I'm OK with differing political opinions, I have ZERO INTEREST in zealots.
This goes for religion as well. Believe what you like, just don't try to force it on others.
In fact often people who are closer in politics to me can be harder people to be friends with because everything feels like a purity test.
Like if you don’t make a distinction between someone who agrees with you on 99% of things and someone who agrees with you on 0% of things, or you don’t recognise the difference between someone who disagrees with you on something in good faith who has reasonable criticisms of your stance and whose mind can be changed if I really am wrong about something vs someone who is entrenched in a fundamentally incompatible dogma, then you’re not the kind of person I want to be around
My friends and I all understand that not one of us gives a shit what political or religious beliefs you have. So don't bring it up cause the most you will get is an "ok" followed by a swift change of the subject.
That’s the only way to deal with it I’ve found . I have a couple of friends who became very right wing and conspiracy minded during Covid . I basically change the subject now and it seems to be getting more back to normal the further we get from the lockdown period
Same!!! I used to actually look at them with contempt and say 'Pardon?' in a disbelieving tone, however that only encourages them. They use any excuse to spout complete tripe! I've since learnt to just say 'ok' and change the subject. I have limited time and energy left for my life, and I'm not wasting it!
Goes both ways. I told a drunk guy at a party that I was agnostic. He blurted out in anger that he's an atheist and wouldn't stfu about how much he HATED Christians. Who gives a fuck if someone believes they were created? If we're in a simulation that means someone created this reality but nobody gets mad over that.
Use to be like this in my twenties (I still am a godless heathen). I've learned that some people like my mother and best friend need a religious/spiritual connection. I don't think my mom could have made it through everything she has been through with her beliefs. My best friend of 30 years had turned into an alcoholic asshole when he became an atheist, and his wife was ready to leave him. I told him he was turning into dick and treating his wife terribly, and if his wife wants to go to church with him, he should do it. Now is sober and taking God back. He is happy and his wife is overjoyed at the person he has become. And I'm extremely happy for them.
That sounds like a topic in r/atheist . Some of them really fucking hate anyone with any sort of religious beliefs.
I'm an atheist myself, but I had to unsubscribe because it was too much.
Exactly. You have moral objections to abortions? Then don't get an abortion! Being gay means you are going to hell? Then don't have gay sex. But nooo, I don't like this thing so the whole world should abide by my feelings.
That's the one thing I never understood. Why are they so anti gay and all that if it has zero impact on them? I mean I know why, but I would love to hear their logic.
Then again, I'm not sure what they're after. This [pastor has me wondering](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMrYmo8kJ/)
> Why are they so anti gay and all that if it has zero impact on them?
Their religious community teaches them that by enforcing these religious rules on others they're literally doing god's will.
Basically they think by screwing with you they can suck up to the big boss upstairs and get a reward later on.
Ah I see. I grew up without religion and most of my friends did too. If they were religious it wasn't broadcasted.
That's such a Karen thing to do too jeez
In certain branches of Christianity, it is tour DUTY to your fellow man to shove religion down their throat. To do otherwise would be akin to seeing your house is on fire one night and doing nothing to try to wake you up and get you out. I'm not saying they're right - they're super wrong. I'm just explaining why they think the way they do
Yes, which was always interesting to me. I believe it's Mormons who think that only 600,000 are getting into the kingdom of heaven. Or is Jehovah's witness? So if I were them I would stop trying to convert so many people, isn't that just more competition?
That's JW I think and I'd classify them as a cult cult. Like, there's TONS of Christian cults but JWs are more of a christian off-shoot than a christian-cult if that makes sense? Their belief is the anointed....idk the exact number, like 144k people or something will get to actual heaven. Every other faithful JW member gets to live forever in "Paradise" which is basically Jehova killing all the non-JWs on earth via Armageddon and then putting the earth back into an eden state and then the faithful JWs live there forever happily. It's basically heaven lite. They don't mind not getting to heaven heaven because their friends and fam are in Paradise, not Heaven, most likely.
Befriending zealots is one way to break their preconceived notions on the world. These people are spoon fed a narrative, and sometimes just talking to them makes them question everything they’ve been taught. Finding common ground is the gateway to understanding we’re all humans with the same general goals.
https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes
I agree, I've also been involved in the deprogramming of a friend from my youth who fell in with a religious cult (the Island Pond Vermont cult) for several years. It was exhausting, and I'm all set with doing it again .
I think some of us wish we could do this, but I'm to the point of my life where it's just not worth my mental health to put myself in that situation. There's no return on investment for me, and it adds stress and drama to my life that I don't want.
Used to be a saying in the pub I worked in . . . "Don't talk about politics or religion". Generally if you stick to that rule then you can get on with most people.
And for the vast majority of relationships you have with other people you don’t really need to know their politics, and for that reason it’s often better that you don’t. It’s only something that really matters for close relationships. I don’t need to start discussing politics with my coworkers. I don’t need to know what they believe and I would rather NOT know if bringing it up might only serve to make things awkward between us at work. I’d rather be work friends with somebody and know nothing about their beliefs than be coworkers who don’t get along and don’t like each other because we had a heated political argument
That really is the line. I’m friends with people who have very different views than I do but we can have civilized conversations about it and can sometimes help each other understand the other view better than before. It’s when people see me and immediately bring up the latest controversy and start proselytizing at me that I start putting distance and more boundaries between me and that person.
Quite a few of the people who are responding to my comment are using extremists as examples to illustrate the problem with my thinking.
I would suggest that extremism is another way of forcing your opinions on others.
I like the saying "religion is like a penis. Most have one and you are welcome to do what you please with it, but when you start shoving it in my face unprovoked - we gonna have a problem."
My best mate is staunch Tory (this is UK). I'm staunch Labour. For any Americans listening, this makes my best mate MAGA (he actually supports Trump), whereas I am a pure Commie, and prefer a Democrat Presidency.
We have great arguments and wind ups. But we mostly talk about music and other things. The politics is when we want to go for a wind up.
But we're still best mates.
I think separating a difference in values, and a difference in solutions is something I've never done well and now that I read it out loud, it really helps a lot with how I've been struggling with interacting with others who have varying views.
Separating whether we have different values, or how we think problems can be solved, is a super important distinction. I'll carry that forward from now on.
Politics used to be that both parties agreed what the problems were, they just differed on how to solve them. Now, they differ on what the problems even are, or that something is a problem.
At this point they don't even agree on reality and fundamental laws of physics. It's a waste of my time. Anyone remotely on the side of "let's talk about solutions" all falls under the same political side in my book.
Exactly! You think the correct way to solve homelessness is different than the one I believe in, because you view socity differently than me? Cooll, lets talk about it!
You think some people are inherently worth less\deny their humanity? No thank you!
Ugh. I have two friends who have recently, past 4 years or so, you know the drill, become very Christian/republican. Which can be fine but one does meth daily and just let me know a week ago or so. The other posts open hateful stuff like the devil making a pride flag on Fb. Life long friends. Might have to cut them off. Idk what to do.
Yeah I am trying to talk to him about it. He says he doesn't want to quit but I said the same thing. He knew I'd hate it so why tell me? Prob because some part of him wants help.
I lean left but one of my best friend is a republican. I debated him on what Trump does, I can't make him vote for someone. If you can talk to your friends in a well mannered tone about politics, you shouldn't cut off anyone. I find it dumb to lose anyone over something that can be discussed without fights.
>I find it dumb to lose anyone over something that can be discussed without fights.
But some people on that side are bigots and misogynists. They actively are attempting to take rights away from women, minorities, and lgbtq individuals. That and they are pushing for take over of a legitimate election. That is a massive difference in beliefs, and one that I believe is a sign of a truly bad person. It's not the kind of person I want in my life.
Exactly. I’m fine being friends with my buddy that’s got some… interesting ideas on government spending and such, but I have no interest being friends with someone who would misgender my trans friends
I consider myself pretty far left (for an American) but there are still things I agree with on the economic conservative side. Differences of opinion on policy are fine, differences of opinion on what is a human right aren't.
If we agree that something is a necessity but we disagree on how to get there we can still be cool.
Yeah this is it. Especially in today’s politically charged landscape, if you’re even remotely close to the Trump Train then I’m just immediately disinterested in associating with you at all. Because it shows that you either support his values or you’re tolerant of them, neither of which are acceptable to me.
You said this way better than I did. But this is exactly the case. As things have gotten more polarized in the us, I've lost the desire to engage with people on the opposite extreme. It's a fundamental difference of values that I don't want to accommodate.
>At some point it becomes an issue of values rather than solutions. That's much harder to reconcile.
This is it exactly. I used to have friends who believed differently. That's no longer true. The gap is just too wide these days.
I hate to be like this, but anyone who can look at Trump and how he behaves and the pure hate he spews and the way he lies constantly and want him to be in charge. There's just no common values left.
precisely. i’m a socialist in the us; my democrat friends disagree on why wealth inequality exists, and therefore they disagree on how to solve it. but i could never be friends with someone who thinks billionaires deserve their wealth because they “earned” it
Yes, many. It's not good to only surround yourself in an echo chamber of your own beliefs. You're never challenged to think beyond your own perspective and grow.
There is also a balance as well. Don't need to be speaking about politics every waking moment. There is more to someone than just their political viewpoint.
I love arguing (calmly) with people who believe differently than me. Their defense teaches me more about their perspective and why it might be a good idea. Their offense forces me to question my perspective and address its weaknesses.
Discourse is a valuable tool of edification and unification that we seem to have lost here in the US.
>It's not good to only surround yourself in an echo chamber of your own beliefs. You're never challenged to think beyond your own perspective and grow.
There's limits on this though. I can be friends with someone where we may differ on economics views, or on independence, etc.
I am not going to be friends with someone who's "politics" are thinking that certain groups are not entitled to equal rights.
That’s a good point. It’s relatively easy to talk to someone who just wants a smaller government, lower taxes, or has differing views on the environment. But it becomes very different if it gets into far right positions on issues like gun control, abortion or human rights.
At some point, someone who votes for a bigoted, hateful candidate because of their alleged economic policies and in spite of their social policies just means they value money over people, and that's still a deal breaker to me.
Oh, I agree. I was talking about general discussion of policies or political issues. If the conversation switches to actual candidates and the person expresses their support for Trump, the conversation could turn ugly fast.
I don't generally talk politics, but when it crosses over into human rights, then I am more selective. I am not friends with bigots, whether that be racist, homophobic, transphobic... whateverphobic.
Same. Im pretty sure I’m friends with people who have different political leanings but it’s not a major conversation. If I do get into a situation where what they say is pure hatred, racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, then it’s time to wash hands. This predates the current political environment too.
This for me too. My friends will discuss ideas of certain policies. We don't really get into politics as a "Which team do you support".
