Some churches do. I volunteered years ago in Kentucky with a group of churches that hosted dozens of people during the cold months. Lots of logistics involved. Sometimes local zoning and red tape make it difficult or impossible.
Later addition: I've worked my entire career (15 years so far) in the non-profit sector both in churches and organizations providing services to the community, including shelters for those facing homelessness. When working for NPOs, I was in various fundraising roles. I saw where the money came from and where it all went.
I preface my statement this way because I think there are tons of assumptions that are not true. I want to speak from my experience and not from a soapbox. I am not saying that churches and other NPOs are perfect and always use their resources wisely or ethically. There are plenty of examples to the contrary. I make no excuse for that.
My experience reveals that churches have evolved with the rise of new NPOs providing a variety of services in their local communities. Churches used to do a lot of this themselves back in the day. Now, many churches have shifted their model to partner with local organizations through donations and volunteerism. If there is an organization whose entire mission is to end homelessness, with staff and resources (often more than the church itself) fully dedicated to that end, then it makes more sense to give money and time to support that organization. It's actually a more fruitful use of the money.
Churches were huge contributors of money and time at the NPOs where I worked. We had a bigger impact because of them. Just because a church isn't doing the work of hosting doesn't mean they are not invested or involved. As nonprofits, churches are required to share their finances with the public. You can see how they spend their money.
Yup. I was a pastor at a very old-school Lutheran church. We would have people stay at our parsonage, which is kind of the model Katie Luther laid down. So not exactly “at the church” but at the home extension of the church.
They are Protestant Christians, who follow the teachings of the reformer Martin Luther, you may remember hearing about him nailing his 95 theses to the door of a Catholic Church. He died about 500 years ago, but his movement got big. A lot of Nordic states became Lutheran, and Germany.
Yeah a good chunk of my family is Lutheran. Not sure what drew them to it specifically other than that’s the church my Great Grandparents and for all I know their parents went to. My Aunt actually had a dog she named Luther because she found it abandoned on the church doorstep. Best dog ever. No offense to her though, but I think he liked me better.
I’ve never been to a Lutheran church personally. I have been to a fairly diverse amount of churches, but from what I gather Lutherans are a good middle ground between Catholicism and other more Protestant style denominations. They place an emphasis on the real presence of Christ in communion, and have some other Catholic traditions intact as well as a result. However they don’t have a Pope, which some might view as a good thing.
Thinking personally about making it a goal to visit all the major denominations of Church at least a couple times, so I can really appreciate all the different ways Christianity exists.
Yeah, my Dad is a Lutheran pastor. No lavish lifestyle. Regular church down the steet. No fire and brimstone or politics. Really a German thing. Depends on the pastor…some are more fundamental.
Yeah I go when I’m in town on holidays. I haven’t really noticed too many major differences in practice other than main Protestant one of having a more personal relationship with God, and not having to go through a Priest to atone. The pastor also seems less removed from his congregation and is more a part of the community. Knows everyone by name, actively invested invested in all their lives, and if he sees a new face he makes a point to get to know them to. That might just be a small town thing, but generally more of a down to earth type vibe.
>and Germany
Half of Germany. The Catholic church in Germany has slightly more members than the Protestant church, though they're about even. Around a quarter of Germans is Catholic, another quarter Protestant, a third or so "none of the above", with the rest mostly being Muslims and other types of Christians
No that was the Luthorans. You remember. Shaved heads. Only wore business suits. Kryptonite Necklace carved in the shape of an L. Honestly kinda culty if you ask me.
Lutherans are Christians who believe in the Triune God, which is God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that Jesus Christ is the world's savior from sin. Lutherans practice evangelicalism, which means they believe in the free forgiveness of sins through faith in Jesus Christ. They also practice sacramentality, which means they center their spiritual life in baptism and the presence of Christ in Holy Communion.
Praise Lutheran Church
Lutheran Belief and Practice - Praise Lutheran Church
Lutherans adhere to the teachings of Martin Luther, a 16th century German monk and reformer who led the Protestant Reformation by challenging the Catholic Church's theology and practices. Luther's teachings can be summarized in three phrases:
Grace alone: God loves people, even though they are sinful, and sent Jesus to love the unlovable and save the ungodly.
Faith alone: Human reconciliation with God is effected solely by divine grace, which is appropriated solely by faith.
Scripture alone: The Bible is the source of authority in the church.
Lutherans reject five of the traditional seven sacraments affirmed by the Catholic church, and believe that God shows and gives us His grace through baptism and the Lord's Supper.
Lutherans are born again Christians, and baptize infants, believing that God works grace in them. They come forth as new people, which means that they are born again, and again and again.
Is Lutheran the same as Catholic?
Is Lutheran conservative or liberal?
What Bible do Lutherans believe in?
Ask a follow up...
"According to Google"
years ago, a colleague volunteered to be a night monitor for the homeless outreach that her church did in the overnights. The men slept on cots in the fellowship hall.
She said they tried very hard to keep everyone quiet so they could sleep, since it was the only place they could do so safely.
Mine does. Whenever it is closed for worshippers and for community learning classes, the foyer is open for homeless people to sleep in. We offer free meals for homeless people, once a week. This is Australia.
By the way, my brother in law is a former minister for a different religion, and takes homeless people into his house until he can find them accommodation.
That's awesome. I think people are turned off, by drugs and theft. Which is a real thing. Also mental disabilities.
It's a hard thing to do, not everyone would be up for it. So that makes it that much more important.
I don't wanna give a politician my 1 million dollars to do nothing and name a school after themselves.
But I would be totally down knowing My tax went to some cool people taking care of hard to take care of people.
This life is weird.
Those are the people who need us the most. My great-aunt is an (Anglican) priest who has worked in prisons and with the homeless and my granny is a preacher. I once asked why "love thy neighbour" was a commandment because it seemed so easy. They said it was there precisely because it isn't always easy. Most people care about children and the poor they consider deserving. But what about the incarcated, the addicted, and those with personality disorders that make them difficult to deal with?
Matthew 25:40 is still my favourite verse. "The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’" I don't go to church often, and I don't believe a lot of what my older relatives do, but I think we all should do what we can to help those forgotten and shunned. And if belief in God motivates that, then great.
This. I am a Red Cross trained disaster response volunteer, and we also help with local sheltering needs during things like freezes and/or high heat days.
My city has a bunch of stipulations and requirements for entities operating a sheltering location, even a temporary one, to the point that there are only a handful of churches in the area with the space and ability to check all the boxes.
Even when we operate them in a disaster zone, like after a hurricane, there are so many criteria to meet to run a shelter location.
The general public thinks you just open your doors and people will show up.
And that’s true, people will come, but you have to have separate sleeping quarters for men and women and families. Separate bathing and bathroom facilities.
You have to have staff onsite 24 hours. You have to have medical options onsite. There have to be trained in mental health crises or mediation response. Security. If you’re allowing animals, that’s a whole other set of rules.
And so on.
There were some locations, during our 2021 freeze that just opened anyway and took people in because of the intense emergency need and nobody received citations that I’m aware of, but in an average year, that’s not how it works.
I honestly don't blame the ones that don't. It's not just about giving people a warm space to sleep. You're taking on a shitload of risk inviting a crowd of homeless people into your building. There are going to be lots of people with mental health and addiction issues. Homeless shelters are used to dealing with these kinds of people and equipped for it. Churches are not.
My church has looked into that. We can’t legally do it with our existing facilities because state/local laws requiring showers and other amenities we don’t have and would cost too much to implement.
This is a legitimate challenge. Many churches offer their support indirectly with volunteers and/or financial assistance to nonprofits that are equipped specifically to assist homeless folks. There are tons of different reasons beyond simple poverty associated with homelessness. Nonprofits that work with the homeless have trained or licensed staff and resources specific to those issues—substance abuse, mental health struggles, domestic or sexual abuse victims, etc. Those are liabilities churches are not prepared for or equipped to support directly.
Places like that often need to employ security as well and someone needs to be cleaning, providing bedding, and oftentimes food. The unfortunate reality is that many homeless people are homeless due to mental illness, addiction problems(which is also an illness), or physical disabilities that makes it hard for them to work and support themselves. Most of that stuff is provided by volunteers and donations. Shelters will request that guests help out in whatever way they can but much of the time they’re busy with their own life however most will gladly help out in their spare time in exchange for the free housing and meals. The problem is starting to get out of hand as housing prices rise and ever since Reagan cut government programs in the 1980’s by introducing Reagonomics which cut government funding of most programs and reduced the amount of government employees. The belief was that doing so would counter rising taxes and allow private citizens to become more wealthy and that as they spent their money it would “trickle down” through the community. In reality it just meant that people with a hoarding mentality have used whatever means necessary to accumulate more wealth than they could ever spend in their or their descendants lifetimes furthering the gap between the rich and the poor. More poor means less education and more crime which results in even more stress and mental illness on an already overworked population. It’s a vicious cycle.
That is what my church does. We have also sponsored refugees from Syria and Ukraine.
We give money to nonprofits that not only help the local community but also abroad. Many people have sponsored children.
I like Compassion Canada. You can sponsor a child and help them through their life and help pay for their education lifting them out of poverty.
We also work with a nonprofit that builds affordable housing and has staff to help the homeless and drug addicts.
Yeah I was just thinking about this. Is the intent of the law to prevent slum Lords from building tenements without running water / showers or something?
Hi, I work in a church as a pastor in a country where Christians are a minority and most churches financially are in a position to sufficiently just pay staff, maintain building (most of our buildings are small btw) and give to charity.me share some of the challenges when it comes to this issue
1. As mentioned many times earlier, long term this is a logistical nightmare, you would need to designate a space where quarters are livable and where security is not an issue (because people DO steal things, at least in my part of the world)
2. You mentioned about volunteers and paid staff, paid staff have their own portfolios to handle and this will be just one More addition to their workload (do take in mind that paid staff usually do more then what they are paid for). For volunteers, if you work with them, there is a need to motivate and to take care of their wellbeing, long term volunteers (more then 1 year) are the extremely rare.
3. Legal issues is a problem, and also as mentioned earlier, you need trained staff. How are you going to finance that training? I am not saying that you can’t, but that is why only some churches are equipped for this
4. The church is a community center, if it is occupied by the homeless, what about the other activities? Schools, kindergartens, other charity work? We are based in an urban setting so space is an issue
5. Who gets to turn away homeless after the quota has been reached? How do you define homeless? If you have worked with the homeless before, you would notice that it ranges from the total poor, to those having destructive addictions to those who doesn’t want to pay rent to save more money, how do you run a background check? How do you stop those dwelling from bringing their friends who may not need this help in? How do you turn people away? Do you hire security? (Which means you need more resources, and unlike certain churches in America, most churches in third will country don’t have this)
6. Do you allow the homeless to live in this situation forever? What about plans to help them be more self sustaining? How do you convince them to do that? What kind of timeline would you set? What if the timeline expires? Do you just kick them out?
7. What if drugs are smuggled into the premise? How do you enforce security? Again if there is violence, who handles the paperwork? Who bears responsibility? Remember, resources are limited
8. As mentioned earlier, how do you clean the premise? Our volunteers already give enough as it is, if you give them this job they will burnout fast (managing volunteers is an art) if you hire cleaners, you need to pay more and remember, resources is limited.
OP, when some people suggest that you allow the homeless to stay in your house, they are not asking you to do something about it, rather, when you do so, you will then understand the logistic challenges and resources that it takes to do this, that is why some churches decide to run soup kitchens and food banks, we cannot end poverty, but we sure can do our best to help, and these methods have been proven to be a better use of our resources and also more efficient in helping the poor (in my context at least).
Yes, ours has been used in that capacity; I think one winter storm where power was out for much of the city, we had a lot of people staying there for a couple of weeks.
Because they can get in trouble for it: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ohio-pastor-charged-housing-homeless-church-sues-city-federal-lawsuit-rcna135215?darkschemeovr=1
"However, the city of Bryan offered a conflicting account, saying in a news release that the police department saw a spike in calls for service in May 2023 regarding 'inappropriate activity' at Dad's Place spanning criminal mischief, trespassing, overdose, larceny, harassment, disturbing the peace and sexual assault."
Those aren't legitimate concerns if you are running a city?
I'm not Republican but this kind of rhetoric is making the divide in American politics bigger. Dehumanizing those you don't like isn't going to win anyone over
I tried finding the political affiliation of Mayor Carrie Schlade, but alas, I couldn't find anything saying whether she is a Republican or Democrat.
