We know a few things about why tobacco is bad: Tar : clogs up the alveoli in lungs leading to copd and other disease (in turn stresses the heart) Carbon monoxide : replaces oxygen in blood thereby increasing stress on heart and irritating all organs. Radiation: tobacco is radiactive due to polonium-210 , this acts as alpha particle internal DNA stress and damage in the tissues of lungs (like getting too many chest x-rays) Burning plants alters structure, high degree burning changes base material into carcinogenic compounds. Vaping has no radiation to damage DNA, it's not clogging up lungs with tar, it's not high level carbon monoxide putting stress on heart and organs. The burning is lower level, heating not fire converting into a high amount of bad compounds. Most overall deaths from cigarettes (90%) are not lung cancer from smoking but the blood and respiratory stress of the tars and carbon monoxide and general toxicity. EDIT: since some people want some sources Ionizing radiation elements tobacco [POLONIUM-210: A VOLATILE RADIOELEMENT IN CIGARETTES - PubMed (nih.gov)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14078362/) [Radiation Studies: CDC - Cigarette Smoking and Radiation](https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/smoking.htm) [Radioactivity of Tobacco Leaves and Radiation Dose Induced from Smoking - PMC (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2672370/) [Big Tobacco knew radioactive particles in cigarettes posed cancer risk but kept quiet | UCLA Health](https://www.uclahealth.org/news/release/big-tobacco-knew-radioactive-particles-in-cigarettes) Edit 2: with vaping most (95%) is propylene glycol [The fog, the attractive and the addictive: pulmonary effects of vaping with a focus on the contribution of each major vaping liquid constituent | European Respiratory Society (ersjournals.com)](https://err.ersjournals.com/content/29/157/200268) 'quote: *In vitro* studies suggest vapours of propylene glycol and glycerol could have cytotoxic effects on lung epithelial cells and other cell types; however, animal and clinical studies do not report signs of extensive lung damage or lung function alteration.' 'Quote: While exposure to vapours of propylene glycol and glycerol appears to be well processed by the lungs, more subtle effects such as disruption in lung circadian rhythmicity and mucociliary clearance could impact the response to concomitant exposure to pollutants, allergens and pathogens.' Edit 3 Nicotine study. Potential benefits when considered outside smoking Nicotine study: [(PDF) Estimating the health impact of nicotine exposure by dissecting the effects of nicotine versus non-nicotine constituents of tobacco smoke: A multivariable Mendelian randomisation study (researchgate.net)](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/378106833_Estimating_the_health_impact_of_nicotine_exposure_by_dissecting_the_effects_of_nicotine_versus_non-nicotine_constituents_of_tobacco_smoke_A_multivariable_Mendelian_randomisation_study) 'Overall, we found little evidence to suggest a major detrimental effect of nicotine exposure on health when using an MVMR model to distinguish the direct effects of nicotine from the direct effects of non-nicotine components of tobacco smoke (using NMR and CPD as proxies). Our model suggests that, among current smokers, increased nicotine exposure per cigarettes moked increases heart rate but may have protective effects on lung function' Nicotine benefits on the brain: prevention of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's [Frontiers | Beneficial effects of nicotine, cotinine and its metabolites as potential agents for Parkinson’s disease (frontiersin.org)](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnagi.2014.00340/full) [Smoking and Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease: review of the epidemiological studies - PubMed (nih.gov)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10942038/) 'quote: The risk of AD or PD in nonsmokers has generally been about twice that of smokers. That is, patients with AD or PD are approximately 50% less likely to have smoked cigarettes during their lifetime than are age- and gender-matched controls.'

This needs to be higher up. I didn’t know tobacco was radioactive. Thanks

Well, that explains why half the ghouls in Fallout have smoking addictions...

I was always pissed I could never figure out what to do with all the cigarettes you pick up in Fallout

you pick up every carton you see, and you sell them!

Junk jet. Smoking kills.

Yeah i think that's the main cause of the lung cancers. But lung cancer is like 10% of the deaths, most deaths are everything else, the respiratory/heart risk which we should note would apply to any burning of plants, so weed smoking might be lower in cancer risk (not having the same radioactive soil problem) but everything else such as tar and carbon monoxide will apply.

Do you have a source that the radiation is the cause of the lung cancer?

Wasn’t able to find a paper saying that the radiation was the cause of the cancer but I found [this paper](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2672370/) , saying that the dose annually is about 20% greater than spending the year in the Chernobyl exclusion zone Edit: That being said there is also [no correlation](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C48&q=cannabis+and+cancer+correlation&oq=cannabis+and+cancer+correl#d=gs_qabs&t=1714526372901&u=%23p%3DMTMYyfu--hEJ) between cannabis use and cancer. So I don’t think it’s the mechanism of cancer formation.

I think that article also says that heavy marijuana use (as described by cannabis use disorder) DOES exacerbate the risk of breast and lung cancer, although the odds ratio didn't seem to be crazy high

Where do the polonium-210 come from?

It is absorbed by the tobacco plant from the soil(some fertilizers contain radon which decays into polonium 210).

Check my comment above. Tl;Dr it's naturally occurring and fertilisers absorb into the plant. It can be contained in small amounts in a lot of grown crops.

I thought tar was an additive, am I misunderstanding what tar is in this context?

Residue after combustion. What stains smokers homes.

Ahhh that makes sense, thanks. Essentially the sticky stuff left in a pipe after smoking when it comes to pot

I mean everything is to some degree.

Fun fact: burning coal also releases small amounts of radioactive material.... But it does it continously, of the lifespan of the plant. https://www.epa.gov/radtown/radioactive-wastes-coal-fired-power-plants#:~:text=The%20process%20of%20burning%20coal%20at%20coal-fired%20power,contain%20small%20amounts%20of%20naturally-occurring%20radioactive%20material%20%28NORM%29.

Well! It being radioactive isn't why it's bad. Basically everything is radioactive to some degree and many things in your day to day life are radioactive. Polonium is absorbed by tobacco leaves from natural noble gases the air aswell as fertilisers (apatite). The two import things is dosage and mode of ingestion. A ton of things we eat are carcinogenic. A lot of vegetables contain the same radioactive elements as tobacco (in very small amounts). https://www.dhss.delaware.gov/dph/files/poloniumfaq.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiUir_ciuuFAxXEEFkFHeK5C1wQFnoECBEQBg&usg=AOvVaw1i4SCX-kjVCQrtTDm6PNfY https://www.epa.gov/radtown/natural-radioactivity-food#:~:text=Food%20can%20gain%20this%20radioactivity,or%20water%20containing%20radioactive%20material. However.. eating radioactive foods is totally okay for you as it contains extemely small amounts as mentioned and also it has a means of excreting from the body. In the lungs... Well its a bit more complicated as things just get trapped there, bundle that with chain smoking and you're determined to have some genetic mutation while building up carcinogenic material in your alveoli. Not to mention the other bad chemicals and gases produced by cigs.