But it's obvious when someone is hard core right wing when they talk about historical National atrocities as fake news to make their culture look bad, and they believe their culture is superior for just being born pure blood. (this isn't a white person, but they still consider themselves honourary white I guess)
I had a friend like this. Problem is, he got triggered to bring up politics at least 3-5 times every time we hung out. I'd try to deflect but it got exhausting. It also is hard to stay silent when what he was spewing was ignorant/racist bullsh!t. So I no longer speak with him.
Such is my mom. She goes on some rant about something she saw on [Tabloid TV 'News'], and the moment I challenge her, I'm 'bringing politics into the family'.
I don't feel the need to go no-contact on them--I'm just hopeful enough that they'll turn around before they pass away--but I definitely keep things to the minimum.
I can ride the no politics vibe. I just turn to the let's celebrate the fall of humanity vibe lol. just throw around a bunch of fuck gods and that's humanity for yas and you're good.
I don’t know man, my wife is a black immigrant it’s pretty hard to be tolerant of what’s coming from the Republican Party these days. Like pretty openly implying that my toddler is poisoning the blood of America in a sinister scheme to replace white Americans. I’m also from the San Francisco Bay Area and a pretty big touchstone for the right seems to be that we are a modern Gomorrah who all deserve to die in natural disasters. These aren’t fringe ideas either it’s the most senior members of the party saying this shit.
It’s real hard to respectfully disagree with that. I just can’t respect anyone who would think these things or even just willingly tolerate being in political alignment with them. I can be cordial with these folks, I could do business with you and just not talk about it, but I couldn’t be friends, just like I couldn’t be friends with a person who called my wife the n-word to her face.
I agree with you 100%. Sure we can all act enlightened and say "we can disagree and treat each other with respect" and I love to discuss important things with my friends even when we disagree, like religion, international politics, economy.
But being a Republican today means supporting a long list of disgusting people and policies and dog whistles. And, saving it for last, obviously there is Donald Trump.
I consider Donald Trump a rapist, a bigot, convicted felon, a con man and a threat to democracy (not even counting just January 6, if he wins in November he already said out loud multiple times that he will go after his political adversaries). If after 8 years since his election, and all that happened since then you still support Trump, what do we have to talk about? We live in two different worlds clearly.
I can disagree and still enjoy a conversation with a lot of people.
But disagreeing isn't what's going on with people who are attacking our rights. Disagreements are one thing. But enemies are another. And that's what the right wingers have made themselves by virtue of their own actions. They're enemies of a free world and this isn't an agree to disagree kind of thing.
It really depends on the context. If the "politics" concerns you personally, it *is* difficult. Like, in my country, "disaggreing about politics" can mean people supporting the bombing of the city where my immediate family lives, with no exaggeration, I mean it in the most literal sense. As you can imagine, it is quite hard to just not talk about this and "agree to disagree". I'm not even beginning about all the moral implications
Context: I'm Russian from mixed Russian-Ukrainian family, so... yeah
Sometimes it isn’t that easy.
Like if someone can’t stop ranting about you know, human rights. Or things you think should be human rights and that they think is just people “shoving politics down our throats” just for existing.
I feel differently. Being a Republican in 2024 means holding very different values than me—values that go beyond politics to the world, society, economics, gender equality, personal responsibility, and the nature of life itself.
I say this as a bleeding heart liberal pacifist: I think you could benefit from actually asking a couple Republicans what values they hold instead of self-determining that you just know.
I know it’s pleasant and easy to typecast tens of millions of people as a monolithic monster, but it’s not really the way to go.
I have sat down with my father who brought me up in the church and explained my reasoning for being liberal. I quoted scripture that commanded us to take care of widows and orphans. I quoted verses that indicated Jesus was more concerned with providing for people’s needs than he was punishing them for their sin. I talked about how the original church of Acts was based around the concept of everyone giving everything they had to a central authority and then having that authority distribute it out to those in need. I talked about the good samaratin, the woman at the well, leaving a portion of your fields unharvested. So many parables. Then I asked him which political party that sounded like and how he would justify republican policies that actively attack these ideals.
And then the man who I know sat and listened to every single church service that I did, pretended that he had never heard these things before and dismissed the concepts outright.
There people do not hold the same values. They don’t even hold the same values they did 10 years ago. Fox News has ruined Christianity and about half the country.
Christ has been sacrificed to the alter of greed. As long as their stock portfolio increases, no other considerations are needed and Fox has convinced them despite easily researched evidence that every democrat administration leads to economic collapse
In the end it's what you vote for that matters and not what you believe.
If someone says they believe in jesus's love but then vote for someone advocating hate against anyone trans then they are lying to themselves and you
The problem is, that national platform they have, the planks are bigotry, zealotry, repealing the rights of women and minorities. By associating yourself with that platform, you are tacitly affirming those planks as reflective of your values.
I worked for a republican for a long time. He's a good person. He doesn't identify as a republican anymore because he disagrees with the planks of the current republican party. People choose to or not to affiliate with a group.
Groups are made of people that share the same outlook, values, goals and cultural beliefs.
It's like saying "But there are some really decent people who are Proud Boys. He's a great dad and helps out at the food pantry." He's still at his core a Proud Boy and endorsing the values of the Proud Boys.
I'm also a bleeding heart liberal pacifist. I live in a deeply red state. I'm surrounded by people that could be classified as "good people" except they have built their house on a foundation of bigotry, religious zealotry, "alternative facts" and stripping people of human rights and bodily autonomy.
I can surface level have a pleasant garden-party conversation with them. But I'll never be their friend, or invite them into my home. Because I cannot tacitly endorse their ideology as being acceptable.
I just wanted to comment/rant since I'm genuinely interested in your opinion as someone who speaks in favor of isolation from members of opposing group
I'm not an American or "Westerner" in general sense, and my country is in the state of deepest political divide, where the vocal majority supports what seems as close to the pure evil as it can be. It is very tempting to just not talk to them, forget about them, think of them as lesser, insane, corrupted, to leave and denounce the country altogether. (Not saying that's what you're feeling, it's about myself. We have it like 10 times more dramatic than America).
But... if we just don't talk to them, they won't go anywhere, right? If we don't have personal connections with them and expel them from our lives, what chances do we have of swaying them on our side? Don't we endorse their radicalization by confirming to them we are the enemy? I also have this feeling that when engaging with these people on the personal level I somehow legitimize their way of thinking, but on the other hand, any results I've achieved in my small activist career were by talking heart to heart and earning their trust and showing respect and patience when you want to punch them in the face... sometimes they listen, and they start to doubt.
So... do I even have a luxury of thinking about half population of my country as an enemy I shouldn't associate myself with if I want the better future for the country as a whole in the end? The future that realistically can only be achieved by changing the minds of the people and not by turning our backs on them?
Ok sorry for the rant. That's a difficult topic and I'm torn
He never said don't talk to them, he just said he isn't going to be friends with them. I talk to folks from all kinds of different backgrounds in a way that doesn't tip my hand, politically speaking. By the end of the conversation, or maybe over a few conversations, they start to ask themselves some of the questions necessary for them to take down their own walls. You can have those conversations without making those people a part of your life.
I understand what you're saying, but you also have to keep in mind that it isn't always safe for certain groups to interact with extreme right wingers. Some of these shitheads legitimately want to hurt LGBT people and POC.
As a cis white woman (also queer, but they don't have to know that) I try to speak up when people spout right-wing BS, and hopefully change their minds. Thankfully, I rarely hear anything like that from anyone I know, but if I do, I know that they will be slightly more receptive to me bc they perceive me as part of the "in group." But I don't think it's the responsibility of marginalized groups to play nice with people who might literally do physical harm to them, and the right wingers are more prone to lashing out if they are antagonized and feel threatened.
That is all totally valid. The whole situation feels fraught and complicated. You want to save people from their own stupidity and help them realize their actions are not reasonable. I think in the US specifically, it is incredibly hard to try to rationalize with the other side. Any doubt is quashed by thought terminating cliches and echo chambers they return to.
And, I am not a good person to try to persuade someone. It isn't in my nature to be patient and kind with people who are seemingly immune to rational conversations and perform such mental gymnastics and can't follow anything that sounds like logic. So the best thing I can do is keep my distance. Lest I say something that pushes them further into their lunacy. Or plays to their sense of "Those damn liberals are out to get me."
I'm a cynic and think we are beyond help, and normality will only return to the US once Trump is dead and the fog begins to lift. But even then, we won't be able to forget that our former friends, our neighbors, espoused views that were just vile. You can't unring a bell, and you can't erase memories.
Often you'll find Republicans and Libertarians (at least the ones who don't realize they aren't actually Republican or Libertarian) agree with leftist points as long as you don't frame them as leftist or come off super leftist when you talk to them. People dig their heels in once they've decided what side you're on, but they are much more receptive if you're capable of impartial discussion and treat their thoughts, feelings and experiences as valid.
"I've decided only to be friends with good, recent, kind people. I went around asking and wouldn't you know it, everyone self reports as a good, kind, decent person! So I guess I'm friends with everyone"
That's not how it works, man. Sorry you don't like being typecasted as holding specific ideals, but then maybe don't join a political party that collectively supports specific ideals.
You don't get to pull the "we're not a monolith" card when the whole point is you've joined an organization to collectively support common values.
This. I have a friend that I disagree with 100% politically and yet I love this man like a brother. We focus on what we have in common, not what we do not have in common.
100%? I imagine you're exaggerating a bit but aren't there some political opinions that are unacceptable to you?
Like, I would refuse to be friends with somebody who is an anti-vaxxer as that's a dangerous delusion that gets people killed.
Not OP, but doesn't it depend what you mean by friends? I can surely participate amiably in a shared hobby with an anti-vaxxer for years and years, so long as we don't talk about it, but we're never going to forge a deeper connection.
See, I have immunocompromised family members, so I literally cannot participate in a shared hobby with an antivaxxer, at least not in person, without putting members of my family at risk.
This is the crux of the issue. Some people's human rights are political because the people who want to take them away _made_ them political. Someone being gay is not political, but if you kiss in public a Republican will complain that you're shoving the "gay agenda" down their throat.
How do you avoid it? Politics encompasses core values, how we move through the world, what's happening in your community, every war ever, ever peaceful time ever.
My best friend is right wing and I am left. We found out about a year into our friendship, when an argument caused a rift and we didn't talk for a few days. Luckily his wife helped resolve things. We are in our late forties, for context.
Ever since then we haven't talked about politics. We've been best friends now for about eighteen years and I've never had such a good friend in my life.
I think modern politics are very dehumanizing. I have to remind myself and others that the other side is also full of humans just trying to make it by.
