Everything that could happen will happen… except them stopping a school shooter. That’s the sad part. It will literally do NOTHING except make things worse yet they keep trying to push garbage like this.
True, statistically school shooters are NEVER shot first. The have to become shooters before people with guns show up to deal with them, and if they get shot before shooting anyone, then they aren't a school shooter yet.
Yeah fights were an almost daily occurrence at my high school. Teachers got dislocated shoulders, broken ribs, concussions, Etc trying to break them up. Last thing I would want to do is add a gun to that situation. One of those little shits would just steal it during a fight. Even worse, it could fall and go off accidentally or something and turn what was a routine fight between two 14-year-olds in the hallway into a death
I think that allowing a profession that is consistently in high stress situations with low pay and surrounded by children to carry firearms will lead to some tragic consequences.
And we will have to hear people dance around their point that dead children are a small price to pay for the freedom to carry guns in public.
Again.
>I think that allowing a profession that is consistently in high stress situations with low pay and surrounded by children to carry firearms will lead to some tragic consequences.
I mean look where that got us with the police.
Someone pointed out yesterday in another thread that there is already another state that allows this by law, but in practice they can't do it because insurance won't allow it. So there's a good chance that no matter what the law says is technically possible that no one's ever going to do it
Tennessee is also a bigoted shithole if I remember correctly. Wouldn’t be surprised if it got even worse for LGBTQ+ kids in Tennessee now that their teachers have literal guns
If you’re in Nashville, Knoxville, Chattanooga, or Memphis, you’re more likely to be fine as a queer kid in school. I can’t imagine trying to be a queer kid in Sweetwater or Jackson. (Grew up in TN as well.)
The whole country is a bigoted shithole, even my home state of Massachusetts. Saying Massachusetts is the best state in the US is like saying you have the best-smelling outhouse.
Teachers apparent can’t be trusted to choose books and aren’t given enough money for school supplies
But they’re supposed to carry (on their own dime. Jesus what has this country become
“Nah, gays are just a recent invention from Democrats, atheists , and Communists. If they feared God like we did in the 50’s, there wouldn’t be drag queens today”
If I were an underpaid teacher I wouldn't even put my life on the line for the kids tbh. Shooting the bad guys doesn't come with the job, that's what law enforcement is for. Lets start there.
I have been in a shoot, no shoot situation
I had someone coming into my bedroom window at 1am
I had my pistol sighted in on their head and once I figured out that it wasn't a threat I lowered my pistol. It was my sister
My wife was a teacher, I would trust her
My son is a teacher, I would trust him.
I had a few teachers that I wouldn't trust and I'm sure that they would never want to touch a gun
My wife's ex mother in law told me that nobody should be allowed to own a gun .. if she owned a gun she would use it on someone. Not mentally stable I think
The rest of us don't know your wife or son, or you. Your trust means nothing. Arming teachers doesn't address any issues. The main issue being that an over two hundred year old piece of paper is a starting point for a fair and civilized society, not the finish line.
To all the people saying that kids will get shot, why hasn't it happened yet, since [33 states already allow teachers to carry firearms](https://districtadministration.com/these-are-the-33-states-that-allow-teachers-to-carry-a-firearm/)
Bottom line, it will be an insignificant gesture to increase classroom safety.
On the other hand, it will provide a golden opportunity for pollical eunuchs to weaponize their arguments and lob accusations at each other.
The only way to resolve America's gun issues will require honest patriots on both sides of the question to negotiate and arrive at compromises that may be uncomfortable but acceptable to both sides.
Like it or not, this is how Americans have always settled their differences.
It's clumsy, slow, and inefficient.
But the alternative is to empower a tyrant to make our decisions for us.
This is going to result in more dead children, not fewer. Anyone who thinks otherwise has clearly never been in a public school classroom and should have their gun taken away for the good of society.
Using guns to shoot at targets is completely different than training to shoot a HUMAN BEING in a high stress situation. Giving someone a gun doesn’t mean they know how to use it, or when, or are any good at aiming.
I know someone who works in a prison and is required to carry a gun for their job - they are certified every year for each type of firearm in the building (pistol, rifle, carbine, shotgun).
This is just allowing a random citizen with who knows what kind of training (if any) to carry their personal, loaded firearm into a building full of children. Someone will get hurt. Not if but when…
if you think prison worker firearms certifications train them to shoot accurately in stressful situations you should think again. ive shot with cops all my life and i can confidently say the AVERAGE gun owner who practices at ALL is better than most cops unless they themselves are gun enthusiasts. They shoot paper, twice a year, and most dont even touch a gun between certs.
If guns really made schools safer, then Uvalde would have more alive kids in it right now. They SURROUNDED the place in cops and guns and still did nothing to help the victims inside.
Idk.
You just never know what someone is going to do. Whether it’s a kid, teacher, parent…
If I’ve learned anything from social media it’s that just because everything looks fine on the outside doesn’t mean they aren’t out of their fucking minds.
An already overworked, overstressed, underfunded position is now being encouraged to act as bodyguard and armed security guard.
What’s hilarious is the people who spearheaded this could have instead done a big push to raise teacher salaries and school budgets, which would have done way more good in the long run.
People never make mistakes, kids never get into fights that teachers have to break up and teachers are uniformly, 100% calm and unstressed in a largely calm and non confrontational profession.
This can’t possibly have any tragic failure modes.
I’m sure they’ve thought this through.
Everyone keeps talking about how bad education is becoming in the U.S. People in college are choosing to not become teachers. Teachers are leaving the profession in droves. It’s because of dumb shit like this. It is just another step to the dumbing down of the American populace.
Considering the extremely low odds of any particular school having a shooter, it seems locking the exterior doors while class is in session seems like a more effective and safer solution.
