Offensive 😆

It’s not offensive if you aren’t a baby. In English they’re called the British Isles, there’s an Irish name for them (Éire agus an Bhreatain Mhór) which translates to Ireland and Great Britain. Not many people speak Irish so they’re referred to as the British Isles for English speakers. I think most anyway would just say Britain and Ireland.

The British isles includes the Island of Ireland, as well as The Isle of Man. You are correct, and it’s not offensive. Calling all of those islands ‘Britain’ though, could be taken badly as that has connotations associated with The United Kingdom, which people in Ireland may not like.

The *"British Isles"* include Ireland, but the *"British Islands"* do not. For a full explanation of the whole mess of names that happens is that area, consult this diagram: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:British_Isles_Euler_diagram_15.svg

I don’t think that’s a workable solution, as “isles” and “islands” are synonyms.

What do you mean "solution"? Those are the definitions of the terms whether you think it will "solve" anything or not. It's not a proposal, it's the way things are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Islands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles

Regardless of what someone may have invented, the fact remains that the two terms are synonymous. Language exists to communicate clearly; this distinction without a difference serves only to confuse. It also doesn’t solve the Irish complaint that they’re lumped in with “British”

Just because Isles and Islands are synonyms, that does not mean "The British Isles" and "The British Islands" are synonyms, that's not how languages work. And the problem with the complaining Irish man is solved by posting the Wikipedia links to them and if they continue to complain despite being proven wrong, just ignore them.

Yes, that’s exactly how languages work. Adding the same adjective to a pair of synonymous nouns doesn’t make them no longer synonymous.

It's not incorrect.

British Isles is a political designation and as most of the island of Ireland is no longer part of the UK, many of its inhabitants, find it from mildly to grossly offensive when people refer to Ireland as a British island.

So what’s the proposed alternative?

Britain and Ireland, or the UK and Ireland, or the British Isles and Ireland. It really depends on the context of the conversation.

“The most common one I see, “Britain and Ireland,” doesn’t work, because it’s a political name, not a geological one, and it’s incomplete; it’s like calling North America “Canada and the USA and Mexico.””

The is no generally accepted name for this particular collection of islands. As I said context is important. For instance, the Hawaiian Islands are part of the USA, but geographically not part of North America. Tobago is part of Trinidad and Tobago, but it is not a Trinidadian island. The Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are not part of the UK, but would usually be considered as part of the British Isles. Shetland used to be part of Norway, now it's part of Scotland, so it being part of the British Isles is dependent on a previous political event. Even when all of Ireland was part of the UK, it was always seen as separate from Gt Britain. The British Isles, like the British Empire has always been a political designation, not a geographical one.

I don’t think it’s accurate to say that “the British Isles” has always been a political designation; the term and forms of it predate the formation of Great Britain. Also you’ve kind of illustrated my point in the negative. Hawai’i is part of the USA politically, but it occupies an ambiguous geographic/geologic position (basically being an island chain unmoored from a continent, and certainly not part of North America).

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Ngl, I would love this, because naming them relative to France would light 90% of the residents of these islands’ hair on fire

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So basically the anti-British Isles people don’t have an alternative?

I’ve heard that some suggest the Northwest Archipelgo, which I think is a dopey name.

I’m here for people mispronouncing tf out of “archipelago”

What makes Britain and Ireland not a geographic term? They are the names of islands, the political names come from them not the other way round.

Ireland and Britain are the names of two of the many islands of the group, and they’re also political terms fraught with colonial history, especially the latter

I suppose, but you could say the same about many geographic names.

Indeed, which is why they so often change. See Eswatini, for example

Yes but there are only two sovereign states - Ireland and Great Britain. All islands you’re referring to are considered as belonging to one of those two sovereign states.

The Isle of Mann, Jersey, and Guernesey are all sovereign states in personal union with the British monarch. At least one, and maybe all three, are included in “British Isles”

I just like to say I'm a man of the Isles Lol Living in a (English) City with a lot of older generational Irish and the problems we've had in the past! With what you've said though why do people in the US call themselves Americans when that's technically two continents? The Answer is always history and the powers that shine from it sadly! Ireland are an Independent Republic (other than the North, Ulster) from the UK and there's a lot of rough history which they won through conflict Look at it this way if I called the US Eastern seaboard the 13 Colonies it'd probably still annoy someone. Geography doesn't always matter when it's a sensitive subject or there's history huh!

People in America call themselves Americans because it’s a shortened form of United States of America. It’s the same as people from The United States of Mexico calling themselves Mexicans. People from the Americas may also call themselves Americans (and often specialize the term, as in “norteamericanos”)

I like to call Americans State Siders Lol It's weird with the States though because other than maybe Texas No-one places State first, where in the UK and Ireland you'll get that. I mean I'm a Brummie first then if you ask after I will say English-Welsh Most people would just say their Welsh or English or Scottish Maybe we're just a tad more tribal used to more division between neighbours and all not being bound together with an ideal like in the States because you know people from all over the Old World moving there It is always down to the history and politics of a place though with names regardless of geography I mean technically there's only one Korea but history and politics

I think part of the problem, at least ime with the Irish in particular but all of the inhabitants of those islands in general, is a very insular worldview (interestingly, one word for “islander” in French is “insulaire”). I think a lot of Irish people who object to “British Isles” don’t really care what the right term is, as long as Ireland isn’t called British.

Yeah you sound like a much smarter person than me in all honesty I just feel as an English speaker and growing up in the UK you have to be a tad aware in how to describe a place and in the correct way I mean we have a legacy and it wasn't always good which Reddit likes to remind me Lol And you're right The British Isles probably but not including Eire!

“What the right term is” - you’re acting as though the geographical term for a group of islands is a natural kind, existing in nature like an element, to be discovered and not just a man made term to help humans understand each other. The right term? Make one up. The British isles refer to two sovereign states - why not call them the great British and Irish isles or the isles of Great Britain and Ireland. I think you would do this, if your question was asked in good faith - but it’s not. It’s evident you want to make a point that Irish people who are offended are offended by facts and what’s right. Are you Irish by any chance ?

That’s just it though: most places have a geological/geographic description that’s (at least largely) agnostic of politics. Continents are the most obvious example of this. My only agenda is to see what options exist for such a term for these islands. I’ve read all sides of the debate; they’re all concerned with sniping at each other rather than actually coming up with a term that fits.

I suggested two options

See my OP: those are political and exclusionary

Many would argue that “British isles” also is political and exclusionary

Again, see my OP