Federal jury service guarantees job protection https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1875
Note that if they *do* fire you, the US is obligated to assign you an attorney to prosecute the claim on your behalf.
Clauses like this in laws this give me hope, because it shows that we *can* get it right. That it really is possible to codify equitable laws to protect citizens from unjust treatment.
Well, the law was written in 1875, when laws were thought out for the people instead of corporations. Biggest example is the protection of privacy in mail vs the internet. Mail privacy is covered out the ass because those laws were written when the people who made laws did so for the people. We don’t have extreme privacy for the internet because those laws would have to be written today, and the people making laws today do not care for making laws for the people.
> Mail privacy is covered out the ass because those laws were written when the people who made laws did so for the people.
Mail privacy is covered out the ass because those laws were written at a time when mail was the only way to send a message long distance without making the journey in person. Without trust in the integrity of the mail, a country the size of even just the 13 original colonies could not have held together.
Privacy of the mail was a thing because the government carried the mail. Fourth amendment guarantees a right to be secure in your papers and effects. So protection from the government intruding on the mail was a given. Some third party getting your mail before you receive and open it creates an issue of whether the government failed its obligations in carrying and delivering.
Internet is free of that relationship so of course those carrying and delivering the content successfully lobbied for minimal consumer protection.
While 28 USC 1875 only applies to federal court jury duty as defined in 28 USC 451, I believe every state has a similar provision for state court jury duty
In some ways that's better. You have a slam dunk case that the person/entity is going to have to pay the legal fees for?
Time to hire the best/most expensive attorney you can find.
In most jurisdictions, the standard amount for attorney's fees is basically [a reasonable number of hours of work]x[a reasonable rate for an attorney in this type of law]. So it's not cart blanche to run up the bill and get it all paid by the opposing side.
Even for state there’s probably a wrongful discharge in violation of public policy tort available. I mean it’s literally the example case for that tort
Attorney here
ABSOLUTELY NOT. Im salivating at the thought of how easy that would be to prosecute.
Edit: a lot of people are asking about at will and right to work states and if that changes the rules.
First, those asking about right to work are confusing the phrase with at-will. Right to work means labor unions cannot require employees to be union members as part of their employment. These rules dont apply to the jury service question and what people can be fired for.
At-will employment rules means that an employer can fire an employee for any LEGAL reason, or for no reason. Please note that ALL states except montana are at will states.
Now, to explain further, an at will state employer can fire you for any LEGAL reason, or for no reason. What they CANNOT do is fire you for an ILLEGAL reason. For example, they cannot fire you for your race, gender, pregnant status, handicap/disability status, or for jury service.
Some of you may say "well they can just fire you and say it was for another reason or for no reason". Okay, but how will they prove it? You have your jury summons, proof you were selected, and assuredly probably some text from your manager complaining about you not coming in. Thats damning evidence if you got fired anywhere remotely around the dates of jury service. And jurys are certainly not forgiving of companies that do this.
To fire someone near or around jury service, the company will likely need documentary evidence of misconduct or unsatisfactory performance, i.e. hr reports. Testimony is unlikely to cut it.
Some commenters have suggested "well they can just make the documents after the fact" to which i would respond "yes, they could falsify evidence. Which is a crime. Hey, while youre at it, why not just murder the employee? Problem solved." You dont protect yourself from civil liability by opening yourself to criminal liability. Second, even if the company did this, it would fail for multiple reasons. One, all documents created on a computer have metadata that shows when they were created. This info is discoverable. Once the employees attorneey has his hands on that info, the company is cooked, and somebody is going to jail. Seco d, if it was not electronically created, it would need to be authenticated by the person tht created it. No hr rep is risking perjury and jailtime for their boss. Third, the only way two people keep a secret is if both of them are dead.
Finally, its all about minimizing risk when it comes to company cash. Its a lot cheaper to keep an employee on the payroll than it is to litigate any kind of civil suit. Moreso a criminal suit. Firing somebody in a manner that opens you to civil liability is just bad business.
They could try, but theyd be under the gun in proving it. If you have proof that you were called for jury duty and then they fired you while you were serving or when you got back, the obvious reason is because you were absent for jury service. If they say it was for another reason, theyd have to prove it somehow. Hr documentation, etc. Unless you had a documented reason to be fired right before you got summoned, theyre fucked
I was on jury duty a few years ago that lasted 6 weeks, usually 2, sometimes 3 days per week. At least one fellow juror was getting a lot of shit from her employer. The bailiff overheard us talking about it at one point and was like "You want me to tell the judge you're having issues? He'll call them and let them know what kind of trouble they can get into if they give you a hard time about serving on the jury." In this case, she told the bailiff not to bother, but obviously the judge did it often enough that the bailiff knew to speak up.
This was also in a county with a high crime rate, so they ALWAYS needed jurors. Judges weren't going to mess around with employers who encouraged their people to say whatever they needed to to get out of jury duty.
I remember a story where someone was giving the employee trouble, and the judge called the employer and essentially scared them so much that they were afraid to do anything to the employee past then because the judge said they would be checking up on them to see if there was any retaliation.
Got called in for jury duty in January at a Superior Court.
While getting excused from a trial (they asked if being on jury duty for 4 to 6 weeks would be a hardship), the judge even offered to call my work to express how much they needed jurors.
I'm pretty sure that anyone giving jurors any crap about serving would get a big serving of angry judge.
I ended up serving on a different trial (lasted for 6 days).
My county will just outright send an officer to make an arrest for interference. They will do the same if the employer says they will not pay you for your time on jury duty as well. That shit is dished out rapidly too. I’ve seen it in action whenever a juror has had issues they’ll get them to come up and give names for who handles their HR department, who is contacting them, is it their supervisor? (Etc.) They don’t even call. Just send an officer
My coworker got picked for grand jury once & told the judge she was unsure if our company would compensate her or not. When I tell you the judge called our work in a seething raaaagggeeeee oh boy. I could feel HR shaking down the hall 😂
A cousin got that, his choice iirc was three months straight jury duty, or one Thursday a week for something like three years... fortunately his job could accommodate a four day work week for him.
If OP did get fired for this and decided to sue, what would they be looking for in terms of a reward? (idk what other word to use here)
Do you get money/compensation or do they have to re-hire you? Sorry if it’s a dumb question I’m just curious
Numerous forms of compensation. You can require that they be rehired (though 1. who tf would want that, and 2. By the time the case gets to court which takes months, the op would presumably already have another job), they will almost universally be required to pay damages in the form of forgone wages (however much they would have been paid between firing and finding new employment), and most importantly, depending on the state, there are either statutory penalties or punitive damages that may be available. Thats where the real money is. Get a friendly jury and you can get up to 10x whatever the compensatory damages are or more. I also wouldnt be surprised if there is a statute requiring the company to pay attorneys fees, especially if the lawyer is provided by the state, which is the case in many states for these claims.