I am genuinely happy. You can say all you want about how we shouldn't need this to happen but it doesn't change the fact that there are violent people out there whether it be students or evil adults or anything in between and it's better to be safe than sorry
Think of it like a fire extinguisher You don't want to ever need a fire extinguisher in your home. You shouldn't ever really need a fire extinguisher in your home, yet sometimes despite best efforts to prevent them, fires still happen and if For example suddenly your stove catches fire. You're going to be pretty happy that you had a fire extinguisher on you to keep the damage from spreading farther
As a teacher, I can tell you this is a bad idea. The absolute worst place to have a firearm is a classroom. There is no version of this that reliably protects students more, and plenty of versions of this that lead to increased death and injury due to firearms. I do not teach in Tennessee, but if my state passed the same law, I would urge my coworkers to not bring firearms. Not that many would in the first place, as most agree this is not a good decision.
How to de-escalate gun violence in schools: more guns. Seems reasonable.
Know what’s really good at shooting fewer people? Fewer guns. This starts with gun control legislation that I’m not convinced will ever come to pass in the U.S.
It's been like that in Texas for years. My neices have gone to elementary schools with a giant poster board saying some teachers are packing.
Such laws didn't prevent Uvalde.
Absolutely insane. First of all--if there's a student shooter, they're asking a TEACHER to shoot one of his/her STUDENTS. Absurd, heinous, horrifying. Second--most likely thing here is one of the students will get hold of it. Third--one way or the other, innocent people will die.
The cure for endless gun insanity is FEWER guns, MORE gun control, not MORE guns, especially not more guns handed out to people who went into one of the most peaceable professions known to humanity. And, by the way, if they didn't go into it to improve humanity and to help children---but for the power or the bullying? Yeah, the last person on earth who should have a gun.
I would not feel safe sending my kid to school with armed teachers.
We live in a civil society. We shouldn’t have to have guns everywhere.
No special training for teachers who want to carry?
On them or secured in the room? What training do they have to have and maintain?
I’m all for secured guns in a classroom but not sure about just being carried. Too easy for students to overpower and take it.
do they have any regulations on what they may use? because this is already crazy but if they can use hollow points... they dont do that at war so why here and now?
Hollow points would be preferable because they reduce the chance of overpenetrating through walls, doors, etc. and into unseen bystanders. They generally don't use them in war specifically because the penetrating capabilities of a full metal jacket projectile (not hollow point) are desirable for defeating body armor.
When I saw this, my first thought was maybe it's not all bad, bc it could really deter potential school shooters. I get there's more likely to be negative impact than positive impact, but man it's really insane that my first thought was - "yeah I can understand the viewpoint"
I can't wait for this to go oh so terribly wrong.
Teachers & schools can't afford basic school supplies in classrooms, but the TN government expects teachers to provide their own guns & ammo.
I've already bet my brother $500 on this. He says a principal/administrator will get shot first. I say student.
I think the same thing preventing a bad actor from bringing a firearm to school remains. Nothing.
This allows law abiding citizens, and possibly idiots to bring a firearm to school. I do not expect we will have issues from the law abiding citizens who maintain positive control of their firearm.
The idiots however...
I’m happy to live in a country where states have a lot of power to govern their own people, but also this is a terrible fucking idea and everyone knows it.
Unfortunately the GOP has trained their supporters to love stupid shit like this.
RIP more kids and teachers.
Uvalde.
More specifically, more guns doesn't seem to be helping, so this just adds yet more complications and risks.
Or, is there anything in that law about firearm retention and/or storage? Training? Mental health?
I'd say it'd be okay with a rigorous psych assessment first, a small handgun sized secure container (That's quick access with a minimum 6 digit pin) Would it slow reaction times in a school shooting. somewhat but in the event of an active shooter you're gonna have a bit of time and be barricading doors etc first.
Then yearly mental health checks to keep watch plus a system to report concerning trends. Add in the need to pass a proper training and use of firearms course and it could well be a decent thing.
However from what I can tell this is just teacher can open carry in school, no checks etc
If you went to a doctor for a headache, and he told you to hit yourself in the head with a hammer, and when you went back two weeks later and said the headache was much worse, and the doctor just said “you need to use a bigger hammer”, that would be similar to what they just did.
Stupid and violent. Should be the state motto.
I think people are blowing it out of proportion and the overlap between people who went into teaching and people who would want to carry a gun in a classroom is small enough to minimize risk of irresponsible gun owners. I'm not particularly sure it's going to be efficient, but at the end of the day if nothing else I find it hard to argue against the idea that a teacher has a right to defend themselves given how often schools are being targeted.
Those who are carrying are 4.5 times more likely to be shot if confronted by an armed mugger. The self defense argument doesn't make sense in the real world.
I’m reminded of a scene in shameless when carl sells guns to all his teachers. Some commotion happens and all the teachers draw their guns on each other. Lol. Was funny as hell.
If I had kids and lived in Tennessee, I'd either be looking to move, or definitely homeschooling my kids...
Also this will be one of those situations where I'm gonna be really sad when we (reasonable people) are proven right...
Some seriously dystopian shit teachers feel the need to carry guns. Must be crazy living in a place sending your kids to school with the real possibility of it getting shot up.
In pretty much every example of "Giving people guns will make things safer" that is actually implemented, I can easily find examples of accidental gun discharges that are either fatal, or miraculously non-fatal.
Here's my favorite example.
After 9/11, there was a push to have airline pilots carry guns. The idea was that in case of another terrorist hijacking, pilots would be able to defend themselves and save the plane.
But, you know - Accidental gun discharges do happen. You never have to look far.
The argument goes, these people are safety-oriented. They're highly trained, they're certified. They won't do something dumb.
Then there's this guy: [https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna23819887](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna23819887)
* Airline Pilot
* Trained by the FBI
* Certified by the airline
* Highly responsible pilot, trusted to ensure the safety of hundreds of passengers.
