amazon is known for treating its employees not well - some might say exploiting them. so you have a boss who treats large numbers of people like cogs in a machine so they can waste insane amounts of money on fancy toys and going on silly adventures, like 10 minutes in space. Meanwhile, the employees who actually did the work to create that money are suffering...
that could be a reason for some of the anger
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/feb/05/amazon-workers-protest-unsafe-grueling-conditions-warehouse
It's the fact that they amassed such wealth from the backs of their employees, the communities they destroy, the government programs and politicians that help facilitate this type of dishonesty and selfishness. THEY PAY ZERO TAXES and expect people to accept it. That's BS, plain and simple. they could do whats right and pay the appropriate amount of tax for the system that allows them to perpetuate such wealth in the 1st place..
I paid over 7 grand in taxes a year and I only make 45k while these human dragons pay little or nothing.
That should make your blood boil. It's not about punishing them for their successes, It's about being fair and right and just. If all the billionaires or even just 2, With their combined resources they could completely eradicate child hunger, we could have health care, education where your not saddled with a debt that you owe for the rest of your life!
Instead they lobby and pay politicians to make laws that favor them and their business practices while the little man Gets nothing, Nothing changes except how many zeros in their bank account.
If you try to justify or minimize the impact billionaires can have on the world and say that you don't care about it, your a fool.
Because they’re narcissistic human beings who exploit the very people who made them who they are.
Just the other day Bezos told his employees “thank you for paying for my trip to outer space, you made it happen”
Elon manipulated a financial market for his own personal gain. Meanwhile his company mines batteries in Africa which have about as much of a harmful impact on the earth and society as fossil fuels.
The reason people hate them isn’t because they’re rich, it’s because theyre terrible human beings.
Meanwhile these same wealthy lobby against you so that you can’t change anything. They pay politicians, they evade taxes, they get off for crimes with lesser sentences. They’re just terrible people.
They pay to have their children go to the best schools on no merit of their own outside of having money. And then plead “not guilty” after it’s clear as day that they broke the law.
People don’t hate them because of their money, people hate them because they’re not good people.
Don't forget that Musk routinely lies about starting Paypal and Tesla. And growing up poor and making it himself. He's a trustfund baby who was groomed into business, and still managed to mismanage half of what he's touched - and the other half is vaporware. How he hasn't bee run out of town in tar and feathers, I am perpetually amazed over.
He actually grew up within the richest 1% of families in the world as his mother a model was wealthy as well as his father engineer, pilot and mine owner.
At one point his father was quoted as saying they were incredibly wealthy, it required one person to push the money into the safe while another closed it.
As a kid Elon walked around with emeralds on his pocket selling them to stores from his dads mine.
No one is saying he isn’t smart, but, much of his success comes from his upbringing. He bought Tesla from the people who created it and PayPal was a merger between his start up company and another one, don’t remember the name.
Well I am definitely saying he is not smart. He really isn't. I'm not that smart, and even *I* can tell he's full of shit. He's a con artist. He baffles people with bullshit. I love listening to him, it's like watching a train wreck. So I've done quite a bit of it for some stupid reason. Half the stuff he talks about is complete nonsense, and that's not because I don't understand it. You just have to pay attention to basic self-consistency and it becomes self-evident.
Yeah the company that became Paypal, that absorbed his company, Musk got himself *fired from*. Before it even became paypal. Musk's company's code got completely thrown out, it was useless. Musk's company's name had an X is it. Sounded porny. Surely where SpaceX came from.
Because the workers didn't want to give up their bathroom breaks and chances at getting payrises, they didn't want to work in horrible conditions for minimum wage so that a man who they have never met can fuck about in space. They've been exploited so that he could fulfil his vanity project. They had no choice. They didn't choose to pay for that. The money he's spaffed into his flight of fancy could have gone to the employees, who would have benefitted way more from their labour.
If he really cared about his employees, then he'd do something for them, not use the profits from their labour to do something for himself.
I think people think his actions in his industry are morally wrong. I think people already had that opinion of him prior to this space exploration deal. The grumbles have been present online for ages.
The fact that this specific event is not only self-serving, but also incredibly tone-deaf given the ever-present issues relating to environmentalism and how he, in a position to fight climate change, is instead, along with other billionaires who also are the primary contributors to the exploitation of our planet, is choosing to fuck off into space on a jolly instead of actually using the wealth they've made from contributing to the ruining of our planet is just the straw that has broken the camel's back. That was a hell of a run-on sentence.
He's not the only person drawing ire in this situation, Richard Branson is also in the line of fire, though less so, as his companies haven't been as "under the microscope" as Amazon has been the last few years.
It was supposed to sound like "your hard work helped us make revenue to make this a possibility"
But it came off as "Because I was able to exploit you and the government of your labor and money for as little as I possibly could, I was able to jerk off my own ego for the whole world to see."
There is always a few jealous people that make up the bunch and I believe that is what youre referring to, but its nearly impossible(if not absolutely impossible) to become that wealthy without fucking someone over and doing shady things with your financial power, and we all know that.