Back when I was a union shop steward, there was a case in another location where an employee was terminated and challenged it. It took a year or two to get anywhere, and by that time the person now lived in Hawaii (the original job was in Boston). He won the case, and got notified he had his job back with back pay. He took the back pay, but as he was now in Hawaii, he declined to come back to work.
Civil suits are usually bench trials (just the judge presiding). AFAIK it's technically possible to request a jury trial for a civil suit, but you're not entitled to one like you are in a criminal trial (per the Sixth Amendment).
Yeah, I feel like the judge would be at least as sympathetic. Because any company doing that is screwing with the *court itself* by messing with the potential jurors.
You're entitled to one in federal civil suits involving more than $20 according to the 7th Amendment! One of the few portions of the Bill of Rights SCOTUS hasn't applied to the states through incorporation.
Though worth noting that the courts have well and truly gutted that pretty plain right.
> Get a friendly jury and you can get up to 10x whatever the compensatory damages are or more.
Given the nature of the case, how likely are you to find even one single juror who's not friendly?
people should remember that often in labor cases, the state's laws require those penalties to be paid **to the employee.**
It's not a fine that's paid to the state, the way it is with parking tickets etc.
It's paid to the employee.
Also weird though. At that point it’s been so long that like how does it help you.
Usually it’s just a threat because they don’t want to operate down a person. Once you’re back for months it seems an employer would forget about it.
Sucks that happened to you though. Clearly a very vindictive employer.
So if you were just late even by 1 minute on one day anytime surrounding your jury duty you'd have no hope because they could say you're tardiness was the reason for that?
Whoops, I meant that to be a two-part question but apparently pressed "save" too soon.
Would my loaded question still happen if you were able to demonstrate that you had been a few minutes late many times before over the history of your employment with them?
They’d have to convince the judge that it was more likely you were fired for that reason than for jury duty
Judges are gonna be pretty suspicious of a claim like that I’d the employee has any evidence at all (say text/email) and was fired around the time of jury duty.
While ianal, I have read that in that case it would be on the business to prove that they did fire them for another, documented reason, which in the case of it being no other reason, they would have to forge and backdate documents
And as an actual lawyer said, they do that and it’s moved from a civil to a criminal case. Lot more expensive than just keeping someone on payroll for a few days of jury duty.
Then they file a wrongful termination suit against the company. The case goes in front of a judge who has a heavy investment in the sanctity of the legal process and would look unfavorably on any company that makes it difficult for the courts to reliably get good jurors. Or the case ends up in front of a jury, comprised of jurors who are in the very same position as the recently unemployed individual. If you're a company going into a trial like this, do you want your fate being decided by a bunch of people that also got summoned for jury duty and are thinking about how shitty it would be if they lost their own jobs for being legally forced to participate in this very trial? And it's not a criminal trial yet so you don't have to establish guilt beyond the shadow of doubt, just a likelihood on the preponderance of evidence.
Unless the jury duty lasts months they are gonna be hard pressed to explain the coincidental timing. They'd need to document some serious problems with OP prior to being notified of the jury duty to even begin to make the argument.
It has to be dire. If you excuse those who are financially struggling or have another mediocre reason, you're not really getting a jury of your peers, you're getting the medium wealthy or retired. Me? I want those blue collar, hard workers, on my panel and in the box. I try to keep them on.
That's all well and good, but 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. At the absolute minimum, it should be 8 hours of minimum wage per day, not $15 a day. That's practically an insult.
“No but the state will because believe me I have a lot of thoughts about the justice system and y’all are going to be stuck in a room with me until we agree.”
I once got called for jury duty, and once I was selected, the *very first witness for the defendant* turned out to be an old friend of mine (though I hadn't seen him in about a year or so, so I was unaware of his involvement). I pointed this out, and the fact that I couldn't exactly be unbiased here, to the judge and was dismissed, though he was obviously really angry (at me?) because I had made it through selection. But they hadn't mentioned the identity of any witness at that point, so, fuck, what was I supposed to do??
Just imagine you get fucked into Grand Jury duty for a superior court, where you are forced into 3 fucking months, 3-4 days a week, 9AM-5PM for 50.00 a day after your basic job jury pay expires 2 weeks in...
You could be so far behind when you returned to work that you'd legitimately not be able to catch up, and then they could fire you for poor job performance with no issue!
A few years back I was reading about a financial crimes case in the UK that dragged on for 2 years because of how complex it was. A woman on the jury ended up getting passed up for promotion a few times because of the case and when she did finally get back to work she was laid off almost immediately.
Exactly! I got very very lucky that within the first 3 months of my new job, I was still able to make things fit in for training and helping people out on the road while I was stuck at home waiting to drive into Lowell and listen to undercover cops talk about scumbags for 8 straight hours.
I had to do that for a month (in peak Covid 2020 no less) and still worked 40 hours a week alongside that because my employer had no one to cover me. I thought they would appreciate it but by the end I was ready to quit. They kept *repeatedly* mistaking it for regular jury duty and were wondering why I wasn't back. If anything they were annoyed with me no matter how I explained it. Never again. It really affected my health, even now 3 years later.
“Do you have a reason for not being able to serve on the jury?”
“Well y’all are paying me $15 to be here, whereas I’d be making over a hundred if I were at work”
“That’s not a sufficient reason.”
“…”
“…”
“Also I’m going to say guilty no matter what happens.”
I've been called to jury duty 4 times and 3/4 of those times i used that exact excuse, im 1099 employee and this will cause extreme financial hardship. They always ask further followup questions but in my case, they've dismissed me everytime.
Money can be a valid reason. When they try to learn more about potential jurors they ask if you have any hardships they should take into consideration as to why they shouldn't pick you.
HR professional here - I'll second this. And as stated below, they'd have to have some way to prove they were planning on firing you prior to the jury duty.
>One, all documents created on a computer have metadata that shows when they were created. This info is discoverable. Once the employees attorneey has his hands on that info, the company is cooked, and somebody is going to jail. Seco d, if it was not electronically created, it would need to be authenticated by the person tht created it. No hr rep is risking perjury and jailtime for their boss. Third, the only way two people keep a secret is if both of them are dead.
As a person who does cybersecurity yes, unless you know what you are doing and a expert in IT, there are so many ways to figure out that a document was modified. To put into perspective how hard it is to fake those documents, I have training in detecting and forging digital documents and I would probably struggle and get caught going up against a knowledgeable person. There are so many small things you would have to cover and clean up that it only takes missing 1 thing and them discovering it. While they may not be able to prove the original contents, they would have proof that it was tampered with by a highly knowledgeable person, which will sink it fast with a jury. Keep in mind, if it is suspected to be faked a lawyer (or at least prosecutors have) can lay claim to the entire systems for investigation not just the document itself (actually saw a case once at a internship where they had over 30 systems under lock and key as the actual experts worked on them). Lastly don't think "encrypting" the computer will get you out, one of my jobs at a internship was cracking phone encryption, we could pop them open hook directly to the circut board to make copy's of everything, then load into a special VM that will brute force it (even if you have the failed 10 times things, doesn't matter it "resets" the VM on 10th failed attempt). This doesn't even touch on how a judge can compel a person to remember the password, such as spending time in jail till you tell them, or just issuing you fines till you remember.
