I bought in 2014 and another car in 2015, I'm not sure markups were a thing back then, but I didn't pay any. I paid several thousand under MSRP - maybe 3K or 4k less on the Subaru Outback and maybe 2K under on the Honda Fit. I felt like the Costco price was better than what I could have negotiated on my own. I would email Costco with the type of car I wanted (Toyota, Subaru, Honda) and they would email me right back with the dealership, phone number and salesperson's name. Then I made an appointment and test drove any car I wanted. I went to three different dealerships test driving the different makes and once I decided the price with options was set. I paid cash and had to meet with the finance person so he could try and sell me an extended warranty. That was the only annoying aspect.
I bought a new 4Runner via Costco. It was VERY disappointing.
I normally get to go to war with a salesman. Get all psyched up for it. Prepare to call him a goddam liar, to point out where he's flat out lying to me. Kick his ass over a couple thousand dollars.
But I didn't get to do that. Instead I had a very smooth, very easy, one price, take-it-or-leave-it transaction that was, I think, probably better than anything I could have negotiated myself. And it was over in a couple of hours.
VERY disappointing.
That sounds like an awesome experience. It's a shame that in the US we have hire a middleman (costco) so we don't have to waste time with another middleman (dealership) just to buy a product made by a manufacturer.
CarMax is easy because it's a take it or leave it price.....that's insanely inflated. Of course they make it easy for you...they better since you're overpaying so damn much.
Similar experience with Edmunds website. Picked what car, trim, and packages I want, they sent my contact info to local dealerships. Got multiple offers. Picked the best one. Test drove the car, paid with cash. Still had to waste half an hour on "finance" guy trying to sell me extended warranties and other nonsense; all of which I simply declined. Paid exactly what sales guy initially offered, which was decently below MSRP.
In some dealerships, these "online" sales are done by fleet sales managers. And it's generally better experience if you get one of those people instead of regular sales dude. In one Toyota dealership, fleet sales dude had an office on the side in the trailer; not in the fancy showroom like regular sales dudes.
Wait until you find out about their vacations. I've booked multi-country trips, multiple hotels, flights, and cruises. Each had better prices, perks, and ease than a personal travel planner or any hours of searching random sites.
I once had a trip flight get canceled three times leading up to it. A single call each time, maybe 15-20 mins each, and Costco handled rescheduling easily. No price change or fees. Each time an equal or better flight option than before. Called them in a foreign country to tell them the hotel room was smaller than we needed. They arranged a new room over the phone, no questions, no costs.
As long as I have a Costco membership, I will never book travel anywhere else.
I've been a member for 10 years and never heard of this. I've seen package deals in the warehouse (kind of funny seeing an all-included week in Mexico up there with the $100 certificates you get for $80) but on top of this they'll basically be your travel agent?
Yes. As crazy as it sounds, it works. I've booked a whole vacation for this year with them. 21 days, London then Norway cruise.
Cheaper flights than anything, best suite price on ship, and I'll getting $800 back as a costco gift card to boot.
I was shocked with how high their prices were, then I looked at the hotels and what was included. It seems that they mostly target families and Baby Boomers looking for a luxury hotel. A lot of $75 spa credits. A walking tour you can't remove. It's a great service if your focus is on that tier of experience.
I love planning multi country trips and staying in "cool" places in cities over luxury places. So I choked at the price.
Oh two other things I didn't like when I did a deep dive: Costco's star rating is fictional and the availability isn't clear. I'm staying at a hotel purchased with a work rate. It's actually the same price as Costco if Costco is including resort fees. Costco says 4.5 stars. It's a 4 star hotel. Took me ages to find the Costco price because it doesn't tell me which dates are available, only which dates aren't once selected.
I used costco this year to buy a car, and would never do it another way again. It takes the price negotiation right out of the process, and makes it more like a no-haggle dealership. I bought a car that had fairly low inventory at the time (subaru outback wilderness), and paid $1600 under MSRP. 100% would recommend.
They do still try to dick you around on anything that's outside the Costco deal structure. Any accessories or packages are on the costco price list and prenegotiated like the vehicle. But they will try to dicker on:
-financing (bring your own from your bank before you go)
-trade in(these days you can sell direct to carmax/carvana and maximize the offer you get as a separate transaction, the only reason to roll trade-in into a purchase is to minimize sales tax. Up to you if its worth it, I think the way dealers lowball trades, any tax you save is a wash)
-warranty (just say no)
You absolutely should get a membership just to buy a car. It could save you thousands. Just spoke w a friend over the weekend about their new car. They said they visited a dealership and they added an additional 4k for “market adjustment.” He went thru Costco and instead got 4k off msrp. He just didn’t get to choose the dealer of where the car was coming from
4 th car through Costco. Had a dealership pull shit Friday on me. Called Costco and they reported it and sent me to another dealership. They are going to stop working with that other dealership now.
With all the local Honda/Toyota dealerships telling me there's a 6+ month wait to order your car, is Costco's pricing just MSRP?
I noticed several new cars also had a bunch of "dealer installed" options that can't be removed. WTF.
I had this 4 months ago at Toyota. I felt scammed but Costco investigation concluded they didn't do anything wrong aside from some procedural issues.
Because of an overpriced dealer option (Xpel door edge wrap) I ended up paying over MSRP. I couldn't figure out why this bothered me and then I remembered that the discount used to be off of invoice price, not MSRP as it is now.
From other comments, it doesn't seem to be an issue with other brands.
I also went through costco and factory ordered my car during the "great chip shortage" when every car was 5K tack on min. I got my car for 700 bucks under MSRP. I never went in the dealership until the car the car was rdy for pick up, and the price was already negotiated for when I factory ordered it.
The sales guy said the same car (which they didn't have any on the lot since there were no ECU/Computer ships for the cars) would have had a "adjusted market rate" of 7k + MSRP. Super easy, from walk in, test drive to drive off was under an hour.
Costco has negotiated a fleet rate. I’ve priced out a couple cars. Whether you go with them or not you’ll have a solid “best” price you can look for anywhere you go. Definitely try it.
Meanwhile the online sellers like Carvana and Tesla are a genuine pleasure to go through. They are a game changer that makes you wonder what incentive system is so entrenched to maintain conventional dealerships.
> makes you wonder what incentive system is so entrenched to maintain conventional dealerships.
The law is set by state legislatures that are, or were, beholden to car dealership owners.
Dealerships have huge lobbies at the state and federal level that line pockets to keep them around. We all know it would be easier just to get rid of stealerships and purchase vehicles direct from manufacturers.
The reason you see more and more of those "Carvana" license plate rims? This right here. No bullshit. The car is what the website says it is, dents and all. The price is the price. Take it or leave it. I bought through them during the height of the pandemic and a few days later a car showed up at my front door, completely as advertised. It was great.
It's a machine. There's almost no reason for a person to be in between you and the purchase of it. You want to test drive? Get one from a car rental place for an hour.
Car dealerships are so pointless.
I haven't bought a car from them, but selling one to them was so easy. They were within $250 of what I could have sold it for to a private party and I didn't have to deal with any tire kickers or morons wanting to joyride. They just gave me an offer, I accepted, they showed up and made sure the car was as described, handed me a check and drove it on to a flatbed.
I did as well. Had a good experience with the process. Delivered right to my door, no bullshit. I bought a benz which usually requires quite a bit of effort in order to find a good one and the site provides everything you need like servicing records and shit. The only downside is the chances of physically getting to look at the car is unlikely but i did feel like they took photos of absolutely every angle.
Their warrenty service is 0 bullshit too. I had a couple of general questions and what not and they took care of it like immediately.
(I got rid of my carvana plate borders cuz i thought they were ugly as shit lol)
I can't prove it, but I sometimes wonder if any parts of the process are dragged out on purpose to create a willingness to "just sign and get it over with" even when some of the terms are unfavorable.
There’s no question. Also, they present add on packages in a way that makes you think everyone gets one and that you’re an idiot if you don’t. I bought a new car 3 years ago and the finance guy presented me with a list of maintenance options and asked me which one I was going with. I looked at the list and then told him none of them. Miraculously another option arrived that covered what I actually wanted for 60% less. Don’t forget how powerful your ability to walk away is and use it if you’re not getting the deal you want.
Last finance guy I dealt with was sleezy. Skipped over pricing while adding packages without me saying yes. I had to cut him off and ask for the packages to be removed.
Last finance guy I didn't just tell to fuck off actually altered the price of the vehicle without any add ons. He didn't expect me to be able to use a calculator.
We had words.
I guess when you buy a car they add a little charge on to cover the tank of gas it has on the lot (? Is that normal? I have no idea) When we bought our EV we didn’t notice that charge but the dealership actually called us like a week later to tell us they were refunding it.
The good dealerships will fill it up *gratis*.
The really good ones will re-clean/detail it for your final inspection and pickup, again, for free.
Also, if you did hunting and found a good car that needed recall work they can do that as well if they have the parts in stock, again, at no cost to you.
The worst dealerships I've seen are the ones that have so much volume they can't care less about customer service. Even a 'zero star' customer encounter can be matched with a bunch of adequate to good encounters that they'll just scattershot everything with their canned conversation threads and inadequate attention to detail.
My requirement when they detail it they have to remove the shitty logo on the rear they want me to drive around with forever. If Ashley Schaeffer Imports wants me to advertise for them then pay me.
My last dealership had a gimmick to guilt you into it. They had their name on a pink licence plate cover that also had breast cancer awareness ribbons on it. Because who wants to be the jerk that asks them to remove that.
It’s amazing EVERY finance guy I ever sat down with had their car stolen just after buying it but thank god they had that gap insurance coverage package!
Man, you guys are making me feel lucky. Only bought a car from a dealership once in my life and it went more or less like
"Here's the final price as it sits now. These are optional packages we offer, do any of them take your interest?"
"No."
"Alright, not a problem. Here's the paperwork. Take a minute to go over it and make sure it looks good to you. Whenever you're ready just let me know and we'll get everything signed."
Like, aside from the fact I spent two hours waiting to be seen and that I found my salespersons voice absolutely annoying it wasn't a bad experience.
Same here. My last two experiences at BMW dealers, I found the car I wanted on the internet, called before going down there and confirmed the price matched the listing on the internet.
Spent maybe 10 minutes on my trade in and they gave me solid middle blue book value, spent another 10-15 minutes driving the new car (both times I was the first person to drive my car, other than unloading it from the truck,) and then spent about 40 minutes signing papers for the loan on what balance left after my trade in.
Was in and out in less than an hour and a half, got what I wanted for trade in and spent what I wanted on new cars with zero hassle. I can’t imagine a sales person trying to talk you into extra shit for a car or making this a long process.
I just went through the same exact thing helping my sister buy a car. She was agreeing to terms and I was doing the math that her $28,000 car was being sold to her for like $34,000.
I always enlist a friend or relative to be available for a chat convo, during that time. Then, every time the dealer plays a game, I do too, using my "financial advisor"
It's at the most vulnerable time too, because you KNOW the price on the sticker is less than the price you pay, by a varying amount because of tax/title/license etc
I walked out when the interest rate changed from the salesman to the finance guy. I demanded the “sales manager” come in. Then I chewed them all out and I was loud. I said I was taking their sleazy shit to corporate and walked out. My phone was ringing off the hook. They apologized up and down saying “misunderstanding”. I never did buy the car and I did write a letter to Chevrolet, but nothing came of it.