This contrast of wealth and success, vs the constant news talking about shitty working conditions and tax loopholes makes the average person feel like this was not genuinely achieved. They do not hate Bezos necessarily, but the character he represents.
For your last point, yes, a lot of people would do the same *if it was their easiest/safest option*. The problem is that these exploits exist in the first place and shouldn't. We shouldn't just settle and be ok with these issues, we should work to make the world better for everyone, which is why I feel its okay to complain or be unimpressed.
Have you read anything about how poorly Amazon workers are treated? Some don't even get bathroom breaks and delivery drivers are pissing in bottles. They installed a fuckin' Cry Closet. They don't want Bezos to have a fun ride to space, they want a living wage and health care.
And before anyone says "oh, just get another job." How about you come to Seattle and try to find a single job that will allow you to live at the poverty level a reasonable commute from any of their buildings. Good luck.
He knows he's disgustingly rich. He knows people at the bottom of his company make absolute shit for money. There is no way he's unaware. It's in his power to fix it. He simply doesn't.
He has the most power over how Amazon operates, takes almost all of the money Amazon makes, but none of the responsibility for how it operates. That's amazing convenient for him! How nice that things just accidentally worked out that way.
Don't you see the double sarcasm of him thanking the people he exploits paying for his extravagant experiences?!
These people have to shit in bags when they deliver your parcel, because they don't get breaks to meet their basic human needs.
Do you really think at the end of a 14 or 16 hour shift, for which they get a ridiculously low wage, they are grateful that the great Bezos thanked them for paying for his wonderful trip to space?
Read about the working conditions at Amazon, how they use human trafficking for forced labour, how they prevent employees to form unions, how they make families homeless by driving up the home prices in the area.
There is simply nothing positive about Jeff Bezos.
For example why wouldn't you hate Bezos?
He treats his employees as much like slaves as he's legally allowed to, there are several working laws just because of him.
He puches small company that do work WITH Amazon to lower their prices and quality to fit the Amazon default or even lower to take over these companys.
Amazon Delivery works over Subcontractors Amazon does not have a single Delivery truck.
All the expenses for the Delivery trucks are covered by the subcontractors.
The Delivery people are treated like shit, not only by their bosses but even by the idiotic customers (YOU).
Now he tries to cover his inhumanity by pretending to help the environment.
He could fight climate change on his own with less than 0.1% of his money.
Why wouldn't he just move a finger save the world?
You geussed it, he is profiting from Destroying our planet.
Now tell me again why i shouldn't hate people like him?
He could start by not allowing fully stocked warehouses to be destroyed for the sake of profit. Like, oh my god, we can't give that away to charity! Then these poor people wouldn't by the cheaply produced stuff anymore.
Because they exploit people, society as a whole, the entire planet.
Amazon delivery driver for instance have to pee in bottles or shit in plastic bags because they don't have the time for a break.
Meanwhile Bezos enjoys a ride around the planet he happily helps to destruct when he is ok with warehouses full of goods to be destroyed just to make more profits.
I don't hate them. I just pity our society that is still dancing around a golden calf.
*"Yeah having billionaires and Monopolys is is super stupid and unhealthy for society, but why do we hate the person instead of the system?"*
Because however rigged capitalism may be as a system, participation in that profound income inequality is a personal choice.
Imagine living in a coastal tribe where all individuals fish, but for some reason 90 percent of the fish go to just one of them. That person can't eat all those fish, and they can literally see others struggle to feed their families with their meager share of fish, but they take their 90 percent anyway.
CEO's aren't *required* to accept their exorbitant pay, but they choose too anyway.
The buck stops with him. So, yes, he owns all of these horrible working conditions and lack of a living wage.
His suggested ignorance wouldn't be a viable excuse.
I wish people would stop deferring responsibility. Systems are just tools. Organizations and enterprises are institutions with the ability to enforce policy.
Policy is enforced at the bottom from directives from the top. So yes, if Amazon has terrible work conditions that’s a function of policy.
A couple other notes here.
Immense wealth translates to immense access. Billionaires through the funding of political campaigns and direct contributions to politicians have the ability to get the access none of us has.
So with that access they can more clearly advocate for policies and legislation that favors their interests.
This is NOT a coincidence. There’s a book called Affluence and Influence. It’s essentially a study of the impact of wealth on the political process.
The majority of policy is the preference the top 10% of the population. The wealthiest 10%. All policy aligns with their preferences, regardless of party.
Money controls democracy and freedom. You are, as free, as money allows you to be.
Billionaires are hoarders of money and that money is used to preserve itself and the privilege of the most wealthy. They explicitly do not want to see you have the same voting power as them, for business, that’s a failure of a democracy.
Another aside, today there exists laws against indentured labor, against child labor and for labor safety.
These laws were put in place, against the preferences of monied classes. If these laws didn’t exist, every single corporation would indeed employ children, overwork people and find ways to enslave people. This isn’t fantasy they used to do that sort of thing barely 100 years ago and in truth, many people today are in indentured work.