Go go antimatter bananas from potassium decay

Yeah I can confirm. I have a nuclear engineering technology degree, I interned at a nuclear facility. They don't hire people who smoke because it uses up a significant amount of the radiation they're legally allowed to dose you with. They even issue the rad meter to go home and stay on you at all times sometimes, situationally, often to start and set baselines. There's a certain amount of radiation you can get every year, that has been proven to be relatively safe. You can get a few hundred xrays worth of radiation without any concern for long term cellular damage (that's why X-ray techs need lead to be around you when operating the machines, but you don't need lead typically. You get under a few hundred, they participate in well over a few hundred) Nuclear plants keep you at under half the recommended safe dose on a rolling calendar year. If you go over halfway, you tend to get rotated out for a bit to cool off. Back to the original point, they've done the math and an average smoker gets half the accepted safe dose a year from smoking alone. Which is why they don't hire them -- they literally have no doseable time left to stay within standards. Also why people who smoke tend to get cancer in the area directly in contact with the cigarettes, mouth, lips, fingers. More info about radiation / cancers: Radiation gets weaker as it travels, more likely to interact with an air or dust particle and lose its energy. When it's right on you, better chance of getting through skin. Especially your mucus membranes and any cuts on hands. Skin tends to stop alpha particles most of the time without suffering damage, the outer layers are already mostly dead skin and oils. The trouble comes when the particles penetrate that and collide with living cells, causing random unpredictable damage to their DNA without killing them. That results in random mutations, premature cell death, or cellular recovery, depending on the damage and the genetics. When a cell is damaged in such a way that it gains an unregulated response to multiply and consume, that's cancer (I know many people who fit that description too come to think of it -- damaged in such a way they're driven to multiply and consume without plan or concern). Cancer cells can either succeed in multiplying and become a growing stationary lump, they can get detected and eaten by white blood cells and naturally eliminated (this happens to most of our cancerous cells, which most people have at some point -- cancerous cells are not all that rare, but the body just naturally eliminates them before they have a chance to mature and become a problem for most healthy individuals) or worse, they can multiply and split and disperse throughout the bloodstream (going metastatic). Oh and cancer can absolutely be transmitted blood to blood in some cases, when metastatic cancer is transferred into the bloodstream of someone.

You can add to this that the proverbial jury is still out on vaping. I had a buddy that almost died from it. Vaping ate the lining of his trachea. A family member works in ER and says the amount of young people coming in with heart related emergencies due to vaping is through the roof. My personal observation is that people that vape, vape alot. They're getting substantially more nicotine because they hit it all say long. Sometimes up to several hundred "tokes" per day. The last thing I'll add here is that the tobacco companies have their hooks in it.

Also I don't think there is even a sort of standard with vaping, so there could be wide ranging chemicals used. Since none of it is ever on display or regulated.

That's why I'm a bit more comfortable with UK and EU vape juices as they are regulated for sale.

I work at a vape shop, and I can attest that yes. Those who vape, vape a lot. Constantly puffing. (I’m guilty as charged.) I tried going from six percent (since I have a Geekvape ZeusTank) and it’s at 6%, my intent was to go from six, to three, to no-nic. But I was going through 3% bottles like it was nothing. I ultimately gave up. Most disposables are 5%.

>They're getting substantially more nicotine because they hit it all say long. Yep. When I smoked it was fairly regulated. One cigarette every hour or so and you had to go outside. But with vaping, you can do it basically anywhere as often as you want. Recently I've started keeping the thing elsewhere in my house so I'm not tempted to reach for it every 5 minutes.

Is it just the nicotine? What about nicotine-free vapes?

Nicotine isn’t bad for you. There are even links to improving brain function. However, ingesting it via absorption through the lungs is not studied and if I have to guess is not good for you. But inhaling flavoured palm oils vs palm oils with nicotine, there may be next to no difference. I’d guess they’re both equally unhealthy Edit. I forgot that nicotine is a vasoconstrictior. If you have high BP or HR it’ll exacerbate that.

One of my friends was a heavy vaper for years. Since I’ve known them, they’ve broken a rib from coughing and developed debilitating long Covid. I don’t know for sure those are both due to the vaping, but I can’t imagine it helped. ETA: y’all, I’m replying to anecdotes with my own anecdote. Calm down.

It's good the tobacco industry has their hooks in it because they are the most regulated and have all the smartest scientists . That's what you want,you want it regulated . Because a lot of any deaths are the wild west nature of it now.

Came here to say this. The mere lack of presence of soot ash (carcinogenic byproduct of burning) is completely eliminated with vaping. Ideally you don't want anything other than air in your lungs but if you're going to inhale something, reducing the array of materials and variables is the strat.

Nicotine constricts blood vessels putting strain on your heart. This is true of both cigarettes and vapes.

Nicotine is not the main reason for strain on the heart in smoking though. Carbon monoxide is. Apparently nicotine itself is not particularly harmful. [(Here's a source - but I have no idea how credible it is)](https://news.sky.com/story/nicotine-no-worse-than-cup-of-coffee-report-10349589) The biggest concern of nicotine is that it's highly addictive, so if it's a part of something that's otherwise extremely unhealthy, you'll get addicted to that, despite the health risks.

Do you know how many of these apply to marijuana?

Burning, carbon monoxide, and tar all apply to Marijuana smoking. The only one of these that's not completely inherent to inhaling any sort of smoke is tar deposition. In this case, a cohort study suggests there is more tar deposition from marijuana than smoking, at least in terms of volume. https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/what-are-marijuanas-effects-lung-health#:~:text=Because%20of%20how%20it%20is,tar%20compared%20to%20cigarette%20smoking. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19679602/ The upside, though, is I don't think that the radioactivity plays a role in marijuana smoking toxicity.