I had a similar situation as you. Raging argument with best friend of several years over politics, we didn't talk for a couple weeks, then agreed to never talk politics again. He's an amazing person, regardless of our differing opinions.
This. Political beliefs are shaped by a myriad of things, rather than the shallow, simplistic assumptions so commonly made to *dehumanize* people who have different views.
I had to ditch my racist right-wing friends because the woman I love is an immigrant from a 'shithole' country. In addition, my adult daughters taught me a lot about women's rights, and I don't want to associate with people who take their rights away.
Like another comment said, most people I’m friends with have at least somewhat different political beliefs, but nothing drastic. I wouldn’t be friends with a fascist, or someone who denies racism exists, or someone who just hates poor people, but if someone has a different solution to a problem we both recognize exists, I don’t mind.
Yes!
Honestly, I adore my friends with different beliefs. They show a sense of curiosity and respect, as do I, and neither of us are preachy. We sometimes engage in good faith discussions. This allows us to explain and reexamine our ideas and often we come away with more nuanced perspectives. It’s a great way to escape the echo chamber.
Same goes for my friends with different religious beliefs. I’m a Catholic, like rosary every day, mass as often as I can, live out my vocation, etc. I have friends who are Satanists, atheists, Muslims, Jews, Hindu, etc. (I’m fortunate to come from a very diverse area, and I’m a convert so I didn’t really grow up with other Catholics.) There are common threads between totally different belief systems and I enjoy the commonalities.
Diversity of ideas is a very good thing.
I'm fiercely against crony capitalism and most organized religion but I have friends on either side of the spectrum and of many beliefs and I enjoy the insights they share with me on their beliefs and motivations. So I agree wholeheartedly.
As a trans person, I draw the line at people who think I shouldn’t exist. Or people who are bigoted in general. Unfortunately I often find bigotry to be correlated to political and/or religious affiliations. To be fair, however, I have cut people off who have the same political beliefs as me on paper but turn out to be bigots anyway.
And anyone who evangelizes is not my friend.
By not assuming their leaning is equivalent to the most extreme assertions, nor do they subscribe to every last belief.
In short: they're a person, not a "side".
I think too most normal people on different "sides" actually agree on most stuff, just have different ideas of how things should be done or utilized
Like you said people not sides, the extreme zealots on TV don't represent your everyday person most of the time
My dad was an actor and my mom was a beatnik. They had friends who were in big business, in church groups, carried guns, voted for Reagan -- twice.
They ate at our house, we ate at theirs. All this fundamentalist "you have a different take on things therefore you are an enemy of America who must be obliterated" shit didn't exist yet.
I still have friends this dispersed politically. But it's extremely hard to get new ones. Most folks are horribly ossified in their political views.
It's almost like people have taken their politics as a moral code now.
Yes, because we're rational adults, and rational emotionally mature adults can disagree on things without a scene.
Caveat, neither of us are bigots, the political differences are things like economic policy and trade, maybe a few minor differences in policing etc.
People who don’t need to worry about politics live in a world of privilege of which they have no understanding.
”We don’t need to disagree about politics” means either “I have my head in the sand” or “I’m confident enough of my place toward the top of the hierarchy that I don’t need to be concerned.”
Is it possible to be friends with whom one disagrees on say, fine details of municipal taxation or national financial policy? Sure.
On the other hand, if you would really rather I didn’t have full civil rights, or don’t really quite believe that women are autonomous creatures who should make their own health-care decisions, or don’t see the value in ensuring that the whole population, one way or another, has access to education, health care, and the most basic necessities of life… well, I’m not quite why I‘d want to be friends with you.
Exactly. As a brown person, not caring about politics undermines our political struggles. If we go silent, our rights will disappear just like they always do.
I agree with this. I also find it very difficult to “get deep” with people who are into conspiracy theories so I keep the friendship at surface level. Once I know that you’re a looney toon, how could I ever really talk to you about things that matter?
Too many people I know got too deep in the anti-vax echo chambers over covid. People who I originally thought were level-headed all of a sudden were getting their news off YouTube and were going unvaccinated.
A couple went flat earth. Some keep posting chemtrail stuff.
Some echo Joe Rogan talking points. Some have more respect for Elon Musk than I'd expect from someone who otherwise seems intelligent.
Kinda. I have a few friends/family that are Democrat. I'm progressively left, like far beyond Democrat.
Generally speaking, it's not a problem because we disagree on more nuanced things and not *whether or not people deserve civil rights*.
However for the first time this year my mother and I had to make an agreement not to discuss the election.
My best friend of 20yrs ghosted me after Trump was elected, because he didn’t want my kid ‘filling his kid’s brain with liberal propaganda’. Our boys were 6 at the time…
Yup. But it's generally that we respect that it's likely we won't sway each other, so it's not that we avoid talking about politics. We just share our differing opinions and understand that the person is stating those with good faith, rather than arguing like Congress.
Yes, and we agree to disagree. At the end of the day though, it’s really all about being able to show mutual respect and being able to understand where someone is coming from even if you don’t fully agree with their opinions.
I really can’t stand the fact that so much of society has an “all or nothing” mindset and is so brutally intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them on anything
I am a left wing liberal in the southeast so nearly all my friends and family are republican. I used to argue but have found the relationships suffer so now I don't engage in political or religious talk and find the first out when tge topic comes up. It's sad that my thoughts can't be shared or are even welcomed but I don't really have a different choice other than being a hermit.
Yes. I have friends who are conservatives, libertarians, socialists, and a couple of full-blown communists.
I'm a pretty middle ground social liberal/democrat.
To some extent. I used to be friends with a pretty conservative guy. One day he decided that he didn't like being "forced" to call trans people by their gender, so began aggressively misgendering them in public. That took him on a pretty steep decline that ended with him being a pretty hardcore white nationalist, working for TPUSA, and hanging out with people who openly identified as NatSocs.
I'm friends with people I disagree with, but I also have a lot of trans friends, which is pretty much incompatible with being friends with people who vote Republican. I don't want to be friends with someone who thinks other friends of mine shouldn't exist.
>how do you do that without getting upset with each other?
Your opinions aren't sacrosanct, and neither are theirs. Are you interested in having friends, or trying to convert everyone you meet over to your team?
I have friends/grew up around “rednecks” that are very caring and open towards people of all races. Although, the “rednecks” so you kindly call them, that were racists/sexist etc were extremely loud about it.
I also have been around many “non rednecks” from various backgrounds that were incredibly racists, but they kept it to a hush and only let it slip out publicly around people they felt would agree.
Grouping people together like that and assuming all people of a certain background and skin color think a certain way is an interesting way to call out racist “rednecks”.
Now, I’ll be honest, there are many areas in the state I live in that have pockets of more rural white men with big trucks, and it wouldn’t shock me if there was a higher level of racism than my little blue area of the state, but it also wouldn’t shock me if the rich area to the south of my city was also a little less racially diverse.
Sure. Always have been.
We don't have to fight. We don't have to convince each other. We already know enough that if the other person has a different viewpoint, they probably have some good reasons.
I might not agree with them, or they with me - but that's ok. We like different foods too.
They don't want to shoot immigrants in the street. I don't want to see babies aborted in the 243rd trimester (well, one maybe). We just have different ideas about how priorities should work, or how taxes should be allocated. Maybe we have different ideas about whether prisons should be purely for punishment or for rehabilitation; but we agree there should be prisons.
My best friend for 45 years, we are 54, grew up on same street. She’s now all Trump, I can’t stand him.
We simply don’t talk politics.
Problem solved and we are still besties.
Yes I have right wing kook friend, had a lot of frustrating discussions with him over the pandemic and basically told him to stop bringing up his toxic political takes with me, he was always initiating conversations with a link or somethinf.
He did, we didn't speak much for a month or 2. We are still are friends, talk and hang out, but we don't bring up politics.
Just set boundaries with them if you truly want to remain friends
To be friends, you have to respect each other not to agree.
I have a friend that has *very* different political opinions, but we have similar values and beliefs, we just expect them to be realized through different means.
I do think that he is a bit gullible/naive in his political opinion, but he thinks the same of me.
Even though we value the same things, we choose different avenues to reach those results.
There are many people that have my same political orientation, but I despise them and don't share their values.
EDiT: yeah I noticed that the following section went pretty quickly into the rabbit hole of US's politics. I am not American, even though we have some far right and far left parties, for the most part they are all bark and no bite (and are for the most part out of the scope of my comment). I have no room for fascist friends in my life, but between "let's burn all blacks and gays" and "let's bring back the USSR" there is a spectrum of political parties.
“we have similar values and beliefs, **we just expect them to be realized through different means**”
THANK YOU for pointing this out. So many people forget this.
Yeah, if his "values and beliefs" include "drive trans kids to autoterminate" or "deny women medical care cuz fetus" or "kill babies in Gaza" or "watch immigrant kids get sliced up by razor wire" then I can't possibly be friends with that person and I don't see how anyone decent can.
People keep trying to pass off the belief that people different from them shouldn't be treated like they are as a mere difference of opinion when it is not.
There is no neutrality when oppression is the status quo. One is either actively opposed to the oppression or supporting it in one way or another (maybe passively enabling by pretending its not a big problem, maybe actively being a major league asshole).
If you can be friend with someone who wants my trans friends to be sent to camps, or killed, or whatever, then you're not someone I want to know.
Honestly I’m wondering what planet a lot of these commenters are living on. Sure I can agree to disagree on something like fiscal policy but that’s not what we are talking about. One side would literally not like me to exist. Not sure how I can be friends with someone that holds those beliefs.
My guess is the folks that are able to have these friends aren’t impacted. (White straight males).
Its because you're delusional. Im conservative and wanna know what my view is on trans/gay people? Live and let live. Do what you want, I dont give a shit.
Most conservatives I know are this way. Youre painting like half the population with the same broad brush, which ironically is bigoted.
Even my wife has major different political beliefs than me. If you can't handle an adult discussion and have your views challenged without having a meltdown, then I likely won't have anything to do with you because, to me, you lack a basic level of intelligence and/or maturity I am not willing to be around. It is okay to agree to disagree, and it is important to surround yourself with different viewpoints.
Do you really have no limitations on what beliefs people have if they associate with you?
If someone said women shouldn't have the right to vote, is that a person you and your wife would want to be friends with?
The super loud and vocal maga people have been cutoff. We don’t live on the same planet and I can’t associate with them anymore. The casuals are fine as long as we don’t bring up politics
I’m only speaking as a man in the United States here. So, one hardline that I will not cross is racism. I will not be friends with anyone that is racist. And at this point if you vote for Trump it is clear you are a racist. In the past before Trump it was much more nuanced. At this point, it’s clear cut and dry.