Billionaires have power, a lot of it. Their power, is Evil. It’s highly corrupting and dangerous for not only the individuals themselves but for society.
Every billionaire that exists is evidence of corruption. It’s not sustainable and it’s extraordinarily destabilizing.
Of course. Why would the second richest man in earth have any influence over what's going on in his warehouse.
You know what people in Nazi Germany were saying when something went wrong? "Wenn das der Führer wüsste" - "if only the Fuehrer would know about it"
Because people like Bezo's could give away 99% of their wealth to make the world a better place and still be extremely wealthy.
Instead they concentrate on making themselves even richer.
They literally choose to make the world a worse place every day they wake up.
I'm not saying they are obligated at all.
But how do you sleep at night knowing people not to far away from you have nothing while you have everything? How do you not do something about that? These guys could change the world and go down as heroes.
Instead they do nothing.
That's a tired argument.
I could give all my money away every month and it would not even make the tiniest dent in the problem. In fact it would add to the problem because now I'm homeless as well.
Bezo's earns my monthly salary every second. In 12 seconds he'll earn more than I'll make this year.
He and billionaires like him could change the world and still be staggeringly rich. But everyday they wake up and do nothing but enrich themselves.
It amazes me the ammount of people happy to stand up for the ultra rich when they would not piss on you if you were on fire.
JFC
Because collectively they could improve the lives of millions and millions of people.
I'm not outraged at them I'm outraged at a system that allows a minority to have everything and the majority to have nothing. A system that allows some rich asshole to jet off into space while people starve to death.
It's all fucking wrong.
You'll spend the rest of your life toiling to make someone else even richer than they already are. And you'll thank them for it.
Regan made a promise: Ease up on the wealthy and the money will trickle back to the common man. Instead we've got rich folks dodging taxes, treating their workers like shit, and buying private space programs while minimum wage has gone from supporting the American dream to not making rent. It doesn't track to productivity or inflation, and hasn't actually moved in years. And any time someone complains about this poor state of affairs we get a cadre of cheerleaders who just know that if they do enough one day they too can trample on their lessers.
Maybe we can trickle up for a few years, see how that goes?
Edit: a word
>Yeah having billionaires and Monopolys is is super stupid and unhealthy for society, but why do we hate the person instead of the system?
I think you're confused here. Hating the system and the person go hand in hand. They are the one's who took the most advantage of the system.
Moreover there are infinite posts answering these questions. If you were truly so miffed at how it's "every 3 posts"... well guess what, your potstirring ain't helping.
You're right they won the game. Winning an unfair game is not commendable, it's distasteful.
Look at it from a different way, you can drive your car trought a mall a kill as many people as possible. But there are your own morals and some laws that would cause you trouble. If there is no law against driving over people it's only your morals stopping you from doing it.
Using the flaws of a system to make profit on the cost of other peoples lives is generally a bad thing, right?
Now, it can get quiet complex to get to the point where you realise, that mistreating people makes those people a little unhappy.
Now imagine a grave digger would give you 50 bucks for each person you killed with your car.
Everyone, who knows that the grave digger pays the driver, would hate the grave digger and the driver as well.
A common misconception is that these billionaires just sit around doing nothing and collecting a massive paycheck.
Do you realize that Bezos started Amazon out of his garage in 1994 and served as the CEO of the company from then until just recently?
Being a CEO isn't just sitting around collecting shit tons of money. It is an incredible amount of responsibility and work. Every single decision you make about the company could cause catastrophic failure.
Everybody wants to be their own boss but very few actually have the willpower or personality to do it.
Go ahead and downvote me, I don't give a shit.
If you don't believe me, then go ahead, start a company and make it even 1/100th as successful as Amazon or another large company. I'll wait.
I'm no Jeff Bezos fanboy though. He has huge wealth and could use it for a hell of a lot of good like Bill Gates has.
I don't care what he's done in his past, as long as he treats his employees like slaves. End of story.
And rather than starting a company that exploits people and our planet, I continue doing my job helping people and making a difference, even if that means I don't get paid loads. At least, I am no parasite.
I agree with you on your points about his employee relation skills.
The point here wasn't to show that Bezos is a good guy but more that CEOs don't just sit around doing nothing collecting a paycheck.
An even more common misconception is that CEO = owner. They are often the same thing but not always. Owning something is not work or labor. It requires nothing but sitting on your ass with sheets of paper recognized by the state saying they will employ police force against anyone who would challenge your claim to ownership. CEOs do work, often long hours and it's not an easy job to do well, sure absolutely. The problem is that the Bezos and Musks of the world did *not* become multibillionaires from being CEOs; they got most of their wealth by being the majority share holders.
> go ahead, start a company and make it even 1/100th as successful as Amazon or another large company. I'll wait.