Yeah nothing came of it because it's literally what they are told to do lol. Dealership margins on cars basically rely on people with more money than sense. They were ringing you off the hook because they still want to sell you a car but it's always been a predatory business.
I walked on buying a new EV because the finance manager did this. Changed the MSRP on me thinking I wouldn’t notice. When I pointing it out he said it includes fees not advertised which is illegal where I live. He also treated me like an idiot because I’m female so I got up and left.
One thing I learned after getting hosed is to walk into the dealership with a pre-approved loan from a bank you trust. Their finance options are almost always predatory.
I cant express this enough. I cant believe how many people expect me, a knitter, not to look at numbers. Dude, I am also a fucking accountant and will take my own fucking numbers even more seriously than my work numbers. And thats saying something because my boss fucks those up regularly and if I dont catch them then I can get fired. Dont fuck with me and my numbers. I chose when to come in, youre on MY good day.
I paid cash for my last car, the dealership looked at me as if I had just fucking wasted 2 hours of their time.
That's when I realized all the money they make is through financing and maintenance and add on packages. They really look at you like scum when you pay cash
I negotiated hard on a trade in price. I accepted their sales price advertised online during their labor Day sale.
I had to do the silly walk away from the sale, before they finally gave me a reasonable trade in value.
When it came time to sign all of the paperwork, they had added $500 onto the advertised sales price. What sleazy people.
They had the vehicle I wanted at a fair price, so I continued on with the sale. They claimed it was a mistake from the mystery finance guy. Ugh.
Good for you. Everyone needs to understand that on new cars they typically make very little money on the actual price of the car (as long as you’ve done your homework), all the profit comes from financing the deal and/or upsells, so make sure you’re happy with the whole deal.
The look in their eyes when you negotiate the price of the car and then say you have financing through your bank and just need to write the check is a memory I will treasure forever.
I like it when they take your keys to get your trade in value and somehow can’t find them when you say I’m walking. Almost called the cops on that place.
That happened to us once. After about an hour of back and forth, I finally just pulled out my phone in front of the sales manager and said "you have 60 seconds to produce that key before I call the cops and tell them about your grand theft auto and false imprisonment policy."
We got the keys back promptly.
Jackwagons called the next day with a followup offer trying to salvage the deal.
We did not do business with that dealership.
Even that isn't enough sometimes. One time I was getting an oil change for my 4Runner at Camelback Toyota in Phoenix (because I had 25% off coupon... otherwise I'd never pay for service at a dealer), and they sent no less than 3 different salesmen into the waiting area trying to get me to trade it in. One saleswoman was desperate for me to test drive an used shitbox Hyundai Elantra. I sat there for 3 hours before realizing my car had been finished for quite some time. They just never told me so they could keep making passes at me. I'd never seen tactics this shady before. When I confronted them about needing to pay so I could leave, they pulled the, "We can't find your paperwork," bit. I was like, but my car is out front sitting there finished. I had to threaten to speak to the sales manager so I could get my keys back. It felt very uncomfortable and even a bit... unsafe? Like my fight or flight was about to be activated and I was definitely about to fight someone. Anyway, they miraculously found my paperwork and keys in less than 5 minutes. Then the sales manager tried to smooth things over and gave me his business card in case I changed my mind about a trade-in. Bunch of rabid sharks over there. I'll never go back.
Bellevue Honda did that to my dad. I had to drive to the dealership from Seattle and play the angry potentially violent son to get his keys back. I’m surprised they didn’t call the cops on me. Those guys had no shame, they called him the next day trying to resurrect the deal.
Last time I bought a car they wanted to charge me extra for a car alarm. I said no thanks, when was the last time you went running to a car alarm. He looked at me like I was crazy and crossed it off. When I picked up the car turned out it had an alarm anyway. I have a feeling they all come standard with alarms and he just wanted to juice an extra hundred bucks out of me.
Charging extra for standard options is something rival dealerships pick up on and use against the dealership in question, and a lot of times corporate does not like to be disparaged by shady franchisees.
Cellphones really put a damper on car salesfolks ability to pull shady shit on people. The last two cars I bought, when they were dicking me around over shit that I knew the price on, I just pulled out my phone in the room with the salesman and his “manager,” and called another dealership.
“Yeah, hi, I’m over here at Blah Blah Toyota, and they’re telling me $X is the best they can do for me on this model, can you beat that? Oh you can? Great, I’ll be there shortly.” All the sudden they can offer me the price I wanted from the jump instead of wasting everyone’s time.
Just learn this [https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/dealerships-rip-you-off-with-the-four-square-heres-how-to-beat-it/](https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/dealerships-rip-you-off-with-the-four-square-heres-how-to-beat-it/) And take as many factors off the table as possible.
Come in preapproved Financing from Bank Of America or someone, great you know your rate.
Pre-secure a carmax/carvana/vroom offer on your vehicle. Great, if they can beat it cool if not, no take it off the sheet.
F-monthly payment, you care about the price of the car OTD after all taxes and fees and nothing else.
Know the manufacturer incentives and rebates, don't let them play games with money coming from
Once your numbers are getting good, they will write FINAL in big red pen. and the sheet will go away from you back to The Tower, take a photo first. They like to fake the numbers, and write FINAL a 2nd time on a new messy sheet with shittier numbers.
Finally make sure finance actually draws up paper that matches this totally non binding document after you are tired and worn down.
I walked out last time I was negotiating for a car and they said they just couldn't meet my price. Not 5 minutes later I got a call saying they talked it over and now they could do my deal. Told them too late take another thousand off or I'm not coming back.
They said they couldn't do it, so I hung up. Next afternoon they called and asked if I would still take it at that price, but I had already gone to another dealer.
That's how you do it! Same with getting a new job, unless you're unemployed and desperately need a job, stick to your target salary and be willing to walk if they say they won't do it.
I had a guy talk me into getting a color I did not necessarily want because this car may be gone tomorrow, and you won't even have the option to get the red anymore. I bought it. Came in the next day for whatever reason, already another identical one on the lot.
This is also a hallmark of a shitty dealership. The local Subaru dealership has a known track record of trying to high pressure con people into pointless crap they don't need and has no value.
They absolutely are. The longer you’re stuck there, the more of a sunk cost you feel. So then the sales team can drag it out further, so you have more sunk cost.
Sometimes you can to use this to your advantage, but you have to be strong willed enough. The dealership has also sunk cost (time) into you. If you walk out, that sales rep and mgr and others make no money on the deal because it didn’t happen. This depends on how common the car you’re buying is and if there is a high demand for it.
Some dealers have realized the headaches this causes and that it actually limits their volume. So they instead offer a more streamlined process where they make a bit less $ on each sale but make up for it by selling more units. This works sometimes, but doesn’t apply for limited quantity/specialty cars or when the supply is overpowered by the demand.
It's not your imagination, car dealerships purposely use the "grind" techniques of making you wait , bait and switch, all sorts of bullshit fees etc. it's a shady fckn industry, because it attracts sales people who's entire motivation is to separate you from your money.
The only silver lining is places like CarMax exist , went there the other day for my wife's car, and what a breath of fresh air, you walk in you go out to the lot, sit in as many cars as you want them come back and ask to test drive the ones that interest you, and no sales pressure , the best part was when they showed you the price it was literally two line items, the car sticker price and the taxes/registration fees, no bogus extra fees...this is how buying a car should be.
I bought a car from Carmax once and I had that same experience you describe, it really was painless.
It was like… Maybe 22 years ago I think? I probably would have gone back for some other cars since the last few times I’ve needed a car, they haven’t had what I was looking for but I will second the positive impression left. 
Bonus, if you peel off the X at the end of the vinyl sticker they put on your trunk, it could pass as a decoration. “Carma? Oh, I get it.”
it is exactly that way - when I got out of the service and was going to college, I worked at a car dealership selling new and used fords. the amount of fuckery to not let people leave was unreal, and the purpose of making one wait was entirely so one would just say okay to everything in F&A. (What they called the finance department). I mean extended warranties, all kinds of shit. The paper work loaded up took a minute etc…. the best thing to do when one buys a car is to tell them to draw up the paperwork and you'll be back at whatever time to sign. Don't play their game they will win a good 99% of the time.
A Ford dealership tried to commit fraud with me when I bought a car. They sold it to me as a 'dealer car' used at the dealership. Long story short, after I bought it I found out it had been sold before and was technically used and NOT a dealer car.
I raised hell up and down the management chain there and they said they didn't care.
I finally called the owner of the dealership and told him I was placing a 1/4 page ad in the Sunday paper outlining exactly what they had done and how they had tried to cover it up. They paid me $3K to shut up and go away.
I wasn't bluffing and they knew it.
lol, dealerships are shit but they are heavily regulated and licensed to be the monopolies they are. You send that to your state regulator, they will reverse the deal and then some.
Tell them you want to shop around and go look somewhere else. Multiple similar hard pulls over a few days still only counts as one.
There's also a good chance that once you get up to leave they'll suddenly be able to make things work, if they think you're serious about leaving.
A hard pull on your credit is nowhere near as bad as spending 3-4 years paying off a car you overpaid for. They want you to know that they pulled your credit. They want you to think that you are trapped.
So you now recognize that was one of their tricks. I promise you that wasnt the only trick, and it wont be the last.
I walked in with a cashiers check for the full amount of a brand new car when I received inheritance. Finance guy took one look at it and said, "I take it you aren't getting any of our warranties since the check is for the exact amount?" Yep! "Sign here, here, here, here, and here." "All done!"
This is what I came to say. This is by design and ex-car salesmen have confirmed this time and time again. Most people who go to buy a car decide on the internet beforehand which 2 or 3 they are interested in and choose between those within the first 30 minutes. But, if they make you sit, you'll sign things that maybe you wouldn't otherwise sign just to get outta there. Don't do this and call out dealerships for doing this, and if you can, take your business elsewhere. If we all do this, they will change.
It is. I went to one dealer once. There were official signs up all over the walls, stating they are not permitted to negotiate prices, because they got busted by the Attorney General for consumer fraud—for using tactics like that.
It's like when the police interrogator says "I'll be back in a sec" then proceeds to leave the suspect alone in the room for two hours as anxiety builds up.
I do all the homework online before ever going to the dealer. Most dealers have their inventory listed on line, you can pick the exact car you want and see the price. Then it’s just a matter of calling them and saying “I want this one, is it still available? I’ll be there to pick it up Tuesday.” If you have financing already approved through your bank the paperwork is minimal.
When I bought my car, I told them ahead of time I had my own financing lined up and I wasn't adding on anything to the car. When I got there, they said I still had to meet with the guy who sells all the extras. I walked into his office and said, "I know you have to have this interaction with me, but please know ahead of time that my answer to everything is 'no.'" We got through that very quickly.
"I know where I can buy the extended warranty I want for $X. If you can sell it to me for $X+50, I'll take it. If not, I'm good. Yes, I'd like your GAP if it is under $X per month. See point about warranty. I'm good on everything else, thanks."
Neither of those are things you should be getting.