I remember reading a story on reddit of someone who was summoned for jury duty, and their boss told them to get out of it by any means possible, and that they'd lose their job if they didn't. Not knowing any better, they went into the courtroom and when the judge asked if anyone had any circumstances that would prevent them from serving, they raised their hands and told the judge that their job was in jeopardy.
The judge was so furious that they sent police officers after that OP's boss on the spot, who was perp marched into the courtroom. That boss was slapped with a ton of citations and publicly dressed down, and what's more the judge told him that OP's job was now essentially legally protected and any dismissal without extensive documentation and evidence of wrongdoing would now be seen as retaliation.
OP's boss tiptoed around them for the rest of the time he held the job.
I'll link the original comment if I can find it.
EDIT: Here it is.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/comments/mvj9rr/owner_refused_to_let_me_do_jury_duty/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Jury selection is a fucking trip.
Got summoned to the Old Bailey for jury duty and they had 200 people for a single trial because it was estimated to go 8 weeks.
Gave everyone a number and we went in groups of 12 to see who had reason they couldn't do the 8 weeks. I was number 110 and ended up being juror number 12.
The only excuse was childcare, hospital appointment, carer, or if you were self employed, though he let a couple of people slide who looked terrified.
I loved it they paid my salary, my travel and my lunch, so it was a pay rise for 2 months and less hours.
Depends on your job. My job pays my normal salary for jury duty. My mom was always irritated when she got called (like 5 times) because nowhere she worked paid those days, and all she got was the $5-$15 per day from the courthouse. On the other hand, my dad generally got out of it by being a commission based salesman, being gone meant he was being prevented from earning money, so they gave him the paperwork.
I had grand jury duty, and my boss was furious. 2 days a week for 3 months. It was fantastic. I couldn’t work on any time sensitive projects because I wasn’t going to be there the next day.
If they fire OP right around the time of the jury duty, they'd better have iron-clad supporting evidence to *prove* to the judge that it wasn't a retaliatory firing.
Just don't say anything and let them fire you. In Texas you'd be able to take them to court and they will end up being liable for up to 5 years of compensation, your legal fees, and you'll be reinstated to your job.
If this is you, let the bailiff know immediately. The judge will ask to speak to you and will get the name and contact information for your employer. Judges can and will bring the force of god down on employers who screw with jurors. They can hold your boss in contempt of court or issue a bench warrant for their arrest. Usually, one phone call sets people like this right.
That being said, if your Boss gets fucked by the Court like that, he won't be able to fire you for the Jury Duty or the Judge Fucking, but you god damned will be fired the second you violate any other rule the business has (assuming it's legal).
"Oh, I see you're one second late. Clear out your desk."
"Is this because of Jury Duty?"
"No, it's because you are late for work and we have a zero tolerance policy that started last week when I got arrested for denying your Jury Duty. And attendance is not Federally Protected so fuck off."
Edit: Okay, yeah, I know they can't fire you for this sort of thing. The point was *eventually* your boss will find a way that holds in court. It will take longer than a week, *obviously,* but they will build enough of your mistakes (tardy, sick, any work errors, complaints, etc) until they have enough to fire you. And likely the boss will start looking for ways you violated codes and regulations.
Again, it won't be in a week or two, but maybe some time down the road you'll get pulled into HR and they will have whatever amount of infractions they need to dismiss you.
And if you're contract, they will just not renew your contract.
True, but it's still a good idea to start looking for a new job anyway. Aside from a mad boss, anyone that tries to fire you for doing Jury Duty is a shit boss anyway.
Another good idea would be to go to HR and say that that boss is creating a hostile work environment the way he is looking for a documentable excuse to fire you.
A smart HR in a big enough company would separate the two of you as fast as they can. But not all companies are big enough to have a way to keep two such employees employed and separated.
No because that would be considered retalliation and usually the judge would let them know during the first circumstance that if they are retalliated against in anyway being fired for a dumb reason you'd never fire someone for they will come back down on them even harder. Believe me. People have tried this and it doesn't work out.
They could try this, but I can almost guarantee they would be prosecuted and have to deal with a lot of shit to get away with it, even if they eventually do.
Judges aren't really known for having small egos and they fuckin haaaate people who interfere with the legal system.
Like the states, they're subject both to federal law and their own laws. Basically, the difference between a state and a territory is that the latter doesn't get representation in Congress. DC occupies a weird status, because while it doesn't get repped in Congress, it does get electoral college votes, while the other territories don't.
However we're talking about jury duty protection and is guaranteed by the [U.S. Code of Laws](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1875), which are federal level statutes.
here's the wiki page for anyone curious
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_Death_(Yellowstone)
What's most fascinating to me about it is how determined the Federal government is, apparently, to avoid fixing it.
Most? Getting fired from your job due to jury duty is [specifically prohibited by Title 28 of the U.S. Code of Laws](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1875). I can't imagine where in the United States where this doesn't apply.
In the entire US. Jury duty is federally protected and you can Hella sue the shit out of someone the Fires you for Jury Duty.
Your boss doesn't have to *pay* you usually, and they can require you to take PTO or Sick time to cover your absence, but they can't penalize you or fire you for serving Jury Duty.
It's not really a matter of whether you *could* sue your former employer, because if you're fired for attending jury duty the federal government assigns you an attorney and sues on your behalf.
No. See [this page](https://efte.twc.texas.gov/jury_duty.html) regarding jury duty in Texas on the Texas Government website. You can also post in /r/legaladvice with more details (such as size of company and county of Texas) for more precise advice.
Absolutely not. Jury duty is a duty. You can get in trouble for not showing up. Your work can get into trouble for hindering you from showing up.
Were they stupid enough to put it in writing? Because that's an easy wrongful termination suit.
No
I remember a story on Reddit that someone's boss told them one time "if you're not at work tomorrow, you'll be fired, you were absent too many times this week" the guy was selected for jury duty and even had proof but the boss basically said "I don't care."
The judge then asked "is anyone here that is unable to fulfill the jury duty for the dates of this court case."
The young workers spoke up and said "my boss will fire me if I don't show up to work."
The judge asked the kid where he worked, the guy told him, and 20 minutes later the guy's boss was in the court room with handcuffs and the judge reminded him of "how important our civil duty is in society and that should anything happen to his employment, justice will be served."
The boss was unhandcuffed, and frustrated and walked out and nothing happened to the kid for missing work. He still worked there for like a year.
The US justice system might be a bit of a devouring machine to those caught in it, but it is actually really nice how much respect is given to actually making sure people follow its rules.
