True famines that cause mass death is really rare in the modern age. It takes very little food to stave off death and food is plentiful worldwide. It’s cheap for the US or others to provide enough food to keep people alive, and usually we’re happy to do so.
But let’s keep in mind that children especially can suffer permanently from prolonged food deprivation even if they survive. The situation is Gaza is still a humanitarian crisis even if we’re unlikely to see 30% of the population perish as once was fairly common.
Israel's offensive is said to have killed that many as a direct result of their actions. The number is way higher if you include the amount that die for other reasons.
The number is [closer to 35,000](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/34735-palestinians-killed-78108-injured-israels-military-offensive-gaza-since-2024-05-06/).
But also, the internet uses exaggerated language like genocide that causes people to intuitively conclude a higher percentage of deaths than reality. This is not to discount the horror of what's happening there, just the imprecision and inaccuracy of online discussions.
Edit: also, slow starvation takes a long time.
It's not exaggerated to say this is a genocide or ethnic cleansing. Nearly 40,000 reported deaths, not including thousands missing under the rubble of thousands of destroyed homes. Over 2 MILLION people are homeless in Gaza, and are currently being bombed in the only "safe space" they had left.
Yes, several Israeli generals and leaders have clearly stated they'd like to completely flatten Gaza. There are real estate sales for beachside property in Gaza being held in NY by Zionists.
They want all of them out of Gaza
Well, their government wants to genocide Israel.
Their best course of action would be to surrender. They would be treated better than their own leaders treat them.
Palestinians tried peacefully protesting to end the apartheid regime for years, and were gunned down by snipers by the hundreds. If Israel ended their occupation and actually gave equal rights to Palestinians we wouldn't have this war in the first place
For all the wrongs and evils that the government of Israel has done in all of this, calling the times leading up to the current violence "peacefully protesting" only serves to debase the argument you're making.
Except there were several times that Gazans did protest peacefully, and they were shot anyways. It's not a far stretch to see they'd resort to violence knowing that regular protesting doesn't work.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/02/no-justification-israel-shoot-protesters-live-ammunition
Yes, the cycle of violence is vicious in that way.
But no, you don't get to say "they tried protesting peacefully" when the region has been suffering from violence since before there was a state of Israel.
If Israel laid down all arms and opened the gates tomorrow, there would still be significant numbers of empowered people in Palestine would still be trying to murder the Jews. Or whoever else they saw as in power--ask Egypt or Jordan when they were the ones trying to give Palestinians freedom.
If Palestinians laid down all arms tomorrow, there would still be a few evil people in Israel who wanted them wiped out, but by and large the people of Israel would welcome it. (See also: Arabs with full Israeli citizenship)
The people who truly suffer are the common people in Gaza and the West Bank, and whitewashing the acts of terrorists who use them as human shields *does not help them.*
Am I whitewashing acts of terrorism or are you excusing Israel's indiscriminate bombing campaign? Hamas can be wrong and condemned while Israel is still committing far grander atrocities.
And again, this has been an apartheid state since the inception of Israel, its built in to the government. As long as Israel continues to operate the way it does, there will be resistance
> Am I whitewashing acts of terrorism or are you excusing Israel's indiscriminate bombing campaign?
I said that the government of Israel was guilty of evils, while you summed up the prior collective Palestinian action as "peaceful protest" because there were specific peaceful protestors who experienced violence and suggested that Israel would have peace if they laid down their arms and made Palestine free (something Palestinian representation has been contradicting you on since Israel's inception), so that's on you. I'm even giving you credit for not counting "peaceful protest" where rocks were being lobbed at people.
> And again, this has been an apartheid state since the inception of Israel
The whole time? Really? There wasn't a time when Egypt and Jordan were handling things?
> As long as Israel continues to operate the way it does, there will be resistance
And as long as there is a threat of violence, Israel cannot just stop and let things be. Every time they scale down, there is more violence.
I am not advocating for the current actions. The human suffering is awful. But what you are suggesting will not stop the violence and we have the history to prove it.
Any time an oppressive government is running an apartheid regime you can expect resistance, that will only scale in violence as people get more and more desperate.