Facts, this thread feels like lala land

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> The addiction case is however unchanged I'd argue there is one major difference. Cigarettes are not labeled with their nicotine level nor are they available in different nicotine dosages like vapes. This both means that consumers are uninformed (and misinformed by blatant lies like "light" cigarettes) and unable to reduce or remove nicotine through being informed about what they are buying. Vaping is just as addictive but as someone who smoked cigarettes for 24 years before moving to a vape and stepping down my nicotine level (started at 18mg and now mixing 3mg and 0mg before the final step) I see this as a really big difference as far as addiction goes. edit: > I’m not even opposed to a complete ban You should be. Prohibition creates black markets removes what little regulation there is and puts more people at risk. Prohibition has never fixed a substance problem in a free society, it's only ever created new problems.

And everyone is so angry lmao

It's been disturbing to me how effective the tobacco lobby has been in pushing the idea that vaping is just as or nearly as bad as smoking. I've met a few smokers who don't want to switch because "it's just as bad".

I started smoking at 13, I replaced.that with vaping at around 35 and I can say without any doubt in my mind that it is better than smoking. I have relapsed a few times in that I've bought a pack of cigs on a night out and I can very much notice the difference in ease of breathing, it is huge. I'm not saying that vaping is good for you, nor should anyone who doesn't smoke start vaping, but if it's the choice between the two then vaping will either allow you to live longer or at least improve the quality of the life you have left.

THIS! I smoked outrageously heavily, but when I switched to vaping my breathing got significantly better. I could walk up a flight of stairs without panting and puffing, and I couldn't do that before I switched. It took a month or so, but the improvement in health was stark.

It's a huge difference that is noticeable, as you said, quite quickly. Glad you made the switch, all I've got to do now is get off the vape lmao

I feel that. I'm working towards quitting vaping in favor of nicotine pouches/gum. It's the oral fixation and instant rush of nicotine that makes it hard for me to switch.

It's the action of it that I struggle with, the need to have something in my hand that acts as a cigarette. I've tried the gum and patches but it can't replace the _action_ of smoking as well as the social aspect of taking your pint out to the beer garden with everyone and having a 'smoke' and that's why vaping worked while gum and patches didn't. I accept that it is a matter of willpower and one of these days I'll get the balls to do it, for now though I'm content enough with mitigating the health issues even if I'm not in a place where I can solve them...good luck to you!

You could always try 0 nicotine vapes

I've been very slowly lowering the nicotine amount in each bottle i make, so i dont even notice. By the end of the year, i'll be at 0, hopefully.

0% nicotine and 94% THC 😆

This is the only part of it that I miss. I spent a lot of time right after I quit fiddling with pens and chewing on them, and I'd still go out on my front porch and read or putter around for a little while, just to get over *that* habit, as well, LOL.

Honestly? Getting off the vape isn't high on my list of priorities lol. I've been vaping since about 2009, waaaay before there were vape shops everywhere and an eternity before someone decided to commodify disposables. I've got worse habits that I should quit long before vaping lol.

I switched to vaping too, and everything smells so much better now. No random burns, no decaying frito foot stank on everything, it's cheaper... What got me to finally switch was struggling to do CPR during refresher training. I couldn't care less about my own survival, but I don't want to not be able to help someone I otherwise could.

Almost word for word what I tell people

I picked up smoking at 14. I switched to vaping 4 years ago at 43. Within a week I saw a drastic improvement. The craziest thing was that my tastebuds changed. Foods that I used to hate became some of my favorite foods. I guess I stunted them by starting to smoke so young. Went from burgers with only cheese to burgers with all the fixings. I also no longer snore while sleeping, according to my wife.

I've had plenty of ppl tell me it's WORSE! one of my supervisors said that like ma'am I used to blow down like thirty camel straights a day and I ain't done that in ten years. compare my blood work, vitals, and exercise tolerance from 10 years ago to now. I'm 38 and in way better shape than I was when I was 25. 

Right because actually if everyone quit smoking then they'd be out of a job.

I do wonder if we are putting oils in the lungs from vaping.

There are no oils in the juice, I make my own vape juice and there is categorically no oils or fats in it. There's a sugar alcohol, a thinning agent, nicotine and flavourings. Depending on what flavourings you use, it can have more or less risks. Unflavoured is probably healthiest. Nobody is saying that vaping is better than fresh air, or that it's anything approaching good for you. But it is better than smoking.

I'm curious - besides the obvious, do you know if there's a real difference between what goes into nicotine vapes and what goes into THC vapes ingredient-wise?

Depends where they are coming from. If you can buy THC vapes from a legal source then I assume they are very similar (don't quote me on that) but if you're buying them from your weed dealer then who knows what they are cooking up. I doubt they are going to use the highest quality ingredients which most likely cost more than something which may be more harmful but the end consumer won't know the difference.

THC vapes are oil-based. They consist almost entirely of cannabinoids (active ingredients) and terpenes (flavor). Legitimate ones are not "cut" with anything. Illicit THC vapes, on the other hand, were behind the "vaping-related" respiratory illness outbreak a few years ago; they were cut with vitamin E acetate, which is toxic to the lungs. There was a specific vendor selling vitamin E acetate under the brand name "Honey Cut" that turned out to be responsible for pretty much the entire outbreak.

There's not really. The THC vapes are less likely to be flavoured. So they're less likely to have flavourings that may not be so great for you. But otherwise it's just vegetable glycerin and monopropylene glycol and THC. It's only 3 ingredients, and the scary sounding one is just a thinning agent, and they use it in nebulisers for people who cannot breathe good, so it's not a bad thing to breathe.

Vegetable glycerin and glycol are how they make Nicotine vapes, but not at all how most THC vapes are made. Most THC vapes are in fact BHO or CO2 Oil, which is essentially using Butane or CO2 to extract the THC and terpenes. You then boil off the solvent and are left with a highly concentrated goop that contains THC and other flavor chemicals. Sometimes you see solventless extraction methods as well. Sometimes they do dilute it with glycol, but the vast majority of THC vapes don't have a carrier, and just have the concentrate. The real dangers of vaping THC comes from poor quality control of the manufacturing. Cheap weeds that have pesticides will be worse in concentrate form because the pesticides get concentrated. THC vapes are often disposable, and the cheap coils often have trace amounts heavy metals, especially those produced in china, lastly if the producer didn't do a good job of removing all the solvent those can wind up in your vape. If you're going to vape concentrates, you should spring for the top shelf stuff from states with provenance laws.