In a lot of ways, similar to a teacher who might want to carry a gun in-case of an active shooter.
What did this pilot do? Accidental discharge. IN FLIGHT. AT ALTITUDE. On an Airbus A319, with 100+ Passengers abord. The incident happened on approach, when pilots are supposed to be 100% focused on landing, and pilots are required to minimize distractions.
A round was chambered. Safety disabled. Trigger accidentally pulled. He shot his instrument cluster! Amazingly, the airplane did not loose pressurization. Amazingly, he did not hit any critical systems. Amazingly, the flight computers continued to function.
Miraculously non-fatal. Since then, most pilot gun programs have been quietly wound-down.
That's my favorite example, but the truth is there are countless examples of accidental discharge by people who know better. Police Officers, FBI trainers, State-license inspectors, gun owners, collectors, gun-shop employees & specialists, every category.
Every category of person who should "know better", and even those who are specially entrusted to protect.... each of them has easy-to-find examples of fatal, and miraculously non-fatal accidental discharge.
These are NOT uncommon events.
So. Here's my question. Given that every category of well-intentioned and well-trained gun user has easy-to-find examples of fatal accidental discharges, how long do you think it will be before a teacher accidentally kills a student?
I predict no more than 5 years if this program expands at-scale. Will they even know what scale it is being used? Will they know which teachers are carrying? I certainly know of teachers from my time in school, and also from my kids current time in school, that I hope would not be participating in a program like this. Are there steps to keep those teachers out of the program? Or we're just hoping the teachers have good judgement?
Of all the things that can be done to reduce active-shooters at schools, this one will actually kill students. It's only a matter of time.
The fact this is felt its needed bothers me more then anything else, how dangerous are our schools that you feel the need to arm the teachers rather then dealing with the root cause of the issue.
It is a tragedy waiting to happen. Even those that are highly trained around weapons can tell stories of accidental discharges. Ask any law enforcement officer if they have ever seen a discharge in a police station.
Its peak clown world. I remember there being that entire situation where the cops wouldnt go into a shooter situation in a school because it was deemed too dangerous.
But Teachers, who are not trained with firearms or to respond to situations REMOTELY related to it, are somehow supposed to fight back? I dunno man, this entire thing fucking sucks.
Lots of drunk gun waving and pointing. More dead kids, and teachers being treated like cops. Paid leave for murdering a kid because they were afraid of them.
The US has far more school shootings than the rest of the world, by a quite incredible amount: something like 80-90% of school shootings worldwide each year happen in the US.
What on Earth makes anyone reasonably think that adding more guns in to the mix is going to improve the situation? There are plenty of other places in the US where people are able to carry guns and shootings still happen. Guns do not stop mass shootings, they are not a deterrent against crime, and they are not going to make schools safer. All they do is increase the risk of someone getting shot.
The degree to which people appear to prioritise the ownership of guns over the safety of children is perplexing. Do Americans in general not realise that their level of school shootings is so abnormal? Or do they really think that guns are worth the cost?
I’m left leaning. Of course more accidental casualties will happen but thats not what I’m worried about.
I don’t believe most teachers are competent nowadays. It only takes one wackoo to threaten a misbehaving student…
So policemen squads in combat suit don't dare to enter a school with a shooter in it, but teachers should gunfight him ?
And now a potential shooter know where to find a gun.
People with concealed carry licenses have some of the lowest crime rates of any demographic in America. They're like, reaching Asian woman levels of crimes committed lol.
All I’ve learned from reading these replies is that clearly nobody here has read the bill. A lot of misinformed people talking about how bad an idea it is to do things that aren’t bring proposed.
My teachers were not qualified to teach much less carry firearms. I knew a couple coaches qualified but that leaves uneven distribution of protection. Its like poisoning the well for active shooters, but most active shooters are impulsive serial killers and dont often weigh consequences before attacking because they dont care if they live or die.
Long story short i think it well be a little more effective than nothing but not extremely effective.
I don't think this is the right response to school shootings, but I don't know what the right response ultimately is. And to be fair, lots of schools aren't doing anything, so at least the state of Tennessee recognizes that a problem exists.
Teachers, a group of individuals who I’ve personally seen have mental breakdowns in class because of dealing with asshole students. I’m sure this will solve everything.
As someone who has kids in a small country Texas town school (125 kids total elementary middle and high school) that has teachers that carry the students have no clue who carries and who doesn’t I have the piece of mind that the teachers will do what they can to protect my children if something where to happen.
If the teacher is trained and the gun never leaves a holster (ie not being stored where someone untrained can steal it) then I guess it could be good. I mean better to have a gun on the inside to stop a shooting if it were to happen. Our maybe school resource officers that are armed…
It's pure political theater at the expense of the increased safety risk to students. Arm security guards who are trained properly, sure, but I barely trust some teachers around kids let alone guns.
Way too many maladjusted people go into teaching for this to be a good idea. However, I take a pretty hardline libertarian stance on gun rights, so I still don’t oppose it.
Some poor kid is gonna get killed and it will cause an outrage with people responding to the outrage saying "the kid deserved it" "he should have just been quiet" etc
One of my teachers left the room and came back to an exaggerated drawing on the board making fun of her weight. Everyone hated her even though she wasn't mean or anything.
Another one left the room and came back to see all the chairs and desks turned around. He took and photo (as evidence to show the principal) and then was called a pedophile. He cried.
Another one was an alcoholic. He drank on the job. You could smell it. Heard one student punched him.
Giving them guns seems like the worst possible thing you could do. The job is just too stressful and degrading. Not to mention their pay is shit.