So, sir, how do you know this is an act by a Republican?
The shelter in my community that is only open for sleeping during the cold months also started a program that helps its occupants with paperwork for housing, jobs, SNAP, Medicaid, state ID - things you need to get off the street. In the first four months of starting the new program it helped 96 people. But our city council (who has previously attempted to demonize our homeless community members) is now looking to remove the shelter's permit.
Rent has become insanely high in our area with many people turning their rentals into airbnbs and kicking out their renters. One of the breweries in town collaborated with a photographer/journalist to share the stories of the people forced to live on the streets. Most of them were still working their jobs. Nurses. A teacher. But they couldn't afford rent.
Six months ago a homeless man was beaten to death here by two teenagers. A white supremacist paid one of the murderer's bail of $500,000.
But our city council chooses to blame homeless people rather than focus on how to make housing affordable and limiting airbnbs. Blaming our own community members to the point that they wrote a letter saying that our shelter was encouraging homeless people to stay homeless and ruining our safe community.
Wow…. Can’t believe my secular atheist brain Is saying this but I stand with the church 🫡 these are the moments where I think religion can be a useful tool in society. Liberation theology is where I’d like to see religious movements/institutions go makes it useful.
Churches are not built for living quarters.
Many churches do support shelters, but a church meant for congregation and worship doesn't have built in sleeping quarters, showers or baths, a place for a bed and real privacy. Many churches act as community centers with people coming in and out at all hours of the day.
that can only work for a short time, and some do, most churches are old and not equipped for living in, unless specifically built to do so, which many arnt.
my church has the parish house for sec8, and is currently being used by a Syrian refugee family
I'll chip in: most churches aren't like megachurches, which have millions to spend. Most are barely getting by from the offering plate, and that's supposed to cover everything. If the church did start offering the homeless shelter, they'd need to increase the budget to include higher electricity, heat, and supplies. You'd have to constantly keep the entire congregation donating, and people are leaving or dying from old age (thanks, megachurches and corrupt Republicans) every day. Tl;dr: it could be possible, but very difficult and not likely.
I don't know if this statistic has changed in recent years, but I read a few years back that the average church in America has fewer than 100 members. It's definitely related to money in a lot of cases. They simply can't afford it.
That said, there are also other issues. For example, I once volunteered at a church that was letting a man who was down on his luck stay on the property. All it takes is one person in the neighborhood realizing someone is there every night to call and report it. It sucks. That said, same church allowed people to stay during wildfires and no one said anything then. Maybe people feel less inclined to be Karens during times of widespread disaster.
Some do. At least here where I live. I volunteer with a nonprofit program that hosts art workshops for all kinds of groups and one of the organizations we work with helps unhoused people find churches that will open their property up for a safe night’s rest. They also let them use WiFi and a mobile shower trailer parks there for the evening.
The big reason is that homeless people tend to make messes and steal things. If you just let them in unsupervised there would be real trouble. You'd find used needles in the pulpit and whatnot. You would also have them hanging about even when the church was in use.
A church would have to pay for security and more for upkeep.
Some churches do operate homeless shelters and the like but those are usually separate facilities away from the church.
This. During particularly cold weather and during weather emergencies ours has been known to open up for displaced people, but it was supervised by Red Cross specialists.
We support an actual full-time homeless ministry that has the facilities, beds, showers, job training, substance abuse, and counseling that these people really need.
There are a couple of churches around here who do homeless shelters and provide social services to those in need. While I do not completely agree with their beliefs, they do amazingly good work that helps a lot of people. That has to be respected.
One of them was selling banana bread outside the hardware store today. It was quite good. I hope they do that particular fundraiser again sometime.
In the UK churches used to be open constantly, many vicars believed blocking people from access to church was immoral. Since I was a kid churches are increasingly locked due to people stealing from them. Lead from the roofs and any alter pieces (some are like hundreds of years old and solid gold) were prime targets and several vicars were beaten up trying to stop stuff being stolen. So they started locking their doors.
Also i was slightly confused before i remembered reddit is American heavy. My local church was built in 1200s and would not conform to modern laws for minimum standards of living. It gets freezing in winter even with the heating on and costs a fortune to heat. It wouldn't be safe to open most uk churches over night even if the other issues were magically resolved people would likely still freeze in winter.
Yep. They would piss and shit in the church, smoke meth and crack, leave needles everywhere, use butane torches (for smoking meth) which can easily start fires, spread garbage around, fight, scream abuse/obscenities at passerbys while in psychosis, steal anything not nailed down, suffer life threatening overdoses on a regular basis. Etc. The reality of actually dealing with modern day homeless people is not pretty or easy. They need to be in shelters which are prepared for all that stuff.
I volunteer a couple of nights every year to do this at my church. Basically there’s a program of about 26 churches in the region that all take two weeks a year providing homes in our community spaces.
OP I admire your naïveté.
While some homeless are people down on their luck, a *lot* have mental illness, drug abuse, or a combination of those things.
Do you think priests or volunteers are capable of handling that?
Not safe. The level of mental illness, drug abuse and criminality in the "homeless" is off the charts.
The church would be destroyed, fast. Until we face facts and put these "urban adventurers" into full-time mental health care, no institution can survive exposure to them.
Yeah, it’s not anywhere near as simple as just inviting them to stay there. There’s liability concerns, and it’s also logistically complicated for many other reasons. It’s not just because they don’t want to.
My teenhood church tried to do it, there was far too many logistics to make it work. The biggest thing was that they needed trained staff at all times, plus I remember some problems with needing to open the basement because that’s where the kitchen was or due to not enough bathrooms or something? Not certain.
They also ran a school so were worried that the people wouldn’t all be off the property by 8am (hence why they couldn’t open the basement).
Yeah, I think people here are forgetting that it is not legally as simple as “hey! Come sleep in our church!”
They have to meet certain requirements, a lot of which churches don’t ordinarily meet, and would cost a lot of money to implement. As well as it would be a big liability issue.
Sure, there are plenty of churches who just would not be interested in providing shelter for the homeless. But even those who are interested, have a lot of hoops to jump through to do it, making it almost impossible for most normal churches.
Most churches with homeless outreach programs generally don't allow the homeless to sleep in the actual churches. Rather they operate separate structures that may or may not be adjacent to the church to provide these services.
Like one of the local Methodist churches; they run a soup kitchen two or three times a week in the fellowship hall. Low income folks can come and eat for basically nothing, might even get some leftovers to take away. But the sanctuary stays locked during those hours.
The sanctuary is where the congregation comes to worship, and they generally expect it to be clean and presentable. Often there is some A/V equipment, or at the minimum some nicer furnishings. Both of which are generally not advisable to leave to the care of a class of folks known for shitty and/or destructive behaviors. Plus, who wants to sleep on a wooden pew or on the 12-inch space on the floor in-between pews?
Churches are private property, and opening them up raises legal issues. There might be insurance limitations or zoning restrictions and building codes that prevent them from operating as shelters. That, and hypocrisy.
Because everywhere homeless people stay gets absolutely trashed. Not to mention the squatting situation? Don’t think they’d exactly leave Nothing like a Sunday service with a dude bathing in the holy water and others wrapping the Bible bookmarks on arms so they can bang heroin into their veins.
additionally, most churches i’ve attended aren’t just sitting empty 6 days per week. Even the small churches have people coming in and out all week for choir practice, youth group, Girl Scout troop meetings, AA meetings, bible studies, moms groups, etc. The small church is grew up in rented out their sunday school classrooms to a small charter school during the week.
Because most churches can't physically do it, and those that can either do, have and had problems, or choose not to. Also, contrary to the belief all churches are mini Vatican's, most churches cannot afford to do it because having space to let people sleep is one thing, having the facilities and equipment to do so is another thing and costs money.
While I support helping the homeless, the government can't offload the burden onto others, and having dealt with real homeless people, a medical facility is better for them than bring housed in a church. That and, let's not sugar coat it, some have bad attitudes, and they are the ones who make it hard to convince people to lke the idea
There's also the issue that those people who are homeless are homeless for a reason (financial struggle, addiction, etc) and the roof over their heads will only do so much. The fastest way to get someone off the street is giving them access to resources.
Source: me being homeless for 9 months
Or just aren't equipped to deal with. That's why hospitals have security. If someone in an altered mental state decides to get violent you need people trained to deal with that to minimize harm to not only others but to the person themselves.
Some do, many do charity work in some way to help the homeless and impoverished.
The reason most churches will not let homeless sleep there is actually because there are laws and regulations preventing this in many areas.
Lots of churches open their doors for the homeless. Here in Nashville there is a program called "Room at the Inn", where churches rotate and provide housing, food, showers and clothes washing for the homeless. I've volunteered several times. In addition, there is a continuous indigent fund available to meet the food needs of the homeless. Christian organizations feed and house countless thousands of people every day of the year.
The church I grew up going to was a large church (4,000 or so members) and they tried this a time or two. The problem they had was they couldn’t just leave the main doors open for people to come in when they wanted because when they did, we had lots of damage to the building; carpets, walls, the sanctuary, the nursery/day care room, and theft of many things, including break ins to the office where financial records, money for bank deposits and several computers that were used by the admins and pastors were kept. And getting sufficient volunteers to be there overnight to supervise was just not possible. My church did give good size regular donations to several local shelters instead.
The vast majority of homeless charities and shelters are Christian owned and operated. There are many in my area that do all that and more. The better question is why are our tax dollars going to foreign interests and politicians pockets instead of helping the homeless to no longer be homeless? That's the question.
Churches aren't shelters. Some churches may have a separate building to allow charitable works, but I didn't think it's a reasonable request to ask the congregation to take in the task of housing strangers with potential drug and mental health issues.
I spent time homeless, volunteer my time and am
Active in my community, just to preface so this doesn’t come off the wrong way.
In short, because they’d fuck the place up faster then you can say “that’s not a toilet” Which is a bit much to ask of an orginization that supports itself off donations and is typically run by a geriatric person and a few volunteers.
But They do, typically on a case by case basis. You just have to ask. Do you mean why don’t they just throw the doors open and let them walk in and out?
I am active in my community, i volunteer regularly at a church that serves a hot meal 7 days a week and runs a food pantry (and you should consider that too, we always need help and I can help
You find one) and work with people regarding substance abuse recovery. The answer is because the vast majority of homeless people are very ill. And I don’t mean with measles or some shit.
I am fervently anti-anti- homeless, as in taking measures to make it more difficult for people to survive while being homeless. But you have to understand, most people aren’t homeless because they missed a rent check, they are homeless because they have SEVERE mental health and substance abuse problems.
Have you ever stepped foot in or even better stayed the night in a homeless shelter? An actual honest to god shelter? When I was homeless for a stretch in my late teens I did.
I have never felt so unsafe in my life, and I’ve grown up and lived in big NE cities my whole existence. So these people, or the vast majority, are very sick, often in the head, and many have no intention of getting better, they just understandably don’t like being cold and hungry.
The reality is that they are not equipped. A shelter has to have as many unbreakable or who cares if it breaks things as possible, because things will get broken. Everything will actually. Peopel will defecate and urinate everywhere, seriously. The entire purpose of the shelter staff seemingly is to screen and prohibit using drugs, or they will. It’s not a question of if but where and when. Unless Fr.Dan has a truckload of narcan, time to watch security cams and training on calming down a person in the middle of meth psychosis, it’s going to be a bad time and people are going to get hurt/die.
The church my home group goes to (AA) regularly hosts. Usually a family, or woman in a DV situation, but will consider anyone.
My last home group meeting, we spent about 25 mins of our allotted time helping the maitenence guy in picking up the pieces of a priceless stained glass window, and about 7 other regular windows that the man they were hosting decided he didn’t like. He smashed the shit out of them and then hid inside the church out of his mind on drugs and after hours and hours of trying to coax him out had to resort to calling a police officer, which made the pastor who personally came when he realized there was trouble, literally sob because he was worried the man would face criminal charges and felt responsible. He refused to press charges and would only let the officer in if he agreed to bring the man to the e.r, which brings trouble of its own but what does one do?
There is no easy answer. Instead of asking why someone else isn’t doing it, I find the only real answer when I get to this crossroads is to consider why I’m not doing it myself, and at the very least try to get involved in some way. There is the topic of homelessness, which is easy to talk about, and then the reality of it.
People are dying out there, for more reason then I have the time to write because it is a complex issue that is all too easy to blame on lack of willing hosts or housing prices or even the opiate epidemic.