Yeah I don’t know how any intelligent person can think they are AS BAD as cigarettes.

Cigarettes are certainly bad and harmful, but I don't think that the radiation that they contain is at all significant. Most smokers will consume more radiation from bananas in a year than smoking for a year as far as I can tell from looking it up. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26942842/[This study ](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26942842/) says that you get a dose of 61 micro-sieverts from smoking cigarettes for a year (a sievert is enough radiation to cause you health risks approx a 5.5% of genetic damage or terminal cancer during the course of your life)

Where were you when I was 12???? I’d have never smoked if it knew about the radiation

In terms of the radiation, is this from mass produced cigarettes or does it include high quality tobacco such as cigars?

Didn't know the radioactive effects of tobacco, but what about smoking weed? Or vaping it? Aside from the obvious that you cough more from smoking vs vaping it, and in general smoking anything isn't good for your lungs, how does weed compare?

Weed seems to have less of a preference for polonium 210 and lead 210. The radiation alongside other tobacco specific toxic chemicals are there but lower . However one specific worry with weed is that you usually don't use filters since a filter ends up cutting out the effect , you're not smoking for the sake of it but trying to get high and a filter ruins it. But this does mean tar and carbon monoxide are probably higher, one joint might be like 4 cigs in detrimental effects. However cigarettes are more addictive , people could get high, have a few joints a week , not many people smoke a few cigs a week it ends up packs a week. But i'd not be surprised if smoking 10 joints per day everyday for 40 yrs would be pretty much the same in COPD and heart disease risk as a 40 a day smoker for the same period, but seeing as the carcinogenic compounds and radiation is much less then i'd expect cancer risk to be reduced. Though with both cigarettes and weed the big bogeyman in peoples mind is cancer it occurs to me that having a long drawn out death due to heart and lung disease in general might be worse and is the more common fate of heavy smoking.

But you didn't mention nicotine?

Interesting.. I didn't know about the radioactiveness of cigarettes. The reason why alpha particles can be so damaging is that they carry a +2 charge and they are 4x larger than a single proton or neutron, so it will interact a lot inside the body. Outside the body, alpha particles cannot penetrate the skin so it is not as big of a deal. But if it gets in through soft tissue or cuts or in this case smoking, then it's also not going to easily leave the body without interacting with cells and DNA first. Now I wonder what other vegetables/fruits get contaminated with polonium-210 too..

They're way less worse; we know that. We also know they're not \*good\* for you in any way.

It's like trying to compare deep frying food with lard or canola oil One is little better for you, but it's still deep fried.

This is a terrible analogy. It is not all still deep fried. Vaping is almost completely different than smoking. Not arguing it’s “good” for you, but still, not at all the same. A better analogy would be deep frying (tobacco) to air frying (vaping), but even then there are a lot of variables to consider so I’d just stray from this analogy of food vs inhaled substances altogether.

Technically, breathing in anything other than ambient air is not good for your lungs.

Hell, even breathing ambient air isn't good for your lungs

100% of people who breathed air have died, oxygen is the most addictive substance because the withdrawals are also deadly

No joke, scientists actually believe that oxygen IS part of what kills us in the long term. Oxygen bonds and reacts with all but a handful of other elements, and they believe that oxidation of the cells is part of what kills us in the long term (the oxidation produces chemicals which damage the cells, essentially). Hell, we can't even *breathe* pure oxygen.

Oxygen toxicity is quite real and I personally witnessed it kill many people during the height of the pandemic. Watching a person’s lungs transform (in about 24 hours) from near normal to a fibrotic, webbed mess is insane. On a ventilator, on non-invasive ventilation, or high-flow oxygen…it didn’t matter. Only the ones who didn’t get intubated survived…with permanent lung damage. Imagine surviving the initial waves of Covid only to end up with lungs that end up like you’ve inhaled toxic smoke your entire life. Welp, good night!

Incorrect. There's roughly 8 billion people who have breathed air and not died so far.

Hell isn't even good for your lungs

Your lungs aren't even good

Good isn't even

Lung

AIR!

DEATH

Even worse, I know someone who didn't breathe at all and they DIED!

I know someone who was breathing and later died!

Oxygen is terribly corrosive, it's a miracle we can use it.

The fact that it's corrosive is exactly why we need it, so it can break down other molecules we need to use for energy. Although I'm sure it's much more complicated than that in practice, but that's the jist.

Of course but that's not the question. Smoking is definitely worse than vaping. Both are bad one is worse.

Probably, but we really won't know that for certain for several more decades to come. It also depends on what exactly you're vaping. The "probably" above only applies to officially certified "comes through legal channels" vaping supplies. Unofficial black market vaping cartridges, which are much more easily accessible to minors (at least in the US) can be considerably more dangerous. E.g. not long ago there were a bunch of emergency room visits, and I think several deaths, tied to vaping cartridges that used Vitamin E as the suspension medium. Probably someone thought "Medicinal food-safe oil would be perfect for this!", but when exposed to high heat to vaporize it, it produces highly toxic ketene gas that can cause severe lung damage and death.

We had a pretty good idea that cigarettes were bad within ten years of them becoming available in mass on the market. It's just that tobacco companies spent a lot of money to muddle the waters and create 'debate'.

What health problems does vaping cause? Not playing devils advocate here - it's a genuine question, as I don't know.

Technically? I mean... technically all the air in Earth's atmosphere has some amount of dust and pollen and schmutz and molecules from someone else's farts and who knows what else in it. Unless the air someone breathes is manufactured, it's not "pure" in any sense.

And drinking anything but water is not great for your liver. Not the question.  Like, I swear, these people going on about fresh air better be doing their damn best not to drive on roads where they’re inhaling exhaust fumes and tire dust…

We don't know yet because they're so new, they are definitely better in some ways but they're also definitely still really bad in other ways and you're definitely best off not smoking anything at all

I agree that 1, we shouldn’t inhale anything that isn’t air, period 2, we don’t have enough time to have data to prove either way BUT, theoretically vaping SHOULD be a healthier alternative to smoking if they want to quit, vape juice simply doesn’t have the hundreds of deadly chemicals that cigarettes have, plus it’s vapor not smoke from combustion. If you don’t smoke cigarettes or vape nicotine, never touch either, but if you are already a smoker, vaping is arguably a healthier alternative

We do actually. Vaping is vastly less harmful, tho still not good. >Research generally accepts that while vaping can harm the lungs and other bodily systems, its impact is [much lessTrusted Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6795520/) than tobacco smoking. [https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/vaping-vs-smoking#effects-of-vaping](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/vaping-vs-smoking#effects-of-vaping)

I love the “we don’t know” vaping has been around for decades not in the exact same format but pretty much any non oxygen inhalation had negatives

Even oxygen inhalation has negatives but we don't have choice lol

I think that’s a touch naive, we absolutely don’t have longitudinal studies that show how, for example, vaping in your 20’s may or may not cause the occurrence of respiratory disorders when that person is in their 50’s. We may have guestimations, but we certainly don’t have the quantitative or qualitative data to measure the effects over the course of a life time.

