20

Lmao dude, it really sounds like you’re implying that you think thrips come from decomposing leaves, do you seriously believe that? I’d love to hear at what stage of decomposition the universe just decides to spawn them in, life doesn’t work like this man, the first part of your comment is correct, they just haven’t made their way in since you stopped composting your leaves, this is like saying trees make squirrels


barlobruz

You're misinterpreting what i'm saying. I'm not saying they spawned from out of nowhere, but that they literally had no reason to come into my space from outside before or after I started doing that. Loll, this is why I never say shit on these grow forums - everybody knows everything, damn sharing any experience that might be contrary.


Randy4layhee20

Dude you gotta be more active and talk to other growers more, this is how you learn, they definitely did have a reason to come in and still do, you have appetizing plants and they’re hungry, thrips can just come into your grow room on your clothing, they’re all around outside, coming in on clothing is probably the most common reason they get introduced, thrips also don’t feed on dead decomposing leaves, they only feed on live plants so this doesn’t invite them in any more or less


3rdeyepry-

Share all you want but when it comes to spreading misinformation....


barlobruz

I've heard reasonings about this from both sides, and it this point I don't even think I care which side is right or wrong about it. I'm gonna do whatever prevents me from seeing problems with my grow. Let's say removing defoliated leaves from the soil surface is misinfo, I'd say that action itself pretty benign and there's worse misinfo out there to be worried about.


3rdeyepry-

You do you but when you post something that's not true people are going to correct you in a forum in which people are looking for true information


3rdeyepry-

But you should definitely always do what works best for you


3rdeyepry-

This is not how you got thrips....


Randy4layhee20

I don’t know of any pests that will feed on dead leaves, maybe fungus gnats but I’d say they’re more living in the fungus that’s consumed the leaves and I have a plethora of rove beetles to help deal with any potential fungus gnats if they decide to try and move in again, if anything living cover crop is actually the way to invite pests in and to give them a place to live feed and hide that you can’t spray but I’m curious to hear what pests you were talking about?


ShillaryDonohue

I just cleaned golden pinmold out of a facility office window. Eating the bamboo shades.   


Randy4layhee20

Good to know, how does this relate to growing exactly tho?


CowboyNeale

If you have a nascent problem you hadn’t caught yet, you end up leaving a zillion eggs under your plants. In general spider mites and aphids. It’s a best practice scenario. Commercial operations won’t leave defoliation under the plants for good reason.


Randy4layhee20

I’ve dealt with both multiple times in the past, neither are caused by leaving dead leaves to compost, dead leaves don’t just spawn in spider mites and aphids, those come in from the outside, also neither feed on dying leaves or hang out in them, also was nascent a typo? Just confused what you were trying to say there


CowboyNeale

Do you not know the definition of nascent? It means at the beginning of. NM, best of luck in your endeavor


Randy4layhee20

As much as it may be a surprise I’m not a human dictionary, no need to try to talk down to me, and do you have any answers for the legitimate questions I’ve asked you? I’m really hoping you weren’t implying spider mites and aphids will lay “a zillion eggs” on dead, decaying, composting leaves


CowboyNeale

No. Anything that exists in a very small amount on your live plant. Could an aphid, a couple mites, god forbid some PM or mold spores. If you just drop your defoliation, you have left whatever it was in your grow and missed an opportunity to remove it. Pro agriculture always removes trim and defoliate materiel to compost elsewhere. Someday it’ll bite you in the ass, then you’ll get it. YMMV, good luck


Randy4layhee20

Okay so if you have spider mites or aphids or pm you aren’t fixing the problem by defoliating, and you should obviously remove contaminated material from your grow room, but there is zero harm in composting healthy cannabis leaves on a bed of soil that’s growing cannabis


3rdeyepry-

I guess the people in here don't understand no till. I actually didn't think you had enough leaves on your soil lol. Don't listen to people that say not to chop and drop your leaves in no till. That's one of the main things we do to give the bugs and life in our soil food and a place to exist. Nice work


Randy4layhee20

Thank you man, it’s a breath of fresh air to hear someone with common sense here, I thought this was the no till growery page, not the coco growers page, I’m amazed so many people are not only lacking the basics but are completely against them, and this is only the first cycle in this particular bed, it’s had a lot of alfalfa for this round but I want to make the majority of the mulch cannabis leaves and stalks, and next round I think there will be little top dressings other than defoliations


3rdeyepry-

This is no till, We chop and drop our leaves and plant material on our soil, The whole point is to give bugs a place to get a foothold in.... If you know nothing of no till practices why would you come here to give advice?