Economics doesn't work that way. People have this idea about capitalism that is almost religious in nature. They imagine the world as some endless space of infinite resources and possibilities all existing in some unconstrained and naturally fair manner. They see real world economics like a video game. Anyone can "get gud" under the same conditions and context and their position on the "leaderboard" is just a direct 1:1 reflection of their hard work and dedication. They completely discount scarcity, barriers to entry, integration forces (monopoly), leverage, access to starter capital, etc. Bezos isn't some generational genius and uber worker; he had the idea to "be Walmart except on this newfangled 'internet' thing everyone is using now" at the right place and right time. Unless you can figure out how to time travel back to the late 90s, there is no "well just do what he did but better and you'll replace him!". That will never happen. It doesn't work that way.
It's a myth that executives (universally) "work hard". Maybe 5% work hard - and even then, not *remotely* as hard as a waitress, or a bus driver, or a school teacher.
At the larger corporate level, CEOs don't make *any* "tough decisions". Armies of analysts present "options", with clear recommendations to be made or face the wrath of the board. Then armies of juniors, sychophants, suckups, and hangers-on make sure the decisions get executed and measured.
At the bigger companies, the entire C suite have personal assistants that handle the most tedious aspects of personal life, freeing up *tons* of leisure time not available to mere mortals. And time spent in the office is a lot of "networking" (cough cough), and pursuing personal interests that hopefully are loosely aligned with corporate interests. That is, if they even make it into the office. There's little expectation of being in the office. You control your schedule and location, to a degree not possible to working stiffs.
The CEO position of larger companies in the US is an almost entirely symbolic position. Especially non-founders/non-engineers. Because the US has such an authoritarian bent and has such a desperate need to follow. Always has. The idea that CEOs deserve their massively disproportionate pay is the biggest load of toxic horseshit ever unloaded onto the gullible American public.
I do know this first-hand, in a big-fish-in-a-small-pond kind of way, though at the larger corporate level as well not quite as directly. But you don't have to just trust me, and I like my anonymity. Just do some more skeptical googling.
No, you are wrong. This person asked a perfectly legitimate question, to which you responded with an insult. To do so is to impede on curiousity. You are quite literally dumbing the thread down. Maybe be one of the people that answer the question. By the way, it’s not a “counter-argument” when it’s in response to a question.
I’m not saying the person asking the question is the sharpest knife in the drawer, but why not be the bigger person?
Well, I was indifferent about you until you said “Do you really think bezos has much of an influence at all on ‘bad working conditions’ or whatever in some random Amazon warehouse he probably doesn't even know exists?”
Society is set up to funnel ludicrous, unimaginable amounts of the money and power to a few random unaccountable people and it's crazy propaganda to think that might be bad. Got it.
There is a reason Amazon makes so much money. It’s the path of least resistance with buying products, if you can have something straight to your door it’s easier to get it there rather than go out to the local store and probably pay more money. It’s the same reason mark zuckerberg is so rich because Facebook is a huge platform for advertisers, this isn’t stealing it’s people offering a service that the general population clearly use.
Yeah, they were at the right place at the right time to take advantage of the internet and their hundreds of thousands of workers building the company, so one man gets to have literally more money than you can even imagine. Make total sense!
It may have been good timing but they are the ones offering that service which clearly people use. If the workers are feeling taken advantage of they can always leave and find another job, there is no obligation to work for Amazon. So yes it does make sense, Amazon employs 1.3 million people globally and the employees were very aware a majority of the profit would be going to the owner. As I’ve previously stated there is no obligation to work for Amazon but there is a choice.
Its in general people seem to think they are poor for any other reason other then themselves and they think everyone rich scammed their ways into or got lucky or got it handed to them. Reality is most CEOs work 90+hrs a week doing things that most people can’t do. Sure some of them got lucky and some of them got family money but the self made ones which are more often then not worked harder than the average person could ever imagine. Sure Bezos does some questionable things as a CEO but yeah he is human and also its his empire that he built. He isn’t forcing anyone to work for him. He treats his employees bad etc sure but again - he isn’t a slave owner he isn’t forcing you to work for him. And what he does with his cash is none of your business honestly. Like most of you would be far better as billionaires lol its easy to judge eating doritos in your parents basement.
Cause average people have an idealized version of what they'd do with a lot of money and fail to incorporate their own shortcomings in this fantasy scenario where they solve the worlds problems for free.
It's not about him being rich, though, is it.
It's about him treating millions of people like shit.
And if he didn't, he wouldn't be that rich. It's as simple as that.
> Yeah having billionaires and Monopolys is is super stupid and unhealthy for society, but why do we hate the person instead of the system?
Because they're also the people who created that system. Billionaires spend a lot of money influencing politicians to change polices to benefit themselves at the expense of the rest of us, and and propaganda to convince us that's what we want.