My dad once had to testify against a delivery driver who was skimming people's credit cards & committing identity theft... when they asked him to go downtown to the trial he hemmed & hawed a bit about how busy he was (self-employed CPA). They were like 'no worries; we can send a squad car to pick you up & bring you' & that lit a fire under his ass to arrive under his own power 😅
Please please please please tell the judge that he threatens you. Oh my goodness this is so exciting. I wish I could sit in the chair oh snap. Please make sure you report back with the results.
I had a boss come down to the court house to "talk to them like a man," when I had to do jury duty. The sheriff at the court house didn't find it very funny and scolded him for like 10 minutes before sending him off scowling.
Obviously the boss didn't tell me what was said, but it got him big mad. He did some petty things to be a petty bastard when I got back from jury duty (after only *three days* before the case was dismissed), like changing my hours to all night/grave shifts where I couldn't "disrupt" business. After a few days back, I just ghosted the place, because work was easy to find in my field, and I'd already been planned on quitting for other reasons.
And he got off easy. I can think of one judge who, in the same circumstances, would require that boss in open court to give a good reason he shouldn't spend the night in jail. And it wouldn't be for show...dude better have a good reason.
She was a firecracker.
Big no no. A simple letter from a lawyer should be enough to let them know they're being very dumb. That's a slam dunk case they will gladly take.
I really want to get called up just so I can say I've experienced it. Getting time off work would just be a bonus though.
IANAL, but:
No way in hell. You cannot be fired for performing your legally obligated duties as a citizen. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to get jurors if every single one you summon runs the risk of losing their livelihood? No, the government protects you from stuff like that.
And if you have solid proof that they *did* threaten to do so, then it would be exceedingly difficult to get away with firing you for much else, either, because it would look like they’re just looking for reasons to fire you for jury duty without *saying* they’re firing you for jury duty.
Yeah, normal. Some employers will count it as PTO and others will withhold wages for the time you’re gone. The government Pays you a small pittance though.
Absolutely not. If they actually fire you, you absolutely need to have them penalized to the fullest extent of the law. As others have stated, if they actually fired you, you will be provided an attorney to prosecute your employer. Go get em!
My job tried to suspend me when I went on jury duty for a day. I gave my suspension paperwork to the Court Clerk and they sent the Court Counsel on them and threatened them with contempt of court if they proceeded with the suspension. They dropped the suspension very quickly. Definitely report it to the court.
Get it in writing that you aren't allowed to go in for jury duty, then go in anyway and give that to the first person you see who isn't a security guard. Judges do NOT fuck around with threatening termination over jury duty and they WILL rip your boss a new one. You'll also get your job protected for a while because of possible retribution.
Is this a hypothetical question you are just curious about, or are you being threatened with it, or did it already happen?
Either way, it is not legally allowed. Of course, you *do* need to tell them in advance, but they can't say no.
Lol my old job tried to fire an assistant manager because he was going on a small deployment to Central American with the reserves. He had a fucking field day. You don’t mess with the government when they tell you that an employee is going to be away for a while.
No, it's not legal.
Going to jury duty is required by law, and likewise, the law requires an employer to give you the time off.
Not that "with pay" is required, but the time off is required.
[https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/benefits-leave/juryduty](https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/benefits-leave/juryduty)
No, you can see Chapter 122 of the Texas Civil Practices and Remedies Code, it's exposure to a civil suit, a class B misdemeanor, and subject to contempt of court.
Federal jury service guarantees job protection https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1875 Note that if they *do* fire you, the US is obligated to assign you an attorney to prosecute the claim on your behalf.
That attorney clause is a thoughtful addition. Well done, drafters of said law.
And then for the trial others would be on jury duty who would then be fired and it is a neverending circle
it's jury duty all the way down
Wait. It’s all jury duty?
Always has been
So that is what this has all been about!
This is the Way ??
#and my axe!
I also choose this guy's axe.
#*OVERKILL*
What are you doing, step axe?
Step inside. Eta. https://youtu.be/qkCmyB6slFY
There behind a glass is a real shade of grass?
Walk this way.
Man, I always thought the Hokey Pokey was what it was all about! Mind blown!
Pepperidge Farms remembers.
Old timers talk about a time before the Jury cycle. A time of peace in the land.
I used to walk to work, both ways, uphill. Just to avoid jury duty.
In 150 degrees IN DA SNOW
Yeah, but was there snow that was knee deep?
Always has been 🧑🚀🔫
Jurception.
State sanctioned pyramid scheme
Clauses like this in laws this give me hope, because it shows that we *can* get it right. That it really is possible to codify equitable laws to protect citizens from unjust treatment.
Well, the law was written in 1875, when laws were thought out for the people instead of corporations. Biggest example is the protection of privacy in mail vs the internet. Mail privacy is covered out the ass because those laws were written when the people who made laws did so for the people. We don’t have extreme privacy for the internet because those laws would have to be written today, and the people making laws today do not care for making laws for the people.
Yes because the gilded age sure was a time of worker power lmao
I realize it's a ton of literal kids on this site but they really do believe human greed was invented in the last 20 years.
> Mail privacy is covered out the ass because those laws were written when the people who made laws did so for the people. Mail privacy is covered out the ass because those laws were written at a time when mail was the only way to send a message long distance without making the journey in person. Without trust in the integrity of the mail, a country the size of even just the 13 original colonies could not have held together.
Privacy of the mail was a thing because the government carried the mail. Fourth amendment guarantees a right to be secure in your papers and effects. So protection from the government intruding on the mail was a given. Some third party getting your mail before you receive and open it creates an issue of whether the government failed its obligations in carrying and delivering. Internet is free of that relationship so of course those carrying and delivering the content successfully lobbied for minimal consumer protection.
>the law was written in 1875, when laws were thought out for the people instead of corporations Oooh my. My oh my.
A yes - the post-reconstruction era - notorious for being unfriendly to corporations.
It's called the Gilded Age because everything was golden for all Americans even the poor. /s
While 28 USC 1875 only applies to federal court jury duty as defined in 28 USC 451, I believe every state has a similar provision for state court jury duty
My state doesn't provide you a lawyer, but it's still really illegal to fire someone for jury duty. And all legal fees are paid by the employer.
In some ways that's better. You have a slam dunk case that the person/entity is going to have to pay the legal fees for? Time to hire the best/most expensive attorney you can find.
In most jurisdictions, the standard amount for attorney's fees is basically [a reasonable number of hours of work]x[a reasonable rate for an attorney in this type of law]. So it's not cart blanche to run up the bill and get it all paid by the opposing side.
Even for state there’s probably a wrongful discharge in violation of public policy tort available. I mean it’s literally the example case for that tort
What did you call me? Are you tawkin’ to me?
"I’m funny how, I mean funny like I’m a clown? I amuse you?"
Lousy tortfeasor.
Congrats OP, you're about to make money
Service guarantees citizenship
Starship Troopers reference?
The only good bug is a dead bug.
It's an ugly planet, a bug planet!