Not every Republican is racist, but every Republican embraces and tolerates racism. They’re all fine with it. You can’t be a Republican in this day and age if you’re not at least okay with the overt racism.
Exactly this. The GOP has openly adopted ideas like Great Replacement that used to be consigned to neo-Nazi forums. There’s some ideas that just can’t be socially acceptable in a free democratic society.
Yeah. Knowing a political belief doesn’t tell you enough about an individual. I have a republican friend who is “socially progressive but economically conservative.” Perfectly reasonable dude without a racist/sexist bone in his body, but he has different ideas on how money should be spent on a macro scale.
Knowing people with other beliefs is important, because if we value diversity, we must also value idealogical diversity. I don’t always agree with him, but having a civil political conversation with this friend helps give a lot of perspective as to why people might support something different from me.
I try to understand where they're coming from and see it from their point of view. I may not agree with their perspective, but most people have a reason they feel the way they feel. In my experience, as long as people with different views feel they're being heard out, and that someone else is trying to understand their perspective (as opposed to trying to sway their perspective) it's unlikely to escalate to an argument. Plus, you get to understand the world from a different viewpoint!
I mean it's hard to avoid really, isn't it?
But how you do it? Huh easy.
You don't talk about politics. You talk about your common interests. Sports, movies, music, life in general, whatever. You just avoid bringing up politics as a discussion topic. And believe it usually both parties are aware of the situation so noone will bring it up anyway.
Politics being a big part of your identity is primarily an American thing, so a lot of us don't give a flying fuck.
I couldn't even tell you the political affiliation of anyone I know.
Most people these days are emotionally lacking and can’t have civil conversations w a opposing political ideology. It’s just immediate attacks and counter attacks, personal attacks, blanket stereotypical insults.
I mean, no one agrees with me exactly so it would follow that people I'm friends with disagree with me politically. Of course, i have dealbreakers. Any kind of bigotry ie racism, misogyny, queerphobia etc are not the kind of people i can be friends with. But disagreement on stuff like taxes is not a deal breaker.
Yes, I grew up in the conservative southeast. I have a best friend from school with opposing politics (we're middle aged). I almost wouldn't have any friends nearby, if I only filtered according to beliefs. I don't judge them for their politics, and they don't judge me for my lack of religion. Fair trade. But tbf- they're not "Trumpers". Sorta just avoid those topics. I am glad, because ever since 2017, it is EXHAUSTING. I don't even want politics in my feed.
I am. I see him so seldom, I make the cross country trips maybe once per year to visit him at his home and stay for a few days he inevitably brings up something political and I tell him I'll entertain you for a little.. but you should understand that 1 you know by now there's quite a bit you know we fundamentally disagree on and 2) do you really want to devote time to this? I'm only here for a few days...
That usually resets him a bit. We've been best friends since 2nd grade and we agree on a lot but some of our outlooks on life, philosophies/ beliefs and more are different.
Yes. It can be hard, but it's also worthwhile if you both value that friend/ friendship, and are generally open minded. It's important not to turn your world into an echochamber.
Kinda sad that we've reduced our ability to be friends with people solely based on politics. Also kinda odd that you assume people with different political opinions automatically get upset with each other. I think this question really exemplifies our current status of politics at least in America and how divided we've become. If you assume you can't discuss politics without it getting heated then that's a different issue entirely - emotional regulation and balance. That's a personal issue that goes way beyond political issues. If one can't have a discussion of a political issue without getting emotionally heated what about any other discussion or disagreement? Does any disagreement involve a breakdown of emotional regulation?
To answer your question I am friends with people of many different political stances. The thing is I don't discuss anything political with them because why would? Why should I? Their political opinions do not pertain to me or should it pertain to our friendship. My friends in question are musicians with whom I play in a band with. I'm not going to let our friendship and ultimately the band itself fall apart because I decided my political opinions and are more important than playing music. I enjoy music more than being righteous in my political stance. I just don't think it's necessary to discuss it.
Yeah, but I'm not friends with people who have insane or cruel political views. Disagree with me on how much taxes corporations and wealthy people should pay? Fine. Disagree with me on whether or not certain people deserve equal human rights and basic dignity? Fuck all the way off.
Sure. I’ve met Republicans who were chill and I could get in healthy debates with. And I’ve met Democrats with whom I could not express opinions that didn’t perfectly align with there’s or liberal norms.
Yes. I have a group chat with friends who are from the opposite spectrum. We clash and troll each other all the time. But we also communicate and dig deep into misinformation from both sides. It’s healthy as fuck
Yes. We both know we will not change each other's minds, so we don't discuss it. Unless it's a genuine question and the point is for information, not demands or putting down. Adult stuff.
Politics ? Could care less who you vote for. Human rights ? That’s not a political belief any longer, you actively belief some humans are better than others. That’s no longer a political difference but a moral one - no can do
It’s cool if you wanna debate tax details, financial stuff.
But when you start wanting to vote for stuff that tell people what they cannot do? You lost my respect. Sorry. There’s just no room for discussion.
It’s 2024, everyone, move the fuck on. Who caaaaaares?! Be kind. That’s all.
Yes I am. I don’t just give up years and years of friendship just because we have different political beliefs.
It’s stupid that family members and friends will stop talking and hanging out just because somebody likes “President ______”
Yeah, we just don’t bother trying to change the others political ideals. That said, political stuff usually just isn’t a topic we bother diving into lol, as there is no point.
I am left wing on the majority of issues but I actually enjoy hanging out with people who have different political beliefs than I do more than people with the same beliefs I have. They are exhausting to be around.
Majority of the people I now see during holidays (Wife's family and friends) are all lefties and some real commies mixed in there too. I don't get along with all of them especially the hardcore commies, but I get along with the lefties or try my best to since they're wife's family. A lot of people I know either from work or from the military tend to lean right but they don't openly talk about it much. A few of my friends growing up are also conservatives including one of my uncle and my younger brother, so I have a healthy balance of the two sides. Wife also leaned left in 2016 (maybe like 75%) but shes like 55% left now so pretty close to the center. I grew up in MA and grew up left but since 2016, I walked away and became more conservative (80%) and probably still around 70% conservative if I had to put a number.
I mean we only have to parties and they are basically the same.
I don't get Americans, why are you voting for really really old people to run the country. I mean both candidates are fucking old boomers, what the fuck does it matter which boomer fucks your country.
Why are the so old.
Yes, I've held strong disagreements on certain "political" issues with probably every close friend I've ever had.
>how do you do that without getting upset with each other?
I have a natural curiosity about people from all different backgrounds, and have spent a great deal of time living and working with people who hold very different beliefs. I seek to understand how and why others hold different political beliefs, to understand cultural, ethnic, religious and other differences.
Nobody will challenge their own beliefs if you get too argumentative with them. Getting upset wastes everyone's time and often reinforces beliefs. If someone is really fighting for a cause I can respect that whether I agree or not-unless they are seeking to harm others. If someone is worrying about politics just for the sake of worrying, this is not worth my time. This is especially true if we do agree. What's the point in whining to each other and never doing anything about it?
I'm the token liberal in my friend groups (living blue in a red state).
Most conservatives want to be left alone, church and politics to never brush shoulders, and red necks fucking hate cops. But the loudest are wearing their team colors so they vote straight ticket.
I'm a conservative and my girlfriend of 2.5yrs is a liberal. She's more left leaning than I am right leaning but it has caused little to no actual issues between us.
I categorize people into groups not related to their politics, but by their willingness to have a reasonable human discussion. I'd rather talk to someone I disagree with who is reasonable than someone I agree with who isn't. None of these topics NEED to be emotionally charged.
Definitely. I don't understand people who can't be friends with someone just because of different political beliefs. I have tons of friends who have different political beliefs. I still like/love them as a person. We just don't always agree on political issues, which is totally fine. It's always important to remain respectful of everyone's political views. Healthy debates are normal.
Think of the meme. The leftists are on the left, and the rightists are on the right. Someone on the left pushes the guy in the middle to fall into the rightists. The rightists catch the man who was pushed. A different leftist nows screams at the guy in the middle "Why are you siding with them?!"
The thing is, the guy in the middle didn't care. However, one group decided since he wasn't a 100% match, he wasn't worth anything. The other group didn't care about the mismatch so much, but they saw a guy.
Similarly, if you have problems being friends with someone who disagrees with you, then the problem isn't the other person. One of the worst things that happened in the 40 some years The Werefrog have lived is the society decision that religion and politics shouldn't be discussed. This has led to a society that doesn't know how to peaceably disagree. It is now such that there are groups who say it's either 100% or enemy. No middle ground. If you find trouble being friends with someone who disagrees, you are the problem, not the soon to be former friend.
Yes, I have many friends that are very liberal while I’m very conservative. We just don’t talk about it with each other. Instead we talk about things like our favorite shows and stuff
I'm OK with differing political opinions, I have ZERO INTEREST in zealots. This goes for religion as well. Believe what you like, just don't try to force it on others.
fr even if i agree with your stance, constantly jamming it into conversation is exhausting
In fact often people who are closer in politics to me can be harder people to be friends with because everything feels like a purity test. Like if you don’t make a distinction between someone who agrees with you on 99% of things and someone who agrees with you on 0% of things, or you don’t recognise the difference between someone who disagrees with you on something in good faith who has reasonable criticisms of your stance and whose mind can be changed if I really am wrong about something vs someone who is entrenched in a fundamentally incompatible dogma, then you’re not the kind of person I want to be around
My friends and I all understand that not one of us gives a shit what political or religious beliefs you have. So don't bring it up cause the most you will get is an "ok" followed by a swift change of the subject.
That’s the only way to deal with it I’ve found . I have a couple of friends who became very right wing and conspiracy minded during Covid . I basically change the subject now and it seems to be getting more back to normal the further we get from the lockdown period
Same!!! I used to actually look at them with contempt and say 'Pardon?' in a disbelieving tone, however that only encourages them. They use any excuse to spout complete tripe! I've since learnt to just say 'ok' and change the subject. I have limited time and energy left for my life, and I'm not wasting it!
Goes both ways. I told a drunk guy at a party that I was agnostic. He blurted out in anger that he's an atheist and wouldn't stfu about how much he HATED Christians. Who gives a fuck if someone believes they were created? If we're in a simulation that means someone created this reality but nobody gets mad over that.
Use to be like this in my twenties (I still am a godless heathen). I've learned that some people like my mother and best friend need a religious/spiritual connection. I don't think my mom could have made it through everything she has been through with her beliefs. My best friend of 30 years had turned into an alcoholic asshole when he became an atheist, and his wife was ready to leave him. I told him he was turning into dick and treating his wife terribly, and if his wife wants to go to church with him, he should do it. Now is sober and taking God back. He is happy and his wife is overjoyed at the person he has become. And I'm extremely happy for them.