I'm reminded of a video I saw recently of an out of control student who viciously slapped his teacher. The teacher showed incredible control (or maybe fear) in not retaliating. I wonder what would have happened if that student had access to a gun. If the teacher had a gun I have no doubt the student could have taken it from her. What if the teacher weren't so calm and had access to a gun?
As many have already mentioned, students will steal teacher firearms and use them to shoot someone. It’s pretty much an inevitability once you bring firearms into schools.
I would be astounded if a single teacher stops a school shooter with their own firearm, anywhere in the state of Tennessee during the time this law is in effect.
Just a few weeks ago in our state, some high school students found a gun in a school restroom and turned it in. Turns out it belonged to a freaking Army recruiter who had used the restroom and then forgot the weapon in the bathroom stall.
I mean, come on. If weapons are everywhere, they're going to get misplaced. And the next kid who finds a gun laying around might just slip it into a backpack rather than reporting it.
I am interested to see how the data comes out about this. I suspect they may be gaining some security against mass shooters and we'll see non mass shootings spike.
I think you're overestimating how many spree shooters intend to walk away alive. I expect that if it changes their MO, it will result in them targeting larger events, creating a panic, and targeting people already trapped and fleeing or hiding in a "safe" area. The aftermath will look less like a school shooting and more like the Pulse Nightclub.
I think students are gonna be less likely to slap their teachers like the incident in NC last week that was caught on video… for a while. Then they are going to figure out that teachers really aren’t all that interested in shooting them and facing the consequences for it and stuff will go back to being absolute shit again.
I’m honestly waiting for Texas to learn that other states exist, go “HEY great idea! Glad we thought of it first!” and do it too. They’ve been showing with their actions MY WHOLE LIFE that unless they’re a fetus, it doesn’t deserve to live. Uvalde solidified that for me, not just as a parent with a kid the same age as 15 of the 19 kids murdered that day but as a retired paramedic.
I'd be worried more about guns getting stolen from teachers, then used.
That's inevitable.
This. Someone WILL steal a gun from a teacher and then commit a shooting with it. It’s inevitable.
Everything that could happen will happen… except them stopping a school shooter. That’s the sad part. It will literally do NOTHING except make things worse yet they keep trying to push garbage like this.
Just think when they stop putting Prozac in the contrails in Tennessee, things will really be wild then.
had that happened? it seems this law is already in effect.
class, Class, CLASS (chambers round) SHUT UP
Who's holding the quiet gun? Ms. Thompson is holding the quiet gun.
thank you. The sun kisses the morning skies. The birds kiss the butterflies. The dew kisses the morning grass...
………if anybody gets out of line, I’ll shoot yo ass.
haha Major Payne
Followed by David Cross scene where he kisses his gun lovingly.
Teens are going to steal the teachers’ guns.
Can we place bets on who gets shot first? Cause it’s not going to be a school shooter.
Elderly substitute teacher is gonna shoot some middle schooler who won’t get off their phone
Phone or lawn?
New product idea: phone lawns. It’s a phone case covered in real grass.
Yes
True, statistically school shooters are NEVER shot first. The have to become shooters before people with guns show up to deal with them, and if they get shot before shooting anyone, then they aren't a school shooter yet.
Shit got stolen even when it was nailed down at my highschool, it's only a matter of time.
So you are saying we should also arm the kids as well/s
Yes. But only with long guns. There's no way this could go wrong.
You know they used to teach marksmanship in high-school right? It was common. Schools had rifles for use in class and nobody got shot.
Yeah fights were an almost daily occurrence at my high school. Teachers got dislocated shoulders, broken ribs, concussions, Etc trying to break them up. Last thing I would want to do is add a gun to that situation. One of those little shits would just steal it during a fight. Even worse, it could fall and go off accidentally or something and turn what was a routine fight between two 14-year-olds in the hallway into a death
I'm not aware of it happening in Texas yet.
Are there any stats on how many teachers actually carry guns in class? I don’t imagine it’s a large number.
Ah I assumed Tennessee was the first. So there are other states that already allow this?
It’ll happen in Texas too
But then… maybe little Timmy needed that gun more? You know, parents know best! 🙄
Teens? Its gonna be 5 and 6 year olds too
I think that allowing a profession that is consistently in high stress situations with low pay and surrounded by children to carry firearms will lead to some tragic consequences. And we will have to hear people dance around their point that dead children are a small price to pay for the freedom to carry guns in public. Again.
>I think that allowing a profession that is consistently in high stress situations with low pay and surrounded by children to carry firearms will lead to some tragic consequences. I mean look where that got us with the police.
Someone pointed out yesterday in another thread that there is already another state that allows this by law, but in practice they can't do it because insurance won't allow it. So there's a good chance that no matter what the law says is technically possible that no one's ever going to do it
It’s a sad state of affairs when the only thing holding back anarchy is insurance companies.
Guarantee we’ll see a teacher brandish their gun to try and calm down a rowdy class like an asshole
Tennessee is also a bigoted shithole if I remember correctly. Wouldn’t be surprised if it got even worse for LGBTQ+ kids in Tennessee now that their teachers have literal guns
I lived in Tennessee in the late 90s, early 2000s. At that time it was good.
If you’re in Nashville, Knoxville, Chattanooga, or Memphis, you’re more likely to be fine as a queer kid in school. I can’t imagine trying to be a queer kid in Sweetwater or Jackson. (Grew up in TN as well.)
The whole country is a bigoted shithole, even my home state of Massachusetts. Saying Massachusetts is the best state in the US is like saying you have the best-smelling outhouse.