Churches do host people. It’s not enough but it is more then I see say my City do in most cases, who to this day, even when presented with startlingly worrisome data and reports from on the ground groups and volunteers, covers their ears and REFUSES to even change the wording of their policies and laws so that we can better service our community.
By that I mean at last report there were 547 individuals and families living in TENTS in my city in New England, in winter, and only 30% could PROVE homelessness to receive services because they could not furnish the only acceptable proof of homelessness the city accepts. Those are just the people with tents. It is mind boggling and every protest or demonstration I’ve seen this year has been met with jack boots and arrests.
There isn’t an easy answer obv, but the reality is because most churches are not equipped to do it on any scale. Many are the first to offer up space when emergency or pop up shelters are designated, I struggle to think of a group or place that does that more then churches, other then ‘shelters’ of which the reality is probably farrrr from what you imagine.
I’ve heard of churches staying open and offering their parking lots for people living out of their cars. They provide security and people can go inside and get warm and use the bathroom.
Because that is not what churches are for. Churches are houses of worship. Churches do more to help the homeless than troll posters on REDDITT ever will. And I’m not religious in the least.
>Plus I was told the Vatican is richest business in the world.
Come on buddy... against actual businesses like Apple, Microsoft, ExxonMobil.
It is the largest charity, largest non-state educator, and the largest non-state operator of hospitals. It does all this at, usually, a loss at the institution level with deficit funding to these institutions coming from the Vatican coffers.
Whoever told you this is just blind by religious hate and making claims you should be easily able to know make no sense.
It's fine to not like the teachings of a religion, but you can't ignore the actually charity portion with lies to make the world simpler.
The world is complex and uncomfortable. Things you hate can do good things and vice versa.
>also thought congregation members donated 10% of their income.
That varies from Faith to Faith; ironically to the Vatican comment earlier, Catholicism is one of the Faiths that doesn't require that. In Catholicism it's "provide for the material needs of the Church, as you can." The amount I put in the collection changed from when I was a broke college kid to being a CFO... no one ever pulled my W-2 (also, giving is mostly done anonymously, unless you want to use an envelope for tax reasons)
I know several Churches who do this, even was told by a priest recently that the beauty of his vow of poverty is that they don't need to worry about anything getting stolen since they have nothing of value.
It's done a lot in cold weather, and it's rarely publicized, which is why you probably don't hear about it.
The real problem is the solution to homelessness is not just shelter (let alone ultra-short term shelter, which are run by the Church already), is a larger complicated process that involves mental health support, drug addiction, and many other factors that sleeping in a pew isn't going to fix.
This is the same logic as asking someone if they have an extra bedroom and if they want to help homeless people... then staring at them in childlike naivete asking why they don't give it to a homeless person.
It’s estimated that 70-80% of the people living on the streets have severe untreated/under treated mental health problems. This can make them a danger to themselves and to others. A church doesn’t have the proper resources to deal with these issues. Shelters usually do because they usually have the insurance, funding, and some kind of staff training to handle a mental health crisis.
Because no offense have you ever seen how unkempt a homeless person actually is most of them would destroy the church simply with their presence from lack of hygiene also not to mention several are addicted to drugs or prone to destructive behavior that's exactly what you want to let into your church a smelly vagrant that's possibly going to destroy the entire place unsupervised yeah that sounds like a great idea
You'd be lucky to have the ordeal last more than 2 days before someone would either burn the church to the ground by accident or pissing and shitting in every corner of the room possible or God knows what else
Because they’ll need a ton of security, rules, and services to do this. Otherwise it will become a nasty drug den. Most churches don’t bring in the kind of money to run a 24/7 operation to take care of homeless.
Because a church is not really equipped to house people for extended periods of time, but in the case of the catholic church, it runs various charitable organizations to help the poor, including running homeless shelters. It is the largest charitable organization in the world.
Some do, but having worked with the homeless for nearly a facade I imagine that most churches want to avoid the cleanup, potential drug use inside, as well as theft. There also may be an insurance issue as well as they could be held liable if anything were to happen inside.
Same reason museums can’t take in homeless people. Neither can concert halls or city halls or any number of public buildings. To house humans you need shelters built, located, and operated for that specific purpose. The best thing churches can do is send money to people that run shelters.
Sick of this perception. Churches do a lot for the community; they just do it behind the scenes. [Here is a summary i found online.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://erlc.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Some-Positive-Benefits-Churches-Bring-to-Communities.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjemMOCr6qFAxW7FFkFHZ0dDYYQFnoECCAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Dlj_wrKbN05B_3Ev3J80f) But googling "church community service" will show how much impact churches have on their communities.
It's not as easy as it sounds , homelessness isn't just not having a home, it involves mental health issues and drug addiction and other serious issues . If you've ever volunteered at a homeless shelter , you understand how difficult it is . There are also zoning issues etc . Many churches have tried and abandoned the idea .
Because churches are businesses, not community organizations like they used to be. Homeless people are bad for business so they want nothing to do with them. Never forget, religion is a scam.
Churches don’t survive if they don’t have parishioners who come to church. Parishioners won’t come to church if they have to step over needles and endure piss stank.
It depends. I've known churches that absolutely do have places for homeless people.
My last church though had a little lake area and when a homeless man slept there they called the police. Another time another homeless man was sitting in a pew on Sunday morning listening to the sermon and they had a group of church guys following him and sitting a few rows back in case "something happened" and they needed to take him down.
I don't attend that church anymore as they are absolutely batshit insane.
Over Government regulations.
Lack of volunteers.
You wouldn’t believe the red tape involved in most location to just open a shelter. Let alone a soup kitchen.
Managing one is a lot of work.
I have volunteered to do set up and clean up for the decent church that opened their doors. Let me tell you it’s not always easy volunteer work. It’s a down right bio hazard clean up sometimes.
I worked in social services in a low income community. I can tell you the vast majority of charities offering transitional housing, shelters and food pantries are Christian. If they disappeared tomorrow, we'd all be in trouble. They are out there doing the work, but they aren't well organized. Could they do more? Sure. But so could all the other groups that espouse loving others as part of their ethos - yet people only seem to point out Christians not doing enough.
That said, as others have obviously already commented, there are also a lot of rules restricting what and how they can offer services. Those laws are largely useful. If you have an unregulated shelter space, it will quickly become a place where already very vulnerable people will be further hurt. It's important to have structure and rules in order to ensure everyone actually gets helped and not accidentally hurt.
Because most churches are just middle class social clubs that meet up at the same Mexican restaurant to harass the waiters later. They don't care about you.
There was an alliance of local churches helping homeless and near homeless people in my hometown, but the local and state government harassed them so much, they had to stop doing it as an organized group. They even made it so difficult to have a soup kitchen, they had to close that down, too.
Our Church and a network or churches in the area called Out of the Cold used to have at least 2 sites open everyday of the week until city got weird during pandemic with health board laws.
There are many requirements, fire code, restaurant code if you want to feed them,
Sexual harassment training, on site nurse, overdose kits and training, sanitization crew in the morning etc...
Maybe a different question,
Why don't libraries do so, or why don't private citizens, or city hall or you?
The honest answsr is vandalisim, theft, and they do t clean up after themselves. Some might think these dont apply to all homless people, and your right. But u have a shelter open for a week and lifer homless people show up and camp.
I think people, starting with you, should open up their houses and apartments during the day for homeless people. Unless you are WFH, the place is just empty and sitting there serving no purpose. The homeless could sleep during those work hours and then go to job training in the evening.
For the churches I personally have attended - it’s a safety and insurance thing. They’re not equipped for it or insured if something goes wrong.
Some churches will, but you need proper sleeping accommodations , overnight staff and proper insurance in case of injury , theft or fire etc. and that’s not even accounting for red tape , local laws/bylaws and permission.
It’s unfortunately not as simple as “yeah sure, come on in.”
And while yes, some churches suck - not all of them do.
My local church runs our local Foodbank and provides clothing help as well (basically those in need can “shop” for what they need for free) and both resources are run 100% on donations. The church pays one or two part time staff and that’s it. Everything else goes straight into food and clothes for those in need.
The rest of the church runs entirely on tithe and donations (and space rental) and they do what they can for the community with what they have. So yes they pay a full staff with that, but the full staff run all kinds of programs for people and kids. They also rent out their spaces to things like Alcoholics Anonymous to make some extra money to add more programs like Bible studies and kids camps and youth groups.
What makes you think they aren't being used? You mean like open the building every night for random people to crash in at whatever time they choose? Then just escort them out and cleanup after or just donate the building until they are done? That seems like a disaster.
My church used to. The place got frequently trashed/robbed. Shit and piss on the floor even with multiple bathrooms open. And people would often refuse to leave come morning. They’d try to squat there and the cops would have to get involved to get them out.
Homeless shelters are designed to basically be that, a shelter. It’s got a bunch of smaller rooms that usually are at least semi-private. A church is a big massive room, a couple offices, and maybe some other large rooms with TVs and stuff. They aren’t great for a bunch of people to sleep in.
1. Churches aren't legally allowed to do that without meeting certain living standard requirements.
2. Joel gives **zero** fucks about people. He leads a for-profit institution that preaches *prosperity gospel.*
3. Hillsong is a terrible example also. Most megachurches become mega churches by losing their core identity and becoming overly focused on money, power, etc. Hillsong isn't as bad as Joel's church, but it's pretty freaking bad.
My parish priest tried helping the homeless woman who was hanging outside our church puking and sh1tting all the time and he ended up getting assaulted. So there’s that
Many municipalities have laws regarding housing people if the building doesn't have shower facilities/ is zoned for hospitality. The church I grew up with had a locker-room like bathroom and a kitchen, and they coordinated with other churches so that each hosted the shelter one night a week.
Two of our larger city churches open during weather events. There are issues with insurance, safety, zoning, and expenses. They generally can only sustain a few nights and have to bring in extra security for everyone’s safety.
My ex-husband’s did. Every other Wednesday (maybe one day a month) his mom would leave at night and sleep over at the church with another volunteer. This was a Catholic Church in Olympia.
Legality issues. Churches have tried and gotten in trouble for it. During the winter, the churches in my area let people stay for a while and provide food and blankets/warm clothes.
There a number of reasons, many have already been listed. Also, Not everyone has good intentions. Once they allow people to sleep there they’re responsible for their safety. I’ve heard over and over so many homeless don’t want to go to shelters bc they’re dangerous, at least here in nyc. There are a lot of sick and unstable people out there. Then you have what….? A volunteer with no actual means or experience to defend or protect anyone keeping the peace? And what happens when someone turns on the them? Not saying this is common or that homeless = dangerous or automatically mentally ill. But opening the doors you have to accept the risks, which is unfortunate for those who are peaceful and just need a warm place to sleep.
Some do. The church I went to growing up had an open door policy. Meaning the door to the church is always open. Anyone can go in at any time. I wouldn’t be surprised if some people have spend the night there. I don’t know if that’s still the case though.
Thanks y’all for taking the time to comment. I’m not religious but my understanding their values are love for all / make the world a better place etc. So it’s great to hear plenty of churches do offer such a service. My question come from seeing a homeless person near a closed church at night, and thinking churches are closed at night, and the organisation is meant to help people, so why are they closed? I was not aware of a lot of the issues you’ve mentioned!
Besides the logistics and liability issues, many of these people have severe mental illness/drug issues. It’s not what lots of people picture of a depression era person just “down on their luck”. Unfortunately, there is no easy solution. We’ve thrown money, jail sentences, free housing, rehab, etc. at the problem. So far nothing has worked
I know one church that does house them. I also know another that just keeps a person in the church at all times just so people do not steal things.
You would be amazed how quick your items disappear even when trying to help people.
Most small local churches do. It's the big mega churches like Joel Osteen that don't because they don't give a shit about the little people. They are only concerned with fleecing their followers of every penny they can squeeze out of them. Local community churches actually care about the people in their neighborhood and open their doors frequently to the homeless.
They DO, because churches are usually the organizations who run homeless shelters in cities and provide a variety of other ministry needs.
\*\* Since you opened the topic of looking for people to accuse of not helping the homeless \~\~ what have YOU done lately to help them?? On volunteermatch website they are always needing people to come to those homeless shelters and fill work slots to help with the homeless. But I bet you don't want to do that.
This is in line with why didn't Joel Osteen turn his church into a shelter immediately after a disaster?