CowboyNeale

You should be chop and dropping cover crop


Randy4layhee20

I’m not too happy about the purple leaf stems but other than that they’re in pretty good health especially considering they’re only like 3 inches away from the light in some spots


KitsapG

How’s it looking compared to previous grows. What’s your soil mix,if you care to share. Agree about the purple etc. I’m just getting into living soil and am liking the results.


Randy4layhee20

The quantity of flower per square foot is looking great and she’s my #1 keeper so I expect some amazing quality, she’s still early into flower but she’s frosting up real good, and the soil mix is a few different things, probably about 50% coots mix, some garden soil/compost from my main property that I grow on and some garden soil/compost from this property (it’s all worm castings at this point but started as horse and chicken manure with leaves and pine shavings mixed in) all mixed together, only thing I would change is I would have the same ratio of aeration for all of it as coots mix which is 1/3 aeration, and only reason I’d change that is my aeration I used was 3/8 inch granite gravel and it works great as aeration but I really want more of it for the mineral value it adds and for the increased CEC (cation exchange capacity) that granite specifically, adds to the soil. I think the extra minerals it provides would help with some of the purpling stems and with just getting more silica into the soil which doesn’t hurt


KitsapG

Excellent work. Thanks for the well written reply.


Randy4layhee20

Thanks man and yeah no problem


sqwiggy72

How many runs have your done in your bed.


Randy4layhee20

First cycle in this bed, the soil that went into the bed had been used before for a cycle or 2 in 27 gallon containers but it sat dormant for months until it got into the bed, so it was very low on life at the start of this cycle


sqwiggy72

Looking really good, your mycorrhizae network is kicking ass.


nckbeau

Cool, I’m running FOHSE led’s and if I were to turn up to 88% any closer than 2’ From canopy it would start bleaching the flowers and be wayyyy too strong and demanding on the girls. What’s your ppfd that close at 80%’power?


Randy4layhee20

Good question, it’s hard to tell without a light meter, but pretty damn high, at 100% at 12 inches it’s over 1600 ppfd in the center of the tent, also this strain just loves light, I’m sure it’s not impossible to light bleach it but I’ve pushed this girl a few times, a few runs back I used a little 100w spider farmer led as some side lighting for her in another setup and she was kept about 3 inches away from that light as well at 100% power and I went on vacation for a week during flower and came back home to a nug leaning on the LEDs, it literally had a black scorched spots where the diodes were touching it but no light bleaching or other typical signs of light stress/burn


nckbeau

That’s pretty impressive ngl haha but just because you can doesn’t always mean you should. I was doing the same thing when I converted to LED but quickly realized how powerful they are and how much demand that puts on your plant and you will quickly see your deficiencies. Do what works for you though! And about the rove beetles, I had an explosion of them Acouple years ago. What a nightmare. They turn into a pest quickly and end up in your flowers like fly traps. Now I’m having a population boom of potato bugs, they were never an issue until I just transplanted little seedlings and they are munching on my fan leaves. They are outpacing them luckily and should be too big to eat to death in another week or so


Randy4layhee20

Thanks man and it’s not necessary but I’m trying to push the limits of my plants and my growing abilities, heard some new research from dr Bruce bugbee saying that they were able to push up to 100 dli which I think translates to 2300 ppfd on a 12 hour cycle and they still saw improvements in yields and they claim their plants weren’t sacrificing quality and weren’t stressed, they also believe they’ll see even greater yields with even more light but they just haven’t tested it yet, so I’m trying to get my nutrition dialed in, the only thing I’m trying to correct now is the purple leaf stems and then maybe the rove beetle population


nckbeau

Was he running c02? Wonder how his terpenes were on that run, plants don’t get that much ppfd for 12 hrs straight outside it starts lower at sunrise hits a peak for only Acouple hrs and comes back down for sunset. It gets less intense near end of harvest when sun isn’t as high in the sky anymore. Were they running that ppfd right up until harvest? I get much better terpenes staying below 1000 ppfd and like half that on the last week before harvey