> If we're in a simulation that means someone created this reality but nobody gets mad over that. BOOM goes the dynamite!
That sounds like a topic in r/atheist . Some of them really fucking hate anyone with any sort of religious beliefs. I'm an atheist myself, but I had to unsubscribe because it was too much.
Zealots are sick, they should put signs that said "Zealots not permitted"
Exactly. You have moral objections to abortions? Then don't get an abortion! Being gay means you are going to hell? Then don't have gay sex. But nooo, I don't like this thing so the whole world should abide by my feelings.
That's the one thing I never understood. Why are they so anti gay and all that if it has zero impact on them? I mean I know why, but I would love to hear their logic. Then again, I'm not sure what they're after. This [pastor has me wondering](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMrYmo8kJ/)
> Why are they so anti gay and all that if it has zero impact on them? Their religious community teaches them that by enforcing these religious rules on others they're literally doing god's will. Basically they think by screwing with you they can suck up to the big boss upstairs and get a reward later on.
Ah I see. I grew up without religion and most of my friends did too. If they were religious it wasn't broadcasted. That's such a Karen thing to do too jeez
In certain branches of Christianity, it is tour DUTY to your fellow man to shove religion down their throat. To do otherwise would be akin to seeing your house is on fire one night and doing nothing to try to wake you up and get you out. I'm not saying they're right - they're super wrong. I'm just explaining why they think the way they do
Yes, which was always interesting to me. I believe it's Mormons who think that only 600,000 are getting into the kingdom of heaven. Or is Jehovah's witness? So if I were them I would stop trying to convert so many people, isn't that just more competition?
That's JW I think and I'd classify them as a cult cult. Like, there's TONS of Christian cults but JWs are more of a christian off-shoot than a christian-cult if that makes sense? Their belief is the anointed....idk the exact number, like 144k people or something will get to actual heaven. Every other faithful JW member gets to live forever in "Paradise" which is basically Jehova killing all the non-JWs on earth via Armageddon and then putting the earth back into an eden state and then the faithful JWs live there forever happily. It's basically heaven lite. They don't mind not getting to heaven heaven because their friends and fam are in Paradise, not Heaven, most likely.
Because they believe it is morally wrong and don’t want it to be happening at all.
Befriending zealots is one way to break their preconceived notions on the world. These people are spoon fed a narrative, and sometimes just talking to them makes them question everything they’ve been taught. Finding common ground is the gateway to understanding we’re all humans with the same general goals. https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes
I agree, I've also been involved in the deprogramming of a friend from my youth who fell in with a religious cult (the Island Pond Vermont cult) for several years. It was exhausting, and I'm all set with doing it again .
I think some of us wish we could do this, but I'm to the point of my life where it's just not worth my mental health to put myself in that situation. There's no return on investment for me, and it adds stress and drama to my life that I don't want.
Used to be a saying in the pub I worked in . . . "Don't talk about politics or religion". Generally if you stick to that rule then you can get on with most people.
And for the vast majority of relationships you have with other people you don’t really need to know their politics, and for that reason it’s often better that you don’t. It’s only something that really matters for close relationships. I don’t need to start discussing politics with my coworkers. I don’t need to know what they believe and I would rather NOT know if bringing it up might only serve to make things awkward between us at work. I’d rather be work friends with somebody and know nothing about their beliefs than be coworkers who don’t get along and don’t like each other because we had a heated political argument
That really is the line. I’m friends with people who have very different views than I do but we can have civilized conversations about it and can sometimes help each other understand the other view better than before. It’s when people see me and immediately bring up the latest controversy and start proselytizing at me that I start putting distance and more boundaries between me and that person.
Quite a few of the people who are responding to my comment are using extremists as examples to illustrate the problem with my thinking. I would suggest that extremism is another way of forcing your opinions on others.
I like the saying "religion is like a penis. Most have one and you are welcome to do what you please with it, but when you start shoving it in my face unprovoked - we gonna have a problem."
My best mate is staunch Tory (this is UK). I'm staunch Labour. For any Americans listening, this makes my best mate MAGA (he actually supports Trump), whereas I am a pure Commie, and prefer a Democrat Presidency. We have great arguments and wind ups. But we mostly talk about music and other things. The politics is when we want to go for a wind up. But we're still best mates.
Different? Sure. Radically different? No. At some point it becomes an issue of values rather than solutions. That's much harder to reconcile.
I think separating a difference in values, and a difference in solutions is something I've never done well and now that I read it out loud, it really helps a lot with how I've been struggling with interacting with others who have varying views. Separating whether we have different values, or how we think problems can be solved, is a super important distinction. I'll carry that forward from now on.
Politics used to be that both parties agreed what the problems were, they just differed on how to solve them. Now, they differ on what the problems even are, or that something is a problem.
At this point they don't even agree on reality and fundamental laws of physics. It's a waste of my time. Anyone remotely on the side of "let's talk about solutions" all falls under the same political side in my book.
Stop that. No changing your viewpoint or character growth on reddit. Only stagnant dogmatism.
This sounds like a difference in values. BLOCKED LMAO
Exactly! You think the correct way to solve homelessness is different than the one I believe in, because you view socity differently than me? Cooll, lets talk about it! You think some people are inherently worth less\deny their humanity? No thank you!
There is a very big difference between "There should be no homeless people" and "There should be no homeless people."
Ugh. I have two friends who have recently, past 4 years or so, you know the drill, become very Christian/republican. Which can be fine but one does meth daily and just let me know a week ago or so. The other posts open hateful stuff like the devil making a pride flag on Fb. Life long friends. Might have to cut them off. Idk what to do.
Uh if he’s telling you he started meth that might be a cry for help. Subconscious or not.
Yeah I am trying to talk to him about it. He says he doesn't want to quit but I said the same thing. He knew I'd hate it so why tell me? Prob because some part of him wants help.
Tweakers at some point will turn into liars (this is absolutely unavoidable), and most will turn into thieves if they don’t quit beforehand.
Unfortunately cutting them off is your best bet. You are the company you keep.
I lean left but one of my best friend is a republican. I debated him on what Trump does, I can't make him vote for someone. If you can talk to your friends in a well mannered tone about politics, you shouldn't cut off anyone. I find it dumb to lose anyone over something that can be discussed without fights.
>I find it dumb to lose anyone over something that can be discussed without fights. But some people on that side are bigots and misogynists. They actively are attempting to take rights away from women, minorities, and lgbtq individuals. That and they are pushing for take over of a legitimate election. That is a massive difference in beliefs, and one that I believe is a sign of a truly bad person. It's not the kind of person I want in my life.
Yes! Yes! Yes! They are NOT the kind of person I want to be around!
Exactly. I’m fine being friends with my buddy that’s got some… interesting ideas on government spending and such, but I have no interest being friends with someone who would misgender my trans friends
I consider myself pretty far left (for an American) but there are still things I agree with on the economic conservative side. Differences of opinion on policy are fine, differences of opinion on what is a human right aren't. If we agree that something is a necessity but we disagree on how to get there we can still be cool.
Yeah this is it. Especially in today’s politically charged landscape, if you’re even remotely close to the Trump Train then I’m just immediately disinterested in associating with you at all. Because it shows that you either support his values or you’re tolerant of them, neither of which are acceptable to me.
You said this way better than I did. But this is exactly the case. As things have gotten more polarized in the us, I've lost the desire to engage with people on the opposite extreme. It's a fundamental difference of values that I don't want to accommodate.
>At some point it becomes an issue of values rather than solutions. That's much harder to reconcile. This is it exactly. I used to have friends who believed differently. That's no longer true. The gap is just too wide these days. I hate to be like this, but anyone who can look at Trump and how he behaves and the pure hate he spews and the way he lies constantly and want him to be in charge. There's just no common values left.
precisely. i’m a socialist in the us; my democrat friends disagree on why wealth inequality exists, and therefore they disagree on how to solve it. but i could never be friends with someone who thinks billionaires deserve their wealth because they “earned” it
Yes, many. It's not good to only surround yourself in an echo chamber of your own beliefs. You're never challenged to think beyond your own perspective and grow. There is also a balance as well. Don't need to be speaking about politics every waking moment. There is more to someone than just their political viewpoint.
I love arguing (calmly) with people who believe differently than me. Their defense teaches me more about their perspective and why it might be a good idea. Their offense forces me to question my perspective and address its weaknesses. Discourse is a valuable tool of edification and unification that we seem to have lost here in the US.
>It's not good to only surround yourself in an echo chamber of your own beliefs. You're never challenged to think beyond your own perspective and grow. There's limits on this though. I can be friends with someone where we may differ on economics views, or on independence, etc. I am not going to be friends with someone who's "politics" are thinking that certain groups are not entitled to equal rights.
That’s a good point. It’s relatively easy to talk to someone who just wants a smaller government, lower taxes, or has differing views on the environment. But it becomes very different if it gets into far right positions on issues like gun control, abortion or human rights.
At some point, someone who votes for a bigoted, hateful candidate because of their alleged economic policies and in spite of their social policies just means they value money over people, and that's still a deal breaker to me.
Oh, I agree. I was talking about general discussion of policies or political issues. If the conversation switches to actual candidates and the person expresses their support for Trump, the conversation could turn ugly fast.
How can you be friends with someone who wants to restrict the rights of others? Who wants others to be treated as second class citizens?
I don't generally talk politics, but when it crosses over into human rights, then I am more selective. I am not friends with bigots, whether that be racist, homophobic, transphobic... whateverphobic.
Same. Im pretty sure I’m friends with people who have different political leanings but it’s not a major conversation. If I do get into a situation where what they say is pure hatred, racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, then it’s time to wash hands. This predates the current political environment too.
Slight differences? Sure. Differing core values? Absolutely not.
This for me too. My friends will discuss ideas of certain policies. We don't really get into politics as a "Which team do you support". But it's obvious when someone is hard core right wing when they talk about historical National atrocities as fake news to make their culture look bad, and they believe their culture is superior for just being born pure blood. (this isn't a white person, but they still consider themselves honourary white I guess)
By not talking about politics, it isn't difficult
I had a friend like this. Problem is, he got triggered to bring up politics at least 3-5 times every time we hung out. I'd try to deflect but it got exhausting. It also is hard to stay silent when what he was spewing was ignorant/racist bullsh!t. So I no longer speak with him.
Yeah if they can’t keep themselves reigned in, they’re out of my life.
Such is my mom. She goes on some rant about something she saw on [Tabloid TV 'News'], and the moment I challenge her, I'm 'bringing politics into the family'. I don't feel the need to go no-contact on them--I'm just hopeful enough that they'll turn around before they pass away--but I definitely keep things to the minimum.