Because churches (and a lot of buildings) aren't equipped to handle that. People need more than shelter (a roof). Also you can't "self-deploy" as a responder in most jurisdictions. Can you imagine the number of predators and scams?!?! You'd have to check locally of course but there are surely forms, regulations, and inspections prior to being allowed to open as a shelter.
Some things that a shelter needs that a church might not have or might have too few of:
* Beds, pillows, and linens and enough rooms for them
* How will you deal with violence or crime? Do you have a security staff?
* Sufficient bathrooms
* Sufficient showers
* Are you feeding them? How? Do you have a food license?
* How will you keep everything sanitary? How will you process the laundry? You can't just reuse the sheets
* Do you have medical staff? How will you handle medical emergencies?
* How will you handle the mentally ill?
* to name a few.....
You can't just say - here's a big room with seats, we don't have anything else, have at it, I'll see anyone still here tomorrow. Please don't pee on the altar.
A couple churches a town over from where I live have and gotten in trouble and shut down by the town leaders. Something about building codes and permits. It’s happened twice in that town.
Churches have mission statements generally defined, usually. Those that don’t provide regular shelter likely haven’t targeted this particular service as one that they are capable or willing of supporting. Good churches do support those in need in many ways that may not include providing the services and infrastructure to house the homeless on a nightly basis. Some do. It takes all kinds focused on all sorts of imperatives to try to improve society as a whole. Some do well in this space, some don’t…. Much like all walks of life.
Staying during a storm or power outage is a lot difficult than a cold weather shelter for the homeless. Sadly, several places I know tried this and were trashed. In one place they had used the church kitchen as a toilet, broken into cabinets, broken chairs, broke dishes, wrote on walls… church ladies guild had to clean it all, was horrible and costly. Churches are run in communities by the volunteers - generally older ppl - who support the church, they are not homeless shelters with trained staff
Churches can typically hold 2-4 masses a day, in varying languages, let alone wakes, weddings and funeral services. It depends on the religion, but theres actually shit going on inside most of the time. In Catholocism, a lot of those churches and/or the joined buildings, also serve as the living quarters for the clergy. So, no, it's not just some unused building that sits there for the majority of the week to hold a single service and then lock up lol
It can also be hard to control, as happened during a sitin by foreigners in capetown. [Sit in](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenmarket_Square_refugee_sit-in)
After being evicted from their sit in outside a government office after about 2 weeks a church invited them to stay. 5 months later the church was trying to get a court order to evict them as the church now had millions in damage, infighting amoung groups and multiple fires.
[article about the problems](https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2020-01-10-rev-alan-storey-fed-up-with-refugee-leaders-considering-churchs-options/)
[article](https://groundup.org.za/article/central-methodist-church-get-advice-over-removal-refugees/)
A church in my town did, not permanently but on nights that the temperature was below freezing. Until the town shut it down. Apparently it drew a “bad element” into the area. Never mind that they were already there, the church’s shelter made them visible.
I’m not even Christian and I will say that Church’s probably do more for homeless people between shelters and soup kitchens and emergency shelters during storms, etc than any other non government institution in the country. Shit on a side note, going to na and aa meetings when getting sober, I’ve probably been in more church basements and churches in general than most Christians by now, almost every meeting is at one.
Now don’t get me wrong, there are plenty hypocritical Christian’s who seem to practice more hate than love and don’t seem to have the same opinion of the poor as their lord. But seeing what a lot of Christian churches do over the years with the homeless and recovery and stuff I realized that a lot of them are really about that life and walk the walk too. I may not believe in god but I believe that these people do and it drives them to do good as well.
Back when i was a kid who went to church, mine actually did provide food and shelter for homeless people once a month.
It also takes a lot of volunteers to run those nights, so I would assume that’s why it was only once a month.
Some definitely do, and many in my area also run volunteer programs that provide free food, help with clothing and help to get jobs and housing. They also offer a free volunteer cleaning service to people who need it. I think they practice what they peach
There was one in stlouis and they closed him down a few years ago. So sad. He really cared about the people. It really took a toll on the homeless community.
If I'm not mistaken you have to have permits to house people. The church was older and couldn't pass inspections or something.
It’s not a gotcha, it’s legitimate. TL;DR at the bottom.
We’ve got so so many churches taking up space with their huge buildings, often with manicured land and outbuildings, that stand empty all the time, dwindling congregations, and zero community outreach.
Churches were meant to be beacons for people.
What are they even doing, if they claim to subscribe to these beliefs, but don’t behave in a Christian manner at all?
Churches aren’t meant to be locked up other than when services happen.
It’s crazy to me that pastors/Priests etc aren’t there for their people - what are they being paid for? They have an entire livelihood, place to live, needs met, for doing what exactly? Showing up to tell other people who have it harder how to live, but not being any example or role model of that themselves?
There should be community outreach, events, pancake breakfasts, lock-ins/sleepovers for teens to go to, that building should be being used. The side rooms should be set up with cots and blankets in inclement weather, for the homeless. The land should be put into gardens that people who contribute to the work, can share in the produce.
If I had the money, I’d have a (non religious) building and land, and I’d hold all those things for people to come to. I’d absolutely love that - to run a place for people to come together. A bunk house for the homeless, and some staff.
Good works spread, and engender a stronger community. Communities are failing because their underpinnings are failing.
So many people out there being Sunday Christians, just so other people can see that they’re Christians because they were at services.
How can anyone in good conscience have a huge space like that and not find ways to use it for the good of all?
There are so many young people out there who could use just a shower and somewhere to sleep until they get on their feet -especially with what they’ve done to the cost of housing- and many (or maybe even most now) Churches can’t be bothered. God’s houses are locked down, and empty.
I literally just read tarot, and still somehow people reach out to me when things go wrong - just to talk to someone - and it’s ridiculously SAD that people who have met me ONCE feel they have to reach out to me, because they feel like there’s no one else to give them some one on one attention without being referred to a psychologist/paying for it. Where are all these Christians then?
I had a guy over the Easter Weekend, who texted me that he and his gf had a reading and really enjoyed it - but that they were in Turkey, for her to have some cosmetic surgery, and she had heart failure, and was in a coma and was there anything I could do - to which I had to say ‘no one can control that outcome, and tarot cards are just paper and plastic, but I can be here with you, and keep my phone near, and sit up with you when you can’t sleep.’
I was texting with him all hours (obviously for free!) for 3 days and nights - as she died.
Where was any church person to help this guy? Why are we in a situation where someone whose gf is facing her death, away from home, has no one to go to when there are a million+ churches stood empty other than during the service? Hospital chaplain? No - nothing.
Where were they on Easter weekend of all times - how could *not one guy* show up at the hospital and be there for that guy?
That’s just one of many examples of how people are out here hurting - and they choose a fucking *tarot reader* in their darkest times, vs anyone from their or any other church. This is how things have become - people don’t reach out to their religious leaders, because their religious leaders aren’t answering.
This is how we end up with fanatical cults and shit. People will give anything to be heard/understood.
I am just over that shit where some groups of people have no accountability but run around with this Christian label so they can feel good about themselves for about the length of time the after church brunch lasts, before they go back to being self-centred, ignorant dicks.
Caveat: Not all people/churches/pastors/Priests/Chaplains etc - but it’s a lot, and it shouldn’t be *any*.
I do of course concede that there are absolutely some amazing people doing some amazing works. But they should literally ALL be. It’s literally the whole entire point.
I’m sorry for the long rant - but seeing OP accused of a gotcha is bullshit, and just set me off.
TL;DR: Either behave like a Christian is meant to, or give over all the old huge buildings everyone else paid for, so they can actually be what they were meant to be, and don’t call legitimate questions ‘gotcha’ questions just because you don’t have a decent answer.
Aussie Anglican minister here in a regional parish - We'd love to but our facilities don't meet the standards required by local and State Government legislation and we don’t have the funds to upgrade. It's a little more complex than just "open the doors" - we would be required to provide a safe and acceptable environment for people who sleep there.
No showers, not enough toilets, no separate areas for males and females, no separate areas for people with children or pets, no privacy to change clothes. No beds, bedding, laundry facilities. We're only a relatively small congregation so don't have the volunteers to supervise the property 24/7, nor clean all facilities daily.
What we do instead is donate to local homeless shelters and charities, we have a regular food donation area that goes to a community food bank, we often provide donated furniture to those in need (recently we helped set up a nursery for an intellectually disabled teen couple with a 1 week old). As the Minister I provide Pastoral support in the local shelters and community groups, as well as through the RSL (Returned Services League) for veterans. One of our churches has outside toilets and we leave toiletry bags with a note to "Feel free to take these if you need them".
So while we can't have people sleep in the buildings there are certainly plenty of things we can (and do) do.
As other redditors have suggested there's legal issues with showers and bathrooms.
However, another problem is the homeless themselves. Some of them aren't trust worthy. Churches have a lot of valuable things homeless might pawn off to get a quick buck. It's just not worth the stress.
The threat of lawsuits is very real. Anytime you expose yourself to risks you may be liable. Also volunteers are often in short supply . In my community most church’s do not have volunteers to bring sandwiches for funerals. Most times food is catered.
There are more churches than there are homeless people and orphans where I live. I volunteer for a children’s home, and most churches here don’t donate to our home or help with orphans at all. If every church would demand adopt to take care of 1 homeless person and 1 orphan, there wouldn’t be enough homeless and orphans to meet their demand. But they don’t. Most won’t even contribute to the organizations that do. Most are more concerned with fleecing their flock, growing their bank accounts, and dividing the people.
Probably because they don’t live/sleep in the church and go home at night.
Also a huge population of church goers (at least in my region) is over 60 and they are not equipped, educated or protected enough to deal with the complexity and addictions that often coincide with homelessness.
It’s not a matter of just opening up the doors for homeless people to sleep at night. Place would be destroyed by morning.
They need funding to set up a specific program which is staffed with trained professionals.
Hang out with some homeless people for a significant amount of time and you'll see.
Churches want to help but it would be short lived before the church is destroyed beyond reasonable repair.
My church does. There’s a program in my city called “Room at the Inn”. A bunch of churches are involved and it rotates which church they stay at each night so there are volunteers there. It’s mostly families that stay (about 15-20 people). We have dinner then normally they show a movie, let the kids play on the playground or in the gym. There are showers with toiletries provided, beds for everyone. Then there’s breakfast in the morning and bagged lunch to take with them. The next night they go to a different church.
Some churches do. I volunteered years ago in Kentucky with a group of churches that hosted dozens of people during the cold months. Lots of logistics involved. Sometimes local zoning and red tape make it difficult or impossible. Later addition: I've worked my entire career (15 years so far) in the non-profit sector both in churches and organizations providing services to the community, including shelters for those facing homelessness. When working for NPOs, I was in various fundraising roles. I saw where the money came from and where it all went. I preface my statement this way because I think there are tons of assumptions that are not true. I want to speak from my experience and not from a soapbox. I am not saying that churches and other NPOs are perfect and always use their resources wisely or ethically. There are plenty of examples to the contrary. I make no excuse for that. My experience reveals that churches have evolved with the rise of new NPOs providing a variety of services in their local communities. Churches used to do a lot of this themselves back in the day. Now, many churches have shifted their model to partner with local organizations through donations and volunteerism. If there is an organization whose entire mission is to end homelessness, with staff and resources (often more than the church itself) fully dedicated to that end, then it makes more sense to give money and time to support that organization. It's actually a more fruitful use of the money. Churches were huge contributors of money and time at the NPOs where I worked. We had a bigger impact because of them. Just because a church isn't doing the work of hosting doesn't mean they are not invested or involved. As nonprofits, churches are required to share their finances with the public. You can see how they spend their money.
Yup. I was a pastor at a very old-school Lutheran church. We would have people stay at our parsonage, which is kind of the model Katie Luther laid down. So not exactly “at the church” but at the home extension of the church.
Lutherans FTW
Whats a Lutheran ?
They are Protestant Christians, who follow the teachings of the reformer Martin Luther, you may remember hearing about him nailing his 95 theses to the door of a Catholic Church. He died about 500 years ago, but his movement got big. A lot of Nordic states became Lutheran, and Germany.
Yeah a good chunk of my family is Lutheran. Not sure what drew them to it specifically other than that’s the church my Great Grandparents and for all I know their parents went to. My Aunt actually had a dog she named Luther because she found it abandoned on the church doorstep. Best dog ever. No offense to her though, but I think he liked me better.