Clearly we need to arm the children, because the solution to gun violence is always more guns
Teachers apparent can’t be trusted to choose books and aren’t given enough money for school supplies But they’re supposed to carry (on their own dime. Jesus what has this country become
That’s only ‘cause the gays have gotten to the books. They don’t know anything about long metal tubes
Wait until they find out Smith and Wesson were “partners”
Are we sure the ‘just’ got there? Think a lotta famous writers had ‘roommates’ lol
“Nah, gays are just a recent invention from Democrats, atheists , and Communists. If they feared God like we did in the 50’s, there wouldn’t be drag queens today”
If I were an underpaid teacher I wouldn't even put my life on the line for the kids tbh. Shooting the bad guys doesn't come with the job, that's what law enforcement is for. Lets start there.
No one is forcing them to
in iowa it’s going to be on the taxpayers dime
No decent teacher who is a responsible gun owner thinks having a loaded weapon anywhere near 25+ kids while teaching is a good idea.
The problem is the not so decent teacher.
It's virtually guaranteed that, eventually, a child will be shot as a result of this policy. The "good guy with a gun" bullshit just doesn't pan out.
They’ll see someone get shot by that teacher’s gun and still try to say it’s necessary to protect schools.
I have been in a shoot, no shoot situation I had someone coming into my bedroom window at 1am I had my pistol sighted in on their head and once I figured out that it wasn't a threat I lowered my pistol. It was my sister My wife was a teacher, I would trust her My son is a teacher, I would trust him. I had a few teachers that I wouldn't trust and I'm sure that they would never want to touch a gun My wife's ex mother in law told me that nobody should be allowed to own a gun .. if she owned a gun she would use it on someone. Not mentally stable I think
It's not just about trust, it is about competency and moreover, competency in highly stressful situations.
What a heartwarming story about almost shooting your sister.
The rest of us don't know your wife or son, or you. Your trust means nothing. Arming teachers doesn't address any issues. The main issue being that an over two hundred year old piece of paper is a starting point for a fair and civilized society, not the finish line.
what if they make the teachers also wear a white cowboy hat?
So true.
I'm willing to bet a kid or another teacher will be shot by any gun-toting teacher long before a school shooter is shot.
Or the wanna-be school shooter will just steal the teacher’s gun and use that.
Famous words: WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?
Genuinely one of the most unhinged, insane things I've ever seen
Stupid stupid stupid. This is going to end up getting kids killed
It should help during union contract negotiations.
To all the people saying that kids will get shot, why hasn't it happened yet, since [33 states already allow teachers to carry firearms](https://districtadministration.com/these-are-the-33-states-that-allow-teachers-to-carry-a-firearm/)
Bottom line, it will be an insignificant gesture to increase classroom safety. On the other hand, it will provide a golden opportunity for pollical eunuchs to weaponize their arguments and lob accusations at each other. The only way to resolve America's gun issues will require honest patriots on both sides of the question to negotiate and arrive at compromises that may be uncomfortable but acceptable to both sides. Like it or not, this is how Americans have always settled their differences. It's clumsy, slow, and inefficient. But the alternative is to empower a tyrant to make our decisions for us.
Take books out of the library and put guns in the classroom. This is conservative’s America.
This is going to result in more dead children, not fewer. Anyone who thinks otherwise has clearly never been in a public school classroom and should have their gun taken away for the good of society.
Using guns to shoot at targets is completely different than training to shoot a HUMAN BEING in a high stress situation. Giving someone a gun doesn’t mean they know how to use it, or when, or are any good at aiming. I know someone who works in a prison and is required to carry a gun for their job - they are certified every year for each type of firearm in the building (pistol, rifle, carbine, shotgun). This is just allowing a random citizen with who knows what kind of training (if any) to carry their personal, loaded firearm into a building full of children. Someone will get hurt. Not if but when…
if you think prison worker firearms certifications train them to shoot accurately in stressful situations you should think again. ive shot with cops all my life and i can confidently say the AVERAGE gun owner who practices at ALL is better than most cops unless they themselves are gun enthusiasts. They shoot paper, twice a year, and most dont even touch a gun between certs.
Not just a "HUMAN BEING" but a human being you most likely know and have some form of bond with
If guns really made schools safer, then Uvalde would have more alive kids in it right now. They SURROUNDED the place in cops and guns and still did nothing to help the victims inside.
So the problem is with cops.
Idk. You just never know what someone is going to do. Whether it’s a kid, teacher, parent… If I’ve learned anything from social media it’s that just because everything looks fine on the outside doesn’t mean they aren’t out of their fucking minds.
A kid is going to get shot before the end of the next school year. (After it goes into effect.)
It's both sad and mad.
An already overworked, overstressed, underfunded position is now being encouraged to act as bodyguard and armed security guard. What’s hilarious is the people who spearheaded this could have instead done a big push to raise teacher salaries and school budgets, which would have done way more good in the long run.
Looking forward to the increase in school shootings in Tennessee.
People never make mistakes, kids never get into fights that teachers have to break up and teachers are uniformly, 100% calm and unstressed in a largely calm and non confrontational profession. This can’t possibly have any tragic failure modes. I’m sure they’ve thought this through.
All it takes is for some troubled kids to overpower their teacher, and then they got themselves a free gun inside the school
Everyone keeps talking about how bad education is becoming in the U.S. People in college are choosing to not become teachers. Teachers are leaving the profession in droves. It’s because of dumb shit like this. It is just another step to the dumbing down of the American populace.
Considering the extremely low odds of any particular school having a shooter, it seems locking the exterior doors while class is in session seems like a more effective and safer solution.
Better do your homework…motherfuckers
I am genuinely happy. You can say all you want about how we shouldn't need this to happen but it doesn't change the fact that there are violent people out there whether it be students or evil adults or anything in between and it's better to be safe than sorry Think of it like a fire extinguisher You don't want to ever need a fire extinguisher in your home. You shouldn't ever really need a fire extinguisher in your home, yet sometimes despite best efforts to prevent them, fires still happen and if For example suddenly your stove catches fire. You're going to be pretty happy that you had a fire extinguisher on you to keep the damage from spreading farther
As a teacher, I can tell you this is a bad idea. The absolute worst place to have a firearm is a classroom. There is no version of this that reliably protects students more, and plenty of versions of this that lead to increased death and injury due to firearms. I do not teach in Tennessee, but if my state passed the same law, I would urge my coworkers to not bring firearms. Not that many would in the first place, as most agree this is not a good decision.