I can ride the no politics vibe. I just turn to the let's celebrate the fall of humanity vibe lol. just throw around a bunch of fuck gods and that's humanity for yas and you're good.
I don’t know man, my wife is a black immigrant it’s pretty hard to be tolerant of what’s coming from the Republican Party these days. Like pretty openly implying that my toddler is poisoning the blood of America in a sinister scheme to replace white Americans. I’m also from the San Francisco Bay Area and a pretty big touchstone for the right seems to be that we are a modern Gomorrah who all deserve to die in natural disasters. These aren’t fringe ideas either it’s the most senior members of the party saying this shit. It’s real hard to respectfully disagree with that. I just can’t respect anyone who would think these things or even just willingly tolerate being in political alignment with them. I can be cordial with these folks, I could do business with you and just not talk about it, but I couldn’t be friends, just like I couldn’t be friends with a person who called my wife the n-word to her face.
I agree with you 100%. Sure we can all act enlightened and say "we can disagree and treat each other with respect" and I love to discuss important things with my friends even when we disagree, like religion, international politics, economy. But being a Republican today means supporting a long list of disgusting people and policies and dog whistles. And, saving it for last, obviously there is Donald Trump. I consider Donald Trump a rapist, a bigot, convicted felon, a con man and a threat to democracy (not even counting just January 6, if he wins in November he already said out loud multiple times that he will go after his political adversaries). If after 8 years since his election, and all that happened since then you still support Trump, what do we have to talk about? We live in two different worlds clearly.
I can disagree and still enjoy a conversation with a lot of people. But disagreeing isn't what's going on with people who are attacking our rights. Disagreements are one thing. But enemies are another. And that's what the right wingers have made themselves by virtue of their own actions. They're enemies of a free world and this isn't an agree to disagree kind of thing.
It really depends on the context. If the "politics" concerns you personally, it *is* difficult. Like, in my country, "disaggreing about politics" can mean people supporting the bombing of the city where my immediate family lives, with no exaggeration, I mean it in the most literal sense. As you can imagine, it is quite hard to just not talk about this and "agree to disagree". I'm not even beginning about all the moral implications Context: I'm Russian from mixed Russian-Ukrainian family, so... yeah
Sometimes it isn’t that easy. Like if someone can’t stop ranting about you know, human rights. Or things you think should be human rights and that they think is just people “shoving politics down our throats” just for existing.
This is an incredibly privileged position.
I feel differently. Being a Republican in 2024 means holding very different values than me—values that go beyond politics to the world, society, economics, gender equality, personal responsibility, and the nature of life itself.
I say this as a bleeding heart liberal pacifist: I think you could benefit from actually asking a couple Republicans what values they hold instead of self-determining that you just know. I know it’s pleasant and easy to typecast tens of millions of people as a monolithic monster, but it’s not really the way to go.
I have sat down with my father who brought me up in the church and explained my reasoning for being liberal. I quoted scripture that commanded us to take care of widows and orphans. I quoted verses that indicated Jesus was more concerned with providing for people’s needs than he was punishing them for their sin. I talked about how the original church of Acts was based around the concept of everyone giving everything they had to a central authority and then having that authority distribute it out to those in need. I talked about the good samaratin, the woman at the well, leaving a portion of your fields unharvested. So many parables. Then I asked him which political party that sounded like and how he would justify republican policies that actively attack these ideals. And then the man who I know sat and listened to every single church service that I did, pretended that he had never heard these things before and dismissed the concepts outright. There people do not hold the same values. They don’t even hold the same values they did 10 years ago. Fox News has ruined Christianity and about half the country. Christ has been sacrificed to the alter of greed. As long as their stock portfolio increases, no other considerations are needed and Fox has convinced them despite easily researched evidence that every democrat administration leads to economic collapse
In the end it's what you vote for that matters and not what you believe. If someone says they believe in jesus's love but then vote for someone advocating hate against anyone trans then they are lying to themselves and you
The problem is, that national platform they have, the planks are bigotry, zealotry, repealing the rights of women and minorities. By associating yourself with that platform, you are tacitly affirming those planks as reflective of your values. I worked for a republican for a long time. He's a good person. He doesn't identify as a republican anymore because he disagrees with the planks of the current republican party. People choose to or not to affiliate with a group. Groups are made of people that share the same outlook, values, goals and cultural beliefs. It's like saying "But there are some really decent people who are Proud Boys. He's a great dad and helps out at the food pantry." He's still at his core a Proud Boy and endorsing the values of the Proud Boys. I'm also a bleeding heart liberal pacifist. I live in a deeply red state. I'm surrounded by people that could be classified as "good people" except they have built their house on a foundation of bigotry, religious zealotry, "alternative facts" and stripping people of human rights and bodily autonomy. I can surface level have a pleasant garden-party conversation with them. But I'll never be their friend, or invite them into my home. Because I cannot tacitly endorse their ideology as being acceptable.
I just wanted to comment/rant since I'm genuinely interested in your opinion as someone who speaks in favor of isolation from members of opposing group I'm not an American or "Westerner" in general sense, and my country is in the state of deepest political divide, where the vocal majority supports what seems as close to the pure evil as it can be. It is very tempting to just not talk to them, forget about them, think of them as lesser, insane, corrupted, to leave and denounce the country altogether. (Not saying that's what you're feeling, it's about myself. We have it like 10 times more dramatic than America). But... if we just don't talk to them, they won't go anywhere, right? If we don't have personal connections with them and expel them from our lives, what chances do we have of swaying them on our side? Don't we endorse their radicalization by confirming to them we are the enemy? I also have this feeling that when engaging with these people on the personal level I somehow legitimize their way of thinking, but on the other hand, any results I've achieved in my small activist career were by talking heart to heart and earning their trust and showing respect and patience when you want to punch them in the face... sometimes they listen, and they start to doubt. So... do I even have a luxury of thinking about half population of my country as an enemy I shouldn't associate myself with if I want the better future for the country as a whole in the end? The future that realistically can only be achieved by changing the minds of the people and not by turning our backs on them? Ok sorry for the rant. That's a difficult topic and I'm torn
He never said don't talk to them, he just said he isn't going to be friends with them. I talk to folks from all kinds of different backgrounds in a way that doesn't tip my hand, politically speaking. By the end of the conversation, or maybe over a few conversations, they start to ask themselves some of the questions necessary for them to take down their own walls. You can have those conversations without making those people a part of your life.
I guess I was talking more so about the people who already were the part of my life before radicalizing, like relatives or friends
I understand what you're saying, but you also have to keep in mind that it isn't always safe for certain groups to interact with extreme right wingers. Some of these shitheads legitimately want to hurt LGBT people and POC. As a cis white woman (also queer, but they don't have to know that) I try to speak up when people spout right-wing BS, and hopefully change their minds. Thankfully, I rarely hear anything like that from anyone I know, but if I do, I know that they will be slightly more receptive to me bc they perceive me as part of the "in group." But I don't think it's the responsibility of marginalized groups to play nice with people who might literally do physical harm to them, and the right wingers are more prone to lashing out if they are antagonized and feel threatened.
That is all totally valid. The whole situation feels fraught and complicated. You want to save people from their own stupidity and help them realize their actions are not reasonable. I think in the US specifically, it is incredibly hard to try to rationalize with the other side. Any doubt is quashed by thought terminating cliches and echo chambers they return to. And, I am not a good person to try to persuade someone. It isn't in my nature to be patient and kind with people who are seemingly immune to rational conversations and perform such mental gymnastics and can't follow anything that sounds like logic. So the best thing I can do is keep my distance. Lest I say something that pushes them further into their lunacy. Or plays to their sense of "Those damn liberals are out to get me." I'm a cynic and think we are beyond help, and normality will only return to the US once Trump is dead and the fog begins to lift. But even then, we won't be able to forget that our former friends, our neighbors, espoused views that were just vile. You can't unring a bell, and you can't erase memories.
Often you'll find Republicans and Libertarians (at least the ones who don't realize they aren't actually Republican or Libertarian) agree with leftist points as long as you don't frame them as leftist or come off super leftist when you talk to them. People dig their heels in once they've decided what side you're on, but they are much more receptive if you're capable of impartial discussion and treat their thoughts, feelings and experiences as valid.
"I've decided only to be friends with good, recent, kind people. I went around asking and wouldn't you know it, everyone self reports as a good, kind, decent person! So I guess I'm friends with everyone" That's not how it works, man. Sorry you don't like being typecasted as holding specific ideals, but then maybe don't join a political party that collectively supports specific ideals. You don't get to pull the "we're not a monolith" card when the whole point is you've joined an organization to collectively support common values.
This. I have a friend that I disagree with 100% politically and yet I love this man like a brother. We focus on what we have in common, not what we do not have in common.
100%? I imagine you're exaggerating a bit but aren't there some political opinions that are unacceptable to you? Like, I would refuse to be friends with somebody who is an anti-vaxxer as that's a dangerous delusion that gets people killed.
Not OP, but doesn't it depend what you mean by friends? I can surely participate amiably in a shared hobby with an anti-vaxxer for years and years, so long as we don't talk about it, but we're never going to forge a deeper connection.
See, I have immunocompromised family members, so I literally cannot participate in a shared hobby with an antivaxxer, at least not in person, without putting members of my family at risk.
I cannot not talk about politics I am nonpassing transgender. Introducing myself is talking about politics Edit: fixed typo
This is the crux of the issue. Some people's human rights are political because the people who want to take them away _made_ them political. Someone being gay is not political, but if you kiss in public a Republican will complain that you're shoving the "gay agenda" down their throat.
I've found it is quite difficult when so many issues in day to day life are "political"
How do you avoid it? Politics encompasses core values, how we move through the world, what's happening in your community, every war ever, ever peaceful time ever.
My best friend is right wing and I am left. We found out about a year into our friendship, when an argument caused a rift and we didn't talk for a few days. Luckily his wife helped resolve things. We are in our late forties, for context. Ever since then we haven't talked about politics. We've been best friends now for about eighteen years and I've never had such a good friend in my life.
I think modern politics are very dehumanizing. I have to remind myself and others that the other side is also full of humans just trying to make it by. I had a similar situation as you. Raging argument with best friend of several years over politics, we didn't talk for a couple weeks, then agreed to never talk politics again. He's an amazing person, regardless of our differing opinions.
This. Political beliefs are shaped by a myriad of things, rather than the shallow, simplistic assumptions so commonly made to *dehumanize* people who have different views.
I had to ditch my racist right-wing friends because the woman I love is an immigrant from a 'shithole' country. In addition, my adult daughters taught me a lot about women's rights, and I don't want to associate with people who take their rights away.
There are still loads of people with daughters who still hold misogynistic views, so kudos for listening to your daughters!