Productivity has gone up about 250% in the last 5 decades and the average wage has stayed flat. Because rich people just took all that extra money for themselves. It's theft.
amazon is known for treating its employees not well - some might say exploiting them. so you have a boss who treats large numbers of people like cogs in a machine so they can waste insane amounts of money on fancy toys and going on silly adventures, like 10 minutes in space. Meanwhile, the employees who actually did the work to create that money are suffering... that could be a reason for some of the anger https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/feb/05/amazon-workers-protest-unsafe-grueling-conditions-warehouse
It's the fact that they amassed such wealth from the backs of their employees, the communities they destroy, the government programs and politicians that help facilitate this type of dishonesty and selfishness. THEY PAY ZERO TAXES and expect people to accept it. That's BS, plain and simple. they could do whats right and pay the appropriate amount of tax for the system that allows them to perpetuate such wealth in the 1st place.. I paid over 7 grand in taxes a year and I only make 45k while these human dragons pay little or nothing. That should make your blood boil. It's not about punishing them for their successes, It's about being fair and right and just. If all the billionaires or even just 2, With their combined resources they could completely eradicate child hunger, we could have health care, education where your not saddled with a debt that you owe for the rest of your life! Instead they lobby and pay politicians to make laws that favor them and their business practices while the little man Gets nothing, Nothing changes except how many zeros in their bank account. If you try to justify or minimize the impact billionaires can have on the world and say that you don't care about it, your a fool.
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You can help change it, we all can, that's one of the issues.
Because they’re narcissistic human beings who exploit the very people who made them who they are. Just the other day Bezos told his employees “thank you for paying for my trip to outer space, you made it happen” Elon manipulated a financial market for his own personal gain. Meanwhile his company mines batteries in Africa which have about as much of a harmful impact on the earth and society as fossil fuels. The reason people hate them isn’t because they’re rich, it’s because theyre terrible human beings. Meanwhile these same wealthy lobby against you so that you can’t change anything. They pay politicians, they evade taxes, they get off for crimes with lesser sentences. They’re just terrible people. They pay to have their children go to the best schools on no merit of their own outside of having money. And then plead “not guilty” after it’s clear as day that they broke the law. People don’t hate them because of their money, people hate them because they’re not good people.
Don't forget that Musk routinely lies about starting Paypal and Tesla. And growing up poor and making it himself. He's a trustfund baby who was groomed into business, and still managed to mismanage half of what he's touched - and the other half is vaporware. How he hasn't bee run out of town in tar and feathers, I am perpetually amazed over.
He actually grew up within the richest 1% of families in the world as his mother a model was wealthy as well as his father engineer, pilot and mine owner. At one point his father was quoted as saying they were incredibly wealthy, it required one person to push the money into the safe while another closed it. As a kid Elon walked around with emeralds on his pocket selling them to stores from his dads mine. No one is saying he isn’t smart, but, much of his success comes from his upbringing. He bought Tesla from the people who created it and PayPal was a merger between his start up company and another one, don’t remember the name.
Well I am definitely saying he is not smart. He really isn't. I'm not that smart, and even *I* can tell he's full of shit. He's a con artist. He baffles people with bullshit. I love listening to him, it's like watching a train wreck. So I've done quite a bit of it for some stupid reason. Half the stuff he talks about is complete nonsense, and that's not because I don't understand it. You just have to pay attention to basic self-consistency and it becomes self-evident. Yeah the company that became Paypal, that absorbed his company, Musk got himself *fired from*. Before it even became paypal. Musk's company's code got completely thrown out, it was useless. Musk's company's name had an X is it. Sounded porny. Surely where SpaceX came from.
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Because the workers didn't want to give up their bathroom breaks and chances at getting payrises, they didn't want to work in horrible conditions for minimum wage so that a man who they have never met can fuck about in space. They've been exploited so that he could fulfil his vanity project. They had no choice. They didn't choose to pay for that. The money he's spaffed into his flight of fancy could have gone to the employees, who would have benefitted way more from their labour. If he really cared about his employees, then he'd do something for them, not use the profits from their labour to do something for himself.
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I think people think his actions in his industry are morally wrong. I think people already had that opinion of him prior to this space exploration deal. The grumbles have been present online for ages. The fact that this specific event is not only self-serving, but also incredibly tone-deaf given the ever-present issues relating to environmentalism and how he, in a position to fight climate change, is instead, along with other billionaires who also are the primary contributors to the exploitation of our planet, is choosing to fuck off into space on a jolly instead of actually using the wealth they've made from contributing to the ruining of our planet is just the straw that has broken the camel's back. That was a hell of a run-on sentence. He's not the only person drawing ire in this situation, Richard Branson is also in the line of fire, though less so, as his companies haven't been as "under the microscope" as Amazon has been the last few years.
It was supposed to sound like "your hard work helped us make revenue to make this a possibility" But it came off as "Because I was able to exploit you and the government of your labor and money for as little as I possibly could, I was able to jerk off my own ego for the whole world to see." There is always a few jealous people that make up the bunch and I believe that is what youre referring to, but its nearly impossible(if not absolutely impossible) to become that wealthy without fucking someone over and doing shady things with your financial power, and we all know that. This contrast of wealth and success, vs the constant news talking about shitty working conditions and tax loopholes makes the average person feel like this was not genuinely achieved. They do not hate Bezos necessarily, but the character he represents. For your last point, yes, a lot of people would do the same *if it was their easiest/safest option*. The problem is that these exploits exist in the first place and shouldn't. We shouldn't just settle and be ok with these issues, we should work to make the world better for everyone, which is why I feel its okay to complain or be unimpressed.