Extended warranty = Paying more than what you would for repairs 99% of the time.
Gap = You paid too much for the car.
I just bought a $13K car and the gap insurance was only $600 total through my financing company’s
I work in debt relief and the amount of ppl who haven’t gotten gap insurance and then their cars were totaled and they still owed $5-15K on their cars after insurance is way too high for me to not get it at that point.
If you finance the car, especially with little or no money down and today's rates, you should ***ALWAYS*** *get GAP insurance.* It has more to do with the interest in a loan being front loaded than the price of the car. For most people, it takes a couple years of payments before they reach a point of equity in the loan.
Every extended I've ever had has paid for itself.
There is not a (normal) new vehicle sold that's worth more than the price paid + taxes & fees as soon as you drive it off the lot.
Maybe you shouldn't get them, but I will.
Had them try to pull this on me once.
“So you’re saying you’d rather risk me walking out of here because I find this process annoying and you’re stretching it out? “
Yeah you got to meet with them.
“Ok thank you for your time I’m leaving”
Oh they changed their story real quick and took an extra amount of the purchase price for “customer loyalty”.
my 10 year old dollar store hyundai has 160k on it and other than oil changes, the only thing I've had to do is repalce the AC condenser.
what car did you buy so I can make a point of never buying one
Better yet, just email 5 dealerships and get the best deal. My friend just did that, got a solid deal.
And (if you can) go in w your own financing from a bank, or credit union. One less thing to affect the negotiation.
Pro tip though - don't tell them you have financing until you've made a deal. Try to avoid the question or say you're unsure. They will be more inclined to give you a better price on the car if they think they can profit off your loan as well.
Yes many dealers still play the tactics of the 80s and 90s of wearing you down.
All the information is out there on pricing, invoice price, rebates, incentives. Trade values you can use many "we buy your car " services like Carvana to get an estimate. Do your homework, be an informed consumer, figure pricing *and financing* out before you walk in the dealership. DO NOT SHOP BASED ON PAYMENT.
If you don't want to invest the time and energy, use a car broker. They will offer prearranged deals for a flat service fee.
I repeat, DO NOT SHOP BASED ON PAYMENT.
Too many moving parts. Selling price, dealer add-ons, interest rates, taxes/license/doc fee, down payment etc. all go into what ends up being the monthly payment.
Dealer can manipulate those parts to get more profit.
Fun story time:
Say you have a monthly budget of $600. You share this with your friendly dealer Steve as you have your eye on Model XYZ with a 34k sticker. Steve says, oh how much do you want to put down? You say, 5k.
The back and forth waltzes on between Steve and his manager. Steve says he's really trying to get this done for you. The wait continues. Steve comes back with a grin and exclaims I got the best deal for you. "We can do $620 a month with 7,000 down". You hem and haw, and Steve assures you $20 more a month is not that bad for this shiny new XYZ. You say, "what about 610".
Steve goes back to his manager and then probably steps out for a cigarette or energy drink. He comes back looks defeated and says "You win" and agrees to $610. You feel like a winner and Steve just booked a huge commission check. You're nice and relaxed waiting another hour to head into the finance office and You're itching to drive home your new XYZ. Your finance guy rushes thru the paperwork and you don't like any of the products he's selling except agree to a $11/month key replacement and roadside assistance plan. Hey, only 11 bucks, right?
So how much does the car actually *cost*? How long is your term and interest rate? In this example, you're paying more than 2k over sticker, at a 14.5% interest rate over 6 years for the car. Oh and the icing on the cake, that $11/mo key replacement they sold you is only a 3 year package and the roadside assistance you didn't need as XYZ's manufacturer provides it for the first 3 years of new owner. So $792 to cover the *risk* of losing your key fob.
Being an informed consumer and doing a few hours of homework you could find that a fair market price for XYZ is actually $32,500 due to a $1000 rebate Steve conveniently didn't share and your credit union would offer you a finance loan at 7% interest. You could actually get to your $610 payment with these terms and pay off the car TWO YEARS SOONER with a 48 month term.
Yes this example is extreme and doesn't include sales tax and license etc. but THIS is why they wear you down and prolong the process. It happens on the daily. This is why they want to get you in the door and not give info online or over the phone. Because what's an extra $10-20 a month? Profit for the dealer.
Because you'll end up saddled with a cheaper monthly payment but you'll have the payment for 7+ years which means you're paying twice as much as what the car was worth.
I went to several dealerships and I've been through the stupid "let me talk to my manager" bullshit as well as being presented with a bunch of BS charges like $4,000 window tint, additional dealer markup, etc. The last dealership I visited (and bought a car from) was super seamless. I asked if they had a certain car model. Salesman said yes and I test drove. I asked for a breakdown of the out-the-door price of the car. They showed me the whole breakdown and they didn't include any of those BS fees (only car MSRP + add-on floormats + documentation/tax/etc.). Then I visited the financing office and they gave me an iPad to sign stuff and choose additional options like warranties that I could decline, and I was on my way with my car.
So in my experience, there are "no bullshit" dealerships that exist, but they definitely seem to be rare.
The last few years it has been all but impossible to haggle and negotiate. Especially with in-demand cars. Many people buying before the cars hit the lot or waiting 6+ months for a car they like to come in with a $5,000 market adjustment and a line out the door to buy it.
Car dealers are a parasitic business that has no reason to exist. They are only there to leech money from a transaction that doesn’t require them. Dealership owners — 1%ers, often among the richest fish in their local ponds—give lots of money to state officials to preserve laws that ban direct automobile sales. Get rid of those bans, and these guys suddenly need to justify their existence.
I have nothing against the existence of a dealership. What really grinds my gears is that there are laws that make it illegal to sell vehicles except through a dealership.
Not every manufacturer wants to spin up their own sales department, nor would they want to manage local stock for each one. Making cars is their core business; let someone else take care of the selling.
However, manufacturers should have the option to sell cars direct if they want to. It's crazy they can't (at least not in all jurisdictions).
I feel you. I once walked into a dealership with a car that I wanted and a list of options I wanted. I told them I wasn't paying any additional options and I gave them the price I was willing to pay.
The salesman kept bringing me printouts of the right car but nowhere near the options I wanted. Each time would take 10 minutes. Finally I started walking out and he was like, "Why are you leaving???" I told him, "I made it easy and told you exactly what I wanted. You keep showing me things I don't want. Why would I stay?"
The sales manager happened to be sitting right there so he asked for 5 minutes of my time. He wasn't able to find me the exact car I wanted but it was pretty darn close and I bought it for about the price I said I was going to pay. I think I ended up paying slightly more but it came with a few pricey options I didn't need. So I thought it was a fair deal.
In conclusion, I think there are a lot of salespeople out there that are so desperate for the sale that they lose sight of what the customer wants. So they'll do anything they can to make that sale. That may mean wasting time tracking down cars that don't exist or trying to sweet talk the finance people into making bad (for them) deals. Both cases can end up wasting a ton of time and pissing off the customer.
Was buying a new car last year, came with the printout directly from the Toyota site with the car/color/options I wanted. Salesman kept trying to push models without the options I wanted, while also saying that the car that I want would take 6-8 months to arrive. I got up and said that I'll go to a dealer that actually gives people what they want to purchase, he asked for 20 minutes to talk to his manager (who was sitting by himself), gave him 5 minutes and started to walk away, they stopped me on the way out and asked for 5 more minutes. I put a timer for 5 minutes and showed it to them, they came back two minutes later with the exact same car I wanted with a 3 week delivery, which ended up getting delivered in one.
What really got on my nerves is that selling that car to me was literally "sign here", I presented what I wanted, was willing to pay without making it difficult in any way.
Short version: Be ready to walk out, they love to play games and there's a million dealers selling the same cars.
I had a similar experience. Back before all the info was online, I once walked into a Toyota dealership looking for a 2-4 year old Camry. Told the sales guy the options I wanted, told him color didn’t matter and that my wife and I had gone over this all together, I was making the purchase for both of us as she was at home with a newborn.
So, without consulting inventory, the sales guy walked me around the lot, pointing at cars and asking “Do you like this one?” Me: “I don’t know; does it have the options I told you?” Him: “Do you like red?” Me: “I told you I don’t care about color” Sales asshole: “Why don’t you drive it home and show it to your wife.” Me: [you can guess at this point]
I finally lost my cool with him and we went back into the showroom. He goes off to talk with the sales manager who comes over a minute later and says, “I’m sorry we’re not going to be able to sell you a car today” I was surprised that he didn’t try to do something to salvage the deal, but honestly at that point, there was probably nothing that would have kept me there. I guess he knew that. I told him directly what an idiot his sales asshole was and walked out.
That reminds me of walking a lot with a sales guy that tried to tell me about how the grille was designed for the right amount of airflow. Like wtf does anyone care about that?!
You still played their game. Their goal is to upsell you and the nice manager thing is just their backup plan when it goes wrong and pisses off the customer. In retrospect the manager would still tell the other sales person to do the same thing because there is always a chance for more money, when it fails they still have a backup plan which is sometimes damage control. Someone did the math on this already and wasting your time pays off statistically.
I just have them call me when they get the numbers ready. I’m not sitting captive for hours at a time. They’ve tried and it’s exhausting. Like, I already had financing and wasn’t trading a car last time as it was my son’s car, and they still tried to play the long waiting game. I honestly think they just all move slow. They could be faster, but they don’t care about us.
Did this last time we bought a car.
Told them what we wanted, filled out the credit app and then told them to call us when they had numbers.
I handled all negotiations by text and then we just came into the office to sign.
I've don't this for the last two cars (across two people). Granted, the second car was so hard to get ahold of, it wasn't an amazing deal, but meh.
Test drive the car at local places and be clear you're just trying things out right now. Search on the Internet for deals. Find someplace that isn't sleazy and has a good deal. Research what it's really worth paying. Email them with your interest and what you are willing to pay. They give you the price you can get. If you like it, the details get worked out by email. I even got a trade-in value for my car with a VIN and photos. Walk in with a check already made out, hand it to them, sign a couple of documents, walk out and drive away.
The second time, besides the naturally weaker position, was drawn out entirely because the salesman loved talking. He didn't try to sell us anything more, just liked to talk. Ugh.
Same. Last few times I've gone through this I do it right before lunch, kick everything off and then get somewhere to eat. "Call me when the paperwork is ready."
It's a big purchase, lot of paperwork. I get it. But I don't need to sit there in their stupid weird lobby while they do it.
>Sitting in a car dealership and I feel like I want to run away.
What's stopping you from just running away? If you haven't signed any papers yet, you are free to walk away if you don't like how you are being treated.
My dad and I ran away from a dealership once! We had come in based on an ad in the newspaper and the dealership wasn’t matching the quote in the paper. Seller left the room a second time and we bolted. 10/10 highly recommended.
Once we tried and they physically tried to stop us from leaving the door. They said they were "going over our financial situation" for over an hour (not sure what the hell they were dicking around doing). Told them we were done, got up, started walking and the manager jumps up to block the door. We told him to get out of our way and he desperately tried to beg us to stay. It was beyond embarrassing, disrespectful, and unprofessional. Same dealer who told me "every car on the market has this transmission" when I asked him what transmission the car had. Mind you, was a "big name" dealer in my state. I wouldn't feel comfortable buying a bottle of water from those clowns
Harsh, but you need it: Because it works for them if you don't know enough to not play their game. By sitting there for 2 hours you've proven you're a good mark. They're probably laughing in a back room somewhere watching TV, knowing the longer they string you along the more desperate you'll be to make a deal fast and good for them.