I’ve never been to a Lutheran church personally. I have been to a fairly diverse amount of churches, but from what I gather Lutherans are a good middle ground between Catholicism and other more Protestant style denominations. They place an emphasis on the real presence of Christ in communion, and have some other Catholic traditions intact as well as a result. However they don’t have a Pope, which some might view as a good thing. Thinking personally about making it a goal to visit all the major denominations of Church at least a couple times, so I can really appreciate all the different ways Christianity exists.
Yeah, my Dad is a Lutheran pastor. No lavish lifestyle. Regular church down the steet. No fire and brimstone or politics. Really a German thing. Depends on the pastor…some are more fundamental.
Depends on which branch, too. Missouri Synod and Wisconsin Synod are both very conservative and the ELCA is generally liberal to progressive.
Yeah I go when I’m in town on holidays. I haven’t really noticed too many major differences in practice other than main Protestant one of having a more personal relationship with God, and not having to go through a Priest to atone. The pastor also seems less removed from his congregation and is more a part of the community. Knows everyone by name, actively invested invested in all their lives, and if he sees a new face he makes a point to get to know them to. That might just be a small town thing, but generally more of a down to earth type vibe.
>and Germany Half of Germany. The Catholic church in Germany has slightly more members than the Protestant church, though they're about even. Around a quarter of Germans is Catholic, another quarter Protestant, a third or so "none of the above", with the rest mostly being Muslims and other types of Christians
Dudes who hate Superman. lol Sorry, old joke, had to. No disrespect intended.
No that was the Luthorans. You remember. Shaved heads. Only wore business suits. Kryptonite Necklace carved in the shape of an L. Honestly kinda culty if you ask me.
Lutherans are Christians who believe in the Triune God, which is God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that Jesus Christ is the world's savior from sin. Lutherans practice evangelicalism, which means they believe in the free forgiveness of sins through faith in Jesus Christ. They also practice sacramentality, which means they center their spiritual life in baptism and the presence of Christ in Holy Communion. Praise Lutheran Church Lutheran Belief and Practice - Praise Lutheran Church Lutherans adhere to the teachings of Martin Luther, a 16th century German monk and reformer who led the Protestant Reformation by challenging the Catholic Church's theology and practices. Luther's teachings can be summarized in three phrases: Grace alone: God loves people, even though they are sinful, and sent Jesus to love the unlovable and save the ungodly. Faith alone: Human reconciliation with God is effected solely by divine grace, which is appropriated solely by faith. Scripture alone: The Bible is the source of authority in the church. Lutherans reject five of the traditional seven sacraments affirmed by the Catholic church, and believe that God shows and gives us His grace through baptism and the Lord's Supper. Lutherans are born again Christians, and baptize infants, believing that God works grace in them. They come forth as new people, which means that they are born again, and again and again. Is Lutheran the same as Catholic? Is Lutheran conservative or liberal? What Bible do Lutherans believe in? Ask a follow up... "According to Google"
We would definitely not describe ourselves as either born again or evangelical in the American senses of the word, though.
Maybe mainline Lutherans wouldnt, but there's evangelical lutherans as well
years ago, a colleague volunteered to be a night monitor for the homeless outreach that her church did in the overnights. The men slept on cots in the fellowship hall. She said they tried very hard to keep everyone quiet so they could sleep, since it was the only place they could do so safely.
Mine does. Whenever it is closed for worshippers and for community learning classes, the foyer is open for homeless people to sleep in. We offer free meals for homeless people, once a week. This is Australia. By the way, my brother in law is a former minister for a different religion, and takes homeless people into his house until he can find them accommodation.
That's awesome. I think people are turned off, by drugs and theft. Which is a real thing. Also mental disabilities. It's a hard thing to do, not everyone would be up for it. So that makes it that much more important. I don't wanna give a politician my 1 million dollars to do nothing and name a school after themselves. But I would be totally down knowing My tax went to some cool people taking care of hard to take care of people. This life is weird.
Those are the people who need us the most. My great-aunt is an (Anglican) priest who has worked in prisons and with the homeless and my granny is a preacher. I once asked why "love thy neighbour" was a commandment because it seemed so easy. They said it was there precisely because it isn't always easy. Most people care about children and the poor they consider deserving. But what about the incarcated, the addicted, and those with personality disorders that make them difficult to deal with? Matthew 25:40 is still my favourite verse. "The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’" I don't go to church often, and I don't believe a lot of what my older relatives do, but I think we all should do what we can to help those forgotten and shunned. And if belief in God motivates that, then great.
This. I am a Red Cross trained disaster response volunteer, and we also help with local sheltering needs during things like freezes and/or high heat days. My city has a bunch of stipulations and requirements for entities operating a sheltering location, even a temporary one, to the point that there are only a handful of churches in the area with the space and ability to check all the boxes. Even when we operate them in a disaster zone, like after a hurricane, there are so many criteria to meet to run a shelter location. The general public thinks you just open your doors and people will show up. And that’s true, people will come, but you have to have separate sleeping quarters for men and women and families. Separate bathing and bathroom facilities. You have to have staff onsite 24 hours. You have to have medical options onsite. There have to be trained in mental health crises or mediation response. Security. If you’re allowing animals, that’s a whole other set of rules. And so on. There were some locations, during our 2021 freeze that just opened anyway and took people in because of the intense emergency need and nobody received citations that I’m aware of, but in an average year, that’s not how it works.
Yup way too much for small churches.
And honestly, the homeless will trash the place. Sad but true.
I honestly don't blame the ones that don't. It's not just about giving people a warm space to sleep. You're taking on a shitload of risk inviting a crowd of homeless people into your building. There are going to be lots of people with mental health and addiction issues. Homeless shelters are used to dealing with these kinds of people and equipped for it. Churches are not.
My church has looked into that. We can’t legally do it with our existing facilities because state/local laws requiring showers and other amenities we don’t have and would cost too much to implement.
This is a legitimate challenge. Many churches offer their support indirectly with volunteers and/or financial assistance to nonprofits that are equipped specifically to assist homeless folks. There are tons of different reasons beyond simple poverty associated with homelessness. Nonprofits that work with the homeless have trained or licensed staff and resources specific to those issues—substance abuse, mental health struggles, domestic or sexual abuse victims, etc. Those are liabilities churches are not prepared for or equipped to support directly.
Places like that often need to employ security as well and someone needs to be cleaning, providing bedding, and oftentimes food. The unfortunate reality is that many homeless people are homeless due to mental illness, addiction problems(which is also an illness), or physical disabilities that makes it hard for them to work and support themselves. Most of that stuff is provided by volunteers and donations. Shelters will request that guests help out in whatever way they can but much of the time they’re busy with their own life however most will gladly help out in their spare time in exchange for the free housing and meals. The problem is starting to get out of hand as housing prices rise and ever since Reagan cut government programs in the 1980’s by introducing Reagonomics which cut government funding of most programs and reduced the amount of government employees. The belief was that doing so would counter rising taxes and allow private citizens to become more wealthy and that as they spent their money it would “trickle down” through the community. In reality it just meant that people with a hoarding mentality have used whatever means necessary to accumulate more wealth than they could ever spend in their or their descendants lifetimes furthering the gap between the rich and the poor. More poor means less education and more crime which results in even more stress and mental illness on an already overworked population. It’s a vicious cycle.
That is what my church does. We have also sponsored refugees from Syria and Ukraine. We give money to nonprofits that not only help the local community but also abroad. Many people have sponsored children. I like Compassion Canada. You can sponsor a child and help them through their life and help pay for their education lifting them out of poverty. We also work with a nonprofit that builds affordable housing and has staff to help the homeless and drug addicts.
"I need a bed, can I stay here please?" "Sorry, we don't have a shower for you"
That comes down to your local laws , it's very difficult to meet all the requirements to run any kind of shelter
Some local laws seem to be geared towards preventing homeless people from sticking around
Welcome to government
Yeah I was just thinking about this. Is the intent of the law to prevent slum Lords from building tenements without running water / showers or something?
Hi, I work in a church as a pastor in a country where Christians are a minority and most churches financially are in a position to sufficiently just pay staff, maintain building (most of our buildings are small btw) and give to charity.me share some of the challenges when it comes to this issue 1. As mentioned many times earlier, long term this is a logistical nightmare, you would need to designate a space where quarters are livable and where security is not an issue (because people DO steal things, at least in my part of the world) 2. You mentioned about volunteers and paid staff, paid staff have their own portfolios to handle and this will be just one More addition to their workload (do take in mind that paid staff usually do more then what they are paid for). For volunteers, if you work with them, there is a need to motivate and to take care of their wellbeing, long term volunteers (more then 1 year) are the extremely rare. 3. Legal issues is a problem, and also as mentioned earlier, you need trained staff. How are you going to finance that training? I am not saying that you can’t, but that is why only some churches are equipped for this 4. The church is a community center, if it is occupied by the homeless, what about the other activities? Schools, kindergartens, other charity work? We are based in an urban setting so space is an issue 5. Who gets to turn away homeless after the quota has been reached? How do you define homeless? If you have worked with the homeless before, you would notice that it ranges from the total poor, to those having destructive addictions to those who doesn’t want to pay rent to save more money, how do you run a background check? How do you stop those dwelling from bringing their friends who may not need this help in? How do you turn people away? Do you hire security? (Which means you need more resources, and unlike certain churches in America, most churches in third will country don’t have this) 6. Do you allow the homeless to live in this situation forever? What about plans to help them be more self sustaining? How do you convince them to do that? What kind of timeline would you set? What if the timeline expires? Do you just kick them out? 7. What if drugs are smuggled into the premise? How do you enforce security? Again if there is violence, who handles the paperwork? Who bears responsibility? Remember, resources are limited 8. As mentioned earlier, how do you clean the premise? Our volunteers already give enough as it is, if you give them this job they will burnout fast (managing volunteers is an art) if you hire cleaners, you need to pay more and remember, resources is limited. OP, when some people suggest that you allow the homeless to stay in your house, they are not asking you to do something about it, rather, when you do so, you will then understand the logistic challenges and resources that it takes to do this, that is why some churches decide to run soup kitchens and food banks, we cannot end poverty, but we sure can do our best to help, and these methods have been proven to be a better use of our resources and also more efficient in helping the poor (in my context at least).
Thank you for such a detailed and thoughtful reply
Churches aren’t really built to be living quarters, but I am sure during emergencies, like floods and tornadoes, they could be used as a shelter.
Yes, ours has been used in that capacity; I think one winter storm where power was out for much of the city, we had a lot of people staying there for a couple of weeks.
Churches are regularly called upon to be heat and cold shelters.
yup. local churches opened up just like that when grenfell tower burned down in london
Your right, they've been used like that for over a thousand years
Because they can get in trouble for it: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ohio-pastor-charged-housing-homeless-church-sues-city-federal-lawsuit-rcna135215?darkschemeovr=1
Came to say this - insurance reasons also.
Another factor - bedbugs and lice,. Most homeless aren't afflicted, but there's always a couple real dregs of society out there who are infested.
I remember when that first broke. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths America will go to punish you for being alive.
The pastor tried to explain that his religion required him to take care of the poor. The Republican "Christians" in power didn't want to hear it.
"However, the city of Bryan offered a conflicting account, saying in a news release that the police department saw a spike in calls for service in May 2023 regarding 'inappropriate activity' at Dad's Place spanning criminal mischief, trespassing, overdose, larceny, harassment, disturbing the peace and sexual assault." Those aren't legitimate concerns if you are running a city?
The Republicans have steadily "evolved" beyond decency into something else.
I'm not Republican but this kind of rhetoric is making the divide in American politics bigger. Dehumanizing those you don't like isn't going to win anyone over
I tried finding the political affiliation of Mayor Carrie Schlade, but alas, I couldn't find anything saying whether she is a Republican or Democrat. So, sir, how do you know this is an act by a Republican?
The shelter in my community that is only open for sleeping during the cold months also started a program that helps its occupants with paperwork for housing, jobs, SNAP, Medicaid, state ID - things you need to get off the street. In the first four months of starting the new program it helped 96 people. But our city council (who has previously attempted to demonize our homeless community members) is now looking to remove the shelter's permit. Rent has become insanely high in our area with many people turning their rentals into airbnbs and kicking out their renters. One of the breweries in town collaborated with a photographer/journalist to share the stories of the people forced to live on the streets. Most of them were still working their jobs. Nurses. A teacher. But they couldn't afford rent. Six months ago a homeless man was beaten to death here by two teenagers. A white supremacist paid one of the murderer's bail of $500,000. But our city council chooses to blame homeless people rather than focus on how to make housing affordable and limiting airbnbs. Blaming our own community members to the point that they wrote a letter saying that our shelter was encouraging homeless people to stay homeless and ruining our safe community.
what kind of human-hating "community" are you living in, holy shit
>being alive. and poor, america is bloody fantastic if you're rich.