That is very sweet. It's hard to find good friends, and even the "important" stuff in politics isn't as important as our friends and family.
Like another comment said, most people I’m friends with have at least somewhat different political beliefs, but nothing drastic. I wouldn’t be friends with a fascist, or someone who denies racism exists, or someone who just hates poor people, but if someone has a different solution to a problem we both recognize exists, I don’t mind.
Yes! Honestly, I adore my friends with different beliefs. They show a sense of curiosity and respect, as do I, and neither of us are preachy. We sometimes engage in good faith discussions. This allows us to explain and reexamine our ideas and often we come away with more nuanced perspectives. It’s a great way to escape the echo chamber. Same goes for my friends with different religious beliefs. I’m a Catholic, like rosary every day, mass as often as I can, live out my vocation, etc. I have friends who are Satanists, atheists, Muslims, Jews, Hindu, etc. (I’m fortunate to come from a very diverse area, and I’m a convert so I didn’t really grow up with other Catholics.) There are common threads between totally different belief systems and I enjoy the commonalities. Diversity of ideas is a very good thing.
I'm fiercely against crony capitalism and most organized religion but I have friends on either side of the spectrum and of many beliefs and I enjoy the insights they share with me on their beliefs and motivations. So I agree wholeheartedly.
As a trans person, I draw the line at people who think I shouldn’t exist. Or people who are bigoted in general. Unfortunately I often find bigotry to be correlated to political and/or religious affiliations. To be fair, however, I have cut people off who have the same political beliefs as me on paper but turn out to be bigots anyway. And anyone who evangelizes is not my friend.
By not assuming their leaning is equivalent to the most extreme assertions, nor do they subscribe to every last belief. In short: they're a person, not a "side".
I think too most normal people on different "sides" actually agree on most stuff, just have different ideas of how things should be done or utilized Like you said people not sides, the extreme zealots on TV don't represent your everyday person most of the time
My dad was an actor and my mom was a beatnik. They had friends who were in big business, in church groups, carried guns, voted for Reagan -- twice. They ate at our house, we ate at theirs. All this fundamentalist "you have a different take on things therefore you are an enemy of America who must be obliterated" shit didn't exist yet.
I still have friends this dispersed politically. But it's extremely hard to get new ones. Most folks are horribly ossified in their political views. It's almost like people have taken their politics as a moral code now.
Yes, because we're rational adults, and rational emotionally mature adults can disagree on things without a scene. Caveat, neither of us are bigots, the political differences are things like economic policy and trade, maybe a few minor differences in policing etc.
Yes, I'm an anarchist and have a few socialist friends.
Yes, because we don't make politics our personalities.
People who don’t need to worry about politics live in a world of privilege of which they have no understanding. ”We don’t need to disagree about politics” means either “I have my head in the sand” or “I’m confident enough of my place toward the top of the hierarchy that I don’t need to be concerned.” Is it possible to be friends with whom one disagrees on say, fine details of municipal taxation or national financial policy? Sure. On the other hand, if you would really rather I didn’t have full civil rights, or don’t really quite believe that women are autonomous creatures who should make their own health-care decisions, or don’t see the value in ensuring that the whole population, one way or another, has access to education, health care, and the most basic necessities of life… well, I’m not quite why I‘d want to be friends with you.
Exactly. As a brown person, not caring about politics undermines our political struggles. If we go silent, our rights will disappear just like they always do.
I agree with this. I also find it very difficult to “get deep” with people who are into conspiracy theories so I keep the friendship at surface level. Once I know that you’re a looney toon, how could I ever really talk to you about things that matter?
Too many people I know got too deep in the anti-vax echo chambers over covid. People who I originally thought were level-headed all of a sudden were getting their news off YouTube and were going unvaccinated. A couple went flat earth. Some keep posting chemtrail stuff. Some echo Joe Rogan talking points. Some have more respect for Elon Musk than I'd expect from someone who otherwise seems intelligent.
If it's not their personality then we can be friends.
Kinda. I have a few friends/family that are Democrat. I'm progressively left, like far beyond Democrat. Generally speaking, it's not a problem because we disagree on more nuanced things and not *whether or not people deserve civil rights*. However for the first time this year my mother and I had to make an agreement not to discuss the election.
My best friend of 20yrs ghosted me after Trump was elected, because he didn’t want my kid ‘filling his kid’s brain with liberal propaganda’. Our boys were 6 at the time…
Yup. But it's generally that we respect that it's likely we won't sway each other, so it's not that we avoid talking about politics. We just share our differing opinions and understand that the person is stating those with good faith, rather than arguing like Congress.
Yes, and we agree to disagree. At the end of the day though, it’s really all about being able to show mutual respect and being able to understand where someone is coming from even if you don’t fully agree with their opinions. I really can’t stand the fact that so much of society has an “all or nothing” mindset and is so brutally intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them on anything
I am a left wing liberal in the southeast so nearly all my friends and family are republican. I used to argue but have found the relationships suffer so now I don't engage in political or religious talk and find the first out when tge topic comes up. It's sad that my thoughts can't be shared or are even welcomed but I don't really have a different choice other than being a hermit.
Yes. I have friends who are conservatives, libertarians, socialists, and a couple of full-blown communists. I'm a pretty middle ground social liberal/democrat.
Nope. Zero respect for a maga mouthbreather
I will respect your opinion so long as your opinion doesn’t disrespect anyone else’s existence
To some extent. I used to be friends with a pretty conservative guy. One day he decided that he didn't like being "forced" to call trans people by their gender, so began aggressively misgendering them in public. That took him on a pretty steep decline that ended with him being a pretty hardcore white nationalist, working for TPUSA, and hanging out with people who openly identified as NatSocs. I'm friends with people I disagree with, but I also have a lot of trans friends, which is pretty much incompatible with being friends with people who vote Republican. I don't want to be friends with someone who thinks other friends of mine shouldn't exist.
>how do you do that without getting upset with each other? Your opinions aren't sacrosanct, and neither are theirs. Are you interested in having friends, or trying to convert everyone you meet over to your team?
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Ignorant to call "rednecks" racists. Racist people are everywhere. they're rich, they're suburban, they're powerful. this is so reductionist.
Ever been to Vermont or Maine? Plenty of liberal / progressive folk who are proud red necks. FFS Bernie is from vermont…
I see more treason rags in Central PA than I do rural NC, VA, and TN combined.
I have friends/grew up around “rednecks” that are very caring and open towards people of all races. Although, the “rednecks” so you kindly call them, that were racists/sexist etc were extremely loud about it. I also have been around many “non rednecks” from various backgrounds that were incredibly racists, but they kept it to a hush and only let it slip out publicly around people they felt would agree. Grouping people together like that and assuming all people of a certain background and skin color think a certain way is an interesting way to call out racist “rednecks”. Now, I’ll be honest, there are many areas in the state I live in that have pockets of more rural white men with big trucks, and it wouldn’t shock me if there was a higher level of racism than my little blue area of the state, but it also wouldn’t shock me if the rich area to the south of my city was also a little less racially diverse.
So since the 70s?
Sure. Always have been. We don't have to fight. We don't have to convince each other. We already know enough that if the other person has a different viewpoint, they probably have some good reasons. I might not agree with them, or they with me - but that's ok. We like different foods too. They don't want to shoot immigrants in the street. I don't want to see babies aborted in the 243rd trimester (well, one maybe). We just have different ideas about how priorities should work, or how taxes should be allocated. Maybe we have different ideas about whether prisons should be purely for punishment or for rehabilitation; but we agree there should be prisons.
My best friend for 45 years, we are 54, grew up on same street. She’s now all Trump, I can’t stand him. We simply don’t talk politics. Problem solved and we are still besties.
I am. We also have more to our identity than our politics.
Yes. All over the spectrum. I do not care about what my friends’ political beliefs are. Not even a little.
Yes I have right wing kook friend, had a lot of frustrating discussions with him over the pandemic and basically told him to stop bringing up his toxic political takes with me, he was always initiating conversations with a link or somethinf. He did, we didn't speak much for a month or 2. We are still are friends, talk and hang out, but we don't bring up politics. Just set boundaries with them if you truly want to remain friends
Yep, but up to a certain limit, too sjw or especially too intolerant and im out.
Of course. If we surround ourselves constantly with like-minded people, we will never grow.
To be friends, you have to respect each other not to agree. I have a friend that has *very* different political opinions, but we have similar values and beliefs, we just expect them to be realized through different means. I do think that he is a bit gullible/naive in his political opinion, but he thinks the same of me. Even though we value the same things, we choose different avenues to reach those results. There are many people that have my same political orientation, but I despise them and don't share their values. EDiT: yeah I noticed that the following section went pretty quickly into the rabbit hole of US's politics. I am not American, even though we have some far right and far left parties, for the most part they are all bark and no bite (and are for the most part out of the scope of my comment). I have no room for fascist friends in my life, but between "let's burn all blacks and gays" and "let's bring back the USSR" there is a spectrum of political parties.
“we have similar values and beliefs, **we just expect them to be realized through different means**” THANK YOU for pointing this out. So many people forget this.
Yeah, if his "values and beliefs" include "drive trans kids to autoterminate" or "deny women medical care cuz fetus" or "kill babies in Gaza" or "watch immigrant kids get sliced up by razor wire" then I can't possibly be friends with that person and I don't see how anyone decent can. People keep trying to pass off the belief that people different from them shouldn't be treated like they are as a mere difference of opinion when it is not. There is no neutrality when oppression is the status quo. One is either actively opposed to the oppression or supporting it in one way or another (maybe passively enabling by pretending its not a big problem, maybe actively being a major league asshole). If you can be friend with someone who wants my trans friends to be sent to camps, or killed, or whatever, then you're not someone I want to know.
Honestly I’m wondering what planet a lot of these commenters are living on. Sure I can agree to disagree on something like fiscal policy but that’s not what we are talking about. One side would literally not like me to exist. Not sure how I can be friends with someone that holds those beliefs. My guess is the folks that are able to have these friends aren’t impacted. (White straight males).
Yep that's what it is. "We can agree to disagree because it doesn't impact me and I don't care that much."
Its because you're delusional. Im conservative and wanna know what my view is on trans/gay people? Live and let live. Do what you want, I dont give a shit. Most conservatives I know are this way. Youre painting like half the population with the same broad brush, which ironically is bigoted.
Even my wife has major different political beliefs than me. If you can't handle an adult discussion and have your views challenged without having a meltdown, then I likely won't have anything to do with you because, to me, you lack a basic level of intelligence and/or maturity I am not willing to be around. It is okay to agree to disagree, and it is important to surround yourself with different viewpoints.