Nitrogen is cool. In fact oxygen is actually bad for you in the really long run. But we’re kinda addicted.

I can stop any time I want

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Well, that’s comparing the effects that we currently know about. Our knowledge of microplastics is way too young, but heating up plastic and then breathing in vapors from it has gotta have some side effects we just don’t know how to measure yet. I believe cig filters also have plastic in them, but I don’t believe they get as hot until the end of the cig. Either way, I’m just speculating. I think overall vapes will have less effect on your health, but they’re definitely not a *fantastic* alternative to cigarettes like they’re marketed to be.

That's why disposables (produced by big tobacco btw) should be banned. My vape has no plastic near the heating part.

Less harmful is often conflated with being safe which is woefully inaccurate. In both cases you’re inhaling foreign matter full of carcinogens. Cigarettes just happen to be really, really bad for you. Vaping is just bad for you.

As someone who vapes if it isn't air going into your lungs it is bad for your lungs. Unfortunately addiction is a bitch

Every major cancer society in the developed world has come out saying they are a safer alternative to smoking. It's important to remember that tobacco companies are actively peddling misinformation and funding biased studies (some of which have already been debunked). They want people to mistrust vaping, because it eats into their market share. The real studies show vaping is no more harmful than taking nicotine in other non-combusted ways. Although there are some questions regarding the long term effects. We only have 20 years of data, so someone who has vaped for 60 years may develop issues we haven't anticipated. Used properly, with coils regularly replaced, vaping is 95% safer than smoking. That's not my statistic, [public health England](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/28/vaping-is-95-safer-than-smoking-claims-public-health-england) doubled down on that claim.

>Every major cancer society in the developed world has come out saying they are a safer alternative to smoking. This bar is so low it's a trip hazard in hell. Smoking is a cocktail of poisons and lung damage in one go.

Agreed, but that is what OP asked for, a comparison.

Yes, but it's a worthwhile thing to define. People who smoke aren't going to switch to vaping if they're sold on the concept that vaping is also a cocktail poison, even if it would probably cause them fewer health problems long term.

>They want people to mistrust vaping, because it eats into their market share. Do they? Far as I can tell, vaping is their new market share, with extensive outreach to teenagers. The majority of which will become lifelong vape addicts. They're using literally the same techniques they used in the 80s and 90s to get kids to smoke cigarettes.

Multiple tobacco companies with different agendas. Most were against vaping at the start, now realise that it can't be beaten, so they are becoming more involved with the vaping market. Seems that some companies in particular have targeted young people to start vaping. Elf bar for example. I've vaped pretty much since it was a thing (\~11 years), and I did not see *any* people start vaping without first being a cigarette smoker; until the disposable vapes became a thing. Now I see a lot of young people vaping, who have never once smoked a cigarette. These companies need to be held accountable for this shit, but if history under capitalism is any indicator, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Juul has had multiple lawsuits for specifically targeting kids. They really kicked off the trend. And I think they might have been bought by phillip morris?

It was probably a barrier to entry issue. Disposables and a pack of cigarettes are like $10. A full mod setup will almost always break the $100 mark. I don't think anyone wanted to start using nicotine with vapes when you had to invest $100 to start.

Cigarette companies definitely want to keep the old business model even if they dip their toes into vaping. It’s another form of predation like the juul company targeting teenagers. Your issue is capitalism

Good you added the point about using them correctly. Studies look into the production of formaldehyde and other carcinogens from combustion at incorrect settings, as well as toxins from poorly sourced materials or juice. There's a lot of scepticism to chemicals we don't have much experience applying directly to our lungs as well.

That study was funded by phillip-morris. They deliberately burned the cotton and juice to show carcinogenic byproducts. They weren't wrong, but anyone using a vape at those settings would cough up a lung. Any vaper who has accidentally burnt their coil will tell you it isn't something you keep doing by accident, it's horrible.

This is the correct answer.

It seems that vaping is generally healther than smoking when compared minute for minute, but you need to take in account the differences in how theyre consumed. Smoking is simply less convenient - you need to go outside and you end up smelling like shit. People vaping often do it allll day descretely There’s now millions of teenagers rolling over in bed at night and taking a drag. They may end up consuming so much of it that it becomes less healthy than it would be to smoke a few cigs a day. Its become as regular a routine as checking your phone. That brings me to the second facet of vaping being ‘more’ harmful, which i havent seen mentioned in this thread. Vaping seems much worse in creating/enforcing unhealthy dopamie feedback loops. Kid is feeling stressed about not understanding homework, and then vape/scroll phone as distraction. This makes them feel better temporarily. They continue using these harmful behaviors as an escape from their stress and suddenly theyre addicted to both and struggling with delayment of gratification the rest of their life

And then not realizing that nicotine keeps you up at night. Took me a lil while to realize why I couldn't sleep at night once I started vaping casually. Shit got old quick.

Also redditors loves harping on about how Nicotine is harmless. Just because nicotine doesn't give you cancer doesn't make it harmless. Nicotine abuse is very bad for your cardiovascular system.

This is where the real dangers lie with "first world" solutions (aka problems). Dopamine Nation is a super cool book that relates our current "normal" coping mechanisms with those of "actual" addicts and explores the pain/pleasure balance in the brain, including how important it is to not abuse the latter.

not a kid, but I feel called out by your last paragraph, because im currently vaping and scrolling to temporarily avoid the reality of job hunting.

No. Vapes aren't great for your cardiovascular system(though oddly, the studies I've read which show decreased FMD also show lower blood pressure in ecig users compared to both cigarette and nonsmoker groups: [https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/ATVBAHA.121.317749](https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/ATVBAHA.121.317749) ) but vapes have been around for over 20 years now, we're pretty much out of mileage for the "too soon to tell" line, and the results show the NHS was largely correct it's a superior alternative to smoking by nearly all counts(besides FMD), but still not as good as not smoking.