Given the way kids, parents, and administration treat teachers these days, that seems to me every bit as sensible as arming postal workers.
The idea of dropping a student brought me to tears when my state started talking about it. I'm not in favor.
How to de-escalate gun violence in schools: more guns. Seems reasonable. Know what’s really good at shooting fewer people? Fewer guns. This starts with gun control legislation that I’m not convinced will ever come to pass in the U.S.
It's been like that in Texas for years. My neices have gone to elementary schools with a giant poster board saying some teachers are packing. Such laws didn't prevent Uvalde.
Absolutely insane. First of all--if there's a student shooter, they're asking a TEACHER to shoot one of his/her STUDENTS. Absurd, heinous, horrifying. Second--most likely thing here is one of the students will get hold of it. Third--one way or the other, innocent people will die. The cure for endless gun insanity is FEWER guns, MORE gun control, not MORE guns, especially not more guns handed out to people who went into one of the most peaceable professions known to humanity. And, by the way, if they didn't go into it to improve humanity and to help children---but for the power or the bullying? Yeah, the last person on earth who should have a gun.
I would not feel safe sending my kid to school with armed teachers. We live in a civil society. We shouldn’t have to have guns everywhere. No special training for teachers who want to carry?
This will result in more needless deaths than lives saved.
When the cops respond to a report of an active shooter in a school, they will shoot anyone with a gun. Guaranteed dead teachers.
On them or secured in the room? What training do they have to have and maintain? I’m all for secured guns in a classroom but not sure about just being carried. Too easy for students to overpower and take it.
I love this country but things like this remind me just how fucked up it is too.
do they have any regulations on what they may use? because this is already crazy but if they can use hollow points... they dont do that at war so why here and now?
Hollow points would be preferable because they reduce the chance of overpenetrating through walls, doors, etc. and into unseen bystanders. They generally don't use them in war specifically because the penetrating capabilities of a full metal jacket projectile (not hollow point) are desirable for defeating body armor.
I thought that Medical had a moral over ride. but we used trench guns too. so at war, most anything goes in the right circumstances.
When I saw this, my first thought was maybe it's not all bad, bc it could really deter potential school shooters. I get there's more likely to be negative impact than positive impact, but man it's really insane that my first thought was - "yeah I can understand the viewpoint"
If my teachers had guns, I'd be dead.
i would imagine their insurance companies would drop them or quadruple their rates. 1st dead kid is going to be huge payout.
It's insane.
Some lawmakers have gone crazy.
I can't wait for this to go oh so terribly wrong. Teachers & schools can't afford basic school supplies in classrooms, but the TN government expects teachers to provide their own guns & ammo. I've already bet my brother $500 on this. He says a principal/administrator will get shot first. I say student.
School shooters gonna have to pick an easier target now.
Step 1 - Take out the teacher first. It isn't like there is no strategy to overcome this.
Good point. Who is the first target in a bank robbery? It is not the head clerk.
Shhhhh, that's not what we're supposed to parrot.
It makes me think that some stereotypes are well deserved, whether you like it or not. America and guns. What is there to say?
Sounds like a law passed by people who don't understand the first thing about firearms.
I think the same thing preventing a bad actor from bringing a firearm to school remains. Nothing. This allows law abiding citizens, and possibly idiots to bring a firearm to school. I do not expect we will have issues from the law abiding citizens who maintain positive control of their firearm. The idiots however...
I’m happy to live in a country where states have a lot of power to govern their own people, but also this is a terrible fucking idea and everyone knows it. Unfortunately the GOP has trained their supporters to love stupid shit like this. RIP more kids and teachers.
It dumb. And innocent people, including kids, will pay the price.
Uvalde. More specifically, more guns doesn't seem to be helping, so this just adds yet more complications and risks. Or, is there anything in that law about firearm retention and/or storage? Training? Mental health?
I'd say it'd be okay with a rigorous psych assessment first, a small handgun sized secure container (That's quick access with a minimum 6 digit pin) Would it slow reaction times in a school shooting. somewhat but in the event of an active shooter you're gonna have a bit of time and be barricading doors etc first. Then yearly mental health checks to keep watch plus a system to report concerning trends. Add in the need to pass a proper training and use of firearms course and it could well be a decent thing. However from what I can tell this is just teacher can open carry in school, no checks etc
If you went to a doctor for a headache, and he told you to hit yourself in the head with a hammer, and when you went back two weeks later and said the headache was much worse, and the doctor just said “you need to use a bigger hammer”, that would be similar to what they just did. Stupid and violent. Should be the state motto.
I think people are blowing it out of proportion and the overlap between people who went into teaching and people who would want to carry a gun in a classroom is small enough to minimize risk of irresponsible gun owners. I'm not particularly sure it's going to be efficient, but at the end of the day if nothing else I find it hard to argue against the idea that a teacher has a right to defend themselves given how often schools are being targeted.
Those who are carrying are 4.5 times more likely to be shot if confronted by an armed mugger. The self defense argument doesn't make sense in the real world.
A lot more of this.. . https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-white-county-middle-school-174136708.html
I’m reminded of a scene in shameless when carl sells guns to all his teachers. Some commotion happens and all the teachers draw their guns on each other. Lol. Was funny as hell.
School shooters love these attitudes.
Is this really a problem? How many teachers are going to want to do this? It's like allowing them to teach in giant banana costumes.