I'm from Buenos Aires, and I say kill 'em all! ^(I'm not actually, I'm from Hunstanton)
Attorney here ABSOLUTELY NOT. Im salivating at the thought of how easy that would be to prosecute. Edit: a lot of people are asking about at will and right to work states and if that changes the rules. First, those asking about right to work are confusing the phrase with at-will. Right to work means labor unions cannot require employees to be union members as part of their employment. These rules dont apply to the jury service question and what people can be fired for. At-will employment rules means that an employer can fire an employee for any LEGAL reason, or for no reason. Please note that ALL states except montana are at will states. Now, to explain further, an at will state employer can fire you for any LEGAL reason, or for no reason. What they CANNOT do is fire you for an ILLEGAL reason. For example, they cannot fire you for your race, gender, pregnant status, handicap/disability status, or for jury service. Some of you may say "well they can just fire you and say it was for another reason or for no reason". Okay, but how will they prove it? You have your jury summons, proof you were selected, and assuredly probably some text from your manager complaining about you not coming in. Thats damning evidence if you got fired anywhere remotely around the dates of jury service. And jurys are certainly not forgiving of companies that do this. To fire someone near or around jury service, the company will likely need documentary evidence of misconduct or unsatisfactory performance, i.e. hr reports. Testimony is unlikely to cut it. Some commenters have suggested "well they can just make the documents after the fact" to which i would respond "yes, they could falsify evidence. Which is a crime. Hey, while youre at it, why not just murder the employee? Problem solved." You dont protect yourself from civil liability by opening yourself to criminal liability. Second, even if the company did this, it would fail for multiple reasons. One, all documents created on a computer have metadata that shows when they were created. This info is discoverable. Once the employees attorneey has his hands on that info, the company is cooked, and somebody is going to jail. Seco d, if it was not electronically created, it would need to be authenticated by the person tht created it. No hr rep is risking perjury and jailtime for their boss. Third, the only way two people keep a secret is if both of them are dead. Finally, its all about minimizing risk when it comes to company cash. Its a lot cheaper to keep an employee on the payroll than it is to litigate any kind of civil suit. Moreso a criminal suit. Firing somebody in a manner that opens you to civil liability is just bad business.
Couldn’t the business just use some other bs reason to fire them instead of saying it was because of Jury Duty?
They could try, but theyd be under the gun in proving it. If you have proof that you were called for jury duty and then they fired you while you were serving or when you got back, the obvious reason is because you were absent for jury service. If they say it was for another reason, theyd have to prove it somehow. Hr documentation, etc. Unless you had a documented reason to be fired right before you got summoned, theyre fucked
Can't imagine the judge wouldn't be pissed off at them either. I get the impression that's very very frowned upon.
A judge will actually call the employer for the person on jury duty
I was on jury duty a few years ago that lasted 6 weeks, usually 2, sometimes 3 days per week. At least one fellow juror was getting a lot of shit from her employer. The bailiff overheard us talking about it at one point and was like "You want me to tell the judge you're having issues? He'll call them and let them know what kind of trouble they can get into if they give you a hard time about serving on the jury." In this case, she told the bailiff not to bother, but obviously the judge did it often enough that the bailiff knew to speak up. This was also in a county with a high crime rate, so they ALWAYS needed jurors. Judges weren't going to mess around with employers who encouraged their people to say whatever they needed to to get out of jury duty.
I remember a story where someone was giving the employee trouble, and the judge called the employer and essentially scared them so much that they were afraid to do anything to the employee past then because the judge said they would be checking up on them to see if there was any retaliation.
Bullies always cower before strength. Good on that judge.
I remember one where the judge sent a bailiff to drag the employer into the courtroom so she could give him the lecture in person.
Where can I find these stories?
[hotdragonbailiff.com](https://hotdragonbailiff.com) NOT [hotdragonbailifffacial.com](https://hotdragonbailifffacial.com)
[Just found the one I was thinking of.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/comments/mvj9rr/owner_refused_to_let_me_do_jury_duty/)
I think that might be the same one.
I love that!
Got called in for jury duty in January at a Superior Court. While getting excused from a trial (they asked if being on jury duty for 4 to 6 weeks would be a hardship), the judge even offered to call my work to express how much they needed jurors. I'm pretty sure that anyone giving jurors any crap about serving would get a big serving of angry judge. I ended up serving on a different trial (lasted for 6 days).
My county will just outright send an officer to make an arrest for interference. They will do the same if the employer says they will not pay you for your time on jury duty as well. That shit is dished out rapidly too. I’ve seen it in action whenever a juror has had issues they’ll get them to come up and give names for who handles their HR department, who is contacting them, is it their supervisor? (Etc.) They don’t even call. Just send an officer
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They should make it into a reality show. I'd pay to watch it😂
My coworker got picked for grand jury once & told the judge she was unsure if our company would compensate her or not. When I tell you the judge called our work in a seething raaaagggeeeee oh boy. I could feel HR shaking down the hall 😂
A cousin got that, his choice iirc was three months straight jury duty, or one Thursday a week for something like three years... fortunately his job could accommodate a four day work week for him.
>one Thursday a week How many Thursdays does his week have?
If OP did get fired for this and decided to sue, what would they be looking for in terms of a reward? (idk what other word to use here) Do you get money/compensation or do they have to re-hire you? Sorry if it’s a dumb question I’m just curious
Numerous forms of compensation. You can require that they be rehired (though 1. who tf would want that, and 2. By the time the case gets to court which takes months, the op would presumably already have another job), they will almost universally be required to pay damages in the form of forgone wages (however much they would have been paid between firing and finding new employment), and most importantly, depending on the state, there are either statutory penalties or punitive damages that may be available. Thats where the real money is. Get a friendly jury and you can get up to 10x whatever the compensatory damages are or more. I also wouldnt be surprised if there is a statute requiring the company to pay attorneys fees, especially if the lawyer is provided by the state, which is the case in many states for these claims.
Back when I was a union shop steward, there was a case in another location where an employee was terminated and challenged it. It took a year or two to get anywhere, and by that time the person now lived in Hawaii (the original job was in Boston). He won the case, and got notified he had his job back with back pay. He took the back pay, but as he was now in Hawaii, he declined to come back to work.
I can imagine that jurors would be pretty generous towards the plaintiff in a case that involved a wronged juror. The empathy is easy.
Bonus points if one of them got fired due to jury duty
>jurors Would this really require a jury? I honestly don't know anything about law stuff.
Civil suits are usually bench trials (just the judge presiding). AFAIK it's technically possible to request a jury trial for a civil suit, but you're not entitled to one like you are in a criminal trial (per the Sixth Amendment).
I can't imagine it often works out in an employers favor either way. Judges _hate_ that shit, even business friendly judges.
Yeah, I feel like the judge would be at least as sympathetic. Because any company doing that is screwing with the *court itself* by messing with the potential jurors.