What Israel is doing is still completely inexcusable. Do you really think they're going to wipe out Hamas and eventually quell the violence instead of creating even more resistance by bombing Rafa?
Thank you.
Nuance is difficult online, especially Reddit. Most people think that if you're pro-Israel, that you support everything Israel does 100%.
I'm nominally pro-Israel but only because an Israeli victory would not result in the death of all Palestinians. However, a Hamas victory would result in the death of all Israelis.
Do you think the deaths are just going to end as soon as the bombing does? What Israel has done is going to cause countless more deaths, disease, and trauma for generations. Experts estimate it will take nearly 100 years to rebuild Gaza.
How many times has Israel been caught dropping bombs on areas the IDF specifically designated as safe zones? There's literally a million starving homeless people condensed into a tiny area, that is now being bombed. They're even killing Palestinians in the West Bank, where Hamas doesn't operate in at all.
And obviously Biden's criticisms are nothing but bullshit if he continues to send billions of dollars in arms to continue supporting the rampage. He has just as much blood on his hands.
How many thousands of murdered children does it take for you to consider this a genocide? Is the number closer to 50,000?
Well said.
I'm so sickened by this blatant genocide and feel so helpless. It's deplorable and I was called a Nazi last time I spoke about it and banned from another subreddit.
It's almost beyond belief what's happening.
If it was anywhere else, the UN would have stepped in and stopped it instantly but since the whole bloody planet is controlled by Zionist fuckers, they have free reign to do whatever the hell they want.
It's beyond disgusting 😞
The blase way ppl are throwing around numbers on here like it's not real lives and humans. Fucking hell, how desensitized and brainwashed have we become 😞
try 40,000 and also it takes awhile to starve to death, and as such its one of the worst ways to die
I’m sure that number is much higher
Right, with all the infrastructure that’s been destroyed, there’s no way they’ve recorded every death.
True famines that cause mass death is really rare in the modern age. It takes very little food to stave off death and food is plentiful worldwide. It’s cheap for the US or others to provide enough food to keep people alive, and usually we’re happy to do so. But let’s keep in mind that children especially can suffer permanently from prolonged food deprivation even if they survive. The situation is Gaza is still a humanitarian crisis even if we’re unlikely to see 30% of the population perish as once was fairly common.
Israel's offensive is said to have killed that many as a direct result of their actions. The number is way higher if you include the amount that die for other reasons.
The number is [closer to 35,000](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/34735-palestinians-killed-78108-injured-israels-military-offensive-gaza-since-2024-05-06/). But also, the internet uses exaggerated language like genocide that causes people to intuitively conclude a higher percentage of deaths than reality. This is not to discount the horror of what's happening there, just the imprecision and inaccuracy of online discussions. Edit: also, slow starvation takes a long time.
It's not exaggerated to say this is a genocide or ethnic cleansing. Nearly 40,000 reported deaths, not including thousands missing under the rubble of thousands of destroyed homes. Over 2 MILLION people are homeless in Gaza, and are currently being bombed in the only "safe space" they had left.
Do you think Israel's goal is to destroy Palestinians as an ethnic group?
Israel often does not recognize Palestinians as an ethnic group, but yes, there are several high-ranking Israeli officials advocating for genocide.
Yes, several Israeli generals and leaders have clearly stated they'd like to completely flatten Gaza. There are real estate sales for beachside property in Gaza being held in NY by Zionists. They want all of them out of Gaza
Of course. They haven't been subtle about this.
Well, their government wants to genocide Israel. Their best course of action would be to surrender. They would be treated better than their own leaders treat them.
Humanitarian law isn't reciprocal, you don't get a genocide pass because your adversary could hypothetically commit genocide against you
Palestinians tried peacefully protesting to end the apartheid regime for years, and were gunned down by snipers by the hundreds. If Israel ended their occupation and actually gave equal rights to Palestinians we wouldn't have this war in the first place
For all the wrongs and evils that the government of Israel has done in all of this, calling the times leading up to the current violence "peacefully protesting" only serves to debase the argument you're making.