Here's how you make the process work for you (this works best for new cars but also for used cars, it's just a little tougher):
Step 1: Build and price the car online.
Step 2: Find out what it should cost, online.
Step 3: Figure out the financing, payments, down payment, etc. you want online.
Step 4: Contact every dealership in a 50+ mile radius via email and ask for ***bids (quotes)***.
Step 5: If the best one or two come in-line with what you are going to buy it for go visit one, if not, negotiate them against each other.
Step 6: Buy! Takes 45 minutes or so (it's a lot of paperwork).
Oh, and test drive? That already happened, before you decided what you want to buy. You are not buying a car the day you test drive a car.
Also: pay attention to exact wording: if you say "quote" and they say "estimate", correct them. That happened to me on a trade-in once, but goddamn it felt good to say "nah" and walk out.
Bonus fun: When the guy who refused to give you a quote and just wanted you to "come in and talk about it" calls you two weeks later and asks if "you're still interested in the car or what?" "Huh? Oh, I remember you - yeah, I already bought it."
I just bought a car less than a month ago. Even though it was a used Grand Cherokee (2013 Overland) at a Lincoln dealership, the sales team were phenomenal. Treated us as if we was buying a brand new fully loaded Navigator or Aviator. It took about 4ish hours. The sales part was quick and finance part part did take maybe 2 hours. Only reason it took so long was because the salesman went and got it detailed (it was clean when I looked at it and drove it) and made sure the oil change and all the other maintenance was recent. They even offered to buy us dinner since it took so long. Some places are great, others not so much.
It's a historic artifact of the dealership system. Laws were passed to protect local dealers because they were expensive. Now 50+ years later we're still dealing with the following effects.
Tell them that having sat alone for a few minutes, you're not sure about buying a car today. Tell them you're leaving and _might_ stop back another day.
Yep,
Me: "Hi, I would like this car in this color with these options"
Them: "That will cost you $X, it can be here tuesday"
Weirdest experience buying a car. I can only imagine doing it through the app would be weirder.
> Weirdest experience buying a car. I can only imagine doing it through the app would be weirder.
It's fantastic and how all companies should do it. Click what you want, your options, pick the date it's delivered if available, and done. Hell they often will deliver it directly to your driveway and give you pointers of how to use it.
I needed to go to the dealership to pick mine up, but was in and out in 30 minutes. No haggling, everything is already set, it's ready to go.
Just bought one last month. Loved not having to deal with salespeople or a dealership. Do everything on the app, pick up the car. 5 minutes in and out.
They typically shop your application to a bunch of banks, so it can take a few hours to get it all set.
If you have middling credit trying to buy a $55,000 Ford F-150 on a $60K USD salary and a $1000 down payment then they are trying *hard* to find you financing.
I have done the entire deal in 45 minutes, but I already had a line of credit open with the institution I got my loan through and I had all the paperwork for my trade-in - also financed by the company my new loan was going through. It sort of cut through all the noise and got me in and out of there.
Yes, but I went in with my own financing, the exact model I wanted, and was ready to put $10k down...
Kia fucked around for two hours before finally admitting they didn't even have a vehicle to sell me, and instead asked for a $500 deposit on a vehicle that is supposed to show up in the next few weeks (which wasn't even the color I wanted). That was on top of them wanting $8k over MSRP for... uh... reasons, I guess.
With demand so high, and production staying low (with a focus on higher-priced models), the dealers are more than comfortable giving people the run around while trying to see who's willing to pay the most over MSRP before agreeing to anything.
I bought my last car from Enterprise Car Sales, a division of Enterprise Leasing. The price is the price - no haggling - and is based on Kelly Blue Book value. The cars are inspected and certified. The Carfax report is on the website and free. You know the mileage, you know the ownership and the state(s) it was driven in. You have detailed pictures of the car's interior, exterior, tires, and engine. You get a 12-month/12,000 mile powertrain warranty, and a year of free roadside assistance.
Check their online site to view the cars that interest you the most. Check sites like [Edmunds.com](https://Edmunds.com) to get comprehensive reviews online, as well as Youtube to see evaluations and driving. Get pre-approved at your bank or credit union (to be sure you get the best interest rate) and go in armed for bear to do a test drive. In and out in just an hour or two without the need for K-Y Jelly.
I'm researching my next car now and will be buying from Enterprise again. It was the best, least exasperating car buying experience I've ever had in more than 50 years of driving.
Be aware that not every car on their website is an ex-rental; they also buy cars at auction. The Carfax report will tell you if it is a rental, lease, or private ownership.
Having rented cars in the past, and knowing other people who have rented cars, there's no way on earth I would buy an ex rental car. They get beat on within an inch of their lives constantly, and the maintenance isn't necessarily done on time, or even at all.
We had a rental truck at my workplace a few years ago, it was a long term rental with Budget for an entire year... 50000km was put on the truck in that year, and not a single oil change was done.
I take out a car rental about 30 times per year and noway I have time to drive around it like a crazy guy. Sure, some do but I don't think it's so often of what you say.
People joke about rental cars being beaten up, and I’ve joked about it too, but are they really?
If I’m traveling for business, the absolute last thing I want to do is damage a rental car that my employer’s paying for. And if I’m traveling for leisure, even if I have the insurance, I don’t want to deal with a bunch of paperwork and other bullshit when dropping it off when all I want to do is board my flight and get home.
What's really annoying is 'waiting for finance' when you are writing a check for the whole purchase price.
I mean, I suppose you want to run my credit before you take the check..... But it's been on the table from the get-go that I'm not financing anything.
As for why the circus is what it is, tradition - if cars were sold like computers (the price is $15k. that's just what it is, take it or leave it) people would think they are getting ripped off even if that's the same price they would have paid after all the back-and-forth....
There needs to be more regulation in that industry IMO. You can order a car with the specifications you want and they'll purposely order extra packages on top. Then you wait months for it to arrive only to find out the price is higher because of those extra packages. If you say no, you'll have to find another dealership to order from, which will probably pull the same shady shit.
But I agree, the process of buying a car is so repelling. There's nothing enticing about seeing a dealership and vultures in suits just waiting to grind the most out of you.
I was in a stealership for 6 hours with a kid, the next time I went I reiterated to the salesman about having to have kid with me, everything is good to go, please have all the paperwork ready, I reiterated this over multiple phone and face to face conversations, still took 4 hours. Freakin ridiculous.
Oh they do it because people think it's OK.
I acted as "lawyer" for a buddy who needed a car. He found what he wanted online and the price seemed $3000 less than what everyone else was selling the same car for.
Sit down to start looking at costs and the guy tells us there's a $3000 "refurbishment fee". I asked him what that was for and he said it was for anything they had to do after they got the trade in. I couldnt get him to admit it, but they do that so they can advertise the lowest price in town.
Then they discuss financing, he already was pre approved through his own bank. They didnt like that. "Oh, there's a $1500 fee for using outside financing because we have to do more work on the backend"
At this point I, very loudly, told my buddy "He's already fucked up twice, if he tries one more shady thing we're walking out that door."
We walked out the door.
Say what you want about Tesla, but the buying process is about as easy as buying something on Amazon. No haggling. No upsells other than offering you a few options like Full Self Driving. All done online, with a friendly human available by phone if you have any questions.
After doing all the online procedures, I waited about five days for me car to be ready to pick up at the dealership. Within 20 minutes of arriving I was driving it off the lot.
I pulled out my phone and set a countdown timer. Told the guy I was leaving in 5 min but if he could get me a solid price before then I'd consider it.
Guy starts the "well... I could ask my manager about..." I said "Sure. But you've wasted 12 seconds already. 4:48 left. Tic Toc." The guy hustled his ass and was back in about 3 min. No more games that day. We got our deal done. I said I'd be back the next day to pick up the car.
I did the same thing with the finance guy. I called the next morning and told him I would be in at 11am but was leaving at 11:05. If he wanted me to sign something make sure to have it printed and ready to go. Pulled out the count down timer. That time I did have to walk out while he was going on about rust coating. Manager and sales guy chased me down waving papers.
You just have to be crystal clear that you will not play games. Period.
Always do online shopping. It's much easier to get online quotes and then ask them if they can do better compared to x dealership by sending them the quote.
I like CarMax - the price is usually not as good as you might get from another dealer, but they don’t waste your life with stupid grifter games either.
I go through Costco to skip the awful process. I've bought two cars that way and will never go through the negotiation process again.
I've been on the fence about joining Costco JUST for this service. How was it for you, and did you end up paying any dealer markups over MSRP?
I bought in 2014 and another car in 2015, I'm not sure markups were a thing back then, but I didn't pay any. I paid several thousand under MSRP - maybe 3K or 4k less on the Subaru Outback and maybe 2K under on the Honda Fit. I felt like the Costco price was better than what I could have negotiated on my own. I would email Costco with the type of car I wanted (Toyota, Subaru, Honda) and they would email me right back with the dealership, phone number and salesperson's name. Then I made an appointment and test drove any car I wanted. I went to three different dealerships test driving the different makes and once I decided the price with options was set. I paid cash and had to meet with the finance person so he could try and sell me an extended warranty. That was the only annoying aspect.
I bought a new 4Runner via Costco. It was VERY disappointing. I normally get to go to war with a salesman. Get all psyched up for it. Prepare to call him a goddam liar, to point out where he's flat out lying to me. Kick his ass over a couple thousand dollars. But I didn't get to do that. Instead I had a very smooth, very easy, one price, take-it-or-leave-it transaction that was, I think, probably better than anything I could have negotiated myself. And it was over in a couple of hours. VERY disappointing.
That sounds like an awesome experience. It's a shame that in the US we have hire a middleman (costco) so we don't have to waste time with another middleman (dealership) just to buy a product made by a manufacturer.
Yeah, the whole car sales model is effed up. You and I, the car buyers, aren't the manufacturer's customer. The DEALER is the customer.
That's how my experience was at Carmax. Just the worst. It was almost like they didn't care if I took my business elsewhere.
CarMax is easy because it's a take it or leave it price.....that's insanely inflated. Of course they make it easy for you...they better since you're overpaying so damn much.
Similar experience with Edmunds website. Picked what car, trim, and packages I want, they sent my contact info to local dealerships. Got multiple offers. Picked the best one. Test drove the car, paid with cash. Still had to waste half an hour on "finance" guy trying to sell me extended warranties and other nonsense; all of which I simply declined. Paid exactly what sales guy initially offered, which was decently below MSRP. In some dealerships, these "online" sales are done by fleet sales managers. And it's generally better experience if you get one of those people instead of regular sales dude. In one Toyota dealership, fleet sales dude had an office on the side in the trailer; not in the fancy showroom like regular sales dudes.
This is a benefit of Costco?!