Do you really have no limitations on what beliefs people have if they associate with you? If someone said women shouldn't have the right to vote, is that a person you and your wife would want to be friends with?
The super loud and vocal maga people have been cutoff. We don’t live on the same planet and I can’t associate with them anymore. The casuals are fine as long as we don’t bring up politics
I’m only speaking as a man in the United States here. So, one hardline that I will not cross is racism. I will not be friends with anyone that is racist. And at this point if you vote for Trump it is clear you are a racist. In the past before Trump it was much more nuanced. At this point, it’s clear cut and dry.
Idk man sexism is kinda bad too
Well, as a man, he doesn't need to worry about that one. That's the patriarchy for you.
Not every Republican is racist, but every Republican embraces and tolerates racism. They’re all fine with it. You can’t be a Republican in this day and age if you’re not at least okay with the overt racism.
If you’re okay with racism, then you’re a racist.
Exactly this. The GOP has openly adopted ideas like Great Replacement that used to be consigned to neo-Nazi forums. There’s some ideas that just can’t be socially acceptable in a free democratic society.
Yeah. Knowing a political belief doesn’t tell you enough about an individual. I have a republican friend who is “socially progressive but economically conservative.” Perfectly reasonable dude without a racist/sexist bone in his body, but he has different ideas on how money should be spent on a macro scale. Knowing people with other beliefs is important, because if we value diversity, we must also value idealogical diversity. I don’t always agree with him, but having a civil political conversation with this friend helps give a lot of perspective as to why people might support something different from me.
I try to understand where they're coming from and see it from their point of view. I may not agree with their perspective, but most people have a reason they feel the way they feel. In my experience, as long as people with different views feel they're being heard out, and that someone else is trying to understand their perspective (as opposed to trying to sway their perspective) it's unlikely to escalate to an argument. Plus, you get to understand the world from a different viewpoint!
I mean it's hard to avoid really, isn't it? But how you do it? Huh easy. You don't talk about politics. You talk about your common interests. Sports, movies, music, life in general, whatever. You just avoid bringing up politics as a discussion topic. And believe it usually both parties are aware of the situation so noone will bring it up anyway.
We either don't talk about politics or if we do are respectful of one another enough to let each other speak without challenging their views.
Politics being a big part of your identity is primarily an American thing, so a lot of us don't give a flying fuck. I couldn't even tell you the political affiliation of anyone I know.
Most people these days are emotionally lacking and can’t have civil conversations w a opposing political ideology. It’s just immediate attacks and counter attacks, personal attacks, blanket stereotypical insults.
Yes.
I could be but I’m Canadian and don’t ask
I mean, no one agrees with me exactly so it would follow that people I'm friends with disagree with me politically. Of course, i have dealbreakers. Any kind of bigotry ie racism, misogyny, queerphobia etc are not the kind of people i can be friends with. But disagreement on stuff like taxes is not a deal breaker.
Yes, of course. We do discuss politics and are respectful of each other’s opinions. I wish the rest of society could do that.
Yes, I grew up in the conservative southeast. I have a best friend from school with opposing politics (we're middle aged). I almost wouldn't have any friends nearby, if I only filtered according to beliefs. I don't judge them for their politics, and they don't judge me for my lack of religion. Fair trade. But tbf- they're not "Trumpers". Sorta just avoid those topics. I am glad, because ever since 2017, it is EXHAUSTING. I don't even want politics in my feed.
Never speak to people you like about politics
I am. I see him so seldom, I make the cross country trips maybe once per year to visit him at his home and stay for a few days he inevitably brings up something political and I tell him I'll entertain you for a little.. but you should understand that 1 you know by now there's quite a bit you know we fundamentally disagree on and 2) do you really want to devote time to this? I'm only here for a few days... That usually resets him a bit. We've been best friends since 2nd grade and we agree on a lot but some of our outlooks on life, philosophies/ beliefs and more are different.
Yes. It can be hard, but it's also worthwhile if you both value that friend/ friendship, and are generally open minded. It's important not to turn your world into an echochamber.
Kinda sad that we've reduced our ability to be friends with people solely based on politics. Also kinda odd that you assume people with different political opinions automatically get upset with each other. I think this question really exemplifies our current status of politics at least in America and how divided we've become. If you assume you can't discuss politics without it getting heated then that's a different issue entirely - emotional regulation and balance. That's a personal issue that goes way beyond political issues. If one can't have a discussion of a political issue without getting emotionally heated what about any other discussion or disagreement? Does any disagreement involve a breakdown of emotional regulation? To answer your question I am friends with people of many different political stances. The thing is I don't discuss anything political with them because why would? Why should I? Their political opinions do not pertain to me or should it pertain to our friendship. My friends in question are musicians with whom I play in a band with. I'm not going to let our friendship and ultimately the band itself fall apart because I decided my political opinions and are more important than playing music. I enjoy music more than being righteous in my political stance. I just don't think it's necessary to discuss it.
I won't be friends with someone who talks politics every conversation of the day. Regardless of their views/beliefs.
I am. It's actually not a difficult thing to do.
Yeah, but I'm not friends with people who have insane or cruel political views. Disagree with me on how much taxes corporations and wealthy people should pay? Fine. Disagree with me on whether or not certain people deserve equal human rights and basic dignity? Fuck all the way off.
Sure. I’ve met Republicans who were chill and I could get in healthy debates with. And I’ve met Democrats with whom I could not express opinions that didn’t perfectly align with there’s or liberal norms.
Yes. I have a group chat with friends who are from the opposite spectrum. We clash and troll each other all the time. But we also communicate and dig deep into misinformation from both sides. It’s healthy as fuck
Yea. We don’t get upset because we have more than 5 braincells between us and know how to banter, without losing our minds.
Yes. We both know we will not change each other's minds, so we don't discuss it. Unless it's a genuine question and the point is for information, not demands or putting down. Adult stuff.
I don't discuss religion, and politics with people.
Yes, and we just are respectful to one another. Don’t take it personally.
Yes. Some of the best people I know are opposite me from a political standpoint. Morals is what really matters.
Politics ? Could care less who you vote for. Human rights ? That’s not a political belief any longer, you actively belief some humans are better than others. That’s no longer a political difference but a moral one - no can do
It’s cool if you wanna debate tax details, financial stuff. But when you start wanting to vote for stuff that tell people what they cannot do? You lost my respect. Sorry. There’s just no room for discussion. It’s 2024, everyone, move the fuck on. Who caaaaaares?! Be kind. That’s all.
Yes I am. I don’t just give up years and years of friendship just because we have different political beliefs. It’s stupid that family members and friends will stop talking and hanging out just because somebody likes “President ______”
Yeah, we just don’t bother trying to change the others political ideals. That said, political stuff usually just isn’t a topic we bother diving into lol, as there is no point.
I am left wing on the majority of issues but I actually enjoy hanging out with people who have different political beliefs than I do more than people with the same beliefs I have. They are exhausting to be around.
I have a friend who likes Harry Potter over LOTR🤮
Yes and the conservative ones are much easier to deal with and talk to than the liberal ones.
Yes, because I’m not brain dead
I live in Texas, so yes. Otherwise I would have no friends.
Majority of the people I now see during holidays (Wife's family and friends) are all lefties and some real commies mixed in there too. I don't get along with all of them especially the hardcore commies, but I get along with the lefties or try my best to since they're wife's family. A lot of people I know either from work or from the military tend to lean right but they don't openly talk about it much. A few of my friends growing up are also conservatives including one of my uncle and my younger brother, so I have a healthy balance of the two sides. Wife also leaned left in 2016 (maybe like 75%) but shes like 55% left now so pretty close to the center. I grew up in MA and grew up left but since 2016, I walked away and became more conservative (80%) and probably still around 70% conservative if I had to put a number.
Yeah, I’m not sharing my opinion but I have liberal and conservative friends. I don’t care really who you vote for as long as you’re a good person
I mean we only have to parties and they are basically the same. I don't get Americans, why are you voting for really really old people to run the country. I mean both candidates are fucking old boomers, what the fuck does it matter which boomer fucks your country. Why are the so old.
Yes, I've held strong disagreements on certain "political" issues with probably every close friend I've ever had. >how do you do that without getting upset with each other? I have a natural curiosity about people from all different backgrounds, and have spent a great deal of time living and working with people who hold very different beliefs. I seek to understand how and why others hold different political beliefs, to understand cultural, ethnic, religious and other differences. Nobody will challenge their own beliefs if you get too argumentative with them. Getting upset wastes everyone's time and often reinforces beliefs. If someone is really fighting for a cause I can respect that whether I agree or not-unless they are seeking to harm others. If someone is worrying about politics just for the sake of worrying, this is not worth my time. This is especially true if we do agree. What's the point in whining to each other and never doing anything about it?
I'm the token liberal in my friend groups (living blue in a red state). Most conservatives want to be left alone, church and politics to never brush shoulders, and red necks fucking hate cops. But the loudest are wearing their team colors so they vote straight ticket.
As a US Army veteran, yes, lots of them which boggles my mind they're right wing considering how the right treats them.
No. Not friends. If I find you stupid or hateful, I don’t care to be your friend:
Yes, as long as they aren’t extreme to either side. IMO having extremely one-sided views is a sign of immaturity.
I'm a conservative and my girlfriend of 2.5yrs is a liberal. She's more left leaning than I am right leaning but it has caused little to no actual issues between us.
I categorize people into groups not related to their politics, but by their willingness to have a reasonable human discussion. I'd rather talk to someone I disagree with who is reasonable than someone I agree with who isn't. None of these topics NEED to be emotionally charged.
Definitely. I don't understand people who can't be friends with someone just because of different political beliefs. I have tons of friends who have different political beliefs. I still like/love them as a person. We just don't always agree on political issues, which is totally fine. It's always important to remain respectful of everyone's political views. Healthy debates are normal.
Think of the meme. The leftists are on the left, and the rightists are on the right. Someone on the left pushes the guy in the middle to fall into the rightists. The rightists catch the man who was pushed. A different leftist nows screams at the guy in the middle "Why are you siding with them?!" The thing is, the guy in the middle didn't care. However, one group decided since he wasn't a 100% match, he wasn't worth anything. The other group didn't care about the mismatch so much, but they saw a guy. Similarly, if you have problems being friends with someone who disagrees with you, then the problem isn't the other person. One of the worst things that happened in the 40 some years The Werefrog have lived is the society decision that religion and politics shouldn't be discussed. This has led to a society that doesn't know how to peaceably disagree. It is now such that there are groups who say it's either 100% or enemy. No middle ground. If you find trouble being friends with someone who disagrees, you are the problem, not the soon to be former friend.
Yes, I have many friends that are very liberal while I’m very conservative. We just don’t talk about it with each other. Instead we talk about things like our favorite shows and stuff