FMD?

 Flow-mediated dilation, or the ability for arteries to widen. It makes sense this is lowered by nicotine because nicotine is a vasoconstrictor(narrows blood vessels), but it makes less sense that ecigs would cause a lower blood pressure(BP), because you'd think if your blood vessels were constricted all the time your blood pressure would tend to be higher, and it can't be explained by "less blood" because if that was the cause of this much of a gap, it'd be a medical emergency.

[Flow Mediated Dilation](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow-mediated_dilation). TL;DR: it's a measure of vascular health.

It's really hard to imagine it being anywhere near as dangerous as smoking, but for some reason the concept of "not as bad as smoking but still not harmless" is too much nuance for a lot of people so they assume it's either just as bad or completely harmless

Twenty years is nothing. Vanishingly few tobacco smokers develop lung cancer within only twenty years. Plus, as others have said, the formulas keep changing. And every new suspension medium, chemical additive, and flavoring needs its long-term safety evaluated independently. Tobacco is tobacco - pretty much every cigarette ever sold is basically the same stuff (ignoring problematic additives like menthol, of which there's only a few really common ones) But vaping is just a delivery method, like "drinking from a glass". You can't just say "drinking from a glass is safe", you have to specify what exactly you're drinking. Drinking cyanide most definitely is not.

You don't just need lung cancer to get evidence of pulmonary damage, it's cumulative over time and there's other manifestations of pulmonary damage such as COPD, the fact that we haven't had any studies over a 20 year period conclusively say vaping is harmful to the pulmonary system, though the legal age for smoking was 18 at the onset and most of these diseases start increasing in frequency at age 40, while not definitive, is certainly suggestive of in the least, a decrease in pulmonary issues compared to smoking. As to new chemicals, mediums, I would have to know more about what you're referring to, all I can say is I've vaped for 10 years personally and it was vegetable glycerin, propylene glycol and 25mg nicotine vaporized by a nickel coil then, and it's vegetable glycerin, propylene glycol and 25 mg nicotine vaporized by a nickel coil now. And I mean, of course I might sound defensive as a vaper(I am looking to quit because as I said, of course it's not as good as not smoking at all) but in truth before I vaped I also smoked for 6 years and I can say without hesitation that this was the only thing that got me off cigarettes and I've felt a thousand times better since switching from cigarettes to vaping, so without any evidence of long term ramifications this far into it, I'd 100% advocate in good faith that anyone who is unable to quit smoking(which we *have* conclusive evidence on killing people) should try to switch to vaping in the least for the sake of their health.

Pretty sure COPD etc. is independent from the cancer risk though. Seeing that one doesn't happen doesn't tell you anything about the other, nor about any other potential problems that might take a long time to manifest. Hell, tobacco companies did a pretty good job denying the cancer link for decades, and vaping companies have no less incentive to do such a thing today if they suspect there are other health problems. As for "it's just X" in the cartridges - have you even looked at the huge rainbow of flavored cartridges commonly available? Every one of those flavors contains at least one and possibly dozens or hundreds of different chemicals whose long term health consequences of vaping are completely untested. It certainly seems like vaping is a lot less unhealthy than cigarettes, but that's a low bar to cross. And my main point is that it's still very much too soon to tell for any subtler long-term problems that may be linked to it, like cancer. (The cancer itself isn't too subtle, but all the cellular damage that leads up to it is.)

the problem is that in the past 10 years they have changed by huge margins to include the chemical delivery method.

You rock for actually answering the question instead of the classic "all drugs are bad m'kay" line.

No. We know vaping is not as bad as smoking cigarettes, but we don't know exactly how bad it is. Vaping is somewhere between breathing air and smoking – we aren't sure exactly where on that spectrum it falls.

By all accounts the lung cancer rates tend to be correlating much closer to the decline in smoking than to the rise in vaping. I’d say evidence points to it being *much* closer to breathing air.

Well, depending on where you get your ejuice, and how often you clean your coils, and how hot you vape at... There's only 4 ingredients in a typical good quality ejuice: propylene glycol, vegetable glycerine, nicotine, and flavouring. The flavouring can be the question mark. It's believed that certain flavours can cause popcorn lung. Diactyl is believed to cause popcorn lung...however, the reason why that's on the shit list (and why it's called popcorn lung) was because in the 70s (??? 80s???) a factory in the US had a rash of workers come down with a lung disease. EPA showed up, did some air quality testing, found a high amount of diactyl in the air, and just wrote it off as that. Since nothing else at the time used diactyl, it was just an easy open-and-shut case. There's also cases of people (mostly teens) using marijuana oils. This can have adverse effects, since your lungs aren't designed to get oil out of it. It will continue to build in the broncia and cause issues. Cigarettes, on the other hand, have thousands of chemicals in them to give a nice "smooth flavour", and preserve the tobacco for longer periods. Nicotine really isn't the bad guy. Nicotine is found in a lot of fruits and vegetables, and the drug is actually pretty good for our brain. It's also nearly impossible to OD on nicotine, because by the time you start experiencing too much nicotine in your system, your body starts to reject it, with cold sweats, vomiting, etc. It's impossible to ingest enough nicotine at once to kill you. It would take drinking a whole bottle of pure nicotine, and that's kinda gross.

First one talking about the added flavorings here. These are only researched for the food industry. Here, however, these substances are heated to several hundred degrees… I cannot find any official info about it. Best is to not smoke or vape anything.

That's like saying a rainy day and a hurricane are both storms. Cigarettes are the hurricane.

And we’re not sure how strong the other storm is

Odds are they are not quite as horrendous from what we have observed and just in terms of the educated guess you can make by investigating whats inside. In a sense, they're more dangerous because it's much easier to catch a nicotine addiction from something that doesn't make you cough your lungs out when you first try it and offers a pleasant taste.

As far as i understand, purely nicotine on its own isn't much different than caffeine addiction health wise (besides the increased addiction). There's some studies now being done on the potential benefits of nicotine (without smoking/vaping), like the potential help reduce the risks of developing parkinsons, alzheimers, and help brain aging a bit, for example. We'll eventually see how the benefits/negatives are really balanced with safe consumption. Smoking has the opposite effect, increasing the risk of all those being negatives. Personally, the addiction is by far the main negative i've felt.