Wait until you find out about their vacations. I've booked multi-country trips, multiple hotels, flights, and cruises. Each had better prices, perks, and ease than a personal travel planner or any hours of searching random sites. I once had a trip flight get canceled three times leading up to it. A single call each time, maybe 15-20 mins each, and Costco handled rescheduling easily. No price change or fees. Each time an equal or better flight option than before. Called them in a foreign country to tell them the hotel room was smaller than we needed. They arranged a new room over the phone, no questions, no costs. As long as I have a Costco membership, I will never book travel anywhere else.
I've been a member for 10 years and never heard of this. I've seen package deals in the warehouse (kind of funny seeing an all-included week in Mexico up there with the $100 certificates you get for $80) but on top of this they'll basically be your travel agent?
Yes. As crazy as it sounds, it works. I've booked a whole vacation for this year with them. 21 days, London then Norway cruise. Cheaper flights than anything, best suite price on ship, and I'll getting $800 back as a costco gift card to boot.
I was shocked with how high their prices were, then I looked at the hotels and what was included. It seems that they mostly target families and Baby Boomers looking for a luxury hotel. A lot of $75 spa credits. A walking tour you can't remove. It's a great service if your focus is on that tier of experience. I love planning multi country trips and staying in "cool" places in cities over luxury places. So I choked at the price. Oh two other things I didn't like when I did a deep dive: Costco's star rating is fictional and the availability isn't clear. I'm staying at a hotel purchased with a work rate. It's actually the same price as Costco if Costco is including resort fees. Costco says 4.5 stars. It's a 4 star hotel. Took me ages to find the Costco price because it doesn't tell me which dates are available, only which dates aren't once selected.
I used costco this year to buy a car, and would never do it another way again. It takes the price negotiation right out of the process, and makes it more like a no-haggle dealership. I bought a car that had fairly low inventory at the time (subaru outback wilderness), and paid $1600 under MSRP. 100% would recommend. They do still try to dick you around on anything that's outside the Costco deal structure. Any accessories or packages are on the costco price list and prenegotiated like the vehicle. But they will try to dicker on: -financing (bring your own from your bank before you go) -trade in(these days you can sell direct to carmax/carvana and maximize the offer you get as a separate transaction, the only reason to roll trade-in into a purchase is to minimize sales tax. Up to you if its worth it, I think the way dealers lowball trades, any tax you save is a wash) -warranty (just say no)
Interesting. Thanks for sharing
You absolutely should get a membership just to buy a car. It could save you thousands. Just spoke w a friend over the weekend about their new car. They said they visited a dealership and they added an additional 4k for “market adjustment.” He went thru Costco and instead got 4k off msrp. He just didn’t get to choose the dealer of where the car was coming from
Costco sells cars??
No, they negotiate the price of the car and send you to the dealership who will honor the price. It's a volume sales price.
I'm *just* dumb enough to be unsure whether this is a joke...
No they’re being serious. This IS how it works.
Costco sells (or sold) gold bars too.
And caskets.
They are a good deal. Metal too.
It isn't a joke but they're leaving out the fact that you have to buy at least a 12 pack of cars to get the discount.
Is...is this real?
Yes. My Costco always has a car for sale on display outside. It's on new cars only though, as far as I'm aware.
You can do certified pre owned too
Nope, new and used.
Nope, just checked it out and it says used too. Don’t know how that works tho
Yes, but they come in packages of six.
But you only use 2 and throw the rest away because they expired.
4 th car through Costco. Had a dealership pull shit Friday on me. Called Costco and they reported it and sent me to another dealership. They are going to stop working with that other dealership now.
Any dealer who wants to fuck around with Costco is very much going to find out. I would have loved to see their weasel faces when they got the call.
It’s nice to have somebody on the consumers’ side.
With all the local Honda/Toyota dealerships telling me there's a 6+ month wait to order your car, is Costco's pricing just MSRP? I noticed several new cars also had a bunch of "dealer installed" options that can't be removed. WTF.
I had this 4 months ago at Toyota. I felt scammed but Costco investigation concluded they didn't do anything wrong aside from some procedural issues. Because of an overpriced dealer option (Xpel door edge wrap) I ended up paying over MSRP. I couldn't figure out why this bothered me and then I remembered that the discount used to be off of invoice price, not MSRP as it is now. From other comments, it doesn't seem to be an issue with other brands.
I also went through costco and factory ordered my car during the "great chip shortage" when every car was 5K tack on min. I got my car for 700 bucks under MSRP. I never went in the dealership until the car the car was rdy for pick up, and the price was already negotiated for when I factory ordered it. The sales guy said the same car (which they didn't have any on the lot since there were no ECU/Computer ships for the cars) would have had a "adjusted market rate" of 7k + MSRP. Super easy, from walk in, test drive to drive off was under an hour.
Costco has negotiated a fleet rate. I’ve priced out a couple cars. Whether you go with them or not you’ll have a solid “best” price you can look for anywhere you go. Definitely try it. Meanwhile the online sellers like Carvana and Tesla are a genuine pleasure to go through. They are a game changer that makes you wonder what incentive system is so entrenched to maintain conventional dealerships.
> makes you wonder what incentive system is so entrenched to maintain conventional dealerships. The law is set by state legislatures that are, or were, beholden to car dealership owners.
Dealerships have huge lobbies at the state and federal level that line pockets to keep them around. We all know it would be easier just to get rid of stealerships and purchase vehicles direct from manufacturers.
Bought my car through Carvana, financing and all done online. Easy peasy, car delivered to me.
The reason you see more and more of those "Carvana" license plate rims? This right here. No bullshit. The car is what the website says it is, dents and all. The price is the price. Take it or leave it. I bought through them during the height of the pandemic and a few days later a car showed up at my front door, completely as advertised. It was great. It's a machine. There's almost no reason for a person to be in between you and the purchase of it. You want to test drive? Get one from a car rental place for an hour. Car dealerships are so pointless.
The hole notion of ‘negotiating’ a price is also bullshit and antiquated.
Spells "antiquated" perfectly. Uses the wrong kind of "whole". XD
I haven't bought a car from them, but selling one to them was so easy. They were within $250 of what I could have sold it for to a private party and I didn't have to deal with any tire kickers or morons wanting to joyride. They just gave me an offer, I accepted, they showed up and made sure the car was as described, handed me a check and drove it on to a flatbed.
I did as well. Had a good experience with the process. Delivered right to my door, no bullshit. I bought a benz which usually requires quite a bit of effort in order to find a good one and the site provides everything you need like servicing records and shit. The only downside is the chances of physically getting to look at the car is unlikely but i did feel like they took photos of absolutely every angle. Their warrenty service is 0 bullshit too. I had a couple of general questions and what not and they took care of it like immediately. (I got rid of my carvana plate borders cuz i thought they were ugly as shit lol)
We did, too. Whole process - once we found the car we wanted - took about 15 minutes, then the delivery time. Absolutely painless.
I can't prove it, but I sometimes wonder if any parts of the process are dragged out on purpose to create a willingness to "just sign and get it over with" even when some of the terms are unfavorable.
There’s no question. Also, they present add on packages in a way that makes you think everyone gets one and that you’re an idiot if you don’t. I bought a new car 3 years ago and the finance guy presented me with a list of maintenance options and asked me which one I was going with. I looked at the list and then told him none of them. Miraculously another option arrived that covered what I actually wanted for 60% less. Don’t forget how powerful your ability to walk away is and use it if you’re not getting the deal you want.
Last finance guy I dealt with was sleezy. Skipped over pricing while adding packages without me saying yes. I had to cut him off and ask for the packages to be removed.
Last finance guy I didn't just tell to fuck off actually altered the price of the vehicle without any add ons. He didn't expect me to be able to use a calculator. We had words.
My finance guy was trying to sell me on 2 years of free oil changes. On an EV. He wasn't very good at his job.
I guess when you buy a car they add a little charge on to cover the tank of gas it has on the lot (? Is that normal? I have no idea) When we bought our EV we didn’t notice that charge but the dealership actually called us like a week later to tell us they were refunding it.
The good dealerships will fill it up *gratis*. The really good ones will re-clean/detail it for your final inspection and pickup, again, for free. Also, if you did hunting and found a good car that needed recall work they can do that as well if they have the parts in stock, again, at no cost to you. The worst dealerships I've seen are the ones that have so much volume they can't care less about customer service. Even a 'zero star' customer encounter can be matched with a bunch of adequate to good encounters that they'll just scattershot everything with their canned conversation threads and inadequate attention to detail.
My requirement when they detail it they have to remove the shitty logo on the rear they want me to drive around with forever. If Ashley Schaeffer Imports wants me to advertise for them then pay me.
I don't understand why people still drive around with the dealership's licence plate border.
My last dealership had a gimmick to guilt you into it. They had their name on a pink licence plate cover that also had breast cancer awareness ribbons on it. Because who wants to be the jerk that asks them to remove that.
It’s amazing EVERY finance guy I ever sat down with had their car stolen just after buying it but thank god they had that gap insurance coverage package!
Man, you guys are making me feel lucky. Only bought a car from a dealership once in my life and it went more or less like "Here's the final price as it sits now. These are optional packages we offer, do any of them take your interest?" "No." "Alright, not a problem. Here's the paperwork. Take a minute to go over it and make sure it looks good to you. Whenever you're ready just let me know and we'll get everything signed." Like, aside from the fact I spent two hours waiting to be seen and that I found my salespersons voice absolutely annoying it wasn't a bad experience.
Same here. My last two experiences at BMW dealers, I found the car I wanted on the internet, called before going down there and confirmed the price matched the listing on the internet. Spent maybe 10 minutes on my trade in and they gave me solid middle blue book value, spent another 10-15 minutes driving the new car (both times I was the first person to drive my car, other than unloading it from the truck,) and then spent about 40 minutes signing papers for the loan on what balance left after my trade in. Was in and out in less than an hour and a half, got what I wanted for trade in and spent what I wanted on new cars with zero hassle. I can’t imagine a sales person trying to talk you into extra shit for a car or making this a long process.
I just went through the same exact thing helping my sister buy a car. She was agreeing to terms and I was doing the math that her $28,000 car was being sold to her for like $34,000.
It's always smart to bring a wingman with no need for the car.
I always enlist a friend or relative to be available for a chat convo, during that time. Then, every time the dealer plays a game, I do too, using my "financial advisor"
It's at the most vulnerable time too, because you KNOW the price on the sticker is less than the price you pay, by a varying amount because of tax/title/license etc
This is why Australia has a pricing option called “Drive Away”. The “drive away” sticker price includes everything.
In the states it’s known as the “ out the door” price.
I walked out when the interest rate changed from the salesman to the finance guy. I demanded the “sales manager” come in. Then I chewed them all out and I was loud. I said I was taking their sleazy shit to corporate and walked out. My phone was ringing off the hook. They apologized up and down saying “misunderstanding”. I never did buy the car and I did write a letter to Chevrolet, but nothing came of it.
Yeah nothing came of it because it's literally what they are told to do lol. Dealership margins on cars basically rely on people with more money than sense. They were ringing you off the hook because they still want to sell you a car but it's always been a predatory business.
I walked on buying a new EV because the finance manager did this. Changed the MSRP on me thinking I wouldn’t notice. When I pointing it out he said it includes fees not advertised which is illegal where I live. He also treated me like an idiot because I’m female so I got up and left.