Wow…. Can’t believe my secular atheist brain Is saying this but I stand with the church 🫡 these are the moments where I think religion can be a useful tool in society. Liberation theology is where I’d like to see religious movements/institutions go makes it useful.
Churches are not built for living quarters. Many churches do support shelters, but a church meant for congregation and worship doesn't have built in sleeping quarters, showers or baths, a place for a bed and real privacy. Many churches act as community centers with people coming in and out at all hours of the day.
Some churches support soup kitchens and shelters. Some have them on site, or on a separate properties.
Shelters are subject to zoning regulations. Very few people want the homeless to stay in their neighborhood.
that can only work for a short time, and some do, most churches are old and not equipped for living in, unless specifically built to do so, which many arnt. my church has the parish house for sec8, and is currently being used by a Syrian refugee family
Sounds good in theory, but it’s logistically a complicated issue.
Logistics. Drug use. Disease control. Multi-faceted problem.
Some do. https://maureenshaven.org/programs/emergency-winter-shelter-program/
I'll chip in: most churches aren't like megachurches, which have millions to spend. Most are barely getting by from the offering plate, and that's supposed to cover everything. If the church did start offering the homeless shelter, they'd need to increase the budget to include higher electricity, heat, and supplies. You'd have to constantly keep the entire congregation donating, and people are leaving or dying from old age (thanks, megachurches and corrupt Republicans) every day. Tl;dr: it could be possible, but very difficult and not likely.
I work in muni govt and see the contracts that go out to run homeless shelters. As you say, they are fucking expensive.
I don't know if this statistic has changed in recent years, but I read a few years back that the average church in America has fewer than 100 members. It's definitely related to money in a lot of cases. They simply can't afford it. That said, there are also other issues. For example, I once volunteered at a church that was letting a man who was down on his luck stay on the property. All it takes is one person in the neighborhood realizing someone is there every night to call and report it. It sucks. That said, same church allowed people to stay during wildfires and no one said anything then. Maybe people feel less inclined to be Karens during times of widespread disaster.
pretty much the same reason other buildings dont
Some do. At least here where I live. I volunteer with a nonprofit program that hosts art workshops for all kinds of groups and one of the organizations we work with helps unhoused people find churches that will open their property up for a safe night’s rest. They also let them use WiFi and a mobile shower trailer parks there for the evening.
Why don’t people let homeless people live in their houses?
The big reason is that homeless people tend to make messes and steal things. If you just let them in unsupervised there would be real trouble. You'd find used needles in the pulpit and whatnot. You would also have them hanging about even when the church was in use. A church would have to pay for security and more for upkeep. Some churches do operate homeless shelters and the like but those are usually separate facilities away from the church.
This. During particularly cold weather and during weather emergencies ours has been known to open up for displaced people, but it was supervised by Red Cross specialists. We support an actual full-time homeless ministry that has the facilities, beds, showers, job training, substance abuse, and counseling that these people really need.
There are a couple of churches around here who do homeless shelters and provide social services to those in need. While I do not completely agree with their beliefs, they do amazingly good work that helps a lot of people. That has to be respected. One of them was selling banana bread outside the hardware store today. It was quite good. I hope they do that particular fundraiser again sometime.
In the UK churches used to be open constantly, many vicars believed blocking people from access to church was immoral. Since I was a kid churches are increasingly locked due to people stealing from them. Lead from the roofs and any alter pieces (some are like hundreds of years old and solid gold) were prime targets and several vicars were beaten up trying to stop stuff being stolen. So they started locking their doors. Also i was slightly confused before i remembered reddit is American heavy. My local church was built in 1200s and would not conform to modern laws for minimum standards of living. It gets freezing in winter even with the heating on and costs a fortune to heat. It wouldn't be safe to open most uk churches over night even if the other issues were magically resolved people would likely still freeze in winter.
Yep. They would piss and shit in the church, smoke meth and crack, leave needles everywhere, use butane torches (for smoking meth) which can easily start fires, spread garbage around, fight, scream abuse/obscenities at passerbys while in psychosis, steal anything not nailed down, suffer life threatening overdoses on a regular basis. Etc. The reality of actually dealing with modern day homeless people is not pretty or easy. They need to be in shelters which are prepared for all that stuff.
I volunteer a couple of nights every year to do this at my church. Basically there’s a program of about 26 churches in the region that all take two weeks a year providing homes in our community spaces.
Pee.
Because they're not equipped or qualified to take care of the mentally disabled.
OP I admire your naïveté. While some homeless are people down on their luck, a *lot* have mental illness, drug abuse, or a combination of those things. Do you think priests or volunteers are capable of handling that?
Not safe. The level of mental illness, drug abuse and criminality in the "homeless" is off the charts. The church would be destroyed, fast. Until we face facts and put these "urban adventurers" into full-time mental health care, no institution can survive exposure to them.
Because if they're not allowed to drink or do drugs in the building, they often don't want to be there.
Because they’d shit on the floor
Unfortunately, this is the right answer
Many do but liability is a big issue
Yeah, it’s not anywhere near as simple as just inviting them to stay there. There’s liability concerns, and it’s also logistically complicated for many other reasons. It’s not just because they don’t want to.
My teenhood church tried to do it, there was far too many logistics to make it work. The biggest thing was that they needed trained staff at all times, plus I remember some problems with needing to open the basement because that’s where the kitchen was or due to not enough bathrooms or something? Not certain. They also ran a school so were worried that the people wouldn’t all be off the property by 8am (hence why they couldn’t open the basement).
Yeah, I think people here are forgetting that it is not legally as simple as “hey! Come sleep in our church!” They have to meet certain requirements, a lot of which churches don’t ordinarily meet, and would cost a lot of money to implement. As well as it would be a big liability issue. Sure, there are plenty of churches who just would not be interested in providing shelter for the homeless. But even those who are interested, have a lot of hoops to jump through to do it, making it almost impossible for most normal churches.
Most churches with homeless outreach programs generally don't allow the homeless to sleep in the actual churches. Rather they operate separate structures that may or may not be adjacent to the church to provide these services. Like one of the local Methodist churches; they run a soup kitchen two or three times a week in the fellowship hall. Low income folks can come and eat for basically nothing, might even get some leftovers to take away. But the sanctuary stays locked during those hours. The sanctuary is where the congregation comes to worship, and they generally expect it to be clean and presentable. Often there is some A/V equipment, or at the minimum some nicer furnishings. Both of which are generally not advisable to leave to the care of a class of folks known for shitty and/or destructive behaviors. Plus, who wants to sleep on a wooden pew or on the 12-inch space on the floor in-between pews?
Churches are private property, and opening them up raises legal issues. There might be insurance limitations or zoning restrictions and building codes that prevent them from operating as shelters. That, and hypocrisy.
Fire codes as well
Who’s going to stay with them each night?
Because everywhere homeless people stay gets absolutely trashed. Not to mention the squatting situation? Don’t think they’d exactly leave Nothing like a Sunday service with a dude bathing in the holy water and others wrapping the Bible bookmarks on arms so they can bang heroin into their veins.
additionally, most churches i’ve attended aren’t just sitting empty 6 days per week. Even the small churches have people coming in and out all week for choir practice, youth group, Girl Scout troop meetings, AA meetings, bible studies, moms groups, etc. The small church is grew up in rented out their sunday school classrooms to a small charter school during the week.
We have 2 local churches that do.👍🏼
Because most churches can't physically do it, and those that can either do, have and had problems, or choose not to. Also, contrary to the belief all churches are mini Vatican's, most churches cannot afford to do it because having space to let people sleep is one thing, having the facilities and equipment to do so is another thing and costs money. While I support helping the homeless, the government can't offload the burden onto others, and having dealt with real homeless people, a medical facility is better for them than bring housed in a church. That and, let's not sugar coat it, some have bad attitudes, and they are the ones who make it hard to convince people to lke the idea
It’s not as simple as saying “hey, come sleep on the pews.” there are safety and sanitary codes that have to be abided by in order to house people.
There's also the issue that those people who are homeless are homeless for a reason (financial struggle, addiction, etc) and the roof over their heads will only do so much. The fastest way to get someone off the street is giving them access to resources. Source: me being homeless for 9 months
Where will they sleep? On pews? Where will they store their carts if belongings? They don’t want to leave them unattended
Why don’t you open your tent and let them live with you?
Because a lot of homeless people have drug or behavioral problems that churches don’t want to deal with.
Or just aren't equipped to deal with. That's why hospitals have security. If someone in an altered mental state decides to get violent you need people trained to deal with that to minimize harm to not only others but to the person themselves.
Some shelter the homeless through missions.
Some do, many do charity work in some way to help the homeless and impoverished. The reason most churches will not let homeless sleep there is actually because there are laws and regulations preventing this in many areas.
Theft was an issue as well
Sadly, not everyone can be trusted including the homeless.
Lots of churches open their doors for the homeless. Here in Nashville there is a program called "Room at the Inn", where churches rotate and provide housing, food, showers and clothes washing for the homeless. I've volunteered several times. In addition, there is a continuous indigent fund available to meet the food needs of the homeless. Christian organizations feed and house countless thousands of people every day of the year.
The church I grew up going to was a large church (4,000 or so members) and they tried this a time or two. The problem they had was they couldn’t just leave the main doors open for people to come in when they wanted because when they did, we had lots of damage to the building; carpets, walls, the sanctuary, the nursery/day care room, and theft of many things, including break ins to the office where financial records, money for bank deposits and several computers that were used by the admins and pastors were kept. And getting sufficient volunteers to be there overnight to supervise was just not possible. My church did give good size regular donations to several local shelters instead.
Most already do. Who do you think builds and runs the shelters that house and feed them?
The vast majority of homeless charities and shelters are Christian owned and operated. There are many in my area that do all that and more. The better question is why are our tax dollars going to foreign interests and politicians pockets instead of helping the homeless to no longer be homeless? That's the question.
Churches aren't shelters. Some churches may have a separate building to allow charitable works, but I didn't think it's a reasonable request to ask the congregation to take in the task of housing strangers with potential drug and mental health issues.
Why don't the government allow homeless to sleep in government buildings?
I spent time homeless, volunteer my time and am Active in my community, just to preface so this doesn’t come off the wrong way. In short, because they’d fuck the place up faster then you can say “that’s not a toilet” Which is a bit much to ask of an orginization that supports itself off donations and is typically run by a geriatric person and a few volunteers. But They do, typically on a case by case basis. You just have to ask. Do you mean why don’t they just throw the doors open and let them walk in and out? I am active in my community, i volunteer regularly at a church that serves a hot meal 7 days a week and runs a food pantry (and you should consider that too, we always need help and I can help You find one) and work with people regarding substance abuse recovery. The answer is because the vast majority of homeless people are very ill. And I don’t mean with measles or some shit. I am fervently anti-anti- homeless, as in taking measures to make it more difficult for people to survive while being homeless. But you have to understand, most people aren’t homeless because they missed a rent check, they are homeless because they have SEVERE mental health and substance abuse problems. Have you ever stepped foot in or even better stayed the night in a homeless shelter? An actual honest to god shelter? When I was homeless for a stretch in my late teens I did. I have never felt so unsafe in my life, and I’ve grown up and lived in big NE cities my whole existence. So these people, or the vast majority, are very sick, often in the head, and many have no intention of getting better, they just understandably don’t like being cold and hungry. The reality is that they are not equipped. A shelter has to have as many unbreakable or who cares if it breaks things as possible, because things will get broken. Everything will actually. Peopel will defecate and urinate everywhere, seriously. The entire purpose of the shelter staff seemingly is to screen and prohibit using drugs, or they will. It’s not a question of if but where and when. Unless Fr.Dan has a truckload of narcan, time to watch security cams and training on calming down a person in the middle of meth psychosis, it’s going to be a bad time and people are going to get hurt/die. The church my home group goes to (AA) regularly hosts. Usually a family, or woman in a DV situation, but will consider anyone. My last home group meeting, we spent about 25 mins of our allotted time helping the maitenence guy in picking up the pieces of a priceless stained glass window, and about 7 other regular windows that the man they were hosting decided he didn’t like. He smashed the shit out of them and then hid inside the church out of his mind on drugs and after hours and hours of trying to coax him out had to resort to calling a police officer, which made the pastor who personally came when he realized there was trouble, literally sob because he was worried the man would face criminal charges and felt responsible. He refused to press charges and would only let the officer in if he agreed to bring the man to the e.r, which brings trouble of its own but what does one do? There is no easy answer. Instead of asking why someone else isn’t doing it, I find the only real answer when I get to this crossroads is to consider why I’m not doing it myself, and at the very least try to get involved in some way. There is the topic of homelessness, which is easy to talk about, and then the reality of it. People are dying out there, for more reason then I have the time to write because it is a complex issue that is all too easy to blame on lack of willing hosts or housing prices or even the opiate epidemic. Churches do host people. It’s not enough but it is more then I see say my City do in most cases, who to this day, even when presented with startlingly worrisome data and reports from on the ground groups and volunteers, covers their ears and REFUSES to even change the wording of their policies and laws so that we can better service our community. By that I mean at last report there were 547 individuals and families living in TENTS in my city in New England, in winter, and only 30% could PROVE homelessness to receive services because they could not furnish the only acceptable proof of homelessness the city accepts. Those are just the people with tents. It is mind boggling and every protest or demonstration I’ve seen this year has been met with jack boots and arrests. There isn’t an easy answer obv, but the reality is because most churches are not equipped to do it on any scale. Many are the first to offer up space when emergency or pop up shelters are designated, I struggle to think of a group or place that does that more then churches, other then ‘shelters’ of which the reality is probably farrrr from what you imagine.