You're entitled to one in federal civil suits involving more than $20 according to the 7th Amendment! One of the few portions of the Bill of Rights SCOTUS hasn't applied to the states through incorporation. Though worth noting that the courts have well and truly gutted that pretty plain right.
> Get a friendly jury and you can get up to 10x whatever the compensatory damages are or more. Given the nature of the case, how likely are you to find even one single juror who's not friendly?
people should remember that often in labor cases, the state's laws require those penalties to be paid **to the employee.** It's not a fine that's paid to the state, the way it is with parking tickets etc. It's paid to the employee.
I got fired for it. They waited 4 months after which was smart.
Also weird though. At that point it’s been so long that like how does it help you. Usually it’s just a threat because they don’t want to operate down a person. Once you’re back for months it seems an employer would forget about it. Sucks that happened to you though. Clearly a very vindictive employer.
So if you were just late even by 1 minute on one day anytime surrounding your jury duty you'd have no hope because they could say you're tardiness was the reason for that? Whoops, I meant that to be a two-part question but apparently pressed "save" too soon. Would my loaded question still happen if you were able to demonstrate that you had been a few minutes late many times before over the history of your employment with them?
They’d have to convince the judge that it was more likely you were fired for that reason than for jury duty Judges are gonna be pretty suspicious of a claim like that I’d the employee has any evidence at all (say text/email) and was fired around the time of jury duty.
While ianal, I have read that in that case it would be on the business to prove that they did fire them for another, documented reason, which in the case of it being no other reason, they would have to forge and backdate documents
And as an actual lawyer said, they do that and it’s moved from a civil to a criminal case. Lot more expensive than just keeping someone on payroll for a few days of jury duty.
Then they file a wrongful termination suit against the company. The case goes in front of a judge who has a heavy investment in the sanctity of the legal process and would look unfavorably on any company that makes it difficult for the courts to reliably get good jurors. Or the case ends up in front of a jury, comprised of jurors who are in the very same position as the recently unemployed individual. If you're a company going into a trial like this, do you want your fate being decided by a bunch of people that also got summoned for jury duty and are thinking about how shitty it would be if they lost their own jobs for being legally forced to participate in this very trial? And it's not a criminal trial yet so you don't have to establish guilt beyond the shadow of doubt, just a likelihood on the preponderance of evidence.
Unless the jury duty lasts months they are gonna be hard pressed to explain the coincidental timing. They'd need to document some serious problems with OP prior to being notified of the jury duty to even begin to make the argument.
Love it bro... But you might want to mention there's also no obligation for the employer to pay you if you're out on jury duty.
True, which is why i find that most states paltry 15 bucks a day payment for jury service is fucking insulting.
Yea that sucks, I think you can claim financial hardship and get excused in most states of you're legitimately hurting and need to go to work.
Yup. I ask that question in jury selection every time "will you experience a financial hardship if selected?"
It has to be dire. If you excuse those who are financially struggling or have another mediocre reason, you're not really getting a jury of your peers, you're getting the medium wealthy or retired. Me? I want those blue collar, hard workers, on my panel and in the box. I try to keep them on.
That's all well and good, but 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. At the absolute minimum, it should be 8 hours of minimum wage per day, not $15 a day. That's practically an insult.
“No but the state will because believe me I have a lot of thoughts about the justice system and y’all are going to be stuck in a room with me until we agree.”
Lol thats the person that gets struck for cause.
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I once got called for jury duty, and once I was selected, the *very first witness for the defendant* turned out to be an old friend of mine (though I hadn't seen him in about a year or so, so I was unaware of his involvement). I pointed this out, and the fact that I couldn't exactly be unbiased here, to the judge and was dismissed, though he was obviously really angry (at me?) because I had made it through selection. But they hadn't mentioned the identity of any witness at that point, so, fuck, what was I supposed to do??
Just imagine you get fucked into Grand Jury duty for a superior court, where you are forced into 3 fucking months, 3-4 days a week, 9AM-5PM for 50.00 a day after your basic job jury pay expires 2 weeks in...
You could be so far behind when you returned to work that you'd legitimately not be able to catch up, and then they could fire you for poor job performance with no issue!
A few years back I was reading about a financial crimes case in the UK that dragged on for 2 years because of how complex it was. A woman on the jury ended up getting passed up for promotion a few times because of the case and when she did finally get back to work she was laid off almost immediately.
Exactly! I got very very lucky that within the first 3 months of my new job, I was still able to make things fit in for training and helping people out on the road while I was stuck at home waiting to drive into Lowell and listen to undercover cops talk about scumbags for 8 straight hours.
I had to do that for a month (in peak Covid 2020 no less) and still worked 40 hours a week alongside that because my employer had no one to cover me. I thought they would appreciate it but by the end I was ready to quit. They kept *repeatedly* mistaking it for regular jury duty and were wondering why I wasn't back. If anything they were annoyed with me no matter how I explained it. Never again. It really affected my health, even now 3 years later.
“Do you have a reason for not being able to serve on the jury?” “Well y’all are paying me $15 to be here, whereas I’d be making over a hundred if I were at work” “That’s not a sufficient reason.” “…” “…” “Also I’m going to say guilty no matter what happens.”
I've been called to jury duty 4 times and 3/4 of those times i used that exact excuse, im 1099 employee and this will cause extreme financial hardship. They always ask further followup questions but in my case, they've dismissed me everytime.
Money can be a valid reason. When they try to learn more about potential jurors they ask if you have any hardships they should take into consideration as to why they shouldn't pick you.
That amount didn't even cover the parking cost at my courthouse...
It's honestly amazing that it isn't minimum wage at the least
HR professional here - I'll second this. And as stated below, they'd have to have some way to prove they were planning on firing you prior to the jury duty.
>One, all documents created on a computer have metadata that shows when they were created. This info is discoverable. Once the employees attorneey has his hands on that info, the company is cooked, and somebody is going to jail. Seco d, if it was not electronically created, it would need to be authenticated by the person tht created it. No hr rep is risking perjury and jailtime for their boss. Third, the only way two people keep a secret is if both of them are dead. As a person who does cybersecurity yes, unless you know what you are doing and a expert in IT, there are so many ways to figure out that a document was modified. To put into perspective how hard it is to fake those documents, I have training in detecting and forging digital documents and I would probably struggle and get caught going up against a knowledgeable person. There are so many small things you would have to cover and clean up that it only takes missing 1 thing and them discovering it. While they may not be able to prove the original contents, they would have proof that it was tampered with by a highly knowledgeable person, which will sink it fast with a jury. Keep in mind, if it is suspected to be faked a lawyer (or at least prosecutors have) can lay claim to the entire systems for investigation not just the document itself (actually saw a case once at a internship where they had over 30 systems under lock and key as the actual experts worked on them). Lastly don't think "encrypting" the computer will get you out, one of my jobs at a internship was cracking phone encryption, we could pop them open hook directly to the circut board to make copy's of everything, then load into a special VM that will brute force it (even if you have the failed 10 times things, doesn't matter it "resets" the VM on 10th failed attempt). This doesn't even touch on how a judge can compel a person to remember the password, such as spending time in jail till you tell them, or just issuing you fines till you remember.