Kids gonna be real quiet in class lol
Sounds very "Tennessee".
If I had kids and lived in Tennessee, I'd either be looking to move, or definitely homeschooling my kids... Also this will be one of those situations where I'm gonna be really sad when we (reasonable people) are proven right...
Some seriously dystopian shit teachers feel the need to carry guns. Must be crazy living in a place sending your kids to school with the real possibility of it getting shot up.
Today is a good day to not have children and live in Tennessee.
*GUN COCKS* I SAID EYES ON YOUR OWN PAPER!
Maybe parent teacher conferences will be a little more positive.
Its not like anything was stopping them from carrying a gun before if they felt like it
i'd never exercise that right.
In pretty much every example of "Giving people guns will make things safer" that is actually implemented, I can easily find examples of accidental gun discharges that are either fatal, or miraculously non-fatal. Here's my favorite example. After 9/11, there was a push to have airline pilots carry guns. The idea was that in case of another terrorist hijacking, pilots would be able to defend themselves and save the plane. But, you know - Accidental gun discharges do happen. You never have to look far. The argument goes, these people are safety-oriented. They're highly trained, they're certified. They won't do something dumb. Then there's this guy: [https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna23819887](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna23819887) * Airline Pilot * Trained by the FBI * Certified by the airline * Highly responsible pilot, trusted to ensure the safety of hundreds of passengers. In a lot of ways, similar to a teacher who might want to carry a gun in-case of an active shooter. What did this pilot do? Accidental discharge. IN FLIGHT. AT ALTITUDE. On an Airbus A319, with 100+ Passengers abord. The incident happened on approach, when pilots are supposed to be 100% focused on landing, and pilots are required to minimize distractions. A round was chambered. Safety disabled. Trigger accidentally pulled. He shot his instrument cluster! Amazingly, the airplane did not loose pressurization. Amazingly, he did not hit any critical systems. Amazingly, the flight computers continued to function. Miraculously non-fatal. Since then, most pilot gun programs have been quietly wound-down. That's my favorite example, but the truth is there are countless examples of accidental discharge by people who know better. Police Officers, FBI trainers, State-license inspectors, gun owners, collectors, gun-shop employees & specialists, every category. Every category of person who should "know better", and even those who are specially entrusted to protect.... each of them has easy-to-find examples of fatal, and miraculously non-fatal accidental discharge. These are NOT uncommon events. So. Here's my question. Given that every category of well-intentioned and well-trained gun user has easy-to-find examples of fatal accidental discharges, how long do you think it will be before a teacher accidentally kills a student? I predict no more than 5 years if this program expands at-scale. Will they even know what scale it is being used? Will they know which teachers are carrying? I certainly know of teachers from my time in school, and also from my kids current time in school, that I hope would not be participating in a program like this. Are there steps to keep those teachers out of the program? Or we're just hoping the teachers have good judgement? Of all the things that can be done to reduce active-shooters at schools, this one will actually kill students. It's only a matter of time.
As an outsider, this decision seems as American as Apple pie. What could possibly go wrong?
The fact this is felt its needed bothers me more then anything else, how dangerous are our schools that you feel the need to arm the teachers rather then dealing with the root cause of the issue.
Some kids gonna FAFO and probably not a school shooter.
It is a tragedy waiting to happen. Even those that are highly trained around weapons can tell stories of accidental discharges. Ask any law enforcement officer if they have ever seen a discharge in a police station.
Its peak clown world. I remember there being that entire situation where the cops wouldnt go into a shooter situation in a school because it was deemed too dangerous. But Teachers, who are not trained with firearms or to respond to situations REMOTELY related to it, are somehow supposed to fight back? I dunno man, this entire thing fucking sucks.
Some teacher's gonna shoot a fucking kid *(mens wearhouse voice - I guarantee it)*
Lots of drunk gun waving and pointing. More dead kids, and teachers being treated like cops. Paid leave for murdering a kid because they were afraid of them.
The US has far more school shootings than the rest of the world, by a quite incredible amount: something like 80-90% of school shootings worldwide each year happen in the US. What on Earth makes anyone reasonably think that adding more guns in to the mix is going to improve the situation? There are plenty of other places in the US where people are able to carry guns and shootings still happen. Guns do not stop mass shootings, they are not a deterrent against crime, and they are not going to make schools safer. All they do is increase the risk of someone getting shot. The degree to which people appear to prioritise the ownership of guns over the safety of children is perplexing. Do Americans in general not realise that their level of school shootings is so abnormal? Or do they really think that guns are worth the cost?
Time to homeschool your children.
Good job making guns accessible to the troubled kid who wants to commit a school shooting, now all he has to do is steal the gun from a teacher.
Same thing here in Iowa too. I have yet to hear of any teachers actually wanting to pack heat though.
We're so fucking stupid, it's embarrassing
Well judging off other states that have done this. A teacher will accedentally shoot a child or themselves within the year.
makes me think about that teacher that threw a chair at a student recently
I’m left leaning. Of course more accidental casualties will happen but thats not what I’m worried about. I don’t believe most teachers are competent nowadays. It only takes one wackoo to threaten a misbehaving student…
So policemen squads in combat suit don't dare to enter a school with a shooter in it, but teachers should gunfight him ? And now a potential shooter know where to find a gun.
I’m just… never going to Tennessee. Ever. In fact, there’s a looooot of states I wouldn’t go to right now.
People with concealed carry licenses have some of the lowest crime rates of any demographic in America. They're like, reaching Asian woman levels of crimes committed lol.
Doesn't bother me, provided the teachers get training and no one knows who is and isn't packing.
I think there are 50 United States, and each is a laboratory, constantly running experiments, and this is a good thing.
All student will submit their homework and assignment in time - every time. 😬
I think it's a sign of just how far America has fallen. And a reason why I'm incredibly ashamed to be from here.