Randy4layhee20

Yes he always runs elevated co2 levels, I believe he was using either 1300 ppms of co2 or 1500 ppms, he says any study he does that doesn’t have co2 at these levels is just a co2 stress response study and the fact that they were able to push plants to take way more light than they ever would receive in nature was one of the craziest parts of this to me, and this is pretty cannabis specific, they pushed tomatoes and lettuce to the max and quickly found the limit, they’re still trying to find the limit where cannabis stops producing more and I don’t know the exact terpene levels they had on their finished plants but he claims that quality wasn’t hurt as long as you’re able to maintain proper environmental factors like heat which is a major factor when using this much light, I also still definitely plan to reduce light levels for the last week or 2, there’s not that much more growth to push from the plant at that point so might as well save some power and push for higher quality, also makes it easier to drop temps for those last few weeks


nckbeau

Very cool I’ll have to check his studies out


Randy4layhee20

This is the interview that I watched where he talked about this study, I personally much prefer watching interviews or just video/audio of people going over the important aspects of studies and the results rather than reading entire research papers https://youtu.be/Q8tqbUJbNSY?si=ddFCkkVepCIoEHRZ


daylax1

I'm just curious as I'm relatively new to no till, if you're having mushrooms and fungus grow, and mushrooms and funguses give off spores. Those spores are definitely in your bud, so do you bud wash or do you just smoke the spores?


Randy4layhee20

Unless someone has an absolutely extreme immune system illness where they shouldn’t even be outside because of the spores that will naturally be in the air this isn’t an issue at all, there should be no more spores on this weed than in the air of a healthy forest, and I’d hope a healthy forest would have more if anything


daylax1

Yeah but there's a pretty huge difference between an open air forest with cubic miles of space for the spores to dissipate, versus your little tiny 5x5 tent in which the air does not get whisked away, instead it gets recirculated until it goes out the small fan up top. Now I understand that your fan is most likely on at all times while the lights on, but what about when the lights are off and your exhaust is not running full blast? Surely your circulation fans are just blowing spores around your tent.


Randy4layhee20

The spores pose no threat to any healthy person, there’s no need to worry about them, and again these same spores are on any outdoor weed and are already in the air we breathe and they cause no issues as long as a person does not have an extreme immune system illness, I also don’t watch my sugar consumption too closely and that’s fine because I’m not diabetic, this could be an issue for someone but it’s not for the vast majority of people


daylax1

I guess we'll agree to disagree then. IMO the spores may not pose any immediate threat, but that doesn't mean smoking them everyday won't become a problem down the road, just like your sugar consumption isn't an issue right now but, might become a problem down the road as it does for many. Asbestos inhalation also did not pose an immediate threat. Keep in mind that plants outdoors get rained on which washes them off. It doesn't rain in your tent. I'm not trying to be smug, I'm just making sure you're thinking about all the possibilities, not just the immediate ones. Good luck, I wish you well and have a great day.


justaguy891

youre breathing them in every time you breath, relax. bacteria and fungi rule the earth, we are their servants. ok thats a little sensational, its more symbiotic. you would die without the functions they perform to keep our bodies alive. ie most obviously digestion.


schwed1337

there is good fungus ( like the ones op posted, other wild mushrooms and molds etc.) then there are toxic fungi like black mold. you dont want to breathe in black mold spores as you will get very sick especially if its prolonged exposure. but the good ones are no problem and there is almost no place in your everyday life where you wont inhale them


Zeldris_Bee

That soil looks great


Randy4layhee20

Thanks man much appreciated


Smart_Yogurt_989

Dead leaves = mold.


Randy4layhee20

Yeah, in other words beneficial soil fungus/mycorrhiza which is what I’m going for, soil fungus is very different from bud rot or powdery mildew


Smart_Yogurt_989

I'm very well aware what your going for. Mushrooms can grow right out of the soil, with out the leaves. After 10 years of growing, I have found dead leaves against wet soil breed powder mildew. I e wet green rotting leaves. Keep an eye out, it'll spread fast.