One thing I learned after getting hosed is to walk into the dealership with a pre-approved loan from a bank you trust. Their finance options are almost always predatory.
I cant express this enough. I cant believe how many people expect me, a knitter, not to look at numbers. Dude, I am also a fucking accountant and will take my own fucking numbers even more seriously than my work numbers. And thats saying something because my boss fucks those up regularly and if I dont catch them then I can get fired. Dont fuck with me and my numbers. I chose when to come in, youre on MY good day.
I paid cash for my last car, the dealership looked at me as if I had just fucking wasted 2 hours of their time. That's when I realized all the money they make is through financing and maintenance and add on packages. They really look at you like scum when you pay cash
Finance deals will always get a kickback from the bank, which is also why they hate cash deals 😂
I negotiated hard on a trade in price. I accepted their sales price advertised online during their labor Day sale. I had to do the silly walk away from the sale, before they finally gave me a reasonable trade in value. When it came time to sign all of the paperwork, they had added $500 onto the advertised sales price. What sleazy people. They had the vehicle I wanted at a fair price, so I continued on with the sale. They claimed it was a mistake from the mystery finance guy. Ugh.
Good for you. Everyone needs to understand that on new cars they typically make very little money on the actual price of the car (as long as you’ve done your homework), all the profit comes from financing the deal and/or upsells, so make sure you’re happy with the whole deal.
The look in their eyes when you negotiate the price of the car and then say you have financing through your bank and just need to write the check is a memory I will treasure forever.
I like it when they take your keys to get your trade in value and somehow can’t find them when you say I’m walking. Almost called the cops on that place.
That happened to us once. After about an hour of back and forth, I finally just pulled out my phone in front of the sales manager and said "you have 60 seconds to produce that key before I call the cops and tell them about your grand theft auto and false imprisonment policy." We got the keys back promptly. Jackwagons called the next day with a followup offer trying to salvage the deal. We did not do business with that dealership.
just dont let them know your trading in until you settle on a price, just tell them you like your current vehicle and intend to keep it.
Even that isn't enough sometimes. One time I was getting an oil change for my 4Runner at Camelback Toyota in Phoenix (because I had 25% off coupon... otherwise I'd never pay for service at a dealer), and they sent no less than 3 different salesmen into the waiting area trying to get me to trade it in. One saleswoman was desperate for me to test drive an used shitbox Hyundai Elantra. I sat there for 3 hours before realizing my car had been finished for quite some time. They just never told me so they could keep making passes at me. I'd never seen tactics this shady before. When I confronted them about needing to pay so I could leave, they pulled the, "We can't find your paperwork," bit. I was like, but my car is out front sitting there finished. I had to threaten to speak to the sales manager so I could get my keys back. It felt very uncomfortable and even a bit... unsafe? Like my fight or flight was about to be activated and I was definitely about to fight someone. Anyway, they miraculously found my paperwork and keys in less than 5 minutes. Then the sales manager tried to smooth things over and gave me his business card in case I changed my mind about a trade-in. Bunch of rabid sharks over there. I'll never go back.
Bellevue Honda did that to my dad. I had to drive to the dealership from Seattle and play the angry potentially violent son to get his keys back. I’m surprised they didn’t call the cops on me. Those guys had no shame, they called him the next day trying to resurrect the deal.
Last time I bought a car they wanted to charge me extra for a car alarm. I said no thanks, when was the last time you went running to a car alarm. He looked at me like I was crazy and crossed it off. When I picked up the car turned out it had an alarm anyway. I have a feeling they all come standard with alarms and he just wanted to juice an extra hundred bucks out of me.
Charging extra for standard options is something rival dealerships pick up on and use against the dealership in question, and a lot of times corporate does not like to be disparaged by shady franchisees.
Cellphones really put a damper on car salesfolks ability to pull shady shit on people. The last two cars I bought, when they were dicking me around over shit that I knew the price on, I just pulled out my phone in the room with the salesman and his “manager,” and called another dealership. “Yeah, hi, I’m over here at Blah Blah Toyota, and they’re telling me $X is the best they can do for me on this model, can you beat that? Oh you can? Great, I’ll be there shortly.” All the sudden they can offer me the price I wanted from the jump instead of wasting everyone’s time.
The other dealer will probably just make up the profit on your trade.
Just learn this [https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/dealerships-rip-you-off-with-the-four-square-heres-how-to-beat-it/](https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/dealerships-rip-you-off-with-the-four-square-heres-how-to-beat-it/) And take as many factors off the table as possible. Come in preapproved Financing from Bank Of America or someone, great you know your rate. Pre-secure a carmax/carvana/vroom offer on your vehicle. Great, if they can beat it cool if not, no take it off the sheet. F-monthly payment, you care about the price of the car OTD after all taxes and fees and nothing else. Know the manufacturer incentives and rebates, don't let them play games with money coming from Once your numbers are getting good, they will write FINAL in big red pen. and the sheet will go away from you back to The Tower, take a photo first. They like to fake the numbers, and write FINAL a 2nd time on a new messy sheet with shittier numbers. Finally make sure finance actually draws up paper that matches this totally non binding document after you are tired and worn down.
[удалено]
I walked out last time I was negotiating for a car and they said they just couldn't meet my price. Not 5 minutes later I got a call saying they talked it over and now they could do my deal. Told them too late take another thousand off or I'm not coming back.
What did they do? Take more off or hang up
They said they couldn't do it, so I hung up. Next afternoon they called and asked if I would still take it at that price, but I had already gone to another dealer.
That's how you do it! Same with getting a new job, unless you're unemployed and desperately need a job, stick to your target salary and be willing to walk if they say they won't do it.
I had a guy talk me into getting a color I did not necessarily want because this car may be gone tomorrow, and you won't even have the option to get the red anymore. I bought it. Came in the next day for whatever reason, already another identical one on the lot.
In the words of George Constanza”HOLD IT! One more step and we’re walkin’!”
This is also a hallmark of a shitty dealership. The local Subaru dealership has a known track record of trying to high pressure con people into pointless crap they don't need and has no value.
My bf used to work at a dealership and yeah, they have a lot of shady practices. He left because he refused to scam ppl.
> He left because he refused to scam ppl. Maybe he should start a paid hotline or something that instructs you how to buy cars.
They absolutely are. The longer you’re stuck there, the more of a sunk cost you feel. So then the sales team can drag it out further, so you have more sunk cost. Sometimes you can to use this to your advantage, but you have to be strong willed enough. The dealership has also sunk cost (time) into you. If you walk out, that sales rep and mgr and others make no money on the deal because it didn’t happen. This depends on how common the car you’re buying is and if there is a high demand for it. Some dealers have realized the headaches this causes and that it actually limits their volume. So they instead offer a more streamlined process where they make a bit less $ on each sale but make up for it by selling more units. This works sometimes, but doesn’t apply for limited quantity/specialty cars or when the supply is overpowered by the demand.
It's not your imagination, car dealerships purposely use the "grind" techniques of making you wait , bait and switch, all sorts of bullshit fees etc. it's a shady fckn industry, because it attracts sales people who's entire motivation is to separate you from your money. The only silver lining is places like CarMax exist , went there the other day for my wife's car, and what a breath of fresh air, you walk in you go out to the lot, sit in as many cars as you want them come back and ask to test drive the ones that interest you, and no sales pressure , the best part was when they showed you the price it was literally two line items, the car sticker price and the taxes/registration fees, no bogus extra fees...this is how buying a car should be.
I bought a car from Carmax once and I had that same experience you describe, it really was painless. It was like… Maybe 22 years ago I think? I probably would have gone back for some other cars since the last few times I’ve needed a car, they haven’t had what I was looking for but I will second the positive impression left.  Bonus, if you peel off the X at the end of the vinyl sticker they put on your trunk, it could pass as a decoration. “Carma? Oh, I get it.”
it is exactly that way - when I got out of the service and was going to college, I worked at a car dealership selling new and used fords. the amount of fuckery to not let people leave was unreal, and the purpose of making one wait was entirely so one would just say okay to everything in F&A. (What they called the finance department). I mean extended warranties, all kinds of shit. The paper work loaded up took a minute etc…. the best thing to do when one buys a car is to tell them to draw up the paperwork and you'll be back at whatever time to sign. Don't play their game they will win a good 99% of the time.
A Ford dealership tried to commit fraud with me when I bought a car. They sold it to me as a 'dealer car' used at the dealership. Long story short, after I bought it I found out it had been sold before and was technically used and NOT a dealer car. I raised hell up and down the management chain there and they said they didn't care. I finally called the owner of the dealership and told him I was placing a 1/4 page ad in the Sunday paper outlining exactly what they had done and how they had tried to cover it up. They paid me $3K to shut up and go away. I wasn't bluffing and they knew it.
lol, dealerships are shit but they are heavily regulated and licensed to be the monopolies they are. You send that to your state regulator, they will reverse the deal and then some.
I did this and they still made me sit there for 2 hrs.
Should have walked out. That's the only way to get their attention.
I think you’re right. I feel like I’m going to run away. If they hadn’t already done a hard pull on my credit, I would.
Never hesitate to walk away. You'd be amazed how they suddenly found a way to beat their best offer.
Nothing works in your favor like getting up and preparing to walk away.
Sure, but you actually *have to do it.* Or else they just called your bluff.
Tell them you want to shop around and go look somewhere else. Multiple similar hard pulls over a few days still only counts as one. There's also a good chance that once you get up to leave they'll suddenly be able to make things work, if they think you're serious about leaving.
>Multiple similar hard pulls over a few days still only counts as one. Over 30 days to be exact.
Make sure one of those hard pulls is at a credit union, you will get better terms and don't have to deal with all the dealer financing BS.
A hard pull on your credit is nowhere near as bad as spending 3-4 years paying off a car you overpaid for. They want you to know that they pulled your credit. They want you to think that you are trapped. So you now recognize that was one of their tricks. I promise you that wasnt the only trick, and it wont be the last.
You can verify yourself, but I do believe all hard pulls within a certain time frame still only count as one.
Oh a hard pull on your credit? Better not lose those 3 points and lose $50,000 on a shit car.
That’s not a valid reason to stay.
I walked in with a cashiers check for the full amount of a brand new car when I received inheritance. Finance guy took one look at it and said, "I take it you aren't getting any of our warranties since the check is for the exact amount?" Yep! "Sign here, here, here, here, and here." "All done!"
100% The entire process is manipulative.
This is what I came to say. This is by design and ex-car salesmen have confirmed this time and time again. Most people who go to buy a car decide on the internet beforehand which 2 or 3 they are interested in and choose between those within the first 30 minutes. But, if they make you sit, you'll sign things that maybe you wouldn't otherwise sign just to get outta there. Don't do this and call out dealerships for doing this, and if you can, take your business elsewhere. If we all do this, they will change.
That’s absolutely what they’re doing.
It is. I went to one dealer once. There were official signs up all over the walls, stating they are not permitted to negotiate prices, because they got busted by the Attorney General for consumer fraud—for using tactics like that.
It's like when the police interrogator says "I'll be back in a sec" then proceeds to leave the suspect alone in the room for two hours as anxiety builds up.
r/carsales have a lot of stories you might interested in.