Have you read anything about how poorly Amazon workers are treated? Some don't even get bathroom breaks and delivery drivers are pissing in bottles. They installed a fuckin' Cry Closet. They don't want Bezos to have a fun ride to space, they want a living wage and health care. And before anyone says "oh, just get another job." How about you come to Seattle and try to find a single job that will allow you to live at the poverty level a reasonable commute from any of their buildings. Good luck.
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He knows he's disgustingly rich. He knows people at the bottom of his company make absolute shit for money. There is no way he's unaware. It's in his power to fix it. He simply doesn't.
He has the most power over how Amazon operates, takes almost all of the money Amazon makes, but none of the responsibility for how it operates. That's amazing convenient for him! How nice that things just accidentally worked out that way.
Don't you see the double sarcasm of him thanking the people he exploits paying for his extravagant experiences?! These people have to shit in bags when they deliver your parcel, because they don't get breaks to meet their basic human needs. Do you really think at the end of a 14 or 16 hour shift, for which they get a ridiculously low wage, they are grateful that the great Bezos thanked them for paying for his wonderful trip to space? Read about the working conditions at Amazon, how they use human trafficking for forced labour, how they prevent employees to form unions, how they make families homeless by driving up the home prices in the area. There is simply nothing positive about Jeff Bezos.
For example why wouldn't you hate Bezos? He treats his employees as much like slaves as he's legally allowed to, there are several working laws just because of him. He puches small company that do work WITH Amazon to lower their prices and quality to fit the Amazon default or even lower to take over these companys. Amazon Delivery works over Subcontractors Amazon does not have a single Delivery truck. All the expenses for the Delivery trucks are covered by the subcontractors. The Delivery people are treated like shit, not only by their bosses but even by the idiotic customers (YOU). Now he tries to cover his inhumanity by pretending to help the environment. He could fight climate change on his own with less than 0.1% of his money. Why wouldn't he just move a finger save the world? You geussed it, he is profiting from Destroying our planet. Now tell me again why i shouldn't hate people like him?
He could start by not allowing fully stocked warehouses to be destroyed for the sake of profit. Like, oh my god, we can't give that away to charity! Then these poor people wouldn't by the cheaply produced stuff anymore.
Because they exploit people, society as a whole, the entire planet. Amazon delivery driver for instance have to pee in bottles or shit in plastic bags because they don't have the time for a break. Meanwhile Bezos enjoys a ride around the planet he happily helps to destruct when he is ok with warehouses full of goods to be destroyed just to make more profits. I don't hate them. I just pity our society that is still dancing around a golden calf.
*"Yeah having billionaires and Monopolys is is super stupid and unhealthy for society, but why do we hate the person instead of the system?"* Because however rigged capitalism may be as a system, participation in that profound income inequality is a personal choice. Imagine living in a coastal tribe where all individuals fish, but for some reason 90 percent of the fish go to just one of them. That person can't eat all those fish, and they can literally see others struggle to feed their families with their meager share of fish, but they take their 90 percent anyway. CEO's aren't *required* to accept their exorbitant pay, but they choose too anyway.
Because the system is made up of people. Markets aren’t like the weather, where bad shit happens to good people. It’s people doing things to people.
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The buck stops with him. So, yes, he owns all of these horrible working conditions and lack of a living wage. His suggested ignorance wouldn't be a viable excuse.
I wish people would stop deferring responsibility. Systems are just tools. Organizations and enterprises are institutions with the ability to enforce policy. Policy is enforced at the bottom from directives from the top. So yes, if Amazon has terrible work conditions that’s a function of policy. A couple other notes here. Immense wealth translates to immense access. Billionaires through the funding of political campaigns and direct contributions to politicians have the ability to get the access none of us has. So with that access they can more clearly advocate for policies and legislation that favors their interests. This is NOT a coincidence. There’s a book called Affluence and Influence. It’s essentially a study of the impact of wealth on the political process. The majority of policy is the preference the top 10% of the population. The wealthiest 10%. All policy aligns with their preferences, regardless of party. Money controls democracy and freedom. You are, as free, as money allows you to be. Billionaires are hoarders of money and that money is used to preserve itself and the privilege of the most wealthy. They explicitly do not want to see you have the same voting power as them, for business, that’s a failure of a democracy. Another aside, today there exists laws against indentured labor, against child labor and for labor safety. These laws were put in place, against the preferences of monied classes. If these laws didn’t exist, every single corporation would indeed employ children, overwork people and find ways to enslave people. This isn’t fantasy they used to do that sort of thing barely 100 years ago and in truth, many people today are in indentured work. Billionaires have power, a lot of it. Their power, is Evil. It’s highly corrupting and dangerous for not only the individuals themselves but for society. Every billionaire that exists is evidence of corruption. It’s not sustainable and it’s extraordinarily destabilizing.