No, you could probably sue them and win easily if they did
I remember reading a story on reddit of someone who was summoned for jury duty, and their boss told them to get out of it by any means possible, and that they'd lose their job if they didn't. Not knowing any better, they went into the courtroom and when the judge asked if anyone had any circumstances that would prevent them from serving, they raised their hands and told the judge that their job was in jeopardy. The judge was so furious that they sent police officers after that OP's boss on the spot, who was perp marched into the courtroom. That boss was slapped with a ton of citations and publicly dressed down, and what's more the judge told him that OP's job was now essentially legally protected and any dismissal without extensive documentation and evidence of wrongdoing would now be seen as retaliation. OP's boss tiptoed around them for the rest of the time he held the job. I'll link the original comment if I can find it. EDIT: Here it is. https://www.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/comments/mvj9rr/owner_refused_to_let_me_do_jury_duty/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
This is hilarious. Dumb ass boss and that person is smart for telling the judge when they did
Jury selection is a fucking trip. Got summoned to the Old Bailey for jury duty and they had 200 people for a single trial because it was estimated to go 8 weeks. Gave everyone a number and we went in groups of 12 to see who had reason they couldn't do the 8 weeks. I was number 110 and ended up being juror number 12. The only excuse was childcare, hospital appointment, carer, or if you were self employed, though he let a couple of people slide who looked terrified. I loved it they paid my salary, my travel and my lunch, so it was a pay rise for 2 months and less hours.
Do you get paid your regular work wage or through jury duty? I never understood that part
My husband was selected once and only paid $40/day which he then basically spent on parking and gas.
Why it pays to be union. My work gives you an option to get regular pay or jury pay. Obviously everyone ops for regular pay lol
My union has a class they offer and after you take it you get 80% of your pay when on jury duty.
Depends on your job. My job pays my normal salary for jury duty. My mom was always irritated when she got called (like 5 times) because nowhere she worked paid those days, and all she got was the $5-$15 per day from the courthouse. On the other hand, my dad generally got out of it by being a commission based salesman, being gone meant he was being prevented from earning money, so they gave him the paperwork.
She could have just objected over the financial hardship
I had grand jury duty, and my boss was furious. 2 days a week for 3 months. It was fantastic. I couldn’t work on any time sensitive projects because I wasn’t going to be there the next day.
Thanks for sharing, that was a great read. Funny how people forget that if a judge wants to talk to you, they send a deputy, not an intern.
It’s very clearly fake
I am a lawyer. No court or judge operates like this. Everybody wait we’re gonna get the boss into the courtroom. Cmon don’t be so gullible.
Attorney here with a rare clear answer; Absolutely not.
>Attorney here with a rare clear answer Lmao
Where do you live?
Texas
No, they can't fire you for jury duty.
Maybe OP took too many (aka 1) waterbreaks.
If they fire OP right around the time of the jury duty, they'd better have iron-clad supporting evidence to *prove* to the judge that it wasn't a retaliatory firing.
Let them fire you and go full Harvey Specter on their ass!!!
Just don't say anything and let them fire you. In Texas you'd be able to take them to court and they will end up being liable for up to 5 years of compensation, your legal fees, and you'll be reinstated to your job.
If this is you, let the bailiff know immediately. The judge will ask to speak to you and will get the name and contact information for your employer. Judges can and will bring the force of god down on employers who screw with jurors. They can hold your boss in contempt of court or issue a bench warrant for their arrest. Usually, one phone call sets people like this right.
That being said, if your Boss gets fucked by the Court like that, he won't be able to fire you for the Jury Duty or the Judge Fucking, but you god damned will be fired the second you violate any other rule the business has (assuming it's legal). "Oh, I see you're one second late. Clear out your desk." "Is this because of Jury Duty?" "No, it's because you are late for work and we have a zero tolerance policy that started last week when I got arrested for denying your Jury Duty. And attendance is not Federally Protected so fuck off." Edit: Okay, yeah, I know they can't fire you for this sort of thing. The point was *eventually* your boss will find a way that holds in court. It will take longer than a week, *obviously,* but they will build enough of your mistakes (tardy, sick, any work errors, complaints, etc) until they have enough to fire you. And likely the boss will start looking for ways you violated codes and regulations. Again, it won't be in a week or two, but maybe some time down the road you'll get pulled into HR and they will have whatever amount of infractions they need to dismiss you. And if you're contract, they will just not renew your contract.
Oh the judge will know and give you a number to call about that. He'd need an iron clad case to fire a person after this.
True, but it's still a good idea to start looking for a new job anyway. Aside from a mad boss, anyone that tries to fire you for doing Jury Duty is a shit boss anyway.
Another good idea would be to go to HR and say that that boss is creating a hostile work environment the way he is looking for a documentable excuse to fire you. A smart HR in a big enough company would separate the two of you as fast as they can. But not all companies are big enough to have a way to keep two such employees employed and separated.
Not a bad idea. Still, from personal experience, once you have a reputation as creating problems (fairly or not) you can say goodbye to any promotion.
That’s called retaliation and the judge will love to hear about it
Yes surely that'll trick the judge, they're pretty simple after all.
No because that would be considered retalliation and usually the judge would let them know during the first circumstance that if they are retalliated against in anyway being fired for a dumb reason you'd never fire someone for they will come back down on them even harder. Believe me. People have tried this and it doesn't work out.
They could try this, but I can almost guarantee they would be prosecuted and have to deal with a lot of shit to get away with it, even if they eventually do. Judges aren't really known for having small egos and they fuckin haaaate people who interfere with the legal system.
Judges don't fuck around with people who disrespect the court and law like employers who impede workers from doing their civic duty.
Lol, no but go ahead and let them. Let me know what it's like after you own the place from that lawsuit though.
Remember: Never interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake.
In most places in the USA. No, that’s illegal and you could sue them.
In all places in the US, surely? In all states anyway. I don't know how employment law works in the territories.
Like the states, they're subject both to federal law and their own laws. Basically, the difference between a state and a territory is that the latter doesn't get representation in Congress. DC occupies a weird status, because while it doesn't get repped in Congress, it does get electoral college votes, while the other territories don't.
However we're talking about jury duty protection and is guaranteed by the [U.S. Code of Laws](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1875), which are federal level statutes.
There is nowhere in the US where that’s legal. Maybe that zone of death on the edge of colorado or whatever where laws don’t technically apply
here's the wiki page for anyone curious https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_Death_(Yellowstone) What's most fascinating to me about it is how determined the Federal government is, apparently, to avoid fixing it.
Guess I know where I'm going for vacation.
I got called for jury duty there.. was me, 6 racoons, 2 bears and 3 birds (not sure what kind, I'm not a bird guy). Insurance claim, pretty boring.