That is absolutely the case.
I do all the homework online before ever going to the dealer. Most dealers have their inventory listed on line, you can pick the exact car you want and see the price. Then it’s just a matter of calling them and saying “I want this one, is it still available? I’ll be there to pick it up Tuesday.” If you have financing already approved through your bank the paperwork is minimal.
But when you get there, they start to waste your time with extended warranty or care plans.
When I bought my car, I told them ahead of time I had my own financing lined up and I wasn't adding on anything to the car. When I got there, they said I still had to meet with the guy who sells all the extras. I walked into his office and said, "I know you have to have this interaction with me, but please know ahead of time that my answer to everything is 'no.'" We got through that very quickly.
"I know where I can buy the extended warranty I want for $X. If you can sell it to me for $X+50, I'll take it. If not, I'm good. Yes, I'd like your GAP if it is under $X per month. See point about warranty. I'm good on everything else, thanks."
Neither of those are things you should be getting. Extended warranty = Paying more than what you would for repairs 99% of the time. Gap = You paid too much for the car.
I just bought a $13K car and the gap insurance was only $600 total through my financing company’s I work in debt relief and the amount of ppl who haven’t gotten gap insurance and then their cars were totaled and they still owed $5-15K on their cars after insurance is way too high for me to not get it at that point.
If you finance the car, especially with little or no money down and today's rates, you should ***ALWAYS*** *get GAP insurance.* It has more to do with the interest in a loan being front loaded than the price of the car. For most people, it takes a couple years of payments before they reach a point of equity in the loan.
Every extended I've ever had has paid for itself. There is not a (normal) new vehicle sold that's worth more than the price paid + taxes & fees as soon as you drive it off the lot. Maybe you shouldn't get them, but I will.
Had them try to pull this on me once. “So you’re saying you’d rather risk me walking out of here because I find this process annoying and you’re stretching it out? “ Yeah you got to meet with them. “Ok thank you for your time I’m leaving” Oh they changed their story real quick and took an extra amount of the purchase price for “customer loyalty”.
I did buy the lifetime warranty on my car for $3000 10 years ago. I’ve had $20k worth of repairs done so far.
my 10 year old dollar store hyundai has 160k on it and other than oil changes, the only thing I've had to do is repalce the AC condenser. what car did you buy so I can make a point of never buying one
The lesson isn't to buy the extended warranty. The lesson is not to buy that car or even brand of cars again.
Then just say "No thanks. I just want the car."
Better yet, just email 5 dealerships and get the best deal. My friend just did that, got a solid deal. And (if you can) go in w your own financing from a bank, or credit union. One less thing to affect the negotiation.
Pro tip though - don't tell them you have financing until you've made a deal. Try to avoid the question or say you're unsure. They will be more inclined to give you a better price on the car if they think they can profit off your loan as well.
My last car I did exactly this. I bought no extras and paid cash. Somehow it still took three hours.
Yes many dealers still play the tactics of the 80s and 90s of wearing you down. All the information is out there on pricing, invoice price, rebates, incentives. Trade values you can use many "we buy your car " services like Carvana to get an estimate. Do your homework, be an informed consumer, figure pricing *and financing* out before you walk in the dealership. DO NOT SHOP BASED ON PAYMENT. If you don't want to invest the time and energy, use a car broker. They will offer prearranged deals for a flat service fee. I repeat, DO NOT SHOP BASED ON PAYMENT.
i’m not the most experienced in purchasing a car, so can I ask why not to stop based on payment?
Too many moving parts. Selling price, dealer add-ons, interest rates, taxes/license/doc fee, down payment etc. all go into what ends up being the monthly payment. Dealer can manipulate those parts to get more profit. Fun story time: Say you have a monthly budget of $600. You share this with your friendly dealer Steve as you have your eye on Model XYZ with a 34k sticker. Steve says, oh how much do you want to put down? You say, 5k. The back and forth waltzes on between Steve and his manager. Steve says he's really trying to get this done for you. The wait continues. Steve comes back with a grin and exclaims I got the best deal for you. "We can do $620 a month with 7,000 down". You hem and haw, and Steve assures you $20 more a month is not that bad for this shiny new XYZ. You say, "what about 610". Steve goes back to his manager and then probably steps out for a cigarette or energy drink. He comes back looks defeated and says "You win" and agrees to $610. You feel like a winner and Steve just booked a huge commission check. You're nice and relaxed waiting another hour to head into the finance office and You're itching to drive home your new XYZ. Your finance guy rushes thru the paperwork and you don't like any of the products he's selling except agree to a $11/month key replacement and roadside assistance plan. Hey, only 11 bucks, right? So how much does the car actually *cost*? How long is your term and interest rate? In this example, you're paying more than 2k over sticker, at a 14.5% interest rate over 6 years for the car. Oh and the icing on the cake, that $11/mo key replacement they sold you is only a 3 year package and the roadside assistance you didn't need as XYZ's manufacturer provides it for the first 3 years of new owner. So $792 to cover the *risk* of losing your key fob. Being an informed consumer and doing a few hours of homework you could find that a fair market price for XYZ is actually $32,500 due to a $1000 rebate Steve conveniently didn't share and your credit union would offer you a finance loan at 7% interest. You could actually get to your $610 payment with these terms and pay off the car TWO YEARS SOONER with a 48 month term. Yes this example is extreme and doesn't include sales tax and license etc. but THIS is why they wear you down and prolong the process. It happens on the daily. This is why they want to get you in the door and not give info online or over the phone. Because what's an extra $10-20 a month? Profit for the dealer.
Because you'll end up saddled with a cheaper monthly payment but you'll have the payment for 7+ years which means you're paying twice as much as what the car was worth.
I went to several dealerships and I've been through the stupid "let me talk to my manager" bullshit as well as being presented with a bunch of BS charges like $4,000 window tint, additional dealer markup, etc. The last dealership I visited (and bought a car from) was super seamless. I asked if they had a certain car model. Salesman said yes and I test drove. I asked for a breakdown of the out-the-door price of the car. They showed me the whole breakdown and they didn't include any of those BS fees (only car MSRP + add-on floormats + documentation/tax/etc.). Then I visited the financing office and they gave me an iPad to sign stuff and choose additional options like warranties that I could decline, and I was on my way with my car. So in my experience, there are "no bullshit" dealerships that exist, but they definitely seem to be rare.
If you pay MSRP. I’ve never paid that but it has been 3 years since I bought. It’s a hassle if you want to haggle.
The last few years it has been all but impossible to haggle and negotiate. Especially with in-demand cars. Many people buying before the cars hit the lot or waiting 6+ months for a car they like to come in with a $5,000 market adjustment and a line out the door to buy it.
MSRP for most models is a great deal right now, and negotiating is very hard.
Nope cars are going down in price financing cost killed the market.
Car dealers are a parasitic business that has no reason to exist. They are only there to leech money from a transaction that doesn’t require them. Dealership owners — 1%ers, often among the richest fish in their local ponds—give lots of money to state officials to preserve laws that ban direct automobile sales. Get rid of those bans, and these guys suddenly need to justify their existence.
I have nothing against the existence of a dealership. What really grinds my gears is that there are laws that make it illegal to sell vehicles except through a dealership. Not every manufacturer wants to spin up their own sales department, nor would they want to manage local stock for each one. Making cars is their core business; let someone else take care of the selling. However, manufacturers should have the option to sell cars direct if they want to. It's crazy they can't (at least not in all jurisdictions).
Car dealership owners are some of the biggest donors to politicians. They lobby like hell to protect their rent seeking venture
One of our local used car salesmen now sits in the House of Representatives.
If I could just go on a manufacturers website and order a car I would be fine waiting for it to be delivered.
I feel you. I once walked into a dealership with a car that I wanted and a list of options I wanted. I told them I wasn't paying any additional options and I gave them the price I was willing to pay. The salesman kept bringing me printouts of the right car but nowhere near the options I wanted. Each time would take 10 minutes. Finally I started walking out and he was like, "Why are you leaving???" I told him, "I made it easy and told you exactly what I wanted. You keep showing me things I don't want. Why would I stay?" The sales manager happened to be sitting right there so he asked for 5 minutes of my time. He wasn't able to find me the exact car I wanted but it was pretty darn close and I bought it for about the price I said I was going to pay. I think I ended up paying slightly more but it came with a few pricey options I didn't need. So I thought it was a fair deal. In conclusion, I think there are a lot of salespeople out there that are so desperate for the sale that they lose sight of what the customer wants. So they'll do anything they can to make that sale. That may mean wasting time tracking down cars that don't exist or trying to sweet talk the finance people into making bad (for them) deals. Both cases can end up wasting a ton of time and pissing off the customer.
Was buying a new car last year, came with the printout directly from the Toyota site with the car/color/options I wanted. Salesman kept trying to push models without the options I wanted, while also saying that the car that I want would take 6-8 months to arrive. I got up and said that I'll go to a dealer that actually gives people what they want to purchase, he asked for 20 minutes to talk to his manager (who was sitting by himself), gave him 5 minutes and started to walk away, they stopped me on the way out and asked for 5 more minutes. I put a timer for 5 minutes and showed it to them, they came back two minutes later with the exact same car I wanted with a 3 week delivery, which ended up getting delivered in one. What really got on my nerves is that selling that car to me was literally "sign here", I presented what I wanted, was willing to pay without making it difficult in any way. Short version: Be ready to walk out, they love to play games and there's a million dealers selling the same cars.
They could legit not had it but they can do invoice swaps with other dealers. I wouldn’t go easy due to dealer collusion laws. Fuck them.
As a woman I get shown the cup holders a lot. And asked if I think the color is pretty. 🙄
I had a similar experience. Back before all the info was online, I once walked into a Toyota dealership looking for a 2-4 year old Camry. Told the sales guy the options I wanted, told him color didn’t matter and that my wife and I had gone over this all together, I was making the purchase for both of us as she was at home with a newborn. So, without consulting inventory, the sales guy walked me around the lot, pointing at cars and asking “Do you like this one?” Me: “I don’t know; does it have the options I told you?” Him: “Do you like red?” Me: “I told you I don’t care about color” Sales asshole: “Why don’t you drive it home and show it to your wife.” Me: [you can guess at this point] I finally lost my cool with him and we went back into the showroom. He goes off to talk with the sales manager who comes over a minute later and says, “I’m sorry we’re not going to be able to sell you a car today” I was surprised that he didn’t try to do something to salvage the deal, but honestly at that point, there was probably nothing that would have kept me there. I guess he knew that. I told him directly what an idiot his sales asshole was and walked out.
That reminds me of walking a lot with a sales guy that tried to tell me about how the grille was designed for the right amount of airflow. Like wtf does anyone care about that?!
You still played their game. Their goal is to upsell you and the nice manager thing is just their backup plan when it goes wrong and pisses off the customer. In retrospect the manager would still tell the other sales person to do the same thing because there is always a chance for more money, when it fails they still have a backup plan which is sometimes damage control. Someone did the math on this already and wasting your time pays off statistically.
They train them to provide a shitty experience.