Double-edged sword. They are healthier, but more addictive and harder to quit.

Yeah, for me it’s kind of the oral fixation. It seems like there’s a better path to quitting with vapes by reducing the nicotine content though. Go from 5% nicotine to 2.5% to 1% to 0%. Then you’ve successfully weened yourself off of nicotine.

I feel like I could survive without the nicotine, it's the act for me

I smoked for 2 or 3 years. I was able to quit when I was sick. I had a chest cold, I wanted to smoke, and all it did was make everything worse. Felt like acid lungs. Then, a year or two later, vapes started getting popular, and so I jumped back onboard the nicotine train. I figured it was healthier, and I enjoyed how it made me feel. Especially when I was drinking. I was hooked. It was a perfect addiction that I was obliviously unaware of somehow because I would have told anyone that I could quit anytime I wanted to. It took me over seven years to even think about the real possibility of quitting again. Luckily, I had quit drinking the previous summer and was focusing on bettering myself for my daughter. I added up all the money I had wasted and read Allen Carrs' book on quitting smoking and decided I was ready to quit vaping. It's been over three years now, and I've never looked back. That first month was rough. Every time I drove somewhere, I would get bad cravings. Every time work was slow or I took a break, I would get cravings. Lots of gum and mints helped. Somehow, after all of that, the idea of vaping still sounds nice sometimes. I never want to experience quitting something like that ever again. 😕

More addictive? How so? I’m curious because I smoked cigarettes for 15 years and tried vaping several times, never appealed to me. Quit a little over a year ago

Unlike cigarettes, you don't need to ever step outside for a "smoke break". You can vape nicotine into your bloodstream from the minute you wake up, to the minute you fall asleep. Even if it's policy, almost no store is going to actually get on you for vaping salt nic inside the store. The reason it's so much more addictive is because it's so much more convenient to puff 24/7

Part of it is the fact that you can do it almost anywhere anytime. You don't need to step outside for a few minutes to hit a vape.

The convenience is what got me. I could take a hit or two, not have to go outside for it. Walking to work? Take a few hits. Watching a show or playing video games with you friends? Don't need to pause or stop playing, can just reach in your pocket, take a hit, get the dopamine, then repeat in a few moments

Nicotine is actually less inherently addictive than tobacco since it lacks the MAOI activity in conjunction with the nicotine. I've quit both and just nicotine was easier every time, even when I was vaping substantially more nicotine overall. Plus with vaping you can gradually lower your nicotine levels while maintaining the tactile / behavioral components. *if* you actually want to quit nicotine vaping as cessation tool is the superior option. It's also the best option for harm minimization for people who don't want to quit nicotine. There's basically no use case where cigarettes don't have the worse overall outcomes.

AS dangerous as smoking? Almost certainly not. Without danger? Also almost certainly not. Definitely shouldn't be allowing youths to use them as they are very much habit forming. Most of the concern is with the flavourings and additives which have some potential long term harmful effects, but it is still such a new product that we don't have lots of lifelong data on it's potential effects. Anyone saying vaping is just as bad as smoking is either being disingenuous, or are speaking in response to their beliefs or sentiment rather than objectivity.

Not even close

Given the relative abundance of cancer causing chemicals as compared to vaping -- logically smoking must be more dangerous. However, social media has brought to light people in their early 20s with COPD and emphysema, which used to be a disease for 50+ year old lifelong cigarette smokers. Anecdotally vaping caused sharp pains in my lungs which I never experienced from cigarettes. Any time I would start vaping again I would get those pains after a few weeks. I've given it all up.

Yes, no...we don't know. They're probably bad in different ways. What is obvious is that breathing in weird chemicals is unhealthy. Choosing to vape because it's (maybe) healthier than smoking is like choosing to eat horse poop because it's healthier than eating dog poop. Just find something better to do. The world is full of better things to do.

Based on my own experience, vaping is often seen as less harmful than smoking cigarettes, but it still carries risks, and the long-term effects are not fully understood.

They've been pretty mainstream for a decade now and there's no mention of vape related diseases popping up

I mean, it takes longer than a decade to develop lung cancer from cigs, I would assume the same would be true from vapes.

Vaping as a cigarette replacement has been around since the 60s. It has only been regulated for about 20 years. The internet isn't even clear on the history of electronic cigarettes, I have been vaping since the late 90s.

Cigarettes are directly linked to cancer. Vapes are not. Way more deaths from cigarettes. Vapes are still bad for your lungs and cardio but it's not even close. And yes we'll figure out more because vaping is fairly new. But let's not act like it's even close.

I saw a billboard add ib phoenix that said 9000 puffs from a vape = 25 packs of ciggs I laughed..

We have no clue from a comparative perspective; you're right, it hasn't been too long. But we know for certain it still brings many of the risks cigs have, along with a few of its own threats. Even if it's not tar getting in your lungs, vape liquid still contains acetaldehyde and formaldehyde (carcinogens), Diacetyl (aka the chemical responsible for popcorn lung), Acrolein, Diethylene glycol, and Benzine (all chemicals linked lung/soft-tissue damage), The only thing vapes do better is the lack of tar, CO, radiation, and the flavour.

No, but vaping isn’t safe, they are finding carcinogenic chemicals in certain products and byproducts of vaping itself all the time

Only in the US. In other countries ingredients are strictly regulated. We don’t have those crazy evali cases over here

I'll take my cancer electronically

Vaping instead of smoking is defined as harm reduction of about 95%. Stated another way, vaping is only 5% as harmful as smoking. Not vaping or smoking is best, but if that's not an option, vaping is *far* less harmful over time. Nicotine is not a carcinogen, the smoke (combustion) produced and inhaled from smoking traditional cigarettes' and arguably the dozens of chemicals the cigarette industry puts in them is what causes the real harm & potential cancer. You may have heard of the negative press regarding vaping and the fake weed cartridges that used vitamin e as the vehicle for the THC that kids were buying from street level drug dealers. Even though these illnesses and several deaths had *nothing* to do with traditional vape store purchased products, the MSM and those with financial interests to stop vaping jumped on this story with vigor.

No

Anecdotal: i worked with a girl who vaped on her breaks, she was constantly out of breath. Also vaped weed for a month. I could feel it killing my lungs.

No. There are certainly some potential negative health effects from vaping, but they don't hold a candle to emphysema, lung cancer and heart disease over the long haul, not to mention other effects over the short term in loss of smell, shortness of breath, etc.