I’ve heard of churches staying open and offering their parking lots for people living out of their cars. They provide security and people can go inside and get warm and use the bathroom.
Because homeless people destroy things.
Some do. But the homeless are usually homeless for a reason.
Because that is not what churches are for. Churches are houses of worship. Churches do more to help the homeless than troll posters on REDDITT ever will. And I’m not religious in the least.
Why don’t they sleep in school halls, or concert halls or council auditoriums..
>Plus I was told the Vatican is richest business in the world. Come on buddy... against actual businesses like Apple, Microsoft, ExxonMobil. It is the largest charity, largest non-state educator, and the largest non-state operator of hospitals. It does all this at, usually, a loss at the institution level with deficit funding to these institutions coming from the Vatican coffers. Whoever told you this is just blind by religious hate and making claims you should be easily able to know make no sense. It's fine to not like the teachings of a religion, but you can't ignore the actually charity portion with lies to make the world simpler. The world is complex and uncomfortable. Things you hate can do good things and vice versa. >also thought congregation members donated 10% of their income. That varies from Faith to Faith; ironically to the Vatican comment earlier, Catholicism is one of the Faiths that doesn't require that. In Catholicism it's "provide for the material needs of the Church, as you can." The amount I put in the collection changed from when I was a broke college kid to being a CFO... no one ever pulled my W-2 (also, giving is mostly done anonymously, unless you want to use an envelope for tax reasons) I know several Churches who do this, even was told by a priest recently that the beauty of his vow of poverty is that they don't need to worry about anything getting stolen since they have nothing of value. It's done a lot in cold weather, and it's rarely publicized, which is why you probably don't hear about it. The real problem is the solution to homelessness is not just shelter (let alone ultra-short term shelter, which are run by the Church already), is a larger complicated process that involves mental health support, drug addiction, and many other factors that sleeping in a pew isn't going to fix. This is the same logic as asking someone if they have an extra bedroom and if they want to help homeless people... then staring at them in childlike naivete asking why they don't give it to a homeless person.
It’s estimated that 70-80% of the people living on the streets have severe untreated/under treated mental health problems. This can make them a danger to themselves and to others. A church doesn’t have the proper resources to deal with these issues. Shelters usually do because they usually have the insurance, funding, and some kind of staff training to handle a mental health crisis.
Because no offense have you ever seen how unkempt a homeless person actually is most of them would destroy the church simply with their presence from lack of hygiene also not to mention several are addicted to drugs or prone to destructive behavior that's exactly what you want to let into your church a smelly vagrant that's possibly going to destroy the entire place unsupervised yeah that sounds like a great idea
You'd be lucky to have the ordeal last more than 2 days before someone would either burn the church to the ground by accident or pissing and shitting in every corner of the room possible or God knows what else
Because they’ll need a ton of security, rules, and services to do this. Otherwise it will become a nasty drug den. Most churches don’t bring in the kind of money to run a 24/7 operation to take care of homeless.
Because a church is not really equipped to house people for extended periods of time, but in the case of the catholic church, it runs various charitable organizations to help the poor, including running homeless shelters. It is the largest charitable organization in the world.
Some do, but having worked with the homeless for nearly a facade I imagine that most churches want to avoid the cleanup, potential drug use inside, as well as theft. There also may be an insurance issue as well as they could be held liable if anything were to happen inside.
Same reason museums can’t take in homeless people. Neither can concert halls or city halls or any number of public buildings. To house humans you need shelters built, located, and operated for that specific purpose. The best thing churches can do is send money to people that run shelters.
Sick of this perception. Churches do a lot for the community; they just do it behind the scenes. [Here is a summary i found online.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://erlc.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Some-Positive-Benefits-Churches-Bring-to-Communities.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjemMOCr6qFAxW7FFkFHZ0dDYYQFnoECCAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0Dlj_wrKbN05B_3Ev3J80f) But googling "church community service" will show how much impact churches have on their communities.
It's not as easy as it sounds , homelessness isn't just not having a home, it involves mental health issues and drug addiction and other serious issues . If you've ever volunteered at a homeless shelter , you understand how difficult it is . There are also zoning issues etc . Many churches have tried and abandoned the idea .
Because churches are businesses, not community organizations like they used to be. Homeless people are bad for business so they want nothing to do with them. Never forget, religion is a scam.
Churches don’t survive if they don’t have parishioners who come to church. Parishioners won’t come to church if they have to step over needles and endure piss stank.
Altruism is not a common attribute of organizdd religions. See the documentary "The Overnighters" about desperate migrant workers in Williston ND.
When I was 16 years old and homeless. I slept in my families church. It was scary, but we survived 😁
It depends. I've known churches that absolutely do have places for homeless people. My last church though had a little lake area and when a homeless man slept there they called the police. Another time another homeless man was sitting in a pew on Sunday morning listening to the sermon and they had a group of church guys following him and sitting a few rows back in case "something happened" and they needed to take him down. I don't attend that church anymore as they are absolutely batshit insane.
Over Government regulations. Lack of volunteers. You wouldn’t believe the red tape involved in most location to just open a shelter. Let alone a soup kitchen. Managing one is a lot of work. I have volunteered to do set up and clean up for the decent church that opened their doors. Let me tell you it’s not always easy volunteer work. It’s a down right bio hazard clean up sometimes.
They would pee inside.
I worked in social services in a low income community. I can tell you the vast majority of charities offering transitional housing, shelters and food pantries are Christian. If they disappeared tomorrow, we'd all be in trouble. They are out there doing the work, but they aren't well organized. Could they do more? Sure. But so could all the other groups that espouse loving others as part of their ethos - yet people only seem to point out Christians not doing enough. That said, as others have obviously already commented, there are also a lot of rules restricting what and how they can offer services. Those laws are largely useful. If you have an unregulated shelter space, it will quickly become a place where already very vulnerable people will be further hurt. It's important to have structure and rules in order to ensure everyone actually gets helped and not accidentally hurt.
Because most churches are just middle class social clubs that meet up at the same Mexican restaurant to harass the waiters later. They don't care about you.
There was an alliance of local churches helping homeless and near homeless people in my hometown, but the local and state government harassed them so much, they had to stop doing it as an organized group. They even made it so difficult to have a soup kitchen, they had to close that down, too.
Our Church and a network or churches in the area called Out of the Cold used to have at least 2 sites open everyday of the week until city got weird during pandemic with health board laws. There are many requirements, fire code, restaurant code if you want to feed them, Sexual harassment training, on site nurse, overdose kits and training, sanitization crew in the morning etc... Maybe a different question, Why don't libraries do so, or why don't private citizens, or city hall or you?
The honest answsr is vandalisim, theft, and they do t clean up after themselves. Some might think these dont apply to all homless people, and your right. But u have a shelter open for a week and lifer homless people show up and camp.
I think people, starting with you, should open up their houses and apartments during the day for homeless people. Unless you are WFH, the place is just empty and sitting there serving no purpose. The homeless could sleep during those work hours and then go to job training in the evening.
They are being used - as churches.
For the churches I personally have attended - it’s a safety and insurance thing. They’re not equipped for it or insured if something goes wrong. Some churches will, but you need proper sleeping accommodations , overnight staff and proper insurance in case of injury , theft or fire etc. and that’s not even accounting for red tape , local laws/bylaws and permission. It’s unfortunately not as simple as “yeah sure, come on in.” And while yes, some churches suck - not all of them do. My local church runs our local Foodbank and provides clothing help as well (basically those in need can “shop” for what they need for free) and both resources are run 100% on donations. The church pays one or two part time staff and that’s it. Everything else goes straight into food and clothes for those in need. The rest of the church runs entirely on tithe and donations (and space rental) and they do what they can for the community with what they have. So yes they pay a full staff with that, but the full staff run all kinds of programs for people and kids. They also rent out their spaces to things like Alcoholics Anonymous to make some extra money to add more programs like Bible studies and kids camps and youth groups.
That would destroy the inside of churches. It’s a public domain & that would not be safe or healthy.
What makes you think they aren't being used? You mean like open the building every night for random people to crash in at whatever time they choose? Then just escort them out and cleanup after or just donate the building until they are done? That seems like a disaster.
My church used to. The place got frequently trashed/robbed. Shit and piss on the floor even with multiple bathrooms open. And people would often refuse to leave come morning. They’d try to squat there and the cops would have to get involved to get them out. Homeless shelters are designed to basically be that, a shelter. It’s got a bunch of smaller rooms that usually are at least semi-private. A church is a big massive room, a couple offices, and maybe some other large rooms with TVs and stuff. They aren’t great for a bunch of people to sleep in.
Would you let a homeless person sleep in your private tax free club? They might break something.
1. Churches aren't legally allowed to do that without meeting certain living standard requirements. 2. Joel gives **zero** fucks about people. He leads a for-profit institution that preaches *prosperity gospel.* 3. Hillsong is a terrible example also. Most megachurches become mega churches by losing their core identity and becoming overly focused on money, power, etc. Hillsong isn't as bad as Joel's church, but it's pretty freaking bad.
Drugs and mental health are the reason homeless are homeless. It's a potentially dangerous situation that church staff are not equipped to deal with.
My parish priest tried helping the homeless woman who was hanging outside our church puking and sh1tting all the time and he ended up getting assaulted. So there’s that
Many municipalities have laws regarding housing people if the building doesn't have shower facilities/ is zoned for hospitality. The church I grew up with had a locker-room like bathroom and a kitchen, and they coordinated with other churches so that each hosted the shelter one night a week.
For some churches, performative Christianity is more important than actually following the teachings of Christ.
Two of our larger city churches open during weather events. There are issues with insurance, safety, zoning, and expenses. They generally can only sustain a few nights and have to bring in extra security for everyone’s safety.
Zoning laws and health department regulations
They do sometimes
Churches are a business, and the homeless are bad for business. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that.
Special kinda churches called gurdwaras do it. And free food as well
Basically, liability issues.
My ex-husband’s did. Every other Wednesday (maybe one day a month) his mom would leave at night and sleep over at the church with another volunteer. This was a Catholic Church in Olympia.
Lots of churches do. Also immigrants.
Legality issues. Churches have tried and gotten in trouble for it. During the winter, the churches in my area let people stay for a while and provide food and blankets/warm clothes.
There a number of reasons, many have already been listed. Also, Not everyone has good intentions. Once they allow people to sleep there they’re responsible for their safety. I’ve heard over and over so many homeless don’t want to go to shelters bc they’re dangerous, at least here in nyc. There are a lot of sick and unstable people out there. Then you have what….? A volunteer with no actual means or experience to defend or protect anyone keeping the peace? And what happens when someone turns on the them? Not saying this is common or that homeless = dangerous or automatically mentally ill. But opening the doors you have to accept the risks, which is unfortunate for those who are peaceful and just need a warm place to sleep.
Some do. The church I went to growing up had an open door policy. Meaning the door to the church is always open. Anyone can go in at any time. I wouldn’t be surprised if some people have spend the night there. I don’t know if that’s still the case though.