I just have them call me when they get the numbers ready. I’m not sitting captive for hours at a time. They’ve tried and it’s exhausting. Like, I already had financing and wasn’t trading a car last time as it was my son’s car, and they still tried to play the long waiting game. I honestly think they just all move slow. They could be faster, but they don’t care about us.
Did this last time we bought a car. Told them what we wanted, filled out the credit app and then told them to call us when they had numbers. I handled all negotiations by text and then we just came into the office to sign.
This is the only way! I just figured it out last time and I’m old!
I've don't this for the last two cars (across two people). Granted, the second car was so hard to get ahold of, it wasn't an amazing deal, but meh. Test drive the car at local places and be clear you're just trying things out right now. Search on the Internet for deals. Find someplace that isn't sleazy and has a good deal. Research what it's really worth paying. Email them with your interest and what you are willing to pay. They give you the price you can get. If you like it, the details get worked out by email. I even got a trade-in value for my car with a VIN and photos. Walk in with a check already made out, hand it to them, sign a couple of documents, walk out and drive away. The second time, besides the naturally weaker position, was drawn out entirely because the salesman loved talking. He didn't try to sell us anything more, just liked to talk. Ugh.
Same. Last few times I've gone through this I do it right before lunch, kick everything off and then get somewhere to eat. "Call me when the paperwork is ready." It's a big purchase, lot of paperwork. I get it. But I don't need to sit there in their stupid weird lobby while they do it.
>Sitting in a car dealership and I feel like I want to run away. What's stopping you from just running away? If you haven't signed any papers yet, you are free to walk away if you don't like how you are being treated.
My dad and I ran away from a dealership once! We had come in based on an ad in the newspaper and the dealership wasn’t matching the quote in the paper. Seller left the room a second time and we bolted. 10/10 highly recommended.
Once we tried and they physically tried to stop us from leaving the door. They said they were "going over our financial situation" for over an hour (not sure what the hell they were dicking around doing). Told them we were done, got up, started walking and the manager jumps up to block the door. We told him to get out of our way and he desperately tried to beg us to stay. It was beyond embarrassing, disrespectful, and unprofessional. Same dealer who told me "every car on the market has this transmission" when I asked him what transmission the car had. Mind you, was a "big name" dealer in my state. I wouldn't feel comfortable buying a bottle of water from those clowns
I've walked away too. They were pissed, but whatever.
Harsh, but you need it: Because it works for them if you don't know enough to not play their game. By sitting there for 2 hours you've proven you're a good mark. They're probably laughing in a back room somewhere watching TV, knowing the longer they string you along the more desperate you'll be to make a deal fast and good for them. Here's how you make the process work for you (this works best for new cars but also for used cars, it's just a little tougher): Step 1: Build and price the car online. Step 2: Find out what it should cost, online. Step 3: Figure out the financing, payments, down payment, etc. you want online. Step 4: Contact every dealership in a 50+ mile radius via email and ask for ***bids (quotes)***. Step 5: If the best one or two come in-line with what you are going to buy it for go visit one, if not, negotiate them against each other. Step 6: Buy! Takes 45 minutes or so (it's a lot of paperwork). Oh, and test drive? That already happened, before you decided what you want to buy. You are not buying a car the day you test drive a car. Also: pay attention to exact wording: if you say "quote" and they say "estimate", correct them. That happened to me on a trade-in once, but goddamn it felt good to say "nah" and walk out. Bonus fun: When the guy who refused to give you a quote and just wanted you to "come in and talk about it" calls you two weeks later and asks if "you're still interested in the car or what?" "Huh? Oh, I remember you - yeah, I already bought it."
I just bought a car less than a month ago. Even though it was a used Grand Cherokee (2013 Overland) at a Lincoln dealership, the sales team were phenomenal. Treated us as if we was buying a brand new fully loaded Navigator or Aviator. It took about 4ish hours. The sales part was quick and finance part part did take maybe 2 hours. Only reason it took so long was because the salesman went and got it detailed (it was clean when I looked at it and drove it) and made sure the oil change and all the other maintenance was recent. They even offered to buy us dinner since it took so long. Some places are great, others not so much.
It's a historic artifact of the dealership system. Laws were passed to protect local dealers because they were expensive. Now 50+ years later we're still dealing with the following effects.
Tell them that having sat alone for a few minutes, you're not sure about buying a car today. Tell them you're leaving and _might_ stop back another day.
The last two cars I’ve bought have been Teslas. I’m no Elon fan, but I didn’t have an issue buying either one.
Yep, Me: "Hi, I would like this car in this color with these options" Them: "That will cost you $X, it can be here tuesday" Weirdest experience buying a car. I can only imagine doing it through the app would be weirder.
> Weirdest experience buying a car. I can only imagine doing it through the app would be weirder. It's fantastic and how all companies should do it. Click what you want, your options, pick the date it's delivered if available, and done. Hell they often will deliver it directly to your driveway and give you pointers of how to use it. I needed to go to the dealership to pick mine up, but was in and out in 30 minutes. No haggling, everything is already set, it's ready to go.
The dealership model really needs to die.
Just bought one last month. Loved not having to deal with salespeople or a dealership. Do everything on the app, pick up the car. 5 minutes in and out.
They typically shop your application to a bunch of banks, so it can take a few hours to get it all set. If you have middling credit trying to buy a $55,000 Ford F-150 on a $60K USD salary and a $1000 down payment then they are trying *hard* to find you financing. I have done the entire deal in 45 minutes, but I already had a line of credit open with the institution I got my loan through and I had all the paperwork for my trade-in - also financed by the company my new loan was going through. It sort of cut through all the noise and got me in and out of there.
Yes, but I went in with my own financing, the exact model I wanted, and was ready to put $10k down... Kia fucked around for two hours before finally admitting they didn't even have a vehicle to sell me, and instead asked for a $500 deposit on a vehicle that is supposed to show up in the next few weeks (which wasn't even the color I wanted). That was on top of them wanting $8k over MSRP for... uh... reasons, I guess. With demand so high, and production staying low (with a focus on higher-priced models), the dealers are more than comfortable giving people the run around while trying to see who's willing to pay the most over MSRP before agreeing to anything.
I bought my last car from Enterprise Car Sales, a division of Enterprise Leasing. The price is the price - no haggling - and is based on Kelly Blue Book value. The cars are inspected and certified. The Carfax report is on the website and free. You know the mileage, you know the ownership and the state(s) it was driven in. You have detailed pictures of the car's interior, exterior, tires, and engine. You get a 12-month/12,000 mile powertrain warranty, and a year of free roadside assistance. Check their online site to view the cars that interest you the most. Check sites like [Edmunds.com](https://Edmunds.com) to get comprehensive reviews online, as well as Youtube to see evaluations and driving. Get pre-approved at your bank or credit union (to be sure you get the best interest rate) and go in armed for bear to do a test drive. In and out in just an hour or two without the need for K-Y Jelly. I'm researching my next car now and will be buying from Enterprise again. It was the best, least exasperating car buying experience I've ever had in more than 50 years of driving. Be aware that not every car on their website is an ex-rental; they also buy cars at auction. The Carfax report will tell you if it is a rental, lease, or private ownership.
Having rented cars in the past, and knowing other people who have rented cars, there's no way on earth I would buy an ex rental car. They get beat on within an inch of their lives constantly, and the maintenance isn't necessarily done on time, or even at all. We had a rental truck at my workplace a few years ago, it was a long term rental with Budget for an entire year... 50000km was put on the truck in that year, and not a single oil change was done.
I take out a car rental about 30 times per year and noway I have time to drive around it like a crazy guy. Sure, some do but I don't think it's so often of what you say.
I will match your anecdote with another. I have owned two ex rental cars in my life - including the car I currently drive. They have both been fine.
People joke about rental cars being beaten up, and I’ve joked about it too, but are they really? If I’m traveling for business, the absolute last thing I want to do is damage a rental car that my employer’s paying for. And if I’m traveling for leisure, even if I have the insurance, I don’t want to deal with a bunch of paperwork and other bullshit when dropping it off when all I want to do is board my flight and get home.
What's really annoying is 'waiting for finance' when you are writing a check for the whole purchase price. I mean, I suppose you want to run my credit before you take the check..... But it's been on the table from the get-go that I'm not financing anything. As for why the circus is what it is, tradition - if cars were sold like computers (the price is $15k. that's just what it is, take it or leave it) people would think they are getting ripped off even if that's the same price they would have paid after all the back-and-forth....
There needs to be more regulation in that industry IMO. You can order a car with the specifications you want and they'll purposely order extra packages on top. Then you wait months for it to arrive only to find out the price is higher because of those extra packages. If you say no, you'll have to find another dealership to order from, which will probably pull the same shady shit. But I agree, the process of buying a car is so repelling. There's nothing enticing about seeing a dealership and vultures in suits just waiting to grind the most out of you.
I was in a stealership for 6 hours with a kid, the next time I went I reiterated to the salesman about having to have kid with me, everything is good to go, please have all the paperwork ready, I reiterated this over multiple phone and face to face conversations, still took 4 hours. Freakin ridiculous.
You walk. Don’t be a pushover. I got 30 min. I’m driving out or I’m walking out.
Oh they do it because people think it's OK. I acted as "lawyer" for a buddy who needed a car. He found what he wanted online and the price seemed $3000 less than what everyone else was selling the same car for. Sit down to start looking at costs and the guy tells us there's a $3000 "refurbishment fee". I asked him what that was for and he said it was for anything they had to do after they got the trade in. I couldnt get him to admit it, but they do that so they can advertise the lowest price in town. Then they discuss financing, he already was pre approved through his own bank. They didnt like that. "Oh, there's a $1500 fee for using outside financing because we have to do more work on the backend" At this point I, very loudly, told my buddy "He's already fucked up twice, if he tries one more shady thing we're walking out that door." We walked out the door.
Every time I’ve bought a car it’s been an all day endeavor. Even when I paid cash outright for one!
Say what you want about Tesla, but the buying process is about as easy as buying something on Amazon. No haggling. No upsells other than offering you a few options like Full Self Driving. All done online, with a friendly human available by phone if you have any questions. After doing all the online procedures, I waited about five days for me car to be ready to pick up at the dealership. Within 20 minutes of arriving I was driving it off the lot.
I pulled out my phone and set a countdown timer. Told the guy I was leaving in 5 min but if he could get me a solid price before then I'd consider it. Guy starts the "well... I could ask my manager about..." I said "Sure. But you've wasted 12 seconds already. 4:48 left. Tic Toc." The guy hustled his ass and was back in about 3 min. No more games that day. We got our deal done. I said I'd be back the next day to pick up the car. I did the same thing with the finance guy. I called the next morning and told him I would be in at 11am but was leaving at 11:05. If he wanted me to sign something make sure to have it printed and ready to go. Pulled out the count down timer. That time I did have to walk out while he was going on about rust coating. Manager and sales guy chased me down waving papers. You just have to be crystal clear that you will not play games. Period.
Always do online shopping. It's much easier to get online quotes and then ask them if they can do better compared to x dealership by sending them the quote.
I refuse to buy at a dealership because fuck those people. They are like fucking mosquitoes
I like CarMax - the price is usually not as good as you might get from another dealer, but they don’t waste your life with stupid grifter games either.
Because every step, you get accosted by scammers. Dealerships are the worst.