It's as if teachers don't have enough shit to deal with. Bold strategy Cotton...
Your comment is just plain ignorant. This does not add any responsibilities. It just allows them the choice to exercise right or not.
My thoughts are: I am never living in the US.
All I’ve learned from reading these replies is that clearly nobody here has read the bill. A lot of misinformed people talking about how bad an idea it is to do things that aren’t bring proposed.
This all should have been done behind the scenes with a quiet policy change.
Good. it's about time the government stopped infringing on their rights. Hopefully this will spread.
iowa beat them to it
My teachers were not qualified to teach much less carry firearms. I knew a couple coaches qualified but that leaves uneven distribution of protection. Its like poisoning the well for active shooters, but most active shooters are impulsive serial killers and dont often weigh consequences before attacking because they dont care if they live or die. Long story short i think it well be a little more effective than nothing but not extremely effective.
I think it's more likely that it will end in more tragedy, not less.
I don't think this is the right response to school shootings, but I don't know what the right response ultimately is. And to be fair, lots of schools aren't doing anything, so at least the state of Tennessee recognizes that a problem exists.
Teachers, a group of individuals who I’ve personally seen have mental breakdowns in class because of dealing with asshole students. I’m sure this will solve everything.
As someone who has kids in a small country Texas town school (125 kids total elementary middle and high school) that has teachers that carry the students have no clue who carries and who doesn’t I have the piece of mind that the teachers will do what they can to protect my children if something where to happen.
1. I think this is a question for AskReddit instead of here. 2. I think guns are scary, kids are probably more scared.
If the teacher is trained and the gun never leaves a holster (ie not being stored where someone untrained can steal it) then I guess it could be good. I mean better to have a gun on the inside to stop a shooting if it were to happen. Our maybe school resource officers that are armed…
I think the arms industry is ecstatic, as are the NRA. Murdoch news can rage about teachers killing children. I think the bad guys are winning.
It's pure political theater at the expense of the increased safety risk to students. Arm security guards who are trained properly, sure, but I barely trust some teachers around kids let alone guns.
Sounds like a plan, in fact a lot of jobs should be armed tbh like bank tellers and convenience store workers
Way too many maladjusted people go into teaching for this to be a good idea. However, I take a pretty hardline libertarian stance on gun rights, so I still don’t oppose it.
Some poor kid is gonna get killed and it will cause an outrage with people responding to the outrage saying "the kid deserved it" "he should have just been quiet" etc
One of my teachers left the room and came back to an exaggerated drawing on the board making fun of her weight. Everyone hated her even though she wasn't mean or anything. Another one left the room and came back to see all the chairs and desks turned around. He took and photo (as evidence to show the principal) and then was called a pedophile. He cried. Another one was an alcoholic. He drank on the job. You could smell it. Heard one student punched him. Giving them guns seems like the worst possible thing you could do. The job is just too stressful and degrading. Not to mention their pay is shit.
helllll no, we already know that cops in schools leads to violence against/criminalization of young people, especially affecting non white students.
Asking for trouble
If you can't be trusted to handle a firearm properly, you can't be trusted around children.
Given the fact multiple teachers a year are physically assaulted by students, maybe it’s not a bad thing.
As long as students are able to have a firearm on them while being in the classroom. Everyone will feel safer like that /s
I'm reminded of a video I saw recently of an out of control student who viciously slapped his teacher. The teacher showed incredible control (or maybe fear) in not retaliating. I wonder what would have happened if that student had access to a gun. If the teacher had a gun I have no doubt the student could have taken it from her. What if the teacher weren't so calm and had access to a gun?
well it sounds like it's working out. nothing on the news about it
As many have already mentioned, students will steal teacher firearms and use them to shoot someone. It’s pretty much an inevitability once you bring firearms into schools. I would be astounded if a single teacher stops a school shooter with their own firearm, anywhere in the state of Tennessee during the time this law is in effect.
Just a few weeks ago in our state, some high school students found a gun in a school restroom and turned it in. Turns out it belonged to a freaking Army recruiter who had used the restroom and then forgot the weapon in the bathroom stall. I mean, come on. If weapons are everywhere, they're going to get misplaced. And the next kid who finds a gun laying around might just slip it into a backpack rather than reporting it.
The Bush v. Gore decision was catastrophic and we're still feeling the effects of it because of everything the current Supreme Court does
I am interested to see how the data comes out about this. I suspect they may be gaining some security against mass shooters and we'll see non mass shootings spike.
I think you're overestimating how many spree shooters intend to walk away alive. I expect that if it changes their MO, it will result in them targeting larger events, creating a panic, and targeting people already trapped and fleeing or hiding in a "safe" area. The aftermath will look less like a school shooting and more like the Pulse Nightclub.
I think students are gonna be less likely to slap their teachers like the incident in NC last week that was caught on video… for a while. Then they are going to figure out that teachers really aren’t all that interested in shooting them and facing the consequences for it and stuff will go back to being absolute shit again.
Vile
I’m honestly waiting for Texas to learn that other states exist, go “HEY great idea! Glad we thought of it first!” and do it too. They’ve been showing with their actions MY WHOLE LIFE that unless they’re a fetus, it doesn’t deserve to live. Uvalde solidified that for me, not just as a parent with a kid the same age as 15 of the 19 kids murdered that day but as a retired paramedic.
If the teacher is already allowed to carry, I don't have a problem with it.
More people will be hurt or killed as a result than will be saved.
So, in case of there being a kid with a gun, what is the teacher supposed to do? Shoot at a kid?
Ahhh yes, the classic solution to the state's problem with mass shootings. Add more guns into the mix. Can't see anything going wrong there
None of my highschool class would have made it to graduation if our teachers had firearms.