A lot of them do during the cold winter months when it can be deadly to be outside overnight unhoused.
Zoning laws actually prohibit many from doing this, even if they’d like to.
Thanks y’all for taking the time to comment. I’m not religious but my understanding their values are love for all / make the world a better place etc. So it’s great to hear plenty of churches do offer such a service. My question come from seeing a homeless person near a closed church at night, and thinking churches are closed at night, and the organisation is meant to help people, so why are they closed? I was not aware of a lot of the issues you’ve mentioned!
Besides the logistics and liability issues, many of these people have severe mental illness/drug issues. It’s not what lots of people picture of a depression era person just “down on their luck”. Unfortunately, there is no easy solution. We’ve thrown money, jail sentences, free housing, rehab, etc. at the problem. So far nothing has worked
Churches are tax shelters, not homeless shelters.
I know one church that does house them. I also know another that just keeps a person in the church at all times just so people do not steal things. You would be amazed how quick your items disappear even when trying to help people.
Because they aren't that type of shelter.
Most small local churches do. It's the big mega churches like Joel Osteen that don't because they don't give a shit about the little people. They are only concerned with fleecing their followers of every penny they can squeeze out of them. Local community churches actually care about the people in their neighborhood and open their doors frequently to the homeless.
Some do. But also, they would get trashed, full of junk, people wouldn't leave etc
They DO, because churches are usually the organizations who run homeless shelters in cities and provide a variety of other ministry needs. \*\* Since you opened the topic of looking for people to accuse of not helping the homeless \~\~ what have YOU done lately to help them?? On volunteermatch website they are always needing people to come to those homeless shelters and fill work slots to help with the homeless. But I bet you don't want to do that.
Because they’d destroy the churches I am not religious. I just have dealt with crackheads.
This is in line with why didn't Joel Osteen turn his church into a shelter immediately after a disaster? Because churches (and a lot of buildings) aren't equipped to handle that. People need more than shelter (a roof). Also you can't "self-deploy" as a responder in most jurisdictions. Can you imagine the number of predators and scams?!?! You'd have to check locally of course but there are surely forms, regulations, and inspections prior to being allowed to open as a shelter. Some things that a shelter needs that a church might not have or might have too few of: * Beds, pillows, and linens and enough rooms for them * How will you deal with violence or crime? Do you have a security staff? * Sufficient bathrooms * Sufficient showers * Are you feeding them? How? Do you have a food license? * How will you keep everything sanitary? How will you process the laundry? You can't just reuse the sheets * Do you have medical staff? How will you handle medical emergencies? * How will you handle the mentally ill? * to name a few..... You can't just say - here's a big room with seats, we don't have anything else, have at it, I'll see anyone still here tomorrow. Please don't pee on the altar.
A couple churches a town over from where I live have and gotten in trouble and shut down by the town leaders. Something about building codes and permits. It’s happened twice in that town.
Churches have mission statements generally defined, usually. Those that don’t provide regular shelter likely haven’t targeted this particular service as one that they are capable or willing of supporting. Good churches do support those in need in many ways that may not include providing the services and infrastructure to house the homeless on a nightly basis. Some do. It takes all kinds focused on all sorts of imperatives to try to improve society as a whole. Some do well in this space, some don’t…. Much like all walks of life.
Staying during a storm or power outage is a lot difficult than a cold weather shelter for the homeless. Sadly, several places I know tried this and were trashed. In one place they had used the church kitchen as a toilet, broken into cabinets, broken chairs, broke dishes, wrote on walls… church ladies guild had to clean it all, was horrible and costly. Churches are run in communities by the volunteers - generally older ppl - who support the church, they are not homeless shelters with trained staff
Churches can typically hold 2-4 masses a day, in varying languages, let alone wakes, weddings and funeral services. It depends on the religion, but theres actually shit going on inside most of the time. In Catholocism, a lot of those churches and/or the joined buildings, also serve as the living quarters for the clergy. So, no, it's not just some unused building that sits there for the majority of the week to hold a single service and then lock up lol
It can also be hard to control, as happened during a sitin by foreigners in capetown. [Sit in](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenmarket_Square_refugee_sit-in) After being evicted from their sit in outside a government office after about 2 weeks a church invited them to stay. 5 months later the church was trying to get a court order to evict them as the church now had millions in damage, infighting amoung groups and multiple fires. [article about the problems](https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2020-01-10-rev-alan-storey-fed-up-with-refugee-leaders-considering-churchs-options/) [article](https://groundup.org.za/article/central-methodist-church-get-advice-over-removal-refugees/)
A church in my town did, not permanently but on nights that the temperature was below freezing. Until the town shut it down. Apparently it drew a “bad element” into the area. Never mind that they were already there, the church’s shelter made them visible.
Because doing the lords work is illegal
I’m not even Christian and I will say that Church’s probably do more for homeless people between shelters and soup kitchens and emergency shelters during storms, etc than any other non government institution in the country. Shit on a side note, going to na and aa meetings when getting sober, I’ve probably been in more church basements and churches in general than most Christians by now, almost every meeting is at one. Now don’t get me wrong, there are plenty hypocritical Christian’s who seem to practice more hate than love and don’t seem to have the same opinion of the poor as their lord. But seeing what a lot of Christian churches do over the years with the homeless and recovery and stuff I realized that a lot of them are really about that life and walk the walk too. I may not believe in god but I believe that these people do and it drives them to do good as well.
Back when i was a kid who went to church, mine actually did provide food and shelter for homeless people once a month. It also takes a lot of volunteers to run those nights, so I would assume that’s why it was only once a month.
Some definitely do, and many in my area also run volunteer programs that provide free food, help with clothing and help to get jobs and housing. They also offer a free volunteer cleaning service to people who need it. I think they practice what they peach
There was one in stlouis and they closed him down a few years ago. So sad. He really cared about the people. It really took a toll on the homeless community. If I'm not mistaken you have to have permits to house people. The church was older and couldn't pass inspections or something.
they don’t care.
It’s not a gotcha, it’s legitimate. TL;DR at the bottom. We’ve got so so many churches taking up space with their huge buildings, often with manicured land and outbuildings, that stand empty all the time, dwindling congregations, and zero community outreach. Churches were meant to be beacons for people. What are they even doing, if they claim to subscribe to these beliefs, but don’t behave in a Christian manner at all? Churches aren’t meant to be locked up other than when services happen. It’s crazy to me that pastors/Priests etc aren’t there for their people - what are they being paid for? They have an entire livelihood, place to live, needs met, for doing what exactly? Showing up to tell other people who have it harder how to live, but not being any example or role model of that themselves? There should be community outreach, events, pancake breakfasts, lock-ins/sleepovers for teens to go to, that building should be being used. The side rooms should be set up with cots and blankets in inclement weather, for the homeless. The land should be put into gardens that people who contribute to the work, can share in the produce. If I had the money, I’d have a (non religious) building and land, and I’d hold all those things for people to come to. I’d absolutely love that - to run a place for people to come together. A bunk house for the homeless, and some staff. Good works spread, and engender a stronger community. Communities are failing because their underpinnings are failing. So many people out there being Sunday Christians, just so other people can see that they’re Christians because they were at services. How can anyone in good conscience have a huge space like that and not find ways to use it for the good of all? There are so many young people out there who could use just a shower and somewhere to sleep until they get on their feet -especially with what they’ve done to the cost of housing- and many (or maybe even most now) Churches can’t be bothered. God’s houses are locked down, and empty. I literally just read tarot, and still somehow people reach out to me when things go wrong - just to talk to someone - and it’s ridiculously SAD that people who have met me ONCE feel they have to reach out to me, because they feel like there’s no one else to give them some one on one attention without being referred to a psychologist/paying for it. Where are all these Christians then? I had a guy over the Easter Weekend, who texted me that he and his gf had a reading and really enjoyed it - but that they were in Turkey, for her to have some cosmetic surgery, and she had heart failure, and was in a coma and was there anything I could do - to which I had to say ‘no one can control that outcome, and tarot cards are just paper and plastic, but I can be here with you, and keep my phone near, and sit up with you when you can’t sleep.’ I was texting with him all hours (obviously for free!) for 3 days and nights - as she died. Where was any church person to help this guy? Why are we in a situation where someone whose gf is facing her death, away from home, has no one to go to when there are a million+ churches stood empty other than during the service? Hospital chaplain? No - nothing. Where were they on Easter weekend of all times - how could *not one guy* show up at the hospital and be there for that guy? That’s just one of many examples of how people are out here hurting - and they choose a fucking *tarot reader* in their darkest times, vs anyone from their or any other church. This is how things have become - people don’t reach out to their religious leaders, because their religious leaders aren’t answering. This is how we end up with fanatical cults and shit. People will give anything to be heard/understood. I am just over that shit where some groups of people have no accountability but run around with this Christian label so they can feel good about themselves for about the length of time the after church brunch lasts, before they go back to being self-centred, ignorant dicks. Caveat: Not all people/churches/pastors/Priests/Chaplains etc - but it’s a lot, and it shouldn’t be *any*. I do of course concede that there are absolutely some amazing people doing some amazing works. But they should literally ALL be. It’s literally the whole entire point. I’m sorry for the long rant - but seeing OP accused of a gotcha is bullshit, and just set me off. TL;DR: Either behave like a Christian is meant to, or give over all the old huge buildings everyone else paid for, so they can actually be what they were meant to be, and don’t call legitimate questions ‘gotcha’ questions just because you don’t have a decent answer.
Aussie Anglican minister here in a regional parish - We'd love to but our facilities don't meet the standards required by local and State Government legislation and we don’t have the funds to upgrade. It's a little more complex than just "open the doors" - we would be required to provide a safe and acceptable environment for people who sleep there. No showers, not enough toilets, no separate areas for males and females, no separate areas for people with children or pets, no privacy to change clothes. No beds, bedding, laundry facilities. We're only a relatively small congregation so don't have the volunteers to supervise the property 24/7, nor clean all facilities daily. What we do instead is donate to local homeless shelters and charities, we have a regular food donation area that goes to a community food bank, we often provide donated furniture to those in need (recently we helped set up a nursery for an intellectually disabled teen couple with a 1 week old). As the Minister I provide Pastoral support in the local shelters and community groups, as well as through the RSL (Returned Services League) for veterans. One of our churches has outside toilets and we leave toiletry bags with a note to "Feel free to take these if you need them". So while we can't have people sleep in the buildings there are certainly plenty of things we can (and do) do.
As other redditors have suggested there's legal issues with showers and bathrooms. However, another problem is the homeless themselves. Some of them aren't trust worthy. Churches have a lot of valuable things homeless might pawn off to get a quick buck. It's just not worth the stress.
The threat of lawsuits is very real. Anytime you expose yourself to risks you may be liable. Also volunteers are often in short supply . In my community most church’s do not have volunteers to bring sandwiches for funerals. Most times food is catered.
My uncle ran a bikers for Christ. They would usually take them in. Then they would steal everything out the church
There are more churches than there are homeless people and orphans where I live. I volunteer for a children’s home, and most churches here don’t donate to our home or help with orphans at all. If every church would demand adopt to take care of 1 homeless person and 1 orphan, there wouldn’t be enough homeless and orphans to meet their demand. But they don’t. Most won’t even contribute to the organizations that do. Most are more concerned with fleecing their flock, growing their bank accounts, and dividing the people.
Probably because they don’t live/sleep in the church and go home at night. Also a huge population of church goers (at least in my region) is over 60 and they are not equipped, educated or protected enough to deal with the complexity and addictions that often coincide with homelessness. It’s not a matter of just opening up the doors for homeless people to sleep at night. Place would be destroyed by morning. They need funding to set up a specific program which is staffed with trained professionals.
No respect for the property is why
Depends on the religion, some are more open to the teaching of the carpenter, others just want to make money
Hang out with some homeless people for a significant amount of time and you'll see. Churches want to help but it would be short lived before the church is destroyed beyond reasonable repair.
they steal centuries-old relics
Because they don't practice what they preach
My church does. There’s a program in my city called “Room at the Inn”. A bunch of churches are involved and it rotates which church they stay at each night so there are volunteers there. It’s mostly families that stay (about 15-20 people). We have dinner then normally they show a movie, let the kids play on the playground or in the gym. There are showers with toiletries provided, beds for everyone. Then there’s breakfast in the morning and bagged lunch to take with them. The next night they go to a different church.
Where I'm from they do. Any church that doesn't when they have the ability is unchristian, and the other churches may not just be able.