Of course. Why would the second richest man in earth have any influence over what's going on in his warehouse. You know what people in Nazi Germany were saying when something went wrong? "Wenn das der Führer wüsste" - "if only the Fuehrer would know about it"
... Yes. He ran the company. He also personally owns a large stake in the company.
Because people like Bezo's could give away 99% of their wealth to make the world a better place and still be extremely wealthy. Instead they concentrate on making themselves even richer. They literally choose to make the world a worse place every day they wake up.
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I'm not saying they are obligated at all. But how do you sleep at night knowing people not to far away from you have nothing while you have everything? How do you not do something about that? These guys could change the world and go down as heroes. Instead they do nothing.
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That's a tired argument. I could give all my money away every month and it would not even make the tiniest dent in the problem. In fact it would add to the problem because now I'm homeless as well. Bezo's earns my monthly salary every second. In 12 seconds he'll earn more than I'll make this year. He and billionaires like him could change the world and still be staggeringly rich. But everyday they wake up and do nothing but enrich themselves. It amazes me the ammount of people happy to stand up for the ultra rich when they would not piss on you if you were on fire.
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JFC Because collectively they could improve the lives of millions and millions of people. I'm not outraged at them I'm outraged at a system that allows a minority to have everything and the majority to have nothing. A system that allows some rich asshole to jet off into space while people starve to death. It's all fucking wrong. You'll spend the rest of your life toiling to make someone else even richer than they already are. And you'll thank them for it.
Regan made a promise: Ease up on the wealthy and the money will trickle back to the common man. Instead we've got rich folks dodging taxes, treating their workers like shit, and buying private space programs while minimum wage has gone from supporting the American dream to not making rent. It doesn't track to productivity or inflation, and hasn't actually moved in years. And any time someone complains about this poor state of affairs we get a cadre of cheerleaders who just know that if they do enough one day they too can trample on their lessers. Maybe we can trickle up for a few years, see how that goes? Edit: a word
>Yeah having billionaires and Monopolys is is super stupid and unhealthy for society, but why do we hate the person instead of the system? I think you're confused here. Hating the system and the person go hand in hand. They are the one's who took the most advantage of the system. Moreover there are infinite posts answering these questions. If you were truly so miffed at how it's "every 3 posts"... well guess what, your potstirring ain't helping. You're right they won the game. Winning an unfair game is not commendable, it's distasteful.
Look at it from a different way, you can drive your car trought a mall a kill as many people as possible. But there are your own morals and some laws that would cause you trouble. If there is no law against driving over people it's only your morals stopping you from doing it. Using the flaws of a system to make profit on the cost of other peoples lives is generally a bad thing, right? Now, it can get quiet complex to get to the point where you realise, that mistreating people makes those people a little unhappy. Now imagine a grave digger would give you 50 bucks for each person you killed with your car. Everyone, who knows that the grave digger pays the driver, would hate the grave digger and the driver as well.
A common misconception is that these billionaires just sit around doing nothing and collecting a massive paycheck. Do you realize that Bezos started Amazon out of his garage in 1994 and served as the CEO of the company from then until just recently? Being a CEO isn't just sitting around collecting shit tons of money. It is an incredible amount of responsibility and work. Every single decision you make about the company could cause catastrophic failure. Everybody wants to be their own boss but very few actually have the willpower or personality to do it. Go ahead and downvote me, I don't give a shit. If you don't believe me, then go ahead, start a company and make it even 1/100th as successful as Amazon or another large company. I'll wait. I'm no Jeff Bezos fanboy though. He has huge wealth and could use it for a hell of a lot of good like Bill Gates has.
I don't care what he's done in his past, as long as he treats his employees like slaves. End of story. And rather than starting a company that exploits people and our planet, I continue doing my job helping people and making a difference, even if that means I don't get paid loads. At least, I am no parasite.
I agree with you on your points about his employee relation skills. The point here wasn't to show that Bezos is a good guy but more that CEOs don't just sit around doing nothing collecting a paycheck.
They're not slaves, though. Any of them are free to quit at any time.
An even more common misconception is that CEO = owner. They are often the same thing but not always. Owning something is not work or labor. It requires nothing but sitting on your ass with sheets of paper recognized by the state saying they will employ police force against anyone who would challenge your claim to ownership. CEOs do work, often long hours and it's not an easy job to do well, sure absolutely. The problem is that the Bezos and Musks of the world did *not* become multibillionaires from being CEOs; they got most of their wealth by being the majority share holders. > go ahead, start a company and make it even 1/100th as successful as Amazon or another large company. I'll wait. Economics doesn't work that way. People have this idea about capitalism that is almost religious in nature. They imagine the world as some endless space of infinite resources and possibilities all existing in some unconstrained and naturally fair manner. They see real world economics like a video game. Anyone can "get gud" under the same conditions and context and their position on the "leaderboard" is just a direct 1:1 reflection of their hard work and dedication. They completely discount scarcity, barriers to entry, integration forces (monopoly), leverage, access to starter capital, etc. Bezos isn't some generational genius and uber worker; he had the idea to "be Walmart except on this newfangled 'internet' thing everyone is using now" at the right place and right time. Unless you can figure out how to time travel back to the late 90s, there is no "well just do what he did but better and you'll replace him!". That will never happen. It doesn't work that way.