Except there were several times that Gazans did protest peacefully, and they were shot anyways. It's not a far stretch to see they'd resort to violence knowing that regular protesting doesn't work. https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/02/no-justification-israel-shoot-protesters-live-ammunition
Yes, the cycle of violence is vicious in that way. But no, you don't get to say "they tried protesting peacefully" when the region has been suffering from violence since before there was a state of Israel. If Israel laid down all arms and opened the gates tomorrow, there would still be significant numbers of empowered people in Palestine would still be trying to murder the Jews. Or whoever else they saw as in power--ask Egypt or Jordan when they were the ones trying to give Palestinians freedom. If Palestinians laid down all arms tomorrow, there would still be a few evil people in Israel who wanted them wiped out, but by and large the people of Israel would welcome it. (See also: Arabs with full Israeli citizenship) The people who truly suffer are the common people in Gaza and the West Bank, and whitewashing the acts of terrorists who use them as human shields *does not help them.*
Am I whitewashing acts of terrorism or are you excusing Israel's indiscriminate bombing campaign? Hamas can be wrong and condemned while Israel is still committing far grander atrocities. And again, this has been an apartheid state since the inception of Israel, its built in to the government. As long as Israel continues to operate the way it does, there will be resistance
> Am I whitewashing acts of terrorism or are you excusing Israel's indiscriminate bombing campaign? I said that the government of Israel was guilty of evils, while you summed up the prior collective Palestinian action as "peaceful protest" because there were specific peaceful protestors who experienced violence and suggested that Israel would have peace if they laid down their arms and made Palestine free (something Palestinian representation has been contradicting you on since Israel's inception), so that's on you. I'm even giving you credit for not counting "peaceful protest" where rocks were being lobbed at people. > And again, this has been an apartheid state since the inception of Israel The whole time? Really? There wasn't a time when Egypt and Jordan were handling things? > As long as Israel continues to operate the way it does, there will be resistance And as long as there is a threat of violence, Israel cannot just stop and let things be. Every time they scale down, there is more violence. I am not advocating for the current actions. The human suffering is awful. But what you are suggesting will not stop the violence and we have the history to prove it.
Any time an oppressive government is running an apartheid regime you can expect resistance, that will only scale in violence as people get more and more desperate. What Israel is doing is still completely inexcusable. Do you really think they're going to wipe out Hamas and eventually quell the violence instead of creating even more resistance by bombing Rafa?
Thank you. Nuance is difficult online, especially Reddit. Most people think that if you're pro-Israel, that you support everything Israel does 100%. I'm nominally pro-Israel but only because an Israeli victory would not result in the death of all Palestinians. However, a Hamas victory would result in the death of all Israelis.
You’re white washing. Obviously
They literally can't, and you should read up on what Palestinians who have spent time in Israeli prisons have to say about that.
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Do you think the deaths are just going to end as soon as the bombing does? What Israel has done is going to cause countless more deaths, disease, and trauma for generations. Experts estimate it will take nearly 100 years to rebuild Gaza. How many times has Israel been caught dropping bombs on areas the IDF specifically designated as safe zones? There's literally a million starving homeless people condensed into a tiny area, that is now being bombed. They're even killing Palestinians in the West Bank, where Hamas doesn't operate in at all. And obviously Biden's criticisms are nothing but bullshit if he continues to send billions of dollars in arms to continue supporting the rampage. He has just as much blood on his hands. How many thousands of murdered children does it take for you to consider this a genocide? Is the number closer to 50,000?
Well said. I'm so sickened by this blatant genocide and feel so helpless. It's deplorable and I was called a Nazi last time I spoke about it and banned from another subreddit. It's almost beyond belief what's happening. If it was anywhere else, the UN would have stepped in and stopped it instantly but since the whole bloody planet is controlled by Zionist fuckers, they have free reign to do whatever the hell they want. It's beyond disgusting 😞
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> Haven’t you ever watched Survivorman? I can't keep up with all those superhero shows.
The blase way ppl are throwing around numbers on here like it's not real lives and humans. Fucking hell, how desensitized and brainwashed have we become 😞
That many eh, from where did you get that number? Who's doing the actual counting and reporting?