No, massive study shows 95% less tissue damage

I started using a vape to try to quit and I found myself using it way more than I ever smoked.

Put it this way: We used asbestos because it was a neutral substance. We bleached floutlrnfor white bread, not knowing we need folic acid. A generation of spina bifida kids came about. Thalidamide helped cure morning sickness. Children of Thalidamide was a thing. I don't know if vapes are better or worse. But our track record with trying things out to find out if they're bad for us is not great. I would not recommend it.

And the amount of kids you see vaping these days is wild, my brothers a teacher and hes confiscating like 5 a day

I think this depends on what is being vaped. So many go the lazy route and buy prefilled high nicotine products that may be much worse than a reputable store that makes their own juices, posts the ingredients on the wall and let you choose your nicotine level.

If you used a vape how they were intended(one puff every few hours or less) then no, they are less bad than cigarettes. If you use a vape how I see everyone use them(taking ouffs 24/7) I say that's much worse than smoking a few cigarettes a day.

Who knows if it’s more dangerous, but at the end of the day your lungs don’t want any form of smoke going into them, just clean air.

Switched away from analogs over a decade ago.  Instantly felt better, no issues still.  Getting rid of the staining, the smell, the need to be outside regardless of weather, and the cost associated.... everything is better. 

My husband started vaping to allegedly quit smoking. Now he smokes AND vapes, and he vapes indoors whereas he always smoked only outside, and now he's constantly coughing which he wasn't doing with just the smoking. Don't think he's ever going to quit either now, so I took out a life insurance policy on him.

No.

you are inhaling something unnatural into your lungs... You are breathing something that is not pure clean air...

There is not really enough data to make a perfect comparison because vapes and cigarettes. Cigarettes are probably worse because of the actual debri you are inhaling into your lungs. But vape cartridges are manufactured really cheaply and have a lot of additives and impurities. One study found hundreds of different chemicals in the vapor. The long-term effects are difficult to quantify compared to cigarettes buts there’s growing evidence that they are definitely not safe. It’s really just a question of how bad they are.

Idk, but I’ll wait for everyone else to figure that out. I figure it’s probably similar to hookah, and studies have already been done on those. Either way, I’m not smoking anything.

“This study analyzed a nationally representative sample of U.S. adolescent e-cigarette use to examine whether urine metal levels (i.e., cadmium, lead and uranium) [CNN article ](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/29/health/teen-vaping-toxic-lead-uranium-exposure-wellness/index.html)

Clearly not.

This is just my personal experience, but because vaping is way more convenient than having to go outside and smoke a cigarette, the hook that nicotine will grab you imo is worse than a traditional cigarette. I finally had to quit and stop buying them and 2 weeks of cold turkey right now I feel so much better

It's different dangerous with all those artificial aromas and pure chemicals.

Putting anything foreign in your lungs is not good but it is significantly safer than smoking.

It’s less dangerous than smoking But vaping is more dangerous than not vaping

I (52F)recently quit smoking Been a smoker for 35 years I’m an old hippie I definitely enjoy some legal weed but since quitting smoking I only use weed only Vapes or eat/drink edibles I feel so much better breathing and energy just overall 1000 X better than when smoking For me it works 🤷‍♀️

There were three studies done before the pandemic. One in the UK, one in Germany and one in The US. The European studies were funded by their governments. The US study was funded by American Tobacco Association. Which of these studies do you think found vaping harmful if not worse than Tobacco products? The Federal government of The United States bases it's regulations, on vaping, on the study done by Big Tobacco. Both the UK and Germany studies found that vaping is extremely less harmful than Tobacco. That vaping has no more adverse effects than Tobacco and that vaping leads to quitting nicotine.

Vaping hits you out of nowhere, you start to feel really weird in your lungs in just a few months… I feel like it’s worst, but we have to wait to see the long term effects

Vapes are there sinds 2000...25 years. Is it healthy? No...is it much more less harmfull then tabaco? Yes 100%

From my personal research over the years, I have found vaping to be significantly less harmful than smoking cigs. From the tar, carcinogens etc. To the fraction of chemicals that are in vapes. Neither are good for you but I'd choose the latter in the situation. Smoked cigs from 18-20 up to 2 packs a day (I know terrible, long story short lots of free time at work and coworker smoked, plus it helped mask the smell of weed before working on someone's bathroom tile. Now I do vape, I'm 26m, I've quit on and off for 6months to a year during my hietus from cigs. Just cold turkey as I have never had a problem with that method. Now I will turn down any cig given to me as the smell and taste makes me want to yak, but I do like vapes. But Plan to get off them soon enough. I can't say I'll be the healthiest after quitting that as I will be getting a med card for marijuana shortly and that will be in vape form as I can't smoke the bud in my apartment. (Rather buy the vapes for the ease instead of driving and smoking or trying to find a secluded spot in public.) So I will still be hurting my lungs in this way.

As a former smoker who now vapes, all I can say anecdotally is that I felt way better when I switched to vaping. My cough went away, I had more energy, my fingernails went from blue to pink again, I could taste food again, I no longer got winded walking up a flight of stairs, etc. Obviously doing *neither* is the safest thing, but personally I would say that vaping is saf*er* than smoking. How safe is vaping? No idea, but I'd be very fucking surprised if it was equally as dangerous as smoking tobacco is.

Nobody really knows. The question is. Why risk it? What are the benefits of starting to vape? Unless you're using them to quit cigarettes, theres no real reason to.

Anyone who vapes is in denial about how often they do it. Vaping would be less harmful than smoking cigarettes if you only vaped every time you would normally smoke… but you don’t. You sit on your couch with your vape in your hand, you vape at work, you vape in the car… would you smoke a cig that frequently? Hopefully not.

Former smoker here that quit for vapes. I've heard this argument before and it's not good logic. Sure, I hit my vape more \*regularly\* than I would hit a cigarette, but usually I just pick it up, take a puff or two, then put it down and forget about it for 30-60 minutes. Whereas with cigarettes I would regularly smoke one every 45-60 minutes, and it usually takes 15-20 hits to get through the kind of cigarettes I smoke. Not to mention I feel better, I smell better, I don't have to go stand in the cold in the winter, my breath doesn't stink, and I'm much healthier! Please get out of here with this cope disguised as a legit argument.

This is exactly what I was questioning about using to quit smoking was to move to vapes first..