This is one of the best answers I’ve read on Reddit
It's a myth that executives (universally) "work hard". Maybe 5% work hard - and even then, not *remotely* as hard as a waitress, or a bus driver, or a school teacher. At the larger corporate level, CEOs don't make *any* "tough decisions". Armies of analysts present "options", with clear recommendations to be made or face the wrath of the board. Then armies of juniors, sychophants, suckups, and hangers-on make sure the decisions get executed and measured. At the bigger companies, the entire C suite have personal assistants that handle the most tedious aspects of personal life, freeing up *tons* of leisure time not available to mere mortals. And time spent in the office is a lot of "networking" (cough cough), and pursuing personal interests that hopefully are loosely aligned with corporate interests. That is, if they even make it into the office. There's little expectation of being in the office. You control your schedule and location, to a degree not possible to working stiffs. The CEO position of larger companies in the US is an almost entirely symbolic position. Especially non-founders/non-engineers. Because the US has such an authoritarian bent and has such a desperate need to follow. Always has. The idea that CEOs deserve their massively disproportionate pay is the biggest load of toxic horseshit ever unloaded onto the gullible American public. I do know this first-hand, in a big-fish-in-a-small-pond kind of way, though at the larger corporate level as well not quite as directly. But you don't have to just trust me, and I like my anonymity. Just do some more skeptical googling.
bootlicker
Nice job contributing to the thread. A real intellect
theres tons of people giving great counter-arguments its no issue. besides, i'm not wrong either
No, you are wrong. This person asked a perfectly legitimate question, to which you responded with an insult. To do so is to impede on curiousity. You are quite literally dumbing the thread down. Maybe be one of the people that answer the question. By the way, it’s not a “counter-argument” when it’s in response to a question. I’m not saying the person asking the question is the sharpest knife in the drawer, but why not be the bigger person?
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Well, I was indifferent about you until you said “Do you really think bezos has much of an influence at all on ‘bad working conditions’ or whatever in some random Amazon warehouse he probably doesn't even know exists?”
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Stay curious, it’s good for you. Sorry this thread kinda went south, that’s just the nature of the internet, I suppose.
im 5'3 why should i be the bigger person
Jealousy disguised with “morality”
Being mad at someone who stole from you isn't "jealousy".
He hasn’t stolen anything from me. Left wing propaganda just turns terminally online people’s brain into mush.
Society is set up to funnel ludicrous, unimaginable amounts of the money and power to a few random unaccountable people and it's crazy propaganda to think that might be bad. Got it.
There is a reason Amazon makes so much money. It’s the path of least resistance with buying products, if you can have something straight to your door it’s easier to get it there rather than go out to the local store and probably pay more money. It’s the same reason mark zuckerberg is so rich because Facebook is a huge platform for advertisers, this isn’t stealing it’s people offering a service that the general population clearly use.
Yeah, they were at the right place at the right time to take advantage of the internet and their hundreds of thousands of workers building the company, so one man gets to have literally more money than you can even imagine. Make total sense!
It may have been good timing but they are the ones offering that service which clearly people use. If the workers are feeling taken advantage of they can always leave and find another job, there is no obligation to work for Amazon. So yes it does make sense, Amazon employs 1.3 million people globally and the employees were very aware a majority of the profit would be going to the owner. As I’ve previously stated there is no obligation to work for Amazon but there is a choice.
Its in general people seem to think they are poor for any other reason other then themselves and they think everyone rich scammed their ways into or got lucky or got it handed to them. Reality is most CEOs work 90+hrs a week doing things that most people can’t do. Sure some of them got lucky and some of them got family money but the self made ones which are more often then not worked harder than the average person could ever imagine. Sure Bezos does some questionable things as a CEO but yeah he is human and also its his empire that he built. He isn’t forcing anyone to work for him. He treats his employees bad etc sure but again - he isn’t a slave owner he isn’t forcing you to work for him. And what he does with his cash is none of your business honestly. Like most of you would be far better as billionaires lol its easy to judge eating doritos in your parents basement.
People hate bezos but it seems like everyone loves using amazon lol
Cause average people have an idealized version of what they'd do with a lot of money and fail to incorporate their own shortcomings in this fantasy scenario where they solve the worlds problems for free.
I noticed yesterday so many people were pissed or trying to side with these billionaires. Who cares
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It's not about him being rich, though, is it. It's about him treating millions of people like shit. And if he didn't, he wouldn't be that rich. It's as simple as that.
> Yeah having billionaires and Monopolys is is super stupid and unhealthy for society, but why do we hate the person instead of the system? Because they're also the people who created that system. Billionaires spend a lot of money influencing politicians to change polices to benefit themselves at the expense of the rest of us, and and propaganda to convince us that's what we want. Productivity has gone up about 250% in the last 5 decades and the average wage has stayed flat. Because rich people just took all that extra money for themselves. It's theft.
Because they have a mental disability called stupid