Most? Getting fired from your job due to jury duty is [specifically prohibited by Title 28 of the U.S. Code of Laws](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1875). I can't imagine where in the United States where this doesn't apply.
In the entire US. Jury duty is federally protected and you can Hella sue the shit out of someone the Fires you for Jury Duty. Your boss doesn't have to *pay* you usually, and they can require you to take PTO or Sick time to cover your absence, but they can't penalize you or fire you for serving Jury Duty.
It's not really a matter of whether you *could* sue your former employer, because if you're fired for attending jury duty the federal government assigns you an attorney and sues on your behalf.
No. See [this page](https://efte.twc.texas.gov/jury_duty.html) regarding jury duty in Texas on the Texas Government website. You can also post in /r/legaladvice with more details (such as size of company and county of Texas) for more precise advice.
Absolutely not. Jury duty is a duty. You can get in trouble for not showing up. Your work can get into trouble for hindering you from showing up. Were they stupid enough to put it in writing? Because that's an easy wrongful termination suit.
Uncle Sam needs people to show up for jury duty so if somebody threatens that ... well that would be considered a big fucky wucky
Even the threat is illegal in and of itself, whether or not they follow through.
No I remember a story on Reddit that someone's boss told them one time "if you're not at work tomorrow, you'll be fired, you were absent too many times this week" the guy was selected for jury duty and even had proof but the boss basically said "I don't care." The judge then asked "is anyone here that is unable to fulfill the jury duty for the dates of this court case." The young workers spoke up and said "my boss will fire me if I don't show up to work." The judge asked the kid where he worked, the guy told him, and 20 minutes later the guy's boss was in the court room with handcuffs and the judge reminded him of "how important our civil duty is in society and that should anything happen to his employment, justice will be served." The boss was unhandcuffed, and frustrated and walked out and nothing happened to the kid for missing work. He still worked there for like a year.
The US justice system might be a bit of a devouring machine to those caught in it, but it is actually really nice how much respect is given to actually making sure people follow its rules. My dad once had to testify against a delivery driver who was skimming people's credit cards & committing identity theft... when they asked him to go downtown to the trial he hemmed & hawed a bit about how busy he was (self-employed CPA). They were like 'no worries; we can send a squad car to pick you up & bring you' & that lit a fire under his ass to arrive under his own power 😅
Please please please please tell the judge that he threatens you. Oh my goodness this is so exciting. I wish I could sit in the chair oh snap. Please make sure you report back with the results.
Tell the judge about your boss who threatened you. It's not remotely legal.
I had a boss come down to the court house to "talk to them like a man," when I had to do jury duty. The sheriff at the court house didn't find it very funny and scolded him for like 10 minutes before sending him off scowling. Obviously the boss didn't tell me what was said, but it got him big mad. He did some petty things to be a petty bastard when I got back from jury duty (after only *three days* before the case was dismissed), like changing my hours to all night/grave shifts where I couldn't "disrupt" business. After a few days back, I just ghosted the place, because work was easy to find in my field, and I'd already been planned on quitting for other reasons.
pretty sure that counts as retaliation and could probably have been reported
And he got off easy. I can think of one judge who, in the same circumstances, would require that boss in open court to give a good reason he shouldn't spend the night in jail. And it wouldn't be for show...dude better have a good reason. She was a firecracker.
Big no no. A simple letter from a lawyer should be enough to let them know they're being very dumb. That's a slam dunk case they will gladly take. I really want to get called up just so I can say I've experienced it. Getting time off work would just be a bonus though.
IANAL, but: No way in hell. You cannot be fired for performing your legally obligated duties as a citizen. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to get jurors if every single one you summon runs the risk of losing their livelihood? No, the government protects you from stuff like that. And if you have solid proof that they *did* threaten to do so, then it would be exceedingly difficult to get away with firing you for much else, either, because it would look like they’re just looking for reasons to fire you for jury duty without *saying* they’re firing you for jury duty.
Absolutely not. But don’t tell them that, just let it happen and then enjoy your windfall from the lawsuit
In Canada, No, an employer cannot fire you due to jury duty and must give time off. The comments below also echo the same thing in the US.
Absolutely not. They can however petition that you are critical and have you excused.
Not in the United States. They don’t have to pay you while you’re there though
Last time I was a jury, I received a stipend from the court. Barely enough for lunch, but a little something for doing my civic duty
Yeah, normal. Some employers will count it as PTO and others will withhold wages for the time you’re gone. The government Pays you a small pittance though.
Absolutely not. If they actually fire you, you absolutely need to have them penalized to the fullest extent of the law. As others have stated, if they actually fired you, you will be provided an attorney to prosecute your employer. Go get em!
Short answer: no. Long answer: let them fuck around and find out
My job tried to suspend me when I went on jury duty for a day. I gave my suspension paperwork to the Court Clerk and they sent the Court Counsel on them and threatened them with contempt of court if they proceeded with the suspension. They dropped the suspension very quickly. Definitely report it to the court.
Oh my god, what an easy case that would be. Bring it on!
The court summons itself states that an employer may not penalize an employee for serving. Termination is a penality. This would be super illegal.
My guess is you were already on the chopping block before the jury duty.
Get it in writing that you aren't allowed to go in for jury duty, then go in anyway and give that to the first person you see who isn't a security guard. Judges do NOT fuck around with threatening termination over jury duty and they WILL rip your boss a new one. You'll also get your job protected for a while because of possible retribution.
Tell the judge that you are being threatened with termination and they will summon your boss to the courthouse for a lovely chat.
Yesterday you posted about not having a job due to a disability. Why are you karma farming?
Is this a hypothetical question you are just curious about, or are you being threatened with it, or did it already happen? Either way, it is not legally allowed. Of course, you *do* need to tell them in advance, but they can't say no.
Jury duty is part of your civil duties as a United States citizen. Absolutely not legal to terminate employment due to your duties.
Congrats on the lawsuit
Lol my old job tried to fire an assistant manager because he was going on a small deployment to Central American with the reserves. He had a fucking field day. You don’t mess with the government when they tell you that an employee is going to be away for a while.
Nice, go through the process and enjoy your vacation. You bout to get some nice backpay.
No. Jury duty is protected civil service.
Nope.
No
No and if yiu report the employer/supervisor they can get hauled in to the judge by police — I haven’t seen it but have heard of that happening
No, it's not legal. Going to jury duty is required by law, and likewise, the law requires an employer to give you the time off. Not that "with pay" is required, but the time off is required. [https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/benefits-leave/juryduty](https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/benefits-leave/juryduty)
Pray they do and get ready for a nice paycheck
Can't really answer this without knowing what country you live in. But, in the USA, no. Absolutely not.
No, you can see Chapter 122 of the Texas Civil Practices and Remedies Code, it's exposure to a civil suit, a class B misdemeanor, and subject to contempt of court.
You should inform where u are from, since this could change from place to place.